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View Full Version : Chiefs With the #21 pick, I think Gabe Carimi makes good sense


RedThat
04-20-2011, 12:29 PM
I think he would address one of the tackle positions. A lot of scouts claim he is not the solution at left tackle but I think he would give the Chiefs something on the OL.

The guy plays with a mean streak, has the nastiness, and toughness that a lot of our OLmen lack. But Im not necessarily judging him based on these characteristics alone, I think he has great usage of the hands, has tremendous size, and power. The guy is a mauler and a great run blocker.

His blocking technique can improve with time imo. It did so when he was at Wisconsin. The major knock on him is his footwork and athletic ability. Thats what a lot of the scouting reports say. And I suppose that is why he won't be a left tackle or at least start there right away. But he could possibly be a good developmental player with a lot of upside. Maybe he could possibly give the Chiefs something now and potentially more in the future?

I know many are opposed to drafting a RT. But Richardson was awful in the latter half last year, and was a huge liability and contributed to the teams struggles down the stretch.

Carimi 10 x's > Richardson imo.

Pestilence
04-20-2011, 12:33 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=29

Fish
04-20-2011, 12:33 PM
Draft a RT with our 1st round pick that's known for bad footwork and athletic ability.

Yeah... let's get right on that...........

RedThat
04-20-2011, 12:36 PM
Draft a RT with our 1st round pick that's known for bad footwork and athletic ability.

Yeah... let's get right on that...........

Well thats what is going to make him a mid to late round pick.

He doesn't have to have those qualities to become an effective tackle. But that doesn't mean he can't be a solid tackle in the NFL. Right tackle is a position that the Chiefs have sucked at for years.

InChiefsHell
04-20-2011, 12:39 PM
Draft a guy at #21 overall who is a developmental futuristic prospect...um...no.

...that's what 3rd rounders are for...

RedThat
04-20-2011, 12:44 PM
Draft a guy at #21 overall who is a developmental futuristic prospect...um...no.

...that's what 3rd rounders are for...

We don't have to do it. But sometimes those type of picks work out. Take Tamba Hali as an example. The Chiefs picked pretty late in the 1st, and he was considered to be a bit of a developmental player at the time. Look at him now?

*Carimi may be the best pick at the time at 21? Unless, Julio Jones, Pouncey or Tyron smith can fall to us? Who else can picked at that #, that addresses both positional value and BPA at the same time.

noa
04-20-2011, 12:46 PM
I think we should convince Andrew Luck to declare for the draft after the 20th pick
Posted via Mobile Device

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 12:46 PM
I really don't like the idea of spending a 1st rounder on a right tackle, even a late 1st.

RedThat
04-20-2011, 12:47 PM
I think we should convince Andrew Luck to declare for the draft after the 20th pick
Posted via Mobile Device

That is wishful thinking. Cassel is going to be our QB whether we like it or not.

RedThat
04-20-2011, 12:48 PM
I really don't like the idea of spending a 1st rounder on a right tackle, even a late 1st.

Its definately not a popular pick. No doubt about it.

KCrockaholic
04-20-2011, 12:50 PM
I wouldn't mind taking Carimi. I like him, along with Castonzo, and Smith. But if a good OLB or potentially elite prospect like Aldon Smith fall to us we have to take them.

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 12:55 PM
Its definately not a popular pick. No doubt about it.It's probably more popular than you think.

It all depends on how the draft pans out, but I'd hope we can find a better value than that.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-20-2011, 12:58 PM
:facepalm:

RedThat
04-20-2011, 01:11 PM
It's probably more popular than you think.

It all depends on how the draft pans out, but I'd hope we can find a better value than that.

Well, in terms of value, if we were to focus on team needs and BPA, what would really be available at #21?

Lets dissect this thingy up. Chiefs need a NT, WR, another LBer or two, but I think most importantly, and mind you this is my opinion, they need the most help on the OL.

Im gonna start off at WR. WR: two best prospects are Julio Jones and A.J. Green. Those two would be a nice compliment to Bowe but they'll be gone by the time we pick at 21. Unless the Chiefs decide to go with Baldwin or Hankerson as alternatives. Hankerson would probably be a bit of a reach at #21.But for WR, we are very limited in our options there.

For NT. We are looking at Phil Taylor who Im not to crazy about. And many others feel the exactly same way. Plus there have been a lot of knocks on him. I think his stock value is decreasing. So at NT, we are limited.

At LBer, there is a chance Aldon Smith could fall to us? And he would be a really good option. Then there is also Akeem Ayers who would also be a really good option.

Like you said, it all depends on how it pans out. I agree with you. But, if we are limited in certain areas like WR, NT, or Lber, then I think they should turn their attention to the OL. Carimi, Pouncey, Sherrod, Costanzo, Tyron Smith(doubt he falls to us though) would all be good options. Im concerned about the OL. I think it overachieved last year, and down the stretch it proved to be a liability. I think it'll be a weakness this year. And I hope not because a QB like Cassel needs a good OL.

