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Fritz88
04-15-2011, 04:01 PM
Background story. From the video uploader

"Here's the scene:

We were enjoying the nice spring weather from our balcony. A friend was visiting on his bike, and he rode up on the sidewalk from the street to our front door. In NYC this is illegal. You are supposed to stop in the street, get off the bike and walk it on the sidewalk. Although he was merely coming from the street up to our front door, those few second were illegal. NYPD rolls up and tickets him for this ($150 fine or appear in court!).

Meanwhile our neighbor walks by while this scene is unfolding. They exchange some banter. We all laughed. He keeps walking.

From there everything escalates... Seems completely unnecessary to me...

At the end of the day, he was charged with harassment, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

Welcome to an afternoon with the NYPD"

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qxjNVSCs_Lg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 04:08 PM
I'll be the first to admit it's a stupid law, and that NYPD has bigger fish to fry.

But ultimately, the moral of this story, and the countless others like it that get posted here?

Obey the law, mind your own business and you won't have a problem.

Fritz88
04-15-2011, 04:11 PM
I'll be the first to admit it's a stupid law, and that NYPD has bigger fish to fry.

But ultimately, the moral of this story, and the countless others like it that get posted here?

Obey the law, mind your own business and you won't have a problem.

Watch the entire video. It has little to do with the bicycle dude.

Chiefnj2
04-15-2011, 04:11 PM
You should have started yelling Attica, Attica.

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 04:16 PM
Watch the entire video. It has little to do with the bicycle dude.

I did watch the whole video.

If your dipshit neighbor would have:

a) Minded his own fucking business
b) Not mouthed off to the NYPD
c) Given his ID to NYPD one of the 20 fucking times he was asked

He likely wouldn't have had an issue.

chiefsnorth
04-15-2011, 04:18 PM
Who knew, being a smartass to the police doesn't usually help you.

blaise
04-15-2011, 04:20 PM
Yeah, cops don't appreciate friends and neighbors coming around and sticking their noses into the business.

Fritz88
04-15-2011, 04:23 PM
I did watch the whole video.

If your dipshit neighbor would have:

a) Minded his own ****ing business
b) Not mouthed off to the NYPD
c) Given his ID to NYPD one of the 20 ****ing times he was asked

He likely wouldn't have had an issue.

a) He is not my neighbor. Read my post carefully.
b) He did not mouth off to the police. He simply joked with the bike owner.
c) If you ask any cop, he would tell you that this is a clear abuse of power.
d) From a former law enforcement officer "Police officers MUST have probable cause and be able to interpret that probable cause before asking for your I.D".

Fritz88
04-15-2011, 04:24 PM
Who knew, being a smartass to the police doesn't usually help you.

Yeah, cops don't appreciate friends and neighbors coming around and sticking their noses into the business.


He did not play smart ass nor did he stick his nose into the cops' business.

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 04:25 PM
Meanwhile our neighbor walks by while this scene is unfolding. They exchange some banter. We all laughed. He keeps walking.

From there everything escalates... Seems completely unnecessary to me...

At the end of the day, he was charged with harassment, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

Sure implies that your neighbor was the retard that was arrested.

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 04:27 PM
And here we go.

Another thread where we're expected to feel sympathy for a dipshit that refuses to follow orders.

Again, had he kept his mouth shut and gave the cop his ID one of the first 20 times he asked, there's no issue.

Fritz88
04-15-2011, 04:31 PM
Sure implies that your neighbor was the retard that was arrested.

Did you even try to ****ing read my post? JFC

Background story. From the video uploader

"Here's the scene:

Dyslexia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia)

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-15-2011, 04:31 PM
And here we go.

Another thread where we're expected to feel sympathy for a dipshit that refuses to follow orders.

Again, had he kept his mouth shut and gave the cop his ID one of the first 20 times he asked, there's no issue.

Absolutely. Expect another 20 pages of argument otherwise though.

Pants
04-15-2011, 04:43 PM
And here we go.

Another thread where we're expected to feel sympathy for a dipshit that refuses to follow orders.

Again, had he kept his mouth shut and gave the cop his ID one of the first 20 times he asked, there's no issue.

I haven't watched the video yet, but:

So police should have the power to randomly come over to you and demand you show them your ID? I'm just curious what your stance about a citizen's rights is. Do we draw the line at IDing people without cause or should they have even more power than that?

Fire Me Boy!
04-15-2011, 04:44 PM
Wow, definitely abuse of power there. They had no right to ask for his ID or arrest him. I'd be pissed and resisting, too, if I was getting arrested for exercising my right to say something to someone else.

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 04:46 PM
And here we go.

Another thread where we're expected to feel sympathy for a dipshit that refuses to follow orders.

Again, had he kept his mouth shut and gave the cop his ID one of the first 20 times he asked, there's no issue.

Agreed.

But it doesn't change the fact that one of those cops was power tripping.

FAX
04-15-2011, 04:47 PM
Anyone who doesn't believe that the police in this country are out of control has never driven a white van, been pulled over for "impersonating an emergency vehicle", and had their face shoved in limestone gravel while a 300 pound donut-eater sits on the back of your head calling for backup.

Allow me to quote Martin Niemoller ...

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Needless to say, when they came for my van, Mr. OnTheWarpath58 didn't do a darn thing.

FAX

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 04:48 PM
Anyone who doesn't believe that the police in this country are out of control has never driven a white van, been pulled over for "impersonating an emergency vehicle", and had their face shoved in limestone gravel while a 300 pound donut-eater sits on the back of your head calling for backup.

Allow me to quote Martin Niemoller ...

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Needless to say, when they came for my van, Mr. OnTheWarpath58 didn't do a darn thing.

FAX

Yep. Cops power trip when ever they feel like it. It's nothing new.

Fire Me Boy!
04-15-2011, 04:50 PM
Yep. Cops power trip when ever they feel like it. It's nothing new.

