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Frankie
04-11-2011, 12:27 AM
Healthy Living Sunday, April 10, 2011

The 6 exercise machines you must avoid

Walking into the gym and expecting a great workout is like walking into the supermarket and expecting a gourmet meal. The basic ingredients are there, but like they say in the infomercials, results may vary. With working out, as with cooking, a little bit of smarts, dedication, creativity and knowledge will make all the difference between perfect pasta and a gelatinous ball of mush.

For this list of no-no exercises, we consulted Stuart McGill, PhD, professor of spine biomechanics at the University of Waterloo, in Ontario; Nicholas DiNubile, MD, author of FrameWork: Your 7-Step Program for Healthy Muscles, Bones, and Joints; and trainer Vern Gambetta, author of Athletic Development: The Art & Science of Functional Sports Conditioning.


http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/health/the-6-exercise-machines-you-must-avoid-2470714/


1. Seated Leg Extension

http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/iAi.C7_a3lKU/photos/d047030afdac0fe6e8a7dddc7712ead6/ori_cec4ed5224ec03.jpg?ug_____DrsBG.aoq

What it's supposed to do: Train the quadriceps. What it actually does: It strengthens a motion your legs aren't actually designed to do, and can put undue strain on the ligaments and tendons surrounding the kneecaps.

A better exercise: One-legged body-weight squats. Lift one leg up and bend the opposite knee, dipping as far as you can, with control, while flexing at the hip, knee, and ankle. Use a rail for support until you develop requisite leg strength and balance. Aim for five to 10 reps on each leg. (If you are susceptible to knee pain, do the Bulgarian split squat instead, resting the top of one foot on a bench positioned two to three feet behind you. Descend until your thigh is parallel to the ground and then stand back up. Do five to 10 reps per leg.)


2. Seated Lat Pull-Down (Behind the Neck)

http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/ct0kTg46uj9z/photos/7162ece89baaf654e5e739df32da2a15/mr_13a07301cfe596.jpg?ug_____DKADfJkp9

What it's supposed to do: Train lats, upper back, and biceps. What it actually does: Unless you have very flexible shoulders, it's difficult to do correctly, so it can cause pinching in the shoulder joint and damage the rotator cuff.

A better exercise: Incline pull-ups. Place a bar in the squat rack at waist height, grab the bar with both hands, and hang from the bar with your feet stretched out in front of you. Keep your torso stiff, and pull your chest to the bar 10 to 15 times. To make it harder, lower the bar; to make it easier, raise the bar.


3. Seated Hip Abductor Machine

http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/ZkXcTPecoh8i/photos/3b87a464cfac6d2bb635e65510fb0e5a/ori_62bced6b5a4242.jpg?ug_____Dgw81nDJP

What it's supposed to do: Train outer thighs. What it actually does: Because you are seated, it trains a movement that has no functional use. If done with excessive weight and jerky technique, it can put undue pressure on the spine.

A better exercise: Place a heavy, short, looped resistance band around your legs (at your ankles); sidestep out 20 paces and back with control. This is much harder than it sounds.


4. Seated Leg Press

http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/cIH3A7j3jXec/photos/b9bc24401b039426a3d5d881bcc8c1e2/ori_bba20ccf4a15fd.jpg?ug_____D4QoXFaim

What it's supposed to do: Train quadriceps, glutes, and hamstrings. What it actually does: It often forces the spine to flex without engaging any of the necessary stabilization muscles of the hips, glutes, shoulders, and lower back.

A better exercise: Body-weight squats. Focus on descending with control as far as you can without rounding your lower back. Aim for 15 to 20 for a set and increase sets as you develop strength.


5. Squats Using Smith Machine

http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/mo9oEvqSq0mn/photos/5289806919787ef592430c0709e79cd9/mr_305b855eeef492.jpg?ug_____DSEWx2UVs


What it's supposed to do: Train chest, biceps, and legs. What it actually does: The alignment of the machine—the bar is attached to a vertical sliding track—makes for linear, not natural, arched movements. This puts stress on the knees, shoulders, and lower back.

A better exercise: Body-weight or weighted squats. See "Seated Leg Press" above.


6. Roman Chair Back Extension
http://a323.yahoofs.com/phugc/0Q1meMmJNjvW/photos/e6c545383b88e1c89f321bf56fda767f/ori_5724e87d90ede2.jpg?ug_____DUZxsoQrx

What it's supposed to do: Train spinal erectors. What it actually does: Repeatedly flexing the back while it's supporting weight places pressure on the spine and increases the risk of damaging your disks.

A better exercise: The bird-dog. Crouch on all fours, extend your right arm forward, and extend left leg backward. Do 10 seven-second reps, and then switch to the opposite side.

Silock
04-11-2011, 12:30 AM
Yup.

99% of weight machines are evil.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 12:34 AM
I'll bet you could count the times

kysirsoze
04-11-2011, 12:35 AM
Dang. Good info, thanks.

alnorth
04-11-2011, 12:37 AM
Cool, thanks

Rain Man
04-11-2011, 12:41 AM
#4 is the only weight machine I'm good at. I'm a 180-lb. weakling on most machines, but I can do the whole stack on #4. I have the thighs of a greek god.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 12:46 AM
Dang. Good info, thanks.

