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HonestChieffan
05-10-2011, 06:05 PM
The leftist march continues. How did this POS get elected?


http://sunshinestatenews.com/story/barack-obama-ready-roll-out-new-amnesty-carpet-illegals
(Sunshine State News) — Amnesty or bust. Though not using those words, that’s expected to be the message President Barack Obama will deliver in the border town of El Paso, Texas, on Tuesday.

Obama, according to unofficial reports, will argue that his administration has tightened America’s borders and stepped up deportations, and that it is time for Congress to enact a “path to citizenship” for at least some of the estimated 11 million illegal aliens in this country.

Wary congressional Republicans and even a few Democrats say that “path to citizenship” means “amnesty,” and they’re not willing to go down that road again. Previous amnesty programs, which effectively rewarded lawbreakers, simply enticed more illegals to enter the country.

Obama, eager to make good on campaign promises from 2008 and bolster his Hispanic base for 2012, says the time is ripe for immigration reform. The administration reports that it deported a record 392,000 immigrants, and has put more “boots on the ground” along America’s southern border.

Workplace raids have stepped up, too, and more businesses are using the federal E-Verify program to screen new hires.

As for the illegals who remain, reformers argue that it is unrealistic to expect the government to deport some 11 million people.

But the experience in Arizona suggests that self-deportation occurs when and where immigration laws are toughened.

Liar In Chief just gets better......

EL PASO, Texas (AP) — President Barack Obama says his administration has answered the concerns of Republican lawmakers who want the U.S.-Mexico border better secured before they are willing to take on comprehensive immigration reform.

Standing at the border Tuesday, Obama mocked Republicans for never being satisfied and always changing the conditions about what’s needed to secure the border.

Said the president: “Maybe they’ll say we need a moat. Or alligators in the moat.”

Obama says that stepped-up enforcement is getting results.

Obama used his speech in El Paso, Texas, to push Congress to work with him on a plan to give millions of illegal residents a path to citizenship.

donkhater
05-10-2011, 06:12 PM
Do illegals realize that the overwhelming reason they have employment in the US is because they aren't subject to Federal minimum wage laws? Do they realize that will change when they gain citizenship?

vailpass
05-10-2011, 06:13 PM
obama in full 2012 campaign mode here. Win or lose the hispanics can't say he isn't their advocate or that he doesn't want illegals here.

vailpass
05-10-2011, 06:15 PM
"Said the president: “Maybe they’ll say we need a moat. Or alligators in the moat.”

obama is one uppity son of a bitch.

HonestChieffan
05-10-2011, 06:21 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/13-killed-in-lake-gunbattle-between-marines-and-drug-gang-camp-in-northern-Mexico/articleshow/8212939.cms

Some info on the border area...from the Times of Freaking India. Our media wouldnt cover this with Obama on a major MexiSuck trip to garner some votes.

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 06:32 PM
"Said the president: “Maybe they’ll say we need a moat. Or alligators in the moat.”

obama is one uppity son of a bitch.

C'mon.

Hate him or love him, that's actually pretty damn funny.

HonestChieffan
05-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Well, President f###stick, the issue may be that double and triple agents has not stopped the invasion? What you have done hasnt done squat asswipe, so get to work and do more, dont grant every damn sneaker citizenship.

HonestChieffan
05-10-2011, 06:43 PM
More from Liar in Chief


Obama said today in El Paso…”They wanted more agents on the border. Well, we now have more boots on the ground on the southwest border than at any time in our history. The Border Patrol has 20,000 agents – more than twice as many as there were in 2004, a build up that began under President Bush and that we have continued. They wanted a fence. Well, that fence is now basically complete.”

Five years ago, legislation was passed to build a 700-mile double-layer border fence along the southwest border. This is a promise that has not been kept.

Today, according to staff at the Department of Homeland Security, just 5 percent of the double-layer fencing is complete, only 36.3 miles.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO), Congress’s investigative arm, reported in early 2009 that only 32 miles of double-layer fencing had been built. That means under President Obama, only 4.3 miles of double layer fencing has been built. This is woefully inadequate.

vailpass
05-10-2011, 06:48 PM
C'mon.

Hate him or love him, that's actually pretty damn funny.

Hearing the person who is supposed to be in charge of securing our borders make jokes instead is hardly amusing.

Detoxing
05-10-2011, 06:52 PM
Hearing the person who is supposed to be in charge of securing our borders make jokes instead is hardly amusing.

Ah...c'mon, yeah it is.

If this was posted in the Lounge, you woulda laughed.

You just got your D.C Poker face on.

C'mon, laugh, It's cool. I won't tell anyone.

vailpass
05-10-2011, 06:53 PM
Ah...c'mon, yeah it is.

If this was posted in the Lounge, you woulda laughed.

You just got your D.C Poker face on.

C'mon, laugh, It's cool. I won't tell anyone.

Nothing obama does makes me smile.
However now thaqt you mention it I would like to play some poker. think I'll make a couple calls.Thanks for the idea.
Cheers.

mlyonsd
05-10-2011, 07:08 PM
Ah...c'mon, yeah it is.

