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View Full Version : Int'l Issues Obama urges Israel to go back to 1967 borders


Donger
05-19-2011, 02:46 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110519/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_mideast;_ylt=ArNtgZCxAA69V5fVyoDsQbus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNnNzltODJ2BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTE5L3Vz X29iYW1hX21pZGVhc3QEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMyBHB0A2hvbWVfY29rZQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5 BHNsawNvYmFtYXVyZ2VzaXM-

WASHINGTON – Forcefully stepping into an explosive Middle East debate, President Barack Obama on Thursday endorsed a key Palestinian demand for the borders of its future state and prodded Israel to accept that it can never have a truly peaceful nation based on "permanent occupation."

Obama's urging that a Palestinian state be based on 1967 borders — before the Six Day War in which Israel occupied East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza — was a significant shift in the U.S. approach. It drew an immediate negative response from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is to meet with Obama at the White House Friday.

In a statement released late Thursday in Jerusalem, Netanyahu called the 1967 lines "indefensible," saying such a withdrawal would jeopardize Israel's security and leave major West Bank settlements outside Israeli borders, though Obama left room for adjustments reached through negotiations.

At the same time, it was not immediately clear whether Obama's statement on the 1967 borders as the basis for negotiations — something the Palestinians have long sought — would be sufficient to persuade the Palestinians to drop their push for U.N. recognition of their statehood. Obama rejected the Palestinians' unilateral statehood bid Thursday as he sought to underscore U.S. support for Israel notwithstanding the endorsement of the 1967 borders.

"Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won't create an independent state," Obama said.

Obama's comments came in his most comprehensive response to date to the uprisings sweeping the Arab world. Speaking at the State Department, he called for the first time for the leader of Syria to embrace democracy or move aside, though without specifically demanding his ouster.

As he addressed audiences abroad and at home, Obama sought to leave no doubt that the U.S. stands behind the protesters who have swelled from nation to nation across the Middle East and North Africa, while also trying to convince American viewers that U.S. involvement in unstable countries halfway around the world is in their interest, too.

Obama said the United States has a historic opportunity and the responsibility to support the rights of people clamoring for freedoms, and he called for "a new chapter in American diplomacy."

"We know that our own future is bound to this region by the forces of economics and security; history and faith," the president said.

He hailed the killing of al-Qaida terrorist leader Osama bin Laden and declared that bin Laden's vision of destruction was fading even before U.S. forces shot him dead.

Obama said the "shouts of human dignity are being heard across the region."

The president noted that two leaders had stepped down — referring to Egypt and Tunisia — and said that "more may follow." He quoted civilian protesters who have pushed for change in Egypt, Libya, Syria and Yemen — though without noting that among those nations, only Egypt has seen the departure of a long-ruling autocratic leader.

Obama said that while there will be setbacks accompanying progress in political transitions, the movements present a valuable opportunity for the U.S. to show which side it is on. "We have a chance to show that America values the dignity of the street vendor in Tunisia more than the raw power of a dictator," he said, referring to the fruit vendor who killed himself in despair and sparked a chain of events that unleashed uprisings around the Arab world.

On the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, the president cautioned that the recent power-sharing agreement between the mainstream Palestinian faction led by Mahmoud Abbas and the radical Hamas movement that rules Gaza "raises profound and legitimate" security questions for Israel. Netanyahu has refused to deal with a Palestinian government that includes Hamas.

"How can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist?" Obama asked. "In the weeks and months to come, Palestinian leaders will have to provide a credible answer to that question."

The president ignored many of the most divisive issues separating the two sides. He did not speak about the status of Jerusalem or the fate of Palestinian refugees. And, he did not discuss a way to resolve Israel's concerns about a Hamas role in a unified Palestinian government, telling the Palestinians that they would have to address the matter themselves.

On Syria, Obama said President Bashar Assad must lead his country to democracy or "get out of the way," his most direct warning to the leader of a nation embroiled in violence. Obama said the Syrian government "has chosen the path of murder and the mass arrests of its citizens." He praised the Syrian people for their courage in standing up to repression in a bloody crackdown that has killed hundreds.

Obama said that while each country in the region is unique, there are shared values in the push for political change that will define the U.S. approach.

"Our message is simple: If you take the risks that reform entails, you will have the full support of the United States," he said.

The speech was in some ways notable for what Obama did not mention.

While critical of autocracy throughout the Mideast, he failed to mention the region's largest, richest and arguably most repressive nation, U.S. ally Saudi Arabia. Nor did he discuss Jordan, a staunch U.S. ally that has a peace deal with Israel. Also left out was the United Arab Emirates, the wealthy, pro-American collection of mini-states on the Persian Gulf. And he gave little attention to Iran, where U.S. attempts at outreach have gone nowhere.

The speech included somewhat tepid admonitions of U.S. allies Yemen and Bahrain. On Yemen, a key partner in the U.S. fight against al-Qaida, Obama called on President Ali Abdullah Saleh to "follow through on his commitment to transfer power." His language was stronger on Bahrain, home to the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet, where Obama said the only way forward is dialogue between the government and opposition, "and you can't have a real dialogue when parts of the peaceful opposition are in jail."

Obama announced economic incentives aimed at steering a region roiling in violence toward democratic change that lasts, though some would require congressional approval that might prove difficult to obtain.

Among the elements of his approach:

• The canceling of roughly $1 billion in debt for Egypt. The intention is that money freed from that debt obligation would be swapped toward investments in priority sectors of the Egyptian economy, likely to focus on entrepreneurship and employment for younger people. Unemployment rates are soaring in Egypt and across the region.

• The guaranteeing of up to $1 billion in borrowing for Egypt through the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, a U.S. government institution that mobilizes private capital.

• Promises by the U.S. to launch a new trade partnership in the Middle East and North Africa and to prod world financial institutions to help Egypt and Tunisia.

Donger
05-19-2011, 02:48 PM
"How can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist?" Obama asked. "In the weeks and months to come, Palestinian leaders will have to provide a credible answer to that question."

http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2011/01/bravo-bravo.gif

go bowe
05-19-2011, 03:32 PM
did the big o say anything about who would control jerusalem?

KC Dan
05-19-2011, 03:35 PM
did the big o say anything about who would control jerusalem?having spent time in Jerusalem, it will NEVER be controlled by anyone but Israel unless won in one hell of a war. NEVER. If anyone thinks otherwise and not been there, they haven't a clue of what they spew.

Bewbies
05-19-2011, 03:35 PM
did the big o say anything about who would control jerusalem?

Obama will make a speech and no action will be required because his words shall rule over all.

Tom_A_Hawk
05-19-2011, 04:23 PM
having spent time in Jerusalem, it will NEVER be controlled by anyone but Israel unless won in one hell of a war. NEVER. If anyone thinks otherwise and not been there, they haven't a clue of what they spew.



The people of Isreal laugh at Obama and his ignorance on the matter.
He has no jurisdicition and he isn't stupid enough to step in and try to mandate his suggestion.
No nation will survive in it's stand against Isreal.

"I (God) will bless those who bless you (Israel) and will curse those who curse you"

(Gen 12:3)

go bowe
05-19-2011, 04:24 PM
Obama will make a speech and no action will be required because his words shall rule over all.wow, if it were just that easy...

Calcountry
05-19-2011, 04:24 PM
did the big o say anything about who would control jerusalem?Why, I thought I heard that he ran Jerusalem and was planning to bb q some baby backs there.

go bowe
05-19-2011, 04:34 PM
having spent time in Jerusalem, it will NEVER be controlled by anyone but Israel unless won in one hell of a war. NEVER. If anyone thinks otherwise and not been there, they haven't a clue of what they spew.

i don't doubt that the jewish residents of the jerusalem area would never give up any part of the city and environs...

and i don't doubt that no right wing government would ever agree to it...

but it is possible that peace advocates could become a majority and vote in a more pragmatic government that could conceivably agree to a divided jerusalem in order to achieve peace, with guarantees of access to all holy sites...

not likely anytime soon, but conceivable...

more liberal israeli governments have in the past forcibly removed settlers who would never give up their settlements...

so it is possible despite the sentiments of jews living in jerusalem and the settlements nearby and the sentients of the right wing parties, some future israeli government could force them to accept a divided jerusalem...

again, not likely anytime soon, but possible based on past history...

mlyonsd
05-19-2011, 05:20 PM
On the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, the president cautioned that the recent power-sharing agreement between the mainstream Palestinian faction led by Mahmoud Abbas and the radical Hamas movement that rules Gaza "raises profound and legitimate" security questions for Israel. Netanyahu has refused to deal with a Palestinian government that includes Hamas.

