Abandoned on Everest

[the Talking Can]

http://godheadv.blogspot.com/2010/04/abandoned-on-everest.html

Fascinating blog post on what goes on in Everest's "dead zone" along with some unbelievable pictures.

NSFW warning...not because they're all graphic, but there are pictures of dead, frozen bodies.

You have to be crazy...

This morning, however, Green Boots had company. Sitting no more than two feet to the left of the corpse was a man who at first glance appeared to be dead. His gloved hands were on his knees, his hood and hat cast his face in shadow. The only feature visible was the man's severely frostbitten nose, already a greenish black hue. On closer inspection, the vapor from the man's breath could be seen rising.

What happened next entered the folklore of the highest mountain on earth. Every man interviewed gives a different story. What is certain is that every single one of the 40-odd climbers attempting the summit that day left the man in the cave, whose name was David Sharp, to freeze, either by choice, by ignorance, or by misjudging him as a corpse they already expected to see in that infamous cave....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/blog_everest2.jpg

[DaFace]

Yep. Everest is a mean, mean place. You have to be insane to even think of trying to summit it.

[Branden Albert's Huge Balls]

Jesus.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/beck-weathers01.jpg

[Donger]

You'd think that someone would put some funny signs on the corpses, or something.

[Donger]

Jesus.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/beck-weathers01.jpg

"Sorry, we already cast Two-Face."

[DMAC]

We should get a CP team going to scale it.

Let's meet in Springfield.

[Sofa King]

Maybe he was just a charger fan who is expecting a super bowl win.

[the Talking Can]

What I had never thought of, is that most of the dead people are still there....so you are walking through a graveyard, literally, on your way up. Some of those bodies just give me the heebiees...

[Semen]

That's going to leave a mark /cymbal crash

[mlyonsd]

We should get a CP team going to scale it.

Let's meet in Springfield.

I'm in. I'll carry the beer.

[Rain Man]

I'll wait till there's a tram.

[Pushead2]

We should get a CP team going to scale it.

Let's meet in Springfield.

I'm in....

[notorious]

I love to read about this stuff.


Rep.



Everest is bad, but K2 and a few others are much worse when it comes to death and injury.

[Jenson71]

"For years, any climber attempting the southern route could see her body, sitting, leaning against her backpack with her eyes open and brown hair blowing in the wind. Despite being so exposed and so visible along the well-trodden climbing route, rescue operations are virtually suicidal in the Death Zone. A Nepalese police inspector and a Sherpa who tried to recover Hannelore's body in 1984 both fell to their deaths."

This blog is quite a find.

[notorious]

What happened to the skin on some of the bodies? There really isn't anything to eat or dispose of the material. Did it just dry up and blow away?

[Reerun_KC]

What happened to the skin on some of the bodies? There really isn't anything to eat or dispose of the material. Did it just dry up and blow away?

Did I tell you I might be getting PIC type in the 400?

[HonestChieffan]

I know a lady whos Husband died on the way down after he summitted...amazing stories

[Donger]

Wow. This is one is apparently George Leigh Mallory. He's the one who answered "Because it's there" in response to the "Why do you climb mountains?" question. He died on Everest in 1924...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/dead-everest-2.jpg

[Reerun_KC]

That is just pure craziness!

[Donger]

Boy, this is cold...

In 2007, Ian Woodall, a British climber, returned to Everest to bury the bodies of three climbers he passed on his way to the summit. One of the climbers, a woman named Francys Arsentiev, was still alive when Woodall reached her during his initial ascent. Her first words to him were "don't leave me behind." The grim reality, though, is that Woodall could not have done anything for her without jeopardizing his own life or the lives of his team members. He was forced to leave her to perish alone.

[-King-]

So this guy was trying to jerk off huh? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/everest-corpse-1.jpg

[Donger]

So this guy was trying to jerk off huh? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/everest-corpse-1.jpg

LMAO

"I can finish! I can finish! I can fin...."

[Jenson71]

Boy, this is cold...

In 2007, Ian Woodall, a British climber, returned to Everest to bury the bodies of three climbers he passed on his way to the summit. One of the climbers, a woman named Francys Arsentiev, was still alive when Woodall reached her during his initial ascent. Her first words to him were "don't leave me behind." The grim reality, though, is that Woodall could not have done anything for her without jeopardizing his own life or the lives of his team members. He was forced to leave her to perish alone.

Do you think he should have hit her over the head with a pick or something like that?

[Silock]

If you enjoyed this story, watch:

Touching the Void

and Everest: Beyond the Limit (Seasons 1 and 2)

Great mountaineering/Everest documentaries.

[Donger]

Do you think he should have hit her over the head with a pick or something like that?

I don't know. I've never been in that situation, but I'm pretty sure that I would have to try to get her down.

[the Talking Can]

freezing to death is my worst way to imagine dying....i can barely even read descriptions of it....

[Stewie]

Wow. This is one is apparently George Leigh Mallory. He's the one who answered "Because it's there" in response to the "Why do you climb mountains?" question. He died on Everest in 1924...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/dead-everest-2.jpg

Yep, that is Mallory. There's a great hour-long documentary on the guys that specifically went looking for Mallory and Irvine. They knew the point that they were last seen and scoured the mountain and found Mallory by chance. They weren't sure it was him until they found a clothing tag with "Mallory" written on it.

They couldn't determine by any of the evidence if Mallory had actually made the summit. Some think he did, others think not.

[loochy]

That was a very interesting read. Thanks for posting. :thumb:

[Donger]

freezing to death is my worst way to imagine dying....i can't barely even read descriptions of it....

I've read that it's actually quite a decent way to go.

[notorious]

So this guy was trying to jerk off huh? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/everest-corpse-1.jpg

When you gotta FAP, you gotta FAP........

[the Talking Can]

I don't know. I've never been in that situation, but I'm pretty sure that I would have to try to get her down.


read the comments to the post....a long argument on that very point...

[notorious]

If you enjoyed this story, watch:

Touching the Void

and Everest: Beyond the Limit (Seasons 1 and 2)

Great mountaineering/Everest documentaries.

Everest Beyond the Limit is pretty good.


I don't like the guy from Cali. He is an egotistical douchewad.

[the Talking Can]

So this guy was trying to jerk off huh? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/supine/blogstuff/everest-corpse-1.jpg

dude is wearing socks


did someone steal his boots?

[Rain Man]

dude is wearing socks


did someone steal his boots?


I bet that's why he died. He probably forgot to bring boots.

[DMAC]

dude is wearing socks


did someone steal his boots?

There is some good gear on those mannequins.

Ebay....

[the Talking Can]

this note is from the comments:

Juan ‘Juanito’ Oiarzabal holds the world record in 8000ers summits (21 in total) and has experienced many rescues on very high altitude. He told ExplorersWeb about Everest, “That mountain turned into a circus years ago, and it's getting worse – I don’t have the slightest interest in going back there, ever. Moreover, I actually try to avoid reading on what’s going on there – I simply don’t care anymore.” And about David Sharp, “It’s a classic [on Everest] - someone is in trouble, and people pass by, not even taking a quick look at him.”

[JBucc]

Boy, this is cold...

In 2007, Ian Woodall, a British climber, returned to Everest to bury the bodies of three climbers he passed on his way to the summit. One of the climbers, a woman named Francys Arsentiev, was still alive when Woodall reached her during his initial ascent. Her first words to him were "don't leave me behind." The grim reality, though, is that Woodall could not have done anything for her without jeopardizing his own life or the lives of his team members. He was forced to leave her to perish alone.Well he did try to help her: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francys_Arsentiev)

On the morning of the 24th, two South African climbers, Ian Woodall and Cathy O'Dowd, and several more Uzbeks encountered Francys while on their way to the summit. She was found where she had been left the evening before. Sergei's ice axe and rope were identified nearby, but he was nowhere to be found. The South Africans called off their own attempt to reach the summit and tried to help her for more than an hour, but because of her poor condition, the perilous location and freezing weather, they were forced to abandon her and descend to camp.[3] She expired as they found her, lying on her side, still clipped onto the guide rope.

