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Cave Johnson
03-11-2011, 10:47 AM
I'm sure it had nothing to do with the crossdressing. Nothing at all.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2011/03/man_in_womens_clothes_was_drag.html

Authorities are investigating whether an Arkansas man whose body was found dressed in women's clothes was targeted in part because of what he was wearing.

FBI spokesman Steve Frazier said Wednesday that federal investigators are looking into the death of 25-year-old Marcal Camero Tye as a civil rights matter. Local authorities say they haven't ruled out a hate crime, but they're also considering other motives.

Authorities believe that a car dragged Tye's body, dressed in women's slacks, a blouse and a bra, for about 100 feet along a highway near Forrest City, in eastern Arkansas. It's not clear whether the dragging killed him. Autopsy results weren't immediately available.

A driver spotted Tye's mangled body before sunrise Tuesday morning. Authorities also found a dark wig and shoes nearby.

Donger
03-11-2011, 10:50 AM
So, he was in drag?

AndChiefs
03-11-2011, 10:52 AM
So, he was in drag?

ba-da-ching!

http://attachments.techguy.org/attachments/168888d1271685384/muppet_animal.jpg

Predarat
03-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Clayyyyyyy, did you do this?

BigMeatballDave
03-11-2011, 10:53 AM
So, he was in drag?He was dragged in drag.

Sofa King
03-11-2011, 10:55 AM
So, he was in drag?

Well that was fast.


/thread

Donger
03-11-2011, 10:56 AM
Well that was fast.


/thread

I didn't really see any need to drag this thread out.

Pants
03-11-2011, 10:56 AM
Fucking inbred rednecks.

Cave Johnson
03-11-2011, 11:00 AM
I didn't really see any need to drag this thread out.

I bet the slacks covered the road rash nicely.

|Zach|
03-11-2011, 11:03 AM
yikes

Donger
03-11-2011, 11:03 AM
I bet the slacks covered the road rash nicely.

Wonder Bras really aren't that wonderful, apparently.

loochy
03-11-2011, 11:04 AM
I'm disappointed with the lack of witty comments so far. What a drag.

Saulbadguy
03-11-2011, 11:04 AM
So, he was in drag?

:LOL:

Saulbadguy
03-11-2011, 11:05 AM
I'm sure it had nothing to do with the crossdressing. Nothing at all.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2011/03/man_in_womens_clothes_was_drag.html

Authorities are investigating whether an Arkansas man whose body was found dressed in women's clothes was targeted in part because of what he was wearing.

FBI spokesman Steve Frazier said Wednesday that federal investigators are looking into the death of 25-year-old Marcal Camero Tye as a civil rights matter. Local authorities say they haven't ruled out a hate crime, but they're also considering other motives.

Authorities believe that a car dragged Tye's body, dressed in women's slacks, a blouse and a bra, for about 100 feet along a highway near Forrest City, in eastern Arkansas. It's not clear whether the dragging killed him. Autopsy results weren't immediately available.

A driver spotted Tye's mangled body before sunrise Tuesday morning. Authorities also found a dark wig and shoes nearby.

He would have fit in nicely at Chiefsplanet.

RIP :(

Donger
03-11-2011, 11:06 AM
****ing inbred rednecks.

I didn't see anything about him wearing a red neck scarf. I don't think they are in season yet.

DA_T_84
03-11-2011, 11:06 AM
Its 2011. Fucking inbred hicks.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 11:07 AM
He was dragged in drag.

What a drag.

loochy
03-11-2011, 11:07 AM
Its 2011. Fucking inbred hicks.

Yeah, it IS 2011.

What does that have to do with hicks?

DA_T_84
03-11-2011, 11:10 AM
Yeah, it IS 2011.

What does that have to do with hicks?

That in 2011, trashy, racist, homophobic fucks (people who did this), should be tolerant enough to know better.

Donger
03-11-2011, 11:11 AM
That in 2011, trashy, racist, homophobic ****s (people who did this), should be tolerant enough to know better.

Racist?

LMAO

loochy
03-11-2011, 11:12 AM
That in 2011, trashy, racist, homophobic fucks (people who did this), should be tolerant enough to know better.

I think there will be folks like for as long as humanity continues.

I just wish that our justice system allowed for harsher punishments...kind of an eye for an eye thing. We can't get rid of the feelings, but we sure can deter actions.

DA_T_84
03-11-2011, 11:13 AM
Racist?

LMAO

What, either way they're from arkansas: white (homophobic and racist) or black (homophobic and racist).

Cave Johnson
03-11-2011, 11:14 AM
Racist?

LMAO

The chances a person with the name Marcal Camero Tye is white is -25%.

DA_T_84
03-11-2011, 11:14 AM
What, either way they're from arkansas: white (homophobic and racist) or black (homophobic and racist).

And yeah, I'm shitting on Arkansas. So I'm state-ist.

loochy
03-11-2011, 11:15 AM
The chances a person with the name Marcal Camero Tye is white is -25%.

I don't know...his name is Camero...I think a white trash might like to try to name their son after their favorite car and spell it wrong.

Donger
03-11-2011, 11:15 AM
What, either way they're from arkansas: white (homophobic and racist) or black (homophobic and racist).

Yeah, that's not presumptuous at all.

loochy
03-11-2011, 11:15 AM
And yeah, I'm shitting on Arkansas. So I'm state-ist.

Dude, its 2011. I can't believe we still have stateist trash like you around.

Demonpenz
03-11-2011, 11:16 AM
Maybe he's was dragged with with it. Maybe it's Maybelline.

DA_T_84
03-11-2011, 11:17 AM
Dude, its 2011. I can't believe we still have stateist trash like you around.

heh. It's very 1950's of me, no?

Cave Johnson
03-11-2011, 11:17 AM
I don't know...his name is Camero...I think a white trash might like to try to name their son after their favorite car and spell it wrong.

Definitely black. And, potentially, the victim of a serial killer.

http://www.dallasvoice.com/fbi-involved-tye-murder-investigation-1068171.html

DA_T_84
03-11-2011, 11:17 AM
Yeah, that's not presumptuous at all.

I'm promiscuous, as well.

DA_T_84
03-11-2011, 11:18 AM
I don't know...his name is Camero...I think a white trash might like to try to name their son after their favorite car and spell it wrong.

Probably a Chiefs fan, too.

Fucking Raider fans. Get with the times.

Otter
03-11-2011, 11:28 AM
Neither party is going to win a common sense award any time soon. Lot's of dumb to go around in this story.

Pitt Gorilla
03-11-2011, 11:29 AM
Neither party is going to win a common sense award any time soon. Lot's of dumb to go around in this story.To which parties are you referring?

Otter
03-11-2011, 11:33 AM
To which parties are you referring?

The cross dresser and the ones who dragged him thru the streets.

Al Bundy
03-11-2011, 11:33 AM
Maybe he's was dragged with with it. Maybe it's Maybelline.

ROFL

Reaper16
03-11-2011, 11:37 AM
The cross dresser and the ones who dragged him thru the streets.
...

loochy
03-11-2011, 11:37 AM
To which parties are you referring?

the ongoing party at Charlie Sheen's house.

