PDA

View Full Version : U.S. Issues FDA unleashes end game scheme to outlaw virtually all dietary supplements formulated


KILLER_CLOWN
07-06-2011, 10:36 PM
Wednesday, July 06, 2011
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com

(NaturalNews) In the wake of hundreds of dietary supplements recently being outlawed across the EU, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has quietly unleashed a regulatory scheme that, if fully implemented, could ban virtually all dietary supplements in the USA that were formulated after 1994.

That means nearly all superfoods, multivitamins, detox supplements, and medicinal herbal products we have all come to depend on to prevent disease and boost our immune health could soon be stripped from store shelves and outlawed across the nation. I call it the "End Game" of the FDA's war against humanity: Phase one was the enforcement of nutritional ignorance by threatening and raiding companies that dared to make truthful health claims on their own websites (http://www.naturalnews.com/021791.html). Phase two involves "nuking" the entire dietary supplements industry by simply denying the use of nearly all the ingredients presently used in supplement products.

An effort to destroy nearly all modern supplements?
The discovery of this new End Game strategy by the FDA to outlaw virtually all dietary supplements comes to us from the Alliance for Natural Health, the leading health freedom non-profit group in America, and the group that consistently reports fact-based information on how the FDA and FTC are squashing health freedom in America. Their most recent announcement, entitled FDA's New Sneak Attack on Supplements (http://www.anh-usa.org/fda-new-snea...) explains how this new assault on your freedom is being engineered by the FDA.

Here's the brief story of where this comes from and how the FDA is now waging a new war on our vitamins, herbs and supplements:

In 1994, after years of armed raids, oppression and censorship by the FDA, Congress passed a law known as DSHEA. This is the law that essentially forced the FDA to stop regulating dietary supplements out of existence, and groups such as the Life Extension Foundation (www.LEF.org) were instrumental in helping get this law passed in 1994.

But one of the little-known sections of the law required dietary supplement manufacturers to "notify" the FDA any time they used a new ingredient in their formulations. However, the details on how supplement companies were supposed to abide by these notification guidelines (called "NDI" or New Dietary Ingredient rules) were never published by the FDA, and since 1994, this entire section of DSHEA has remained essentially unenforced (or selectively enforced).

Now, suddenly, the FDA has decided it wants to enforce NDI, and its enforcement of this technicality would essentially amount to the FDA denying permission to use nearly all dietary supplement ingredients introduced since 1994. So last Friday, the FDA proposed its new rules on NDI -- on the Friday before a long weekend, no less, which is a common tactic government uses when it wants to do something that nobody notices -- and these new rules run the risk of being adopted as active regulations, threatening virtually the entire dietary supplement industry with an eventual shutdown.

Why did the FDA wait 17 years to take action on NDI rules? Believe it or not, this was mandated under the new Food Safety Bill (S.510 remember?) that Congress passed into law late last year without even reading the bill (http://www.naturalnews.com/030789_F...). So now, the FDA has been forced into issuing these new guidelines, and it obviously is going to take every opportunity it can to destroy the nutritional supplements industry (and thereby protect the profits of Big Pharma).

FDA goes Fukushima on dietary supplements
Importantly, nearly all vitamin and supplement ingredients could soon be banned under the FDA's new NDI rules because very few supplement ingredients can be conclusively shown to have been widely used BEFORE 1994. As the ANH points out, the FDA recently banned a common form of vitamin B6 by claiming the vitamin was a "drug" that was never "approved" for use in supplements (http://www.anh-usa.org/when-is-a-vi...).

That story is also covered here on NaturalNews: http://www.naturalnews.com/025606_v...

The upshot of all this is that by issuing new guidelines on the NDI requirements, the FDA can now essentially disallow the use of virtually all supplement ingredients that exist in the market today. As ANH warns:

"We fear that they will use this power to ban any supplement innovation unless the supplement is turned into a drug and brought through the drug approval process. Since nobody can afford to pay for the new drug approval process if the substance is not patented, and supplements generally already exist in nature and cannot therefore be patented, to require full new drug approval is to ensure that there will be no new supplements. This should suit the drug industry very well and, based on past behavior, the FDA as well."

Supplement companies would need to seek FDA approval for all their formulations
Through this clever trick with NDI rules, the FDA can now position itself as the gatekeeper for all supplement approvals. Far from merely being a requirement to "notify" the FDA of the use of new ingredients, NDI rules essentially subject supplements to approval from the FDA.

As the FDA has proven time and time again, it can simply refuse to approve anything used in natural products. Even today, the FDA refuses to approve walnuts for preventing heart disease, or vitamin C preventing scurvy. The FDA won't even admit that vitamin D can prevent rickets! Imagine the difficulty of trying to get the FDA to approve cherry extracts, or Chinese medicine herbs, or glucosamine for that matter. Nearly all the top supplements you've come to enjoy and value over the last two and a half decades are now threatened with being utterly outlawed and stripped off the shelves.

The FDA, in other words, is now gearing up to gut the natural products industry, bankrupt vitamin retailers and enslave the American people in a system of failed chemical medicine where they now have zero options for natural nutritional therapies. This, of course, would cause chronic disease rates to explode across the nation, greatly enriching the pharmaceutical industry and cancer treatment centers, all of which must be cheering these proposed new rules as a great way to recruit new patients who can then be milked for profits.

But synthetic drugs need no notification approval!
Amazingly (or maybe not, if you know the FDA), the new NDI rules state that synthetic copies of natural molecules are exempted from any new reporting requirements. Thus, drug companies that commit biopiracy and steal molecules from nature then turn them into chemical drugs are exempted from this whole thing. But natural product companies offering safe, effective and full-spectrum nutrients made by Mother Nature are suddenly put out of business.