[Jenson71]

I bet that's why he died. He probably forgot to bring boots.

True story: I went to the Boundary Waters for a week, and I left my second pair of shoes in the car, so I went an entire week without getting my feet wet. That's never been done before in the Boundary Waters.

[Silock]

freezing to death is my worst way to imagine dying....i can barely even read descriptions of it....

Those people aren't freezing to death so much as they are dying from a lack of oxygen.

[Silock]

Everest Beyond the Limit is pretty good.


I don't like the guy from Cali. He is an egotistical douchewad.

Come on . . . Dane's a nice guy! ;)

[MIAdragon]

I don't know. I've never been in that situation, but I'm pretty sure that I would have to try to get her down.

Why cause more death trying to delay the inevitable. It sucks but what can you do.

[MIAdragon]

Id LOVE to attempt Everest.

[the Talking Can]

Those people aren't freezing to death so much as they are dying from a lack of oxygen.

that's true


it's the idea of losing sensation in your limbs that creeps me out

[notorious]

Those people aren't freezing to death so much as they are dying from a lack of oxygen.

Imagine getting light headed and euphoric, then passing out.


Dead




There are much worse ways to go.

[Donger]

Why cause more death trying to delay the inevitable. It sucks but what can you do.

Like I said, try to get her down.

[siberian khatru]

A river, a mountain to be crossed
The sunshine in mountains sometimes lost
Around the south side, so cold that we cried
Were we ever colder on that day, a million miles away
It seemed from all eternity

"Move forward" was my friend's only cry
In deeper to somewhere we could lie
And rest for the the day with cold in the way
Were we ever colder on that day a million miles away
It seemed from all eternity

The moments seemed lost in all the noise
A snow storm a stimulating voice
Of warmth of the sky of warmth when you die
Were we ever warmer on that day a million miles away
We seemed from all eternity

The sunshine in mountains sometimes lost
The river can disregard the cost
And melt in the sky the warmth when you die
Were we ever warmer on that day a million miles away
We seemed from all of eternity

[Silock]

Like I said, try to get her down.

That's FAR easier said than done. In several technical sections, there are ladders that must be scaled. How do you do that with someone that's unconscious, while everyone there is struggling with a lack of oxygen (and therefore, strength)? Not to mention it's not like there's a lot of room to maneuver, as most of the sections above 22,000 feet are single-file.

[Sofa King]

Those pictures are creepy. i couldnt imagine having places on mountains named after the dead people that are still sitting there, in plain view.

[Donger]

That's FAR easier said than done. In several technical sections, there are ladders that must be scaled. How do you do that with someone that's unconscious, while everyone there is struggling with a lack of oxygen (and therefore, strength)? Not to mention it's not like there's a lot of room to maneuver, as most of the sections above 22,000 feet are single-file.

They should make an emergency kit that has something like what the Mars Pathfinder had. Insert freezing person, inflate bag and push down mountain.

[Reerun_KC]

They should make an emergency kit that has something like what the Mars Pathfinder had. Insert freezing person, inflate bag and push down mountain.

I bet you could sell tickets on that ride...:thumb:

[Fish]

They should make an emergency kit that has something like what the Mars Pathfinder had. Insert freezing person, inflate bag and push down mountain.

LMAO..... brilliant... a self-inflating emergency Zorb. If you don't make it, you get an exciting ride 10,000 feet down the side of the mountain...

Better odds than sitting there freezing...

[Donger]

I don't understand the music, but check out 2:30 in to see what I'm referring to:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6ajsXzTFLYA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Cave Johnson]

They should make an emergency kit that has something like what the Mars Pathfinder had. Insert freezing person, inflate bag and push down mountain.

I'm sure that would be totally feasible to carry at 27K feet....

[Hydrae]

Interesting article. The comments were almost as interesting. Great post, thanks!

[mlyonsd]

That's FAR easier said than done. In several technical sections, there are ladders that must be scaled. How do you do that with someone that's unconscious, while everyone there is struggling with a lack of oxygen (and therefore, strength)? Not to mention it's not like there's a lot of room to maneuver, as most of the sections above 22,000 feet are single-file.

Someone should take a saw and leave it there. Everyone that passes a corpse should hack off a piece and bring it down with them.

[Silock]

They should make an emergency kit that has something like what the Mars Pathfinder had. Insert freezing person, inflate bag and push down mountain.

LOL

That would be a hell of a ride. It would be like a 20 mile ride, because you wouldn't stop until you got ALL the way down.

In all seriousness, though, I hate how all these "reports" on Everest make it seem like people are just walking by on a leisurely hike, watching other people die. IT's not like that. It's hard, serious shit. If rescuing someone were that easy, people would do it all the time. Most rescue attempts are abandoned, and it's not because people don't care about the dying. It's because it's just too hard. There are too many inexperienced climbers and expedition leaders up there on Everest.

I'd love to scale Everest one day. I won't, though, because in addition to having zero climbing experience, even if you do everything perfectly right, you can STILL DIE.

[Rain Man]

Id LOVE to attempt Everest.

I have zero interest in doing something like that. Zero. It doesn't sound fun at all, there's a chance you could die just because of bad luck, and it's become enough of a cliche that telling people you climbed Mt. Everest would probably garner no more than a shrug and a "that's cool" comment.

[Rain Man]

I don't understand the music, but check out 2:30 in to see what I'm referring to:


On a slightly different note, Mt. Everest is now a cliche, but imagine being at a party and telling people that you climbed a 50,000 foot mountain. ON MARS! That would buy serious credibility.

[Over-Head]

I have zero interest in doing something like that. Zero. It doesn't sound fun at all, there's a chance you could die just because of bad luck, .
That and jumping out of a perfectly good working airplane hoping a piece of silk is gonna save my ass from going THUMP!!

[Over-Head]

LOL

That would be a hell of a ride. It would be like a 20 mile ride, because you wouldn't stop until you got ALL the way down.

. :bong: need a test run volunteer :bong:

[Donger]

On a slightly different note, Mt. Everest is now a cliche, but imagine being at a party and telling people that you climbed a 50,000 foot mountain. ON MARS! That would buy serious credibility.

"I summited Olympus Mons, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.


and some really cool alien fossils."

[-King-]

I don't know. I've never been in that situation, but I'm pretty sure that I would have to try to get her down.

I've watched some documentaries on climbing everest, and that wouldn't be a good idea. Like Silock said, there are parts where you have to climb ladders and shit like that. Try doing that with someone near death attached to you. It would be impossible.

[notorious]

A person near death will likely take you with them in just about any situation.

[Hydrae]

That and jumping out of a perfectly good working airplane hoping a piece of silk is gonna save my ass from going THUMP!!

Now that was fun!

Climbing a mountain where there is not enough oxygen to sustain life, not so much.

[Baby Lee]

Krakauer 'Into Thin Air' 1997 harrowing shit. So visceral that the actual images pale in comparison.

[bowener]

Something I have learned from reading this thread and some stuff from the link provided:

Bring a fucking gun.

I'm not freezing to death, and if no one is going to help me, fuck it, I'm out *bang*.

Also, I suppose, you could be merciful and shoot other people in the head that are near death and have no hope as well.

[Over-Head]

I'll take the helicopoter ride up for my $10,000 :D

[Pants]

Something I have learned from reading this thread and some stuff from the link provided:

Bring a ****ing gun.

I'm not freezing to death, and if no one is going to help me, **** it, I'm out *bang*.

Also, I suppose, you could be merciful and shoot other people in the head that are near death and have no hope as well.

