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HonestChieffan
05-09-2011, 07:13 PM
Yes sir. Golf, a bil for people havin some christian killin fun, some trips to yehaw Osama being dead, and a trip down to Texas to suck up on some illegals. A good week.

POS.


Washington — President Barack Obama’s commitment to providing some legal status for illegal aliens is reflected in the time he has spent focusing on the country’s immigration laws in recent weeks, the White House said one day before the president is set to deliver a national address on immigration from El Paso, Texas.

El Paso is across the border from Juarez, Mexico, a city where 3,111 civilians were murdered last year — more than in all of Afghanistan.

In recent weeks, Obama met with current and former elected officials, business leaders and Hollywood celebrities – all whom agreed with his position on the matter — to promote comprehensive immigration reform.

Proponents call the proposal a “pathway to citizenship” for the roughly 12 million illegal aliens in the country; critics call it “amnesty.”

“It will reflect his commitment to comprehensive immigration reform,” White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Monday. “We weren’t able to achieve it in the first part of the president’s term but it remains a priority of the president, even though it’s hard. He takes on hard things because he believes they’re important to get done. Hard things often need bipartisan support.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-tout-comprehensive-immigration-ref

Pedro
05-09-2011, 07:27 PM
¿Qué tiene de malo un poco de amnistía?

mlyonsd
05-09-2011, 07:30 PM
At some point sanity will prevail and amnesty will die the ugly death it deserves.

Both parties are guilty.

Kicking this ball further down the road isn't leading. More like ignoring leadership alltogether.

BigChiefFan
05-09-2011, 09:25 PM
Just what we need, is more people to compete with what little jobs are left. Brilliant.

Simplex3
05-09-2011, 10:18 PM
Only if I can stop paying my taxes for about a decade and get amnesty.

go bowe
05-09-2011, 10:26 PM
Only if I can stop paying my taxes for about a decade and get amnesty.i like the way you think... :D :D :D

LiveSteam
05-09-2011, 10:49 PM
But I dont want them hear. Never did. Go home. Go fix your own country.

BucEyedPea
05-09-2011, 11:05 PM
But I dont want them hear. Never did. Go home. Go fix your own country.

Well, at least the crappy economy has sent many of the packing already. T'is an aweful price to pay though.

Ugly Duck
05-10-2011, 03:15 AM
"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally" Ronald Reagan 1984.

Reagan granted amnesty for 3 million illegals in between negotiating with terrorists and running up record deficits.

http://media.npr.org/assets/news/2010/07/04/reagan.jpg?t=1279822556&s=2

redsurfer11
05-10-2011, 04:07 AM
Just take over Mexico and Guatemala. Add 20 something stars to the flag. Build a small fence at the southern border.

BigRichard
05-10-2011, 04:44 AM
Just take over Mexico and Guatemala. Add 20 something stars to the flag. Build a small fence at the southern border.

We got about half of them here anyway. Might as well.

RedNeckRaider
05-10-2011, 06:39 AM
Deberíamos haber comenzado a disparar a ellos cuando ellos se cruzan hace años~

blaise
05-10-2011, 07:09 AM
"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally" Ronald Reagan 1984.

Reagan granted amnesty for 3 million illegals in between negotiating with terrorists and running up record deficits.

http://media.npr.org/assets/news/2010/07/04/reagan.jpg?t=1279822556&s=2

So you thought Reagan did a good job with amnesty, or you think Obama is wrong about it?

stevieray
05-10-2011, 07:13 AM
So you thought Reagan did a good job with amnesty, or you think Obama is wrong about it?

dem/libs are notorious for propping up people they've mocked when it supposedly excuses the same behaviour from their politicans.

"well, he did it too..."

...like children.

LOCOChief
05-10-2011, 07:14 AM
"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally" Ronald Reagan 1984.

Reagan granted amnesty for 3 million illegals in between negotiating with terrorists and running up record deficits.

http://media.npr.org/assets/news/2010/07/04/reagan.jpg?t=1279822556&s=2



Oh Ok that means we should do it again.

That means if you come here illegally at some point in time you'll be made legal. Screw going through the legal path of becoming a US Citizen and screw all those who have done this.

We stick our necks out in afghanistan for no other reason than to say it's "so we don't have to fight them here"

Close the fucking boarders you dumbass idiots! Those votes will cost US lives.

alnorth
05-10-2011, 07:34 AM
Politically speaking, Obama's probably got no choice but to start banging the amnesty drum. Latino voters are absolutely pissed that he basically did nothing for them when the dems had a strangle-hold majority of congress.

Amnesty would not have passed the senate even then, but many of them probably thought it could have. He's at least got to talk the talk to try to keep them from staying home in 2012.

I'm now convinced that amnesty is (rightfully) never going to pass in the next decade or two, and I'm pretty sure we'll eventually get a congress and a president willing to make it so miserable to be illegal here that they self-deport.

Farmers do not have a constitutional right to slave labor, they need to pay more for american workers. If we want to subsidize food prices do it directly rather than indirectly by turning a blind eye. If that becomes impossible and we need migrant workers, then I'm fine with guest-worker passes for 6 months a year, but the border has to be sealed and employers need to be forced to hire legal workers.

