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teedubya
03-23-2011, 04:21 PM
Why would I put it in Russian? Neither one of you assclowns know anything aside from what your TV tells you.

Here is something neither of you will read nor believe.

What They're Covering Up at Fukushima

http://www.counterpunch.org/takashi03222011.html

And a video that you won't watch.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nEncjYf2jJQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pants
03-23-2011, 04:28 PM
Why would I put it in Russian? Neither one of you assclowns know anything aside from what your TV tells you.

Here is something neither of you will read nor believe.

What They're Covering Up at Fukushima

http://www.counterpunch.org/takashi03222011.html

Yeah, I don't really watch the news, brah.

Pants
03-23-2011, 04:29 PM
Seriously though, Travis, what is there to be done? You're getting really annoying.

Baby Lee
03-23-2011, 04:32 PM
Seriously though, Travis, what is there to be done? You're getting really annoying.

I think Antione Dodson said it all, God rest our souls.

orange
03-23-2011, 04:33 PM
(and all other stars) is a fusion reaction.

Not exactly. There are neutron stars producing energy from fission after going supernova:

Massive stars
For stars which are bigger than the sun they start to fuse helium and carbon together due to the lose of hydrogen in the core. After the helium is gone, their mass is still enough to fuse carbon into heavier elements oxygen, neon, sulfur etc. Once the core has been changed into iron it can no longer burn, the star collapses under its own gravity and begins to heat up. Inside the core protons and neutrons are so tightly packed that they merge together to form neutrons, this then causes the iron core to shrink to a neutron core within the space of a second. The outer layers of the star now fall inward upon the core causing it to be crushed further, naturally the core heats up (to billions of degrees) and eventually explodes (a supernova). The remains of the star can either form a neutron star or a black hole (depending upon the mass of the star).

Even a few days after the supernova has occurred, it is still too hot and dense to allow any insight into what happens after it occurs. Once it starts to clear astronomers are able to look much more closely at the supernova. One of the things, which they found was that most of the light, doesn't actually come from the heat of the combustion from the supernova itself. When you see a supernova, you aren't seeing the energy of the explosion itself. The energy of the explosion is dissipated almost immediately. The substance that powers the supernova so that it can temporarily outshine the hundred billion other stars in its galaxy is nickel. It is just like pocket change, but it is radioactive, and it transforms into radioactive cobalt in a just a few days! This happens because the nickel, called nickel-56, has extra neutrons. These neutrons are unstable and can decay. In the case of nickel-56, the decay occurs in the form of electron capture, so that a neutron absorbs an electron to become a proton, simultaneously releasing a neutrino. With an extra proton, what was nickel-56 is now cobalt-56, but it is still radioactive. By the time the burning wave has flickered out about 40% of the solar mass has been converted into cobalt -56. The glowing cobalt radiates away its own essence until it is turned into iron by the same process over a few months. These continuous decays give off copious photons. Initially, these photons are trapped in the center of the expanding blanket of gas above them. As the supernova expands and cools, more and more radiation is able to leak out. After about 20 days from the explosion, the light output from a supernova reaches a peak (called maximum light) and starts to decline. Brighter supernovae are brighter because they have more nickel. As a result, they are also hotter and are more opaque. It takes longer for a photon to find its way out of a hotter supernova. Able to trap in radiation for a longer period of time, their brightness declines more slowly.

http://www.arm.ac.uk/~csj/essays/supernovae.html

p.s. Anyone, can you find the error in that? Consider it a puzzle.

Saulbadguy
03-23-2011, 04:35 PM
Yeah, I don't really watch the news, brah.

Yep. Total snoozefest!

loochy
03-24-2011, 07:48 AM
Why would I put it in Russian? Neither one of you assclowns know anything aside from what your TV tells you.

Here is something neither of you will read nor believe.

What They're Covering Up at Fukushima

http://www.counterpunch.org/takashi03222011.html

And a video that you won't watch.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nEncjYf2jJQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Wait, so why are YOUR sources better than what is on TV? Also, what makes you think that the random youtube video you found is any better? At the end of the day, unless you experienced or discovered something first hand, you are ultimately trusting others for your information and you always risk getting BS.

Saulbadguy
03-24-2011, 08:00 AM
Wait, so why are YOUR sources better than what is on TV? Also, what makes you think that the random youtube video you found is any better? At the end of the day, unless you experienced or discovered something first hand, you are ultimately trusting others for your information and you always risk getting BS.

Television is interested in ratings, so it will often sensationalize and overreact to news, such as this.

teedubya takes that one step further and claims TV is not overreacting enough...which would be a first.

loochy
03-24-2011, 08:19 AM
Television is interested in ratings, so it will often sensationalize and overreact to news, such as this.

Yeah, but these obscure sources often have their own agenda and they like to make up batshit crazy stuff or jump all over one tiny sliver of evidence that may support their cause and use that as a basis for a whole huge conspiracy (or some other type of) theory.

Saulbadguy
03-24-2011, 01:29 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/21/pro-nuclear-japan-fukushima

FAX
03-24-2011, 02:41 PM
I sometimes question why I waste any time trying to enlighten the willfully ignorant and stubbornly stupid.

I've often wondered the same thing, Mr. teedubya.

I used to play trombone in high school and, since I was second chair, I got the solos when the jazz band performed. That got me to thinking; why should I waste time playing trombone solos for people who never truly appreciated a trombone solo because ... well ... let's be honest ... they're impossible to appreciate.

But, there was this one guy who was a friend of my parents and he used to play the trombone back in the days of big band music. He told me that, regardless of the audience reaction, there is always one person in the crowd who truly appreciates what you're doing. Even though I never stopped searching, I never met that person. So, I imagined that person as this super-hot, blond, green-eyed babe with proportionate tittahs and a rich father. And, from that day forward I played my trombone solos just for her. Because she liked them so much and all.

FAX

mlyonsd
03-24-2011, 02:43 PM
I've often wondered the same thing, Mr. teedubya.

I used to play trombone in high school and, since I was second chair, I got the solos when the jazz band performed. That got me to thinking; why should I waste time playing trombone solos for people who never truly appreciated a trombone solo because ... well ... let's be honest ... they're impossible to appreciate.

But, there was this one guy who was a friend of my parents and he used to play the trombone back in the days of big band music. He told me that, regardless of the audience reaction, there is always one person in the crowd who truly appreciates what you're doing. Even though I never stopped searching, I never met that person. So, I imagined that person as this super-hot, blond, green-eyed babe with proportionate tittahs and a rich father. And, from that day forward I played my trombone solos just for her. Because she liked them so much and all.

FAXI bet she ended up with the drummer.

Baby Lee
03-24-2011, 03:26 PM
I bet she ended up with the drummer.

The one who steers a speedboat with his dick?

Bwana
03-25-2011, 06:49 AM
Swell

http://www.naturalnews.com/031836_radioactive_fallout_Fukushima.html

Saulbadguy
03-25-2011, 06:50 AM
Swell

http://www.naturalnews.com/031836_radioactive_fallout_Fukushima.html

:LOL:

Bwana
03-25-2011, 06:54 AM
:LOL:

LMAO

:spock:

Hydrae
03-25-2011, 07:30 AM
Japan Quietly Evacuating a Wider Radius From Reactors
By DAVID JOLLY, HIROKO TABUCHI and KEITH BRADSHER
Published: March 25, 2011

TOKYO — Japanese officials on Friday began quietly encouraging people to evacuate a larger swath of territory around the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, a sign that they hold little hope that the crippled facility will soon be brought under control.

The authorities said they would now assist people who want to leave the area from 12 to 19 miles outside the crippled plant and said they were now encouraging “voluntary evacuation” from the area. Those people had been advised March 15 to remain indoors, while those within a 12-mile radius of the plant had been ordered to evacuate.

The United States has recommended that its citizens stay at least 50 miles away from the plant.

Speaking to a national audience in a press conference Friday night to mark the two weeks since the magnitude 9.0 quake and the devastating tsunami that followed it, Prime Minister Naoto Kan dodged a reporter’s question about whether the government was ordering a full evacuation, saying officials were simply following the recommendation of the Japan Nuclear Safety Commission.In the latest setback to the effort to contain the nuclear crisis, evidence emerged that the reactor vessel of the No. 3 unit may have been damaged, an official said Friday. The development, described at a news conference by Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director-general of the Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, raises the possibility that radiation from the mox fuel in the reactor — a combination of uranium and plutonium — could be released.

One sign that a breach may have occurred in the reactor vessel, Mr. Nishiyama said, took place on Thursday when three workers who were trying to connect an electrical cable to a pump in a turbine building next to the reactor were injured when they stepped into water that was found to be significantly more radioactive than normal in a reactor.

The No. 3 unit, the only one of the six reactors at the site that uses the mox fuel, was damaged by a hydrogen explosion on March 14. Workers have been seeking to keep it cool by spraying it with seawater along with a more recent effort to restart the reactor’s cooling system.A broken vessel is not the only possible explanation, he said. The water might have leaked from another part of the facility.

The news Friday and the discovery this week of a radioactive isotope in the water supplies of Tokyo and neighboring prefectures has punctured the mood of optimism with which the week began, leaving a sense that the battle to fix the damaged plant will be a long one.

“The situation still requires caution,” Mr. Kan, grave and tired-looking, told the nation. “Our measures are aimed at preventing the circumstances from getting worse.”

Mr. Kan also apologized to the businesses and farmers whose livelihoods have been endangered by the plant. He acknowledged the assistance of the United States and thanked the many people — utility workers, military personnel, policemen and firefighters — who are risking their lives in an effort to restore the cooling functions of the plant and stop the harmful release of radiation.

“Let us take courage, and walk together to rebuild,” he added. “The nation united, as one, to overcome the crisis.”

No one is being ordered to evacuate the second zone around the troubled plant, officials said, and people may choose to remain, but many have already left of their own accord, tiring of the anxiety and tedium of remaining cooped up as the nuclear crisis simmers just a few miles away. Many are said to be virtual prisoners, with no access to shopping and immobilized by a lack of gasoline.

“What we’ve been finding is that in that area life has become quite difficult,” Noriyuki Shikata, deputy cabinet secretary for Prime Minister Naoto Kan, said in a telephone interview. “People don’t want to go into the zone to make deliveries.”

Mr. Shikata said the question of where those who chose to leave would go was still under consideration.

“There appear to be more than 10,000 people in the outer zone,”

NHK, the Japanese public broadcaster, quoted a Land Self Defense Force official as saying. “We’re trying to quickly locate everyone who remains, so that we can rapidly help in case the nuclear plant situation worsens.”

Officials continue to be dogged by suspicions that they are not telling the entire story about the radiation leaks. Shunichi Tanaka, former acting chairman of the country’s Atomic Energy Commission, told The Japan Times in an interview published Friday that the government was being irresponsible in forcing people from their homes around the damaged plant without explaining the risks they were facing.

“The government has not yet said in concrete terms why evacuation is necessary to the people who have evacuated,” he said.

The National Police Agency said Friday that the official death toll from the March 11 earthquake and tsunami had passed 10,000, with nearly 17,500 others listed as missing.There was some good news. Levels of the radioactive isotope found in Tokyo’s water supply fell Friday for a second day, officials said, dropping to 51 becquerels per liter, well below the country’s stringent maximum for infants.

On Wednesday, Tokyo area stores were cleaned out of bottled water after the Tokyo authorities said the isotope, iodine 131, had been detected in the city’s water supply and cautioned those in the affected areas not to give infants tap water. On Thursday, cities in two of Tokyo’s neighboring prefectures, Chiba and Saitama, also reported disturbing levels of radiation in their water.

Nuclear workers will have to keep venting radioactive gases from the damaged reactors, adding to the plume of emissions carried by winds and dispersed by rain. The public has been warned not to consume food and milk from the area near the plant.

Japanese officials said nine days ago that there were signs of damage to the reactor vessel at reactor No. 3, particularly warning then that there might have been damage to the suppression pool

But Michael Friedlander, a former nuclear power plant operator for 13 years in the United States, said that the presence of radioactive cobalt and molybdenum in water samples taken from the basement of the turbine building of reactor No. 3 raised the possibility of a very different leak.

Both materials typically occur not because of fission but because of routine corrosion in a reactor and its associated piping over the course of many years of use, he said.

These materials are continuously removed from the reactor’s water system as it circulates through a piece of equipment called a condensate polisher, which is located outside the reactor vessel. The discovery of both materials in the basement suggests damage to that equipment or its associated piping, as opposed to a breach of the reactor vessel itself, Mr. Friedlander said.

The condensate polisher is also located in the basement of the turbine building, where the tainted water was found. By contrast, the reactor vessel is actually located in a completely different, adjacent building, and would be far less likely to leak into the basement of the turbine building.

The aggressive use of saltwater to cool the reactor and storage pool may mean that more of these highly radioactive corrosion materials will be dislodged and contaminate the area in the days to come, posing further hazards to repair workers, Mr. Friedlander added.

Speaking at a Webcast press conference, Sakae Muto, a Tokyo Electric Power vice president, said that the company did not know how badly the seawater used to cool the reactors had contributed to corrosion. Seawater leaves residue behind as it evaporates and corrosion damages critical pipes, valves and metal assemblies.

He said the company had found the same problem with contaminated water in the basements of the No.1 and No. 2 turbine buildings as that which caused the men’s injuries in the No. 3 unit. Removing the radioactive water will delay the work of restarting cooling systems.

On Friday, the company switched to pumping fresh water to cool the No. 1 unit.

David Jolly and Hiroko Tabuchi reported from Tokyo and Keith Bradsher from Hong Kong. Takeshi Takizawa contributed reporting from Tokyo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/world/asia/26japan.html?src=mv

Donger
03-25-2011, 08:42 AM
It certainly sounds like they've had a breach of the containment vessel at reactor three.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-25-2011, 01:02 PM
Where's alnorth to tell us this isn't a problem?

notorious
03-25-2011, 01:18 PM
No way!


Let's not build a nuclear reactor on the most dangerous earthquake area in the world again please.

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:20 PM
Where's alnorth to tell us this isn't a problem?

Well, it certainly isn't a "good" thing, but I also wouldn't blow it out of proportion.

teedubya
03-25-2011, 01:20 PM
Everything is fine and completely contained. Nothing to be concerned about.

http://www.missmalevolent.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/iraqi-information-minister.jpg

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:21 PM
No way!


Let's not build a nuclear reactor on the most dangerous earthquake area in the world again please.

The plant survived the earthquake just fine. The resulting tsunami caused these issues.

notorious
03-25-2011, 01:21 PM
The plant survived the earthquake just fine. The resulting tsunami caused these issues.


What caused the tsunami?

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:23 PM
What caused the tsunami?

HARP, probably.

notorious
03-25-2011, 01:24 PM
HARP, probably.

LMAO

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:25 PM
What caused the tsunami?

You'll note that I wrote "resulting tsunami" above.

But, you seemed to be stating that nuclear plants shouldn't be built anywhere near a fault zone. I'm just pointing out that the plant survived the earthquake as it was designed to do.

teedubya
03-25-2011, 01:26 PM
HARP, probably.

HAARP, not Harp. :doh!:

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:28 PM
HAARP, not Harp. :doh!:

LMAO

notorious
03-25-2011, 01:31 PM
You'll note that I wrote "resulting tsunami" above.

But, you seemed to be stating that nuclear plants shouldn't be built anywhere near a fault zone. I'm just pointing out that the plant survived the earthquake as it was designed to do.


Radiation scares the hell out of me, and when I'm scared I get emotional and over-react (no pun intended).

It is a silent killler that doesn't always kill. Radiation causes horrific and disturbing health issues to adults, childeren, and especially unborn children. I can't fathom having to raise a child that is horribly disfigured mentally and physically because of Radiation.


That is why I think that it is unbelievably stupid to build a Reactor in such a dangerous area.

Just Passin' By
03-25-2011, 01:32 PM
HAARP, not Harp. :doh!:

HAARP, HARP, CELLO. Same shit. Any way you label it, it'll eventually be blamed on the JEWS.

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:33 PM
Radiation scares the hell out of me, and when I'm scared I get emotional and over-react (no pun intended).

It is a silent killler that doesn't always kill. Radiation causes horrific and disturbing health issues to adults, childeren, and especially unborn children. I can't fathom having to raise a child that is horribly disfigured mentally and physically because of Radiation.


That is why I think that it is unbelievably stupid to build a Reactor in such a dangerous area.

Meh. As has been stated, Japan does not possess the requisite indigenous resources to provide the electricity via non-nuclear means. So, they either utilize nuclear or they would have to import fuels of other types to meant their demand.

notorious
03-25-2011, 01:39 PM
Meh. As has been stated, Japan does not possess the requisite indigenous resources to provide the electricity via non-nuclear means. So, they either utilize nuclear or they would have to import fuels of other types to meant their demand.

Easier doesn't make it better.


I know they did what they had to, and the losses maybe justifed due to the great benefits.


I am very happy that I don't live anywhere near a Nuke Plant.

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:42 PM
Easier doesn't make it better.


I know they did what they had to, and the losses maybe justifed due to the great benefits.


I am very happy that I don't live anywhere near a Nuke Plant.

That's okay. Japan is sending theirs over to you right now.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-25-2011, 01:44 PM
Well, it certainly isn't a "good" thing, but I also wouldn't blow it out of proportion.

That's the crux of the issue. While there is no need to be running around in OMGONOZ mode, the marginalization of the danger by the aforementioned was preposterous.

notorious
03-25-2011, 01:49 PM
That's okay. Japan is sending theirs over to you right now.


Yay!