HotRoute
04-20-2011, 01:13 PM
Picks from the 20 to 30 range pretty much pick themselves, someone will get passed on and will fall into the chiefs lap (hopefully Pouncy IMO)

Then a high to mid first round type of fplayer will be scorned by being skipped and hopefully play his tail off to prove to those teams they missed out on someone special.

Direckshun
04-20-2011, 01:13 PM
Anybody arguing that Gabe Carimi is a developmental prospect is stupid.

HotRoute
04-20-2011, 01:17 PM
Anybody arguing that Gabe Carimi is a developmental prospect is stupid.

I have only heard that he will go late in the first to mid second round, and is one of the top o-line prospects in the draft. As far as a day one starter, I'm not too sure about that.

Coogs
04-20-2011, 01:22 PM
Well, in terms of value, if we were to focus on team needs and BPA, what would really be available at #21?

Lets dissect this thingy up. Chiefs need a NT, WR, another LBer or two, but I think most importantly, and mind you this is my opinion, they need the most help on the OL.

Im gonna start off at WR. WR: two best prospects are Julio Jones and A.J. Green. Those two would be a nice compliment to Bowe but they'll be gone by the time we pick at 21. Unless the Chiefs decide to go with Baldwin or Hankerson as alternatives. Hankerson would probably be a bit of a reach at #21.But for WR, we are very limited in our options there.

For NT. We are looking at Phil Taylor who Im not to crazy about. And many others feel the exactly same way. Plus there have been a lot of knocks on him. I think his stock value is decreasing. So at NT, we are limited.

At LBer, there is a chance Aldon Smith could fall to us? And he would be a really good option. Then there is also Akeem Ayers who would also be a really good option.

Like you said, it all depends on how it pans out. I agree with you. But, if we are limited in certain areas like WR, NT, or Lber, then I think they should turn their attention to the OL. Carimi, Pouncey, Sherrod, Costanzo, Tyron Smith(doubt he falls to us though) would all be good options. Im concerned about the OL. I think it overachieved last year, and down the stretch it proved to be a liability. I think it'll be a weakness this year. And I hope not because a QB like Cassel needs a good OL.

I'm pretty much right on board with this whole post.

Direckshun
04-20-2011, 01:28 PM
I have only heard that he will go late in the first to mid second round, and is one of the top o-line prospects in the draft. As far as a day one starter, I'm not too sure about that.

Ummmmmmm, he's about the surest thing in the Draft. He'll go mid teens to mid 20s, and he'll start day one at RT.

He faced up and dominated a ton of first-round picks this year: (Cameron Heyward and Adrian Clayborn for starters) and went up against JJ Watt in practice.

Outside of Patrick Peterson or Cam Jordan, he's the surest thing in the draft.

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 01:29 PM
Im concerned about the OL. I think it overachieved last year, and down the stretch it proved to be a liability. I think it'll be a weakness this year. And I hope not because a QB like Cassel needs a good OL.I think you're focusing on the wrong position. I think the OL play fell off primarily because they were centered by an undersized player in his late 30s. Wiegmann wore down, and the performance of the group reflected it. That position I would consider if there was someone available. There won't be (Pouncey is not even in the same universe as his brother), so it will have to wait. But a new, better starting center, even a rookie, could I think elevate the play of the entire line. And after that I'd either find Waters' replacement, or find a way to get Asamoah into the lineup.

Right tackle I'd take if somebody fell into my lap in the mid- or late rounds.

There will be options at 21, ultimately, and I wouldn't just limit it to positions that you perceive as immediate needs.

RedThat
04-20-2011, 01:31 PM
Anybody arguing that Gabe Carimi is a developmental prospect is stupid.

Not necessarily. It all depends on what one is basing their argument on?

If one were to claim he is a developmental prospect for the LT position then that could be considered a valid statement. But if one were to say he is a developmental prospect at RT, then that would be an invalid statement.

RedThat
04-20-2011, 01:32 PM
I have only heard that he will go late in the first to mid second round, and is one of the top o-line prospects in the draft. As far as a day one starter, I'm not too sure about that.

I think he could start at RT from day one.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-20-2011, 01:32 PM
Ummmmmmm, he's about the surest thing in the Draft. He'll go mid teens to mid 20s, and he'll start day one at RT.

He faced up and dominated a ton of first-round picks this year: (Cameron Heyward and Adrian Clayborn for starters) and went up against JJ Watt in practice.

Outside of Patrick Peterson or Cam Jordan, he's the surest thing in the draft.

There is no such thing.

Direckshun
04-20-2011, 01:36 PM
There is no such thing.

What's the need for having a big board, then?

Why don't we just draft according to a dart board?

And with the 21st pick in the draft, the Chiefs select....

*dart hits board*

...OG Steve Schilling of Michigan!

Direckshun
04-20-2011, 01:37 PM
Not necessarily. It all depends on what one is basing their argument on?

If one were to claim he is a developmental prospect for the LT position then that could be considered a valid statement.

That's fair.

