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Wilson8
04-16-2011, 03:22 PM
With only a couple of week until the draft, I thought a few draft related threads might be good.

The most recent Scott Pioli press conference did not reveal much, but looking back over the past, you can get some ideas on the players the Chiefs will be looking at.

A few Scott Pioli quotes over the years that can be related to how the Chiefs might draft.

Pioli – “So the answer is we have a need at every position. Some are ranked higher than others for immediacy but that doesn’t mean that you run from another position. This goes into the whole thing of trying to find a delicate balance between best player available and need. It’s obvious to people I think what you all perceive and what we perceive certain needs are but again, you have to think ahead. You can’t focus in on a one-year or even a two-year frame of thinking because then you set yourself up for failure if you’re trying to build a consistent winner.”

Pioli - "Not to get caught up in the numbers. The things like height, weight and speed. The test numbers. It's not getting too caught up in numbers. I've made mistakes by getting caught up with the workouts. Tom Brady took some heat recently when they showed a video of his running a 40-yard dash. Tommy's speed and running has nothing to do with his pocket presence. Here is a guy, he has vision. He has the feel. He has the sense. He knows when to step up, so his athleticism is due to his awareness. Ted Bruschi, his instincts are incredible. They're rare. He plays a lot faster than what his numbers on paper would indicate. Ty Warren's strength-I remember when Ty was coming out, his overall wasn't great but he has this brute strength. Wes Welker is another guy. He has enough quickness to get away from folks."

Pioli - "We did not spend a lot of time on Eli (Manning) and that group of players at the top of the draft because we were so far back. Just from a process standpoint, if we're picking 30th, we don't spend much time. We try to be more efficient, because that is spending time on players that we know will be gone at the top part of the draft. We're better off spending time on the players who we know maybe be potentially available."

Pioli - "For us, there is some combination of best player and need, but it's not the same formula every time. It's not always 50-50. Sometimes it's 70-30. Sometimes it's 80-20. That's part of the strategy when you're on the clock - knowing what other opportunities are out there."

Pioli – “Defense wins championships. Offense just tells you by how much.”

Pioli – “You want—no, more than want, you need—to find people who will do the right thing most of the time.”

Pioli – “Reliability. Dependability. Accountability. Discipline. But these words have been used so often and so much in vain that they shrivel and fray and lose their color in the light of day.”

Pioli - "You know, there are a lot of ways to win, but there's only one way for me to win and be proud of winning."

Pioli - "The key is sustainability. Do you want to build a team that will win once and then implode? I don't think that's the job. The job is to make the difficult decisions so you can build the kind of team that can be in position to win every single year."

The above quotes are from Pioli’s years with the Patriots and the last two years with the Chiefs. If you want to read an excellent article about Scott Pioli, go to - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1179410/index.htm#ixzz1JioVrQRS

Chocolate Hog
04-16-2011, 03:40 PM
I saw his interview on the news maybe i'm reading into his comment too much but he said theres a need at every position. If this were true the smart thing would be to trade down.

factortobe
04-16-2011, 03:44 PM
We should trade the first pick

Wilson8
04-16-2011, 03:57 PM
I saw his interview on the news maybe i'm reading into his comment too much but he said theres a need at every position. If this were true the smart thing would be to trade down.

It would be OK to trade down and that would probably be the best thing for next year.

But if you look at the Pioli quotes, with building a consistent winner, what if a very good QB or OT fell to them? They need a center (Wigemann), nose tackle (Edwards), wide receiver (Chambers), and outside linebacker (Vrabel) but they also need QB and OT that will keep the team strong for years to come.

Wilson8
04-16-2011, 04:04 PM
I think the Chiefs could trade out of the 1st round and get another pick but then you have to be able to draft a player in the later round that can make an positive impact for the team.

Old Dog
04-16-2011, 04:06 PM
With only a couple of week until the draft, I thought a few draft related threads might be good.

Yeah, it's too bad there's not a subsection of the site dedicated to the draft. They oughta do that.

Demonpenz
04-16-2011, 04:07 PM
I have a feeling we are trading out of #1 to get 2 second round picks.

Wilson8
04-16-2011, 04:08 PM
I know the past two years draft record indicates that Pioli likes SEC players that were team captains. Anybody heard or seen a quote from Scott that says they look for captains or SEC Conference players?

