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View Full Version : Economics My yearly rant..I'm tired of paying other taxes. We need a flat tax.


chris
04-16-2011, 11:41 AM
I vent about this every year on CP.

As a small business owner, I work 60, 80, 100 hour weeks. I create numerous high tech jobs.

I don't go to the Casinos to gamble. I do it every week with large amount of capital and resources.

I'm taxed to the max allowed by Congress.

I spend $10,000+ to experts to legally avoid paying taxes. We look for every angle.

Yet, every year I pay a ever larger amount to support others that haven't better themselves in the past year.

Yet, 47% don't pay income taxes.

All the lazy ass liberals will jump on me for saying this; but our system is broken. Why should I support your way of life?

We need a flat tax!!!

Mr. Flopnuts
04-16-2011, 12:13 PM
If you don't like the American way, you're free to try and make more somewhere else.

Stewie
04-16-2011, 12:22 PM
Sending your money to the Federal Government is an honor! Even those that don't pay a dime will tell you that!

Slainte
04-16-2011, 12:36 PM
Yet, 47% don't pay taxes.

A canard. If you spend anytime in the US, you pay taxes, period.

chris
04-16-2011, 12:43 PM
If you don't like the American way, you're free to try and make more somewhere else.

What a lame post. I keep reading that every year.

No, I keep working and bitching and make political $$ contributions to candidates who may be changing the system.

Hopefully, someday the broken progressive tax system that enables virtually half not to pay income taxes will be changed. And everyone will have to pay their fair share.

And to further address your weak post, I do know of others that are moving assets OUT of the USA as they strongly believe that the USA entitlement system is going to bankrupt the country. But that is the subject of a different thread.

chris
04-16-2011, 12:44 PM
A canard. If you spend anytime in the US, you pay taxes, period.

Income tax.

Thanks

Simplex3
04-16-2011, 12:49 PM
If you don't like the American way, you're free to try and make more somewhere else.

Under the American way it was illegal to tax income. We started it just to support a war effort, but really we'll stop as soon as it's over.

Or not.

KC native
04-16-2011, 12:56 PM
Move to Somalia then fuckstick.

chris
04-16-2011, 01:02 PM
Move to Somalia then ****stick.

What an intelligent response.

You must be one of the 47% that doesn't pay income tax; and sees that the eventual end of progressive tax system as a threat to your way of life???

A simple "thank you" would have sufficed.

Simplex3
04-16-2011, 01:04 PM
Move to Somalia then ****stick.

You want national health care?

Move to France (or Argentina or Brazil or Canada or Colombia or Greenland or Mexico or Peru or Trinidad and Tobago or Bhutan or Hong Kong or India or Israel or Macau or People's Republic of China or Singapore or Taiwan (R.O.C.) or Thailand or Denmark or Finland or Germany or Ireland or Italy or Netherlands or Russia or Serbia or Sweden or Switzerland or England or Northern Ireland or Scotland or Wales or Australia or New Zealand) then ****stick.

See how liberals also had choices of places to go, but instead chose to force the rest of the country to bend to their will? Yet you want to jump him for doing the exact same thing you did.

But don't worry: nobody noticed you being a hypocrite. It completely went under the radar.

RNR
04-16-2011, 01:08 PM
You want national health care?

Move to France (or Argentina or Brazil or Canada or Colombia or Greenland or Mexico or Peru or Trinidad and Tobago or Bhutan or Hong Kong or India or Israel or Macau or People's Republic of China or Singapore or Taiwan (R.O.C.) or Thailand or Denmark or Finland or Germany or Ireland or Italy or Netherlands or Russia or Serbia or Sweden or Switzerland or England or Northern Ireland or Scotland or Wales or Australia or New Zealand) then ****stick.

See how liberals also had choices of places to go, but instead chose to force the rest of the country to bend to their will? Yet you want to jump him for doing the exact same thing you did.

But don't worry: nobody noticed you being a hypocrite. It completely went under the radar.

LMAO

chris
04-16-2011, 01:11 PM
You want national health care?

Move to France (or Argentina or Brazil or Canada or Colombia or Greenland or Mexico or Peru or Trinidad and Tobago or Bhutan or Hong Kong or India or Israel or Macau or People's Republic of China or Singapore or Taiwan (R.O.C.) or Thailand or Denmark or Finland or Germany or Ireland or Italy or Netherlands or Russia or Serbia or Sweden or Switzerland or England or Northern Ireland or Scotland or Wales or Australia or New Zealand) then ****stick.

See how liberals also had choices of places to go, but instead chose to force the rest of the country to bend to their will? Yet you want to jump him for doing the exact same thing you did.

But don't worry: nobody noticed you being a hypocrite. It completely went under the radar.

Nice!!

Simplex3
04-16-2011, 01:16 PM
The real irony is that he's using the "don't change America" theme in defense of a practice that wasn't part of our country until 1861. Almost 100 years we managed to do without it.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-16-2011, 01:19 PM
Under the American way it was illegal to tax income. We started it just to support a war effort, but really we'll stop as soon as it's over.

Or not.

FTW! I'm surprised anyone else knew this.

mlyonsd
04-16-2011, 01:20 PM
I vent about this every year on CP.

As a small business owner, I work 60, 80, 100 hour weeks. I create numerous high tech jobs.

I don't go to the Casinos to gamble. I do it every week with large amount of capital and resources.

I'm taxed to the max allowed by Congress.

I spend $10,000+ to experts to legally avoid paying taxes. We look for every angle.

Yet, every year I pay a ever larger amount to support others that haven't better themselves in the past year.

Yet, 47% don't pay income taxes.

All the lazy ass liberals will jump on me for saying this; but our system is broken. Why should I support your way of life?

We need a flat tax!!!
Preach it bro.

Don't worry about ranting on this once a year.....I do it at least once a month.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-16-2011, 01:21 PM
Who needs national health care? It's the most expensive in the world and is ranked somewhere in the mid 40's for developed nations.

KC native
04-16-2011, 01:33 PM
You want national health care?

Move to France (or Argentina or Brazil or Canada or Colombia or Greenland or Mexico or Peru or Trinidad and Tobago or Bhutan or Hong Kong or India or Israel or Macau or People's Republic of China or Singapore or Taiwan (R.O.C.) or Thailand or Denmark or Finland or Germany or Ireland or Italy or Netherlands or Russia or Serbia or Sweden or Switzerland or England or Northern Ireland or Scotland or Wales or Australia or New Zealand) then ****stick.

See how liberals also had choices of places to go, but instead chose to force the rest of the country to bend to their will? Yet you want to jump him for doing the exact same thing you did.

But don't worry: nobody noticed you being a hypocrite. It completely went under the radar.

Color me not surprised a fucking retard like you would write something like this.

I'm for a single payor system of healthcare because right now we spend a tremendous amount of money on healthcare and get shitty results. It's about efficiency. Please find a post of mine about healthcare where I come of as a whiny bitch like chris. Also, I maintained that we should have a French style of single payor which contrary to your assertion isn't national health care. The government simply provides the basic amount of insurance and if citizens want more they can purchase it. Britain has national healthcare and it's not a system I endorse. I think America can have better results with less money. You apparently are fine with throwing away money and then bitching about the government throwing away money.

Taxes are necessary if you want to have a government. douchebag here benefits from a society where he can make money by providing him roads, the rule of law, and an effective payment system. If he doesn't want to pay taxes then he can move to somewhere where a government doesn't provide those things like Somalia.

KC native
04-16-2011, 01:35 PM
The real irony is that he's using the "don't change America" theme in defense of a practice that wasn't part of our country until 1861. Almost 100 years we managed to do without it.

No, I'm not. I'm not using any theme. There are things our country can do better and there are things that we don't need to change. Rewriting the tax code to be extremely regressive is stupid.

KC native
04-16-2011, 01:38 PM
What an intelligent response.

You must be one of the 47% that doesn't pay income tax; and sees that the eventual end of progressive tax system as a threat to your way of life???

A simple "thank you" would have sufficed.

It is an intelligent response to a retarded fucking thread. I love how you come on here and work so hard to say how great your life is but all you do is bitch. You are a fuckstick.

mlyonsd
04-16-2011, 01:41 PM
Color me not surprised a ****ing retard like you would write something like this.

I'm for a single payor system of healthcare because right now we spend a tremendous amount of money on healthcare and get shitty results. It's about efficiency. Please find a post of mine about healthcare where I come of as a whiny bitch like chris. Also, I maintained that we should have a French style of single payor which contrary to your assertion isn't national health care. The government simply provides the basic amount of insurance and if citizens want more they can purchase it. Britain has national healthcare and it's not a system I endorse. I think America can have better results with less money. You apparently are fine with throwing away money and then bitching about the government throwing away money.

Taxes are necessary if you want to have a government. douchebag here benefits from a society where he can make money by providing him roads, the rule of law, and an effective payment system. If he doesn't want to pay taxes then he can move to somewhere where a government doesn't provide those things like Somalia.

Shitty results because it's poor quality or because not enough people benefit?

KC native
04-16-2011, 01:43 PM
Shitty results because it's poor quality or because not enough people benefit?

Just about every measure you can think of. The US pays way too much for the results we get.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-16-2011, 01:48 PM
Being the worlds' police force and all one can not help but wonder what could be if we weren't.

Bewbies
04-16-2011, 01:51 PM
Those of us that have to physically write a check each year to the IRS have a much different view of our taxation policy. Want to cut the budget? Eliminate withholding and the entire country will back it.

chris
04-16-2011, 01:58 PM
It is an intelligent response to a retarded ****ing thread. I love how you come on here and work so hard to say how great your life is but all you do is bitch. You are a ****stick.

From your posting history, I will take your post as a compliment.

I have never said how great my life is. Matter of fact, most would think it sucks. Both my wife and I are workaholics and we don't take enough time for ourselves. :)

You symbolize what is wrong with this country. You are OK with national health care, entitlement programs, etc. as long as OTHERS pay for it. I would guess you would fit into the 47%.

When you are challenged by any CPer that disagree with your simple viewpoints, you resort to cursing and taunts. Your behavior is childish at best; and pathetic at worst.

But highly comical. After a long stressful day, it is fun to come here and read the comedy from you, Orange, Banyon, Drunwhathisname, and the rest of the Looters. So please carry on with your lame posting.

chiefsnorth
04-16-2011, 02:17 PM
There will never be a system where your true tax burden is obvious because liberalism would be put to the sword that very day.

chris
04-16-2011, 02:20 PM
There will never be a system where your true tax burden is obvious because liberalism would be put to the sword that very day.

But we shall endeavor.

Look at what is happening in Wisconsin and Ohio.

Hopefully the tide is turning.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-16-2011, 02:23 PM
But we shall endeavor.