By and large, it seems to me that many folks that go into law enforcement are bullies. They want to be a bully by trade.

Of course, that's a wide stereotype. Not all are like that. Far too many are.

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 04:52 PM
Agreed.

But it doesn't change the fact that one of those cops was power tripping.

And he gave them the chance by getting involved to begin with.

Why is it so fucking hard for people to mind their own fucking business?

When I see a guy getting a ticket, I walk on by and mind my own business.

Call me crazy.

FAX
04-15-2011, 04:53 PM
By and large, it seems to me that many folks that go into law enforcement are bullies. They want to be a bully by trade.

Of course, that's a wide stereotype. Not all are like that. Far too many are.

It's a strange culture. I had the opportunity to get to know one of our local police officers before, during, and after he applied as a local metro cop.

He changed. A lot. Not after he hit the streets, though. Almost immediately after he graduated from the academy. At first, I thought it might have been the taser training where they taze (sp?) each other and maybe his brain got fried a little. Then, I changed my mind. He was assimilated into their bizarre culture of brutal power and abuse.

FAX

Saulbadguy
04-15-2011, 04:53 PM
The only good cop is a dead cop.

edit: ;)

-King-
04-15-2011, 04:53 PM
I haven't watched the video yet, but:

So police should have the power to randomly come over to you and demand you show them your ID? I'm just curious what your stance about a citizen's rights is. Do we draw the line at IDing people without cause or should they have even more power than that?

Whoa Whoa whoa! It's the police. We're supposed to respect them and obey all their requests because they are far superior than us. You know how many years of school and how much training they had to endure to get where they are? They demand respect!

/sarcasm.

Pants
04-15-2011, 04:53 PM
And he gave them the chance by getting involved to begin with.

How so? Once again, I haven't seen the video yet, but did he interject or did he start talking to the neighbor after the ticket had been dispensed?

FAX
04-15-2011, 04:54 PM
And he gave them the chance by getting involved to begin with.

Why is it so ****ing hard for people to mind their own ****ing business?

When I see a guy getting a ticket, I walk on by and mind my own business.

Call me crazy.

When they come for you, I hope and trust that total strangers will come to your aid, Mr. OnTheWarpath58.

For my part, I shall send you a bar of soap and some snack cakes.

FAX

-King-
04-15-2011, 04:58 PM
How so? Once again, I haven't seen the video yet, but did he interject or did he start talking to the neighbor after the ticket had been dispensed?

He was just talking to the guy on the bike joking with him about riding on the sidewalk. Then the cop jumps in...and long story short, guy is arrested.

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 04:59 PM
And he gave them the chance by getting involved to begin with.

Why is it so ****ing hard for people to mind their own ****ing business?

When I see a guy getting a ticket, I walk on by and mind my own business.

Call me crazy.

Right.

But the cop was still being a dick. He helped to esculate the situation. The citizen was in the wrong, but that cop is supposed to be trained to handle situations like that. He was clearly making the issue worse with his tone, demeanor and approach.

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 05:00 PM
When they come for you, I hope and trust that total strangers will come to your aid, Mr. OnTheWarpath58.

For my part, I shall send you a bar of soap and some snack cakes.

FAX

Not necessary, Mr. FAX.

I avoid trouble, not go looking for it.

ChiTown
04-15-2011, 05:03 PM
The only good cop is a dead cop.

edit: ;)

Dude, not cool, even with wink. I got a shit-ton of family that are/were cops. What a thankless, fuggin low-paying, job.

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 05:04 PM
Not necessary, Mr. FAX.

I avoid trouble, not go looking for it.

Except he was talking to the friend not the cop. He wasn't looking for trouble. The cop came at the guy wrong.

Guy gets defensive because he's feeling attacked. Situation goes down hill from there.

Just Passin' By
04-15-2011, 05:04 PM
Not necessary, Mr. FAX.

I avoid trouble, not go looking for it.

As we see time and again, the police are often more than happy to bring trouble to you whether you're looking for it or not.

blaise
04-15-2011, 05:04 PM
He did not play smart ass nor did he stick his nose into the cops' business.

He said something to them, didn't he? It's just best not to say anything to cops when they're doing something with someone else.

Pants
04-15-2011, 05:04 PM
Not necessary, Mr. FAX.

I avoid trouble, not go looking for it.

So joking with your neighbor about him getting a ticket = looking for trouble? How exactly is that trouble? Do you also think FAX was looking for trouble by driving his white van? You're blowing my mind, man.

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 05:05 PM
He said something to them, didn't he? It's just best not to say anything to cops when they're doing something with someone else.

Pretty sure he was initially talking to the bike rider, not the cop.

blaise
04-15-2011, 05:07 PM
Pretty sure he was initially talking to the bike rider, not the cop.

Either way, I'm just saying it's best to not even involve yourself in the equation. I don't care if the cop is power tripping or not. If you don't want to get involved in the situation, just walk on by and keep your mouth shut.

-King-
04-15-2011, 05:09 PM
Either way, I'm just saying it's best to not even involve yourself in the equation. I don't care if the cop is power tripping or not. If you don't want to get involved in the situation, just walk on by and keep your mouth shut.

Why? If it's your neighbor and he's getting ticketed for a BS law, why not joke around or talk about it?

That's like if a driver is going 4 miles over, he gets pulled over and ticketed, but the officer also tickets the passenger because they were talking while he was writing up the speeding ticket.

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 05:10 PM
Either way, I'm just saying it's best to not even involve yourself in the equation. I don't care if the cop is power tripping or not. If you don't want to get involved in the situation, just walk on by and keep your mouth shut.

No doubt.

Still doesn't change the fact the cop was power tripping though. The guy didn't initially do anything wrong.

