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J Diddy
02-27-2011, 01:25 PM
I've got an 8 year old son who's literally out of flipping control. I'm talking if he doesn't get his way holes kicked in walls destruction of property, etc. Picking up cussing and flipping people off. I'm trying to keep my cool but it's getting progressively worse. Grounding doesn't work, spanking illicits a physical response by him as well. I don't want to hurt this kid, but I cannot let anyone waylay me.

If you have any advice please hit me up, because I can't continue like this.

bevischief
02-27-2011, 01:29 PM
Have you taken him to see someone like a doctor?

Gonzo
02-27-2011, 01:30 PM
Sounds like it's time to get some help here. A child psychiatrist and medication perhaps?
Don't have to much pride to seek help, it's your kid after all.
Posted via Dr. Phil device

Bacon Cheeseburger
02-27-2011, 01:34 PM
Seek professional help, maybe he needs ritalin or some shit. I'm not a fan of everyone drugging their kids, but this sounds like an extreme enough case that it would be warranted.

Stewie
02-27-2011, 01:38 PM
Yeah, get him to a professional. Is there an underlying reason for this? Being picked on, for example.

mlyonsd
02-27-2011, 01:43 PM
Yeah, get him to a professional. Is there an underlying reason for this? Being picked on, for example.

Excellent question.

You probably already thought of this but talk to his teacher/s to see if they know of anything going on at school that he doesn't want to talk about.

cdcox
02-27-2011, 01:46 PM
Your ex was an abusive alcoholic, no? No doubt that damage plus the confusion over still having feelings for her has him totally screwed up. Professional help, now.

Bowser
02-27-2011, 01:49 PM
Seek professional help, maybe he needs ritalin or some shit. I'm not a fan of everyone drugging their kids, but this sounds like an extreme enough case that it would be warranted.

Yes, this.

cdcox
02-27-2011, 01:50 PM
Oh, and be very very careful with kids and psychotrophic meds. Ritalin may be necessary, but I'd be very skeptical about anything more exotic at that age. If you end up going the med route, you need to really check out the doc.

Gonzo
02-27-2011, 01:50 PM
Seek professional help, maybe he needs ritalin or some shit. I'm not a fan of everyone drugging their kids, but this sounds like an extreme enough case that it would be warranted.

Agreed. That seems to be the universal answer in every case, now. "Get the kid on Ritalin or Prozac etc." I'm surprised they don't make anti-depression meds in the shape of cartoon characters for christ sakes.
This does sound like one of the few cases that really could use the help, though.
Posted via Mobile Device

Over-Head
02-27-2011, 02:10 PM
Lil guys only 4, `time out chair`still working wonders.
But get professional help

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2011, 02:16 PM
Pills for an 8 year old is a terrible idea. Consistency, positive reinforcement, and consequences for actions that don't include physical violence. Easier said than done, but pills will only fuck him up worse. Try not to ruin his life before he turns ten.

KurtCobain
02-27-2011, 02:20 PM
Pills for an 8 year old is a terrible idea. Consistency, positive reinforcement, and consequences for actions that don't include physical violence. Easier said than done, but pills will only fuck him up worse. Try not to ruin his life before he turns ten.

I agree pills are not the answer. I was a hyper kid, but alot of it could be attributed to all the candy and pop my parents let me have. Instead of cutting me off, they assumed I was ADHD, doped me up, and it fucked me up. I'd be full of ideas and fun running to the nurses office after lunch at school, and then I'd be stumbling back tired and imagination-less.

DaFace
02-27-2011, 02:22 PM
When I was a kid, I was an incredibly difficult child. At one point, my parents installed a lock on the outside of my door because they couldn't control me, my reaction to which was throwing toys at the door. Once upon a time, I chased my brother down (10 years older) with a hammer when he pissed me off and beat the shit out of the door to his bedroom.

My mom would tell you that my issue was a communication problem. Not at all trying to brag, but I was a damn smart kid, and I had a lot of trouble communicating with people, including my parents. When they didn't understand (and agree with) me, I'd get pissed off. Once I got over that, I calmed down a ton. I was actually a really good kid in high school.

Anyway, I mostly just grew out of it. No therapy, no drugs. But I'm sure there are things that a true professional could have done that would have made things better for a while. So I guess this post isn't so much advice as it is meant to give you hope that things'll be fine in the long run. Good luck, man.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2011, 02:22 PM
Basically, there's been an example set somewhere in his life, and he's modeling the behavior. He's only 8. It's time to create some new behavior for him to model. It will take time and an incredible amount of patience.

luv
02-27-2011, 02:23 PM
I agree pills are not the answer. I was a hyper kid, but alot of it could be attributed to all the candy and pop my parents let me have. Instead of cutting me off, they assumed I was ADHD, doped me up, and it fucked me up. I'd be full of ideas and fun running to the nurses office after lunch at school, and then I'd be stumbling back tired and imagination-less.

JMO, but there's a difference between being hyper and acting out. He's kicking holes in walls and fighting back when spanked. I don't think a time-out corner would work either. I think he needs to find out what the issue is, which means seeing a professional. I'm not saying pills are the answer. I'm saying there's no way to know where to start until diagnosis begins.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2011, 02:25 PM
When I was a kid, I was an incredibly difficult child. At one point, my parents installed a lock on the outside of my door, my reaction to which was throwing toys at the door. Once upon a time, I chased my brother down (10 years older) with a hammer when he pissed me off and beat the shit out of the door to his bedroom.

