PDA

View Full Version : Education Giant school cheating scandal in Atlanta


banyon
07-10-2011, 10:25 AM
Cheating scandal adds fuel to debate over high-stakes tests

By Jaime Sarrio

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Atlanta's school cheating scandal, one of the largest in U.S. history, has launched a national discussion about whether the increased use of high-stakes tests to rate educators will trigger similar episodes in the years ahead.

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/cheating-scandal-adds-fuel-1007784.html

Pressure to meet testing targets was a major reason cheating took place in 44 Atlanta schools involving 178 educators, according to a state investigation released last week. The revelations, called "deeply disturbing" by the Obama administration, have tarnished Atlanta's Cinderella story of school reform.

This comes as Georgia and states across the country are working on new strategies to retain, pay and promote teachers and principals based -- in large part -- on how much growth students show on standardized tests. Starting next year in 26 Georgia districts, student test data will count as 50 percent in pilot evaluations of teachers in core subjects such as math and science.

“I am convinced you’ll see more [cheating],” said DeKalb County teacher Laura Pittman, who added she was “sickened” by the scandal. “Anybody whose job is tied to performance, it is a setup.”

In Atlanta, teachers who confessed to cheating told investigators they felt inordinate pressure to meet targets set by the district and faced severe consequences such as a negative evaluation or termination if they didn’t. The behavior was reinforced by a district culture of fear and intimidation directed at whistle-blowers.

Targets were primarily based on the state’s annual Criterion-Referenced Competency Tests. Schoolwide bonuses up to $2,000 were given to employees at schools that met prescribed targets, and according to the state investigation, former APS Superintendent Beverly Hall also benefited financially from the bonus system.

Georgia, as one of several winners of the federal Race to the Top grant, pledged to change its teacher and principal evaluation system so performance is more heavily weighted on a student’s academic growth on tests. Evaluations will soon play a role in who gets certified to teach, who gets promoted and, eventually, who gets the biggest paycheck.

Race to the Top is one of the cornerstones of President Barack Obama’s education policy and has been a catalyst for reform across the nation. Central to the policy is the insistence on tying educator evaluations to student test scores to provide more substantial evidence of good teaching.

U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said the Atlanta situation was “deeply disturbing,” but he disagrees with people who say a greater emphasis on testing will cause more cheating. Students need to be evaluated, he said, and what leads to great test scores is great teaching.

“Lots of places are seeing tremendous reform, are moving forward, doing great and doing it the right way,” he told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “The saddest thing here is the Atlanta public schools were making real progress. And now that’s buried in this story.”

Person or policy?

In 2002, the federal No Child Left Behind Act increased the importance of testing by requiring schools and districts to meet annual performance goals. The goals increase every year and are based largely on how many students pass annual standardized tests, which in Georgia includes the CRCT. Schools and districts that fail to meet annual goals after several years face stiff sanctions such as school takeover, even as the expectations get higher.

The latest accountability push focuses on teachers and educators and the belief that they should be graded -- and rewarded -- on how much students are learning, not just how many pass a test. States who choose to participate in the Race to the Top are leading that change and now debating how best to measure student growth over time.

Sandi Jacobs, vice president for the National Council on Teacher Quality, a group that supports tying test scores to evaluations, said there is reason to worry about an increase in cheating, especially if teachers don't understand the new system.

“I am sure people cheat for worse reasons than fear, but the fear is real,” she said. “Teachers are nervous and worried and they think jobs are at stake, and until they can develop confidence that it is a fair system, they are going to stay worried.”

In Atlanta, local targets went beyond the goals set under No Child Left Behind. Investigators said "targets were implemented in such a way that teachers and administrators believed they had to choose between cheating to meet targets or failing to meet targets and losing their jobs.”

The scheme to boost test scores appeared to stretch across every level of the district and went on for as long as a decade. Hall’s attorney has said she did not know of any widespread cheating, and that there was no direct evidence to show she knew widespread cheating had occurred.

But Atlanta isn’t the only district where cheating is suspected. Reports from Florida, Baltimore, Los Angeles and Washington suggest cheating by educators is on the rise or getting more attention. Some point to the approaching No Child Left Behind deadline, which mandates 100 percent of students reach “proficient” levels by 2014 as a possible cause.

Walt Haney, a testing expert and a professor of education at Boston College, said cheating is becoming more prevalent as the testing stakes get higher. What do the cases have in common? An unrealistic emphasis on test scores without attention to other evidence of school quality, he said.

“It’s this idiotic pressure on schools and teachers regarding test results that I think is corrupting not just the test results, but education,” Haney said.

But the question for many is whether a policy can trigger educators to cheat, or whether the lapse in ethics rests solely on the individual.

Serene Varghese, who taught in Atlanta Public Schools from 2005 to 2010, said at Garden Hills Elementary School there wasn’t a culture of retaliation and retribution. But even still, she felt the pressure to hit performance goals because she didn’t want to let down her colleagues or principal.

Varghese said she and the other teachers always wondered how other high-poverty schools would hit the marks that Garden Hills missed.

“There is no excuse for any professional to cheat on any sort of test," she said, "but that's easy to say because I am not at risk of losing my mortgage or not being able to feed my kids because I don’t have a job.”

A 2003 study of Chicago Public Schools, at that time led by Duncan, showed when financial incentives for teachers rose, so did manipulation. But a 2010 study conducted by the National Center on Performance Incentives at Vanderbilt University found no evidence participants were more likely to cheat than nonparticipants, even with a $15,000 bonus at stake.

Matthew G. Springer, who oversaw the Vanderbilt study, said policies don't force educators to cheat. But he says the Atlanta case highlights the need for monitoring, especially as testing takes on a bigger role. The national lesson here, he said, is that as educators' evaluations get more sophisticated, so too must monitoring and training of how the system works.

"It needs to be clear to educators that the state is going to look for cheating," he said.

A better system

A consensus has emerged on a few critical areas: Educators should be measured by how much their students grow academically from year to year, and not by proficiency -- the percentage of students that pass the test any given year. And test scores shouldn’t be the only factor in the evaluation process.

Georgia’s new system under Race to the Top will measure teachers on that so-called “value-added” growth model, and it will also use some other measurements -- classroom observations, student feedback -- though to a lesser degree.

State officials feel they are headed in the right direction. Funding is earmarked in the grant for erasure analysis, to audit other data such as attendance rates and for on-site schools visits, state Department of Education spokesman Jon Rogers said. And the state’s aggressive response to suspected cheating shows officials take the validity of test scores seriously, he added.

Marlyn Tillman, a Snellville resident and education advocate whose son graduated last year from Brookwood High School, said she thinks the Atlanta scandal is proof that tests should be used as diagnostic tools and not to add pressure to educators.

“I think what the APS scandal shows is that teachers, administrators and school personnel are people, too," she said, "and people will do what they need to do to survive.”

Staff writer Nancy Badertscher contributed to this article.

U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan this week answered AJC reporter Nancy Badertscher's questions on the Atlanta cheating scandal.

Q: What do you say to people who say the Atlanta scandal is evidence that as greater emphasis is put on tests there will be more educators who are driven to cheat?

A: I don’t agree with that. That does a grave disservice to the overwhelming majority of teachers and principals who are doing amazing work every day, often in very challenging circumstances. They act like people are going to cheat just to get ahead. The absolute tremendous majority of educators would never cheat for any reason and are working hard every single day to help students be successful. That’s why they came into the profession. You don’t want to overtest or place too much emphasis on it, but to just say more people are going to cheat -- I’ve got a lot confidence, a lot more faith in America’s educators than that.

Q: So you think the pressure and the emphasis is about appropriate?

A: I don’t know the local context there, so I don’t know whether it was appropriate or not. Students should be evaluated each year. We need to know what they’re learning, what they’re not. Ultimately, what leads to great results, whether its test scores or graduation rates, is great teaching, great education, engaged lessons. And test scores take care of themselves. If you are just focusing on the test scores and just teaching to the test, that doesn’t work for kids.

Q: Are there lessons to be learned from this for this district, others around the state and country?

A: Absolutely. Huge lessons. Again, whether you are in education or you are a journalist, a doctor, a lawyer or police officer, nothing is more important than integrity. Ultimately, we’re trying to teach children life lessons, and a lot of these children got robbed -- something got taken from them, something got stolen from them. And that is just absolutely unacceptable. What are the lessons? Integrity matters, honesty matters. Doing the right things for children is a very simple test. You’ve got to look in the mirror every single day and say are you doing the right thing for children? If the answer is yes, you should feel really good about it. If the answer is no, it’s got to change.

Q: As you talk to others educators, are there safeguards?

A: There are clear, not expensive security measures that you take to make sure things have integrity. Look at our guidance. Should Atlanta do those things? They should have done them yesterday. And they should do them today. It’s pretty easy. The technical fix is easy. With a new leadership team, it’s a tough time, but from a tough time Atlanta Public Schools can rise again. You learn these lessons, you put in place the discipline. And the biggest thing: Atlanta Public Schools has to regain the public’s trust, and that’s going to take time. But all you have is honor and integrity, and you’ve got to get back to that.

Q: You were pretty supportive of [Beverly Hall]. Had you ever envisioned the magnitude?

A: What stunned me most was the magnitude. This is a cultural problem. If it was in two schools, that’s one thing. But 80 percent of schools. I’ve never seen anything like this in life, and hopefully there will never be another one like this again. Hopefully, this is as bad as it will ever be. And hopefully, Atlanta and the rest of the country will learn from this.

Q: Have you weighed in?

A: The technical fix is very simple, and they need to put that in place. The job for a new superintendent coming in after a crisis is to rebuild public confidence with absolute integrity, transparency. That’s what the district needs. The most immediate thing is to get the help for the children who may have been denied. We’ll do whatever we can to be helpful and to make the new team successful. I met with the governor and mayor a couple of weeks ago. Children of Atlanta deserve better than what they’ve had, and I want to make sure they get that.

Q: We know the public faith in public schools is shaky already. What does this do?

A: This is a blow of course. But from a very tough situation you can grow, you can rebuild again.


http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/cheating-scandal-adds-fuel-1007784.html

Jaric
07-10-2011, 10:27 AM
I don't know how, but I'm certain Kotter was involved.

:eek:

go bowe
07-10-2011, 10:40 AM
I don't know how, but I'm certain Kotter was involved.

:eek:

HA!!!!! don't make me spit my coffee again, buster...

go bowe
07-10-2011, 10:43 AM
i heard about this a day or two ago...

it was inevitable and probably is far more widespread than even this article demonstates...

no child left behind was a failure that created huge incentives to cheat...

banyon
07-10-2011, 10:48 AM
i heard about this a day or two ago...

it was inevitable and probably is far more widespread than even this article demonstates...

no child left behind was a failure that created huge incentives to cheat...

I guess I wonder if this will have any lasting impact on the emphasis on standardized testing to the exclusion of everything else.

go bowe
07-10-2011, 10:58 AM
I guess I wonder if this will have any lasting impact on the emphasis on standardized testing to the exclusion of everything else.

good gawd, i hope so...

i've known lots of people that tested really well, but were lost in the real world...

