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petegz28
03-24-2011, 06:41 PM
Justice
March 24, 2011

Florida Judge Defends Imposing Sharia Law


Judge orders use of Islamic Law in lawsuit arbitration: MyFoxORLANDO.com
A Florida judge is defending his controversial decision to apply Islamic law instead of state or federal statutes in determining whether an arbitration award was correct, the St. Petersburg Times reports.

The case in question involves former trustees of a local Tampa mosque, the Islamic Education Center of Tampa, who are suing because they claim they were unfairly removed as trustees.

Hillsborough Circuit Judge Richard Nielsen said that the two parties can seek guidance from the Koran to resolve their dispute, according to MyFoxOrlando.com.

Nielsen said that based on testimony, "under ecclesiastical law," and pursuant to the Koran, "Islamic brothers should attempt to resolve a dispute among themselves."

"If Islamic brothers are unable to do so, they can agree to present the dispute to the greater community of Islamic brothers within the mosque or the Muslim community for resolution," he said.

The two parties reportedly agreed ahead of time to use an imam and Islamic Law to resolve any potential differences through arbitration.


http://nation.foxnews.com/justice/2011/03/24/florida-judge-defends-imposing-sharia-law

petegz28
03-24-2011, 06:41 PM
Slowly it starts. I think I was chastised here a week or so ago for sayin Sharia law was going to make its way into our courtrooms.

Jenson71
03-24-2011, 07:03 PM
Slowly it starts. I think I was chastised here a week or so ago for sayin Sharia law was going to make its way into our courtrooms.

Isn't the whole idea of arbitration something outside of the courtrooms?

banyon
03-24-2011, 07:04 PM
This is the same stupid story. Very deceptive headline. Again, for the uninitiated, parties in an arbitration can agree to resolve a dispute however they like, including traditional arbitration, "sharing law", submitting it for consideration to Glenn beck, or playing a game of checkers for it.

This judge isn't upholding sharing law, he's upholding the longstanding law of contracts.

The sad part to me is either falling for the same distortion twice, it attempting to use it knowing its deceptive.

petegz28
03-24-2011, 07:08 PM
I'm not arguing either point made, just saying, it starts with a drip.

Jenson71
03-24-2011, 07:12 PM
I'm not arguing either point made, just saying, it starts with a drip.

Great legal reasoning skills, pete!

petegz28
03-24-2011, 07:16 PM
Great legal reasoning skills, pete!

Give it time, little Jenson, give it time.

banyon
03-24-2011, 07:17 PM
I'm not arguing either point made, just saying, it starts with a drip.

It certainly does... The drip that wrote this article.

petegz28
03-24-2011, 07:22 PM
It certainly does... The drip that wrote this article.

Fair enough. What about the Dearborn Police? I'm telling you it is a matter of time at this point. Not saying it won't or can't be stopped, just saying with the way we are currently going it is just a matter of time.

Jenson71
03-24-2011, 07:26 PM
Give it time, little Jenson, give it time.

"It starts with a private agreement between two Muslims in Florida. IT ENDS WITH A MUSLIM THEOCRACY OF AMERICA!!!"

Instead of crazy ass speculation, can't we just deal with the facts as they are? Will you acknowledge that arbitration is something outside of the formal judicial system?

Jenson71
03-24-2011, 07:27 PM
Fair enough. What about the Dearborn Police? I'm telling you it is a matter of time at this point. Not saying it won't or can't be stopped, just saying with the way we are currently going it is just a matter of time.

A matter of time for what?

banyon
03-24-2011, 07:29 PM
Fair enough. What about the Dearborn Police? I'm telling you it is a matter of time at this point. Not saying it won't or can't be stopped, just saying with the way we are currently going it is just a matter of time.

The dearborn police are Muslims?

Jenson71
03-24-2011, 07:33 PM
Fair enough. What about the Dearborn Police? I'm telling you it is a matter of time at this point. Not saying it won't or can't be stopped, just saying with the way we are currently going it is just a matter of time.

What about the Dearborn police?

