How many of us even saw him play?

[KCrockaholic]

Len Dawson.

How many planteers had the actual privilege to watch the only Quarterback that led us to the Super Bowl, Quarterback our team, in person, or even on T.V.

[Dave Lane]

I swam in his pool. And it was football shaped with laces painted in the bottom. That count for anything?

[Mr. Laz]

countdown until this turns into bashing thread of youknowwho ... 10 ... 9 ... 8 ...

[Bowser]

countdown until this turns into bashing thread of youknowwho ... 10 ... 9 ... 8 ...

Eh?

[milkman]

Raising hand.

[milkman]

Eh?

Took me a second to figure out who he was talking about.

[KCrockaholic]

It's kind of pathetic if none of us ever watched him play. Surely somebody did....It just shows how long it's been I guess.

But hey, we all watch him on channel 9 news everyday, right?

Edit: Well good for Milkman.

[frazod]

I did, although I barely remember being at the game. I was at the first game ever played at Arrowhead in '72 (preseason game against St. Louis). I was 7, and didn't have clue one what was going on, but I was there.

[cdcox]

Me.

[Phobia]

I wasn't old enough. Naturally have seen some replays. I overspent on a Len Dawson signed throwback jersey at a charity event several years ago and now my wife thinks he's my favorite player. I have a football and several other LD autographed items. I'll wait for him to kick the bucket and then sell them all to one of you idiots who have too much money for your own good. Dane?

[siberian khatru]

Saw him on TV.

Unitas, too, when he was with the Chargers. That's sad.

[Spott]

Was he related to Lake Dawson?

[RJ]

Me.

Plenty of Chiefs fans from those days are still alive and capable of basic internet usage. Shocking, I know.

[RJ]

Saw him on TV.

Unitas, too, when he was with the Chargers. That's sad.



I saw Unitas in person but not Dawson. We had moved from KC to Baltimore around the time I fell in love with football.

[frazod]

The one I wish I'd seen play in person is Montana. I've seen the best basketball player (Jordan) and the best baseball player (Pujols) of my lifetime play in person, but not the best football player.

[KCrockaholic]

For those that have, what is the most vivid memory of watching him play? I know, it's a random question, but I'm legitimately curious.

[KCrockaholic]

The one I wish I'd seen play in person is Montana. I've seen the best basketball player (Jordan) and the best baseball player (Pujols) of my lifetime play in person, but not the best football player.

I wish I had gotten to watch more of Walter Payton :(

To this day, he's still my favorite football player of all time.

[TrebMaxx]

I can say I have had the privilege to see him in person and on the tube.

[cdcox]

For those that have, what is the most vivid memory of watching him play? I know, it's a random question, but I'm legitimately curious.

Well there is the TD pass to Taylor in the SB.

There is the Ben Davidson spearing pay.

Those two were huge even when they occurred and have been immortalized through countless re-showings by NFL films.

Also little things like the way he used to lick his fingers and survey the defense as he came up to the LOS.

[alpha_omega]

Nope. My first memories are of Mike Livingston.

[KCrockaholic]

Well there is the TD pass to Taylor in the SB.

There is the Ben Davidson spearing pay.

Those two were huge even when they occurred and have been immortalized through countless re-showings by NFL films.

Also little things like the way he used to lick his fingers and survey the defense as he came up to the LOS.

Interesting. That is exactly what I was looking for.

[englander]

Took me a second to figure out who he was talking about.


Dumbass?

[Dave Lane]

I saw him play saw the SB win. Don't remember much of it as I was a baseball guy at that point.

[Dave Lane]

For those that have, what is the most vivid memory of watching him play? I know, it's a random question, but I'm legitimately curious.

Well I remember the choir huddle and Otis Taylor making great catches more that I remember marveling at Lenny's coolness.

And another favorite of mine was Mike Garrett I liked him because he was a little guy like I was at the time.

[burt]

I was too young, and didn't really understand much of what I saw, but I saw him play. What I do remember is how many people complained.

"Did ya hear about the new Len Dawson doll? Just wind it up and it falls down."

[milkman]

To this day, I still say that Lenny's play fake is still the best I've ever seen.

[Royal Fanatic]

I became a Chiefs fan during the 1969 season when I was 11 years old. I got to see Lenny Dawson play several years.