Bewbies
07-10-2011, 11:33 AM
This is huge down here. It sounds like there's going to be quite a few people headed to prison over this....

If you want to read a ton of reports on this here you go, this is vol. 1 of 3.

http://www.ajc.com/news/volume-1-of-special-1000798.html

The Mad Crapper
07-10-2011, 11:35 AM
It's all Bush's fault. LMAO

Standardized tests are raythitht. LMAO

And on and on it goes from the moonbats.

Bewbies
07-10-2011, 11:37 AM
It's a sad day when people blame Bush for educators choosing to cheat rather than improve how/what they teach.

It could never be the teachers fault! It could never be the administrators of the school districts fault!

The Mad Crapper
07-10-2011, 11:40 AM
It's a sad day when people blame Bush for educators choosing to cheat rather than improve how/what they teach.

It could never be the teachers fault! It could never be the administrators of the school districts fault!

Don't you know that "certain people" are never accountable for their behavior? It's in the moonbat playbook, right on page 1.

bevischief
07-10-2011, 11:51 AM
Another reason to get rid of the Department of Education.

HonestChieffan
07-10-2011, 11:55 AM
It's a sad day when people blame Bush for educators choosing to cheat rather than improve how/what they teach.

It could never be the teachers fault! It could never be the administrators of the school districts fault!

This could be fixed if they only had more funding.

banyon
07-10-2011, 12:00 PM
It's all Bush's fault. LMAO

Standardized tests are raythitht. LMAO

And on and on it goes from the moonbats.

Yeah, moonbats, blame Bush.

That's somewhere in this thread, somehow...

Same 10 one liners, YAWN. :rolleyes:

go bowe
07-10-2011, 12:01 PM
It's a sad day when people blame Bush for educators choosing to cheat rather than improve how/what they teach.

It could never be the teachers fault! It could never be the administrators of the school districts fault!

it could never be poverty, gang violence and criminal activity in the inner cities that causes most of those schools to be substandard...

go bowe
07-10-2011, 12:05 PM
Another reason to get rid of the Department of Education.

i see that a lot...

what does it mean?

get rid of the administrative structure called the dept of ed?

or get rid of programs like head start, school lunch programs and direct funding for schools?

how about student loan program, should we get rid of it too?

what does get rid of the dept of educ mean?

BucEyedPea
07-10-2011, 12:07 PM
More good examples of the wonders of govt workers ( includes overeager prosecutors )

banyon
07-10-2011, 12:08 PM
More good examples of the wonders of govt workers ( includes overeager prosecutors )

How about teachers relying on student loans?

go bowe
07-10-2011, 12:19 PM
How about teachers relying on student loans?
teachers?

statist mercantilists, all of 'em...

The Mad Crapper
07-10-2011, 01:31 PM
it could never be poverty, gang violence and criminal activity in the inner cities that causes most of those schools to be substandard...

I like the way you blew right past 80% out of wedlock birth rate.

LMAO

go bowe
07-10-2011, 02:56 PM
This could be fixed if they only had more funding.

i don't think any amount of money will "fix" the problems of education in inner city schools...

radical new ideas are needed to fix those problems, the old way of throwing money at it doesn't work in those cases, i agree wholeheartedly...

does anybody have any good ideas?

go bowe
07-10-2011, 02:58 PM
I like the way you blew right past 80% out of wedlock birth rate.

LMAO

ok, include the out of lock wedlock rate, whatever it may be, in that short summary of problems...

but i would contend that the illegitimacy rate is a product of the environment, as well as a partial cause...

HonestChieffan
07-10-2011, 03:02 PM
i don't think any amount of money will "fix" the problems of education in inner city schools...

radical new ideas are needed to fix those problems, the old way of throwing money at it doesn't work in those cases, i agree wholeheartedly...

does anybody have any good ideas?

Start with returning education to local districts and get the federal BS off their back so they can focus on education not social engineering.

go bowe
07-10-2011, 03:10 PM
Start with returning education to local districts and get the federal BS off their back so they can focus on education not social engineering.

sounds like a good start to me...

as long as somebody funds programs like head start and student loans and the like, i don't care if it's the states of the feds, as long as those kinds of programs are continued if not increased substantially...

ClevelandBronco
07-10-2011, 03:19 PM
sounds like a good start to me...

as long as somebody funds programs like head start and student loans and the like, i don't care if it's the states of the feds, as long as those kinds of programs are continued if not increased substantially...

I'd like to see government-backed student loans disappear. There would be some short-term pain as university staff would be out of work due to a smaller student population, but one long-term effect would be that college would have to cost an amount of money that a sizable number of people can afford without subsidized and guaranteed loans.

The federal government is helping to cause higher education costs to increase at an unhealthy rate, IMO.

HonestChieffan
07-10-2011, 03:21 PM
sounds like a good start to me...

as long as somebody funds programs like head start and student loans and the like, i don't care if it's the states of the feds, as long as those kinds of programs are continued if not increased substantially...

Local districts will fund what is needed in those districts

go bowe
07-10-2011, 03:29 PM
Local districts will fund what is needed in those districts

again, that has a lot of merit, but what about poor school districts that can't fund them even though they may need them very badly?

educating our children is one of the most important things we can do to assure a future in an ever-developing and competitive world...

and supporting education, not just public education, should mean funding it at equal levels for all children...

HonestChieffan
07-10-2011, 03:35 PM
again, that has a lot of merit, but what about poor school districts that can't fund them even though they may need them very badly?

educating our children is one of the most important things we can do to assure a future in an ever-developing and competitive world...

and supporting education, not just public education, should mean funding it at equal levels for all children...

They can afford more than we think once we remove the high cost requirements from Washington.

People are amazing really, we actually do the right thing in most cases. Thus once they get focussed on the real needs of the district and get the costs of operation in line, if and when they have a clear money need, the state and the local taxing body will manage it very well.

They did for many years and can do so again.


We do it on our volunteer fire departments, our county governments, our small towns and cities, our library boards and hospitals just as we did our schools before Washington decided we were to ignorant and needed oversight.

The Mad Crapper
07-10-2011, 04:22 PM
i don't think any amount of money will "fix" the problems of education in inner city schools...

radical new ideas are needed to fix those problems

Being a father is a radical idea?

BucEyedPea
07-10-2011, 05:16 PM
Being a father is a radical idea?

To a lefty it is.

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 12:40 AM
it could never be poverty, gang violence and criminal activity in the inner cities that causes most of those schools to be substandard...

This isn't a poverty scandal, its teachers holding cheating parties, changing kids answers on tests, lying about that, and bragging to the world about how effective their reforms are. Pushing blame elsewhere is wrong.

Garcia Bronco
07-11-2011, 09:34 AM
LOL@ "Chocolate City"

vailpass
07-11-2011, 10:55 AM
Considering the average public school student in Atlanta is as dumb as a post a cheating scandal was inevitable if the teachers wanted to keep their jobs.

Bob Dole
07-11-2011, 11:08 AM
When are we going to just accept the fact that we've got a country full of half-wits and lazy people who have been allowed to breed uncontrollably and make a way of life out of being handed everything for free?

I don't give a shit how dedicated and capable an educator is...if you hand them a classroom full of 3rd generation welfare recipients, there isn't a goddamned tool/method/magic bullet in the universe that will turn even 10% of them in to Rhodes Scholars.

NewChief
07-11-2011, 11:09 AM
“There is no excuse for any professional to cheat on any sort of test," she said, "but that's easy to say because I am not at risk of losing my mortgage or not being able to feed my kids because I don’t have a job.”


This.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 11:09 AM
When are we going to just accept the fact that we've got a country full of half-wits and lazy people who have been allowed to breed uncontrollably and make a way of life out of being handed everything for free?

I don't give a shit how dedicated and capable an educator is...if you hand them a classroom full of 3rd generation welfare recipients, there isn't a goddamned tool/method/magic bullet in the universe that will turn even 10% of them in to Rhodes Scholars.

And there it is. Absolutely true.

Bob Dole
07-11-2011, 11:12 AM
The federal government is helping to cause higher education costs to increase at an unhealthy rate, IMO.

When you have some spare blood pressure and time to waste, check out the Dept. of Ed onerous bullshit that's been going on.

http://www.educause.edu/blog/SLWorona/TwonewStateAuthorizationresour/226200

Donger
07-11-2011, 11:17 AM
This.

No one was forced to become a teacher.

NewChief
07-11-2011, 11:25 AM
No one was forced to become a teacher.

When many of these people became teachers, there was no high-stakes standardized testing movement. This is a development of the last 12 years. I refuse to wade much further into this, because discussing education on this board just ends up depressing me. I'll just end up sounding like a broken record.

Brock
07-11-2011, 11:27 AM
When are we going to just accept the fact that we've got a country full of half-wits and lazy people who have been allowed to breed uncontrollably and make a way of life out of being handed everything for free?

I don't give a shit how dedicated and capable an educator is...if you hand them a classroom full of 3rd generation welfare recipients, there isn't a goddamned tool/method/magic bullet in the universe that will turn even 10% of them in to Rhodes Scholars.

:clap:

Donger
07-11-2011, 11:31 AM
When many of these people became teachers, there was no high-stakes standardized testing movement. This is a development of the last 12 years. I refuse to wade much further into this, because discussing education on this board just ends up depressing me. I'll just end up sounding like a broken record.

So they now actually have to comply with some quantifiable result and don't like it?

NewChief
07-11-2011, 11:36 AM
So they now actually have to comply with some quantifiable result and don't like it?

Yes. That's exactly it, Donger.

Donger
07-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Yes. That's exactly it, Donger.

Okay.

Saul Good
07-11-2011, 11:53 AM
When many of these people became teachers, there was no high-stakes standardized testing movement. This is a development of the last 12 years. I refuse to wade much further into this, because discussing education on this board just ends up depressing me. I'll just end up sounding like a broken record.

So did you sign a 30 year teaching contract before NCLB, or have you re-upped your contract each year for the past 11 years with the full understanding of what you were agreeing to do?

Bob Dole
07-11-2011, 11:58 AM
So did you sign a 30 year teaching contract before NCLB, or have you re-upped your contract each year for the past 11 years with the full understanding of what you were agreeing to do?

So how do you react when your new contract last year demanded that you turn water into wine, and the one this year demanded that you feed 2000 people for a nickel?

Bob Dole doesn't have an issue with having quantitative goals, but they need to be realistic.

Now get to work on that $2000 Bachelor's degree initiative!

Saul Good
07-11-2011, 12:01 PM
So how do you react when your new contract last year demanded that you turn water into wine, and the one this year demanded that you feed 2000 people for a nickel?

Bob Dole doesn't have an issue with having quantitative goals, but they need to be realistic.

Now get to work on that $2000 Bachelor's degree initiative!