Freezing to death is one of the better ways to go. Eff shooting myself in the face, I'd rather die in a delirious euphoria.

[Bwana]

That and jumping out of a perfectly good working airplane hoping a piece of silk is gonna save my ass from going THUMP!!

Come on now! I'm going do some more jumps down in San Pedro next week. I'm trying to talk my wife into it as well, but she's having none of it.

[Over-Head]

Come on now! I'm going do some more jumps down in San Pedro next week. I'm trying to talk my wife into it as well, but she's having none of it. Yeah but I stutter when i'm excited,,,my luck i'd nail the ground going ....f f f f fourrr

[Bwana]

Yeah but I stutter when i'm excited,,,my luck i'd nail the ground going ....f f f f fourrr

Heh, it's not the long fall that will kill you. It's the sudden stop. :evil:

[TIED5573]

If you enjoyed this story, watch:

Touching the Void

and Everest: Beyond the Limit (Seasons 1 and 2)

Great mountaineering/Everest documentaries.

"Touching the Void" is one of my favorite movies. If you think you have had a bad day, just watch that movie and realize it could be worse. Rep.

[Over-Head]

Heh, it's not the long fall that will kill you. It's the sudden stop. :evil: Oh gee...I feel all better :spock:

[Fritz88]

Now climbing it is much easier than before. With mini camps set at several heights. Oxygen tanks in abundance. The ones who did it in the past are the ones with real balls.

[Miles]

Krakauer 'Into Thin Air' 1997 harrowing shit. So visceral that the actual images pale in comparison.

Highly recommend that one as well.

[Silock]

I'll take the helicopoter ride up for my $10,000 :D

Not sure if you'rer being serious, but the air is too thin for helicopters to fly up there. Otherwise, you'd have helicopter rescues of climbers.

[jAZ]

Not sure if you'rer being serious, but the air is too thin for helicopters to fly up there. Otherwise, you'd have helicopter rescues of climbers.

Didn't know that. Makes sense though.

[Miles]

Not sure if you'rer being serious, but the air is too thin for helicopters to fly up there. Otherwise, you'd have helicopter rescues of climbers.


I heard something about one landing/hovering there a while back and checked it out on google and it looks legit enough from 5 years ago. The highest rescue apparently is around 23k on another Himalayan mountain which is hardly close to the summit.

[Silock]

I heard something about one landing/hovering there a while back and checked it out on google and it looks legit enough from 5 years ago. The highest rescue apparently is around 23k on another Himalayan mountain which is hardly close to the summit.

Yeah, that's still quite a gap to the summit of Everest.

I suppose once more copters have the same power, we'll see less people dying up there.

[Bugeater]

Yeah, that's still quite a gap to the summit of Everest.

I suppose once more copters have the same power, we'll see less people dying up there.
Or maybe when morons stop going up there, we'll see less people dying up there.

[Silock]

Or maybe when morons stop going up there, we'll see less people dying up there.

I think the chance of Xenu coming to take us all away tomorrow is higher.

[googlegoogle]

bury them.

[Miles]

bury them.

How?

[MagicHef]

There's a project in the works called the Alpine Wasp, specifically for Everest rescues. It's an unmanned helicopter that can go over 30,000 feet. Although, all the news about that I can find is from 2007, so maybe it ended up not working.

[no love]

... and it's a pretty interesting blog. The one about the jelly fish... makes me think twice about...

[Joe Seahawk]

Krakaurs "Into thin air: really got me mesmerized by the stories, i have read several other books including "the climb" by Anatoli boukreev and a couple others by Brashears and viesturs. One amazing thing is Ed Viesturs (arguably the most accomplished high altitude mountaineer in history) sits 3 rows behind me at Seahawks games. First time I saw him i couldn''t help but tell him how amazed and impressed i was with his feats. He seemed suprised to be recognized.. pretty cool

This whole everest thing amazes me for some reason..

[Silock]

One amazing thing is Ed Viesturs (arguably the most accomplished high altitude mountaineer in history)

Reinhold Messner might have an argument with that.

BTW, I'm not arguing with that. Just saying the argument is there to be made.

[Miles]

Krakaurs "Into thin air: really got me mesmerized by the stories, i have read several other books including "the climb" by Anatoli boukreev and a couple others by Brashears and viesturs. One amazing thing is Ed Viesturs (arguably the most accomplished high altitude mountaineer in history) sits 3 rows behind me at Seahawks games. First time I saw him i couldn''t help but tell him how amazed and impressed i was with his feats. He seemed suprised to be recognized.. pretty cool

This whole everest thing amazes me for some reason..

Pretty much here sans the great Ed Viesturs anecdote. I have a Brashears book sitting on my bookshelf that I have been intending to read and read the Krackaur ones a while back. Any particular ones you can recommend I read first?

[Joe Seahawk]

Pretty much here sans the great Ed Viesturs anecdote. I have a Brashears book sitting on my bookshelf that I have been intending to read and read the Krackaur ones a while back. Any particular ones you can recommend I read first?

Have you read boukreev "the Climb"? It's the 96 debacle from anotoli's viewpoint. Pretty interesting. " No shortcuts to the top" by viesturs is also pretty fascinating, that dude came close to dying several times.

[Joe Seahawk]

Reinhold Messner might have an argument with that.

BTW, I'm not arguing with that. Just saying the argument is there to be made.

No doubt.. I'm kind of a homer...

[Miles]

Have you read boukreev "the Climb"? It's the 96 debacle from anotoli's viewpoint. Pretty interesting. " No shortcuts to the top" by viesturs is also pretty fascinating, that dude came close to dying several times.

Thanks. I have been meaning to read The Climb for a while but kind of forgot about it. Will also pick up the Ed Viesturs book. I have also been meaning to read more about K2 which seems much more technical than Everest and I recall something similar to the Everest debacle happening in the 80's.

[Hog Farmer]

I've read that it's actually quite a decent way to go.


Yep. 8 out of 10 surveyed gave it a thumbs up. :thumb:

[Joe Seahawk]

Thanks. I have been meaning to read The Climb for a while but kind of forgot about it. Will also pick up the Ed Viesturs book. I have also been meaning to read more about K2 which seems much more technical than Everest and I recall something similar to the Everest debacle happening in the 80's.

This is a pretty interesting interview with Ed and K2. He says he got away with a really dumb decision. The reason he's still alive is because he rarely did stuff like this.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/thewrongstuff/archive/2010/06/14/into-thin-error-mountaineer-ed-viesturs-on-making-mistakes.aspx

[Groves]

Or maybe when morons stop going up there, we'll see less people dying leaving humans to die while they climb the summit to stroke their own ego up there.

Fixed.

[ChiTown]

Krakauer 'Into Thin Air' 1997 harrowing shit. So visceral that the actual images pale in comparison.

I read that years ago. Really a fantastic read.

[Pants]

Dang, did you guys read about the Irukandji Syndrome? Sounds like probably the worst thing a human being can experience. /shudder

[Brock]

bury them.

Go ahead, nobody's stopping you.

[Sofa King]

http://www.spike.com/video/freeze-died/2978002


This is worth a watch.

[Spicy McHaggis]

TyrM7GxyzGg

[Iowanian]

I wonder how many hikers have tried the jerky?

STEP INTO A SLIM JIM!

[DaFace]

bury them.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.... Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[DMAC]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.... Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

ROFL

My wife is sleeping around

[-King-]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard.... Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


ROFLROFL

[-King-]

http://www.spike.com/video/freeze-died/2978002


This is worth a watch.


:Lin: @ When they showed the toes.

But I'd think that freezing in a meat freezer is worse than freezing on Everest. It has to be colder there than on the mountain.

[Silock]

Fixed.

Can you explain exactly how you'd get someone down?

[Groves]

Can you explain exactly how you'd get someone down?