I'll never forget the second-greatest game in Chiefs history: the AFL championship game in 1969 when the Chiefs beat the Raiders in Oakland 17-7. The Raiders were 12-1-1 that year with two wins over the Chiefs, and they were so sure they were going to win the AFL championship game that they'd already packed their bags for New Orleans for the Super Bowl. The Raiders had to carry their bags from the locker room past the Chiefs players and reporters after the game, and it was funnier than hell.

Len Dawson was also the sportscaster for Channel 9 back then. A few days later he started the sportscast with a little bulletin board with the word "CHAMPS" spelled out on it. He said the Chiefs were "CHAMPS". Then he replaced the "A" with a "U", and he said the Raiders are "CHUMPS".

Then, of course, they upset the Vikings in the 1970 Super Bowl. Those were the days. Two Super Bowls in four years. And if Jan Stenerud hadn't missed the chip shot field against the Dolphins in 1971, the Chiefs would have played in three of the first six Super Bowls.

[RJ]

Well there is the TD pass to Taylor in the SB.

There is the Ben Davidson spearing pay.

Those two were huge even when they occurred and have been immortalized through countless re-showings by NFL films.

Also little things like the way he used to lick his fingers and survey the defense as he came up to the LOS.


To this day I hate Ben Davidson more than I ever hated any athlete in any sport. I hate him the way my Dodger fan grandma hated Bobby Thompson.

When I was a kid I would become Len Dawson in my back yard. I would lick my fingers, take the snap and throw the ball high in the air. Then I would become Otis Taylor, racing down the sideline to make the catch. I would leave Raiders defenders in my dust.

Did I ever mention how much I hate Ben Davidson?

[MikeTheWildcat]

I was young, but I remember Lenny Dawson playing. Lenny was a great leader and a winner. Then came Mike Livingston...not so good.

[Royal Fanatic]

I was young, but I remember Lenny Dawson playing. Lenny was a great leader and a winner. Then came Mike Livingston...not so good.

Livingston was pretty good as a rookie (the Chiefs won all 5 games that he started in their Super Bowl season), but he was pretty disappointing when he became the starter. Of course, he mostly handed the ball off to Mike Garrett that year.

[DTLB58]

I seen him play but it was towards the end of his career. He looked out of shape and the O line wasn't good. It wasn't pretty unfortunately.

The play by play I heard describing his play on the radio of him was much better.

[milkman]

Livingston was pretty good as a rookie (the Chiefs won all 5 games that he started in their Super Bowl season), but he was pretty disappointing when he became the starter.

He was really not good at all.

The Chiefs won those games because of defense.

I think they gave up on average about 16 points in Livingston's starts.

[Royal Fanatic]

To this day I hate Ben Davidson more than I ever hated any athlete in any sport. I hate him the way my Dodger fan grandma hated Bobby Thompson.

When I was a kid I would become Len Dawson in my back yard. I would lick my fingers, take the snap and throw the ball high in the air. Then I would become Otis Taylor, racing down the sideline to make the catch. I would leave Raiders defenders in my dust.

Did I ever mention how much I hate Ben Davidson?
I hated him too. Later on I hated Marv Hubbard just as much.

[Psyko Tek]

I wish I had gotten to watch more of Walter Payton :(

To this day, he's still my favorite football player of all time.

yesa, sweetness was the best running back ever IMHO

if he had a linen nobody would ever approach his record

fuck Mcmahon and the fridges
Walter was the bears offense

[rockymtnchief]

On TV only. I don't remember many details since I was a little shit.

[Boon]

Only saw him on TV.
I do have an autographed (real) 8x10 B&W photo of him.

Also have same kind of photos of Bobby Bell, Hank Stram, and Jan Stenerud.

[cdcox]

To this day I hate Ben Davidson more than I ever hated any athlete in any sport. I hate him the way my Dodger fan grandma hated Bobby Thompson.

When I was a kid I would become Len Dawson in my back yard. I would lick my fingers, take the snap and throw the ball high in the air. Then I would become Otis Taylor, racing down the sideline to make the catch. I would leave Raiders defenders in my dust.

Did I ever mention how much I hate Ben Davidson?

Yep, I was definitely a backyard finger licker.

Incidentally, I invented the slant pattern in 1970. I called it "man over the middle" and it was unstoppable.

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

I did. On TV only - Didn't go to my first Chiefs game until 2004.

Been following the Chiefs since 1966.

