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Cave Johnson
06-13-2011, 11:30 AM
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/09/240638/paul-ryan-calls-for-default/

House Republicans have been playing games with the nation’s debt ceiling for months, threatening to not raise it — and thus invite all of the adverse economic consequences that would follow — unless they receive various concessions from the Obama administration and Congressional Democrats, including cuts to Social Security or new constitutional amendments. But at the same time, the Republican leadership has been saying that failure to raise the debt ceiling would be, in the words of House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), “irresponsible.”

But as Aug. 2 approaches, which is the date on which Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner estimates the U.S. will begin to default on some obligations, the Republicans have acted more reckless when it comes to the debt ceiling. Case in point, House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI) has outright called for the U.S. to go over the cliff and miss payments to creditors:

"If a bondholder misses a payment for a day or two or three or four — what is more important is you are putting the government in a materially better position to better pay its bills going forward."

Several Republicans — including Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA) and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) — have said default would not necessarily be bad thing. Others, like Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA), have said that failing to raise the debt ceiling would bring on a “crisis,” but that such a crisis could be beneficial. But as The State pointed out, Ryan is “is the highest ranking Republican thus far to express support for a possible U.S. default.”

Ryan has changed his tune regarding the debt ceiling significantly over the last several months. Back in January, Ryan admitted that failing to raise the debt ceiling was “unworkable.” “Yes, you can’t not raise the debt ceiling. Default is the unworkable solution,” he said during an appearance at the National Press Club. Earlier this month, he began to take a more radical line, saying that the ceiling wouldn’t be raised without concessions from Democrats. “It won’t happen, I’m serious about this,” he said. Now it seems he’s gone full-in with the fringe of his party in actually inviting a default.

Yesterday, the credit rating agency Fitch warned that even a short-term default that resulted in some missed payments — exactly what Ryan is advocating — would do real damage to the U.S. creditworthiness. “If the Treasury missed a payment on its debts, even for a short period, Fitch would lower the nation’s credit rating — adding that it would be ‘unlikely’ the government could return to AAA after such a default,” The Hill reported.

HonestChieffan
06-13-2011, 11:48 AM
The debt impacts credit worthiness when there aint no money to pay it back and anyone with a brain can see its gone to far and spending must be cut. Its nice to see the author paint Ryan as playing games....like Obama and his crew of morons are not?

donkhater
06-13-2011, 11:52 AM
All those in favor of raising the debt limit have been saying, "We are America and we pay our bills".

But that isn't really what we are doing. We are, in a very real sense, paying someone else to pay our bills. If we actually paid our bills, we wouldn't have a massive deficit.

Simplex3
06-13-2011, 12:53 PM
House Republicans have been playing games with the nation’s debt ceiling for months, threatening to not raise it

But as Aug. 2 approaches, which is the date on which Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner estimates the U.S. will begin to default on some obligations, the Republicans have acted more reckless when it comes to the debt ceiling.

How did we get to the point where the people saying "this is enough deficit spending" are the ones playing games? Why isn't it the people running all the funny math to say we can afford things that we don't have the money for?

Cave Johnson
06-13-2011, 01:39 PM
How did we get to the point where the people saying "this is enough deficit spending" are the ones playing games? Why isn't it the people running all the funny math to say we can afford things that we don't have the money for?

The budget Congress passed in the spring necessitated exceeding the debt limit. Ergo, when those same people refuse to do so, they're playing games.

Dave Lane
06-13-2011, 01:46 PM
Thing I don't understand is the R's are always demanding the cuts from the Democrats. Where are theirs? They should be proposing major military cuts, farm subsidies, corporate welfare from oil and tobacco companies as a minimum.

I mean everything they list is cut everything the democrats like but none of "our" stuff.

I don't get it. At least be honest and reasonable and come to the table with your own pet cuts as well. Also rolling back the Bush tax cuts should be on the table.

SNR
06-13-2011, 02:14 PM
Thing I don't understand is the R's are always demanding the cuts from the Democrats. Where are theirs? They should be proposing major military cuts, farm subsidies, corporate welfare from oil and tobacco companies as a minimum.

I mean everything they list is cut everything the democrats like but none of "our" stuff.

I don't get it. At least be honest and reasonable and come to the table with your own pet cuts as well. Also rolling back the Bush tax cuts should be on the table.Those cuts ARE on the table. You just choose to ignore the news that discusses it

Dave Lane
06-13-2011, 02:17 PM
Those cuts ARE on the table. You just choose to ignore the news that discusses it

Well good then. If there is going to be any progress it has to be from each side. So the republicans proposed cutting the military and subsidies? Wow they might actually be serious and if they whack 10% of the military budget I'll tip my hat to them and say well done.

Chocolate Hog
06-13-2011, 02:31 PM
Those cuts ARE on the table. You just choose to ignore the news that discusses it

Yea all that guy does is rant about Republicans and Religion. He's became a pretty worthless poster.

FishingRod
06-13-2011, 03:52 PM
At this point paying just the interest on our debt is something like 6% of the budget. Other than a few really rich people (that are in my opinion disingenuous about it) I don’t know anyone who thinks “they” are not paying enough taxes. There is plenty enthusiasm for the idea that someone else can pay more but me, I don’t think so. So the cold reality is that unless this country comes up with some new plentiful resource that we can export that the rest of the world needs and can only get from us, we are going to need to stop spending more than we have. A 1% actual cut across the board would be a good start.