I understand that the margins for life in that environment are slim even when all goes well.

I understand that to undertake a rescue put people in jeopardy and most definitely eliminates your ability to reach the summit.

I understand that people have spent many years of training and millions of dollars to position themselves to do what many people aspire to do. Sponsorships. Equipment. Training. Permits, etc.

I understand.

It's a living person, folks. Have you no soul?

The avalanche of justifications always begins with questions like, "Can you explain exactly how you'd get someone down?"

Everyone who shoots for the summit is aiming to accomplish what is all but impossible. Everyone accepts death as a potential outcome, do they not?

So, if they've already accepted a death-sized risk, now all they're saying by passing up the living is that reaching the top of some mountain is more important than saving a living person. It's not even worth trying, they're essentially saying.

It's not like the cure to cancer is at the top. It's not like the solution to world peace is attainable if only you get to the top of everest.

People want the ego boost that reaching the summit gives them, without all that nastiness of kindness getting in the way.

I hope they go through life haunted by the horrible trade-off they made.

I'm generalizing, surely. I'm no expert, double surely.

All the justifications get chucked right quick if it's your wife or child up there (guys with bad wives insert joke here, of course). They get chucked cause they were made of tissue paper, and if enough climbers talk about it like it's justifiable, then we get a trail littered with bodies, which it is.

Maybe I'm just ticked because Burger King pulled their Jack-in-the-Box-esque tacos from the menu after only a 6month trial run. That could very well be. I think it sulleys the whole accomplishment.

[Silock]

Of course people up there have a soul. However, beyond a certain point, one can really only be responsible for themselves. It is physically impossible to rescue someone at those altitudes that can't move. It's not about the sponsorships and training and equipment.

What would you have them do? Again, you offer all these nice platitudes, but no real solutions. That's not a knock on you; it's just the way all of these things go.

There's a reason that expeditions full of experienced climbers and sherpas that are created specifically for rescue are abandoned. It's TOO HARD, and once you get to a certain point, you're endangering even more lives just to attempt to save one (or get a body). If my wife were stuck up there, I wouldn't be able to rescue her. I'd die trying, but I know ahead of time that it's a fruitless effort and I WILL die. Would I die for some random stranger? Sure, but not if we're both going to die. If he's a goner, then fuck that -- I'm getting out. There is ZERO reason for us to both die, and that's the exact reason people get left up there. Trying to rescue someone is only going to kill you and you'll both die.

So, again, how are you going to get them down? It's not a question of morality. It's a question of logistics.

[Brock]

I understand.

It's a living person, folks. Have you no soul?

The avalanche of justifications always begins with questions like, "Can you explain exactly how you'd get someone down?"

Everyone who shoots for the summit is aiming to accomplish what is all but impossible. Everyone accepts death as a potential outcome, do they not?


You try hauling anyone but yourself off that mountain, death isn't going to be a possibility, it's a certainty.

[-King-]

So...because you have a soul you should risk your life 20,000+ feet up in -33 degree temperatures to save someone who is likely going to die anyway?


Um...no.

[DMAC]

You try hauling anyone but yourself off that mountain, death isn't going to be a possibility, it's a certainty.

Yeah, only if you are a pussy.

[Pants]

Yeah, only if you are a pussy.

LMAO

[DaFace]

I understand that the margins for life in that environment are slim even when all goes well.

I understand that to undertake a rescue put people in jeopardy and most definitely eliminates your ability to reach the summit.

I understand that people have spent many years of training and millions of dollars to position themselves to do what many people aspire to do. Sponsorships. Equipment. Training. Permits, etc.

I understand.

It's a living person, folks. Have you no soul?

The avalanche of justifications always begins with questions like, "Can you explain exactly how you'd get someone down?"

Everyone who shoots for the summit is aiming to accomplish what is all but impossible. Everyone accepts death as a potential outcome, do they not?

So, if they've already accepted a death-sized risk, now all they're saying by passing up the living is that reaching the top of some mountain is more important than saving a living person. It's not even worth trying, they're essentially saying.

It's not like the cure to cancer is at the top. It's not like the solution to world peace is attainable if only you get to the top of everest.

People want the ego boost that reaching the summit gives them, without all that nastiness of kindness getting in the way.

I hope they go through life haunted by the horrible trade-off they made.

I'm generalizing, surely. I'm no expert, double surely.

All the justifications get chucked right quick if it's your wife or child up there (guys with bad wives insert joke here, of course). They get chucked cause they were made of tissue paper, and if enough climbers talk about it like it's justifiable, then we get a trail littered with bodies, which it is.

Maybe I'm just ticked because Burger King pulled their Jack-in-the-Box-esque tacos from the menu after only a 6month trial run. That could very well be. I think it sulleys the whole accomplishment.

It's a nice dream. The reality, unfortunately, is that if you try and help someone up there, you die. Period.

[DMAC]

Okay, okay! You die if you try to help people on Mt Everest. Good lord people, none of us are fucking going there...shit.

[Bump]

so would those people be candidates for a Darwin award?

[DJ's left nut]

Can you explain exactly how you'd get someone down?

No.

There, much shorter this way.

[Chiefnj2]

It's a living person, folks. Have you no soul?



It's a bunch of extremely wealthy people who use their money to hire guides and sherpas to lug all of their crap up and down a mountain and lead them on a line, make all of the decisions for them, care for them, and take their photo at the top so they can say "I did it."

[Rain Man]

I'm going to offer a deal to Groves and DMAC. If you ever get stuck on Mt. Everest, send me a PM and I'll come get you. If I ever get stuck on Mt. Everest, you do the same. And screw these other guys.

Deal?

[Otter]

I can think of about 999,999 places I'd rather hike that have a good steak, garlic salad and big glass of red wine at the destination.

[DMAC]

I'm going to offer a deal to Groves and DMAC. If you ever get stuck on Mt. Everest, send me a PM and I'll come get you. If I ever get stuck on Mt. Everest, you do the same. And screw these other guys.

Deal?

If Groves is going, i AINT going. Guys a prick.

[raybec 4]

If Groves is going, i AINT going. Guys a prick.

But he will get you down the mountain because he has a soul

[Superturtle]

Careful of gingers. Word on the street is they have no soul.

[DJ's left nut]

But he will get you down the mountain because he has a soul

A good friend bails you out of jail the next morning after you've had too much to drink.

Your best friend dies alongside you after futiley attempting to lug 225 lbs of dead weight down ladders and rope pullies.

I think I read that in a bathroom stall somewhere.

[alnorth]

People want the ego boost that reaching the summit gives them, without all that nastiness of kindness getting in the way.

I hope they go through life haunted by the horrible trade-off they made.

Your long rambling attempt to explain what you meant does not change the fact that your opinion was really dumb.

You apparently have this presumption that climbing everest is this foolishly reckless form of russian roulette, as if you are saying "well what the hell you fool, you already threw your own life away by climbing the mountain, so you might as well try to rescue that person and figure out a way to save both your own life and the other person"

Your presumption is wrong. Yes, unprepared people are suicidal for trying, but climbers who have a lot of experience, training, and preparation in good weather can climb this mountain relatively safely. The only problem is they can not make a single mistake. (and sometimes "making a mistake" means continuing up when you obviously have to give up due to weather or equipment problems and you need to start going back down) If they do everything correctly, careful every step of the way, they have an extremely good chance of making it just fine. The most skilled and most careful climbers have climbed this and similar mountains a dozen or more times.

On other lesser mountains, making a mistake with equipment, movements, etc could result in death or could result in injury, or could result in a frightening close call. On everest near the top, a mistake basically means you die, 99%+.

Trying to get someone, close to the very top, who is severely hurt and cant do much climbing anymore, qualifies as a fatal mistake. Climbing everest is not a foolish suicide mission if done correctly, and no one should be ashamed or haunted for not needlessly throwing their own life away in a doomed attempt to save someone else who cant be saved.

