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View Full Version : Int'l Issues A Case for the Arab Spring


Dave Lane
05-28-2011, 06:50 PM
(CNN) -- In his speech on Thursday, President Barack Obama will reportedly "reset" his Middle East policy and clarify the administration's position on the Arab Spring.

The speech comes at a critical time, especially for Egypt and Tunisia, countries with the greatest chance of achieving democratic consolidation.
The success of impending elections in these countries will be contingent on the ability of their transitional governments to demonstrate that post-Mubarak or post-Ben Ali life will be better. Yet Egypt and Tunisia face severe economic crises that could spell political doom. Their people will be listening intently for signals that Obama plans to come to their aid.

So far, the Obama administration has yet to formally ask Congress for additional funding for Egypt and Tunisia. Meanwhile, proposals initiated by members of Congress are bogged down in committee. Any reluctance is understandable given the current economic climate in the U.S.
But there is a way to provide financial assistance without additional overall expenditure. The Obama administration could request, and Congress could authorize, the reallocation of funding designated for counterterrorism initiatives toward fostering democratic consolidation.

The idea comes fresh on the heels of the Obama administration's greatest counterterrorism success to date: the death of Osama bin Laden. But other factors -- having nothing whatever to do with U.S. Special Forces, SEAL Team 6 or any other U.S.-sponsored counterterrorism program -- have struck a greater blow to the global jihadist movement.

Those factors are the uprisings from Tunisia to Syria known as the Arab Spring. They unleashed a sense of personal empowerment and articulated a political narrative of self-determination that undermines the very foundations of jihadism. If these popular movements succeed, they will be more effective than traditional counterterrorism. Instead of confronting jihadists directly, they simply make their arguments irrelevant.

Channeling some funds toward job creation or investment promotion in Egypt and Tunisia would not involve a reduction in counterterrorism spending. Rather, funds would be redirected toward policies that might bring greater value for taxpayer dollars.

Assisting Arab democratic transitions will not eliminate religious extremism. But successful transitions would directly challenge the jihadist brands that promote attacks on America.
Global jihadism was founded on the claim that the West, via immoral leaders acting as its lackey, subjugated Muslims. In the Arab world, the jihadist narrative provided a plausible explanation for the powerlessness that many citizens there experience daily.
This salvaged some personal dignity for those resigned to their fates. According to jihadist thought, true believers are not responsible for their current condition and despite their suffering are morally superior to their oppressors. But for a much smaller number, this thought was an impetus for action. There was now a reason to struggle: Extremism and violence could change the future, though the payoff would likely be in the afterlife.
By contrast, the message of the Arab Spring is that Arabs can shape their own future through democracy.

The message's capacity to deflate global jihadist movements was in evidence two weeks ago when news of Osama bin Laden's death was met with a collective shrug. Why? Because in Egypt and Tunisia, citizens are currently focused on building, shaping, planning and other actions associated with fulfilling their dreams.

By taking to the streets, they shattered the myths and fear-mongering that their former leaders used to subjugate them and that jihadists used to promote violence. If Egyptians and Tunisians can be masters of their own destiny, why attack the United States? The entire jihadist rationale unravels.
And yet, if these populist transitions do not succeed, it might appear to some Egyptians and Tunisians that greater forces were conspiring against them. The defeat of the Arab Spring would be used to validate jihadist claims. By providing additional financial assistance to these countries, the U.S. not only would be promoting democracy, it also would be combating terrorism.

go bowe
05-28-2011, 11:11 PM
great idea, doa in the house...

Chocolate Hog
05-29-2011, 01:03 AM
Dave Lane and CNN carrying the water for Obama.

mlyonsd
05-29-2011, 10:01 AM
great idea, doa in the house...

Does the house need to vote on it? Aren't we talking about funds already allocated?

Anyway, I just don't see a politician using dollars intended to keep Americans safe being diverted into to the pockets in the ME. You're one Oklahoma City bombing away from ending your political career. Especially if the money is wasted if democracy over there fails.

The thing I take away most from the article is the idea of transferring funds instead of just borrowing more dollars. The concept of spending less might be setting in. Good job republicans.

Dave Lane
05-29-2011, 10:42 AM
Well I consider the Arab spring a chance for us to really strike a blow against Iran and other hardline countries. The vast majority of these countries hate the repressive regimes that are ruling them. This is a way to bring democracy to the Arabs without invading each country. Way way better and cheaper too. I'd divert some Iraq money to the cause.

Dave Lane
05-29-2011, 10:44 AM
Dave Lane and CNN carrying the water for Obama.

Billay carrying the water for lack of comprehension.

HonestChieffan
05-29-2011, 10:59 AM
Well I consider the Arab spring a chance for us to really strike a blow against Iran and other hardline countries. The vast majority of these countries hate the repressive regimes that are ruling them. This is a way to bring democracy to the Arabs without invading each country. Way way better and cheaper too. I'd divert some Iraq money to the cause.


Considering Iran, how would we get money into the "right" hands? And as far as that goes, do we even know who is "right" in Syria, Egypt? Since the Egyptians dont know who will rise to power, how would the administration know? Would we give money to the Muslim Brotherhood while they are saber rattling that the peace accord with Israel will no longer remain valid?

Seems like a pie in the sky theory that could end up costing billions we don't have and create consequences we cannot control or imagine.

