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KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 09:32 AM
The Bovine
April 20th, 2011

“Dr. Robert J. Gilbert has a multi-faceted background in both spiritual and scientific studies. He is a former U.S. Marine Corps Instructor in Nuclear-Biological-Chemical Warfare Survival; since leaving the service in 1985 he has conducted independent research into the Geometric basis of modern science and new technologies…..” Read more

Clearly, in light of his background, Robert Gilbert is someone worth listening to on the subject of radiation dangers from the recent nuclear disaster in Japan. Here’s an excerpt from a page on his Vesica.org website, dealing with the subject:

“AREAS WHOSE FOOD PRODUCTS MAY NOW CARRY RADIOACTIVE FALLOUT

* The Entirety of the Northern Hemisphere around the world is affected by fallout, as well as the Pacific Ocean.
* Most Serious: Japan, Pacific Ocean, and Pacific Rim States

Most Contaminated food areas of North America (based on fallout wind spread patterns charted by European scientific research agencies) in order of likely intensity of contamination, starting with the most contaminated:

* Entire Pacific Coast (note that much of the produce in North America comes from this region, especially California)
* Northern U.S. States close to Canada, and Canadian areas close to the U.S. (including Toronto etc.)
* Eastern States
* Central States of the U.S., and Far Northern areas of Canada

SAFEST AREAS OF ORIGIN FOR FOOD PRODUCTS

The majority of contamination is in the northern hemisphere and the Pacific Ocean region.

Most of the Southern Hemisphere has little to no fallout (the exception is the Southern Hemisphere in the Pacific; Australia for example is finding radioactive fish in the ocean, so although they may not get much atmospheric fallout they are affected by the massive contamination of the Pacific Ocean.)

Also note that radioactive contamination is being found on non-food products being imported from Japan.

Safest Areas of Origin for food products:

* Central America (avoid items from the Pacific Coast area of Mexico)
* South America
* Africa

Europe is also far less contaminated that North America, although it is also experiencing significant fallout; so it is a better source for products than North America, however not as good as Southern Hemisphere sources. (However some South American produce may contain high levels of pesticides not allowed to be used in the U.S. or Canada.)

ITEMS OF SPECIAL CONCERN FROM AFFECTED AREAS

Most affected:

All Ocean-Derived Products from the Pacific Ocean: the Fukushima accident dumped millions of times the normal background levels of radiation into the Pacific, where it is affecting the entire ocean (most toxic near Japan and bordering areas, but now reaching to the US West Coast: debris from the Tsunami in Japan is also expected to start washing up on the West Coast in the near future.) There are already reports of Pacific Fish showing radioactive contamination.

This indicates a need to be cautious regarding:

* All Pacific Ocean Fish
* Sea Salt or Ocean Minerals derived from the Pacific
* All Pacific Seaweed and Sea Vegetables (order Atlantic Ocean seaweed at www.theseaweedman.com )

Milk and all Dairy Products (butter, cheese etc.) from all animals: Cows, Goats, and Sheep (Dairy products have the most intense immediate absorption of radiation from fallout). Radioactive contamination of milk has been found throughout the United States, especially on the West Coast.

Any plant with a large surface area exposed to the air while growing: The most intense radiation absorption in plants is through rain falling directly on the leaves of the plant, where it is directly absorbed. Rainwater absorbed through the earth into the plant is already of much lower radiation intensity due to the filtering affect of the soil.

All broad leaf plants and plants with large surface areas grown in the open air (rather than in greenhouses) are the most contaminated, for instance Salad Greens, Spinach, Cabbage etc. Contaminated crops in California (carrying radioactive iodine and cesium) have already been confirmed by UC Berkeley.

[Carrots and other root vegetables are less contaminated due to growing underground.]

Water from Rainwater or Open Lake type catchments: instead drink bottled water, or water from underground wells or other underground sources (radiation is greatly reduced when the particles have to travel through the ground.)

PREGNANT (OR BREASTFEEDING) WOMEN AND YOUNG CHILDREN SHOULD ESPECIALLY BE CAREFUL REGARDING THESE ITEMS COMING FROM FALLOUT AFFECTED AREAS…”

http://theintelhub.com/2011/04/20/radiation-fallout-from-japan-affects-food-safety-across-north-america/

ROYC75
04-21-2011, 09:44 AM
Kings of Leon: Radioactive

When the role is called up yonder
I hope you see me there

It's in the water
It's where you came from
It's in the water
It's where you came from

And the crowd begins to wonder
And they cry to see your face

It's in the water...
It's in the story
It's where you came from
The sons and daughters
In all their glory
It's gonna shape them
And when they clash
And come together
And start rising
Just drink the water
Where you came from...
Where you came from

You're the rose


That was called from yonder
Never sold yourself away

It's in the water...
It's in the story
It's where you came from
The sons and daughters
In all their glory
It's gonna shape them
And when they clash
And come together
And start rising
Just drink the water
Where you came from...
Where you came from

And when they clash
And come together
And start rising
Just drink the water
Where you came from...
Where you came from

chiefsnorth
04-21-2011, 09:51 AM
That guy's credentials are only slightly more extensive than are mine ROFL.

