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View Full Version : Chiefs Late night bullshit: trade the last 10 first rounders.


Direckshun
04-18-2011, 11:23 PM
It doesn't have to be a good thread. It's a football thread.

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green)
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker)
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee

Direckshun
04-18-2011, 11:24 PM
2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) A
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina F
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State B
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker) F
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas B
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State A
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU A
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU B
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU D
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee B

Go Chiefs.

DA_T_84
04-18-2011, 11:27 PM
Trade....?


gggggggrade?

Buck
04-18-2011, 11:27 PM
I don't know who you could have had instead of Larry Johnson (Polamalu?), but I'd give that one an A.

He didn't turn into a complete failure for some time. It was a nice pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2011, 11:39 PM
Sims did a lot more in his second year than Jackson did. He also excelled at being just a "guy", and he did it at a later pick than Jackson did, and he was thought to be worthy of the pick, not hailed as a universal reach.

34 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 FF, and 1 INT

Jackson in 2010:

31 tackles, 1 sack, 0 FF, 0 INT

Jackson hasn't just been bad, he's been bad relative to Ryan Sims.

JASONSAUTO
04-18-2011, 11:40 PM
Didn't jackson miss some games due to injury?
Posted via Mobile Device

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2011, 11:42 PM
It doesn't have to be a good thread. It's a football thread.

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) B-
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina F
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State B+
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker) F
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas B-
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State A-
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU A-
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU B-
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU F-
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee A



..

J Diddy
04-18-2011, 11:43 PM
Sims did a lot more in his second year than Jackson did. He also excelled at being just a "guy", and he did it at a later pick than Jackson did, and he was thought to be worthy of the pick, not hailed as a universal reach.

34 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 FF, and 1 INT

Jackson in 2010:

31 tackles, 1 sack, 0 FF, 0 INT

Jackson hasn't just been bad, he's been bad relative to Ryan Sims.

I would agree except for one thing. Sims played in a 4-3, jackson 3-4

JASONSAUTO
04-18-2011, 11:43 PM
Yep hamas. Sims played 16 games in year two.

Jackson played in 12 .
Posted via Mobile Device

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2011, 11:44 PM
Didn't jackson miss some games due to injury?
Posted via Mobile Device

I actually beautified TJ's stats a little. He had 19 solo tackles and 12 assists.
Sims had 34 solos and 4 assists.

pr_capone
04-18-2011, 11:44 PM
Trade:

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) - Undo trade and draft DE Marcus Stroud
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina - Undo trade with Dallas and draft DT John Henderson
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State - Undo trade with Pitt and draft S Troy Polamalu
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker) - Undo trade and draft OT Chris Snee
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas - Draft Aaron Rogers
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State - Cannot be improved on.
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU - Cannot be improved on
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU - Draft Jerod Mayo
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU - Draft Michael Crabtree
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee - Cannot be improved on

Grade:

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) - B+
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina - F
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State - B+
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker) - F
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas - B-
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State - A-
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU - A
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU - C
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU - D
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee - A

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2011, 11:46 PM
I would agree except for one thing. Sims played in a 4-3, jackson 3-4

Which might make sense, except for the fact that guys playing the same position as Jackson had 7 sacks last year (Gilberry) or 69 tackles (Dorsey).

It's obvious that some guys can impact the game from that position.

Rams Fan
04-18-2011, 11:48 PM
Trade:

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) - Undo trade and draft DE Marcus Stroud

You'd really want the Chiefs to draft Stroud instead of trading for Green?

J Diddy
04-18-2011, 11:49 PM
Which might make sense, except for the fact that guys playing the same position as Jackson had 7 sacks last year (Gilberry) or 69 tackles (Dorsey).

It's obvious that some guys can impact the game from that position.

I dunno. I'll wait for year 3. I go on record as saying if after the 3rd year he doesn't improve dramatically then ya, f-.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2011, 11:50 PM
I dunno. I'll wait for year 3. I go on record as saying if after the 3rd year he doesn't improve dramatically then ya, f-.

That's fair, too.

Discuss Thrower
04-18-2011, 11:52 PM
Trade....?


gggggggrade?

kr-kristie alley... v-val kilmer... g-g-global warming?

