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dirk digler
02-23-2011, 12:40 PM
lol what a dumbass. He must have went to the Sarah Palin school of dumbassery.

Ian Murphy, editor of the Buffalo Beast, prank called union-busting Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker pretending to be industrialist and secret Republican overlord David Koch, whose money has been fueling Walker and state Republicans' ongoing battle with labor. And Walker believed it.

In a key detail, Walker reveals that he is, in effect, laying a trap for Wisconsin Dems. He says he is mulling inviting the Senate and Assembly Dem and GOP leaders to sit down and talk, but only if all the missing Senate Dems return to work.

Then, tellingly, he reveals that the real game plan here is that if they do return, Republicans might be able to use a procedural move to move forward with their proposal.

"If they're actually in session for that day and they take a recess, this 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they'd have a quorum because they started out that way," he says. "If you heard that I was going to talk to them that would be the only reason why."

Then the fake Koch says this: "Bring a baseball bat. That's what I'd do."
Walker doesn't bat an eye, and responds: "I have one in my office, you'd be happy with that. I've got a slugger with my name on it."

12:09 p.m.: Another key exchange:

FAKE KOCH: What we were thinking about the crowds was, planting some troublemakers.

WALKER: We thought about that. My only gut reaction to that would be, right now, the lawmakers I talk to have just completely had it with them. The public is not really fond of this.The teachers union did some polling and focus groups...

It's unclear what Walker means when he says he "thought" about planting some troublemakers, but it seems fair to ask him for clarification.

UPDATE, 12:27 p.m.: One last fun tidbit: Walker appears to agree when "Koch" calls David Axelrod a "son of a bitch." Walker tells an anecdote in which he was having dinner with Jim Sensebrenner, and at a nearby table he saw Mika Brzezinski and Greta VanSusteren having dinner with David Axelrod. Then this exchange occured:WALKER: I introduced myself.
FAKE KOCH: That son of a bitch.
WALKER: Yeah, no kidding, right?
UPDATE, 12:41 p.m.: Another great exchange:FAKE KOCH: Well, I'll tell ya what, Scott. Once you crush these bastards, I'll fly ya out to Cali and really show you a good time.
WALKER: Alright. That would be outstanding. Thanks for all the support and helping us move the cause forward.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 01:46 PM
So these are the tactics the left is resorting to now? :rolleyes:

Walker didn't say anything in this "private" conversation that he hasn't said in public. Sorry, nice try though. Next.

tiptap
02-23-2011, 01:50 PM
That is the party line. He talks staight.

Mr. Kotter
02-23-2011, 01:52 PM
Wow. Stay classy there, Gov Walker!

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 01:55 PM
So these are the tactics the left is resorting to now? :rolleyes:

Walker didn't say anything in this "private" conversation that he hasn't said in public. Sorry, nice try though. Next.

I doubt he would tell a union member he is a bastard to his face or in public. If so he would get his teeth knocked in and end up like Jimmy Hoffa

The Rick
02-23-2011, 01:59 PM
I would suggest that you actually listen to the conversation, and not just read the abbreviated transcript because you miss out on context and tone.

For example, the baseball bat comment by Walker was dripping with sarcasm.

Regarding the comment about "planting some troublemakers", the above transcript has taken it completely out of context. It's obvious by the way Walker's response makes absolutely no sense to the supposed previous statement by the "fake Koch".

The Rick
02-23-2011, 02:00 PM
I doubt he would tell a union member he is a bastard to his face or in public. If so he would get his teeth knocked in and end up like Jimmy Hoffa
Please show me where Walker called anyone a bastard.

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 02:03 PM
Please show me where Walker called anyone a bastard.

My bad he only agreed with it.

It is just funny that some random guy calls him up and he fell for it.

tiptap
02-23-2011, 02:07 PM
I would suggest that you actually listen to the conversation, and not just read the abbreviated transcript because you miss out on context and tone.

For example, the baseball bat comment by Walker was dripping with sarcasm.

Regarding the comment about "planting some troublemakers", the above transcript has taken it completely out of context. It's obvious by the way Walker's response makes absolutely no sense to the supposed previous statement by the "fake Koch".

While I agree that the baseball bat comment was the same tone as Vice President Cheney's invitation for Mahler to join him hunting for quail, the comments about planting trouble makers was more in line with troubles in actually being able to do this without getting caught.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 02:13 PM
My bad he only agreed with it.
:LOL: Give me a break!

The Rick
02-23-2011, 02:22 PM
It just amazes me the extent the left will go. There are no limits to their conniving tactics: flee the state, prank phone calls attempting to catch him saying something, etc. It's like they just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall hoping something will stick.

Remember, previously we were hearing how Walker was "in bed" with the Koch family, and now, here's another tactic that shows what was said previously about the relationship between Walker and the Koch family is completely false.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 02:24 PM
By the way, here's the FULL transcript of the conversation:
Here's a complete transcript of the Buffalo Beast prank conversation with Gov. Scott Walker Tuesday, from recordings by the Beast. Ian Murphy of the Beast poses in the call as David Koch, a billionaire contributor of Walker's.

Walker: Hi; this is Scott Walker.

Koch: Scott! David Koch. How are you?

Walker: Hey, David! I’m good. And yourself?

Koch: I’m very well. I’m a little disheartened by the situation there, but, uh, what’s the latest?

Walker: Well, we’re actually hanging pretty tough. I mean, you know, amazingly there’s a much smaller group of protesters almost all of whom are in from other states today. The State Assembly is taking the bill up, getting it all the way to the last point it can be at where it’s unamendable. But they’re waiting to pass it until the Senate’s — the Senate Democrats, excuse me, the assembly Democrats have about a hundred amendments they’re going through. The state Senate still has the 14 members missing but what they’re doing today is bringing up all sorts of other nonfiscal items, many of which are things members in the Democratic side care about. And each day we’re going to ratchet it up a little bit. The Senate majority leader had a great plan he told about this morning — he told the Senate Democrats about and he’s going to announce it later today — and that is: The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk — it’s a little procedural thing here, but — can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted —

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: — into your checking account and instead, you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them — which we just loved — to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.

Koch: Now you’re not talking to any of these Democrat bastards, are you?

Walker: Ah, I, there’s one guy that’s actually voted with me on a bunch of things I called on Saturday for about 45 minutes, mainly to tell him that while I appreciate his friendship and he’s worked with us on other things, to tell him I wasn’t going to budge.

Koch: [Expletive] right!

Walker: Mainly because I thought he’s about the only reasonable one over there, I figured if I talked to him, he’d go back to the rest of the gang and say you know, I know Walker and he’s not budging.

Koch: Now what’s his name again?

Walker: Uh, his name is Tim Cullen —

Koch: All right, I’ll have to give that man a call.

Walker: Well, actually, in his case I wouldn’t call him and I’ll tell you why: He’s pretty reasonable but he’s not one of us. So I would let him be. I think he is in a position where he can maybe motivate that caucus. But he’s not an ally, he’s just a guy. He was in the Senate years ago, he was actually the Senate Democratic leader back in the ’80s and (former Gov.) Tommy Thompson hired him to be the head of Health and Human Services. He went into the private sector, made real money and became a little more open-minded, and last fall he got elected to the Senate seat he was in 25 years ago. And he’s kind of one of these guys who he really doesn’t care, he’s not there for political reasons, he’s just trying to get something done. So he’s good to reach out to for me, but he’s not a conservative, he’s just a pragmatist.

Koch: Now who can we get to budge on this collective bargaining?

Walker: Well, I think in the end, a couple of things. One, if the, I think the paycheck will have an impact. Secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next, we’ll probably announce in the next day or two — we’ve been working with our Republican leaders in the Legislature — we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state. We think there’s at a minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.

Koch: Well, they’re probably putting hobos in suits.

Walker: Yeah.

Koch: That’s what we do. Sometimes.

Walker: I mean paying for the senators to be put up. I know they’re paying for these guys to be here — I mean, people can pay for protesters to come in and that’s not an ethics code, but, I mean, literally if the unions are paying the 14 senators, if they’re paying for their food, their lodging, anything like that, we believe at a minimum it’s an ethics code violation and it may very well be a felony, misconduct in office. Because see technically, it’s not just a political contribution, it is, if they’re being paid to keep them from doing their job, we think that there’s legally an obstruction of justice, but an obstruction of their ability to do their job, and we still got, the attorney general’s office is looking into it for us. So we’re trying about four or five different angles. Each day we crank up a little bit more pressure. The other thing is I’ve got layoff notices ready, we put out the at-risk notices, we’ll announce Thursday, they’ll go out early next week and we’ll probably get five to six thousand state workers will get at-risk notices for layoffs. We might ratchet that up a little bit too.

Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. Gotta crush that union.

Walker: Well it’s one of those where in the end, and I’ve had not only Cullen — I’ve talked to him myself — I had three or four of my other business leader friends who know him over the years and just kind of pass the message on to these guys, if they think I’m caving, they’ve been asleep for the last eight years because I’ve taken on every major battle in Milwaukee County and won even in the county where I’m overwhelmingly overpowered politically and it’s because we don’t budge.

Koch: [Expletive] right.

Walker: If you’re doing the right thing, you stay firm. And in this case, we say we’ll wait it out. If they want to start sacrificing thousands of public workers to be laid off, sooner or later there’s going to be pressure on these senators to come back.

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: We’re not compromising. The other thing we may do, ‘cause the senator I mentioned thinks that these guys, you’ve got a few of the radical ones who unfortunately one of them is the minority leader, but most the rest of them are just looking for a way to get out of this. And they’re scared out of their mind, they don’t know what it means. There’s a bunch of recalls up against them. They’d really like to just get up back here and get it over with. So the paycheck thing, some of the other things threatened them. I think collectively there’s enough going on and as long as they don’t think I’m going to cave, which again we have no interest in. An interesting idea that was brought up to me this morning by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow is putting out an appeal to the Democrat leader that I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the Assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders — talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn — but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it to come back in the room to talk to me, but they all have to go back there. The reason is — we’re verifying it this afternoon — but legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have a quorum because they started out that way. So we’re double checking that. If you heard that I was going to talk to them, that would be the only reason why. We would only do it if they came back to the Capitol with all 14 of them. My sense is hell, I’ll talk to them, if they want to yell at me for an hour, you know I’m used to that, I can deal with that, but I’m not negotiating.

Koch: Bring a baseball bat. That’s what I’d do.

Walker: [Laughs] I have one in my office; you’d be happy with that. [Laughs] I have a Slugger with my name on it.

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: But in the end, this is, and I even pointed it out last night ‘cause I’m trying to keep out as many of the private unions as possible. I said, this is about the budget. This is about public sector unions. Hell, even FDR got is. There’s no place for the kind of, I mean, essentially you’re having taxpayers’ money being used to pay to lobby for spending more of taxpayers’ money. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: So this is ground zero, there’s no doubt about it. But I think for us, I just keep telling my, I call any, I tell the speaker, the Senate majority leader every night: Give me a list of people I need to call at home, shore ‘em up. The New York Times of all things, I don’t normally tell people to read The New York Times, but the front page of The New York Times has got a great story, one of these unbelievable moments of true journalism, what it’s supposed to be objective journalism. They got out of the Capitol and went down, one county south from the Capitol to Janesville, to Rock County, that’s where the General Motors plant once was. They moved out two years ago. The lead on this story is about a guy who was laid off two years ago, he’d been laid off twice by GM, who points out that everybody else in his town has had to sacrifice except for all these public employees, and it’s about damn time that they do and he supports me. And they had a bartender, and they had every stereotypical blue collar worker type they interviewed, and the only ones that weren’t with us were people who were either a public employee or married to a public employee. It’s an unbelievable story. So I went through and called a handful, a dozen or so lawmakers I worry about each day and said, “Every one of you should get that story printed out and send it to anyone giving you grief.”

Koch: [Expletive] right! We, uh, we sent, uh, Andrew Breitbart down there.

Walker: Yeah.

Koch: Yeah.

Walker: Good stuff.

Koch: Yeah. He’s our man, you know.

Walker: Well it has been amazing to me, the massive amount of attention. I want to stay ahead, so every day I do a five o’clock press conference, tonight I’m actually doing a fireside chat, the state TV stations are picking up and I guess a bunch of the national ones too. And in the last couple of days when I do the TV shows, I’ve been going after Obama because he’s stuck his — although he’s backed off now — but he’s stuck his nose in here. And I said, they asked me what I thought about it, and I said the last time I checked, this guy’s got a much bigger budget deficit than we do, maybe he should worry about that and not stick his nose in Wisconsin’s business. We’ve had all the national shows, we were on Hannity (“The Sean Hannity Show”) last night, I did “Good Morning America” and “The Today Show” and all that sort of stuff, was on “Good Morning Joe” this morning. We’ve done Greta (“On The Record with Greta Van Susteren”). We’re going to keep getting our message out; Mark Levin (“The Mark Levin Show”) last night. And I gotta tell you, the response around the country has been phenomenal. I had Brian (Sadoval), the new Governor of Nevada, called me the last night he said — he was out in the Lincoln Day Circuit in the last two weekends — and he was kidding me, he’s new as well as me, he said, “Scott, don’t come to Nevada because I’d be afraid you beat me running for governor.” That’s all they want to talk about is what are you doing to help the governor of Wisconsin. I talk to Kasich every day, John’s gotta stand firm in Ohio. I think we could do the same thing with Vic Scott in Florida. I think, uh, (Rick) Snyder, if he got a little more support, probably could do that in Michigan. You start going down the list there’s a lot of us new governors that got elected to do something big.

Koch: You’re the first domino.

Walker: Yep. This is our moment.

Koch: Now what else could we do for you down there?

Walker: Well the biggest thing would be — and your guy on the ground (Americans For Prosperity President Tim Phillips) is probably seeing this, it would be well, two things. One, our members, originally the guy that got freaked out about all the bodies here — although I told him an interesting story, I was first elected county executive in Milwaukee of all places. First budget I put through was pretty bold, aggressive and the union went nuts on me and got all sorts of grief. But a couple of weeks later I’m at a Veterans Day parade and I’m going down the line and usually unless you’re a veteran or marching with a veterans’ group, politicians will get polite applause but nobody gets up. I come down the line, 40, 50 people in a row, hands up, thumbs up, you know cheering, screaming, yelling, “Way to go, hang in there, Walker.” And then after about 40, 50 people like that, there’s a guy flipping me off. This goes on 40, 50 [break in recording] … right thing, the people who know it’s right will cheer you, they’ll applaud you, they’ll run through a wall for you. And the people who don’t like you, they’re going to flip you off. But stop worrying about them because the other day there were 70,000 — probably two-thirds were against the bill, one-third were for — 70,000 people at the Capitol. All week there’s been fifteen to thirty thousand a day. But I remind all our lawmakers that there’s five and a half million people in this state. And just because a bunch of guys who can jump off of work because of their union work rules doesn’t mean the rest of the people in your district are with them. So the one thing in your question, the more groups that are encouraging people not just to show up but to call lawmakers and tell them to hang firm with the governor, the better. Because the more they get that assurance, the easier it is for them to vote yes. The other thing is more long term, and that is after this, you know the coming days and weeks and months ahead, particularly in some of these more swing areas, a lot of these guys are gonna need, they don’t actually need ads for them but they’re going to need a message put out reinforcing why this was a good thing to do for the economy and a good thing to do for the state. So the extent that that message is out over and over again is obviously a good thing.

Koch: Right, right. We’ll back you any way we can. But what we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.

Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that — because we thought about that. The problem — the, my only gut reaction to that would be, right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this. The teacher’s union did some polling and focus groups I think and found out that the public turned on them the minute they closed school down on them for a couple of days. The guys we’ve got left are largely from out of state and I keep dismissing it in all my press comments, saying ehh, they’re mostly from out of state. My only fear would be if there’s a ruckus caused is that would scare the public into thinking maybe the governor has to settle to avoid all these problems. You know, whereas I’ve said, hey, we can handle this, people can protest, this is Madison, you know, full of the ’60s liberals. Let ’em protest. It’s not going to affect us. And as long as we go back to our homes and the majority of people are telling us we’re doing the right thing, let ’em protest all they want. So that’s my gut reaction. I think it’s actually good if they’re constant, they’re noisy, but they’re quiet, nothing happens. Sooner or later the media stops finding them interesting.

Koch: Well, not the liberal bastards on MSNBC.

Walker: Oh yeah, but who watches that? I mean I went on “Morning Joe” this morning. I like it because I just like being combative with those guys, but, uh. You know they’re off the deep end.

Koch: Joe (Scarborough) — Joe’s a good guy. He’s one of us.

