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ChiefsandO'sfan
06-28-2011, 11:19 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6711660

CaliforniaChief
06-28-2011, 11:19 AM
Let us fast and pray.

Bill Lundberg
06-28-2011, 11:25 AM
According to Profootballtalk.com it's only Goodell and Smith. The players and owners will not be involved.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/28/owners-and-players-wont-be-in-minnesota/

Owners and players won’t be in Minnesota

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on June 28, 2011, 11:58 AM EDT

Getty Images
Well, we have a twist to the news that the NFL and NFLPA* will be meeting for four days in Minnesota this week.

No owners or players are expected at this round of talks, according to Albert Breer of NFL Network. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, NFLPA* chief DeMaurice Smith, and their respective staffs will be there. So will attorneys for both sides. Breer describes it as “part of the process.”

The obvious question: Why wouldn’t the usual suspects be there?

I’m not the legal expert around here and can only speculate. But the location of the talks and those present could possibly indicate the two sides are working on settling the antitrust case between the league and the players.

It has been almost a month since the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals heard the case, and it’s possible the two sides are trying to get a settlement out of the way.

It’s open for debate what this tells us about progress towards a new CBA. Perhaps the two sides are showing trust in their leadership and a lot can get done this week with fewer voices in the room.

At some point, presumably, everyone will need to get back in the room together.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-28-2011, 11:25 AM
According to Profootballtalk.com it's only Goodell and Smith. The players and owners will not be involved.

Thats a good thing..

Dave Lane
06-28-2011, 11:26 AM
Representatives of the negotiating teams of the NFL and the NFL Players Association have agreed to four consecutive days of talks in the Minneapolis area beginning Tuesday and running through Friday, sources told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen.

This is the fifth consecutive week of talks between the sides, and it's also the longest commitment to talks (four days) in those five weeks.

The talks will continue under the supervision of U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, who has been assigned to run court-ordered mediation. Boylan lives in the Minneapolis area.

NFL.com first reported that the talks would take place this week in Minnesota but did not specify on what days the negotiations would take place.

After last week's labor talks outside Boston, players were told the next set of negotiations would involve commissioner Roger Goodell, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith, several owners and players.

The meetings this week will be the fifth round of confidential talks between the parties. Representatives from the NFL and the NFLPA have previously met outside Chicago, in Long Island, N.Y., in Maryland and last week in Hull, Mass.

NFL Labor Negotiations and Lockout

The NFL lockout began on March 11, with no obvious end in sight. ESPN.com Topics keeps you up to date on all of the latest on the labor situation. More »

The Associated Press reported Monday that a small group of players met with NFLPA attorneys in Minneapolis without the owners present. It is unknown what they discussed.

The players have an antitrust suit against the league that was filed in Minneapolis, and the city also is where the sides met for court-ordered mediation in May.

The lockout began on March 12, and players -- except for when the work stoppage was briefly lifted in April -- have not been allowed to train at team facilities or be in contact with any of their coaches. Players on several teams have gathered on their own, trying to keep in football shape so they'll be prepared to get back to business on the field whenever the labor impasse is over.

"It's not about getting a deal done as quickly as possible, it's about getting a fair deal done," said Houston linebacker DeMeco Ryans, one of the team's representatives who worked out Monday with other Texans players. "Whenever that time comes, when a fair deal is on the table, that's when it will get done. We're not in a big panic to get something done, just for the sake of getting it done."

The key issue in the dispute centers on how to divide revenues after the league took in about $9.3 billion last year. Sources familiar with the owners' proposal told Mortensen last week that the players' share would approach the 50 percent mark the NFLPA has said it has received throughout the last decade. But the expense credits -- about $1 billion last year -- that the league takes off the top would disappear.

Also, there no longer would be "designated revenues" from which the players would share. Instead, the players would share from the entire pool of income, which both sides project will grow significantly over the course of a new collective bargaining agreement.

A salary floor requiring teams to spend close to 100 percent of the cap in cash also would be included, sources told ESPN.com's John Clayton.

Training camps are scheduled to open in about a month, and the first preseason game -- Chicago vs. St. Louis -- is scheduled for Aug. 7 at the Pro Football Hall of Fame inductions in Canton, Ohio.

"Hopefully, everything gets worked out quickly so we can get to training camp on time and get guys back to work and have a full season," Giants quarterback Eli Manning said in a telephone interview with the AP. "That's what the fans want. Obviously, they are the ones that make this possible, so hopefully we can get it done for them."

Information from ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen, ESPN.com senior NFL writer John Clayton and The Associated Press was used in this report.

Brock
06-28-2011, 12:07 PM
Brees, Manning hope to avoid franchise tag in new CBA
Posted by Mike Florio on June 27, 2011, 5:51 PM EDT

Previously, we’ve speculated that the named plaintiffs in the Tom Brady class action could seek the same benefit that the named plaintiffs in the Reggie White class action received — a career exemption from the franchise tag. The fact that the named plaintiffs in the Brady case include Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, who is subject to the franchise tag now, and Saints quarterback Drew Brees, whose contract expires after the 2011 season, makes the possibility a much more intriguing one.

And now let’s make it even more intriguing.