My mom would tell you that my issue was a communication problem. Not at all trying to brag, but I was a damn smart kid, and I had a lot of trouble communicating with people, including my parents. When they didn't understand (and agree with) me, I'd get pissed off. Once I got over that, I calmed down a ton. I was actually a really good kid in high school.

Anyway, I mostly just grew out of it. No therapy, no drugs. But I'm sure there are things that a true professional could have done that would have made things better for a while. So I guess this post isn't so much advice as it is meant to give you hope that things'll be fine in the long run. Good luck, man.

Chances are, a "professional" would've taken the kick back from the drug manufacturers and given you pills whether they would've helped you or not. Unless you got lucky and found one of the few good ones.

DaFace
02-27-2011, 02:26 PM
Chances are, a "professional" would've taken the kick back from the drug manufacturers and given you pills whether they would've helped you or not. Unless you got lucky and found one of the few good ones.

Oh, yeah...for the record, I'm against the drug route as well. I'd more be looking for someone who would give some tips on ways to alleviate whatever's causing the issue than, "drug him up - that'll help you not have to deal with him."

Huffman83
02-27-2011, 02:26 PM
I've got an 8 year old son who's literally out of flipping control. I'm talking if he doesn't get his way holes kicked in walls destruction of property, etc. Picking up cussing and flipping people off. I'm trying to keep my cool but it's getting progressively worse. Grounding doesn't work, spanking illicits a physical response by him as well. I don't want to hurt this kid, but I cannot let anyone waylay me.

If you have any advice please hit me up, because I can't continue like this.

How is he at at school? Is he disruptive in class at all?

luv
02-27-2011, 02:27 PM
Chances are, a "professional" would've taken the kick back from the drug manufacturers and given you pills whether they would've helped you or not. Unless you got lucky and found one of the few good ones.

And, as a parent, he doesn't have to fill the scripts. I'm not a parent though, so this is just an opinion based on observation. Whether or not to dope a kid up is going to ultimately be up to the parent.

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 02:28 PM
When I was a kid, I was an incredibly difficult child. At one point, my parents installed a lock on the outside of my door, my reaction to which was throwing toys at the door. Once upon a time, I chased my brother down (10 years older) with a hammer when he pissed me off and beat the shit out of the door to his bedroom.

My mom would tell you that my issue was a communication problem. Not at all trying to brag, but I was a damn smart kid, and I had a lot of trouble communicating with people, including my parents. When they didn't understand (and agree with) me, I'd get pissed off. Once I got over that, I calmed down a ton. I was actually a really good kid in high school.

Anyway, I mostly just grew out of it. No therapy, no drugs. But I'm sure there are things that a true professional could have done that would have made things better for a while. So I guess this post isn't so much advice as it is meant to give you hope that things'll be fine in the long run. Good luck, man.

Appreciate that. He is a bright kid. Just like you I assume he's got communication problems and immediately flys off the handle.

The kids going through a lot. The past year he was with me but I was still working a ton of hours and mostly while he was out of school. He has went from living with his mom who was an alcoholic.

LiveSteam
02-27-2011, 02:29 PM
I took ritalin from 1977 to 1980
Nothing wrong with me:shrug:

luv
02-27-2011, 02:30 PM
I took ritalin from 1977 to 1980
Nothing wrong with me:shrug:

I'm thinking that depends on who you ask. :p

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2011, 02:30 PM
And, as a parent, he doesn't have to fill the scripts. I'm not a parent though, so this is just an opinion based on observation. Whether or not to dope a kid up is going to ultimately be up to the parent.

Yep. And since this was brought up in a public forum I'm going to say that drugging an 8 year old is a cop out bull shit way to get out of being a Dad. And if drugs are prescribed, is it a real problem? Or just another cash cow for a doctor? It's not necessarily a good diagnosis. Personally, I don't think anything is wrong with the kid. He just needs better examples. JMUO

LiveSteam
02-27-2011, 02:32 PM
I'm thinking that depends on who you ask. :p

I have more issues than Gaddafi :thumb:

Bacon Cheeseburger
02-27-2011, 02:32 PM
Yep. And since this was brought up in a public forum I'm going to say that drugging an 8 year old is a cop out bull shit way to get out of being a Dad. And if drugs are prescribed, is it a real problem? Or just another cash cow for a doctor? It's not necessarily a good diagnosis. Personally, I don't think anything is wrong with the kid. He just needs better examples. JMUO
And since you threw that out there I'm going to point out that you have exactly 0 experience raising children.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2011, 02:33 PM
And since you threw that out there I'm going to point out that you have exactly 0 experience raising children.

Yeah. But that's a deflection. Do my comments not make any sense? and I did say it was just my unqualified opinion.

Huffman83
02-27-2011, 02:35 PM
Appreciate that. He is a bright kid. Just like you I assume he's got communication problems and immediately flys off the handle.

The kids going through a lot. The past year he was with me but I was still working a ton of hours and mostly while he was out of school. He has went from living with his mom who was an alcoholic.

If the kid is as bright as you say. Maybe he's just too bright for his own good right now. And basically he might have a mind of a kid that's 10-11 years old and he's 8 years old. You may not need to just see a counselor in order to get meds, but even just ideas/strategies on how to deal w/ his frustrations.