Pants
04-15-2011, 05:11 PM
Either way, I'm just saying it's best to not even involve yourself in the equation. I don't care if the cop is power tripping or not. If you don't want to get involved in the situation, just walk on by and keep your mouth shut.

I think our point here is that it should not be the case. You're not hurting anybody by joking with your neighbor about the ticket he just got. It's not a crime and the cop has no right to question you about anything. If the neighbor had interjected and was preventing the cop from doing his job, then it's a different story.

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 05:13 PM
:40 mark. Cop, still in van, tells the guy to mind his own business.

Maybe I'm crazy, but at that point, I walk away.

I sure as hell don't mouth off, "I wasn't even talking to you, man".

Most normal people either say nothing and walk off, or say, "no problem here" and get the fuck out.

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 05:16 PM
:40 mark. Cop, still in van, tells the guy to mind his own business.

Maybe I'm crazy, but at that point, I walk away.

I sure as hell don't mouth off, "I wasn't even talking to you, man".

Most normal people either say nothing and walk off, or say, "no problem here" and get the **** out.

Cop never should have said that. Not the cop's place.

Pants
04-15-2011, 05:16 PM
:40 mark. Cop, still in van, tells the guy to mind his own business.

Maybe I'm crazy, but at that point, I walk away.

I sure as hell don't mouth off, "I wasn't even talking to you, man".

Most normal people either say nothing and walk off, or say, "no problem here" and get the **** out.

I don't give a **** what a "normal" person would do, the cop has no ****ing right to do anything to the guy after being told to **** off in a polite way.

If a cop comes up to you and asks if you know the time and you tell him to "**** off" he has no more right to do anything to you than any other person on the street. Yeah, you're being a huge dick and that's on you, but it doesn't mean the cop can start questioning you. I mean, we're talking about the United States of America here, right? Jesus Christ.

-King-
04-15-2011, 05:16 PM
:40 mark. Cop, still in van, tells the guy to mind his own business.

Maybe I'm crazy, but at that point, I walk away.

I sure as hell don't mouth off, "I wasn't even talking to you, man".

Most normal people either say nothing and walk off, or say, "no problem here" and get the fuck out.

Why?

If you're doing nothing wrong, why should a cop be able to tell you what to do?

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 05:19 PM
:40 mark. Cop, still in van, tells the guy to mind his own business.

Maybe I'm crazy, but at that point, I walk away.

I sure as hell don't mouth off, "I wasn't even talking to you, man".

Most normal people either say nothing and walk off, or say, "no problem here" and get the **** out.

I get what you're saying dude, and because of the shitty way the system is, "walking away" is the best thing to do in order to avoid trouble.

But it doesn't make it right. It's complete BS actually. You're basically saying we have to give up our rights because some cop is power tripping.

Not cool at all.

Brock
04-15-2011, 05:20 PM
Gun toting thugs vs. powerless citizen again.

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 05:25 PM
I get what you're saying dude, and because of the shitty way the system is, "walking away" is the best thing to do in order to avoid trouble.

But it doesn't make it right. It's complete BS actually. You're basically saying we have to give up our rights because some cop is power tripping.

Not cool at all.

And I'm not claiming it's right.

I'm just saying that the dipshit could have avoided all of this by walking away when he was told to mind his own business, or again one of the 20 times he was asked for ID.

Instead, he kept pushing his luck, and took a trip downtown for it.

Pants
04-15-2011, 05:26 PM
And I'm not claiming it's right.

I'm just saying that the dipshit could have avoided all of this by walking away when he was told to mind his own business, or again one of the 20 times he was asked for ID.

Instead, he kept pushing his luck, and took a trip downtown for it.

:facepalm:

Detoxing
04-15-2011, 05:27 PM
And I'm not claiming it's right.

I'm just saying that the dipshit could have avoided all of this by walking away when he was told to mind his own business, or again one of the 20 times he was asked for ID.

Instead, he kept pushing his luck, and took a trip downtown for it.

I think we're dancing in circles here.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-15-2011, 05:27 PM
And I'm not claiming it's right.

I'm just saying that the dipshit could have avoided all of this by walking away when he was told to mind his own business, or again one of the 20 times he was asked for ID.

Instead, he kept pushing his luck, and took a trip downtown and recieved 10 lashes for it.

FYP

Brock
04-15-2011, 05:28 PM
And I'm not claiming it's right.

I'm just saying that the dipshit could have avoided all of this by walking away when he was told to mind his own business, or again one of the 20 times he was asked for ID.

Instead, he kept pushing his luck, and took a trip downtown for it.

Sure, and the cop could have acted like a professional, but that ain't what happened.

Chiefnj2
04-15-2011, 05:34 PM
:40 mark. Cop, still in van, tells the guy to mind his own business.

Maybe I'm crazy, but at that point, I walk away.

I sure as hell don't mouth off, "I wasn't even talking to you, man".

Most normal people either say nothing and walk off, or say, "no problem here" and get the **** out.

It IS NOT ILLEGAL to tell a police officer that you are not talking to him.

Get it??

Paniero
04-15-2011, 05:41 PM
NYPD is the biggest gang in the world. You talk shit to them, expect trouble. They aren't your Overland Park type of tough guy cop, either. The elite laugh at them, they get paid little, they deal with the worst, from the dirtiest smelliest bastard on the subway to the Brooklyn Hassidics who think NYC law is below them.

The badge is all they have in a city that hates them, and the more years you have on the job, the more you hate the city back. You attempt to degrade their authority in any manner, you invite trouble. 40k cops, 8 million people.

OnTheWarpath58
04-15-2011, 05:44 PM
It IS NOT ILLEGAL to tell a police officer that you are not talking to him.

Get it??

I never claimed otherwise, douche.

Chocolate Hog
04-15-2011, 05:47 PM
Remember that time the NYPD shot that black dude 40 times? Fuck them.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-15-2011, 05:48 PM
Sometimes....