Swwweeet radiation........aaaaahhhhhhgggggg.

http://s.marketwatch.com/public/resources/MWimages/MW-AG131_simpso_MG_20100831155043.jpg

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:50 PM
That's the crux of the issue. While there is no need to be running around in OMGONOZ mode, the marginalization of the danger by the aforementioned was preposterous.

I don't know to what you are specifically referring, but if it was something akin to "there's nothing wrong here at all," that is clearly incorrect.

Donger
03-25-2011, 01:52 PM
Yay!


Swwweeet radiation........aaaaahhhhhhgggggg.

http://s.marketwatch.com/public/resources/MWimages/MW-AG131_simpso_MG_20100831155043.jpg

LMAO

BTW, those towers are just for cooling. The reactors aren't inside them. Somehow they've become the common "picture" of a nuclear plant.

shirtsleeve
03-25-2011, 01:56 PM
http://www.mrjoe.com/MrJoe/Creative_Greenius/Entries/2008/1/18_Clean_Coal,_Healthy_Cancer_%26_Evil_Jesus-__Did_I_mention_safe,_green_nuclear_files/Homer-768566.jpg

shirtsleeve
03-25-2011, 01:57 PM
LMAO

BTW, those towers are just for cooling. The reactors aren't inside them. Somehow they've become the common "picture" of a nuclear plant.

Yep. Cooling water for the steam turbine condensers.

teedubya
03-25-2011, 02:01 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FXFUUGeV1DI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If Ann says so... it must be true. Whew!!

notorious
03-25-2011, 02:06 PM
Not to get too far off-subject, but I read about the Nuclear B-36 years ago, and it is facinating.

They actually had two different options for a powerplant: A closed reaction system and a system that vented the radiation straight into the atmosphere. :facepalm:

Enjoy

http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/nuke-american.htm



Flying on Nuclear, The American Effort to Built a Nuclear Powered Bomber
by Raul Colon



http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/nb36h-3a.jpg
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The NB-36H was a modified Convair B-36 Peacekeeper that was used as a testbed for an American nuclear powered bomber.
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Fascination about a potential nuclear power that might offer limitless energy led the United States Air Forces commenced in 1944 as an experimental program, designed to produce an operational nuclear powered bomber. The idea of nuclear propulsion energy to power an aircraft dates back to 1942 when Enrico Fermi, one of the fathers of the atomic bomb, discussed the idea with members of the Manhattan Project. For the first two years, engineers were immersed on the issue of how radiation would affect the performance of a flying platform, its avionics, materials, and more importantly, its crew. The program seemed lost in endless detailed fights and controversies, when in 1947, it received new life. The newly formed U.S. Air Forces decided to invest the necessary resources to make the program feasible. Allocation for ten million dollars was promptly made available to the program. From early 1948 to 1951, extensive research was made in reactor technologies and engine transfer systems; the backbone of the nuclear powered aircraft. Many configurations were proposed, Dual reactor, combination (chemical and nuclear) and single systems were tested. Eventually it was decided that a single reactor would provide the aircraft with the necessary flight reliability. Next came the debate about what type of transfer mechanism would be implemented. Transferring nuclear power to a conventional engine had long been seen by engineers as the main obstacle in the development of the program.


http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/htre1-1a.jpg


In 1949, the program ran a series of tests, known as the Heat Transfer Reactor Experiment (HTRE), involving three types of reactors, with the purpose of determining the most efficient method of transferring energy from the reactor. After an extensive trial series, the HTRE-3 emerged as the selected transfer system. The HTRE-3 was a Direct-Cycle Configuration. In a direct cycle system, the air entered the engine through the compressor of the turbojet, it then moved to a plenum intake that directs the air to the core of the reactor.

http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/htre3-1a.jpg


At this point the air, serving as the reactor coolant, is super-heated as it travels through the core. After that stage, it goes to another plenum intake; from there the air is directed to the turbine section of the engine and eventually to the tailpipe. This configuration allowed the aircraft engine to start on chemical power and then switch to nuclear heat as soon as the core reached optimized operational temperatures, thus providing the proposed aircraft the ability to take-off and land on conventional power.


http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/htre3-4.jpg

Another system considered was the Indirect-Cycle Configuration. In this configuration, the air did not go through the reactor core, air instead passed through a heat exchanger. The heat generated by the reactor is carried by liquid metal or highly pressurized water, to the heat exchanger where the air is, thus heating the air in its way to the turbine. Engineers preferred the direct-cycle approach due to the fact that was simpler to produce; program managers preferred the idea because its development time was relatively short compared to the indirect system.


After establishing the parameters for the power plant and the transfer mechanism, engineers commenced work on the shielding for the crew and aircraft avionic systems. Initial plans called for the shielding of the reactor by massive layers of cadmium, paraffin wax, beryllium oxide, and steel. The idea behind this setting was that the more protection the reactor have, the less shielding the crew cabin would require. Technically, this was a sound approach, but in a rapidly functioning environment such as an aircraft setting, this shielding proved to be ineffective. For this reason it was decided to implement what is known as Shadow Shielding Concept. In shadow shielding, the layers of protection would be equally divided between the reactor and the crew cabin. Shadow Shielding would also provide a more robust protection for the aircraft’s avionics systems. An added plus from the implementation of this system was the reduction in the weight of the aircraft due to the distribution of the shield.


http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/p-1-4.jpg

Having tackled the reactor, transfer mechanism, and shielding problems, the program moved it to the aircraft design stage. By late 1951, the program was heavily involved in the acquisition of a test-bed type aircraft for the initial trials of the configuration. The only proven airframe large enough to carry the massive reactor and Heat Transfer system was the Convair’s B-36 Peacekeeper Bomber. The Peacemaker started to enter front line service with the U.S. Air Force in late 1948 and at the time of the nuclear powered program, was the Strategic Air Command (SAC) main nuclear deterrent platform. The B-36 was indeed massive. The dimensions are impressive even today. A wingspan of 230 ft, a length of 162 ft 1in, high of 46 ft 8in, and a wind area of 4,772sq ft. This bomber maximum take-off weight was an amazing 410,000 lbs—which is why the program managers selected the B-36. A service ceiling of 39,900 ft and a climb rate of 2,220 ft per minute were also pluses in the selection process. Once the testing aircraft had been identified, the next phase would commence at once—the conversion of the B-36 into an experimental aircraft. The main modification made to the original B-36 airframe was on the nose cone section. The original crew and avionics cabin was replaced by a massive 11 ton structure lined with lead, and rubber. Water tanks were also placed in the aft section of the frame to absorb any escaping radiation.


http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/nb36h-cockpita.jpg

A special shielded cockpit was installed in the NB-36H

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The other section of the plane that underwent significant modifications was the rear-internal bomb bay. Internal cross sections were removed as well as many of the bomb carrying rafts in order to make space for the nuclear reactor power plant. These alterations made it possible for the aircraft to receive a new designation. It is from this moment on that this sole B-36 Peacemaker, number c/n 51-5712, sample would be called Nuclear Test Aircraft-36. An additional designation change was made when the nuclear powered plant was installed on the aircraft. Thus the NB-36 “Crusader” was born.

Identifying the aircraft was the radioactivity symbol painted on the tailfin. The R-1, one standing for the energy it would generate, a one megawatt; reactor installed on the aircraft was a liquid-sodium cooled power plant winched up into the plane’s bomb bay at a dedicated pit on Convair’s Fort Worth plant every time the NB-36 was scheduled to take to the air. When the NB-36 landed, the R-1 was removed for research purposes.

The original B-36 was powered by six Pratt & Whitney 3600 hp, R4360-53 radial piston engines, supplemented by four General Electric 13,500 lb thrust J47-19 turbojets. After conversion, the engines were removed and a new configuration was incorporated. The NB-36 now had four GE J47 nuclear converted piston engines generating 3,800 hp augmented by four 23.13 kn turbojets generating 5,200 lbs of thrust. Each of the engines utilized the Direct-Cycle Configuration for power conversion. The NB-36 was designed from the beginning, to be propelled to the air with a conventional chemical mixture, and then the crew would switch on the reactor after achieving the necessary heat requirements on its core. On landing approaches, the aircraft would switch back to chemical mixture. This procedure was implemented in order to minimize the possibility of a major radiation leak in case of a crash landing.


http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/p-1-3.jpg

The Heat Transfer System Being loaded into the bomb-bay of Convair NB-36H.

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The NB-36 made 47 recorded flights between the summer of 1955 and the fall of 1957. All these tests were made operating the NB-36 with conventional chemical power. The R-1 reactor was turned-on on many of these flights, not to actually power the aircraft, but to test and collect data on the feasibility of a sustained nuclear reaction on a moving platform. All the data collected by these tests showed the program managers that the possibility of using a nuclear power plant to provide an aircraft with unlimited operational range was indeed at their disposal at this time. Impressive as the taxi and flight testing were for the NB-36, the complete concept of a nuclear powered aircraft was made irrelevant by advances in conventional aircraft and engine design and the public concern about the dangers of flying a nuclear reactor over their homeland. In the end, after expending no less than $469,350,000 on the nuclear powered program and having a concept aircraft flying, the U.S. Air Force shelf the program in the late 1960s, thus ending any major attempt by the United States to utilizing nuclear propulsion to impulse an aircraft in combat.@

http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/anp-ic-1.jpg
http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/anp-ic-2.jpg
http://www.aviation-history.com/articles/anp-dc-1.jpg

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The author Paul Colon is a freelance writer who resides in San Juan Puerto Rico. rcolonfrias@yahoo.com


Sources

1. Concept Aircraft: Prototypes, X-Planes, and Experimental Aircraft; Edit Jim Winchester, Thunder Bay Press – 2005
2. Peacetime Use of Atomic Energy; Martin Mann, The Viking Press – 1961
3. The X Plane; Jay Miller, Aerofax – 1988
4. Aircraft Nuclear Propulsion Program; Metal Progress – 1959
5. The World Encyclopedia of Bombers; Francis Crosby, Anness Publishing - 2004

notorious
03-25-2011, 02:10 PM
A flying nuclear reactor is a great fucking idea. :facepalm:

Donger
03-25-2011, 02:13 PM
A flying nuclear reactor is a great ****ing idea. :facepalm:

They did a bunch of goofy stuff in the 1950s. But, from a nuclear perspective, it's not that much different than flying around with nuclear weapons (which are surrounded by high explosives).

notorious
03-25-2011, 02:16 PM
They did a bunch of goofy stuff in the 1950s. But, from a nuclear perspective, it's not that much different than flying around with nuclear weapons (which are surrounded by high explosives).

We didn't give a shit back then, and the Soviets REALLY didn't give a shit.


They probably would have went with the engine that vented radiation into the atmosphere.

DaFace
03-25-2011, 02:18 PM
So....NOW we're gonna die?

loochy
03-25-2011, 02:23 PM
So....NOW we're gonna die?

I dunno...maybe you could unban googlegoogle and we'd find out. ROFL

Sofa King
03-25-2011, 02:26 PM
I dunno...maybe you could unban googlegoogle and we'd find out. ROFL

you'd shut your mouth if you knew what was good for ya, buddy!

teedubya
03-25-2011, 04:24 PM
I found this interesting hypothesis that the Continental Shelf near Japan is actually cracking and the volcanic tubes are collapsing... which could make Japan slide into the ocean off of the 20,000 foot shelf on the east, especially if Mount Fuji goes off.

Watch these and notice how they are all along the Japan Continental Shelf [turn on sticky dots] http://www.japanquakemap.com/

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7618/japanquakes.jpg


Take it for what's it worth.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WPm8NJK8SgA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Donger
03-25-2011, 04:26 PM
Take it for what's it worth.

About a quark.

teedubya
03-25-2011, 04:37 PM
About a quark.

That is a 20,000 foot continental "WALL"... all of the volcanic tubes are collapsing.

These aren't traditional aftershocks.

Donger
03-25-2011, 04:39 PM
That is a 20,000 foot continental "WALL"... all of the volcanic tubes are collapsing.

These aren't traditional aftershocks.

Is either the dork who made that video or you a seismologist/geologist?

teedubya
03-25-2011, 04:41 PM
Heh. I'm a Hypotheisologist.

Donger
03-25-2011, 04:44 PM
Heh. I'm a Hypotheisologist.

You aren't hypothesizing. You are stating that the lava tubes are collapsing. How do you know this?

teedubya
03-25-2011, 04:54 PM
800+ earthquakes all along that tall 20,000 foot continental shelf... I'm not saying I'm a geologist... but it seems plausible.

One thing would seem to be logical... if these lava tubes collapse, then it will be harder for the pressure to release which would most likely cause a large volcano to occur.

800+ 4.0+ earthquakes, I might add.

http://www.japanquakemap.com/

But whatever, nothing we could do about any of that anyway. I'm off doom detail and back to watching basketball distractions. Have a good evening, Donger.

Donger
03-25-2011, 04:55 PM
800+ earthquakes all along that tall 20,000 foot continental shelf... I'm not saying I'm a geologist... but it seems plausible.

One thing would seem to be logical... if these lava tubes collapse, then it will be harder for the pressure to release which would most likely cause a large volcano to occur.

800+ 4.0+ earthquakes, I might add.

http://www.japanquakemap.com/

But whatever, nothing we could do about any of that anyway. I'm off doom detail and back to watching basketball distractions. Have a good evening, Donger.

Do you even know if there are lava tubes along that shelf?

teedubya
03-25-2011, 04:58 PM
I'm off doom detail and back to watching basketball distractions. Have a good evening, Donger.

:-)

Donger
03-25-2011, 04:59 PM
I'm off doom detail and back to watching basketball distractions. Have a good evening, Donger.

:-)

If you watch the patterns of the players closely, you'll see that they are actually performing a ritualistic dance to bring the dead back to life.

You've been warned.

teedubya
03-25-2011, 05:03 PM
Here is one last bit of doom for you.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IfZeJy1fEyE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Slainte
03-25-2011, 05:16 PM
The teedubya theory at work:

Throw wild, unsupported shit against the wall.

Get called on it. Asked for proof.

"So sorry -- time for me to watch basketball!!"


It seems plausible....

teedubya
03-25-2011, 05:21 PM
The teedubya theory at work:

Throw wild, unsupported shit against the wall.

Get called on it. Asked for proof.

"So sorry -- time for me to watch basketball!!"


It seems plausible....

Japan will OBVIOUSLY fall into the ocean, sooner or later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_Japan

Thanks though. It just appears that it may happen sooner... the 9.0 earthquake moved it 8 feet. All of these other quakes are weakening the 20,000 foot wall.

Slainte
03-25-2011, 05:26 PM
Japan will OBVIOUSLY fall into the ocean, sooner than later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_Japan

Thanks though. It just appears that it may happen sooner...

:LOL: LMAO

Link doesn't back you up in the slightest. Best get back to those hoops, Sagan...

orange
03-25-2011, 05:31 PM
HAARP, HARP, CELLO. Same shit. Any way you label it, it'll eventually be blamed on the JEWS.

http://chabadjapan.org/blog_e/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/chabad-tokyo-japan-visit-770.jpg

teedubya
03-25-2011, 05:32 PM
It does. Look. Japan used to be attached to Asia... and it has been speading out, ever since.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b1/Japan_separation.png/375px-Japan_separation.png

Now there is a Sea of Japan. Anyway, bro, your laughs don't phase me. If they did. I'd of stopped posting shit long ago. heh.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b1yIfOYQWxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Donger
03-25-2011, 05:38 PM
It does. Look. Japan used to be attached to Asia... and it has been speading out, ever since.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b1/Japan_separation.png/375px-Japan_separation.png

Now there is a Sea of Japan. Anyway, bro, your laughs don't phase me. If they did. I'd of stopped posting shit long ago. heh.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b1yIfOYQWxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Are you aware that all the land masses used to be attached to each other? If not, look up Pangaea.

Yes, we are really, really f*cked.

Slainte
03-25-2011, 05:38 PM
Did you know that Portugal is going to break off, slide into the Atlantic ocean, pass underneath the Azorean archipelago, wind it's way past the Bahamas, circulate through the Panama canal and end up in the Marianas trench?

You want proof?

Why suuurrre...I'll be right back after this super-important badminton match, guys...

Saulbadguy
03-25-2011, 05:52 PM
I took a Geology class. Got an A.

Dave Lane
03-25-2011, 08:11 PM
Are you aware that all the land masses used to be attached to each other? If not, look up Pangaea.

Yes, we are really, really f*cked.

Exactly, Kansas was once underwater so obviously we are about to fall back into the sea at a resonance of 3 hertz due to lawrence KU basketball. All is doomed.

Pants
03-25-2011, 08:21 PM
I took a Geology class. Got an A.

Army taught me geology.

teedubya
03-26-2011, 04:23 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/haBovPouOU8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Three "Raging" Meltdowns at once. Yikes.

Donger
03-26-2011, 08:05 AM
It appears that we've lent the Japanese some barges filled with fresh water for the reactors.

teedubya
03-26-2011, 11:00 AM
From the movie Matrix when Agent Smith is speaking with Morpheus:

"I'd like to share a revelation I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we … are the cure."

teedubya
03-26-2011, 11:06 AM
High level of iodine 131 in seawater near N-plant

A high level of radioactive iodine has been detected in seawater near Japan's troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. The facility was hit by the March 11th earthquake and tsunami.

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said on Saturday that iodine 131 in excess of 1,250 times regulated standards was found in seawater collected 330 meters south of a plant water outlet at 8:30 AM on Friday.

The agency says there is no immediate threat to people within the 20-kilometer evacuation zone. The agency adds that as seawater is dispersed by ocean currents the contamination level will decline.