Walker: Yeah, he’s all right. He was fair to me. I mean, the rest of them were out there. Although I had fun, they had (New York Sen. Chuck) Schumer over from New York on ripping me, and then they had a little clip of a state senator hiding out ripping me, and it was almost too easy. I walked in, Joe asked me a question and I said, well, before I answer that, let me just point out the amazing irony of the fact that you’ve got a United States senator from New York, a senator who by the way is part of a team that can’t seem to balance the federal budget talking about my budget. At least he’s coming into work to talk about something, although it’s mine. And you’ve got one of these 14 state Senate Democrats who can’t even bother to show up and deal with the budget he’s elected to do something about. And uh, so that kind of tells you the whole story right there.

Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. You gotta love that Mika Brzezinski (co-host of “Morning Joe”); she’s a real piece of [expletive].

Walker: Oh yeah. A couple weeks ago, I’d known Joe before, but I was having dinner with Jim Sensenbrenner when I came into D.C. for a day to do an event and we’d gone over to do the “The Greta Show” and had dinner with Congressman Sensenbrenner and right next to us was the two of them and their guest was [Obama’s Senior Adviser David] Axelrod. I came over, I introduced myself.

Koch: That son of a [expletive]!

Walker: Yeah no kidding huh? Introduced myself and said I figured you probably knew who I was since your boss was campaigning against me but it’s always good to let them know you know what’s going on.

Koch: Well, good; good. It’s good catching up with ya’.

Walker: Yeah, well thanks. This is an exciting time. This is, I told my cabinet, I had a dinner the Sunday uh, excuse me, Monday right after the sixth. Came home from the Super Bowl where the Packers won, that Monday night I had all my cabinet over to the residence for dinner, talked about what we were going to do, how we were going to do it, we’d already kind of built plans up but it was kind of the last hurrah before we dropped the bomb. And I stood up and I pulled out a picture of Ronald Reagan, and I said, you know, this may seem a little melodramatic, but 30 years ago Ronald Reagan, whose 100th birthday we just celebrated the day before, had one of the most defining moments of his political career, not just his presidency, when he fired the air traffic controllers. And I said, to me that moment was more important than just for labor relations or even the federal budget. That was the first crack in the Berlin Wall in the fall of Communism because from that point forward the Soviets and the Communists knew that Ronald Reagan wasn’t a pushover. And I said, this may not have as broad of world applications, but in Wisconsin’s history — little did I know how big it would be nationally — Wisconsin’s history, I said, this is our moment. This is our time to change the course of history, and this is why it’s so important that they were all there. I had a cabinet meeting this morning, I reminded them of that. I said, for those who thought I was being melodramatic, you now know it was purely putting it in the right context.

Koch: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: Once you crush these bastards I’ll fly you out to Cali (California) and really show you a good time.

Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. Thanks for all the support in helping us move the cause forward, and we appreciate it, and we’re doing it the just and right thing for the right reasons and it’s all about getting our freedoms back.

Koch: Absolutely. And, you know, we have a little bit of a vested interest as well. [Laughs]

Walker: Well that’s just it, the bottom line is we’re gonna get the world moving here ’cause it’s the right thing to do.

Koch: Alright then.

Walker: Thanks a million!

Koch: Bye-bye!

Walker: Bye.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116751499.html

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 02:26 PM
It just amazes me the extent the left will go. There are no limits to their conniving tactics: flee the state, prank phone calls attempting to catch him saying something, etc. It's like they just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall hoping something will stick.

Remember, previously we were hearing how Walker was "in bed" with the Koch family, and now, here's another tactic that shows what was said previously about the relationship between Walker and the Koch family is completely false.

It has stuck poll after poll is showing clear majority support for the unions.

But we know Walker is Mrs Innocent, it is not like he campaigned on this issue, oh wait he didn't because he knew he wouldn't get elected.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 02:28 PM
If you read the full transcript, you can clearly see the fake Koch is attempting to set a trap all throughout the conversation and Walker never bites. He remains polite and cordial the whole time, and never strays from the exact same message he delivers publicly.

orange
02-23-2011, 02:30 PM
It just amazes me the extent the left will go. There are no limits to their conniving tactics: flee the state, prank phone calls attempting to catch him saying something, etc. It's like they just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall hoping something will stick.


http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/01/27/news/photos_stories/cropped/james_okeafe--300x300.jpg

:thumb:

The Rick
02-23-2011, 02:33 PM
It has stuck poll after poll is showing clear majority support for the unions.

But we know Walker is Mrs Innocent, it is not like he campaigned on this issue, oh wait he didn't because he knew he wouldn't get elected.
You mean this poll?

48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions

A sizable number of voters are following new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker’s showdown with unionized public employees in his state, and nearly half side with the governor.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters agree more with the Republican governor in his dispute with union workers. Thirty-eight percent (38%) agree more with the unionized public employees, while 14% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/february_2011/48_back_gop_governor_in_wisconsin_spat_38_side_with_unions

He absolutely campaigned on this. I should know, considering I live in Wisconsin (I live in Milwaukee County, where Walker was County Executive prior to being elected Governor) and followed the campaign closely. Did you?

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 02:40 PM
You mean this poll?


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/february_2011/48_back_gop_governor_in_wisconsin_spat_38_side_with_unions

He absolutely campaigned on this. I should know, considering I live in Wisconsin (I live in Milwaukee County, where Walker was County Executive prior to being elected Governor) and followed the campaign closely. Did you?

Both US Today and Gallup have released polls that show over 60% support for unions.

Well then you most be the only one. There is nothing on his website or public statements that suggested he wanted to bust unions.

From the Green Bay Press Gazette

State residents hardly can be surprised Walker wants to take drastic actions. He said as much in the campaign, but Walker didn't make clear his plan included limiting the rights of most public employees to collectively bargain. And he should have... This newspaper, which endorsed the governor in his race against Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, has a tradition of supporting fiscal conservatism on the local, state and national levels. We think Walker is on target in his intention to reduce a massive projected deficit. And frankly, it's difficult to imagine every public employee union in the state would have agreed to the changes Walker seeks.

AndChiefs
02-23-2011, 02:53 PM
After reading that transcript....

There is absolutely nothing to this story at all. Frankly, I actually have more respect for Walker after reading that then I did before. He appears to genuinely believe he's doing the right thing for the people and the state and is sticking to his guns because of that.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 02:57 PM
Both US Today and Gallup have released polls that show over 60% support for unions.

Well then you most be the only one. There is nothing on his website or public statements that suggested he wanted to bust unions.

From the Green Bay Press Gazette
Right here in black and white:
Weekly Standard: Why So Surprised About Walker?
by STEPHEN F. HAYES

Stephen F. Hayes is a senior writer at The Weekly Standard.

Andrew Sullivan caught a give-and-take between me and Juan Williams on Fox News on Monday night and raises a fair objection.

Williams criticized Wisconsin governor Scott Walker for his unwillingness to negotiate with unions on collective bargaining. I responded: "You shouldn't have compromise. Why would you compromise? Scott Walker ran on this. The Republicans ran on this. The Democrats criticized them in the campaign back before November is 2nd. They put up flyers. The teachers' unions went after them. This is what he ran on — he ran on changing the way public unions are dealt with and also the way the way they treat the budget. He is doing what he said."

In response, Sullivan writes: "Last night, I heard on Fox News from Stephen Hayes that Wisconsin governor Scott Walker had run on a platform to end collective bargaining rights for public sector unions. I can find no evidence of this in the public record. It isn't on his campaign platform where he deals with 'government spending and reform'. It's clear that he vowed to slash pay and benefits for public sector unions...But not end their collective bargaining rights on everything but wages."

And last night, Politifact Wisconsin, published by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, weighed in and rated Walker's claims that he campaigned on these changes as "false."

My claim, however, was probably too vague, especially in the context of the argument Williams was making. Walker certainly ran on cutting the deficit and requiring concessions from public employees to help him. And anyone familiar with Walker's efforts to balance budgets as Milwaukee county executive would understand that collective bargaining requirements made his task nearly impossible. But as Sullivan and Politifact point out, Walker's campaign materials, which were quite detailed, did not highlight the specific proposal on collective bargaining (eliminating it for everything but wages) in the budget repair bill.

That said, it's simply not accurate to rate Walker's claim that he campaigned on what he is now doing as "false." In fact, he did campaign on much of what he is now doing. And while the specific collective bargaining proposal in the budget repair bill was not a regular line in his stump speech, it was also no secret that he would make significant changes to Wisconsin's collective bargaining rules.