How do I react? If I can't turn water into wine nor feed thousands for a nickel, I don't sign the contract. That is how I react.

Of course, nobody really gives a shit about how I would react because I am not in a union with hundreds of thousands of people donating to the Democrats in return for their protection. If I get fucked over, I walk out the door and find a new job.

Bob Dole
07-11-2011, 12:03 PM
How do I react? If I can't turn water into wine noe feed thousands fir a nickel, I don't sign the contract. That is how I react.

LOL

VAChief
07-11-2011, 12:39 PM
How do I react? If I can't turn water into wine nor feed thousands for a nickel, I don't sign the contract. That is how I react.

Of course, nobody really gives a shit about how I would react because I am not in a union with hundreds of thousands of people donating to the Democrats in return for their protection. If I get ****ed over, I walk out the door and find a new job.

Yep, the standard unions are the problem. They certainly have their issues, but are also a convenient scapegoat.

http://www.businessinsider.com/states-where-teachers-unions-are-illegal-2011-2

vailpass
07-11-2011, 12:52 PM
NCLB assumes that one size fits all when nothing could be farther from the truth. I am as staunch an education supporter as they come. Public schools have to be dealt with at the local level. The student base in Atlanta, GA is nothing like the student base in Scottsdale, AZ or Billings, MT.

I have no idea what the solution is for inner city kids who came from dumb and will live their lives dumb but to handcuff the people willing to try to teach them something is beyond insanity. They are lucky there is anyone willing to try and teach to these lowest-level "students" who don't want to be there anyway.

Bump
07-11-2011, 12:56 PM
US has the worst education in the free world. Who cares.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 12:57 PM
US has the worst education in the free world. Who cares.

Your mom cared when I bent her over and made her clean her own blackboards, if you know what I mean.

BucEyedPea
07-11-2011, 01:04 PM
US has the worst education in the free world. Who cares.

Actually, even Europe's has issues.

BucEyedPea
07-11-2011, 01:10 PM
When many of these people became teachers, there was no high-stakes standardized testing movement. This is a development of the last 12 years. I refuse to wade much further into this, because discussing education on this board just ends up depressing me. I'll just end up sounding like a broken record.

Same is true for being accepted into colleges and universities. There were no SATs or ACTs at one point by universities and colleges. It was around 1945/48 the SAT began to be used widely by colleges. SAT is a ticket for America's ruling class. It's first use was by the military. Today, it's a way to deal with the varying quality of different schools around the country. There's too many As being given out by teachers. University professors know that is equivalent to a B in college due to grade inflation.

PBS: History of SAT

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/where/history.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/where/

Garcia Bronco
07-11-2011, 01:11 PM
US has the worst education in the free world. Who cares.

No we don't. That's fucking stupid

vailpass
07-11-2011, 01:15 PM
Same is true for being accepted into colleges and universities. There were no SATs or ACTs at one point by universities and colleges. It was around 1945/48 the SAT began to be used widely by colleges. SAT is a ticket for America's ruling class. It's first use was by the military. Today, it's a way to deal with the varying quality of different schools around the country. There's too many As being given out by teachers. University professors know that is equivalent to a B in college due to grade inflation.

PBS: History of SAT

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/where/history.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/where/

If not ACT/SAT, what method would you suggest university admissions use to select students?

Stinger
07-11-2011, 01:16 PM
US has the worst education in the free world. Who cares.

.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/stinger871/Chief%20Planet/notsureifserious.jpg

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 01:16 PM
You know, if you are in the military, and you can't pass a simple phsyical ie xpush up x sit ups and run 2 to 3 miles in x amount of minutes---

THEY THROW YOUR ASS OUT.

But let teachers from 1st through 12th grade graduate a person who is a functional illiterate keep their jobs and that ok.

BULLSHIT.

Annie Sullivan took a wild, deaf and blind child and in the space of LESS THAN 12 YEARS tought that child how to read and write.

You fucking bastards, man. YOU FUCKING UNION FUCKING BASTARDS.

Fuck all of you.

Bump
07-11-2011, 01:21 PM
No we don't. That's ****ing stupid

um, yes we do. By far.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 01:22 PM
Annie Sullivan had a pupil that wanted to learn. These inner city low-lifes don't want to be there, half of them have babies already, and they are just waiting to get on welfare or out on the streets.
No matter how good the teacher is, if the student is unwilling and unable they cannot be taught.
Pouring syrup on shit does not make it pancakes.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 01:24 PM
Annie Sullivan had a pupil that wanted to learn. These inner city low-lifes don't want to be there, half of them have babies already, and they are just waiting to get on welfare or out on the streets.
No matter how good the teacher is, if the student is unwilling and unable they cannot be taught.
Pouring syrup on shit does not make it pancakes.

You know vailpass, I want to agree with you but it's just not true.

These kids need fathers.

Believe me, if I didn't have a father to scare the living shit out of me when I got home, I would have been a monster at school, too.

Garcia Bronco
07-11-2011, 01:25 PM
Annie Sullivan had a pupil that wanted to learn. These inner city low-lifes don't want to be there, half of them have babies already, and they are just waiting to get on welfare or out on the streets.
No matter how good the teacher is, if the student is unwilling and unable they cannot be taught.
Pouring syrup on shit does not make it pancakes.

Then throw these kids out and put them in jail where they'll end up anyway...think of it as a head start program

vailpass
07-11-2011, 01:27 PM
You know vailpass, I want to agree with you but it's just not true.

These kids need fathers.

Believe me, if I didn't have a father to scare the living shit out of me when I got home, I would have been a monster at school, too.

Yes, they definetely need fathers. A HUGE part of the problem in the black community is the abandonment of the children by the father.
The sad fact is that as it stands today the majority do not have that solid father figure. So they are what they are.
I'm not saying it couldn't change, I'm saying it needs to change.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 01:28 PM
Yes, they definetely need fathers. A HUGE part of the problem in the black community is the abandonment of the children by the father.
The sad fact is that as it stands today the majority do not have that solid father figure. So they are what they are.
I'm not saying it couldn't change, I'm saying it needs to change.

It's sickening.

How the fuck do you walk out on your own child? And then blame somebody else.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 01:29 PM
Then throw these kids out and put them in jail where they'll end up anyway...think of it as a head start program

I'd be in favor of some kind of public works program for kids who don't want to go to high school. Let them work on the roads, parks, government works for 4 years instead of sitting in a school room.
Teach them trades, basic reading and math, pay them minimum wage. In four years they come out with a marketable skill. And the schools are left for those who want to learn.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 01:30 PM
When are we going to just accept the fact that we've got a country full of half-wits and lazy people who have been allowed to breed uncontrollably and make a way of life out of being handed everything for free?

I don't give a shit how dedicated and capable an educator is...if you hand them a classroom full of 3rd generation welfare recipients, there isn't a goddamned tool/method/magic bullet in the universe that will turn even 10% of them in to Rhodes Scholars.

nailed it.

..only caveat I would add is it was by design under the canopy of political correctness.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 01:32 PM
It's sickening.

How the **** do you walk out on your own child? And then blame somebody else.

you shift the repsonsibility to planned parenthood.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 01:38 PM
you shift the repsonsibility to planned parenthood.

?

Dude----

How can any man knock up a woman and then walk out KNOWING that his woman and HIS CHILD will be condemned to public housing and the welfare system?

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 01:43 PM
When are we going to just accept the fact that we've got a country full of half-wits and lazy people who have been allowed to breed uncontrollably and make a way of life out of being handed everything for free?

I won't accept that. Never.

I don't give a shit how dedicated and capable an educator is...if you hand them a classroom full of 3rd generation welfare recipients, there isn't a goddamned tool/method/magic bullet in the universe that will turn even 10% of them in to Rhodes Scholars.

OK.

We know who the demons are.

Now how do we help their kids?

Let's become foster parents. Let's become big brothers. Let's at least TRY TO SAVE THESE KIDS.

Are you with me? Are you ready to sacrifice time?

As long as there is life there is hope.

Garcia Bronco
07-11-2011, 01:44 PM
I'd be in favor of some kind of public works program for kids who don't want to go to high school. Let them work on the roads, parks, government works for 4 years instead of sitting in a school room.
Teach them trades, basic reading and math, pay them minimum wage. In four years they come out with a marketable skill. And the schools are left for those who want to learn.

Vocational education. It's what Germany does. Welding...mechanics...plumbing. All are good careers.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 01:47 PM
Vocational education. It's what Germany does. Welding...mechanics...plumbing. All are good careers.

I was just gonna say the same thing, only I was gonna say "It's what England does".

But we're conservatives and libertarians, we don't believe in socialism. :)

It costs money, too. Of course, it would be cheaper than scamming these kids into community colleges.

Garcia Bronco
07-11-2011, 01:51 PM
I was just gonna say the same thing, only I was gonna say "It's what England does".

But we're conservatives and libertarians, we don't believe in socialism. :)

It costs money, too. Of course, it would be cheaper than scamming these kids into community colleges.

It's not really not a huge amount of money, but a change in organization at the local level.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 01:55 PM
?

Dude----

How can any man knock up a woman and then walk out KNOWING that his woman and HIS CHILD will be condemned to public housing and the welfare system?
you're talking about a current culture that doesn't hold women in a very high regard, other than sex objects. they have become secondary.

hence, my baby's momma.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 01:55 PM
It's not really not a huge amount of money, but a change in organization at the local level.

You know the teachers unions will deep six it.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 01:57 PM
you're talking about a current culture that doesn't hold women in a very high regard, other than sex objects. they have become secondary.

hence, my baby's momma.

Well damnit white men should change that. Right now.

Can we do it? You and me?

stevieray
07-11-2011, 01:59 PM
Well damnit white men should change that. Right now.

Can we do it? You and me?


...not white men...just men.

we concentrate too much on the the adjectives, instead of just being the noun.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:02 PM
...not white men...just men.

we concentrate too much on the the adjectives, instead of just being the noun.

Let's just do it then.

I'm not much of a leader, I'm a follower, tell me what to do?

I read Tony Dungy's book about being a leader. I like his ideas.

I just want to make a positive difference. I'm tired of just looking at the problem and being critical.

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 02:03 PM
I personally believe the welfare system is the root cause of all of this (not the cheating teachers, f them).

Gov't sought to replace dad, did, and now especially in the inner city society is all screwed up.

Make people work, make them be productive, and refuse to let them collect a check each month and do nothing. Even Obama knows this.

original quote by Obama at twitter town hall
"I think we should acknowledge that some welfare programs in the past were not well designed and in some cases did encourage dependency.… As somebody who worked in low-income neighborhoods, I’ve seen it where people weren’t encouraged to work, weren’t encouraged to upgrade their skills, were just getting a check, and over time their motivation started to diminish. And I think even if you’re progressive you’ve got to acknowledge that some of these things have not been well designed."

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:04 PM
Let's just do it then.

I'm not much of a leader, I'm a follower, tell me what to do?

I read Tony Dungy's book about being a leader. I like his ideas.