Look at what is happening in Wisconsin and Ohio.

Hopefully the tide is turning.

True soon American won't have to worry about fake terrorists, we'll have our own mobs here.

chiefsnorth
04-16-2011, 02:24 PM
True soon American won't have to worry about fake terrorists, we'll have our own mobs here.

This kind of loose talk is going to have Big Sis shoving a spy camera up yur nose. Could it be any more obvious you're a potential domestic terrorist? ;)

Brock
04-16-2011, 02:27 PM
Like I've said before, the only way any tax reform is going to take place is to stop the withholding process and force everybody to confront what they're paying by writing a check on Apr. 15.

orange
04-16-2011, 02:27 PM
After a long stressful day, it is fun to come here and read the comedy from you, Orange, Banyon, Drunwhathisname, and the rest of the Looters. So please carry on with your lame posting.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2331/2115769431_18e685853a.jpg
Happy April 15 from your Uncle

By the way, thanks for your support. I'm going to head down to the car lot for their big Tax Day Sale and slap another Porsche on my EBT card, all on your money!

chris
04-16-2011, 02:30 PM
Like I've said before, the only way any tax reform is going to take place is to stop the withholding process and force everybody to confront what they're paying by writing a check on Apr. 15.

Amen.

orange
04-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Like I've said before, the only way any tax reform is going to take place is to stop the withholding process and force everybody to confront what they're paying by writing a check on Apr. 15.

https://www.hsbcmortgageservices.com/hms_ecare/images/automatic_payments_no_fee.jpg

Welcome to 2011.

Besides, since "47% don't pay taxes," what difference would it make? Surely they could find another 4%-5% with bleeding hearts among the non-looters. :huh:

Brock
04-16-2011, 02:38 PM
https://www.hsbcmortgageservices.com/hms_ecare/images/automatic_payments_no_fee.jpg

Welcome to 2011.

Besides, since "47% don't pay taxes," what difference would it make? Surely they could find another 4%-5% with bleeding hearts among the non-looters. :huh:

I don't know what any of that means.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-16-2011, 02:43 PM
This kind of loose talk is going to have Big Sis shoving a spy camera up yur nose. Could it be any more obvious you're a potential domestic terrorist? ;)

What so they can hire me as a trends analyst? I have zero will to be involved with the beast government. If this turns out like the french revolution I'm sure telling the citizens you were part of the mess would get you a nice retirement.

Stewie
04-16-2011, 02:46 PM
Listen to KC Native. He has all the traditional answers that were driven into his brain by his "knowledge"....errrrr... his Svengali. Ya know, "I'm smarter than you because I went to school and was told investing in GM was "gold"!!!!! Whoohoooo! GM!!!!! How about municipal bonds KC Native? You gonna buy those?

Calcountry
04-16-2011, 02:51 PM
I vent about this every year on CP.

As a small business owner, I work 60, 80, 100 hour weeks. I create numerous high tech jobs.

I don't go to the Casinos to gamble. I do it every week with large amount of capital and resources.

I'm taxed to the max allowed by Congress.

I spend $10,000+ to experts to legally avoid paying taxes. We look for every angle.

Yet, every year I pay a ever larger amount to support others that haven't better themselves in the past year.

Yet, 47% don't pay income taxes.

All the lazy ass liberals will jump on me for saying this; but our system is broken. Why should I support your way of life?

We need a flat tax!!!Move to Brazil.

notorious
04-16-2011, 02:58 PM
Quarterlies didn't cover it this year?

That means you are growing, which is a good thing. Stop complaining you rich asshole.


Paying taxes should be a great feeling. Your money will all be efficiently spent on very effective programs.

And just think how happy people are going to be in the following weeks get their tax return checks. FREE MONEY FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!

chris
04-16-2011, 03:04 PM
Quarterlies didn't cover it this year?

That means you are growing, which is a good thing. Stop complaining you rich asshole.


Paying taxes should be a great feeling. Your money will all be efficiently spent on very effective programs.

And just think how happy people are going to be in the following weeks get their tax return checks. FREE MONEY FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!

ROFL

Mr. Kotter
04-16-2011, 03:06 PM
Shitty results because it's poor quality or because not enough people benefit?

IMO, it's incredibly poor bang for the buck: primarily due to cost shifting, too many "middle" men, and exorbitant fees for many services (compared to same service costs elsewhere in the industrialized world.)

BWillie
04-16-2011, 03:18 PM
There is never going to be a flat tax nor should there be, but I feel your pain. I know of zero countries that have anything but a progressive tax system.

Mr. Kotter
04-16-2011, 03:20 PM
As to the OP, I agree everyone should contribute; however, the idea that would pay for the services and programs that a majority of our citizens demand, and have come to expect, is naive--it wouldn't make a very big dent, because you can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

Any serious attempt at better fiscal management will have to be a combination of reasonable and prioritized spending cuts, elimination of loopholes and tax breaks for the elite and special interest lobbyists who buy off Congress, and specific and modest tax increases targeted at those who have not been paying their share--including many on the lower rungs of the socio-econmic ladder.

However, there are many on the higher rungs who also need to pay more too--especially those whose current contributions are not comensurate with the privilege, freedom, and wealth afforded to them as a result of the incredible opportunities they would not have anywhere else, and that they have primarily because they are citizens of this country. I don't know whether you qualify for that group or not, but if you do--you should pay even more. I trust Warren Buffet and Bill Gates on this count.

mikey23545
04-16-2011, 03:24 PM
By the way, thanks for your support. I'm going to head down to the car lot for their big Tax Day Sale and slap another Porsche on my EBT card, all on your money!

Why not buy one of Der Fuhrer's Obamamobiles? It costs damn near the same as a Porsche and will go almost 20 miles before you have to stop and plug it in!

KC native
04-16-2011, 03:32 PM
Listen to KC Native. He has all the traditional answers that were driven into his brain by his "knowledge"....errrrr... his Svengali. Ya know, "I'm smarter than you because I went to school and was told investing in GM was "gold"!!!!! Whoohoooo! GM!!!!! How about municipal bonds KC Native? You gonna buy those?

Awesome. More gold nut false attribution.

Please point out where I have recommended either municipals or GM.

The fact of the matter is I take a data driven approach whereas you just take whatever is fed to you by gold nut message boards.

KC native
04-16-2011, 03:35 PM
From your posting history, I will take your post as a compliment.

I have never said how great my life is. Matter of fact, most would think it sucks. Both my wife and I are workaholics and we don't take enough time for ourselves. :)

You symbolize what is wrong with this country. You are OK with national health care, entitlement programs, etc. as long as OTHERS pay for it. I would guess you would fit into the 47%.

When you are challenged by any CPer that disagree with your simple viewpoints, you resort to cursing and taunts. Your behavior is childish at best; and pathetic at worst.

But highly comical. After a long stressful day, it is fun to come here and read the comedy from you, Orange, Banyon, Drunwhathisname, and the rest of the Looters. So please carry on with your lame posting.

Oh poor you.

You are a clown. Keep hurling accusations at me when you have no idea what my personal situation is. It really shows how strong your arguments are.

Aside from that, if you really work your 60, 80, 100 hour weeks then how do you have any idea of what my posting history is?

Also, I really like the fact that you have rep turned off yet still feel the need to neg rep me. That's what's pathetic.

CoMoChief
04-16-2011, 03:35 PM
Color me not surprised a ****ing retard like you would write something like this.

I'm for a single payor system of healthcare because right now we spend a tremendous amount of money on healthcare and get shitty results. It's about efficiency. Please find a post of mine about healthcare where I come of as a whiny bitch like chris. Also, I maintained that we should have a French style of single payor which contrary to your assertion isn't national health care. The government simply provides the basic amount of insurance and if citizens want more they can purchase it. Britain has national healthcare and it's not a system I endorse. I think America can have better results with less money. You apparently are fine with throwing away money and then bitching about the government throwing away money.

Taxes are necessary if you want to have a government. douchebag here benefits from a society where he can make money by providing him roads, the rule of law, and an effective payment system. If he doesn't want to pay taxes then he can move to somewhere where a government doesn't provide those things like Somalia.

So many things are wrong w/ this post.

CoMoChief
04-16-2011, 03:37 PM
Oh poor you.

You are a clown. Keep hurling accusations at me when you have no idea what my personal situation is. It really shows how strong your arguments are.

Aside from that, if you really work your 60, 80, 100 hour weeks then how do you have any idea of what my posting history is?

Also, I really like the fact that you have rep turned off yet still feel the need to neg rep me. That's what's pathetic.

When all else fails.....talk rep smack

KC native
04-16-2011, 03:37 PM
So many things are wrong w/ this post.

Feel free to point them out. Otherwise, stick to your awful sports predictions.

Hog Farmer
04-16-2011, 03:54 PM
Those 47% that don't pay an income tax are actually the most taxed people in the country because they pay a higher % of the money they make based on state,local and property tax. You realize every time those 47% put gas in their car they are paying tax. It just hurts like hell to pay that lump sum. This is the first year in the last 8 that I've had to pay an income tax. Did it piss me off ? yes, because I need to live and invest smarter.

banyon
04-16-2011, 03:57 PM
There are too many leeches on the system right now. Just the drain that illegal immigration puts on our local taxes here is ridiculous. Also too many people who are not really disabled. Corporate looting and tax cheats on the other end of the scale.

That said we need a federal government and we need a reliable way to fund it, and flat taxation ain't it.

mlyonsd
04-16-2011, 04:08 PM
There are too many leeches on the system right now. Just the drain that illegal immigration puts on our local taxes here is ridiculous. Also too many people who are not really disabled. Corporate looting and tax cheats on the other end of the scale.

That said we need a federal government and we need a reliable way to fund it, and flat taxation ain't it.

Why is a flat tax less reliable than what we have?

banyon
04-16-2011, 04:18 PM
Why is a flat tax less reliable than what we have?

Since it would rely more on contributions from the poor and middle class (presumably), then it would be more susceptible to swings in unemployment and the business cycle.

Shaid
04-16-2011, 04:20 PM
Those 47% that don't pay an income tax are actually the most taxed people in the country because they pay a higher % of the money they make based on state,local and property tax. You realize every time those 47% put gas in their car they are paying tax. It just hurts like hell to pay that lump sum. This is the first year in the last 8 that I've had to pay an income tax. Did it piss me off ? yes, because I need to live and invest smarter.

Exactly. If you actually compare how much people pay with all types of taxes as opposed to just income taxes you can see just how badly those 47% are actually taxed as a percent of their income. Also, take a look at how much the higher income people in this country have gained in their income over the past 30 years and compare it to the bottom half and it's amazing how substantial the difference is. The truth is that in a perfect world the business owners and people with lots of money would increase their wages the same percentage that they increased their income the previous year. The reality is that they will in most cases only increase their wages the minimum amount they need to in order to keep people around.