Chiefshrink
04-16-2011, 04:13 PM
[QUOTE=Wilson8;7570255]It would be OK to trade down and that would probably be the best thing for next year.

Especially during a lock out yr where you can't fill "immediate needs" with FA not happening until after the draft:thumb:

Wilson8
04-16-2011, 04:13 PM
Yeah, it's too bad there's not a subsection of the site dedicated to the draft. They oughta do that.

Very true but since the draft starts Thursday April 28th, we usually starting bringing some of the talk over here.

BossChief
04-16-2011, 04:44 PM
Fuck that noise Wilson8...you can post your stuff anywhere you want.

Your contributions are always appreciated by some of us.

...


I too think that a trade down this year is likely most beneficial to our future success unless a blue chipper drops to our pick.

Wilson8
04-17-2011, 03:33 PM
Found this Pioli quote from when he was asked about McCluster and Arenas after KC drafted them.

"It's definitely something that hasn't stopped me yet. Both cut their teeth in what many believe is the toughest conference in college football, the SEC."

PGM
04-17-2011, 03:39 PM
Fuck that noise Wilson8...you can post your stuff anywhere you want.

Your contributions are always appreciated by some of us....


I too think that a trade down this year is likely most beneficial to our future success unless a blue chipper drops to our pick.

Seconded.

CoMoChief
04-17-2011, 03:42 PM
Maybe CP should start a draftplanet.

KCrockaholic
04-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Nothing wrong with posting this on a Chiefs message board. Most of us are diehards, right?

KCrockaholic
04-17-2011, 03:50 PM
Found this Pioli quote from when he was asked about McCluster and Arenas after KC drafted them.

"It's definitely something that hasn't stopped me yet. Both cut their teeth in what many believe is the toughest conference in college football, the SEC."

It is the best conference.....Look at our draft picks man.

Tyson Jackson SEC
Eric Berry SEC
McCluster SEC
Arenas SEC
Kendrick Lewis SEC
Ryan Succop SEC

...IDK I probably missed a couple, but Pioli loves him some SEC.

Wilson8
04-17-2011, 03:59 PM
Several CP members have made statements about the strong connection between the SEC Conference and a Pioli draft, but I'd hadn't bothered to go looking for a Pioli quote.

PGM
04-17-2011, 04:02 PM
Nothing wrong with posting this on a Chiefs message board. Most of us are diehards, right?

I've never understood the butthurt over some draft stuff posted on the main forum. God forbid a poop or Beaker thread (could be argued they are the same) drop to page 2.

DaFace
04-17-2011, 04:02 PM
Yeah, it's too bad there's not a subsection of the site dedicated to the draft. They oughta do that.

Draft planet sucks.
Posted via Mobile Device

KCrockaholic
04-17-2011, 04:13 PM
Draft planet sucks.
Posted via Mobile Device

:LOL:

Just funny seeing a mod say that.....And in a way, I agree....It doesn't get enough action.

Wilson8
04-17-2011, 04:25 PM
Probably anybody attempting to pick KC's 2011 draft need to include at least 3 SEC players and if they are a team captain, that is a double plus.

Not saying these are going to be the Chiefs picks, but these are guys that meet that requirement.

C Mike Pouncey Florida (1), OT Derek Sherrod Mississippi State (1), TE Luke Stocker Tennessee (2), LB Kelvin Sheppard LSU (3), NT Jerrell Powe Mississippi (3), QB Greg McElroy Alabama (6), and S Ahmad Black Florida (6).

Wilson8
04-17-2011, 04:32 PM
I like the draftplanet. I think it serves a good purpose BUT it's two weeks before the NFL draft...

Okie_Apparition
04-17-2011, 04:33 PM
Pioli uses goat's milk soap on draft day to keep him looking fresh/thread can stay in lounge now

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-17-2011, 04:43 PM
You have to have someone who wants to trade down. Every year, people always want to trade down. Jesus H. Christ himself could be there at 21, and people would still want to trade down.

Wilson8
04-17-2011, 04:50 PM
Quarterback

Currently on KC Chiefs Roster and status

Matt Cassel is 28 years old with 6 years of NFL experience. Matt is due a 7 million bonus before next season begins but it is pretty certain that Scott Pioli is completely committed to Cassel and he will be Kansas City’s quarterback.