LOCOChief
05-10-2011, 07:50 AM
I'm pretty sure we'll eventually get a congress and a president willing to make it so miserable to be illegal here that they self-deport.



The congress and president we have now only makes us legals want to "self-deport"

thecoffeeguy
05-10-2011, 08:27 AM
http://www.numbersusa.com

Ugly Duck
05-10-2011, 09:05 AM
So you thought Reagan did a good job with amnesty, or you think Obama is wrong about it?

Just taking any opportunity to point out that Reagan should not be worshiped by conservatives as a great (or even a good) president.

blaise
05-10-2011, 09:16 AM
Just taking any opportunity to point out that Reagan should not be worshiped by conservatives as a great (or even a good) president.

Seemed to me like you were pointing out something good he did. Unless, you're saying Obama doing it would be bad.

ClevelandBronco
05-10-2011, 09:39 AM
The asshole is letting all his Osama winnings ride on legalizing Pedro? I love it.

Amnorix
05-10-2011, 09:45 AM
I'd be fine with an amnesty or whatever as long as we had dramatic immigration reform and solid enforcement behind it. I'm not anti-immigrant, I just don't understand what having all these immigration laws on the books is all about if we're not going to enforce them, and every dozen years or whatever we pave the path to citizenship for everyone that successfully snuck in or whatever.

donkhater
05-10-2011, 09:46 AM
Just taking any opportunity to point out that Reagan should not be worshiped by conservatives as a great (or even a good) president.

I think he was a good president, but he was wrong on this issue. At the very minimum, that statement should have preceeded strict adherence to the law from that moment in time onward.

One statement of amensty from our president is one thing, but multiple statments from the White house (over time) is ignoring the law laid down by Congress. .

It's like the debt ceiling. If it is raised every single time we come to it, can you honsetly say there is a debt ceiling? If you grant amnesty continually to every illegal immigrant, what's the point of a border?

ClevelandBronco
05-10-2011, 09:51 AM
I think he was a good president, but he was wrong on this issue. At the very minimum, that statement should have preceeded strict adherence to the law from that moment in time onward.

One statement of amensty from our president is one thing, but multiple statments from the White house (over time) is ignoring the law laid down by Congress. .

It's like the debt ceiling. If it is raised every single time we come to it, can you honsetly say there is a debt ceiling? If you grant amnesty continually to every illegal immigrant, what's the point of a border?

Having spent several years living within sight of the border, I assure you that it serves very little real purpose other than to indicate to map makers where the green ink ends and the pink ink begins.

Cave Johnson
05-10-2011, 09:55 AM
I'd be fine with an amnesty or whatever as long as we had dramatic immigration reform and solid enforcement behind it. I'm not anti-immigrant, I just don't understand what having all these immigration laws on the books is all about if we're not going to enforce them, and every dozen years or whatever we pave the path to citizenship for everyone that successfully snuck in or whatever.

Unskilled immigration might have made sense at 5% unemployment, but not at 9%. And it exerts a downward pressure on wages. I'm all for legalizing immigrants that have been here forever, have families, etc., as long as it's coupled with stepped-up enforcement against employers.

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 10:04 AM
Only on CP does "comprehensive immigration reform" = Amnesty.

But you guys need something to bitch about, right?

mlyonsd
05-10-2011, 10:15 AM
I wonder what providing legal status to that many people does to Obamacare cost estimates.

ClevelandBronco
05-10-2011, 10:16 AM
Only on CP does "comprehensive immigration reform" = Amnesty.

But you guys need something to bitch about, right?

:LOL:

blaise
05-10-2011, 10:22 AM
I wonder what providing legal status to that many people does to Obamacare cost estimates.

"No health care for illegals. Congrats, you're legal!"

alpha_omega
05-10-2011, 10:28 AM
Whew....I sure feel better knowing that some Hollywood celebrities agree.

RedNeckRaider
05-10-2011, 10:31 AM
El Obama es mi amigo y me gusta Obama enormemente. Él tendrá cuidado de mis muchos amigos illegal~

Mr. Kotter
05-10-2011, 11:06 AM
The real POS in this country are folks on either side of the political aisle...who become so zealous in their devotion to their own ideology, that they can't even feign civility and respect for the office of the President and the verdict of the last election. It was despicable when the liberals did it under Bush; and it’s despicable when conservative do it under Obama.

Is it really any wonder why most Americans have tuned out political bullshit in favor or American Idol and reality television? :shake:

Mr. Kotter
05-10-2011, 11:08 AM
"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally" Ronald Reagan 1984.

Reagan granted amnesty for 3 million illegals in between negotiating with terrorists and running up record deficits.

http://media.npr.org/assets/news/2010/07/04/reagan.jpg?t=1279822556&s=2

Word....Mr. Ugly friggin'-Fader-fan Duck. ;)

blaise
05-10-2011, 11:10 AM
The real POS in this country are folks on either side of the political aisle...who become so zealous in their devotion to their own ideology, that they can't even feign civility and respect for the office of the President and the verdict of the last election. It was despicable when the liberals did it under Bush; and it’s despicable when conservative do it under Obama.