These rules are selectively applied, in other words, only to natural products, not synthetic chemicals. It is yet another monopolistic betrayal of the American people by the FDA, an agency that has consistently and maliciously taken every opportunity to protect the drug companies while destroying the natural products industry. (http://www.naturalnews.com/021952.html)

"In these proposed rules, the FDA has effectively created a de facto pre-market approval system" for nutritional supplements, says the ANH. And the FDA will, of course, routinely deny virtually all supplement ingredients from ever being approved. Because the FDA is already on the record with its position that there is no such thing as any vitamin, nutrient, herb or food that has any biological effect whatsoever that could prevent, cure or reverse any disease or health condition.

That's the FDA's official position! With that kind of distortion, it is impossible for this agency to ever recognize the innate ability of any natural ingredient to actually produce a health benefit.

Take action now
Help us oppose the FDA's proposed new rules by signing this online petition. Click here for the petition.

Once again, your representatives in Washington need to hear from you -- pronto! -- if you hope to maintain your right to purchase vitamins and supplements in the USA.

Lest you think this is an exaggerated warning, keep in mind that hundreds of dietary supplements have just been banned across the EU (http://www.naturalnews.com/032302_h...). Regulators in the USA are gunning for the same kind of wipeout of the supplements industry as a way to lock in decades of disease profits for Big Pharma and the greed-driven cancer industry (which cares far more about treating cancer than preventing it).

If these new FDA regulations go into effect, your access to dietary supplements could simply disappear before the end of this year, turning vitamin sellers into "criminal dealers" and "smugglers" (much like raw milk retailers today). Armed FDA raids would be conducted on vitamin and supplement companies, and the founders of those companies would be rounded up and sent to prison for their "crimes" of selling unapproved ingredients.

This is the FDA's end game. Even if the FDA only partially enforces this new rule, it would still place a heavy compliance burden on small nutritional supplement companies. As the ANH says, "The bottom line is that when new and unreasonable burdens are placed on supplement manufacturers, it immediately becomes a financial increase for consumers. And if the pressure becomes too great, the nutritional supplements on which you rely may simply become unavailable."

That's exactly what the FDA wants, of course: To put dietary supplement companies out of business, leaving the field open only to those pharma-chemical vitamin companies largely owned by the drug companies themselves. They use synthetic chemicals which are NOT subjected to these new FDA rules. Many of those synthetic vitamins are, in essence, poisons. Isn't it interesting that the FDA says companies need no approval to use poisons in their formulations, but they need FDA permission to use natural substances that actually prevent disease?

Learn more at the ANH: http://www.anh-usa.org/fda-new-snea...

And please consider supporting this outstanding group with a donation so that it can continue its mission of staying on top of legislative and regulatory issues that impact our health freedoms. NaturalNews is a long-time ANH supporter, and we honor the work this group is doing.

Read the FDA recommended regulations yourself
You can view them at:

http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/DietarySupplements/ucm257563.htm#top

Bump
07-06-2011, 11:10 PM
this is so people will go to the hospital more, they are all connected in this evil profit care scheme that nobody can see.

Silock
07-06-2011, 11:12 PM
I'm torn. On one hand, there are a few supplements that are good. On the other hand, most of them are absolute junk that do jack shit for anyone. The ratio of bad to good is probably in the 1000:1 range, though.

That being said -- not gonna happen, anyway.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 01:00 AM
I'm torn. On one hand, there are a few supplements that are good. On the other hand, most of them are absolute junk that do jack shit for anyone. The ratio of bad to good is probably in the 1000:1 range, though.

That being said -- not gonna happen, anyway.

So just because in your opinion some are junk they should be banned? I hear the FDA is hiring, although you would have a better shot working your way up the ladder in one of the pharmaceutical companies and then using the revolving door there.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 01:01 AM
this is so people will go to the hospital more, they are all connected in this evil profit care scheme that nobody can see.

Don't touch my supplements, you can keep your voodoo mainstream sorcery and i'll keep my gifts from God.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 01:20 AM
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q2BfqDUPL1I?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q2BfqDUPL1I?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Silock
07-07-2011, 03:30 AM
So just because in your opinion some are junk they should be banned? I hear the FDA is hiring, although you would have a better shot working your way up the ladder in one of the pharmaceutical companies and then using the revolving door there.

It's not my opinion that most are junk. It's backed up by scientific evidence.

But whatever.

I didn't even say I wanted them all banned. It would be nice if the junk ones were, though. What's wrong with that?

Direckshun
07-07-2011, 04:02 AM
It's like whomever wrote this headline was disallowed from using anything but the most emotional, incendiary language possible.

UNLEASHES

END GAME

SCHEME

OUTLAW

VIRTUALLY ALL

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 05:04 AM
It's not my opinion that most are junk. It's backed up by scientific evidence.
So if most are junk, saying some aren't, ALL of them should be banned?

But whatever.

I didn't even say I wanted them all banned. It would be nice if the junk ones were, though. What's wrong with that?

O.M.G. As if those are hurting anyone. Vitamins and minerals are just food. Most of our food is junk too. Might as well ban food too.

What happened to your pro-liberty principles? You'd actually trust a single federal agency run by bureaucrats to be able to know what's best for you, and everyone else, especially with a carte blanche approach? This is nutrition and health totalitarianism.

Did you ever think that the dietary supplements that are junk are from the places were bought out by Big Pharma who has been lowering the percentages of the nutrition in those bottles? They really love to outlaw their competition since more natural approaches have been increasing because of health care costs.