Brodie Croyle is 28 years old with 5 years of NFL experience. Brodie Croyle is an unrestricted free agent and his days as a Kansas City Chief appear to be coming to an end.

Tyler Palko is 27 years old with 1 year of NFL experience. Tyler should be fighting for his quarterbacking future with the Chiefs next year. His future depends on how well Tyler responds to new QB coach Jim Zorn and the other QBs the Chiefs might draft or sign.

Matt Cassel is the Chiefs starting QB but if he goes down the Chiefs would tank. Bringing in good backup is very important for the Chiefs.

Free Agency
There are several interesting possibilities here, each with their own unique story.

Marc Bulger is a 34 year old free agent from the Baltimore Ravens. If Bulger signed here, he’d give the Chiefs a backup that could come in and start and help the Chiefs win games. He would be reunited with Jim Zorn as his QB coach. Marc might have the chance to start with another team like the Arizona Cardinals so he will probably sign elsewhere.

Drew Stanton is a 26 year old free agent from the Detroit Lions. Drew might be a good backup under the direction of Zorn. Although Stanton is much bigger than Croyle at 230 lbs, he seems to have some of the same injury problems.

Tarvaris Jackson is a 27 year old free agent from the Minnesota Vikings. I again go to Zorn as a possible guru to help Jackson become a good quarterback. Minnesota drafted him as their quarterback of the future. Maybe he is worth another chance.

Matt Lienart is a 27 years old free agent from the Houston Texans. The big left handed QB would be an interesting addition because of his past with Todd Haley at Arizona and Matt Cassel at USC. Not sure that that the past history has been positive or Matt’s attitude towards football meets Pioli’s character standards.

2011 NFL QB Draft

Quarterbacks that the Chiefs have reported to interviewed or worked out.

1. Colin Kaepernik QB Nevada Rd 1 - 2
2. Andy Dalton QB TCU Rd 2 – 3
3. Rick Stanzi QB Iowa Rd 4 – 5
4. Pat Devlin QB Delaware Rd 4 – 5
5. Nathan Enderle QB Idaho Rd 7
6. T.J. Yates QB North Carolina 7 – FA

The Chiefs certainly have the need to draft a QB and to sign a free agent.

Prediction – Remember this is only for entertainment, so don’t let it upset the day. The Chiefs draft Ricky Stanzi (5th rd) and sign Tarvaris Jackson.

I know right after talking about the SEC I go pick a Big Ten player, but I think it seems probable.

Wilson8
04-17-2011, 04:51 PM
You have to have someone who wants to trade down. Every year, people always want to trade down. Jesus H. Christ himself could be there at 21, and people would still want to trade down.

Can he play QB or OT?

Wilson8
04-17-2011, 04:57 PM
Look at the past draft history for NFL teams for 2nd and 3rd round picks. It's not pretty. I hope Pioli can do better but I like the odds better of keeping the 21st pick and getting the best player there.

DaFace
04-17-2011, 05:02 PM
:LOL:

Just funny seeing a mod say that.....And in a way, I agree....It doesn't get enough action.

To clarify, I have no issue with the quality of content. I just hate that all of the good football discussion this time of year is taken out of the Lounge. It really takes away from the Lounge's personality, especially given that the lockout has destroyed just about any other type of football news that we normally talk about.

Saccopoo
04-17-2011, 05:19 PM
It is the best conference.....Look at our draft picks man.

Tyson Jackson SEC
Eric Berry SEC
McCluster SEC
Arenas SEC
Kendrick Lewis SEC
Ryan Succop SEC

...IDK I probably missed a couple, but Pioli loves him some SEC.

Derek Sherrod, OT; Mississippi State: 6'5", 321 lbs.

Team Captain
Four Year Starter at left tackle
Academic All-American & finalist for the Campbell Trophy
Former HS All-American and State POY

http://nflsoup.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Derek-Sherrod1.jpg

Baltimore is known to covet him for this next draft and he might not get by Indy at pick 22.

Book it that if he's available, he's the Chiefs pick.