Iowanian
04-16-2011, 04:24 PM
I concur.


The thing that is pissing me off this year, is the bullshit I'm dealing with because of Hoperah's IRS people.

One day, I got 9(NINE) letters from the IRS last month, wanting to look up my ass for 2007...for months before I incorporated my business. All bullshit.

Then, last week, I got a letter from Missouri, suggesting that because my business is "close enough" to Missouri, it's likely I had done taxable business there in 2008, and that they were going to "estimate" my due tax.....Alot of businesses in my area are getting these. It's just a random stab in the dark by tax collectors.

Complete bullshit.

mlyonsd
04-16-2011, 04:24 PM
However, there are many on the higher rungs who also need to pay more too--especially those whose current contributions are not comensurate with the privilege, freedom, and wealth afforded to them as a result of the incredible opportunities they would not have anywhere else, and that they have primarily because they are citizens of this country.

This is absolutely laughable coming from a guy that fills his pockets with taxpayer money. You seriously should be ashamed.

Iowanian
04-16-2011, 04:28 PM
If you don't like the American way, you're free to try and make more somewhere else.

After the whining you've done over the last year, you've got a pair of big hairy balls to say that.

Iowanian
04-16-2011, 04:31 PM
Like I've said before, the only way any tax reform is going to take place is to stop the withholding process and force everybody to confront what they're paying by writing a check on Apr. 15.

I know writing that monthly check for taxes has made me much, much more aware of how much raping I'm taking.

Doing the mandated direct deposits are saving me1 pain.....I no longer have to watch people I know haven't worked a day in 10 years cheering for joy as their "$6k REFUND" is being counted out in front of them while I'm writing mine.

Demonpenz
04-16-2011, 04:32 PM
I guess I am glad that I love making alot of money to give it away. It makes me feel good that I am helping

Iowanian
04-16-2011, 04:34 PM
Move to Somalia then ****stick.

What we need to do is crack down on Illegals, confiscate the funds they illegally earn here and are illegally laundering across national boundaries.

Day laborer tax would make your pussy hurt.

mlyonsd
04-16-2011, 04:47 PM
Since it would rely more on contributions from the poor and middle class (presumably), then it would be more susceptible to swings in unemployment and the business cycle.

I think if more tax dollars were counted on from the poor/middle class our politicians would be protecting the revenue by protecting their jobs a lot more than they do now.

chris
04-16-2011, 05:11 PM
I concur.


The thing that is pissing me off this year, is the bullshit I'm dealing with because of Hoperah's IRS people.

One day, I got 9(NINE) letters from the IRS last month, wanting to look up my ass for 2007...for months before I incorporated my business. All bullshit.

Then, last week, I got a letter from Missouri, suggesting that because my business is "close enough" to Missouri, it's likely I had done taxable business there in 2008, and that they were going to "estimate" my due tax.....Alot of businesses in my area are getting these. It's just a random stab in the dark by tax collectors.

Complete bullshit.

I agree; I hate when they go on a fishing expedition looking for something to hang you on. Do you have a good tax accountant who you have authorized to speak on your behalf? Critical. Worth every penny. I, or a business, have been audited twice. Both times, my accountant would say "what are you asking for?" and then supply only that. Then ask the same question again and again till they went away. Never ever bring all your stuff to the meeting and let them rummage through everything. They will find something to justify their existence. States are worse; their staff is usually less qualified and more aggressive.

A flat tax would make small business owners lives easier.

SNR
04-16-2011, 05:31 PM
I concur.


The thing that is pissing me off this year, is the bullshit I'm dealing with because of Hoperah's IRS people.

One day, I got 9(NINE) letters from the IRS last month, wanting to look up my ass for 2007...for months before I incorporated my business. All bullshit.

Then, last week, I got a letter from Missouri, suggesting that because my business is "close enough" to Missouri, it's likely I had done taxable business there in 2008, and that they were going to "estimate" my due tax.....Alot of businesses in my area are getting these. It's just a random stab in the dark by tax collectors.

Complete bullshit.Man, if the feds were screwing me over like that, I would comply with all of their demands, but then I'd also send them a box of poop. Just to make things cute.

Mr. Kotter
04-16-2011, 07:54 PM
This is absolutely laughable coming from a guy that fills his pockets with taxpayer money. You seriously should be ashamed.


Seriously? "Fills [my] pockets with taxpayer money?" :spock:

As a teacher in the lowest paid state for teaching, in the entire country? Seriously? I have colleagues who qualify for food stamps, and free and reduced lunches. Think about that. Do you honestly think that college educated teachers should qualify for welfare, because they chose a profession that too many politicians do not value? I've chosen to spend tens of thousands pursuing graduate work and professional credentials, that along with voluntary summer school and extracurricular efforts mean 60-65 hour weeks for over 6 months a year, to enhance my personal position...yet I'm supposed to be "ashamed?" Really?

Riddle me this, sir; what are teacher SUPPOSE to do? It's a serious question.

Are we supposed to just accept whatever pittance politicians decide to funnel to education? I mean seriously, with tax incentives to bring in business or oil pipelines, no corporate income tax, low-lower-lowest real estate taxes (a result of three 10% cuts over the last 10 years,) and the lowest overall tax burden by state in the entire country. Seriously. Google it yourself.

Do you really think that public education, which still serves 94-95% of students in our state....should be gutted, and programs that the public (when given the chance to vote on--evidence exhibit A, the opt-outs) has come to expect as given, and, yes now it seems, demand...should be not just reduced, but eliminated?

If that's your position, fine...I suppose; but when voters realize the magnitude of cuts we are facing...they will be burning effigies of tea party types in public demonstrations. Just sayin'.

:shake:

mlyonsd
04-16-2011, 10:09 PM
Seriously? "Fills [my] pockets with taxpayer money?" :spock:

As a teacher in the lowest paid state for teaching, in the entire country? Seriously? I have colleagues who qualify for food stamps, and free and reduced lunches. Think about that. Do you honestly think that college educated teachers should qualify for welfare, because they chose a profession that too many politicians do not value? I've chosen to spend tens of thousands pursuing graduate work and professional credentials, that along with voluntary summer school and extracurricular efforts mean 60-65 hour weeks for over 6 months a year, to enhance my personal position...yet I'm supposed to be "ashamed?" Really?

Riddle me this, sir; what are teacher SUPPOSE to do? It's a serious question.

Are we supposed to just accept whatever pittance politicians decide to funnel to education? I mean seriously, with tax incentives to bring in business or oil pipelines, no corporate income tax, low-lower-lowest real estate taxes (a result of three 10% cuts over the last 10 years,) and the lowest overall tax burden by state in the entire country. Seriously. Google it yourself.

Do you really think that public education, which still serves 94-95% of students in our state....should be gutted, and programs that the public (when given the chance to vote on--evidence exhibit A, the opt-outs) has come to expect as given, and, yes now it seems, demand...should be not just reduced, but eliminated?

If that's your position, fine...I suppose; but when voters realize the magnitude of cuts we are facing...they will be burning effigies of tea party types in public demonstrations. Just sayin'.

:shake:

ROFL See, there it is, the you owe me attitude.

I've never had the chance to sit through one of your classes but I can only hope you can teach what you're supposed to with some kind of accuracy without your bias.

When it comes to what you personally spent to promote your own self worth...I don't give a shit.

Yes, you should accept what our state politicans feel is the best road because YOU WORK FOR US.

Your profession is educating our kids to what, 25th in the world?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure me paying part of your salary gives me the right to throw the bullshit flag when you want to cry.

Mr. Kotter
04-16-2011, 10:19 PM
ROFL See, there it is, the you owe me attitude.

I've never had the chance to sit through one of your classes but I can only hope you can teach what you're supposed to with some kind of accuracy without your bias.

When it comes to what you personally spent to promote your own self worth...I don't give a shit.

Yes, you should accept what our state politicans feel is the best road because YOU WORK FOR US.

Your profession is educating our kids to what, 25th in the world?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure me paying part of your salary gives me the right to throw the bullshit flag when you want to cry.


Wow. Narcissism and self-grandiose delusions aside, the perverted sense of self-entitlement so rampant among baby-boomer types distorts any sense of reality they may have otherwise been born with. The truly Greatest Generation, ever...they are the ones who ought to be "ashamed" of the spoiled brats they have raised; and, truthfully, they are. At least the many honest ones I have met, anyway. Just sayin'.... :rolleyes:

Mr. Kotter
04-16-2011, 10:27 PM
ROFL See, there it is, the you owe me attitude.

I've never had the chance to sit through one of your classes but I can only hope you can teach what you're supposed to with some kind of accuracy without your bias.

When it comes to what you personally spent to promote your own self worth...I don't give a shit.

Yes, you should accept what our state politicans feel is the best road because YOU WORK FOR US.

Your profession is educating our kids to what, 25th in the world?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure me paying part of your salary gives me the right to throw the bullshit flag when you want to cry.

Riddle me this, sir; what are teachers (who are paid 51st out of the U.S.--including D.C.) SUPPOSE to do? It's a serious question.

Are we supposed to say, "thank you, sir; may I have another (without lube)???"

Hoover
04-16-2011, 10:36 PM
This time of year sux. I cut a check for by 2010 tax bill then have to pay my quarterly taxes for 2011.

I'm playing a shit ton in taxes. I'm not wealthy, I live a comfortable life, but my car is 11 years old and I don't have a kickass TV. Still our government thinks I'm effin rich.

Mr. Kotter
04-16-2011, 10:39 PM
This time of year sux. I cut a check for by 2010 tax bill then have to pay my quarterly taxes for 2011.

I'm playing a shit ton in taxes. I'm not wealthy, I live a comfortable life, but my car is 11 years old and I don't have a kickass TV. Still our government thinks I'm effin rich.

What's your AGI? If u aren't willing to "share," don't expect too much sympathy. Just sayin'...

An impulse for "secrecy" tells the rest of us, what we need to know.

Mr. Kotter
04-16-2011, 10:43 PM
ROFL See, there it is, the you owe me attitude.

I've never had the chance to sit through one of your classes but I can only hope you can teach what you're supposed to with some kind of accuracy without your bias.

When it comes to what you personally spent to promote your own self worth...I don't give a shit.

Yes, you should accept what our state politicans feel is the best road because YOU WORK FOR US.

Your profession is educating our kids to what, 25th in the world?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure me paying part of your salary gives me the right to throw the bullshit flag when you want to cry.

I have colleagues who qualify for food stamps, and free and reduced lunches. Think about that. Do you honestly think that college educated teachers should qualify for welfare, because they chose a profession that too many politicians do not value?

