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healthpellets
03-09-2011, 09:39 AM
Congrats, and now you look like a fool.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/08/wis-gov-proposes-union-compromise-in-e-mails/

Wis. gov. proposes union compromise in e-mails

By DAVID A. LIEB 5:35 PM 03/08/2011
ADVERTISEMENT
MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has offered to keep certain collective bargaining rights in place for state workers in a proposed compromise aimed at ending a nearly three-week standoff with absent Senate Democrats, according to e-mails released Tuesday by his office.

The e-mails, some dated as recently as Sunday, show a softened stance in Walker’s talks with the 14 Democrats who fled to Illinois to block a vote on his original proposal that would strip nearly all collective bargaining rights for public workers and force concessions amounting to an average 8 percent pay cut.

Under the compromise floated by Walker and detailed in the e-mails, workers would be able to continue bargaining over their salaries with no limit, a change from his original plan that banned negotiated salary increases beyond inflation. He also proposed compromises allowing collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.

Increased contributions for health insurance and pension, projected to save the state $330 million by mid-2013, would remain. The unions and Democrats have agreed to those concessions to help balance a projected $3.6 billion budget shortfall.

Sen. Bob Jauch, one of the 14 AWOL Democrats, said he hoped the compromise would serve as a blueprint for future negotiations. But he and Sen. Tim Cullen, who were both working with Walker’s administration, said the latest offer was inadequate.

The e-mails show that Jauch had wanted even more items to be subject to bargaining that Walker seeks to eliminate, including sick leave and vacation pay.

“I consider the lines of communication still open,” Cullen said Tuesday. “Whether there’s going to be any communicating, remains to be seen. These things ebb and flow.”

Walker has repeatedly said that he would not budge on the key parts of the bill that’s been stymied in the Senate after Democrats left 19 days ago. Since then, the pressure to deal has increased as protests reached as large as 80,000 people, polls show the public want a compromise and recall efforts were launched against 16 senators, including eight Republicans.

Some of the items in Walker’s compromise plan could only be bargained if both sides agree to take them up. Workplace safety would be subjected to bargaining regardless.

Walker also proposed allowing collective bargaining agreements to last up to two years, instead of the one-year limit in his original proposal. Unions would only have to vote to remain in existence every three years, instead of annually as Walker initially proposed.

Additionally, University of Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics Authority employees would not lose all union bargaining rights and the Legislature’s budget committee would have to vote to approve any changes to Medicaid programs sought by Walker’s administration. Under the original bill, the Department of Health Services could make cuts and other changes to programs benefiting the poor, elderly and disabled without requiring a hearing or vote by the legislative committee.

Senate Republicans spent hours going over the compromise plan Tuesday morning in a closed-door meeting, Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said. He acknowledged that pressure was increasing on the senators, saying the recall efforts launched against eight Republicans was “on everybody’s minds.”

“Everybody’s obviously receiving a lot of pressure,” Fitzgerald said. “I had people on my front porch before I left this morning.”

He didn’t say whether Senate Republicans agreed with the concessions Walker proposed on Sunday said support for the underlying bill remained strong.

“We’re rock solid, we’re fine,” he said.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/08/wis-gov-proposes-union-compromise-in-e-mails/#ixzz1G7ZIEfhX

BucEyedPea
03-09-2011, 09:40 AM
Hmmmm....the Ds wouldn't cave on Obamacare but the Rs will cave here.

Royal Fanatic
03-09-2011, 10:03 AM
He should cave, because this is a position he shouldn't have taken in the first place.

This guy sums it up pretty well:

http://rickkomer.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/the-republicans-are-blowing-it-for-2012/ (http://www.rickkomer.com/)

Two years into the Obama administration the Democratic party was in shambles. Because of the arrogance of the Obama administration and the passage of the hugely unpopular health care reform bill, Obama’s popularity was at near-historic lows. A majority of the American people sharply disagreed with the Democratic positions on a number of issues, but Obama insisted upon pushing his agenda anyway. Rather than working to achieve a bi-partisan consensus, he dismissed and disrespected the opposition with his now infamous quote “elections have consequences”. Democrats lost control of the Senate in the 2010 elections, and things were spiraling downhill for them.

It was a perfect opportunity for the Republican party. They regained control of the Senate in 2010, and they were a virtual shoo-in to regain control of the House in 2012. The chances were even pretty good that they could deny Obama a chance for a second term.