[CHENZ A!]

This is a pretty interesting interview with Ed and K2. He says he got away with a really dumb decision. The reason he's still alive is because he rarely did stuff like this.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/thewrongstuff/archive/2010/06/14/into-thin-error-mountaineer-ed-viesturs-on-making-mistakes.aspx

This blog about "wrongness" is so interesting it deserves it's own thread. If you all have time I recommend the interviews with Bourdain, Posnanski, and Dershowitz as well. Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing man.
Posted via Mobile Device

[notorious]

"Speaking of conservative decisions, I heard you once turned around when you were 300 feet from the summit of Mount Everest. Three hundred feet out of, what, 29,029?

Yeah. That was my first trip to Everest, and I was like—daaaaaaahhh! You know, there's the top, I could see the top, 300 feet away. But it was the obvious decision; all the indications were that we needed to turn around, and I just realized that I was going to have to go home and come back another year. And even though it was slightly frustrating, I wasn't disappointed. If I have to turn around because of conditions beyond my control, as long as I haven't given up physically or mentally, I don't call those failures. I can live with those."



It would take amazing personal strength to turn around 300 feet from the summit. No wonder that guys has scaled all of the 8000'ers.

[Pants]

Your long rambling attempt to explain what you meant does not change the fact that your opinion was really dumb.

You apparently have this presumption that climbing everest is this foolishly reckless form of russian roulette, as if you are saying "well what the hell you fool, you already threw your own life away by climbing the mountain, so you might as well try to rescue that person and figure out a way to save both your own life and the other person"

Your presumption is wrong. Yes, unprepared people are suicidal for trying, but climbers who have a lot of experience, training, and preparation in good weather can climb this mountain relatively safely. The only problem is they can not make a single mistake. If they do everything correctly, careful every step of the way, they have an extremely good chance of making it just fine. On other mountains, making a mistake with equipment, movements, etc could result in death or could result in injury, or could result in a frightening close call. On everest near the top, a mistake basically means you die, 99%+.

Trying to get someone, close to the very top, who is severely hurt and cant do much climbing anymore, qualifies as a fatal mistake. Climbing everest is not a foolish suicide mission if done correctly, and no one should be ashamed or haunted for not needlessly throwing their own life away in a doomed attempt to save someone else who cant be saved.

Jomolungma is for pussies. Hardcore dudes go up K2.

[Groves]

If Groves is going, i AINT going. Guys a prick.

Are you calling my wife a whore!? Say that to my f....

Sorry, I spaced out there.

I have nothin against DMAC or Silock or anything. Heck, I don't even know anyone that has climbed everest and did or did not stop to help someone. We're all talking theory here, and I do find it interesting.

There are TONS of situations where you have to leave a guy behind. PLENTY of scenarios where to save the maximum amount of people you need to bring or allow harm to a few. I get that. Nothing wrong with that. It's the way the world is. Soul or no soul.

The facts of the matter are that not everyone who is left behind is left for the same reasons, with the same likelihood of death-for-all should a rescue be attempted.

Expeditions continue all the time when a portion, sometimes a major portion, of a crew is wiped out.

Sometimes a person could actually be rescued if a team aborts and spends their time/energy/oxygen/light/food on a rescue instead of continuing forward to the summit.

I find it interesting to sort out when we would/wouldn't make that call. I think we all find it interesting, that's why we're jabbin about it.

I'm rather new to the whole "meet in real life to beat each other up" protocol, so if I'm not following the standard progression or I'm missing a step, you'll have to let me know.

My family was more of an "insults at 10 paces" type clan. Then bring the heat after that.

Lest you think I'm high and mighty, I've had too much soulless activity in my own life. My own actions and lack of actions. I don't like it, and I don't like reading about it.

I guess the climb must always go on. Or must it?

[Sofa King]

I scaled Mount Olympus.

[bsp4444]

I've never viewed a blog, I guess. I can't seem to follow this one. I've signed up to google, but all I see is a bird sitting over a wall.

[Rain Man]

If Groves is going, i AINT going. Guys a prick.

I don't care if you pull him down. I want you to pull me down.

[Donger]

I didn't mean to make such a mess. Sorry.

[CHENZ A!]

I've never viewed a blog, I guess. I can't seem to follow this one. I've signed up to google, but all I see is a bird sitting over a wall.

If this is true, just type in "naked women" in google, then hit enter. YOUR MIND WILL BE BLOWN
Posted via Mobile Device

[Groves]

Climbing everest is not a foolish suicide mission if done correctly, and no one should be ashamed or haunted for not needlessly throwing their own life away in a doomed attempt to save someone else who cant be saved.

I very much agree.

I think my long rambling attempt at an explanation fell short.

I'm not saying that everyone who's had to let someone die is soulless or should be haunted or subjected to Pauly Shore movies or anything like that.

Anyone who's been in tight spots themselves, or watched "Touching the Void" knows that the decision to move on and leave someone is never light. It's not always an easy call, probably never.

I think it's naive to believe that men can never be swayed by ego or pride into making bad decisions. Decisions to pass by when they could aid or save. Those are the men that should be haunted, not well meaning folks who have done all they reasonably could.

[DJ's left nut]

I've never viewed a blog, I guess. I can't seem to follow this one. I've signed up to google, but all I see is a bird sitting over a wall.

Mine does that at work. I dunno if its a browser setting or what, I didn't really care. I downloaded Firefox and it read fine through that.

Good luck.

[frazod]

I love this place. There literally isn't anything you idiots won't argue about. LMAO

[DMAC]

I've never viewed a blog, I guess. I can't seem to follow this one. I've signed up to google, but all I see is a bird sitting over a wall.

I found a way around that. Takes interweb injinooity.

[Sofa King]

I've never viewed a blog, I guess. I can't seem to follow this one. I've signed up to google, but all I see is a bird sitting over a wall.

i had that happen too with IE.

i switch over to Chrome and it worked fine.

[Fish]

So, if they've already accepted a death-sized risk, now all they're saying by passing up the living is that reaching the top of some mountain is more important than saving a living person. It's not even worth trying, they're essentially saying.

All you'd have to do is throw that person on your back, while you yourself are fighting hallucination and extreme fatigue from lack of oxygen, in a -40° environment which can see wind guts over 100mph, all while traversing terrain just like this:

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1111/everest22980717.jpg

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/2766/pre27832887318.jpg

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/1240/everestgroup2906565.jpg

[Rain Man]

I love this place. There literally isn't anything you idiots won't argue about. LMAO

Yes, there is.

[DMAC]

Yes, there is.

No, there isn't.

[Rain Man]

If this is true, just type in "naked women" in google, then hit enter. YOUR MIND WILL BE BLOWN
Posted via Mobile Device


OH MY GOD! DO OTHER PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THIS?!?!

REP! REP COMING YOUR WAY!

[notorious]

I love this place. There literally isn't anything you idiots won't argue about. LMAO

Water is wet......



Bring it on!

[DaFace]

I love this place. There literally isn't anything you idiots won't argue about. LMAO

I actually think this is an interesting discussion, moreso than an "argument." I might have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone called a stupid motherfucker or giant raging douchenozzle for their opinions in this thread.

[DMAC]

I actually think this is an interesting discussion, moreso than an "argument." I might have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone called a stupid motherfucker or giant raging douchenozzle for their opinions in this thread.

I actually think it's an argument, you....giant...raging...douchenozzle?

[Donger]

Water is wet......



Bring it on!

Not if it's frozen, it isn't.

[alnorth]

Yes, there is.

Trying to think of a topic that would not generate an argument. All I could come up with after a minute or two is: "Steak is yummy". I assume we do not have a vegetarian who is horrified at the thought of beef on this board.