Mr. Kotter
04-16-2011, 10:46 PM
Will be interesting to see...."thoughtful" responses from tea party douchebag-devotionist types. Heh.

Good night!? Heh. :toast:

Direckshun
04-16-2011, 11:31 PM
A flat tax is a massive tax increase by the overwhelming majority of society, and a huge tax decrease for the wealthy.

I see no constructive reason for this to happen, other than overemotional wroughtness about an arbitrary concept of fairness that any massive corporation would love to promote.

Baby Lee
04-16-2011, 11:50 PM
IMO, it's incredibly poor bang for the buck: primarily due to cost shifting, too many "middle" men, and exorbitant fees for many services (compared to same service costs elsewhere in the industrialized world.)

Bagel spreads all up in the hizzie!!

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2011, 07:33 AM
Bagel spreads all up in the hizzie!!

Throw me a bone, BL; address the substance of the post, and I'll answer in kind.

WilliamTheIrish
04-17-2011, 07:47 AM
What's your AGI? If u aren't willing to "share," don't expect too much sympathy. Just sayin'...

An impulse for "secrecy" tells the rest of us, what we need to know.

You first.

chris
04-17-2011, 09:49 AM
What's your AGI? If u aren't willing to "share," don't expect too much sympathy. Just sayin'...

An impulse for "secrecy" tells the rest of us, what we need to know.

Pure comedy.

You pontificate on and on about sacrifices your profession is making. Then you ask others for their AGI in order to gain your sympathy?

You are truly funny. Have you though about becoming a comedian?

Direckshun
04-17-2011, 09:53 AM
ROFL See, there it is, the you owe me attitude.

I've never had the chance to sit through one of your classes but I can only hope you can teach what you're supposed to with some kind of accuracy without your bias.

When it comes to what you personally spent to promote your own self worth...I don't give a shit.

Yes, you should accept what our state politicans feel is the best road because YOU WORK FOR US.

Your profession is educating our kids to what, 25th in the world?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure me paying part of your salary gives me the right to throw the bullshit flag when you want to cry.

All due respect, but this is an insanely ignorant post.

I think you're letting your zest for a zinger get in the way of rationality.

notorious
04-17-2011, 10:01 AM
My accountant dropped my taxes off late last night.



:facepalm:


Just when it's looking like a great year, the Feds and State remind you that last year was and that they want their more then generous cut.

So much for getting ahead and growing.

Fuck

chris
04-17-2011, 10:13 AM
My accountant dropped my taxes off late last night.



:facepalm:


Just when it's looking like a great year, the Feds and State remind you that last year was and that they want their more then generous cut.

So much for getting ahead and growing.

****

I feel your pain.

But as Looters see it as, even though you busted your butt and created value, it is your privilege to give 35% of the profit away to others that don't have your drive and ability.

banyon
04-17-2011, 10:24 AM
I feel your pain.

But as Looters see it as, even though you busted your butt and created value, it is your privilege to give 35% of the profit away to others that don't have your drive and ability.

35% is the top marginal rate, not the effective rate. No one pays 35% of their total income for the income tax.

banyon
04-17-2011, 10:35 AM
I feel your pain.

But as Looters see it as, even though you busted your butt and created value, it is your privilege to give 35% of the profit away to others that don't have your drive and ability.
Also, let's do a little case study with this overblown absolutist rhetoric of yours.


Suppose someone is injured in an accident and becomes a quadrapalegic. He needs a breathing machine and other equipment to keep going. He cannot pay for it. Medicare does. Is he a "looter"? By your terms, he is "taking from others" and not participating in "creating value" (which appears to be the only quality you seem to value in these threads). Should we continue to let him loot from the godlike perfect immortal value creators like yourself? If not, what to do with him? Cast him off a cliff like we are in Ancient Sparta?


While this example is extreme, we could go through an almost infinite number of lesser variations in between, many of which could be a "looter", others which should give you pause. The main point is that your view and rhetoric about "looting" is almost childlike in its oversimplification.

RedDread
04-17-2011, 11:52 AM
Also, let's do a little case study with this overblown absolutist rhetoric of yours.


Suppose someone is injured in an accident and becomes a quadrapalegic. He needs a breathing machine and other equipment to keep going. He cannot pay for it. Medicare does. Is he a "looter"? By your terms, he is "taking from others" and not participating in "creating value" (which appears to be the only quality you seem to value in these threads). Should we continue to let him loot from the godlike perfect immortal value creators like yourself? If not, what to do with him? Cast him off a cliff like we are in Ancient Sparta?


While this example is extreme, we could go through an almost infinite number of lesser variations in between, many of which could be a "looter", others which should give you pause. The main point is that your view and rhetoric about "looting" is almost childlike in its oversimplification.

I've got a better real world example. Two years ago I left for a deployment early in the year, and ended up owing next to nothing come tax time. Not only that, but my salary while I was over there was apparently paid by Chris all by his lonesome. Thanks Chris!

chris
04-17-2011, 12:44 PM
35% is the top marginal rate, not the effective rate. No one pays 35% of their total income for the income tax.

Corporate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States

JASONSAUTO
04-17-2011, 12:49 PM
This time of year sux. I cut a check for by 2010 tax bill then have to pay my quarterly taxes for 2011.

I'm playing a shit ton in taxes. I'm not wealthy, I live a comfortable life, but my car is 11 years old and I don't have a kickass TV. Still our government thinks I'm effin rich.
Me too. Sucks
Posted via Mobile Device

chris
04-17-2011, 01:37 PM
Also, let's do a little case study with this overblown absolutist rhetoric of yours.


Suppose someone is injured in an accident and becomes a quadrapalegic. He needs a breathing machine and other equipment to keep going. He cannot pay for it. Medicare does. Is he a "looter"? By your terms, he is "taking from others" and not participating in "creating value" (which appears to be the only quality you seem to value in these threads). Should we continue to let him loot from the godlike perfect immortal value creators like yourself? If not, what to do with him? Cast him off a cliff like we are in Ancient Sparta?


While this example is extreme, we could go through an almost infinite number of lesser variations in between, many of which could be a "looter", others which should give you pause. The main point is that your view and rhetoric about "looting" is almost childlike in its oversimplification.

47% don't pay income tax.

System is broken. Even the Treasury Secretary on the Sunday talk shows said so.

All the Liberal spinning can't change these facts.

chris
04-17-2011, 01:42 PM
I've got a better real world example. Two years ago I left for a deployment early in the year, and ended up owing next to nothing come tax time. Not only that, but my salary while I was over there was apparently paid by Chris all by his lonesome. Thanks Chris!


Thank you for defending the USA.

However, the fact that you, or any other of the 47%, didn't pay any income taxes shows the system is broken.

And I would like to hope that my small contribution to the Defense Department would go to pay for something like an pilot seat on a F-15E or reactor fuel for a boomer boat rather than your salary or toilet paper. :)

Mr. Flopnuts
04-17-2011, 01:48 PM
After the whining you've done over the last year, you've got a pair of big hairy balls to say that.

Heh, even though it was taken literally, I'm glad someone saw the irony in my post. It was TIC.

Basically, I've been pretty adamant that everyone is fucked under our current system. TV's, cars, and shiny electronics keep us preoccupied enough to forget that we're essentially slaves. Very few people have any real control or power, or money, or security, or whatever.

I'm going to reserve my pity for someone who doesn't know how they're going to feed their kids. Poor, uneducated, fucks that never stood a chance in this dog eat dog world.

Not someone who is pissed off that they won't be able to take that 3rd vacation in HI next year. Congrats on your hard work. Enjoy that steak dinner tonight. You've earned it!

Simplex3
04-17-2011, 06:06 PM
I'm going to reserve my pity for someone who doesn't know how they're going to feed their kids. Poor, uneducated, ****s that never stood a chance in this dog eat dog world.

Yeah, like the lady I saw at the zoo today. Very overweight with three overweight kids, the mom in designer clothes with all the hair and jewelry, iPhone included, with the kids looking like they were straight out of Oliver Twist. Her with her $4 zoo drink and a $3 soft pretzel, them asking for some overly priced trinket and her telling them there wasn't enough money left over from their "assistance check".

Does that lady deserve my money? Because it sure looked to me like those three kids were dollar signs to her.

mlyonsd
04-17-2011, 06:32 PM
All due respect, but this is an insanely ignorant post.

I think you're letting your zest for a zinger get in the way of rationality.

Yeah you're right, Kotter doesn't have to accept what his elected officials give him. He always has the right to change professions.

mlyonsd
04-17-2011, 06:41 PM
I have colleagues who qualify for food stamps, and free and reduced lunches. Think about that. Do you honestly think that college educated teachers should qualify for welfare, because they chose a profession that too many politicians do not value?

Here's an idea. Your problem isn't the rich aren't being taxed too much. It's your elected politicians aren't spending our tax dollars correctly.

If you were my brother our Scottish mother would have back handed you years ago.

mlyonsd
04-17-2011, 06:48 PM
Riddle me this, sir; what are teachers (who are paid 51st out of the U.S.--including D.C.) SUPPOSE to do? It's a serious question.

Are we supposed to say, "thank you, sir; may I have another (without lube)???"

Well I'd start by finding a different profession. Especially if my family depended on it. Wait, I already did that 30 years ago.

And you're ranked 51st in the nation partially because you pay no state income tax and the cost of living here is at the bottom of the union. So I guess your second option is to move to greener pastures.

chiefzilla1501
04-17-2011, 06:52 PM
I would have no problem paying taxes if I was actually getting bang for the buck. In business, you don't invest in projects unless you get ROI. And if you fail, your business is done (well... most of the time). If we actually spent our government money efficiently, we wouldn't be nearly as much in the hole. Instead, with my taxpayer money, we're paying for a ton of workers with tenure (yes, that includes teachers) who would be fireable in any other profession. We pay for services like the Postal Service to bleed money. And we do a horrendous job at guarding against abuse and fraud, like we see every single day with stuff like food stamps. I'm not saying that all public sector workers are bad, but more than enough to create a drain on the system.

The private sector has a lot of flaws. But the one thing they have that the public sector does not is accountability. You try to do a good job because you don't want to get fired. And your business protects against fraud/etc... because they don't want to lose money. They so often forget that their "company" is basically a business funded by the taxpayer.

That's why I despise public sector unions. They're important, but to what length should we be defending a lousy 50 year old teacher who is getting paid a shitload in salary/benefits because of tenure, while a young and dedicated teacher is waiting in the wings?

JASONSAUTO
04-17-2011, 07:01 PM
Medicare fraud pisses me off to no end. Instead of going after the fraudulent doctors they just cut available services to the people that really need it.