Is it really any wonder why most Americans have tuned out political bullshit in favor or American Idol and reality television? :shake:

Thank you for the editorial, you're quite the hero.

RedNeckRaider
05-10-2011, 11:25 AM
Thank you for the editorial, you're quite the hero.
Sr. Kotter es un mismo sabio. Usted debería escuchar a sus palabras. Todos bromeando aparte él tiene razón sobre esto ~

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 11:28 AM
The real POS in this country are folks on either side of the political aisle...who become so zealous in their devotion to their own ideology, that they can't even feign civility and respect for the office of the President and the verdict of the last election. It was despicable when the liberals did it under Bush; and it’s despicable when conservative do it under Obama.

Is it really any wonder why most Americans have tuned out political bullshit in favor or American Idol and reality television? :shake:

This has to be one of the greatest posts i've ever read in D.C. Ever.

ClevelandBronco
05-10-2011, 11:29 AM
If de Resident o' de Unided Snakes is going to act like a vagina, he needs to shave it all off.

ClevelandBronco
05-10-2011, 11:32 AM
This has to be one of the greatest posts i've ever read in D.C. Ever.

You're welcome.

Simplex3
05-10-2011, 12:42 PM
The real POS in this country are folks on either side of the political aisle...who become so zealous in their devotion to their own ideology, that they can't even feign civility and respect for the office of the President and the verdict of the last election. It was despicable when the liberals did it under Bush; and it’s despicable when conservative do it under Obama.

Is it really any wonder why most Americans have tuned out political bullshit in favor or American Idol and reality television? :shake:

The last election? You mean the one where the Dems got beaten like a drum?

Also, how civil is it for a person to sneak into another country against its laws, break its laws all day, every day, demand help from that country's social safety nets, steal free medical care, and not contribute back? Is that the civil thing to do?

As for tuning out politics it might have more to do with the fact that when you're one voice of 300 million you know damn well your voice isn't being heard.

BucEyedPea
05-10-2011, 12:44 PM
This has to be one of the greatest posts i've ever read in D.C. Ever.

Kotter accusing others of lack of civility? :hmmm: I don't think so.

Mr. Kotter
05-10-2011, 12:53 PM
The last election? You mean the one where the Dems got beaten like a drum?

Also, how civil is it for a person to sneak into another country against its laws, break its laws all day, every day, demand help from that country's social safety nets, steal free medical care, and not contribute back? Is that the civil thing to do?

...

Presidential elections are every four years; pay attention. ;)

As for sneaking into the country....what tea party-types and "real" conservatives fail to admit is, while they scream about illegal immigration, they are often the most passionate opponents of strict enforcement of laws and fines against businesses and corporations that hire illegals. Imagine that...not to mention your misrepresentation of the taxes they do pay (in many cases, which they never are "repaid" for.)

That, and "Hell, screw you liberal Yankees! If deporting person of Hispanic heritages means I gots to pay more for my produce, my roofing job, and my nanny...I might only be able to make it to 6 or 7 of the Cowboy games this year, dat burn it! Go to hell, ya'all damn carpet-bagging commies! Long live TEXAS!"

vailpass
05-10-2011, 01:00 PM
Presidential elections are every four years; pay attention. ;)

As for sneaking into the country....what tea party-types and "real" conservatives fail to admit is, while they scream about illegal immigration, they are often the most passionate opponents of strict enforcement of laws and fines against businesses and corporations that hire illegals. Imagine that...

That, and "Hell, screw you liberal Yankees! If deporting person of Hispanic heritages means I gots to pay more for my produce, my roofing job, and my nanny...I might only be able to make it to 6 or 7 of the Cowboy games this year, dat burn it! Go to hell, ya'all damn carpet-bagging commies! Long live TEXAS!"

I and all the good old boys club people I know are 100% in favor of strict enforcement of employers of illegals being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Also support closing the borders while we get our illegal problem under control by patrolling with military we bring back from Iraq.

mlyonsd
05-10-2011, 01:07 PM
As for sneaking into the country....what tea party-types and "real" conservatives fail to admit is, while they scream about illegal immigration, they are often the most passionate opponents of strict enforcement of laws and fines against businesses and corporations that hire illegals. Imagine that...not to mention your misrepresentation of the taxes they do pay (in many cases, which they never are "repaid" for.)


Name one.

RedNeckRaider
05-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Presidential elections are every four years; pay attention. ;)

As for sneaking into the country....what tea party-types and "real" conservatives fail to admit is, while they scream about illegal immigration, they are often the most passionate opponents of strict enforcement of laws and fines against businesses and corporations that hire illegals. Imagine that...not to mention your misrepresentation of the taxes they do pay (in many cases, which they never are "repaid" for.)

That, and "Hell, screw you liberal Yankees! If deporting person of Hispanic heritages means I gots to pay more for my produce, my roofing job, and my nanny...I might only be able to make it to 6 or 7 of the Cowboy games this year, dat burn it! Go to hell, ya'all damn carpet-bagging commies! Long live TEXAS!"

I wonder if we can hire them to teach :hmmm: The majority of teachers are liberal and I cannot see why they would mind our new friends working in their profession. It would be much cheaper! and as far as performance they couldn't be much worse ;)

blaise
05-10-2011, 01:10 PM
Name one.

