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View Full Version : Misc Title loans are some repugnant, usurious sh*t


Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm helping out a client pro bono and, in collecting their expense info, came across a printout from Titlemax.

In the last 6 months, the debtor paid $915.59 in interest and only $84.81 in principal. This was with 5 of the 6 payments on time.

This should be (and in many states is) criminal.

Okie_Apparition
06-22-2011, 02:44 PM
It's just too expensive to be poor, but baby needs medicine WTF you gonna do?

Dayze
06-22-2011, 02:45 PM
Montel Williams says it's ok. It's only a small loan until payday. ~

Okie_Apparition
06-22-2011, 02:48 PM
The same companies use to sell hammers & toliet seats to NASA. Found this more lucrative & easier on the PR

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 02:48 PM
It's just too expensive to be poor, but baby needs medicine WTF you gonna do?

It's the height of irony that poor countries engage in microlending at reasonable rates, while we endeavor to f**k over our poor at every opportunity.

luv
06-22-2011, 02:51 PM
They signed up for it knowing it was 90% interest. People will do anything for fast cash.

Bankruptcy?

DMAC
06-22-2011, 02:52 PM
In the last 6 months, the debtor paid $915.59 in interest and only $84.81 in principle. This was with 5 of the 6 payments on time.



WOW. Sounds like a hell of business to be in. Little to no overhead I would assume as well.

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 02:53 PM
Montel Williams says it's ok. It's only a small loan until payday. ~

Gotta pay for his hot brunette wife somehow.

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 02:53 PM
WOW. Sounds like a hell of business to be in. Little to no overhead I would assume as well.

It'd be a fantastic business if you HAD NO SOUL.

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 02:53 PM
They are scummy, but here's betting that your client has ripped off past creditors worse than that which is why he is resorting to loan sharks.

blaise
06-22-2011, 02:54 PM
Whatever. It's a two party transaction.

DMAC
06-22-2011, 02:55 PM
It'd be a fantastic business if you HAD NO SOUL.

The poor stupids would sell me their soul in the contract they sign.

I'd have plenty. :thumb:

luv
06-22-2011, 02:56 PM
The poor stupids would sell me their soul in the contract they sign.

I'd have plenty. :thumb:

You may have talked me into insurance, but I will not fall for this.

Okie_Apparition
06-22-2011, 02:57 PM
Those buy here, pay here car lots look scary as hell too. I get a kick out of people on craiglist trying to sell their used cars based on what prices they see at those places.

DMAC
06-22-2011, 02:58 PM
You may have talked me into insurance, but I will not fall for this.

You're not a poor stupid.

These are:

http://www.springfieldmugshots.com/

Garcia Bronco
06-22-2011, 02:59 PM
Pittse...if Title Max is violating usury laws then report them.

eazyb81
06-22-2011, 03:01 PM
They are scummy, but here's betting that your client has ripped off past creditors worse than that which is why he is resorting to loan sharks.

Yep.

It's insincere to say these places rip off the poor, when in reality they serve as a last resort for people that have ruined their credit from not paying back prior loans.

Someone should shit on their face and teach them a lesson.

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 03:03 PM
Pittse...if Title Max is violating usury laws then report them.

Better yet, I should work out a theory on a class action. Here's how they're getting around state regulations.

"Nine years ago, legislators changed the state's title-loan law to limit how many times lenders can roll borrowers' debts into new, expensive loans. The aim was to keep borrowers from being trapped in a cycle of high-interest debt.....

Yet Ahmedin's debt, according to the lender and the state, isn't a title loan. It's a 'small loan" — a different type of consumer debt that, under Missouri law, comes with fewer safeguards."

http://www.stltoday.com/business/article_bb9ee593-ca73-5a62-aa1a-115824889903.html

Okie_Apparition
06-22-2011, 03:09 PM
Yep.

It's insincere to say these places rip off the poor, when in reality they serve as a last resort for people that have ruined their credit from not paying back prior loans.

Someone should shit on their face and teach them a lesson.

Mastercard goes all honey badger on that shit

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 03:10 PM
Honest question:

Would you rather these places cease to exist? If they didn't, the truly desperate wouldn't have access to money at any price. Is it better to lend them money they need at a high rate, or is it better to make them go without?