"How can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist?" Obama asked. "In the weeks and months to come, Palestinian leaders will have to provide a credible answer to that question."

This is the key. I can understand Obama trying to move the process by declaring we would support the 67 borders if Hamas would recognize Israel. Interesting tactic, I'll give him credit for that.

If Hamas doesn't choose to do that Obama should publicly back down from the border statement. If Hamas doesn't and Obama doesn't back track he's left Israel no choice but to ignore us.

KC Dan
05-19-2011, 05:27 PM
i don't doubt that the jewish residents of the jerusalem area would never give up any part of the city and environs...

and i don't doubt that no right wing government would ever agree to it...

but it is possible that peace advocates could become a majority and vote in a more pragmatic government that could conceivably agree to a divided jerusalem in order to achieve peace, with guarantees of access to all holy sites...

not likely anytime soon, but conceivable...

more liberal israeli governments have in the past forcibly removed settlers who would never give up their settlements...

so it is possible despite the sentiments of jews living in jerusalem and the settlements nearby and the sentients of the right wing parties, some future israeli government could force them to accept a divided jerusalem...

again, not likely anytime soon, but possible based on past history...Not only are there Israelis living in Jerusalem but there are many government entites housed there as well as the first and largest Jewish University that people from all over the world come to and study at. Not to mention the historical sites, shopping districts and tourism revenue gained from Jerusalem. No, Israel will NEVER give up Jerusalem short of a major war defeat regardless of the political leanings of any future Israeli gov't.

HonestChieffan
05-19-2011, 05:28 PM
http://storyballoon.org/blog/2011/05/19/fmr-israeli-amb-1967-border-lines-leaves-israel-8-miles-wide/

Fmr. Israeli Amb: 1967 Border Lines Leaves Israel 8 Miles Wide......

Nice move by the liar in chief. What an embarrassment.

LiveSteam
05-19-2011, 05:42 PM
Obama can fuck off & die. Then get wrapped in pretty white sheets & dropped into the Atlantic. Obama is nothing more than another Jew hater on the block

Donger
05-19-2011, 05:43 PM
Didn't Israel already give back huge amounts of land taken during the 1967 war?

chiefqueen
05-19-2011, 05:44 PM
The people of Isreal laugh at Obama and his ignorance on the matter.
He has no jurisdicition and he isn't stupid enough to step in and try to mandate his suggestion.
No nation will survive in it's stand against Isreal.

"I (God) will bless those who bless you (Israel) and will curse those who curse you"

(Gen 12:3)

I have been thinking about that verse a lot since reading the news.

Pants
05-19-2011, 05:44 PM
Welp, it was nice knowing you Mr. Obama.

Donger
05-19-2011, 05:46 PM
By June 10, Israel had completed its final offensive in the Golan Heights, and a ceasefire was signed the day after. Israel had seized the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank of the Jordan River (including East Jerusalem), and the Golan Heights. Overall, Israel's territory grew by a factor of three, including about one million Arabs placed under Israel's direct control in the newly captured territories. Israel's strategic depth grew to at least 300 kilometers in the south, 60 kilometers in the east and 20 kilometers of extremely rugged terrain in the north, a security asset that would prove useful in the Yom Kippur War six years later.

On June 19, 1967, the National Unity Government [of Israel] voted unanimously to return the Sinai to Egypt and the Golan Heights to Syria in return for peace agreements. The Golans would have to be demilitarized and special arrangement would be negotiated for the Straits of Tiran. The government also resolved to open negotiations with King Hussein of Jordan regarding the Eastern border.

FD
05-19-2011, 05:49 PM
Reaction from the Economist magazine:

1967 and all that

BARACK OBAMA has spelled out his prescription for the partition of Palestine. "The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines," he says, "with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognised borders are established for both states."

That is not a departure from long-established American policy. The 1967 lines dividing Israel from the West Bank and from Gaza—once spurned by Israel's Abba Eban as "Auschwitz borders"—have always implicitly been Washington's point of departure for a negotiated two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But now, for the first time, the four digits have become formal American policy. Middle East cognoscenti were speculating furiously ahead of the president's speech at the State Department on Thursday over whether he would utter them or fudge.

Part of the speculation focused on Mr Obama's guest for lunch at the White House on Friday: Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel's prime minister. He has never accepted the principle that the Palestinian state should get 100% of the land taken by Israel in 1967. (Indeed, Mr Netanyahu's ostensible acceptance of the principle of a Palestinian state itself is so ringed about with riders and conditions that his critics at home and around the world question its sincerity.) The Israeli leader issued a tart response to the president's speech before emplaning for Washington on Thursday night.

Beyond the mention of 1967 and other detailed specifics earnestly being parsed by the experts, Mr Obama's speech was striking in that it deliberately embraced and articulated the key contentions advanced by the Israeli peace camp, now in opposition to the Netanyahu government. "The status quo is unsustainable… The fact is, a growing number of Palestinians live west of the Jordan River," the president said, sounding the "demographic warning" that Israeli moderates frequently cite as compelling grounds to end the occupation. "The dream of a Jewish and democratic state cannot be fulfilled with permanent occupation."

Mr Obama said he spoke out of deep friendship and firm commitment to Israel. "But precisely because of our friendship, it is important that we tell the truth."

Also significant beyond the specifics was the president's decision to embed this renewed effort to spur the Israel-Palestine process forward in the broader context of the "Arab spring". His speech surveyed the turbulent current events sweeping the region, country by country, and pledged that America would promote and support movements for reform. "After decades of accepting the world as it is in the region, we have a chance to pursue the world as it should be."

He placed Israel-Palestine squarely within that context, implicitly rejecting Mr Netanyahu's belief that the regional turmoil must dictate even more caution and conservatism on Israel's part. "There are those who argue that with all the change and uncertainty in the region, it is simply not possible to move forward," Mr Obama said. "I disagree. At a time when the people of the Middle East and North Africa are casting off the burdens of the past, the drive for a lasting peace that ends the conflict and resolves all claims is more urgent than ever."

Among the specifics that Mr Netanyahu will not have appreciated is the call for a "full and phased withdrawal of Israeli military forces…" Mr Netanayu wants Israeli troops to stay deployed along the Jordan River indefinitely.

Mr Netanyahu in his response said it was all very well for Mr Obama to recognise Israel as the Jewish people's homeland, but he wanted to hear it from the Palestinians.

He also wanted the president to rehearse the specific undertakings to Israel offered by George W Bush in 2004: that Israel would not be required to withdraw to the 1967 line, that the large settlement blocks would be annexed to Israel and that the Palestinian refugees would not return to the Jewish state.

Arguably, those positions—which, ironically, Mr Netanyahu dismissed at the time, as they were pledged to his political foe, Ariel Sharon—are enfolded within Mr Obama's reference to "swaps". But the fact is that Mr Obama, whose every word was reportedly sweated over and fought over by his many Middle East advisers, forbore to spell them out.

The president had some strong medicine for the Palestinian side too. He spoke against their intention to seek a declaration of statehood at the UN General Assembly in September. "Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won’t create an independent state," he declared. And he warned there would be no peace "if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection." The recent reconciliation agreement between the Fatah, led by Mahmoud Abbas, which rules on the West Bank, and the Islamist Hamas which rules over Gaza raised "profound and legitimate questions" for Israel, the president acknowledged. He demanded of the Palestinian leadership "credible answers".

Mr Obama seemed to offer new thinking on the way to resume long-stalled negotiations. Attack territory and security first, he proposed, leaving the other two "wrenching and emotional" core issues of conflict—Jerusalem and refugees—for a subsequent stage. "[M]oving forward now on the basis of territory and security provides a foundation to resolve those two issues in a way that is just and fair, and that respects the rights and aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians."

An optimistic tone rarely heard of late in the increasingly tense, increasing bleak arena of Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking. Does the president's speech presage a newly energetic sally by the administration into this thankless, daunting battlefield?

(Photo credit: AFP)

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/05/barack_obamas_speech_middle_east

Fishpicker
05-19-2011, 05:50 PM
this is a rare instance where I agree with Obama. It isn't realistic in the slightest though. Israel is going to do whatever it wants and that's all there is to it.