Any restricted movement is inferior to free movement from a variety of standpoints. Dangerous is a stretch especially on the leg extensions and hyperextensions. Heavy weight restricted sure. Heavy weight can always cause issues though. My point is Frankie doesn't know his lambstring from a ham bone so I find it humorous that he would post this.

CrazyPhuD
04-11-2011, 12:48 AM
Which exercise has the greatest risk of me pulling my groin?

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 12:52 AM
Which exercise has the greatest risk of me pulling my groin?

Yea Frankie LaLanne, why don't you pull that one out of your hookah.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 12:56 AM
Yea Frankie LaLanne, why don't you pull that one out of your hookah.

This google search is obviously going to take awhile.

Captain Obvious
04-11-2011, 12:56 AM
Any restricted movement is inferior to free movement from a variety of standpoints. Dangerous is a stretch especially on the leg extensions and hyperextensions. Heavy weight restricted sure. Heavy weight can always cause issues though. My point is Frankie doesn't know his hambstring from a ham bone so I find it humorous that he would post this.

Is the 'b' silent in hambstring? :spock:

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 12:59 AM
Is the 'b' silent in hambstring? :spock:

with mint jelly LMAO

kysirsoze
04-11-2011, 06:11 AM
Any restricted movement is inferior to free movement from a variety of standpoints. Dangerous is a stretch especially on the leg extensions and hyperextensions. Heavy weight restricted sure. Heavy weight can always cause issues though. My point is Frankie doesn't know his lambstring from a ham bone so I find it humorous that he would post this.

Yeah, I guess it makes logical sense. Still never thought of it as harmful as much as less beneficial.

(I'm staying out of the you and Frankie part of this post)

Saulbadguy
04-11-2011, 06:56 AM
[QUOTE=BIG_DADDY;7553094]I'll bet you could count the times [QUOTE]

Reported.

dannybcaitlyn
04-11-2011, 08:20 AM
I don't know what to think about this. I just had knee surgery and my physical therapist is having me doing some of these exercises to avoid. So now were saying that the whole physical therapy propaganda is wrong and they have been taught the wrong things and now pass it on us to be further injured?

eazyb81
04-11-2011, 08:23 AM
The Smith Machine is absolute garbage, yet 90% of people use it because they are scared to use a standard power rack.

Hog Farmer
04-11-2011, 08:56 AM
If you want a good workout try jackin a 900 pound boar hog !

kepp
04-11-2011, 09:01 AM
I've used all of those at one time or another and never thought twice about it. But it makes sense because most of those motions aren't natural.

EDIT:
If you want a good workout try jackin a 900 pound boar hog !

I've never tried that.

BigCatDaddy
04-11-2011, 09:11 AM
The Smith Machine is absolute garbage, yet 90% of people use it because they are scared to use a standard power rack.

I love me some upright rows on the Smith Machine.

dannybcaitlyn
04-11-2011, 09:18 AM
I've used all of those at one time or another and never thought twice about it. But it makes sense because most of those motions aren't natural.

EDIT:


I've never tried that.

So what your saying is that you being on all fours is natural to you?

kepp
04-11-2011, 09:23 AM
So what your saying is that you being on all fours is natural to you?

Uh, no...pretty sure I didn't say that. Especially since exactly 0 of the mentioned exercises are "on all fours".

dannybcaitlyn
04-11-2011, 09:29 AM
Uh, no...pretty sure I didn't say that. Especially since exactly 0 of the mentioned exercises are "on all fours".

Roman chair back extensions - substitute for bird dog exercise.

HemiEd
04-11-2011, 09:46 AM
Darn it. The PT had me doing the first five as part of my regular workout.

Omaha
04-11-2011, 09:48 AM
Darn it. The PT had me doing the first five as part of my regular workout.

Time to find a new PT.

Frankie
04-11-2011, 09:49 AM
Is the 'b' silent in hambstring? :spock:

ROFL

People who question others' knowledge and ability should improve theirs' first.

Frankie
04-11-2011, 09:51 AM
Yeah, I guess it makes logical sense. Still never thought of it as harmful as much as less beneficial.

(I'm staying out of the you and Frankie part of this post)

So am I, but some people are too stupid to learn where they are not welcome.

Frankie
04-11-2011, 09:52 AM
If you want a good workout try jackin a 900 pound boar hog !

:LOL:

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 10:09 AM
So am I, but some people are too stupid to learn where they are not welcome.

Still don't have the answer I see. Your Google skills are lacking.

I spent most of my life running health clubs and training people. Anytime you want to really answer questions instead of using the cut and paste option bring it on. I don't think you spent a single day of your life training.

WV
04-11-2011, 10:11 AM
The Smith Machine is absolute garbage, yet 90% of people use it because they are scared to use a standard power rack.

I'm not a huge smith machine fan either, but its tough to beat when your working out alone. That's the only time i use mine.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 10:14 AM
I'm not a huge smith machine fan either, but its tough to beat when your working out alone. That's the only time i use mine.

Crash bars are sufficient.

HemiEd
04-11-2011, 10:18 AM
Time to find a new PT.

I hear ya, but I fired him a long time ago.