Amnorix
03-24-2011, 07:38 PM
I'm not arguing either point made, just saying, it starts with a drip.

What has started is the law of upholding contracts. Tell me, do you believe in the right of adults to freely enter into binding agreements, and then being held to them?

petegz28
03-24-2011, 07:48 PM
What has started is the law of upholding contracts. Tell me, do you believe in the right of adults to freely enter into binding agreements, and then being held to them?

That would depend on what is in the contracts, would it not?

The Mad Crapper
03-24-2011, 07:59 PM
"It starts with a private agreement between two Muslims in Florida. IT ENDS WITH A MUSLIM THEOCRACY OF AMERICA!!!"

Instead of crazy ass speculation, can't we just deal with the facts as they are? Will you acknowledge that arbitration is something outside of the formal judicial system?

What's going on with your sexy dead "girlfriend" Marcal?

http://media.trb.com/media/alternatethumbnails/story/2011-03/59956531-08120813.jpg

petegz28
03-24-2011, 08:00 PM
What about the Dearborn police?

http://filesfromtoni.blogspot.com/2010/07/dearborn-police-department-interested.html

I've watched some of the videos. This has been an ongoing problem in Dearborn for several years now.

Jenson71
03-24-2011, 08:11 PM
http://filesfromtoni.blogspot.com/2010/07/dearborn-police-department-interested.html

I've watched some of the videos. This has been an ongoing problem in Dearborn for several years now.

An Arab assembly takes place. Some fundamentalist Christians disrupt the assembly. They get arrested.

What's the problem here?

The Mad Crapper
03-24-2011, 08:13 PM
An Arab assembly takes place. Some fundamentalist Christians disrupt the assembly. They get arrested.

What's the problem here?

Did you attend the funeral?

http://media.trb.com/media/alternatethumbnails/story/2011-03/59956531-08120813.jpg

petegz28
03-24-2011, 08:13 PM
An Arab assembly takes place. Some fundamentalist Christians disrupt the assembly. They get arrested.

What's the problem here?

The problem is you didn't watch the videos before you made a gross and inaccurate assumption. That or you think assault is now legal.

Jenson71
03-24-2011, 08:34 PM
The problem is you didn't watch the videos before you made a gross and inaccurate assumption. That or you think assault is now legal.

What was the gross and inaccurate assumption?

go bowe
03-24-2011, 08:57 PM
Slowly it starts. I think I was chastised here a week or so ago for sayin Sharia law was going to make its way into our courtrooms.geebus, pete...

we already had a discussion about this case, it was an arbitration with the rules agreed by the parties ahead of time...

a contract issue, not a "case" being decided under islamic law...

sharia is not making it's way into courtrooms, the court merely approved the arbitration decision as a formality under state law...

go bowe
03-24-2011, 09:01 PM
The problem is you didn't watch the videos before you made a gross and inaccurate assumption. That or you think assault is now legal.what videos?

link?

banyon
03-24-2011, 09:07 PM
http://filesfromtoni.blogspot.com/2010/07/dearborn-police-department-interested.html

I've watched some of the videos. This has been an ongoing problem in Dearborn for several years now.

I watched one of the videos. It appeared they were organizing and demonstrating very close to the muslim event without a permit.

This is the same thing that would happen to the Phelps clan if they didn't stay within their 1000 ft "free speech zone".

They also had large gaps in the videos which did not help with objectivity.

petegz28
03-24-2011, 09:09 PM
I watched one of the videos. It appeared they were organizing and demonstrating very close to the muslim event without a permit.

This is the same thing that would happen to the Phelps clan if they didn't stay within their 1000 ft "free speech zone".

They also had large gaps in the videos which did not help with objectivity.

One of the videos I saw had several instances one could easily call assault. The video evidence was not ever viewed nor allowed to be used as a defense. That's a problem and I am sure you agree with that.

banyon
03-24-2011, 09:13 PM
One of the videos I saw had several instances one could easily call assault. The video evidence was not ever viewed nor allowed to be used as a defense. That's a problem and I am sure you agree with that.