Iodine 131 at 146.9 times regulated standards was detected in seawater in the area on Wednesday.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/26_13.html

teedubya
03-26-2011, 07:53 PM
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/03/japan-soil-measurements-surprisingly.html

Concerns about radiation in Japan have now spread to the soil surrounding the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear reactor. One level that was reported this week was high enough to suggest people in that area should be evacuated, an expert says. But he cautions that it's hard to draw conclusions about these spot measurements without more data.

Today, Japanese officials told the population living up to 30 kilometers from the plant that they should consider leaving the area, expanding the previous 20-kilometer radius evacuation zone. But according to news reports, the advice stems from difficulties in supplying the region with food and water, not radiation levels.

Meanwhile, on Wednesday the Japanese science ministry began to report measurements of cesium-137 in upland soil around the plant (http://www.mext.go.jp/english/radioactivity_level/detail/1304099.htm). The levels are highest from two points northeast of the plant, ranging from 8690 becquerels/kilogram to a high of 163,000 Bq/kg measured on 20 March from a point in Iitate about 40 kilometers northwest of the Fukushima plant.

The soil measurements are more significant for evacuation purposes than radioactivity in the air, says nuclear engineer Shih-Yew Chen of Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois, because cesium dust stays underfoot while air is transient. Levels of cesium-137 are also more important than soil readings of iodine-131, which is short-lived and more of a concern in milk and vegetables. "It's the cesium that would prompt an evacuation," says Chen.

Based on a rough estimate, a person standing on soil with 163,000 Bq/kg of cesium-137 would receive about 150 millisieverts per year of radiation, says Chen. This is well above the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency standard of 50 millisieverts per year for an evacuation. (Per day, it's 0.41 millisieverts, which is equivalent to four chest x-rays.) But Chen adds, "one point [of data] doesn't mean that much."

The hot spot is similar to levels found in some areas affected by the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear reactor accident in the former Soviet Union. Assuming the radiation is no more than 2 centimeters deep, Chen calculates that 163,000 Bq/kg is roughly equivalent to 8 million Bq/m2. The highest cesium-137 levels in some villages near Chernobyl were 5 million Bq/m2.

For our complete coverage of the crisis in Japan, see our Japan Earthquake page. For Science's answers to reader questions about the crisis, see our Quake Questions page.

Follow ScienceInsider on Facebook and Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/scienceinsider)

Ebolapox
03-26-2011, 10:10 PM
Googlegoogle=TW?

Bwana
03-26-2011, 11:27 PM
Googlegoogle=TW?

Nope

teedubya
03-27-2011, 12:38 AM
This is no shit, people. Chuckle it up, but this is worse than Chernobyl. This is now, 3 Reactors in full meltdown mode, one of which is full of plutonium.

http://twitter.com/#!/REUTERSFLASH/status/51859532971909120

@REUTERSFLASH

#Japan plant operator says radioactivity in water at reactor No. 2 is 10 million times usual level, workers evacuated - local media

Ebolapox
03-27-2011, 12:47 AM
Nope

(that was sarcasm)

teedubya
03-27-2011, 12:53 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-27/status-reports-on-the-reactors-at-japan-s-fukushima-nuclear-plant-table.html

Via Bloomberg

Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said a “certain level of progress” has been made while speaking on an NHK television program today.

No. 1: Contaminated water in the turbine structure contains 10,000 times the radiation of regular cooling water, NHK said. The company has started removing contaminated water from the basement of the turbine building and will prepare more pumps to drain the water, the agency said. The unit has been damaged since a March 12 hydrogen explosion destroyed the building’s walls. The seriousness of the reactor’s threat to safety is rated level five on an international scale of 1-7.

No. 2: Contaminated water in the turbine structure contains 10 million times more radiation than normal cooling water, NHK said. The company plans to remove contaminated water as early as today, the agency said. The company plans to start using freshwater on fuel pool from March 28, the agency said. The containment chamber may have been damaged in a March 15 explosion, and a power cable was reconnected to the unit on March 19. The reactor is rated a level-five threat.

No. 3: Contaminated water in the turbine structure contains 10,000 times the normal radiation, NHK said. The company is considering ways to remove the contaminated water, the agency said. A March 14 explosion damaged the unit’s fuel cover. The reactor is rated a level-five threat.

No. 4: The company plans to spray water in the spent-fuel cooling pool this afternoon, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said. The agency said on March 17 there may be no water in the pool. It’s rated at three on the threat level. This reactor was undergoing maintenance when the earthquake hit.

No. 5: The unit was idle for maintenance before the earthquake.

No. 6: The reactor achieved cold shutdown at 7:27 p.m. on March 20 when the temperature fell below 100 degrees Celsius, the company said. A backup generator was fixed March 19, according to a company press release. The unit was idle for maintenance before the earthquake.

Dave Lane
03-27-2011, 01:12 AM
Hey what ever happened to that earthquake I was promised? I bought a lot of land in Arizona and some surfboards and I got nuttin here. I was told 3 days damn it and its been way over a week!

The super moon was gonna cause it to happen. I was told I of all people should know it was imminent.

teedubya
03-27-2011, 08:02 AM
Hey what ever happened to that earthquake I was promised? I bought a lot of land in Arizona and some surfboards and I got nuttin here. I was told 3 days damn it and its been way over a week!

The super moon was gonna cause it to happen. I was told I of all people should know it was imminent.

There was a 7.0 in MYANMAR during the "seismic window". 7.0 is pretty big... and it was along the ring of fire. That geologist said from 18th-24th... and there was. He said that California looked ripe for a earthquake. Oh well, sorry you didn't get California quake doom, bro. I'm sure the people in the Philippines wish Cali had gotten that 7.0 instead, too.

notorious
03-27-2011, 08:14 AM
About a quark.


?

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9300000/Quark-ferengi-9330446-581-740.jpg


:D

Donger
03-27-2011, 08:47 AM
This is no shit, people. Chuckle it up, but this is worse than Chernobyl.

No, it isn't.

veist
03-27-2011, 11:44 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-27/status-reports-on-the-reactors-at-japan-s-fukushima-nuclear-plant-table.html

Via Bloomberg

Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said a “certain level of progress” has been made while speaking on an NHK television program today.

No. 1: Contaminated water in the turbine structure contains 10,000 times the radiation of regular cooling water, NHK said. The company has started removing contaminated water from the basement of the turbine building and will prepare more pumps to drain the water, the agency said. The unit has been damaged since a March 12 hydrogen explosion destroyed the building’s walls. The seriousness of the reactor’s threat to safety is rated level five on an international scale of 1-7.

No. 2: Contaminated water in the turbine structure contains 10 million times more radiation than normal cooling water, NHK said. The company plans to remove contaminated water as early as today, the agency said. The company plans to start using freshwater on fuel pool from March 28, the agency said. The containment chamber may have been damaged in a March 15 explosion, and a power cable was reconnected to the unit on March 19. The reactor is rated a level-five threat.

No. 3: Contaminated water in the turbine structure contains 10,000 times the normal radiation, NHK said. The company is considering ways to remove the contaminated water, the agency said. A March 14 explosion damaged the unit’s fuel cover. The reactor is rated a level-five threat.

No. 4: The company plans to spray water in the spent-fuel cooling pool this afternoon, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said. The agency said on March 17 there may be no water in the pool. It’s rated at three on the threat level. This reactor was undergoing maintenance when the earthquake hit.

No. 5: The unit was idle for maintenance before the earthquake.

No. 6: The reactor achieved cold shutdown at 7:27 p.m. on March 20 when the temperature fell below 100 degrees Celsius, the company said. A backup generator was fixed March 19, according to a company press release. The unit was idle for maintenance before the earthquake.

Of course without the context of the regular level the numbers are meaningless. If the regulated level is 1 μSv, 1 x 10^6 μSv is still only 10 sievert. Nothing to sneeze at but not the end of the world. Clearly its more than that but without knowing what the regular level is saying something is 10 million times the normal level really only serves to unjustifiably create panic.

veist
03-27-2011, 12:08 PM
This is no shit, people. Chuckle it up, but this is worse than Chernobyl. This is now, 3 Reactors in full meltdown mode, one of which is full of plutonium.

http://twitter.com/#!/REUTERSFLASH/status/51859532971909120

@REUTERSFLASH

#Japan plant operator says radioactivity in water at reactor No. 2 is 10 million times usual level, workers evacuated - local media

Also, no it isn't on both points. Its MOX fuel, its doped with like 7% Pu not "full of Pu" and the reactors haven't fracking exploded. And lets put how big the explosion at Chernobyl was in perspective. The RBMK reactor at Chernobyl was topped by the Upper Biological Shield a 3m thick concrete disc, clad top and bottom with 40mm of steel, with a 17m diameter weighing 1000 tons, it blew the thing off. The core was open to the air for days, it was on fire and open to the air for like 3 hours.

Easy 6
03-27-2011, 12:23 PM
I dont know if its already been said, but there are now Marine boots on the ground near these sites.

Thats bad enough, but they are apparently outfitted only with MOPP suits, which for those that dont know, is a charcoal lined suit & mask meant to protect against chemicals, not radiation.

They're being sent in there with their dicks in their hands.

Dave Lane
03-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Readings earlier today of very high radioactivity at nuclear power plant in Japan were incorrect, owner says. Results being re-evaluated.

Dave Lane
03-27-2011, 01:04 PM
I dont know if its already been said, but there are now Marine boots on the ground near these sites.

Thats bad enough, but they are apparently outfitted only with MOPP suits, which for those that dont know, is a charcoal lined suit & mask meant to protect against chemicals, not radiation.

They're being sent in there with their dicks in their hands.

There's no danger a few 100 yards away from the reactors. This is all wildly overblown.

Dave Lane
03-27-2011, 01:07 PM
Radiation levels remain extremely high in part of the No. 2 reactor complex at the earthquake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant although an earlier, even more alarming reading was incorrect, its owner said early Monday.

Water pooling in the reactor's turbine building was still giving off radioactivity at a level of 1,000 milliSieverts per hour, the Tokyo Electric Power Company told reporters. That's more than 330 times the dose an average person in a developed country receives per year, and four times the top dose Japan's health ministry has set for emergency workers struggling to prevent a meltdown at the damaged plant.

But Tokyo Electric said that figure is a mere 100,000 times normal levels for reactor coolant, not the 10 million times normal reported Sunday.

Tokyo Electric said Sunday that the water had contained a sharply elevated level of iodine-134, a short-lived isotope produced in a nuclear reaction. But after Japanese regulators questioned the readings, the utility conducted new tests that found a minimal level of the substance, the company said.

orange
03-27-2011, 03:00 PM
But Tokyo Electric said that figure is a mere 100,000 times normal levels for reactor coolant, not the 10 million times normal reported Sunday.

Tokyo Electric said Sunday that the water had contained a sharply elevated level of iodine-134, a short-lived isotope produced in a nuclear reaction. But after Japanese regulators questioned the readings, the utility conducted new tests that found a minimal level of the substance, the company said.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Eco7TB0Jqvc/S29E6OMUG3I/AAAAAAAABLU/1azel4K8I5Q/s400/Keystone+cops.jpg

Over-Head
03-27-2011, 04:08 PM
Funny how permission from the Federal government for building a new Nuke plant in Canada got squashed this past week.......Shame too,,,it was being built in Quebec :evil:

Otter
03-28-2011, 07:34 AM
An info-graphic to help understand the radiation measurement amounts.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/radiation.png

loochy
03-28-2011, 08:24 AM
An info-graphic to help understand the radiation measurement amounts.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/radiation.png

R

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-01-2011, 01:07 PM
For Baghdad al:

Germany's radioactive boars a legacy of Chernobyl

<cite class="vcard"> By JUERGEN BAETZ, Associated Press Juergen Baetz, Associated Press </cite> <abbr title="2011-04-01T02:41:18-0700" class="timedate">Fri Apr 1, 5:41 am ET</abbr>
BERLIN – For a look at just how long radioactivity can hang around, consider Germany's wild boars.

A quarter century after the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in the Soviet Union carried a cloud of radiation across Europe, these animals are radioactive enough that people are urged not to eat them. And the mushrooms the pigs dine on aren't fit for consumption either.
Germany's experience shows what could await Japan — if the problems at the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant get any worse.

The German boars roam in forests nearly 950 miles (1,500 kilometers ) from Chernobyl. Yet, the amount of radioactive cesium-137 within their tissue often registers dozens of times beyond the recommended limit for consumption and thousands of times above normal.

"We still feel the consequences of Chernobyl's fallout here," said Christian Kueppers, a radiation expert at Germany's Institute for Applied Ecology in Freiburg.

"The contamination won't go away any time soon — with cesium's half-life being roughly 30 years, the radioactivity will only slightly decrease in the coming years."

Cesium can build up in the body and high levels are thought to be a risk for various other cancers. Still, researchers who studied Chernobyl could not find an increase in cancers that might be linked to cesium.

Cesium also accumulates over time in the soil, which makes boars most susceptible They snuffle through forest soil with their snouts and feed on the kinds of mushroom that tend to store radioactivity, Environment Ministry spokesman Thomas Hagbeck said.
The problem is so common that now all wild boars bagged by hunters in the affected regions have to be checked for radiation. Government compensation to hunters whose quarry has to be destroyed has added up to euro460,000 ($650,000) over the past 12 months, Hagbeck said.

"It's really sad when you have to throw out meat that is normally extraordinarily tasty," said Joachim Reddemann, managing director of Bavaria state's hunting association.

Thousands of wild boars killed in southern Germany every year register unacceptable levels of radiation. It's calculated in becquerels, a measurement of radiation given off. Anything beyond 600 becquerels per kilogram isn't recommended, according to Germany's Federal Office for Radiation Protection.

Normal meat has an average contamination of 0.5 becquerel per kilogram, and a German would normally consume about 100 becquerels per year from plants and dairy products, the agency said.

About 2 percent of the 50,000 boars hunted are above the legal radioactivity limit, Reddemann said. And the government's radiation protection office says some mushrooms have registered up to 20 times the legal cesium limit.

Even farther away in France, there is still soil contamination, though levels have dropped significantly. It is now rare to find unsafe levels of cesium in boars and mushrooms, said radiation expert Philippe Renaud of France's Institute of Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety.

In Austria, too, traces of radioactive cesium remain in the soil. Along with boars and mushrooms, deer have been affected — some testing at five times the legal limit, that country's environment agency says.

Japan's Fukushima plant has so far not leaked nearly as much radiation as Chernobyl, but authorities there have banned the sale of milk, spinach, cabbage and other products from surrounding regions as a precaution.

European officials insist that occasionally eating contaminated boar meat or mushrooms does not pose an immediate health risk. Public health agencies are typically conservative in setting limits for radioactivity in food.

Eating 200 grams of mushrooms tested seven times above the legal cesium limit, for example, would amount to the same exposure as the altitude radiation taken in during a 2,000-mile flight, according to Germany's Office for Radiation Protection.

In Austria, authorities say that eating the unlikely amount of 2 pounds of contaminated boar meat that is 10 times above the legal cesium limit would amount to two-thirds of an adult's normal annual radiation intake by food.

However, the possibility of exposure will not be going away anytime soon.

"We assume that wild game will still be similarly affected until 2025 and then very slowly recede," said Reddemann, of Bavaria's hunting association. "The problem will certainly still be around for the next 100 years, and Chernobyl will still be an issue for our children and grandchildren."
___

Donger
04-01-2011, 01:13 PM
Germany's experience shows what could await Japan — if the problems at the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant get any worse.

I pretty much stopped reading after this gem.

teedubya
04-01-2011, 01:45 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wXEEO_QHWSw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Easy 6
04-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Well i for one, feel a lot better now.

orange
04-01-2011, 02:24 PM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wXEEO_QHWSw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yo, teedubya,

Eight seconds in - YOUR NEW AVATAR!

teedubya
04-02-2011, 01:40 AM
Greenpeace did some research 30-45km from Fukushima... the radiation is off the charts in some places. You know [you] won't watch this video, heh.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nlLMTqOWXec" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It was reading very high in some places.

https://img.skitch.com/20110402-nyk1k2kw3g8cr4iahj43qaynn7.jpg

notorious
04-03-2011, 08:10 AM
Wow, just Wow!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_japan_chernobyl_jumper

SINGAPORE (Reuters)

Six times, Sergei Belyakov says, he has been through the doorway to hell and back.


The Ukrainian-American was a volunteer "jumper" who helped clean up after the nuclear disaster in the town of Chernobyl in the former Soviet Union in April, 1986.

These are people who jump into a radioactive area to clear debris or mend pipes and run to safety before radiation reaches lethal levels.

Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) is trying to get jumpers -- reportedly for $5,000 a day -- to bring its damaged nuclear power plant in northern Japan under control after it was severely damaged by last month's earthquake and tsunami, the world's worst nuclear crisis since Chernobyl.

Six times during his 40-day tenure at Chernobyl, Belyakov was one of the hundreds crouching in the covered stairway leading to the roof of nuclear reactors 3 and 4. Outside, radioactivity was so high that it could kill within minutes.

"It was the doorway to hell," he told Reuters, recalling events of 25 years ago. "Right at the door there was an elaborate and professionally done drawing on the wall, like a fresco, which showed you the roof in 3-D.

"The guy (at the door) tells you, you go here, you do this, you go around this, this ladder is not good so don't go there because you may fall with it. You mentally imprint what you need to do, you follow that. Then you run."

He would hack away at highly toxic asphalt on the roof and toss it down to be buried, but for a very limited time. The longest he spent on the roof was two minutes, the shortest between 30-40 seconds.

"The guy yells (to) you or you have your own judgment (to come back). Once you are done, you go down. There were 700-900 people collected on that staircase. It was a moving, never-ending chain of people."