[Rain Man]

Trying to think of a topic that would not generate an argument. All I could come up with after a minute or two is: "Steak is yummy". I assume we do not have a vegetarian who is horrified at the thought of beef on this board.

I think the closest we've ever come from a polling standpoint is whether guys should shave their legs or not. But it still wasn't unanimous.

[alnorth]

I think the closest we've ever come from a polling standpoint is whether guys should shave their legs or not. But it still wasn't unanimous.

well, some joker will always keep a poll from being 100% just to be a goof, but did someone seriously make an argument that men should shave their legs? (aside from some weird competitive reason where it actually is required, maybe)

[DMAC]

well, some joker will always keep a poll from being 100% just to be a goof, but did someone seriously make an argument that men should shave their legs? (aside from some weird competitive reason where it actually is required, maybe)

I think the poll would have been a bit different if there was a Wahl (trimmer) option.

Just sayin...

[DeezNutz]

Can you explain exactly how you'd get someone down?

Chevy Chase sledding style, Christmas Vacation.

[Silock]

I think it's naive to believe that men can never be swayed by ego or pride into making bad decisions. Decisions to pass by when they could aid or save. Those are the men that should be haunted, not well meaning folks who have done all they reasonably could.

That I can agree with, for the most part. But once you get above "the death zone," there is very, very little you can actually do.

In season 1 of Expedition Everest, one of the climbers insisted on continuing to climb up when it was obvious to everyone else that he couldn't. There was literally nothing they could do to stop him. All they could do was talk to him, because picking him up from his sitting position and helping him back down just wasn't an option, even for the master sherpas. Luckily for him, he still had enough energy and sense to turn around.

[Rain Man]

well, some joker will always keep a poll from being 100% just to be a goof, but did someone seriously make an argument that men should shave their legs? (aside from some weird competitive reason where it actually is required, maybe)


I don't remember who voted for it, but I think it was Buck, who said it was an accident, and the poll author. I could be wrong on that, though.

[-King-]

http://www.summitclimb.com/new/images/gallery/923manning6.jpg

http://www.tomclowes.com/images/blog_3.jpg

http://www.k2news.com/Tashitenzing/F1000075.JPG


You still think that you have to help someone Groves?

[Rain Man]

It's ridiculous that they have to do stuff like that. Someone should build a road up there.

[Bugeater]

Where the hell did they get the extension ladders? Is there a Home Depot on Mt Everest?

[siberian khatru]

http://www.summitclimb.com/new/images/gallery/923manning6.jpg

http://www.tomclowes.com/images/blog_3.jpg

http://www.k2news.com/Tashitenzing/F1000075.JPG




Mmmyeah, I don't think that's for me.

[Bugeater]

Wait a minute, those aren't extension ladders at all, they are individual ladder sections roped together. Fuck that shit.

[Rain Man]

I wonder if they geocache up there. Maybe the ladders were in a geocache.

"Ooh, look. Some baseball cards and a ring and - hey, an extension ladder! We can use that!"

[AustinChief]

It seems to me... we have suits that allow us to walk safely and somewhat comfortably.. in SPACE.. yet we can't make a suit that would protect a climber.

The fact is, we probably can and these climbers are mostly morons.

On another note, the minute a Frenchman landed a helicopter on the summit... was the minute I stopped being impressed with the whole endeavor...

[AustinChief]

If I were a billionaire.. . I would pay for an expedition to go to the summit and secure a GIANT cable so that old people and bratty kids could ride a gondola up to the top and wave at the idiots climbing on the way...

DisneyEverest!

[alnorth]

It seems to me... we have suits that allow us to walk safely and somewhat comfortably.. in SPACE.. yet we can't make a suit that would protect a climber.

The fact is, we probably can and these climbers are mostly morons.

What kind of suit protects you from 3,000 foot falls, -50 or worse temps, provides supplemental oxygen, all while not inhibiting your ability to climb?

I want one of those, that sounds like a badass suit.

[Rain Man]

If I were a billionaire.. . I would pay for an expedition to go to the summit and secure a GIANT cable so that old people and bratty kids could ride a gondola up to the top and wave at the idiots climbing on the way...

DisneyEverest!


I bet you could charge like a hundred bucks or something and make money on it. Especially if you stopped for photos in the Death Zone.

[jynni]

What kind of suit protects you from 3,000 foot falls, -50 or worse temps, provides supplemental oxygen, all while not inhibiting your ability to climb?

I want one of those, that sounds like a badass suit.

Yeah - don't the suits they use for space walks and stuff weigh like 300 lbs?

[AustinChief]

What kind of suit protects you from 3,000 foot falls, -50 or worse temps, provides supplemental oxygen, all while not inhibiting your ability to climb?

I want one of those, that sounds like a badass suit.

ok, the FALL part is a given... but a suit that provides temperature control, oxygen and free movement.. can NOT be too hard to manufacture...

We made frigging SPACE SUITS over 50 years ago that allowed us to walk on the friggin moon... come on man...

[the Talking Can]

I've never viewed a blog, I guess. I can't seem to follow this one. I've signed up to google, but all I see is a bird sitting over a wall.


is this the best post in the history of the intertubes?

[AustinChief]

Yeah - don't the suits they use for space walks and stuff weigh like 300 lbs?

Depends on the suit.. I am not proposing people wear a full EVA suit.. I am suggesting that we have the technology to overcome all the hazards of the climb except the falling into a giant pit part...

Cold and lack of oxygen should NEVER be an issue with modern tech.

Again, if this were 1911 I would be impressed .. as it stands, in 2011, it falls under the realm of stupid crap people do to achieve a false sense of self worth.

I'm equally impressed with Daniel Baraniuk...

[DaFace]

Depends on the suit.. I am not proposing people wear a full EVA suit.. I am suggesting that we have the technology to overcome all the hazards of the climb except the falling into a giant pit part...

Cold and lack of oxygen should NEVER be an issue with modern tech.

Again, if this were 1911 I would be impressed .. as it stands, in 2011, it falls under the realm of stupid crap people do to achieve a false sense of self worth.

I'm equally impressed with Daniel Baraniuk...

That would kind of defeat the purpose. Why don't olympic sprinters drive Segways?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Rain Man]

That would kind of defeat the purpose. Why don't olympic sprinters drive Segways?
Posted via Mobile Device


I wonder where the line is, though. Compared to the earlier climbers, the modern guys have no problem taking light oxygen containers and using advanced heat-retaining materials. If they're taking advantage of technology, why would an Iron Man suit be over the line?

[AustinChief]

That would kind of defeat the purpose. Why don't olympic sprinters drive Segways?
Posted via Mobile Device

Olympic Sprinters are competing against each other and world records...

If people want to RACE to the top of Everest.. more power to them... just don't expect me to care... oh yeah, I also don't follow Olympic sprinting.. do you? does ANYONE?

So what are the rules? You can't wear a suit that provides temperature control? no oxygen? No clothes at all? no clothes manufactured after 1950? Only ropes hand woven in Paraguay? It's all so fucking silly and arbitrary...

[Donger]

Yeah - don't the suits they use for space walks and stuff weigh like 300 lbs?

Where?

[AustinChief]

I wonder where the line is, though. Compared to the earlier climbers, the modern guys have no problem taking light oxygen containers and using advanced heat-retaining materials. If they're taking advantage of technology, why would an Iron Man suit be over the line?

It just reminds me of a giant game of Calvinball...

[Donger]

That would kind of defeat the purpose. Why don't olympic sprinters drive Segways?
Posted via Mobile Device

Unless they are going up naked (which would be cool), I don't see why wearing super warm protective clothing is cheating. I can understand the not using supplemental oxygen argument more (but not much).