Yeah, I don't recall that being a popular sentiment either. And despite living in Texas for several years I haven't heard anyone say the other stuff either.
Weird.

Otter
05-10-2011, 01:37 PM
Only on CP does "comprehensive immigration reform" = Amnesty.

But you guys need something to bitch about, right?

Have you looked at the Dream Act? After you break into the country all you have to do then for residency is a GED (yes, a GED) on the government dime probably administered in Spanish. What is that if it's not amnesty and opening up the floodgates for more illegals?

And lets do all this without changing a damn thing as far as enforcement, E-Verify and border security.

Yeah, nothing to be sour about on this one.

ROYC75
05-10-2011, 01:47 PM
Just taking any opportunity to point out that Reagan should not be worshiped by conservatives as a great (or even a good) president.

Name one that is from the opposition's point of view ?

ROYC75
05-10-2011, 01:50 PM
I wonder what providing legal status to that many people does to Obamacare cost estimates.

( Liberals response ) Makes it go down due to the influx of people with insurance and more people paying taxes.:thumb:

RedNeckRaider
05-10-2011, 01:54 PM
Have you looked at the Dream Act? After you break into the country all you have to do then for residency is a GED (yes, a GED) on the government dime probably administered in Spanish. What is that if it's not amnesty and opening up the floodgates for more illegals?

And lets do all this without changing a damn thing as far as enforcement, E-Verify and border security.

Yeah, nothing to be sour about on this one.

It amazes me that so many see this as no big deal~

alnorth
05-10-2011, 02:08 PM
Only on CP does "comprehensive immigration reform" = Amnesty.

But you guys need something to bitch about, right?

You don't get out much, do you.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform = amnesty EVERYWHERE, even in casual conversation between people who don't follow politics.

alnorth
05-10-2011, 02:14 PM
Presidential elections are every four years; pay attention. ;)

Don't be silly. He had to say the right things to the right people to get nominated, but if amnesty was Obama's biggest campaign issue, he may not have won.

When a president is elected, that sure as hell does not mean he has a mandate for everything he wants, and for you to suggest that ideological opposition is out of bounds is just silly. I'm not talking birther nonsense or hatred, but this is a serious issue.

When you are elected, it means that the people have said "on balance, we generally agree with you more than the other guy, but we reserve the right to reject some of your ideas, up to and including supporting the opposition party if you go too far."

Obama may win in 2012 by default due to a pathetic field of candidates, but the dems may as well forfeit the senate if they run on amnesty.

Mr. Kotter
05-10-2011, 03:44 PM
Don't be silly. He had to say the right things to the right people to get nominated, but if amnesty was Obama's biggest campaign issue, he may not have won.

When a president is elected, that sure as hell does not mean he has a mandate for everything he wants, and for you to suggest that ideological opposition is out of bounds is just silly. I'm not talking birther nonsense or hatred, but this is a serious issue.

When you are elected, it means that the people have said "on balance, we generally agree with you more than the other guy, but we reserve the right to reject some of your ideas, up to and including supporting the opposition party if you go too far."

Obama may win in 2012 by default due to a pathetic field of candidates, but the dems may as well forfeit the senate if they run on amnesty.

I was talking about HonestChieffan's (and like-minded reactionary ideologues) referring to our current President as a POS...regardless of specific policy disagreements.

As for the rest of your post, I pretty much agree.

Mr. Kotter
05-10-2011, 03:46 PM
I wonder if we can hire them to teach :hmmm: The majority of teachers are liberal and I cannot see why they would mind our new friends working in their profession. It would be much cheaper! and as far as performance they couldn't be much worse ;)

Person of Hispanic heritages with the proper credentials and documentation would be welcomed, asaics.

Next deflection? :shrug:

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 03:48 PM
Have you looked at the Dream Act? After you break into the country all you have to do then for residency is a GED (yes, a GED) on the government dime probably administered in Spanish. What is that if it's not amnesty and opening up the floodgates for more illegals?

And lets do all this without changing a damn thing as far as enforcement, E-Verify and border security.

Yeah, nothing to be sour about on this one.

Have YOU read the dream act? Judging by your post, clearly not.

vailpass
05-10-2011, 03:58 PM
Have YOU read the dream act? Judging by your post, clearly not.

Stop being disingenuous.

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 04:07 PM
Stop being disingenuous.

How am I being disingenuous? Based on that post, Otter either has never read the Dream Act or is deciding to leave out KEY qualifications regarding the Dream Act.

I said nothing wrong.

And the Dream Act affects so few of these Illegals, i'm not even sure why it was brought up.

vailpass
05-10-2011, 04:14 PM
How am I being disingenuous? Based on that post, Otter either has never read the Dream Act or is deciding to leave out KEY qualifications regarding the Dream Act.

I said nothing wrong.

And the Dream Act affects so few of these Illegals, i'm not even sure why it was brought up.

Fair enough. Dream Act arguement is so tired I'm going to leave it alone unless/until they ever try to ressurrect that horrible piece of injustice and expense.

