View Full Version : General Politics Pakistan Our Ally?

05-16-2011, 09:55 PM
Anyone get the feeling something pretty big will be coming soon from Pakistan on the war on terror?

Kerry goes over with a list of demands and Billions of $$$ at stake.

Don't be surprised if pakistan comes through on a big bust now, prob from some of the intel we got from OBL, to show they aren't as incompetent as everyone thinks and deserve our money. And they'll still prob get reward bounty money too.

Who will they get?

If I was Zawahri I would be nervous.

At the end of the day, it's all about the money.

US, Pakistan to cooperate on `high value targets'

ISLAMABAD – The U.S. and Pakistan agreed Monday to work together in any future actions against "high value targets" in Pakistan, even as U.S. Sen. John Kerry defended Washington's decision not to tell Islamabad in advance about the American raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

The pledge, which was made in a joint statement, could help mollify Pakistani officials and citizens, who were enraged that one of the country's most important allies would conduct a unilateral operation on its soil. But details of the promised cooperation were unclear.

Kerry said Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton will soon announce plans to visit Pakistan — a sign of confidence in the relationship — and announced that he and Pakistani leaders have agreed to a "series of steps" to improve relations. But he did not specify what those steps were.

Kerry is the most high-profile American emissary to visit Pakistan since the May 2 raid in the northwest garrison city of Abbottabad, Pakistan, which killed the al-Qaida chief and four others. His comments during the visit mixed defiance with promises to work to rebuild the relationship between the two countries.

"My goal in coming here is not to apologize for what I consider to be a triumph against terrorism of unprecedented consequence," said Kerry. "My goal in coming here has been to talk about how we manage this important relationship."

Kerry, who chairs the U.S. Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, said he understood why Pakistanis were upset at the American raid, but emphasized "the extraordinary circumstances behind the mission against bin Laden."

"When I spoke with the leaders of Pakistan last night and today, I explained that the extreme secrecy surrounding every aspect of the raid in Abbottabad was essential to protecting the lives of the professionals who were involved and ensuring they succeeded in capturing or killing the man responsible for so much death in so many places," said Kerry.

But he also said that bin Laden and other foreign fighters who followed him to Pakistan from Afghanistan were the ones "who truly violated Pakistan's sovereignty."

"They inspired and conspired with the extremists responsible for the deaths of 35,000 Pakistani citizens and the deaths of more than 5,000 Pakistani soldiers," said Kerry.

He said he was pleased the Pakistani government has committed "to explore how increased cooperation on joint operations and intelligence sharing can maximize our efforts ... to defeat the enemies we face."

Kerry also announced that Pakistan had agreed to return the tail of a stealth U.S. helicopter that American commandos had to destroy during the bin Laden raid because it malfunctioned.

Kerry arrived in Pakistan on Sunday from Afghanistan where he told reporters the United States wanted Pakistan to be a real ally in the fight against militancy.


The Nation newspaper, which generally reflects the thinking of the military establishment, said Kerry's mission was to pressure Pakistan into accepting all U.S. demands, even at the cost of Pakistan's national interests.

"The U.S. may have serious questions post-Osama episode, but Pakistan stands totally disenchanted and dismayed," the paper said in an editorial.

The government should stick to the positions spelled out by parliament on the weekend, it said.

"There should be no compromise on sovereignty and national interests at any costs."

The U.S. administration has not accused Pakistan of complicity in hiding bin Laden but has said he must have had some sort of support network, which it wants to uncover.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton spoke on Sunday to President Asif Ali Zardari by telephone about the situation since bin Laden's death, Zardari's office said, adding Zardari told Clinton about parliament's concerns.

"Both agreed to resolve the issues amicably and move forward," the president's office said.

Police in the southern commercial hub of Karachi said gunmen on motorcycles killed the Saudi diplomat. The attack came days after assailants threw two hand grenades at the Saudi consulate in Pakistan's commercial hub. No one was hurt in that attack.

Al Qaeda is violently opposed to the Saudi government, which is a close ally of Pakistan, and has vowed revenge for the killing of its leader. Their allies, the Pakistani Taliban, said they killed the diplomat.

"We take responsibility," a Taliban spokesman said by telephone from an undisclosed location, referring to the killing of the diplomat earlier in the day.

"Until America stops chasing al Qaeda and stops drone strikes we will keep carrying out such attacks," he said, referring to U.S. attacks with pilotless aircraft on militants in northwest Pakistan.


05-16-2011, 09:59 PM
US, Pakistan try to salvage ties

ISLAMABAD – A top U.S. emissary warned Pakistan on Monday that "actions not words" are needed to tackle militant sanctuaries, as the two countries tried to salvage their relationship two weeks after the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden in a garrison town close to the national capital.