Per multiple sources with knowledge of the situation, but who have requested anonymity . . . yada, yada, yada . . . sensitivity of the situation . . . yada, yada, yada . . . confidentiality of the settlement talks, the agency that represents Manning and Brees is pushing for both players to be exempt from the application of the franchise tag. If CAA is successful, Manning would be in position to squeeze the Colts for a monstrous contract — even more monstrous than the one he’ll get even if the franchise tag is applied.

This also would benefit Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson, to whom the Chargers applied the franchise tag before the lockout started, and Patriots offensive lineman Logan Mankins, who also received the franchise tag before the lockout. Over the long haul, the biggest winner could be Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller, who would sign his first contract knowing that, when it expires, it truly will expire.

Cave Johnson
06-28-2011, 12:12 PM
Brees, Manning hope to avoid franchise tag in new CBA
Posted by Mike Florio on June 27, 2011, 5:51 PM EDT

Previously, we’ve speculated that the named plaintiffs in the Tom Brady class action could seek the same benefit that the named plaintiffs in the Reggie White class action received — a career exemption from the franchise tag. The fact that the named plaintiffs in the Brady case include Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, who is subject to the franchise tag now, and Saints quarterback Drew Brees, whose contract expires after the 2011 season, makes the possibility a much more intriguing one.

And now let’s make it even more intriguing.

Per multiple sources with knowledge of the situation, but who have requested anonymity . . . yada, yada, yada . . . sensitivity of the situation . . . yada, yada, yada . . . confidentiality of the settlement talks, the agency that represents Manning and Brees is pushing for both players to be exempt from the application of the franchise tag. If CAA is successful, Manning would be in position to squeeze the Colts for a monstrous contract — even more monstrous than the one he’ll get even if the franchise tag is applied.

This also would benefit Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson, to whom the Chargers applied the franchise tag before the lockout started, and Patriots offensive lineman Logan Mankins, who also received the franchise tag before the lockout. Over the long haul, the biggest winner could be Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller, who would sign his first contract knowing that, when it expires, it truly will expire.

Paging Tamba Hali's agent, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

Cave Johnson
06-28-2011, 12:16 PM
No franchise tag strikes me as a throw-away negotiating position, however.

Garcia Bronco
06-28-2011, 12:21 PM
The NFLPA...you mean the organization representing all the players that isn't a union?

Dave Lane
06-28-2011, 12:28 PM
The NFLPA...you mean the organization representing all the players that isn't a union?

Kinda like the players that aren't players or employees any more.

MIAdragon
06-28-2011, 12:39 PM
They can all run into an aids tree, slurp some AF and die in a fire, just sayin.

Bowser
06-28-2011, 12:42 PM
Brees, Manning hope to avoid franchise tag in new CBA
Posted by Mike Florio on June 27, 2011, 5:51 PM EDT

Previously, we’ve speculated that the named plaintiffs in the Tom Brady class action could seek the same benefit that the named plaintiffs in the Reggie White class action received — a career exemption from the franchise tag. The fact that the named plaintiffs in the Brady case include Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, who is subject to the franchise tag now, and Saints quarterback Drew Brees, whose contract expires after the 2011 season, makes the possibility a much more intriguing one.

And now let’s make it even more intriguing.

Per multiple sources with knowledge of the situation, but who have requested anonymity . . . yada, yada, yada . . . sensitivity of the situation . . . yada, yada, yada . . . confidentiality of the settlement talks, the agency that represents Manning and Brees is pushing for both players to be exempt from the application of the franchise tag. If CAA is successful, Manning would be in position to squeeze the Colts for a monstrous contract — even more monstrous than the one he’ll get even if the franchise tag is applied.

This also would benefit Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson, to whom the Chargers applied the franchise tag before the lockout started, and Patriots offensive lineman Logan Mankins, who also received the franchise tag before the lockout. Over the long haul, the biggest winner could be Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller, who would sign his first contract knowing that, when it expires, it truly will expire.

It would be weird seeing Manning in a Bengals uniform.

philfree
06-28-2011, 12:49 PM
It would be weird seeing Manning in a Bengals uniform.

Redskins

Bowser
06-28-2011, 12:50 PM
Redskins

Yeah, more likely.

talastan
06-28-2011, 12:59 PM
Redskins

Or Cowgirls....

Brock
06-28-2011, 01:32 PM
It would be weird seeing Manning in a Bengals uniform.

It would be awesome seeing Drew Brees in a Chiefs uniform.

Mr. Laz
06-28-2011, 04:13 PM
Thats a good thing.. So will attorneys for both sides

the lawyers negate much of any goodness available

Okie_Apparition
06-28-2011, 04:24 PM
HA! Articles from PFT, yet nothing posted here from Peter is King or Peter in Crisco.

chiefqueen
06-28-2011, 04:40 PM
HA! Articles from PFT, yet nothing posted here from Peter is King or Peter in Crisco.

I don't think we'll see anything from Peter King. He wrote in last week's column he's on vacation until mid-July.

BigMeatballDave
06-28-2011, 04:54 PM
Fucking greedy cockbags better get something done.