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wlTvWvfEMxE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Chocolate Hog
04-16-2011, 02:39 PM
Interestingly enough the guy the NYPD shot at 50 times was Frank Haiths nephew according to Wikipedia.

pr_capone
04-16-2011, 04:34 PM
:40 mark. Cop, still in van, tells the guy to mind his own business.

Maybe I'm crazy, but at that point, I walk away.

I sure as hell don't mouth off, "I wasn't even talking to you, man".

Most normal people either say nothing and walk off, or say, "no problem here" and get the fuck out.

You would thrive in an Orwellian society.

crazycoffey
04-16-2011, 04:41 PM
a) He is not my neighbor. Read my post carefully.
b) He did not mouth off to the police. He simply joked with the bike owner.
c) If you ask any cop, he would tell you that this is a clear abuse of power.
d) From a former law enforcement officer "Police officers MUST have probable cause and be able to interpret that probable cause before asking for your I.D".

actually it's "reasonable suspicion"

crazycoffey
04-16-2011, 04:59 PM
there's got to be more to this story, maybe it's different in NY but the only way I see arresting that guy in that scenario is if he has a warrant out for his arrest, I've dealt with him before (so I knew who he was and new about the warrant), and decided to play the warrant card.

but at the end of the day, why fuck with the cop there, what does it prove?

Valiant
04-16-2011, 05:19 PM
Anyone who doesn't believe that the police in this country are out of control has never driven a white van, been pulled over for "impersonating an emergency vehicle", and had their face shoved in limestone gravel while a 300 pound donut-eater sits on the back of your head calling for backup.

Allow me to quote Martin Niemoller ...

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Needless to say, when they came for my van, Mr. OnTheWarpath58 didn't do a darn thing.

FAX

Yeah, I going home last night after eating dinner and the SUV next to me had KC Protection Unit LLC on its tinted windows.. Sheriff Star on the door and a police badge on the back window.. I have no idea how they have not been busted for that yet..

DJ's left nut
04-16-2011, 05:22 PM
I'm on my phone and don't feel like getting too detailed, but for all the "the cops can't demand to see your ID" people, please read the Hiibel case before dispensing legal advice. In the vast majority of cases, yes they can.

KCrockaholic
04-16-2011, 05:32 PM
Let's be honest here. If the black guy hadn't been so worried about "looking bad" nothing would have happened. He didn't want his street cred to be tarnished, so he copped an attitude with the officers when they asked him to cool it with the harassment. Most normal people wouldn't have been that immature in the first place. Just the way I see it.

Actually, the funny thing is, if all the officers were white this would have been a racist issue. But since a couple of the officers were black race isn't an issue in this one based on the way people think. That's a fact.

Valiant
04-16-2011, 05:35 PM
there's got to be more to this story, maybe it's different in NY but the only way I see arresting that guy in that scenario is if he has a warrant out for his arrest, I've dealt with him before (so I knew who he was and new about the warrant), and decided to play the warrant card.

but at the end of the day, why **** with the cop there, what does it prove?

But wouldn't of been more of 'Hey dave.. thanks for running your trap and reminding me you have been in trouble before.."

Not..

Seems the guy was videotaping his buddy getting a ticket. Black man cracks a joke with the guy getting a ticket and the dude back with him.

Cop gets pissed, tells him to mind his business.

Guy responds with I am not talking to you.

Cop comes out of the van wanting his id, They have no reason to ask for his id. It blows up from there. And luckily all caught on tape. I am sure this will make its rounds to major news media soon next week.

Cops will have to take sensitivity training or the such.. Hopefully they did not make up charges and actually arrest him for something..

Give props to the one white cop that was trying to get the ladies to calm down and quit yelling or there might have been more arrests..

Valiant
04-16-2011, 05:37 PM
Let's be honest here. If the black guy hadn't been so worried about "looking bad" nothing would have happened. He didn't want his street cred to be tarnished, so he copped an attitude with the officers when they asked him to cool it with the harassment. Most normal people wouldn't have been that immature in the first place. Just the way I see it.

Actually, the funny thing is, if all the officers were white this would have been a racist issue. But since a couple of the officers were black race isn't an issue in this one based on the way people think. That's a fact.

But that is the issue, he was not harassing anyone.. He was joking with the guy and the guy joking back..

Demonpenz
04-16-2011, 05:39 PM
I kinda laugh at people from Fucking Overland Park knowing anything about New York. other than having seen it on tv.

-King-
04-16-2011, 05:43 PM
Let's be honest here. If the black guy hadn't been so worried about "looking bad" nothing would have happened. He didn't want his street cred to be tarnished, so he copped an attitude with the officers when they asked him to cool it with the harassment. Most normal people wouldn't have been that immature in the first place. Just the way I see it.

Wait....what? How the fuck did you get that from this video? Have you talked to "the black guy"? What do you know about his street cred?

You mean that since he didn't want to be arrested for NOT doing anything illegal, he must have some street cred to uphold?
Posted via Mobile Device

Just Passin' By
04-16-2011, 05:46 PM
I'm on my phone and don't feel like getting too detailed, but for all the "the cops can't demand to see your ID" people, please read the Hiibel case before dispensing legal advice. In the vast majority of cases, yes they can.

The officer needs reasonable suspicion.

KCrockaholic
04-16-2011, 06:25 PM
Wait....what? How the **** did you get that from this video? Have you talked to "the black guy"? What do you know about his street cred?

You mean that since he didn't want to be arrested for NOT doing anything illegal, he must have some street cred to uphold?
Posted via Mobile Device

Just my assumptions, there's no other reason to start a confrontation with an officer. Like I said, a normal person would just be like 'whatever' to himself, and keep his mouth shut. If he had a brain he would have at least played it off until the officer left, then maybe continue on with his smart ass remarks with the guy on the bike. But he didn't want to look bad in front of his peers.