If this was posted in the Lounge, you woulda laughed.

You just got your D.C Poker face on.

C'mon, laugh, It's cool. I won't tell anyone.
Not really when you take the entire statement in context. He lied by saying they've done all the republicans asked for since only 44% of the southern border is protected.

I guess you'll take the funny images he put into your mind over what he really said.

That's how he got elected in the first place.

BucEyedPea
05-10-2011, 07:26 PM
obama in full 2012 campaign mode here. Win or lose the hispanics can't say he isn't their advocate or that he doesn't want illegals here.

I think this will cost him with many more who are not Hispanic. It could have a reverse effect too. Still he is doing everything to try to win including that EO on making those wanting Federal contracts reveal who they donate too.

dirk digler
05-10-2011, 08:16 PM
I was never in favor of granting amnesty but the longer this goes on I think it is inevitable. It is impossible to find and deport 12 million illegals so if we secure the border, get a national ID card, and fine business hundreds of thousands of dollars\illegal alien they hired I could live with it.

mlyonsd
05-10-2011, 08:25 PM
I was never in favor of granting amnesty but the longer this goes on I think it is inevitable. It is impossible to find and deport 12 million illegals so if we secure the border, get a national ID card, and fine business hundreds of thousands of dollars\illegal alien they hired I could live with it.I was too until Obamacare passed. Amnesty blows that out of the water.

I do think you're right in that we need to stop the bleeding now. Then see where we are with the ones that are here.

Simplex3
05-10-2011, 08:28 PM
...if we secure the border, get a national ID card, and fine business hundreds of thousands of dollars\illegal alien they hire...

You can do that and never give amnesty. The illegals will deport themselves when the money dries up.

dirk digler
05-10-2011, 08:38 PM
I was too until Obamacare passed. Amnesty blows that out of the water.

I do think you're right in that we need to stop the bleeding now. Then see where we are with the ones that are here.

One argument you could make is that if we give amnesty we will have 12 million more taxpayers and that we are already paying their medical expenses anyway. :shrug:

You can do that and never give amnesty. The illegals will deport themselves when the money dries up.

That is certainly a possibility of course tonight on O'Reilly he said still 1.5-2 million illegals are coming over every year so the job conditions here really hasn't slowed them down all that much.

mlyonsd
05-10-2011, 08:48 PM
One argument you could make is that if we give amnesty we will have 12 million more taxpayers and that we are already paying their medical expenses anyway. :shrug: 12 million illegals are working here?

How many of those illegals will be paying taxes due to our antiquated stupid progressive tax system?

Donger
05-10-2011, 09:31 PM
A true smack in the face of all legal immigrants. I should have just waited and changed my name to Pedro.

CoMoChief
05-10-2011, 10:33 PM
[B]One argument you could make is that if we give amnesty we will have 12 million more taxpayers.

i hope to god you're kidding about this.

KC native
05-11-2011, 12:54 AM
At least, we're looking at realistic steps to deal with illegal immigration.

Oh, and told you assholes that something like this would come along.

RedNeckRaider
05-11-2011, 06:00 AM
¡Gracias Obama! traeremos el resto de nuestras familias y convertiremos este país en el mismo agujero de la mierda que extraemos de~

donkhater
05-11-2011, 08:22 AM
At least, we're looking at realistic steps to deal with illegal immigration.

Oh, and told you assholes that something like this would come along.

Really?

If you actually think this is anything more than a campaign speech so he can demagouge the Republicans and maintain the percentage of Hispanic vote he got in the last election, then not only are you being duped, but you deserve it.

He had a near filibuster proof congress for 2 years and completely ignored this topic. Now, when there is little chance that any "realistic steps to deal with illegal immigration" can be made, he brings up the topic. Convenient.

donkhater
05-11-2011, 08:27 AM
Look at Obama's "record". What has he actually led on? I think he even kept an arm's length on crafting the healthcare bill so that if it went south he could blame Pelosi and Reid. When there is little chance anything of merit will pass, he is extremely partisan, because he has nothing to lose. And when there is a chance for compromise (like on the budget) his is virtually AWOL.

His Senate record practically screams that this is how he operates. It's no surprise to me.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 09:35 AM
Look at Obama's "record". What has he actually led on? I think he even kept an arm's length on crafting the healthcare bill so that if it went south he could blame Pelosi and Reid. When there is little chance anything of merit will pass, he is extremely partisan, because he has nothing to lose. And when there is a chance for compromise (like on the budget) his is virtually AWOL.

His Senate record practically screams that this is how he operates. It's no surprise to me.

Basically, you have nailed him to a T. He does not lead, he barks out how he feels and let's the minons do the rest.

Now, who will be the first to bring up his leadership on the Seals usage of the pirates & OBL ?

That's great leadership there, any POTUS, could / should do that!

RedNeckRaider
05-11-2011, 09:37 AM
Really?

If you actually think this is anything more than a campaign speech so he can demagouge the Republicans and maintain the percentage of Hispanic vote he got in the last election, then not only are you being duped, but you deserve it.