Otter
05-10-2011, 04:36 PM
How am I being disingenuous? Based on that post, Otter either has never read the Dream Act or is deciding to leave out KEY qualifications regarding the Dream Act.

I said nothing wrong.

And the Dream Act affects so few of these Illegals, i'm not even sure why it was brought up.

I have read it. I left out the part about residency requirements for 5 years because it's a feel good ****ing lie. How do you prove or disprove someone whose here illegally where they lived for 5 years? That may work fine and dandy for anyone whose been at the same school for 5 years but what about the people who qualify with a GED that never filled out a tax form and claim they lived in a cousins attic for the last 10 years?

Staying out of trouble! It says you need to stay out of trouble but offers no clear cut consequences of getting in trouble with the law. More feel good bullshit.

Did I miss anything else?

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 04:40 PM
I have read it. I left out the part about residency requirements for 5 years because it's a feel good ****ing lie. How do you prove or disprove someone whose here illegally where they lived for 5 years? That may work fine and dandy for anyone whose been at the same school for 5 years but what about the people who go get a GED that never filled out a tax form and claim they lived in a cousins attic for the last 10 years?

Staying out of trouble! It says you need to stay out of trouble but offers no clear cut consequences of getting in trouble with the law. More feel good bullshit.

Did I miss anything else?

Oh i dont know, Maybe the college or Military service part, or the part about having to have been here before 16 years of age...oh and maybe the part about having to have been here 5 years before the inactment of the bill.

That's kinda a lot, ya know?

Not just "jump across the border, get a GED in SPANISH and your in" bs you wrote.

Oh, and if you REALLY read it, it defines what staying out of trouble actually means.

vailpass
05-10-2011, 04:42 PM
Oh i dont know, Maybe the college or Military service part, or the part about having to have been here before 16 years of age...oh and maybe the part about having to have been here 5 years before the inactment of the bill.

That's kinda a lot, ya know?

Not just "jump across the border, get a GED in SPANISH and your in" bs you wrote.

Have you seen the estimates for the cost of the Dream Act?
Do you agree that illegal aliens should be afforded in-state tuition rates?

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 04:57 PM
Have you seen the estimates for the cost of the Dream Act?
Do you agree that illegal aliens should be afforded in-state tuition rates?

As long as they're paying tuition, I don't see why it should matter.

The Dream Act requires exactly what we want from our citizens. Only a select group of illegals are even eligible. We're not talking about Juan the Gardener, which is who America thinks of when we talk about Illegals. We're talking about a minority of Illegals. Illegals that didn't even have the choice to be here or not.

And the Act requires them to jump through every fucking hoop to appease you people, yet it's still not good enough.

We don't even force our own kids to go to college or serve in the military, yet that's required by the Dream Act. This act forces them to prove that they are here to be an American. An educated, english speaking American. Which is what so many anti-immigrants gripe about. Well, here's an act to fix that problem. But to you, it's still not good enough.

If it doesn't require them going back to Mexico and getting the fuck out, it ain't good enough.

The only thing this act is missing, is a requirement to go back to Mexico. And for some of these kids, they don't even know what it's like to live in Mexico. Mexico is a foreign country to them. They wouldn't survive out there.

But that doesn't matter to a lot of you, does it?

It's only about Right wing vs Left wing.

It's not about finding solutions to a problem and negotiating with each other. It's about spinning shit to suit your agenda (ahem, Otter) and bickering with each other.

Anyway, I didn't post in this thread to argue about the Dream Act. I didn't even bring it up.

I posted in this thread to laugh at more propaganda BS that you guys post.

Reform = Amnesty. Hilarious. Keep spinning it instead of finding a solution.

Rant over.

Otter
05-10-2011, 05:19 PM
Oh i dont know, Maybe the college or Military service part, or the part about having to have been here before 16 years of age...oh and maybe the part about having to have been here 5 years before the inactment of the bill.

That's kinda a lot, ya know?

Not just "jump across the border, get a GED in SPANISH and your in" bs you wrote.

Oh, and if you REALLY read it, it defines what staying out of trouble actually means.


I'm referring to qualifying for residency, the stuff that allows you to legally stay in the states before they do any college, military or GED.

Again, how do you verify an illegal alien has been here for five years before the age of 16? In 90% of the cases you won't be able to. It's a feel good bullshit clause. Are there people that will legally qualify? Sure. There's also going to be a butt load of people lying about there qualifications with no way to prove or disprove their claim.

That's kinda a lot, ya know?

Otter
05-10-2011, 05:23 PM
It's not about finding solutions to a problem and negotiating with each other. It's about spinning shit to suit your agenda (ahem, Otter) and bickering with each other.

Anyway, I didn't post in this thread to argue about the Dream Act. I didn't even bring it up.

I posted in this thread to laugh at more propaganda BS that you guys post.

Reform = Amnesty. Hilarious. Keep spinning it instead of finding a solution.

Rant over.

Here's a solution - get in line and follow the rules and don't expect you or your kids to be rewarded for breaking into a country. Kids of American's whose parents break the law from everything from DUI to dealing drugs to too many parking tickets suffer everyday when they have to pay for their crime but illegals should someone be above this in the twisted ****ing logic.