LiveSteam
05-19-2011, 05:51 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51o1ZwFgHxL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
great book.

LiveSteam
05-19-2011, 05:55 PM
this is a rare instance where I agree with Obama. It isn't realistic in the slightest though. Israel is going to do whatever it wants and that's all there is to it.

Just what in the past would ever make you think what Obama said would ever work in the future. PLO has just one answer for Israel.

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/H1sS1TmXF38" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Fishpicker
05-19-2011, 06:03 PM
^

this is a rare instance where I agree with Obama. It isn't realistic in the slightest though. Israel is going to do whatever it wants and that's all there is to it.

try to keep up

vailpass
05-19-2011, 06:06 PM
As POTUS obama is a pretty good community organizer.

LiveSteam
05-19-2011, 06:06 PM
http://www.advocate.com/uploadedImages/ADVOCATE/NEWS/2010/2010-05/2010-05-22/israel_flag.jpg
As POTUS obama is a pretty good community organizer.
http://libertyledger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/PLO-Flag.gif

LMAO

Bewbies
05-19-2011, 06:10 PM
I'm not worried about this--Obama is all about words and not about action. His speech today is supposed to be as miraculous as his speech in Cairo was. Peace is breaking out everywhere!

ClevelandBronco
05-19-2011, 06:30 PM
If Israel has any plan in place that would make it impossible for Pres. Obama to seek a second term, I would celebrate that plan's success.

vailpass
05-19-2011, 07:07 PM
If Israel has any plan in place that would make it impossible for Pres. Obama to seek a second term, I would celebrate that plan's success.

X100

LiveSteam
05-19-2011, 07:19 PM
X100
Can I be a copy cat?
X100

alnorth
05-19-2011, 07:24 PM
sounds like Obama basically spelled out, in black and white to the world, what our unofficial quiet backroom position has been for pretty much forever. 1967 borders, with some adjustments and horsetrading to account for today's reality, but if the Palestinians do not first recognize the right of Israel to exist, then no deal.

Every few years people bitch and gripe to us as if we are supposed to fix it, and every few years we say the same thing. Palestinians, do you believe Israel should exist? Israel, ready to give up some land? One or both sides inevitably say no, we shrug and walk away to wait for the next time when the world bitches at us to do or say something.

KC Dan
05-19-2011, 07:27 PM
Can I be a copy cat?
X100
Ok, since no one else has done it yet -

XEleventy Billion

ROYC75
05-19-2011, 08:53 PM
The people of Isreal laugh at Obama and his ignorance on the matter.
He has no jurisdicition and he isn't stupid enough to step in and try to mandate his suggestion.
No nation will survive in it's stand against Isreal.

"I (God) will bless those who bless you (Israel) and will curse those who curse you"

(Gen 12:3)



This ! What an embarrassment this guy is.

God help us. No wait, Obama is messing that up.

Brock
05-19-2011, 09:03 PM
The people of Isreal laugh at Obama and his ignorance on the matter.
He has no jurisdicition and he isn't stupid enough to step in and try to mandate his suggestion.
No nation will survive in it's stand against Isreal.

"I (God) will bless those who bless you (Israel) and will curse those who curse you"

(Gen 12:3)

LOL. Yeah, let's base foreign policy on a book from 5 thousand years ago! BRILLIANT

chasedude
05-19-2011, 09:24 PM
Does this mean the rest of the world goes back to 1967 prices too? Sweet! cheap gas again!

ROYC75
05-19-2011, 09:32 PM
Does this mean the rest of the world goes back to 1967 prices too? Sweet! cheap gas again!

Would be nice, say maybe 22 - 25 cents per gallon ? I recall in 1966 I paid .169 per gallon.

alnorth
05-19-2011, 10:08 PM
This ! What an embarrassment this guy is.

God help us. No wait, Obama is messing that up.

Obama, and Bush, and Clinton, and...

Obama isn't saying anything new. He's publicly articulating our vision for peace in Israel. If Israel doesn't want peace, fine. They can continue to defend themselves and do whatever the hell they want without any financial help from us, but if they want peace, this is what is demanded from them.

ClevelandBronco
05-19-2011, 10:10 PM
Obama, and Bush, and Clinton, and...

Obama isn't saying anything new. He's publicly articulating our vision for peace in Israel. If Israel doesn't want peace, fine. They can continue to defend themselves and do whatever the hell they want without any financial help from us, but if they want peace, this is what is demanded from them.

Demanded. :LOL:

alnorth
05-19-2011, 10:41 PM
Demanded. :LOL:

yes, demanded.

If the "demand" is weak and has no teeth in Israel's eyes, fine. Carry on, then. I dont wanna hear any more whining and crying about rockets flying into their cities, if they decide to become fortress Israel, let them defend themselves from the Middle-Eastern world without our help.

dirk digler
05-19-2011, 11:03 PM
If Israel has any plan in place that would make it impossible for Pres. Obama to seek a second term, I would celebrate that plan's success.

Are you suggesting or hoping that he would be killed?

go bowe
05-19-2011, 11:04 PM
yes, demanded.

If the "demand" is weak and has no teeth in Israel's eyes, fine. Carry on, then. I dont wanna hear any more whining and crying about rockets flying into their cities, if they decide to become fortress Israel, let them defend themselves from the Middle-Eastern world without our help.

interesting point of view with some undeniable appeal, but never gonna happen...

no matter how testy israel becomes, america will not abandon them...

of course if israel would accept a negotiated peace, there would no longer be any need to defend them from the other countries in the region...

ForeverChiefs58
05-19-2011, 11:29 PM
does anyone really think the palestinians will stop firing rockets? or terrorism?

That somehow they will all lay down their weapons, hold hands with jews and sing kum ba yah?

They will still plan attacks because that is all they know to do.

ClevelandBronco
05-19-2011, 11:30 PM
Are you suggesting or hoping that he would be killed?

Wouldn't it be pointless for me to suggest something like that? I'm just saying that if Israel has any plan in place that would make it impossible for Pres. Obama to seek a second term, I would celebrate that plan's success.

ForeverChiefs58
05-19-2011, 11:42 PM
Obama, and Bush, and Clinton, and...

Obama isn't saying anything new. He's publicly articulating our vision for peace in Israel. If Israel doesn't want peace, fine. They can continue to defend themselves and do whatever the hell they want without any financial help from us, but if they want peace, this is what is demanded from them.

yeah, cause it's israel that has a say in the palestinians hate for jews and calls for death. You don't think they want peace?
Show me the time that the palestinians have given peace a chance. Everytime israel has tried for peace they are met with suicide bomb or rocket attacks.
If anything he should now tell the palestinians to either recognize israel or the world won't be able to recognize palestine, or palestinian aid.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-19-2011, 11:45 PM
False Flags do not count.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-19-2011, 11:54 PM
The people of Isreal laugh at Obama and his ignorance on the matter.
He has no jurisdicition and he isn't stupid enough to step in and try to mandate his suggestion.
No nation will survive in it's stand against Isreal.

"I (God) will bless those who bless you (Israel) and will curse those who curse you"

(Gen 12:3)

Is this the same Israel?

alnorth
05-20-2011, 12:12 AM
does anyone really think the palestinians will stop firing rockets? or terrorism?

That somehow they will all lay down their weapons, hold hands with jews and sing kum ba yah?

They will still plan attacks because that is all they know to do.

If an independent state fires rockets into another independant state, it becomes a "holy crap, Mexico fired rockets into El Paso" situation.

That is an act of war, and Israel can feel free to declare war and go sick. Now, if the Palestinians do not renounce their official position that Israel shouldn't exist then a deal cant be had, but if things can work out, then you have two seperate countries and at that point Palestine no longer enjoys any special protection if they go nuts.

alnorth
05-20-2011, 12:15 AM
yeah, cause it's israel that has a say in the palestinians hate for jews and calls for death. You don't think they want peace?
Show me the time that the palestinians have given peace a chance. Everytime israel has tried for peace they are met with suicide bomb or rocket attacks.
If anything he should now tell the palestinians to either recognize israel or the world won't be able to recognize palestine, or palestinian aid.

They were willing to make a deal a year or two ago and Netanyahu shut them down. At that point, they went back into the arms of Hamas and status quo. Both sides aren't blameless, Israel was willing to agree to virtually any reasonable offer back in Clinton's time and that moron Arafat said no. Fortunately that old buzzard is now dead.