Silock
07-07-2011, 05:20 AM
So if most are junk, saying some aren't, ALL of them should be banned?

Show me where I said that. You even QUOTED where I said they shouldn't ALL be banned.

O.M.G. As if those are hurting anyone.

Actually, yeah, they CAN. This is only one example, but there are plenty of studies out there showing that there are many supplements with similar properties.

http://www.asbestosincancer.com/high-dose-vitamin-e-causes-lung-cancer/

See, there comes a point when something good for you becomes something BAD for you. There are lots of vitamins and minerals that the body needs, but getting too much of some of them can cause significant problems.

Vitamins and minerals are just food. Most of our food is junk too. Might as well ban food too.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. You nailed it.

What happened to your pro-liberty principles? You'd actually trust a single federal agency run by bureaucrats to be able to know what's best for you, and everyone else, especially with a carte blanche approach?

Not at all. Again, that's not what I said.

Did you ever think that the dietary supplements that are junk are from the places were bought out by Big Pharma who has been lowering the percentages of the nutrition in those bottles? They really love to outlaw their competition since more natural approaches have been increasing because of health care costs.

Big Pharma doesn't own everything. And it's not that it's just certain BRANDS that are ineffective; it's that there are entire TYPES of supplements that do absolutely nothing for you that are just a waste of money.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 05:48 AM
Show me where I said that. You even QUOTED where I said they shouldn't ALL be banned.
Wha...wha...? Quoting it doesn't mean I am saying you said that. Quoting it can mean I am I am talking to you or addressing that part of your response. In this case your response in reference to the thread title, which DOES call for a draconian solution, which you were torn about. You did not come across as seeing a problem with a sweeping ban.

Actually, yeah, they CAN. This is only one example, but there are plenty of studies out there showing that there are many supplements with similar properties.

http://www.asbestosincancer.com/high-dose-vitamin-e-causes-lung-cancer/

Every nutrition book that discusses supplementation I have read, will also tell you that the non-water soluble vitamins can build up in your body and be unhealthy. That's Vitamin A and E. I also know that it's rare for people to do it because it takes so much to do that. That can be handled with a simple warning. Most of them are water soluable and get peed out.


See, there comes a point when something good for you becomes something BAD for you.
That's true with sugar, food; even protein and carbs. I might as well add too much sun and too little sun. Regulate everyone on them then.

There are lots of vitamins and minerals that the body needs, but getting too much of some of them can cause significant problems.
Again, this is a sweeping generality and exaggeration. Most of them are water soluable and if the body doesn't need them they get pissed out.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. You nailed it.
Where did I say you said that? Nowhere. I was making a comment comparing what you were implying since you were torn as opposed to be appalled.


Not at all. Again, that's not what I said.
Your statement implied it this was not a bad for the govt to do this because "most most of them are absolute junk that do jack shit for anyone. The ratio of bad to good is probably in the 1000:1 range, though. " You didn't even say a few were dangerous but only a few were good. Either way, if they're just junk ( like junk food) and don't do much good how can you even be torn about such a draconian solution? That's what came across as not pro-liberty because are free to be dumb. Then ones where overdosing can be dangerous only needs a warning on a label as sufficient. Now if there were mass casualties from those then I can see some regulation.


Big Pharma doesn't own everything.

Oh, oh, oh.......I didn't say that either. I specifically said the places that Bid Pharma bought because they have been doing this. They bought one place I buy at and they have reduced the strengths in vitamins. They've only been behind seeking bans on supplements for at least twenty years. They didn't get what they wanted so they resorted to buying more places that make these supplements or sell them. They have succeeded in getting rid some supplements too.

And it's not that it's just certain BRANDS that are ineffective; it's that there are entire TYPES of supplements that do absolutely nothing for you that are just a waste of money.
So what! People are free to be dumb if you wanna think that. Why are you saying this in a thread about a govt agency outlawing virtually all dietary supplements then?

No one who is pro-liberty would think this is right.

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 07:03 AM
It's like whomever wrote this headline was disallowed from using anything but the most emotional, incendiary language possible.

UNLEASHES

END GAME

SCHEME

OUTLAW

VIRTUALLY ALL

That's the way the mainstream media does it too. TERROR TERRORIST TERRORISM TERROR (did I say Terrorist....no........well terrorist terrorist terrorist)

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 07:06 AM
I saw this out there too. It's crazy that they can pass through all of the bullshit pills they come up with that leave you feeling worse than you were but want to ban wheatgrass or probiotics, another government agency fucking the people over. YAY!!!

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 07:10 AM
I saw this out there too. It's crazy that they can pass through all of the bullshit pills they come up with that leave you feeling worse than you were but want to ban wheatgrass or probiotics, another government agency ****ing the people over. YAY!!!

Yeah, and thousands of deaths occur from the drugs they allow as well. Has there been that amount of deaths from a food supplement? LOL!

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 07:25 AM
Yeah, and thousands of deaths occur from the drugs they allow as well. Has there been that amount of deaths from a food supplement? LOL!

It's crazy, and the even more crazy thing is people will back it.

ClevelandBronco
07-07-2011, 07:36 AM
It's crazy, and the even more crazy thing is peole will back it.

Pioli will back it? That's crazy.

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 07:39 AM
Pioli will back it? That's crazy.

LOL OOPS Fixed

petegz28
07-07-2011, 07:40 AM
They don't want you taking your drugs...they want you taking THEIR drugs

Silock
07-07-2011, 07:57 AM
That can be handled with a simple warning. Most of them are water soluable and get peed out.

Most, but not all. And who's going to issue the warning? I'm guessing the FDA.