I knew absolutely less than nothing about working out, so he gave me a good foundation. I spend most of my time on free weights now, the chest/back machines, and triceps pull down. But I will make sure I don't do any of these 6 in the future. The three leg exercises was still in my off day leg program.

It has been a real good thing, except for a couple injuries I have incurred.

Inspector
04-11-2011, 10:48 AM
So what about them bowflex machines? Are those bad for ya?

Do they work ok for old people if they use less weight?

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 11:00 AM
You want real information about about injuries in the gym I'll give it to you. Far and away the most injuries take place using a barbell on the bench. From kids roided out lifting too much to guys in their early 30's who have already worn out their shoulders. We used to have a saying, use barbells, lift today. Use dumbbells lift a lifetime. After 30 years of lifting I can assure you that you can eventually wear out those shoulders anyway but that's probably 1% of 1% of all people that lift. 2nd most injuries come from the squat rack. From improper lifting to the dipshit that steps out of the cage without a spotter this easily is the runner up.

BTW, I have never seen anyone sustain an injury on leg extensions, machine leg press, roman chair or hip abductor for that matter.

Omaha
04-11-2011, 11:01 AM
Crash bars are sufficient.

This.

The only thing I use a Smith Machine for is this:

A better exercise: Incline pull-ups. Place a bar in the squat rack at waist height, grab the bar with both hands, and hang from the bar with your feet stretched out in front of you. Keep your torso stiff, and pull your chest to the bar 10 to 15 times. To make it harder, lower the bar; to make it easier, raise the bar.

Radar Chief
04-11-2011, 11:02 AM
#4 is the only weight machine I'm good at. I'm a 180-lb. weakling on most machines, but I can do the whole stack on #4. I have the thighs of a greek god.

Thatís exactly how people injure themselves on leg press machines like that.
When I was in the Army I knew a 120# female that leg pressed 600# and didnít know it at the time but separated a couple of ribs from her spine doing it. That injury took her out for a while.

Edit: to clarify, she was using a leg press more like this than the one in #4.

http://bodybuildingequipment.ericsgym.com/verticallegpress/bodysolidpowerline/zoom/index.htm

NewChief
04-11-2011, 11:03 AM
What is the term for a Smith machine that actually allows horizontal range of motion as well? My gym has a smith machine, but it also has a machine where the bar can move on axes both horizontal and perpendicular to the floor.

HemiEd
04-11-2011, 11:11 AM
You want real information about about injuries in the gym I'll give it to you. Far and away the most injuries take place using a barbell on the bench. From kids roided out lifting too much to guys in their early 30's who have already worn out their shoulders. We used to have a saying, use barbells, lift today. Use dumbbells lift a lifetime. After 30 years of lifting I can assure you that you can eventually wear out those shoulders anyway but that's probably 1% of 1% of all people that lift. 2nd most injuries come from the squat rack. From improper lifting to the dipshit that steps out of the cage without a spotter this easily is the runner up.

BTW, I have never seen anyone sustain an injury on leg extensions, machine leg press, roman chair or hip abductor for that matter.

I got one on the hip abductor, it hurt like hell for several weeks. Using too much weight, and I pulled something.

The other injury was from doing too much weight on the curls. Pulled both elbow tendons, and that is probably going to take surgery, by the time we are done. We are on the third steriod shot now.

QuikSsurfer
04-11-2011, 11:13 AM
The Smith Machine is absolute garbage, yet 90% of people use it because they are scared to use a standard power rack.

I'm not scared... I use it because of its ease of use and safety -- as I normally workout alone.

And i've had great results from sitting Lat pulldowns (pull down to chest though, not back of neck).. I usually alternate this exercise with dips.

QuikSsurfer
04-11-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm not a huge smith machine fan either, but its tough to beat when your working out alone. That's the only time i use mine.

and this

Silock
04-11-2011, 11:33 AM
You want real information about about injuries in the gym I'll give it to you. Far and away the most injuries take place using a barbell on the bench. From kids roided out lifting too much to guys in their early 30's who have already worn out their shoulders. We used to have a saying, use barbells, lift today. Use dumbbells lift a lifetime. After 30 years of lifting I can assure you that you can eventually wear out those shoulders anyway but that's probably 1% of 1% of all people that lift. 2nd most injuries come from the squat rack. From improper lifting to the dipshit that steps out of the cage without a spotter this easily is the runner up.

BTW, I have never seen anyone sustain an injury on leg extensions, machine leg press, roman chair or hip abductor for that matter.

Form is important. Machines take that away from you, so that it's more difficult to sustain a sudden injury. Machines generally injure you over time, which is why you don't see someone just fucking themselves up in one sitting.

Silock
04-11-2011, 11:34 AM
I don't know what to think about this. I just had knee surgery and my physical therapist is having me doing some of these exercises to avoid. So now were saying that the whole physical therapy propaganda is wrong and they have been taught the wrong things and now pass it on us to be further injured?

No. Do the exercises. I'm guessing they are having you use very light weight at high reps to rehab, right? The problems with these machines generally appear with higher weight. So, do your rehab, but I wouldn't make a habit out of incorporating them into your workout for a lifetime using heavier weight.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 11:40 AM
Form is important. Machines take that away from you, so that it's more difficult to sustain a sudden injury. Machines generally injure you over time, which is why you don't see someone just ****ing themselves up in one sitting.