But lets let that doctor keep that money and in most instances keep getting it
Posted via Mobile Device

alnorth
04-17-2011, 07:08 PM
We need a flat tax!!!

I'll support this, if we revoke all other forms of personal taxation, get rid of payroll taxes, and pass a constitutional amendment making sales taxes illegal.

Just two taxes for individuals, a state flat tax and a federal flat tax. Thats it, adjust the number as needed to pay for everything.

If sales taxes and payroll taxes don't go away, then we'll still need a progressive income tax.

chris
04-17-2011, 07:12 PM
I'll support this, if we revoke all other forms of personal taxation, get rid of payroll taxes, and pass a constitutional amendment making sales taxes illegal.

Just two taxes for individuals, a state flat tax and a federal flat tax. Thats it, adjust the number as needed to pay for everything.

If sales taxes and payroll taxes don't go away, then we'll still need a progressive income tax.

Bravo. If you run for office on that tax platform, I'll donate to your campaign!

JASONSAUTO
04-17-2011, 07:39 PM
I'll support this, if we revoke all other forms of personal taxation, get rid of payroll taxes, and pass a constitutional amendment making sales taxes illegal.

Just two taxes for individuals, a state flat tax and a federal flat tax. Thats it, adjust the number as needed to pay for everything.

If sales taxes and payroll taxes don't go away, then we'll still need a progressive income tax.


I agree with this. TOTALLY
Posted via Mobile Device

prhom
04-17-2011, 08:33 PM
I would have no problem paying taxes if I was actually getting bang for the buck.


This is at the crux of the debate for me. Even the most ignorant and lazy citizen sees how much of their paycheck is withheld for taxes. I'd love to see something like they do on utility bills where each tax and fee is detailed. It's be worthwhile to show what percentage of your taxes go to support various types of government spending. I think it would create a lot more interest in fiscal policy than currently exists.

I can't say that a flat tax is a good idea simply because it IS hugely regressive. The only way we could sustain even a vastly trimmed government budget with a flat tax is to have a very high tax rate. Then there would necessarily be subsidies and programs to help relieve the effect of that burden on low-income tax payers. This only makes the problem we have now worse.

What I would like to see is a progressive tax system, only with fixed ratios between the brackets. In other words, you can't give the top tax bracket a cut without lowering the marginal rates below it. This way all citizens have some skin in the game and see where their money is going. When a new spending program is introduced the first question in everyone's mind will be how much is this going to cost, not how much will I get from it for free.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Eliminate all taxes and go back to local volunteer militia.

JASONSAUTO
04-17-2011, 08:47 PM
Eliminate all taxes and go back to local volunteer militia.

NOT.



GONNA.





HAPPEN.





EVER.
Posted via Mobile Device

KILLER_CLOWN
04-17-2011, 08:48 PM
NOT.



GONNA.





HAPPEN.





EVER.
Posted via Mobile Device

Well...ya...but what is yer point?

JASONSAUTO
04-17-2011, 08:50 PM
Well...ya...but what is yer point?

What was yours then? Why say something so far out of the realm of possibilities?
Posted via Mobile Device

banyon
04-17-2011, 08:51 PM
47% don't pay income tax.

System is broken. Even the Treasury Secretary on the Sunday talk shows said so.

All the Liberal spinning can't change these facts.

As I suspected. When someone tries to define the terms you're using, then you run for the door.

Emote catch phrase #1 (System Broken!) Emote Catch phrase #2 (You're spinning1!11!).

All this whining from a guy who pays $10k just to accountants to avoid taxes and then tells a military member he wishes he didn't have to pay his salary.

Maybe he wishes he didn't have to catch your bullet, or put out your fire, or build your road, or educate kids, or stop your house burglary.

But challenge you on an idea and they're the ones that are "spinning". ROFL

Get over yourself dude.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-17-2011, 08:52 PM
What was yours then? Why say something so far out of the realm of possibilities?
Posted via Mobile Device

It was a joke.

JASONSAUTO
04-17-2011, 08:54 PM
It was a joke.

Ok then lol
Posted via Mobile Device

banyon
04-17-2011, 09:08 PM
Corporate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States

You are a C Corp and don't pay individual taxes?

Even if this absurdity were true, even corporations don't pay a 35% effective rate. You appear not to understand the nature of marginal taxation.

Maybe you should try to Wikipedia that.

chris
04-17-2011, 09:30 PM
As I suspected. When someone tries to define the terms you're using, then you run for the door.

Emote catch phrase #1 (System Broken!) Emote Catch phrase #2 (You're spinning1!11!).

All this whining from a guy who pays $10k just to accountants to avoid taxes and then tells a military member he wishes he didn't have to pay his salary.

Maybe he wishes he didn't have to catch your bullet, or put out your fire, or build your road, or educate kids, or stop your house burglary.

But challenge you on an idea and they're the ones that are "spinning". ROFL

Get over yourself dude.


Aah, time for the Banyon insults. Very predictable. We've heard from most of the other Liberal lemmings..insult away.

My message is the same as always:

47% don't pay income taxes. Everyone needs to pay income tax to feel the pain of a out- of-control entitlement driven system.

I would gladly pay 23% in a flat tax in a heart beat. Would you?

Liberals Looters such as you you want to take more from those that make wealth to give to those that don't.

I have to spend large sums of money <actually much greater than $10K> to legally fight a unfair progressive tax system. I have to buy sick companies or properties to fix them as to have the ability to gain tax write offs. In a flat tax, I would have to do neither.

As long as we have class warfare, the system will not be fixable.

I did not say I didn't want to pay his salary. Of course, being a mud slinging Liberal, you had to misconstrue to attack the writer rather than the message. I said I would like to think my money went to something more exotic like fighter jets or subs.

Would you like for me to repeat this again...except smaller words and typing slower?? Maybe that time you would get it right for once. :)

chris
04-17-2011, 09:33 PM
You are a C Corp and don't pay individual taxes?

Even if this absurdity were true, even corporations don't pay a 35% effective rate. You appear not to understand the nature of marginal taxation.

Maybe you should try to Wikipedia that.

Oooops, you are wrong as usual.

keep out of business accounting. Or business outsourcing. It appears you know neither.

Matter of fact, have you every run a business? Made payroll? Face the tough decisions of how to grow; or the tougher ones of how to shut down?

maybe you wouldn't be so liberal if you had.

J Diddy
04-17-2011, 09:54 PM
From your posting history, I will take your post as a compliment.

I have never said how great my life is. Matter of fact, most would think it sucks. Both my wife and I are workaholics and we don't take enough time for ourselves. :)

You symbolize what is wrong with this country. You are OK with national health care, entitlement programs, etc. as long as OTHERS pay for it. I would guess you would fit into the 47%.

When you are challenged by any CPer that disagree with your simple viewpoints, you resort to cursing and taunts. Your behavior is childish at best; and pathetic at worst.

But highly comical. After a long stressful day, it is fun to come here and read the comedy from you, Orange, Banyon, Drunwhathisname, and the rest of the Looters. So please carry on with your lame posting.



I find it ironic that you jump on people for not paying taxes, but yet pay a ton of money to experts to avoid paying taxes.

notorious
04-17-2011, 09:57 PM
I find it ironic that you jump on people for not paying taxes, but yet pay a ton of money to experts to avoid paying taxes.


Obviously you have never been in business for yourself.


I am not talking lemonade stands, either.


P.s. I don't spend near that amount of money on Accountants due to the type of businesses I own. I do understand the need to protect one's business and personal property through the use of expensive accounting, though.

banyon
04-17-2011, 09:59 PM
Aah, time for the Banyon insults. Very predictable. We've heard from most of the other Liberal lemmings..insult away.

My message is the same as always:

47% don't pay income taxes. Everyone needs to pay income tax to feel the pain of a out- of-control entitlement driven system.

I would gladly pay 23% in a flat tax in a heart beat. Would you?

Liberals Looters such as you you want to take more from those that make wealth to give to those that don't.

I have to spend large sums of money <actually much greater than $10K> to legally fight a unfair progressive tax system. I have to buy sick companies or properties to fix them as to have the ability to gain tax write offs. In a flat tax, I would have to do neither.

As long as we have class warfare, the system will not be fixable.

I did not say I didn't want to pay his salary. Of course, being a mud slinging Liberal, you had to misconstrue to attack the writer rather than the message. I said I would like to think my money went to something more exotic like fighter jets or subs.

Would you like for me to repeat this again...except smaller words and typing slower?? Maybe that time you would get it right for once. :)

Ah, and now we complete the "chris thread experience". Avoid the question, insult the other side when you don't like the questions, act all aghast when someone dares to sling mud back, then declare that if anyone argues with you and they aren't a small business owner themselves, then their point of view is worthless.

I've done this rodeo with you probably 4 or 5 times now and it always ends the same. For making as much money as you like to brag about, you aren't very good at discussions that require even an iota of nuance.


If you want to know where this went wrong, just go back to the first question I asked. You still haven't even attempted to answer it.

J Diddy
04-17-2011, 10:02 PM
Obviously you have never been in business for yourself.


I am not talking lemonade stands, either.
Nope.

(well I have ran a lemonade stand)

That being said, I see absolutely no difference between a business owner doing his best to avoid paying taxes and a poor person not making enough money to pay taxes.

The only exception would be is that the business owner does pay some taxes.

This is just a case of someone being upset about having to pay taxes and who is using that to bash someone else because they don't believe in what they're tax money is going to. Which is a fine argument in and of itself.

banyon
04-17-2011, 10:04 PM
Oooops, you are wrong as usual.

keep out of business accounting. Or business outsourcing. It appears you know neither.

Matter of fact, have you every run a business? Made payroll? Face the tough decisions of how to grow; or the tougher ones of how to shut down?

maybe you wouldn't be so liberal if you had.

Why don't you show us with a basic example how you think the tax rate works. Just use a base income, or a fancy big time example of a glorious producer like you that the filthy loitered are always trying to steal from. Shouldn't be do tough for an uber-worldly business Titan like yourself, right?

Of course I assume you'll duck this question too and just accuse me of spinning or liberal bias because you can't answer it.

notorious
04-17-2011, 10:06 PM
Nope.

(well I have ran a lemonade stand)

That being said, I see absolutely no difference between a business owner doing his best to avoid paying taxes and a poor person not making enough money to pay taxes.

The only exception would be is that the business owner does pay some taxes.

This is just a case of someone being upset about having to pay taxes and who is using that to bash someone else because they don't believe in what they're tax money is going to. Which is a fine argument in and of itself.

Cool, and I apologize if I came across as an asshole.


Lemonade stands are a cash business. Perfect for avoiding taxes. :D

J Diddy
04-17-2011, 10:07 PM
Cool, and I apologize if I came across as an asshole.