The Politifact/Journal Sentinel rating suggests otherwise. "It seemed to us like the first public hint Walker gave that he was considering eliminating many union bargaining rights was at a Dec. 7, 2010 Milwaukee Press Club forum, some four weeks after the election."

Really? That claim is undermined by the paper's own reporting. On August 30, the Journal Sentinel ran an article on plans by Walker and Milwaukee mayor Tom Barrett, his Democratic opponent, to save the state money by revamping health insurance plans for public employees. The reporter spoke to Ryan Murray, a top policy adviser for the Walker campaign, who explained the candidate's plan. "The way the proposal would work is we would take the choice out of the collective bargaining process," Murray said.

So does taking the choice out of the collective bargaining process mean ending it for health care? The reporter certainly seemed to think so. "[Murray] said school districts often have some of the most expensive health benefits in Wisconsin and could receive cheaper insurance through the state if they didn't have to negotiate with unions about who would insure their members." (Emphasis added.)

What was clear to the reporter was also clear to the teachers' unions. "Our members oppose taking away their rights to collective bargaining, so they would definitely raise their voices against it," said Christina Brey, a spokesman for the Wisconsin Education Association Council, the union leading protests today. (Emphasis added.)

Although the Politifact/Journal Sentinel evaluation of Walker's claims makes reference to this story, the paper failed to include this rather significant quote in its write up.

So a top Walker adviser made an on-the-record comment that both a reporter and a union representative understood as meaning an end to collective bargaining. And another teachers' union, the American Federation of Teachers, found Murray's comment so threatening that they included it in a flyer warning teachers to vote against Walker who, they claimed, wanted to "void parts of labor contracts."

The paper followed up on Sept. 13:

Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker, a Republican gubernatorial candidate, and Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, the Democratic candidate, each have proposals to lower health benefit costs.

Walker wants to make it easier for school districts and local governments to buy insurance through a state-run health benefits program. Barrett would require local governments to insure their workers through a similar program, and he is interested in having schools eventually do the same.

How much money the proposals would save is a question. But both would require legislation. That's because current state law makes it difficult if not impossible to make any changes in health benefits without the approval of the unions that represent government workers. Under state law, health benefits that are part of an employee's total compensation are subject to collective bargaining.

So Walker's campaign proposal to lower costs by changing the health care benefits of public employees would "require legislation" because the law "makes it difficult if not impossible to make any changes" outside of the collective bargaining process.

Sounds like precisely what Walker is doing now, no?

What's more, as Milwaukee county executive, Walker used every legal means he could to circumvent collective bargaining procedures. In a Journal-Sentinel article that ran on October 29, 2010, just three days before the election, Richard Abelson, head of the local AFSCME chapter, accused Walker then of doing as county executive what he's trying to do as governor. "The premise is still that they want to bypass collective bargaining and adopt wages and working conditions through the budget process."

So contrary to the claims of Politifact/Journal-Sentinel, Walker's press conference on Dec. 7 was not the "first public hint" that he would seek to end some public employee union collective bargaining. (And the paper didn't report it as a mere hint, suggesting that Walker was considering "essentially abolishing state employee unions" and that he "is following the path of other fiscally conservative governors, such as Indiana Republican Mitch Daniels, who used an executive order to rescind collective bargaining and union settlements for state employees on his first day in office in 2005.") If Walker did not campaign on the specific collective bargaining proposal in his budget repair bill, it was no secret that Walker would be proposing dramatic changes to the state's relationship with its employees — changes that the paper's own reporting made clear would include collective bargaining.

As AFSCME's Abelson said in the Journal-Sentinel's article on that very press conference: "His union-busting attitude shouldn't surprise anybody."
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/23/133995779/weekly-standard-why-so-surprised-about-walker

orange
02-23-2011, 02:57 PM
After reading that transcript....

There is absolutely nothing to this story at all.

I wonder if the 14 Democrats-on-the-lam will read it that way.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 02:58 PM
After reading that transcript....

There is absolutely nothing to this story at all. Frankly, I actually have more respect for Walker after reading that then I did before. He appears to genuinely believe he's doing the right thing for the people and the state and is sticking to his guns because of that.
:thumb:

AndChiefs
02-23-2011, 03:02 PM
I wonder if the 14 Democrats-on-the-lam will read it that way.

Way to not pay attention to what I was saying at all. They may not agree with what he's doing but they at least know he's being honest with them now. What he has said publicly appears to be corroborated in this "private" conversation. "What you see is what you get"

Of course, feel free to point out something in this conversation that would surprise the Democrats and let me know.

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 03:05 PM
Right here in black and white:

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/23/133995779/weekly-standard-why-so-surprised-about-walker

So one adviser speaking is him campaigning on busting unions? Really?

orange
02-23-2011, 03:11 PM
Way to not pay attention to what I was saying at all. They may not agree with what he's doing but they at least know he's being honest with them now. What he has said publicly appears to be corroborated in this "private" conversation. "What you see is what you get"

Of course, feel free to point out something in this conversation that would surprise the Democrats and let me know.


How about four things?

The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk — it’s a little procedural thing here, but — can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted —

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: — into your checking account and instead, you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them — which we just loved — to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.

...


Secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next, we’ll probably announce in the next day or two — we’ve been working with our Republican leaders in the Legislature — we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state. We think there’s at a minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.

...

The other thing is I’ve got layoff notices ready, we put out the at-risk notices, we’ll announce Thursday, they’ll go out early next week and we’ll probably get five to six thousand state workers will get at-risk notices for layoffs. We might ratchet that up a little bit too.

...

An interesting idea that was brought up to me this morning by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow is putting out an appeal to the Democrat leader that I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the Assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders — talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn — but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it to come back in the room to talk to me, but they all have to go back there. The reason is — we’re verifying it this afternoon — but legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have a quorum because they started out that way. So we’re double checking that

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 03:16 PM
How about four things?

The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk — it’s a little procedural thing here, but — can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted —

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: — into your checking account and instead, you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them — which we just loved — to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.

...


Secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next, we’ll probably announce in the next day or two — we’ve been working with our Republican leaders in the Legislature — we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state. We think there’s at a minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.

...

The other thing is I’ve got layoff notices ready, we put out the at-risk notices, we’ll announce Thursday, they’ll go out early next week and we’ll probably get five to six thousand state workers will get at-risk notices for layoffs. We might ratchet that up a little bit too.

...

An interesting idea that was brought up to me this morning by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow is putting out an appeal to the Democrat leader that I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the Assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders — talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn — but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it to come back in the room to talk to me, but they all have to go back there. The reason is — we’re verifying it this afternoon — but legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have a quorum because they started out that way. So we’re double checking that

Playing hardball; the American way.

orange
02-23-2011, 03:17 PM
Playing hardball; the American way.

Certainly. Which leads us back to...

I wonder if the 14 Democrats-on-the-lam will read it that way.

Shake AndChiefs' foot and wake him up.

AndChiefs
02-23-2011, 03:22 PM
How about four things?

The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk — it’s a little procedural thing here, but — can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted —

Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: — into your checking account and instead, you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them — which we just loved — to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.

...


Secondly, one of the things we’re looking at next, we’ll probably announce in the next day or two — we’ve been working with our Republican leaders in the Legislature — we’re still waiting on an opinion to see if the unions have been paying to put these guys up out of state. We think there’s at a minimum an ethics violation if not an outright felony.

...

The other thing is I’ve got layoff notices ready, we put out the at-risk notices, we’ll announce Thursday, they’ll go out early next week and we’ll probably get five to six thousand state workers will get at-risk notices for layoffs. We might ratchet that up a little bit too.

...

An interesting idea that was brought up to me this morning by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow is putting out an appeal to the Democrat leader that I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the Assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders — talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn — but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it to come back in the room to talk to me, but they all have to go back there. The reason is — we’re verifying it this afternoon — but legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have a quorum because they started out that way. So we’re double checking that

Let's see here...

#1: I don't expect to continue to get paid while I'm not working. Do you?

#2: They had better be paying for this out of pocket. If I'm working on a big project for say...Nike...that's about completed (and no one else can do) and I decide to leave town because I disagree with the way the project is going that's my prerogative. If Adida's, who is also working on this project, pays me to leave town it is probably illegal and should be investigated.

#3: We've all known layoffs are coming if they don't come to an agreement. Is this really going to surprise anyone?