And I'm not even sure Carimi projects to LT. He's an All Pro RT, however.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-20-2011, 01:39 PM
What's the need for having a big board, then?

Why don't we just draft according to a dart board?

And with the 21st pick in the draft, the Chiefs select....

*dart hits board*

...OG Steve Schilling of Michigan!

Plenty of "sure things" have gone bust.

For the most part it is pretty pointless. The guys calling the shots have a different view on the players than us "draftnicks" watching youtube film in the basement.

Direckshun
04-20-2011, 01:42 PM
Plenty of "sure things" have gone bust.

Then answer my question.

What's the point of having a big board?

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 01:43 PM
What's the need for having a big board, then?

Why don't we just draft according to a dart board?

And with the 21st pick in the draft, the Chiefs select....

*dart hits board*

...OG Steve Schilling of Michigan!That pick would annoy me less than Carimi.

But that's only because I'm a Michigan homer.

Direckshun
04-20-2011, 01:45 PM
That pick would annoy me less than Carimi.

But that's only because I'm a Michigan homer.

Let's just call him a midrounder.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-20-2011, 01:45 PM
Then answer my question.

What's the point of having a big board?

I'm annoyed by the term. That is all. It's a tired cliche.

HotRoute
04-20-2011, 02:05 PM
Is his nickname really "The Jewish Hammer"?

RedThat
04-20-2011, 02:19 PM
I think you're focusing on the wrong position. I think the OL play fell off primarily because they were centered by an undersized player in his late 30s. Wiegmann wore down, and the performance of the group reflected it. That position I would consider if there was someone available. There won't be (Pouncey is not even in the same universe as his brother), so it will have to wait. But a new, better starting center, even a rookie, could I think elevate the play of the entire line. And after that I'd either find Waters' replacement, or find a way to get Asamoah into the lineup.

Right tackle I'd take if somebody fell into my lap in the mid- or late rounds.

There will be options at 21, ultimately, and I wouldn't just limit it to positions that you perceive as immediate needs.

Well, Im stressing one position on the OL that I feel could use improvement. If you want to talk about other positions on the OL, then that opens up a whole new can of worms. The center position is a liability I agree with you there on Wiegmann. And it's not that he even did a bad job last year, but I think I see where you are coming from, he is just a one dimensional player and not a multi dimensional player by any means. In order to get the most out of him, he is player that has to be scheme specific to perform well. And that is what the Chiefs did with him last year. They made the most of him. but we can also add to the fact that he is old. Maybe Kris O'Dowd will be available when we pick in the 2nd round?

However, I think we are more than just a center from improving the OL my friend. Im not so sure if I agree with you on taking a RT in the mid to late rounds primarily because we have tried that in the past and failed miserably. And we also ended up with bad quality players. At this point in time, I think its important to realize that we need to focus on getting good quality players especially at the tackle position. I wouldn't mind if they focused on trying to find a right tackle in rounds 1,2 or even 3.

*I think Waters should be replaced with either Asamoah or Albert. As much as people would disagree with me, whether they like it or not, Albert has underachieved and I don't think he will amount to a probowl left tackle that many were expecting. Slide him over to guard and I think he could be a gamer at that position. Besides, it is his natural position after all. the whole line needs to be re-shuffled and re-constructed. Imo, they have a few bright spots in Albert, and Asamoah. But yeah the center position we could agree on needs work. And our tackles are very very questionable. If we were to leave the line the way it is, Im not confident going into next season. But the rebuilding should definately start at the center and tackles positions.

KCinNY
04-20-2011, 02:34 PM
I really don't like the idea of spending a 1st rounder on a right tackle, even a late 1st.

This x 100.

Decent RTs can be found in later rounds.

Chiefnj2
04-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Richardson's biggest area of weakness is in pass protection. That is also Carimi's weakness.

HotRoute
04-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Our o-line seems to be one of our strong points, I would much rather see the chiefs take a d-lineman. there seems to be an abundance of d-line talent in this years draft

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 02:46 PM
Well, Im stressing one position on the OL that I feel could use improvement. If you want to talk about other positions on the OL, then that opens up a whole new can of worms. The center position is a liability I agree with you there on Wiegmann. And it's not that he even did a bad job last year, but I think I see where you are coming from, he is just a one dimensional player and not a multi dimensional player by any means. In order to get the most out of him, he is player that has to be scheme specific to perform well. And that is what the Chiefs did with him last year. They made the most of him. but we can also add to the fact that he is old. Maybe Kris O'Dowd will be available when we pick in the 2nd round?Wiegmann's problem isn't so much that he's one-dimensional, it's that he starts the season at 280 and ends it at 260. That was one thing when he was 30, it's another when he's 37. He's always been good in space, but he's never been able to stand up against defensive tackles with any size. He just gets worn down. It was less of an issue when he had Waters on one side, Shields on the other, and Roaf playing on the edge. You could give him help when he needed...