BigMeatballDave
06-28-2011, 05:09 PM
The NFLPA...you mean the organization representing all the players that isn't a union?Oh STFU! The finger-pointing is played out. Who gives a Fuck anymore? Both sides are greedy Fucks.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-28-2011, 05:11 PM
ProFootballWklyPro Football Weekly

RT @dombonvissuto: Roger Goodell accepts De Smith's invite to speak at NFLPA event in Florida, @SI_PeterKing reports: http://bit.ly/iZhYJ5

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-28-2011, 05:12 PM
SI_PeterKingPeter King

Roger Goodell and De Smith are on a flight together right now, en route to Fla., where Goodell will speak at NFLPA event: bit.ly/iZhYJ5

21 seconds agoFavoriteRetweetReply

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-28-2011, 05:30 PM
realfreemancbsmike freeman

SI says Goodell to speak at NFLPA rookie symposium. Do you really think D-Smith would ask Roger to speak if deal wasn't close?

crazycoffey
06-28-2011, 05:40 PM
get 'er done! I can't wait for this to all be over, it's getting as boring to hear about as Favre's multiple returns...

Coogs
06-28-2011, 06:20 PM
Over the long haul, the biggest winner could be Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller, who would sign his first contract knowing that, when it expires, it truly will expire.

Have I missed something?

chiefqueen
06-28-2011, 06:36 PM
realfreemancbsmike freeman

SI says Goodell to speak at NFLPA rookie symposium. Do you really think D-Smith would ask Roger to speak if deal wasn't close?

What I what to know is where are the 2 sitting on the plane in relation to one another............and the escape hatch?

Psyko Tek
06-28-2011, 06:44 PM
I can't find the link
but at one time
I thought manning's salary was half of the colts cap
or am I very mistaken

listopencil
06-28-2011, 07:45 PM
The NFLPA...you mean the organization representing all the players that isn't a union?

Well, the NFL cartel has to negotiate in good faith from the standpoint that they believe the NFLPA kinda/sorta still exists or they are screwed.

listopencil
06-28-2011, 07:47 PM
Have I missed something?

It looks like Free Agency is being changed with the new CBA, that players will be true Free Agents after their first contract.

Chief Roundup
06-28-2011, 08:30 PM
Have I missed something?

I thought there was mention of no franchise tag????????

Coogs
06-29-2011, 07:40 AM
It looks like Free Agency is being changed with the new CBA, that players will be true Free Agents after their first contract.

I should have been more specific I guess. I was wondering why Von Miller was singled out? Has it been decided that four years from now he will be the best player out of this draft class?

philfree
06-29-2011, 09:28 AM
I should have been more specific I guess. I was wondering why Von Miller was singled out? Has it been decided that four years from now he will be the best player out of this draft class?

If you read the article this isn't a league wide thing. It's only the guys named in the lawsuit.

Brees, Manning hope to avoid franchise tag in new CBA
Posted by Mike Florio on June 27, 2011, 5:51 PM EDT

Previously, we’ve speculated that the named plaintiffs in the Tom Brady class action could seek the same benefit that the named plaintiffs in the Reggie White class action received — a career exemption from the franchise tag. The fact that the named plaintiffs in the Brady case include Colts quarterback Peyton Manning, who is subject to the franchise tag now, and Saints quarterback Drew Brees, whose contract expires after the 2011 season, makes the possibility a much more intriguing one.

And now let’s make it even more intriguing.

Per multiple sources with knowledge of the situation, but who have requested anonymity . . . yada, yada, yada . . . sensitivity of the situation . . . yada, yada, yada . . . confidentiality of the settlement talks, the agency that represents Manning and Brees is pushing for both players to be exempt from the application of the franchise tag. If CAA is successful, Manning would be in position to squeeze the Colts for a monstrous contract — even more monstrous than the one he’ll get even if the franchise tag is applied.

This also would benefit Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson, to whom the Chargers applied the franchise tag before the lockout started, and Patriots offensive lineman Logan Mankins, who also received the franchise tag before the lockout. Over the long haul, the biggest winner could be Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller, who would sign his first contract knowing that, when it expires, it truly will expire


:arrow:

keg in kc
06-29-2011, 09:32 AM
If they're getting rid of restricted free agency, that could make things interesting (in a bad way) for smaller, less visible markets like ours.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-29-2011, 07:05 PM
The night before delivering a joint message to NFL rookies with commissioner Roger Goodell, NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith held an under-the-radar conference call Tuesday to update many of the league’s most prolific stars on the status of labor negotiations, FOXSports.com has learned.





LABOR WOES
•Goodell to speak at rookie symposium
•Report: PA, owners meet 4 straight days
•Pasquarelli: Momentum leading to CBA
•Horrow breaks down the progress
•Labor central: Follow all the labor drama


Perhaps the most important thing to emerge from the talks so far was this: While saying he was optimistic because the two sides were continuing to negotiate, Smith painted a different picture than that of a Collective Bargaining Agreement being reached as soon as this weekend.

Smith began the call by informing players — 50 Pro Bowlers were given call-in information but the number who participated is unknown — that recent reports by certain news outlets were way off. That is why Smith wanted to tell players they still haven’t gotten a good enough offer from the owners to bring to them just yet.

According to several sources, Smith took questions but prefaced that by saying he couldn’t get into specifics because of a court-mandated gag order.

The first question came from Baltimore Ravens All Pro linebacker Ray Lewis. He asked, "How optimistic are you that a deal will get done soon?" Smith insisted that any time the two sides are working together, as they are now, there is reason for hope.

But later in the call when Jacksonville’s Pro Bowl running back Maurice Jones-Drew asked about the details of free agency once the lockout ends, players on the call were given examples of just how sticky these negotiations have become.