I'm not saying the police weren't abusing their power, because they were. What they did was also unreasonable. But the black guy was just asking for problems by reacting the way he did. Act more professional, and the police will leave you alone. That's all there is to it.

And BTW because he was on a public sidewalk, the police did have the right to ask to see an I.D...Because he didn't want to it was failure to comply with the police department.

FAX
04-16-2011, 06:35 PM
Just my assumptions, there's no other reason to start a confrontation with an officer. Like I said, a normal person would just be like 'whatever' to himself, and keep his mouth shut. If he had a brain he would have at least played it off until the officer left, then maybe continue on with his smart ass remarks with the guy on the bike. But he didn't want to look bad in front of his peers.

I'm not saying the police weren't abusing their power, because they were. What they did was also unreasonable. But the black guy was just asking for problems by reacting the way he did. Act more professional, and the police will leave you alone. That's all there is to it.

The way I see it, people sometimes just get tired of allowing the police to run roughshod all over the citizenry. This isn't about a bank robbery or a rape or a murder or break-in or some girl stealing another girl's diary and posting the sordid details of her passionate evenings with Gary The Half-Mule Half-Man Man on her facebook page. This is about a guy who is ... talking.

It amazes me that people can justify a situation like this by simply advising people to "walk away". That's how disco got started.

FAX

Al Bundy
04-16-2011, 06:43 PM
And here we go.

Another thread where we're expected to feel sympathy for a dipshit that refuses to follow orders.

Again, had he kept his mouth shut and gave the cop his ID one of the first 20 times he asked, there's no issue.

Cop had no reason to ask him for his ID.

-King-
04-16-2011, 07:11 PM
Just my assumptions, there's no other reason to start a confrontation with an officer. Like I said, a normal person would just be like 'whatever' to himself, and keep his mouth shut. If he had a brain he would have at least played it off until the officer left, then maybe continue on with his smart ass remarks with the guy on the bike. But he didn't want to look bad in front of his peers.

I'm not saying the police weren't abusing their power, because they were. What they did was also unreasonable. But the black guy was just asking for problems by reacting the way he did. Act more professional, and the police will leave you alone. That's all there is to it. If the police would act more professional, a non issue would stay a non issue.

And BTW because he was on a public sidewalk, the police did have the right to ask to see an I.D...Because he didn't want to it was failure to comply with the police department. Just because you're on a public sidewalk doesn't give police the right to anything unless they have reasonable suspicion.

KCrockaholic
04-16-2011, 07:15 PM
If the police would act more professional, a non issue would stay a non issue.

Just because you're on a public sidewalk doesn't give police the right to anything unless they have reasonable suspicion.

A police officer may ask a citizen for identification and use the information garnered from the request, even if the officer has no reasonable cause to suspect that a crime has been committed, according to a ruling from the Sixth Circuit on Thursday. Generally police officers are allowed to demand identification (or that a person identify themselves) and pat a person down if they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur — a situation known as a Terry stop. Police generally are not allowed to demand to show identification, but the court ruled that police using language such as “I would like to see some identification” are simply requesting identification, not demanding it.

This is from an article discussing the court ruling in 2007.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/05/appeals_court_r/

Basically, don't monkey around and just comply with the police department and no harm will be done. If the guy had just complied, and shown his I.D. the police would have left him alone because there would be no point in doing anything further.

And also, most cities have their own laws. I don't know the NYC laws entirely, but based on the common law, I would assume NYC is either the same, or possibly even more strict.

Valiant
04-16-2011, 07:22 PM
A police officer may ask a citizen for identification and use the information garnered from the request, even if the officer has no reasonable cause to suspect that a crime has been committed, according to a ruling from the Sixth Circuit on Thursday. Generally police officers are allowed to demand identification (or that a person identify themselves) and pat a person down if they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur — a situation known as a Terry stop. Police generally are not allowed to demand to show identification, but the court ruled that police using language such as “I would like to see some identification” are simply requesting identification, not demanding it.


Even with that, what crime did the police officer think happened or was about to happen with the man??

KCrockaholic
04-16-2011, 07:24 PM
A police officer may ask a citizen for identification and use the information garnered from the request, even if the officer has no reasonable cause to suspect that a crime has been committed, according to a ruling from the Sixth Circuit on Thursday. Generally police officers are allowed to demand identification (or that a person identify themselves) and pat a person down if they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur — a situation known as a Terry stop. Police generally are not allowed to demand to show identification, but the court ruled that police using language such as “I would like to see some identification” are simply requesting identification, not demanding it.


Even with that, what crime did the police officer think happened or was about to happen with the man??

Did you read the rest of it? Like this part... Police generally are not allowed to demand to show identification, but the court ruled that police using language such as “I would like to see some identification” are simply requesting identification, not demanding it.

Meaning, the officer doesn't need suspicion of anything to ask for I.D.

And because the man did not comply the first time, it gave the police suspicion to take further action. See the way that works? It ain't exactly fair, and that's why I'm not entirely behind what the police did in this situation.

BigRedChief
04-16-2011, 07:25 PM
:40 mark. Cop, still in van, tells the guy to mind his own business.

Maybe I'm crazy, but at that point, I walk away.

I sure as hell don't mouth off, "I wasn't even talking to you, man".

Most normal people either say nothing and walk off, or say, "no problem here" and get the fuck out.You mess with the bull you get the horns.

Are there power tripping cops? Dishonest cops? Of course. That doesn't mean you get to disrespect the badge and not put yourself in a position to have something negative happen to you.

A cop tells you to mind your own business and you don't......your day might be soon ruined.

dirk digler
04-16-2011, 07:43 PM
there's got to be more to this story, maybe it's different in NY but the only way I see arresting that guy in that scenario is if he has a warrant out for his arrest, I've dealt with him before (so I knew who he was and new about the warrant), and decided to play the warrant card.

but at the end of the day, why fuck with the cop there, what does it prove?