ReynardMuldrake
03-11-2011, 11:44 AM
Neither party is going to win a common sense award any time soon. Lot's of dumb to go around in this story.

You realize this is a murder case, right? The person who shot that dude in the head twice with a .32 was just being 'dumb'?

Valiant
03-11-2011, 11:45 AM
Sucks. But maybe they where having a tug of war contest andhis camero was not strong enough.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 11:50 AM
You realize this is a murder case, right? The person who shot that dude in the head twice with a .32 was just being 'dumb'?

I think the entire BB would admit it was dumb, what's your point?

loochy
03-11-2011, 11:50 AM
You realize this is a murder case, right? The person who shot that dude in the head twice with a .32 was just being 'dumb'?

Well it wasn't exactly smart...

Cave Johnson
03-11-2011, 11:57 AM
The cross dresser and the ones who dragged him thru the streets.

I say this with all due respect. F off.

Absent any other provocative act (and there's no evidence of such at present), dressing in drag is in no way equivalent to shooting someone in the head and dragging the body.

Pants
03-11-2011, 12:03 PM
I say this with all due respect. F off.

Absent any other provocative act (and there's no evidence of such at present), dressing in drag is in no way equivalent to shooting someone in the head and dragging the body.

Obviously, in Otter's world, if you're a male and decide to dress like a woman, you're dumb and just asking to be killed and dragged across a highway.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:10 PM
Obviously, in Otter's world, if you're a male and decide to dress like a woman, you're dumb and just asking to be killed and dragged across a highway.

The thread title's wrong, anyway. She was transexual.

Edit: I realize this info came after the thread was made, BTW.

BigCatDaddy
03-11-2011, 12:11 PM
Anyone seen Ultra Peanut?

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 12:12 PM
I say this with all due respect. F off.

Absent any other provocative act (and there's no evidence of such at present), dressing in drag is in no way equivalent to shooting someone in the head and dragging the body.


Obviously, in Otter's world, if you're a male and decide to dress like a woman, you're dumb and just asking to be killed and dragged across a highway.

This place is a trip sometimes. He never said they were equivalent. There is nothing obvious about your post Pants. Even in the wildest stretch you can't come up with that shit.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 12:14 PM
Anyone seen Ultra Peanut?

Last I heard he was titty fucking himself. Gotta hand it to the guy, he doesn't even have to leave the house to get some action.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-11-2011, 12:14 PM
This place is a trip sometimes. He never said they were equivalent. There is nothing obvious about your post Pants. Even in the wildest stretch you can't come up with that shit.

That's exactly what was inferred.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-11-2011, 12:15 PM
Last I heard he was titty fucking himself. Gotta hand it to the guy, he doesn't even have to leave the house to get some action.

It's gonna be fucking hilarious if your kid turns out gay.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:15 PM
Neither party is going to win a common sense award any time soon. Lot's of dumb to go around in this story.

Just like when that n*gger Till flirted with the white girl. Understandable he got shot, right? Both sides to blame.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 12:16 PM
That's exactly what was inferred.

Obviously it isn't real smart to be a cross dresser in Arkansas. That's all that's there. All the rest is a personal attack with no basis.

Lzen
03-11-2011, 12:17 PM
I think its a little premature to assume this was a hate crime.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:17 PM
I say this with all due respect. F off.

Absent any other provocative act (and there's no evidence of such at present), dressing in drag is in no way equivalent to shooting someone in the head and dragging the body.

Oh, I wasn't measuring or comparing the levels of stupidity of either party. Just saying that both acts by both parties involved stupidity. Or would it make you feel better if I worded it 'unsound judgement' when reffering to the cross dresser?

I've never been to Forrest City, AR (deep south, population ~14,000 with a crime rate x2 of the national average) but it doesn't strike me as a town where it's a good idea to cross dress and not expect any problems. I'm guessing Forrest City, AR doesn't have a big gay scene and deciding to dress up in 'woman's slacks, a blouse and a bra' and hit the town might be asking for trouble.

I don't put my white ass in east Baltimore after dark in my kahkis, merrell sandels and bowling shirt because I know bad things are very likely to come out of it. Neither are a smart move from where I stand but I guess common sense isn't a big commodity right now and being a black, cross dresser automatically makes him a martyr.

I'll assume I don't have to explain the other parties stupidity.

Brock
03-11-2011, 12:18 PM
I think its a little premature to assume this was a hate crime.

lolwut

Lzen
03-11-2011, 12:19 PM
I think its a little premature to assume this was a hate crime.

And, quite frankly, the people who assume that it was a hate crime and that everyone from Arkansas is some bigot murderer are just as bigoted as those they accuse.

kstater
03-11-2011, 12:19 PM
Yeah, that's not presumptuous at all.

And yet 100% true.

Lzen
03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
lolwut

I know what it looks like. But that doesn't mean it is a hate crime. For all we know the murderer and the murdered had some relationship which turned for the worse. At least wait for the details to come out before making that assumption.

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
So, are you offended people stating that it IS good common sense to be a cross-dresser in rural Arkansas?

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
Obviously it isn't real smart to be a cross dresser in Arkansas. That's all that's there. All the rest is a personal attack with no basis.

Hey man, whenever you have a chance to cast blame on a murder victim, you pretty much have to make that call.

It's obvious that the victim was asking for it. If not, they wouldn't have put on that dress.

I guess the deceased is lucky not to have been raped by a pack of niggers before being dragged to death.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
That's exactly what was inferred.

No, it wasn't at all you dolt. That's what you wanted me to say.

Brock
03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
And, quite frankly, the people who assume that it was a hate crime and that everyone from Arkansas is some bigot murderer are just as bigoted as those they accuse.

Pretty much everyone in this thread realizes it was a hate crime, even those who are saying he pretty much got what he deserved.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
I'll assume I don't have to explain the other parties stupidity.

Is "stupid" the word you typically associate with a murder? Typically, I think "horrific" or "evil" or "shocking."

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
I know what it looks like. But that doesn't mean it is a hate crime. For all we know the murderer and the murdered had some relationship which turned for the worse. At least wait for the details to come out before making that assumption.

Nah, why do that?

However, Bobby May, sheriff of St. Francis County where Tye was killed, said the dragging appears not to have been intentional.

Brock
03-11-2011, 12:21 PM
Nah, why do that?

However, Bobby May, sheriff of St. Francis County where Tye was killed, said the dragging appears not to have been intentional.

He said, as he spit a giant stream of red man juice on the sidewalk.

kstater
03-11-2011, 12:22 PM
And, quite frankly, the people who assume that it was a hate crime and that everyone from Arkansas is some bigot murderer are just as bigoted as those they accuse.

I wouldn't say everyone, but it's not a small number here.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:22 PM
Is "stupid" the word you typically associate with a murder? Typically, I think "horrific" or "evil" or "shocking."

But not "stupid"?

ReynardMuldrake
03-11-2011, 12:23 PM
Oh, I wasn't measuring or comparing the levels of stupidity of either party. Just saying that both acts by both parties involved stupidity. Or would it make you feel better if I worded it 'unsound judgement' when reffering to the cross dresser?