It's that whole locked in thing. Free weights are better from a variety of standpoints.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 11:41 AM
I got one on the hip abductor, it hurt like hell for several weeks. Using too much weight, and I pulled something.

The other injury was from doing too much weight on the curls. Pulled both elbow tendons, and that is probably going to take surgery, by the time we are done. We are on the third steriod shot now.

Why would you lift heavy on an abductor?

HemiEd
04-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Why would you lift heavy on an abductor?

How do you find the right weight? I have seen guys hang additional weights off of the peg, beyond the 220 lb. capacity of the machine. I am only talking about 140 being too much for my old carcus. 100 is just right.

Brock
04-11-2011, 12:00 PM
Mostly, all machines do is take up space that could be better put to use with more benches and dumbbells. I think what they're saying about leg extensions is a crock though. Extending the leg isn't a natural motion? BS.

dannybcaitlyn
04-11-2011, 12:00 PM
No. Do the exercises. I'm guessing they are having you use very light weight at high reps to rehab, right? The problems with these machines generally appear with higher weight. So, do your rehab, but I wouldn't make a habit out of incorporating them into your workout for a lifetime using heavier weight.

Gotcha. It is light weight but still heavy to my newly repaired knee. Like you said, probably happening from people using heavy weights for these exercises.

BigCatDaddy
04-11-2011, 12:15 PM
My worst injury was a damn strained tendon from locking out on barbell curls. Now I'm a member of the not locking out club.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 12:20 PM
How do you find the right weight? I have seen guys hang additional weights off of the peg, beyond the 220 lb. capacity of the machine. I am only talking about 140 being too much for my old carcus. 100 is just right.

I just find it funny that anyone would want huge hips. I used it really light to develope hip strength for kicks. I never even thought of lifting heavy on it.

Silock
04-11-2011, 12:21 PM
It's that whole locked in thing. Free weights are better from a variety of standpoints.

110% agreement there.

Just saying that lots of people fuck up their shoulders doing BB bench press, but they do it with bad form (elbows flared out, too high up on the chest, etc.) and then blame the exercise instead of their bad form.

Silock
04-11-2011, 12:22 PM
Mostly, all machines do is take up space that could be better put to use with more benches and dumbbells. I think what they're saying about leg extensions is a crock though. Extending the leg isn't a natural motion? BS.

Not with a shitload of weight it isn't.

Detoxing
04-11-2011, 12:22 PM
This is a conspiracy. I've known this shit for years. They create these exercise machines that dont really work so people can get discouraged and then plug themselves back into the TV. They dont want a healthy America. They want a fat and lazy America. You're easier to control that way. And most Americans have no problem being fat and lazy. It's becoming culturaly accepted.

This is exactly what CBS & Fox want. To keep you tuned in and oblivous to what the Government is doing right in front of your eyes.

HemiEd
04-11-2011, 12:47 PM
I just find it funny that anyone would want huge hips. I used it really light to develope hip strength for kicks. I never even thought of lifting heavy on it.

Admittedly, I am sure no expert on the subject. But it is my understanding that building muscle in those areas accomplishes several things, especially when you get older.

1) helps with keeping joints solid, and supports them
2) muscle helps burn fat

Are these not correct? Heck, I see the frailest of woman using 60 to 80 lbs. on those machines. Aren't you looking for the right amount of resistance for your particular body?

Personally, I have seen a big improvement in those areas, so there must some validity to it. Big muscles are not really an option or desired. But the improvement I have seen in my ability to do a lot of activities is well worth the effort.

Previously, I would find my hips hurting on extended drives in the car 6-12 hours. Now, if I keep current with my workouts on those machines, it is not an issue.

Brock
04-11-2011, 01:00 PM
Not with a shitload of weight it isn't.

Any exercise with too much weight is a bad idea.

jiveturkey
04-11-2011, 01:06 PM
Mostly, all machines do is take up space that could be better put to use with more benches and dumbbells. I think what they're saying about leg extensions is a crock though. Extending the leg isn't a natural motion? BS.I've always been told to avoid that exercise. With any weight it supposedly causes your knee cap to track improperly.

You use the same muscles when you squat anyway.

Renegade
04-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Wow 2 pages, and not one comment on the women in pictures 1,4, and 6. This place has lost its burst.

eazyb81
04-11-2011, 01:14 PM
I'm not scared... I use it because of its ease of use and safety -- as I normally workout alone.

And i've had great results from sitting Lat pulldowns (pull down to chest though, not back of neck).. I usually alternate this exercise with dips.

I workout alone as well, and just use enough weight on BB bench to do reps so I can involve my stabilizers as well. If I am feeling tired or unconfident on a set I will ask for a spot. I wait to push my weight on DB incline press.

BigCatDaddy
04-11-2011, 01:14 PM
Wow 2 pages, and not one comment on the women in pictures 1,4, and 6. This place has lost its burst.

6 does give me a really good idea :)

BigCatDaddy
04-11-2011, 01:16 PM
The dude that won MR Kansas 2009 overall trains at my gym and pretty much all I see him do for legs are front squats on the Smith Machine...... for about 1/2 hour..