[KCrockaholic]

I did. On TV only - Didn't go to my first Chiefs game until 2004.

Been following the Chiefs since 1966.

Took that long?!

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Took that long?!

Well, I actually got to see the Chiefs play here in Baltimore in 1999 (Thursday night game, we won 35-8).

But, yeah, it took me a long time to finally get to see a game in Arrowhead - bounced all around the country in the Army for most of my adult life. Not many pro games the kind of exotic locations the Army picks out to build forts (El Paso, Clarksville TN, Monterey CA, etc.)

[frazod]

Oh, and for KnowMo, with regard to the fucktarded rep comment you just left me, Elway couldn't hold Montana's jock.

[Mr. Kotter]

Only as a young boy...who, born in '63, only vaguely remembers that Lenny got the job done. :shrug:

Lenny, thanks for the limited memories. While I hope and pray for another Chief's Lombardi trophy victory...I've resigned myself to the fact that we may never, ever (in my lifetime, it seems)...see it again.

[Chiefshrink]

I became a Chiefs fan during the 1969 season when I was 11 years old. I got to see Lenny Dawson play several years.

I'll never forget the second-greatest game in Chiefs history: the AFL championship game in 1969 when the Chiefs beat the Raiders in Oakland 17-7. The Raiders were 12-1-1 that year with two wins over the Chiefs, and they were so sure they were going to win the AFL championship game that they'd already packed their bags for New Orleans for the Super Bowl. The Raiders had to carry their bags from the locker room past the Chiefs players and reporters after the game, and it was funnier than hell.

Len Dawson was also the sportscaster for Channel 9 back then. A few days later he started the sportscast with a little bulletin board with the word "CHAMPS" spelled out on it. He said the Chiefs were "CHAMPS". Then he replaced the "A" with a "U", and he said the Raiders are "CHUMPS".

Then, of course, they upset the Vikings in the 1970 Super Bowl. Those were the days. Two Super Bowls in four years. And if Jan Stenerud hadn't missed the chip shot field against the Dolphins in 1971, the Chiefs would have played in three of the first six Super Bowls.

Great story:thumb:

[suzzer99]

Me.

Plenty of Chiefs fans from those days are still alive and capable of basic internet usage. Shocking, I know.

Grumpy old man itt. :p

[mikey23545]

I only saw Lenny on TV (I've always lived somewhere in Florida, and never saw the Chiefs live till 2000), and of course since he was the QB, that's who I was in the backyard as well (with my little brother playing the part of Otis Taylor).

Besides some games that others have already mentioned, a couple of games that always stuck out in my mind were in 1971...One was against the 6-0 Washington Redskins when a late Dawson to Taylor TD pass completed a big Chiefs comeback to knock off the previously undefeated Redskins. Otis made a spectacular one-handed catch with the DB holding his other arm. Me and my brother went ape-shit jumping around the living room.

The other game was one I can still barely talk about to this day. Christmas day, 1971...You youngsters who think you had some heartbreak in the 90's have no idea what real playoff tragedy is...

[mlyonsd]

Loved watching him on tv with Curt Gowdy doing the broadcasts.

[redsurfer11]

Saw him play @NYJ and Baltimore. Watched him on TV for 10 seasons.

[ChiefButthurt]

Raises hand. I was in the sixth grade and it was the first SuperBowl I sat down to watch.

[black angus]

I watched lenny on TV every week in the old AFL days. The Chiefs had such an exciting
team to watch. Dominant defense and scintillating offense.
I' ll never forget the cheap shot from that POS Ben Davidson.

[spanky 52]

Hand raised. Enjoyed the AFL games, they were always exciting, sometimes lop sided. Remember the Davidson play and eagerly watched for the retaliation.

[mlyonsd]

The 1971 Christmas Day game was a huge kick in the nards.

[splatbass]

My dad had season tickets in the early '70s, so I saw him many times.

[Pioli Zombie]

I did. I remember the '71 season well. Even as little Giants fan living in New England he was my 2nd favorite qb behind Tarkenton. My favorite game was when the 4-1 Chiefs beat the 5-0 Redskins on National television when Otis Taylor torched the Redskins. CBS. Ray Scott and Pat Summerall. Great days.

