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oldandslow
07-16-2011, 08:42 AM
The way I see it is that itís kind of horrifying - like a car crash that we rubberneck - as we keep watch over the our deepening tailspin, and politicians in the United States play a game of chicken using sovereign debt in the role traditionally filled by fast cars. I think the issue is simple enough: the most that either side is able to offer, given its political commitments, is less than the least either side can afford to accept, and the occasional turns toward demagoguery on both sides havenít exactly helped. Itís still possible that some last minute compromise may be hammered out, but the odds against that are starting to lengthen, and if that doesnít happen, the financial end of the federal government will start seizing up in about three weeks. It should be an interesting spectacle.

I am not optimistic. A pox on both their houses.

HonestChieffan
07-16-2011, 09:18 AM
Well, its been building since the first time the debt limit was increased. It dint start a year ago and they are no worse than in the past adding to it, no regard for the future, spend to buy votes.

BucEyedPea
07-16-2011, 09:26 AM
Actually it need not be that bad. We should actually lower the debt ceiling. The multitrillion-dollar cuts over ten-year time frame will not balance the budget because it will depend on what a future congress does. If we passed legislation that reduced the debt ceiling over time, the economy would rebuild on more solid foundations.

Under this reduced debt ceiling, Congress will need to cut the pay of officials and employees and let many employees go. Even FDR cut the pay of employees 25% during his Depression.The govt should sell off many of its buildings:

It has tens of thousands of buildings that are no longer in use and tens of thousands of buildings that are significantly underused – about 75,000 buildings in total.

Reducing the debt ceiling also forces the govt to stop borrowing so much money from credit markets. We should even cut the regulatory burden even at just 5% in all areas. Defunding Obamacare is a must too.

All these things would free up resources for the private sector allowing it to get back on it's feet instead of putting off the inevitable.

Partly from this source: Mises.org Reprint (http://lewrockwell.com/thornton/thornton50.1.html)

Bewbies
07-16-2011, 12:08 PM
This debt debate actually has little to do with our actual debt. Sadly.

If Obama can get R's to cave and raise taxes he will win re-election. If he cannot and doesn't raise taxes we will have a new President in early 2013. That's what the real fight is, and that has nothing to do with what they're 'fighting' over.

It's great political theater, but does nothing to solve the largest problem we face in this nation.

healthpellets
07-16-2011, 12:22 PM
Does not everybody realize that a deal will get done around noon on August 2nd, just in time for a press conference where all parties involved stand in front of an adoring press corps with their arms around each other thanking everyone involved for giving a little so that a lot could be accomplished?

Then they'll sing some hymns, talk about how bipartisanship brought the country back from the brink of disaster and spin the concession their side gave as necessary to save the world.

Okie_Apparition
07-16-2011, 12:50 PM
If the unemployment rate is above 8.someodd#% Obama is toast. Unless the Republican gets caught having sex with a child or there is a tragedy in the Obama family.

Chiefshrink
07-16-2011, 01:17 PM
This debt debate actually has little to do with our actual debt. Sadly.

If Obama can get R's to cave and raise taxes he will win re-election. If he cannot and doesn't raise taxes we will have a new President in early 2013. That's what the real fight is, and that has nothing to do with what they're 'fighting' over.

It's great political theater, but does nothing to solve the largest problem we face in this nation.

Pretty much right on unless of course a 'real conservative' takes over in 2012 then the debt will truly be dealt with IMO. You are right about all this being political theatre.

Obama is picking this fight though, hoping for a repeat of '95' when the Repubs were "Alinskyized" for shutting down the govt. In his mind he desperately needs this fight hoping the Repubs stand firm so when the debt ceiling is not raised he will have a huge campaign talking point against the opposition that they caused the default and he did all he could to play ball and avoid a default thus the Repubs get "f"'d again.

Obama's been giving "the bird" to "We The People" for 3yrs now and even moreso since the 2010 elections. Telling us to "eat our peas" and "don't call his bluff". This POTUS is a "MAN CHILD".

Obama caved to We The People" only once since taking office and that was extending the Bush Tax Cuts in which he took it in the arse hard for that from his "commie base". He can't afford to give in to "We The People" a 2nd time or he will lose a significant part of his "commie base".

The WH is pulling out alllllllllllllllllllllllllll the stops everything from SS checks not going out to Moody's credit rating to "taking my ball and going home" posturing to Cantor because they(Marxist Dems) are panicked. Why are they panicked?

Because the WH knows the majority of "We The People" are on to his BS and do not approve of his dealing with the economy with his poll #'s at 37%. Obama can't run on his economic policies but what Obama can run on(in his mind that has worked in the past) is blaming the "default"(if it occurs) on the Repubs especially if some financial and social mayhem occur between now and the election.

If Obama continues not to play ball past Aug 2nd(still insisting on tax increases regardless-which IMO he desperately wants) and the stock market takes a severe dive and Moody down grades our credit and maybe there is also some mayhem in our streets; the Marxist Dems and Marxist Media can "Alinskyize" the Repubs hoping to manipulate the narrative away from O's failed financial policies (where it should be) on to the "default" caused by the Repubs because they were so-called 'uncooperative'. But it won't work this time. Why?