Keep his mind active...that sort of thing.

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 02:36 PM
How is he at at school? Is he disruptive in class at all?


Not at all. No behavior problems whatsoever. I wonder if he just holds it all in and releases it upon returning home.

LiveSteam
02-27-2011, 02:36 PM
Pills suck plain & simple. I had enough probs communicating at that age. & all the pills did? Was make me explain to every fucking kid in school ,why I had to go to the office every day for meds. They didnt do shit. i still cant spell, punctuate. ect. DONT FUCKING DO IT!
It was so embarrassing for me. I still dnt forgive them for putting me threw that hell.

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 02:38 PM
If the kid is as bright as you say. Maybe he's just too bright for his own good right now. And basically he might have a mind of a kid that's 10-11 years old and he's 8 years old. You may not need to just see a counselor in order to get meds, but even just ideas/strategies on how to deal w/ his frustrations.

Keep his mind active...that sort of thing.

The only way I'd put him on any meds is as a last resort a physician and most likely would get a second opinion as well.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2011, 02:39 PM
Am I coming across like an Asshole here? It's not my kid, I'm just trying to help.

DaFace
02-27-2011, 02:39 PM
If the kid is as bright as you say. Maybe he's just too bright for his own good right now. And basically he might have a mind of a kid that's 10-11 years old and he's 8 years old. You may not need to just see a counselor in order to get meds, but even just ideas/strategies on how to deal w/ his frustrations.

Keep his mind active...that sort of thing.

This might be a decent idea to try. Once again, I have no idea if it was intentional, but my parents did get me enrolled in the school's gifted program shortly after. The program had a variety of little exercises meant to get us thinking more creatively and that type of thing. I have no clue whatsoever if it made any behavioral difference at all, but thinking back, I did seem to be at my worst before that and progressively got better after. :shrug:

luv
02-27-2011, 02:39 PM
Yeah. But that's a deflection. Do my comments not make any sense? and I did say it was just my unqualified opinion.

It just seems like you're assuming that every kid models his parents' behavior. That's not always the case. I would think that, as his dad, ML wouldn't be reaching out for help if he thought the answer was going to be that simple.

I don't think the answer is as simple as "be a better example and wait it out" either. There's obviously damage already done. Sometimes that needs to be sorted out and dealt with before moving on. I'm not an advocate of drugs. I just think he needs to reach out to someone who is in a better position to understand what's going on in the child's head. If he's not a fan of drugs, then he needs to be upfront with the doctor about that. I'm sure doctors also prescribe drugs because it is the easier solution and the parents' request as well.

DaFace
02-27-2011, 02:40 PM
Am I coming across like an Asshole here? It's not my kid, I'm just trying to help.

Not to me. :shrug:

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 02:41 PM
Am I coming across like an Asshole here? It's not my kid, I'm just trying to help.

My door is wide open for criticsm, comments and advice. My ultimate goal is to get him right. If an unpopular opinion leads me down the road to do that then all is right in my world.

KurtCobain
02-27-2011, 02:42 PM
On the note of Flopnuts comments, I don't think just because a kid goes crazy like Diddy's kid, it means there's a bad example about. That's an easy diagnosis, but sometimes a kid can be in a ideal situation(an at home parent, not 'poor', plenty of outdoor activities etc) can still decide to rebel. It's part of growing up.

And I agree with Floppy on the pills, even if a situation gets bad, they'll calm down soon as long as they are in a stable environment. Ridilin almost always leads to future drug abuse.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2011, 02:42 PM
Ok certainly not saying the OP is the cause of the problem either. But he's most definitely the solution.

Huffman83
02-27-2011, 02:43 PM
The only way I'd put him on any meds is as a last resort a physician and most likely would get a second opinion as well.

I agree that it can be considered a cop out if you did something like..."well....go see the shrink..and taker your pill you little shit."

I'm not a parent (working on it.) but I get a lot of phone calls from parents like yourself that are at the end of their rope w/ their children.

How much time are you able to spend w/ him?

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 02:44 PM
I agree that it can be considered a cop out if you did something like..."well....go see the shrink..and taker your pill you little shit."

I'm not a parent (working on it.) but I get a lot of phone calls from parents like yourself that are at the end of their rope w/ their children.

How much time are you able to spend w/ him?

He lives with me. I do work part time and go to school full time but there is considerably more time now than in the past year.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2011, 02:45 PM
My door is wide open for criticsm, comments and advice. My ultimate goal is to get him right. If an unpopular opinion leads me down the road to do that then all is right in my world.

No criticism. I don't know. But it started in the home. Not necessarily yours. At 8 I don't think he gets too much of it at school, he's too young and its too structured. Maybe separation anxiety from leaving moms. Lots of possibilities. I'm not trying to be anti doctor either. I just really really think pills are a terrible idea. Again, I'm not qualified. Just my opinion.

LiveSteam
02-27-2011, 02:46 PM
He lives with me. I do work part time and go to school full time but there is considerably more time now than in the past year.

Is he into sports? I Thank god for lil league football. It changed every thing for me at that age.

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 02:47 PM
Is he into sports? I Thank god for lil league football. It changed every thing for me at that age.

In the past I haven't had time to get him into sports. He seems interested in soccer so in the spring I will have time to get him in that.

luv
02-27-2011, 02:48 PM
He lives with me. I do work part time and go to school full time but there is considerably more time now than in the past year.