We cant seem to coordinate a time when both sides are ready to make a deal, its either one, the other, or neither. Never both.

FishingRod
05-20-2011, 08:16 AM
I’m sure Mexico would like us to give back California.

orange
05-20-2011, 09:14 AM
If Israel has any plan in place that would make it impossible for Pres. Obama to seek a second term, I would celebrate that plan's success.

X100

Can I be a copy cat?
X100

Ok, since no one else has done it yet -

XEleventy Billion

Likud to get a veto over American elections! The AIPAC position made plain. Thanks for the clarity.

Chiefshrink
05-20-2011, 09:17 AM
I’m sure Mexico would like us to give back California.

To the "victor go the spoils" "F Mexico":thumb:

FishingRod
05-20-2011, 09:20 AM
To the "victor go the spoils" "F Mexico":thumb:

Pretty much but does that somehow make us hypocritical

BucEyedPea
05-20-2011, 09:46 AM
To the "victor go the spoils" "F Mexico":thumb:
Few Questions:

1) Did Israel win WWI?
2) Who were England's ally in the ME, and thus ours, to help defeat the Ottoman Turks in the ME?
What were these native people promised by the Brits if they helped us win WWI?
3) The UN did the partition, so what war did the UN win?
4) Do you support this "victor" idea when it came to Stalin taking Eastern Europe or are you like Patton and think we should go after them for taking their share of the WWII spoils? This question is related to Question #2.

patteeu
05-20-2011, 10:29 AM
They were willing to make a deal a year or two ago and Netanyahu shut them down. At that point, they went back into the arms of Hamas and status quo. Both sides aren't blameless, Israel was willing to agree to virtually any reasonable offer back in Clinton's time and that moron Arafat said no. Fortunately that old buzzard is now dead.

We cant seem to coordinate a time when both sides are ready to make a deal, its either one, the other, or neither. Never both.

Please. The palestinians have never been willing to make a deal.

BucEyedPea
05-20-2011, 10:32 AM
That's why the original fight should have allowed both sides to fight until they were sick of the fighting whereby they'd negotiate their own deal that suited them best or until there was a clear victor. Either of these would have produced a lasting peace. Instead the West entered into it, via the UN, and it has never ended.

patteeu
05-20-2011, 10:51 AM
That's why the original fight should have allowed both sides to fight until they were sick of the fighting whereby they'd negotiate their own deal that suited them best or until there was a clear victor. Either of these would have produced a lasting peace. Instead the West entered into it, via the UN, and it has never ended.

Agree

ClevelandBronco
05-20-2011, 11:07 AM
Likud to get a veto over American elections! The AIPAC position made plain. Thanks for the clarity.

No sweat. At this point I don't care who or what ends this presidency.

vailpass
05-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Likud to get a veto over American elections! The AIPAC position made plain. Thanks for the clarity.

Whatever gets that uppity prick out of our White House.

vailpass
05-20-2011, 02:44 PM
Hey Forward Dante-
Do you care to explain why you sent me a neg rep with the word "racist" attached in response to my above post?

ClevelandBronco
05-20-2011, 02:52 PM
Hey Forward Dante-
Do you care to explain why you sent me a neg rep with the word "racist" attached in response to my above post?

I didn't get neg rep for basically welcoming whatever misfortune might be inflicted on the uppity asshole, so I'm not sure why you're being targeted.

vailpass
05-20-2011, 02:56 PM
I didn't get neg rep for basically welcoming whatever misfortune might be inflicted on the uppity asshole, so I'm not sure why you're being targeted.

Speaking out against the uppity president is apparently racist. The card obama supporters have played from day one.

I gues that means I can't talk about his fat-assed sasquatch of a wife either?

FD
05-20-2011, 03:24 PM
Hey Forward Dante-
Do you care to explain why you sent me a neg rep with the word "racist" attached in response to my above post?

If you really don't understand, then my apologies, instead of "racist" it should say "stupid dumbass."

dirk digler
05-20-2011, 03:26 PM
I didn't get neg rep for basically welcoming whatever misfortune might be inflicted on the uppity asshole, so I'm not sure why you're being targeted.

You are lucky my name isn't vailpass or I would have told your mom on you and get you banned

orange
05-20-2011, 03:27 PM
Hey Forward Dante-
Do you care to explain why you sent me a neg rep with the word "racist" attached in response to my above post?

I bet it was from the dog whistle you just can't refrain from blowing. I'll give you credit - at least you have more self-restraint than shtsprayer. Still, just because the host leaves it unlocked doesn't mean you're required to loot the medicine cabinet.

LiveSteam
05-20-2011, 03:29 PM
If you really don't understand, then my apologies, instead of "racist" it should say "stupid dumbass."

This from a man in Texas LMAO

ClevelandBronco
05-20-2011, 03:29 PM
You are lucky my name isn't vailpass or I would have told your mom on you and get you banned

I don't get it.

ClevelandBronco
05-20-2011, 03:31 PM
This from a man in Texas LMAO

Man? I doubt it. Could be a boy, though.

vailpass
05-20-2011, 03:32 PM
If you really don't understand, then my apologies, instead of "racist" it should say "stupid dumbass."

You either have a factual basis for your accusation or you made a false accusation. Which is it?

vailpass
05-20-2011, 03:34 PM
I bet it was from the dog whistle you just can't refrain from blowing. I'll give you credit - at least you have more self-restraint than shtsprayer. Still, just because the host leaves it unlocked doesn't mean you're required to loot the medicine cabinet.

Dogwhistle? Is that a michelle obama reference?

just because the host leaves it unlocked doesn't mean you're required to loot the medicine cabinet
WTF are you talking about?

dirk digler
05-20-2011, 03:35 PM
I don't get it.

I am just giving vail a hard time. He tattle taled on jenson and he got banned

orange
05-20-2011, 03:37 PM
just because the host leaves it unlocked doesn't mean you're required to loot the medicine cabinet
WTF are you talking about?

I'm talking about DaFace letting you get away with it because he just doesn't want to be bothered with your petty shit.

vailpass
05-20-2011, 03:37 PM
I am just giving vail a hard time. He tattle taled on jenson and he got banned

I was one of many who reported the n-word. I was the only one who admitted having done so. I've never reported anyone before or since to the best of my recollection. I asked that the word be removed but Jenson not be banned. I'd do it again. Your mother's over-sized labia flap like batwings every time I smack her ass.

ClevelandBronco
05-20-2011, 03:39 PM
I am just giving vail a hard time. He tattle taled on jenson and he got banned

Thanks. Up to speed. Off for an afternoon cup of coffee. I must be sagging.

BTW: Did I do something reportable?

vailpass
05-20-2011, 03:41 PM
I'm talking about DaFace letting you get away with it because he just doesn't want to be bothered with your petty shit.

Could you be any more of a nut-job? If you have something specific you wish to bring up then by all means do so.

If you have nothing specific but instead wish to make things up because I don't like that empty-suit puppet obama then feel free to be butt-hurt but cease the false accusations.

KC native
05-20-2011, 03:41 PM
If you really don't understand, then my apologies, instead of "racist" it should say "stupid dumbass."

No, racist is an apt description.

vailpass
05-20-2011, 03:43 PM
No, racist is an apt description.

Pro tip Dante: if KC Illegal is on your side you need to REALLY examine what side you are on.

ClevelandBronco
05-20-2011, 03:43 PM
Oh, cool. The inferiority posse returns.

dirk digler
05-20-2011, 03:43 PM
I was one of many who reported the n-word. I was the only one who admitted having done so. I've never reported anyone before or since to the best of my recollection. I asked that the word be removed but Jenson not be banned. I'd do it again. Your mother's over-sized labia flap like batwings every time I smack her ass.

That is why I said I was giving you a hard time..geez. Wash the sand out of your gaping vagina

dirk digler
05-20-2011, 03:44 PM
Thanks. Up to speed. Off for an afternoon cup of coffee. I must be sagging.

BTW: Did I do something reportable?

I called the Secret Service

vailpass
05-20-2011, 03:45 PM
That is why I said I was giving you a hard time..geez. Wash the sand out of your gaping vagina

I'm a little torn about having reported that. Sorry to stink up the place with my flapping hatchet wound.

dirk digler
05-20-2011, 03:47 PM
I'm a little torn about having reported that. Sorry to stink up the place with my flapping hatchet wound.