You were making a comparison, it's OK though if you want to backpedal from it.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:24 PM
But not "stupid"?

No. In fact, some murders can be very well calculated.

Lzen
03-11-2011, 12:24 PM
Pretty much everyone in this thread realizes it was a hate crime, even those who are saying he pretty much got what he deserved.

Thank God our justice system doesn't work that way. I mean I agree that is what it looks like. But they don't have any witnesses or suspects as of yet. For all we know this person promised sex acts for money and didn't perform after being paid and the person went berserk and shot him/her. I think you are smarter than you are acting at this moment.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:25 PM
So, are you offended people stating that it IS good common sense to be a cross-dresser in rural Arkansas?

Have you ever been to rural Arkansas? I haven't. I assume it is sparsely populated with Evangelical Baptists.

Brock
03-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Thank God our justice system doesn't work that way. I mean I agree that is what it looks like. But they don't have any witnesses or suspects as of yet. For all we know this person promised sex acts for money and didn't perform after being paid and the person went berserk and shot him/her. I think you are smarter than you are acting at this moment.

Yeah, I'm making some assumptions with the limited information available, but I think you'd agree that 99 percent of the time, it is what it looks like.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Hey man, whenever you have a chance to cast blame on a murder victim, you pretty much have to make that call.

It's obvious that the victim was asking for it. If not, they wouldn't have put on that dress.

I guess the deceased is lucky not to have been raped by a pack of ****ers before being dragged to death.

The facts are the facts I'm sorry if they are not PC enough for you. You like putting words in there like "asking for it" to make it look lame but the truth is he definatley put himself in a very bad situation and that wasn't exactly smart. All the rest is your own PC BS

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Thank God our justice system doesn't work that way. I mean I agree that is what it looks like. But they don't have any witnesses or suspects as of yet. For all we know this person promised sex acts for money and didn't perform after being paid and the person went berserk and shot him/her. I think you are smarter than you are acting at this moment.

The thing is, it's very reasonable to think this was because he was a cross-dresser. Just like a Muslim in Arab clothing and a full beard, snooping around an airport, looking fidgety, and holding a Koran would make someone reasonably cautious of their future actions.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:30 PM
No. In fact, some murders can be very well calculated.

So the murder in this case was "smart"?

Smart is the opposite of stupid after all.

This twisting words is fucking neat, why be genuine and truthful when I can twist words in an attempt to manipulate the subject to my standards.

Lzen
03-11-2011, 12:31 PM
The thing is, it's very reasonable to think this was because he was a cross-dresser. Just like a Muslim in Arab clothing and a full beard, snooping around an airport, looking fidgety, and holding a Koran would make someone reasonably cautious of their future actions.

Oh certainly. But what happens when you discover that said Muslim was just looking around for his daughter and that, after a thorough background check, you find out that he is clean? Were you ready to string him up like a lot of folks in this thread?

Of course the person who did this needs to go to prison for murder. But hate crime? We'll see. I know what it looks like. And that may be what it was. But I'm not ready to assume that just yet considering that the sheriff suggested the dragging was not intentional.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:32 PM
So, are you offended people stating that it IS good common sense to be a cross-dresser in rural Arkansas?

I wonder if a defense attorney would ever make that argument. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that cross-dresser wasn't using common sense. This is Arkansas! You know you're not supposed to be prancing around like that."

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:33 PM
You were making a comparison, it's OK though if you want to backpedal from it.

A comparison that there was stupidity involved in both parties. Not backing away from it at all.

Sorry if I hurt your collective PC chafed asses.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Obviously it isn't real smart to be a cross dresser in Arkansas. That's all that's there. All the rest is a personal attack with no basis.

It's not real smart to be black in certain areas of this country. Is that stupid too? Jesus.

Maybe this wasn't a hate crime, but if it was it was not brought on by her stupidity. It happened purely through hate.

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Have you ever been to rural Arkansas? I haven't. I assume it is sparsely populated with Evangelical Baptists.

Yes.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:35 PM
So the murder in this case was "smart"?

Smart is the opposite of stupid after all.

This twisting words is ****ing neat, why be genuine and truthful when I can twist words in an attempt to manipulate the subject to my standards.

It might be smart, it might be stupid. But I'm wondering why that is your first reaction: "A murder? Oh, that was stupid."

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:35 PM
I wonder if a defense attorney would ever make that argument. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that cross-dresser wasn't using common sense. This is Arkansas! You know you're not supposed to be prancing around like that."

"And why did this girl think she had a right to wear that dress to a bar. She practically raped herself!"

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:35 PM
I wonder if a defense attorney would ever make that argument. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that cross-dresser wasn't using common sense. This is Arkansas! You know you're not supposed to be prancing around like that."

I don't believe Otter was making that argument.

So, is being a cross-dresser in rural Arkansas "common sense"?

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:35 PM
I wonder if a defense attorney would ever make that argument. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that cross-dresser wasn't using common sense. This is Arkansas! You know you're not supposed to be prancing around like that."

Jenson, PM your phone number. I'll take you to east Baltimore dressed like a suburban college boy. I'll drop you off three blocks from where I'll meet you and if you make it I'll give you $1000.

Any witness you want can come along.

Put your way of thinking to the test.

|Zach|
03-11-2011, 12:35 PM
"And why did this girl think she had a right to wear that dress to a bar. She practically raped herself!"

LMAO

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:36 PM
Oh certainly. But what happens when you discover that said Muslim was just looking around for his daughter and that, after a thorough background check, you find out that he is clean? Were you ready to string him up like a lot of folks in this thread?

Of course the person who did this needs to go to prison for murder. But hate crime? We'll see. I know what it looks like. And that may be what it was. But I'm not ready to assume that just yet considering that the sheriff suggested the dragging was not intentional.

Speaking for myself, if all the evidence came out that the dragging was unintentional, then I would not hesitate in refraining from negatively judging the suspect.

Pitt Gorilla
03-11-2011, 12:37 PM
Obviously it isn't real smart to be a cross dresser in Arkansas. That's all that's there. All the rest is a personal attack with no basis.Is it smart to be a female in Arkansas? I mean, are they just asking to be raped?

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:37 PM
"And why did this girl think she had a right to wear that dress to a bar. She practically raped herself!"

Think of it this way: If a Chiefs fan wears a Chiefs jersey at the Black Hole and does NOT expect to get crap, is he exercising common sense?

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:38 PM
Is it smart to be a female in Arkansas? I mean, are they just asking to be raped?

You're invited to take part in offer to Jenson in post #84 too Pitt. Put your money where your mouth is.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 12:39 PM
It's not real smart to be black in certain areas of this country. Is that stupid too? Jesus.

Maybe this wasn't a hate crime, but if it was it was not brought on by her stupidity. It happened purely through hate.

I was unaware there was a her involved. I like how you try to inject race into this too. Friggen ridiculous. I am white and if I go to Hunters Point out here at night on foot and get killed I certainly am not "asking for it" as you PC types like to put it but it would be a very dumb thing to do. Why is this so hard for you guys to grasp?

kstater
03-11-2011, 12:40 PM
Only on chiefsplanet.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:40 PM
It might be smart, it might be stupid. But I'm wondering why that is your first reaction: "A murder? Oh, that was stupid."