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2011, 11:54 PM
Trade:

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) - Undo trade and draft DE Marcus Stroud
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina - Undo trade with Dallas and draft DT John Henderson
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State - Undo trade with Pitt and draft S Troy Polamalu
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker) - Undo trade and draft OT Chris Snee
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas - Draft Aaron Rogers
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State - Cannot be improved on.
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU - Cannot be improved on
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU - Draft Jerod Mayo
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU - Draft Michael Crabtree
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee - Cannot be improved on

Grade:

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) - B+
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina - F
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State - B+
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker) - F
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas - B-
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State - A-
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU - A
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU - C
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU - D
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee - A


That makes no sense. As a new regime who are you going to start at QB? Trent Dilfer?

DA_T_84
04-18-2011, 11:55 PM
kr-kristie alley...F v-val kilmer...A+ g-g-global warming?I for incomplete.

J Diddy
04-18-2011, 11:55 PM
That makes no sense. As a new regime who are you going to start at QB? Trent Dilfer?



Todd fucking Collins bitches.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2011, 11:56 PM
It doesn't have to be a good thread. It's a football thread.

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) B+
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina D
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State B+
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker) F
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas B
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State A
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU B+
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU B
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU C
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee A++++++

The last 4 or 5 years have been pretty good picks except Tyson Jackson then again every time has a bust first round draft pick now and then. Better hope Pioli trades out or we'll have another this year.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-18-2011, 11:57 PM
That makes no sense. As a new regime who are you going to start at QB? Trent Dilfer?

The conventional mythology holds that Brees was the guy at 12 if not for Green.

Chocolate Hog
04-18-2011, 11:58 PM
The conventional mythology holds that Brees was the guy at 12 if not for Green.

I'm calling bullshit. It would have been a D-linemen that never paned out.

Rams Fan
04-18-2011, 11:59 PM
The conventional mythology holds that Brees was the guy at 12 if not for Green.

Weren't there a few knocks on Brees' height, though?

And do you think Vermeil would have wanted to groom a QB when instead he could trade for a QB that he was familiar with and showed some potential?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:01 AM
I've said this a number of times, but it is still important. There are different kinds of busts:

Some guys are expected to do a lot, are conventionally thought of as excellent choices, and bust anyway. It's hard to bust people's balls over picks like that. When a guy like Gallery busts, you can't really blame anyone for taking him. Shit just happens some times.

But when you reach for a guy who then busts, or looks like he's going to bust (DHB, Tyson Jackson) it's an entirely different matter altogether.

KurtCobain
04-19-2011, 12:02 AM
Brees would've been king in Kansas City. Bigger than his is in Nawlins.

Chocolate Hog
04-19-2011, 12:02 AM
I don't think Vermiel wanted to groom a QB and looking at how the team was ran his last few seasons i'm not sure he had any intent on staying more than 3 years. I remember when we first hired him there were talks about signing Troy Aikman.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:02 AM
Weren't there a few knocks on Brees' height, though?

And do you think Vermeil would have wanted to groom a QB when instead he could trade for a QB that he was familiar with and showed some potential?

I'm sure that Vermeil wanted to, and that's undoubtedly why they did it, but there are people in KC Radio who claimed that they saw the Chiefs' big board and that Brees was the guy at 12 if the trade for Green couldn't be worked out.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:03 AM
The conventional mythology holds that Brees was the guy at 12 if not for Green.



brees went in the 2nd right?

Was it the height that knocked him?

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:04 AM
Brees would've been king in Kansas City. Bigger than his is in Nawlins.

Picture if the Dolphins didn't back out of their contract agreement with Brees and didn't trade for Culpepper....

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:04 AM
brees went in the 2nd right?

Was it the height that knocked him?

That, and the system he played in. Tiller's offense was more of a run-and-shoot, but it was a precursor to a lot of the spread O's we see today.

pr_capone
04-19-2011, 12:05 AM
You'd really want the Chiefs to draft Stroud instead of trading for Green?

Yup. I would have thrown a couple of lower round picks at QBs and hope to hit on a Sage Rosenfels or a David Garrard.

Coulda picked up Flutie in FA in 01 and had a scrappy offense for a year or two to match a balanced defense.