That's true with sugar, food; even protein and carbs. I might as well add too much sun and too little sun. Regulate everyone on them then.

It's not an issue of regulation so much as it is about education. We are constantly bombarded about the negative effects of excessive amounts of things like sugar or sunlight. The same is not true of supplements that are harmful (or flat-out don't work), and it's not even a contest.

Again, this is a sweeping generality and exaggeration. Most of them are water soluable and if the body doesn't need them they get pissed out.

Uh, looking at the back of a multi-vitamin bottle, I see more than just a handful that are non-water soluble and harmful in excessive dosages. Yes, many of them are minerals, and those tend to be packaged together with multivitamins (although not all are).

Where did I say you said that? Nowhere. I was making a comment comparing what you were implying since you were torn as opposed to be appalled.

I wasn't implying that, though. You inferred it.

Either way, if they're just junk ( like junk food) and don't do much good how can you even be torn about such a draconian solution?

Because the few that aren't are REALLY good for you?

They bought one place I buy at and they have reduced the strengths in vitamins.

So what? There's not much scientific evidence that multivitamins really do much for a person that eats a varied diet. Even still, if someone IS vitamin deficient, it won't be in every vitamin, and can easily be figured from a simple blood test.

So what! People are free to be dumb if you wanna think that. Why are you saying this in a thread about a govt agency outlawing virtually all dietary supplements then?

Because it's NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. The supplement industry is one of the largest industries in the world, and it's not going anywhere, any time soon. They have LOTS of money and LOTS of power.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 10:14 AM
The FDA is fairly useless and does way more harm than good. I don't need them telling me what i can and can't have, I can make my own decisions. If some are buying snake oil what's the problem? We should have the freedom to vote with our wallets, TV Evangelists steal peoples money too, should they be banned by the FDA?

HonestChieffan
07-07-2011, 10:18 AM
Why shouldnt these outfits be required to 1) prove their claims...that would run 90% off. and 2) require them to fit standards on ingredients.

Most is hokum and witchcraft anyway.

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 10:19 AM
The FDA is fairly useless and does way more harm than good. I don't need them telling me what i can and can't have, I can make my own decisions. If some are buying snake oil what's the problem? We should have the freedom to vote with our wallets, TV Evangelists steal peoples money too, should they be banned by the FDA?

There is a continuation of this story, here is a piece of it........"Synthetic molecules that mimic dietary supplements (i.e. those used in pharmaceuticals) are EXEMPTED from all these requirements! So synthetic molecules need no approval from the FDA, while the natural ones do! This conveniently exempts the pharmaceutical vitamin companies who use synthetic vitamin chemicals rather than natural, full-spectrum nutrients."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/032924_dietary_supplements_FDA_approval.html

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Why shouldnt these outfits be required to 1) prove their claims...that would run 90% off. and 2) require them to fit standards on ingredients.

Most is hokum and witchcraft anyway.

The disclaimer is on the label, "THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FDA" If you don't know what is in it and haven't researched it, then it's on you. It's extremely rare to see someone with a problem from vitamins and supplements yet hundreds of thousands die from drug interactions every year. The latin word for sorcery is Pharmacia.

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Why shouldnt these outfits be required to 1) prove their claims...that would run 90% off. and 2) require them to fit standards on ingredients.

Most is hokum and witchcraft anyway.


ROFL witchcraft ROFL

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 10:22 AM
The disclaimer is on the label, "THESE STATEMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN EVALUATED BY THE FDA" If you don't know what is in it and haven't researched it, then it's on you. It's extremely rare to see someone with a problem from vitamins and supplements yet hundreds of thousands die from drug interactions every year.

What you said doesn't count Clown, CBS told me that it is bad and prescriptions are good so boo on you

Brock
07-07-2011, 10:23 AM
List the supplements you take daily.

Me:
CoEnzyme Q10
Fish Oil
sometimes Creatine
sometimes HMB
low dose aspirin

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 10:27 AM
List the supplements you take daily.

Me:
CoEnzyme Q10
Fish Oil
sometimes Creatine
sometimes HMB
low dose aspirin

CoQ10
Alkamax
FIsh Oil or Flax oil
MSM
Iodine(low dose mcg)
Coral Calcium

not daily but a few times a year

Milk Thistle
Wormwood Combination
Echinacea
Detox Foot Pads
Whole Body Cleanse(once a year)

HonestChieffan
07-07-2011, 10:29 AM
Ive found that rubbing my head with the one year growth of Osage Orange limbs growing on the north side of 20 year old osage orange trees relieves me of the embarrassment of psoriasis and I seem to have warded off neuralgia.

The bark will soon be available in a powdered form to add to shampoo so others can reclaim their lives from these afflictions.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 10:32 AM
Ive found that rubbing my head with the one year growth of Osage Orange limbs growing on the north side of 20 year old osage orange trees relieves me of the embarrassment of psoriasis and I seem to have warded off neuralgia.

The bark will soon be available in a powdered form to add to shampoo so others can reclaim their lives from these afflictions.

Heh probably cheaper than the $500/mo "Maintenance" from the pharmaceutical companies.

HonestChieffan
07-07-2011, 10:40 AM
Heh probably cheaper than the $500/mo "Maintenance" from the pharmaceutical companies.


Im gonna price it at $560.00. Why would I price it cheaper when its wholesome, natural, and hand harvested and ground into the powder form?


But, that premium is worth it since it is organic, US Grown, and I will package it in recycled water bottles. And $5 from every sale will go to supporting a sweat lodge building project I plan to implement in South Dakota.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 10:45 AM
I take B Complex, Pro-Biotics and Fish Oil for my eyes bescause a Med doctor prescribed it and it worked. I take salt and potassium tablets during Florida summers depending on how long I am out or sweating. I can feel the difference if I don't take B-Complex or the Pro-Biotics. I can see the difference in my eyes when I omit the fish oil.