He had a near filibuster proof congress for 2 years and completely ignored this topic. Now, when there is little chance that any "realistic steps to deal with illegal immigration" can be made, he brings up the topic. Convenient.

RedNeckRaider endorses this message~

dirk digler
05-11-2011, 09:43 AM
12 million illegals are working here?

How many of those illegals will be paying taxes due to our antiquated stupid progressive tax system?

Best estimates put it around 7-10 million undocumented workers

The ones that work at legitimate business pay at least payroll taxes

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 09:45 AM
You liberals like to look the other way when it's convenience. Illegal is, illegal.

We understand that 11 million new voters hang in the balance for your Prez, but crap, when does the bleeding stop ? How much longer do Americans have to support most of these 11 million people? Big government can't get smaller by taking on Mexico as the unofficial 51st state.

If they really want to be here, ship them all back and let them come across the right way, legally, do as any other immigrant that is here legally does. Earn It!

dirk digler
05-11-2011, 09:55 AM
You liberals like to look the other way when it's convenience. Illegal is, illegal.

We understand that 11 million new voters hang in the balance for your Prez, but crap, when does the bleeding stop ? How much longer do Americans have to support most of these 11 million people? Big government can't get smaller by taking on Mexico as the unofficial 51st state.

If they really want to be here, ship them all back and let them come across the right way, legally, do as any other immigrant that is here legally does. Earn It!

Alright genius tell us how you would round up and deport 12 million illegals.

Also since we are broke how are you going to pay for this?

Simplex3
05-11-2011, 10:01 AM
Alright genius tell us how you would round up and deport 12 million illegals.

Also since we are broke how are you going to pay for this?

Make it a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for every illegal you hire. Not for the illegal, for the person that hired them. Or make it a $100k per illegal per month fine. The only defense against that would be if you ran the person through e-Verify and it came back clean. If the risk were to outweigh the reward people would stop hiring illegals. If people stopped hiring them they'd leave all by themselves.

Otter
05-11-2011, 10:03 AM
Alright genius tell us how you would round up and deport 12 million illegals.

Also since we are broke how are you going to pay for this?

How does Disney World get rid of 50,000 people without rounding them up one by one? They turn off the lights, stop the rides and there's no reason for them to be there anymore.

- stop educating their kids for free
- stop paying for their hospital bills
- end birthright citizenship
- enforce the immigration laws by deporting everyone who broke them making them ineligible for citizenship ever again
- e-verify
- start a couple 30k a year positions in border states to verify welfare, food stamp and other social net programs eligibility

Most will leave on their own and will stop the HUGE incentives to cross illegally to put a BIG dent in stopping the bleeding.

Now, I know you're probably not going to agree with any of that but please stop acting like we need a giant net and huge overhead to "round them up and ship them back". That's not how they got here and not how they'll get back.

dirk digler
05-11-2011, 10:14 AM
I am not disagreeing with most of either of your suggestions but that is not what Roy said. He said round them up and ship them back. I am just curious how he would accomplish that.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 10:22 AM
Alright genius tell us how you would round up and deport 12 million illegals.

Also since we are broke how are you going to pay for this?

They found their way here, right. Find your way back home! Leave, come back the right way! Make them pay for it or send to prison. We are feeding most of them anyways, make them work on a prison farm or something to this sort.

Sure it is harsh and expensive, might even leave a few with a bad taste in their mouth for awhile.

But how many would do it.

RedNeckRaider
05-11-2011, 10:24 AM
How does Disney World get rid of 50,000 people without rounding them up one by one? They turn off the lights, stop the rides and there's no reason for them to be there anymore.

- stop educating their kids for free
- stop paying for their hospital bills
- end birthright citizenship
- enforce the immigration laws by deporting everyone who broke them making them ineligible for citizenship ever again
- e-verify
- start a couple 30k a year positions in border states to verify welfare, food stamp and other social net programs eligibility

Most will leave on their own and will stop the HUGE incentives to cross illegally to put a BIG dent in stopping the bleeding.

Now, I know you're probably not going to agree with any of that but please stop acting like we need a giant net and huge overhead to "round them up and ship them back". That's not how they got here and not how they'll get back.

This~

thecoffeeguy
05-11-2011, 10:24 AM
I was never in favor of granting amnesty but the longer this goes on I think it is inevitable. It is impossible to find and deport 12 million illegals so if we secure the border, get a national ID card, and fine business hundreds of thousands of dollars\illegal alien they hired I could live with it.

I disagree.

WE dont have to deport the illegals. If you deny them what they come here for, they will have no choice but to go home.

Enforce our immigration laws, mandate e-verify for all business and severely punish business who knowingly hire illegals, the problem will correct itself.


We have laws to enforce our immigration policies, but this administration just refuses to enforce them. To take it a step further, he then punishes states that try to protect themselves by drafting their own laws since the federal government refuses to do their job (a la Arizona).

This is going to end badly for Obama.
His numbers are on a downward spiral and this will just accelerate it.