Have fun driving to the grocery store in Chile.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 09:53 AM
That guy's credentials are only slightly more extensive than are mine ROFL.

Have fun driving to the grocery store in Chile.

Right so we need a good liar to tell us how things are? This is a giant problem in America.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Highest Yet: UCB finds 13+ pCi/l of Cesium-137 in store-bought milk from San Francisco Bay Area

UCB Milk Sampling Results, University of California, Berkeley Department of Nuclear Engineering:

Here’s how UCB describes the latest milk findings: “The store-bought milk levels of I-131, Cs-134, and Cs-137 are showing definite signs of leveling off.”

http://enenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/502milk.jpg

http://enenews.com/highest-ucb-finds-13-pcil-cesium-137-store-bought-milk-san-francisco-bay-area

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 09:56 AM
Cesium-134 in Northern California topsoil more than double previous test

UCB Food Chain Sampling Results, University of California, Berkeley Department of Nuclear Engineering:

http://enenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/topsoil420.jpg

Saulbadguy
04-21-2011, 09:56 AM
Right so we need a good liar to tell us how things are? This is a giant problem in America.

So we should all expect to die of radiation poisoning very soon?

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 09:59 AM
BREAKING NEWS: Radiation Spreads throughout the Northern Hemisphere
Dynamic Map

by Norwegian Institute for Air Research


Global Research, April 20, 2011
nilu.no

Below is the static map based on real time tabulations of the Norwegian Institute of Air Research pertaining to potential releases of radiation from the Fukushima plant.

For the dynamic version of this map, regional dynamic maps as well as technical information click below. Jpan and North america static maps are indicated below

You will need to refresh the dynamic map (Global Research, April 20, 2011)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articlePictures/RADIATION%20conccol_Xe-133_20110420T060000.png

http://squid.nilu.no/~burkhart/sharing/JAPAN/FLEXPART_FORECASTS/Japan/conccol_I-131_20110420T120000.png

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24411

Donger
04-21-2011, 09:59 AM
Right so we need a good liar to tell us how things are? This is a giant problem in America.

No, it isn't.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:00 AM
So we should all expect to die of radiation poisoning very soon?

Ya that's what i said! No but could smarter choices affect your life?

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:00 AM
No, it isn't.

Thanks official white house souse!

Donger
04-21-2011, 10:02 AM
Thanks official white house souse!

Actually, my source is this: University of California, Berkeley Department of Nuclear Engineering

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/2174

Please note that though all I-131 activities have increased due to this revision, the levels are still very low -- one would have to consume at least 1,900 liters of milk to receive the same radiation dose as a cross-country airplane trip.

That's the same source as yours above, yes?

chiefsnorth
04-21-2011, 10:04 AM
Right so we need a good liar to tell us how things are? This is a giant problem in America.

We'll find out if you are right, klaxon, if everyone in the northern hemisphere dies of thyroid cancer soon.

ChiefaRoo
04-21-2011, 10:04 AM
A little radiation exposure builds character.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:04 AM
Actually, my source is this: University of California, Berkeley Department of Nuclear Engineering

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/2174

Please note that though all I-131 activities have increased due to this revision, the levels are still very low -- one would have to consume at least 1,900 liters of milk to receive the same radiation dose as a cross-country airplane trip.

That's the same source as yours above, yes?

Do you expect them to come out and tell everyone to panic? No the government just raises the "safe levels" as need be.

Donger
04-21-2011, 10:05 AM
Do you expect them to come out and tell everyone to panic? No the government just raises the "safe levels" as need be.

Wait, so you are suggesting that the source you used to try to scare everyone is, in fact, lying?

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:06 AM
We'll find out if you are right, klaxon, if everyone in the northern hemisphere dies of thyroid cancer soon.

No it would have a random effect, but how could cancer rates not increase?

chiefsnorth
04-21-2011, 10:07 AM
Do you expect them to come out and tell everyone to panic? No the government just raises the "safe levels" as need be.

:LOL:

No source can be trusted but my favorite bloggers...Everyone else is in on the fix...

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:07 AM
Wait, so you are suggesting that the source you used to try to scare everyone is, in fact, lying?