Definitely sounds like an adjustment issue. He lived with his mom for seven years? I can't imagine she's always said good things about you or taught him to show a parent any kind of respect, where his teachers probably have, as well as being a symbol of some sort of stability/routine. It could be as easy as setting up a daily routine with him. Set boundaries, let him know the consequences of crossing those boundaries, and stick with it. Of course, if he doesn't respect you, the adjustment may be quite difficult.

DaFace
02-27-2011, 02:51 PM
Definitely sounds like an adjustment issue. He lived with his mom for seven years? I can't imagine she's always said good things about you or taught him to show a parent any kind of respect, where his teachers probably have, as well as being a symbol of some sort of stability/routine. It could be as easy as setting up a daily routine with him. Set boundaries, let him know the consequences of crossing those boundaries, and stick with it. Of course, if he doesn't respect you, the adjustment may be quite difficult.

Like Floppy, I have to have a giant "I DON'T HAVE KIDS" disclaimer here, but I always think it's important to consider that not all "reinforcement" has to be negative. Positive reinforcement can be an effective tool as well.

LiveSteam
02-27-2011, 02:52 PM
My mistake was pulling a pocket knife on Bugs & Ray Rankin. Next day I was in a child's hospital having every test known to man run on me. 10 days I was there. Then came the shrinks & the meds. all i needed was sports.
Sorry Bugs. But i hated Ray,he was a god dam bully
PS Elvis died why i was in that hospital

Huffman83
02-27-2011, 02:53 PM
Besides counseling to see what they think. Find something you guys can do together. Whether that's sports, building models,music, etc. Anything that can open a dialog between you two as well as keep his mind active.

My brother in law had a lot of the issues you're describing. My mother in law had him see a Dr. and refused to give him ritalin. However she put him in more advanced classes and skipped him a few grades in school at the age of 10. He calmed down, did very well in class and graduated at the head of his class in HS at 14.

Huffman83
02-27-2011, 02:55 PM
Definitely sounds like an adjustment issue. He lived with his mom for seven years? I can't imagine she's always said good things about you or taught him to show a parent any kind of respect, where his teachers probably have, as well as being a symbol of some sort of stability/routine. It could be as easy as setting up a daily routine with him. Set boundaries, let him know the consequences of crossing those boundaries, and stick with it. Of course, if he doesn't respect you, the adjustment may be quite difficult.

Forgot to mention that. If he's not having issues like that at school. He does/can respect structure/authority figures.

Count Zarth
02-27-2011, 02:56 PM
Find out what's important to him and take it away.

luv
02-27-2011, 03:00 PM
Like Floppy, I have to have a giant "I DON'T HAVE KIDS" disclaimer here, but I always think it's important to consider that not all "reinforcement" has to be negative. Positive reinforcement can be an effective tool as well.

So true. I was one who responded better to positive reinforcement, because I always punished myself more than my parents could. I'm not a parent, and probably never will be. Not that I don't love kids. I just know I don't have the self-discipline required. I have a friend who is a single mom that says it tends to come once you have kids. I don't know. I've seen enough parents who don't have it to make me question myself.

Anyway, anything I say is definitely from observations as opposed to experience as well. My nephew is on meds. Has been since he was about 5. Kills my mom. She doesn't think he's got ADHD. She thinks his parents lack the discipline to discipline. She used to make my nephew sit down with her to look at books as she read them. His parents never did that. To this day, she's never had a problem with him listening to her.

3rd&48ers
02-27-2011, 03:00 PM
I've got an 8 year old son who's literally out of flipping control. I'm talking if he doesn't get his way holes kicked in walls destruction of property, etc. Picking up cussing and flipping people off. I'm trying to keep my cool but it's getting progressively worse. Grounding doesn't work, spanking illicits a physical response by him as well. I don't want to hurt this kid, but I cannot let anyone waylay me.

If you have any advice please hit me up, because I can't continue like this.

Military school

3rd&48ers
02-27-2011, 03:02 PM
Martial arts is good too, he takes that attitude in there and he will get his ass kicked by his own size people.... Probably would help him alot.

LiveSteam
02-27-2011, 03:03 PM
Martial arts is good too, he takes that attitude in there and he will get his ass kicked by his own size people.... Probably would help him alot.

I agree 100% with this.

Saulbadguy
02-27-2011, 03:03 PM
Uh...leave a out a bowl of antifreeze?

Huffman83
02-27-2011, 03:05 PM
Martial arts is good too, he takes that attitude in there and he will get his ass kicked by his own size people.... Probably would help him alot.

Here's why I don't agree.

http://bigsecretpizzaparty.typepad.com/shhhh/images/gallery_william_zabka_1_1.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZTJ_Q5L9XlM/SYr6RToAWKI/AAAAAAAAAEA/Kj9agJraU3g/s320/SenseiJohnKreese.jpg

Fat Elvis
02-27-2011, 03:11 PM
Might look to see if there are any Positive Behavioral Supports professionals in your area.

KurtCobain
02-27-2011, 03:12 PM
PBS

FAX
02-27-2011, 03:13 PM
Unfortunately, some children are simply aggressive, violent, little midgets. No one knows exactly why, they are just born that way.