A few cited were years of service to become an unrestricted free agent (owners want six years; players want four) and money allocated for retired players — neither of which have been agreed upon yet. It has been widely reported both sides have agreed to restore parameters of the 2009 CBA that allowed unrestricted free agency after four seasons for players who weren’t under contract. But after yesterday’s conference call, that hardly seems to be the case.












"At one point, we were asked if we could sell six years of free agency to our locker rooms and we all said there’s no way," one player on the call told FOXSports.com. "We heard about that and the (issue of) retired players — and that is even before we start talking about splitting the revenue."

Another player said he was glad they had the call "because now I have a better understanding of what’s really going on before other guys in my locker room ask me. I was watching the news for updates and judging from what I heard today, the updates didn’t seem to be close to what they were telling us during the call. Now we feel a little more informed."

These are the first concrete details that a number of players (who participated in the group call), have been given regarding some of the sticking points in negotiations.

Optimism that a new CBA was within reach heightened this week as Goodell and Smith appeared together and spoke at the NFLPA rookie symposium in Bradenton, Fla. on Wednesday.

“We're taking a break because we felt it was important to be down here with the players," Goodell told media after speaking at the symposium. “We both have great respect for the players. This is an important few days. We're going to get back to work."

Presumably, that meant the four consecutive days of planned meetings that began Monday would yield tangible results. These discussion sessions in Minneapolis have included representatives from the NFL office and the NFLPA without owners, players or attorneys from either side present.

Owners and players are expected to re-enter the talks Thursday, according to an NFL Network report. The talks reportedly will include a “select” group of owners and players as well as Goodell, Smith and their respective attorneys.

Players and owners were left jostling for position after the prior CBA expired March 11, leading to an NFL lockout and litigation by players against the league. After several agonizing months of heated rhetoric, bitter accusations and expressed lack of trust on both sides, it seemed as the NFL and its players were finally closing in on the framework of a new labor agreement, according to multiple media reports.




FOX SPORTS POLL



Which side deserves the most blame for the NFL's labor situation?
Owners
Players




Among the details reportedly being finalized: revenue sharing among clubs, a rookie wage scale and a full-season of Thursday night contests that would be sold in whole or in part as a new television rights package.

There is a heightened sense of urgency to strike a deal and resume NFL business because of the Hall Fame game in Canton, Ohio on Aug. 7, the league’s first preseason contest

ChiefGator
06-29-2011, 07:21 PM
Soo... it seems like maybe the only thing they may have agreed upon is the 48% of total revenue to players without any money off the top for the owners? Maybe?

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-29-2011, 08:21 PM
JRRickertJR Rickert

According to my source, "the owners went backwards today."

28 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply


JRRickertJR Rickert

Just got a disturbing report from a source very close to the talks that we are no where near settling this and... http://fb.me/16mvvDdWE

38 minutes agoFavoriteRetweetReply

notorious
06-29-2011, 08:36 PM
It would suck getting franchised. Sure you would get a lot of money for one year, but it would only be short term and the player has no negotiating power.


No Franchise Tag = Good for top players


No Franchise Tag = Bad for small market teams

Mr. Laz
06-29-2011, 08:55 PM
It would suck getting franchised. Sure you would get a lot of money for one year, but it would only be short term and the player has no negotiating power.


No Franchise Tag = Good for top players


No Franchise Tag = Bad for small market teams
depends on the position

the franchise tag got Manning something like 18 million for 1 year. which is almost like another complete signing bonus. Don't have to cry too much for the top players ... they get their money eventually.

notorious
06-29-2011, 09:20 PM
depends on the position

the franchise tag got Manning something like 18 million for 1 year. which is almost like another complete signing bonus. Don't have to cry too much for the top players ... they get their money eventually.

But they are getting paid like the top 5 in their position instead of what the market dictates.

Imagine you are ready to change companies and the new company will pay you more then any other person with your job in the country. Your old company says "Nope", we are going to make you stay with us for less money for one year.

That year you go deaf/blind, etc. You only have that one year's worth of money, instead of the mega deal multi-year contract the new company was offering.


That would suck.


Trust me, for our team's sakes I hope they keep the tag. If not, Dallas, NY, Washington are going to buy up all of the top FA's, especially QB's.

Chiefs Pantalones
06-29-2011, 09:30 PM
Dang can we resolve this already? I'm in sports pergatory right now. Get this over with so we can look forward to another awesome season of the best sport in the world.

BossChief
06-30-2011, 12:18 AM
So, this is the part where the lawyers step in and fuck everything up, right?

Chocolate Hog
06-30-2011, 12:57 AM
No this is the part where the media overreacts to everything. Theres going to be bumps in the road otherwise this thing would have been done months ago. I'd say they are on good pace to meet the date Scheftner was reporting a few weeks ago which was mid-July.

KCChiefsFan88
06-30-2011, 09:37 AM
Just lock all the key players in a room until this gets worked out.

I am looking forward to the salary floor/minimum that likely will be in place with the new CBA. Clark will have to actually spend some money.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 12:01 PM
AlbertBreerAlbert Breer

As we've reported, it was an issue Monday. And it's still proving difficult to solve. If anything can jeopardize these talks, that's it.