Now 55 and a U.S. citizen, Belyakov is a scientist working in Singapore for research group Albany Molecular Research Inc. But he says those days in 1986 are seared in his mind.

The first time on the roof, he said, was the worst. "The goggles were sweaty and I perhaps lost 10 pounds just in these few moments because it was completely a shocking experience."

Belyakov was an associate professor at a Ukrainian university in 1986. He first sensed something was wrong at Chernobyl while he was on a fishing holiday and noticed that water levels in the Dnipro River were plummeting, a sign that dams upstream had been closed.

It was weeks before Soviet authorities acknowledged the gravity of the crisis. Belyakov, also an army reservist who had been trained in chemical warfare defense, volunteered to help despite his wife's objections.

"She wasn't happy obviously, but I put my foot down. I did not expect the scale of what I am going to experience. If I knew that in advance, I perhaps would think twice.

He was called up in July, and sent to Chernobyl. He would spend 23 shifts at the plant itself, protected only by lead sheets below waist level at the front and the back. Other gear include heavy gloves and respirators, but these could not protect against radioactivity.

Workers had to leave when they were exposed to 2 Roentgen of radiation per day, about 240 millisieverts. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency says a dose of 500 millisieverts would cause nausea and 1,000 would cause hemorrhage.

After sustaining 25 Roentgen of radiation, the Chernobyl workers were sent home. Many have since died prematurely. Belyakov says he knows of at least five other men who worked there who died within 10 years.

But as many of them reach their mid-50s, it is hard to isolate the Chernobyl radiation as a cause of death, he said.

"I was blessed perhaps," Belyakov says. He was ill for several months, but shows no visible signs now and is a keen basketball player.

"The action of radiation on a living organism is extremely different -- there are people who can sustain that very well, unfortunately there are people who get just a pinch of what a normal human being would get and it would be lethal."

Belyakov shrugged off comments about personal bravery.

"You do it step by step," he said.

"You break down your task -- I have to make 100 steps to the ladder, then I have to climb through the ladder, then I have to make 70 steps right side, then I have to make three or four cuts of that asphalt, then I have to grab a shovel, collect the pieces and toss it out.

"You kind of break your task into small details. And each small task doesn't look that scary."

Belyakov did not get much for his heroics.

"There was enough for us to buy an 18 day long travel trip to India," he said. "It was our first trip abroad. It was fascinating, I still cherish it.

Asked if he had any advice for those considering similar work at the Fukushima plant in Japan, he said: "Being brave doesn't mean that it comes from your nature.

"It comes from your logic, it comes from your good mind and ability to analyze your situation and make sound decisions. As long as you are capable of sustaining the pressure and sustaining the fear, you can do pretty much whatever you want.

"I can eat pressure for breakfast."

Donger
04-03-2011, 12:59 PM
It sounds like they've determined where the leak is and are trying to repair.

Donger
04-04-2011, 01:43 PM
TEPCO has gotten permission to dump about 10,000 tons of contaminated water into the Pacific. That's 3 million gallons.

Bwana
04-04-2011, 01:45 PM
TEPCO has gotten permission to dump about 10,000 tons of contaminated water into the Pacific. That's 3 million gallons.

Great :spock:

Donger
04-04-2011, 01:47 PM
Great :spock:

It's better than the alternative.

Bwana
04-04-2011, 01:48 PM
It's better than the alternative.

Perhaps, but you talk about a no win.

Donger
04-04-2011, 01:51 PM
Perhaps, but you talk about a no win.

They wouldn't be doing this unless they pretty much had to, but yeah, it's not great. However, the Pacific's a big place and this will very quickly be diluted.

Pants
04-04-2011, 02:02 PM
Hopefully this creates a mutant whale army that will wage a war on Japanese whalers. That would be ironic.


And awesome.

teedubya
04-04-2011, 02:03 PM
Glow in the dark seafood will be delicious... and easy to find.

LiveSteam
04-04-2011, 02:05 PM
Hopefully this creates a mutant whale army that will wage a war on Japanese whalers. That would be ironic.


And awesome.

Godzilla & that flying creature

Donger
04-04-2011, 02:06 PM
Glow in the dark seafood will be delicious... and easy to find.

The water being intentionally discharged isn't highly radioactive. It's about 10 times what is permitted in food/water.

teedubya
04-04-2011, 02:10 PM
11,500 tons times 2240 lbs/ton divided by 8.33 lbs/gallon = 3.094 million gallons of radioactive water

Jeesh. Radiative water... plus all of the corexit from the Gulf oil spill. Seafood is not going to be in my diet anymore.

Which sucks because I would love one of those Taco Bell Pacific Shrimp tacos... heh.

Baby Lee
04-04-2011, 02:11 PM
Hopefully this creates a mutant whale army that will wage a war on Japanese whalers. That would be ironic.


And awesome.

Foork yoo Wharrres!!!

teedubya
04-04-2011, 02:12 PM
The water being intentionally discharged isn't highly radioactive. It's about 10 times what is permitted in food/water.

Dude the water in those reactors were 10,000+ times more radioactive, they have stated numerous times.

You are FARRRR too trusting of the official line of bullshit they try to sell us, man. Boarding on gullibility.

Donger
04-04-2011, 02:14 PM
Dude the water in those reactors were 10,000+ times more radioactive, they have stated numerous times.

You are FARRRR too trusting of the official line of bullshit they try to sell us, man. Boarding on gullibility.

They are discharging this water to prevent the need to discharge the really nasty water. The water they are intentionally discharging is not directly from the RPV.

Basically, you are wrong.

teedubya
04-04-2011, 02:15 PM
Keep believing that, man. I'm sure none of the really nasty water is getting out. wink wink.

Donger
04-04-2011, 02:17 PM
Keep believing that, man. I'm sure none of the really nasty water is getting out. wink wink.

Highly contaminated water IS leaking into the Pacific. They are intentionally discharging the low level water in an attempt to stop the high level water from leaking into the Pacific.

Do you even pay attention?

Pants
04-04-2011, 02:19 PM
Foork yoo Wharrres!!!

One of the greatest episodes ever? I think so.

Donger
04-04-2011, 02:19 PM
11,500 tons times 2240 lbs/ton divided by 8.33 lbs/gallon = 3.094 million gallons of radioactive water

Jeesh. Radiative water... plus all of the corexit from the Gulf oil spill. Seafood is not going to be in my diet anymore.

Which sucks because I would love one of those Taco Bell Pacific Shrimp tacos... heh.

I made scampi and New Orleans BBQ with shrimp from Vietnam last night. They were delicious.

jiveturkey
04-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Which sucks because I would love one of those Taco Bell Pacific Shrimp tacos... heh.You apparently have a highly refined palate. I bet you spend your weekends eating snails and drinking fine wine too.

Chiefnj2
04-04-2011, 02:21 PM
The water being intentionally discharged isn't highly radioactive. It's about 10 times what is permitted in food/water.

"The less-radioactive water that officials are purposely dumping into the sea is up to 500 times the legal limit for radiation."

LiveSteam
04-04-2011, 02:27 PM
Coming to a shore near you
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5h9pCqrvp00" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

teedubya
04-04-2011, 02:28 PM
Everytime Donger posts... it reminds me of this.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

Hydrae
04-04-2011, 02:35 PM
Godzilla & that flying creature

Mothra?


:shake: Kids these days, not knowing the classic movies.

Donger
04-04-2011, 02:36 PM
"The less-radioactive water that officials are purposely dumping into the sea is up to 500 times the legal limit for radiation."

Not in water or food.

Donger
04-04-2011, 02:37 PM
Everytime Donger posts... it reminds me of this.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

Well, yeah, except that I'm actually accurate.

You?

teedubya
04-04-2011, 02:44 PM
I've never met someone who clings to the official story as much as you, Donger. I love how you admitted that you have no real friends. This is no surprise to me. You are pigheaded and stubborn and always buy the official storyline they sell you.

You need to think for yourself and connect the dots, in today's Amurka. They tell us about 1/10th of the truth... It's hard for me to believe the official story, because most of the time, it's complete crap meant to lull the sheeple back to sleep.

Oh, only 10x more radioactive... OK, whew... back to American Idol then.

Pants
04-04-2011, 02:47 PM
I've never met someone who clings to the official story as much as you, Donger. I love how you admitted that you have no real friends. This is no surprise to me. You are pigheaded and stubborn and always buy the official storyline they sell you.

You need to think for yourself and connect the dots, in today's Amurka. They tell us about 1/10th of the truth... It's hard for me to believe the official story, because most of the time, it's complete crap meant to lull the sheeple back to sleep.

Oh, only 10x more radiative... OK, whew... back to American Idol then.

I'm pretty sure Donger just subscribes to the Occam's Razor theory, which is pretty much a good way to see things. But I don't want to speak for him.

Donger
04-04-2011, 02:47 PM
I've never met someone who clings to the official story as much as you, Donger. I love how you admitted that you have no real friends. This is no surprise to me. You are pigheaded and stubborn and always buy the official storyline they sell you.

You need to think for yourself and connect the dots, in today's Amurka. They tell us about 1/10th of the truth... It's hard for me to believe the official story, because most of the time, it's complete crap meant to lull the sheeple back to sleep.

Oh, only 10x more radiative... OK, whew... back to American Idol then.

Uh, this is actually happening in Japan.

cdcox
04-04-2011, 02:54 PM
Oh, only 10x more radioactive... OK, whew... back to American Idol then.

3 million gallons is only like a volume 75 ft x 75 ft x 75 ft. Very miniscule in comparison to the size of the ocean. Once that spreads out to an area 230 ft by 230 ft x 75 ft, it is back to 1x.

The problem isn't non-existent, but it isn't that big of a deal either at this stage.

Donger
04-04-2011, 03:46 PM
I'm pretty sure Donger just subscribes to the Occam's Razor theory, which is pretty much a good way to see things. But I don't want to speak for him.

The recommended safe limit is 2,000 becquerels per kilogram. The water being intentionally discharged is 20 becquerels per cubic centimeter (at worst). So, that's 20,000 becquerels per kilogram.

That sounds really scary, but keep in mind that just below that limit is what you can safely DRINK with no other mixing.

Is this a good thing? No, of course not. But is it going to do what Ari described above? No, of course not.

veist
04-04-2011, 03:53 PM
Greenpeace did some research 30-45km from Fukushima... the radiation is off the charts in some places. You know JimNasium won't watch this video, heh.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nlLMTqOWXec" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It was reading very high in some places.

https://img.skitch.com/20110402-nyk1k2kw3g8cr4iahj43qaynn7.jpg

Bet these are alpha counts, or they wouldn't be standing there acting like it ain't no thing.

edit: spelling

BossChief
04-04-2011, 05:10 PM
Donger, if I may be so bold as to ask, what do you do for a living?

Donger
04-04-2011, 05:15 PM
Donger, if I may be so bold as to ask, what do you do for a living?

I sell stuff.

RedNeckRaider
04-04-2011, 05:31 PM
I sell stuff.

I have been looking for a good used car~

Donger
04-04-2011, 05:34 PM
I have been looking for a good used car~

LMAO

Pants
04-04-2011, 05:35 PM
Hey Donger, you know how you could buy a 911 Turbo but you don't really need it because your GTI is just fine as far as you're concerned? Well, can I have the 911 Turbo?

Donger
04-04-2011, 05:40 PM
Hey Donger, you know how you could buy a 911 Turbo but you don't really need it because your GTI is just fine as far as you're concerned?

Yes.

Well, can I have the 911 Turbo?

No.

Pants
04-04-2011, 05:41 PM
No.

You're an asshole, you know that?

Donger
04-04-2011, 05:42 PM
You're an asshole, you know that?

Yes.

Amnorix
04-04-2011, 07:48 PM
Mothra?


:shake: Kids these days, not knowing the classic movies.


Or Rodan.

Probably not Gamera, though he could fly of course.


http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1001/giant-flying-turtle-gamera-flying-everything-demotivational-poster-1262667559.jpg

Bwana
04-05-2011, 07:18 AM
Heh

http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=1325

Chiefnj2
04-05-2011, 07:30 AM
Donger: Nothing to see here. Just a little radioactive water.

Reporting from Tokyo—
The operator of Japan's stricken Fukushima nuclear plant said Tuesday that it had found radioactive iodine at 7.5 million times the legal limit in a seawater sample taken near the facility, and government officials imposed a new health limit for radioactivity in fish.

The reading of iodine-131 was recorded Saturday, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. Another sample taken Monday found the level to be 5 million times the legal limit. The Monday samples also were found to contain radioactive cesium at 1.1 million times the legal limit.

The exact source of the radiation was not immediately clear, though Tepco has said that highly contaminated water has been leaking from a pit near the No. 2 reactor. The utility initially believed that the leak was coming from a crack, but several attempts to seal the crack failed.

On Tuesday the company said the leak instead might be coming from a faulty joint where the pit meets a duct, allowing radioactive water to seep into a layer of gravel underneath. The utility said it would inject "liquid glass" into gravel in an effort to stop further leakage.

Hydrae
04-05-2011, 08:34 AM
Don't know if this has been posted but there are some amazing pics here.


http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp/daiichi-photos.htm

Dave Lane
04-05-2011, 11:21 AM
Donger is like it or not completely accurate. And the 5,000,000 time amount was proven to be inaccurate. Also radioactive Iodine's half life is very short about 8.02 days and its basically gone.

teedubya
04-05-2011, 11:30 AM
Donger is like it or not completely accurate. And the 5,000,000 time amount was proven to be inaccurate. Also radioactive Iodine's half life is very short about 8.02 days and its basically gone.

Yeah, the radioactive iodine is one thing... the radioactive Xenon 133 and the Caesium 137.... and the plutonium have an entirely different and much longer half-life.

But, you'd have to research and know where to look to find such information.

Luckily, I do that for you.

http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?VAR=nilujapan131

Caesium 137 Surface (http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?LANG=us&VAR=euradsfc)
Caesium 137 2500m (http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?LANG=us&VAR=eurad2500)
Caesium 137 5000m (http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?LANG=us&VAR=eurad5000)

This shit isn't bad for Earth, AT ALL... no, I'm so glad that instead of doing anything about it, and giving us warnings or updated radiation levels around the globe, what the US Amurkan govt does, is instead RAISE the radiation exposure limits... heh.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tFTqCOVwTeA/TZgNzLbfqOI/AAAAAAAAIMw/2nq9Y8gjuMg/s1600/sheeple.jpg

orange
04-05-2011, 11:37 AM
Radioactivity in sea up 7.5 million times
Marine life contamination well beyond Japan feared

By KANAKO TAKAHARA
Staff writer
Tuesday, April 5, 2011


Radioactive iodine-131 readings taken from seawater near the water intake of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant's No. 2 reactor reached 7.5 million times the legal limit, Tokyo Electric Power Co. admitted Tuesday.

The sample that yielded the high reading was taken Saturday, before Tepco announced Monday it would start releasing radioactive water into the sea, and experts fear the contamination may spread well beyond Japan's shores to affect seafood overseas.

The unstoppable radioactive discharge into the Pacific has prompted experts to sound the alarm, as cesium, which has a much longer half-life than iodine, is expected to concentrate in the upper food chain.

According to Tepco, some 300,000 becquerels per sq. centimeter of radioactive iodine-131 was detected Saturday, while the amount of cesium-134 was 2 million times the maximum amount permitted and cesium-137 was 1.3 million times the amount allowable.

The amount of iodine-131 dropped to 79,000 becquerels per sq. centimeter Sunday but shot up again Monday to 200,000 becquerels, 5 million times the permissible amount.

The level of radioactive iodine in the polluted water inside reactor 2's cracked storage pit had an even higher concentration. A water sample Saturday had 5.2 million becquerels of iodine per sq. centimeter, or 130 million times the maximum amount allowable, and water leaking from the crack had a reading of 5.4 million becquerels, Tepco said.

"It is a considerably high amount," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, spokesman for the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.

Masayoshi Yamamoto, a professor of radiology at Kanazawa University, said the high level of cesium is the more worrisome find.

"By the time radioactive iodine is taken in by plankton, which is eaten by smaller fish and then by bigger fish, it will be diluted by the sea and the amount will decrease because of its eight-day half-life," Yamamoto said. "But cesium is a bigger problem."

The half-life of cesium-137 is 30 years, while that for cesium-134 is two years. The longer half-life means it will probably concentrate in the upper food chain.

Yamamoto said such radioactive materials are likely to be detected in fish and other marine products in Japan and other nations in the short and long run, posing a serious threat to the seafood industry in other nations as well.

"All of Japan's sea products will probably be labeled unsafe and other nations will blame Japan if radiation is detected in their marine products," Yamamoto said.

Tepco on Monday began the release into the sea of 11,500 tons of low-level radioactive water to make room to store high-level radiation-polluted water in the No. 2 turbine building. The discharge continued Tuesday.

"It is important to transfer the water in the No. 2 turbine building and store it in a place where there is no leak," Nishiyama of the NISA said. "We want to keep the contamination of the sea to a minimum."

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano apologized for the release of radioactive water into the sea but said it was unavoidable to prevent the spread of higher-level radiation.

Fisheries minister Michihiko Kano said the ministry plans to increase its inspections of fish and other marine products for radiation.

On Monday, 4,080 becquerels per kilogram of radioactive iodine was detected in lance fish caught off Ibaraki Prefecture. Fishermen voluntarily suspended its shipment. The health ministry plans to compile radiation criteria for banning marine products.

Three days after Tepco discovered the crack in the reactor 2 storage pit it still hadn't found the source of the high radiation leak seeping into the Pacific.