No moreso told what to say after the initial findings.

chiefsnorth
04-21-2011, 10:08 AM
No it would have a random effect, but how could cancer rates not increase?

They could not increase because the dose received is minuscule.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:09 AM
:LOL:

No source can be trusted but my favorite bloggers...Everyone else is in on the fix...

I don't have a favored bloggers list, just the American spirit which gives me the superhero ability to smell BS from galaxies away!

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:10 AM
They could not increase because the dose received is minuscule.

Fine by me if you want to ignore simple precautions that could save your life.

Huffmeister
04-21-2011, 10:11 AM
Radioactive Toy - Porcupine Tree

Run through forests on a hot Summer day
Trying to break down walls of numbing pain

Give me the freedom to destroy
Give me radioactive toy

Taste the water from a stream of running death
Eat the apple and cough a dying breath

Feel the sun burning through your black skin
Pour me into a hole, inform my next of kin

Run through graveyards on a dusty Winter day
Spit the dirt out and try to say...

Donger
04-21-2011, 10:12 AM
Fine by me if you want to ignore simple precautions that could save your life.

Do you ever fly in airplanes?

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:22 AM
Do you ever fly in airplanes?

Rarely, i usually hitch a ride with Madden.

chiefsnorth
04-21-2011, 10:22 AM
Do you ever fly in airplanes?

I wonder if when his doctor suggests a CT or a Flouroscopy if he goes all Mr. Bill and runs out of the building hooting.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:23 AM
I wonder if when his doctor suggests a CT or a Flouroscopy if he goes all Mr. Bill and runs out of the building hooting.

I haven't seen a doctor in almost 20 years.

blaise
04-21-2011, 10:37 AM
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WkTfJNK3SYk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 10:42 AM
So we should all expect to die of radiation poisoning very soon?

Not necessarily. Perhaps gigantic fruits and vegetables which in turn produce giant boobs on and penises on men and women from eating the food. Afterall, there is an upside to anything. ;):p

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 10:44 AM
Do you ever fly in airplanes?

To be honest with you I have been concerned about the fish products from that part of the Pacific. I seem to recall reading after Chernoble that some countries, I think it was Sweden, had some of their livestocks develop abnormalities. I'll see if I can find anything on the net regarding this.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 10:47 AM
For Europe, both Eastern and Western, the Chernobyl catastrophe had two results.
First, the catastrophe had the effect of causing wide-spread agricultural loss in a wide variety of countries, up to two years after the explosion. A wide variety of agricultural crops and
grazing animals, were found to have absorbed large amounts of contaminants (through rain water or grazing in affected areas), and deemed unsuitable for human consumption.


http://www1.american.edu/TED/chernob.htm



Elsewhere in Europe, levels of radiation were examined in various natural foodstocks. In both Sweden and Finland, fish in deep freshwater lakes were banned for resale and landowners were advised not to consume certain types.

Link also cites increases in Down Syndrome, chromosomal aberrations in parts of Europe and other studies on Europe including 369 farms in the UK and the Sami peoples of the Arctic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster_effects

wazu
04-21-2011, 10:58 AM
I haven't seen a doctor in almost 20 years.

I think this would make an appropriate "final post" for you in this thread.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 10:59 AM
http://www1.american.edu/TED/chernob.htm





Link also cites increases in Down Syndrome, chromosomal aberrations in parts of Europe and other studies on Europe including 369 farms in the UK and the Sami peoples of the Arctic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster_effects

Radiation is good for you, or hadn't you heard?

http://www.interinactive.com/stuff/derp.png

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 11:01 AM
I think this would make an appropriate "final post" for you in this thread.

Yes because everyone needs death care, if you aren't sick you probably don't need a doctor.

Donger
04-21-2011, 11:02 AM
To be honest with you I have been concerned about the fish products from that part of the Pacific. I seem to recall reading after Chernoble that some countries, I think it was Sweden, had some of their livestocks develop abnormalities. I'll see if I can find anything on the net regarding this.

The amount of radiation released by Chernoybl was 10X Fukushima.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 11:12 AM
The amount of radiation released by Chernoybl was 10X Fukushima.

Do you have proof of this? or is it just a stab in the dark?

Donger
04-21-2011, 11:19 AM
Do you have proof of this? or is it just a stab in the dark?

IAEA

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 11:20 AM
IAEA

Well that should settle it, not like they've ever had internal problems or scandals.

Donger
04-21-2011, 11:21 AM
Well that should settle it, not like they've ever had internal problems or scandals.

Who exactly would you believe then?

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 11:23 AM
Who exactly would you believe then?

Jesus.

crazycoffey
04-21-2011, 11:31 AM
Jesus.

Jesus doesn't believe in Ionization...

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 11:33 AM
The amount of radiation released by Chernoybl was 10X Fukushima.

According to the news I'm hearing the radiation levels have been reported as rising and the level of the disaster raised to level 7—the same as Chernoble. Even if it wasn't, that doesn't mean there is zero effect on food sources due to weather patterns. It would just mean a lower level of radiation wouldn't it?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13045341


Japanese authorities have raised the severity rating of their nuclear crisis to the highest level, seven....

The level seven signifies a "major accident" with "wider consequences" than the previous level, officials say.

"We have upgraded the severity level to seven as the impact of radiation leaks has been widespread from the air, vegetables, tap water and the ocean," said Minoru Oogoda of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (Nisa), the government's nuclear watchdog...

The level seven signifies a "major accident" with "wider consequences" than the previous level, officials say...

I realize there is one person in that whole link that says something different...but this situation is still on-going and not resolved yet. I'd rather be cautious then overly optomistic. You mileage may vary. Each to his own.

Donger
04-21-2011, 11:36 AM
According to the news I'm hearing the radiation levels have been reported as rising and the level of the disaster raised to level 7—the same as Chernoble. Even if it wasn't, that doesn't mean there is zero effect on food sources due to weather patterns. It would just mean a lower level of radiation wouldn't it?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13045341




I realize there is one person in that whole link that says something different...but this situation is still on-going and not resolved yet.

It was raised to level 7 a few weeks ago.

Yes, there will certainly be some contamination of food, especially in Japan. But, will there be dangerous contamination of food supplies in North America?

No.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 11:40 AM
It was raised to level 7 a few weeks ago.

Yes, there will certainly be some contamination of food, especially in Japan. But, will there be dangerous contamination of food supplies in North America?

No.

That's speculation on your part since you don't know that yet. Already, there is one doctor who disagrees with you. I realize your work is related to this industry giving you a need to downplay it though. Plus it's the job of govt to downplay such things to prevent panic. I still say I'd rather be cautious for the time being. I don't think it's entirely unplausible that some effects may not crop up.

Donger
04-21-2011, 11:43 AM
That's speculation on your part since you don't know that yet. Already, there is one doctor who disagrees with you. I realize your work is related to this industry giving you a need to downplay it though. Plus it's the job of govt to downplay such things to prevent panic. I still say I'd rather be cautious for the time being. I don't think it's entirely unplausible that some effects may not crop up.

Sure, I can't see the future. But, the situation at the plant has more or less stabilized. In other words, there's not going to be another release of radiation like what has happened. Therefore, it's unlikely that we'll see any dangerous levels of radiation here.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 11:49 AM
Sure, I can't see the future. But, the situation at the plant has more or less stabilized. In other words, there's not going to be another release of radiation like what has happened. Therefore, it's unlikely that we'll see any dangerous levels of radiation here.

Well, all I know is that even our own EPA and FDA have stepped up nationwide monitoring of radiation in milk, rain and drinking water. Particularly, since some radiation was found in milk in Washington state. Yeah, yeah, I know they're saying it's not at a high level amount yet to be a risk—but the point is it's in there when it wasn't before. I don't like that. Nor do I expect these agencies to really keep us safe because a govt standard is usually lower than a private person's standard. I'm already staying away from any north Pacific fish.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 11:57 AM
Have fun driving to the grocery store in Chile.

Heh,heh! That gave me a chuckle. Then again, it's not a bad idea since there's always mail order.

Donger
04-21-2011, 11:58 AM
Well, all I know is that even our own EPA and FDA have stepped up nationwide monitoring of radiation in milk, rain and drinking water. Particularly, since some radiation was found in milk in Washington state. Yeah, yeah, I know they're saying it's not at a high level amount yet to be a risk—but the point is it's in there when it wasn't before. I don't like that. Nor do I expect these agencies to really keep us safe because a govt standard is usually lower than a private person's standard. I'm already staying away from any north Pacific fish.

I don't like it either, but the levels aren't dangerous here.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 11:59 AM
Wait, so you are suggesting that the source you used to try to scare everyone is, in fact, lying?

Come on donger, you scare everyone with your Iran is developing a nuclear bomb despite experts with contrary evidence. And you rely on the same sources that brought us the false charges on Iraq.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 11:59 AM
I don't like it either, but the levels aren't dangerous here.

I don't trust govt reports on such things. I mean, the Japanese govt downplayed things at first too. That doesn't mean they're always right.
The truth may be somewhere between the two camps but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Donger
04-21-2011, 12:03 PM
Come on donger, you scare everyone with your Iran is developing a nuclear bomb despite experts with contrary evidence. And you rely on the same sources that brought us the false charges on Iraq.

Iran admits that is enriching beyond the level required for reactors.

Amnorix
04-21-2011, 12:04 PM
I don't have a favored bloggers list, just the American spirit which gives me the superhero ability to believe that every word by any governmental agency, or institution, which doesn't support my pet theories regarding global conspiracies and the imminent demise of mankind and its entire socio-economic structure, is BS, not matter how overwhelming the evidence to the contrary!

FYP

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 12:04 PM
Iran admits that is enriching beyond the level required for reactors.

Link?

Amnorix
04-21-2011, 12:07 PM
I don't trust govt reports EVAH!


FYP

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 12:08 PM
I always believe what the govt tells me.
FYP

Donger
04-21-2011, 12:09 PM
Link?

http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/deconstructing-the-meaning-of-irans-20-percent-uranium-enrichment

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 12:10 PM
http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/deconstructing-the-meaning-of-irans-20-percent-uranium-enrichment

Deconstructing the meaning? Sounds like an opinion piece.
I believe we've gone through this before and there's still contrary facts.

Donger
04-21-2011, 12:12 PM
Deconstructing the meaning? Sounds like an opinion piece.
I believe we've gone through this before and there's still contrary facts.

Iran made the claim and it has been confirmed by the IAEA. From the article above:

On February 11, the 31st anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered the "sweet" news that Iran had successfully produced 20 percent enriched uranium. More than anything, the announcement served as Iran's response to the stalemate over purchasing fuel for the Tehran Research Reactor that is used, in part, to produce medical isotopes. The United States--which has pushed for tougher sanctions against Iran since the beginning of 2010, when President Barack Obama's deadline for engagement expired-- dismissed Ahmadinejad's announcement as a simple act of defiance. The White House questioned Iran's ability to enrich to such levels, calling the Iranian president's statement likely "based on politics, not on physics." By the end of February, however, Iran's achievement was confirmed PDF by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). And it is a hefty achievement that should not be taken so lightly.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 12:16 PM
FYP

Ahh a great example

http://www.interinactive.com/stuff/derp.png

LOCOChief
04-21-2011, 12:34 PM
They could not increase because the dose received is minuscule.

It's not minuscule to those who have received radiation treatments and are RAD maxed out.

They are getting very very sleepy.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 12:39 PM
Iran made the claim and it has been confirmed by the IAEA. From the article above:

On February 11, the 31st anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered the "sweet" news that Iran had successfully produced 20 percent enriched uranium. More than anything, the announcement served as Iran's response to the stalemate over purchasing fuel for the Tehran Research Reactor that is used, in part, to produce medical isotopes. The United States--which has pushed for tougher sanctions against Iran since the beginning of 2010, when President Barack Obama's deadline for engagement expired-- dismissed Ahmadinejad's announcement as a simple act of defiance. The White House questioned Iran's ability to enrich to such levels, calling the Iranian president's statement likely "based on politics, not on physics." By the end of February, however, Iran's achievement was confirmed PDF by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). And it is a hefty achievement that should not be taken so lightly.
The original story on that was pulled by the AP when antiwar.com ran an expose on it including what the IAEA actually said in their own report.

AP article fuels WAR HYSTERIA (http://news.antiwar.com/2010/02/08/ap-article-fuels-iran-war-hysteria/)
In fact the IAEA’s own confirmation of the Iranian statement says simply that Iran is planning to begin efforts for “production of less than 20 percent enriched uranium,” noted by the AP piece as “just below the threshold for high enriched uranium” but actually well short of the 90 percent plus needed for weapons grade material.

AND

Iran says it will stop higher uranium enrichment if provided nuclear fuel (http://wire.antiwar.com/2010/02/09/iran-to-stop-enrichment-if-given-nuclear-fuel-4/)


For argument sakes let's say your side is 100% correct on Iran trying to get a nuclear weapon: Why would you still try to scare "everyone" into believing they have the capacity to send it over here? Or use it at all offensively as opposed to for defense? I mean they have Iraq occupied by an invader who possesses nukes on their west and a permanent occupation on their eastern border by a country that proclaims them an enemy and dangerous and who has nukes. It seems more likely to be to protect themselves IF it were true. Did the Soviet Union ever use their nukes?

So either way, Donger, you are projecting when you accuse KC of trying to scare "everyone." That's what certain interests in our govt have been doing.

chiefsnorth
04-21-2011, 12:40 PM
It's not minuscule to those who have received radiation treatments and are RAD maxed out.

They are getting very very sleepy.

We were discussing Killer Clown's idea that all the food in north America has been irradiated and that you might die if you don't follow this article he found on a blog - not the people who have been physically working atthe reactor.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 12:44 PM
We were discussing Killer Clown's idea that all the food in north America has been irradiated and that you might die if you don't follow this article he found on a blog - not the people who have been physically working atthe reactor.

I didn't see the word "all" in the original post? I saw the word "areas" and the specific ones were listed along with where safe ones existed.

Donger
04-21-2011, 12:44 PM
The original story on that was pulled by the AP when antiwar.com ran an expose on it including what teh IAEA actually said in their own report.

AP article fuels WAR HYSTERIA (http://news.antiwar.com/2010/02/08/ap-article-fuels-iran-war-hysteria/)


AND

Iran says it will stop higher uranium enrichment if provided nuclear fuel (http://wire.antiwar.com/2010/02/09/iran-to-stop-enrichment-if-given-nuclear-fuel-4/)

I'm not going to give anti-war.com much credence, sorry. Iran has enriched to 20% and the IAEA confirmed it. I realize you don't like that, but your dislike doesn't change that fact.

For argument sakes let's say your side is 100% correct on Iran trying to get a nuclear weapon: Why would you still try to scare "everyone" into believe they could send it over here? Or use it at all offensively as opposed to for defense. I mean they have Iraq occupied by an invader on their west and a permanent occupation on their eastern border by a country that proclaims them an enemy and dangerous. It seems more likely to be to protect themselves IF it were true. Did the Soviet Union ever use their nukes?

So either way, Donger, you are projecting when you accuse KC of trying to scare "everyone." That's what certain interests in our govt have been doing.

There are such things called ships, shipping containers, airplanes, etc. AN ICBM isn't the only way to delivery a physics package.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 12:49 PM
I'm not going to give anti-war.com much credence, sorry. Iran has enriched to 20% and the IAEA confirmed it. I realize you don't like that, but your dislike doesn't change that fact.
Of course not—even if the AP gave it enough credence to pull their own story. You'd rather trust the same people who made false claims about Iraq. I will say it again:

Fool me once shame on you.
Fool me twice shame on me.

Your dislike doesn't change the facts either....especially when inspections are not set up in a way to get all the facts. So keep claiming your conjecture as fact. However, it's not my point. My point is it's human nature to accuse others of what we've done. Hence, you accusing KC of trying to scare "everyone." How is that different on your threads on Iran? It isn't. I know what you'll say next and that is it's something we should be aware of and keep our eye on. No doubt. However, you need to the extend the same reasoning defense to KC to be fair. Otherwise, just stick to refuting his facts instead of his intentions which you can't be 100% certain of.


There are such things called ships, shipping containers, airplanes, etc. AN ICBM isn't the only way to delivery a physics package.
That may be...but I still say it's a defensive measure by them IF true. I say there are still contrary facts as to the veracity of what they have or are doing.

Donger
04-21-2011, 12:51 PM
Of course not—even if the AP gave it enough credence to pull their own story. You'd rather trust the same people who made false claims about Iraq. I will say it again:

Fool me once shame on you.
Fool me twice shame on me.

Your dislike doesn't change the facts either....especially when inspections are not set up in a way to get all the facts. So keep claiming your conjecture as fact. However, it's not my point. My point is it's human nature to accuse others of what we've done. Hence, you accusing KC of trying to scare "everyone."



That may be...but I still say it's a defensive measure by them IF true. I say there are still contrary facts as to the veracity of what they have or are doing.

I don't care about the AP or its story. Many people don't understand the details involved in enriching uranium. The IAEA does. If you don't want to believe them, fine.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 12:54 PM
I don't care about the AP or its story. Many people don't understand the details involved in enriching uranium. The IAEA does. If you don't want to believe them, fine.

The IAEA report if you read the link does not make the claims you say they did. If I recall you sent me a pdf and I read it and came to the same conclusion but it may have been on another point.

I wanted to add one more thing about anti-war.com: their reporting on Iraq before we went in turned out to be true. The claims by our msm, including the left-leaning NYTs turned out to be wrong. I will go by who got results the first time. But that's just me. We all have our own standards.

Donger
04-21-2011, 12:59 PM
The IAEA report if you read the link does not make the claims you say they did. If I recall you sent me a pdf and I read it and came to the same conclusion but it may have been on another point.

I wanted to add one more thing about anti-war.com: their reporting on Iraq before we went in turned out to be true. The claims by our msm, including the left-leaning NYTs turned out to be wrong. I will go by who got results the first time. But that's just me. We all have our own standards.

It's right here: http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Board/2010/gov2010-10.pdf

And, it's linked in the Bulletin's article I posted above.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 01:02 PM
Sure, I can't see the future. But, the situation at the plant has more or less stabilized. In other words, there's not going to be another release of radiation like what has happened. Therefore, it's unlikely that we'll see any dangerous levels of radiation here.