It does stink I can smell it all the way over to Missouri :p

patteeu
05-20-2011, 05:00 PM
I am just giving vail a hard time. He tattle taled on jenson and he got banned

DaFace said that he was already in the process of cleaning up Jenson's mess when he got Vail's message.

patteeu
05-20-2011, 05:01 PM
No, racist is an apt description.

Why?

Detoxing
05-20-2011, 05:17 PM
THE RAPTURE STARTS TONIGHT!!!

mlyonsd
05-20-2011, 09:13 PM
No, racist is an apt description.Good grief.

alnorth
05-20-2011, 09:45 PM
If you really don't understand, then my apologies, instead of "racist" it should say "stupid dumbass."

Agreed. It struck me as a bit racist too.

Direckshun
05-20-2011, 10:21 PM
This thread is full of crazy.

Alnorth pretty much ended it at 35 and 37, though.

The selective outrage is hysterical. There is nothing Drudge and Fox News can't gin up their base for.

ClevelandBronco
05-20-2011, 10:57 PM
This thread is full of crazy.

Alnorth pretty much ended it at 35 and 37, though.

The selective outrage is hysterical. There is nothing Drudge and Fox News can't gin up their base for.

alnorth couldn't end a piss on his own shoes.

Direckshun
05-20-2011, 11:05 PM
alnorth couldn't end a piss on his own shoes.

Alnorth ended your mother last night.

Ugly Duck
05-21-2011, 02:27 AM
If Israel has any plan in place that would make it impossible for Pres. Obama to seek a second term, I would celebrate that plan's success.

Can you at least give him credit for suggesting the 1967 lines as a basis for negotiations instead of his old position of the 1949 Armistice Lines? Remember when he said "Any final status agreement must be reached between the two parties, and changes to the 1949 Armistice Lines must be mutually agreed to." Can you at least admit that his old position was even worse?

Direckshun
05-21-2011, 03:00 AM
Cleveland Bronco will continue buying the Big Lie that his words on the 1967 lines is a dramatic change of pace, and is the first step to Teh Destruction of Teh Israel.

stevieray
05-21-2011, 12:16 PM
This thread is full of crazy.



...not until you show up.

ClevelandBronco
05-21-2011, 12:23 PM
Settle down Disfuncshun. I don't want to see you dead.

Calcountry
05-21-2011, 12:27 PM
Didn't Israel already give back huge amounts of land taken during the 1967 war?Look closely at my avatar. I told you so.

Ugly Duck
05-21-2011, 08:48 PM
Can you at least give him credit for suggesting the 1967 lines as a basis for negotiations instead of his old position of the 1949 Armistice Lines? Remember when he said "Any final status agreement must be reached between the two parties, and changes to the 1949 Armistice Lines must be mutually agreed to." Can you at least admit that his old position was even worse?


I've made a terrible mistake... my bad. It wasn't President Obama that said negotiations should be based on the 1949 lines - it was George Bush! Republican President George Bush was the guy with the Israeli policy more radical than President Obama's. Interesting that the very same righties that are now freaking about Obama's 1967 lines are exactly the ones that praised Bush for promoting the 1949 lines. Its almost as if its not the policies that bother them, but the man who sets the policy. Maybe I'm wrong about that - maybe the DC righties will now start slamming Bush as an Israeli-hating monster... now that they know what Bush's policy was.

mlyonsd
05-21-2011, 08:59 PM
I've made a terrible mistake... my bad. It wasn't President Obama that said negotiations should be based on the 1949 lines - it was George Bush! Republican President George Bush was the guy with the Israeli policy more radical than President Obama's. Interesting that the very same righties that are now freaking about Obama's 1967 lines are exactly the ones that praised Bush for promoting the 1949 lines. Its almost as if its not the policies that bother them, but the man who sets the policy. Maybe I'm wrong about that - maybe the DC righties will now start slamming Bush as an Israeli-hating monster... now that they know what Bush's policy was.I'll give you credit for being from the left and able to point out Obama is once again following another Bush foreign policy direction. It's almost like they're long lost brothers or something. Wierd.

It makes you wonder what Obama would have done without his big brother George leading the way, doesn't it?

mlyonsd
05-21-2011, 09:05 PM
I find it quite hysterical UD uses Bush quotes to justify an Obama position. You really can't make chit like that up.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-21-2011, 09:16 PM
I've made a terrible mistake... my bad. It wasn't President Obama that said negotiations should be based on the 1949 lines - it was George Bush! Republican President George Bush was the guy with the Israeli policy more radical than President Obama's. Interesting that the very same righties that are now freaking about Obama's 1967 lines are exactly the ones that praised Bush for promoting the 1949 lines. Its almost as if its not the policies that bother them, but the man who sets the policy. Maybe I'm wrong about that - maybe the DC righties will now start slamming Bush as an Israeli-hating monster... now that they know what Bush's policy was.

Both are incompetent morons that should have been kept away from the white house. That being said I hope Obama does something to bring peace to the ME, i'm afraid it's just more hot air though.

Mr. Kotter
05-22-2011, 01:05 AM
Dang it, it's May 22nd, the doom-sayers were "off".....just sayin'...heh. LMAO

Direckshun
05-22-2011, 01:45 AM
Settle down Disfuncshun. I don't want to see you dead.

That's the sweetest thing you've ever said to me.

The Mad Crapper
05-22-2011, 10:41 AM
Dang it, it's May 22nd, the doom-sayers were "off".....just sayin'...heh. LMAO

How many more fucking times are you going to post this? It wasn't funny the first time.

go bowe
05-22-2011, 02:34 PM
How many more fucking times are you going to post this? It wasn't funny the first time.

are we dead yet?

The Mad Crapper
05-22-2011, 04:13 PM
allegedly educated professional yet obviously disturbed people here repeatedly defending Islamic sociopathy in the name of what, exactly?

1948 caused a major refugee crisis. equal numbers of Jewish and Pali refugees were displaced. The Jewish Refugees from Arab countries were absorbed into Israel. The Arab refugees were not absorbed in to the countries they fled to. Now their grandchildren continue to sit in 70 year old refugee camps waiting for a fictional return that will absolutely never happen.

patteeu
05-22-2011, 06:20 PM
How many more ****ing times are you going to post this? It wasn't funny the first time.

Give Kotter a break. He's been drinking since he heard that the end was near and he's just excited that the news was wrong. On the other hand, maybe the rapture took place and reading his repetitious posts is a part of the tribulation for those of us left behind.

ForeverChiefs58
05-22-2011, 07:24 PM
Lest's see what history tells us
Timeline: Terror Attacks by Hamas Since Israel’s 2005 Gaza Withdrawal


In August 2005, Israel voluntarily evacuated all of the roughly 9,000 Israelis living in Gaza and handed control of Gaza over to the Palestinian Authority (P.A.). Israel had hoped that doing so would pave the way for an independent Palestinian state. Instead, Iran-backed Hamas has used Gaza as a launching pad for attacking Israel with thousands of rockets, missiles, and mortars.

Hamas seized control of Gaza in June 2007 in a bloody internecine battle against P.A. President Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah Party. In addition to the rocket and mortar attacks, Hamas – with the help of Iran – has carried out numerous deadly attacks on Israelis in Israel and near the border with Gaza.

In 2008, Iran helped Hamas upgrade its mortar supplyfor attacks on Israeli communities bordering Gaza. Hamas operatives undergo training in tactical warfare and weapons operation. They acquire skills for launching rockets, detonating improvised explosive devices, sniper tactics, and other terrorist and guerrilla warfare techniques, similar to those commonly used by Iran-backed Hezbollah.

In a renewed burst of violence at the end of 2008, Palestinian terror groups in Gaza fired hundreds of rockets and mortars at Israeli cities and towns for several weeks, prompting Israel to launch a defensive operation against Hamas in Gaza from December 2008-January 2009. Since the month-long operation, the number of Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks against Israel has fallen dramatically.

Timeline of terror attacks perpetrated by Hamas since Aug. 2005

Sept. 21, 2005: Sasson Nuriel, 55, of Jerusalem was kidnapped and murdered by Palestinian terrorists. His body was found on Sept. 26 in a garbage dump in the industrial zone of Bitunya, west of Ramallah.