I just want to make a positive difference. I'm tired of just looking at the problem and being critical.

ROFL no you don't.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:05 PM
Let's just do it then.

I'm not much of a leader, I'm a follower, tell me what to do?

I read Tony Dungy's book about being a leader. I like his ideas.

I just want to make a positive difference. I'm tired of just looking at the problem and being critical.

volunteer.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:06 PM
I personally believe the welfare system is the root cause of all of this (not the cheating teachers, f them).

Gov't sought to replace dad, did, and now especially in the inner city society is all screwed up.

Make people work, make them be productive, and refuse to let them collect a check each month and do nothing. Even Obama knows this.

Sure he does--- and he uses the dem playbook anyway. These bastards just want votes they really don't care what kind of destruction they leave in their wake.

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 02:06 PM
volunteer.

adopt a kid out of foster care, change your and his family tree.

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 02:06 PM
Sure he does--- and he uses the dem playbook anyway. These bastards just want votes they really don't care what kind of destruction they leave in their wake.

Yeah, that's what sick about it. Destroy others for your own power, SICK SICK SICK.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:07 PM
adopt a kid out of foster care, change your and his family tree.

I will.

God has been pushing me in that direction for quite some time now.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:13 PM
I will.

God has been pushing me in that direction for quite some time now.

Yea, um, hate filled pricks won't make it through the screening process (not that you would have actually done anything about it anyways).

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:14 PM
Yea, um, hate filled pricks won't make it through the screening process

Sounds like you gave it the ol' college try.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:15 PM
Sounds like you gave it the ol' college try.

lame post is lame. Oh, and I like how you left off the not that you would do anything about it anyways. More empty bullshit from you.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:17 PM
lame post is lame. Oh, and I like how you left off the not that you would do anything about it anyways. More empty bullshit from you.

What is your problem?

You run out of old ladies to fuck out of their pension you primerica piece of crap?

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:20 PM
What is your problem?

You run out of old ladies to fuck out of their pension you primerica piece of crap?

Deflect and run. Glad to see you're completely back to being your old self which you promised you wouldn't be for the 4th or 5th time. ROFL

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 02:22 PM
I will.

God has been pushing me in that direction for quite some time now.

Awesome! Our adoption is almost done, we're awaiting a referral any day now...

It's a hard process, but totally worth it. :clap:

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:23 PM
What is your problem?



Anger... it's why he's pissing on something positive.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:24 PM
Anger... it's why he's pissing on something positive.

No, it's called reality. shitty does nothing but bitch. He lacks conviction to do anything other than bitch about things on CP.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:24 PM
Deflect and run. Glad to see you're completely back to being your old self which you promised you wouldn't be for the 4th or 5th time. ROFL

So uh...

tell me, greaseball....

What are your thoughts on the Atlanta school system cheating scandal?

Oh, wait.

Never mind.

You have no thoughts. You just saw I posted in this thread and you're looking to stir up shit.

:loser:

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:27 PM
So uh...

tell me, greaseball....

What are your thoughts on the Atlanta school system cheating scandal?

Oh, wait.

Never mind.

You have no thoughts. You just saw I posted in this thread and you're looking to stir up shit.

:loser:

I might have replied if there were something to reply to other than "UNIONZ IZ DA deBBIl", "aBolizh da dePartMent of EdUcazion", and your fake concern for the lives of children in the inner city.

Standardized high stakes testing is a blight on education.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:28 PM
No, it's called reality.

no, it's called your reality.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:28 PM
Standardized high stakes testing is a blight on education.

Of course. How else could you have gotten a GED.

Hey listen, go put your pointy shoes on and kill the cockroaches in the corner, you.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:29 PM
no, it's called your reality.

ok dress up suzie. :rolleyes:

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Of course. How else could you have gotten a GED.

Hey listen, go put your pointy shoes on and kill the cockroaches in the corner, you.

Thanks for proving my point. That was faster than expected. You are a blight on this forum.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:30 PM
ok dress up suzie. :rolleyes:



...and this means what to you?

don't be a pussy.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Vocational education. It's what Germany does. Welding...mechanics...plumbing. All are good careers.

All damned good careers. And I can see clerical training involved as well. Give the kids a choice but they have to choose between the two.

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 02:31 PM
Thanks for proving my point. That was faster than expected. You are a blight on this forum.

Says the guy that makes the world go round. LMAO

vailpass
07-11-2011, 02:32 PM
Yea, um, hate filled pricks won't make it through the screening process (not that you would have actually done anything about it anyways).

Take your fat ass out of here frijole boy.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:33 PM
...and this means what to you?

don't be a pussy.

I think it's hilarious that you dress up like a dead guy and then you got pissy because the Chiefs wouldn't hook up with a discount so retire your dress up play suit but now you are back to wearing it.

Garcia Bronco
07-11-2011, 02:33 PM
All damned good careers. And I can see clerical training involved as well. Give the kids a choice but they have to choose between the two.

In Germany...and it's been 20 years since I studied this and things could have changed....You take a test before what amounts highschool. Based on that test's results you'll narrow down those school choices. It seems effective to get people to the right jobs.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 02:33 PM
Says the guy that makes the world go round. LMAO

Ironic, isn't it? Coming from what is possibly the most hated guy on the Planet.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:33 PM
Take your fat ass out of here frijole boy.

Aw, are you upset because someone is calling you out for being a racist pos again in the lounge?

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:34 PM
Ironic, isn't it? Coming from what is possibly the most hated guy on the Planet.

We've already been through this. I'm far from the most hated guy here. Post a poll if you doubt me.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 02:37 PM
In Germany...and it's been 20 years since I studied this and things could have changed....You take a test before what amounts highschool. Based on that test's results you'll narrow down those school choices. It seems effective to get people to the right jobs.

It sounds a lot like when we used to have vocational schools in the US. Somewhere along the way a stigma got attached to them but if it was repackaged and sold as hands-on experience it might fly.
Wwe would have traditional high school students, public works students, and the third group: those who choose to do neither.
Maybe we could tag them and ship them to mexico??

BucEyedPea
07-11-2011, 02:37 PM
If not ACT/SAT, what method would you suggest university admissions use to select students?

They don't select on scores alone as it is. They are part of the mix. Otherwise, I wouldn't suggest what each one should use. It should be up to them. I am just pointing out these are just another standardized test that gets used. Ringling School of Art puts no emphasis on them at all. They go by art talent and portfolio more which makes perfect senses. It's a very prestigious art school and is the the most sought after for animation and game arts by the movie and game industry.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:41 PM
I think it's hilarious that you dress up like a dead guy and then you got pissy because the Chiefs wouldn't hook up with a discount so retire your dress up play suit but now you are back to wearing it.

..you thinking it's hilarious means what?

I've never asked nor expected anything from the Chiefs, please prove otherwise.

....you don't have a clue why I retired, dipshit.

...and now that I'm back to wearing it..that means what?


are you gay? reason I ask is because most men aren't concerned about what other guys wear.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 02:41 PM
..you thinking it's hilarious means what?

I've never asked nor expected anything form the Chiefs, please prove otherwise.

....you don't have a clue why I retired, dipshit.

...and now that I'm back to wearing it means what?


I'll wait.

If we don't feed it then it will go away.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 02:43 PM
They don't select on scores alone as it is. They are part of the mix. Otherwise, I wouldn't suggest what each one should use. It should be up to them. I am just pointing out these are just another standardized test that gets used. Ringling School of Art puts no emphasis on them at all. They go by art talent and portfolio more which makes perfect senses. It's a very prestigious art school and is the the most sought after for animation and game arts by the movie and game industry.

That is as it should be, no doubt. Schools need to be free to select based on the specific capabilities students will need to succeed under their particular curriculum.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:47 PM
..you thinking it's hilarious means what?

I've never asked nor expected anything from the Chiefs, please prove otherwise.

....you don't have a clue why I retired, dipshit.

...and now that I'm back to wearing it..that means what?


are you gay? reason I ask is because most men aren't concerend about what other guys wear.

Really? So those threads in the lounge mentioning this last year are all lies?

Keep being defensive about a habit that most little girls drop when they are 7 years old. ROFL

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:48 PM
Really? So those threads in the lounge mentioning this last year are all lies?

Keep being defensive about a habit that most little girls drop when they are 7 years old. ROFL

GO GET ME A STRAW, NOW!!!

Or you can forget about a 15% tip, Paco.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:49 PM
GO GET ME A STRAW, NOW!!!

Or you can forget about a 15% tip, Paco.

wow, like that hasn't been posted here a thousand times already.

What happened to the new and improved shitty that you promised us when you were unbanned again?

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:50 PM
Really? So those threads in the lounge mentioning this last year are all lies?

Keep being defensive about a habit that most little girls drop when they are 7 years old. ROFL

this why I told you not to be a pussy, cause you can't answer the questions.

defensive? that's pretty funny coming from the guy who has used the same tired line since he's been here.

btw, hollywood disagrees with your logic.

bitter is no way to go through life, but somehow, I think you'll manage.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:51 PM
What happened to the new and improved shitty that you promised us when you were unbanned again?

It didn't include you, scumbag.

NewChief
07-11-2011, 02:52 PM
I'm not totally opposed to vocational schools. There are others out there, though, that believe we need to continue to provide a rounded education (meaning a liberal arts education) to all students. It's believed that one of American's strengths is this fact and that many of the people who innovate in our society might not succeed when they're in public school, but they may blossom later.

So you get some kid who hates school but is still acquiring those skills. This pays off later on down the road when the kid blossoms and starts up some innovative small business. If you start pigeonholing those kids in 8th grade or so, then that innovator gets "trapped" in a vocation.

I believe that a lot of pedagogy is actually moving in the correct direction, which is a blend of vocational and traditional. There's this whole framework called the rigor/relevance framework. Basically it challenges teachers to make their lessons relevant within the context of a student's world and community. This leads to a lot of hands-on, experiential learning and real-world projects.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:52 PM
this why I told you not to be a pussy, cause you can't answer the questions.

I answered it clearly. Sorry if you don't get it.


btw, hollywood disagrees with your logic.

ROFL So you're a hollywood actor now? ROFL

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:52 PM
this why I told you not to be a pussy, cause you can't answer the questions.

defensive? that's pretty funny coming from the guy who has used the same tired line since he's been here.

btw, hollywood disagrees with your logic.

bitter is no way to go through life, but somehow, I think you'll manage.

Serious question, do you think KC Naive and Flunkie are the same poster? Because they are so much alike.

It's like some white kid who was pretending to be a muslim and that wasn't enough so now he has to pretend to be a beaner, too.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:53 PM
It didn't include you, scumbag.

It didn't include anyone. More lies from you isn't surprising.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:54 PM
I answered it clearly. Sorry if you don't get it.




ROFL So you're a hollywood actor now? ROFL

you're flailing miserably., as usual.

you thinking it's hilarious means what?

my guess is you're an insecure asshole.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:54 PM
Serious question, do you think KC Naive and Flunkie are the same poster? Because they are so much alike.