I assumed this person was murdered because of his appearance. Does that not qualify as "stupid"?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:40 PM
Jenson, PM your phone number. I'll take you to east Baltimore dressed like a suburban college boy. I'll drop you off three blocks from where I'll meet you and if you make it I'll give you $1000.

Any witness you want can come along.

Put your way of thinking to the test.

Let's do this.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:42 PM
Jenson, PM your phone number. I'll take you to east Baltimore dressed like a suburban college boy. I'll drop you off three blocks from where I'll meet you and if you make it I'll give you $1000.

Any witness you want can come along.

Put your way of thinking to the test.

Ridiculous. This is assuming the victim traveled to Arkansas just to push her limits. I am under the reasonable assumption that she lived there. This was obviously her way of life and she has a right to live it. Sure it probably would have been better for her to live elsewhere, but we have no idea what her circumstances were and if that was even possible. Impugning her intelligence over it is completely unfair.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:43 PM
Let's do this.

Good with me.

Saturday Night, I get to pick the three blocks. Simple as that.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:43 PM
I don't believe Otter was making that argument.

So, is being a cross-dresser in rural Arkansas "common sense"?

I'm not able to condemn rural Arkansas as being of the sort of place in which cross-dressers should expect to be seriously injured or killed due to cross-dressing.

And I don't think the common sense is relevant here. What's relevant here is that someone likely murdered another for being a cross-dresser or gay person.

Brock
03-11-2011, 12:44 PM
Good with me.

Saturday Night, I get to pick the three blocks. Simple as that.

When was the last time a white person got killed in east Baltimore?

loochy
03-11-2011, 12:44 PM
This thread reminds me of the thread about the pretty blond news reporter that got gang raped in Egypt.

What ever happened with that, anyway?

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:44 PM
Ridiculous. This is assuming the victim traveled to Arkansas just to push her limits. I am under the reasonable assumption that she lived there. This was obviously her way of life and she has a right to live it. Sure it probably would have been better for her to live elsewhere, but we have no idea what her circumstances were and if that was even possible. Impugning her intelligence over it is completely unfair.

Then go dress up in drag and hit the town in Forrest City, AR in his memory.

Pitt Gorilla
03-11-2011, 12:45 PM
Jenson, PM your phone number. I'll take you to east Baltimore dressed like a suburban college boy. I'll drop you off three blocks from where I'll meet you and if you make it I'll give you $1000.

Any witness you want can come along.

Put your way of thinking to the test.I'd feel far safer in Baltimore where I have friends than with you having access to my phone number, quite honestly.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:45 PM
When was the last time a white person got killed in east Baltimore?

I don't know.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:45 PM
I was unaware there was a her involved. I like how you try to inject race into this too. Friggen ridiculous. I am white and if I go to Hunters Point out here at night on foot and get killed I certainly am not "asking for it" as you PC types like to put it but it would be a very dumb thing to do. Why is this so hard for you guys to grasp?

I'm only bringing race into because for most people has finally become an unacceptable thing to discriminate based on. Sexual orientation and sexual identity are still fair game to many. (Not necessarily you)

And she was transgender so "she" and "her" are appropriate.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:45 PM
Good with me.

Saturday Night, I get to pick the three blocks. Simple as that.

No, I can't make it this Saturday. Plus, you have to pay my ticket to Baltimore. And I walk on a Tuesday morning before sunrise.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 12:45 PM
Is it smart to be a female in Arkansas? I mean, are they just asking to be raped?

You guys are truly unbelievable. Just keep trying to shove that PC square block through that round hole. You want to believe what he did was smart knock yourself out. I couldn't be anymore clear. I love the race/gender card using blacks and women and the asking for it line, classic. LMAO

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:46 PM
I'd feel far safer in Baltimore where I have friends than with you having access to my phone number, quite honestly.

That's what I thought.

Ugly Duck
03-11-2011, 12:46 PM
I think you are smarter than you are acting at this moment.

I find your optimism refreshing....

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:47 PM
Then go dress up in drag and hit the town in Forrest City, AR in his memory.

If you were on a jury, and you knew it was an intentional dragging, which way would you come out?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:48 PM
You guys are truly unbelievable. Just keep trying to shove that PC square block through that round hole. You want to believe what he did was smart knock yourself out. I couldn't be anymore clear. I love the race/gender card using blacks and women and the asking for it line, classic. LMAO

You're on the jury, Big Daddy. The defendent is charged with homicide. The evidence leads you to believe that the dragging was intentional. Which way do you vote?

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:48 PM
If you were on a jury, and you knew it was an intentional dragging, which way would you come out?

Do you mean guilty or not guilty?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:48 PM
Do you mean guilty or not guilty?

Yes.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:48 PM
Then go dress up in drag and hit the town in Forrest City, AR in his memory.

So let's say a contingent of people started living around you that hated whatever race or religion you are. You're just living there, going about your business. Does it then become stupid for you to not move somewhere else? It's not like transgender folks are shot and dragged everyday in AR.

Rausch
03-11-2011, 12:49 PM
Authorities believe that a car dragged Tye's body, dressed in women's slacks, a blouse and a bra, for about 100 feet along a highway near Forrest City, in eastern Arkansas. It's not clear whether the dragging killed him.

Really?...

Pitt Gorilla
03-11-2011, 12:49 PM
You guys are truly unbelievable. Just keep trying to shove that PC square block through that round hole. You want to believe what he did was smart knock yourself out. I couldn't be anymore clear. I love the race/gender card using blacks and women and the asking for it line, classic. LMAOI'm not sure how smart or stupid play into this at all. The person, evidently, was simply being and, apparently, not harming anyone.

It's not like he was guilty of being a ginger on the playground, or something.

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:49 PM
You're on the jury, Big Daddy. The defendent is charged with homicide. The evidence leads you to believe that the dragging was intentional. Which way do you vote?

Is funny an option?

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:49 PM
Really?...

It was apparently shot first.

Brock
03-11-2011, 12:50 PM
I don't know.

Well, maybe it's not as dangerous as you think.

Pitt Gorilla
03-11-2011, 12:50 PM
That's what I thought.Yeah, you certainly showed me. You and KC Johnny rule the school.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:50 PM
Is funny an option?

You're on the jury, Donger. Evidence leads you to believe the dragging was intentional. Which way you go: guilty or not guilty of homicide?

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:50 PM
You guys are truly unbelievable. Just keep trying to shove that PC square block through that round hole. You want to believe what he did was smart knock yourself out. I couldn't be anymore clear. I love the race/gender card using blacks and women and the asking for it line, classic. LMAO

Okay. So you think if someone is hated by their neighbors it is on them to move elsewhere to live their life or they are deemed stupid? (See no race card!)

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:51 PM
Yes.

Guilty of course.

Jenson, I'm not judging the guys character AT ALL. I'm judging the common sense he used in the situation. Just because it shouldn't have happened doesn't mean it's not going to for the love of God. If he was your son and he laid his plans out for that night would you have given him the "OK" to carry it out?

Rausch
03-11-2011, 12:51 PM
So, right now, all we know is that a cross-dressing man was killed?