And before people start hating on Flutie...

2001 Flutie / 294 for 521 - 3,464 yards 15TD 18INT

2001 Green / 296 for 523 - 3,783 yards 17TD 24INT

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:06 AM
Yup. I would have thrown a couple of lower round picks at QBs and hope to hit on a Sage Rosenfels or a David Garrard.

Coulda picked up Flutie in FA in 01 and had a scrappy offense for a year or two to match a balanced defense.



awww the dave krieg method, don't know if stroud would've made us balanced

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:07 AM
I don't agree with the decision that we made in relation to Green, but you do have to admit that it makes sense in line with the logic of how Vermeil constructed his roster. The guy hated rookies and wanted to win now. Thus, why not get a guy who was a fit for his system and didn't need to learn the verbiage, or the mechanics of said system.

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:07 AM
Yup. I would have thrown a couple of lower round picks at QBs and hope to hit on a Sage Rosenfels or a David Garrard.

Coulda picked up Flutie in FA in 01 and had a scrappy offense for a year or two to match a balanced defense.

I don't think that's possible since Garrard was drafted in 2002...

Anyways, the trade for Green isn't bad considering the player the Rams picked and the fact that Green was a pretty decent QB.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:09 AM
I don't agree with the decision that we made in relation to Green, but you do have to admit that it makes sense in line with the logic of how Vermeil constructed his roster. The guy hated rookies and wanted to win now. Thus, why not get a guy who was a fit for his system and didn't need to learn the verbiage, or the mechanics of said system.


I loved Trent Green. My son was named after Trent Green. He was born in 2002. Need I say more.

Chocolate Hog
04-19-2011, 12:10 AM
I don't think that's possible since Garrard was drafted in 2002...

Anyways, the trade for Green isn't bad considering the player the Rams picked and the fact that Green was a pretty decent QB.

Stealing Tony Horne from you guys was better.

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:10 AM
I loved Trent Green. My son was named after Trent Green. He was born in 2002. Need I say more.

Dude went in and got a hair cut from my barber in 2008, need I say more?

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:11 AM
Stealing Tony Horne from you guys was better.



Yep that worked magically for the first 3 preseason games.

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:11 AM
Stealing Tony Horne from you guys was better.

Dante Hall for the win.

RedThat
04-19-2011, 12:12 AM
I don't think that's possible since Garrard was drafted in 2002...

Anyways, the trade for Green isn't bad considering the player the Rams picked and the fact that Green was a pretty decent QB.

That was one of the better Chief trades imo.

Green gaves us 5 productive seasons. And the guy the Rams picked was Damione Lewis I believe. If one were to compare, yeah Chiefs win that trade hands down.

pr_capone
04-19-2011, 12:13 AM
I don't think that's possible since Garrard was drafted in 2002...

Anyways, the trade for Green isn't bad considering the player the Rams picked and the fact that Green was a pretty decent QB.

Yeah... I wouldn't expect to hit on a lower round QB in the first shot. Take a shot in 01 and hope to hit a Rosenfels and another shot in 02 hoping for a Garrard.

Flutie could have started for 2 seasons.... 3 would have been a stretch.

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:13 AM
That was one of the better Chief trades imo.

Green gaves us 5 productive seasons. And the guy the Rams picked was Damione Lewis I believe. If one were to compare, yeah Chiefs win that trade hands down.

That is correct. You also have to take into consideration that the Rams FO at the time were a bunch of lunatics. It's inexcusable that the Rams had 3 first rounders that year and none of them were on the team past the 2005 season.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:14 AM
That was one of the better Chief trades imo.

Green gaves us 5 productive seasons. And the guy the Rams picked was Damione Lewis I believe. If one were to compare, yeah Chiefs win that trade hands down.

Especially when you factor in the trade made for Joe Montana that opened us up to the world outside of the midwest. He played, what, 2 seasons and is often referred to as one of Carl's better moves.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:14 AM
Stealing Tony Horne from you guys was better.

I completely forgot about that coked up dumbass.

Chocolate Hog
04-19-2011, 12:14 AM
Yeah... I wouldn't expect to hit on a lower round QB in the first shot. Take a shot in 01 and hope to hit a Rosenfels and another shot in 02 hoping for a Garrard.