[reschief]

I saw him play when I young and wore my Chief's t-shirt with pride. I recall having a "Property of the Kansas City Chiefs" t-shirt. I still have my 1991 AFC Playoffs t-shirt when DeBerg led us to the 10-6 playoff win in Arrowhead over the hated Raiders (the best game I attended since it was a playoff win). My father met Montana at a restraunt in SF after leading the 49ers to playoff win over da Bears. I never got to meet Montana, darn it.

[Dartgod]

And if Jan Stenerud hadn't missed the chip shot field against the Dolphins in 1971, the Chiefs would have played in three of the first six Super Bowls.

The other game was one I can still barely talk about to this day. Christmas day, 1971...You youngsters who think you had some heartbreak in the 90's have no idea what real playoff tragedy is...
That still hurts whenever I think about it. A close second is the pain I felt when Mark Littell gave up a walk off homer to Chris Chambliss in 1976.

I'm not sure I ever saw Lenny play live, but I remember plenty of times on TV including the Super Bowl.

[Deberg_1990]

Never saw him play. First Chiefs coach i remember was Wiggins i think? I do remember the team being fairly horrible in the mid to late 70's...

[suds79]

Nope.

First Chiefs QB I remember watching at all was probably Steve Deberg.

Pretty good one to start with right there. :thumb:

[REDHOTGTO]

count me in, i was at the new stadium the first year, only 7 but i was there

[mikey23545]

That still hurts whenever I think about it. A close second is the pain I felt when Mark Littell gave up a walk off homer to Chris Chambliss in 1976.

I'm not sure I ever saw Lenny play live, but I remember plenty of times on TV including the Super Bowl.

Damn you, you son of a gun, for making me remember something I thought was almost gone from memory...I came close to weeping from pure utter frustration when Chambliss hit that home run and wiped out that great game by George Brett...Usually I reserve great emotion for the sport of football, but that particular baseball game really ripped my heart out...

[JD10367]

Just think. In 2045, someone could be posting this thread about HOF QB Matt Cassel.



















:rolleyes: What? It could happen.

(So could Olivia Wilde bursting through the door right now with a steak and a BJ, but the odds are probably just as slim...)

[REDHOTGTO]

and if i remember right , in 74 i watched lenny play broadway joe in arrowhead, i got to go a lot as a kid, great times

[Royal Fanatic]

Damn you, you son of a gun, for making me remember something I thought was almost gone from memory...I came close to weeping from pure utter frustration when Chambliss hit that home run and wiped out that great game by George Brett...Usually I reserve great emotion for the sport of football, but that particular baseball game really ripped my heart out...
I thought it was far worse in 1977 when the Royals took a lead into the 9th inning of the final game of the ALCS and then blew it. I was sitting out in right field. I never saw 40,000 people sit in absolute dead silence like that after a game.

The Royals had the best record in baseball that year. The underachieved for the first 100 games or so, and then wound up winning something like 40 out of their last 50 games to run away with the division. When they lost to the Yankees in the playoffs it was heartbreaking. That was by far the strongest team the Royals ever had.

[milkman]

I thought it was far worse in 1977 when the Royals took a lead into the 9th inning of the final game of the ALCS and then blew it. I was sitting out in right field. I never saw 40,000 people sit in absolute dead silence like that after a game.

The Royals had the best record in baseball that year. The underachieved for the first 100 games or so, and then wound up winning something like 40 out of their last 50 games to run away with the division. When they lost to the Yankees in the playoffs it was heartbreaking. That was by far the strongest team the Royals ever had.

Is that the year they had something like a 16 game win streak?

[Royal Fanatic]

Is that the year they had something like a 16 game win streak?

Yes. If I remember correctly, they were playing pretty bad right after the All-Star break and they were sitting in second or third place. They had a series against the Yankees, and after one of the games Reggie Jackson stepped onto the Royals team bus and told them they were going to win the AL West because they were much better than any of the other teams. Not long after that they started their 16 game winning streak and were the hottest team in baseball going into the postseason.

I don't know if Jackson's visit had anything to do with that, but I always thought it was pretty cool that he said that. The Royals did seem to gain a lot of confidence right about that time. (I'm sure Billy Martin wanted to punch Jackson in the face for that).

[Alton deFlat]

Yep, I do. I started following the Chiefs in 1968 or so. Dawson, Mike Livingston, Willie Lanier, Buck Buchanan, Emmitt Thomas, Johnny Robinson, Warren McVey.