Sen. John Kerry, the first high-level American official to visit Islamabad since the May 2 death of the al-Qaida leader, said Pakistan agreed to take several "specific steps" immediately to improve ties.

But he did not say whether those steps include what the U.S. wants most: action against the Haqqani network and other Taliban factions sheltering in Pakistan and killing American troops in neighboring Afghanistan.

Although the United States says it has no evidence that Pakistan's civil or military leadership knew of bin Laden's whereabouts, the knowledge that the U.S. might find some evidence in the documents seized in the terror leader's compound has given it new leverage over Islamabad.

Pakistan has long balked at U.S. requests to crack down on Afghan Taliban factions on its soil. The Taliban and al-Qaida have close ties, and suspicions over Pakistani complicity in hiding bin Laden have fostered further questions about whether Pakistan is not only tolerating but perhaps even supporting other militants.

Kerry noted that several members of the U.S. Congress no longer want to authorize U.S. aid to Pakistan given the suspicions generated by the bin Laden raid.

"Members of Congress are not confident that things can be patched up again," said Kerry, who chairs the U.S. Senate's Foreign Relations Committee and is considered a friend of Pakistan. "That is why actions not words are going to be critical to earning their votes."

Bin Laden's hideaway in Abbottabad, which also houses Pakistan's version of West Point, has compounded questions in America's eyes over this country's reliability as an ally. Pakistanis reacted angrily to the U.S. incursion on their soil.

Kerry's public comments and a later joint statement with Pakistan's army and intelligence chiefs after a series of meetings indicated willingness on both sides to stabilize a vital relationship.

Still, there were few immediate tangible signs of progress.

Kerry said Pakistan agreed to hand over the tail of a classified stealth helicopter that was destroyed by the American commandos when it malfunctioned on the raid on bin Laden's hideaway. He also said Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton would soon announce a trip to the country.

Late Monday, U.S. missiles fired from a drone hit a house and car a region close to the Afghan border that is home to al-Qaida and Taliban leaders, killing seven militants, Pakistani intelligence officials said. The suspected identities of the dead in North Waziristan were not released.

The U.S. attack came two days after the Pakistani parliament, following a debate dominated by anger over the bin Laden raid, demanded an end to the missile strikes as well. The drone strikes are intensely unpopular among Pakistanis but, at least in the past, have been carried out with the consent of Pakistani authorities. It was unclear if the latest attack would generate more rancor.

Nominal allies since 2001 when Pakistan severed its links to the Taliban in Afghanistan and supported the U.S.-led invasion, relations between the two countries have never been smooth. Many Pakistanis are hostile to the United States and its presence in Afghanistan.

Pakistan allows the United States to truck much of its war supplies over its soil into Afghanistan. Its ties with Afghan Taliban factions means it will also be important to negotiating an end to the war there, as Washington now believes is inevitable.

For its part, Pakistan desperately needs U.S. assistance to keep its economy afloat and its army equipped against the threat it perceives from rising regional giant India.

That means neither the U.S. nor Pakistan can afford a complete break in relations regardless of how tense the relations become.

"We have got to get the job done (in Afghanistan), and we need Pakistan's cooperation, and they need ours," Kerry told reporters. "And that's where we need to work on and I think we have made a lot of progress on that."

Mark Morrel, the deputy director of the CIA, and Marc Grossman, the Obama administration's envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, are also expected to visit Pakistan soon.

The American raid was initially welcomed by Pakistan's president and prime minister, but the mood changed after a day or so when the army — the real power center in the country — issued angry statements accusing the United States of violating its sovereignty.

Monday's joint statement said both sides pledged to work together in any future actions against "high value targets" in Pakistan, apparently an attempt to placate Pakistanis angry that the army was not told in advance about the raid on bin Laden's compound. The statement did not explicitly rule out any more unilateral raids against al-Qaida and Taliban targets in the country, something that American officials have also declined to do in recent days.

"My goal in coming here is not to apologize for what I consider to be a triumph against terrorism of unprecedented consequence," Kerry said. "My goal in coming here has been to talk about how we manage this important relationship."


05-16-2011, 10:07 PM
Lemme see, we worked on a mission with Pakistan that captured 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. He was caught by Pakistani intelligence forces and transferred into U.S. custody.

That Pakistan?

If I was Zawahri I would be nervous.
If it's him, that'd be awesome. Then we can go home.

05-16-2011, 10:18 PM
Lemme see, we worked on a mission with Pakistan that captured 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. He was caught by Pakistani intelligence forces and transferred into U.S. custody.

That Pakistan?

If it's him, that'd be awesome. Then we can go home.

It sure would open up a smooth drawdown.

05-16-2011, 10:30 PM
History of U.S.-Pakistan Relations

The United States and Pakistan have had a rocky relationship since the war on terror began in 2001. The United States has accused Pakistan of harboring terrorists within their borders, especially in light of the killing of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad.