AlbertBreerAlbert Breer
Just sent this add-in to my story ... Much as sides have tried to fix it, the revenue split remains an explosive subject in these talks. ...




Got a feeling this deal isnt gonna happen.

Mr. Laz
06-30-2011, 12:08 PM
Got a feeling this deal isnt gonna happen.
ya, the NFL is just over.


:spock:

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 02:45 PM
mortreportChris Mortensen

NFL owners & players remain in negotiations; players reps & other leaders will have conference call tonight. Jeff Saturday will spearhead.


mortreportChris Mortensen

There haven't been a lot of positive vibes on talks but can never forget "real-time" negotiations can be confusing and even misleading.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 03:25 PM
mortreportChris Mortensen

Jeff Saturday and De Smith are just beginning that conference call with player leadership...talks feel somewhat stalled.

Mr. Laz
06-30-2011, 03:28 PM
i guess Smith actually took an offer from the owners to the players finally.

Rausch
06-30-2011, 03:39 PM
mortreportChris Mortensen

Jeff Saturday and De Smith are just beginning that conference call with player leadership...talks feel somewhat stalled.

Shocker.

Chiefs Pantalones
06-30-2011, 04:07 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else think it's ironic that in the current (bad) state of the US economy two kids' games (football and basketball) that pay their employees millions dollars while the owners make billions of dollars are being locked out? Somewhere some kid that just graduated from college gets a job at Burger King because the economy sucks while these two professional sports leagues fight over millions and billions of dollars. LMAO only in America.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 04:38 PM
mortreportChris Mortensen

Well, player conference call is over. Wasn't good. But negotiating team got back to work. That's good.

chiefqueen
06-30-2011, 04:41 PM
ESPN is reporting talks are stalling. I think they will completely fall apart in the next 24 hours. I was hoping against hope but all along my "gut" was telling me this would happen. IMO if talks do falls apart I do not see them negotiating for another 5-6 weeks and that will be a last-ditch effort to save the full 16-game season.

Here's a link (and I'll post a poll once they do fall apart).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6721798

MahiMike
06-30-2011, 04:41 PM
Wake me when it's over.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 04:43 PM
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Smith was telling the players this.

Bugeater
06-30-2011, 04:44 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else think it's ironic that in the current (bad) state of the US economy two kids' games (football and basketball) that pay their employees millions dollars while the owners make billions of dollars are being locked out? Somewhere some kid that just graduated from college gets a job at Burger King because the economy sucks while these two professional sports leagues fight over millions and billions of dollars. LMAO only in America.
No, it's not just you. This is fucking absurd.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 04:50 PM
he owners are wrecking negotiations


Posted on: June 30, 2011 6:37 pm




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At the beginning of the labor talks, when negotiations were ongoing in Washington, which seems like a galaxy far, far away, I heard from several player sources that owners were playing games during the discussions. The sides would reach a verbal agreement on a part of a new CBA in the morning and then the owners would change their minds and the numbers in the evening. It went this way several times, I'm told.

Those types of games, players familiar with the talks explained, later ceased, and that's when talks took a signifcant positive turn with some sources believing several weeks ago that a deal was 80 percent done and a new CBA was on the horizon. That optimism remained until Thursday.

The NFL will disagree with this. And there is certainly room for debate and the owners will say this is simply negotiating. But in a series of text messages from several sources familair with Thursday's discussions, players say the owners are back to their old tricks.

Again, the NFL will deny this, but I believe it is the owners who are destroying this round of talks, even as the two sides are extremely close. I believe the sources that tell me owners are playing mind games with the players: getting their optimism up and then down hoping the players cave out of frustration.

The players were having a conference call on Thursday night to discuss the day's events.

Overall, this was a bad day. That doesn't mean a good day won't soon come but this was not great. I get the feeling despite dealing with owner games in the past, this day caught the players by surprise.

A deal still gets done to save the season, I believe, but as the last media optimist standing, I'm about to leave the room.

Stay tuned. More to come.http://mike-freeman.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6264363/30360298

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 05:06 PM
It may be time for rulings from the Eighth Circuit and Judge Doty

BigMeatballDave
06-30-2011, 05:24 PM
It may be time for rulings from the Eighth Circuit and Judge DotyMakes you wonder if the owners are sandbagging because of this.

Provided these tweets are accurate.

Mr. Laz
06-30-2011, 06:56 PM
It may be time for rulings from the Eighth Circuit and Judge Doty

Makes you wonder if the owners are sandbagging because of this.

Provided these tweets are accurate.
i don't think Doty is the one making the next ruling. If it was Doty then the owners would NOT be wanting any part of it. Doty is the douche that has never ruled against the players .... ever. iirc.

----------------------------
Judge Kermit Bye encouraged both sides to continue working towards an agreement in coming days. Albert Breer of NFL.com reports Bye said the ruling will come (http://twitter.com/#%21/AlbertBreer/status/76681981609521152) in “due course” and that would be one “neither side would like.” Bye reportedly encouraged the two sides to work their problems out on their own.
----------------------------

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 06:57 PM
i don't think Doty is the one making the next ruling. If it was Doty then the owners would NOT be wanting any part of it. Doty is the douche that has never ruled against the players .... ever. iirc.