SNR
06-13-2011, 03:55 PM
Well good then. If there is going to be any progress it has to be from each side. So the republicans proposed cutting the military and subsidies? Wow they might actually be serious and if they whack 10% of the military budget I'll tip my hat to them and say well done.Well, the amount of defense cuts being proposed sounds like a lot (I think it's in the billions) but it's probably still in the single digits in terms of percentage. The minimum number needs to be at LEAST 10% in order for the cuts to have any kind of significance in a balanced budget.

Stewie
06-13-2011, 04:01 PM
http://www.jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/clip_image0013.jpg

go bowe
06-13-2011, 04:34 PM
Yea all that guy does is rant about Republicans and Religion. He's became a pretty worthless poster.

billay, billay, billay...

you are much more worthless than dave lane...

in fact you're worth so less that you have no redeeming qualities...

except for your juvenile homophobic psuedo-insults that are sometimes entertaining...

Jaric
06-13-2011, 04:36 PM
billay, billay, billay...

you are much more worthless than dave lane...

in fact you're worth so less that you have no redeeming qualities...

except for your juvenile homophobic psuedo-insults that are sometimes entertaining...

Shut up fag.

;)

Ugly Duck
06-13-2011, 04:48 PM
The Bush tax cuts, the bailouts & the war in Iraq make up the lion's share of the debt. Bush raised the debt limit five (5) times to accrue that record deficit. Republis raised the limit again & again & again & again, all the while defending deficit spending as "Reaganomic." Now, all of a sudden, Republis say Reaganomic deficit spending is the worst thing in the world & debt limits should not be raised. Their solution? Cut taxes for the wealthy even more, but kill Medicare & Social Security. Maybe we should try getting rid of the two major contributors (Iraq & the Bush tax cuts) before we kill the two most popular government programs. Republis brought us to the precipice of another Great Depression & spending our way out of that catastrophe added quite a chunk as well. We shouldn't have to go through that again if we keep the Republis out of office. We'll be OK if we do those 3 things: Get out of Iraq, let the Bush tax cuts expire, & keep the Republis from engineering another financial crisis. Here's what it will look like if we don't change the Republi policies (it'll be far worse if the Republis manage to increase the Bush tax cuts even more):


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/CBPPpublicdebt.jpg

Chocolate Hog
06-13-2011, 04:50 PM
billay, billay, billay...

you are much more worthless than dave lane...

in fact you're worth so less that you have no redeeming qualities...

except for your juvenile homophobic psuedo-insults that are sometimes entertaining...

I suppose this is why you address nearly everyone one of my posts in this section.

Dave Lane
06-13-2011, 05:11 PM
billay, billay, billay...

you are much more worthless than dave lane...

in fact you're worth so less that you have no redeeming qualities...

except for your juvenile homophobic psuedo-insults that are sometimes entertaining...

Well its nice to know I still have room for downward movement... :)

go bowe
06-13-2011, 05:21 PM
Well its nice to know I still have room for downward movement... :)

LMAO LMAO LMAO

Ace Gunner
06-13-2011, 05:22 PM
maybe chase manhatten won't mind a lil default from me... ??? ya.. no.. pretty sure that's a bad thing. but thx 4 the suggestion. good try.

chasedude
06-13-2011, 05:30 PM
So if we default on say... home loans, the bank repossess. What happens if the gov't defaults on itself? Who takes the assets then?

go bowe
06-13-2011, 05:44 PM
So if we default on say... home loans, the bank repossess. What happens if the gov't defaults on itself? Who takes the assets then?

the chinese?

Amnorix
06-13-2011, 05:45 PM
Nobody. You can't really do much about enforcing sovereign debt. But a default by the United States would immediately send the interest rate on treasuries through the roof, and would probably result in a global economic crisis of pretty major proportions.

chasedude
06-13-2011, 05:45 PM
the chinese?

LMAO Funny, I was actually thinking that too!

Jaric
06-13-2011, 05:59 PM
Don't know, seems to me like part of the issue with this subject is how few people understand what the hell defaulting on the debt actually means.

I know I sure as shit don't.

But apparently according to Ron Paul we've done this a few times before. (assuming I understood him correctly)

No idea if that's true or not.

HonestChieffan
06-13-2011, 06:46 PM
Well its nice to know I still have room for downward movement... :)

Your photography and knowledge of telescopes gives you unfair advantage. I love what you post on that stuff. Politically you are a empty vessel but I still think highly of you. We could have a beer and talk telescope stuff and I would enjoy it. I know zero about that stuff and wish I did but have no idea where to start.

patteeu
06-13-2011, 07:44 PM
Thing I don't understand is the R's are always demanding the cuts from the Democrats. Where are theirs? They should be proposing major military cuts, farm subsidies, corporate welfare from oil and tobacco companies as a minimum.

I mean everything they list is cut everything the democrats like but none of "our" stuff.

I don't get it. At least be honest and reasonable and come to the table with your own pet cuts as well. Also rolling back the Bush tax cuts should be on the table.

You cut where the wasteful, out-of-control, unnecessary spending occurs and that naturally comes disproportionately from democrat pet programs.

HonestChieffan
06-13-2011, 09:35 PM
I agree with Obama:

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006