[gblowfish]

I started watching the Chiefs as a little kid around 1965.
I saw all of Dawson's career from that point forward.

They didn't call him "Lenny the Cool" for nothing.

Milkman said last week he didn't think Len Dawson deserved being in the Pro Football HOF. I must strongly disagree. He was one of the central figures in the success of the AFL.

Lenny Dawson IS KC Chiefs football.

[royr17]

I never did, but I knew my dad has. He also witnessed the first super bowl played and the first super bowl the Chiefs won. Im sure there are some on here that has and some that hasnt.

I only seen him play on highlights but never actually saw him play when he was actually playing.

[Extra Point]

Saw him on TV as a kid, met him while dining out with Mom on the Plaza, a few years ago. He IS KC football, as GBF said. As a kid playing street football, I was OT on offense, Bobby Bell on defense. Good times.

Did not have a fun Christmas nite when they lost to the Dolphins. And yes, silver and black make for the shittiest color combination, and will always.

[milkman]

I started watching the Chiefs as a little kid around 1965.
I saw all of Dawson's career from that point forward.

They didn't call him "Lenny the Cool" for nothing.

Milkman said last week he didn't think Len Dawson deserved being in the Pro Football HOF. I must strongly disagree. He was one of the central figures in the success of the AFL.

Lenny Dawson IS KC Chiefs football.

I think of Willie Lanier and Bobby Bell as KC Chiefs football.

Here are my thoughts.

Bill Walsh is credited with creating the West Coast offense, but Hank Stram was utilizing most of the same concepts in his offense.

He was one of the most creative and innovative minds in football.

He used a RBBC, and he used the short passing game as an extention to the running game, which he used more than most of the AFL.

The Chiefs were essentially a runnning team in a largely wide open AFL.

They also had one of the biggest, if not the biggest, O-Lines in that era, but those guys were also among the most mobile as well, which allowed for Stram to utilize the moving pocket, another of his innovations.

Lenny manged that offense as well as anyone could, but the Chiefs won because of defense.

That '69-70 defense only allowed 177 points, in a season in which Lenny missed 6 games to injury.

They followed that up with 20 points allowed in two playoff games and the SB combined.

[mlyonsd]

I think of Willie Lanier and Bobby Bell as KC Chiefs football.

Here are my thoughts.

Bill Walsh is credited with creating the West Coast offense, but Hank Stram was utilizing most of the same concepts in his offense.

He was one of the most creative and innovative minds in football.

He used a RBBC, and he used the short passing game as an extention to the running game, which he used more than most of the AFL.

The Chiefs were essentially a runnning team in a largely wide open AFL.

They also had one of the biggest, if not the biggest, O-Lines in that era, but those guys were also among the most mobile as well, which allowed for Stram to utilize the moving pocket, another of his innovations.

Lenny manged that offense as well as anyone could, but the Chiefs won because of defense.

That '69-70 defense only allowed 177 points, in a season in which Lenny missed 6 games to injury.

They followed that up with 20 points allowed in two playoff games and the SB combined.

If you watch that SB game film it's scary to see just how good the D was. Stifling.

[gblowfish]

The case for Lenny:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=53

[milkman]

If you watch that SB game film it's scary to see just how good the D was. Stifling.

Underrated on that defense was Aaron Brown, who I would bet, if they kept the stat back then, sacked QBs at least 12 times in '69, and I believe got to Joe Kapp twice in that SB.

[mlyonsd]

Underrated on that defense was Aaron Brown, who I would bet, if they kept the stat back then, sacked QBs at least 12 times in '69, and I believe got to Joe Kapp twice in that SB.

Was he the one that patted Kapp on the head when he was down?

[milkman]

Was he the one that patted Kapp on the head when he was down?

I think he might be, but not sure.

[Deberg_1990]

The case for Lenny:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=53

heh, its really hard to compare players of today to guys from that era. Dawsons numbers look pedestrian when compared to throwers from today. Teams just didnt throw as much back then.

[Rain Man]

led us to the super bowl? you mean mike livingston?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Coogs]

I became a fan of the Chiefs during the winter before the 1st Super Bowl. Prior to that, I was pretty much a Baltimore Colts fan, and a Bears/Vikings fan as the local CBS channel showed them pretty much every week. TV where I lived was pretty much confined to CBS over the open air antenna out of Lincoln or Grand Island Nebraska. Getting NBC out of Hastings Nebraska was total hit or miss... more often miss.

