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View Full Version : Int'l Issues Military Considering all options......not a good sign


HonestChieffan
03-22-2011, 03:57 PM
Snipers, shells, tanks terrorize key Libyan city
Conditions are deteriorating in Misrata, with U.S. military saying it was 'considering all options'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42216979/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

While the Commander in Chief enjoys Brazil and party time there, Libya seems to be hitting the crapper. Now the buzz is "considering all options"...makes one wonder are we ready to send in Special Forces or the Big load of Marines just off shore?

Maybe we will see how the wind is blowing first. Or ask The UN. Maybe Putin can wade in with his ideas.

"This is a cluster F*** sir"

dirk digler
03-22-2011, 04:19 PM
I agree. I don't want to get bogged down or have a bunch of US troops on the ground in Libya. I was supportive of the limited scope and mission but might not be so supportive if we start putting boots on the ground

AndChiefs
03-22-2011, 04:21 PM
I wasn't supportive of the original mission and wouldn't support this either. But I suppose my opinion doesn't matter all that much.

HonestChieffan
03-22-2011, 04:22 PM
US troops open fire on villagers as fighter jet crashes: report...Boots were on the ground to rescue our pilots. Speedy guys...http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-troops-open-fire-on-villagers-as-fighter-jet-crashes-report-20110323-1c5fz.html

Thank goodness they were successful. But one wonders how many more we have there really.

HonestChieffan
03-22-2011, 04:25 PM
And while Obama waxes philosophical about handing over the reins to Nato, or the UN or somebody......The whole thing goes to hell in a handcart...

Libya: US bid to hand control to Nato halted by infighting...http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/22/us-nato-libya-operation-infighting

Diplomats in Brussels are trying to overcome a messy and often fractious start to establish a command structure for the Libyan operation that would meet Barack Obama's demand to relieve Washington of operational control.

Obama, who wants to avoid a repeat of the US-led "shock and awe" tactics of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, has made clear that Washington would command the campaign only in its early stages.

A clear message was sent across the Atlantic: Nato or a combination of its members with the support of Arab nations would have to take command of the no-fly zone to show the world the US had no wish to impose its will on a Muslim country.

Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, is keen to establish an Anglo-French command to run the military campaign. Britain is wary of the proposal, however, and is pushing hard for a clearly defined Nato operation, possibly along the lines of the International Security and Assistance Force which runs the campaign in Afghanistan.

"The French want to run this jointly with Britain," said a senior Whitehall source. "That is their preference. It is not our preference. We want Nato to deal with this because Nato has the right experience in dealing with multi-national teams."

The attempts to broker an agreement on the structure for the first major military action initiated under Obama's presidency started in a scratchy way on Monday when Nato ambassadors in Brussels held what was described as a "truly awful" and "emotional" meeting.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the Nato secretary general, prompted a walkout by the French and German ambassadors after suggesting Paris was blocking the alliance and that Berlin was dragging its feet. One observer said: "There were a range of issues related to people's egos."

Tensions were running high even before the meeting opened. Britain and the US were said to be irritated that Sarkozy acted with characteristic impetuosity by launching the first strikes shortly after a summit of decision-makers in Paris on Saturday without properly briefing allies.

France then set itself against a Nato-led operation, along the lines of the bombing of Serbian targets during the 1999 Kosovo intervention on the grounds that this could alienate Arab and Muslim allies.

Alain Juppé, the French foreign minister, intensified efforts to set up a structure outside Nato when he announced a meeting of foreign ministers from countries taking part in the military action on Libya in the next few days and mentioned Paris, Brussels and London as possible venues.

Germany, which abstained in the vote at the UN last week, agreed that Nato should have no more than a supporting role. This view is shared by Turkey, Nato's third largest member and a crucial voice in the alliance because of its predominantly Muslim population.

But Sarkozy has managed to upset Ankara. Egemen Bagis, Turkey's Europe minister, accused Sarkozy of exploiting Libya for his own electoral needs.

"A European leader began his election campaign by organising a meeting that led to a process of air strikes against Libya. He acted before a Nato decision and his act was based on his subjective evaluation of a United Nations resolution," said Bagis.

The Turkish prime minister, Tayyip Recep Erdogan, also delivered strong criticism of the no-fly zone , despite a phone call from Obama late on Monday reportedly trying to dilute Ankara's resistance to Nato taking charge. The alliance's supreme commander, Admiral James Stavridis, is to go to Turkey on Wednesday.