Lemonade stands are a cash business. Perfect for avoiding taxes. :D



Also perfect for avoiding thirst.

Okie_Apparition
04-17-2011, 10:14 PM
To break from jolly england the 13 colonies went deep in debt to France. This country was born ass deep in debt. Just consider your taxes as paying interest monies to France. You so American

J Diddy
04-17-2011, 10:15 PM
To break from jolly england the 13 colonies went deep in debt to France. This country was born ass deep in debt. Just consider your taxes as paying interest monies to France. You so American

We should send them a bill for world war 2.

Okie_Apparition
04-17-2011, 10:18 PM
Franklin & Jefferson's lips are still attached to their butts, we're screwed.

chris
04-17-2011, 10:25 PM
Why don't you show us with a basic example how you think the tax rate works. Just use a base income, or a fancy big time example of a glorious producer like you that the filthy loitered are always trying to steal from. Shouldn't be do tough for an uber-worldly business Titan like yourself, right?

Of course I assume you'll duck this question too and just accuse me of spinning or liberal bias because you can't answer it.

banyon, banyon, banyon

i hate arguing just of the sake of arguing. I don't the time or patience. It appears that you do.

Besides, I always worry about the old saying that if you argue too much with an idiot, people can't tell the difference between the two. So you keep on mud slinging and arguing mundane, worthless points if it make you feel better.

You always duck the tough questions and deflect. Would you pay 23% today?

You haven't run a business, but you know how to tell us that do how we are evil and greedy mofos.

I have more fun talking to other folk. CYA

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2011, 10:30 PM
Why don't you show us with a basic example how you think the tax rate works. Just use a base income, or a fancy big time example of a glorious producer like you that the filthy loitered are always trying to steal from. Shouldn't be do tough for an uber-worldly business Titan like yourself, right?

Of course I assume you'll duck this question too and just accuse me of spinning or liberal bias because you can't answer it.

You really expect this douche to answer that? Heh. Wishful thinking, man.

This "chris" is the pat-Dane-W. douchebag of the year for D.C. Taking it for the team?

At da country club? Sippin' martinis as they ass-rape the rest of America. Another day, brah. :shrug:

Yo. Word. You busted his sorry azz. Move on. Nothing to see, here. Heh. LMAO

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2011, 10:31 PM
banyon, banyon, banyon

i hate arguing just of the sake of arguing. I don't the time or patience. It appears that you do.

Besides, I always worry about the old saying that if you argue too much with an idiot, people can't tell the difference between the two. So you keep on mud slinging and arguing mundane, worthless points if it make you feel better.

You always duck the tough questions and deflect. Would you pay 23% today?

You haven't run a business, but you know how to tell us that do how we are evil and greedy mofos.

I have more fun talking to other folk. CYA

Heh, the booze is talkin' now; we KNOW who's ducking the question, Nancy--and it ain't banyon.

Answer the man. Heh. Or not, and stay the vagina you are. Heh. Go fugg the babysitter or maid--or somethin'. LMAO

banyon
04-17-2011, 10:33 PM
banyon, banyon, banyon

i hate arguing just of the sake of arguing. I don't the time or patience. It appears that you do.

Besides, I always worry about the old saying that if you argue too much with an idiot, people can't tell the difference between the two. So you keep on mud slinging and arguing mundane, worthless points if it make you feel better.

You always duck the tough questions and deflect.

You haven't run a business, but you know how to tell us that did how we are evil and greedy mofos.

I have more fun talking to other folk. CYA

You've ducked every question I asked in thus thread and now you whine that I ducked questions? Is your business a funhouse mirror manufacturer?

You didn't ask me any tough questions, just a bunch of rhetorical ones implying insults. You don't know how marginal taxation works and can't show us an example, so no wonder you need those guys to do your taxes. They are probably ripping you off. LMAO

SNR
04-17-2011, 10:40 PM
Heh.

chris
04-17-2011, 10:41 PM
You really expect this douche to answer that? Heh. Wishful thinking, man.

This "chris" is the pat-Dane-W. douchebag of the year for D.C. Taking it for the team?

At da country club? Sippin' martinis as they ass-rape the rest of America. Another day, brah. :shrug:

Yo. Word. You busted his sorry azz. Move on. Nothing to see, here. Heh. LMAO

Very predictable. A liberal lemming coming to defense of another. Spouting liberal insults.

Typical.

BTW, since you stopped by.....to make you really hate me....may I share that I'm putting money to work supporting the good folk in both WI and Ohio who are reining in the public unions. Teachers need to step up their game. The product the USA is producing is failing. So we need better teachers and make them more accountable.

Coming from you, I take your lame comments as a compliment. (BTW, I don't golf. So no country club; I drive a Ford F-150 with 110K miles; and I shop at Costco. Thanks for asking.)

Good night.

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2011, 10:42 PM
Heh.

Heh, indeed. LMAO

I love seeing panty-waist wanna-bes have this shit handed to them, on a silver platter. Heh.

Night all.

JASONSAUTO
04-17-2011, 10:42 PM
Heh
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2011, 10:43 PM
Very predictable. A liberal lemming coming to defense of another. Spouting liberal insults.

Typical.

BTW, since you stopped by.....to make you really hate me....may I share that I'm putting money to work supporting the good folk in both WI and Ohio who are reining in the public unions. Teachers need to step up their game. The product the USA is producing is failing. So we need better teachers and make them more accountable.

Coming from you, I take your lame comments as a compliment. (BTW, I don't golf. So no country club; I drive a Ford F-150 with 110K miles; and I shop at Costco. Thanks for asking.)

Good night.
Night, douchebag. Sweet dreams--or at least enjoy the young illegal immigrant. LMAO

FishingRod
04-18-2011, 06:42 AM
Our Tax code is a mess. It has instance after instance of what people would call loopholes that have been shoved through on the back of unseemly back room deals. If one were to simply eliminate all the deductions a flat tax would be far more simple to administer and would be far more fair to the population. I don’t even think most people would have a huge problem and protecting the poor by exempting the fist (pick a number) $20000 of income from any taxes. Likewise fixing the social security system is very easy. Just remove the Social Security ceiling. At present no income above $102,000-ish is subject to Social Security tax. Since the fund is obviously not a personal retirement, account this makes no sense. Additionally as pro military as I am, if we choose to quite being the world’s policeman we could probably could cut that part of the budget in half and be perfectly secure from any other country or conceivable group of countries invading the Good old USA. The only reason our problems are and seem so insurmountable is that both the Republican and the Democratic elective officials buy their votes by directing as much money to “their“ people as they possibly can.

Simplex3
04-18-2011, 07:04 AM
Medicare fraud pisses me off to no end. Instead of going after the fraudulent doctors they just cut available services to the people that really need it.

But lets let that doctor keep that money and in most instances keep getting it
Posted via Mobile Device

Docs who are caught defrauding Medicare wind up in a lot of trouble. Hell, I've known docs who *weren't* defrauding Medicare who had to fight them off. Add to it the rules are so damned complex you can wind up sideways without even knowing it and Medicare will be paying you for things they shouldn't be, then two years later come back to you and label you a criminal.

Amnorix
04-18-2011, 07:07 AM
I spend $10,000+ to experts to legally avoid paying taxes. We look for every angle.



Let's assume it's precisely $10,000 that you spend on experts to minimize (legally) your tax bill.

A minimum income earner would need to work nearly 35 weeks at 40 hours per week to make $10,000.

Oh, but wait -- he DOES pay FICA and FUDA, so that's about 8% of his pay, so make it more like 38 weeks, or about 8-1/2 months.

But he clearly should pay more in taxes because you need a bigger yacht...or another wing on your mansion...or something...

And I'm sure you're not having your business pay any of your personal expenses as perks? Your business leases your car, I imagine, you haven't paid for postage or cell phone bills in your business-owning life, etc. etc. All perfectly legal, but these are options that aren't available to Joe Employee.

:p

(apparently I feel like causing a war today...)

Simplex3
04-18-2011, 07:15 AM
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it costs him $10k to have his taxes done. My business this last year was very simple to do; it was all labor. I didn't have any holdings, didn't buy/sell any businesses or land or real property and I still paid almost $2k to my accountant. It's obscenely expensive to get your taxes done by someone competent.

I saved that much in what I probably would have paid in taxes, however. My accountant keeps track of what loopholes the politicians create for their big campaign donors and we exploit them to my benefit.

Amnorix
04-18-2011, 07:17 AM
Eliminate all taxes and go back to local volunteer militia.

LMAO

Amnorix
04-18-2011, 07:20 AM
Oooops, you are wrong as usual.

keep out of business accounting. Or business outsourcing. It appears you know neither.

Matter of fact, have you every run a business? Made payroll? Face the tough decisions of how to grow; or the tougher ones of how to shut down?

maybe you wouldn't be so liberal if you had.


If your small business is a C corp, then there's a good chance you screwed up in not choosing a pass through entity. But since you're spending 10K+ per year on tax advice, I doubt that's the case.

So your business entity probably IS pass through, but you've cited C corp just to make a point which, in turn, is not relevant because C corps aren't really designed for small businesses absent some unusual circumstances.

Amnorix
04-18-2011, 07:26 AM
47% don't pay income tax.

System is broken. Even the Treasury Secretary on the Sunday talk shows said so.

All the Liberal spinning can't change these facts.


All workers, however, pay payroll taxes. The segregation of payroll taxes from income taxes is really just semantics, since payroll taxes are, of course, PAID ON INCOME.

So there is NO WORKER in the United States that is legally paying less than 7.65% of his INCOME AS TAXES TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. So if that 47% means "working Americans", then it's really zero percent.

Simplex3
04-18-2011, 07:27 AM
All workers, however, pay payroll taxes. The segregation of payroll taxes from income taxes is really just semantics, since payroll taxes are, of course, PAID ON INCOME.

So there is NO WORKER in the United States that is legally paying less than 7.65% of his INCOME AS TAXES TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

Yes, but anyone who is only paying that much will get back more than that in straight dollars paid throughout their life. Not to mention the services we all share. That person still is a net negative to society.

Besides, I thought Social Security was a retirement thing, not a tax thing.

Amnorix
04-18-2011, 07:31 AM
Yes, but anyone who is only paying that much will get back more than that in straight dollars paid throughout their life. Not to mention the services we all share. That person still is a net negative to society.

If they live that long. But then, all workers who live long enough will get paid more TO them in retirement than they paid in, regardless of where on the economic spectrum they hang out. That's just a function of lifespan.

There is some degree of economic reallocation from the wealthier down to the less wealthy in the benefits calculations for SS. I acknowledge that. But primarily SS is reallocation from CURRENT workers to FORMER workers, not across the economic spectrum itself.

I didn't know that a person's value to society was solely a function of their tax payments. I'm gratified to know that you view me as a very valuable member of society. Very fulfilling.