----------------------------
Judge Kermit Bye encouraged both sides to continue working towards an agreement in coming days. Albert Breer of NFL.com reports Bye said the ruling will come (http://twitter.com/#%21/AlbertBreer/status/76681981609521152) in “due course” and that would be one “neither side would like.” Bye reportedly encouraged the two sides to work their problems out on their own.
----------------------------

Doty will rule on the tv money

Mr. Laz
06-30-2011, 07:00 PM
Doty will rule on the tv money
ahh, that is the lockout lawsuit

the Owners will lose ... Doty is on the NFLPA payroll.

The main ruling will be by the Kermit guy, i think.

BigMeatballDave
06-30-2011, 07:24 PM
i don't think Doty is the one making the next ruling. If it was Doty then the owners would NOT be wanting any part of it. Doty is the douche that has never ruled against the players .... ever.Obviously with good reason.

Chocolate Hog
06-30-2011, 07:37 PM
AlbertBreer
I've heard the cries for weeks now -- "Why aren't they locked in a building, 'round the clock?" Looks like people are getting their wish.
9 minutes ago via web


AlbertBreer
... Can also say at least some flights for tonight have been cancelled.
about 1 hour ago via Echofon


AlbertBreer
Now in their 11th hour of talks here today, was just told talks will go longer. Not sure how much longer. But we're into the night here.
about 1 hour ago via Echofon

Mr. Laz
06-30-2011, 07:55 PM
AlbertBreer
I've heard the cries for weeks now -- "Why aren't they locked in a building, 'round the clock?" Looks like people are getting their wish.
9 minutes ago via web

AlbertBreer
... Can also say at least some flights for tonight have been cancelled.
about 1 hour ago via Echofon

AlbertBreer
Now in their 11th hour of talks here today, was just told talks will go longer. Not sure how much longer. But we're into the night here.
about 1 hour ago via Echofon
sounds like there is enough to be worth staying around to talk about.

boogblaster
06-30-2011, 08:33 PM
give'm the money leys play ball ....

Fruit Ninja
06-30-2011, 09:10 PM
AlbertBreer Albert Breer
We're past 10 CT ... And they're still meeting. Entering Hour No. 14 of this day's negotiations.

They have to be somewhat close if they are going on 14 fucking hours and the big dudes are all there.

Chocolate Hog
06-30-2011, 09:14 PM
AlbertBreer Albert Breer
We're past 10 CT ... And they're still meeting. Entering Hour No. 14 of this day's negotiations.

They have to be somewhat close if they are going on 14 ****ing hours and the big dudes are all there.

My first thought after reading all this bad news was they were working on salvaging talks but I think your line of thinking is the correct one.

BigMeatballDave
06-30-2011, 09:17 PM
AlbertBreer Albert Breer
We're past 10 CT ... And they're still meeting. Entering Hour No. 14 of this day's negotiations.

They have to be somewhat close if they are going on 14 fucking hours and the big dudes are all there.Wow. This has to be good news. No Fucking way they stay this late if they are still far apart.

Fruit Ninja
06-30-2011, 09:17 PM
My first thought after reading all this bad news was they were working on salvaging talks but I think your line of thinking is the correct one.

Its all about creating more buzz. It will seem more dramatic, oooh in the 5th hour owners were ready to walk away, then blah blah they got a deal done in the last seconds. Shit is all about drama!

Rams Fan
06-30-2011, 09:19 PM
Still think the lockout will end within 2 weeks.

Chocolate Hog
06-30-2011, 09:56 PM
On the local news they said the owners now want to give the players 45% instead of 48% of the pie. These are the same motherfuckers who said a deal could be done by this weekend a few hours ago.

ChiefsandO'sfan
06-30-2011, 10:03 PM
AlbertBreerAlbert Breer

And it's 11 CT. 14 hours down. Into Hour 15 for players, owners. Still waiting ... And it's Friday on the East Coast.

Count Zarth
06-30-2011, 11:10 PM
http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2011/06/24/062411-Whitlock-football-PI_20110624135937734_196_100.JPG

chiefqueen
07-01-2011, 06:02 AM
According on Mortenson on Mike & Mike this morning they met until about 2 EDT. ESPN's ticker says they are meeting later today.

Cave Johnson
07-01-2011, 11:25 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else think it's ironic that in the current (bad) state of the US economy two kids' games (football and basketball) that pay their employees millions dollars while the owners make billions of dollars are being locked out? Somewhere some kid that just graduated from college gets a job at Burger King because the economy sucks while these two professional sports leagues fight over millions and billions of dollars. LMAO only in America.

I'd call it emblematic of the times. Our benevolent corporate overlords are using the downturn as an excuse to extract concessions from the masses. Goldman Sachs, for crying out loud, is threatening to outsource jobs to Singapore.

http://articles.boston.com/2011-06-30/sports/29722553_1_stern-measures-david-stern-dim-future

It appears that the plutocrats who own NBA teams have decided that the path trod by the plutocrats who run NFL teams is the one that they want to be on. Terrific. <b>Some day in the dim future, historians are going to remember this time in history as the time when the people controlling the money and power in this country decided en masse that they were the only living people who counted.