The Nato envoys met againto try to patch over their differences. Rasmussen announced Nato would take charge of the naval flotilla assembled in the Mediterranean to police a UN arms embargo against Libya. The ships "will conduct operations to monitor, report and, if needed, interdict vessels suspected of carrying illegal arms or mercenaries. This will be done in close co-ordination with commercial shipping and regional organisations," he said.

But this merely rubber-stamped an agreement at the weekend for Nato to patrol the arms embargo and masked the much deeper divisions over whether the alliance should take the lead on the no-fly-zone, as pushed by the Obama and Cameron governments.

One observer of Anglo-American military adventures over the last 20 years tried to make light of the impasse over the way forward for the operation. "It's a bit like a barn dance," the source said of the efforts to decide whether and how Nato would run the operation. "Half of the people can't dance, a couple are drunk and then there's always the characters at the back with their hands up various skirts."

The Rasmussen statement said: "Nato has completed plans to help enforce the no-fly zone - to bring our contribution, if needed, in a clearly defined manner, to the broad international effort to protect the people of Libya from the violence of the Gaddafi regime."

Amid the disarray over who should run the air campaign, Norway said it was keeping its aircraft grounded on Crete until it knew who was in charge. Italy, close geographically to Libya, has made seven air bases available for the "coalition of the willing" campaign, but warned that it would put them back under national control if Nato did not take charge.

British officials said the mood at Nato headquarters was more "positive" than on Monday. "We are continuing to push for what the prime minister set out – Nato command of the operation," said a UK diplomat.

Britain believes progress is being made towards a command structure not led by Nato but using what Cameron called its "machinery". One source said: "We are making progress. The atmospherics are much better than they were on Monday. There are tried and tested ways of using the Nato machinery. It does not have to be a Nato badge operation. It is plausible to use a Nato operation room and the IT and all the things you need."

Comparisons are being drawn with the Nato-led ISAF mission in Afghanistan. "There are always a lot of options with Nato," a British source said.

As the debates continued, France started to mend fences. Laurent Tessiere, spokesman for the French ministry of defence, admitted the discussions at Nato on Monday had been "very vivid" but denied that France had failed to consult allies over the timing of air strikes. France's chief of military staff had negotiated for days, "and sometimes whole nights", with his opposite numbers in Britain and the US.


Clusterf*** on all levels.

orange
03-22-2011, 04:30 PM
But conditions have deteriorated sharply in Misrata, the last major city in western Libya held by the rebel force trying to end Gadhafi's four-decade rule. Residents of the city 125 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, say shelling and sniper attacks are unrelenting. A doctor said tanks opened fire on a peaceful protest on Monday.

"The number of dead are too many for our hospital to handle," said the doctor, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals if the city falls to Gadhafi's troops. As for food, he said, "We share what we find and if we don't find anything, which happens, we don't know what to do."

Don't worry, HCF. I'm sure they're exaggerating the violence.

HonestChieffan
03-22-2011, 04:32 PM
But conditions have deteriorated sharply in Misrata, the last major city in western Libya held by the rebel force trying to end Gadhafi's four-decade rule. Residents of the city 125 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, say shelling and sniper attacks are unrelenting. A doctor said tanks opened fire on a peaceful protest on Monday.

"The number of dead are too many for our hospital to handle," said the doctor, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals if the city falls to Gadhafi's troops. As for food, he said, "We share what we find and if we don't find anything, which happens, we don't know what to do."

Don't worry, HCF. I'm sure they're exaggerating the violence.


Dont worry Im sure the issue and the timelines are of no interest to you. Lies told to justify starting the shooting can be justified by people being killed after? I like how you do that.

orange
03-22-2011, 04:37 PM
Dont worry Im sure the issue and the timelines are of no interest to you. Lies told to justify starting the shooting can be justified by people being killed after? I like how you do that.

CAIRO | Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:07pm EDT

CAIRO (Reuters) - More than 8,000 Libyans aligned with the rebel movement that rose up against Muammar Gaddafi have been killed in the revolt against his rule, a spokesman for the rebel movement told Al Jazeera Sunday.