Chocolate Hog
04-17-2011, 05:40 PM
You have to have someone who wants to trade down. Every year, people always want to trade down. Jesus H. Christ himself could be there at 21, and people would still want to trade down.

It's a little different when Eric Berry is there to draft opposed to Robert fucking Ayers. None of these players will make a drastic impact if we can trade down to fill out more holes or even gain another 1st for next year that'd be great. This is a 4-12 team with that schedule we'll need all the picks we can get to land Andrew Luck.

go bowe
04-17-2011, 08:17 PM
4-12?

will it be that bad?

Chocolate Hog
04-17-2011, 09:04 PM
If you look at the schedule I think so. We're pretty comparable to the 2010 Bengals who won games by running the ball and playing good defense. Keep in Mind Cassel has only beat 1 playoff team in 2 years here and that was against the 7-9 Seahawks.

HotRoute
04-17-2011, 09:31 PM
I think it would be hilarious if there was a lockout, the chiefs would miss one of the tougher schedules or part of it at least

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-17-2011, 09:35 PM
It's a little different when Eric Berry is there to draft opposed to Robert fucking Ayers. None of these players will make a drastic impact if we can trade down to fill out more holes or even gain another 1st for next year that'd be great. This is a 4-12 team with that schedule we'll need all the picks we can get to land Andrew Luck.

This team isn't getting Andrew Luck, because this team isn't getting rid of Matt Cassel for another 4 years.

Chocolate Hog
04-17-2011, 10:01 PM
This team isn't getting Andrew Luck, because this team isn't getting rid of Matt Cassel for another 4 years.

Skip the theatrics if Luck is there when we pick next year he's ours. And the point still stands we'd benefit much more having an extra first next year and a few more picks in the later rounds this year. The whole lockout thing ruined the Chiefs season this team more than anyone needed free agency to fill some holes.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-17-2011, 10:06 PM
Skip the theatrics if Luck is there when we pick next year he's ours. And the point still stands we'd benefit much more having an extra first next year and a few more picks in the later rounds this year. The whole lockout thing ruined the Chiefs season this team more than anyone needed free agency to fill some holes.

This team is not picking #1 overall next year, but if it is, an entirely new administration should be making that selection.

L.A. Chieffan
04-17-2011, 10:21 PM
fucking high if you think we'll get luck

HotRoute
04-17-2011, 10:59 PM
Here's to hoping luck has a bad year and ends up slipping like locker (supposedly will) and falls to the chiefs, wherever we pick

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2011, 01:27 AM
This team is not picking #1 overall next year, but if it is, an entirely new administration should be making that selection.

I don't think we'll be picking first either but 4-12 is likely especially if Cassel or Hali go down. That gets us a top 5 pick.

salame
04-18-2011, 02:04 AM
we should draft Erin Curry

Wilson8
04-18-2011, 05:48 AM
Derek Sherrod, OT; Mississippi State: 6'5", 321
Book it that if he's available, he's the Chiefs pick.

Sac,

I know you have some opinions on offensive linemen, changes that could be made, free agents, and draft picks. Could you add a post to this for the line?

I know when I did the QB stuff, it takes a while to put together. I figure you already had something you could add here.

ForeverChiefs58
04-18-2011, 06:04 AM
Derek Sherrod, OT; Mississippi State: 6'5", 321 lbs.

Team Captain
Four Year Starter at left tackle
Academic All-American & finalist for the Campbell Trophy
Former HS All-American and State POY

Book it that if he's available, he's the Chiefs pick.


I would think if Pouncy is still there, he would be the pick. Maybe NT, if not RD 1 then prob RD 2. JMO

ct
04-18-2011, 12:36 PM
I also think Sherrod is out pick, but yet I also hope we move down to gain another pick in 2nd/3rd.

KCrockaholic
04-18-2011, 12:50 PM
The problem with O line at 21 is that we can get the same type of value at the top of the 2nd round. IMO Sherrod is a 2nd rounder. Castanzo, Carimi, Pouncey (thanks to versatility), and Tyron Smith are 1st rounders. But solid lineman can be had in the 2nd.

Saccopoo
04-18-2011, 01:28 PM
The problem with O line at 21 is that we can get the same type of value at the top of the 2nd round. IMO Sherrod is a 2nd rounder. Castanzo, Carimi, Pouncey (thanks to versatility), and Tyron Smith are 1st rounders. But solid lineman can be had in the 2nd.