Donger
05-11-2011, 10:27 AM
I am not disagreeing with most of either of your suggestions but that is not what Roy said. He said round them up and ship them back. I am just curious how he would accomplish that.

We already are. 400,000 deported last year, right? They problem is that they keep coming back.

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 10:27 AM
Well, President f###stick, the issue may be that double and triple agents has not stopped the invasion? What you have done hasnt done squat asswipe, so get to work and do more, dont grant every damn sneaker citizenship.

Methinks you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skillz. Some of the 11M does not equal "every damn sneaker".

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 10:27 AM
How does Disney World get rid of 50,000 people without rounding them up one by one? They turn off the lights, stop the rides and there's no reason for them to be there anymore.

- stop educating their kids for free
- stop paying for their hospital bills
- end birthright citizenship
- enforce the immigration laws by deporting everyone who broke them making them ineligible for citizenship ever again
- e-verify
- start a couple 30k a year positions in border states to verify welfare, food stamp and other social net programs eligibility

Most will leave on their own and will stop the HUGE incentives to cross illegally to put a BIG dent in stopping the bleeding.

Now, I know you're probably not going to agree with any of that but please stop acting like we need a giant net and huge overhead to "round them up and ship them back". That's not how they got here and not how they'll get back.


:clap::clap::clap::thumb:

donkhater
05-11-2011, 10:29 AM
I think if you wanted to pass some reform legislation concerning migrant workers or even anchor babies, then you could probably craft something that is not only reasonable, but palatable to both sides of the aisle.

Some suggestions that I could live with:

1. Anyone born here is a U.S. citizen. Anyone that immigrated illegally can NEVER be granted US citizenship. That is the price you pay for breaking the law. However, they can be listed as documented workers with the appropriate taxes and minimum wage requirements attached. Employers subverting these requirements are fined HEAVILY. Any illegal immigrant not documented is deported, ASAP.

2. Felony--deported. X # of misdemeanors--deported.

However the biggest problem IMO with no obvious solution is the millions of unemployed immigrant workers that are still sucking at the government teat so to speak. With these benefits still accessible to them, simple unemployment isn't enough to entice them to migrate back to their country. These benefits must be cut off without documentation that they are gainfully employed.

Does this sound as if they are being treated as a paroled offender? Probably. But instead of amnesty, something like lifetime probation is the price they're going to have to pay.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 10:29 AM
Now doing this very same thing will get the Hispanic community in a uproar, civil unrest, etc. But it will only be a short time.

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 10:32 AM
His numbers are on a downward spiral and this will just accelerate it.

Downward spiral, really?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110511/ap_on_re_us/us_ap_poll_obama_boost

I know you don't like the guy, but at least don't spout disingenuous BS when you're disparaging him.

donkhater
05-11-2011, 10:38 AM
I will say this. Illegal immigrants from Mexico waving the Mexican flag, chanting in spanish and claiming the US is denying them civil rights isn't the way to endear the general public to their cause.

A more attractive stance would be to express love for the country you want to become a citizen of and dissolve into the great 'melting pot' by adhering to US customs. Public opinion polls would be a lot less against them if this is the tact they took IMO. I'm sure many do this already, but that's not what is shown on the six o'clock news.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 10:39 AM
Downward spiral, really?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110511/ap_on_re_us/us_ap_poll_obama_boost

I know you don't like the guy, but at least don't spout disingenuous BS when you're disparaging him.

Usual, normal, Temp. bump in the polls due to OBL. ( any type of war victory )

He will drop soon, he has nothing to keep himself elevated. ( unless he's some type of magician )

Donger
05-11-2011, 10:40 AM
I will say this. Illegal immigrants from Mexico waving the Mexican flag, chanting in spanish and claiming the US is denying them civil rights isn't the way to endear the general public to their cause.

A more attractive stance would be to express love for the country you want to become a citizen of and dissolve into the great 'melting pot' by adhering to US customs. Public opinion polls would be a lot less against them if this is the tact they took IMO.

They don't want to become Americans. They don't want to be assimilated.

dirk digler
05-11-2011, 10:41 AM
They found their way here, right. Find your way back home! Leave, come back the right way! Make them pay for it or send to prison. We are feeding most of them anyways, make them work on a prison farm or something to this sort.

Sure it is harsh and expensive, might even leave a few with a bad taste in their mouth for awhile.

But how many would do it.

lol..right. I am sure they are going to pick up everything they own, remove their kids from American schools and go back to Mexico all on their own. What fantasy world do you live in?

If you were honest you would say it was a dumb idea and come up with something better.

thecoffeeguy
05-11-2011, 10:43 AM
Downward spiral, really?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110511/ap_on_re_us/us_ap_poll_obama_boost

I know you don't like the guy, but at least don't spout disingenuous BS when you're disparaging him.

:LOL:

I find that poll hard to believe when other polls have his numbers significantly lower.

RedNeckRaider
05-11-2011, 10:46 AM
They don't want to become Americans. They don't want to be assimilated.
No the majority do not want to assimilate or take pride in America at all. They seem to be proud and loyal to the third world shit holes they risked life and limb to sneak out of~

dirk digler
05-11-2011, 10:49 AM
I disagree.