Flutie could have started for 2 seasons.... 3 would have been a stretch.

Would Flutie fit Vermiels system?

Chocolate Hog
04-19-2011, 12:15 AM
I completely forgot about that coked up dumbass.

Is that why he got canned? For Coke? I remember he was good with the Rams and he played here for a few pre season games then literally disappeared and never talked about.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:15 AM
Would Flutie fit Vermiels system?

God no.

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:16 AM
I wonder if Vermeil didn't retire after the 1999 season, how many more years would he have coached the Rams?

GordonGekko
04-19-2011, 12:16 AM
this breakdown screams in your face why the Chiefs haven't sniffed a playoff victory in quite some time. Tyson Jackson, W T F

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:17 AM
Especially when you factor in the trade made for Joe Montana that opened us up to the world outside of the midwest. He played, what, 2 seasons and is often referred to as one of Carl's better moves.

Which is sad, because the 49ers took Dana Stubblefield with that pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:18 AM
I wonder if Vermeil didn't retire after the 1999 season, how many more years would he have coached the Rams?

I don't know. I think he wins the 2001 Super Bowl if he's coaching that game instead of Martz, but I don't know if he gets you there, because I don't know if he would have shitcanned Giunta for Lovie Smith.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:18 AM
I wonder if Vermeil didn't retire after the 1999 season, how many more years would he have coached the Rams?

If he'd have retained his coordinators I bet he would have won another one.

RedThat
04-19-2011, 12:20 AM
That is correct. You also have to take into consideration that the Rams FO at the time was a piece of shit. It's inexcusable that the Rams had 3 first rounders that year and none of them were on the team past the 2005 season.

It sure doesn't help when you have I bad front office I agree with your take there. Wow I didn't even know that the Rams all had "busts" for all of their first rounders that year.

But as far as the Green trade goes, if I was in the organizations situation at that time, I would of pulled that Green trade for a first rounder in a second. Escpecially knowing I had an MVP quarterback in Warner. But its their fault for not drafting well.

Phobia
04-19-2011, 12:20 AM
That makes no sense. As a new regime who are you going to start at QB? Trent Dilfer?

To this day, I've no idea why they gave St. Louis a 1st for Green when they had no other suitors for his services. I still think they could have had Green much cheaper.

I've never been a huge Green proponent but I came around. I think he brought more in terms of leadership and system capability than he did in pure QB intangibles. But I'm still pissed about the loss of that pick. Carl Peterson was way too cavalier with his 1st round picks trying to find that QB.

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:21 AM
I don't know. I think he wins the 2001 Super Bowl if he's coaching that game instead of Martz, but I don't know if he gets you there, because I don't know if he would have shitcanned Giunta for Lovie Smith.

:hmmm: I think it also depends on what would have happened in the 2001 draft. They still would have had two 1st round picks without the Green trade. If one of those picks don't turn into shit and are actually a Pro Bowl caliber player for 5-7 years, then I think Vermeil stays until after 2003. And the shitty Rams history may not have happened.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:22 AM
If he'd have retained his coordinators I bet he would have won another one.

No way, dude. That's what killed them in 2000. Giunta was every bit as bad as Martz was good in that scheme.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:23 AM
To this day, I've no idea why they gave St. Louis a 1st for Green when they had no other suitors for his services. I still think they could have had Green much cheaper.

I've never been a huge Green proponent but I came around. I think he brought more in terms of leadership and system capability than he did in pure QB intangibles. But I'm still pissed about the loss of that pick. Carl Peterson was way too cavalier with his 1st round picks trying to find that QB.

1) grbac fucked us
2) dick had a hardon for green
3) dick talked Carl out of his intended pick, bo jenkins, who is, by the way, the number 1 grocery bagger in Oklahoma as we speak

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:23 AM
I think arguably, the 2001 team was better than 1999 team. If Vermeil stays, I'm 95% sure that the Rams win the Super Bowl and don't end up having one of the worst 3 year stretches for a team in NFL history.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:24 AM
:hmmm: I think it also depends on what would have happened in the 2001 draft. They still would have had two 1st round picks without the Green trade. If one of those picks don't turn into shit and are actually a Pro Bowl caliber player for 5-7 years, then I think Vermeil stays until after 2003. And the shitty Rams history may not have happened.