Silock
04-11-2011, 02:50 PM
Any exercise with too much weight is a bad idea.

Sure, but you aren't going to get much out of a leg extension without using a lot of weight. We can agree that there are certain exercises which are inherently more dangerous, can't we?

Silock
04-11-2011, 02:52 PM
I workout alone as well, and just use enough weight on BB bench to do reps so I can involve my stabilizers as well. If I am feeling tired or unconfident on a set I will ask for a spot. I wait to push my weight on DB incline press.

Yeah, I get nervous if I don't use a spotter for my heavy sets. You never know what might go wrong. That's why I'll never have a home gym. Some people are afraid to ask for spots at the gym. I don't get it.

Brock
04-11-2011, 02:54 PM
Sure, but you aren't going to get much out of a leg extension without using a lot of weight. We can agree that there are certain exercises which are inherently more dangerous, can't we?

LOL. You know as well as anyone that the number of people injured by squats is probably 1000 times that of the people injured by doing LEs.

Silock
04-11-2011, 02:58 PM
Maybe -- it's hard to gauge because one is a repetitive stress type of danger and the other is bad form danger. But that's not because the squat is inherently dangerous. It's because people are retarded and don't bother to learn the proper form, or let their egos get in the way.

BigCatDaddy
04-11-2011, 03:07 PM
Maybe -- it's hard to gauge because one is a repetitive stress type of danger and the other is bad form danger. But that's not because the squat is inherently dangerous. It's because people are retarded and don't bother to learn the proper form, or let their egos get in the way.

Good point. I guess I've never heard anybody say, "Hey Bro, what are you leg extensioning these days".

Brock
04-11-2011, 03:14 PM
Good point. I guess I've never heard anybody say, "Hey Bro, what are you leg extensioning these days".

Of course not. It's not really all that useful of an exercise, but to act like it's some kind of unnatural movement and put it at number one of a list of exercises that shouldn't be done is completely ridiculous.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 03:19 PM
Admittedly, I am sure no expert on the subject. But it is my understanding that building muscle in those areas accomplishes several things, especially when you get older.

1) helps with keeping joints solid, and supports them
2) muscle helps burn fat

Are these not correct? Heck, I see the frailest of woman using 60 to 80 lbs. on those machines. Aren't you looking for the right amount of resistance for your particular body?

Personally, I have seen a big improvement in those areas, so there must some validity to it. Big muscles are not really an option or desired. But the improvement I have seen in my ability to do a lot of activities is well worth the effort.

Previously, I would find my hips hurting on extended drives in the car 6-12 hours. Now, if I keep current with my workouts on those machines, it is not an issue.

Meh, you are only going to put on so much muscle from that machine. Stick with your meat and potato lifts. If your worried about your joints stretch, take a yoga class.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 03:20 PM
110% agreement there.

Just saying that lots of people **** up their shoulders doing BB bench press, but they do it with bad form (elbows flared out, too high up on the chest, etc.) and then blame the exercise instead of their bad form.

Very true. You will still lift longer if you use dumbbells primarily.

BigCatDaddy
04-11-2011, 03:20 PM
Of course not. It's not really all that useful of an exercise, but to act like it's some kind of unnatural movement and put it at number one of a list of exercises that shouldn't be done is completely ridiculous.

I'm with you. I do it with the entire stack and have for many years and it hasn't caused an injury yet.

Silock
04-11-2011, 03:32 PM
Of course not. It's not really all that useful of an exercise, but to act like it's some kind of unnatural movement and put it at number one of a list of exercises that shouldn't be done is completely ridiculous.

Except it IS an unnatural movement. You don't do things that mimic leg extensions (at least not with resistance) when you aren't doing leg extensions. You're talking about an open chain movement versus a closed chain movement. Your foot isn't planted on the ground, so you can't recruit all of the necessary muscles to stabilize your knees (like the hamstrings). So, your quads end up pulling your knee slightly out of alignment. Add weight to that, and well, it's bad.

Silock
04-11-2011, 03:33 PM
Very true. You will still lift longer if you use dumbbells primarily.

I don't disagree. I use BB now because my gym doesn't have a very good selection of DBs (only 5 lbs increments) and they only go up to 100 lbs.

Demonpenz
04-11-2011, 03:36 PM
I have been doing squat lately 12 reps 150 pounds or so, I am not in good shape to be lifting, watched some youtube videos. Man it's hard to do stuff like walk to the fridge to get some pancakes when your legs are sore.

HemiEd
04-11-2011, 03:51 PM
Meh, you are only going to put on so much muscle from that machine. Stick with your meat and potato lifts. If your worried about your joints stretch, take a yoga class.

I will stick with what is working for me, and I enjoy. Thanks though.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 04:15 PM
I will stick with what is working for me, and I enjoy. Thanks though.

I thought you said you hurt yourself doing that. My bad.

HemiEd
04-11-2011, 04:18 PM
I thought you said you hurt yourself doing that. My bad.

I did, when I was using too much weight. That is how I learned. I also said that it is helping me. No bad at all.