WE dont have to deport the illegals. If you deny them what they come here for, they will have no choice but to go home.

Enforce our immigration laws, mandate e-verify for all business and severely punish business who knowingly hire illegals, the problem will correct itself.


We have laws to enforce our immigration policies, but this administration just refuses to enforce them. To take it a step further, he then punishes states that try to protect themselves by drafting their own laws since the federal government refuses to do their job (a la Arizona).

This is going to end badly for Obama.
His numbers are on a downward spiral and this will just accelerate it.

I agree that we need to enforce our immigration laws and strengthen our border and that will in turn force them to leave.

It seems to me though you are laying all of this on the feet of Obama when when every President has refused to really enforce the laws and even Reagan gave them amnesty. 12 million illegals just didn't show up from 2009-2011.

I will also add I agree with those that say this is a political move because it is. Hispanics are now the largest minority voting block in the country and will swing elections like never before.

We already are. 400,000 deported last year, right? They problem is that they keep coming back.

From what I understand almost all of those were caught at the border.

Simplex3
05-11-2011, 10:49 AM
lol..right. I am sure they are going to pick up everything they own, remove their kids from American schools and go back to Mexico all on their own. What fantasy world do you live in?

If you were honest you would say it was a dumb idea and come up with something better.

Faced with that or starving to death: yeah, they'd do that.

Simplex3
05-11-2011, 10:51 AM
It seems to me though you are laying all of this on the feet of Obama when when every President has refused to really enforce the laws and even Reagan gave them amnesty. 12 million illegals just didn't show up from 2009-2011.

Obama is no more or less responsible than every other politician. However he *is* currently the guy whose responsibility it is to enforce the laws of this country so he's rightfully the target on this debate right now.

dirk digler
05-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Faced with that or starving to death: yeah, they'd do that.

They aren't going to leave unless they are forced to.

Just telling them to leave isn't going to work they will just laugh in your face

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 10:54 AM
lol..right. I am sure they are going to pick up everything they own, remove their kids from American schools and go back to Mexico all on their own. What fantasy world do you live in?

If you were honest you would say it was a dumb idea and come up with something better.

Faced with the fact that they are looking at prison compared to going across and coming back legally ? Which would you do, try to hide, as they do ?

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 11:05 AM
Faced with the fact that they are looking at prison compared to going across and coming back legally ? Which would you do, try to hide, as they do ?

Let's just incarcerate everyone. We totally have the $$.

vailpass
05-11-2011, 11:12 AM
Let's just incarcerate everyone. We totally have the $$.

Agreed. Let's just give them all medical care, education, housing assistance, aid and welfare instead. Oh and hey, let's approve the Dream Act so their kids can sponge off of our already strained collegiate system.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 11:19 AM
Let's just incarcerate everyone. We totally have the $$.

The short term expense is smaller than the long term expense.But you knew this, you just had to voice your Liberal point of view, right ?

Now answer this, if we do not act soon, when does it end. When will the 11 million become 22 million ? I'll bet at one time that 11 million number was much smaller.

dirk digler
05-11-2011, 11:28 AM
The short term expense is smaller than the long term expense.But you knew this, you just had to voice your Liberal point of view, right ?

Now answer this, if we do not act soon, when does it end. When will the 11 million become 22 million ? I'll bet at one time that 11 million number was much smaller.

Not really considering you would have to build several new federal prisons at hundreds of millions of dollars a piece.

No one is disagreeing something needs to be done it is just how do we do it.

Otter
05-11-2011, 11:30 AM
The short term expense is smaller than the long term expense.But you knew this, you just had to voice your Liberal point of view, right ?

Now answer this, if we do not act soon, when does it end. When will the 11 million become 22 million ? I'll bet at one time that 11 million number was much smaller.

The total number of illegals in the country is WAYYYYY closer to 22 million than 11 million already.

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 11:49 AM
The short term expense is smaller than the long term expense.But you knew this, you just had to voice your Liberal point of view, right ?

Now answer this, if we do not act soon, when does it end. When will the 11 million become 22 million ? I'll bet at one time that 11 million number was much smaller.

W and Congressional R's tried to get this passed in 2006, but it was derailed by the far right. You can't refuse to compromise, watch the problem get worse, and then bitch that nothing's being done. The rest of the country isn't hostage to your point of view (except in Congress).

And mischaracterizing a limited, difficult path to citizenship as amnesty does nothing to advance the debate. But that's what today's "conservatives" excel at, winning the propaganda wars. Death panels, death taxes, etc.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/obamas-speech-in-el-paso/238716/

Obama is pushing the familiar three-part strategy: tighter security controls at and behind the border; a more liberal regime for highly skilled immigrants; and a pathway (maybe a too-difficult pathway) to legal status for the 11m illegal immigrants already in the country. It is essentially the same formula that George W. Bush proposed, and that once-moderate Republicans such as John McCain used to back.

Predarat
05-11-2011, 11:56 AM
I know he was trying to make fun of USA Citizens with that remark, but its actually one of his better ideas.