I used to take All-in-One Powder, an all around that's more easily absorbed, but I got lazy. I really should go back to it. I have used Mega Vitamin therapy under a Natural Internist using blood work and other tests, for specific treatments temporarily and both times it worked wonderfully. I take powdered Vitamin C cyrstals if I feel some ailment coming such as a sore throat and it has gone away each and every time. I have used the same to bring down a fever in a child....and yes that's another use that works.

I would never buy the crap from drugstores or the supermarket. I get tested to see if my body will absorb the brand and I prefer to get certain ones from my chiro/nutritionist/internal medicine doctor. Many people don't absorb some brands......perhaps that's why they don't work or their junk from Wall Mart, CVS or Walgreens. In fact I prefer capsules because some tablets do not breakdown such as the B-Complex ones.

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 10:51 AM
For now just B complex and probiotics in pill form. My wife and I also make water kefir (look it up). I was taking some powder but stopped a while back

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 10:56 AM
I'm thinking of adding Vitamin D based on the articles I read on Dr. Mercola. That's one that can be overdosed on though but he says most Americans are deficient.

loochy
07-07-2011, 10:57 AM
List the supplements you take daily.

Me:
CoEnzyme Q10
Fish Oil
sometimes Creatine
sometimes HMB
low dose aspirin

Ephedrine HCL
Caffiene
Aspirin
Yohimbine HCL
Creatine
Whey Protein Powder
Casein Protein Powder
Multivitamin / multimineral

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm thinking of adding Vitamin D based on the articles I read on Dr. Mercola. That's one that can be overdosed on though but he says most Americans are deficient.

Ya overdosage starts at about 15000 IU's for most peeps, and I haven't seen a single death from overdosage.

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 11:07 AM
I hear the lack of vitamin d is one of the cause for a lot of diseases

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 11:10 AM
I hear the lack of vitamin d is one of the cause for a lot of diseases

Yup, that's what he said. The stay out of the sun mantra has done that. You have to have a certain amount of sun daily apparently.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 11:11 AM
I can't believe anyone takes aspirin daily as a supplement. That creates other damage....like to the stomach.

durtyrute
07-07-2011, 11:16 AM
Yup, that's what he said. The stay out of the sun mantra has done that. You have to have a certain amount of sun daily apparently.

I don't understand the whole "the sun is bad for you" thing. Without it we would all die. Of course too much of anything is bad for you, but the sun. "Oh but we have some sunscreen with all of the toxic chemicals in it for you. You want it.....huh........huh.......pay me bitch"

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 11:20 AM
I don't understand the whole "the sun is bad for you" thing. Without it we would all die. Of course too much of anything is bad for you, but the sun. "Oh but we have some sunscreen with all of the toxic chemicals in it for you. You want it.....huh........huh.......pay my bitch"

The same is true regarding salt. In the tropics or tropical weather you need it or you can die. Not enough has killed some people—elderly generally. Unless a person has seriously hi-blood pressure. I get nauseous, lightheaded and have nearly passed out from the heat here. I know I need salt and/or potassium and it goes away. I once stopped in a restaurant while walking in the city and got some soup. Handled it. It helps a body hold onto fluid which acts as a cooling system for the body in intense heat. Same with lo-fat diets. You need some fat including saturated.

Pants
07-07-2011, 11:22 AM
I can't believe anyone takes aspirin daily as a supplement. That creates other damage....like to the stomach.

That's why they make them enteric-coated nowadays.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 11:24 AM
I can't believe anyone takes aspirin daily as a supplement. That creates other damage....like to the stomach.

Bad for your liver also.

Pants
07-07-2011, 11:30 AM
Bad for your liver also.

Not if you're taking 81mg/day.

loochy
07-07-2011, 11:30 AM
Not if you're taking 81mg/day.

325mg

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 11:31 AM
Not if you're taking 81mg/day.

This all depends on what shape your liver is in, if it's already overloaded and working too hard i would say avoid everything you can within reason that taxes the liver.

vailpass
07-07-2011, 11:34 AM
Not if you're taking 81mg/day.

Yep. My cardiologist is a Mayo doc and this is exactly what he tells me to do every year when I get checked up.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 11:37 AM
Yep. My cardiologist is a Mayo doc and this is exactly what he tells me to do every year when I get checked up.

My sister went to the Mayo clinic and they recommended a neck surgery and as it turns out she didn't need it and will have problems the rest of her life as a direct result of the unneeded surgery. She really regrets having listened to their expert opinions.

vailpass
07-07-2011, 11:41 AM
My sister went to the Mayo clinic and they recommended a neck surgery and as it turns out she didn't need it and will have problems the rest of her life as a direct result of the unneeded surgery. She really regrets having listened to their expert opinions.

I hear you, Mayo Clinic sucks.
LMAO

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 11:45 AM
I hear you, Mayo Clinic sucks.
LMAO

So i gather you don't take your cardio doctors advice?

Jaric
07-07-2011, 11:46 AM
The same is true regarding salt. In the tropics or tropical weather you need it or you can die. Not enough has killed some people—elderly generally. Unless a person has seriously hi-blood pressure. I get nauseous, lightheaded and have nearly passed out from the heat here. I know I need salt and/or potassium and it goes away. I once stopped in a restaurant while walking in the city and got some soup. Handled it. It helps a body hold onto fluid which acts as a cooling system for the body in intense heat. Same with lo-fat diets. You need some fat including saturated.