See, as I mentioned earlier, I was pretty ignorant on the subject and unlike some people will admit it. I hired a PT for 6 months, and one thing I did notice, when a particular weight became too easy for me, he would step it up.

Well, once I let him go, I started stepping it up too much, that is when I hurt myself on both occasions.

BIG_DADDY
04-11-2011, 04:21 PM
Maybe -- it's hard to gauge because one is a repetitive stress type of danger and the other is bad form danger. But that's not because the squat is inherently dangerous. It's because people are retarded and don't bother to learn the proper form, or let their egos get in the way.

The ego's + testosterone = retarded. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I had to threaten to kick people out of the gym if they kept doing something because I knew they were going to hurt themself. Finally only after that with the whole gym staring at them like the dumbass they are will some of them get it. I have had others just leave though all upset. Freakin lame.

Omaha
04-11-2011, 05:45 PM
Of course not. It's not really all that useful of an exercise, but to act like it's some kind of unnatural movement and put it at number one of a list of exercises that shouldn't be done is completely ridiculous.

I'm not sure why you're clinging to the fact that it's a natural movement, but the article states that it "can put undue strain on the ligaments and tendons surrounding the kneecaps." This is not new information. This has been fairly common knowledge for at least 10 years.

Frankie
04-15-2011, 04:42 PM
The best of all exercise machines:







http://svalko.org/data/2010_10_01_12_42_26_media_tumblr_com_tumblr_l97y68teJ11qzbr0xo1_400.gif


If you are a mouse that is.

Abinadom
06-07-2011, 03:29 AM
Yap buddies I also wanna say that always perform that one exercise which give you the better one results out there and make your body perfect and strong..... Other wise there is no benefit of wasting time in the gym....

FAX
06-07-2011, 03:47 AM
For maintaining an enviable physique, I prefer the traditional squat thrust.

FAX

Over-Head
06-07-2011, 06:46 AM
Which exercise has the greatest risk of me pulling my groin?

Humping the fat chick sitting beside the black guy in the `would you` thread

Inspector
06-07-2011, 07:43 AM
So what about them bowflex machines? Are those bad for ya?

Do they work ok for old people if they use less weight?

Workout experts?

Any input?

Bowflex good for older folks?

Saulbadguy
06-07-2011, 07:50 AM
Workout experts?

Any input?

Bowflex good for older folks?

I have no clue whether they work good or not, I assume they are better than nothing.

They are very expensive though.

mlyonsd
06-07-2011, 08:44 AM
Workout experts?

Any input?

Bowflex good for older folks?

I'm 51 and have had my Bowflex for two years. I use it 5-6 times a week. It has held up very well, no breakdowns whatsoever.

You can change exercises very quickly. I do about 23 different exercises, 3 sets each, in about 40 minutes. I like it because I work out in the morning before work so time matters to me. I can get through a lot of different exercises quickly. The wife uses it too in a more limites scale.

I see it more as a convenience than a necessity. You can do almost every exercise without it using dead weights but not nearly as quickly.

As for older folks I don't think it matters much.

This is the one we have. (http://www.bowflexhomegyms.com/bowflex_home_gyms_us/products/comparison/prdcd~115000/Bowflex+Ultimate+2+Home+Gym.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302040546&bmUID=1307454070916&gotoproduct=1&sku=115000&adID=DOFG2GFEED1&mr:trackingCode=7842FBC0-439F-DF11-907B-002219318F67&mr:referralID=NA&origin=pe&mr:adType=pe)

It has a pretty small footprint considering what you can do with it. But we had the luxury of turning an unused bedroom into a work out room so you need to think about where you're going to put it before considering any of the Bowflex series.

loochy
06-07-2011, 08:50 AM
Workout experts?

Any input?

Bowflex good for older folks?

For that kind of money you can buy a set of dumbbells and an adjustable bench which is a much much wiser investment.

luv
06-07-2011, 08:51 AM
Right now, I do the lat pull down and the leg press (among others things not mentioned in the OP). I know machines aren't the best, but they're something.

loochy
06-07-2011, 08:53 AM
Right now, I do the lat pull down and the leg press (among others things not mentioned in the OP). I know machines aren't the best, but they're something.

Like the article (and everyone else) said, do pull ups and squats instead. It's a much more productive investment of your time.

For the record, I actually don't think lat pulls or leg presses are bad, but people make them the cornerstones of their workouts instead of doing the more difficult compound movements. I think those exercises do have merit as complimentary exercises though.

Tytanium
06-07-2011, 09:26 AM
The Smith Machine is absolute garbage, yet 90% of people use it because they are scared to use a standard power rack.

The only legitimate use of a smith machine (or any machine, really) is if you're working through or rehabbing an injury and lack the stability/balance of strength to use free weights.

A lot of people do squats with poor form anyway(if at all) and think that they need the machine support to do them without falling over.

loochy
06-07-2011, 09:28 AM
The only legitimate use of a smith machine (or any machine, really) is if you're working through or rehabbing an injury and lack the stability/balance of strength to use free weights.

A lot of people do squats with poor form anyway(if at all) and think that they need the machine support to do them without falling over.

Yeah I have to LOL every time I see people using that to do squats and bench. It locks you into the weirdest unnatural motion possible. People don't realize that the weights are supposed to move in an arc type motion instead of straight up and down.