DMAC
06-22-2011, 03:12 PM
Honest question:

Would you rather these places cease to exist? If they didn't, the truly desperate wouldn't have access to money at any price. Is it better to lend them money they need at a high rate, or is it better to make them go without?

Go without. They need more money to get drunk, or to pay their utility bill cause they spent the money on booze and smokes.

Okie_Apparition
06-22-2011, 03:13 PM
Seriously, they should just go steal something & pawn it.

luv
06-22-2011, 03:16 PM
Honest question:

Would you rather these places cease to exist? If they didn't, the truly desperate wouldn't have access to money at any price. Is it better to lend them money they need at a high rate, or is it better to make them go without?

Go without. Teach people how to manage their money better.

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 03:17 PM
Honest question:

Would you rather these places cease to exist? If they didn't, the truly desperate wouldn't have access to money at any price. Is it better to lend them money they need at a high rate, or is it better to make them go without?

Absolutely. Usury has been recognized as morally wrong for at least 2,000 years.

There should be, and are, alternatives.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081102363.html

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 03:19 PM
Go without. Teach people how to manage their money better.

You know what else teaches people to better manage their money? Co-signing on a deadbeat bf's car loan. ;)

Garcia Bronco
06-22-2011, 03:20 PM
Better yet, I should work out a theory on a class action. Here's how they're getting around state regulations.

"Nine years ago, legislators changed the state's title-loan law to limit how many times lenders can roll borrowers' debts into new, expensive loans. The aim was to keep borrowers from being trapped in a cycle of high-interest debt.....

Yet Ahmedin's debt, according to the lender and the state, isn't a title loan. It's a 'small loan" a different type of consumer debt that, under Missouri law, comes with fewer safeguards."

http://www.stltoday.com/business/article_bb9ee593-ca73-5a62-aa1a-115824889903.html

At that's why I don't like lawyers...well...until I need one.

luv
06-22-2011, 03:20 PM
You know what else teaches people to better manage their money? Co-signing on a deadbeat bf's car loan. ;)

And taking out said loans for said bf. Trust me, I learned an EXPENSIVE lesson.

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 03:20 PM
Go without. Teach people how to manage their money better.

Kid needs food. Shoulda managed your money better? Electricity about to get shut off in the winter? Shoulda listened to R8ers Fan.

Okie_Apparition
06-22-2011, 03:22 PM
It would be interesting to see how all these people who lost their jobs, homes & used up their 401Ks are managing. Educated people who SHOULD know better

luv
06-22-2011, 03:23 PM
Kid needs food. Shoulda managed your money better? Electricity about to get shut off in the winter? Shoulda listened to R8ers Fan.

And what are they going to do when they're in the exact same spot next month, only now they also have people hounding them whom they can't pay?

blaise
06-22-2011, 03:23 PM
Better yet, I should work out a theory on a class action. Here's how they're getting around state regulations.

"Nine years ago, legislators changed the state's title-loan law to limit how many times lenders can roll borrowers' debts into new, expensive loans. The aim was to keep borrowers from being trapped in a cycle of high-interest debt.....

Yet Ahmedin's debt, according to the lender and the state, isn't a title loan. It's a 'small loan" a different type of consumer debt that, under Missouri law, comes with fewer safeguards."

http://www.stltoday.com/business/article_bb9ee593-ca73-5a62-aa1a-115824889903.html

Seems like the thing to do would be to change the wording on the regulation.

BigCatDaddy
06-22-2011, 03:24 PM
And what are they going to do when they're in the exact same spot next month, only now they also have people hounding them whom they can't pay?

Sale sperm.

blaise
06-22-2011, 03:25 PM
I'll tell you what ends up making people take longer to pay these down at a lot of small consumer-lending places. It's that the people sign up for disability, personal property, and unemployment insurance on the loans, when they don't need it. It can almost double the amount of the loan.

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 03:27 PM
Seems like the thing to do would be to change the wording on the regulation.

Well sure, but the legislature's too busy dealing with sharia law and strip clubs to deal with actual problems. That, and it'd be construed as anti business/jobs.

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 03:29 PM
Sale sperm.

Who would want their sperm? It's not like payday/title loan customers are generally Stanford graduates.

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 03:29 PM
Absolutely. Usury has been recognized as morally wrong for at least 2,000 years.