Yeah, it would have. Vermeil was always about the immediate present. He would have left the cupboard just as bare as Martz did. Look at what he did in KC.

Where you guys really benefited was in taking away Vermeil's player personnel oversight, making him solely the coach. If he stays after 1999, he's getting more say in personnel decisions, just like he wanted and had in KC, and you are going to torpedo all the same.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:24 AM
No way, dude. That's what killed them in 2000. Giunta was every bit as bad as Martz was good in that scheme.

Yeah, I screwed up. I thought that Lovie was the DC when vermeil was there.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:25 AM
I think arguably, the 2001 team was better than 1999 team. If Vermeil stays, I'm 95% sure that the Rams win the Super Bowl and don't end up having one of the worst 3 year stretches for a team in NFL history.

The 2001 team was undoubtedly better, but it was largely better because of the Lovie Smith coordinated defense. If Vermeil is there in 2001, you're going to have Peter Giunta. The guy is loyal to a fault.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:26 AM
To this day, I've no idea why they gave St. Louis a 1st for Green when they had no other suitors for his services. I still think they could have had Green much cheaper.

I've never been a huge Green proponent but I came around. I think he brought more in terms of leadership and system capability than he did in pure QB intangibles. But I'm still pissed about the loss of that pick. Carl Peterson was way too cavalier with his 1st round picks trying to find that QB.

Why give the Jets a 4th for Herm when he may well get fired?

:facepalm:

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:26 AM
The 2001 team was undoubtedly better, but it was largely better because of the Lovie Smith coordinated defense. If Vermeil is there in 2001, you're going to have Peter Giunta. The guy is loyal to a fault.

Frontierre made Vermeil hire Martz in '99. I think if the defense was that bad with Giunta in 2000 with Vermeil, she could have done the same thing.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:26 AM
I think arguably, the 2001 team was better than 1999 team. If Vermeil stays, I'm 95% sure that the Rams win the Super Bowl and don't end up having one of the worst 3 year stretches for a team in NFL history.


You know where I think the Rams fucked up? They let Wistrom walk. He wasn't a big stat guy for a first round pick, but the guy made play after play when you needed them. Oh and I went to high school with him.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:28 AM
Frontierre made Vermeil hire Martz in '99. I think if the defense was that bad with Giunta in 2000 with Vermeil, she could have done the same thing.
I'm almost certain if robinson didn't walk when he did, cp was gonna fire him. He was losing the ticket sales/fan base.

Loved DV, problem was he was loyal to a fault. Ego perhaps?

RedThat
04-19-2011, 12:28 AM
The 2001 team was undoubtedly better, but it was largely better because of the Lovie Smith coordinated defense. If Vermeil is there in 2001, you're going to have Peter Giunta. The guy is loyal to a fault.

As much as loyalty is a good quality to have as a human being, its interesting to see how too much of it can backfire on you. Vermeil was too caught up in his good nature, that he couldn't escape it.

Urc Burry
04-19-2011, 12:29 AM
It doesn't have to be a good thread. It's a football thread.

2001 (traded to St. Louis for QB Trent Green) B probably wasn't worth a first rounder, but he was good for those 5 or so years
2002 DT Ryan Sims, North Carolina F
2003 RB Larry Johnson, Penn State B+ in hindsight Polamalu would of been better, but you have to admit LJ was productive
2004 (traded to Detroit for a 2nd and a 4th, which translated to DT Junior Siavii and WR Sammie Parker) F, although i liked Parker :harumph:
2005 LB Derrick Johnson, Texas B would of been lower had it not been for last season
2006 DE/OLB Tamba Hali, Penn State A he also got bumped up a lot this year
2007 WR Dwayne Bowe, LSU A outside of probably Jon Beason he was the BPA
2008 DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, LSU B+ he is no Suh, but he's finally starting to look good
2009 DE Tyson Jackson, LSU C Too early to tell but I haven't given up on him yet. That was a weak ass class, and Raji probably should of been the pick
2010 SS Eric Berry, Tennessee A+++++++++ KC's best 1st round draft pick in some time. Hopefully he will end up having a Polamalu type effect on our decent for 10 years

..