It's like some white kid who was pretending to be a muslim and that wasn't enough so now he has to pretend to be a beaner, too.

Quoted for record so you don't edit out yet another racial slur.

The Mad Crapper
07-11-2011, 02:55 PM
It didn't include anyone. More lies from you isn't surprising.

OK. go ahead and name them since you're so preoccupied with it.

I guarantee it any motherfucking moonbat you name started shit with me first, INCLUDING YOU PEDRO.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:56 PM
I'm not totally opposed to vocational schools. There are others out there, though, that believe we need to continue to provide a rounded education (meaning a liberal arts education) to all students. It's believed that one of American's strengths is this fact and that many of the people who innovate in our society might not succeed when they're in public school, but they may blossom later.

So you get some kid who hates school but is still acquiring those skills. This pays off later on down the road when the kid blossoms and starts up some innovative small business. If you start pigeonholing those kids in 8th grade or so, then that innovator gets "trapped" in a vocation.

I believe that a lot of pedagogy is actually moving in the correct direction, which is a blend of vocational and traditional. There's this whole framework called the rigor/relevance framework. Basically it challenges teachers to make their lessons relevant within the context of a student's world and community. This leads to a lot of hands-on, experiential learning and real-world projects.


...my senior year, I went in early for industrial cooperative training, and got out @ 11 and worked a half day....schools still do that?

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:56 PM
you're flailing miserably., as usual.

you thinking it's hilarious means what?

my guess is you're an insecure asshole.

Insecure? Not at all. Laughing at a grown man that acts like my 7 year old niece, completely.

Garcia Bronco
07-11-2011, 02:56 PM
Hispanic=Another kind of European.

Garcia Bronco
07-11-2011, 02:57 PM
...my senior year, I went in early for industrial cooperative training, and got out @ 11 and worked a half day....schools still do that?

My junior high school did it in the late 80's.

KC native
07-11-2011, 02:58 PM
OK. go ahead and name them since you're so preoccupied with it.

I guarantee it any motherfucking moonbat you name started shit with me first, INCLUDING YOU PEDRO.

Sure they did. Worried about another ban soon?

NewChief
07-11-2011, 02:59 PM
...my senior year, I went in early for industrial cooperative training, and got out @ 11 and worked a half day....schools still do that?

Different districts vary on that. Our State made it much, much harder to do, as they require that students go to school for 7 hours a day (regardless of whether they need the credits or not). We have apprenticeship programs and community college vocational programs that students can either work or train off campus, but they're much less common than in the past. I think it's coming back around again (and in progressive, smart districts they're becoming more widespread), but the legislators are way, way behind the curve and put all kinds of ridiculous onerous legislation that ties the hands of the actual schools who wants to serve kids well.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 02:59 PM
Insecure? Not at all. Laughing at a grown man that acts like my 7 year old niece, completely.

and you think that means what?

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:00 PM
and you think that means what?

Arm chair psychology isn't your strong suit.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Different districts vary on that. Our State made it much, much harder to do, as they require that students go to school for 7 hours a day (regardless of whether they need the credits or not). We have apprenticeship programs and community college vocational programs that students can either work or train off campus, but they're much less common than in the past. I think it's coming back around again (and in progressive, smart districts they're becoming more widespread), but the legislators are way, way behind the curve and put all kinds of ridiculous onerous legislation that ties the hands of the actual schools who wants to serve kids well.

I'll defer to you, but your last line sounds like an encompassing point that works against you and other teachers.

I know you are passionate about your job, it must be nerve racking.

NewChief
07-11-2011, 03:02 PM
I should add that there's been a lot of great work done in vocational lately through Perkins funds.
http://www2.ed.gov/offices/OVAE/CTE/perkins.html

stevieray
07-11-2011, 03:05 PM
Arm chair psychology isn't your strong suit.

answer the question pussy.

you made the claim., now back it up.

Bob Dole
07-11-2011, 03:05 PM
NCLB assumes that one size fits all when nothing could be farther from the truth. I am as staunch an education supporter as they come. Public schools have to be dealt with at the local level.

Bob Dole would argue that "at the local level" holds pretty much true for nearly everything. (Excepting interstate transportation, national defense, etc.)

If Bob Dole doesn't like Bowie County, TX Policy X, Bob Dole can move to Cass County, TX where they have Policy Y fairly easily. If Bob Dole doesn't like Texas policy on X, Bob Dole can fairly easily move to Arkansas or Louisiana where the policy is Y. When everything is mandated by the Feds, the options to escape the tyranny of the majority are severely limited.

Saul Good
07-11-2011, 03:08 PM
Serious question, do you think KC Naive and Flunkie are the same poster? Because they are so much alike.

It's like some white kid who was pretending to be a muslim and that wasn't enough so now he has to pretend to be a person of Hispanic heritage, too.

He's nothing like Frankie. He's more like Claythan if he traded the Boba Fett helmet for a sombrero and gained back the weight he lost.

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:09 PM
answer the question pussy.

you made the claim., now back it up.

How am I supposed to back up that I find the fact that you dress up like my 7 year old niece hilarious?

Think about that for a second stevi.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 03:12 PM
you're flailing miserably., as usual.

you thinking it's hilarious means what?

my guess is you're an insecure asshole.

Of course he's insecure. You see the pic he posted of himself? Fat assed boy shaped like an avacado with some sort of prison-looking ink on him.
Pedro the Hutt.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 03:13 PM
Bob Dole would argue that "at the local level" holds pretty much true for nearly everything. (Excepting interstate transportation, national defense, etc.)

If Bob Dole doesn't like Bowie County, TX Policy X, Bob Dole can move to Cass County, TX where they have Policy Y fairly easily. If Bob Dole doesn't like Texas policy on X, Bob Dole can fairly easily move to Arkansas or Louisiana where the policy is Y. When everything is mandated by the Feds, the options to escape the tyranny of the majority are severely limited.

Yes. Federal government is meant to be kept at an absolute minimum.
This is why leftists, obama and the like are dangerous if permitted to remain in power.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 03:14 PM
How am I supposed to back up that I find the fact that you dress up like my 7 year old niece hilarious?

Think about that for a second stevi.

..you can't, and that's the point. you think it means something, when it doesn't mean squat.

OMG!!! did you see Jeff Bridges dressing up like an 1880's Sheriff in True Grit?

just like my niece!!!

:rolleyes:

dude, you've brought nothing to the thread except BS.

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:16 PM
..you can't, and that's the point. you think it means something, when it doesn't mean squat.

OMG!!! did you see Jeff Bridges dressing up like an 1880's Sheriff in True Grit?

just like my neice!!!

:rolleyes:

dude, you've brought nothing to the thread except BS.

Big difference there, Jeff Bridges got paid to do that. You, otoh....

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:19 PM
Of course he's insecure. You see the pic he posted of himself? Fat assed boy shaped like an avacado with some sort of prison-looking ink on him.
Pedro the Hutt.

I'm happy with my body. I don't give a shit if I'm not in high school shape anymore. I eat what I want when I want and in the amounts I want. If I was insecure about it, do you really think I would have even posted a pic?

Also, my ink is fucking bad ass. Large tattoos /=/ prison ink.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 03:21 PM
I'm happy with my body. I don't give a shit if I'm not in high school shape anymore. I eat what I want when I want and in the amounts I want. If I was insecure about it, do you really think I would have even posted a pic?

Also, my ink is ****ing bad ass. Large tattoos /=/ prison ink.

It is obvious you eat what you want when you want. Disgustingly so.
Tell it to someone who gives a shit Pedro and that certainly isn't me. If I ever saw you near my lot I'd have you detained and escorted no questions asked.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Big difference there, Jeff Bridges got paid to do that. You, otoh....

how does that make it different?

I know how much you need this to mean something, but your case is weak sauce...especially considering I've been paid in the past and will again in about 10 days.

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Tell it to someone who give a shit Pedro and that certainly isn't me. If I ever saw you near my lot I'd have you detained and escorted no questions asked.

You wouldn't do shit. You're one of the many right wing pussies out here with a false sense of bravado. When it comes time to actually do something, you turn to a keyboard and post on CP.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 03:23 PM
You wouldn't do shit. You're one of the many right wing pussies out here with a false sense of bravado. When it comes time to actually do something, you turn to a keyboard and post on CP.

You ever get tired of being hated wherever you go?

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:25 PM
You ever get tired of being hated wherever you go?

Why do think it's so important to be liked on an internet message board? Do you have a shortage of friends in real life?

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:26 PM
how does that make it different?

I know how much you need this to mean something, but your case is weak sauce...especially considering I've been paid in the past and will again in about 10 days.

Jeff Bridges is a professional. You are an adult who acts like a little girl. Keep comparing yourself to him. It makes you look awesome.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 03:31 PM
Jeff Bridges is a professional. You are an adult who acts like a little girl. Keep comparing yourself to him. It makes you look awesome.

and if I'm getting paid, what does that make me? remember, that was YOUR deflecting standard.

I never compared myself to Jeff Bridges, you mental midget...meanwhile you keep comparing someone who plays a character to a little girl..and that is supposed to mean what?

cmon now, enlighten us.

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:35 PM
and if I'm getting paid, what does that make me? remember, that was YOUR deflecting standard.

I never compared myself to Jeff Bridges, you mental midget...meanwhile you keep comparing someone who plays a character to a little girl..and that is supposed to mean what?

cmon now, enlighten us.

ROFL Keep banging that drum stevi.

go bowe
07-11-2011, 03:35 PM
Serious question, do you think KC Naive and Flunkie are the same poster? Because they are so much alike.

It's like some white kid who was pretending to be a muslim and that wasn't enough so now he has to pretend to be a beaner, too.

greaseball?

beaner?

what was it you got banned for again? :clap: :clap: :clap:

KC native
07-11-2011, 03:38 PM
greaseball?

beaner?

what was it you got banned for again? :clap: :clap: :clap:

but he's trying to change. Remember? ROFL

stevieray
07-11-2011, 03:40 PM
ROFL Keep banging that drum stevi.

keep avoiding the question.

....damn. you really are a chickenshit.

Bwana
07-11-2011, 04:43 PM
Quoted for record so you don't edit out yet another racial slur.

Racial slur.......really?

Jaric
07-11-2011, 04:57 PM
Racial slur.......really?

I looked for 5 minutes and couldn't find it.

But then again, I'm not up to date on all the hip new "lingo" kids these days are using.

banyon
07-11-2011, 05:16 PM
It didn't include you, scumbag.

Who does it include, exactly? Because it seems like you're still pretty much a hateful ahole to anyone who disagrees with you.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-11-2011, 05:42 PM
Racial slur.......really?

I looked for 5 minutes and couldn't find it.

But then again, I'm not up to date on all the hip new "lingo" kids these days are using.

I've already talked to Bwana, and Phobia about this. The word filter turns b-e-a-n-e-r into "Person of Hispanic Heritage" when it's turned on. If the filter is turned off and allows profanity, you see the actual word.