There should be, and are, alternatives.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081102363.html

There really aren't alternatives. Your link discusses a theoretical future alternative that would still only be available to those with a low but stable income. Its pie in the sky at best, and that is sometime in the future.

blaise
06-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Well sure, but the legislature's too busy dealing with sharia law and strip clubs to deal with actual problems. That, and it'd be construed as anti business/jobs.

Well, good luck with the class action then. Let us know how that all turns out.

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 03:33 PM
And what are they going to do when they're in the exact same spot next month, only now they also have people hounding them whom they can't pay?

Be glad not to be dead because they froze to death, I guess.

ChiefaRoo
06-22-2011, 03:34 PM
It's the height of irony that poor countries engage in microlending at reasonable rates, while we endeavor to f**k over our poor at every opportunity.

In a free society like ours there will ALWAYS be those who make stupid deals for immediate gratification. What are you going to do outlaw ultra high interest loans from Co's? If so, fine but realize dumbshits will still find a way to get themselves screwed over. Why do you think they are poor to begin with?

blaise
06-22-2011, 03:38 PM
It's the height of irony that poor countries engage in microlending at reasonable rates, while we endeavor to f**k over our poor at every opportunity.

What countries? And do you know what happens to the people who default on the loans in those countries?

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 03:38 PM
Let's run to the government and have them put an end to places that rip off those who make bad financial decisions. After all, the government hates things like payday loans, rent to own stores, and the lottery.

KCinNY
06-22-2011, 03:51 PM
Pittsie...how does the interest at TitleMax compare to payday loans' rate? I heard payday joints charge nearly 400% apr for their loans.

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Pittsie...how does the interest at TitleMax compare to payday loans' rate? I heard payday joints charge nearly 400% apr for their loans.

Same wolves, different sheepskin.

Cave Johnson
06-22-2011, 03:57 PM
What countries? And do you know what happens to the people who default on the loans in those countries?

The guy that won the Nobel for it is from Bangladesh.

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 04:05 PM
The guy that won the Nobel for it is from Bangladesh.

The per capita income in Bangladesh is $600. A $50 microloan can make a big difference there. That would amount to a $4200 loan in the US. The average "poor" person in the US receives more in government assistance in a month than a "middle class" citizen of Bangladesh earns in a year. Oh, the irony indeed.

blaise
06-22-2011, 04:16 PM
The guy that won the Nobel for it is from Bangladesh.

Hm mm. Tell you what, try lending some cash to some of the people that title loans does and let me know how that works out.

You know what that guy probably wouldn't do? Extend credit to the customers of the St. Louis title loans businesses.

sedated
06-22-2011, 04:22 PM
I worked at a payday/title loan place right out of college. Most of those people were piece of shit morons, but a few knew how to work the system (which is pretty easy to do on payday loans, if you know how they work).


Occassionally we would get a hold of some of these people's bankruptcy papers, and found out that they had payday loans all over the place, going back and forth, borrowing from one to pay another, losing hundreds of dollars in the process. I think some of them spent an entire day every other week driving from one loan place to another.

Brock
06-22-2011, 04:26 PM
How else are people supposed to pay for that sweet iPhone?

Saul Good
06-22-2011, 04:29 PM
How else are people supposed to pay for that sweet iPhone?

Just wait for Obama's "cash for clamshells" or "bucks for bagphones" program.

Simplex3
06-22-2011, 04:42 PM
And what are they going to do when they're in the exact same spot next month, only now they also have people hounding them whom they can't pay?

It's not like they can return the rims or the bass boat or the iPhone or the satellite TV or the 56 inch 3d flatscreen...

MOhillbilly
06-22-2011, 04:42 PM
i knew a dude that had these loans out all over town. I checked one of his statements once and the annual interest rate was 600%.

Dumbass should just got a fuckin job.

Demonpenz
06-22-2011, 04:43 PM
guys in the military often fall to prey to these places.

Simplex3
06-22-2011, 04:44 PM
In a free society like ours there will ALWAYS be those who make stupid deals for immediate gratification. What are you going to do outlaw ultra high interest loans from Co's? If so, fine but realize dumbshits will still find a way to get themselves screwed over. Why do you think they are poor to begin with?

As I hear it they just lost life's lottery.

MOhillbilly
06-22-2011, 04:45 PM
guys in the military often fall to prey to these places.

credit cards. knew another dude that went in to pay his 6k in CC debt & came out w/ 50K.