[AustinChief]

Where?

haha, good point... I assume he means their weight at sea level... but I think we could strip out a good deal of weight since we don't need a layer for micrometeoroid protection, nor most of the communications equipment, nor does it have to be entirely self contained.. etc etc

[Pants]

Olympic Sprinters are competing against each other and world records...

If people want to RACE to the top of Everest.. more power to them... just don't expect me to care... oh yeah, I also don't follow Olympic sprinting.. do you? does ANYONE?

So what are the rules? You can't wear a suit that provides temperature control? no oxygen? No clothes at all? no clothes manufactured after 1950? Only ropes hand woven in Paraguay? It's all so ****ing silly and arbitrary...

I don't know, it's pretty amazing to me that a human being can cover 10 steps (average person) in less than a second. HOW DOES ONE COVER 10 METERS IN UNDER ONE SECOND? It's mind-blowing stuff, man.

[AustinChief]

I don't know, it's pretty amazing to me that a human being can cover 10 steps (average person) in less than a second. How DO YOU COVER 10 meters in under a second? It's mind-blowing stuff, man.

Ok, without using Google.. name the top 5 Olympic sprinters in the world right now?

It's interesting in a .. "wow that's kinda neat" then I never think about it again way... let's not pretend you FOLLOW it... anyway.. we're getting off topic...

[Donger]

I don't know, it's pretty amazing to me that a human being can cover 10 steps (average person) in less than a second. HOW DOES ONE COVER 10 METERS IN UNDER ONE SECOND? It's mind-blowing stuff, man.

By running really fast?

[Pants]

Ok, without using Google.. name the top 5 Olympic sprinters in the world right now?

It's interesting in a .. "wow that's kinda neat" then I never think about it again way... let's not pretend you FOLLOW it... anyway.. we're getting off topic...

I can name 5 I know, but I don't know if they're necessarily in the top 5...

Usain Bolt
Tyson Gay
Justin Gatlin
Maurice Green
Asafa Powell

But you're right I don't follow it. I obviously watch the sprints during the Olympics and I try to check on the WC results.

[Rain Man]

It just reminds me of a giant game of Calvinball...


You can use the suit to climb up Everest, but if you use it you have to sing the National Anthem next to every dead body you see in the Dead Zone, and you can only use ladders across chasms between the hours of 10 and 2.

So you can use suits, but you just have to follow the rules.

[Rain Man]

By running really fast?

I don't watch sprinting, but I always assumed that they have some kind of suit on. Or they're that amputee guy and they've got those big springy leg replacements.

[alnorth]

Olympic Sprinters are competing against each other and world records...

If people want to RACE to the top of Everest.. more power to them... just don't expect me to care... oh yeah, I also don't follow Olympic sprinting.. do you? does ANYONE?

So what are the rules? You can't wear a suit that provides temperature control? no oxygen? No clothes at all? no clothes manufactured after 1950? Only ropes hand woven in Paraguay? It's all so ****ing silly and arbitrary...

the difference is pretty simple. Yes, we have had advances in oxygen supplements and thermal clothing. Fine, so what. There is a seperate (very small) list maintained of people who ascended without oxygen help. Temperature is not the primary obstacle, and is still very difficult to deal with, so that doesn't really matter as much.

Climbing Everest should be respected because it is still often fatal, even today. It is still often fatal because despite all the advances, it still requires that you be in really good shape, and not make a major mistake, with a major mistake being very easy with a few seconds of carelessness, and the penalty of a major mistake being death.

I don't think anyone is suggesting we view these people with the same kind of awe as climbers from the 30's and 40's, but it is still incredibly dangerous and very impressive.

Old-school football players who wore leather helmets were arguably tougher and had to deal with more pain when playing, but that doesn't stop us from respecting the highly-protected athletes we have today.

[Rain Man]

There was some post on either that blog or another one that it linked to that said that the death rate on Everest is 6 percent, but that it's 40 percent on Annapurna.

Now, I wouldn't want to roll the dice on 6 percent, but 40 percent? Is that really true? 40 percent? And I'd wager that all 100 percent thought they were well trained and well prepared. There's no way on earth I'd accept a 40 percent risk of dying.

[alnorth]

Ok, without using Google.. name the top 5 Olympic sprinters in the world right now?

It's interesting in a .. "wow that's kinda neat" then I never think about it again way... let's not pretend you FOLLOW it... anyway.. we're getting off topic...

Name the top 5 NFL running backs in the world today. Those guys also didn't have to deal with the inferior protective equipment that runnings backs had to deal with a generation or so ago, but that doesn't (and shouldn't) bother anyone.

Popularity shouldn't be relevant.

[Hydrae]

There was some post on either that blog or another one that it linked to that said that the death rate on Everest is 6 percent, but that it's 40 percent on Annapurna.

Now, I wouldn't want to roll the dice on 6 percent, but 40 percent? Is that really true? 40 percent? And I'd wager that all 100 percent thought they were well trained and well prepared. There's no way on earth I'd accept a 40 percent risk of dying.

Certainly not to climb a mountain.

"Because it is there."

Yeah, there are a lot of other things "there." I think I will leave the big, deadly mountain alone for now. Thanks anyway.

[alnorth]

There was some post on either that blog or another one that it linked to that said that the death rate on Everest is 6 percent, but that it's 40 percent on Annapurna.

Now, I wouldn't want to roll the dice on 6 percent, but 40 percent? Is that really true? 40 percent? And I'd wager that all 100 percent thought they were well trained and well prepared. There's no way on earth I'd accept a 40 percent risk of dying.

Just for fun, I grabbed my TI calculator and used the random number generator. 0.079060....

So, I would have just barely survived Everest, but I would have suffered a horrible death on Annapurna, whatever the hell that is.

[Rain Man]

Wow. Annapurna is 40 percent. Amazing.

http://gearjunkie.com/worlds-10-most-dangerous-mountains

I like the mountain below it, Nanga Parbat. The first 31 people who attempted it died in the process.

Here's another list that's slightly different, but also interesting: http://matadornetwork.com/trips/11-most-dangerous-mountains-in-the-world-for-climbers

Here's an interesting blog post on Annapurna: http://blog.stadum.com/2007/02/annapurna-most-dangerous-mountain.html

[Rain Man]

Just for fun, I grabbed my TI calculator and used the random number generator. 0.079060....

So, I would have just barely survived Everest, but I would have suffered a horrible death on Annapurna, whatever the hell that is.

Now try with Annapurna at 41 percent. Yeesh.

[Simplex3]

Wow. Annapurna is 40 percent. Amazing.

http://gearjunkie.com/worlds-10-most-dangerous-mountains

I like the mountain below it, Nanga Parbat. The first 31 people who attempted it died in the process.

Here's another list that's slightly different, but also interesting: http://matadornetwork.com/trips/11-most-dangerous-mountains-in-the-world-for-climbers

Here's an interesting blog post on Annapurna: http://blog.stadum.com/2007/02/annapurna-most-dangerous-mountain.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-thousander

That one has the death rates before 1990 and since. 3 of them have actually gotten *more* dangerous.

[Rain Man]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-thousander

That one has the death rates before 1990 and since. 3 of them have actually gotten *more* dangerous.


I could walk up Gasherbrum II. Piece of cake.

And those Poles really know their winter climbing.

[notorious]

Not if it's frozen, it isn't.

At that point it becomes ice.


or so I've been told......

[notorious]

You can use the suit to climb up Everest, but if you use it you have to sing the National Anthem next to every dead body you see in the Dead Zone, and you can only use ladders across chasms between the hours of 10 and 2.

So you can use suits, but you just have to follow the rules.


And you have to take a shot for every dead body.


Boilermaker for every body that is not laying down.



It would take probably .1 ounces of liquor to get completely shit-plowed at that altitude.

[HonestChieffan]

Thanks. I have been meaning to read The Climb for a while but kind of forgot about it. Will also pick up the Ed Viesturs book. I have also been meaning to read more about K2 which seems much more technical than Everest and I recall something similar to the Everest debacle happening in the 80's.