Sept. 12, 2006: An IDF reserve Bedouin tracker was killed by sniper fire during an army operation to uncover terror infrastructure in the Gaza Strip, near the Kissufim Crossing. Both Hamas and the Popular Resistance Committees claimed responsibility for the shooting.

March 19, 2007: Kobi Ohion, 42, an employee of the Israel Electric Corporation, was shot and wounded while repairing infrastructure at a fuel depot on the Israeli side of the border, north of the Karni commercial crossing between Israel and the Gaza Strip.

July 12, 2007: Staff Sgt. Arbel Raich, 21, was killed when his unit was attacked near the al-Bureij refugee camp during a counter-terrorist operation in central Gaza. Two additional soldiers were wounded. Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum praised the killing.

Aug. 21, 2007: Hamas claimed responsibility for the firing of 25 mortar shells at Gaza-Israeli border crossings. Five mortar shells were fired at the Kerem Shalom crossing; 12 landed east of the Kissufim military post.

Dec. 11, 2007: In the southern Gaza Strip, terrorists fired at IDF forces and launched anti-tank missiles (two soldiers were injured); the Israeli Air Force attacked a Hamas position in the central Gaza Strip (three Hamas operatives were killed); and, in response to mortar fire on Kibbutz Nahal Oz, IDF forces attacked a terrorist squad in the northern Gaza Strip.

Jan. 15-28, 2008: 170 rockets and 83 mortars were launched from Gaza into Israel’s western Negev.

Feb. 4, 2008: Two suicide bombers wearing explosive belts reached the city of Dimona. One blew himself up, killing one woman and wounding 10 others. The other suicide bomber was killed by a police officer before he could detonate his belt. Although many terrorist organizations claimed responsibility for the attack, it was apparently carried out by a Hamas squad based in Hebron.

Feb. 8, 2008: Hamas claimed responsibility for rockets that targeted the power station in Ashkelon, which provides the Gaza Strip with most of its electricity (Al-Qassam website, Feb. 8).

Feb. 27, 2008: The Israeli Air Force killed five Iran-trained Hamas operatives as they planned a major terrorist attack. Hamas then fired a barrage of 50 rockets targeting western Negev towns and villages.

Feb. 28, 2008: Another 20 rockets were launched, most of them landing in and around Sderot. One hit the parking lot of Sapir College on the outskirts of Sderot, killing Roni Yihye, a 47-year-old student and father of four.

Feb. 29, 2008: A 3-year-old Arab girl was killed when a rocket launched by Hamas terrorists fell short and struck near the girl’s house in the Gaza town of Beit Hanoun.

March 2, 2008: Hamas fired a long-range Grad missile—imported from Iran— into the city of Ashkelon, more than 16 km from Gaza. Militants fired 20 more Iranian-made Grad missiles later that day.

May 23, 2008: Two rockets were fired at Sderot.

June 5, 2008: Amnon Rosenberg, 51, of Kibbutz Nirim was killed and four co-workers were wounded when a 120-mm mortar bomb exploded outside the Nirlat paint factory in Kibbutz Nir-Oz, southwest of Sderot.

June 12, 2008: Falsely blaming Israel for an explosion that occurred in a Gaza residential building earlier in the day, Hamas launched three Grad (Kaytusha) rockets, 18 Kassam rockets and 22 mortars at Israel. As a result of the Hamas fire, a 59-year-old Israeli woman was wounded at Kibbutz Yad Mordechai, as was a Palestinian man at Gaza’s Erez crossing.

June 16, 2008: One man was wounded when a Grad-type rocket fired from the Gaza Strip landed in the Old Muslim Cemetery near Ashkelon’s city market. Several other people suffered from shock. Another rocket exploded inside the city. Gaza's Hamas rulers took responsibility for the strike.

November- December 2008: In a renewed burst of violence, Hamas and affiliated Palestinian terrorist groups fired 190 rockets and 138 mortar shells into Israel Nov. 4 – Dec. 16.

December 2008: Rocket fire from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip intensified, with dozens of rockets hitting Israel daily, prompting Israel to launch a defensive operation on Hamas in Gaza that began December 27.

Dec. 27, 2008: A 58-year-old resident in the Israeli town of Netivot was killed when a rocket fired from Gaza hit an apartment.

Dec. 29, 2008: Hani al-Mahdi, 27, of Aroar, a Bedouin settlement in the Negev, was killed when a Grad-type rocket fired from Gaza exploded at a construction site in Ashkelon; 16 other workers were wounded. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec. 29, 2008: A 39-year-old woman, Irit Sheetrit, of Ashdod was killed and several others wounded when a Grad rocket exploded in the center of Ashdod. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec. 29, 2008: Warrant Officer Lutfi Nasraladin, 38, a resident of the Druze town of Daliat el-Carmel was killed by a mortar attack on a military base near Nahal Oz.

The following attacks were carried out by a variety of Gaza-based terror groups and in some cases, Hamas (specifically the attacks on March 26, 2010 and Aug. 5, 2010) following Israel’s defensive operation in Gaza December 2008-January 2009. Israel holds Hamas responsible as the governing authority of the Gaza Strip.

Feb.1, 2009: About a dozen rockets and mortar bombs fired from Gaza struck Israel, wounding three Israelis.

Feb. 3, 2009: A Grad rocket was launched at the city of Ashkelon.

Feb. 28, 2009: An advanced Grad rocket hit a school in Ashkelon, destroying classrooms and spraying pieces of shrapnel in all directions. Two civilians were wounded in the attack.

March 1, 2009: Twelve Qassam rockets were fired at the Israeli city of Sderot from Gaza. One rocket landed next to a private residence, causing property damage.

May 19, 2009: a Kassam rocket exploded outside a Sderot home, causing damage and bringing to almost 685 the number of rockets and mortars that hit Israel since the beginning of 2009.

May 22, 2009: Two armed Palestinian gunmen were killed after trying to plant explosives near Gaza’s security fence north of the Kerem Shalom Crossing. An IDF force crossed the fence and fired at the gunmen, who also began firing. The gunmen were killed, and IDF forces found explosive devices on the bodies as well as two AK-47 rifles, hand grenades and military vests.

June 8, 2009: A group of Palestinian gunmen opened fire at an IDF force patrolling the Israeli side of Gaza’s security fence, north of the Nahal Oz fuel terminal.

Sept. 20, 2009: IDF soldiers killed two Palestinian gunmen planting explosives along Gaza’s security fence. Approximately 715 Kassam rockets, mortar shells and Grad rockets were fired at Israel since the beginning of 2009.

March 18, 2010: A 34-year-old Thai foreign worker was killed when a Kassam rocket hit an area in Netiv Ha'asara, a moshav in the Ashkelon coastal region that lies north of the Gaza Strip.

March 26, 2010: Maj. Eliraz Peretz, 32, of Eli and Staff. Sgt. Ilan Sviatkovsky, 21, of Rishon Lezion were killed in an exchange of fire with terrorists planting explosives along the security fence in southern Gaza. Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

June 14, 2010: An Israeli police officer was shot dead in the West Bank and two others were wounded in the first fatal shooting attack on Israeli security in the area in more than a year. In July, Israeli security officials said they had arrested several members of Hamas’s military wing who were responsible for the attack.

July 30, 2010: A Grad rocket fired from Gaza landed in the city of Ashkelon, damaging a building.

Aug. 31, 2010: Palestinian terrorists opened fire on an Israeli car in the West Bank, killing four passengers on the eve of a new round of a peace talks. Hamas took responsibility for the attack, which occurred near Hebron.