I wouldn't have said anything back to the guy joking around but regardless once they ask for his id and he starts mouthing off and not giving his id then he is going to get arrested. And his friend in the red shirt is lucky he didn't get arrested either.

-King-
04-16-2011, 07:52 PM
Did you read the rest of it? Like this part...

Meaning, the officer doesn't need suspicion of anything to ask for I.D.

And because the man did not comply the first time, it gave the police suspicion to take further action. See the way that works? It ain't exactly fair, and that's why I'm not entirely behind what the police did in this situation.

So if they have the right to REQUEST it, a citizen has a right to deny the request.

KCrockaholic
04-16-2011, 08:00 PM
So if they have the right to REQUEST it, a citizen has a right to deny the request.

That's correct, and because he denied, the police then had suspicion that he could be hiding something. That's the why I say the police abused their power, but the main guy was still an idiot for not complying in the first place.

-King-
04-16-2011, 08:10 PM
That's correct, and because he denied, the police then had suspicion that he could be hiding something. That's the why I say the police abused their power, but the main guy was still an idiot for not complying in the first place.


What kind of backwards ass shit is that? So whats the point of warrants? So if a cop asked to search your house, and you say no...that gives them enough suspicion to search it?

Whats the point of even requesting it if they have the right to take it no matter the answer? Might as well take it?

So basically, citizens have NO rights huh?

KCrockaholic
04-16-2011, 08:18 PM
Its not fucked up. What kind of backwards ass shit is that? So whats the point of warrants? So if a cop asked to search your house, and you say no...that gives them enough suspicion to search it?

Whats the point of even requesting it if they have the right to take it no matter the answer? Might as well take it?

So basically, citizens have NO rights huh?

im not saying saying its not fucked up. But its the police's way of abusing their power because they can.

KCrockaholic
04-16-2011, 08:20 PM
God dammit...... I'm on my phone.....forget that first sentence.

BigRock
04-16-2011, 08:32 PM
What kind of backwards ass shit is that? So whats the point of warrants? So if a cop asked to search your house, and you say no...that gives them enough suspicion to search it?

The ID ruling has nothing to do with search warrants.

BigRedChief
04-16-2011, 08:32 PM
So basically, citizens have NO rights huh?Welcome to the real world. We have more freedom than any other country that has ever existed in history. But, that doesn't mean you are an island unto yourself. We have all decided on certain rules that we must all follow. If a cop asks for an ID and you refuse...prepare to have a bad day.

dirk digler
04-16-2011, 08:44 PM
That's correct, and because he denied, the police then had suspicion that he could be hiding something. That's the why I say the police abused their power, but the main guy was still an idiot for not complying in the first place.

That is not correct...actually it depends on what state you live. Several states require you to provide id. NY give police the right to ask anywhere and the person has to give them their name, address etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

Just Passin' By
04-16-2011, 09:03 PM
That's correct, and because he denied, the police then had suspicion that he could be hiding something. That's the why I say the police abused their power, but the main guy was still an idiot for not complying in the first place.

Refusal to produce something when one is not required to is not sufficient grounds for reasonable suspicion.

-King-
04-16-2011, 09:04 PM
That is not correct...actually it depends on what state you live. Several states require you to provide id. NY give police the right to ask anywhere and the person has to give them their name, address etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes



weapons. 1. In addition to the authority provided by this article for making an arrest without a warrant, a police officer may stop a person in a public place located within the geographical area of such officer's employment when he reasonably suspects that such person is committing, has committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct.

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/criminal-procedure/CPL0140.50_140.50.html
</pre>

Baby Lee
04-17-2011, 12:23 AM
That's correct, and because he denied, the police then had suspicion that he could be hiding something. That's the why I say the police abused their power, but the main guy was still an idiot for not complying in the first place.

Bullshit. That line of reasoning eviscerates the 4th and 5th amendments.

Can anyone inform me what provision of identification in a situation such as this accomplishes from a L&O perspective?

Were the police on alert for a wisecracking miscreant posing danger to the citizenry?

BOLO, black male, known to crack on neighbors who bicycle on sidewalks, precipitating a murderous rampage.

Was the ID being requested a city-issued 'license to heckle cyclists' which would have made his actions legal?

Baby Lee
04-17-2011, 12:28 AM
The ID ruling has nothing to do with search warrants.

Ascertaining someone's identity is fungible with ascertaining the contents of their home or automobile, under the Constitution.

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 02:42 AM
I wouldn't have said anything back to the guy joking around but regardless once they ask for his id and he starts mouthing off and not giving his id then he is going to get arrested. And his friend in the red shirt is lucky he didn't get arrested either.

I thought the same about the red shirt guy.

What kind of backwards ass shit is that? So whats the point of warrants? So if a cop asked to search your house, and you say no...that gives them enough suspicion to search it?

Whats the point of even requesting it if they have the right to take it no matter the answer? Might as well take it?

So basically, citizens have NO rights huh?

citizens have the right to not be dickheaded antagonists or criminals, this is not the case here....

-King-
04-17-2011, 03:12 AM
I thought the same about the red shirt guy.



citizens have the right to not be dickheaded antagonists or criminals, this is not the case here....

So do the police. Police also have to obey the law which states...

1. In addition to the authority provided by this article for making an arrest without a warrant, a police officer may stop a person in a public place located within the geographical area of such officer's employment when he reasonably suspects that such person is committing, has committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct.

What felony or misdemeanor was he committing?

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 03:24 AM
So do the police. Police also have to obey the law which states...



What felony or misdemeanor was he committing?

maybe they thought he was about to jaywalk, that's a misdemeanor...
Look, I'm sorry you don't like the way it is, but the rights of police to ask you to identify yourself has already been upheld in court as NOT violating your rights.