But then a funny thing happened on the way to the planned Republican landslide of 2012. Republican Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin needed to get major concessions from the public unions in order to reduce the state’s massive budget deficit. He proposed legislation that would require state employees to contribute to their own pension plans and to pay a larger portion of their health care costs. Those were perfectly reasonable positions for him to take because it would bring the state employees more closely in line with their counterparts in the private business world.

Scott Walker blew it though, when he insisted that part of the deal had to be that employees in public unions must lose the right to collectively bargain future benefits. He should have known that union members and all Democrats would ferociously oppose this. They correctly interpret this as an attack on unions in general.

Let’s face it. This is an attack on unions in general. This is also a lightning rod issue that will cost the Republicans dearly. Instead of an apathetic Democratic party spending their time and energy making excuses for Obama’s failure, you suddenly have an energetic and united Democratic party who can villify the Republicans for declaring war on unions in general.

They say that those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Apparently Scott Walker and the Republicans who have lined up to enthusiastically support him learned nothing from the troubles that Obama and the Democrats brought upon themselves. Obama and the Democrats insisted upon forcing their agenda down the throats of the opposition instead of seeking a compromise that everyone could live with. As a result, their hard-core supporters applauded them, the opposition criticized them vigorously, and the moderates were driven to the other side.

Scott Walker and the Republicans are now making the exact same mistake. This will cost the Republicans dearly, and will probably ensure Obama’s re-election in 2012.

Speaking as a Republican who wants to see Obama defeated in 2012, this makes me shake my head in dismay.

Saul Good
03-09-2011, 10:17 AM
Sounds like Walker shored up his base and will wind up winning the middle via the compromise. The Democrats who left the state look like children, and the protesters who used fake doctor notes look like thieves. This could be a master stroke if he plays his cards right.

Royal Fanatic
03-09-2011, 10:26 AM
Sounds like Walker shored up his base and will wind up winning the middle via the compromise. The Democrats who left the state look like children, and the protesters who used fake doctor notes look like thieves. This could be a master stroke if he plays his cards right.
Let's hope he does.

dirk digler
03-09-2011, 10:28 AM
Sounds like Walker shored up his base and will wind up winning the middle via the compromise. The Democrats who left the state look like children, and the protesters who used fake doctor notes look like thieves. This could be a master stroke if he plays his cards right.

LMAO That is one hell of a spin job.

If this is true then he is going to cave on all the major collective bargaining issues and it wouldn't have happened if the Dems didn't walk out.

FD
03-09-2011, 10:30 AM
Hope this isn't true. If he caves on this, other governors are going to be a lot less likely to take on their unions.

Saul Good
03-09-2011, 10:32 AM
LMAO That is one hell of a spin job.

If this is true then he is going to cave on all the major collective bargaining issues and it wouldn't have happened if the Dems didn't walk out.

It wouldn't have happened if the Dems didn't walk out. The dems will solidify their base, but I think Walker wins the middle. He's the only one who looks like an adult.

Cave Johnson
03-09-2011, 10:34 AM
Sounds like Walker shored up his base and will wind up winning the middle via the compromise. The Democrats who left the state look like children, and the protesters who used fake doctor notes look like thieves. This could be a master stroke if he plays his cards right.

Remains to be seen how the independents react the the compromise..... they're not polling favorably for Walker at the moment.

Saul Good
03-09-2011, 10:35 AM
Hope this isn't true. If he caves on this, other governors are going to be a lot less likely to take on their unions.

Why would they be? His concessions were minimal compared to his gains. The health insurance and pension issues are what is really bankrupting the state, not class size, hazardous duty pay, etc.

"Under the compromise floated by Walker and detailed in the e-mails, workers would be able to continue bargaining over their salaries with no limit, a change from his original plan that banned negotiated salary increases beyond inflation. He also proposed compromises allowing collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.

Increased contributions for health insurance and pension, projected to save the state $330 million by mid-2013, would remain. The unions and Democrats have agreed to those concessions to help balance a projected $3.6 billion budget shortfall."

Saul Good
03-09-2011, 10:36 AM
Remains to be seen how the independents react the the compromise..... they're not polling favorably for Walker at the moment.