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 11:58 AM
Surprise, surprise, the rest of the country doesn't share the windtard CP viewpoint.

http://nationaljournal.com/politics/the-immigration-paradox-20110511

In March, for instance, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that 72 percent of Americans said they would support “providing a way for illegal immigrants currently in the country to gain legal citizenship if they pass background checks, pay fines, and have jobs.” On the four other occasions Pew has asked that question, dating back to 2007, at least 58 percent of Americans have echoed that sentiment.

Likewise, in CBS/New York Times polls dating back to 2006, consistently only about one-third of Americans have said that illegal immigrants should be deported, while about three-fifths or more have said they should be allowed to obtain legal status and remain in the country if they meet certain conditions. Surveys by the Los Angeles Times and the ABC/Washington Post dating back to the 2006 immigration debate have usually produced similar results as well.

In the latest Pew survey, nearly four-fifths of Democrats and almost three-fourths of independents supported a pathway to legalization—as did more than three-fifths of both Republicans and self-indentified conservatives

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 12:00 PM
I know he was trying to make fun of USA Citizens with that remark, but its actually one of his better ideas.

Alligators, in a desert? Are you high or retarded?

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 12:05 PM
Surprise, surprise, the rest of the country doesn't share the windtard CP viewpoint.

http://nationaljournal.com/politics/the-immigration-paradox-20110511

In March, for instance, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that 72 percent of Americans said they would support “providing a way for illegal immigrants currently in the country to gain legal citizenship if they pass background checks, pay fines, and have jobs.” On the four other occasions Pew has asked that question, dating back to 2007, at least 58 percent of Americans have echoed that sentiment.

Likewise, in CBS/New York Times polls dating back to 2006, consistently only about one-third of Americans have said that illegal immigrants should be deported, while about three-fifths or more have said they should be allowed to obtain legal status and remain in the country if they meet certain conditions. Surveys by the Los Angeles Times and the ABC/Washington Post dating back to the 2006 immigration debate have usually produced similar results as well.

In the latest Pew survey, nearly four-fifths of Democrats and almost three-fourths of independents supported a pathway to legalization—as did more than three-fifths of both Republicans and self-indentified conservatives

The key word you used was ................. drum roll please .................................................................................................... ................................... IF

Predarat
05-11-2011, 12:07 PM
Alligators, in a desert? Are you high or retarded?

High, he needs to focus more on legalizing MaryJ and hookahs instead of Illegals. And I did not say it was a good idea, I said it was one of his better ideas.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 12:09 PM
I will say this much, I do not recall a POTUS that was more arrogant,less class and whined as much as this one does.

FishingRod
05-11-2011, 12:21 PM
I caught a little bit of the speech. From what I saw, he was saying that the problem of people illegally crossing our southern border has been solved and thanks to his policies (whatever they are) that it is now a non issue. That is great to hear! I must have missed this huge victory somehow. Can someone better informed than myself explain how this has come to pass?

vailpass
05-11-2011, 12:22 PM
I caught a little bit of the speech. From what I saw, he was saying that the problem of people illegally crossing our southern border has been solved and thanks to his policies (whatever they are) that it is now a non issue. That is great to hear! I must have missed this huge victory somehow. Can someone better informed than myself explain how this has come to pass?

As a resident of a border state I can tell you that obama is once again bullsh*tting the public.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 12:25 PM
As a resident of a border state I can tell you that obama is once again bullsh*tting the public.

That is an everyday occurrence.

donkhater
05-11-2011, 12:29 PM
I will say this. Illegal immigrants from Mexico waving the Mexican flag, chanting in spanish and claiming the US is denying them civil rights isn't the way to endear the general public to their cause.

A more attractive stance would be to express love for the country you want to become a citizen of and dissolve into the great 'melting pot' by adhering to US customs. Public opinion polls would be a lot less against them if this is the tact they took IMO. I'm sure many do this already, but that's not what is shown on the six o'clock news.

I know I'm going to sound like a doomsdayer as I type this, but there is a deeper reason behind what I wrote above.

Even if 50% of illegal aliens in this nation do assimilate into the American culture, that means that 50% do not and therefore have alligence to a foreign country. Is this the type of "citizen" (and I use that word loosely for the example I'm using) we want in this country?

Granting amnesty or a pathway to citizenship to those persons that have already demonstrated a disregard and lack of respect for the laws of the land is a VERY dangerous precendent to set. I'm not talking about the economic ramifications, which would be dire, IMO, but cultural and national security ramifications as well.

donkhater
05-11-2011, 12:32 PM
As a resident of a border state I can tell you that obama is once again bullsh*tting the public.

What does he have to lose? By demagouging, he virtually ensures nothing will happen, thereby setting himself up to be the 'good' guy (at least to the left and some hispanics) while never having to take responsibility for the consequences of a crappy law that may pass while he is president.

It's a politician's wet dream.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 12:42 PM
What does he have to lose? By demagouging, he virtually ensures nothing will happen, thereby setting himself up to be the 'good' guy (at least to the left and some hispanics) while never having to take responsibility for the consequences of a crappy law that may pass while he is president.