I think Wiegmann hurts the entire line at this point. He was fine early in the year, good even, but by the time November hit, you could see what was happening.However, I think we are more than just a center from improving the OL my friend. Im not so sure if I agree with you on taking a RT in the mid to late rounds primarily because we have tried that in the past and failed miserably. And we also ended up with bad quality players. At this point in time, I think its important to realize that we need to focus on getting good quality players especially at the tackle position. I wouldn't mind if they focused on trying to find a right tackle in rounds 1,2 or even 3. I never said we were "just a center from improving the OL".

What I'm saying is that I believe a center could have the greatest impact on improving the OL. But there are other issues. Waters is a shadow of his former self, and while one could argue that Lilja was the best lineman in 2010, he's not anywhere close to what Shields was. No disrespect to the guy, he's a passable starting lineman, but his position is only viewed as a strength because of who's lining up on either side of him.

My first two steps with the line would be to replace Waters and to replace Wiegmann. I have a feeling once that is done, suddenly Albert looks like the ascending player he appeared to be in 2008. *At LT.*

After that, I'd look at right tackle. I'll be honest, for me, right tackle is the afterthought position. Out of all the needs we have, whether it's on offense or defense, it's probably the lowest on the totem pole. I think getting all hyped up for Carimi or somebody because they could be a stud is a luxury pick. You don't need an all pro at right tackle to have a great offense. Do we need better play that we've had? Obviously. I just don't think you have to spend a premium pick to get that.

I'm not thinking about LT at all. I'm fine with Albert.

RedThat
04-20-2011, 02:49 PM
Our o-line seems to be one of our strong points, I would much rather see the chiefs take a d-lineman. there seems to be an abundance of d-line talent in this years draft

I disagree because I don't think we have one really good player along the Oline. Waters, Albert are average quality players. Richardson is terrible. And Lilja is solid.

If Ryan Lilja is your best player on the OL, than that speaks high volumes about the status of your Oline.

Steron
04-20-2011, 02:49 PM
Right now I am hoping against hope for Ayers or Pouncey. I believe it will be Carimi or Taylor though.

RedThat
04-20-2011, 02:50 PM
This x 100.

Decent RTs can be found in later rounds.

Well, if that was the case then how come that hasn't pan out for the Chiefs over the years?

HotRoute
04-20-2011, 02:53 PM
Remember when niswanger was our center. . . .


ROFL

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 02:54 PM
Remember when niswanger was our center. . . .


ROFLI'm trying not to.

HotRoute
04-20-2011, 02:55 PM
I disagree because I don't think we have one really good player along the Oline. Waters, Albert are average quality players. Richardson is terrible. And Lilja is solid.

If Ryan Lilja is your best player on the OL, than that speaks high volumes about the status of your Oline.

You seem to forget the chiefs led the league in rushing, I dont care how good your RB's are the o-line has a lot to do with winning that title

the Talking Can
04-20-2011, 02:57 PM
i've reconciled myself to the fact we may take a RT, promised myself I wouldn't lose my shit (but probably will just for fun anyways)...


all reports are that Carimi will be good player

but I agree with everything keg said...we need a C....and NT, and #2 WR way worse...the value seems spotty at 21 though...BPA will likely be a DL....then what?

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 02:57 PM
You seem to forget the chiefs led the league in rushing, I dont care how good your RB's are the o-line has a lot to do with winning that titleThey have to improve in pass protection. They were like matadors last season, particularly up the middle. It's nigh on a miracle that Cassel had the (90% of a) season he had.

ChiefsCountry
04-20-2011, 02:58 PM
I like Carmi but would rather pick up James Carpenter from Alabama in the 3rd or 4th.

Chiefnj2
04-20-2011, 03:04 PM
i've reconciled myself to the fact we may take a RT, promised myself I wouldn't lose my shit (but probably will just for fun anyways)...


all reports are that Carimi will be good player

but I agree with everything keg said...we need a C....and NT,

Sadly, it's a really bad draft for those two positions.

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 03:05 PM
Yes it is, unfortunately.

KCinNY
04-20-2011, 03:11 PM
Well, if that was the case then how come that hasn't pan out for the Chiefs over the years?

You're right. It hasn't worked out for the Chiefs, but it's what several perennial playoff teams have done.

Patriots: Sebastian Vollmer-late 2nd (58th overall)
Colts: Ryan Diem-late 4th (119th overall)
Steelers: Flozell Adams-off the scrap heap after Dallas cut him.
Saints: John Stinchcomb-early 2nd (37th overall)
Ravens: Marshal Yanda-late 3rd (87th overall)

In fact, there are very few 1st round RTs. Usually they are projected to eventually move to the left side(Oher and Bulaga come to mind).

Johnny Vegas
04-20-2011, 03:13 PM
given the severity of our schedule we need to either A) draft a position like WR to help outscore some of the high scoring offenses we'll face or B)draft a pass rusher to disrupt the QB's we're facing such as Payton Manning, Tom Brady, and Ben Roethlisberger.