Tepco initially believed the leak was somewhere in the cable trench that connects the No. 2 turbine building and the pit. But after using milky white bath salt to trace the flow, which appeared to prove that was not the case, the utility began to think it may be seeping through a layer of small stones below the cable trench.

Information from Kyodo added




more: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110405x1.html

teedubya
04-05-2011, 11:38 AM
Radioactivity in sea up 7.5 million times
Marine life contamination well beyond Japan feared

By KANAKO TAKAHARA
Staff writer
Tuesday, April 5, 2011


Radioactive iodine-131 readings taken from seawater near the water intake of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant's No. 2 reactor reached 7.5 million times the legal limit, Tokyo Electric Power Co. admitted Tuesday.

The sample that yielded the high reading was taken Saturday, before Tepco announced Monday it would start releasing radioactive water into the sea, and experts fear the contamination may spread well beyond Japan's shores to affect seafood overseas.

The unstoppable radioactive discharge into the Pacific has prompted experts to sound the alarm, as cesium, which has a much longer half-life than iodine, is expected to concentrate in the upper food chain.

According to Tepco, some 300,000 becquerels per sq. centimeter of radioactive iodine-131 was detected Saturday, while the amount of cesium-134 was 2 million times the maximum amount permitted and cesium-137 was 1.3 million times the amount allowable.

The amount of iodine-131 dropped to 79,000 becquerels per sq. centimeter Sunday but shot up again Monday to 200,000 becquerels, 5 million times the permissible amount.

The level of radioactive iodine in the polluted water inside reactor 2's cracked storage pit had an even higher concentration. A water sample Saturday had 5.2 million becquerels of iodine per sq. centimeter, or 130 million times the maximum amount allowable, and water leaking from the crack had a reading of 5.4 million becquerels, Tepco said.

"It is a considerably high amount," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, spokesman for the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.

Masayoshi Yamamoto, a professor of radiology at Kanazawa University, said the high level of cesium is the more worrisome find.

"By the time radioactive iodine is taken in by plankton, which is eaten by smaller fish and then by bigger fish, it will be diluted by the sea and the amount will decrease because of its eight-day half-life," Yamamoto said. "But cesium is a bigger problem."

The half-life of cesium-137 is 30 years, while that for cesium-134 is two years. The longer half-life means it will probably concentrate in the upper food chain.

more: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110405x1.html

No no... shut up. Everything is fine. It's perfectly normal to contaminate the ocean. It's a big ocean, man. It's fine... Oh, and the seafood in the Gulf of Mexico is extra delicious now. Corexit is actually a nutrient, now. FDA is making an adjustment to the Food chain to include radiation and corexit as part of the food pyramid. It's the five food groups now. Fruit, Dairy, Meat, Grains & GMO/Radiation/Corexit. You need to get 2 of each for your daily allowance.

It will make you extra strong. The Amurkan govt told me so.

LiveSteam
04-05-2011, 11:42 AM
Heh

http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=1325

Nice find.

The internal documents show that under the updated PAG a single glass of water could give a lifetime’s permissible exposure. In addition, it would allow long-term cleanup limits thousands of times more lax than anything EPA has ever before accepted. These new limits would cause a cancer in as much as every fourth person exposed. :huh:

teedubya
04-05-2011, 11:44 AM
Nice find.

The internal documents show that under the updated PAG a single glass of water could give a lifetime’s permissible exposure. In addition, it would allow long-term cleanup limits thousands of times more lax than anything EPA has ever before accepted. These new limits would cause a cancer in as much as every fourth person exposed. :huh:

Dude, be quiet. You are part of the problem. We want sheep not freethinkers. Quit that reading shit...

Everything is fine. Donger and Dave Lane said so.

orange
04-05-2011, 11:57 AM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/newsgraphics/2011/0405-japan-leak/0405-web-JAPAN.png

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/04/05/world/asia/20110405-japan-leak.html?ref=asia

Donger
04-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Donger: Nothing to see here. Just a little radioactive water.

Reporting from Tokyo—
The operator of Japan's stricken Fukushima nuclear plant said Tuesday that it had found radioactive iodine at 7.5 million times the legal limit in a seawater sample taken near the facility, and government officials imposed a new health limit for radioactivity in fish.

The reading of iodine-131 was recorded Saturday, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. Another sample taken Monday found the level to be 5 million times the legal limit. The Monday samples also were found to contain radioactive cesium at 1.1 million times the legal limit.

The exact source of the radiation was not immediately clear, though Tepco has said that highly contaminated water has been leaking from a pit near the No. 2 reactor. The utility initially believed that the leak was coming from a crack, but several attempts to seal the crack failed.

On Tuesday the company said the leak instead might be coming from a faulty joint where the pit meets a duct, allowing radioactive water to seep into a layer of gravel underneath. The utility said it would inject "liquid glass" into gravel in an effort to stop further leakage.

It seems very likely that water from the RPV of #2 is leaking at this point. You may note that above I was discussing the INTENTIONAL discharge of lower-level (much lower level) radioactive water. They are doing this so that they DON'T have to discharge the really nasty water.

Sorry, I thought that was clear.

Donger
04-05-2011, 05:29 PM
Yeah, the radioactive iodine is one thing... the radioactive Xenon 133 and the Caesium 137.... and the plutonium have an entirely different and much longer half-life.

But, you'd have to research and know where to look to find such information.

Luckily, I do that for you.

http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?VAR=nilujapan131

Caesium 137 Surface (http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?LANG=us&VAR=euradsfc)
Caesium 137 2500m (http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?LANG=us&VAR=eurad2500)
Caesium 137 5000m (http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?LANG=us&VAR=eurad5000)

This shit isn't bad for Earth, AT ALL... no, I'm so glad that instead of doing anything about it, and giving us warnings or updated radiation levels around the globe, what the US Amurkan govt does, is instead RAISE the radiation exposure limits... heh.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tFTqCOVwTeA/TZgNzLbfqOI/AAAAAAAAIMw/2nq9Y8gjuMg/s1600/sheeple.jpg

Plotunium? I thought the only MOX was in #4?

Donger
04-05-2011, 05:33 PM
No no... shut up. Everything is fine. It's perfectly normal to contaminate the ocean. It's a big ocean, man. It's fine... Oh, and the seafood in the Gulf of Mexico is extra delicious now. Corexit is actually a nutrient, now. FDA is making an adjustment to the Food chain to include radiation and corexit as part of the food pyramid. It's the five food groups now. Fruit, Dairy, Meat, Grains & GMO/Radiation/Corexit. You need to get 2 of each for your daily allowance.

It will make you extra strong. The Amurkan govt told me so.

Who said everything was fine?

And, it IS a big ocean. No one outside the plant is going to be killed or probably even get sick from the radiation that has either been deliberately or unintentionally discharged.

The Gulf is fine, BTW, as is the food within it.

But, keep trying. One day, you may actually be accurate and get a nice, big, fat body count.

Donger
04-05-2011, 08:02 PM
And, they've stopped the leak of the highly radioactive water in #2 reactor.

DaKCMan AP
04-06-2011, 09:06 AM
For you chicken-littles who don't know what you're talking about:

Worried about a radioactive ocean? A reality check

By MALCOLM RITTER, AP Science Writer

Wed Apr 6, 6:09 am ETNEW YORK – This week, workers at the stricken Japanese nuclear plant dumped radioactive water into the ocean to make room for storing even more highly contaminated water on the site. The water dumping came after earlier leaks of radioactive water that had already raised concerns about its effects in the ocean, raising questions about health and safety. Here are answers to some of those questions.

Q. Can you see radiation? LMAO
A. No, you can't see, taste or smell it.

Q. How does radiation travel?
A. In the air, it moves as energy waves. That's how an X-ray machine looks inside you. At the Japanese nuclear plant complex, workers have been exposed to such waves, as well as radioactive particles. Over long distances, tiny radioactive particles on dust are blown by the wind. It can come back down to Earth with rain.
In the water, microscopic radioactive particles are carried along by the currents.

Q. How dangerous is radiation?
A. We live in a world of radiation. It is in the water we drink, the food we eat, the very air we breathe. Most of the radiation we are exposed to comes from outer space, the decaying of uranium in the earth, and medical procedures like X-rays and CT scans.

Q. How is radiation measured?
A. Radiation is often measured as a dose or exposure — the amount of radiation absorbed over a certain time. It's generally measured in millirems in the United States, and millisieverts elsewhere. The average place on Earth exposes people to about 300 millirems, or 3 millisieverts, every year. A chest X-ray exposes a patient to about 10 millirems, or 0.1 millisievert.

Q. How can radiation hurt us?
A. Too much radiation in a short time can cause deadly radiation sickness, with its signature symptoms of nausea, dizziness and hair loss. High doses can also cause cancer decades later. It can lead to congenital defects in future children of exposed adults.

Q. So how much radiation is too much radiation?
A. Natural background radiation in the environment varies greatly at different places on Earth, depending on altitude, geology and other factors. In theory, any increase in radiation can lead to a higher risk of cancer. In practice, though, population studies find no apparent elevated risk of cancer even at the highest levels of background radiation. And the most respected radiation experts say people can tolerate at least 10,000 millirems (100 millisieverts) in a short period with no discernible harm. On the other hand, much larger doses — like 400,000 millirems or 4,000 millisieverts — will cause radiation sickness and cancer in many people. That would be the rough equivalent of 40,000 chest X-rays.

Q. Can the radioactive water leaking from the Japanese nuclear plant eventually reach the U.S. and be hazardous?
A. It's hard to say how that water will move, because it will spread not only on the surface but downward in deep layers of the Pacific Ocean. If it does reach the West Coast, it would probably take at least 18 months to three years, by one estimate. In any case, nobody expects it would pose a radiation hazard upon arrival because of tremendous dilution along the way.
Airborne radioactive particles have already reached the United States, but federal authorities say the measured levels aren't dangerous.

Q. Weren't the workers at the nuclear plant treated for burns after coming into contact with radioactive water? What if someone swam in the ocean off the coast of Japan?
A. The kind of radiation levels the workers experienced cause sunburn-like burns in about a half-hour to an hour. But swimming near the plant is banned, and radiation levels of water dumped in the ocean decline quickly with distance from the complex.

Q. What radioactive elements are leaking and what are the risks?
A. Measurements so far have focused mostly on iodine and cesium, which were responsible for most of the radiation dose to the public at the Chernobyl disaster.
Radiation from iodine-131 dissipates quickly, falling by half every eight days, so that it's virtually gone in 80 days. Its danger is that if inhaled or swallowed, it can concentrate in the thyroid and cause cancer.
Cesium radiation sticks around much longer, taking 30 years to decline by half and 300 years to virtually disappear. Cesium can build up in the body and high levels are thought to be a risk for various other cancers. Still, researchers who studied Chernobyl could not find an increase in cancers that might be linked to cesium.

Q. Will ocean creatures be harmed by the discharges of the radioactive water?
A. Experts say animals very near the plant may face problems like higher rates of genetic mutations, but that this would probably happen within only maybe a half a mile or so.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110406/ap_on_sc/us_sci_radiation_q_a;_ylt=AkCFHDE9fxxPFAdc8IlputCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlMnZsM2wwBHBvcwM2NwRzZWMDYWNjb3Jk aW9uX3Vfc19uZXdzBHNsawN3b3JyaWVkYWJvdXQ-

gblowfish
04-06-2011, 09:13 AM
All this is just another reason not to eat sushi.

DaKCMan AP
04-06-2011, 09:29 AM
All this is just another reason not to eat sushi.

Nonsense. However, go ahead with that plan to leave more delicious sushi for me.

DaFace
04-06-2011, 09:32 AM
For you chicken-littles who don't know what you're talking about:

You're just a sheep that listens to everything the gubment (and scientists) say about it.

DaKCMan AP
04-06-2011, 11:32 AM
You're just a sheep that listens to everything the gubment (and scientists) say about it.

;)

loochy
04-06-2011, 11:37 AM
For you chicken-littles who don't know what you're talking about:

Wait so radioactive doesn't mean green glowing goo!?

Donger
04-06-2011, 06:53 PM
IAEA reporting that TEPCO is injecting nitrogen into the primary containment vessel of #1 to displace the oxygen and hydrogen (so things don't go "Boom!" again).

Extra Point
04-06-2011, 09:41 PM
IAEA reporting that TEPCO is injecting nitrogen into the primary containment vessel of #1 to displace the oxygen and hydrogen (so things don't go "Boom!" again).

Not to displace, but to generate, air: folding within air, an isotope that will will settle into the ocean. Thus, it creating a new type of three-eye cod, putting it into to new genus. Puts them into the gamefish category, due to an improved sense of sight.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-11-2011, 10:29 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703841904576256742249147126.html

Japanese Declare Crisis at Level of Chernobyl


By PHRED DVORAK (http://online.wsj.com/search/term.html?KEYWORDS=PHRED+DVORAK&bylinesearch=true), JURO OSAWA (http://online.wsj.com/search/term.html?KEYWORDS=JURO+OSAWA&bylinesearch=true) and YUKA HAYASHI (http://online.wsj.com/search/term.html?KEYWORDS=YUKA+HAYASHI&bylinesearch=true)

TOKYO—The Japanese government raised its assessment of the monthlong crisis at its Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to the highest severity level by international standards—a rating only conferred so far upon the Chernobyl accident.
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http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-NM154_0411jl_D_20110411205748.jpg
<cite>ZUMAPRESS.com</cite> Japanese Police wearing protective suits searched for victims inside the deserted evacuation zone in Minamisoma in Fukushima Prefecture.

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Japan's nuclear regulators said the plant has likely released so much radiation into the environment that it must boost the accident's severity rating on the International Nuclear Event scale to a 7 from 5 currently. That is the same level reached by the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in the former Soviet Union, which struck almost exactly 25 years ago, on April 26, 1986.
"Based on the cumulative data we've gathered, we can finally give an estimate of total radioactive materials emitted,'' Hidehiko Nishiyama, spokesman for Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, said at a press conference Tuesday.
Even as they upgraded their assessment of the situation, Japanese officials went to lengths to say that the problem they are struggling to contain isn't anywhere near the disaster of Chernobyl.
"It is quite different from Chernobyl," said Mr. Nishiyama. "First, the amount of released radiation is about a tenth of Chernobyl," he said, adding that while there were 29 deaths resulting from short-term exposure to high doses of radiation at Chernobyl, there were no such deaths at Fukushima.
"At Chernobyl, the nuclear reactor itself exploded," he said, adding that at the Fukushima plant, the pressure vessel and the containment vessel were largely intact.
Still, Fukushima Daiichi operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. warned Tuesday that since the Fukushima Daiichi plant is still releasing radioactive materials, the total level of radiation released could eventually exceed that of Chernobyl, a spokesman said.
Gauging the Threat

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The new assessment comes as Japan admits that the effects of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear accident—which has already caused the evacuation of tens of thousands of people and spread radiation through groundwater and farms over a broad section of eastern Japan—are likely to be long-lasting and grave. The accident was precipitated by the massive March 11 earthquake and tsunami, which knocked out Fukushima Daiichi's power and cooling systems, causing several of the reactors to overheat.
The International Nuclear Event scale, whose development is coordinated by the International Atomic Energy Agency, measures the severity of accidents based on how much radiation is released, the degree of damage to the nuclear cores and how widespread and long-lasting the effects are likely to be.
Level 5—the previous level given the Fukushima Daiichi accident—indicates a "limited release'' of radioactive materials requiring "some planned countermeasures.'' The 1978 Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania was rated a 5.
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<cite>European Pressphoto Agency</cite>

The reactor building of Unit 1-2 at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station on Sunday.

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<cite>ZUMAPRESS.com</cite> Houses collapsed by the earthquake and tsunami in Minamisoma.

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Level 7 labels this "a major accident," the most serious on the international scale. It means high levels of radiation have been released, and that the amount of time needed to bring the plant under control will require an extended period. But not all "major accidents" are equal in severity.


The decision to upgrade formally the severity of the accident came a day after Japan broadened the 12-mile nuclear evacuation zone around the plant to include all or part of five towns and villages that housed tens of thousands of people before the disaster, a sign that officials now see the long-term risks as far higher than originally estimated.


And the crisis appears far from over, with constant reminders that efforts to bring the crippled reactors under control are far from complete. Operator Tepco scrambled to keep reactors stable in the wake of another big earthquake Monday and a battery fire Tuesday morning, signs of how vulnerable the plant remains a month after the quake.
Experts have predicted it could take months for Tepco to bring Fukushima Daiichi's reactors truly under control, and years to clean up the plant itself.


Japanese nuclear regulators determined that after the accident, the plant has likely released tens of thousands of terabecquerels—or a mind-boggling tens of thousands of trillions of becquerels—of radiation in the immediate area. That's a level that's been recorded only during the Chernobyl accident.


While the new assessment puts Fukushima on a par with Chernobyl, there are key differences between the two, suggesting the Ukraine disaster was still far more serious.


In the case of Chernobyl, a graphite fire burned uncontrolled for days, spewing out radioactive smoke that spread around the world. Fukushima, unlike Chernobyl, has a containment structure, which, even if damaged, has meant that the Japanese accident has shown "much, much, much lower'' traces of far-flung radiation, Wolfgang Weiss, chair of the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation, said in Vienna last week.


The release from Fukushima of tens of thousands of terabecquerels of iodine-131, while huge, appears to be smaller than the 5.2 million terabecquerels released from Chernobyl. Japanese government officials said the radiation release was between 370,000 and 630,000 terabecquerels so far from Fukushima. The permissible level of iodine-131 for vegetables and fish is 2,000 becquerels per kilogram, or just a tiny fraction of what has been released.