Make no mistake. These guys -- and their footballing counterparts -- are members of a corporate class that, in their regular day jobs, have been revelling over the past three-plus decades in the collapse of the labor movement and the yawning gap between profits and real wages. They are the out-sourcers. They are the union-busters. They are the benefit-snatchers. To expect them to behave any differently towards their other employees just because those employees make a lot of money and have semi-functioning union representation is to expect a goat to ice-skate. You will not see any of these people selling apples on the sidewalk any time soon, no matter how loudly they poor-mouth the expensive hobby toys they bought for themselves. </b>

The NBA is in lockout because David Stern decided to have a lockout. David Stern knows who pays his salary. Ask the fans in Seattle how much he cares about anyone else.

Brock
07-01-2011, 02:57 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_nfl_labor_talks_turn_bizarre_063011

Sources: ‘Bizarre’ twists stifle NFL labor talks

By Michael Silver, Yahoo! Sports

Three weeks ago, as Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith broke bread in a midtown Manhattan restaurant, the leaders of the NFL’s warring labor factions projected a sense of mutual optimism. During a negotiation session earlier that day at a Long Island hotel, Smith and player representatives had suggested a new, “all-revenue” model for splitting up the billions of dollars generated annually by America’s most profitable professional sports league, and Goodell and the owners across the table seemed to embrace the idea enthusiastically.



Late Thursday afternoon, after another frustrating interchange between the two negotiating teams at a Minneapolis-area law firm that ultimately lasted past midnight, it was clear that labor peace – and an end to the lockout imposed by the owners on March 12 – won’t be achieved anywhere close to as seamlessly as numerous reports in recent weeks have suggested. Not only is the very definition of total revenue being debated, but each side also believes the other has tried to manipulate the negotiation process in its favor, and any semblance of trust has all but disappeared.


A little more than two months before the scheduled start of the 2011 regular season, the players and owners are still fighting over money, and quarreling over who deserves the brunt of the blame. One side is speaking Russian, the other Japanese, and that sense of mutual optimism once enjoyed by the NFL commissioner and NFL Players Association executive director has been lost in translation.

“It’s just bizarre right now,” one source on the players’ side said Thursday. “Two weeks ago, I was optimistic. I didn’t realize that we weren’t even close to close. It’s disheartening.”

I’ve talked to key figures from both camps, and others who are more neutral while familiar with the state of negotiations, and I’m still trying to figure out how what one source described as a verbal handshake between players and owners regarding a total-revenue formula earlier this month has degenerated into a montage of mutual finger-pointing.

Those on the players’ negotiating team are convinced that owners have played “bait-and-switch” games with them, belatedly asking for certain items to be excluded from the total-revenue pool after seemingly having agreed to a straight split. They view the recent wave of public optimism suspiciously, believing that owners have purposely tried to create an impression that a deal is near in order to persuade players to accept an offer in the next couple of weeks, thus ensuring that the entire preseason would be saved.

Conversely, owners continue to regard NFLPA attorneys Jeffrey Kessler and James Quinn as divisive forces intent on blowing up any prospective settlement in favor of continuing to pursue legal remedies, including the Brady v. NFL antitrust lawsuit, that could create monumental leverage for the players in the future. The owners trace recent player demands that they regard as unrealistic – i.e. an insistence upon counting sales taxes on tickets as part of total league revenue – to the two attorneys and charge that the players are the ones who’ve attempted to extract extra concessions in recent days.

The heart of the dispute remains how to split up the annual revenue pool, which in 2010 – the final year of the expired collective bargaining agreement – totaled approximately $9.3 billion. Under last year’s formula, the owners took $1 billion off the top in “expense credits,” and the players received 58 percent of the remaining money in salary distributed via a league-wide salary cap.

After opting out of the CBA two years early, the owners demanded an extra $1 billion off the top to cover rising costs such as stadium construction. The players balked, insisting that the owners open their books to convince them that they were struggling economically. The owners refused, and though the two sides made some progress on the expense-credit issue in the days leading up to the CBA’s expiration in March, it was not enough to forestall union decertification, the owner-imposed lockout and the players’ filing of the antitrust lawsuit.

Three weeks ago, shortly before that much ballyhooed Manhattan dinner between Smith and Goodell, a breakthrough occurred. Revisiting a concept they’d proposed shortly after Super Bowl XLV, the players suggested that instead of arguing over expense credits, the two sides should focus on a simple, equitable split of total, unadjusted revenue, or all revenue.

Back in February, the players had proposed a 50-50 all-revenue split, one which would have mirrored their haul from the previous CBA. The players received slightly more than 50 percent of total revenue in 2009 and an average of nearly 52 percent between 2002 and ’09.

At that meeting in Long Island, in an obvious concession, the players offered to accept 48 percent of “all revenue,” a development first reported by ESPN’s Chris Mortensen. In exchange, according to the proposal, they would receive a more favorable salary-cap formula with higher per-team spending minimums than in the past and a provision that actual salary dollars must be spent toward achieving that figure, rather than “dead money” from contracts of players no longer on the team.

And unlike the owners’ final offer before the players walked away from the bargaining table on March 11, the “true up,” or back-end potential of the deal, was also addressed: If league revenues were to exceed projections during the term of the proposed CBA, the players’ split would drop as low as 46.5 percent, but they would still share in the windfall.

Sources on both sides say the owners indicated a willingness to work within that general framework, and there was a sense that other remaining issues, such as a rookie wage scale, a reduction in offseason workouts and a continued desire by owners to expand the regular season to 18 games, would be settled quickly once the revenue-split was solved.