Its like the Peace Corps only at random and with less opportunity to be successful.

mlyonsd
05-29-2011, 11:19 AM
Well I consider the Arab spring a chance for us to really strike a blow against Iran and other hardline countries. The vast majority of these countries hate the repressive regimes that are ruling them. This is a way to bring democracy to the Arabs without invading each country. Way way better and cheaper too. I'd divert some Iraq money to the cause.Yeah I'm not saying it would be the wrong thing to do, just wondering if the Obama administration has the balls politically to do it. It all probably comes down to what our intelligience agencies calculates the chance of success.

SNR
05-29-2011, 11:29 AM
Arab Spring? Seriously? Fuck that. Is CNN the same people who came up with "Twitter Revolution"?

If they are, they can go die in a fire

go bowe
05-29-2011, 11:39 AM
arab spring is what the arabs are calling it...

HonestChieffan
05-29-2011, 11:40 AM
Well I consider the Arab spring a chance for us to really strike a blow against Iran and other hardline countries. The vast majority of these countries hate the repressive regimes that are ruling them. This is a way to bring democracy to the Arabs without invading each country. Way way better and cheaper too. I'd divert some Iraq money to the cause.


And ArabSpring Billions is good how?

Egypt: Muslim Brotherhood Sheikh to Run For President, Vows to Implement Sharia Law, Cancel Peace Treaty With Israel…

(Al-Masry) — Muslim Brotherhood Sheikh Hazem Abu Ismail announced his intention to run in Egypt’s upcoming presidential elections.

He said that if elected he would implement Islamic sharia law and cancel the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel.

Ismail was the Brotherhood’s candidate in 2005 parliamentary elections for Dokki in Giza.

The group announced earlier that it would not take part in the presidential elections and confirmed that it would compete for only half the seats in Parliament. But Ismail is the second Brotherhood member to have announced his intention to run for president in defiance of the group’s leadership. The other Brotherhood candidate is Abdel Moneim Abouel Fotouh, a liberal-minded Islamist.

Abu Ismail said Saturday during a speech in a Dokki mosque that he will sweep the elections. Since he is an ordinary man, he said, the masses will support him.

Abu Ismail said that his platform revolves around Islam, while “Mohamed ElBaradei, Amr Moussa, and Hamdeen Sabahi, the liberal candidates, will be unable to present a clear vision” for the country.

“If I could apply sharia in Egypt, all people, including non-Muslims, would applaud me four years later,” said Abu Ismail.

The sheikh said that no current presidential candidate represents the Egyptian people.

“We seek to apply Islamic law, but those who don’t want it prefer cabarets, alcohol, dancers and prostitution, as the implementation of Islamic law will prohibit women to appear naked in movies and on beaches,” Abu Ismail added.

Dave Lane
05-29-2011, 11:45 AM
You give money to the moderates now so you don't have hard liners later.

go bowe
05-29-2011, 11:46 AM
ok, this guy is apparently runing without the approval or support of the brotherhood...

his whacko ideas do not reflect the position of the brotherhood, which is spelled out correctly in the article...

he's the dennis k. of the brotherhood...

go bowe
05-29-2011, 11:49 AM
You give money to the moderates now so you don't have hard liners later.

it's also cheaper in the long run...

Chiefshrink
05-30-2011, 12:47 PM
[QUOTE=Dave Lane;7668313]This is a way to bring democracy to the Arabs /QUOTE]

:LOL: Democracy and the Muslim religion together:rolleyes:

go bowe
05-30-2011, 06:49 PM
[QUOTE=Dave Lane;7668313]This is a way to bring democracy to the Arabs /QUOTE]

:LOL: Democracy and the Muslim religion together:rolleyes:

ever hear of turkey?

iraq, afghanistan?

democracy and the muslim religion as you call it, can co-exist quite well...

HonestChieffan
05-30-2011, 07:44 PM
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?ID=222824&R=R1

Happy Arab Spring.....

go bowe
05-30-2011, 08:04 PM
aq planning attacks?

that has very little to do with the arab spring...

if anything, opinion in the arab world is that pro-democracy movements in the region are making aq less relevant all the time...

Ugly Duck
05-30-2011, 08:07 PM
:LOL: Democracy and the Muslim religion together:rolleyes:

The democracy in Turkey has a thread common to our own - both are constitutionally secular. Islamists have to renounce ideas like imposing Islamic law because it's illegal. Both the US & Turkey believe it is a responsibility of the government to make sure that individuals have access to practicing their choice of religion. Lotsa Christians seem to assume that Muslims are not capable of building a democratic society cuz they believe its mandatory for them to dictate Sharia law. All you gotta do is look towards Turkey & you see that just ain't so.

HonestChieffan
05-30-2011, 08:10 PM
aq planning attacks?

that has very little to do with the arab spring...

if anything, opinion in the arab world is that pro-democracy movements in the region are making aq less relevant all the time...

Kool aide anyone?

go bowe
05-30-2011, 08:12 PM
Kool aide anyone?

i'm partial to cherry, thank you... :D :D :D

HonestChieffan
05-30-2011, 08:15 PM
i'm partial to cherry, thank you... :D :D :D

Ill bring you a double, no charge.

Direckshun
05-30-2011, 10:14 PM
aq planning attacks?

that has very little to do with the arab spring...

if anything, opinion in the arab world is that pro-democracy movements in the region are making aq less relevant all the time...

Bingo.