#4: This is probably the only legitimate point you brought up. However, it's their job to be in session representing their constituents. Make your arguments. Show your outrage. Make sure everyone knows where you stand. Eventually you have to vote on the legislation. Live to fight another day.

jettio
02-23-2011, 03:22 PM
I have made a couple of posts in other threads, where I asked for evidence that union-busting was a topic that Walker highlighted in his election campaign.

Seems like a lot of his backers were making that claim that he "campaigned on this issue" but nobody could back that with examples of his campaign ads or materials where he highlighted union-busting.

He did not "campaign on this issue" He is overreaching and now he is accepting calls from "David Koch" and telling that impostor the inside dope that he is not telling the public.

This guy Walker is just a dick that is getting called out for doing a dick move because he imagines he has waded into some historical moment where he gets the be the star by having the courage to be a dick.

Sometimes an ideological prick is nothing but an ideological prick.

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 03:22 PM
Playing hardball; the American way.

So then you have no problem with Dems ramming through Obamacare.

Good to know. :thumb:

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 03:23 PM
Certainly. Which leads us back to...how they got the healthcare bill passed



:p

AndChiefs
02-23-2011, 03:27 PM
:p

lol, I was expecting him to bring that up in his next post anyways so I'll just address it now. The republicans did all they could to avoid passing that bill and got it watered down. I don't agree with a lot of what they did but at least they showed up at work. Hardball just goes to alienate both sides and makes reaching an amicable deal less and less likely.

Walker be trying to work with the Democrats on this bill and shouldn't be so hard-nosed about it. However, at least he actually believes what he's saying unlike a lot of other politicians.

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 03:27 PM
So then you have no problem with Dems ramming through Obamacare.

Good to know. :thumb:

Oops, saw this a little late.

Have a problem with it; sure...but I'm tired of conservatives being expected to take the high road, liberals seldomly doing so, and then hear the bitching when we do don't either. Taking the high road we're seldomly if ever rewarded for by the left or the media.

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 03:28 PM
lol, I was expecting him to bring that up in his next post anyways so I'll just address it now. The republicans did all they could to avoid passing that bill and got it watered down. I don't agree with a lot of what they did but at least they showed up at work. Hardball just goes to alienate both sides and makes reaching an amicable deal less and less likely.

Walker be trying to work with the Democrats on this bill and shouldn't be so hard-nosed about it. However, at least he actually believes what he's saying unlike a lot of other politicians.

Them pulling this B.S. and leaving town hardened his stance I'm sure...so who's really being hard-nosed?

Plus shipping in all the union people, all the hub-bub...who wouldn't react like that?

orange
02-23-2011, 03:29 PM
I wonder if the 14 Democrats-on-the-lam will read it that way.

Wisconsin Democrat: Scott Walker Exposed As 'Cocky' And 'Gullible,' Has Pushed Us Away From Negotiations

First Posted: 02/23/11 01:25 PM Updated: 02/23/11 01:37 PM

WASHINGTON -- A member of the crew of 14 Democratic state senators who fled Wisconsin to prevent passage of a sharp anti-union measure, said a revealing prank phone call involving Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has strengthened the resolve of those breaking the quorum and pushed them even further away from the negotiating table.

State Sen. Chris Larson, in a brief phone interview before a meeting with his colleagues, called Walker "cocky" and "gullible" for believing that David Koch, the billionaire conservative bankroller, would call him up to discuss political tactics.

On a tactical level, however, he called the prank -- pulled by the website Buffalo Beast -- a major blunder on Walker's behalf. "He just gave it all away right there," Larson insisted.

In particular, Larson pointed to a portion of the roughly 20-minute call in which the governor talked about getting the senate Democrats back to the state by promising to hold negotiations, only to quickly pass the anti-union legislation while a quorum was reached.

"The part that really had my eyebrows up is the idea that he would trick us to come back for a compromise and use that as an excuse for passing it," said Larson. "He is such a hypocrite because he is saying what we are doing is an affront to democracy and then he is going to trick us into coming back?"

"To anyone who was thinking, 'Well they wouldn't try anything shady,' this puts an end to that idea," he added.

One of the issues confronting those Democrats who have fled to Illinois is to what extent they can enter into good-faith negotiations to end the current standoff, either by putting a sunset provision on eliminating collective bargaining rights for public sector unions or by eliminating the issue altogether. Some of the 14, said Larson, hold the notion (quaint, but laudable) that lawmakers should be "collegial" and play by the rules.

To a certain extent we should do that," the senator added. "But if someone is willing to do something like this, it throws this idea out the window ... A lot of the Republicans who are rubber-stamping [Walker's] legislation have to be seeing him as a liability at this point."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/wis-democrat-walker-exposed-as-cocky-gullible_n_827165.html

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 03:32 PM
Wisconsin Democrat: Scott Walker Exposed As 'Cocky' And 'Gullible,' Has Pushed Us Away From Negotiations

First Posted: 02/23/11 01:25 PM Updated: 02/23/11 01:37 PM

WASHINGTON -- A member of the crew of 14 Democratic state senators who fled Wisconsin to prevent passage of a sharp anti-union measure, said a revealing prank phone call involving Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has strengthened the resolve of those breaking the quorum and pushed them even further away from the negotiating table.

State Sen. Chris Larson, in a brief phone interview before a meeting with his colleagues, called Walker "cocky" and "gullible" for believing that David Koch, the billionaire conservative bankroller, would call him up to discuss political tactics.

On a tactical level, however, he called the prank -- pulled by the website Buffalo Beast -- a major blunder on Walker's behalf. "He just gave it all away right there," Larson insisted.

In particular, Larson pointed to a portion of the roughly 20-minute call in which the governor talked about getting the senate Democrats back to the state by promising to hold negotiations, only to quickly pass the anti-union legislation while a quorum was reached.

"The part that really had my eyebrows up is the idea that he would trick us to come back for a compromise and use that as an excuse for passing it," said Larson. "He is such a hypocrite because he is saying what we are doing is an affront to democracy and then he is going to trick us into coming back?"

"To anyone who was thinking, 'Well they wouldn't try anything shady,' this puts an end to that idea," he added.

One of the issues confronting those Democrats who have fled to Illinois is to what extent they can enter into good-faith negotiations to end the current standoff, either by putting a sunset provision on eliminating collective bargaining rights for public sector unions or by eliminating the issue altogether. Some of the 14, said Larson, hold the notion (quaint, but laudable) that lawmakers should be "collegial" and play by the rules.

To a certain extent we should do that," the senator added. "But if someone is willing to do something like this, it throws this idea out the window ... A lot of the Republicans who are rubber-stamping [Walker's] legislation have to be seeing him as a liability at this point."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/wis-democrat-walker-exposed-as-cocky-gullible_n_827165.html

Yeah, "We were all set to work with this guy until this happened". Laughable.

AndChiefs
02-23-2011, 03:33 PM
Them pulling this B.S. and leaving town hardened his stance I'm sure...so who's really being hard-nosed?

Plus shipping in all the union people, all the hub-bub...who wouldn't react like that?

True, it's certainly not one-sided. And I'm not even going to pretend that the politics of the last few years probably hasn't had an influence on this situation. Unfortunately, most talk of "civility" is just that.

It still could have been handled better.

AndChiefs
02-23-2011, 03:35 PM
Wisconsin Democrat: Scott Walker Exposed As 'Cocky' And 'Gullible,' Has Pushed Us Away From Negotiations

First Posted: 02/23/11 01:25 PM Updated: 02/23/11 01:37 PM

WASHINGTON -- A member of the crew of 14 Democratic state senators who fled Wisconsin to prevent passage of a sharp anti-union measure, said a revealing prank phone call involving Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has strengthened the resolve of those breaking the quorum and pushed them even further away from the negotiating table.

State Sen. Chris Larson, in a brief phone interview before a meeting with his colleagues, called Walker "cocky" and "gullible" for believing that David Koch, the billionaire conservative bankroller, would call him up to discuss political tactics.

On a tactical level, however, he called the prank -- pulled by the website Buffalo Beast -- a major blunder on Walker's behalf. "He just gave it all away right there," Larson insisted.

In particular, Larson pointed to a portion of the roughly 20-minute call in which the governor talked about getting the senate Democrats back to the state by promising to hold negotiations, only to quickly pass the anti-union legislation while a quorum was reached.

"The part that really had my eyebrows up is the idea that he would trick us to come back for a compromise and use that as an excuse for passing it," said Larson. "He is such a hypocrite because he is saying what we are doing is an affront to democracy and then he is going to trick us into coming back?"