RedThat
04-20-2011, 03:20 PM
Wiegmann's problem isn't so much that he's one-dimensional, it's that he starts the season at 280 and ends it at 260. That was one thing when he was 30, it's another when he's 37. He's always been good in space, but he's never been able to stand up against defensive tackles with any size. He just gets worn down. It was less of an issue when he had Waters on one side, Shields on the other, and Roaf playing on the edge. You could give him help when he needed...

I think Wiegmann hurts the entire line at this point. He was fine early in the year, good even, but by the time November hit, you could see what was happening.I never said we were "just a center from improving the OL".

So the way Im reading this, is, you're saying Wiegmann is good to have in space. The way i interpret that is that he has good athletic ability and lateral mobility to block at the point of attacks. But yet he is a liability and fails to match up strength for strength or power for power against well-sized defensive tackles. So then that has to make him one dimensional because he doesn't possess all the intangibles necessary to make him a complete center.

I know you never said that "we were just a center from improving the OL." Im just adding to your statement in that I feel we are more than just a center from improving the OL.

What I'm saying is that I believe a center could have the greatest impact on improving the OL.

I agree. But I also believe that tackles are equally just as important. I know the Chiefs didn't give up many sacks last year, but I think those stats are smoke and mirrors. I think they showed down the stretch that they struggled in pass protection.

But there are other issues. Waters is a shadow of his former self, and while one could argue that Lilja was the best lineman in 2010, he's not anywhere close to what Shields was. No disrespect to the guy, he's a passable starting lineman, but his position is only viewed as a strength because of who's lining up on either side of him.

I agree with all of this.


My first two steps with the line would be to replace Waters and to replace Wiegmann.

Thats a good start.

I have a feeling once that is done, suddenly Albert looks like the ascending player he appeared to be in 2008. *At LT.*

Fair enough. That is your opinion. Im not exactly sure about that though.


After that, I'd look at right tackle. I'll be honest, for me, right tackle is the afterthought position. Out of all the needs we have, whether it's on offense or defense, it's probably the lowest on the totem pole. I think getting all hyped up for Carimi or somebody because they could be a stud is a luxury pick. You don't need an all pro at right tackle to have a great offense. Do we need better play that we've had? Obviously. I just don't think you have to spend a premium pick to get that.

I'm not thinking about LT at all. I'm fine with Albert.

Well, considering who is behind center, this is just me, I would value any position on the Oline and not consider the RT position an afterthought. If we can get great value on any position in the first round on the OL, Id consider that a BIG plus. Only because I think Cassel is gonna need all the help he could get and I don't want lack of quality OL play to hinder his progress or development.

HotRoute
04-20-2011, 03:21 PM
given the severity of our schedule we need to either A) draft a position like WR to help outscore some of the high scoring offenses we'll face or B)draft a pass rusher to disrupt the QB's we're facing such as Payton Manning, Tom Brady, and Ben Roethlisberger.

Very well said

CrazyPhuD
04-20-2011, 03:22 PM
Wait isn't Carimi related to Trezelle Jenkins?

Direckshun
04-20-2011, 03:23 PM
I'm annoyed by the term. That is all. It's a tired cliche.

Why have a big board, PGM?

Chiefnj2
04-20-2011, 03:23 PM
given the severity of our schedule we need to either A) draft a position like WR to help outscore some of the high scoring offenses we'll face or B)draft a pass rusher to disrupt the QB's we're facing such as Payton Manning, Tom Brady, and Ben Roethlisberger.

KC has a good pass rusher. In addition to adding a pass rusher to the other side, the problem appears to be that the front 3 aren't occupying multiple blockers.

Direckshun
04-20-2011, 03:24 PM
Richardson's biggest area of weakness is in pass protection. That is also Carimi's weakness.

Tell that to Cameron Hayward, Adrian Clayborn, and JJ Watt.

All 1st rounders, by the by.

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 03:24 PM
You're right. It hasn't worked out for the Chiefs, but it's what several perennial playoff teams have done.

Patriots: Sebastian Vollmer-late 2nd (58th overall)
Colts: Ryan Diem-late 4th (119th overall)
Steelers: Flozell Adams-off the scrap heap after Dallas cut him.
Saints: John Stinchcomb-early 2nd (37th overall)
Ravens: Marshal Yanda-late 3rd (87th overall)

In fact, there are very few 1st round RTs. Usually they are projected to eventually move to the left side(Oher and Bulaga come to mind).It hasn't worked for the Chiefs primarily because they've been doing it with 5th and 6th round picks. Since Riley and Tait, I think the highest Chiefs tackle pick was Brett Williams in the mid 4th. The rest (IIRC...) have been rounds 5-7.

Just speaking for myself, when I say I wouldn't take one in the first, I'm not saying wait until the sixth. I'm saying if you do it, do it in the 2nd/3rd/4th.

okiedokieokoye
04-20-2011, 03:28 PM
How come not many people are discussing the possibility of taking Derek Sherrod at #21? He is a pure left tackle that actually translates to an NFL left tackle. Let he and Albert battle it out and the loser is a stud guard or RT. Sort of a win win win. He's a former team captain, 4 year starter and he's very intelligent. Sounds very Pioli- like to me.