The current polls don't like anyone much. This is going to be a pretty good deal for both sides and, more importantly, the public.

mnchiefsguy
03-09-2011, 10:42 AM
From the sound of the article, the Democrats are not too excited about the proposed compromise...sounds like they want more. Perhaps Walker is floating this out there, thinking the Democrats would reject, so he can then show the public he was will to compromise...and that the Democrats wanted too much. This will allow him to say he tried, and will allow to resume his tough line once the Democrats formally reject the deal.

orange
03-09-2011, 11:25 AM
From the sound of the article, the Democrats are not too excited about the proposed compromise...sounds like they want more. Perhaps Walker is floating this out there, thinking the Democrats would reject, so he can then show the public he was will to compromise...and that the Democrats wanted too much. This will allow him to say he tried, and will allow to resume his tough line once the Democrats formally reject the deal.

Labor leaders weren’t impressed, either with the legislative compromise or the new, softer version of Walker.

“Scott Walker is literally being sued by multiple Wisconsin media outlets for failing to release emails related to the budget repair bill, yet he’s willing to selectively leak emails he believes create the illusion he’s willing to make concessions,” said Rick Badger, Executive Director of a local AFSCME affiliate. “If Scott Walker really wants to negotiate, he should name a time and place and sit down with Democratic Senators. This deal is not going to be struck through stunts involving leaked emails and press conferences.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/09/scott-walker-email_n_833454.html


If there wasn't a tape being played on every radio in Wisconsin casting Walker as a dirty-trickster in his own words, it might have worked.

ClevelandBronco
03-09-2011, 11:30 AM
“If Scott Walker really wants to negotiate, he should name a time and place and sit down with Democratic Senators.”

I wonder where the democrats would be willing to meet. I assume that they've already ruled out any venue inside the state of Wisconsin.

BucEyedPea
03-09-2011, 11:51 AM
Remains to be seen how the independents react the the compromise..... they're not polling favorably for Walker at the moment.

and how they view the millions of dollars in damage to the Wis Capital building by union protestors.

BucEyedPea
03-09-2011, 11:53 AM
From the sound of the article, the Democrats are not too excited about the proposed compromise...sounds like they want more. Perhaps Walker is floating this out there, thinking the Democrats would reject, so he can then show the public he was will to compromise...and that the Democrats wanted too much. This will allow him to say he tried, and will allow to resume his tough line once the Democrats formally reject the deal.

Yeah they could look even more like unreasonable and greedy Bolsheviks trying to take more money from the people, if they don't bite.

ROYC75
03-09-2011, 11:59 AM
It wouldn't have happened if the Dems didn't walk out. The dems will solidify their base, but I think Walker wins the middle. He's the only one who looks like an adult.


True, the 14 Dems went our kicking and screaming like children.
Sen. Bob Jauch, one of the 14 AWOL Democrats, said he hoped the compromise would serve as a blueprint for future negotiations.

Welcome to the "New" House and Senate ways to communicate.

dirk digler
03-09-2011, 12:18 PM
It wouldn't have happened if the Dems didn't walk out. The dems will solidify their base, but I think Walker wins the middle. He's the only one who looks like an adult.

Not really. The Dems got the high ground when they conceded all the financial cuts. So it was no longer about money it was about busting the unions which the public is against.

BucEyedPea
03-09-2011, 12:26 PM
Not really. The Dems got the high ground when they conceded all the financial cuts. So it was no longer about money it was about busting the unions which the public is against.

Some of the public.

Garcia Bronco
03-09-2011, 12:26 PM
He should cave, because this is a position he shouldn't have taken in the first place.

This guy sums it up pretty well:

http://rickkomer.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/the-republicans-are-blowing-it-for-2012/ (http://www.rickkomer.com/)

Two years into the Obama administration the Democratic party was in shambles. Because of the arrogance of the Obama administration and the passage of the hugely unpopular health care reform bill, Obama’s popularity was at near-historic lows. A majority of the American people sharply disagreed with the Democratic positions on a number of issues, but Obama insisted upon pushing his agenda anyway. Rather than working to achieve a bi-partisan consensus, he dismissed and disrespected the opposition with his now infamous quote “elections have consequences”. Democrats lost control of the Senate in the 2010 elections, and things were spiraling downhill for them.

It was a perfect opportunity for the Republican party. They regained control of the Senate in 2010, and they were a virtual shoo-in to regain control of the House in 2012. The chances were even pretty good that they could deny Obama a chance for a second term.

But then a funny thing happened on the way to the planned Republican landslide of 2012. Republican Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin needed to get major concessions from the public unions in order to reduce the state’s massive budget deficit. He proposed legislation that would require state employees to contribute to their own pension plans and to pay a larger portion of their health care costs. Those were perfectly reasonable positions for him to take because it would bring the state employees more closely in line with their counterparts in the private business world.