Yes?

Could have been his pimp, his lover, his neighbor tired of hearing $3itty salsa music, a person he owed money to, his father-N-law, etc.

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:53 PM
You're on the jury, Donger. Evidence leads you to believe the dragging was intentional. Which way you go: guilty or not guilty of homicide?

I'm not sure why you are hung up on the dragging, honestly.

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:54 PM
So, right now, all we know is that a cross-dressing man was killed?

Yes?

Could have been his pimp, his lover, his neighbor tired of hearing $3itty salsa music, a person he owed money to, his father-N-law, etc.

Correct, but don't spread that around. It makes the under 30 crowd feel better if they defend something that may not have even been pertinent.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:54 PM
Guilty of course.

Good. To me, I think some people will blame this entirely on the victim. I'm glad you wouldn't go that far.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:54 PM
So, right now, all we know is that a cross-dressing man was killed?

Yes?

Could have been his pimp, his lover, his neighbor tired of hearing $3itty salsa music, a person he owed money to, his father-N-law, etc.

True. Most argument in here is under the assumption it was a hate crime. Don't know either way yet.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:54 PM
Yeah, you certainly showed me. You and KC Johnny rule the school.

Go rub some aloe on your hiney.

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:55 PM
Good. To me, I think some people will blame this entirely on the victim. I'm glad you wouldn't go that far.

Could you answer my question please?

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 12:55 PM
I'm not sure how smart or stupid play into this at all. The person, evidently, was simply being and, apparently, not harming anyone.

It's not like he was guilty of being a ginger on the playground, or something.

Like I said earlier, if my cracker ass walks into Hunters Point at night just simply being me and not harming anyone and I get killed I may not deserve it but I would have to be a friggen idiot to do it. If that doesn't fit in your PC comfort zone put on the PC goggles and reword it. That still doesn't change a thing. I think you know that already though. You just need someone to point your finger at and say "that's the bad guy" because it doesn't fit you PC dogma.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 12:55 PM
Correct, but don't spread that around. It makes the under 30 crowd feel better if they defend something that may not have even been pertinent.

Honestly I just think it's silly to expect someone to move out of state in order to live their constitutionally protected lifestyle. Especially when we don't know their means, family situation, etc. I think that regardless of it's relevance to this case.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:57 PM
Guilty of course.

Jenson, I'm not judging the guys character AT ALL. I'm judging the common sense he used in the situation. Just because it shouldn't have happened doesn't mean it's not going to for the love of God. If he was your son and he laid his plans out for that night would you have given him the "OK" to carry it out?

Maybe there was a lack of "common sense" in some way. But I don't see why anyone needs to put that on par with a supposed lack of common sense of the possible murderer.

We have a situation where a cross dresser is dragged to death. It's very possible that it was intentional. That's murder. And possibly for only having some deviant sexual/gender issue.

That's morally outrageous and people should condemn the murderer rather than equalizing the faults of the parties.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 12:57 PM
Okay. So you think if someone is hated by their neighbors it is on them to move elsewhere to live their life or they are deemed stupid? (See no race card!)

For me to be looking for housing in Hunters Point would be stupid as well.

Donger
03-11-2011, 12:58 PM
Honestly I just think it's silly to expect someone to move out of state in order to live their constitutionally protected lifestyle. Especially when we don't know their means, family situation, etc. I think that regardless of it's relevance to this case.

I don't expect that either.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 12:58 PM
Like I said earlier, if my cracker ass walks into Hunters Point at night just simply being me and not harming anyone and I get killed I may not deserve it but I would have to be a friggen idiot to do it. If that doesn't fit in your PC comfort zone put on the PC goggles and reword it. That still doesn't change a thing. I think you know that already though. You just need someone to point your finger at and say "that's the bad guy" because it doesn't fit you PC dogma.

Someone murderering another person is the bad guy. That's the bad guy because he is a murderer. The "blame" scale is drastically tipped on the side of the murderer. Is that politically correct?

Otter
03-11-2011, 12:59 PM
Maybe there was a lack of "common sense" in some way. But I don't see why anyone needs to put that on par with a supposed lack of common sense of the possible murderer.

You're putting words in my mouth again. For **** sake you're like talking to a woman. Grow up and put your agenda a side for 2 seconds.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:00 PM
For me to be looking for housing in Hunters Point would be stupid as well.

Not what I asked. You live there already. And for the purposes of this hypothetical you have your whole life. You have family there and you don't make a lot of money.

Sometimes people don't sit back and choose where they live. Maybe that's not the case here, but assuming someone is stupid because they were in a bad situation is a pretty unfair leap.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:00 PM
I may not deserve it

The pertinent word is bolded. The appalled here seem to be presuming Otter meant this.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:01 PM
You're putting words in my mouth again. For **** sake you're like talking to a woman. Grow up and put your agenda a side for 2 seconds.

What was the point of your post 33? Was it not to place some blame on the cross-dresser for the events?

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:01 PM
Like I said earlier, if my cracker ass walks into Hunters Point at night just simply being me and not harming anyone and I get killed I may not deserve it but I would have to be a friggen idiot to do it. If that doesn't fit in your PC comfort zone put on the PC goggles and reword it. That still doesn't change a thing. I think you know that already though. You just need someone to point your finger at and say "that's the bad guy" because it doesn't fit you PC dogma.

How many people have been the victim of hate crimes of any sort in Forrest City, AR? Is there a precedent Ms. Tye should have recognized?

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:01 PM
The pertinent word is bolded. The appalled here seem to be presuming Otter meant this.

I don't think that at all.

loochy
03-11-2011, 01:02 PM
That's morally outrageous and people should condemn the murderer rather than equalizing the faults of the parties.

We do. Everyone does. That goes without saying. We all know that murdering is bad and wrong and evil. That doesn't need to be discussed.

People bring up the other side because if people used a little more common sense, travesties could perhaps be avoided.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:03 PM
The pertinent word is bolded. The appalled here seem to be presuming Otter meant this.

How much blame do you place on the cross-dresser if it turns out this was a hate crime?

Rausch
03-11-2011, 01:04 PM
True. Most argument in here is under the assumption it was a hate crime. Don't know either way yet.

I just know it was some hate filled cracker!:cuss:

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:04 PM
How much blame do you place on the cross-dresser if it turns out this was a hate crime?

I can't answer that.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:05 PM
How much blame do you place on the cross-dresser if it turns out this was a hate crime?

This is more to my point. I don't think anyone in this thread thinks she "deserved" it. I think some think it was partially her fault for putting herself in that position. I vehemently disagree.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:06 PM
We do. Everyone does. That goes without saying. We all know that murdering is bad and wrong and evil. That doesn't need to be discussed.

People bring up the other side because if people used a little more common sense, travesties could perhaps be avoided.

Would you agree that we need to point out the blameworthiness of the victim so future cross-dressing travesties can be avoided, then?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:07 PM
I can't answer that.

What essential facts are missing for you, so you could answer it?

kstater
03-11-2011, 01:07 PM
This is more to my point. I don't think anyone in this thread thinks she "deserved" it. .