Chiefnj2
04-20-2011, 03:31 PM
Tell that to Cameron Hayward, Adrian Clayborn, and JJ Watt.

All 1st rounders, by the by.

Clayborn abused him in pass rushing in 2009 and so did the kid from Fresno. Do you have clips of Clayborn in 2010?

RedThat
04-20-2011, 03:36 PM
You seem to forget the chiefs led the league in rushing, I dont care how good your RB's are the o-line has a lot to do with winning that title

There are a few factors to consider here.

A lot of the big runs we had came from the left side of the Oline. Which is the strength of the Oline. Waters and Albert are good runblockers. A lot of Charles runs came from the outside. We have the lineman athletic enough, that possess the lateral mobility to run side to side.

Albert can do that, and so can Waters and Wiegmann. Waters has always been a good runblocker as well. A lot of the playcalling Weis made last year was suited and designed according to the teams strengths imo.

Plus, Charles makes up for an average Oline. His running style, speed, quickness, and agility make him elusive and hard to tackle as it is.

SNR
04-20-2011, 03:37 PM
We don't have to do it. But sometimes those type of picks work out. Take Tamba Hali as an example. The Chiefs picked pretty late in the 1st, and he was considered to be a bit of a developmental player at the time.No he wasn't

RedThat
04-20-2011, 03:40 PM
No he wasn't

Why not?

He originally started out as a 4-3 DE, and was later converted to 3-4 linebacker. Thats a major transition right there. And it went smoothly.

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 03:55 PM
Why not?

He originally started out as a 4-3 DE, and was later converted to 3-4 linebacker. Thats a major transition right there. And it went smoothly.That doesn't mean he was a project. Unless you think herm drafted him with the express intention of losing his head coaching job years later and then watching another front office convert him to a linebacker.

In actuality, he was actually the opposite of a project. He was one of those "high floor/low ceiling guys" that some draftnicks thought had reached the limits of his athletic ability in college.

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-20-2011, 03:58 PM
Why not?

He originally started out as a 4-3 DE, and was later converted to 3-4 linebacker. Thats a major transition right there. And it went smoothly.

I remember quite a few here labeling him a "finished product" and "maxed out". I never agreed with that garbage.

He was by no means a developemental project whatsoever.


This turned out to be a very good scouting report on him.


A very intense, competitive DE, that will never give up on a play. Has an explosive initial and closing burst, but average in between. Uses spins and his powerful upper body to get away from blockers. Is on the smaller side, but has the bulk and strength to hold his own on running plays. A good tackler. Mostly was used as a LDE, but can drop back into coverage. In 12 games this season, had 65 tackles and 11 sacks.

SNR
04-20-2011, 03:58 PM
Why not?

He originally started out as a 4-3 DE, and was later converted to 3-4 linebacker. Thats a major transition right there. And it went smoothly.The Chiefs drafted him to complement Jared Allen on the other side of the line. He had a motor, a work ethic, and a few tricks up his sleeve, but not much in terms of athletic talent. Most draft experts considered him a player with a low ceiling-- he'd start early and play well in the league, but would never be an amazing all-pro. To think of him as a raw, developing player is the exact OPPOSITE of what Tamba Hali actually was deemed to be

KurtCobain
04-20-2011, 04:12 PM
I would be very welcome to Carimi at 21.

Urc Burry
04-20-2011, 05:42 PM
Let's replace our RT who isn't good at pass blocking but is a pretty good run blocker, with a RT taken in the first round who isn't good at pass blocking but is a pretty good run blocker.

So no i'm not for it

DeezNutz
04-20-2011, 05:46 PM
Pioli will have to work hard to **** up our first round pick, so I'm going to try not to get caught up in who it may or may not be.

keg in kc
04-20-2011, 06:21 PM
Pioli will have to work hard to **** up our first round pick, so I'm going to try not to get caught up in who it may or may not be.Dude. If we draft a kicker I'ma hunt you down.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-20-2011, 06:26 PM
It's not a horrible pick, but it is a True Fan pick.

DeezNutz
04-20-2011, 06:27 PM
Dude. If we draft a kicker I'ma hunt you down.

Not even Scott can work THAT hard. LMAO.

aturnis
04-20-2011, 09:43 PM
I do agree though that Oline makes sense. Pioli and crew look at things logically. So, to win the Superbowl, gotta make the playoffs, to make the playoffs gotta win your division(I know, not always). So they know they need to focus on beating Denver, San Diego, and Oakland. Oakland tore our Oline up in both games, while both Denver and San Diego made the line look foolish in one of the two games we played them.

In order to improve our chances of winning against our division, we need to protect the QB and open running lanes. That would give us our biggest leg up on the competition within the division.

Maybe not my first choice, but really, haven't been too thrilled about our prospects this year at any position. Almost feels like the 2009 draft when we settled for TJax.

RedThat
04-20-2011, 11:00 PM
It's not a horrible pick, but it is a True Fan pick.