Scott Walker blew it though, when he insisted that part of the deal had to be that employees in public unions must lose the right to collectively bargain future benefits. He should have known that union members and all Democrats would ferociously oppose this. They correctly interpret this as an attack on unions in general.

Let’s face it. This is an attack on unions in general. This is also a lightning rod issue that will cost the Republicans dearly. Instead of an apathetic Democratic party spending their time and energy making excuses for Obama’s failure, you suddenly have an energetic and united Democratic party who can villify the Republicans for declaring war on unions in general.

They say that those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Apparently Scott Walker and the Republicans who have lined up to enthusiastically support him learned nothing from the troubles that Obama and the Democrats brought upon themselves. Obama and the Democrats insisted upon forcing their agenda down the throats of the opposition instead of seeking a compromise that everyone could live with. As a result, their hard-core supporters applauded them, the opposition criticized them vigorously, and the moderates were driven to the other side.

Scott Walker and the Republicans are now making the exact same mistake. This will cost the Republicans dearly, and will probably ensure Obama’s re-election in 2012.

Speaking as a Republican who wants to see Obama defeated in 2012, this makes me shake my head in dismay.

If every Union Employee both Private and Public voted that way then it would only account for 20 percent of the work force. And most would have already voted Democrat..so your articles assertions is superflous.

Garcia Bronco
03-09-2011, 12:28 PM
Not really. The Dems got the high ground when they conceded all the financial cuts. So it was no longer about money it was about busting the unions which the public is against.

Not even close.

dirk digler
03-09-2011, 12:31 PM
Some of the public.

If that makes you feel better :p

Amnorix
03-09-2011, 12:46 PM
If every Union Employee both Private and Public voted that way then it would only account for 20 percent of the work force. And most would have already voted Democrat..so your articles assertions is superflous.

If only 20% of the voting public supported unions, then your argument wouldn't be superfluous. But it's more than that so it is, if you follow me. ;)

Mr. Kotter
03-09-2011, 12:48 PM
LMAO

BucEyedPea
03-09-2011, 12:48 PM
If that makes you feel better :p

It does. Thank you very much for your concerns about my personal well being.:p

LOCOChief
03-09-2011, 01:55 PM
Not really. The Dems got the high ground when they conceded all the financial cuts. So it was no longer about money it was about busting the unions which the public is against.

I guess someone didn't read HonestChieffans thread "Wisconsin Gov exposes unions"

Collective bargaining is BS and if the "public" doesn't see it they are blind or stupid.or on the take themselves.

Where I come from you better earn it.

bevischief
03-09-2011, 02:21 PM
Why would they be? His concessions were minimal compared to his gains. The health insurance and pension issues are what is really bankrupting the state, not class size, hazardous duty pay, etc.

"Under the compromise floated by Walker and detailed in the e-mails, workers would be able to continue bargaining over their salaries with no limit, a change from his original plan that banned negotiated salary increases beyond inflation. He also proposed compromises allowing collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.

Increased contributions for health insurance and pension, projected to save the state $330 million by mid-2013, would remain. The unions and Democrats have agreed to those concessions to help balance a projected $3.6 billion budget shortfall."

They should have offered this instead of leaving the state.

mnchiefsguy
03-09-2011, 02:28 PM
They should have offered this instead of leaving the state.

I think if the Democrats do not accept this and return, things will swing back in favor of the Governor, especially if he starts publicizing the excesses of what is in many of those union contracts.

Garcia Bronco
03-09-2011, 02:36 PM
If only 20% of the voting public supported unions, then your argument wouldn't be superfluous. But it's more than that so it is, if you follow me. ;)

Most people don't agree with Unions in the first place without the distinction between Public and Private Unions.

Amnorix
03-09-2011, 02:48 PM
Most people don't agree with Unions in the first place without the distinction between Public and Private Unions.

I'm not sure the polling data supports you, but even if it does I don't believe it's a very wide gap.

healthpellets
03-09-2011, 03:26 PM
Why would they be? His concessions were minimal compared to his gains. The health insurance and pension issues are what is really bankrupting the state, not class size, hazardous duty pay, etc.

His concessions are simply what the unions already agreed to before the Dems walked.

healthpellets
03-09-2011, 03:28 PM
I wonder where the democrats would be willing to meet. I assume that they've already ruled out any venue inside the state of Wisconsin.