There is a reason salt is one of the four "tastes" recognizable to your tongue.

vailpass
07-07-2011, 11:47 AM
So i gather you don't take your cardio doctors advice?

I don't know what you mean by this. I'm not a tin foil kind of guy, I go with the percentages and am pretty traditional on most things. You won't sway me into the conspiracy camp on this or any other subject.

vailpass
07-07-2011, 11:48 AM
There is a reason salt is one of the four "tastes" recognizable to your tongue.

So they can tell when you are finished?

Brock
07-07-2011, 11:49 AM
I can't believe anyone takes aspirin daily as a supplement. That creates other damage....like to the stomach.

No, it doesn't. It's low dose, slow release. It cuts your risk of stroke by 2/3.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 11:49 AM
I don't know what you mean by this. I'm not a tin foil kind of guy, I go with the percentages and am pretty traditional on most things. You won't sway me into the conspiracy camp on this or any other subject.

Tinfoil has no part in the equation, i was asking if you took aspirin as directed by your cardiologist?

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 11:52 AM
The Aspirin Myth -- Does it Really Help You?
Posted By Dr. Mercola | January 07 2006 | 5,029 views

Over 10 percent of patients who take low-dose aspirin to ward off a heart attack develop peptic ulcers, which often have no symptoms.

This was the finding of researchers from the University of Western Sydney in Australia. Using endoscopy, they studied 187 patients who had been taking between 75 milligrams and 325 milligrams of aspirin daily for at least one month.

An Annual Ulcer Rate of 28 Percent

The researchers found that 10.7 percent of patients in their study developed ulcers at least 3 millimeters in diameter. However, only 20 percent experienced symptoms that were significantly different from patients with no ulcers, which means many people may not know the ulcers exist.

After three months, the endoscopy was repeated among the 113 people who did not have ulcers when the study began. It was found that:

* Over 7 percent had developed an ulcer during this period
* This boosted the annual ulcer rate to 28 percent

Other factors that increased the risk of developing ulcers included being 70 years of age or older or having a bacterial infection with H. pylori.

The researchers said the benefits of using aspirin should be carefully assessed before those who have low cardiovascular risk take it for a long-term period.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2036.2005.02649.x?prevSearch=allfield%3A%28aspirin%2C+ulcers%29

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051212/hl_nm/peptic_ulcers_dc

Dr. Mercola's Comments:

Follow Dr. Mercola on Twitter Follow Dr. Mercola on Facebook

Aspirin has developed a reputation in conventional medical circles for being a useful approach for lowering the risk of heart disease -- just take one a day to prevent heart attack or stroke.

Although, let's not forget that aspirin is in fact a drug.

Once you understand natural medical principles it is easy to see that any drug is not the solution for a chronic degenerative disease. Although it may seem to provide some initial benefit, the long-term overall view is rarely appreciated, as it nearly invariably shows a combination of side effects that far outweighs any benefit.

The case of Vioxx is quite clear. Tens of thousands of people around the world paid the price with their lives for choosing some temporary pain relief in exchange for a fatal heart attack.

In the case of aspirin, if you read the studies by British and American researchers, you will see that taking aspirin can cause much more harm than good.

The chance of developing ulcers is just one potential side effect. Others include:

* Increasing your risk of pancreatic cancer
* Damaging your kidneys
* Gastric bleeding

The best alternatives to aspirin? Simple lifestyle changes such as taking fish oil and exercising can have a tremendously positive effect on your cardiovascular system.

If you are at a very high risk of heart attack for one reason or another, or you simply know you won't be changing your lifestyle for the better, it may also be in your best interest to try CardioEssentials, a truly revolutionary powerful enzyme called nattokinase, before aspirin.

Nattokinase is a fibrinolytic (breaks up fibrin, which is found in clots) enzyme made from fermented soybeans. It is comparable to aspirin in its beneficial effects on your blood, but without any side effects.

Using nattokinase in combination with appropriate lifestyle and dietary modifications can provide excellent protection from heart attacks and many other forms of heart disease.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/01/07/the-mythical-benefit-of-aspirin-leads-to-ulcers.aspx

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 11:56 AM
No, it doesn't. It's low dose, slow release. It cuts your risk of stroke by 2/3.

I know what the allopathic medico's say about. I still think it's unecessary though.

Brock
07-07-2011, 11:56 AM
It's interesting to me the studies you choose to believe vs. the ones you choose not to believe.

Brock
07-07-2011, 11:57 AM
I know what the allopathic medico's say about. I still think it's unecessary though.

Thanks for your opinion, Dr.

vailpass
07-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Tinfoil has no part in the equation, i was asking if you took aspirin as directed by your cardiologist?

No offense but no amount of random 6 year old internet articles are going to sway me from my doctor's advice. Don't bother posting them on my account.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 11:59 AM
Bad for your liver also.

Don't I know having been a nearly daily aspirin taker. By mid-thirties my liver was damaged and unhealthy and that's one of the things I repaired naturally with a doctor and mega vitamin therapy.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 12:01 PM
No offense but no amount of random 6 year old internet articles are going to sway me from my doctor's advice. Don't bother posting them on my account.

Well, I don't use random internet articles. I knew this stuff many years before the internet. Allopathic medicine is known for having it's own risks, often worse and not so infrequent. Thankfully this is starting to change. Those Wellness Clinics you see usually combine a naturopath, a chiropractic internist and a medical doctor for an integrated approach. That's what makes up Mercola's clinic. Afterall, big pharma provides lots of funds to medical schools.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 12:02 PM
Don't I know having been a nearly daily aspirin taker. By mid-thirties my liver was damaged and unhealthy and that's one of the things I repaired naturally with a doctor and mega vitamin therapy.