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:29 AM
You know where I think the Rams fucked up? They let Wistrom walk. He wasn't a big stat guy for a first round pick, but the guy made play after play when you needed them. Oh and I went to high school with him.

There's a ton of messed up shit the Rams had through 2000-2005. Wistrom leaving was one of them(somewhere, I read that the Rams were going to trade for him from Seattle but opted to retire instead). Pickett also leaving was kind of dumb and is arguably the best pick from the '01 draft for the Rams. But having Zygmunt running the Rams for that long ruined the team. If Devaney is hired earlier, I doubt the Rams are ever in as big of a mess as they were in 2007-2009.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 12:29 AM
Frontierre made Vermeil hire Martz in '99. I think if the defense was that bad with Giunta in 2000 with Vermeil, she could have done the same thing.

Doing that with a 1st year coach is different than with a guy who won your team its only Super Bowl.

Rams Fan
04-19-2011, 12:33 AM
I have a question about the Chiefs during Vermeil's reign with Peterson. Did the Chiefs sign a lot of UDFAs? Did any of them turn out to be decent?

Chocolate Hog
04-19-2011, 12:33 AM
To this day, I've no idea why they gave St. Louis a 1st for Green when they had no other suitors for his services. I still think they could have had Green much cheaper.

I've never been a huge Green proponent but I came around. I think he brought more in terms of leadership and system capability than he did in pure QB intangibles. But I'm still pissed about the loss of that pick. Carl Peterson was way too cavalier with his 1st round picks trying to find that QB.

Green was the best QB since Len Dawson. It fucking says a lot about this franchise.

Chocolate Hog
04-19-2011, 12:35 AM
I have a question about the Chiefs during Vermeil's reign with Peterson. Did the Chiefs sign a lot of UDFAs? Did any of them turn out to be decent?

Yes it was a team of rejects ( Holmes, Kennison, Green, Etc.) I would even say it's amazing how great this offense was with Al Saunders who hasn't done shit since leaving KC.

Urc Burry
04-19-2011, 12:38 AM
Yes it was a team of rejects ( Holmes, Kennison, Green, Etc.) I would even say it's amazing how great this offense was with Al Saunders who hasn't done shit since leaving KC.

Having one of the best O-Line's of all time certainly helped. We made Priest Holmes look like a hall of famer

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:45 AM
Having one of the best O-Line's of all time certainly helped. We made Priest Holmes look like a hall of famer

Good line yes, however, don't be hating on Priest.

Urc Burry
04-19-2011, 12:50 AM
Good line yes, however, don't be hating on Priest.

I love Priest, but the only thing he really was good at was reading blocks :shrug:

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:51 AM
I love Priest, but the only thing he really was good at was reading blocks :shrug:

That's so easy a caveman can do it, Larry Johnson couldn't, but a caveman, yes

Urc Burry
04-19-2011, 12:55 AM
That's so easy a caveman can do it, Larry Johnson couldn't, but a caveman, yes

Yet he had back-to-back 1,700 yard seasons

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 12:58 AM
Yet he had back-to-back 1,700 yard seasons

completely different running styles. Once larry lost the ability to run people over, he was done. Had he been able to read blocks and shut his mouth, he'd probably still be in KC

KurtCobain
04-19-2011, 01:08 AM
completely different running styles. Once larry lost the ability to run people over, he was done. Had he been able to read blocks and shut his mouth, he'd probably still be in KC

Yeah he could've ran for 2 yds a carry instead of Jones last year!

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2011, 01:53 AM
I have a question about the Chiefs during Vermeil's reign with Peterson. Did the Chiefs sign a lot of UDFAs? Did any of them turn out to be decent?

Brian Waters came in during 2000, but he first got his shot under Vermeil. He was originally a fullback in Cowboys camp before he came here.

Holmes doesn't really count because he was a free agent signing from the Ravens, although he was an UDFA there.

Really there weren't many UDFAs who made an impact here. There was a guy named Richard Smith who made a lot of buzz in the 2004 preseason, promptly shit his pants in his first game, and was never heard from again.

The best one was probably Benny Sapp, with Marc Boerigter after that.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 01:57 AM
Brian Waters came in during 2000, but he first got his shot under Vermeil. He was originally a fullback in Cowboys camp before he came here.