A 2005 United Nations study said up to 4,000 people could eventually die from radiation exposure to Chernobyl.


In Japan, so far, a handful of workers have been hospitalized, but they were released a few days later, and regulators said they showed no signs of lasting injury.


There are, however, regular reports in the Japanese press of elevated radiation exposure for the workers trying to contain Fukushima, and it could be months, or years, before the real impact is known. The same is true for the population in and around the plant.


Officials said they expanded the original evacuation zone because the acccident had lasted longer than expected.



"Japan has been doing drills for possible nuclear accidents, but they assumed that the accidents would be resolved in about 10 days," said Mr. Nishiyama, the spokesman. "We are now dealing with a crisis of a historic proportion. This has necessitated different kinds of responses than initially planned."
http://m.wsj.net/video/20110411/041111asiatodayjapan/041111asiatodayjapan_512x288.jpg (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703841904576256742249147126.html#)
Japanese suppliers impacted by last month's quake are struggling to hang onto their business amid shortages of key components and electricity. Companies that rely on that hard-hit supply network are also rethinking their exposure to Japan.


On Edge | Worries over Fukushima Daiichi

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Even in announcing the expanded evacuation zone, Japanese officials said residents of the affected areas weren't in danger of surpassing government exposure limits anytime soon and that they have about a month to move.


Testing by Japanese, U.S. and IAEA officials shows that the radioactive contamination is spreading unevenly from the plant, creating what are known as hot spots due to wind, topography and other natural conditions that show a higher density of radioactive material compared with some areas closer to the plant.


The move will present major logistical hurdles for communities already battered by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami that damaged the plant as well as much of the surrounding countryside. The area includes towns and villages with a population totaling about 115,000 people before the crisis, though the number of people affected is likely to be far less because the government's order applies only to particular hot spots believed to have higher radiation levels, not a set radius from the plant.


Meanwhile, efforts to stabilize reactors at Fukushima Daiichi continue to be dogged by setbacks and scares, in a sign of how fragile the situation on the ground remains. On Tuesday morning, Tepco said there was a small fire at a battery unit outside reactor No. 4, which was put out shortly after being reported.


On Monday, a 7.1 magnitude quake centered in coastal Fukushima temporarily shut down power supply and makeshift cooling systems to three reactors at the plant, causing the evacuation of workers to the compound's command center. The systems remained down for nearly an hour while the evacuation remained in effect, keeping workers from switching to emergency power generators.



Tepco said the suspension didn't appear to have caused significant safety issues. But the scramble to restore power served as a reminder of how aftershocks and the risk of tsunami could upset the delicate efforts to stabilize the problems at the plant.

DaFace
04-11-2011, 10:43 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703841904576256742249147126.html

Japanese Declare Crisis at Level of Chernobyl

googlegoogle is vindicated!

veist
04-12-2011, 01:27 AM
Are the same suspects still freaking out about this? I wonder, are any of y'all that are freaking familiar at all with Radon?

MagicHef
04-12-2011, 02:08 AM
How have I never even heard of Kyshtym before? In terms of lives lost, it seems like it was worse than Chernobyl.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyshtym_disaster

notorious
04-12-2011, 07:05 AM
Pfft, nothing to see here.



Everything is just fine.




:facepalm:

loochy
04-12-2011, 09:02 AM
I think we all know what this radiation leak situation means.

Think about it for a second.

Japanese teenagers that like pizza: CHECK
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2009/12/pizzahut-japan-b53et.jpg


Excessive radiation: CHECK
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6933/ooze1.jpg


Country where ninjas originated: CHECK
http://amillionwindows.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/ninjas.jpg


Aquatic environment where turtles might live: CHECK
http://www.japanprobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/two-heads2.jpg



All of this sets the stage for a perfect storm that will create.......

http://asset-server.libsyn.com/item/1292136/assets/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1.jpg

Donger
04-12-2011, 10:00 AM
Meh. This incident has released only 10% of the radiation that Chernobyl did. No, it's not "fine" but let's let over-react.

MIAdragon
04-12-2011, 10:07 AM
googlegoogle is vindicated!

http://www.funkypancake.com/blog/stuff3/2006/04/andrew_DSC_0458-thumb.JPG

teedubya
04-15-2011, 10:07 PM
Three types of plutonium have turned up amid the radioactive contamination on the grounds of the earthquake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, its owner reported Monday.

The plutonium is a byproduct of nuclear reactions that is also part of the fuel mix at the damaged No. 3 reactor.

It was found in soil at five different points inside the plant grounds, the Tokyo Electric Power Company said late Monday.

Plutonium can be a serious health hazard if inhaled or ingested, but external exposure poses little health risk, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/28/3-types-of-plutonium-detected-at-japans-fukushima-daiichi-plant/

FAX
04-15-2011, 10:11 PM
Dear Sirs and Mesdames:

Your faces have turned into seething masses of oozing, green scales, but don't over-react.

Yours truly,

Mr. Donger.

FAX

veist
04-16-2011, 01:03 AM
Its a good thing they totally provided all those facts and figures with that report so it had context. I mean, otherwise it'd just be fearmongering and not reporting.

SNR
04-16-2011, 01:22 AM
Meh. This incident has released only 10% of the radiation that Chernobyl did. No, it's not "fine" but let's let over-reactor.FYP

Otter
04-16-2011, 02:39 AM
Ocean coming up

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0Di7vpM3TU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Otter
04-16-2011, 02:46 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hc8SjDLjdTU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Taco John
04-16-2011, 03:27 AM
I don't know why this would scare anybody off of putting nuclear power in someone else's back yard. I mean, I'd vote to keep it out of my back yard, but I have no problem with other states having it.

Bambi
04-16-2011, 03:37 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hc8SjDLjdTU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

check please!

teedubya
04-16-2011, 03:38 AM
Ocean coming up

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/u0Di7vpM3TU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You shut your mouth... NO WAY is Japan sinking. Donger laughed at me when I suggested such tomfoolery.

Donger
04-16-2011, 07:37 AM
You shut your mouth... NO WAY is Japan sinking. Donger laughed at me when I suggested such tomfoolery.

I still am.

Dave Lane
04-16-2011, 07:59 AM
Make it at least a chorus of two.

Tedubya though I'm sure you will neg rep me again, seriously learn some science before you tackle subjects that involve it. You can actually use google (and not googlegoogle) to find credible scientists that can explain in actual scientific terms what is happening. Till then its probably best to stick with who shot JFK, who blew up Tower 7 of the WTC and others and leave the sciencey stuff to like scientists.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-16-2011, 08:54 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hc8SjDLjdTU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That is just...wow.

veist
04-16-2011, 09:51 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hc8SjDLjdTU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Why is it so hard for people to the correct term, liquefaction? Sorry, I'm just being pedantic here.

teedubya
04-16-2011, 10:28 AM
Laugh and Mock all you want, I welcome it. I'm gonna keep spewing the truth as I see it... and as time goes by, it's looking like I am the one who is closer to the truth... sad but true. I care about humanity more than most people. Most people care about fiat $$$ and getting rich and saying **** you to everyone else. The world is run amok by greedy, selfish people.

Three Mile Island expert: Fukushima could kill 200,000
Interview: The worst is "probably" past, but there’s a one-in-four chance Fukushima could deteriorate. Here’s how.

In the days after Japan’s Fukushima nuclear accident began, GlobalPost turned to Arnold Gundersen for an independent view of whether the reactors might melt down. A 39-year veteran of the nuclear industry, Gundersen has worked as a nuclear plant operator and served as an expert witness on the Three Mile Island accident. He is now chief engineer at Fairwinds Associates.

Back then, Gundersen said that the evidence suggested the accident was worse than authorities were revealing. This week, his assessment was shown to be accurate when Japan upgraded Fukushima to a 7, the worst possible rating for a nuclear accident.

So we contacted Gundersen again to get an update on Fukushima. In the following edited and condensed interview, Gundersen gives his expert view of what might happen, how authorities are handling the accident, and how Fukushima will affect health and the environment.

GlobalPost: Last month, officials said that the possibility of a large scale radiation release from Fukushima was “small.” You disagreed. You told GlobalPost that there was a “50-50 chance of a catastrophic release.” Now, nearly every day we hear about new releases. Has this added up to a catastrophic release?

Arnold Gundersen: Yes, Fukushima has released catastrophic levels of radiation. There hasn’t been a single Chernobyl size blast, but there have been three explosions, as well as radioactive venting that will continue into the future. And there are still potential bumps in the road. It’s not over yet.

“Fukushima is going to kill 200,000 from increased cancers over the next 50 years.”
~Arnold Gundersen, nuclear expert

This week the Japanese authorities elevated the crisis from 5 to 7. That suggests it’s on a par with Chernobyl. Is this accident as bad as Chernobyl?

It’s worse than Chernobyl. That accident involved a single reactor. Fukushima involves three reactors. Additionally, there are several years worth of fuel in the spent fuel pools of units 1 through 4. Added together, that’s roughly the equivalent of eight reactor cores.

Right now, I don’t think any single reactor is as bad as Chernobyl, but they have essentially eight different problems.

The Japanese government has said that Fukushima has released about 10 percent as much radiation as Chernobyl. Do you think that’s accurate?

I’d say that’s the minimum that’s been released. It’s possible that the accident has released as much as Chernobyl already. If not, we’re heading in that direction. I think the Japanese have wanted to avoid instilling fear. So as a result they are more likely to downplay than exaggerate the releases.

Estimating radiation releases is never easy. I’ve studied both Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. The statistics on how much radiation was released were made after the accidents were over, by scientists who have skin in the game. During a nuclear accident, all of the radiation detectors are blown to smithereens, so you’re not actually measuring the contamination, you’re calculating them based on sampling. When you do that you can introduce bias.

So if it’s worse than Chernobyl, is this the worst industrial accident ever?

I think this and the Bhopal accident in India [where hundreds of thousands of people were exposed to the toxic gas methyl isocyanate, killing thousands] are going to be neck and neck for that category. So it’s worse than Chernobyl but in the same category as Bhopal. But certainly from a cost standpoint, this is the most expensive one ever.

I absolutely disagree with the scientists who say that Fukushima’s not going to hurt anyone. The numbers I’ve seen, from reputable scientists, are that Fukushima is going to kill 200,000 from increased cancers over the next 50 years.

Is the evacuation zone big enough?

It’s not a question of size, but of timing. I was saying that it should be 19 miles (30 kilometers) a month ago. They’re now extending it to 19 miles, but they’re giving people a month to leave.

If there’s any good news from Fukushima it’s that the wind was blowing offshore most of the time. If the wind was blowing onshore, Japan would be cut in half. There would be an uninhabitable zone going right across the island if the wind was blowing the other way.

Are international organizations effectively keeping an eye on this?

The International Atomic Energy Agency has been behind in its analysis since the very first week. They were saying that 5 percent of the fuel was damaged when I was saying 70 percent. I don’t have any faith that the IAEA data is accurate.

How does an independent expert such as yourself get data?

I’m working with an informal network of independent university professors around the world. I’m actually hoping to get more people providing information through this network.

My experience with Chernobyl and Three Mile Island is that the government and industry will circle the wagons and try to prevent information from accumulating in private hands. The same happened with France, which gets much of its electricity from nuclear. The government there downplayed Chernobyl releases.

The difference now is that we have the internet. Independent scientists can more readily share information quickly, and bureaucracies don’t know how to respond to that. So I’m hoping that this will prevent governments from distorting information. Yet I do believe that they are getting away with downplaying the crisis right now.

This crisis is now labeled a 7, the most severe possible nuclear accident. Does this accurately represent how bad the accident is, or if there were an 8 or 9, would you rate it worse?

It’s a 7 now. If you’re asking, does it have the potential to get worse? The answer is yes. Let me explain the biggest risks for the future.

In unit 1, there’s so much mud in the reactor that they can’t get water into the core, which they would normally need to do to prevent it from overheating and melting down. Instead, it appears that they are flooding it from the outside, and cooling it that way.

That’s working, except that the containment structure on unit 1 was not designed to handle all the excess weight from the water. If there’s an earthquake — not a magnitude 9 on the Richter scale, like the one that kicked off the accident, but one just over 7 — the containment could fail.

If that happens, unit 1 could become a Chernobyl on its own.

But my biggest fear right now is the unit 4 spent fuel pool — the area outside the containment where they store the degraded but still-radioactive fuel that they’re no longer using to power the reactor. That worries me a lot.

There was a report this week that they found iodine-131 in that fuel pool. Iodine-131 can only come from nuclear fission, and because it has a short life, it disappears after about 80 days.

In other words, the presence of iodine-131 suggests that the spent fuel has started its own chain reaction without any human intervention.

That tells me that the racks that have been distorted — by the earthquake, or by the crane that fell in, or by the heat that caused the first explosion.

You’re talking about the racks in the fuel pool that keep the spent fuel apart, preventing the chain reaction that normally goes on in the reactor. And you’re saying that these racks were apparently damaged, enabling the fuel to reach critical mass and re-start the chain reaction on their own, without controls?

Yes. As workers pour water into unit 4 — which they need to do to keep it cool — they might essentially be creating a nuclear reactor, without control rods used to shut down the reaction, and without a containment building to keep the radiation in.

So unit 4 is still a significant risk. The fuel could get hot enough from the chain reaction that it will boil the water out again. So we could still get a fuel pool fire. That would volatilize some really heavy elements, sending some highly carcinogenic materials into the atmosphere. This should be a very big concern.

And that’s not the only problem. Another concern is that as a result of the accident, the building housing unit 4 is very weak structurally. They’re going to have to shore it up somehow from below so it can handle all the extra weight. Right now there’s little or no water in the fuel pool. They need to add water to keep the fuel cool. The pool has a crack in it, so it’s not clear that they can fill it with water. If they do, they will add so much weight that if there’s another seismic event it could cause the building to break, which would not be good.

How likely is it that the accident will get worse?

My read is that the accident could get worse if an earthquake impacts unit 1, or if unit 4’s spent fuel starts a nuclear reaction without any human intervention. Both of those are maybe a 10 or 20 percent probability.

So there’s about a 70 percent chance that the worst is behind us, and a 30 percent chance that things could still get worse.

There are a lot of balls in the air. As Dave Lochbaum from the Union of Concerned Scientists says, "Even the best juggler in the world can have too many balls in the air. They have a lot of critical things in the air, and one wrong move could make the situation much, much worse."

What about the risks to units 2 and 3?

In unit 2, they’re pouring water in the top to cool the fuel. Nuclear reactors are usually cooled using a closed system, in which cooling water circulates through the fuel rods. When the water gets hot, it is cooled via a heat exchanger and re-used in the reactor. Because it never leaves the reactor the radiation stays inside.

But the water they’re pouring into the top of unit 2 is flowing out the bottom because the containment is leaking. So unit 2 is the biggest polluter of the Pacific. It’s going to constantly pour out water at a terrible level but it’s stable. I don’t think it’s going to get worse.

What about unit 3?

Unit 3 is the one that looks the worst, with the most rubble. But the reactor is actually the closest to being cool. It’s almost at boiling, 200 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than any of the other units.

That said, the spent fuel pool on unit 3 looks from all the pictures to be partially obliterated. And it’s the most highly contaminated because of the explosion. The damage to this facility tells me that the fuel has been scattered, and will be hard to reconstitute.

Do you think TEPCO and the Japanese authorities are doing a good job handling the crisis, and communicating the risks?

No. I think they’re doing a better job now than they were at first. But I don’t think they’re doing a good job. Part of the problem for at least the first three weeks was that the data was so poor. You can’t make good decisions based on bad data. I think that affected some decisions that were made poorly.

Things are better now as far as getting control, but I don’t think they’re really conveying the risks to the public.

Let's talk about the impact on people. What does this mean for Japan? When will people be able to go back to their homes?

Within six miles, I don’t think they’re going back within a generation. There will be so much contamination and it will take too long to clean. They’ve already found plutonium in the form of fuel rods off of the nuclear plant site.

There are also indications that some areas 25 miles away have cesium concentrations higher than Chernobyl. You’re going to be monitoring dairy and beef cattle for years.

How will this affect the ocean? And how will it affect fish?

Here’s how it works: The cesium settles on the seafloor. That gets absorbed by aquatic plants, seaweed and other life. The bottom feeders eat that, and other animals eat them, and it works its way up the food chain. Eventually, it will make it into the larger fish that we and the Japanese eat — the tuna and the salmon, for example.

You’ll be monitoring fish, I think, for decades.

Will that be limited to Japan?

I think most of the contamination will be localized to within 100 miles of the plant. The problem is that fish swim. The bigger fish swim longer distances, and now of course they’re flown around the world for eating. It’s too early for that contamination to show up in these predators. It has to work its way up the food chain. You’re probably safe to eat fish in Tokyo now. I’d worry about it more in three or four months than I do now. They’ll have to monitor fish markets by sampling the meat and putting it in a detector to see if it’s contaminated.

That said, they’ve already found contamination in small fish 35 miles south of the plant.

Is it likely that the levels of contamination will be harmful for human consumption?

Yes. Here’s an example: Chernobyl wafted cesium 137 into Germany. We’re talking about more than 300 miles. Even now, 25 years later, the wild boar that eat the mushrooms on the soil that’s absorbed the cesium 137, can’t be eaten.

When hunters capture a wild boar, they give it to a state lab to determine whether it’s clean. One-third of the wild boars are contaminated. So with that as an example on an airborne release, I can’t imagine that a waterborne release will be any different.

What about the many products that are manufactured in Japan and transported around the world? Are they safe?