It's nice to know that by following cheap, natural alternatives we can be healthy but most will still choose to pay thousands of dollars per year for a maintenance dose after not listening to the causes from those who have been there.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 12:05 PM
Thanks for your opinion, Dr.

You're welcome dupe.

Pants
07-07-2011, 12:07 PM
Well, I don't use random internet articles. I knew this stuff many years before the internet. Allopathic medicine is known for having it's own risks, often worse and not so infrequent. Thankfully this is starting to change. Those Wellness Clinics you see usually combine a naturopath, a chiropractic internist and a medical doctor for an integrated approach. That's what makes up Mercola's clinic. Afterall, big pharma provides lots of funds to medical schools.

You damaged your liver because you were taking 81mg of ASA a day? I'm sorry to hear that, you're an exception to the rule. Why were you taking it daily in your 30's, though? Pain management? Because 81mg isn't designed to manage pain, it just thins your blood a little.

vailpass
07-07-2011, 12:10 PM
Maybe just hold a crystal over the sick part and channel some good chakra?

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 12:12 PM
Maybe just hold a crystal over the sick part and channel some good chakra?

Yes because this is what God gave us, right? Jesus told us to submit to Sorcery.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 12:24 PM
Maybe just hold a crystal over the sick part and channel some good chakra?

Hey, if it's true 70% of illnesses are psychosomatic it might work! :thumb:

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 12:33 PM
You damaged your liver because you were taking 81mg of ASA a day? I'm sorry to hear that, you're an exception to the rule. Why were you taking it daily in your 30's, though? Pain management? Because 81mg isn't designed to manage pain, it just thins your blood a little.

I really never read how many mgs it was. I do know I went through a large bottle a month.

Yes, it was for pain management due to persistent and regular headaches or migraines that began at age 15 and just got worse. Surprisingly they disappeared during pregnancy. Once I had a migraine for a month and could still feel pain through something like Excedrin for migraines.

Since the ones on my monthly cycle never went away, after trying various natural approaches some of which helped others not at all, I figured the rest were hormonal. No doctor ever told me that though but I think it makes perfect sense since they disappeared during pregnancy but came back again after.

All doctors could ever ask me, even after a cat scan followed by telling me there's nothing wrong with me, was: "What is bothering you?" I said nothing. They tend to do this to women....it's a common complaint if your read women's health articles. Yet, they would commit me to outpatients for dehydration from severe vomiting and dry retching when I had migraines that wouldn't let up for several days.

It was a roomate of mine who was a nurse who told me I was damaging my health from taking too much aspirin. That's when I went to doctors....got the cat scan etc. Only they prescribed stuff so strong I couldn't operate or drive. So that was not a solution.

Brock
07-07-2011, 12:37 PM
Yes because this is what God gave us, right? Jesus told us to submit to Sorcery.

Are you a Christian Scientist?

Brock
07-07-2011, 12:37 PM
You're welcome dupe.

No problem, liar.

Pants
07-07-2011, 12:40 PM
I really never read how many mgs it was. I do know I went through a large bottle a month.

Yes, it was for pain management due to persistent and regular headaches or migraines that began at age 15 and just got worse. Surprisingly they disappeared during pregnancy. Once I had a migraine for a month and could still feel pain through something like Excedrin for migraines.

Since the ones on my monthly cycle never went away, after trying various natural approaches some of which helped others not at all, I figured the rest were hormonal. No doctor ever told me that though but I think it makes perfect sense since they disappeared during pregnancy but came back again after.

All doctors could ever ask me, even after a cat scan followed by telling me there's nothing wrong with me, was: "What is bothering you?" I said nothing. They tend to do this to women....it's a common complaint if your read women's health articles. Yet, they would commit me to outpatients for dehydration from severe vomiting and dry retching when I had migraines that wouldn't let up for several days.

It was a roomate of mine who was a nurse who told me I was damaging my health from taking too much aspirin. That's when I went to doctors....got the cat scan etc. Only they prescribed stuff so strong I couldn't operate or drive. So that was not a solution.

Did they ever try Topamax? Those can help prevent migraines and unexplainable woman headaches. And yeah, I assume you were eating a bunch of ASA 325mg a day, which is not good and totally different from what was brought up in the thread.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 12:41 PM
No problem, liar.

Well, you got back what you put out with your own snide remark. You can do it but I can't?
And you called me a hypocrite once? :hmmm: LMAO

Brock
07-07-2011, 12:46 PM
Well, you got back what you put out with your own snide remark. You can do it but I can't?
And you called me a hypocrite once? :hmmm: LMAO

If you're content with being a liar, I'm content with calling you one. Not really an issue. :thumb:

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 12:46 PM
Did they ever try Topamax? Those can help prevent migraines and unexplainable woman headaches. And yeah, I assume you were eating a bunch of ASA 325mg a day, which is not good and totally different from what was brought up in the thread.

It's not "totally" different. It wasn't a bunch daily. It was usually just two when I needed some which was nearly daily by a certain point in time. But more at other times if it lasted long. Once I started looking into causes, which btw took a naturally inclined internal medicine doctor I was told that aspirin in general, was not good for the body and harms the liver. Sure, some once in awhile won't do much damage. But not all doctors think it's the best for prevention either. I still take some but try not to. I don't even use a bottle a year anymore.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 12:47 PM
If you're content with being a liar, I'm content with calling you one. Not really an issue. :thumb:

What did I lie about? How would you know anyway?