A local high school had a charity type basketball event that winter, and the Chiefs were the guest team that played against the school faculty from that local town. I was about 9 at the time, and the thing about the game that I still recall was how big Buck Buchanan was. Dude was a giant compared to everything I knew at that time.

I began watching the Chiefs regularly after that event... even if I had to watch it through "the snow" on the Hastings TV station.

It was a great time to be a Chiefs fan.

[kappa72202]

I saw Lenny play many a game as far back as 1966. In the summer time when I was in college, he was looking for people to throw to in his off season workouts so I voluntered. Before I was accepted he made me catch a few balls from another individual so he could see if I caught with my hands or my body. If I was a body catcher he was afraid that the football would break a rib or 2. After catching a few of Dawson's balls his caution was well founded. You do not realize how hard a pro quarterback actually throws the ball until you catch one.. He was and is a class individual

[Deberg_1990]

heh, its really hard to compare players of today to guys from that era. Dawsons numbers look pedestrian when compared to throwers from today. Teams just didnt throw as much back then.

I take that back....dude was putting up 30 TD's in 64....wingin it!

[milkman]

heh, its really hard to compare players of today to guys from that era. Dawsons numbers look pedestrian when compared to throwers from today. Teams just didnt throw as much back then.

The rules have evolved to favor the passing game.

Back then, O-Lineman were not allowed to use their hands. D-Lineman could use almost any means available to get after the QB, DBs could mug receivers until the ball was in the air.

Given the rules back then, one thing I think that George and I can agree on is that Lenny's accuracy was remarkable.

[Deberg_1990]

Back then, O-Lineman were not allowed to use their hands. D-Lineman could use almost any means available to get after the QB, DBs could mug receivers until the ball was in the air.



wow, thats incredible....its like a completely different game today.

[boogblaster]

watched him play many times .. once live ...

[gblowfish]

There's more games in a season now than in the AFL days too. So stats are bigger partly because more games are part of the schedule. When Dawson retired he was in the top five of most meaningful NFL passing records.

[milkman]

wow, thats incredible....its like a completely different game today.

That Otis Taylor catch thta someone alluded to earlier in this thread was one of the greatest catches I've ever seen.

It was perfestly thrown ball by Dawson, but Pat Fischer, Redskins corner was draped all over Taylor and had Taylor's left hand pinned to Taylor's side, so taylor simply snatched it out of the air with his right hand.

The most incredible thing about that play, though, was that the refs didn't throw a flag for pass interference.

[milkman]

There's more games in a season now than in the AFL days too. So stats are bigger partly because more games are part of the schedule. When Dawson retired he was in the top five of most meaningful NFL passing records.

I've talked about this before, but while the numbers are skewed to some extent by the increased schedule, the rules play more into the numbers than the schedule.

Johnny Unitas only had one season in his career in which he attempted more than 400 passes.
Peyton Manning has had only 2 seasons in his career in which he has attempted fewer than 500 passes, and has never attempted fewer than 450.

Looking at it another way, Johnny U attempted an average of 24.5 passes a game, while Manning has averaged 34.5 attempts per game.

[Royal Fanatic]

led us to the super bowl? you mean mike livingston?
Posted via Mobile Device
Uh, no. Livingston was a rookie game manager whose job was to keep the ship afloat until Dawson got healthy.

I'll agree with Milkman that by far the strength of the team was the defense.

Dawson didn't compile great statistics, but he did play in a vastly different era. I certainly wouldn't put him in the category of a game manager. He called the plays in the huddle and was clearly the leader of the offense. He may not have totally controlled the offense in the manner of a Peyton Manning, but he was no Trent Dilfer either. He was a solid quarterback who played in two Super Bowls (with one Super Bowl MVP award). Of all of the quarterbacks who played in the AFL, he was voted second (behind Joe Namath) to the all-time all-AFL team.

That sounds like a Hall of Fame quarterback to me.

What isn't fair is that Otis Taylor never made it.

[ChiefsCountry]

And if Jan Stenerud hadn't missed the chip shot field against the Dolphins in 1971, the Chiefs would have played in three of the first six Super Bowls.

That Christmas Day game was a pretty big one in the history of the NFL. Alot of what if scenarios play out if the Chiefs win that one.