Beginning last week, however, the momentum began to evaporate. What happened? Each side gives a very different story.

The players blame the owners for suddenly insisting upon “expense credits” that would reduce the all-revenue total by a significant margin (described by one source as “several hundred million dollars”), effectively reducing their share to 45 percent.

The players also balked at the owners’ insistence that the proposed “legacy fund” to aid retired players would come out of the salary cap – essentially meaning that the players, and not the league, would be responsible for those costs. Owners also clung to the possibility of adding two games to the regular season as early as 2014, a move to which most players are adamantly opposed.

Owners, meanwhile, claim that certain expense credits were part of the “all revenue” understanding achieved earlier this month and charge that the players are the ones attempting to change the terms. They are also frustrated by players’ insistence that “all revenue” should include a share of money generated by non-football events (such as rock concerts) at team-owned stadiums.

As for the notion that government taxes on game tickets should be included as revenue under the formula, rather than taken off the top, the owners are downright aghast. They claim that such sales-tax payments were not included among the revenue split in the previous CBA and that an accounting miscalculation by Price Waterhouse Coopers, the firm which monitors the salary cap (and which was commissioned by the NFLPA to calculate projected NFL revenues during the current negotiation), has misled the players into demanding the inclusion of those dollars into the formula.


Further, owners see a direct correlation between last week’s reappearances of Kessler (who was absent for Thursday’s sessions) and Quinn in the negotiating room and the negative turn the talks have taken.

Players, meanwhile, view NFL senior vice president and general counsel Peter Rucco as a divisive force who has played games with the revenue numbers in recent days.

As things have degenerated, Goodell and Smith have once again been caught in the crossfire. Players believe that Goodell lacks deal-making authority and hasn’t displayed the necessary leadership to build a consensus among the owners, his de facto employers.

Owners see Smith as someone unable to exert control over Kessler and Quinn, even though, according to a source familiar with negotiations, the NFLPA executive director conspicuously silenced Kessler during a session with owners two weeks ago, ordering him to “stand down.”

For his part Goodell, according to a source, screamed at owners during a meeting in Rosemont, Ill., early last week ago after his update to the group on the progress of negotiations was leaked to Mortensen, telling them such breaches in confidentiality were hurting the negotiation process.

For all of the negativity of recent days, there is still a possibility that the optimistic vibes each side experienced earlier in June can return, and that a deal can be reached in time to allow the league’s preseason opener – the Hall of Fame game between the Chicago Bears and St. Louis Rams in Canton, Ohio – to be played as scheduled on Aug. 7.

After all, once preseason games are canceled, the league will experience a loss in revenue that will make the overall deal less valuable for both sides. For this reason, TV network executives shouldn’t be the only ones who are nervous about this prospect; players and owners, too, should feel a sense of urgency. There is also the possibility that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit (which is deciding whether the lockout is legal) and federal judge David Doty (assessing how much players were damaged in the “lockout insurance” case against the owners) could issue rulings which create leverage imbalances that change the negotiation landscape and make a settlement more problematic.

Despite the recent negativity, there is cause to remain hopeful about a settlement. Unlike a few months ago, players no longer feel personally affronted by the owners, and the two sides have remained civil and professional in negotiation sessions.

The relationship between Smith and Goodell has also improved, a welcome development given the frostiness that once existed between the two men. On Tuesday night they flew together to Sarasota, Fla., where Goodell – at Smith’s invitation – addressed incoming rookies the following day at a symposium staged by the NFLPA.

Before Goodell spoke to the rookies, he and Smith had another meal together, a breakfast that one source described as “awkwardly comfortable.” They did not talk business, making a mutual effort to steer clear of controversial topics.

By Thursday night, as a marathon negotiation session between the two sides continued in Minneapolis, it was unclear whether Smith and Goodell were communicating on a higher level – or whether they were even speaking the same language.

If their mutual optimism doesn’t return soon, things could start to appear very bleak for anxious NFL fans.

Detoxing
07-01-2011, 03:26 PM
Seriously? The players want Ticket Sales Tax to be included as revenue? If the the owners are including as an expense, then yeah, that makes sense. Otherwise they can go fuck themselves.

And they want a piece of non-football events? Yeah fucking right, what are they smoking?

Cave Johnson
07-01-2011, 03:42 PM
Seriously? The players want Ticket Sales Tax to be included as revenue? If the the owners are including as an expense, then yeah, that makes sense. Otherwise they can go **** themselves.

And they want a piece of non-football events? Yeah ****ing right, what are they smoking?

The stadiums wouldn't exist but for the NFL teams/players. It's a colorable argument.

Just Passin' By
07-01-2011, 03:46 PM
Seriously? The players want Ticket Sales Tax to be included as revenue? If the the owners are including as an expense, then yeah, that makes sense. Otherwise they can go **** themselves.

And they want a piece of non-football events? Yeah ****ing right, what are they smoking?

The owners want to pay the players less money so they can put money into stadiums. Why should the owners be the only ones getting a return on that money when the players are kicking in? If the owners want to reap all the ancillary profits from the stadiums, let them invest all the money into them out of their portion of the pie instead of sticking it to the players.

Mr. Laz
07-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Apparently they've agreed on a % but now are debating what is all included in the %.

nobody really knows whether is was the players or owners who are wanting to tweak the total amount the % is going to come from