I guess I'm going to ask for some proof of that, because I've seen almost zero cases where refusal to allow exculpatory evidence to be presented in a defendant's case isn't automatic reversible error.

Amnorix
03-24-2011, 09:13 PM
That would depend on what is in the contracts, would it not?

Generally, so long as the subject matter of the contract does not relate to something illegal and the provisions don't violate some public policy, it's going to be upheld.

Given that there is a VERY broad mandate generally to uphold arbitration provisions in contracts, and arbitrator's decisions (since adults are generally allowed to decide who will resolve their disputes if they AGREED IN WRITING to it), there is going to be a very strong impetus to uphold an arbitrator's ruling unless it is arbitrary and capricious or whatever the applicable standard is.

Amnorix
03-24-2011, 09:20 PM
Hey Pete,

Why don't you read this article which talks about how the courts generally uphold arbitration rulings, and some of the complexities involved in reviewing religious-based arbitrations. Among other things, it notes some cases where courts upheld rulings made by Christian and Jewish arbitration panels.

http://www.columbialawreview.org/assets/pdfs/107/1/Grossman.pdf

You should also note that courts are not acting arbitrarily or under some sort of common law doctrine. There is a FEDERAL LAW, the Federal Arbitration Act, that lays down parameters regarding the interaction between arbitrators/arbitration and the courts.

The claims that Sharia law is becoming the law of the land or whatever is completely and absolutely absurd and any such statement is one of only two possible things: (1) a bold-faced lie, or (2) a statement made by the ignorant.

petegz28
03-24-2011, 10:07 PM
Hey Pete,

Why don't you read this article which talks about how the courts generally uphold arbitration rulings, and some of the complexities involved in reviewing religious-based arbitrations. Among other things, it notes some cases where courts upheld rulings made by Christian and Jewish arbitration panels.

http://www.columbialawreview.org/assets/pdfs/107/1/Grossman.pdf

You should also note that courts are not acting arbitrarily or under some sort of common law doctrine. There is a FEDERAL LAW, the Federal Arbitration Act, that lays down parameters regarding the interaction between arbitrators/arbitration and the courts.

The claims that Sharia law is becoming the law of the land or whatever is completely and absolutely absurd and any such statement is one of only two possible things: (1) a bold-faced lie, or (2) a statement made by the ignorant.

I never said it was becoming the law of the land. I said the drip drops leading up to that seem to be starting to show up. It's happening all over Europe and given the state of political correctness in this country and the eagerness of politicos to sell their own mother for votes I have no reason to believe it won't start to happen here. I hope I am wrong.

petegz28
03-24-2011, 10:08 PM
I guess I'm going to ask for some proof of that, because I've seen almost zero cases where refusal to allow exculpatory evidence to be presented in a defendant's case isn't automatic reversible error.

That is the case the defendant's are claiming.

banyon
03-24-2011, 10:10 PM
That is the case the defendant's are claiming.

So, no proof or links to a court case where they couldn't defend themselves then?

Any documents or more severely edited videos alleged to be relevant?

petegz28
03-24-2011, 10:11 PM
So, no proof or links to a court case where they couldn't defend themselves then?

Any documents or more severely edited videos alleged to be relevant?

You can google it if you wish. All I can tell you is what they are claiming. I think it a fool's errand to claim something like that if it was false but who knows these days? And I don't know if it has gone to court yet or not?

petegz28
03-24-2011, 10:14 PM
So, no proof or links to a court case where they couldn't defend themselves then?

Any documents or more severely edited videos alleged to be relevant?

Thus far, police and prosecutors have refused to return the illegally seized cameras and video tapes. They have also refused to provide the Law Center with the police reports of the incident despite repeated requests.

That was in July of 2010

orange
03-24-2011, 10:27 PM
That was in July of 2010

Yes. July was a long time ago. Do you suppose anything might have happened in the meantime?

Like, them getting acquitted for example?

petegz28
03-24-2011, 10:28 PM
Yes. July was a long time ago. Do you suppose anything might have happened in the meantime?

Like, them getting acquitted for example?