Nine and ****n Seven baby!

Sincerely yours,

the true fan

salame
04-21-2011, 12:16 AM
Oaklands D-line really did butt-fuck our O-line twice

bowener
04-21-2011, 12:26 AM
I do agree though that Oline makes sense. Pioli and crew look at things logically. So, to win the Superbowl, gotta make the playoffs, to make the playoffs gotta win your division(I know, not always). So they know they need to focus on beating Denver, San Diego, and Oakland. Oakland tore our Oline up in both games, while both Denver and San Diego made the line look foolish in one of the two games we played them.

In order to improve our chances of winning against our division, we need to protect the QB and open running lanes. That would give us our biggest leg up on the competition within the division.

Maybe not my first choice, but really, haven't been too thrilled about our prospects this year at any position. Almost feels like the 2009 draft when we settled for TJax.

Didn't the Raiders maul the Chiefs interior lineman though? Pretty sure I remember Seymour raping CW with his throbbing manhood.

LiL stumppy
04-21-2011, 12:43 AM
I wouldn't mind taking Carimi. I like him, along with Castonzo, and Smith. But if a good OLB or potentially elite prospect like Aldon Smith fall to us we have to take them.

Where do you get Smith being elite?

If he were elite he would be taken somewhere in the top 5. He wont be taken in the top 15.

acesn8s
04-21-2011, 06:36 AM
What's wrong with Phil Taylor, NT, Baylor?

Steron
04-21-2011, 06:52 AM
Taylor, reportedly, has bones growing together in his feet. Said to be worrisome for a player of his weight.

http://www.sbnation.com/2011-nfl-draft/2011/4/18/2117802/phil-taylor-foot-injury-2011-nfl-draft

One of those possible misinformation stories involves Baylor DT Phil Taylor. With 10 days to go until the NFL draft, a report has surfaced that Taylor, who could go as high as No. 21 to the Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/kansas-city-chiefs), has a foot injury that could cause problems. According to the report, Taylor has bones growing together in his foot. The issue isn't correctable through surgery and could cause problems down the line.
So is the story accurate? CBSSports.com (http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/28589722) reported the original story and cites several teams who say Taylor has this foot issue. Peter King of SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/04/17/mmqb/1.html)reports at least one team has removed Taylor from their draft boards because of it. Aaron Wilson of National Football Post (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source-refutes-report-about-Phil-Taylors-feet-says-he-checked-out-fine.html) refutes the report citing a source who says teams are leaking misinformation in the hopes that Taylor falls.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/26439/is-phil-taylors-stock-dropping

CBSSports.com reports (http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/28589722) that Baylor defensive tackle Phil Taylor (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/26099/phil-taylor) has potential issues with his feet. The report states that some teams are putting a red flag on Taylor because medical results at the NFL combine. Apparently, the bones in both of Taylor’s feet are growing together, which could be a long-term issue.

He is massive man, who weighs about 340 pounds, and teams could be wary of the issue. Taylor is expected to be taken in the 25-35 range. He has visited both Kansas City and Denver and is a versatile player who can fit in both the 3-4 and 4-3 defensive schemes.

I think he could be an outside possibility for the Chiefs at No. 21 or if they trade down. It will be interesting to see if this issue causes Taylor to drop.

TRR
04-21-2011, 07:08 AM
I am fine with just about anyone at #21. HOWEVER, how fine depends upon the rest of the draft, particularly rounds 2-5.

As long as KC can pull a productive WR, NT, OLB and OL in this draft...I don't care who they draft at #21. My anxiety is wrapped around taking an OL at #21, and then following it up with a round two CB and round three Safety.
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the Talking Can
04-21-2011, 07:12 AM
what about Hankerson (considered a reach) vs Carimi at #21?

the Talking Can
04-21-2011, 07:14 AM
will there be a FA period at some point, assuming they agree to new terms?

i guess there has to be


but now teams have to gamble on that post-draft, where usually they know what holes are left pre-draft...

RedThat
04-21-2011, 07:37 AM
what about Hankerson (considered a reach) vs Carimi at #21?

I like him. At 21 though, he may be a reach. But I wouldn't be surprised if some team takes a chance on him late in the first.

I was watching some video on him, his biggest knock unfortunately is catching the football. Too many drops hurt his stock. If he had excellent hands, he would be right up there with Jones and Green in the first.

*It's ironic that he has bad hands since his coach in high school was Cris Carter. But apparently he is working with Mark Duper and improving in that area.

The kid is surrounding himself with some football greats. That is a good sign and says he is eager to learn to play the position. Mark Duper thinks he is going to be a good wide receiver. And he broke Micheal Irvin's single season record for touchdown catches at Miami. He posted good numbers at the combine too. He has stuff going for him.

Chiefnj2
04-21-2011, 07:40 AM
what about Hankerson (considered a reach) vs Carimi at #21?

I'd prefer Torrey Smith over Hankerson. Smith is much more explosive. Hankerson is more polished at the moment, but his ceiling isn't as high.