You can say that about any position.

The only real argument for a potential player at that spot for the Chiefs, beyond the offensive linemen, would be Jon Baldwin. His blend of size and speed is unique in the draft once you get past the top two guys in AJ Green and Julio Jones. Chiefs need a wide receiver as much as they need a decent offensive tackle and he would make sense at #21.

In terms of player value, a guy like Sherrod, Costanzo or Carimi is a solid pick at 21, and they won't be there at the top of the second. And even if they are, we aren't picking at the "top" of the second round anyway. So, I really don't understand what you are saying.

Teams that will be looking hard at the offensive line are:

#9 Dallas
#13 Detroit
#17 New England
#18 San Diego
#19 New York
#21 Kansas City
#22 Indianapolis
#23 Philadelphia
#26 Baltimore
#27 Atlanta
#28 New England (if they don't pick one at 17)
#29 Chicago

You also have to be aware of the scheme, and Haley runs a zone blocking scheme which requires a more athletic player versus a mauler. Costanzo would be near ideal, but Sherrod and Solder also fit the mold.

After the top five OT's (Costanzo, Carimi, Smith, Sherrod, Solder), you get into a less athletic group comprised of "maulers" like Ijalana, Watkins, Cannon, Rackley, Ziemba and Carpenter. The next tier is comprised of "right tackle only" players such as Franklin, Gilbert, Barksdale, Brewer, etc.

Then there are the diamond in the rough guys that are always there in the late rounds.

But if the Chiefs have a shot at one of the top five OT guys, it would be a solid positional value pick at 21.

KCrockaholic
04-18-2011, 01:31 PM
You can say that about any position.

The only real argument for a potential player at that spot for the Chiefs, beyond the offensive linemen, would be Jon Baldwin. His blend of size and speed is unique in the draft once you get past the top two guys in AJ Green and Julio Jones. Chiefs need a wide receiver as much as they need a decent offensive tackle and he would make sense at #21.

In terms of player value, a guy like Sherrod, Costanzo or Carimi is a solid pick at 21, and they won't be there at the top of the second. And even if they are, we aren't picking at the "top" of the second round anyway. So, I really don't understand what you are saying.

Teams that will be looking hard at the offensive line are:

#9 Dallas
#13 Detroit
#17 New England
#18 San Diego
#19 New York
#21 Kansas City
#22 Indianapolis
#23 Philadelphia
#26 Baltimore
#27 Atlanta
#28 New England (if they don't pick one at 17)
#29 Chicago

You also have to be aware of the scheme, and Haley runs a zone blocking scheme which requires a more athletic player versus a mauler. Costanzo would be near ideal, but Sherrod and Solder also fit the mold.

After the top five OT's (Costanzo, Carimi, Smith, Sherrod, Solder), you get into a less athletic group comprised of "maulers" like Ijalana, Watkins, Cannon, Rackley, Ziemba and Carpenter. The next tier is comprised of "right tackle only" players such as Franklin, Gilbert, Barksdale, Brewer, etc.

Then there are the diamond in the rough guys that are always there in the late rounds.

But if the Chiefs have a shot at one of the top five OT guys, it would be a solid positional value pick at 21.

I was thinking of the possibility of trading back and picking up extra picks along with drafting a guy like Smith, Sherrod, or even Pouncey in the 2nd.

And 1 of those guys in bold will fall to round 2. I'd take any of them in the 2nd round.

Castonzo would be great in our ZBS. But I think Tyron Smith would be a better fit because he NEEDS to be in a ZBS. He's light, and quick. And he can play RT....I know you're so against Albert as our LT, but that's the way it's gonna be. IF we draft a OT, it will be a guy to play RT, not LT. And Smith has tons of RT experience.

Saccopoo
04-18-2011, 01:46 PM
I was thinking of the possibility of trading back and picking up extra picks along with drafting a guy like Smith, Sherrod, or even Pouncey in the 2nd.

And 1 of those guys in bold will fall to round 2. I'd take any of them in the 2nd round.

I don't see us trading back. It hasn't been part of Pioli's draft philosophy while with the Chiefs and other than trading up for a couple of tight ends, there hasn't been any movement at all in the past two drafts.