Aside from food, I wouldn’t worry about Toyotas or silicon chips for computers or other industrial products. They’ll be fine.

Will there be health impacts in North America? What are you doing to protect yourself?

I bought Iodine pills, but I’m not using them. I don’t think the radioactive iodine releases in New England, where I live, are going to be significant enough to worry about. I haven’t looked at California or Alaska or other West Coast data.

After our last interview, you were criticized as an alarmist by people ranging from a Vermont state senator to Rush Limbaugh. Now that the crisis has been elevated to a 7, the maximum level, how would you respond to them?

I was really being objective. I think that rather than me being an alarmist, they were being apologists. The record has shown that the alarmists were right and the apologists were wrong.

Some commentators are saying that even with the Fukushima accident, nuclear power is far safer than coal, which kills thousands of people each year from mining accidents, pollution-related lung cancers and the like. Do you agree with this?

Coal kills a lot of people, there’s no doubt about it. But it’s a false alternative to say we need more nukes because coal kills more people.

I think we need to reconsider the central power station paradigm — where big power plants provide electricity to a large area. Whether it’s coal or nuclear, that was right for the 20th century. It’s wrong for the 21st century.

My thought is that we shouldn’t shut nuclear reactors down immediately because they’re killing people in Japan. You simply can’t do that. Instead, Fukushima forces us to look at this paradigm of putting enormous amounts of money into one plant. The Votgle plants in Georgia — two of them will be pushing $20 billion. I think our money would be better spent distributing the grid.

With the advent of smart grids and distributed transmission of electricity and power sources like a 2 megawatt windmill or a gas-powered “bloom box” fuel cell that generates electricity very efficiently, I think that by 2040 we’ll be a distributed energy network. New nukes are like the Maginot line of electricity. By building them, we’ll be trying to solve a problem that technology has already surpassed, the way the French built the Maginot line tried to prevent the Germans from invading. Instead, they just went around.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/japan/110415/fukushima-death-toll-meltdown-chernobyl?page=full

Donger
04-16-2011, 10:32 AM
LMAO

Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined killed 200,000. Those were atomic bomb detonations, BTW.

Dave Lane
04-16-2011, 01:21 PM
I fully agree with his conclusion that 200,000 people will die within a 50 mile radius of the plant in the next 50 years.

Donger
04-16-2011, 01:36 PM
I fully agree with his conclusion that 200,000 people will die within a 50 mile radius of the plant in the next 50 years.

"They" are sucking you in. Beware.

Dave Lane
04-16-2011, 01:49 PM
"They" are sucking you in. Beware.

You disagree?

Dave Lane
04-16-2011, 01:50 PM
hehe

DaFace
04-16-2011, 01:51 PM
I fully agree with his conclusion that 200,000 people will die within a 50 mile radius of the plant in the next 50 years.

I see what you did there.

Donger
04-16-2011, 01:58 PM
You disagree?

LMAO

No, I knew what you were doing/saying.

notorious
04-16-2011, 02:48 PM
I fully agree with his conclusion that 200,000 people will die within a 50 mile radius of the plant in the next 50 years.

LOL


That is awesome. :D

veist
04-16-2011, 05:23 PM
Man, tdub just continually hits new lows in here. And good one Dave, lol.

FAX
04-16-2011, 05:39 PM
No need to over-react. Just because the wart on your butt has begun demanding its own hat and your genitals have turned to ash.

Besides, Japs, there's good news. Your sushi no longer requires hot sauce because it's steaming when it comes out of the net.

FAX

Dave Lane
04-16-2011, 06:59 PM
Fax, they will be able to cut way back on washabi sauce and that has to be a plus.

notorious
04-16-2011, 07:01 PM
Fax, they will be able to cut way back on washabi sauce and that has to be a plus.

This.


Washabi sucks.

teedubya
04-17-2011, 01:40 AM
I fully agree with his conclusion that 200,000 people will die within a 50 mile radius of the plant in the next 50 years.

Dude, that is hilarious. Well played. Those numbers seem pretty underwhelming. lol.

teedubya
05-09-2011, 12:55 AM
Still spewing smoke and radiation... and getting worse. Just because the media isn't talking about this, doesn't mean it's going away folks.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab2/Barich1979/zk9fe.jpg

That there was a large column of black smoke seen billowing from Reactor 4(images 1 and 2 on the right). The smoke blanketed the plant and was the most significant release since the "hydrogen explosions", but what did we witness.

We witnessed a Spent Nuclear Fuel Fire last night. This was a worst case scenario for TEPCO and the Japanese Government.

"If the water evaporates and the rods run dry, they could overheat and catch fire, potentially spreading radioactive materials in dangerous clouds."

If any of the spent fuel rods in the pools do indeed catch fire, nuclear experts say, the high heat would loft the radiation in clouds that would spread the radioactivity.

“It’s worse than a meltdown,” said David A. Lochbaum, a nuclear engineer at the Union of Concerned Scientists who worked as an instructor on the kinds of General Electric reactors used in Japan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16fuel.html?_r=1

The Japanese government knew this was coming and gave fore warning.

http://enenews.com/email-from-japanese-govt-officials-says-high-density-radiation-will-be-released-on-may-8-if-current-situation-continues

Obviously May 8th came and went and the situation was not under control so we can only assume the worst has happened.

Live feed went down last night and then came back up. Would the Japanese Government and TEPCO have the ability to cut and loop a feed??

Last week a high ranking Japanese official resigned from office and cried on air. He said he was lying to the public and he could not take anymore.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/world/asia/01japan.html?_r=3&hp

I am under the assumption that the Japanese Government and TEPCO lost control of the situation a long time ago, the only question is how bad this thing is gonna get...

Check out the waves of Cesium 137 coming over... it's redonkulous.

http://db.eurad.uni-koeln.de/prognose/data/alert/ddcs_hem_1h_movtotal_1.gif

http://www.eurad.uni-koeln.de/index_e.html

even though it's not on FOX News or CNN, We ain't out of the woods, yet....

Donger
05-09-2011, 07:41 AM
Still spewing smoke and radiation... and getting worse.

No, it's not getting worse.

Sorry this one didn't pan out for you. Maybe next time.

How is the New Madrid Megaquake going? Still on schedule?

BigMeatballDave
05-09-2011, 08:42 AM
If I were a Mod, I would change teedubya's name to Chicken Little.

Dave Lane
05-09-2011, 08:53 AM
If I were a Mod, I would change teedubya's name to Chicken Little.

REPOST

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=7492987#post7492987

:)

BigMeatballDave
05-09-2011, 09:09 AM
REPOST

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=7492987#post7492987

:):LOL:

teedubya
05-09-2011, 02:54 PM
No, it's not getting worse.

Sorry this one didn't pan out for you. Maybe next time.

How is the New Madrid Megaquake going? Still on schedule?

It's not getting worse? Are you kidding me? The amount of radioactive Iodine, Ceisum-137, Strontium, Tritium and other Shitium going up in the jetstream is unreal.

Not to mention the MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of gallons of radiative water flowing into the ocean.

Just because it's not on mainstream news, doesn't mean it's not bad. In fact, they aren't saying shit so as to not scare people. They've taken the radiation monitoring stations offline... and they aren't reporting ANYTHING.

Donger
05-09-2011, 06:38 PM
It's not getting worse? Are you kidding me? The amount of radioactive Iodine, Ceisum-137, Strontium, Tritium and other Shitium going up in the jetstream is unreal.

Not to mention the MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of gallons of radiative water flowing into the ocean.

Just because it's not on mainstream news, doesn't mean it's not bad. In fact, they aren't saying shit so as to not scare people. They've taken the radiation monitoring stations offline... and they aren't reporting ANYTHING.

No, I'm not kidding you. Please explain how things have gotten worse than they were.

Are you aware that they haven't released any additional water into the Pacific?

Donger
05-09-2011, 06:51 PM
And, teedubya, if you have something to say to me, please do it here.

Bwana
05-13-2011, 06:56 AM
More information starting to come out on this.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-12/japan-suffers-setback-at-fukushima-after-no-1-reactor-s-fuel-rods-exposed.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8509502/Nuclear-meltdown-at-Fukushima-plant.html

Saulbadguy
05-13-2011, 07:03 AM
And, teedubya, if you have something to say to me, please do it here.

Getting harassed via PM/negative rep too, huh?

Dave Lane
05-13-2011, 08:08 AM
“What this means is this is probably going to be a much more difficult cleanup than they originally planned for,”


More information starting to come out on this.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-12/japan-suffers-setback-at-fukushima-after-no-1-reactor-s-fuel-rods-exposed.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8509502/Nuclear-meltdown-at-Fukushima-plant.html

DaFace
05-13-2011, 08:50 AM
Getting harassed via PM/negative rep too, huh?

Heh...I got negged for calling him a caricature. I thought I was special. :sulk:

Donger
05-13-2011, 08:52 AM
Getting harassed via PM/negative rep too, huh?

I guess the lack of a body count is really starting to bother him, yes.

Pants
05-13-2011, 08:55 AM
Is this were the victims of teedub's harassment are supposed to come? Hi, I'm pants.

Donger
05-13-2011, 08:56 AM
“What this means is this is probably going to be a much more difficult cleanup than they originally planned for,”

Yeah, I don't see anything there that wasn't presumed to have happened (e.g., a partial melt).

teedubya
05-15-2011, 12:02 PM
Whew. Everything is all better. Fox News says so.

Oh wait...

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/science/news/20110514-OYT1T00768.htm?from=main1

TEPCO 14 unveiled a new image inside the reactor building of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 1 was taken by remote-controlled robots and workers.

 Been published, and was taken near the southeast side of double doors on 13 remote-controlled robot, such as the northwest elevator hall 09 workers were taken, the image of five locations.

 The southwest building "transfer port big" around the scattered debris of the large expected impact of hydrogen explosion, near the elevator hall of the northwest, 吹Ki飛Bi the elevator door to further shape the elevator shaft like a tunnel square that the state is reflected.

 Double doors near the southeast entrance of the robot, a high dose was recorded 2000 mm per hour Sv radiation measurements, the scattering state is not reflected in particular. TEPCO is the result of high concentrations of polluted water flowed in the pipe near this location are expected to record high doses.

( 12:22 minutes May 14, 2011 Yomiuri Shimbun)

That's 2 SV an hour, folks.

teedubya
05-15-2011, 12:09 PM
Yeah, Harassed, by ONE neg rep each. heh. Pussies. Donger got it twice though. I think I will harass him, since he is crying about it.

Not a patented SaulBadGuy harassment by any means.

EDIT: now you've all gotten it twice. I'm an equal opportunity offender.

teedubya
05-15-2011, 12:12 PM
More information starting to come out on this.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-12/japan-suffers-setback-at-fukushima-after-no-1-reactor-s-fuel-rods-exposed.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8509502/Nuclear-meltdown-at-Fukushima-plant.html

It's always been this bad, but they've just been under reporting it.

Donger
05-15-2011, 01:40 PM
Yeah, Harassed, by ONE neg rep each. heh. Pussies. Donger got it twice though. I think I will harass him, since he is crying about it.

Not a patented SaulBadGuy harassment by any means.

EDIT: now you've all gotten it twice. I'm an equal opportunity offender.

I'm merely saying that if you have something to say to me, say it here. I don't really have any desire to have a private conversation with you.

Donger
05-15-2011, 01:41 PM
It's always been this bad, but they've just been under reporting it.

No, they haven't. A partial melt was always presumed. That's what happens when the cores are exposed.

Donger
05-15-2011, 01:45 PM
[url]http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/science/news/20110514-OYT1T00768.htm?from=main1

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703509104576325110776621604.html

Two Other Reactors Suffer Serious Damage

TOKYO—Substantial damage to the fuel cores at two additional reactors of Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex has taken place, operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Sunday, further complicating the already daunting task of bringing them to a safe shutdown while avoiding the release of high levels of radioactivity. The revelation followed an acknowledgment on Thursday that a similar meltdown of the core took place at unit No. 1.

Workers also found that the No. 1 unit's reactor building is flooded in the basement, reinforcing the suspicion that the containment vessel is damaged and leaking highly radioactive water.

The revelations are likely to force an overhaul of the six- to nine-month blueprint for bringing the reactors to a safe shutdown stage and end the release of radioactive materials. The original plan, announced in mid-April, was due to be revised May 17.

The operator, known as Tepco, said the No. 1 unit lost its reactor core 16 hours after the plant was struck by a magnitude-9 earthquake and a giant tsunami on the afternoon of March 11.

The pressure vessel a cylindrical steel container that holds nuclear fuel, "is likely to be damaged and leaking water at units Nos. 2 and 3," said Junichi Matsumoto, Tepco spokesman on nuclear issues, in a news briefing Sunday.

He also said there could be far less cooling water in the pressure vessels of Nos. 2 and 3, indicating there are holes at the bottom of these vessels, with thousands of tons of water pumped into these reactors mostly leaking out.

Tepco found the basement of the unit No. 1 reactor building flooded with 4.2 meters of water. It isn't clear where the water came from, but leaks are suspected in pipes running in and out of the containment vessel, a beaker-shaped steel structure that holds the pressure vessel.

The water flooding the basement is believed to be highly radioactive. Workers were unable to observe the flooding situation because of strong radiation coming out of the water, Tepco said.

A survey conducted by an unmanned robot Friday found radiation levels of 1,000 to 2,000 millisieverts per hour in some parts of the ground level of unit No. 1, a level that would be highly dangerous for any worker nearby. Japan has placed an annual allowable dosage limit of 250 millisieverts for workers.

The high level of radioactivity means even more challenges for Tepco's bid to set up a continuous cooling system that won't threaten radiation leaks into the environment.

Tepco separately released its analysis on the timeline of the meltdown at unit No. 1. According to the analysis, the reactor core, or the nuclear fuel, was exposed to the air within five hours after the plant was struck by the earthquake. The temperature inside the core reached 2,800 degrees Celsius in six hours, causing the fuel pellets to melt away rapidly.

Within 16 hours, the reactor core melted, dropped to the bottom of the pressure vessel and created a hole there. By then, an operation to pump water into the reactor was under way. This prevented the worst-case scenario, in which the overheating fuel would melt its way through the vessels and discharge large volumes of radiation outside.

The nuclear industry lacks a technical definition for a full meltdown, but the term is generally understood to mean that radioactive fuel has breached containment measures, resulting in a massive release of fuel.

"Without the injection of water [by fire trucks], a more disastrous event could have ensued," said Mr. Matsumoto.

Tepco also released its analysis of a hydrogen explosion that occurred at unit No. 4, despite the fact that the unit was in maintenance and that nuclear fuel stored in the storage pool was largely intact.

According to Tepco, hyrogen produced in the overheating of the reactor core at unit 3 flowed through a gas-treatment line and entered unit No. 4 because of a breakdown of valves. Hydrogen leaked from ducts in the second, third and fourth floors of the reactor building at unit No. 4 and ignited a massive explosion.

Dave Lane
05-15-2011, 01:46 PM
So the point is that there remains some radioactivity in the building after there was a radioactive water spill. Thats unexpected.

Oh and I got my two quite early in the thread but while I'm with Donger and prefer to speak my mind here, have at it if you feel it necessary.

Donger
05-15-2011, 01:49 PM
So the point is that there remains some radioactivity in the building after there was a radioactive water spill. Thats unexpected.

Oh and I got my two quite early in the thread but while I'm with Donger and prefer to speak my mind here, have at it if you feel it necessary.

Well, it seems like TEPCO is now presuming that at least one of the reactors sustained a vessel breach. That's never a good thing, but at least they prevented a full melt.

Dave Lane
05-15-2011, 02:14 PM
Well, it seems like TEPCO is now presuming that at least one of the reactors sustained a vessel breach. That's never a good thing, but at least they prevented a full melt.

No a vessel breach in conjunction with a full meltdown would be really bad. Major cleanup issues. Probably have to seal it in concrete for awhile.

Saulbadguy
05-15-2011, 02:15 PM
Yeah, Harassed, by ONE neg rep each. heh. Pussies. Donger got it twice though. I think I will harass him, since he is crying about it.

Not a patented SaulBadGuy harassment by any means.

EDIT: now you've all gotten it twice. I'm an equal opportunity offender.

My victims can attest to the fact that I leave my negative reps blank, or put nonsensical things in them - like "poopburgers".

teedubya
05-17-2011, 02:18 PM
TEPCO admits nuclear meltdown occurred at Fukushima reactor 16 hours after quake

Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) admitted for the first time on May 15 that most of the fuel in one of its nuclear reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant had melted only about 16 hours after the March 11 earthquake struck a wide swath of northeastern Japan and triggered a devastating tsunami.

According to TEPCO, the operator of the crippled nuclear power plant, the emergency condenser designed to cool the steam inside the pressure vessel of the No. 1 reactor was working properly shortly after the magnitude-9.0 earthquake, but it lost its functions around 3:30 p.m. on March 11 when tsunami waves hit the reactor.

Based on provisional analysis of data on the reactor, the utility concluded that the water level in the pressure vessel began to drop rapidly immediately after the tsunami, and the top of the fuel began to be exposed above the water around 6 p.m. Around 7:30 p.m., the fuel was fully exposed above the water surface and overheated for more than 10 hours. At about 9 p.m., the temperature in the reactor core rose to 2,800 degrees Celsius, the melting point for fuel. At approximately 7:50 p.m., the upper part of the fuel started melting, and at around 6:50 a.m. on March 12, a meltdown occurred.

On the reason why it took over two months after the earthquake to reveal the information, TEPCO said it had only been able to start obtaining detailed data on the temperature and pressure in the reactor for analysis in early May.