"Times are a changin" and this time it comes from "We The People" who see right through this guy and because of the extremely severe 'overreach and infringement' of our personal rights,freedoms and liberty by the Marxist Dems it is more than just conservatives that are very afraid. The Marxist Dems will attempt 'AGAIN' to "Alinskyize" the Repubs for the "default on the debt" (if it occurs) but will fail to resonate with the American people this time because it is Obama's disingenuousness,his condescension and his contempt for the Constitution and "We The People" that is very "transparent" to most Americans.

From a therapist perspective on O's narcissism he could go either way. I can see him finally give in(accepting the Repubs 'true cuts' with no tax increases-appearing bi-partisan) because he wants a chance to be re-elected and loves "being" President rather than "doing" President which is obvious but unfortunately his commie base will abandon him if this happens.

But if his narcissism is that "out of control" in which I think there is a high probability that it is, thus he will continue to play chicken in hopes for a "default situation". I can see him thinking this, "If I get the "default" hopefully the "Alinskyizing" gives me a chance to blame Repubs and get the attention off my purposeful failed economic policies and have a chance of winning re-election and furthuring the 'destruction or transformation of America". "But if I don't get the "default", "f it" I don't care about a 2nd term and I will let "We The People" who I despise greatly enjoy their economy EVEN MORE in order to speed up the "socialist utopia" through economic mayhem."

Like "O" said early on his presidency, "I would rather be a really good 1 term President than a 2 term mediocre President.

Stay Tuned!!

Quickie
07-16-2011, 02:12 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but Obama has a birthday bash extravaganza planned for August 3rd at the WH.

So much for the world coming to an end on August 2nd.

orange
07-16-2011, 03:34 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but Obama has a birthday bash extravaganza planned for August 3rd at the WH.

So much for the world coming to an end on August 2nd.

That's interesting. When did they move the White House to Chicago?

Saul Good
07-16-2011, 03:37 PM
Did the Democrats think we should raise the debt ceiling when Bush was POTUS? Let's go to the tale of the tape...


U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 109th Congress - 2nd Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary

Question: On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res.47 )
Vote Number: 54 Vote Date: March 16, 2006, 11:17 AM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Joint Resolution Passed
Vote Counts: YEAs 52
NAYs 48

Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---52
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chafee (R-RI)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Enzi (R-WY)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)


What's that you say? Not a single Democrat voted for it? Interesting...

orange
07-16-2011, 03:44 PM
What's that you guess? Not a single Republican voted against it? Interesting...

Chiefshrink
07-16-2011, 04:17 PM
That's interesting. When did they move the White House to Chicago?



What are you talking about 'big dog'??? Hell it never left Chicago since 2008:D

mikey23545
07-17-2011, 08:33 AM
What's that you guess? Not a single Republican voted against it? Interesting...

You completely miss the point and deflect. Interesting...

mikey23545
07-17-2011, 08:35 AM
That's interesting. When did they move the White House to Chicago?

That's interesting. The location seems to have nothing to do with the thrust of the post, yet you use that to obfuscate.

mikey23545
07-17-2011, 08:36 AM
I don't think Soros has been getting his money's worth lately.

Saul Good
07-17-2011, 09:31 AM
What's that you guess? Not a single Republican voted against it? Interesting...

fail

mlyonsd
07-18-2011, 08:34 AM
The way I see it is that itís kind of horrifying - like a car crash that we rubberneck - as we keep watch over the our deepening tailspin, and politicians in the United States play a game of chicken using sovereign debt in the role traditionally filled by fast cars. I think the issue is simple enough: the most that either side is able to offer, given its political commitments, is less than the least either side can afford to accept, and the occasional turns toward demagoguery on both sides havenít exactly helped. Itís still possible that some last minute compromise may be hammered out, but the odds against that are starting to lengthen, and if that doesnít happen, the financial end of the federal government will start seizing up in about three weeks. It should be an interesting spectacle.

I am not optimistic. A pox on both their houses.

This is what you get when your elected officials are career politicians. They can't make the right decision because it bites off the hand that feeds them.

BucEyedPea
07-18-2011, 09:29 AM
The House's Cut, Cap and Balance bill expands the debt limit, suggests cuts without actually committing to them, and increases our already bloated military accounts while seeking to get the money from the social welfare accounts (already and always empty). Specifically, the House Bill plans to happily pay for a growing military budget ad infinitum, predicting and praying that the already lopsided and obscene "Pentagon appropriations ...[will continue to] grow..." (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59223.html ) The establishment Republican from the 6th District of Virginia (Goodlatte) is proud of his "conservatism," as are so many of the Republicrats. The bill should be entitled "Lie, Lay Low, and Rock the Status Quo." Or maybe "Con, Crap and Bull." What's so hard to understand about the message Americans (especially the younger generations) have for Washington DC ó which is stop borrowing, stop spending, and just go away?


Karen Kwiatkowski ~ Austrian Economist (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/91503.html)