Don't know. I have looked for the result of a court case, I can't find anything. I am not saying it hasn't happened just not finding anything. I am sure you will educate us all with a link.

orange
03-24-2011, 10:34 PM
Christian missionaries acquitted of disorderly conduct charges
Published: Monday, September 27, 2010

DEARBORN -- A jury Dearborn acquitted four Christian missionaries Friday of charges of disorderly conduct at an Arab cultural festival.

http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2010/09/27/news/doc4ca0bc554aef0883747291.txt

They had good lawyers.
ACLU joins those defending rights of Act 17 Apologetics at Arab Festival
Published: Tuesday, July 27, 2010

DEARBORN — A Dearborn attorney and the American Civil Liberties Union say the controversial actions of four Christian missionaries who were arrested last month at the Arab International Festival were not only not illegal, but explicitly protected by the Constitution.

http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2010/07/27/news/doc4c4f0ed1eba80981771841.txt :hmmm:

petegz28
03-24-2011, 10:38 PM
Christian missionaries acquitted of disorderly conduct charges
Published: Monday, September 27, 2010

DEARBORN -- A jury Dearborn acquitted four Christian missionaries Friday of charges of disorderly conduct at an Arab cultural festival.

http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2010/09/27/news/doc4ca0bc554aef0883747291.txt

They had good lawyers.
ACLU joins those defending rights of Act 17 Apologetics at Arab Festival
Published: Tuesday, July 27, 2010

DEARBORN A Dearborn attorney and the American Civil Liberties Union say the controversial actions of four Christian missionaries who were arrested last month at the Arab International Festival were not only not illegal, but explicitly protected by the Constitution.

http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2010/07/27/news/doc4c4f0ed1eba80981771841.txt :hmmm:

Well that's a good thing.

orange
03-24-2011, 10:39 PM
:banghead: damn ACLU!

How are we ever going to get Sharia Law with those damned liberals sticking their noses into everything?!

|Zach|
03-25-2011, 02:00 AM
Hilarious thread.

Direckshun
03-25-2011, 02:19 AM
It starts with arbitration contracts being upheld.

Next thing you know, your mother is being forced into a burka while Muhammed Jihad is raping your wife.

Now you're the father of an illegitimate baby with Obama's skin tone and you have to ask yourself: how did it come to this?

Pete knows how! If only we had listened!

Amnorix
03-25-2011, 05:30 AM
I hope I am wrong.

You are, because this seriously has nothing to do with what you seem to think it does.

petegz28
03-25-2011, 05:59 AM
You are, because this seriously has nothing to do with what you seem to think it does.

Yea well, I didn't think I'd ever see Christmas as a hot topic in public schools either.

RubberSponge
03-25-2011, 09:24 AM
Not to stray from the discussion. But for those interested, speaking of Judges.


Bout time, Wesley...

March 25, 2011

Federal Judge Lightens Case Load At 103
http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Federal_Judge_Lightens_Case_Load_At_103_118642959.html


A 103-year-old federal judge still serving on the bench in Kansas is lightening his case load.

The law clerk for U.S. District Judge Wesley Brown confirmed Thursday that the judge is removing himself from the draw for assignment of new criminal cases. Thursday's docket also showed several of his existing cases being reassigned to other judges.

His law clerk, Michael Lahey, told The Associated Press that Brown will continue to preside over fewer of his remaining criminal and civil cases.

The judge uses oxygen as he presides from the bench, and Lahey says the lengthy plea hearings "take a lot of oxygen" from him.

Brown was appointed to the federal bench by President John F. Kennedy in 1962.

He turns 104 in June.

Garcia Bronco
03-25-2011, 10:48 AM
Isn't the whole idea of arbitration something outside of the courtrooms?

Yes...and if the 2 parties what to take it to people's court they can.

BucEyedPea
03-25-2011, 05:27 PM
It starts with arbitration contracts being upheld.


Precisely!

The courts are overloaded so let private interest handle disputes in their own groups religious or otherwise. Even some Christian groups do this. It doesn't mean a theocracy or a Caliphate is going to be established.