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 12:53 PM
The point is a person should not get to the point of having to take an aspirin a day to prevent heart attacks and strokes. Our point is the medical profession does not treat causes but treats symptoms and many of their treatments have side effects. If you've come to the point of being high risk, then that's what you have left true. But it really isn't necessary otherwise.

Brock
07-07-2011, 12:54 PM
What did I lie about? How would you know anyway?

When you said I was a dupe. I am not a dupe. This can be proven to be false. Ergo, you lied when you said that.

Brock
07-07-2011, 12:55 PM
The point is a person should not get to the point of having to take an aspirin a day to prevent heart attacks and strokes. Our point is the medical profession does not treat causes but treats symptoms and many of their treatments have side effects. If you've come to the point of being high risk, then that's what you have left true. But it really isn't necessary otherwise.

In other words, don't age to the point that your blood vessels weaken. Brilliant.

Pants
07-07-2011, 01:16 PM
In other words, don't age to the point that your blood vessels weaken. Brilliant.

Back in the stone age, people ate berries and meat and didn't need no meds!

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 01:17 PM
In other words, don't age to the point that your blood vessels weaken. Brilliant.

Believe it or not, there's other things that can help that. Hey, it's your choice. I have found though with just routine check-ups including physicals that doctors more than ever are pushing more drugs. Cripes, what are you 80? I know 90 years olds on nothing!

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 01:18 PM
When you said I was a dupe. I am not a dupe. This can be proven to be false. Ergo, you lied when you said that.

For THAT! Well that's an opinion. Therefore it can't be proven true or false. So THERE! :harumph:

Detoxing
07-07-2011, 01:19 PM
I think I wanna go to school to be a pharmacist.

Selling drugs for "the Man"? Fuck yeah, I'll always have a job!

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 01:20 PM
I think I wanna go to school to be a pharmacist.

Selling drugs for "the Man"? **** yeah, I'll always have a job!

Will you be changing your screen name to "Toxing" or "Toxic" then? o:-)

Radar Chief
07-07-2011, 01:22 PM
Back in the stone age, people ate berries and meat and didn't need no meds!

With an average life span of 26 years. Yea no medicine.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 01:22 PM
Back in the stone age, people ate berries and meat and didn't need no meds!

Ya some lived in excess of 900 years, they clearly needed doctors and big pharma!

Brock
07-07-2011, 01:23 PM
Ya some lived in excess of 900 years, they clearly needed doctors and big pharma!

LMAO

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 01:25 PM
With an average life span of 26 years. Yea no medicine.

Who here said no medicine? No one.

Medicine has a place as does natural medicine and approaches. Let's not strawman the issue.

The thing that improved health the most has been cleanliness, refrigeration for food, division of labor, more knowledge of the human body including how nutrition impacts it etc etc.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 01:27 PM
Who here said no medicine? No one.

Medicine has a place as does natural medicine and approaches. Let's not strawman the issue.

The thing that improved health the most has been cleanliness, refrigeration for food, division of labor, more knowledge of the human body including how nutrition impacts it etc etc.

You forgot the FDA, they have extended life at least 50 years per person.

Pants
07-07-2011, 01:27 PM
Ya some lived in excess of 900 years, they clearly needed doctors and big pharma!

Not sure if serious....

Pants
07-07-2011, 01:28 PM
Who here said no medicine? No one.

Medicine has a place as does natural medicine and approaches. Let's not strawman the issue.

The thing that improved health the most has been cleanliness, refrigeration for food, division of labor, more knowledge of the human body including how nutrition impacts it etc etc.

Yeap. It wasn't the anti-biotics, it was knowing how to eat right!

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 01:30 PM
Yeap. It wasn't the anti-biotics, it was knowing how to eat right!

It's just amazing we made it past the Molecular level, Darwin made it all possible.

BucEyedPea
07-07-2011, 01:45 PM
Yeap. It wasn't the anti-biotics, it was knowing how to eat right!

Yeah, because we were discussing anti-biotics which natural folks are not totally against. We are only against them being overused. You know how that turned out right? Eventually the medical profession caught on too. They lag behind the natural folks at times when eventually they do embrace some things.

In the meantime, Dr. Semmelweis claimed that doctors not washing their hands is what was causing women to die with child-bed fever. He was vilified by the medical establishment and so women continued to die in child-birth for another hundred years while doctors continued to not wash their hands. I call this cultural lag but it also shows arrogance has afflicted the medical profession from time to time.

When diet is wrong, medicine is of no use.

"The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease."
Thomas A. Edison
US inventor (1847 - 1931)

Pants
07-07-2011, 01:46 PM
It's just amazing we made it past the Molecular level, Darwin made it all possible.

Describing a process = making it possible. Makes sense in KC's world.

Pants
07-07-2011, 01:48 PM
Yeah, because we were discussing anti-biotics which natural folks are not totally against. We are only against them being overused. You know how that turned out right? Eventually the medical profession caught on too. They lag behind the natural folks at times when eventually they do embrace some things.

In the meantime, Dr. Semmelweis claimed that doctors not washing their hands is what was causing women to die with child-bed fever. He was vilified by the medical establishment and so women continued to die in child-birth for another hundred years while doctors continued to not wash their hands. I call this cultural lag but it also shows arrogance has afflicted the medical profession from time to time.

When diet is wrong, medicine is of no use.
"The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease."Thomas A. Edison
US inventor (1847 - 1931)

All you had to do was list anti-biotics as one of the reasons why our life expectancy is so much higher now. And I hate the fact that they're overused just as much as you do, but that's besides the point.

KILLER_CLOWN
07-07-2011, 02:45 PM
Describing a process = making it possible. Makes sense in KC's world.

Yes i was serious. :spock: