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View Full Version : Life Making Bail: Is It Fair?


Rain Man
06-28-2011, 12:50 PM
Maybe I'm the last person on earth to think about this, but it got me wondering.

Some audiophile got arrested here in Denver, and he's nasty. Did the whole stranger kidnap thing on some child, but then got caught.

The newscaster jokingly mentioned something like, "He's not going anywhere unless he has a whole lot of money" because the judge set his bond at $1 million.

It got me thinking about bond. So if this guy had committed the same crime, but 20 years ago he'd made a financial fortune doing something like internet videos of cute cats or investing in America Online or something, he could pay the million dollars and shrug and move on. But because he didn't have the cat video idea or beginner's internet idea, he sits in jail.

So what's the purpose of bail? It's apparently not safety to the public, because a rich pervert can get out while a poor pervert can't.

From a personal perspective I like it, because if I ever get arrested it's like a "get out of jail even if it's not free" card, and it seems like it's not a good social investment to keep people in jail if they could otherwise be working while they're awaiting trial. I can also see ratcheting it up for more serious crimes and making it low for minor crimes.

But I guess it kind of bugs me that a rich guy committing the same crime as a poor guy can make bail. Is there a better way to design the system, or is this just an inherent advantage of capitalism with the message of "Succeed in life and you'll spend less time in jail if you get into trouble"?

Dicky McElephant
06-28-2011, 12:55 PM
He can go to a bail bondsman (if he'll cover it) and he'll only have to pay 10%-15% of his bail.

Bump
06-28-2011, 12:56 PM
they just want money

Saul Good
06-28-2011, 12:56 PM
Its as fair as anything. I chuckle every time I hear "presumed innocent until proven guilty". That's a farce, or you wouldn't arrest someone if you presumed them to be innocent.

That said, bail seems to be set based on ability to pay at least to some extent.

Bump
06-28-2011, 12:56 PM
It's just like if a poor guy gets AIDS, he has to die, but if a rich guy gets AIDS, he can live just fine. Is that fair?

DA_T_84
06-28-2011, 12:59 PM
DEE THHEEEE

Rain Man
06-28-2011, 01:05 PM
It's just like if a poor guy gets AIDS, he has to die, but if a rich guy gets AIDS, he can live just fine. Is that fair?

I guess I view that a little differently because that only affects him. With a crime, it seems like it's something that could affect other people. If a woman is raped by a rich guy, I'd think she'd be concerned about him wandering around waiting for her to testify against him at trial. Same with any crime, I guess. A rich car thief (who apparently steals cars as a hobby) can get out, which seems like it would help him prepare for his trial, too, whereas a poor guy sits and waits and hopes his lawyer shows up.

OmahaChief
06-28-2011, 01:06 PM
Maybe I'm the last person on earth to think about this, but it got me wondering.

Some audiophile got arrested here in Denver, and he's nasty. Did the whole stranger kidnap thing on some child, but then got caught.



Did he kidnap the kid for their high quality stereo system?

MOhillbilly
06-28-2011, 01:13 PM
He can go to a bail bondsman (if he'll cover it) and he'll only have to pay 10%-15% of his bail.

you would think higher bail coupled w/ the severity of the crime that a bondsman would want closer to 50%.

Dicky McElephant
06-28-2011, 01:19 PM
you would think higher bailed coupled w/ the severity of the crime that a bondsman would want closer to 50%.

Depends on how shady the bondsman is.

Garcia Bronco
06-28-2011, 01:20 PM
Maybe I'm the last person on earth to think about this, but it got me wondering.

Some audiophile got arrested here in Denver, and he's nasty. Did the whole stranger kidnap thing on some child, but then got caught.

The newscaster jokingly mentioned something like, "He's not going anywhere unless he has a whole lot of money" because the judge set his bond at $1 million.

It got me thinking about bond. So if this guy had committed the same crime, but 20 years ago he'd made a financial fortune doing something like internet videos of cute cats or investing in America Online or something, he could pay the million dollars and shrug and move on. But because he didn't have the cat video idea or beginner's internet idea, he sits in jail.

So what's the purpose of bail? It's apparently not safety to the public, because a rich pervert can get out while a poor pervert can't.

From a personal perspective I like it, because if I ever get arrested it's like a "get out of jail even if it's not free" card, and it seems like it's not a good social investment to keep people in jail if they could otherwise be working while they're awaiting trial. I can also see ratcheting it up for more serious crimes and making it low for minor crimes.

But I guess it kind of bugs me that a rich guy committing the same crime as a poor guy can make bail. Is there a better way to design the system, or is this just an inherent advantage of capitalism with the message of "Succeed in life and you'll spend less time in jail if you get into trouble"?

Bail is set on ability to pay. So the DA in your example will make that known if someone is a flight risk.

Demonpenz
06-28-2011, 01:22 PM
if you are rich you wouldn't get arrested in the first place

MOhillbilly
06-28-2011, 01:23 PM
Depends on how shady the bondsman is.


TBH once a kid raper get picked up he/she is probably safer in seg pop/shu than on the street.

Rain Man
06-28-2011, 01:25 PM
Bail is set on ability to pay. So the DA in your example will make that known if someone is a flight risk.


Okay, that makes a difference.


So...now it's biased against rich people because they have to pay more for the same freedom.

Maybe I'm just feeling cantankerous today.

DJ's left nut
06-28-2011, 01:26 PM
Bail is set on ability to pay. So the DA in your example will make that known if someone is a flight risk.

Precisely.

It's also based on the public threat you would present if released again. Oddly enough, its why some folks that do something like murder their wife for insurance money tend to have reasonable bail.