Personally, I don't let smart asses bother me, I need a complainant other than me for just about any misdemeanor, like noise complaints, dogs not on a leash, public peace disturbance. But just because it's not something I'm going to do doesn't make it illegal for another police officer to do.

Just Passin' By
04-17-2011, 03:33 AM
maybe they thought he was about to jaywalk, that's a misdemeanor...
Look, I'm sorry you don't like the way it is, but the rights of police to ask you to identify yourself has already been upheld in court as NOT violating your rights.

Personally, I don't let smart asses bother me, I need a complainant other than me for just about any misdemeanor, like noise complaints, dogs not on a leash, public peace disturbance. But just because it's not something I'm going to do doesn't make it illegal for another police officer to do.

In order for the police to be able to require you to identify yourself and have the force of law behind the request, they must first have reasonable suspicion and detain you (Terry stop). It is at that point that they may ask for identification (Hiibel).

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 03:35 AM
In order for the police to be able to require you to identify yourself under penalty of law, they must first have reasonable suspicion and detain you (Terry stop). It is at that point that they may ask for identification (Hiibel).


that's ok, you probably know more than I do about this. :facepalm:
You just explained what I explained and what happened in the video.

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 03:43 AM
plenty of reasonable suspicion;

"Move along", he doesn't.
"I wasn't talking to you"
Ok, lets question what's wrong with this guy, what's his motivation, I asked him to move along and mind his business and he walked back and got mouthy with me. I wonder if he's not mentally able to take care of himself due to mental illness, drugs/alcohol, or a desire to something stupid. he clearly doesn't like what I'm doing with this bike enforcement. I don't need this distraction, I'm going to see what's up
"hey, come here. Who are you?"

it's that fucking simple, really it is.

Just Passin' By
04-17-2011, 03:46 AM
plenty of reasonable suspicion;

"Move along", he doesn't.
"I wasn't talking to you"
Ok, lets question what's wrong with this guy, what's his motivation, I asked him to move along and mind his business and he walked back and got mouthy with me. I wonder if he's not mentally able to take care of himself due to mental illness, drugs/alcohol, or a desire to something stupid. he clearly doesn't like what I'm doing with this bike enforcement. I don't need this distraction, I'm going to see what's up
"hey, come here. Who are you?"

it's that fucking simple, really it is.

What you're claiming is reasonable suspicion here would not rise to such a level under current jurisprudence.

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 03:48 AM
What you're claiming is reasonable suspicion here would not rise to such a level under current jurisprudence.

It is enough to ask for an ID, I promise.

Just Passin' By
04-17-2011, 03:52 AM
It is enough to ask for an ID, I promise.

It's not enough to ask for an ID and have the force of law behind the request.

-King-
04-17-2011, 03:54 AM
maybe they thought he was about to jaywalk, that's a misdemeanor...
Look, I'm sorry you don't like the way it is, but the rights of police to ask you to identify yourself has already been upheld in court as NOT violating your rights.

Personally, I don't let smart asses bother me, I need a complainant other than me for just about any misdemeanor, like noise complaints, dogs not on a leash, public peace disturbance. But just because it's not something I'm going to do doesn't make it illegal for another police officer to do.

ROFL What bullshit.

-King-
04-17-2011, 03:59 AM
So basically, he has to give up his ID because the cop thought he was going to jaywalk? ROFL ROFL

Just Passin' By
04-17-2011, 04:04 AM
So basically, he has to give up his ID because the cop thought he was going to jaywalk? ROFL ROFL

CC is on to something, because it's relatively easy for a policeman to make something up and have the court buy it as reasonable suspicion. In the case at hand, however, the police had nothing to go on. That was just a case of cops playing the bully. Unfortunately for the police, this was recorded.

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 04:07 AM
It's not enough to ask for an ID and have the force of law behind the request.

I'll concede this point in this manner; All states are different, if you feel you are being singled out or mistreated by the police you have every right to go to the police station and complain, or to a judge. You do not have the right to argue your opinions at that exact moment in front of the officer, that would actually be counter productive to your case.

I stand by my opinion and understanding of the law...


ROFL What bullshit.

if you couldn't tell that was sarcasm then I can't talk to you.

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 04:10 AM
CC is on to something, because it's relatively easy for a policeman to make something up and have the court buy it as reasonable suspicion. In the case at hand, however, the police had nothing to go on. That was just a case of cops playing the bully. Unfortunately for the police, this was recorded.


why not just move along, why does society now want to go from "question to question" to now more acceptable "be an ass to be an ass"? I can understand question authority, but I can't understand, "I'm going to record myself being an ass to this cop and hope I get my 15 seconds of fame from it"

It's just fucking stupid.

Just Passin' By
04-17-2011, 04:16 AM
I'll concede this point in this manner; All states are different, if you feel you are being singled out or mistreated by the police you have every right to go to the police station and complain, or to a judge. You do not have the right to argue your opinions at that exact moment in front of the officer, that would actually be counter productive to your case.

I stand by my opinion and understanding of the law...

The Fourth Amendment is considered to be incorporated, meaning it applies to the states as well as the Fed. Furthermore, the states may not limit your Fourth amendment rights more than the Federal interpretation of the Fourth amendment calls for, although they can grant you broader protections. In this case, I know of no case law on your side regarding simply talking to a non-police officer and/or telling a policeman that you weren't talking to him.

And you do have the right to argue your opinion at that exact moment in front of the police officer.

Just Passin' By
04-17-2011, 04:18 AM
why not just move along, why does society now want to go from "question to question" to now more acceptable "be an ass to be an ass"? I can understand question authority, but I can't understand, "I'm going to record myself being an ass to this cop and hope I get my 15 seconds of fame from it"

It's just fucking stupid.