TRR
04-21-2011, 07:40 AM
what about Hankerson (considered a reach) vs Carimi at #21?

Hankerson is a legit #1 WR in my opinion. I have watched him play a lot over his career, and he's always making plays.

I truly don't know what kind of leader/worker he is however. The last thing KC will draft is Bowe 2.
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suds79
04-21-2011, 07:52 AM
Carimi 10 x's > Richardson imo.

This is my favorite part of the original post.

Yes I would hope so considering Carimi is going to be a first rounder vs Richardson who was a sixth.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself then is... It it worth taking a RT with a first round pick? I'm inclined to say no because outside of LT, I don't believe in drafting Olinemen in the first.

Chief Faithful
04-21-2011, 08:10 AM
I'd prefer Torrey Smith over Hankerson. Smith is much more explosive. Hankerson is more polished at the moment, but his ceiling isn't as high.

Didn't Peterson teach us with the Trezelle Jenkins and the Ryan Sims picks to be wary of potiential?

Chiefnj2
04-21-2011, 08:37 AM
Didn't Peterson teach us with the Trezelle Jenkins and the Ryan Sims picks to be wary of potiential?

It's not like Smith is a bum at the moment. He's been a very productive receiver on a somewhat poor team. He has more 30 and 40 yard receptions than Hankerson.

Look at the AFC playoff picture. Why did the Pats lose? One big reason was they no longer had Moss and didn't have a vertical threat in the passing game. KC doesn't have that threat either. It would have helped free up Bowe if they had a receiver on the other side that the Ravens had to respect. KC also needs a real slot receiver, but you can try to address that later in the draft.

RedThat
04-21-2011, 09:57 AM
This is my favorite part of the original post.

Yes I would hope so considering Carimi is going to be a first rounder vs Richardson who was a sixth.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself then is... It it worth taking a RT with a first round pick? I'm inclined to say no because outside of LT, I don't believe in drafting Olinemen in the first.

You and most others will say no.

Im in the minority and will say yes. it is worth it to take a shot at a right tackle in the first round. As a matter of fact, I think its worth it to take ANY position on the offensive line in the first round. The question I impose to others, is, if Carimi has the potential to be an All-Pro RT that can cornerstone that position for years, will many people later complain that we took him with the 21st pick?

Detoxing
04-21-2011, 10:24 AM
I like him. At 21 though, he may be a reach. But I wouldn't be surprised if some team takes a chance on him late in the first.

I was watching some video on him, his biggest knock unfortunately is catching the football. Too many drops hurt his stock. If he had excellent hands, he would be right up there with Jones and Green in the first.

*It's ironic that he has bad hands since his coach in high school was Cris Carter. But apparently he is working with Mark Duper and improving in that area.

The kid is surrounding himself with some football greats. That is a good sign and says he is eager to learn to play the position. Mark Duper thinks he is going to be a good wide receiver. And he broke Micheal Irvin's single season record for touchdown catches at Miami. He posted good numbers at the combine too. He has stuff going for him.

The more I hear about Hankerson, the more I think he'll be a Chief.

This guy has blue collar worker written all over him. Some random site i read brought up a decent point though. The guy has been working with some of the best all his career. Could he have reached his potential already?

ct
04-21-2011, 01:59 PM
I have a sad feeling we'll be taking JJ Watt, if available.

But I'm perfectly fine w/ Carimi @21. Very few players on the board would change my mind, A.Smith, T.Smith, Constonza (sp?), one of the 2 WRs, but fully expect they will all be long gone.

Wild card pick for ya, QB Colin Kaepernick.

keg in kc
04-21-2011, 02:42 PM
I have a sad feeling we'll be taking JJ Watt, if availableI'd be really surprised to see that. That would be just shy of outright cutting Tyson Jackson.

keg in kc
04-21-2011, 02:44 PM
Im in the minority and will say yes. it is worth it to take a shot at a right tackle in the first round. As a matter of fact, I think its worth it to take ANY position on the offensive line in the first round. The question I impose to others, is, if Carimi has the potential to be an All-Pro RT that can cornerstone that position for years, will many people later complain that we took him with the 21st pick?You only think you're in the minority. There would be a lot more people complaining about a linebacker or receiver than there would be over Carimi. It's how the fanbase here has been programmed. Fans have long been in love with what they perceive as "safe picks" like offensive linemen.

Rausch
04-21-2011, 02:47 PM
In a year of unknowns you trade DOWN...

keg in kc
04-21-2011, 02:48 PM
In a year of unknowns you trade DOWN...That would 1000% be my preference.

But I've been saying that for about 4 years now. I think I'm in love with the idea of eventually trading down more than I'm in love with the idea of eventually drafting a QB.

Sfeihc
04-21-2011, 02:51 PM
In a year of unknowns you trade DOWN...

I'm always in favor of the trade down but I'm never in favor of drafting a RT in the first round. If Egoli takes a RT in the first round that would make 2 of 3 first round picks an EPIC FAIL in my book.