The closest experience I can draw upon is a "great nephew" adopted by the beautiful and witty Mrs. FAX's niece. He is 7 years-old and was the second child of two, trailor-trash, drug-addicted, alcoholic morons who eventually divorced allowing the court to distribute their children among willing relatives.

This little feller was recently diagnosed with "pre-schizophrenia" after stabbing both his fellow classmate and his teacher with a pencil. This is the kind of early onset disease that, left untreated, can lead people to kill small animals, set birds on fire, and murder their parents in their sleep.

Interestingly, childhood schizophrenia is not necessarily uncommon. It is, however, rarely diagnosed and can often be misdiagnosed as bi-polar disorder, ADHD, autism, or Asperger's.

Obviously, your child may not be suffering from pre-schizophrenia or anything of the kind. It could be a thyroid condition or pituitary problem or (if he acts out mainly when told "no", he could be bi-polar) or, as Mr. DaFace suggests, he might just be pissed off a lot. Still, the behavior you cite in the OP is telling. Plus, do you want to risk ignoring a problem that is treatable?

Here's what you do (in my opinion only, of course); 1) Start a journal of your child's activities and specifically his aberrant behavior (this is important). 2) Take him to your regular pediatrician and discuss options. You may wish to have MRIs or EEGs conducted at that point to check for verifiable seizure disorders ... or rule them out. Blood tests can help identify other potential problems like thyroid conditions, etc. 3) If the problem is not "physical", your pediatrician can refer you to a child psychiatrist. These guys can be great or they can suck. But you have to sort through the chaff to find the wheat. You're looking for someone you trust. A diagnosis of some sort of psychological disorder will lead to a treatment plan that will likely include drugs and a lot of trial and error trying to find the right medication, mix, and dosage that minimizes symptoms. 4) If a disorder of some kind is diagnosed, find a support network of other parents dealing with the same issue and get involved. They're out there. 5) If it is a mental or psychological problem, keep love in your heart and remember that it's a lifelong fight so be patient.

FAX

Phobia
02-27-2011, 03:23 PM
When I was a kid, I was an incredibly difficult child. At one point, my parents installed a lock on the outside of my door because they couldn't control me, my reaction to which was throwing toys at the door. Once upon a time, I chased my brother down (10 years older) with a hammer when he pissed me off and beat the shit out of the door to his bedroom.

My mom would tell you that my issue was a communication problem. Not at all trying to brag, but I was a damn smart kid, and I had a lot of trouble communicating with people, including my parents. When they didn't understand (and agree with) me, I'd get pissed off. Once I got over that, I calmed down a ton. I was actually a really good kid in high school.

Anyway, I mostly just grew out of it. No therapy, no drugs. But I'm sure there are things that a true professional could have done that would have made things better for a while. So I guess this post isn't so much advice as it is meant to give you hope that things'll be fine in the long run. Good luck, man.

This is probably it. The kid is frustrated that MotherLover is such a moron that he can't communicate without beating his chest and grunting.

Phobia
02-27-2011, 03:28 PM
Find out what's important to him and take it away.

This is very good, Clay. I expected you to have responded to a parenting thread, of course. What I didn't expect is that you would answer so well.

Identifying the child's currency can be more difficult than you would anticipate though.

LiveSteam
02-27-2011, 03:30 PM
This is very good, Clay. I expected you to have responded to a parenting thread, of course. What I didn't expect is that you would answer so well.

Identifying the child's currency can be more difficult than you would anticipate though.

Beiber

trndobrd
02-27-2011, 03:34 PM
One possibility, or contributing factor, that I have not seen mentioned is a food allergy. My brother-in-law had very similar symptoms, which were identified after several years of mis-diagnosis, as a reaction to corn and several types of food colorings.

As an addition to Mr. Fax's excellent recommendation to keep a journal, you should note the foods he eats.

3rd&48ers
02-27-2011, 03:44 PM
Lord have mercy...

My Moonbat senses are tingling

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 06:25 PM
This is probably it. The kid is frustrated that MotherLover is such a moron that he can't communicate without beating his chest and grunting.


Lol, yep that's probably it. I'm a real aggressive type.

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 06:27 PM
Unfortunately, some children are simply aggressive, violent, little midgets. No one knows exactly why, they are just born that way.

The closest experience I can draw upon is a "great nephew" adopted by the beautiful and witty Mrs. FAX's niece. He is 7 years-old and was the second child of two, trailor-trash, drug-addicted, alcoholic morons who eventually divorced allowing the court to distribute their children among willing relatives.

This little feller was recently diagnosed with "pre-schizophrenia" after stabbing both his fellow classmate and his teacher with a pencil. This is the kind of early onset disease that, left untreated, can lead people to kill small animals, set birds on fire, and murder their parents in their sleep.

Interestingly, childhood schizophrenia is not necessarily uncommon. It is, however, rarely diagnosed and can often be misdiagnosed as bi-polar disorder, ADHD, autism, or Asperger's.

Obviously, your child may not be suffering from pre-schizophrenia or anything of the kind. It could be a thyroid condition or pituitary problem or (if he acts out mainly when told "no", he could be bi-polar) or, as Mr. DaFace suggests, he might just be pissed off a lot. Still, the behavior you cite in the OP is telling. Plus, do you want to risk ignoring a problem that is treatable?