[milkman]

Lenny Dawson, in his 14 years as a texan/Chief, attempted 3696 passes in his career, an average of 20.2 per game.

Drew Brees, who Lenny can be compared to favorably, has attempted 3013 passes as a Saint, an average of 38.1 per game.

[Coogs]

That Otis Taylor catch thta someone alluded to earlier in this thread was one of the greatest catches I've ever seen.

It was perfestly thrown ball by Dawson, but Pat Fischer, Redskins corner was draped all over Taylor and had Taylor's left hand pinned to Taylor's side, so taylor simply snatched it out of the air with his right hand.

The most incredible thing about that play, though, was that the refs didn't throw a flag for pass interference.

Story...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1085535/index.htm

And possibly a video...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/205586/game-of-the-week-washington-redskins-vs-kansas-city-chiefs-week-6-1971

[milkman]

Uh, no. Livingston was a rookie game manager whose job was to keep the ship afloat until Dawson got healthy.

I'll agree with Milkman that by far the strength of the team was the defense.

Dawson didn't compile great statistics, but he did play in a vastly different era. I certainly wouldn't put him in the category of a game manager. He called the plays in the huddle and was clearly the leader of the offense. He may not have totally controlled the offense in the manner of a Peyton Manning, but he was no Trent Dilfer either. He was a solid quarterback who played in two Super Bowls (with one Super Bowl MVP award). Of all of the quarterbacks who played in the AFL, he was voted second (behind Joe Namath) to the all-time all-AFL team.

That sounds like a Hall of Fame quarterback to me.

What isn't fair is that Otis Taylor never made it.

In that era, the only teams that had a coach calling the plays were the Browns and the Cowboys.

[SNR]

Oh, and for KnowMo, with regard to the fucktarded rep comment you just left me, Elway couldn't hold Montana's jock.:doh!: That boy is special

[milkman]

Story...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1085535/index.htm

And possibly a video...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/205586/game-of-the-week-washington-redskins-vs-kansas-city-chiefs-week-6-1971

That was awesome Coogs.

Thanks for the link.

[Coogs]

That was awesome Coogs.

Thanks for the link.

:thumb:

[DaneMcCloud]

I saw Lenny play at the old Municipal stadium and at Arrowhead because my dad was in the Chiefs band at that time. I was young, but it was clear that Lenny was the Man the Chiefs looked different on offense without him. I met him and Jan Stenerud several times and I recall going to Jan's house for a birthday party one year.

With that said, one of the best receivers I've ever seen play at any level, in person or on TV was Otis Taylor. The guy was absolutely unbelievable and it's unconscionable that he's not in the Pro Football HOF.

If he played in today's NFL, he'd be regarded as being in the same class as Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson. Hell, maybe even better, considering today's rules.

[milkman]

I saw Lenny play at the old Municipal stadium and at Arrowhead because my dad was in the Chiefs band at that time. I was young, but it was clear that Lenny was the Man the Chiefs looked different on offense without him. I met him and Jan Stenerud several times and I recall going to Jan's house for a birthday party one year.

With that said, one of the best receivers I've ever seen play at any level, in person or on TV was Otis Taylor. The guy was absolutely unbelievable and it's unconscionable that he's not in the Pro Football HOF.

If he played in today's NFL, he'd be regarded as being in the same class as Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson. Hell, maybe even better, considering today's rules.

Otis Taylor at WR, like Buck Buchanon at DT, became the prototype that teams looked for.

His combination of size and speed was unheard of before he played.

[tk13]

I thought this was going to be another Bob Sanders thread.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Coogs]

That was awesome Coogs.

Thanks for the link.

Finally got to see it myself. It was blocked at work for some reason. Man, what a trip down memory lane! Good watch!

[RJ]

Yep, I was definitely a backyard finger licker.

Incidentally, I invented the slant pattern in 1970. I called it "man over the middle" and it was unstoppable.


How are those royalty checks working out for you?

I invented the Batmobile Hot Wheels car. I even sent the manufacturer a letter to propose the idea and all I asked for was a lousy 5 bucks. You think I ever saw a dime?

That's when I first learned about The Man keeping you down.

Congrats on the slant pattern.

[RJ]

Grumpy old man itt. :p


You kids stay off my lawn!

[RJ]

The 1971 Christmas Day game was a huge kick in the nards.


I'm still a little sore.