Junichiro Matsumoto, a senior TEPCO official, said, "Because there is similar damage to the fuel rods at the No. 2 and 3 reactors, the bottoms of their pressure vessels could also have been damaged." He said the utility would carry out similar analysis on the two reactors.

Hiroaki Koide, professor of nuclear safety engineering at Kyoto University, was critical of TEPCO.

"They could have assumed that when the loss of power made it impossible to cool down the reactor, it would soon lead to a meltdown of the core. TEPCO's persistent explanation that the damage to the fuel had been limited turned out to be wrong," he said.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110516p2a00m0na028000c.html

Donger
05-17-2011, 02:22 PM
"They could have assumed that when the loss of power made it impossible to cool down the reactor, it would soon lead to a meltdown of the core. TEPCO's persistent explanation that the damage to the fuel had been limited turned out to be wrong," he said.

Unless I missed something, a partial melt was assumed by everyone who knows what they are talking about.

veist
05-19-2011, 11:31 AM
Whew. Everything is all better. Fox News says so.

Oh wait...

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/science/news/20110514-OYT1T00768.htm?from=main1

TEPCO 14 unveiled a new image inside the reactor building of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 1 was taken by remote-controlled robots and workers.

 Been published, and was taken near the southeast side of double doors on 13 remote-controlled robot, such as the northwest elevator hall 09 workers were taken, the image of five locations.

 The southwest building "transfer port big" around the scattered debris of the large expected impact of hydrogen explosion, near the elevator hall of the northwest, 吹Ki飛Bi the elevator door to further shape the elevator shaft like a tunnel square that the state is reflected.

 Double doors near the southeast entrance of the robot, a high dose was recorded 2000 mm per hour Sv radiation measurements, the scattering state is not reflected in particular. TEPCO is the result of high concentrations of polluted water flowed in the pipe near this location are expected to record high doses.

( 12:22 minutes May 14, 2011 Yomiuri Shimbun)

That's 2 SV an hour, folks.

Can you at least come up with a source that isn't bad machine translation that leaves some serious ambiguity as to what is trying to be conveyed?

Donger
05-19-2011, 11:32 AM
Can you at least come up with a source that isn't bad machine translation that leaves some serious ambiguity as to what is trying to be conveyed?

LMAO

loochy
05-19-2011, 11:33 AM
TEPCO admits nuclear meltdown occurred at Fukushima reactor 16 hours after quake

Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) admitted for the first time on May 15 that most of the fuel in one of its nuclear reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant had melted only about 16 hours after the March 11 earthquake struck a wide swath of northeastern Japan and triggered a devastating tsunami.

According to TEPCO, the operator of the crippled nuclear power plant, the emergency condenser designed to cool the steam inside the pressure vessel of the No. 1 reactor was working properly shortly after the magnitude-9.0 earthquake, but it lost its functions around 3:30 p.m. on March 11 when tsunami waves hit the reactor.

Based on provisional analysis of data on the reactor, the utility concluded that the water level in the pressure vessel began to drop rapidly immediately after the tsunami, and the top of the fuel began to be exposed above the water around 6 p.m. Around 7:30 p.m., the fuel was fully exposed above the water surface and overheated for more than 10 hours. At about 9 p.m., the temperature in the reactor core rose to 2,800 degrees Celsius, the melting point for fuel. At approximately 7:50 p.m., the upper part of the fuel started melting, and at around 6:50 a.m. on March 12, a meltdown occurred.

On the reason why it took over two months after the earthquake to reveal the information, TEPCO said it had only been able to start obtaining detailed data on the temperature and pressure in the reactor for analysis in early May.

Junichiro Matsumoto, a senior TEPCO official, said, "Because there is similar damage to the fuel rods at the No. 2 and 3 reactors, the bottoms of their pressure vessels could also have been damaged." He said the utility would carry out similar analysis on the two reactors.

Hiroaki Koide, professor of nuclear safety engineering at Kyoto University, was critical of TEPCO.

"They could have assumed that when the loss of power made it impossible to cool down the reactor, it would soon lead to a meltdown of the core. TEPCO's persistent explanation that the damage to the fuel had been limited turned out to be wrong," he said.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110516p2a00m0na028000c.html

Just stick to posting pictures of Eva Longoria bending over. :thumb:

Dartgod
05-19-2011, 11:44 AM
REPOST

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=7492987#post7492987

:)
Re-Repost

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7483140&postcount=398

Donger
05-24-2011, 09:03 AM
Update:

1. Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant Status

Tables 1 - 4 track progress made for each of Units 1 - 4 towards fulfilling the three basic safety functions of the IAEA safety standards: prevention of criticality, removal of decay heat and mitigation of radioactive releases. The tables replace the three-colour table that was used previously. The charts are cross-referenced to the Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) "Roadmap" plan to bring the nuclear reactors and the spent fuel pools at the Fukushima Daiichi plant to a stable cooling condition and to mitigate radioactive releases.

On 17 May 2011, TEPCO provided a status report against the TEPCO "Roadmap". Progress has been made during the last month since the issuing of the Roadmap on 17 April 2011. While the basic policy and targets defined in the Roadmap remain, several changes were made to account for new information obtained and progress made to date.

On 13 May TEPCO commenced the preparatory work for the installation of a cover for the reactor building of Unit 1. The reactor building cover will be installed as an emergency measure to prevent the dispersion of radioactive substances until mid- to long term measures, including radiation shielding, are implemented.

TEPCO has reported that information obtained after calibration of the reactor water level gauges of Unit 1 shows that the actual water level in the Unit 1 reactor pressure vessel was lower than was indicated, showing that the fuel was completely uncovered. The results of provisional analysis show that fuel pellets melted and fell to the bottom of reactor pressure vessel at a relatively early stage in the accident.

TEPCO reported that "most part of the fuel is considered to be submerged in the bottom of reactor pressure vessel and some part exposed." TEPCO also reported that leakage of cooling water from the reactor pressure vessel is likely to have occurred. However, TEPCO considers that the actual damage to the reactor pressure vessel is limited, on the basis of the temperatures now being measured around the reactor pressure vessel.

With regard to the status of the reactor core of Unit 1, TEPCO believes that because the fuel has been being cooled continuously by means of water injection, it is unlikely that the situation could result in a future release of large amounts of radioactive material.

The results of the analysis are provisional; TEPCO will continue to conduct investigations. Similar analyses will be conducted for Units 2 and 3.

Nitrogen gas is still being injected into the containment vessel in Unit 1 to reduce the possibility of hydrogen combustion inside the containment vessel.

In Units 1, 2 and 3 fresh water is being continuously injected into the reactor pressure vessel; temperatures and pressures remain stable.

To protect against potential damage as a result of future earthquakes, TEPCO started work on 9 May to install a supporting structure for the floor of the spent fuel pool of Unit 4.

Fresh water is being injected as necessary into the spent fuel pools of Units 1 - 4.

Stagnant water with high levels of radioactivity in the basement of the turbine buildings of Units 1, 2 and 3 is being transferred to the condensers, the radioactive waste treatment facility, the high-temperature incinerator building and temporary storage tanks. Stagnant water in the basement of the turbine building of Unit 6 is being transferred to a temporary tank. Countermeasures against the outflow of water to the sea and to prevent and minimize the dispersion of radionuclides in water have been put in place.

Full-scale spraying of anti-scattering agent is continuing at the site with the use of both conventional and remote controlled equipment.

Donger
05-25-2011, 06:58 AM
Tokyo, Japan (CNN) -- Two of the damaged reactors at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan may be riddled with holes, according to the facility's owner.

The holes may be as big as 7 to 10 centimeters ( 2.8- 3.9 inches), Tokyo Electric Power Co. said in a 225-page document submitted to Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.

In the report, Tokyo Electric says the containment vessel of reactor No. 1 may have developed a hole as big as 3 centimeters in diameter 18 hours after the quake.

Fifty hours after the quake, the hole may have widened to 7 centimeters, the report said.

In reactor No. 2, the containment vessel may have developed a hole as wide as 10 centimeters 21 hours after the quake.

The nuclear plant has suffered cooling problems and radiation leaks since a March 11 earthquake and tsunami.

The hydrogen explosion four days after the crisis began may have led to the formation of a second hole in reactor No. 2, as wide as 10 centimeters in diameter.

"This report is not conclusive. No one has entered these areas and we cannot confirm this as fact," TEPCO said, adding that the report is making preliminary assumptions about what happened inside the reactors.

A hole in the reactor's containment vessel means there is a high probability of the leakage of radioactive material into the reactor building.

The amount of radioactive material in all three of the reactor buildings has hampered TEPCO's ability to build an effective cooling system. TEPCO says a cooling system is a critical step to leading to a cold shutdown, still estimated to be five to eight months away.

Nuclear experts and scientists have long suspected this sort of damage to the containers of the reactors at the crippled plant, as well as a full meltdown of the fuel rods in reactors 1, 2 and 3.

Donger
06-07-2011, 09:51 AM
3 nuclear reactors melted down after quake, Japan confirms

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/06/japan.nuclear.meltdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Tokyo (CNN) -- Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant experienced full meltdowns at three reactors in the wake of an earthquake and tsunami in March, the country's Nuclear Emergency Response Headquarters said Monday.

The nuclear group's new evaluation, released Monday, goes further than previous statements in describing the extent of the damage caused by an earthquake and tsunami on March 11.

The announcement will not change plans for how to stabilize the Fukushima Daiichi plant, the agency said.

Reactors 1, 2 and 3 experienced a full meltdown, it said.

The plant's owner, Tokyo Electric Power Co., admitted last month that nuclear fuel rods in reactors 2 and 3 probably melted during the first week of the nuclear crisis.

It had already said fuel rods at the heart of reactor No. 1 melted almost completely in the first 16 hours after the disaster struck. The remnants of that core are now sitting in the bottom of the reactor pressure vessel at the heart of the unit and that vessel is now believed to be leaking.

A "major part" of the fuel rods in reactor No. 2 may have melted and fallen to the bottom of the pressure vessel 101 hours after the earthquake and tsunami that crippled the plant, Tokyo Electric said May 24.

The same thing happened within the first 60 hours at reactor No. 3, the company said, in what it called its worst-case scenario analysis, saying the fuel would be sitting at the bottom of the pressure vessel in each reactor building.

But Tokyo Electric at the same time released a second possible scenario for reactors 2 and 3, one that estimated a full meltdown did not occur. In that scenario, the company estimated the fuel rods may have broken but may not have completely melted.

Temperature data showed the two reactors had cooled substantially in the more than two months since the incident, Tokyo Electric said in May.

The earthquake and tsunami knocked out cooling systems at Fukushima Daiichi, causing the three operating reactors to overheat. That compounded a natural disaster by spewing radioactive material into the atmosphere.

Tokyo Electric avoided using the term "meltdown," and says it was keeping the remnants of the core cool. But U.S. experts interviewed by CNN after the company's announcement in May said that while it may have been containing the situation, the damage had already been done.

"On the basis of what they showed, if there's not fuel left in the core, I don't know what it is other than a complete meltdown," said Gary Was, a University of Michigan nuclear engineering professor and CNN consultant. And given the damage reported at the other units, "It's hard to imagine the scenarios can differ that much for those reactors."

A massive hydrogen explosion -- a symptom of the reactor's overheating -- blew the roof off the No. 1 unit the day after the earthquake, and another hydrogen blast ripped apart the No. 3 reactor building two days later. A suspected hydrogen detonation within the No. 2 reactor is believed to have damaged that unit on March 15.

loochy
06-07-2011, 09:53 AM
Uhm so why are we all still alive then?

Donger
06-07-2011, 09:57 AM
Uhm so why are we all still alive then?

Definitions vary on what a "full meltdown" is. Some folks will only use that term when the PV is ripped apart (e.g., Chernobyl). Others will use it when the core fully melts and plops down inside the PV, without a massive breach. This is the latter.

loochy
06-07-2011, 09:58 AM
Definitions vary on what a "full meltdown" is. Some folks will only use that term when the PV is ripped apart (e.g., Chernobyl). Others will use it when the core fully melts and plops down inside the PV, without a massive breach. This is the latter.

*Sigh* I know that.

I was trying to be like googlegoogle.

Donger
06-07-2011, 09:59 AM
*Sigh* I know that.

I was trying to be like googlegoogle.

Oh. Sorry.

LMAO

Donger
06-13-2011, 11:35 AM
High Level of Toxins in Water at Japan Plant Raises Risks

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303714704576383434056677892.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

TOKYO—Excessive levels of highly toxic strontium have been detected in seawater and groundwater at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex, the plant operator said Monday, a development that suggests an increased risk of radioactive contamination further entering the food chain.

Also underscoring the difficulties of trying to stabilize the stricken facility, operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said six more workers have received more than the permitted annual emergency levels of radiation exposure.

The Strontium-89 and Strontium-90 isotopes are believed to have been released from the damaged reactors when the fuel cores overheated and melted after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, Tokyo Electric, also known Tepco, said at a briefing. In all, the amount of contaminated water now flooding the basements and the connected trenches of the plant's reactor buildings is estimated at more than 100,000 tons.

Environmental experts said the discovery of the strontium heightens the risk of contaminated seafood in the area, now complicated by the arrival of seasonally heavy rains.

"With the arrival of the rainy season, more and more radioactive fallout is being washed into groundwater and the sea, raising the levels of strontium contamination," said Ikuro Anzai, professor emeritus at Ritsumeikan University.

Strontium acts like calcium and accumulates in bones. Unlike other radioactive materials, such as cesium and iodine, strontium doesn't emit powerful gamma rays, and therefore, its harmful effects are limited unless it is ingested or inhaled. But once inside the body, it can cause bone cancer or leukemia.

"Japanese people often eat small fish, such as sardines, whole, including the bones and head. There is therefore a risk of consumers taking in strontium from contaminated small fish," Prof. Anzai said.

The government already has undertaken a program of testing of seafood in the nearby area and didn't announce any additional measures because of the latest disclosure. Prof. Anzai said there should be close monitoring for potential contamination because there is a risk of the radiation spreading through the food chain.

The six workers were found to have been exposed to more than the annual limit of 250 millisieverts now set for an emergency situation, during continuing check-ups on an estimated 3,700 staff who have worked at the plant during the crisis. Tepco said the six are likely to have been exposed to radiation from 265 to 498 millisieverts, according to preliminary results.

Two male workers were previously confirmed to have exceeded the annual limit, according to Tepco, while two women workers were found to have exceeded the limit of 5 millisieverts set for females in any three-month period. The discoveries come from the testing of all workers at the site. Of the staff, 2,400 have so far gone through check-ups for internal radiation.

Tepco continues to struggle with ways to reduce the amount of radiation at the site. It announced separately on Monday that it now expects a newly developed system for treating highly radioactive water to start full operation by the end of this week, to filter the rising amount of radioactive water produced by the continuous cooling of the reactor cores.

The decontamination system was originally scheduled to start operating Wednesday and delays add to concerns that the plant will run out of storage space for the contaminated water.

The system is made up mainly of zeolite-containing cartridges, developed by Kurion Inc. of the U.S., to absorb radioactive cesium and iodine, and of equipment built by French energy company Areva SA to remove radioactive materials. It can treat up to 1,200 metric tons of water daily.

After the water is decontaminated, it will be either used as coolant for the reactors or released into the ocean, according to Tepco.

Tepco said a separate device, set up near the coastline, started operating Monday to remove radioactive materials from seawater. Water is being pumped through the zeolite-filled device to collect cesium and other radioactive materials. But Tepco said it was not clear if it would remove strontium as well.

4th and Long
06-13-2011, 11:38 AM
Next thing you know, ear-less rabbits will be popping up all over the place.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rausch
06-13-2011, 11:42 AM
So, if I understand this correctly, Japan has just accidentally NUKED US?

I mean, this is HEAVY radiation and it's uncontained........with winds blowing East.

Donger
06-13-2011, 11:43 AM
So, if I understand this correctly, Japan has just accidentally NUKED US?

I mean, this is HEAVY radiation and it's uncontained........with winds blowing East.

No.

Rausch
06-13-2011, 11:44 AM
No.

Correct me where I'm wrong.

They have been in meltdown mode for months.




Space.




Winds blow east.









Space.

Donger
06-13-2011, 11:46 AM
Correct me where I'm wrong.

They have been in meltdown mode for months.




Space.




Winds blow east.









Space.


Because Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex is not in the US. Any radiation that has been detected in the US has been minuscule.

loochy
06-13-2011, 11:48 AM
So, if I understand this correctly, Japan has just accidentally NUKED US?

Serves us right, us American savages.

Rausch
06-13-2011, 11:50 AM
Because Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex is not in the US. Any radiation that has been detected in the US has been minuscule.

You really don't understand how radiation punishes the human body, do you?...

Donger
06-13-2011, 11:50 AM
You really don't understand how radiation punishes the human body, do you?...

Yes.

Rausch
06-13-2011, 11:51 AM
Serves us right, us American savages.

Choke with vigor on your own d!(k...

ClevelandBronco
06-13-2011, 11:52 AM
Choke with vigor on your own d!(k...

Donger! He's doing it again!

Donger
06-13-2011, 11:53 AM
Choke with vigor on your own d!(k...

Reported: filter evasion of a word that is not filtered.

Donger
06-13-2011, 11:55 AM
Donger! He's doing it again!

LMAO

Mr. Flopnuts
06-13-2011, 11:55 AM
Reported: filter evasion of a word that is not filtered.

Dirk? Everyone knows Loochy is a Mavs fan.

loochy
06-13-2011, 11:57 AM
Dirk? Everyone knows Loochy is a Mavs fan.

The only one choking on a Dirk is Lebron.