Holmes doesn't really count because he was a free agent signing from the Ravens, although he was an UDFA there.

Really there weren't many UDFAs who made an impact here. There was a guy named Richard Smith who made a lot of buzz in the 2004 preseason, promptly shit his pants in his first game, and was never heard from again.

The best one was probably Benny Sapp, with Marc Boerigter after that.


We sure as shit didn't get no bartender. Had we have, maybe eric warfield would have turned out better.

crazycoffey
04-19-2011, 02:03 AM
Marc Boerigter, I was a fan. I think I was at the game were he caught the 99 yard TD. damn it, who was that against?

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 02:05 AM
Marc Boerigter, I was a fan. I think I was at the game were he caught the 99 yard TD. damn it, who was that against?

Chargers.

Getchie some google.

crazycoffey
04-19-2011, 02:10 AM
Chargers.

Getchie some google.

do you clean your eas with a q-tip or a cotton swab?

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 02:11 AM
do you clean your eas with a q-tip or a cotton swab?



jackrabbits

milkman
04-19-2011, 10:29 AM
That was one of the better Chief trades imo.

Green gaves us 5 productive seasons. And the guy the Rams picked was Damione Lewis I believe. If one were to compare, yeah Chiefs win that trade hands down.

Especially when you factor in the trade made for Joe Montana that opened us up to the world outside of the midwest. He played, what, 2 seasons and is often referred to as one of Carl's better moves.

Trent Geen and Joe Montana were the best QBs this team has had since Lenny Dawson.

I really liked and respected Trent Green, nad there's nothing you can say negative about Joe Montana, who is still the greatest QB to ever play the game, IMO.

That being said, I absolutely hate those trades.

We keep banging our heads against the wall with other team's castoffs and guys on their last legs at the most important position in all of team sports.

Teams win championships with guys that they groom at the position, not other's hand me downs and throw aways.

I want a team that can compete for and win multiple championships, and those guys aren't going to give you that.

J Diddy
04-19-2011, 10:33 AM
Trent Geen and Joe Montana were the best QBs this team has had since Lenny Dawson.

I really liked and respected Trent Green, nad there's nothing you can say negative about Joe Montana, who is still the greatest QB to ever play the game, IMO.

That being said, I absolutely hate those trades.

We keep banging our heads against the wall with other team's castoffs and guys on their last legs at the most important position in all of team sports.

Teams win championships with guys that they groom at the position, not other's hand me downs and throw aways.

I want a team that can compete for and win multiple championships, and those guys aren't going to give you that.

I almost agree with this 100%. For a first rounder of any nature 5 years of playing time to me is required. Green, fit that bill, although barely, Montana did not. Had we made it past buffalo then I think we'd all be singing a different tune.

milkman
04-19-2011, 10:45 AM
I almost agree with this 100%. For a first rounder of any nature 5 years of playing time to me is required. Green, fit that bill, although barely, Montana did not. Had we made it past buffalo then I think we'd all be singing a different tune.

I think what Montana did with the weapons (or lack thereof) that he had to work with was nothing short of near miraculous.

However, he was an aging, injury prone QB when the Chiefs traded for him, and any expectation that he could make it through a season and to the SB uninjured was unrealistic.

That Chiefs team in '93 was a young ascending team, with players just coming into their prime.

That was a team, with the right QB, that would have competed for years.

Bump
04-19-2011, 10:48 AM
You'd really want the Chiefs to draft Stroud instead of trading for Green?

ya, he was one of the best QB's that we've ever had. I wouldn't change that. the rest of the Vermeil drafts, however.......

milkman
04-19-2011, 11:11 AM
I've always felt that the Chiefs would have been better off, both short term and long term, had they signed Steve Beuerlein in '93, as well as trading for Joe Montana.

But, as I look back on it more closely, I think the better plan would have been to keep DeBerg for another year in '92, and sign Beuerlein in free agency when he signed to back up Troy Aikman in Dallas.

He'd had a couple of productive seasons with the Raiders, but fell into Al Davis' doghouse.

Let him sit behind DeBerg and learn from the crafty vet.

He could have been the starter, and given us an open window of opportunity for 10-12 years, and would have been a great fit.