[RJ]

That still hurts whenever I think about it. A close second is the pain I felt when Mark Littell gave up a walk off homer to Chris Chambliss in 1976.

I'm not sure I ever saw Lenny play live, but I remember plenty of times on TV including the Super Bowl.


Yeah, that was depressing. I can still se the whole thing in my mind.

[Pioli Zombie]

I see Len Dawson every time I watch Matt Cassel take the field. The poise. The leadership. The clutch play. What a winner! What a guy!

[RJ]

Story...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1085535/index.htm

And possibly a video...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/205586/game-of-the-week-washington-redskins-vs-kansas-city-chiefs-week-6-1971


Great video if you have a little time. I highly reccomend.

[chefsos]

Great video if you have a little time. I highly reccomend.
Just finished watching it. Awesome. I'm gonna go back and rep Coogs for that.

[chefsos]

Lenny was 1-10 for -7 yards (and 2 picks) in the first half! I bet there was much bitching in that game thread.

[RJ]

Lenny was 1-10 for -7 yards (and 2 picks) in the first half! I bet there was much bitching in that game thread.


I've often wondered how much different my football perspective would have been had the internet existed in those days.

[chefsos]

Holy crap! Raiders/Chiefs from Week 13, 1971. We kids wrested control of the TV from Dad for a short time, and saw the end of this game when the Chiefs drove late to beat those scumbags. This is the day I became a Chiefs fan.

I'm about to watch it. Curious to see if it looks the way I remember it.

It's a doubleheader, though, so go to 12:50 unless you want to see Vikes/Lions.

<object width="512" height="288"><param name="movie" value="http://www.hulu.com/embed/ivi3F8vRgD0-URRknQ9ojA"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.hulu.com/embed/ivi3F8vRgD0-URRknQ9ojA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="512" height="288" allowFullScreen="true"></embed></object>

Holy crap!

[chefsos]

I've often wondered how much different my football perspective would have been had the internet existed in those days.It probably would have made things a little tougher. Jeez, I just remembered that these clips also date from within weeks of the Roberto Clemente Series. Grr.

[KChiefs1]

Watched Lenny for several years before he retired. He was definitely underappreciated when he was playing.

[cdcox]

Story...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1085535/index.htm

And possibly a video...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/205586/game-of-the-week-washington-redskins-vs-kansas-city-chiefs-week-6-1971

That was awesome. I remember listening to that game in my grandma's basement. I was pacing around the whole game hanging on every play. The radio call of Otis Taylor's touchdown gave me as big a thrill as any I've had as a Chiefs fan.

Near the end of the video you can see the members of the Oak Park Northmen band cheering in the stands (my alma mater). They must have played at halftime.

[RippedmyFlesh]

GB pitt ne ind sd no all can argue their qb is the best.
At his best Len Dawson was in that argument of his time. Minus the Joe years I don't
ever remember being able to get in that argument as a Chief's fan.
The D was so good they could have won games with a dilfer type but with Lenny we were as good as any one in both leagues.
Accurate clutch tough..Lenny Cool..he was my hero growing up.

[Psyko Tek]

one thing I love about Lenny the cool doing the radio
is how you can hear his disgust in the Herm years teams
my gawd, he hated those games
and when the other guy came up with Centaur I swear lenny ordered a double scotch

[Frankie]

I've seen him in live games. TV though.

[KC Tattoo]

To this day, I still say that Lenny's play fake is still the best I've ever seen.

I couldn't argue with that. Steve Deberg playaction with Christian Okoye to Stephone Page was pretty ****ing good tho.

[fletch]

unfortunatle not has anybody lol

[ROYC75]

Games on TV, at games,Channel 9, in person and shook his hand as a kid in a bank.

[Inspector]

I believe I saw every game he played as a Chief. Also met EJ Holup and Dave Hill. Holup used to ride and do the horse shoes for Warpaint which was housed at a boarding ranch next to my property back in the day.....Ah, memories. I have a lot but have trouble trying to actually remember them.

[Inspector]

Also met Ed Budde too. And his kid Brad.

[milkman]

I believe I saw every game he played as a Chief. Also met EJ Holup and Dave Hill. Holup used to ride and do the horse shoes for Warpaint which was housed at a boarding ranch next to my property back in the day.....Ah, memories. I have a lot but have trouble trying to actually remember them.

Ah...if only you could remember the name was Holub.