At that point, they've killed who they're going to kill so they're not a true public threat. They don't have the insurance money in hand so it's not like they can jet off to Europe and are therefore no great flight risk. And if they were in dire enough financial straights to murder for money, they probably don't have an incredible means to pay either.

Meanwhile, a serial rapist (threat to the public) or a corporate raider (flight risk in that he could easily liquidate and move to a non-extradition country) may have a much higher bail set.

Bail's not any more inherently unfair than anything else in our legal system...or society in general really. If anything, it at least makes an attempt to look at one's finances before setting the price, unlike, I dunno...cancer or something.

DJ's left nut
06-28-2011, 01:27 PM
Okay, that makes a difference.


So...now it's biased against rich people because they have to pay more for the same freedom.

Maybe I'm just feeling cantankerous today.

If you come back, you get your money back (unless you're paying a bail bondsman).

It's not a tax, but collateral on your return.

MOhillbilly
06-28-2011, 01:30 PM
If you come back, you get your money back (unless you're paying a bail bondsman).

It's not a tax, but collateral on your return.

one of the best moments of my life was gettin my bail money back when no one showed to court.

Dave Lane
06-28-2011, 02:19 PM
That's not how it works. He would get out till trial on bond. Then they would take him to jail if found guilty. Its that pesky presumed innocent till found guilty thing. Plus because of the nature of the crime, they probably would have a ankle thing on him and he'd be on house arrest would be my guess.

So for a $1 million he could get to stay home until he went to prison.

Maybe I'm the last person on earth to think about this, but it got me wondering.

Some audiophile got arrested here in Denver, and he's nasty. Did the whole stranger kidnap thing on some child, but then got caught.

The newscaster jokingly mentioned something like, "He's not going anywhere unless he has a whole lot of money" because the judge set his bond at $1 million.

It got me thinking about bond. So if this guy had committed the same crime, but 20 years ago he'd made a financial fortune doing something like internet videos of cute cats or investing in America Online or something, he could pay the million dollars and shrug and move on. But because he didn't have the cat video idea or beginner's internet idea, he sits in jail.

So what's the purpose of bail? It's apparently not safety to the public, because a rich pervert can get out while a poor pervert can't.

From a personal perspective I like it, because if I ever get arrested it's like a "get out of jail even if it's not free" card, and it seems like it's not a good social investment to keep people in jail if they could otherwise be working while they're awaiting trial. I can also see ratcheting it up for more serious crimes and making it low for minor crimes.

But I guess it kind of bugs me that a rich guy committing the same crime as a poor guy can make bail. Is there a better way to design the system, or is this just an inherent advantage of capitalism with the message of "Succeed in life and you'll spend less time in jail if you get into trouble"?

Backwards Masking
06-28-2011, 02:36 PM
If the scumbag who posted the $1 million gets busted again for the same thing, he'll have to pay $2-3 million the next time he gets busted. At some point they'll be a public outcry if this happens over and over, but the state/government will milk this guy's finable offense as many times as they can before it comes to that.

So, yes, succeed in life and you'll spend less time in jail if you get into trouble. That's absolutely one of the inherent advantages of capitalism. Hell OJ got off of double first degree murder when was rich, and got the book thrown at him for petty theft when he was poor. Perfect example.

rocknrolla
06-28-2011, 02:55 PM
Money is a get of jail card. OJ Simpson.
Need I say more.

Sweet Daddy Hate
06-28-2011, 03:02 PM
Did he kidnap the kid for their high quality stereo system?

LMAO My thought exactly.

Just Passin' By
06-28-2011, 03:41 PM
Money is a get of jail card. OJ Simpson.
Need I say more.

If O.J. had been a rich, relatively unknown white guy, he'd probably have been found guilty.


O.J. walked due to race and celebrity more than money.

KurtCobain
06-28-2011, 04:06 PM
If O.J. had been a rich, relatively unknown white guy, he'd probably have been found guilty.


O.J. walked due to race and celebrity more than money.

Umm no, he walked thanks to Johnnie Cochran. And Cochran demanded a lot of money.

mikeyis4dcats.
06-28-2011, 09:08 PM
it's a scale. If the avergae person gets bail set at $1mil, someone of means would be seeing a bond much higher accordingly.

Okie_Apparition
06-28-2011, 09:13 PM
I wonder if they don't put perverts bail alot cheaper than other crimes. Once the other criminals find out what they're in there for, they get the living shit beat out of them. Then the jail is held responsible for their medical bills & probably get sued to boot

Spott
06-28-2011, 10:45 PM
So did Dane make bail or not?

ThaVirus
06-28-2011, 10:48 PM
I'm not guilty. YOU'RE the one that's guilty. The lawmakers, the politicians, the Columbian drug lords, all you who lobby against making drugs legal. Just like you did with alcohol during the prohibition. You're the one who's guilty. I mean, c'mon, let's kick the ballistics here: Ain't no Uzi's made in Harlem. Not one of us in here owns a poppy field. This thing is bigger than Nino Brown. This is big business. This is the American way

Mr. Flopnuts
06-29-2011, 12:36 AM
As my Daddy once said, "Don't do the crime, if you can't AFFORD the time". Money talks. The bullshit walks. Face it, if you have enough money, you're above the law. OJ approves this message. Dude beat a murder rap, but was too broke to beat the robbery rap. And he clearly commited both crimes. You be the judge.

Mr. Flopnuts
06-29-2011, 12:39 AM
Heh, I see I'm not the only one who made the OJ reference. Perfect example.

Over-Head
06-29-2011, 05:50 AM
No bail aint fair...had to pick a side, so fuck it.