Besides, I thought Social Security was a retirement thing, not a tax thing.


Not sure what you mean by this. There's no lockbox concept, as you know, and politicians play as many or more games with SS and its accounting as any other element of government budgeting. I support Social Security, but it needs dramatic reform due to changing demographics.

chris
04-18-2011, 07:38 AM
Let's assume it's precisely $10,000 that you spend on experts to minimize (legally) your tax bill.

A minimum income earner would need to work nearly 35 weeks at 40 hours per week to make $10,000.

Oh, but wait -- he DOES pay FICA and FUDA, so that's about 8% of his pay, so make it more like 38 weeks, or about 8-1/2 months.

But he clearly should pay more in taxes because you need a bigger yacht...or another wing on your mansion...or something...

And I'm sure you're not having your business pay any of your personal expenses as perks? Your business leases your car, I imagine, you haven't paid for postage or cell phone bills in your business-owning life, etc. etc. All perfectly legal, but these are options that aren't available to Joe Employee.

:p

(apparently I feel like causing a war today...)


You are right. we deduct everything we can think of. No cars or airplanes; we pay for our management team cell phones as a perk.

We pay way too much to "suits" to avoid paying tax. I would pay a flat tax of 23% to avoid the hassle and waste of resources/time.

At one time I made $4.67/hr (showing my age) working in a plastics plant working my way through college. I lived for my tax refund.

But by working my butt off and helping my Team get where they want to go, I'm here building companies and creating jobs. I own a small, 8 slip marina; but don't own a boat. Boats are money pits. :)

The American dream is work hard, work smart, work fast. Help people that want to be helped along the way. But for every 1 person that I've mentored, there have been 5 that decided they didn't want to make the sacrifices to be successful.

A flat tax would create a clean tax structure and create additional incentive for entrepreneurs to achieve.

47% have less incentive to achieve because the government is giving them handouts.

OK; i'm ducking into my foxhole.

chris
04-18-2011, 07:39 AM
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it costs him $10k to have his taxes done. My business this last year was very simple to do; it was all labor. I didn't have any holdings, didn't buy/sell any businesses or land or real property and I still paid almost $2k to my accountant. It's obscenely expensive to get your taxes done by someone competent.

I saved that much in what I probably would have paid in taxes, however. My accountant keeps track of what loopholes the politicians create for their big campaign donors and we exploit them to my benefit.

yep. Good accountants are worth their weight in gold.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2011, 07:42 AM
A canard. If you spend anytime in the US, you pay taxes, period.

Obviously he was talking about income tax.

chris
04-18-2011, 07:44 AM
If your small business is a C corp, then there's a good chance you screwed up in not choosing a pass through entity. But since you're spending 10K+ per year on tax advice, I doubt that's the case.

So your business entity probably IS pass through, but you've cited C corp just to make a point which, in turn, is not relevant because C corps aren't really designed for small businesses absent some unusual circumstances.

You are being civil so I will admit you are totally correct.

The primary reason you convert to a C is when a business matures to profitability or certain type of investors invest in your company.

BTW, there needs to be a business flat tax. GE should not have happened.

Amnorix
04-18-2011, 07:47 AM
You are right. we deduct everything we can think of. No cars or airplanes; we pay for our management team cell phones as a perk.

Of course you do. Every small business owner does. But keep in mind that 90% of America pays for that stuff AFTER taxes. You get it BEFORE.

No cars? WTF? Why the hell not? I guess you could be more conservative than most owners and either be concerned about corporate liability for an individual driving accident, or perhaps you buy your cars instead of leasing, which is fine, but most of small-business America tends to run that through the busienss, giving them a pre-tax car payment...


We pay way too much to "suits" to avoid paying tax. I would pay a flat tax of 23% to avoid the hassle and waste of resources/time.

At one time I made $4.67/hr (showing my age) working in a plastics plant working my way through college. I lived for my tax refund.

But by working my butt off and helping my Team get where they want to go, I'm here building companies and creating jobs. I own a small, 8 slip marina; but don't own a boat. Boats are money pits. :)

The American dream is work hard, work smart, work fast. Help people that want to be helped along the way. But for every 1 person that I've mentored, there have been 5 that decided they didn't want to make the sacrifices to be successful.

A flat tax would create a clean tax structure and create additional incentive for entrepreneurs to achieve.

47% have less incentive to achieve because the government is giving them handouts.

OK; i'm ducking into my foxhole.

Sure. The 47% is a false number giving the payroll taxes, which are really income taxes too, but whatever.

There are benefits to a flat tax, but a progressive tax allocates the burdens of funding teh government onto the shoulders of who can afford them. That's been the status quo for the entire 100 years that the federal income tax has existed.

If your town needs to build a wall for whatever reason, in a very short timeframe, are you going to demand that EVERY man and woman carry precisely 35 pounds of materials every trip, when Hulk Hogan over there is laughing about it, and that 60 year old arthritic woman over there is crying in pain? Because that's just FAIR?!

I've never understood the flat tax to be fair. It is, in fact, inherently unfair. And the concept that a flat tax will somehow force more people to work harder or be more productive is pretty assinine. You already have people that are stuck at the bottom fo the economic ladder for whatever reason -- be it skill set, desire, work ethic, native abilities, whatever. Tax them more and FORCE them to be productive? You think that makes sense? I suggest that it's obviously absurd.

SNR
04-18-2011, 07:56 AM
Let's assume it's precisely $10,000 that you spend on experts to minimize (legally) your tax bill.

A minimum income earner would need to work nearly 35 weeks at 40 hours per week to make $10,000.

Oh, but wait -- he DOES pay FICA and FUDA, so that's about 8% of his pay, so make it more like 38 weeks, or about 8-1/2 months.

But he clearly should pay more in taxes because you need a bigger yacht...or another wing on your mansion...or something...

And I'm sure you're not having your business pay any of your personal expenses as perks? Your business leases your car, I imagine, you haven't paid for postage or cell phone bills in your business-owning life, etc. etc. All perfectly legal, but these are options that aren't available to Joe Employee.

:p

(apparently I feel like causing a war today...)Heh. That's heh interesting. Heh.

Amnorix
04-18-2011, 07:58 AM
You are being civil so I will admit you are totally correct.

The primary reason you convert to a C is when a business matures to profitability or certain type of investors invest in your company.

I'm a corporate lawyer. I'm perfectly familiar with all of these concepts, though of course I defer to the accountants when it comes to tax structuring matters.

Obviously, havign outside investors is why you can't have your company fund your car. I bet things were different when it was closely held. ;)

The double tax of a C corp is pretty damn painful. I'm surprised you didn't go LLC instead. The S corp limitation on natural persons doesn't apply to LLCs. I haven't done much switching from S to LLC, so there may be factors there I'm not aware of.

BTW, there needs to be a business flat tax. GE should not have happened.

GE should not have happened? I'm missing the reference.

The problem with flat taxes, in the corporate world, is that Congress likes to reward behavior they like, and that means building in all kinds of deductions to encourage things like R&D (which is probably good) and a bunch of other things (which may or may not be good).

chris
04-18-2011, 07:59 AM
Of course you do. Every small business owner does. But keep in mind that 90% of America pays for that stuff AFTER taxes. You get it BEFORE.

No cars? WTF? Why the hell not? I guess you could be more conservative than most owners and either be concerned about corporate liability for an individual driving accident, or perhaps you buy your cars instead of leasing, which is fine, but most of small-business America tends to run that through the busienss, giving them a pre-tax car payment...



Personal hangup. ranks up there with reserved parking spaces, flying 1st/business class, and owning all the equity.

If you are building a Team where everyone is valued, has input, and owns equity, the above perks set a bad perception. i drive a beatup old F-150. Virtually everyone else drives a newer, fancier car.

I choose to find my tax breaks elsewhere.

Off to a meeting. have fun today.

Otter
04-18-2011, 08:04 AM
I'm >< close to saying "**** this" jump across the border then back and start a whole new life as "Jose 'El Guapo' Fernandez" so I'm going to need you guys to keep working your self to death and paying taxes while I pump out kids.

K?

And if you don't support me you're a bunch of racist, money grubbing, snobby republicans!!!

notorious
04-18-2011, 08:24 AM
A huge difference between an employee with a job vs. a business owner is this:




--Job guy gets his taxes bled slowly from him BEFORE he gets his paycheck. He automatically sets a budget (for survival) from what he receives afterwards.

--Business owner guy has to set a budget, receive every penny's worth of payment, then proceed to write a check to the Government. The business owner notices the money loss a lot more, plus they are writing a check directly out of pocket.



If a normal person had their fuel bills (vehicle) automatically deducted out of their paycheck, they would barely notice the price per gallon and automatically adjust their budget.

Business owner doesn't have that sweet ignorance.

We all know how that money will be wasted, which is the worst part.

LOCOChief
04-18-2011, 09:02 AM
It is an intelligent response to a retarded ****ing thread. I love how you come on here and work so hard to say how great your life is but all you do is bitch. You are a ****stick.

I really don't think that a dirty illegal mexican varmit like yourself has any place in a discussion regarding American Tax policies.

Baby Lee
04-18-2011, 09:15 AM
What was yours then? Why say something so far out of the realm of possibilities?
Posted via Mobile Device

Why did John Lennon write Imagine? ;)

FishingRod
04-18-2011, 09:16 AM
Let’s just assume for the sake of argument that, all the deductions were removed and a flat Tax was approved at 15% across the board. If someone makes $200,000 per year they pay $30,000 in taxes while someone makes $20,000 they pay $3000. Each person is allowed to use the same roads, has the same Army and navy protecting them and so forth. The person with the higher income is contributing $27,000 more for access to the same services, how is the little guy getting screwed in this equation? Those people not self employed could simply have the proper amount deducted from their checks eliminating the need to file an income tax refund.
This in its self would allow us to slash the size of the IRS and save countless dollars wasted on Federal Tax preparation.

notorious
04-18-2011, 09:19 AM
Let’s just assume for the sake of argument that, all the deductions were removed and a flat Tax was approved at 15% across the board. If someone makes $200,000 per year they pay $30,000 in taxes while someone makes $20,000 they pay $3000. Each person is allowed to use the same roads, has the same Army and navy protecting them and so forth. The person with the higher income is contributing $27,000 more for access to the same services, how is the little guy getting screwed in this equation? Those people not self employed could simply have the proper amount deducted from their checks eliminating the need to file an income tax refund.
This in its self would allow us to slash the size of the IRS and save countless dollars wasted on Federal Tax preparation.

Logical. Except for the percentage rate.



It all comes down to the rich being able to afford higher taxes. That is how the politicians rationalize the current system.

It benefits a majority of America.