DEM senate leaders met with the SEN majority leader in Southern WI last week w/o being escorted to the Capitol by the State police.

so it doesn't much matter i'd assume.

healthpellets
03-09-2011, 03:29 PM
Remains to be seen how the independents react the the compromise..... they're not polling favorably for Walker at the moment.

who cares about polls regarding a guy that isn't up for reelection for the next three years?

dirk digler
03-09-2011, 03:31 PM
who cares about polls regarding a guy that isn't up for reelection for the next three years?

He better. They can do a recall after 1 year and I hear that is going to happen or attempt it anyway

mlyonsd
03-09-2011, 05:02 PM
From Fox News....sounds like the republicans are doing an end around by pulling the fiscal parts of the bill out but leaving the collective bargaining changes. If they do that they don't need a quorum to vote.

This thing might end tonight.

The Rick
03-09-2011, 05:04 PM
From Fox News....sounds like the republicans are doing an end around by pulling the fiscal parts of the bill out but leaving the collective bargaining changes. If they do that they don't need a quorum to vote.

This thing might end tonight.

Yep, this is exactly what's happening. Breaking here on the 6:00 news. So basically, Walker is doing the exact opposite of caving. :)

mlyonsd
03-09-2011, 05:10 PM
Yep, this is exactly what's happening. Breaking here on the 6:00 news. So basically, Walker is doing the exact opposite of caving. :)

Too funny. Guy has guts.

Bwana
03-09-2011, 05:18 PM
Yep, this is exactly what's happening. Breaking here on the 6:00 news. So basically, Walker is doing the exact opposite of caving. :)

Yep, nice to see at least one of these guys grow a set.

KC Dan
03-09-2011, 05:53 PM
Yep, that's what they did alright. Now the Democrat-less state Senate will vote on it. Hope they get a good meal at their Illinois hotel

http://www.channel3000.com/politics/27138601/detail.html

HonestChieffan
03-09-2011, 06:19 PM
Its a wrap....http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WISCONSIN_BUDGET_UNIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-09-19-27-44

The Mad Crapper
03-09-2011, 06:36 PM
Yep, that's what they did alright. Now the Democrat-less state Senate will vote on it. Hope they get a good meal at their Illinois hotel

http://www.channel3000.com/politics/27138601/detail.html

ROFL

Saul Good
03-09-2011, 06:46 PM
Gov. Walker is going to cave

...in the ceiling of the room below his bedroom when his giant balls hit the floor as he undresses for bed.

Bwana
03-09-2011, 06:48 PM
http://savethethread.com/2432839-got-herpes/page5_files/setsail-for-fail-thread.jpg

healthpellets
03-09-2011, 07:40 PM
...in the ceiling of the room below his bedroom when his giant balls hit the floor as he undresses for bed.

well played, Sir.

HonestChieffan
03-09-2011, 07:58 PM
Just looked at DU...the libs are calling for everything from soup to moonbat nuts...burn baby burn...riots....civility out the door.


Could be crazy time in Madison.

ChiefaRoo
03-09-2011, 08:21 PM
Just looked at DU...the libs are calling for everything from soup to moonbat nuts...burn baby burn...riots....civility out the door.


Could be crazy time in Madison.


Two words - water cannons.

HonestChieffan
03-09-2011, 08:28 PM
Two words - water cannons.

Maybe the border patrol could come in and shoot some beanbags. Fleebaggers, Teabaggers, BeanBaggers

BucEyedPea
03-09-2011, 09:57 PM
Just looked at DU...the libs are calling for everything from soup to moonbat nuts...burn baby burn...riots....civility out the door.


Could be crazy time in Madison.

Those Swedes are the New Greece.

JimBaker488
03-10-2011, 11:19 AM
He caved alright, right on top of the public union guys and their collective bargaining arrangements with their good-buddy Dem pols.
Gov Walker - you da man !

mnchiefsguy
03-10-2011, 11:20 AM
I think the Democrats got greedy, I think Walker would have made the deal had the Dems taken it...but they tried to push it and get more, and they pushed Walker and the GOP over the edge.

The Mad Crapper
03-10-2011, 12:49 PM
I think the Democrats got greedy

No doubt, they were done in by their own greed and lies.

Stinger
03-10-2011, 01:53 PM
This thread need to be renamed to:

Gov. Walker is going to cave "WITHIN TWO WEEKS"

The Mad Crapper
03-10-2011, 02:00 PM
This thread need to be renamed to:

Gov. Walker is going to cave "WITHIN TWO WEEKS"

ROFL