"Our dead and martyrs number more than 8,000 killed," Abdel Hafiz Ghoga said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/20/us-libya-east-toll-idUSTRE72J43620110320


March 17th, 2011 at 5:22 pm FrumForum News | No Comments |Share | Print
Reuters reports:

Muammar Gaddafi told Libyan rebels on Thursday his armed forces were coming to their capital Benghazi tonight and would not show any mercy to fighters who resisted them.

In a radio address, he told Benghazi residents that soldiers would search every house in the city and people who had no arms had no reason to fear.

“It’s over … We are coming tonight,” he said. “You will come out from inside. Prepare yourselves from tonight. We will find you in your closets.”

The speech was broadcast on radio and television shortly after a defence ministry statement warned that any foreign military action would trigger counter-attacks and endanger all air and sea traffic in the Mediterranean region.

In Benghazi, live footage on Al Jazeera television showed hundreds of defiant Libyan rebels gathered in the central square waving the tricolour flag of the monarchy era in a rally after Gaddafi’s speech was broadcast.

In the speech, the Libyan leader denounced the rebels and said: “We will show no mercy and no pity to them”.

HonestChieffan
03-22-2011, 04:44 PM
Tell Time magazine, Im sure they need your help. Plus they don't know you are the nitwit you are so you may have a tiny hope they will retract their story in light of your internet search prowess.

Do you need the address?

The Mad Crapper
03-22-2011, 04:57 PM
LMAO at orange (B.O.'s biggest bootlicker)

Jaric
03-22-2011, 05:37 PM
If this situation drags on, Obama can kiss reelection goodbye.

BucEyedPea
03-22-2011, 06:39 PM
I agree. I don't want to get bogged down or have a bunch of US troops on the ground in Libya. I was supportive of the limited scope and mission but might not be so supportive if we start putting boots on the ground

You should have known that govt estimates are usually off more than they're ever spot-on.

If you're going to do something like this you go in all the way. This is why I usually opposed such actions.

BucEyedPea
03-22-2011, 06:39 PM
If this situation drags on, Obama can kiss reelection goodbye.

This type of thing caused the Rs to lose power too.

patteeu
03-22-2011, 07:11 PM
I wonder if the military will even bother to check on Obama's opinion or if they've been instructed to go straight to Hillary while Obama enjoys a pickup game of soccer.

orange
03-22-2011, 07:35 PM
I wonder if the military will even bother to check on Obama's opinion or if they've been instructed to go straight to Hillary while Obama enjoys a pickup game of soccer.

As I understand it, Kerry, Lieberman, McCain, even Palin, among recent White House candidates all favored intervention as well.

The real difference this time:

2003

Bush: "Are there torpedos?"
Rumsfeld: "Damn the torpedos!"
Bush: "Full speed ahead, then."

2011

Obama: "Are there torpedos?"
Gates: "There are torpedos."
Obama: "We'll get you torpedo netting, then."

HonestChieffan
03-22-2011, 08:23 PM
I wonder if the military will even bother to check on Obama's opinion or if they've been instructed to go straight to Hillary while Obama enjoys a pickup game of soccer.

I thought we were doing the UN's bidding. At this point Sarcozy and the Brits are who we need to look to.

BucEyedPea
03-22-2011, 08:30 PM
I thought we were doing the UN's bidding. At this point Sarcozy and the Brits are who we need to look to.

They're doing the UN's bidding too. At least the ten that voted "aye."ROFL

go bowe
03-22-2011, 08:40 PM
I thought we were doing the UN's bidding. At this point Sarcozy and the Brits are who we need to look to.wesley clark was talking about the command and control problem on some news channel or other and how difficult it would be to maintain command and control if they couldn't use nato's facilities...

he thought that even if they ended up using our command and control facilities, there would still be someone (probably from france) else "in charge" aka overall command...

since all american forces will remain under american command, the "in charge" part is mostly cosmetic, sfaics...

go bowe
03-22-2011, 08:45 PM
They're doing the UN's bidding too. At least the ten that voted "aye."ROFLer...

honey, aren't those 10 part of the security council? /donger

and isn't the security council a part of the u.n.? /donger again

so, are you saying that the u.n. is doing the u.n.'s bidding?

patteeu
03-22-2011, 08:47 PM
As I understand it, Kerry, Lieberman, McCain, even Palin, among recent White House candidates all favored intervention as well.

The real difference this time:

2003

Bush: "Are there torpedos?"
Rumsfeld: "Damn the torpedos!"
Bush: "Full speed ahead, then."