Inspector
06-07-2011, 09:33 AM
I'm 51 and have had my Bowflex for two years. I use it 5-6 times a week. It has held up very well, no breakdowns whatsoever.

You can change exercises very quickly. I do about 23 different exercises, 3 sets each, in about 40 minutes. I like it because I work out in the morning before work so time matters to me. I can get through a lot of different exercises quickly. The wife uses it too in a more limites scale.

I see it more as a convenience than a necessity. You can do almost every exercise without it using dead weights but not nearly as quickly.

As for older folks I don't think it matters much.

This is the one we have. (http://www.bowflexhomegyms.com/bowflex_home_gyms_us/products/comparison/prdcd~115000/Bowflex+Ultimate+2+Home+Gym.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302040546&bmUID=1307454070916&gotoproduct=1&sku=115000&adID=DOFG2GFEED1&mr:trackingCode=7842FBC0-439F-DF11-907B-002219318F67&mr:referralID=NA&origin=pe&mr:adType=pe)

It has a pretty small footprint considering what you can do with it. But we had the luxury of turning an unused bedroom into a work out room so you need to think about where you're going to put it before considering any of the Bowflex series.

Thanks - yeah I've had mine for a little over 2 years and I use it about like you, 5-6 times a week. I'm older than you and thought it would be a good way to get resistance without the fear of free weights. I hurt myself when I was young over doing free weights (not knowing what I was doing) and developed a fear of them. If only I had Big Daddy around back then to make me do it right.

I have 4 different routines using everything that's in the book plus a few more that I made up. I've been extremely pleased with the results and have been able to correct a problem that I had with my back. I just rotate, A day, B day, C day, D day, then back to A day again....

I have the base (cheapest) model and find it does everything I need. Also good for my wife although she mainly just uses the eliptical for most of her exercise. We built a gym in our home.

Thanks for the input!

NewChief
06-07-2011, 09:35 AM
Yeah I have to LOL every time I see people using that to do squats and bench. It locks you into the weirdest unnatural motion possible. People don't realize that the weights are supposed to move in an arc type motion instead of straight up and down.

When I see people doing it on the Smith, it doesn't even look like squats. Their feet are planted like 2 feet in front of their shoulders, and they lean way back into the bar. It's bizarre and unnatural looking.

loochy
06-07-2011, 09:39 AM
When I see people doing it on the Smith, it doesn't even look like squats. Their feet are planted like 2 feet in front of their shoulders, and they lean way back into the bar. It's bizarre and unnatural looking.

Yeah that's what they do! When your feet are out in front like that you end up pushing backwards against the bar, which is locked into place and will not be moving. So then you are not actually pushing up against the weight and gravity, you are pushing against a machine that won't move. WTF?

Or sometimes they stand like they would for a normal squat, but then they proceed to squat down about 3 inches. Then they decide "well, that was easy" and they put on more weight and do the same. Like this:

http://www.drivelinebaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/smithmachine.jpg

loochy
06-07-2011, 09:43 AM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1004/3266634395_86150d6cb2.jpg

Omaha
06-07-2011, 09:55 AM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1004/3266634395_86150d6cb2.jpg

Like

loochy
06-07-2011, 10:00 AM
Like

I need to print this out and go stick it on the mirror in front of all the squat racks and smith machines in my gym.

Omaha
06-07-2011, 11:40 AM
I need to print this out and go stick it on the mirror in front of all the squat racks and smith machines in my gym.

Hang one at mine, too. Do it. Now. Thanks.

Detoxing
06-07-2011, 11:49 AM
Like the article (and everyone else) said, do pull ups and squats instead. It's a much more productive investment of your time.



But then again, not everyone can even do a pull up. Can u do a pull up, Luv?

NewChief
06-07-2011, 11:56 AM
But then again, not everyone can even do a pull up. Can u do a pull up, Luv?

She's at a gym, and most gyms have assisted pullup machines. If not, they probably have resistance bands that you can use for assistance (though if you're 100 lbs. overweight, the resistance bands might not be enough assistance).

loochy
06-07-2011, 11:59 AM
She's at a gym, and most gyms have assisted pullup machines. If not, they probably have resistance bands that you can use for assistance (though if you're 100 lbs. overweight, the resistance bands might not be enough assistance).

That is what I was thinking when I said that.

Or, you can have someone help you by pushing up on your feet as you pull.

BigCatDaddy
06-07-2011, 11:59 AM
The only legitimate use of a smith machine (or any machine, really) is if you're working through or rehabbing an injury and lack the stability/balance of strength to use free weights.

A lot of people do squats with poor form anyway(if at all) and think that they need the machine support to do them without falling over.

Yeah, there is a guy at my gym (in the link below) that lives on the Smith Machine and cable row machines. Do you think I should correct him? I'm pretty sure he isn't rehabbing.

http://briendawson.com

loochy
06-07-2011, 12:00 PM
Yeah, there is a guy at my gym that lives on the Smith Machine and cable row machines. Do you think I should correct him?

http://briendawson.com

I say only correct him if you are in obviously good shape and he will actually listen. I don't really correct anyone anymore because I don't feel like I look good enough to offer advice and be taken seriously.