I think he'll stay pat at #21 and go with a strong positional value pick, which looks like OT at this point.

I don't think that Smith or Pouncey is going to be there at #21 anyway. (Even though I'm not completely sold on Smith as a top tackle when compared to Sherrod, Costanzo, Carimi and Solder - he was only a one year starter at right tackle for USC and didn't work out at the combine. Too much of a gamble where the four previously mentioned players are all three and four year starters, Academic All Americans, All-Conference/All-American players. They are almost interchangeable in terms of their size, athleticism,, intelligence, experience and on the field production. Smith simply doesn't have the pedigree or experience and I think he's the biggest gamble of the bunch.)

I think Pouncey goes early based on his brothers success, but I think he's a pure guard rather than a center. He was dominant on the field after the snap, but he struggled with the hand off all season when he moved to center as a senior. And while I think that an offensive tackle is well worth a first round selection, particularly at #21 where the Chiefs are picking, I can't envision ever justifying a guard with a first round pick. (And I think that Rod Hudson is far and away the best guard prospect in this draft. He's a clone of Will Shields and I think that, barring injury, he'll have a similar pro career.)

Saccopoo
04-18-2011, 02:08 PM
Castonzo would be great in our ZBS. But I think Tyron Smith would be a better fit because he NEEDS to be in a ZBS. He's light, and quick. And he can play RT....I know you're so against Albert as our LT, but that's the way it's gonna be. IF we draft a OT, it will be a guy to play RT, not LT. And Smith has tons of RT experience.

That's a valid argument - if one is okay with Albert at left tackle. As you said, I'm not a big fan of him there as he has not shown any positive growth and production at the position. He's had three years to get it, and it hasn't happened. It's time to move him inside, where I do think he'll be very productive and would give the Chiefs an experience player in Haley's system as we transition from the Brian Waters era.

As I stated on the Draft Planet, I would target current Denver Bronco RT Ryan Harris as the #1 priority in free agency, and would be fine with even overpaying for his services as the Chiefs have a lot of cap room to work with. He excels at the RT position in a zone scheme.

The Chiefs would then take one of the top OT's in the draft, put him at LT playing next to Albert at LG and then they can draft a center in the subsequent rounds. (There are a lot of very solid centers in this draft, from a potential round two pick of Hudson or Wisniewski, to Kirkpatrick, Taylor, Linnenkohl, Baxter, Bartholomew and Barnes.)

I personally like either Costanzo or Sherrod and think either would be very effective in the zone scheme.

LT: Sherrod/Costanzo
LG: Albert
C: ? (Rod Hudson early or Zane Taylor later would be my choice)
RG: Asamoah
RT: Harris

Richardson is your backup, swing guy at tackle, and Lilja is your interior line backup.

That would be one of the better lines in the NFL IMO.

Only two draft picks and one free agent signing. Easy as pie.

Saccopoo
04-18-2011, 02:29 PM
However, the more I think about it, there is a chance that the Chiefs will surprise a lot of people and go with a defensive pick and select:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/568082/muhammad-wilkerson.jpg
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0415/ny_muhammad_wilkerson_200.jpg

Muhammad Wilkerson, DT/DE; Temple: 6'4", 315 lbs.

It's obvious that Pioli has a hard on for the five tech defensive end position and really wants a "prototype" guy at the spot. Alex Magee was drafted in the third round in 2009, but didn't pan out and I'm not sure that he's all that thrilled about guys like Shaun Smith and Glenn Dorsey playing the five tech when they are more of a 4-3 uptackle type player.

Wilkerson ended the 2010 season with a team best 13 tackles for a loss and 9.5 sacks and ran a 4.96 40 at the Combine. He's agile and quick for a guy his size, which is darn near "prototype" for a five tech in a 3-4.

The Chiefs have scheduled a private workout with Wilkerson (they also worked out last years first rounder Eric Berry) and if he's on the board when the Chiefs pick, he might be the guy who is sitting on top of their draft big board.

kitten_mittons
04-19-2011, 07:11 PM
Did not read entire thread. Was probably full of retarded remarks overrating a bunch of your players. Here's real draft advice. Quarterback. Until KC gets one. . . they are not a threat.