2011

Obama: "Are there torpedos?"
Gates: "There are torpedos."
Obama: "We'll get you torpedo netting, then."

I don't really care about any of those 4, although I suspect at least 3 of them would be doing a better job managing this situation than our current POTUS and I might be selling John Kerry short by not including him.

CoMoChief
03-22-2011, 08:57 PM
BO and the global elites are all right on schedule pushing this nation into a world war III

patteeu
03-22-2011, 09:06 PM
BO and the global elites are all right on schedule pushing this nation into a world war III

I don't think it's the global elites that are pushing for world war III, unless you mean that they think it's necessary to defend civilization from those who really are.

Dylan
03-22-2011, 10:36 PM
This "radio communications guru" from Maltese ATC is tracking air and maritime traffic in the Mediterranean. All conducted in real time via scanner or recorded.

http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=lmml

http://audioboo.fm/FMCNLHe goes by the name "FMC The Netherlands" and claims to be a reporter.

You get-real time feedback here: http://twitter.com/FMCNL/

FMCNL is not the only one picking up on military frequency.

It's crazy...

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2011, 07:11 AM
http://www.moonbattery.com/kaboom.jpg

This is why you don't blow past red flags on a guys resume like no executive experience and go ahead and elect him president any way.

go bowe
03-23-2011, 12:20 PM
LMAO at orange (B.O.'s biggest bootlicker)hey...

i'm much bigger than orange...

The Mad Crapper
03-23-2011, 12:46 PM
hey...

i'm much bigger than orange...

Sorry, orange has you beat by a country mile.:p

You gotta hand it to the guy, he's defending B.O.'s plan when B.O. doesn't even have a plan.

When Dear Leader gets back from Bolivia, or wherever the fuck he is right now, if he holds a press conference and doesn't let the press ask any questions (as per his M.O.), will you at least acknowledge that as being pretty fucked up?

go bowe
03-23-2011, 12:59 PM
Sorry, orange has you beat by a country mile.:p

You gotta hand it to the guy, he's defending B.O.'s plan when B.O. doesn't even have a plan.

When Dear Leader gets back from Bolivia, or wherever the **** he is right now, if he holds a press conference and doesn't let the press ask any questions (as per his M.O.), will you at least acknowledge that as being pretty ****ed up?no...

go bowe
03-23-2011, 01:00 PM
:p :p :p

orange
03-23-2011, 01:08 PM
Gaddafi Forces Retreat From Key City After Airstrikes AP/The Huffington Post
RYAN LUCAS and MAGGIE MICHAEL
First Posted: 03/23/11 12:49 PM Updated: 03/23/11 02:55 PM

BENGHAZI, Libya — International airstrikes forced Moammar Gadhafi's tanks to roll back from the western city of Misrata on Wednesday, a local doctor said, giving respite to civilians who have endured more than a week of attacks and a punishing blockade. NATO ships patrolled off Libya's coast as President Barack Obama said the U.S. was prepared to relinquish leadership of the campaign.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/23/gaddafi-airstrikes-libya_n_839603.html

America and the World Celebrate - ChiefsPlanet DC in mourning.

Jaric
03-23-2011, 01:10 PM
I bet we'll be greeted as liberators.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Easy 6
03-23-2011, 01:19 PM
US troops open fire on villagers as fighter jet crashes: report...Boots were on the ground to rescue our pilots. Speedy guys...http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-troops-open-fire-on-villagers-as-fighter-jet-crashes-report-20110323-1c5fz.html

Thank goodness they were successful. But one wonders how many more we have there really.

The more one reads, the worse this deal sounds.

Nobody seems to have a firm grasp of what were doing there & now the rebels are saying they want more than air cover for a few cities, they want tactical support for a march on Tripoli. This whole thing smells.

FishingRod
03-23-2011, 01:27 PM
I don’t know who the spokesman for the US military was but the Government should not ever, Ever, EVER say that any military option is off the table in dealing with a military situation. Now obviously there are lots of situations that many of our options are not really appropriate or realistic but, it would be stupid and irresponsible to spell those out for the people our forces are fighting against. If the United States never again uses a nuclear weapon that is obviously a good thing but the idea that we “just might”, is a very powerful deterrent to any would be aggressors.

teedubya
03-23-2011, 01:31 PM
This war may be about water, not oil.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4814988.stm