BigCatDaddy
06-07-2011, 12:02 PM
I say only correct him if you are in obviously good shape and he will actually listen. I don't really correct anyone anymore because I don't feel like I look good enough to offer advice and be taken seriously.

LMAO. Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I guess my meter is a little off.

loochy
06-07-2011, 12:06 PM
LMAO. Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I guess my meter is a little off.

Oh...I can't see the link because it is blocked at work.

BigCatDaddy
06-07-2011, 12:08 PM
Oh...I can't see the link because it is blocked at work.

Here is a pic from his site.

TheGuardian
06-07-2011, 12:49 PM
This thread is weird.

I know LOTS of bodybuilders who live on machines. The fact is if you are just after hypertrophy your muscles only know tension, and that can come from free weights, machines, bands, chains, strongman implements, or anything else.

I have a friend who is pretty advanced and put on 20 pounds of lean mass over the last two years, which is insane for an advanced guy, and he gave up all free weights. He focused on squeezing the muscle against the resistance more than just moving weight.

The fact is, this is far better than just moving weight in terms of gaining muscular size. And that's coming from a big "move more weight" guy in myself who uses free weights almost exclusively. I know some guys that can move some tremendous weight that don't look like much. And I know some guys like look unreal that can't move that kind of weight (this doesn't mean those guys aren't strong, I've never met a heavyweight bodybuilder that couldn't move some weight if he wanted to).

I like the smith machine for front squats because my left shoulder has permanent AC joint separation. So if I use a barbell the weight leans and my left leg does more work, plus the balance is all off. Great way to get an IT band irritated. With the smith I can get it in a perfect spot and not worry about it.

I can generally knock out 18-20 perfect chins even at 260 pounds but I do use the pulldown machine about every other week or so. Why? Because too much chinning gets boring for me. And the fact is, mental stimulation is just as much a part of lifting as anything else. No motivation? Shitty workouts.

I love that hammer strength row machine better than any other row. I hate that my gym doesn't have one because I have to load up like 6 or 7 plates on the t-bar row.

I don't buy that pulldowns to the rear are harmful either. Even in this article it reads "unless you have very flexible shoulders". Here is the deal, if you can't do press behind the neck or pulldowns to the rear without pain, then you have some serious flexibility issues in your shoulders that need to be corrected. Those movements aren't dangerous if your RC's and shoulders are in good health. In fact those are two movements you can use to build shoulder flexibility. I routinely do 225 for medium to high reps (10-15) with a full deep ROM on press behind the neck with no problems. Again, this is with permenant AC joint sep.

The hyperextension is also a great machine and I use it all the time. In 22 years of this shit I've never met anyone who fucked themselves up from doing hypers.

Machines have a place in training. In fact, if you aren't competing in anything you can use machines to reach about any goal. Bodybuilders have used machines forever and have done so with great success.

I could easily list off 5 or 6 shitty ass barbell/dumbbell movements that suck major ass. This isn't a black or white issue.

Saulbadguy
06-07-2011, 12:51 PM
I never see the "big guys/muscle heads" on machines. Sometimes they will do the leg press machine but that's it.

Just an observation that probably means nothing.

morphius
06-07-2011, 01:08 PM
I have a machine at home, it was given to me. I do both 1, 2 and 4 on it, but as long as I don't push the weight too heavy on 2 and 4 there isn't an issue. But I really despise lunges and squats, and don't like going to gyms, so...

HemiEd
06-07-2011, 01:30 PM
Question, what exercises can I do to strengthen the knee area? All of the ones I was shown by the PT, were using the machines.

Silock
06-07-2011, 01:50 PM
Question, what exercises can I do to strengthen the knee area? All of the ones I was shown by the PT, were using the machines.

Stick with what your PT told you to do.

Silock
06-07-2011, 03:09 PM
The fact is if you are just after hypertrophy your muscles only know tension, and that can come from free weights, machines, bands, chains, strongman implements, or anything else.

Absolutely. Study after study has shown that you get the most muscle recruitment from movements that aren't restricted, as machine movements are.

I love that hammer strength row machine better than any other row.

I can't imagine a scenario where I prefer a machine row over a free weight row (at least not in terms of the main movement... accessory work, I could see).

The hyperextension is also a great machine and I use it all the time. In 22 years of this shit I've never met anyone who fucked themselves up from doing hypers.

It severely irritates my patellar tendinitis. While it isn't the cause, it certainly exacerbates the problem and makes it far worse than something like a traditional squat.

Machines have a place in training.

Absolutely! But I'd never use them as the foundation for a training regimen. That's a personal decision, but I also find that it's backed up by solid scientific evidence.

loochy
06-07-2011, 04:32 PM
It severely irritates my patellar tendinitis. While it isn't the cause, it certainly exacerbates the problem and makes it far worse than something like a traditional squat.

I don't think he's talking about leg extensions. He's talking about hyperextensions (exercise # 6 in the OP), which are the "reverse sit up" for your lower back, glutes, and hams. Kind of like a stiff legged deadlift for girls.

Silock
06-07-2011, 05:01 PM
Ah, you're right. I had leg extension stuck in my mind from the OP. My bad.