"To anyone who was thinking, 'Well they wouldn't try anything shady,' this puts an end to that idea," he added.

One of the issues confronting those Democrats who have fled to Illinois is to what extent they can enter into good-faith negotiations to end the current standoff, either by putting a sunset provision on eliminating collective bargaining rights for public sector unions or by eliminating the issue altogether. Some of the 14, said Larson, hold the notion (quaint, but laudable) that lawmakers should be "collegial" and play by the rules.

To a certain extent we should do that," the senator added. "But if someone is willing to do something like this, it throws this idea out the window ... A lot of the Republicans who are rubber-stamping [Walker's] legislation have to be seeing him as a liability at this point."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/wis-democrat-walker-exposed-as-cocky-gullible_n_827165.html

Odd that they should focus on the only point I said was legitimate huh?

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 03:37 PM
Oops, saw this a little late.

Have a problem with it; sure...but I'm tired of conservatives being expected to take the high road, liberals seldomly doing so, and then hear the bitching when we do don't either. Taking the high road we're seldomly if ever rewarded for by the left or the media.

I expect both sides to take the high road but rarely does that ever happen. Both sides are guilty of doing it.

orange
02-23-2011, 03:40 PM
Odd that they should focus on the only point I said was legitimate huh?

So I mention a bull and three calves and you think you're special because you identified the bull? :spock:

"In particular, Larson pointed to a portion of the roughly 20-minute call..." or does that mean "exclusively" in Middle of Nowhere, NE?

AndChiefs
02-23-2011, 03:42 PM
So I mention a bull and three calves and you think you're special because you identified the bull? :spock:

I also described why they should ignore it and do their job.

jettio
02-23-2011, 03:44 PM
Yeah, "We were all set to work with this guy until this happened". Laughable.

Man, you must not have any ability to figure out how people make decisions.

This dude Walker was admittedly researching a way to "trick" these folks and then bragging about it to "David Koch."

Walker's loose lips sank his ship because now every one of his constituents know that he plays games and tricks.

If Walker starts laying-off people right away, people in Wisconsin will now that it is not really necessary just his next strategic move in the game that he is playing.

Chief Henry
02-23-2011, 03:47 PM
It just amazes me the extent the left will go. There are no limits to their conniving tactics: flee the state, prank phone calls attempting to catch him saying something, etc. It's like they just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall hoping something will stick.

Remember, previously we were hearing how Walker was "in bed" with the Koch family, and now, here's another tactic that shows what was said previously about the relationship between Walker and the Koch family is completely false.


Its been happening for a long time.

ClevelandBronco
02-23-2011, 04:17 PM
Hey, liberals. Fuck you. That is all.

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 04:39 PM
Man, you must not have any ability to figure out how people make decisions.

This dude Walker was admittedly researching a way to "trick" these folks and then bragging about it to "David Koch."

Walker's loose lips sank his ship because now every one of his constituents know that he plays games and tricks.

If Walker starts laying-off people right away, people in Wisconsin will now that it is not really necessary just his next strategic move in the game that he is playing.

Well I'm sure you're amazing at figuring people out.

I believe his constituency knows they're facing bankruptcy and it's time to get some changes made. If he ruffles a few liberal feathers, so be it...I would hope the general public sees the writing on the wall about what's happening to our country and what our future holds if we don't get a grip on things.

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 04:41 PM
I expect both sides to take the high road but rarely does that ever happen. Both sides are guilty of doing it.

Yeah, but where's the mainstream media outrage at the dems hitting the short bus and heading out of town? Broken record, but if Republicans had pulled that little stunt, oh my!

Bwana
02-23-2011, 04:50 PM
Jesus :shake:

Make a mountain out of a mole hill much?

http://img.shoppingnexus.com/products/kotex-lightdays-absorbent-liners-max-protection-fresh-dry1.jpg

Saul Good
02-23-2011, 04:56 PM
Both US Today and Gallup have released polls that show over 60% support for unions.

Well then you most be the only one. There is nothing on his website or public statements that suggested he wanted to bust unions.

From the Green Bay Press Gazette
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.cfm?ID=1950

Released: February 22, 2011

Zogby Interactive: Majorities Say States Can Cut Employee Salaries & Void Collective Bargaining Agreements

UTICA, New York - Two-thirds of likely voters agree that state legislatures have the authority to cut state employee salaries and 52% agree they can void collective bargaining agreements to reduce spending.

Voiding collective bargaining agreements is also seen as preferable to continuing to pay state employees at current levels or layoffs of state workers in order to reduce spending and control deficits.

These results come from a Zogby Interactive poll conducted from Feb. 18-21, 2011.
Do you agree or disagree with State legislatures having the authority to cut state employee salaries in an effort to reduce spending?

Released: February 22, 2011
Yes: 67%
No: 31%

Saul Good
02-23-2011, 04:58 PM
MADISON, Wis. — Americans strongly oppose laws taking away the collective bargaining power of public employee unions, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll. The poll found 61% would oppose a law in their state similar to such a proposal in Wisconsin, compared with 33% who would favor such a law.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-22-poll-public-unions-wisconsin_N.htm

The conclusion doesn't necessarily match the question:

Q. Would you favor or oppose a law in your state taking away some collective bargaining rights of most public unions, including the state teachers union?

Saul Good
02-23-2011, 05:05 PM
Both US Today and Gallup have released polls that show over 60% support for unions.

They both did? Wow! That's impressive. I'll throw a third poll into the mix:

1. USA Today
2. Gallup
3. USA Today/Gallup

***SPOILER ALERT***
It's the same poll.

jettio
02-23-2011, 05:22 PM
Well I'm sure you're amazing at figuring people out.

I believe his constituency knows they're facing bankruptcy and it's time to get some changes made. If he ruffles a few liberal feathers, so be it...I would hope the general public sees the writing on the wall about what's happening to our country and what our future holds if we don't get a grip on things.

A lot of voters are independent and when they see a guy step in dogsh*t, they can figure out that the guy's feet stink.

You might rationalize all you like because you agree with the guy, but he showed his hand and now people know that he will blindly take a call from "David Koch" and brag to that guy about the tricks and traps he plans to set.

Seems like he could get the fiscal plan he wants by calling off his union-busting dogs, now it is pretty clear that he is trying to fulfil his ideological ambitions and willing to be fake about it.

His constituents know that it is not about "bankruptcy" it is about this guy's delusions of grandeur and his willingness to trick people to get his way.

Saul Good
02-23-2011, 05:33 PM
His constituents know that it is not about "bankruptcy" it is about this guy's delusions of grandeur and his willingness to trick people to get his way.

Says the guy supporting the Democrats leaving the state in order to thwart the political process.

PunkinDrublic
02-23-2011, 05:46 PM
Sam Stein

HuffPost Reporting

stein@huffingtonpost.com
GET UPDATES FROM Sam


Scott Walker's Prank Caller: I Was Going To Pretend To Be Mubarak First

First Posted: 02/23/11 12:57 PM Updated: 02/23/11 12:57 PM


WASHINGTON -- The man who pretended to be conservative bankroller David Koch on a prank phone call with Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) said Wednesday that he originally planned to pose as exiled Egypt President Hosni Mubarak but couldn't perfect the voice.

Ian Murphy, the editor of the Buffalo Beast, told The Huffington Post in an interview that he was "shocked" at how easy it was to get Walker, currently the nation's most-talked-about governor, on the phone merely by pretending to be a billionaire donor.

"Fifteen minutes in, I wanted to almost stop it and say, 'Are you so dumb, I'm not David Koch. How can your staff be so incompetent and how could I get on the phone with you so easily,'" Murphy said, barely suppressing his glee. "But I didn't."

Instead, Murphy spent an additional five minutes talking to Walker about a host of outlandish proposals and takes on the protests that have erupted around the governor's anti-union budget legislation. Walker's office insists that he said nothing on the phone with Murphy that he wouldn't have said in public, but the governor pitched the Koch impersonator some bizarre plans.

Walker said he wanted to ostensibly trick Democratic lawmakers to return to Wisconsin so that he could call a quorum and quickly pass his bill to strip collective-bargaining rights from the state's public-employee unions. He also talked openly about putting plants in the crowd of protesters to sway public opinion against their favor.

"He didn't do it because it was unethical, but because it didn't work," Murphy said. "People ask me what was the smoking gun. That's what I'm saying."

How the call came to happen provides a window of sorts into how even the most audacious forms of guerrilla journalism -- if a prank call can be called that -- can affect political debates. Murphy said he came across a Huffington Post article quoting a Democratic state Senator complaining that Walker wouldn't take his calls.