It was a racial slur, not one that I find much different than the n word, and a multiple offense. TMC has been banned permanently, and if future mults are discovered, they will be banned as well. I know it's DC, and we don't moderate much in here, but racism is something that will not be tolerated anywhere on this board.

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 05:44 PM
LMAO

Bans make me laugh.

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 05:44 PM
Has Crapper been banned more than Thomas Cash?

stevieray
07-11-2011, 05:45 PM
but racism is something that will not be tolerated anywhere on this board.
...unless it's something disparaging against caucasians.

Bewbies
07-11-2011, 05:49 PM
...unless it's something disparaging against caucasians.

Only a cracker would say something like that.

Jaric
07-11-2011, 05:50 PM
I've already talked to Bwana, and Phobia about this. The word filter turns b-e-a-n-e-r into "Person of Hispanic Heritage" when it's turned on. If the filter is turned off and allows profanity, you see the actual word.

It was a racial slur, not one that I find much different than the n word, and a multiple offense. TMC has been banned permanently, and if future mults are discovered, they will be banned as well. I know it's DC, and we don't moderate much in here, but racism is something that will not be tolerated anywhere on this board.
:doh!:

Had no idea. I guess you do learn something everyday.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/Hollywood142/TheMoreYouKnowFalcon.jpg

Brock
07-11-2011, 05:52 PM
...unless it's something disparaging against caucasians.

Shut up, graymeat.

BucEyedPea
07-11-2011, 05:53 PM
Hispanic=Another kind of European.

Essentially.

banyon
07-11-2011, 05:58 PM
They can afford more than we think once we remove the high cost requirements from Washington.

People are amazing really, we actually do the right thing in most cases. Thus once they get focussed on the real needs of the district and get the costs of operation in line, if and when they have a clear money need, the state and the local taxing body will manage it very well.

They did for many years and can do so again.


We do it on our volunteer fire departments, our county governments, our small towns and cities, our library boards and hospitals just as we did our schools before Washington decided we were to ignorant and needed oversight.

People already complain in my district that our property taxes are at an all time high.

I think we would bankrupt the county without Headstart and the school lunch program because very few of the parents of 75% of our school age students actually pay property taxes. That, and when they live 10 to a house, the payout to payin ratio changes quite a bit.

vailpass
07-11-2011, 06:05 PM
Holy frijole.

BucEyedPea
07-11-2011, 06:11 PM
Gee America wasn't bankrupt before Head Start.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 06:23 PM
Shut up, graymeat.

LOL


but, but, I've got Apache in my bloodline.

Cave Johnson
07-11-2011, 06:42 PM
City folk out there: read the metro/local section of your paper. It will depress the shit out of you how often the stories of The Wire repeat themselves in real life. I was reading a story yesterday about the ultra-miserable Kansas City school district. They have a new superintendent, hired with much fanfare, and this story was about his plans in place that will unify the curriculum and boost standardized test scores by six percent or more. I punched the paper away from me in disgust.

Word.

RedNeckRaider
07-11-2011, 06:45 PM
I'm happy with my body. I don't give a shit if I'm not in high school shape anymore. I eat what I want when I want and in the amounts I want. If I was insecure about it, do you really think I would have even posted a pic?

Also, my ink is ****ing bad ass. Large tattoos /=/ prison ink.

I would like to see that pic keyboard tough guy~

KC native
07-11-2011, 07:05 PM
I would like to see that pic keyboard tough guy~

It's still on here bitch boy. Go find it.

RedNeckRaider
07-11-2011, 08:02 PM
It's still on here bitch boy. Go find it.

I sure will enjoy it if we ever cross paths at a Chiefs game :)

Donger
07-11-2011, 08:20 PM
LMAO

NewChief
07-11-2011, 08:25 PM
Oh well. With all the time his banning will free up, TMC should be able to adopt 5 or 6 inner city foster kids instead of just one.

KC native
07-11-2011, 09:06 PM
I sure will enjoy it if we ever cross paths at a Chiefs game :)

I guarantee you won't internet tough guy.

go bowe
07-11-2011, 10:13 PM
Oh well. With all the time his banning will free up, TMC should be able to adopt 5 or 6 inner city foster kids instead of just one.

yep, god led him in that direction after all...

ClevelandBronco
07-11-2011, 10:25 PM
I've already talked to Bwana, and Phobia about this. The word filter turns b-e-a-n-e-r into "Person of Hispanic Heritage" when it's turned on. If the filter is turned off and allows profanity, you see the actual word.

It was a racial slur, not one that I find much different than the n word, and a multiple offense. TMC has been banned permanently, and if future mults are discovered, they will be banned as well. I know it's DC, and we don't moderate much in here, but racism is something that will not be tolerated anywhere on this board.

That's a bullshit ban.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 10:27 PM
That's a bullshit ban.

I tend to agree....the filter doesn't allow a racial slur, just like the word ****...are we going to ban everyone who uses the F word?

stevieray
07-11-2011, 10:29 PM
yep, god led him in that direction after all...

what are you mocking, GB?

stevieray
07-11-2011, 10:30 PM
I guarantee you won't internet tough guy.

no offense, but I guarantee you want no part of Jeff.

...you might as well challenge mohillbilly.

KC native
07-11-2011, 10:56 PM
no offense, but I guarantee you want no part of Jeff.

...you might as well challenge mohillbilly.


I'm not a pussy like you stevie. I have never, nor will I ever, back down from anyone. I've gotten my ass kicked more than once but I will take an ass kicking over being a little bitch and running away.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 10:57 PM
I'm not a pussy like you stevie.

bring it, mouth.

KC native
07-11-2011, 11:00 PM
bring it, mouth.

Uh oh, you going to get your internet tough guy posse of you, redneck, vail, and shitty to come get me? ROFL

stevieray
07-11-2011, 11:00 PM
being a little bitch and running away.

you already did that in this thread.

stevieray
07-11-2011, 11:03 PM
Uh oh, you going to get your internet tough guy posse of you, redneck, vail, and shitty to come get me? ROFL

not necessary., cause you're all talk.

banyon
07-12-2011, 06:03 AM
That's a bullshit ban.

Good for a bullshit poster then.

banyon
07-12-2011, 06:05 AM
Gee America wasn't bankrupt before Head Start.

county, not country.

My post doesn't mean what you think it means.

Donger
07-12-2011, 06:44 AM
I've already talked to Bwana, and Phobia about this. The word filter turns b-e-a-n-e-r into "Person of Hispanic Heritage" when it's turned on. If the filter is turned off and allows profanity, you see the actual word.

It was a racial slur, not one that I find much different than the n word, and a multiple offense. TMC has been banned permanently, and if future mults are discovered, they will be banned as well. I know it's DC, and we don't moderate much in here, but racism is something that will not be tolerated anywhere on this board.

Hang on. He didn't bypass the filter and got banned because he didn't bypass the filter?

ClevelandBronco
07-12-2011, 07:17 AM
Hang on. He didn't bypass the filter and got banned because he didn't bypass the filter?

Exactly. Bullshit.

Correction: Chickenshit.

Donger
07-12-2011, 08:19 AM
Exactly. Bullshit.

Correction: Chickenshit.

In that case, perhaps the person(s) offended should enable their filter?

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 09:43 AM
I'm not a pussy like you stevie. I have never, nor will I ever, back down from anyone. I've gotten my ass kicked more than once but I will take an ass kicking over being a little bitch and running away.

This type of talk only confirms what I have always thought. You ain’t no fighter boy. There would be no fight between us unless you were foolish enough to force me to defend myself. The I would never back down talk is amusing to me. There is a time to walk away and only a fool engages in a fight with a stranger over nothing more than pride. You have never truly had your ass kicked or you would not have this take on all comers outlook. This is the talk of someone who has never witnessed or been a part of a situation that has gone out of control. Unorganized fighting is an extremely dangerous hobby and often results in someone going to jail and someone going to the hospital or worse~

WilliamTheIrish
07-12-2011, 10:07 AM
OK. go ahead and name them since you're so preoccupied with it.

I guarantee it any mother****ing moonbat you name started shit with me first, INCLUDING YOU PEDRO.

If you're using this defense at your current age ("He started it"), then yes, the current educational system is a failure.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 11:26 AM
Why should someone have to turn a filter on to avoid racist remarks? If i knew you were calling someone the n word id ban you whether it was filtered or not. If any of you don't like decisions that are made, feel free to call a meeting of the elders and apply for my job. Racism is not tolerated on this board. Filtered or not. It's in the rule book.

vailpass
07-12-2011, 12:10 PM
I would like to see that pic keyboard tough guy~

No you wouldn't want to see the pic of Pedro the Hut. Flabby dude shaped like an avacado. It explains why he tries to talk tough.

go bowe
07-12-2011, 12:11 PM
what are you mocking, GB?

crappy said something about god leading him to wanting to adopt kids...

i was mocking crappy...

vailpass
07-12-2011, 12:13 PM
Frijole freedom.

go bowe
07-12-2011, 12:28 PM
Frijole freedom.

frijoles are made of beans, right?

beans can lead to bannings; or at least smelly farts...

dirk digler
07-12-2011, 12:30 PM
I've already talked to Bwana, and Phobia about this. The word filter turns b-e-a-n-e-r into "Person of Hispanic Heritage" when it's turned on. If the filter is turned off and allows profanity, you see the actual word.

It was a racial slur, not one that I find much different than the n word, and a multiple offense. TMC has been banned permanently, and if future mults are discovered, they will be banned as well. I know it's DC, and we don't moderate much in here, but racism is something that will not be tolerated anywhere on this board.

Wow. I wondered how many strikes he would be given.

He knows the rules around here it can't be this hard to self moderate but for some reason it is for him.

vailpass
07-12-2011, 12:59 PM
frijoles are made of beans, right?

beans can lead to bannings; or at least smelly farts...

Especially if you eat beans on crackers.

go bowe
07-12-2011, 01:09 PM
Especially if you eat beans on crackers.

i'll defer to your superior knowledge of the subject... ;)

Bewbies
07-12-2011, 01:16 PM
Especially if you eat beans on crackers.

What you have to watch out for are dudes that want to taste a crackers beans.

Cave Johnson
07-12-2011, 01:19 PM
Stats will be juked.

vailpass
07-12-2011, 01:33 PM
What you have to watch out for are dudes that want to taste a crackers beans.

:eek: LMAO

Garcia Bronco
07-12-2011, 01:50 PM
Free speech...you either believe in it...or you don't. I mean I refered to Atlanta as "Chocolate City"...which could be constrewed as a racial slur.

Of course race can be defined by ethnic background, geographical area, or political borders.

So if I say "Dumbass Mexicans" or "Dumbass Swiss" or "Dumbasses in the next town"...I am making a racial slur

The word Redneck is also a racial slur...and btw...we prefer the term "Appalachian-American"

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 02:03 PM
Free speech...you either believe in it...or you don't. I mean I refered to Atlanta as "Chocolate City"...which could be constrewed as a racial slur.