Don't kid yourself, there's at least one person who thinks it was justified.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:08 PM
This is more to my point. I don't think anyone in this thread thinks she "deserved" it. I think some think it was partially her fault for putting herself in that position. I vehemently disagree.

My point too, but I'm concerned there are some people who would want to see the murderer acquitted.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:08 PM
Don't kid yourself, there's at least one person who thinks it was justified.

Well lets just say I'm assuming no one does until they make it clear otherwise.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:09 PM
What essential facts are missing for you, so you could answer it?

Well, some essential facts would be nice, yes.

For instance, was it sitting in its home and dragged out of the house?

Did it go on a date with some guy without the guy knowing that it was an it?

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:10 PM
I just know it was some hate filled cracker!:cuss:

Actually it will probably be some other black transsexual and certain posters will come back to this thread to laugh at all of the PC losers as if that has anything to do with the point.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Well, some essential facts would be nice, yes.

For instance, was it sitting in its home and dragged out of the house?

Did it go on a date with some guy without the guy knowing that it was an it?

Let's assume the person's cross dressing was publicly known, but that the victim and the killer had never met personally before.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:12 PM
My point too, but I'm concerned there are some people who would want to see the murderer acquitted.

Like I said, I'm just going to assume no one is that awful until they give me clear reason to believe it.

alanm
03-11-2011, 01:13 PM
Correct, but don't spread that around. It makes the under 30 crowd feel better if they defend something that may not have even been pertinent.There could be a 1000 reasons why this person was killed. Being a cross dresser not even making the list.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:14 PM
We do. Everyone does. That goes without saying. We all know that murdering is bad and wrong and evil. That doesn't need to be discussed.

People bring up the other side because if people used a little more common sense, travesties could perhaps be avoided.

And it's worth pointing out that although some of us are making the assumption that this was a hate crime, Otter made the assumption that there was no common sense involved here.

There are missing facts, and this discussion is built with assumptions. Some are very reasonable, others not so, and others irrelevant.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:14 PM
Let's assume the person's cross dressing was publicly known, but that the victim and the killer had never met personally before.

Insufficient information.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:15 PM
There could be a 1000 reasons why this person was killed. Being a cross dresser not even making the list.

Yes, I know.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:15 PM
There could be a 1000 reasons why this person was killed. Being a cross dresser not even making the list.

But it's likely that cross dressing or deviancy was the reason.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 01:15 PM
Not what I asked. You live there already. And for the purposes of this hypothetical you have your whole life. You have family there and you don't make a lot of money.

Sometimes people don't sit back and choose where they live. Maybe that's not the case here, but assuming someone is stupid because they were in a bad situation is a pretty unfair leap.

I have been crystal clear on my position over and over and over again. I am not going to keep going 500 miles down HWY. hypothetical so you can try and make some PC point. I think anyone who has not sold out to PC dogmatic thought gets it.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 01:16 PM
What essential facts are missing for you, so you could answer it?

All of them.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:16 PM
Otter made the assumption that there was no common sense involved here.

No he didn't.

Bob Dole
03-11-2011, 01:17 PM
How much blame do you place on the cross-dresser if it turns out this was a hate crime?

You know...as opposed to it turning out to be a love crime.

Bob Dole absolutely fucking HATES the whole concept of "hate crime".

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:17 PM
But it's likely that cross dressing or deviancy was the reason.

Why is that?

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:17 PM
I have been crystal clear on my position over and over and over again. I am not going to keep going 500 miles down HWY. hypothetical so you can try and make some PC point. I think anyone who has not sold out to PC dogmatic thought gets it.

No you haven't been clear. You are saying you wouldn't go to some place that you knew to be dangerous. That is completely different than saying someone should move from their home because they are hated for what they are. You can dismiss me as a PC nutjob all you want. It doesn't make your argument more sound.

jiveturkey
03-11-2011, 01:18 PM
In the end will it matter?

If and when they find the people that did this won't their punishment be pretty steep regardless of their reasoning?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:18 PM
Insufficient information.

Can you give me a scenario in which the dead person should be morally blamed for his deviancy?

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-11-2011, 01:18 PM
It's not exactly a hard definition to understand.

alanm
03-11-2011, 01:19 PM
But it's likely that cross dressing or deviancy was the reason.Why are you rooting for this to be a hate crime?

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:19 PM
Can you give me a scenario in which the dead person should be morally blamed for his deviancy?

Blamed 100%? No.

A little blame? Sure, the above date scenario.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:19 PM
No he didn't.

Little common sense.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:20 PM
Little common sense.

There you go.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:20 PM
You know...as opposed to it turning out to be a love crime.

Bob Dole absolutely ****ing HATES the whole concept of "hate crime".

I can understand that, but it is part of the law now.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:20 PM
I can understand that, but it is part of the law now.

Not in Arkansas, apparently.

Brock
03-11-2011, 01:21 PM
You know...as opposed to it turning out to be a love crime.

Bob Dole absolutely fucking HATES the whole concept of "hate crime".

I disagree that there should be different penalties for a "hate crime", but as a shorthand for the motivation of the crime is all I'm using it for.

Ugly Duck
03-11-2011, 01:21 PM
Are dead gay people still considered to be gay?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:22 PM
Why is that?

Because people have died for being mere sexual deviants and there is no evidence yet which suggests any other reason for the death.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Why are you rooting for this to be a hate crime?

Does it matter? We can say it wasn't a hate crime and there is really no duscussion. The whole reason the thread was created was to discuss the implications of a person being killed for the sexual identity. I know it's the offseason but random murders in Arkansas don't typically rate a CP thread.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Because people have died for being mere sexual deviants and there is no evidence yet which suggests any other reason for the death.

And people have died for being black before. The dead person was black, too, FYI.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:24 PM
Not in Arkansas, apparently.

As long as AR is a part of the U.S. it is.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:24 PM
Why are you rooting for this to be a hate crime?

I'm not rooting for that. Are you rooting that it be a murder for something else, like a broken contract? And if so, is that because you want people to assume that conservative Christians never kill others for being sexual deviants?

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:25 PM
As long as AR is a part of the U.S. it is.

They apparently don't have a state hate crime law. That's what I was referring to.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:26 PM
Blamed 100%? No.

A little blame? Sure, the above date scenario.

How much moral blame do you put on Emmitt Till for his death?

Rausch
03-11-2011, 01:27 PM
Actually it will probably be some other black transsexual and certain posters will come back to this thread to laugh at all of the PC losers as if that has anything to do with the point.

I don't care "why."

Someone drug someone else behind a vehicle and killed them in an extremely painful manner.

Race? Sex? Color? Politics?

I don't really give a $3it.

Fry the person guilty. It's sickening, immoral, and wrong...

alanm
03-11-2011, 01:27 PM
Because people have died for being mere sexual deviants and there is no evidence yet which suggests any other reason for the death.Why are you assuming then that being a sexual deviant is the reason?

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:27 PM
They apparently don't have a state hate crime law. That's what I was referring to.

I know. People are wondering why it matters if it's a hate crime and one reason is it will fall under federal jurisdiction. Someone implied the police in AR were unfairly playing down the likelihood of this being a hate crime and that might be one motive to do so.