Pakistan, in turn, was angry at the United States for not being more forthright on its plans for going after the terrorist. They released names of CIA operatives in Pakistan which would compromise intelligence gathering in the area. The intelligence gathering arm of the government suspended operations with the United States soon after the bin Laden raid. It was not the first time Pakistani officials revealed the name of important CIA members in retaliation.

Pakistan has had a long relationship as an American ally soon after its independence from Great Britain in 1947.

Early Diplomatic Ties

Pakistan very quickly joined two anti-Soviet defensive alliances in the early 1950s. By joining the South East Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) and the Central Treaty Organization (CTO), the Asian nation secured $2 billion in funding from the United States from 1953 to 1961. The Congressional Research Service states a quarter of that aid was for military assistance.

When Pakistan and neighboring India were in conflict during various years in the 1960s and 1970s, aid was suspended until the country would be able to peacefully coexist with its neighbors. India's nuclear ambitions further strained Pakistan's relationship with the United States as they wanted similar nuclear power and weapons.

Cold War's End

As the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in 1988 and 1989, Pakistan came under even more scrutiny as to their nuclear prowess. A power vacuum in neighboring Afghanistan would give any tactical advantage to a country with better resources. If Pakistan couldn't have more control over its border with India, at least its opposite border would be more secure with nuclear weapons at the ready.

Military aid was also suspended for fears it may destabilize the region with Soviet troops leaving Afghanistan. The United States compensated by providing food assistance and medical supplies.

Pakistan Today

Since 2001, the United States has been relying on Pakistan for intelligence gathering as it pertains to the war on the terror. Many terrorists were apprehended in 2002 and 2003, although bin Laden's capture was high on the United States' list of goals in the war against terrorist organizations.

Economic ties with Pakistan are important as the country exports $3 billion in goods to the United States. Relief aid was in the hundreds of millions of dollars during immense floods of 2010 that affected around 20 million people. The Asian country has relied heavily on money and supplies from the United States as it has been given more than $20 billion since 2002 for its assistance in fighting in Afghanistan.


05-16-2011, 10:41 PM
Obama will throw them under the bus like every other real ally we have. Pakis better watch their back.

05-16-2011, 10:50 PM
To know all about Obama's policies, you need look no further than zbigniew brzezinski's grand chessboard to destabilize the region and split Pakistan into several micro states. It's all about China with Pakistan as the pawn.

05-16-2011, 11:07 PM
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05-17-2011, 08:23 AM
If it's him, that'd be awesome. Then we can go home.


Comedy, thy name is BEP.

05-17-2011, 09:16 AM
Don't get too excited yet.

Pakistan and NATO Forces Exchange FireBy SALMAN MASOOD
Published: May 17, 2011

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistani ground troops opened fire on two NATO helicopters that crossed into Pakistan’s airspace from Afghanistan early Tuesday morning, the Pakistani Army said in a statement. A firefight then briefly erupted between NATO forces and the troops, the statement said, and two Pakistani soldiers were wounded.

The clash took place at Admi Kot Post in the North Waziristan tribal region of Pakistan, an area that American officials have long regarded as a haven used by militants to attack coalition forces inside Afghanistan. NATO officials said they were looking into the incident, and could not immediately confirm whether the helicopters had indeed entered Pakistan’s airspace.

The exchange of fire between NATO and Pakistani forces appeared likely to worsen frictions between Pakistan and the United States. The Pakistani Army “lodged a strong protest and demanded a flag meeting,” the statement said, referring to a meeting between officials from Pakistan and NATO.

Last September, Pakistan shut down for more than a week the land route through Pakistan that NATO uses to supply its forces in Afghanistan, after two Pakistani paramilitary soldiers were killed in a similar border clash.

Tuesday’s clash came as Pakistan’s prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, traveled to Beijing. Analysts said that visit was meant to signal to the United States that Pakistan saw China as an alternative source of security and economic aid.

On Monday, Senator John Kerry met with top civil and military leaders in Pakistan in an effort to smooth the fraying relations between the two countries in the wake of the American raid by forces that killed Osama bin Laden. The Pakistani Parliament in a closed-door session last week urged the government to renew and revisit its terms of engagement with the United States. It also warned that it might sever supply lines to coalition forces in Afghanistan if there were further unilateral incursions.

Drone attacks, which are operated by the C.I.A., not by the NATO-led coalition force, are highly unpopular in Pakistan. Nationalist and right-wing Islamist political parties regularly denounce the use of drone attacks inside Pakistani territory. Government officials who in the past privately approved the use of drones have lately been joining the chorus of public criticism.

Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan’s leading spy organization, also maintains that it has stopped cooperating with the United States in choosing targets for drone attacks.