I think the biggest complaint is HOW our money is spent as opposed to how much is taken.

petegz28
04-18-2011, 09:19 AM
Let's assume it's precisely $10,000 that you spend on experts to minimize (legally) your tax bill.

A minimum income earner would need to work nearly 35 weeks at 40 hours per week to make $10,000.

Oh, but wait -- he DOES pay FICA and FUDA, so that's about 8% of his pay, so make it more like 38 weeks, or about 8-1/2 months.

But he clearly should pay more in taxes because you need a bigger yacht...or another wing on your mansion...or something...

And I'm sure you're not having your business pay any of your personal expenses as perks? Your business leases your car, I imagine, you haven't paid for postage or cell phone bills in your business-owning life, etc. etc. All perfectly legal, but these are options that aren't available to Joe Employee.

:p

(apparently I feel like causing a war today...)

Would FUDA be an acronym for Fucked Up Democratic Administration?

KC native
04-18-2011, 09:29 AM
I'm >< close to saying "**** this" jump across the border then back and start a whole new life as "Jose 'El Guapo' Fernandez" so I'm going to need you guys to keep working your self to death and paying taxes while I pump out kids.

K?

And if you don't support me you're a bunch of racist, money grubbing, snobby republicans!!!

I really don't think that a dirty illegal mexican varmit like yourself has any place in a discussion regarding American Tax policies.

And some people out here have the nerve to say I race bait. :rolleyes:

Have fun growing old and bitter as the country changes around you, you racist fucksticks.

RNR
04-18-2011, 09:32 AM
And some people out here have the nerve to say I race bait. :rolleyes:

Have fun growing old and bitter as the country changes around you, you racist ****sticks.

For the worse~

Otter
04-18-2011, 09:40 AM
I smell bad breath, failure, lies an ex-con and child molester...what could it be?

:shrug:

FishingRod
04-18-2011, 09:43 AM
Logical. Except for the percentage rate.



It all comes down to the rich being able to afford higher taxes. That is how the politicians rationalize the current system.

It benefits a majority of America.

I think the biggest complaint is HOW our money is spent as opposed to how much is taken.

What would you think an appropriate percent would be that we are all required to donate to the general welfare of our country? Throw State and local in as well if you can. I think you are for the most part correct in that most of us can put up with the amount of taxes we now pay but, think with the kind of money being thrown in the pot we should continue to have the most powerful military in the world, Health care should be provided for all. No one should be homeless nor go hungry, the roads should be well maintained and our kids college should either be paid for or be a damn site more affordable. I kinda feel like Iím getting about $00.10 on the dollar return on my investment.

notorious
04-18-2011, 10:03 AM
What would you think an appropriate percent would be that we are all required to donate to the general welfare of our country? Throw State and local in as well if you can. I think you are for the most part correct in that most of us can put up with the amount of taxes we now pay but, think with the kind of money being thrown in the pot we should continue to have the most powerful military in the world, Health care should be provided for all. No one should be homeless nor go hungry, the roads should be well maintained and our kids college should either be paid for or be a damn site more affordable. I kinda feel like Iím getting about $00.10 on the dollar return on my investment.

I agree,hence the last line in my post you quoted.

KC native
04-18-2011, 10:22 AM
I smell bad breath, failure, lies an ex-con and child molester...what could it be?

:shrug:

It wasn't funny the first time you posted this and it's still not funny. Try again.

You are a racist coward.

Okie_Apparition
04-18-2011, 10:56 AM
I say we should welcome in our Mexican brothers & then together, take Canada!

Otter
04-18-2011, 11:02 AM
I say we should welcome in our Mexican brothers & then together, take Canada!

Why are you racist against Canadians?

Iowanian
04-18-2011, 11:03 AM
Heh, the booze is talkin' now; we KNOW who's ducking the question, Nancy--and it ain't banyon.

Answer the man. Heh. Or not, and stay the vagina you are. Heh. Go fugg the babysitter or maid--or somethin'. LMAO


Shouldn't you get back to the busy task of dropping American Education out of the top 100 in the world?

Okie_Apparition
04-18-2011, 11:05 AM
In a decade, decade & a half, Mexican-Americans will be the military. By then we will take Canada for their oil, if they have any left.

Otter
04-18-2011, 11:08 AM
In a decade, decade & a half, Mexican-Americans will be the military. By then we will take Canada for their oil, if they have any left.

Are you reading this people? Why is it allowed for Canadians to be treated this way when every other race is defended on this board!

Cave Johnson
04-18-2011, 11:11 AM
Where's the uproar over the 5M Americans that earned between $50K-1M and paid NO income taxes?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/45-of-households-owe-no-cnnm-1091487965.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode

Jaric
04-18-2011, 11:13 AM
Are you reading this people? Why is it allowed for Canadians to be treated this way when every other race is defended on this board!

We've all grown wearing of their beady eyes and flapping heads...

http://withfriendship.com/images/h/37447/south-park-canada-on-strike.png

notorious
04-18-2011, 11:14 AM
Where's the uproar over the 5M Americans that earned between $50K-1M and paid NO income taxes?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/45-of-households-owe-no-cnnm-1091487965.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode



Anger............Rising.............

Cave Johnson
04-18-2011, 11:19 AM
Anger............Rising.............

Hey, didn't you get the memo. You're not supposed to be angry over this.

Paying no taxes because you're poor = looter. Burn them as kindling.

Paying no taxes because of taking advantage of the tax code = just taking what the government offers. We should all be so lucky.

notorious
04-18-2011, 11:22 AM
Paying no taxes because of taking advantage of the tax code = just taking what the government offers. We should all be so lucky.


:mad:


I don't blame the rich for taking advantage, I blame the code for allowing it.

Iowanian
04-18-2011, 11:23 AM
Are they paying "no taxes" or have they paid in enough during the year that they owe no additional taxes?

FishingRod
04-18-2011, 11:37 AM
Are they paying "no taxes" or have they paid in enough during the year that they owe no additional taxes?

Yes there is a slight difference between the two. I suppose a person could have enough donations and write offs that they donít pay any federal income tax but I donít think it would be easy to pull off. One of My kids gets more money back than she pays in. College student Nice for her but it is still jacked up.

ChiTown
04-18-2011, 12:42 PM
I love getting distributions.:evil:

Amnorix
04-18-2011, 01:07 PM
Are they paying "no taxes" or have they paid in enough during the year that they owe no additional taxes?


According to the article, the former -- DID NOT PAY a dime of federal income taxes.

But in some cases it's because of foreign tax credits -- i.e. their income was derived from sources that resulted in their paying taxes to foreign governments instead of ours. Hard to bitch about that.

In other cases it's because their income was largely/exclusively in tax free munis etc. And you can't really bitch about that either, because making the munis etc. tax free makes them cheaper for the government to sell (i.e. they can pay a lower interest rate), so net/net that's not really any kind of scam job on the government or whatever.


Now if people know how car dealerships (depreciation!) and real estate magnates (depreciation) can be stupidly rich while paying no/nominal taxes, they'd really have something to bitch about.

J Diddy
04-18-2011, 01:27 PM
Would FUDA be an acronym for Fucked Up Democratic Administration?

Further up da ass

Mr. Flopnuts
04-18-2011, 02:06 PM
Yeah, like the lady I saw at the zoo today. Very overweight with three overweight kids, the mom in designer clothes with all the hair and jewelry, iPhone included, with the kids looking like they were straight out of Oliver Twist. Her with her $4 zoo drink and a $3 soft pretzel, them asking for some overly priced trinket and her telling them there wasn't enough money left over from their "assistance check".

Does that lady deserve my money? Because it sure looked to me like those three kids were dollar signs to her.

I'm sure we can find over the top examples on both sides of the fence to defend whatever point we are trying to make.

Simplex3
04-18-2011, 02:26 PM
I'm sure we can find over the top examples on both sides of the fence to defend whatever point we are trying to make.

I guess my point is that she'd have a much harder time pulling that stunt if it were up to private charities and she wasn't just getting an ATM card to an account that kept being filled with other people's money. Maybe the charity would give her reasonable clothes for herself *and* the kids.

SNR
04-18-2011, 02:31 PM
I really don't think that a dirty illegal mexican varmit like yourself has any place in a discussion regarding American Tax policies.Nobody else besides Native finds this shit appalling?

Simplex3
04-18-2011, 02:34 PM
Nobody else besides Native finds this shit appalling?

Not considering KcNative practically begs for this type of treatment. I won't participate and I won't condone it either but I'm not going to jump people for treating him how he wants to be treated. I finally blocked KcNative because I couldn't recall a post where he wasn't being a racist or calling someone a name.

Jaric
04-18-2011, 02:52 PM
Nobody else besides Native finds this shit appalling?

Stupid would be the word I would use. But then again KCNative seems more than capable of fighting his own battles so I try not to get involved.

KC native
04-18-2011, 03:06 PM
Nobody else besides Native finds this shit appalling?

Of course they don't. Otter, vail, and TMC all cheer this type of shit on. Check out his lovely little rep message for me

My yearly rant..I'm... 04-18-2011 01:17 PM LOCOChief you are a little weasal aren't you. Enjoy eating shit mexican

KC native
04-18-2011, 03:08 PM
Not considering KcNative practically begs for this type of treatment. I won't participate and I won't condone it either but I'm not going to jump people for treating him how he wants to be treated. I finally blocked KcNative because I couldn't recall a post where he wasn't being a racist or calling someone a name.

Fuck you. I only reciprocated what I've received. And I only call posters that are actually racist, racist. I disagree with several people on here and don't call them racist because they aren't.

KC native
04-18-2011, 03:08 PM
Stupid would be the word I would use. But then again KCNative seems more than capable of fighting his own battles so I try not to get involved.

:thumb:

Calcountry
04-18-2011, 03:09 PM
:thumb:How's that inflation working for you?

KC native
04-18-2011, 03:11 PM
How's that inflation working for you?

Deflation is still the bigger worry.

Mr. Kotter
04-18-2011, 08:22 PM
How's that inflation working for you? You are smoking weed, or injesting bunny turds, if you think we are ought of the woods on that one.

Ericgoodchief
04-23-2011, 04:02 AM
If you don't like the American way, you're free to try and make more somewhere else.


The revolutionary war was for a 'FREE' country.

If you don't like that then move back to a British colony like Canada and enjoy your free rationed healthcare and lackluster job growth.

Ericgoodchief
04-23-2011, 04:06 AM
A flat tax is a massive tax increase by the overwhelming majority of society, and a huge tax decrease for the wealthy.

I see no constructive reason for this to happen, other than overemotional wroughtness about an arbitrary concept of fairness that any massive corporation would love to promote.

Huh. :LOL:

What exactly do you do for a living?