Here's what you do (in my opinion only, of course); 1) Start a journal of your child's activities and specifically his aberrant behavior (this is important). 2) Take him to your regular pediatrician and discuss options. You may wish to have MRIs or EEGs conducted at that point to check for verifiable seizure disorders ... or rule them out. Blood tests can help identify other potential problems like thyroid conditions, etc. 3) If the problem is not "physical", your pediatrician can refer you to a child psychiatrist. These guys can be great or they can suck. But you have to sort through the chaff to find the wheat. You're looking for someone you trust. A diagnosis of some sort of psychological disorder will lead to a treatment plan that will likely include drugs and a lot of trial and error trying to find the right medication, mix, and dosage that minimizes symptoms. 4) If a disorder of some kind is diagnosed, find a support network of other parents dealing with the same issue and get involved. They're out there. 5) If it is a mental or psychological problem, keep love in your heart and remember that it's a lifelong fight so be patient.

FAX

Great answer.

bevischief
02-27-2011, 06:29 PM
ER at this point.

stevieray
02-27-2011, 06:49 PM
Anger is usually masking sadness and fear. If he feels abondoned by one parent, literally and/or emotionally..he's got his guard up, cause he doesn't want to get hurt again...that's some serious, serious pain.

don't make it about him or his personality, just focus on the behavior. and the behavior rerquire consequences, but it has to come from a consistant base..same tone, same reaction, same discipline with love...and an explanation. he gets an agressive reaction, it's like fuel to the fire..remember, he's on the defensive. rightly so.

this is huge opportunity for you to step up and show him how much you love him and more importantly, going to be there for him..he needs those roots.

it's one of the many reasons it's called tough love.

hang in there.

Saul Good
02-27-2011, 06:50 PM
My initial thought on this is that the kid doesn't feel important. The strongest psychological need that a child has is the need to feel important. It sounds like there are a lot of reasons that this may be lacking for him.

Addicts are self-absorbed. It goes with the territory, so he doesn't feel important to his mom. As busy as you are, this may exacerbate the situation. I would look to get him involved in as many activities as possible. You should be involved in some of these activities, but not necessarily all of them. If he finds something that he really likes and is good at, it will go a long way towards making him feel important. It will have the added bonus of wearing him out. It's hard for a kid to act out while physically and mentally exhausted.

Make sure to expose him to a variety of things and not just things that you like. This will make him a more well-rounded person as well as helping him find his identity.

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 07:34 PM
Saul and Stevie great positive answers that made me think a little different. I appreciate the time and thought.

Gadzooks
02-27-2011, 08:08 PM
The kid needs a consistent positive routine. It's hard work that pays off in the end.
As much as alot of people are pushing pills, I would look into his diet.
Sugars and caffine have a huge effect on childrens behavior. Both have a tendancy to make kids annoying, then tired, which ends up making them super annoying.
Give the kid a stable lifestyle with the proper diet and your problems are all but solved.
Simple.

RustShack
02-27-2011, 08:30 PM
Tell him to get a job.

J Diddy
02-27-2011, 08:38 PM
Tell him to get a job.


You know after the day I've had. Fuck you.

CoMoChief
02-27-2011, 08:53 PM
spank that little ****ers ass till it's black and blue.

jfc some parents need to grow a pair. pills aren't gonna work, taking him to some yahoo with a piece of paper hanging up on the wall isn't going to help him, grounding him may partially work IF you also include whipping the kid's ass as well.

He'll figure out really quick that he's not going to like his ass being black and blue and he'll stop.

This country needs to grow a sack and discipline their kids. My dad would knock the shit out of me if i tried to pull something like that.

Stop being a giant pussy America, it's okay to spank your children when its deserved.

ClevelandBronco
02-27-2011, 08:56 PM
I'm no physician, but have you considered administering large, frequent doses of marijuana? I don't have any suggestions for the kid.

Groves
02-28-2011, 06:05 AM
Pills for an 8 year old is a terrible idea. Consistency, positive reinforcement, and consequences for actions that don't include physical violence. Easier said than done, but pills will only **** him up worse. Try not to ruin his life before he turns ten.

Mr. Flopnuts hits a homer on this one.

Motherlover, you say that spanking "gets a physical response". What's that mean? How long has this been the case? None of us are in the room when you're disciplining, so it's impossible to know whether you're a "spank just hard enough to make them angry, but not hard enough to do the job" type of person, or a "holy cow you really could injure with that spanking" type of person.

Nobody is suggesting you bring injury to the child, but you gotta make sure his will is broken. Otherwise, what's the point? A deterrent? The threat of another almost-spanking?

Obviously, you know your kid better than all of us.

FAX
02-28-2011, 06:36 AM
You guys make funny.

Let's say that this unfortunate child has a pituitary defect or thyroid problem causing a lack of emotional control (not particularly unusual, by the way). You're going to spank that out of the guy?

Think about it.

FAX

J Diddy
02-28-2011, 06:59 AM
I'm gonna set up an appointment with a counselor today. I think like some others have suggested he is having a hard time dealing with some things and doesn't quite know how to express it. Obviously, I'm not getting the message across.

His diet has been horrendous. Preferring not to eat at all then eat a mildly healthy meal. If it ain't got sugar he don't want none, etc.

I appreciate the solid advice from those that posted it. I was literally at wits end yesterday. Seemed like a nonstop barrage from first him, then his 14 year old sister, and then back to him again at bed time.