Of course race can be defined by ethnic background, geographical area, or political borders.

So if I say "Dumbass Mexicans" or "Dumbass Swiss" or "Dumbasses in the next town"...I am making a racial slur

The word Redneck is also a racial slur...and btw...we prefer the term "Appalachian-American"

Does this mean I am going to have to change my username?

Garcia Bronco
07-12-2011, 02:08 PM
Does this mean I am going to have to change my username?

:)

I guess. If we are going to throw people out because we don't like the way they express themselves. I am not one to throw around racial slurs but it's happened before...

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 02:12 PM
:)

I guess. If we are going to throw people out because we don't like the way they express themselves. I am not one to throw around racial slurs but it's happened before...

PersonWhoWearsCowboyBootsAndDrivesATruckRaider just does not have the same ring to it~ :)

dirk digler
07-12-2011, 02:13 PM
Free speech...you either believe in it...or you don't. I mean I refered to Atlanta as "Chocolate City"...which could be constrewed as a racial slur.

Of course race can be defined by ethnic background, geographical area, or political borders.

So if I say "Dumbass Mexicans" or "Dumbass Swiss" or "Dumbasses in the next town"...I am making a racial slur

The word Redneck is also a racial slur...and btw...we prefer the term "Appalachian-American"

Anyone that went to VT...oh I mean WV to school is a red neck and I don't care what you say. :)

Donger
07-12-2011, 02:24 PM
Why should someone have to turn a filter on to avoid racist remarks? If i knew you were calling someone the n word id ban you whether it was filtered or not. If any of you don't like decisions that are made, feel free to call a meeting of the elders and apply for my job. Racism is not tolerated on this board. Filtered or not. It's in the rule book.

Okay, so even filtered racism isn't tolerated, correct?

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 02:25 PM
Free speech...you either believe in it...or you don't. I mean I refered to Atlanta as "Chocolate City"...which could be constrewed as a racial slur.

Of course race can be defined by ethnic background, geographical area, or political borders.

So if I say "Dumbass Mexicans" or "Dumbass Swiss" or "Dumbasses in the next town"...I am making a racial slur

The word Redneck is also a racial slur...and btw...we prefer the term "Appalachian-American"

I absolutely believe in free speech. You, TMC, and everyone else is free to say anything you want to anyone you want at anytime. However, this isn't a court of law. This is a bulletin board that has established a set of rules. We don't follow the constitution, and this is not a democracy. I have said these things since LONG before I became a mod. You choose to come here. By choosing to come here, you agree to follow the rules. If you don't agree, then we reserve the right to refuse service.

And we're pretty lenient on it. Personally, I think there are a lot of off the cuff remarks that are made that the powers that be have decided to let slide. I wouldn't. But I don't make the rules here. I just enforce them as I'm asked too by the guy who pays for the board every month.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 02:27 PM
Okay, so even filtered racism isn't tolerated, correct?

Yes sir. The problem is, nigger, looks a lot like fucker if the filters are on. Mine aren't on. So I will know the difference. And again, according to the powers that be, it needs to be blatant.

This isn't new. It's not new rules. There won't be this new level of moderating. TMC had a ton of chances. And I didn't make the decision alone. I always seek opinions in case I'm seeing something that no one else is.

Donger
07-12-2011, 02:33 PM
Yes sir. The problem is, ****er, looks a lot like ****er if the filters are on. Mine aren't on. So I will know the difference. And again, according to the powers that be, it needs to be blatant.

This isn't new. It's not new rules. There won't be this new level of moderating. TMC had a ton of chances. And I didn't make the decision alone. I always seek opinions in case I'm seeing something that no one else is.

I can understand that. How about something like "Speedy Gonzalez"? Is that acceptable?

Jaric
07-12-2011, 02:35 PM
Am I allowed to call frenchmen "frogs?"

If not, I'm not really sure I can continue to post here.

vailpass
07-12-2011, 02:36 PM
How about "blockhead"?
Do we have any Macedonians on the board?

FWIW I commend Flop, Face and the rest of the mods for doing a damn good job of moderating without dictating on what has to be one of the hardest boards on the interwebs to babysit.

go bowe
07-12-2011, 02:38 PM
Yes sir. The problem is, ****er, looks a lot like fucker if the filters are on. Mine aren't on. So I will know the difference. And again, according to the powers that be, it needs to be blatant.

This isn't new. It's not new rules. There won't be this new level of moderating. TMC had a ton of chances. And I didn't make the decision alone. I always seek opinions in case I'm seeing something that no one else is.
you just have it in for the guy, that's what it is...

yeah, that's it... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 02:38 PM
I can understand that. How about something like "Speedy Gonzalez"? Is that acceptable?

To me, that's racist. However, it's not blatant. And honestly, even though it's racist to me, it's not really ban worthy even if it is my call. Because the fact is, at this point we do allow people to be called rednecks, and crackers, and a litany of other white disparaging names.

But let's be honest, white on white hate terms isn't the same as white on another race. And I may have a meeting with the Elder tribe to discuss people of other races using terms against white people. But someone will have to make a pretty compelling case to me that redneck is a super sensitive word that sparks hurt, anger, and shame.

Good luck with that. I mean shit, I just called you a limey bastard the other day. I think it was obvious I was kidding, but even if I were not, would you have been greatly offended?

I have to get off of here for awhile, but I'll definitely check the thread later for some caucasian persuasion. :)

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 02:40 PM
you just have it in for the guy, that's what it is...

yeah, that's it... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I don't like racist qualities in anyone, but I actually liked TMC. He wasn't a bad guy. Just angry, and passionate about his beliefs. He stuck to his guns, and he wasn't afraid to throw down a little bit. I admired him for those qualities, even when I thought he was dead fucking wrong.

Really, it's a shame. Even if you didn't like him, it's hard for anyone to say seriously that he brought nothing to the board. He won't be missed by all, but he will be missed by some, myself included.

Donger
07-12-2011, 02:41 PM
To me, that's racist. However, it's not blatant. And honestly, even though it's racist to me, it's not really ban worthy even if it is my call. Because the fact is, at this point we do allow people to be called rednecks, and crackers, and a litany of other white disparaging names.

But let's be honest, white on white hate terms isn't the same as white on another race. And I may have a meeting with the Elder tribe to discuss people of other races using terms against white people. But someone will have to make a pretty compelling case to me that redneck is a super sensitive word that sparks hurt, anger, and shame.

Good luck with that. I mean shit, I just called you a limey bastard the other day. I think it was obvious I was kidding, but even if I were not, would you have been greatly offended?

I have to get off of here for awhile, but I'll definitely check the thread later for some caucasian persuasion. :)

But it isn't racist, any more than someone calling me a limey. Speedy was the fastest mouse in all of Mexico, not of all Hispanics. Let alone that Hispanic isn't a race.

And, no, I wouldn't have been offended if you called me a limey. That's just making fun of the people of a specific country.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 02:41 PM
How about "blockhead"?
Do we have any Macedonians on the board?

FWIW I commend Flop, Face and the rest of the mods for doing a damn good job of moderating without dictating on what has to be one of the hardest boards on the interwebs to babysit.

I appreciate that, whitey.

Jaric
07-12-2011, 02:42 PM
But it isn't racist, any more than someone calling me a limey. Speedy was the fastest mouse in all of Mexico, not of all Hispanics. Let alone that Hispanic isn't a race.

And, no, I wouldn't have been offended if you called me a limey. That's just making fun of the people of a specific country.

Wanker.

:shake:

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 02:44 PM
But it isn't racist, any more than someone calling me a limey. Speedy was the fastest mouse in all of Mexico, not of all Hispanics. Let alone that Hispanic isn't a race.

And, no, I wouldn't have been offended if you called me a limey. That's just making fun of the people of a specific country.

But if you're referring to a Mexican that isn't speedy, then what is it? Sarcasm for them being dumber than a box of rocks? If so, that's fair and your point is taken. In any case, I wouldn't ban someone for it.

If any of you guys have been paying 1 oz. of attention to my posts over the last 6 and a half years here, you know I am against banning 99.9% of the people who get brought up for bans. There are really only a couple of instances where I'm for it. And not being popular amongst the base isn't one of them.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 02:45 PM
I really gotta get out of here. I will check back on the thread later, and we can discuss it further, or I'll read some creative, and some not so creative insults. :)

vailpass
07-12-2011, 02:46 PM
I appreciate that, whitey.

:D You don't know what color I am. This could be me...

*NSFW*

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BHFUH_frhBw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 02:47 PM
PersonWhoWearsCowboyBootsAndDrivesATruckRaider just does not have the same ring to it~ :)

LMAO

Mr. Flopnuts
07-12-2011, 02:48 PM
LMAO

Thank you for being sensitive to the outrage of trailer dwelling white people. :D

Donger
07-12-2011, 02:50 PM
But if you're referring to a Mexican that isn't speedy, then what is it? Sarcasm for them being dumber than a box of rocks? If so, that's fair and your point is taken. In any case, I wouldn't ban someone for it.

If any of you guys have been paying 1 oz. of attention to my posts over the last 6 and a half years here, you know I am against banning 99.9% of the people who get brought up for bans. There are really only a couple of instances where I'm for it. And not being popular amongst the base isn't one of them.

Miscountryism?

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 02:50 PM
Thank you for being sensitive to the outrage of trailer dwelling white people. :D

I damn near spit my beer on the screen when I read it~

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 03:04 PM
Anyone that went to VT...oh I mean WV to school is a AppalachianAmerican and I don't care what you say. :)

FYP :)

KC native
07-12-2011, 03:12 PM
This type of talk only confirms what I have always thought. You ain’t no fighter boy. There would be no fight between us unless you were foolish enough to force me to defend myself. The I would never back down talk is amusing to me. There is a time to walk away and only a fool engages in a fight with a stranger over nothing more than pride. You have never truly had your ass kicked or you would not have this take on all comers outlook. This is the talk of someone who has never witnessed or been a part of a situation that has gone out of control. Unorganized fighting is an extremely dangerous hobby and often results in someone going to jail and someone going to the hospital or worse~

I don't go looking for fights, however if one comes my way I'm not going to back down. I haven't been in a fistfight in over 7 years. However I've been jumped with a nightstick and 4 people. I've truly had my ass kicked. I can assure you that if you ever wanted to take it further than you internet tough guy talk, I would oblige you.

Where I'm from, backing down is worse than getting your ass kicked. I'll gladly take a beat down over backing away in a bitch ass fashion like you are with this post.

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 03:19 PM
I don't go looking for fights, however if one comes my way I'm not going to back down. I haven't been in a fistfight in over 7 years. However I've been jumped with a nightstick and 4 people. I've truly had my ass kicked. I can assure you that if you ever wanted to take it further than you internet tough guy talk, I would oblige you.

Where I'm from, backing down is worse than getting your ass kicked. I'll gladly take a beat down over backing away in a bitch ass fashion like you are with this post.