Rausch
03-11-2011, 01:28 PM
I know. People are wondering why it matters if it's a hate crime and one reason is it will fall under federal jurisdiction. Someone implied the police in AR were unfairly playing down the likelihood of this being a hate crime and that might be one motive to do so.

Anyone murdering anyone is a "hate crime."

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:28 PM
How much moral blame do you put on Emmitt Till for his death?

None.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:28 PM
And people have died for being black before. The dead person was black, too, FYI.

Okay. I still consider the blame-worthiness of the victim to be insignificant and irrelvant.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:29 PM
Why are you assuming then that being a sexual deviant is the reason?

Because of the dragging.

loochy
03-11-2011, 01:29 PM
Anyone murdering anyone is a "hate crime."

...unless they loved the person so much that they murdered them to take them away from this cruel world of draggings and arguing about dumbassery. Then it would be a "love crime."

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:29 PM
None.

But he flirted with a white girl. Does that not matter to you?

loochy
03-11-2011, 01:30 PM
But he flirted with a white girl. Does that not matter to you?

googlegoogle would be angry

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:30 PM
But he flirted with a white girl. Does that not matter to you?

No.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:31 PM
Anyone murdering anyone is a "hate crime."

C'mon, dude. It may be a silly term in a literal sense, but it is something with a clear definition. I understand not approving of stiffer penalties for hate crimes, but arguing semantics is beside the point.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 01:31 PM
No you haven't been clear. You are saying you wouldn't go to some place that you knew to be dangerous. That is completely different than saying someone should move from their home because they are hated for what they are. You can dismiss me as a PC nutjob all you want. It doesn't make your argument more sound.

Actually when I was 18 I lived in an almost all black neighborhood in Clearwater Florida. It wasn't the best place to be for sure but I didn't really have a choice at the time. I knew when and where I could go and level saftey I had doing it. Often times I packed. To just be myself and go into some areas right around my house at night was stupid unless I was packing. I avoided it because doing so would have been fucking stupid. Get it?

Cave Johnson
03-11-2011, 01:31 PM
googlegoogle would be angry

Indeed he would be. Probably would start a thread about it.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:31 PM
Okay. I still consider the blame-worthiness of the victim to be insignificant and irrelvant.

Okay. What would you do if you went on a date with a pretty young thing, went for her honey pot and found an erect penis in your hand instead?

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Anyone murdering anyone is a "hate crime."

Which is why it should stand on it's own merit. Totally agree.

Rausch
03-11-2011, 01:32 PM
...unless they loved the person so much that they murdered them to take them away from this cruel world of draggings and arguing about dumbassery. Then it would be a "love crime."

Then it would be a mercy killing...

Cave Johnson
03-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Did it go on a date with some guy without the guy knowing that it was an it?

So that's a mitigating factor that would allow you to excuse the murder, or knock it down to manslaughter?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:32 PM
No.

So if we assumed that the transexual from Arkansas was in the position of Emmitt Till, and the murderer was in the position of the white girl, what is your analysis of moral blame?

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:32 PM
Because of the dragging.

A guy was dragged to death out here in Colorado recently. He wasn't a sexual deviant.

loochy
03-11-2011, 01:33 PM
Okay. What would you do if you went on a date with a pretty young thing, went for her honey pot and found an erect penis in your hand instead?

rejoice!


...err..i mean I'd be appalled!

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:33 PM
So if we assumed that the transexual from Arkansas was in the position of Emmitt Till, and the murderer was in the position of the white girl, what is your analysis of moral blame?

I don't see the logic between the attempted link, honestly.

alanm
03-11-2011, 01:34 PM
I'm not rooting for that. Are you rooting that it be a murder for something else, like a broken contract? And if so, is that because you want people to assume that conservative Christians never kill others for being sexual deviants?Would it shock you if you find out that this guy was a police informant?
Or he stole money or drugs from the wrong people?

Christian conservatives??? Why even go off on that track?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:34 PM
Okay. What would you do if you went on a date with a pretty young thing, went for her honey pot and found an erect penis in your hand instead?

First of all, I would never do that.

Secondly, I would certainly never cause physical injury to the person or shoot the person and then drag them behind my car.

What would you do?

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:34 PM
So that's a mitigating factor that would allow you to excuse the murder, or knock it down to manslaughter?

No, would still be murder, IMO. The issue in question was whether or not ANY blame could be assigned.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:34 PM
Actually when I was 18 I lived in an almost all black neighborhood in Clearwater Florida. It wasn't the best place to be for sure but I didn't really have a choice at the time. I knew when and where I could go and level saftey I had doing it. Often times I packed. To just be myself and go into some areas right around my house at night was stupid unless I was packing. I avoided it because doing so would have been fucking stupid. Get it?

Yes I get it and I'm glad you can concede at least that.

Still, you're assuming she went into a particularly dangerous area of Forrest City rather than trying to protect herself. As far as I know that is completely unfounded.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:35 PM
A guy was dragged to death out here in Colorado recently. He wasn't a sexual deviant.

What's the difference between that situation and this situation. (Hint: this person was a sexual deviant.)

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:35 PM
First of all, I would never do that.

Secondly, I would certainly never cause physical injury to the person or shoot the person and then drag them behind my car.

What would you do?

You'd never do what? Put your hand on a girl's honey pot?

I'd probably have a violent reaction, yes, but I doubt that I'd kill them.

loochy
03-11-2011, 01:35 PM
First of all, I would never do that.

? :hmmm:

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:36 PM
What's the difference between that situation and this situation. (Hint: this person was a sexual deviant.)

You seem to be getting confused. The young Till kid wasn't a sexual deviant.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:36 PM
I don't see the logic between the attempted link, honestly.

I'm trying to see if your position changes due to sexual differences.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:37 PM
Would it shock you if you find out that this guy was a police informant?
Or he stole money or drugs from the wrong people?

Christian conservatives??? Why even go off on that track?

It would not shock me. Christian conservatives is just what I'm speculating you are trying to defend.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:37 PM
No, would still be murder, IMO. The issue in question was whether or not ANY blame could be assigned.

If that was the case, I suppose SOME blame could be assigned just for doing something that is obviously going to illicit an angry response. If that was the case here, I suppose I could go as far as saying that what the victim did was "stupid."

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:37 PM
I'm trying to see if your position changes due to sexual differences.

What position is that?

Rausch
03-11-2011, 01:37 PM
I'd probably have a violent reaction, yes, but I doubt that I'd kill them.

I've already met GoChiefs so the odds of this happening are slim...

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:38 PM
You'd never do what? Put your hand on a girl's honey pot?

After a first date, no.

I'd probably have a violent reaction, yes, but I doubt that I'd kill them.

Would you find it completely wrong if someone did kill them?

loochy
03-11-2011, 01:39 PM
If that was the case, I suppose SOME blame could be assigned just for doing something that is obviously going to illicit an angry response. If that was the case here, I suppose I could go as far as saying that what the victim did was "stupid."

Yay! At least one person gets it!

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:39 PM
After a first date, no.



Would you find it completely wrong if someone did kill them?

I think he's made it clear that he would.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:39 PM
After a first date, no.

Okay, when you got up the nerves to do so.