Terrorist training camps in Iran (partial list):

1) Imam Ali Training Garrison, Tehran
2) Bahonar Garrison, near the dam of Karaj
3) Qom’s Ali-Abad Garrison, Tehran-Qom Highway
4) Mostafa Khomeini Garrison, Tehran
5) Crate Camp Garrison, 40 km from the Ahwaz-Mahshar Highway
6) Fateh Qani-Hosseini Garrison, between Tehran and Qom
7) Qayour Asli Garrison, 30 km from Ahwaz-Khorramshahr Highway
8) Abouzar Garrison, Qaleh-Shahin district, Ahwaz, Khuzestan province

9) Hezbollah Garrison, east of Tehran
10) Eezeh Training Garrison

11) Amir-ol-Momenin Garrison, Ilam province

12) Kothar Training Garrison, Khuzestan province

13) Imam Sadeq Garrison, Qom
14) Lavizan Training Centre, northeast Tehran
15) Abyek Training Centre, west of Tehran
16) Dervish Training Centre, 18 km from the Ahwaz-Mahshar Highway
17) Qazanchi Training Centre, Ravansar-Kermanshah-Kamyaran tri-junction

18) Beit-ol-Moqaddas University, Qom
19) Navab Safavi School, Ahwaz
20) Nahavand Training Centre, 45 km from Nahavand, western Iran

http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.4465801/k.972/Timeline_Terror_Attacks_by_Hamas_Since_Israel8217s_Gaza_Withdrawal.htm

go bowe
05-22-2011, 07:54 PM
around 40 attacks in 5 years?

and most of them didn't kill more than one person, if that...

mostly it was rockets and such hitting nothing in the desert with no damage and no injuries...

i was surprised that there were so few attacks with so little loss of life...

five years?

i would have expected 1,000 or more...

not that it's good or anything, just not as bad as i thought....

ForeverChiefs58
05-22-2011, 10:13 PM
around 40 attacks in 5 years?

and most of them didn't kill more than one person, if that...

mostly it was rockets and such hitting nothing in the desert with no damage and no injuries...

i was surprised that there were so few attacks with so little loss of life...

five years?

i would have expected 1,000 or more...

not that it's good or anything, just not as bad as i thought....


The title says from hamas
Sept. 20, 2009: IDF soldiers killed two Palestinian gunmen planting explosives along Gaza’s security fence. Approximately 715 Kassam rockets, mortar shells and Grad rockets were fired at Israel since the beginning of 2009.

go bowe
05-22-2011, 10:59 PM
The title says from hamas
Sept. 20, 2009: IDF soldiers killed two Palestinian gunmen planting explosives along Gaza’s security fence. Approximately 715 Kassam rockets, mortar shells and Grad rockets were fired at Israel since the beginning of 2009.

yeah, i saw that a shitton of rockets, missiles and mortars have been fired at israel, hence my comment mostly it was rockets and such hitting nothing in the desert with no damage and no injuries..

Ugly Duck
05-22-2011, 11:04 PM
Both are incompetent morons that should have been kept away from the white house.

Kudos for having the enough honesty to admit that Obama did not exhibit any more Jew-hating anti-Semitism than any of the other recent presidents. Makes the rest of the DC righties seem rather cowardly & hypocritical, eh?

KILLER_CLOWN
05-22-2011, 11:19 PM
Kudos for having the enough honesty to admit that Obama did not exhibit any more Jew-hating anti-Semitism than any of the other recent presidents. Makes the rest of the DC righties seem rather cowardly & hypocritical, eh?

I am neither Right nor Left, and no i definitely do not see Obama as a Jew hater. A liar yes, but that seems to be a prerequisite to occupy the White House.

ForeverChiefs58
05-22-2011, 11:27 PM
yeah, i saw that a shitton of rockets, missiles and mortars have been fired at israel, hence my comment

the main thing behind the rockets is the psychological toll it takes on people. Over 700 in one year is a lot when you think each rocket fired sets a chaotic scene with warning sirens going off and people scramble for shelter for each rocket fired. Just because it lands in a yard and misses people, doesn't mean it didn't greatly affect everyone's day. Nobody knows where they will land when they are fired and everyone has to hurry for cover. It holds the people hostage until there is nothing left to do until someone makes them stop.

ForeverChiefs58
05-22-2011, 11:32 PM
around 40 attacks in 5 years?

and most of them didn't kill more than one person, if that...

mostly it was rockets and such hitting nothing in the desert with no damage and no injuries...

i was surprised that there were so few attacks with so little loss of life...

five years?

i would have expected 1,000 or more...

not that it's good or anything, just not as bad as i thought....

that's because the article lists attacks just from hamas. If it was from all groups it would be much longer.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-23-2011, 01:52 AM
Ron Paul Responds to President Obama’s Middle East Speech
Submitted by tajitj on Fri, 05/20/2011 - 23:55


LAKE JACKSON, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Ron Paul, a twelve-term U.S. congressman, member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and 2012 Republican Presidential Candidate, remarked on President Obama’s speech earlier today about the United States’ Middle East policy. Please see the statement below.

“The President gave a speech today about our foreign policy in the Middle East, and once again this administration has proven that it does not understand a proper foreign policy for America. When will our leaders finally do what’s right for America and rethink this irrational approach we’ve followed for far too long?

“Israel is our close friend. While President Obama’s demand that Israel make hard concessions in her border conflicts may very well be in her long-term interest, only Israel can make that determination on her own, without pressure from the United States or coercion by the United Nations.

“Unlike this President, I do not believe it is our place to dictate how Israel runs her affairs. There can only be peace in the region if those sides work out their differences among one another. We should respect Israel’s sovereignty and not try to dictate her policy from Washington.

“The President also defended his unconstitutional intervention in Libya, authorized not by the United States Congress but by the United Nations, and announced new plans to pressure Syria and force the leader of that country to step down.

“Our military is already dangerously extended, and this administration wants to expand our involvement. When will our bombing in Libya end? Is President Obama seriously considering military action against Syria? We are facing $2 trillion dollar deficits, and the American taxpayer cannot afford any of it.

“Our military’s purpose is to defend our country, not to police the Middle East.

“As the President prepares to send even more support to Egypt, we should be reminded that it was our foreign aid that helped Mubarak retain power to repress his people in the first place. Now we have to deal with the consequences of those decisions, yet we keep repeating the same mistakes.

“I am not the only one who can see the absurdities of our foreign policy. We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her enemies. Most Americans know that makes no sense.

“We need to come to our senses, trade with our friends in the Middle East (both Arab and Israeli), clean up our own economic mess so we set a good example, and allow them to work out their own conflicts.”

Contacts

LIBERTY PAC
Gary Howard, 1-800-RON-PAUL

http://dailypaul.com/165309/ron-paul-responds-to-president-obama-s-middle-east-speech

Ugly Duck
05-23-2011, 06:17 AM
Obama urges Israel to go back to 1967 borders

No, he did not.

KC native
05-23-2011, 10:44 AM
allegedly educated professional yet obviously disturbed people here repeatedly defending Islamic sociopathy in the name of what, exactly?

1948 caused a major refugee crisis. equal numbers of Jewish and Pali refugees were displaced. The Jewish Refugees from Arab countries were absorbed into Israel. The Arab refugees were not absorbed in to the countries they fled to. Now their grandchildren continue to sit in 70 year old refugee camps waiting for a fictional return that will absolutely never happen.

ROFL banned again?

go bowe
05-23-2011, 02:26 PM
the main thing behind the rockets is the psychological toll it takes on people. Over 700 in one year is a lot when you think each rocket fired sets a chaotic scene with warning sirens going off and people scramble for shelter for each rocket fired. Just because it lands in a yard and misses people, doesn't mean it didn't greatly affect everyone's day. Nobody knows where they will land when they are fired and everyone has to hurry for cover. It holds the people hostage until there is nothing left to do until someone makes them stop.

i hadn't considered that, good point...

mlyonsd
05-23-2011, 02:29 PM
i hadn't considered that, good point...

If that were happening to us we would have annihilated or vaporized the perps by now.

Israel has show greater patience than any other country in the world would.

Easy 6
05-23-2011, 02:32 PM
Trying to re-start the peace process there is a complete waste of time until the Palestinians have one leader that can speak for all.

Abbas is utterly toothless, to even call him a figurehead would be going too far.

go bowe
05-23-2011, 02:34 PM
that's because the article lists attacks just from hamas. If it was from all groups it would be much longer.

still, it seems like a very low number of attacks compared to what is portrayed in the media and what one might expect given the history and level of hatred involved...

zero attacks would be better, obviously...

go bowe
05-23-2011, 02:42 PM
If that were happening to us we would have annihilated or vaporized the perps by now.

Israel has show greater patience than any other country in the world would.
that may be, but if israel could stop the rocket attacks, it would have done so a long time ago...

given the same conditions on the ground, we would be hard-pressed to stop such hit and run attacks by small groups that can run away after shooting a few mortar rounds or a rocket...

such tactics are difficult to deal with, as we have discovered in iraq and afghanistan over the past 10 years...

no, it is more a matter of being unable to stop it versus having "patience"...

go bowe
05-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Trying to re-start the peace process there is a complete waste of time until the Palestinians have one leader that can speak for all.