As far as spanking goes it just makes it worse. My memories as a child was to screw up and it was expected to get a good beating. I know times are a different, and quite honestly, don't want to go that route.

See here's the enigma. If he acts up I'll put him in his room. Then he'll start kicking walls, which at that point, I've got to physically restrain him. Either that or spend a lot of money repairing walls. Once things get physical, and I'm not talking about angrily spanking him, he will literally start kicking or throwing punches. Of which I can only do so much without getting angry. I can't walk away and cool down because then it's back to kicking walls, destroying things, etc.

I don't know. I'm gonna get him into some counseling and perhaps that'll help at the bare minimum to see what I'm doing wrong. For those that think I'm a chest beating, gorilla like, dictator don't know me at all. I love my kids very much. One of which isn't mine, but I still treat her like she is. I am the sole provider who's trying to be a father, bring home the bacon and provide for everybodys future. Some of these comments on this thread were genuine and heartfelt. Others sounded like rather than offer a decent piece of advice or opinion or just walk away they felt they had to pipe in with some idiotic joke.

I simply put this out there because to be quite honest I really don't know what to do. I have ideas but I'd rather pull from someone who's been there's knowledge than trial and error.

FAX
02-28-2011, 07:06 AM
The overtly macho "beat it out of him" crap is just that. My father never laid a hand on me and I turned out just fine ... ask anybody.

I'm not opposed to corporal punishment, though. Not when the circumstances require it. However, the behavior you're describing, Mr. MotherLover, is aberrant. Pure and simple. There must be a cause. It's either emotional or physical. You need to start a journal so you can communicate effectively with his doctor then rule out any physical reasons for the behavior (diet could certainly be a factor, it appears). When a physical cause is ruled out, you then move on to the more emotional/mental aspects. Eventually, you'll identify the root cause and can devise a treatment plan (which may or may not include punishments) with your doctor. Also, it's pretty damn important to find a support group of parents so you don't go nuts along the way.

Best of luck. It's not easy, that's for sure.

FAX

vailpass
02-28-2011, 07:09 AM
Do you have a pediatrician you trust? Get your child to him/her immediately and go from there.

J Diddy
02-28-2011, 07:14 AM
I have a pedatrician appointment set for next month but in the meantime I have an appointment with a therapist on Thursday. Apparently they're going to do some tests at that appointment and assign him a counselor based on that.

tooge
02-28-2011, 07:16 AM
Your ex was an abusive alcoholic, no? No doubt that damage plus the confusion over still having feelings for her has him totally screwed up. Professional help, now.

this

vailpass
02-28-2011, 07:18 AM
I have a pedatrician appointment set for next month but in the meantime I have an appointment with a therapist on Thursday. Apparently they're going to do some tests at that appointment and assign him a counselor based on that.

Great. You can take the evaluation results from the counselor to your ped. for them to review and give you their input so you can generate options, review and decide which you feel is best for your child.

I wish you the best, if you continue to act instead of letting it go you will enable your kid to release the happy child inside.

MOhillbilly
02-28-2011, 07:18 AM
Talk soft and buy a board.

tooge
02-28-2011, 07:27 AM
although I think you should seek professional help for him, I would make sure the doc knows that meds are a last resort and you will try other things first. I agree with Da Face. I was the same way as a kid. Punching holes in walls, tearing shit up, etc. I come from a fairly screwed up household though, like your son. I grew out of it for the most part, and I think what really helped me was having other outlets for my frustrations. Things like football and baseball for example. I would certainly recommend having some serious bonding time together doing something that brings the two of you onto the same "mission" for success. Hike a three day trail, canoe a few days of river, restore an old car or bike. Something that not only gives him a project to focus on, but a goal that is the same as yours. Completing a "mission" together brings people together and forms bonds nothing else does. Just as a few WWII veterans that served together 70 years ago.

Groves
02-28-2011, 07:28 AM
Sounds like you're very interested in helping your kids...that's the solid foundation.

We're all rootin for you. Hope the appointments go well, and you get kind and understanding doctors.

Walls are fixable.

Dayze
02-28-2011, 07:35 AM
send him to Mohillibilly's house.

although I keeed (but i do think Mo couldwork wonders with him on the farm/land), I wish you the best of luck. I don't have a lot of advice here that hasnt' already been stated; I can't imagine how difficult it is right now for you.

ReynardMuldrake
02-28-2011, 07:56 AM
Does he take part in any sports or anything? Maybe he needs an outlet to release some frustration. You could try enrolling him in a self-defense class to allow him to let out some aggression and teach him some self-control.

MOhillbilly
02-28-2011, 08:04 AM
get him out in the woods, on the river, camping, ect. My pops & i bonded more doin that kinda stuff than any other time.
Just take off with him and hit some trails.

The best part is you dont even have to do anything.

Matter of fact the less you do the better.
jmo.

Frosty
02-28-2011, 08:49 AM
It sounds like there are other issues but I will throw out my experience for consideration.

My oldest was a pretty happy child but started changing at about seven or eight years old. He started being very defiant and angry and there were times that he was almost out of control.

As he got older, these episodes increased and got scarier, especially as he got bigger. There were a few times that that he came after me swinging. I found that any physical response by me would only escalate the situation. I had to be very calm and "talk him off the ledge". After he calmed down, he would be very sorry and scared. He told me that he felt like something else was in control at the time.