It's not stupid at all. The police were out of line, and you're trying to make the passerby out to be the problem here. You should ask yourself what has made you so willing to defend the police when they are violating the rights of citizens.

HMc
04-17-2011, 04:23 AM
why not just move along, why does society now want to go from "question to question" to now more acceptable "be an ass to be an ass"? I can understand question authority, but I can't understand, "I'm going to record myself being an ass to this cop and hope I get my 15 seconds of fame from it"

It's just ****ing stupid.

I think people like the idea, at least in a country so obsessed with the concept of freedom, that they can have a legal stroll down the street and shoot the shit with another person, even if that person is being written a ticket by the police at the time.

The same thing can happen here. Police aren't even fond of observers watching their street interrogations. "Move along" and all that. Sorry, but if you're going to create a spectacle in the street, I am going to watch it if I damn well please and you want to hope you carry out all actions by the book, otherwise I'd lodge a written complaint with the relevant police oversight body. If you want that in your file, good for you.

I have some sympathy for the difficulty of policework regarding people who are actually committing a crime or look like they may be, but dudes walking down the fucking street are a different story.

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 04:30 AM
Attention, for the kids at home; Do yourself a favor and look up the laws in your state and city. Make sure to research how your state views things like, "interfering with a police officer", "disorderly conduct" and "stop and ID" laws, they do differ in many states. Look at the wording, because that is what the whole judicial system uses when making and arguing cases. If you disagree with how it's going, your best fight is always going to be legal recourse and not "I read on the internet", "you're wrong, he's not drunk" or "you can't touch me" etc.

Just passing by is saying much truth about the constitution and it's theory, but the constitution is not legal code and is not used in making arrests or writing tickets.

crazycoffey
04-17-2011, 04:36 AM
there's got to be more to this story, maybe it's different in NY but the only way I see arresting that guy in that scenario is if he has a warrant out for his arrest, I've dealt with him before (so I knew who he was and new about the warrant), and decided to play the warrant card.

but at the end of the day, why fuck with the cop there, what does it prove?

I still say this, good night planet...

HMc
04-17-2011, 05:10 AM
Attention, for the kids at home; Do yourself a favor and look up the laws in your state and city. Make sure to research how your state views things like, "interfering with a police officer", "disorderly conduct" and "stop and ID" laws, they do differ in many states. Look at the wording, because that is what the whole judicial system uses when making and arguing cases. If you disagree with how it's going, your best fight is always going to be legal recourse and not "I read on the internet", "you're wrong, he's not drunk" or "you can't touch me" etc.

Just passing by is saying much truth about the constitution and it's theory, but the constitution is not legal code and is not used in making arrests or writing tickets.

And you probably shouldn't be offering any kind of legal advice, either.

burt
04-17-2011, 09:03 AM
I am 50 years old. I have met good cops, meh cops and bad cops. They can be very irritating. Should the neighbor have continued walking and stfu? Yes. but he didn't. Should the cops have chilled? yes. but they didn't. This is how shit esculates.

After cops have been exposed to a great amount of shit, they do tend to get jaded and feel that they are superior to those they are supposed to serve and protect. Sucks, but it is what it is. That is why the neighbor should have kept walking. His arrest was stupid on his and the cops actions.

If my house is ever broken into, I will almost be afraid to call the police, because somehow....someway....I could end up in jail.

WilliamTheIrish
04-17-2011, 09:05 AM
I still say this, good night planet...

And you say it every damn time...

burt
04-17-2011, 09:06 AM
And you say it every damn time...

well..... most nights anyway.....

Count Alex's Losses
09-15-2011, 05:09 PM
<iframe width="460" height="320" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kV8tZpY7PCY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dylan
09-15-2011, 06:28 PM
Many people are surprised to learn that in New York State, you are not legally required to carry any form of identification at any time. That’s right--there is no law that says you need to have i.d. or show i.d. to a police officer. Officers who threaten to arrest you simply for not showing i.d. are trying to intimidate you.

Officers cannot arrest you just for not showing i.d. However, they might arrest you for a “cover charge,” such as disorderly conduct, if they do not like the way you refused their request. You should always report threats or false arrests like these to the Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB).

Nevertheless, it is best to to always carry identification with you. That way, you always have the option of showing i.d. when asked for it. More than that, it is a good idea to show i.d. when asked in order to avoid a confrontation with an officer that could be dangerous and/or lead to an arrest or summons. However, in all situations involving the police the most important thing is to stay calm and in control of your words and body. Also, say as little as possible because anything you say could lead to your arrest.


You can always visit www.nyclu.org to learn about the New York Civil Liberties Union’s work to defend every New Yorker’s right to be protected and respected by the New York Police Department.

Stay safe.

LiveSteam
09-15-2011, 06:35 PM
An afternoon with OMAHA PD. Female cop was canned or is about to be canned
This happened at Creighton Medical center.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/amrYSVpGRxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Donger
09-15-2011, 06:50 PM
An afternoon with OMAHA PD. Female cop was canned or is about to be canned
This happened at Creighton Medical center.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/amrYSVpGRxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

For those few kicks?

chasedude
09-15-2011, 07:02 PM
For those few kicks?

How many kicks do you think it should be before it crosses a line?

LiveSteam
09-15-2011, 07:06 PM
For those few kicks?

If that was you.Joe Shit Citizen. You would be facing charges of this & that,plus the use of a deadly weapon = your feet kicking someone in the head.

Dylan
09-15-2011, 11:44 PM
Hey #AttackWatch I would like to report the NYPD. 1/2 dozen policemen had to subdue a renegade bicyclist and chit-chatty pedestrian. May want to check that out.



https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23ATTACKWATCH

LiveSteam
09-16-2011, 07:42 AM
Hey daddy I wanna be a brutal dictator when I grow up.
Sorry son we live in America. But you can join Metro PD