It's a politician's wet dream.

A POTUS , Senate & Congress is suppose to have balls of steel when it comes to running the country. Political suicide often is the blame for not getting the proper things done.

Direckshun
05-11-2011, 12:44 PM
I'm with donkhater. I guarantee with the GOP going full retard on immigration issues, the White House is opening up campaign season by pushing an issue that (a.) won't likely gain any ground, and (b.) will expose the Republican position as "Arizona Plus."

It's a political manuever. Not terribly deft, but you don't really have to be. You just have to throw the ball in the pit, let Republicans go rabid on it, and point to the voters and say "this is what I'm running against."

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 12:46 PM
I'm with donkhater. I guarantee with the GOP going full retard on immigration issues, the White House is opening up campaign season by pushing an issue that (a.) won't likely gain any ground, and (b.) will expose the Republican position as "Arizona Plus."

It's a political manuever. Not terribly deft, but you don't really have to be. You just have to throw the ball in the pit, let Republicans go rabid on it, and point to the voters and say "this is what I'm running against."

Obama has " his " record to run against.

Nuff said.

Direckshun
05-11-2011, 12:52 PM
Obama has "his" record to run against.

Nuff said.

On immigration?

I think people are pissed off about illegal immigrants, but I don't think they regard them as the parasitic assholes that the GOP base does.

Going Full Arizona fires up your base, but leaves the rest of the population feeling uneasy.

Independents are not going to want to go Full Arizona, and that's really the only possible solution the GOP can push for themselves and keep their base in tact.

ROYC75
05-11-2011, 01:03 PM
On immigration?

I think people are pissed off about illegal immigrants, but I don't think they regard them as the parasitic assholes that the GOP base does.

Going Full Arizona fires up your base, but leaves the rest of the population feeling uneasy.

Independents are not going to want to go Full Arizona, and that's really the only possible solution the GOP can push for themselves and keep their base in tact.

Obama with a senate and house did nothing to address immigration. To continue to blame POTUS ,house & senate members is ludicrous as well. It has been an age old problem for years and getting worst. Obama never addressed it in his campaign or during his 2+ years, he isn't now, political suicide, but yet it needs to be done.

Obama can paint the R's as fault,but it falls on his watch like it has every POTUS since it became an issue.

Time to man up, who ever can.

Simplex3
05-11-2011, 01:43 PM
Obama is pushing the familiar three-part strategy: tighter security controls at and behind the border; a more liberal regime for highly skilled immigrants; and a pathway (maybe a too-difficult pathway) to legal status for the 11m illegal immigrants already in the country. It is essentially the same formula that George W. Bush proposed, and that once-moderate Republicans such as John McCain used to back.

Stop the flow of new illegals first, then we can talk compromise on the ones that are already here. Until that you're just trolling for a new voting block.

Direckshun
05-11-2011, 01:53 PM
Stop the flow of new illegals first, then we can talk compromise on the ones that are already here.

Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit A as to why the Republican Party cannot win this issue.

Conservatives want one thing and one thing only: all illegal immigrants out.

That's how they end up going Full Arizona, leaving everybody but their hardcore base behind them.

Obama's playing the Republican Party's lack of pragmatism against itself. This will only be the first of many subjects.

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 01:54 PM
I know I'm going to sound like a doomsdayer as I type this, but there is a deeper reason behind what I wrote above.

Even if 50% of illegal aliens in this nation do assimilate into the American culture, that means that 50% do not and therefore have alligence to a foreign country. Is this the type of "citizen" (and I use that word loosely for the example I'm using) we want in this country?

This criticism is leveled at every successive wave of immigrants. Doesn't mean it's valid.

Granting amnesty or a pathway to citizenship to those persons that have already demonstrated a disregard and lack of respect for the laws of the land is a VERY dangerous precendent to set. I'm not talking about the economic ramifications, which would be dire, IMO, but cultural and national security ramifications as well.

Precedent..... you do know we already did this in 1986, right?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1106/p13s01-ussc.html

LiveSteam
05-11-2011, 02:03 PM
I was never in favor of granting amnesty but the longer this goes on I think it is inevitable. It is impossible to find and deport 12 million illegals so if we secure the border, get a national ID card, and fine business hundreds of thousands of dollars\illegal alien they hired I could live with it.

Your wrong IMO. all we need is 1 law that says you will face felony charges & jail time
for hire ,using or renting to. Illegals. No one would hire them or rent to them. & they would go home on their own. a lot already have over lack of work.

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 02:05 PM
Your wrong. all we need is 1 law that says you will face felony charges & major jail time
for hire ,using or renting to. Illegals. No one would hire them or rent to them. & they would go home on their own. a lot already have over lack of work.

Sure, but this has no chance of passage. R's would scream that the government is unfairly burdening small business owners, and the D's would acquiesce.

donkhater
05-11-2011, 02:06 PM
This criticism is leveled at every successive wave of immigrants. Doesn't mean it's valid.