About five years ago, I went on a gluten free diet to try to solve some lifelong stomach issues. Besides helping my stomach, I noticed that I felt much calmer (I always felt like I had anger just bubbling under the surface and I could fly off the handle pretty easily). We decided to try a GF diet on my son to see if it would help.

The effect was pretty immediate. He calmed down pretty quickly and the out of control episodes disappeared. It was noticeable even by people outside of our family, so it wasn't just wishful thinking.

It's now four years later and he is now 16 and a sophomore in high school. I really enjoy being around him. He's an excellent student and we have teachers and other adults that spend time with him away from us tell us that he is great to be around. He can still be a snarky little bastard occasionally but that is normal teenager stuff. The only time we've had a problem is when he and I were accidentally glutened in a restaurant a couple of years ago. That wasn't pretty.

My youngest son didn't have the anger issues but was almost bipolar. Highers were super high and lows were the black pit of despair. He also had a terrible time concentrating. I'd send him up to his room to get something and then have to go looking for him a half hour later because he had gotten distracted by something along the way. He didn't like to read because it was hard to concentrate.

His emotions have now evened out. He is the top student in his class and is a voracious reader. The changes have been amazing.

Neither boy cheats on the diet at all because they know how it makes them feel. I have since talked with other parents on some gluten free forums and have seen similar stories.

Count Zarth
02-28-2011, 09:02 AM
The only time we've had a problem is when he and I were accidentally glutened in a restaurant a couple of years ago. That wasn't pretty.

LOL! What happened?

Frosty
02-28-2011, 09:26 AM
LOL! What happened?

We were at my in-laws. We had gotten glutened at lunch but were back at their house a couple of hours later. I wasn't feeling well and he was getting progressively mouthier. I finally told him to go into his room until he calmed down. He told me "make me".

So I did.

After physically pushing him into the room, he comes back out swinging. I got him back into the room and finally calmed down enough to get him calm.

The whole time this was going on, my in-laws were sitting at the table in shocked silence. :facepalm:

MOhillbilly
02-28-2011, 09:28 AM
Couldnt ever imagine swingin on my pops.

Frosty
02-28-2011, 09:30 AM
Couldnt ever imagine swingin on my pops.

Me either.

tooge
02-28-2011, 09:30 AM
I glutened a gal in college once and she was fairly pissed off

Frosty
02-28-2011, 09:50 AM
I glutened a gal in college once and she was fairly pissed off

I am going to assume you are serious here.

Some people (ahem - my dad) think it isn't a big deal because it isn't like a peanut allergy where your throat closes up and you die. It sucks when it happens though. For me, it's painful and can take several days to feel normal again. It can also trigger an auto-immune response which can take weeks to recover from.

Neither of my boys will eat lunch at school because their friends think it's funny to mess with their food. :rolleyes: They also don't like to look "different", meaning that their lunch isn't the total crap that most of their classmates bring for lunch (Pop Tarts and a Monster, for example - really?).

DJ's left nut
02-28-2011, 10:10 AM
Am I coming across like an Asshole here? It's not my kid, I'm just trying to help.

Honestly? Yeah, a little bit.

My folks were pretty strict anti-drug folks as well. My sister and I both could've ended up on the stuff, but neither of us did. They about flipped out on my sister's Kindergarten teacher for suggesting it (justifiably so, IMO, WTF kind of kindergarten teacher says a 6 yr old should be on ritalin?)

At the same time, if I hadn't ever raised a kid, I'd be pretty damn hesitant to refer to anything as a 'bullshit cop-out'. If we're talking dogs, I'll tell you what I think and I'll have no qualms in telling you you're an idiot or an asshole for doing something stupid. I feel I'm qualified to say so as I've gone through several wars with them, have trained myself up pretty well and put it into application.

With children, on the other hand, I'll give an opinion and that's about it. I haven't ever had any and am damn sure not qualified to sit in someone else's shoes and call anything a 'bullshit copout'. Then to go right down and say "child psychologists are tools of the drug companies and there are very few good ones" sounds a lot like you're talking out your ass. That's a lot of vitriole to throw at an entire profession without ever actually using their services.

So yeah, seeing as how you've never raised a kid and have no true real-world application to draw on here, I'd say the hostility implicit in your response constitutes being a little bit of an asshole.

Just sayin'...

Lono
02-28-2011, 01:05 PM
Anger is usually masking sadness and fear. If he feels abondoned by one parent, literally and/or emotionally..he's got his guard up, cause he doesn't want to get hurt again...that's some serious, serious pain.

don't make it about him or his personality, just focus on the behavior. and the behavior rerquire consequences, but it has to come from a consistant base..same tone, same reaction, same discipline with love...and an explanation. he gets an agressive reaction, it's like fuel to the fire..remember, he's on the defensive. rightly so.

this is huge opportunity for you to step up and show him how much you love him and more importantly, going to be there for him..he needs those roots.

it's one of the many reasons it's called tough love.

hang in there.

I was about to post the exact same thing. Excellent advice. Wife's aunt and uncle adopted his nephew, who's father died from drugs and mother was a whore (literally) and ended up in prison for theft. He was a mean little 5 year old boy. They were loving, consistant with discipline, and explained their reasons for everything. He just needed to be taught what was acceptable and what wasn't and how to express his feelings in a way that wasn't destructive.

chief husker
02-28-2011, 01:07 PM
Stop feeding him. He'll slow down.