Great read. I know the Bolivian Doctors wife that the book discusses. At the time he was the oldest to summit. He died on the way down under unusual circumstances....http://www.amazon.com/High-Crimes-Fate-Everest-Greed/dp/1401302734

[ThaVirus]

Climbing mountains... That's about the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

[rtmike]

As noble as it may be to try to help other climbers' up on Everest, HTH do you cross all the ladders up there?




http://www.everestnews.com/everest2008/pictures/KhumbaIceFall.jpg



http://www.everestsa.co.za/images/Climbers%20crossing%20a%20ladder%20in%20the%20Khumbu%20Icefall,%2021%20Apr%2006,%20290%20pix.jpg

http://www.mountainsoftravelphotos.com/ReferenceImagesF/Farther%20Than%20The%20Eye%20Can%20See%20DVD%20-%20Erik%20Weihenmayer%20Crossing%20Ladders%20Over%20Crevasse%20In%20Khumbu%20Icefall.jpg

http://images.imagestate.com/Watermark/APF1535.jpg

[rtmike]

Awesome thread. :thumb:

I've been mesmerized for 2 days looking up any listed links. Several books/dvds I now need to check out.

My rep stick is minuscule so I don't even know if it went through, but thanks.

[Dylan]

This is a great Web site, where climbers come for news and stories:

http://www.everestnews.com/

[Donger]

At that point it becomes ice.


or so I've been told......

It's still water, just in a different state.

[Pablo]

So...those individual ladders had to be carried up...

Fuck. That.

[HonestChieffan]

So...those individual ladders had to be carried up...

****. That.
The ladders in he icefall are set up as a joint effort by the groups and are maintained daily as the icefall moves. There is one spot I believe toward the summit that has a ladder that has been there for years...things dont rust or degrade much at those altitudes.

The high ropes are strung by the first party to summit each season

[notorious]

It's still water, just in a different state.

North Dakota?



:D

[notorious]

The high ropes are strung by the first party to summit each season


I bet they felt an added satisfaction knowing that they scaled Everest while dragging huge Elephant balls behind them.

[HonestChieffan]

I bet they felt an added satisfaction knowing that they scaled Everest while dragging huge Elephant balls behind them.

The sherpas do all that work

[HonestChieffan]

National Geographic did a book called Everest, Mountain Without Mercy that is as you would expect, fantastic photos.

[notorious]

The sherpas do all that work

Sherpas can scale Everest in their sleep.


On Everest Beyond the Limit a Sherpa and another guy were going to scale Everest on one side, go all the way down the other side then rescale back to their original camp.


The guy that hired the Sherpa refused to go back up because he said the Sherpa was the superior climber and he didn't feel that he was worthy of the recognition.

Sherpas FTW.

[Pawnmower]

Wow.

[notorious]

http://www.abc-of-mountaineering.com/info/annapurna.asp

http://www.abc-of-mountaineering.com/images/content-images/article4545.jpg


The World's Most Dangerous Mountain


Question: What is the world's most dangerous mountain to climb? Everest? NoK2? Good guess, but no. The world's most dangerous mountain is probably one that you've never even heard of. The answer decidedly is Annapurna.

Annapurna is a peak in the Himalayan Mountains that is the 10th highest in the world at 26,545 feet. So with Mount Everest peaking at over 29,000 feet and eight other mountains at higher elevation, what makes Annapurna so dangerous?

For starters, it's the fatality rate. At 41%! Yes, 58 of the 142 climbers who have attempted Annapurna died. Compare this to the 9% fatality rate of Mount Everest and 27% for K2. What makes this statistic even more sobering is that only the most experienced climbers' attempt Annapurna while Mount Everest is often attempted by relative novices who bought their way onto the steep mountain and with the aid of numerous Sherpa's.

The conditions on Annapurna are the most unpredictable of any mountain. It has been said that skill plays a small role in your ability to peak this mountain since the dangers are not predictable even by the most experienced climbers.

For starters, it is extremely difficult just to make it to the Annapurna base camp. The trek to base camp descends 2,000 feet, then ascends 5,000 feet, and then descends another 4,000 feet. This entire route to base camp is on a steep, narrow, slippery route with many long exposed areas with sheer drops on either side of the trail.

Avalanches are by far the most common cause of death on the mountain. The majority of the climbing route is on a 40-degree incline, which is ideal for avalanches. The notorious Sickle Ice Cliff sits between 23,000 and 24,000 feet in altitude. This cliff juts out over large areas of the north face of the mountain. Unstable ice chunks the size of a house are constantly calving off from the cliff. These chunks can either land on climbers thereby causing instant death or they can start an avalanche. Unfortunately, any avalanche that occurs in this area makes its way down a large glacial basin that is in the direct path of the climbing route. Furthermore, the route crosses the glacial basin many times. Avalanches in the basin can even be triggered by less obvious reasons such as the sun warming the snow or the weight of a climber. There would be no chance of escape for anyone caught in the basin of Annapurna during an avalanche.

There are many routes up Annapurna. In fact, some routes have been created in an effort to minimize exposure to the avalanche-prone basin. However, the trade-off is that much more time is spent in the death-zone an altitude of over 26,000 feet where oxygen levels are so low that the body begins to shut down. Even the act of standing up at this altitude is difficult for most climbers. This includes even your most fit climbers who have taken care of themselves by eating foods rich in natural whole food vitamins and plant based phytonutrients and otherwise have trained to peak condition. For the vast majority, no matter how fit, considerable time spent at this altitude will ultimately result in cerebral edema, frostbite, and loss of consciousness.

The route up Annapurna is also littered with crevasses. A crevasse is a large crack that is caused by two colliding glaciers. The problem is that this crack becomes covered by snow and is invisible to climbers. When a person walks over a crevasse, the snow gives way and the person falls down between the glaciers often to depths of 100 feet or more. In the case that a person lives through a crevasse fall, rescue is possible although extremely dangerous.

A final reason for the great dangers of Annapurna is the lack of aid in the case of emergency. On Mount Everest, for example, 40 people have peaked the mountain in a single day with hundreds attempting the summit throughout the course of the season. Furthermore, dozens of climbers are spread out across the mountain camps during peak season who might be able to provide assistance in case of an emergency. On the other hand, Annapurna has been peaked just over 100 times in the last 60 years. The odds of a high altitude rescue in this remote region are basically non-existent.

Tour providers are available to lead interested climbers up Annapurna. Typical tours are 7 weeks in length and cost roughly $8,000 in addition to airfare to Nepal. Sherpa's may be purchased for an additional $2,500 each. If this trip package sounds appealing, good luck to you. You will definitely need it!

Contributed by: Dr. Linda Kennedy MS SLP ND

[notorious]

http://cdn1.matadornetwork.com/matadortrips.com/docs/wp-content/images/posts/20081024-defranza04.jpg

Matterhorn


Screw that!

[Rain Man]

A final reason for the great dangers of Annapurna is the lack of aid in the case of emergency. On Mount Everest, for example, 40 people have peaked the mountain in a single day with hundreds attempting the summit throughout the course of the season. Furthermore, dozens of climbers are spread out across the mountain camps during peak season who might be able to provide assistance in case of an emergency. On the other hand, Annapurna has been peaked just over 100 times in the last 60 years. The odds of a high altitude rescue in this remote region are basically non-existent.




Liar! Don't trust them!

[cdcox]

Those ladder bridges look like something some rednecks put together just before they won a Darwin award.

[Silock]

Those ladder bridges look like something some rednecks put together just before they won a Darwin award.

Yeah, but it's probably the best way to make a makeshift bridge, considering the crevasses are constantly changing.

[-King-]

Who exactly takes the ladders up there?

[Silock]

Sherpas.