At the same time, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the Pakistani Army chief, has resisted American pressure to start a military operation in North Waziristan, a stronghold of the Haqqani network, whose militants cross into Afghanistan to battle American and NATO soldiers.


05-17-2011, 09:29 AM
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Man that would make for some great target practice~

05-17-2011, 09:35 AM
Is the reason we are friendly with them due to them having Nukes and we don't want to see them "lose" some to a terrorist organization?

05-17-2011, 09:58 AM
Is the reason we are friendly with them due to them having Nukes and we don't want to see them "lose" some to a terrorist organization?

That, and it is the easiest way to supply the troops in Afghanistan.

03-19-2014, 07:12 PM
What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/magazine/what-pakistan-knew-about-bin-laden.html?_r=2)

excerpts below.

The Pakistani government, under President Pervez Musharraf and his intelligence chief, Lt. Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, was maintaining and protecting the Taliban, both to control the many groups of militants now lodged in the country and to use them as a proxy force to gain leverage over and eventually dominate Afghanistan. The dynamic has played out in ways that can be hard to grasp from the outside, but the strategy that has evolved in Pakistan has been to make a show of cooperation with the American fight against terrorism while covertly abetting and even coordinating Taliban, Kashmiri and foreign Qaeda-linked militants. The linchpin in this two-pronged and at times apparently oppositional strategy is the ISI. It’s through that agency that Pakistan’s true relationship to militant extremism can be discerned — a fact that the United States was slow to appreciate, and later refused to face directly, for fear of setting off a greater confrontation with a powerful Muslim nation.

All over the country, Pakistan’s various intelligence agencies — the ISI, the Intelligence Bureau and Military Intelligence — keep safe houses for undercover operations. They use residential houses, often in quiet, secure neighborhoods, where they lodge people for interrogation or simply enforced seclusion. Detainees have been questioned by American interrogators in such places and sometimes held for months. Leaders of banned militant groups are often placed in protective custody in this way. Others, including Taliban leaders who took refuge in Pakistan after their fall in Afghanistan in 2001, lived under a looser arrangement, with their own guards but also known to their Pakistani handlers, former Pakistani officials told me. Because of Pakistan’s long practice of covertly supporting militant groups, police officers — who have been warned off or even demoted for getting in the way of ISI operations — have learned to leave such safe houses alone.

The split over how to handle militants is not just between the ISI and the local police; the intelligence service itself is compartmentalized. In 2007, a former senior intelligence official who worked on tracking members of Al Qaeda after Sept. 11 told me that while one part of the ISI was engaged in hunting down militants, another part continued to work with them.

Soon after the Navy SEAL raid on Bin Laden’s house, a Pakistani official told me that the United States had direct evidence that the ISI chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, knew of Bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad. The information came from a senior United States official, and I guessed that the Americans had intercepted a phone call of Pasha’s or one about him in the days after the raid. “He knew of Osama’s whereabouts, yes,” the Pakistani official told me. The official was surprised to learn this and said the Americans were even more so. Pasha had been an energetic opponent of the Taliban and an open and cooperative counterpart for the Americans at the ISI. “Pasha was always their blue-eyed boy,” the official said. But in the weeks and months after the raid, Pasha and the ISI press office strenuously denied that they had any knowledge of Bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad.

The haul of handwritten notes, letters, computer files and other information collected from Bin Laden’s house during the raid suggested otherwise, however. It revealed regular correspondence between Bin Laden and a string of militant leaders who must have known he was living in Pakistan, including Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, the founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba, a pro-Kashmiri group that has also been active in Afghanistan, and Mullah Omar of the Taliban. Saeed and Omar are two of the ISI’s most important and loyal militant leaders. Both are protected by the agency.

America’s failure to fully understand and actively confront Pakistan on its support and export of terrorism is one of the primary reasons President Karzai has become so disillusioned with the United States. As American and NATO troops prepare to withdraw from Afghanistan by the end of this year, the Pakistani military and its Taliban proxy forces lie in wait, as much a threat as any that existed in 2001.

Prison Bitch
03-19-2014, 07:28 PM
Pakistan is no friend. They're a major sponsor of terror and they continue to incite India who by most accounts is a rational democracy. I predict the next major global conflict will occur between them and if that happens, America will be forced to act on India's behalf

03-19-2014, 07:33 PM
America will be forced to act on India's behalf

I predict the US will stay on the sidelines and try to sell military products to both countries.


03-19-2014, 08:40 PM
we should probably invade them.
just in case......

Easy 6
03-19-2014, 09:20 PM
"It is such a big, lawless land... it will take many millions and countless arms to find him"

"Oh wait, oh holy moly LOL... you mean he was right here next to our military academy? man, oh my God, we pooched the screw, eh?"

03-20-2014, 03:20 PM
Pakistan is our ally? Funny stuff.