LMAO what a crock of shit~

KC native
07-12-2011, 03:20 PM
LMAO what a crock of shit~

Run away as fast as you can from your post, internet tough guy.

Brock
07-12-2011, 03:22 PM
yawn.

Jaric
07-12-2011, 03:22 PM
yawn.

You talking shit brock? Cause my epeen is WAY bigger than yours is and I demand satisfaction!

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 03:23 PM
Run away as fast as you can from your post, internet tough guy.

We aint fighting dipshit LMAO who is the internet tough guy? I have nothing to prove to you. Man you are a fucking clown. How old are you 12?

Donger
07-12-2011, 03:25 PM
Run away as fast as you can from your post, internet tough guy.

Run away like this?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKgvbE4xQTFMBt0Vk2ma7FuU6yKo2qjq7Y851rOAT5c8UDxRWQ

KC native
07-12-2011, 03:25 PM
We aint fighting dipshit LMAO who is the internet tough guy? I have nothing to prove to you. Man you are a fucking clown. How old are you 12?

Yea, I know we won't because you've already said you're backing down from what you said earlier.

Do I need to remind you who made the comment about kicking someone's ass first or are you going to pretend like that didn't happen?

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 03:33 PM
Yea, I know we won't because you've already said you're backing down from what you said earlier.

Do I need to remind you who made the comment about kicking someone's ass first or are you going to pretend like that didn't happen?

I assure you I will enjoy it very much if we cross paths at a Chiefs game scooter. That is not a threat it is a fact. I never said I was going to kick your ass you fucking twit. I will enjoy seeing how you act face to face. I am certain it will be much different than you do here. I am not an internet tough guy and often go to games when the Raiders are in town~

vailpass
07-12-2011, 04:04 PM
Yea, I know we won't because you've already said you're backing down from what you said earlier.

Do I need to remind you who made the comment about kicking someone's ass first or are you going to pretend like that didn't happen?

Know how I know you are a complete loser?

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Run away like this?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKgvbE4xQTFMBt0Vk2ma7FuU6yKo2qjq7Y851rOAT5c8UDxRWQ

LMAO

Garcia Bronco
07-12-2011, 04:45 PM
Anyone that went to VT...oh I mean WV to school is a red neck and I don't care what you say. :)

You sayin' I went to WVU? That's a racial slur.

I am offended and by the glory of the lord I'll see you swing for this. Consider it a federal case.

Garcia Bronco
07-12-2011, 04:53 PM
I absolutely believe in free speech. You, TMC, and everyone else is free to say anything you want to anyone you want at anytime. However, this isn't a court of law. This is a bulletin board that has established a set of rules. We don't follow the constitution, and this is not a democracy. I have said these things since LONG before I became a mod. You choose to come here. By choosing to come here, you agree to follow the rules. If you don't agree, then we reserve the right to refuse service.

And we're pretty lenient on it. Personally, I think there are a lot of off the cuff remarks that are made that the powers that be have decided to let slide. I wouldn't. But I don't make the rules here. I just enforce them as I'm asked too by the guy who pays for the board every month.

I disagree with the rule on the principles of free expression. Not the ruling. If people are breaking the rules the practice should be to enforce the rules on a case by case basis.

RedNeckRaider
07-12-2011, 04:56 PM
You sayin' I went to WVU? That's a racial slur.

I am offended and by the glory of the lord I'll see you swing for this. Consider it a federal case.

Because of you I was AppalachianAmericanRaider for over 15 minutes! Dang freedom fighters~

Garcia Bronco
07-13-2011, 08:17 AM
Because of you I was AppalachianAmericanRaider for over 15 minutes! Dang freedom fighters~

I don't believe you. Mods...I am gonna need to see this.

RedNeckRaider
07-13-2011, 08:19 AM
I don't believe you. Mods...I am gonna need to see this.

Stop it! just stop it now :)

Bill Parcells
07-16-2011, 05:05 PM
No you wouldn't want to see the pic of Pedro the Hut. Flabby dude shaped like an avacado. It explains why he tries to talk tough.

Is this him?

http://www.jackclarke.net/images/mexliclg.jpg

Bill Parcells
07-16-2011, 05:07 PM
Well, at least now that hes perma banned I dont have to listen to the whining and crying about him anymore.

It's a good good situation.

Lo Spruzzatore
07-20-2011, 09:20 AM
Hang on. He didn't bypass the filter and got banned because he didn't bypass the filter?

Exactly. Bullshit.

Correction: Chickenshit.


You guys are absolutely right. Here's what happened:

Two months ago, I got a 30 day ban not for using the word F A G G O T , but for bypassing the filter. Phobia PM'd me and told me to write the word out without spaces. So I did. I typed out B E A N E R only I didn't put any spaces between the letters, and I get banned for that. :banghead:

Let's see, here are my offenses (as SHTSPRAYER and The Mad Crapper):

I used the words, w e tback, b ea n er, sand monkey, and f a g got in a post. :rolleyes:

What a joke.

I absolutely believe in free speech. You, TMC, and everyone else is free to say anything you want to anyone you want at anytime. However, this isn't a court of law. This is a bulletin board that has established a set of rules. We don't follow the constitution, and this is not a democracy. I have said these things since LONG before I became a mod. You choose to come here. By choosing to come here, you agree to follow the rules. If you don't agree, then we reserve the right to refuse service.

And we're pretty lenient on it. Personally, I think there are a lot of off the cuff remarks that are made that the powers that be have decided to let slide. I wouldn't. But I don't make the rules here. I just enforce them as I'm asked too by the guy who pays for the board every month.

Hey man, all I gotta say to you is I hope you're not a spineless worm in real life like you are here. The chickenshit way you banned me when i was just doing what I was told by Phobia and then like a total shemale implicating all the other mods because you don't have the balls to take credit for it all by yourself truly is pathetic. See you around.

nlm

Mr. Flopnuts
07-20-2011, 12:14 PM
Oh. My bad. I thought I was pretty clear that I banned you. But I always get a 2nd opinion before pulling the trigger. But yeah, it was me. My idea, and I'm the one that performed the action.

So that said, bye.

KC native
07-20-2011, 02:46 PM
You guys are absolutely right. Here's what happened:

Two months ago, I got a 30 day ban not for using the word F A G G O T , but for bypassing the filter. Phobia PM'd me and told me to write the word out without spaces. So I did. I typed out B E A N E R only I didn't put any spaces between the letters, and I get banned for that. :banghead:

Let's see, here are my offenses (as SHTSPRAYER and The Mad Crapper):

I used the words, w e tback, b ea n er, sand monkey, and f a g got in a post. :rolleyes:

What a joke.



Hey man, all I gotta say to you is I hope you're not a spineless worm in real life like you are here. The chickenshit way you banned me when i was just doing what I was told by Phobia and then like a total shemale implicating all the other mods because you don't have the balls to take credit for it all by yourself truly is pathetic. See you around.

nlm


ROFL tom c@sh redux. Get a life meth head.

Bob Dole
07-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Despite cheating scandals, testing and teaching are not at odds

By Arne Duncan, Published: July 19

Recent news reports of widespread or suspected cheating on standardized tests in several school districts around the country have been taken by some as evidence that we must reduce reliance on testing to measure student growth and achievement. Others have gone even farther, claiming that cheating is an inevitable consequence of “high-stakes testing” and that we should abandon testing altogether.

To be sure, there are lessons to be learned from these jarring incidents, but the existence of cheating says nothing about the merits of testing. Instead, cheating reflects a willingness to lie at children’s expense to avoid accountability—an approach I reject entirely.

It is also an approach rejected by the vast majority of educators, who would never participate in or excuse cheating. The Atlanta cheating scandal has been described as the worst known incident of systemic cheating, so it is worth noting that even there investigators found cheating in 44 out of 2,232 schools in Georgia.

Unfortunately, cheating does happen. The 1990s saw a rash of cases where state and school officials masked underperformance of low-income or minority students or students with disabilities by excluding or hiding their test results. No Child Left Behind helped address this problem by requiring transparency around achievement gaps, but it prompted another form of cheating by setting rigid pass/fail targets based on test scores that failed to measure progress. Several states, including my home state of Illinois, simply lowered their standards to claim “better” test scores as success—essentially lying to children and parents. Now as NCLB's deadline for 100-percent proficiency approaches and performance goals grow steeper, we learn of egregious, systemic cheating in Atlanta and suspected cheating elsewhere.

Each of these instances is rooted in the pernicious notion that by resisting accountability, you can avoid it.

To deny the importance of regular, comprehensive measurement of student growth and academic progress because of cheating is to embrace that twisted ethos, sending exactly the wrong message to students.

Competing in a global economy is the ultimate high-stakes test for American students, and there are no shortcuts to success. Closing our eyes to the knowledge requirements of a 21st century economy will not make them go away.

At the same time, it is important to remember that measuring student growth is a means to an end, and not an end in itself. Poorly designed tests do not advance the goal of providing every American child a high-quality, well-rounded education. They also don't tell you very much about the effectiveness of teachers. That's why the Department of Education has put $350 million toward developing a new generation of assessments, and why we support evaluations based on multiple measures—including principal observation, peer review, classroom work, student and parent feedback, and other locally developed measures.

Yet poorly designed laws are also part of the problem. NCLB has created the wrong incentives for boosting student achievement, and we are working with Congress to fix the law by instead measuring individual student growth against college and career-ready standards.

But the fundamental challenge remains—to both strengthen the teaching profession and maintain real and meaningful accountability.

The State of Georgia’s investigation into the Atlanta cheating scandal found that the administration “…put unreasonable pressure on teachers and principals to achieve targets. A culture of fear, intimidation and retaliation spread throughout the district [and]…emphasized test results and public praise to the exclusion of integrity and ethics.”

This is no way to motivate teachers and students. Teachers often tell me that their primary incentive is seeing their students learn; but good, effective teachers deserve much more than that. They need real autonomy to apply their expertise in the classroom, a greater role in decision making that affects their schools and students, and rewards—including salaries commensurate with their contributions.

It is time for a thorough and thoughtful reevaluation of the incentives, economic and otherwise, required to support the current generation of teachers and attract the next one. It is also time to better align those incentives with student growth and learning. Accountability cannot be a one-way street where the only outcomes are penalties or sanctions. High-performing, effective teachers—especially those who put their talent, skill and experience to work in schools and districts most in need of improvement—should be appropriately recognized and rewarded.

This is a complicated issue, and changing long-held assumptions about the worth of teachers will not be easy. But the correct response to a difficult situation is to meet it head on with hard work, fresh thinking and open, honest and respectful debate, rather than a retreat from accountability.

Arne Duncan is the U.S. secretary of education. Prior to his appointment in 2009, Duncan served as CEO of the Chicago Public Schools, where he became the longest-serving education superintendent in an American big city.

Source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-leadership/despite-cheating-scandals-testing-and-teaching-are-not-at-odds/2011/07/19/gIQADUb3NI_story.html?wpisrc=emailtoafriend)