We tried an amnesty and look what it got us. Why is this one going to do anything but provide incentive for more illegals to bring their kids for the next amnesty?

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 05:35 PM
Here's a solution - get in line and follow the rules and don't expect you or your kids to be rewarded for breaking into a country. Kids of American's whose parents break the law from everything from DUI to dealing drugs to too many parking tickets suffer everyday when they have to pay for their crime but illegals should someone be above this in the twisted ****ing logic.

We tried an amnesty and look what it got us. Why is this one going to do anything but provide incentive for more illegals to bring their kids for the next amnesty?

That's a terrible comparison. Just awful. It's not even remotely close to the same thing.
If a parent murders someone, does the child go to jail? Stupid comparison.

And once again, forcing a small, select group to prove they are worthy, outstanding citizens is not amnesty.

Otter, we can dance circles all day.

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 05:38 PM
I'm referring to qualifying for residency, the stuff that allows you to legally stay in the states before they do any college, military or GED.

Again, how do you verify an illegal alien has been here for five years before the age of 16? In 90% of the cases you won't be able to. It's a feel good bullshit clause. Are there people that will legally qualify? Sure. There's also going to be a butt load of people lying about there qualifications with no way to prove or disprove their claim.

That's kinda a lot, ya know?

If they can't prove it then they don't qualify. So by your logic, only 10% that are even eligible for this program will even be prepared to complete it. And of those 10%, how many will actually complete the program? 8% maybe?

So by your logic, this act would affect, what, .01% of our illegal immigrant population?

Yeah, i could see how that's a problem.

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 05:45 PM
Here's a solution - get in line and follow the rules and don't expect you or your kids to be rewarded for breaking into a country.

This one sentence here tells me all I need to know about how you think.

You're still worried about the parents. You're still wrapped up in what they did. You are not thinking about the children who have grown up here all their lives and aren't given a chance to succeed.

They're forced to be a failure because people like you can't get over what their parents did. It's not about the parents.

This act is not about the parents. It's about the kids who have been here since they were 2-3 years old and know nothing but what it is to be an American. They don't know what it is to be from Mexico.

Stop lumping them together.

It's not the same.

vailpass
05-10-2011, 05:51 PM
This one sentence here tells me all I need to know about how you think.

You're still worried about the parents. You're still wrapped up in what they did. You are not thinking about the children who have grown up here all their lives and aren't given a chance to succeed.

They're forced to be a failure because people like you can't get over what their parents did. It's not about the parents.

This act is not about the parents. It's about the kids who have been here since they were 2-3 years old and know nothing but what it is to be an American. They don't know what it is to be from Mexico.

Stop lumping them together.

It's not the same.

The kids and the parents are a package deal. Rewarding the kids is rewarding and justifying the illegal acts of the parents and encouraging future repeat offenders.

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 05:57 PM
The kids and the parents are a package deal. Rewarding the kids is rewarding and justifying the illegal acts of the parents and encouraging future repeat offenders.

How is it encouraging repeat offenders?

You would've had to have been here at least 5 years before the act passed. I'm pretty sure that does not encourage repeat offenders.

And in America, we don't treat people "as a Package Deal". If we do, we had better get to arresting all the children of criminals. Holy shit, we're gonna need a whole new prison system for that.....

Kids and parents are not a packaged deal. They're not the same ****ing person. In America, we treat them as individuals and handle each person on a case by case basis.

Otter
05-10-2011, 06:26 PM
This one sentence here tells me all I need to know about how you think.

You're still worried about the parents. You're still wrapped up in what they did. You are not thinking about the children who have grown up here all their lives and aren't given a chance to succeed.

They're forced to be a failure because people like you can't get over what their parents did. It's not about the parents.

This act is not about the parents. It's about the kids who have been here since they were 2-3 years old and know nothing but what it is to be an American. They don't know what it is to be from Mexico.

Stop lumping them together.

It's not the same.

I'll stop the circle dancing as well because their highly subjective but if politicians want to get the dream act passed let's compromise just like you said. We've heard the promises before back in 1986 when Reagan passed amnesty.

How about in the same bill under the same signature put items in there to seal the border, deport illegal criminals instead of just letting them back into society, force companies to use e-verify, end birthright citizenship and so on and so forth.

This bill does nothing for the next step and as mentioned we've been sold this piece of bad apple pie before. I'm not against reform but this reform is one sided in favor of the people who broke the laws.

I'm checking out for the night as well.

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 06:30 PM
How about in the same bill under the same signature put items in there to seal the border, deport illegal criminals instead of just letting them back into society, force companies to use e-verify, end birthright citizenship and so on and so forth.



Hey, I'm with you. Sounds like a plan to me. That's what we all hope "Reform" actually means. I think it's the best possible compromise. I'm not sure why that's such a difficult solution to come to.

But hey, i guess that's why i'm not into politics.

Simplex3
05-10-2011, 06:32 PM
Presidential elections are every four years; pay attention. ;)

Oh, so it's the people who won the last election that favored the people you like.

Otter
05-10-2011, 06:37 PM
Not quiet as cut & dry as you're making it out to be...

http://www.cfif.org/v/index.php/commentary/58-immigration/821-ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-s3827-the-dream-act

Ten Things You Need To Know About S.3827, The DREAM Act

1. The DREAM Act Is NOT Limited to Children, And It Will Be Funded On the Backs Of Hard Working, Law-Abiding Americans

Proponents of the DREAM Act frequently claim the bill offers relief only to illegal alien “kids.” Incredibly, previous versions of the DREAM Act had no age limit at all, so illegal aliens of any age who satisfied the Act’s requirements—not just children—could obtain lawful permanent resident (LPR) status. In response to this criticism, S.3827 includes a requirement that aliens be under the age of 35 on the date of enactment to be eligible for LPR status. Even with this cap, many aliens would be at least 41 years old before obtaining full LPR status under the Act—hardly the “kids” the Act’s advocates keep talking about.

The DREAM Act requires that DHS/USCIS process all DREAM Act applications (applications that would require complex, multi-step adjudication) without being able to increase fees to handle processing. This mandate would require either additional Congressional appropriations, or for USCIS, a primarily fee-funded agency, to raise fees on other types of immigration benefit applications. This would unfairly spread the cost of administering the DREAM Act legalization program among applicants and petitioners who have abided by U.S. laws and force taxpayers to pay for amnesty. Taxpayers would also be on the hook for all Federal benefits the DREAM Act seeks to offer illegal aliens, including student loans and grants.

2. The DREAM Act PROVIDES SAFE HARBOR FOR ANY ALIEN, Including Criminals, From Being Removed or Deported If They Simply Submit An Application

Although DREAM Act proponents claim it will benefit only those who meet certain age, presence, and educational requirements, amazingly the Act protects ANY alien who simply submits an application for status no matter how frivolous. The bill forbids the Secretary of Homeland Security from removing “any alien who has a pending application for conditional status” under the DREAM Act—regardless of age or criminal record—providing a safe harbor for all illegal aliens. This loophole will open the floodgates for applications that could stay pending for many years or be litigated as a delay tactic to prevent the illegal aliens’ removal from the United States. The provision will further erode any chances of ending the rampant illegality and fraud in the existing system.

3. Certain Criminal Aliens Will Be Eligible For Amnesty Under The DREAM Act

Certain categories of criminal aliens will be eligible for the DREAM Act amnesty, including alien gang members and aliens with misdemeanor convictions, even DUIs. The DREAM Act allows illegal aliens guilty of the following offenses to be eligible for amnesty: alien absconders (aliens who failed to attend their removal proceedings), aliens who have engaged in voter fraud or unlawfully voted, aliens who have falsely claimed U.S. citizenship, aliens who have abused their student visas, and aliens who have committed marriage fraud. Additionally, illegal aliens who pose a public health risk, aliens who have been permanently barred from obtaining U.S. citizenship, and aliens who are likely to become a public charge are also eligible.

4. Estimates Suggest That At Least 2.1 Million Illegal Aliens Will Be Eligible For the DREAM Act Amnesty. In Reality, We Have No Idea How Many Illegal Aliens Will Apply

Section 4(d) of the DREAM Act waives all numerical limitations on green cards, and prohibits any numerical limitation on the number of aliens eligible for amnesty under its provisions. The Migration Policy Institute estimates that the DREAM Act will make approximately 2.1 million illegal aliens eligible for amnesty. It is highly likely that the number of illegal aliens receiving amnesty under the DREAM Act will be much higher than the estimated 2.1 million due to fraud and our inherent inability to accurately estimate the illegal alien population. Clearly, the message sent by the DREAM Act will be that if any young person can enter the country illegally, within 5 years, they will be placed on a path to citizenship.

5. Illegal Aliens Will Get In-State Tuition Benefits

The DREAM Act will allow illegal aliens to qualify for in-state tuition, even when it is not being offered to U.S. citizens and legally present aliens living just across state lines. Section 3 of the DREAM Act repeals Section 505 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1623) which prohibits giving education benefits to an unlawfully present individual unless that same benefit is offered to all U.S. citizens.

6. The DREAM Act Does Not Require That An Illegal Alien Finish Any Type of Degree (Vocational, Two-Year, or Bachelor’s Degree) As A Condition of Amnesty

DREAM Act supporters would have you believe that the bill is intended to benefit illegal immigrants who have graduated from high school and are on their way to earning college degrees. However, the bill is careful to ensure that illegal alien high school drop-outs will also be put on a pathway to citizenship – they simply have to get a GED and be admitted to “an institution of higher education,” defined by the Higher Education Act of 1965.

Under the Higher Education Act, an “institution of higher education” includes institutions that provide 2-year programs (community colleges) and any “school that provides not less than a 1-year program of training to prepare students for gainful employment” (a vocational school). Within 8 years of the initial grant of status, the alien must prove only that they finished 2 years of a bachelor’s degree program, not that they completed any program or earned any degree.

If the alien is unable to complete 2 years of college but can demonstrate that their removal would result in hardship to themselves or their U.S. citizen or LPR spouse, child, or parent, the education requirement can be waived altogether.

7. The DREAM Act does not require that an illegal alien serve in the military as a condition for amnesty, and There is ALREADY A Legal Process In Place For Illegal Aliens to Obtain U.S. Citizenship Through Military Service

DREAM Act supporters would have you believe that illegal aliens who don’t go to college will earn their citizenship through service in the U.S. Armed Forces. However, the bill does not require aliens to join the U.S. Armed Forces (the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard); instead it requires enlistment in the “uniformed services.” This means that aliens need only go to work for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or Public Health Service for 2 years to get U.S. citizenship. If the alien is unable to complete 2 years in the “uniformed services,” and can demonstrate that their removal would result in hardship to themselves or their U.S. citizen or LPR spouse, child, or parent, the military service requirement can be waived altogether. Such claims will likely engender much litigation and place a huge burden on DHS.

Furthermore, under current law (10 USC § 504), the Secretary of Defense can authorize the enlistment of illegal aliens. Once enlisted in the U.S. Armed Forces, under 8 USC § 1440, these illegal aliens can become naturalized citizens through expedited processing, often obtaining U.S. citizenship in six months.

8. Despite Their Current Illegal Status, DREAM Act Aliens Will Be Given All The Rights That Legal Immigrants Receive—Including The Legal Right To Sponsor Their Parents and Extended Family Members For Immigration

Under current federal law, U.S. citizens have the right to immigrate their “immediate relatives” to the U.S. without regard to numerical caps. Similarly, lawful permanent residents can immigrate their spouses and children to the U.S. as long as they retain their status. This means illegal aliens who receive amnesty under the DREAM Act will have the right to immigrate their family members—including the parents who sent for or brought them to the U.S. illegally in the first place—in unlimited numbers as soon as they become U.S. citizens (6 to 8 years after enactment) and are 21 years of age.

Additionally, amnestied aliens who become U.S. citizens will be able to petition for their adult siblings living abroad to immigrate to the U.S., further incentivizing chain migration and potentially illegal entry into the United States (for those who don’t want to wait for the petition process overseas). When an adult brother or sister receives a green card, the family (spouse and children) of the adult sibling receive green cards as well.

9. Current Illegal Aliens Will Get Federal Student Loans, Federal Work Study Programs, and Other Forms of Federal Financial Aid

Section 10 of the DREAM Act allows illegal aliens amnestied under the bill’s provisions to qualify for federal student assistance under Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1001 et seq.) in the form of federal student loans (Stafford Loans, Perkins Loans, Federal Direct Stafford/Ford Loans), federal work-study programs, and other federal education services such as tutoring and counseling.

10. DHS Is Prohibited From Using the Information Provided By Illegal Aliens Whose DREAM Act Amnesty Applications Are Denied To Initiate Their Removal Proceedings or Investigate or Prosecute Fraud in the Application Process

When an illegal alien’s DREAM Act amnesty application is denied, the bill states that the alien will revert to their “previous immigration status,” which is likely illegal or deportable. The bill, however, prohibits using any of the information contained in the amnesty application (name, address, length of illegal presence that the alien admits to, etc) to initiate a removal proceeding or investigate or prosecute fraud in the application process. Thus, it will be extremely hard for DHS to remove aliens who they now know are illegally present in the U.S., because illegal aliens will be able to claim that the legal action is a product of the amnesty application, and DHS will have the nearly impossible task of proving a negative.

Simplex3
05-10-2011, 06:38 PM
It's not about finding solutions to a problem and negotiating with each other

So if I break into your house can we negotiate over which room is mine?

Simplex3
05-10-2011, 06:40 PM
Again, how do you verify an illegal alien has been here for five years before the age of 16? In 90% of the cases you won't be able to. It's a feel good bullshit clause. Are there people that will legally qualify? Sure. There's also going to be a butt load of people lying about there qualifications with no way to prove or disprove their claim.

That's kinda a lot, ya know?

There's no way these people who came into the country illegally, worked illegally, and used government services illegally would lie about how long they've been here.

Simplex3
05-10-2011, 06:42 PM
How is it encouraging repeat offenders?

You would've had to have been here at least 5 years before the act passed.

A lesson they learned all too well the first time we passed an amnesty bill. There will be another one.

stevieray
05-11-2011, 07:13 AM
This one sentence here tells me all I need to know about how you think.

You're still worried about the parents. You're still wrapped up in what they did. You are not thinking about the children who have grown up here all their lives and aren't given a chance to succeed.

They're forced to be a failure because people like you can't get over what their parents did. It's not about the parents.

This act is not about the parents. It's about the kids who have been here since they were 2-3 years old and know nothing but what it is to be an American. They don't know what it is to be from Mexico.

Stop lumping them together.

It's not the same.

grown up here....illegally.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 08:44 AM
You liberals like to look the other way when it's convenience. Illegal is, illegal.

We understand that 11 million new voters hang in the balance for your Prez, but crap, when does the bleeding stop ? How much longer do Americans have to support most of these 11 million people? Big government can't get smaller by taking on Mexico as the unofficial 51st state.

If they really want to be here, ship them all back and let them come across the right way, legally, do as any other immigrant that is here legally does. Earn It!

thecoffeeguy
05-11-2011, 09:13 AM
Anyone who breaks our countries laws does not deserve anything like the Dream act or amnesty.
Rewarding people who break our laws is horse shit.