Abbas is utterly toothless, to even call him a figurehead would be going too far.
toothless and in big trouble politically...

his chief negotiator had to resign after his staff leaked papers to al jazeera from meetings and communications between israel, the us, and the pa...

according to what is called the palestine papers, the pa negotiator was willing to basically give up the right of return by having a small token number of refugees return to israel proper and the rest stay in the arab countries they are in now...

he was also willing to compromise on jerusalem, ceding the jewish quarter in the old city in east jerusalem and making the temple mount a kind of international open city, if you will, thus guaranteeing access to both israelis and palestinians...

mlyonsd
05-23-2011, 03:04 PM
that may be, but if israel could stop the rocket attacks, it would have done so a long time ago...

given the same conditions on the ground, we would be hard-pressed to stop such hit and run attacks by small groups that can run away after shooting a few mortar rounds or a rocket...

such tactics are difficult to deal with, as we have discovered in iraq and afghanistan over the past 10 years...

no, it is more a matter of being unable to stop it versus having "patience"...

I think you under estimate the capabilities of both us and the Israelis. In our case it would be screw the collateral damage.

go bowe
05-23-2011, 03:11 PM
I think you under estimate the capabilities of both us and the Israelis. In our case it would be screw the collateral damage.

to successfully attack a hit and run rocket squad you'd have to level huge swaths of urban territory...

way way beyond "collateral damage"...

even smart weapons are useless if you can't find the attackers...

no, i think if israel could stop the rocket attacks, it would have done so already, patience or no...

RedNeckRaider
05-23-2011, 03:18 PM
to successfully attack a hit and run rocket squad you'd have to level huge swaths of urban territory...

way way beyond "collateral damage"...

even smart weapons are useless if you can't find the attackers...

no, i think if israel could stop the rocket attacks, it would have done so already, patience or no...

I think we have tried to hold Israel on a leash for years. If they feel betrayed and go all in I would not want to be Hamas, Palestine or Iran for that matter. In fact it would most likely be the end of the world as we know it~

mlyonsd
05-23-2011, 03:23 PM
to successfully attack a hit and run rocket squad you'd have to level huge swaths of urban territory...

way way beyond "collateral damage"...

even smart weapons are useless if you can't find the attackers...

no, i think if israel could stop the rocket attacks, it would have done so already, patience or no...They have the military to wipe out and hold enough territory to stop the attacks. We would.

go bowe
05-23-2011, 03:25 PM
I think we have tried to hold Israel on a leash for years. If they feel betrayed and go all in I would not want to be Hamas, Palestine or Iran for that matter. In fact it would most likely be the end of the world as we know it~

i dunno...

bibi is a right wing nut, but he's not suicidal...

it would take nuclear weapons to destroy iran, and that would invite a retaliatory strike by somebody (which is what i think you are saying)...

i think in a very real sense that israel has gone all in as it can trying to stop the rocket attacks, with wars in lebanon and gaza and continuing attacks on gaza...

while their efforts may have reduced the number of attacks, it obviously hasn't stopped them...

go bowe
05-23-2011, 03:32 PM
They have the military to wipe out and hold enough territory to stop the attacks. We would.didn't israel try that with the last war in gaza?

and how exactly do you go about wiping out more than a million people?

as far as us, sure we could take and hold enough territory to put those kinds of rockets out of range, but as we have learned the hard way, that approach significantly reduces guerrilla attacks but can never stop them...

RedNeckRaider
05-23-2011, 03:46 PM
i dunno...

bibi is a right wing nut, but he's not suicidal...

it would take nuclear weapons to destroy iran, and that would invite a retaliatory strike by somebody (which is what i think you are saying)...

i think in a very real sense that israel has gone all in as it can trying to stop the rocket attacks, with wars in lebanon and gaza and continuing attacks on gaza...

while their efforts may have reduced the number of attacks, it obviously hasn't stopped them...

We severely damaged Iran's nuclear ability with a virus "Stuxnet" which is the only attack we are privy to, and I think you are under estimating Israel's resolve in the matter~

ROYC75
05-23-2011, 03:46 PM
Look, the UN screwed up in 1947. There never was a land called Palestine in biblical days, just people, Philistines. We can blame the British & their British Mandate for all of this.

vailpass
05-23-2011, 03:48 PM
to successfully attack a hit and run rocket squad you'd have to level huge swaths of urban territory...

way way beyond "collateral damage"...

even smart weapons are useless if you can't find the attackers...

no, i think if israel could stop the rocket attacks, it would have done so already, patience or no...

Put Neidermyer on it, he's a sneaky little bastard.

|Zach|
05-23-2011, 03:48 PM
Put Neidermyer on it, he's a sneaky little bastard.

LMAO

go bowe
05-23-2011, 04:01 PM
We severely damaged Iran's nuclear ability with a virus "Stuxnet" which is the only attack we are privy to, and I think you are under estimating Israel's resolve in the matter~

you are probably right, but unfortunately resolve has not translated into a cessation of the rocket attacks from gaza...

nor has it translated into peace for israel...

i fear that resolve won't ever be enough to obtain those goals...

RedNeckRaider
05-23-2011, 04:03 PM
you are probably right, but unfortunately resolve has not translated into a cessation of the rocket attacks from gaza...

nor has it translated into peace for israel...

i fear that resolve won't ever be enough to obtain those goals...

Sadly I fear resolve will be enough and I do not like the outcome~

go bowe
05-23-2011, 04:13 PM
Sadly I fear resolve will be enough and I do not like the outcome~
you are probably right...

i hope for a better resolution of the hostilities, but i am not convinced likud will ever really seek peace, but be content to continue the occupation and continue expanding settlements into the west bank...

of course, with hamas and fatah going through the motions of reconciling it is even more problematic to get full support for the kinds of concessions that israel insists on...

personally i don't see any chance for peace until the peace parties in israel can win the elections and replace likud and their right wing policies AND until the palestinians come to grips with reality and make a commitment to peace...

and that won't be any time soon...

vailpass
05-23-2011, 04:18 PM
you are probably right...

i hope for a better resolution of the hostilities, but i am not convinced likud will ever really seek peace, but be content to continue the occupation and continue expanding settlements into the west bank...

of course, with hamas and fatah going through the motions of reconciling it is even more problematic to get full support for the kinds of concessions that israel insists on...

personally i don't see any chance for peace until the peace parties in israel can win the elections and replace likud and their right wing policies AND until the palestinians come to grips with reality and make a commitment to peace... and that won't be any time soon...

I knew you liked to smoke the weed gb but I had no idea you were smoking the sticky-icky.

go bowe
05-23-2011, 08:48 PM
I knew you liked to smoke the weed gb but I had no idea you were smoking the sticky-icky.
that's nothing...

i ran out of peanut butter so in the time-honored chiefs planet tradition i made a poop sandwich...

ForeverChiefs58
05-23-2011, 10:54 PM
you are probably right...

i hope for a better resolution of the hostilities, but i am not convinced likud will ever really seek peace, but be content to continue the occupation and continue expanding settlements into the west bank...

of course, with hamas and fatah going through the motions of reconciling it is even more problematic to get full support for the kinds of concessions that israel insists on...

personally i don't see any chance for peace until the peace parties in israel can win the elections and replace likud and their right wing policies AND until the palestinians come to grips with reality and make a commitment to peace...

and that won't be any time soon...


The Khartoum Resolution stated the palestinian position loud and clear.

HonestChieffan
05-23-2011, 11:06 PM
didn't israel try that with the last war in gaza?

and how exactly do you go about wiping out more than a million people?

as far as us, sure we could take and hold enough territory to put those kinds of rockets out of range, but as we have learned the hard way, that approach significantly reduces guerrilla attacks but can never stop them...

Israel has never had a goal of wiping out any people. Its the muslim who always talks about the extermination of the Jew. Subtle difference?

go bowe
05-24-2011, 01:26 PM
Israel has never had a goal of wiping out any people. Its the muslim who always talks about the extermination of the Jew. Subtle difference?
not all muslims feel that way, even in the middle east...

but you're right that the extermination threat is a one way kind of deal...

vailpass
05-24-2011, 02:59 PM
not all muslims feel that way, even in the middle east...

but you're right that the extermination threat is a one way kind of deal...

Or at least the verbilization of said sentiment.