Precedent..... you do know we already did this in 1986, right?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1106/p13s01-ussc.html

Yes I do know it happened before and what happened? EVEN MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CAME.

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 02:07 PM
Yes I do know it happened before and what happened? EVEN MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CAME.

a) Then you don't know what precedent means, and

b) Read the article. The government skimped on the border enforcement, and the amnesty is more restrictive this time around. Learning from previous mistakes, and all that jazz.

donkhater
05-11-2011, 02:08 PM
This criticism is leveled at every successive wave of immigrants. Doesn't mean it's valid.


It a valid point for illegal immigrants.

Why is the left continually lumping ALL immigration (legal and illegal) together?

No need to answer, the question was rhetorical.

donkhater
05-11-2011, 02:09 PM
a) Then you don't know what precedent means, and

b) Read the article. The government skimped on the border enforcement.

And surely they won't skimp this time, right?

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 02:12 PM
And surely they won't skimp this time, right?

You're making this easy.

http://usa-green-card.com/blog/index.php/2011/04/08/

"The immigration enforcement budget has more than tripled over the past decade."

LiveSteam
05-11-2011, 02:15 PM
Sure, but this has no chance of passage. R's would scream that the government is unfairly burdening small business owners, and the D's would acquiesce.

I own a small bizz that I cant grow cause all the Mexicans & their shit masonry skills, take away from my bizz. as for all the white trash Americans that hire these illegals. GO FUCKING DIE IN A FIRE!

donkhater
05-11-2011, 02:15 PM
You're making this easy.

http://usa-green-card.com/blog/index.php/2011/04/08/

"The immigration enforcement budget has more than tripled over the past decade."

So no more illegals will be crossing the border?

Did someone tell the border states?

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 02:17 PM
I own a small bizz that I cant grow cause all the Mexicans & their shit masonry skills, take away from my bizz. as for all the white trash Americans that hire these illegals. GO ****ING DIE IN A FIRE!

Sorry to hear that. I'd say report them, but we both know that would be a waste of time.

I'm on record, btw, of being opposed to non-skilled immigration at a time of 9% unemployment.

Cave Johnson
05-11-2011, 02:28 PM
So no more illegals will be crossing the border?

Did someone tell the border states?

Yeah, but I really think this alligator/moat proposal will do the trick.

vailpass
05-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Yeah, but I really think this alligator/moat proposal will do the trick.

Unrealistic.
Gila Monsters, scorpions, rattle snakes we have but alligators just wouldn't work.

Simplex3
05-11-2011, 02:42 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit A as to why the Republican Party cannot win this issue.

Conservatives want one thing and one thing only: all illegal immigrants out.

That's how they end up going Full Arizona, leaving everybody but their hardcore base behind them.

Obama's playing the Republican Party's lack of pragmatism against itself. This will only be the first of many subjects.

The Republican plan to build a fence and "round up" the illegals that are here is stupid. The Democrat plan (that was the Regan plan) to just let the ones that are already here suddenly be legal is every bit as stupid. The first is impossible at any cost and the second only encourages more of the behavior it pretends to try and stop.

Unless the Democrat plan isn't to fix illegal immigration, but rather to keep importing new poor people to vote Democrat. Then it will work to perfection until the rest of the population figures out they've been had.

Simplex3
05-11-2011, 02:42 PM
Precedent..... you do know we already did this in 1986, right?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1106/p13s01-ussc.html

Yes, and it got us even more illegals.

donkhater
05-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Yes, and it got us even more illegals.

Apparently you don't know what precedent means either. (see post #81).

Simplex3
05-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Apparently you don't know what precedent means either. (see post #81).

I know exactly what it means. There is a lot of precedent for the USPTO giving out patents on things that have prior art. Doesn't make it smart.

Direckshun
05-11-2011, 03:55 PM
The Democrat plan (that was the Regan plan) to just let the ones that are already here suddenly be legal is every bit as stupid. The first is impossible at any cost and the second only encourages more of the behavior it pretends to try and stop.

The Democratic plan and large parts of the Reagan plan include a step up in enforcement.

It's unclear whether either of the parties are willing to increase pressure on employers.

vailpass
05-11-2011, 04:22 PM
The Democratic plan and large parts of the Reagan plan include a step up in enforcement.

It's unclear whether either of the parties are willing to increase pressure on employers.

Thanks for that authoritative inside knowledge. Can the other members of Congress tell that you are typing on a message board?

Simplex3
05-11-2011, 04:26 PM
The Democratic plan and large parts of the Reagan plan include a step up in enforcement.

Yes, and I learned from the last time they pulled this stunt and forgot the enforcement part.

dirk digler
05-11-2011, 04:30 PM
Your wrong IMO. all we need is 1 law that says you will face felony charges & jail time
for hire ,using or renting to. Illegals. No one would hire them or rent to them. & they would go home on their own. a lot already have over lack of work.

There is already a law to fine businesses $100,000\illegal that is caught working for you. It hasn't stopped anything.

The fact is most illegals, at least the ones I have dealt with, have fake SS cards and when you run that number come up clean. I don't know how they do it but they do.