"I just wondered ... who could get ahold of him," Murphy said.

After deciding not to call as Mubarak, Murphy said he was looking to pose as someone whose voice was "more generic." He settled on Koch and practiced imitating the billionaire's voice with the help of some YouTube videos.

Perfection, however, was elusive. Instead, Murphy just spoke with a bit more bass, with the idea of playing the part of a Koch caricature. "I just envisioned him saying 'beautiful, beautiful' a lot, and things like 'crush those union bastards,'" he said.

Calling the phone number on the governor's website, he managed to talk his way onto the line with Walker's chief of staff, via Skype. After explaining that Walker couldn't call him back because his "maid" threw his phone in the washing machine and he'd have her "deported" but she made "next to nothing," Murphy waited for 10 minutes on the phone -- a tell in itself, he noted: "You don't expect David Koch to wait 10 minutes on the phone."

Nonetheless, Walker came on. "I kind of just let him talk. I was in shock," Murphy said.

So too, apparently, was the governor. As Murphy noted, Walker seemed "thrilled" to talk to "Koch." The impression left was that the billionaire backer and the upstart governor really hadn't rubbed elbows before.

"That might be one downside of this thing, it shows that they don't have the intimate relationship people imagined," Murphy said. "It's henchmen passing envelopes back and forth and the billionaire never actually talks to the politician."

But Murphy said took another key lesson away from the prank. "If you are David Koch, you can get anyone on the phone," he said, "period."



ROFL I'm starting to believe Walker and his staff would be dumb enough to believe Mubarak would call.

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 05:50 PM
They both did? Wow! That's impressive. I'll throw a third poll into the mix:

1. USA Today
2. Gallup
3. USA Today/Gallup

***SPOILER ALERT***
It's the same poll.

Thanks Saul. My bad I thought Gallup had released their own daily type poll.

stevieray
02-23-2011, 06:47 PM
Says the guy supporting the Democrats leaving the state in order to thwart the political process.

...if Republicans had left the state, the usual suspects would be pissing themselves.

jettio
02-23-2011, 07:40 PM
Says the guy supporting the Democrats leaving the state in order to thwart the political process.

I do not remember posting anything supporting that move. Those folks are responsible for their own actions. I do not live in Wisconsin.

As someone assessing the situation from Missouri, I have posted from the beginning that it looks to me like this governor is overreaching and trying to exaggerate a budget crisis to accomplish his goal of busting a union for ideological reasons and not for practical reasons.

As we learn more about this Walker and his delusions of grandeur, looks like I was right.

Saul Good
02-23-2011, 07:42 PM
I do not remember posting anything supporting that move. Those folks are responsible for their own actions. I do not live in Wisconsin.

As someone assessing the situation from Missouri, I have posted from the beginning that it looks to me like this governor is overreaching and trying to exaggerate a budget crisis to accomplish his goal of busting a union for ideological reasons and not for practical reasons.

As we learn more about this Walker and his delusions of grandeur, looks like I was right.

I completely fail to see what Walker did wrong, even during this call.

jettio
02-23-2011, 07:46 PM
I completely fail to see what Walker did wrong, even during this call.

Why don't you give him a call and tell him that? He would love to hear from you.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 08:44 PM
I do not remember posting anything supporting that move. Those folks are responsible for their own actions. I do not live in Wisconsin.

As someone assessing the situation from Missouri, I have posted from the beginning that it looks to me like this governor is overreaching and trying to exaggerate a budget crisis to accomplish his goal of busting a union for ideological reasons and not for practical reasons.

As we learn more about this Walker and his delusions of grandeur, looks like I was right.
The whole reason for this move against public employee unions is because the other part of his budget rescue bill will be to cut a bunch of aid to municipal and county governments, so he knows that those municipalities and counties are going to have their own shortfalls as a result. That means they too are going to have to ask for concessions from their own employees. As a former county executive, Walker knows first hand how difficult that's going to be if they have to bargain on benefits. Instead of just worrying about his own problems and leaving municipal and county governments high and dry, he's attempting to give them the tools they need to cut their own costs when the state funding dries up.

dirk digler
02-23-2011, 08:59 PM
Pretty good take


Gonzo journalist Ian Murphy noticed one of Wisconsin's Senate Democrats complaining that Gov. Scott Walker was impossible to reach on the phone. So Murphy came up with a prank call: He posed as right-wing financier David Koch and called Walker's receptionist. Shortly thereafter, he was on the phone with the governor himself. You can listen to the conversation here (http://www.buffalobeast.com/?p=5045) -- though the site seems overloaded by the traffic -- or read Adam Weinstein's summary here (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/scott-walker-koch-brother-crank-call-wisconsin). Walker's office has confirmed the call was real.

To Walker's credit, he doesn't say anything incriminating. When Murphy/Koch offers to plant demonstrators, Walker declines. The worst you can say is that when Murphy/Koch makes a lewd comment about Mika Brzezinski, Walker doesn't challenge him on it. But that portion reads to me as Walker politely grunting in response to an odd provocation. I imagine politicians are pretty good at gently moving the conversation along when their contributors say crazy things.

But if the transcript of the conversation is unexceptional, the fact of it is lethal. The state's Democratic senators can't get Walker on the phone, but someone can call the governor's front desk, identify themselves as David Koch, and then speak with both the governor and his chief of staff? That's where you see the access and power that major corporations and wealthy contributors will have in a Walker administration, and why so many in Wisconsin are reluctant to see the only major interest group representing workers taken out of the game.

The critique many conservatives have made of public-sector unions is that they both negotiate with and fund politicians. It's a conflict of interest. Well, so too do corporations, and wealthy individuals. That's why Murphy -- posing as Koch -- was able to get through to Walker so quickly. And it shows what Walker is really interested in here: He is not opposed, in principle, to powerful interest groups having the ear of the politicians they depend on, and who depend on them. He just wants those interest groups to be the conservative interest groups that fund him, and that he depends on.

jettio
02-23-2011, 09:04 PM
The whole reason for this move against public employee unions is because the other part of his budget rescue bill will be to cut a bunch of aid to municipal and county governments, so he knows that those municipalities and counties are going to have their own shortfalls as a result. That means they too are going to have to ask for concessions from their own employees. As a former county executive, Walker knows first hand how difficult that's going to be if they have to bargain on benefits. Instead of just worrying about his own problems and leaving municipal and county governments high and dry, he's attempting to give them the tools they need to cut their own costs when the state funding dries up.

County and municipal governments can handle their business without having to bust up unions.

You need to stop believing horsehsh*t and lying to people.

Where did the state funding go? Is Wisconsin expecting permanent recession with that dickhead Walker in charge? What happens when the economy rebounds and the revenue collection rebounds also?

You can't figure out that he is trying to bust up unions for ideological reasons. Even Walker knows that he is against Unions period. Why can't you figure that out?

mikey23545
02-23-2011, 09:09 PM
INDIANAPOLIS – The Society of Professional Journalists, through its Ethics Committee, strongly condemns the actions of an alternative online outlet this week when an editor lied and posed as a financial backer in a recorded phone call with Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker.

Ian Murphy, editor of the Buffalo Beast, represented himself as billionaire businessman and conservative activist David Koch, a financial supporter of Gov. Scott Walker, so that he could gain access to the governor by phone. He spoke with the governor under these false pretenses. Read a full account from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

During the phone call, Murphy, as Koch, baited the governor with questions about liberals in the media and the Democrats who have vacated the statehouse to prevent a vote on a collective bargaining bill. Near the end of the call, Murphy tells the governor that once Walker crushes the unions and their Democratic base, he (as the pretend Koch) will fly Walker to California and “really show you a good time.”

Walker responded: “All right. That would be outstanding.”

“This tactic and the deception used to gain this information violate the highest levels of journalism ethics,” said SPJ Ethics Committee Chairman Kevin Z. Smith. “To lie to a source about your identity and then to bait that source into making comments that are inflammatory is inexcusable and has no place in journalism.”

The Buffalo Beast website was down as of Wednesday afternoon.

Though the Buffalo Beast purports to be an alternative news site with heavily slanted views that are neither fair nor objective, the fact remains that this interview was underhanded and unethical. Credible news organizations should be cautious about how they report this already widely reported story, and must realize that the information was obtained in a grossly inappropriate manner according to longstanding tenets of journalism.