Would you find it completely wrong if someone did kill them?

Yes.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:40 PM
What position is that?

That Emmitt Till deserves no moral blame, but a sexual deviant in Emmitt Till's position would deserve a moral blame.

alanm
03-11-2011, 01:40 PM
Because of the dragging.Someone mentioned the victim was also shot in the head. Perhaps they were pushing him out of the car on the road and his clothing was caught in the door. Making the dragging somewhat accidental.
The sheriff himself said the dragging didn't appear to be the cause of death.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:40 PM
If that was the case, I suppose SOME blame could be assigned just for doing something that is obviously going to illicit an angry response. If that was the case here, I suppose I could go as far as saying that what the victim did was "stupid."

I don't see anyone hear saying anything different, the cries of the PC-washed yunguns notwithstanding.

Rausch
03-11-2011, 01:41 PM
After a first date, no.



Would you find it completely wrong if someone did kill them?

Do his answers somehow decide who killed the victim and why?...

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:41 PM
Yay! At least one person gets it!

I've not said there is no circumstance in which a murder victim had shared some responsibility for their fate. I've just maintained that regardless of location, simply living your life is not one of those circumstances.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 01:42 PM
Yes I get it and I'm glad you can concede at least that.

Still, you're assuming she went into a particularly dangerous area of Forrest City rather than trying to protect herself. As far as I know that is completely unfounded.

Well the whole story lacks detail. My response was initially to Otters post where he said there appeared to be enough dumb to go around at which time he was totally and completely attacked by the PC crowd in an unfair manner where people made all kinds of assumptions and ran with it. I don't know jack shit about Arkansas but if I was some dude dressing up like a girl doing god knows what it doesn't sound like the safest place to do it and there for may not be the smartest thing he could have done.

Who is the her you keep referring to?

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:42 PM
That Emmitt Till deserves no moral blame, but a sexual deviant in Emmitt Till's position would deserve a moral blame.

A sexual deviant who tricked the woman into thinking she was a he? Sure.

Horrible comparison, BTW. I mean, just awful.

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:43 PM
I don't see anyone hear saying anything different, the cries of the PC-washed yunguns notwithstanding.

Her simply being transgender in AR is not the same as intentionally provoking someone through dishonesty. That makes no sense.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:43 PM
Someone mentioned the victim was also shot in the head. Perhaps they were pushing him out of the car on the road and his clothing was caught in the door. Making the dragging somewhat accidental.
The sheriff himself said the dragging didn't appear to be the cause of death.

Yeah, it could have all been an accident.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:44 PM
Do his answers somehow decide who killed the victim and why?...

No, but they're worth going over. Sort of.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:44 PM
A sexual deviant who tricked the woman into thinking she was a he? Sure.

Did I say that? You're assuming something important here that I've never said.

BIG_DADDY
03-11-2011, 01:46 PM
If that was the case, I suppose SOME blame could be assigned just for doing something that is obviously going to illicit an angry response. If that was the case here, I suppose I could go as far as saying that what the victim did was "stupid."

LMAO NICE!!!

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:46 PM
Her simply being transgender in AR is not the same as intentionally provoking someone through dishonesty. That makes no sense.

Again, the motive for this crime isn't known. At this point, me declaring that the motive was finding a penis instead of a vagina is as assumptive as others saying it was killed because it's a tranny.

And you'll note that I'm making no assumptions.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:47 PM
I don't see anyone hear saying anything different, the cries of the PC-washed yunguns notwithstanding.

Do you really think it's PC to assume a black transexual person that was shot and dragged to death, was a victim because he was a black transexual?

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:47 PM
Well the whole story lacks detail. My response was initially to Otters post where he said there appeared to be enough dumb to go around at which time he was totally and completely attacked by the PC crowd in an unfair manner where people made all kinds of assumptions and ran with it. I don't know jack shit about Arkansas but if I was some dude dressing up like a girl doing god knows what it doesn't sound like the safest place to do it and there for may not be the smartest thing he could have done.

Who is the her you keep referring to?

The victim. Transsexuals who have changed from Male to Female generally prefer to be referred to as a woman. (As the second article does where it is discovered she was a transsexual, not a crossdresser.) I tend to honor that wish.

I can agree that both sides made assumptions. Some made unfair ones about you and Otter, which is why I tried to determine under what circumstances you thought the victim here acted stupidly.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:47 PM
Did I say that? You're assuming something important here that I've never said.

It's not my fault that you provided a horrible example that has nothing to do with potential sexual deviancy.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:48 PM
Do you really think it's PC to assume a black transexual person that was shot and dragged to death, was a victim because he was a black transexual?

Yes.

Rausch
03-11-2011, 01:48 PM
No, but they're worth going over. Sort of.

Not really...

Rausch
03-11-2011, 01:49 PM
Do you really think it's PC to assume a black transexual person that was shot and dragged to death, was a victim because he was a black transexual?

Don't now and never have given a $3it about what's "PC."

kysirsoze
03-11-2011, 01:49 PM
Again, the motive for this crime isn't known. At this point, me declaring that the motive was finding a penis instead of a vagina is as assumptive as others saying it was killed because it's a tranny.

And you'll note that I'm making no assumptions.

I've already stated that the motive is not known and I am assuming for the sake of argument that it was because of her lifestyle. The people saying she was stupid for being out in drag in AR are assuming that as well or they wouldn't have said her actions were stupid.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:49 PM
It's not my fault that you provided a horrible example that has nothing to do with potential sexual deviancy.

I don't think you're following this big picture. The only reason you think it's a horrible example seems to be the factor of potential sexual deviancy. In other words, that's exactly what I was asking you about: whether the factor of sexual deviancy matters to you.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:50 PM
Yes.

What makes it PC?

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:50 PM
I don't think you're following this big picture. The only reason you think it's a horrible example seems to be the factor of potential sexual deviancy. In other words, that's exactly what I was asking you about: whether the factor of sexual deviancy matters to you.

Where was the sexual deviancy in the Till case?

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:51 PM
I've already stated that the motive is not known and I am assuming for the sake of argument that it was because of her lifestyle. The people saying she was stupid for being out in drag in AR are assuming that as well or they wouldn't have said her actions were stupid.

Yes, that's right.

Jenson71
03-11-2011, 01:53 PM
Where was the sexual deviancy in the Till case?

That's the difference in my scenarios. That's what I wanted to know from you, whether it mattered. You've answered it.

Donger
03-11-2011, 01:53 PM
I've already stated that the motive is not known and I am assuming for the sake of argument that it was because of her lifestyle. The people saying she was stupid for being out in drag in AR are assuming that as well or they wouldn't have said her actions were stupid.

I've asked this before, but I don't believe that anyone answered:

Are you stating that it IS good common sense to be a cross-dresser in rural Arkansas?

Inspector
03-11-2011, 01:53 PM
I think some people just like to argue.

Cave Johnson
03-11-2011, 01:53 PM
Where was the sexual deviancy in the Till case?

Till purportedly flirted with a white woman in 1955 Mississippi. By the standards of that place and time, that was deviant behavior.

Inspector
03-11-2011, 01:53 PM
I think some people just like to argue.

No THEY DON'T!!!!