I got that earlier but thank you for a reminder. To me I will determine what is dangerous for myself and family, if you don't mind. I appreciate knowing about this so I can be on guard. Afterall, I don't follow the govt's stoopid food pyramid and a host of other health issues. We have an FDA but one big cause of deaths is properly prescribed drugs ( more than gun deaths) and it's the EPA that allows a certain level of pollution because they consider it a safe level. To some those standards aren't high enough. Everyone has their own standards.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 01:03 PM
It's right here: http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Board/2010/gov2010-10.pdf

And, it's linked in the Bulletin's article I posted above.

I believe I saw it already and argued with you over it previously. I will reiterate, it's not my real point. My point is you're scared of Iran and think others should be too. Therefore you report it so others will be aware of it. Then you chastise KC for doing the same thing. That's my point.

Stewie
04-21-2011, 01:11 PM
I can't wait for the next California dairy commercial. "Happy cows, blah, blah, blah... radiation is good!" It's amazing that the 25,000 cows that died in California in the heat wave in '06 weren't part of their ad campaign. They can't show carcasses and call them happy.

I have a nuclear radiation detector at work because I use an x-ray diffractometer. No change here in eastern Kansas. Buy local!

Donger
04-21-2011, 02:16 PM
I believe I saw it already and argued with you over it previously. I will reiterate, it's not my real point. My point is you're scared of Iran and think others should be too. Therefore you report it so others will be aware of it. Then you chastise KC for doing the same thing. That's my point.

Of course it isn't your point. You don't want to acknowledge that Iran has enriched to 20%, which is well-above what is needed for a power reactor.

I chastised KC because he has no EVIDENCE that there is sufficient radiation from Fukushima in our food supply for it to be dangerous.

Zero. None.

So, I think that's scare-mongering.

Is pointing out the FACTS that Iran has admitted and the IAEA has confirmed that Iran has enriched to 20% fear-mongering? No. It's simply pointing out facts.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-21-2011, 02:55 PM
Buy local!

Yup, seems fairly logical anyway.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 03:03 PM
Of course it isn't your point. You don't want to acknowledge that Iran has enriched to 20%, which is well-above what is needed for a power reactor.

I chastised KC because he has no EVIDENCE that there is sufficient radiation from Fukushima in our food supply for it to be dangerous.

Zero. None.

So, I think that's scare-mongering.

Is pointing out the FACTS that Iran has admitted and the IAEA has confirmed that Iran has enriched to 20% fear-mongering? No. It's simply pointing out facts.

He provided testimony of a doctor saying contamination has been found which is in line with the FDA and EPA's findings. He didn't say how much or if too high that I noticed...just that there is contamination. Testimony is a form of evidence. That's like me saying you have zero evidence on Iran when you have alleged testimony that has been refuted which shows there are, at the very least, contrary facts. I suppose each side could produce their own experts though. Still, you haven't produced contrary facts as to whether or there is contamination in some of our food.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 03:06 PM
I can't wait for the next California dairy commercial. "Happy cows, blah, blah, blah... radiation is good!" It's amazing that the 25,000 cows that died in California in the heat wave in '06 weren't part of their ad campaign. They can't show carcasses and call them happy.

I have a nuclear radiation detector at work because I use an x-ray diffractometer. No change here in eastern Kansas. Buy local!

That produce in the supermarket that claims to be from So America, and which has made me very sick in the past, are starting to look pretty good now.

Donger
04-21-2011, 03:06 PM
He provided testimony of a doctor. Testimony is a form of evidence. That's like me saying you have zero evidence on Iran when you have alleged testimony that has been refuted which shows there are contrary facts. I suppose each side could produce their own experts though.

Yep, he sure did: http://www.vesica.org/main/about-us

Dr. Robert J. Gilbert has a multi-faceted background in both spiritual and scientific studies. He is a former U.S. Marine Corps Instructor in Nuclear-Biological-Chemical Warfare Survival; since leaving the service in 1985 he has conducted independent research into the Geometric basis of modern science and new technologies. Dr. Gilbert is also a Rosicrucian with more than 20 years of experience in Sacred Geometry and its hidden uses by the world's great spiritual traditions. His non-sectarian approach is inclusive of individuals from all spiritual traditions. Dr. Gilbert holds a Ph.D. in International Studies and is a published academic author in that field, contributing to the first academic textbook in the new field of Transformational Politics.

In 1997 Dr. Gilbert began for the first time to teach publicly the results of his two decades of intensive research. Today he teaches both publicly and privately in Asheville, NC. Dr. Gilbert also offers a small number of his VESICA series of special seminars throughout the United States every year.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 03:11 PM
Yep, he sure did: http://www.vesica.org/main/about-us

Dr. Robert J. Gilbert has a multi-faceted background in both spiritual and scientific studies. He is a former U.S. Marine Corps Instructor in Nuclear-Biological-Chemical Warfare Survival; since leaving the service in 1985 he has conducted independent research into the Geometric basis of modern science and new technologies. Dr. Gilbert is also a Rosicrucian with more than 20 years of experience in Sacred Geometry and its hidden uses by the world's great spiritual traditions. His non-sectarian approach is inclusive of individuals from all spiritual traditions. Dr. Gilbert holds a Ph.D. in International Studies and is a published academic author in that field, contributing to the first academic textbook in the new field of Transformational Politics.

In 1997 Dr. Gilbert began for the first time to teach publicly the results of his two decades of intensive research. Today he teaches both publicly and privately in Asheville, NC. Dr. Gilbert also offers a small number of his VESICA series of special seminars throughout the United States every year.

So because he's a Rosicrucian all his science is wrong? Uh huh. I get it now, when you can't refute use ad hominem or focus on a quirk in one's belief system.
Thank you for showing me how you've lost the argument.


"I just looked up what sacred geometry is: geometry used in the planning and construction of religious structures such as churches, temples, mosques, religious monuments, altars, tabernacles;" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_geometry

It sounds odd at first glance but it's not so weird if one looks up what it is.

Donger
04-21-2011, 03:17 PM
So because he's a Rosicrucian all his science is wrong? Uh huh. I get it now, when you can't refute use ad hominem or focus on a quirk in one's belief system.
Thank you for showing me how you've lost the argument.


"I just looked up what sacred geometry is: geometry used in the planning and construction of religious structures such as churches, temples, mosques, religious monuments, altars, tabernacles;" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_geometry

It sounds odd at first glance but it's not so weird if one looks up what it is.

No. He's has a PhD in International Relations. You think that makes him an expert in radiation and how it interacts with food?

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 03:28 PM
No. He's has a PhD in International Relations. You think that makes him an expert in radiation and how it interacts with food?

I saw multi-faceted background which included scientific studies. Are you switching to another logical fallacy called appealing to authority now instead? Really, Donger, his statements have been corroborated by the EPA and FDA since how much contamination was not stated in the OP. It doesn't require a PhD.

Donger
04-21-2011, 03:30 PM
I saw multi-faceted background which included scientific studies. Are you switching to another logical fallacy called appealing to authority now instead? Really, Donger, his statements have been corroborated by the EPA and FDA since how much contamination was not stated in the OP.

You seemed to be implying that he was a doctor. You know, a scientific one.

We don't know what training other than his military is applicable to this field.

But, by all means, cling to it. I'll stick with the actual scientific data.

Donger
04-21-2011, 03:32 PM
I saw multi-faceted background which included scientific studies. Are you switching to another logical fallacy called appealing to authority now instead? Really, Donger, his statements have been corroborated by the EPA and FDA since how much contamination was not stated in the OP. It doesn't require a PhD.

Really? The EPA and FDA corroborated this claim?

the Fukushima accident dumped millions of times the normal background levels of radiation into the Pacific, where it is affecting the entire ocean

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 03:34 PM
You seemed to be implying that he was a doctor. You know, a scientific one.

We don't know what training other than his military is applicable to this field.

But, by all means, cling to it. I'll stick with the actual scientific data.

Doctor just means a person with a lot of knowledge but yes originally I lumped him in with "scientific studies." My bad. Still this does not require a PhD as you seem to think.
But what is so unscientific as "U.S. Marine Corps Instructor in Nuclear-Biological-Chemical Warfare Survival?" So you can cling to it even if our own EPA and FDA have found the same thing. I fail to see how this is not scientific data. Contamination has been found and is fact.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 03:42 PM
Really? The EPA and FDA corroborated this claim?

the Fukushima accident dumped millions of times the normal background levels of radiation into the Pacific, where it is affecting the entire ocean

When I mentioned the milk found in Washington state, I put the link in didn't I?
I did say, " yeah, yeah, both say it's not high enough to be dangerous." BTW the two agencies have different standards for what is too high or low.

chiefsnorth
04-21-2011, 04:11 PM
LMAO I'm going to email my favorite old English professor and see what he thinks about food safety...

HonestChieffan
04-21-2011, 04:30 PM
I may not shoot a turkey this season. They roost in trees and are outside 24/7 exposed to all this stuff. Next we will see bobcats the size of african lions, coyotes with three heads, and god knows what calves will look like. Deer may have bigger horns though.

BucEyedPea
04-21-2011, 04:41 PM
LMAO I'm going to email my favorite old English professor and see what he thinks about food safety...

What this means is no one can comment on the matter—including you.