SPJ’s Code of Ethics clearly states that journalists should “be honest, fair and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting news.”

The Code also says to avoid “undercover or other surreptitious methods of gathering information except when traditional open methods will not yield information vital to the public.”

SPJ President Hagit Limor said what happened represents “a new low” for anyone claiming to be a journalist. “This may be how Hollywood portrays reporters, but no journalist worth his salt ever would misrepresent his name and affiliation when seeking an interview. Murphy should be ashamed not only of his actions but of besmirching our profession by acting so shamelessly.”

Journalists and news organizations should take note to carefully explain how this information was obtained and take measures not to engage in similar unethical practices.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 09:12 PM
Pretty good take


Gonzo journalist Ian Murphy noticed one of Wisconsin's Senate Democrats complaining that Gov. Scott Walker was impossible to reach on the phone. So Murphy came up with a prank call: He posed as right-wing financier David Koch and called Walker's receptionist. Shortly thereafter, he was on the phone with the governor himself. You can listen to the conversation here (http://www.buffalobeast.com/?p=5045) -- though the site seems overloaded by the traffic -- or read Adam Weinstein's summary here (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/scott-walker-koch-brother-crank-call-wisconsin). Walker's office has confirmed the call was real.

To Walker's credit, he doesn't say anything incriminating. When Murphy/Koch offers to plant demonstrators, Walker declines. The worst you can say is that when Murphy/Koch makes a lewd comment about Mika Brzezinski, Walker doesn't challenge him on it. But that portion reads to me as Walker politely grunting in response to an odd provocation. I imagine politicians are pretty good at gently moving the conversation along when their contributors say crazy things.

But if the transcript of the conversation is unexceptional, the fact of it is lethal. The state's Democratic senators can't get Walker on the phone, but someone can call the governor's front desk, identify themselves as David Koch, and then speak with both the governor and his chief of staff? That's where you see the access and power that major corporations and wealthy contributors will have in a Walker administration, and why so many in Wisconsin are reluctant to see the only major interest group representing workers taken out of the game.

The critique many conservatives have made of public-sector unions is that they both negotiate with and fund politicians. It's a conflict of interest. Well, so too do corporations, and wealthy individuals. That's why Murphy -- posing as Koch -- was able to get through to Walker so quickly. And it shows what Walker is really interested in here: He is not opposed, in principle, to powerful interest groups having the ear of the politicians they depend on, and who depend on them. He just wants those interest groups to be the conservative interest groups that fund him, and that he depends on.
I pretty much agree (see, we can agree on stuff sometimes :) ). I was thrilled to hear that Walker didn't stray from the message he's been delivering publically. While I don't think that there was anything sinister on his part in taking a call from a well known Republican supporter, I was disappointed that he was allowed to be duped so easily. Someone on his staff should be put through the ringer. :shake:

The Rick
02-23-2011, 09:43 PM
County and municipal governments can handle their business without having to bust up unions.

You need to stop believing horsehsh*t and lying to people.

Where did the state funding go? Is Wisconsin expecting permanent recession with that dickhead Walker in charge? What happens when the economy rebounds and the revenue collection rebounds also?

You can't figure out that he is trying to bust up unions for ideological reasons. Even Walker knows that he is against Unions period. Why can't you figure that out?
Great job of living up to the typical lefty stereotype. I believe you covered all of the bases including name calling. :thumb:

Your third paragraph doesn't even make sense, so let me break it down for you:

1. Wisconsin, a long time Democratic state, is deep in debt. Walker took office in January and inherited a budget deficit (from his Democratic predecessor who was Governor for 8 years) of $137 million for the current fiscal year ending June 30. The projected shortfall for the 2-year budget beginning on July 1 is over $3 billion.

2. Walker campaigned on fixing the state's fiscal issues and won the election as a result.

3. His plan to cover the $137 million gap for this fiscal year, and the over $3 billion gap over the next two years includes a number of items. One item is to require state employees to contribute more toward their pension and their health insurance.

4. Another item in his budget repair bill is to cut the amount of money that the state of Wisconsin currently hands out to counties and municipalities in Wisconsin. This means those counties and municipalities are going to have to make cuts of their own.

5. Walker knows that those small, local governments can't take on the powerful unions on their own, so there's no way they will be able to cut benefits to their union employees. If they can't cut benefits, they will be forced to cut services and lay off employees. Again, this is because the money those local governments have come to rely on from the state isn't going to be there anymore.

Trust me, I'm not lying and this isn't horsesh*t. I know what I'm talking about. I live in Wisconsin and I work for one of those county governments who are going to be impacted. I'm non-union, but MY benefits will likely be cut. I can't say I like that, but I understand the dire circumstances the state is in and the need to do this. Therefore, I support Walker's plan.

Direckshun
02-23-2011, 09:47 PM
You know, when we've got elected representatives who will drop everything, even amid a crisis, to talk for 20 minutes with a crazy person who just happens to be rich just because he's rich... we should look at reform of an electoral system that creates such a dynamic.

ClevelandBronco
02-23-2011, 09:49 PM
You know, when we've got elected representatives who will drop everything, even amid a crisis, to talk for 20 minutes with a crazy person who just happens to be rich just because he's rich... we should look at reform of an electoral system that creates such a dynamic.

A crisis?

banyon
02-23-2011, 09:49 PM
I completely fail to see what Walker did wrong, even during this call.

1. He was open to the idea of planting "troublemakers" to fraudulently portray his political opponents as violent or unruly. His reservations weren't ethical, but of political blowback.
2. He says the only reason he would meet with his opposition would be to trick them,into getting the legislature in session. Not because he's an adult trying to resolve a problem.

Direckshun
02-23-2011, 09:52 PM
A crisis?

Buddy, if you don't think politicians are taking phone calls from rich guys during all but the most dire of circumstances, you're adorable.

ClevelandBronco
02-23-2011, 09:54 PM
1. He was open to the idea of planting "troublemakers" to fraudulently portray his political opponents as violent or unruly. His reservations weren't ethical, but of political blowback.
2. He says the only reason he would meet with his opposition would be to trick them,into getting the legislature in session. Not because he's an adult trying to resolve a problem.

He was open to the idea of planting troublemakers? I read him shutting down the idea. As for luring the opposition back to spring a trap, that's hardly something that should surprise or bother anyone, IMO. This is a dirty game being played. Everyone has a bit of mud on their uniforms.

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 09:56 PM
As someone assessing the situation from Missouri, I have posted from the beginning that it looks to me like this governor is overreaching and trying to exaggerate a budget crisis to accomplish his goal of busting a union for ideological reasons and not for practical reasons.

Exaggerating? If you don't think just about every governor in this country is dealing with real and fairly massive budget issues, there's no help for you.

ClevelandBronco
02-23-2011, 09:57 PM
Buddy, if you don't think politicians are taking phone calls from rich guys during all but the most dire of circumstances, you're adorable.

Not only do I think they do, I would hope that they would. And if you think this situation even approaches dire or crisis levels, you're cute as a button yourself.

fan4ever
02-23-2011, 09:57 PM
A crisis?

Yeah, you know...the one the Dems handled by taking a bus out of state.

The Rick
02-23-2011, 09:57 PM
1. He was open to the idea of planting "troublemakers" to fraudulently portray his political opponents as violent or unruly. His reservations weren't ethical, but of political blowback.
2. He says the only reason he would meet with his opposition would be to trick them,into getting the legislature in session. Not because he's an adult trying to resolve a problem.
Did you actually listen to the audio of the phone call?

banyon
02-23-2011, 09:58 PM
He was open to the idea of planting troublemakers? I read him shutting down the idea. As for luring the opposition back to spring a trap, that's hardly something that should surprise or bother anyone, IMO. This is a dirty game being played. Everyone has a bit of mud on their uniforms.

No, he specifically said they had brought it up and discussed the idea.

On #2, yes It's dirty and there's political mud to go around, but the callous and brazenly dismissing attitude toward legitimate discussion isn't something we should accept.

ClevelandBronco
02-23-2011, 10:03 PM
Yeah, you know...the one the Dems handled by taking a bus out of state.

Oh, right. Thank God they found a way to deal with it. Sleep easy, Wisconsin.

ClevelandBronco
02-23-2011, 10:04 PM
No, he specifically said they had brought it up and discussed the idea.

And rejected it.

On #2, yes It's dirty and there's political mud to go around, but the callous and brazenly dismissing attitude toward legitimate discussion isn't something we should accept.

Hmm. I find it encouraging. Not all discussion is worth having.