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Taco John
07-26-2011, 12:31 AM
Here's the significant portion of Boehner's speech:

You see, there is no stalemate in Congress. The House has passed a bill to raise the debt limit with bipartisan support. And this week, while the Senate is struggling to pass a bill filled with phony accounting and Washington gimmicks, we will pass another bill - one that was developed with the support of the bipartisan leadership of the U.S. Senate.

Obviously, I expect that bill can and will pass the Senate, and be sent to the President for his signature. If the President signs it, the 'crisis' atmosphere he has created will simply disappear. The debt limit will be raised. Spending will be cut by more than one trillion dollars, and a serious, bipartisan committee of the Congress will begin the hard but necessary work of dealing with the tough challenges our nation faces.

The rest of the speech is unimportant, but here is the info if you want it:

Full Text:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/speaker-boehners-debt-ceiling-speech_577405.html

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2pgV_LjmkE

Taco John
07-26-2011, 12:33 AM
Boehner is basically pointing to the McConnell/Reid plan if I'm not mistaken...

Taco John
07-26-2011, 12:38 AM
Separate proposals put forward by Boehner and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) on Monday each included versions of a Super Congress -- referred to on the Hill as a Super Committee -- that would write laws that could not be amended by the regular Congress, only voted up or down. In Boehner's version, the debt ceiling would be raised a second time if Congress approved the cuts decided on by the Super Congress.

"Perhaps most troubling is the proposed Congressional Commission. History has shown that such commissions, while well-intentioned, make it easier to raise taxes than to institute enduring budget reforms," reads a statement put out by the Cut, Cap and Balance Coalition, which is made up of a number of Tea Party groups.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/super-congress-debt_n_909018.html?1311626737

Taco John
07-26-2011, 12:44 AM
All hell is going to break loose with the Republican party if that's what happens, I can tell you that now. A commission? Are you kidding me? They're going to go back to the tea party with a commission? LOL! That's going to be hilarious!

|Zach|
07-26-2011, 12:48 AM
All hell is going to break loose with the Republican party if that's what happens, I can tell you that now. A commission? Are you kidding me? They're going to go back to the tea party with a commission? LOL! That's going to be hilarious!

Yea, those don't work. I think Reid has a commission lined up in his as well but I could be wrong on that I didn't look into it.

orange
07-26-2011, 12:51 AM
All hell is going to break loose with the Republican party if that's what happens, I can tell you that now. A commission? Are you kidding me? They're going to go back to the tea party with a commission? LOL! That's going to be hilarious!

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7770740&postcount=9

Taco John
07-26-2011, 01:19 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7770740&postcount=9

LOL!

Thanks for the article and link.

I can't believe that Boehner and McConnell would even try this. Didn't they learn anything from the whole "death commissions" debacle in the healthcare deal. How in the world could they think they could come back to the tea party with a debt commission to "seriously work on the issue." ROFL!

I can't hardly even believe my eyes and ears here. This sort of massive reach of government would spark fury from the tea party.

Taco John
07-26-2011, 01:32 AM
Ron Paul's campaign apparently knew that this is what was going to happen in the end... You've probably seen it before, but check it out in this new context - with the Iowa caucus on the horizon.

The significant portion happens at 0:37

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UUNIeOB0whI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The Paul campaign is already running the hell out of this commercial in Iowa.

|Zach|
07-26-2011, 01:33 AM
I don't understand how his name is pronounced "bay-nur" the way it is spelled.

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 07:27 AM
So I guess my initial reaction in the earlier thread was still spot on. Boehner and Mitch are traitors who are raising the debt ceiling. The commission was designed to by-pass input from the Tea Party. Snakes.

headsnap
07-26-2011, 08:14 AM
I don't understand how his name is pronounced "bay-nur" the way it is spelled.

my name is VERY close to the same spelling and it also is not pronounced like it is spelled...

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 08:18 AM
my name is VERY close to the same spelling and it also is not pronounced like it is spelled...

You must be German or Welsh?

I was thinking of the "oe" from German.

RaiderH8r
07-26-2011, 08:42 AM
LOL!

Thanks for the article and link.

I can't believe that Boehner and McConnell would even try this. Didn't they learn anything from the whole "death commissions" debacle in the healthcare deal. How in the world could they think they could come back to the tea party with a debt commission to "seriously work on the issue." ROFL!

I can't hardly even believe my eyes and ears here. This sort of massive reach of government would spark fury from the tea party.

I don't disagree but the tea party is pretty much always furious. It is their collective baseline.

headsnap
07-26-2011, 08:49 AM
You must be German or Welsh?

I was thinking of the "oe" from German.

actually mine is a French name with a German spelling...

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 08:56 AM
actually mine is a French name with a German spelling...

Awesome! Also it takes guts to admit that in this forum. :p

Radar Chief
07-26-2011, 09:03 AM
Basic Training bud of mine’s last name was Von Hoene, pronounced Von Hay Knee.
Exchange at mail call first week of basic.
Drill Sargent: Von Horn, Van Hone. You know what your name is get up here.
Bud runs up to get his mail.
DS: How do you pronounce that name, Private?
Bud: Von Hay Knee, Drill Sargent.
DS: Von Hay Knee, there’s no “a” in that name.
Bud: There’s no “r” either, Drill Sargent.
DS: WHAT! Get down and beat your face! (Translation, “You just earned a shit load of pushups, smart ass.”)

Donger
07-26-2011, 09:08 AM
Basic Training bud of mine’s last name was Von Hoene, pronounced Von Hay Knee.
Exchange at mail call first week of basic.
Drill Sargent: Von Horn, Van Hone. You know what your name is get up here.
Bud runs up to get his mail.
DS: How do you pronounce that name, Private?
Bud: Von Hay Knee, Drill Sargent.
DS: Von Hay Knee, there’s no “a” in that name.
Bud: There’s no “r” either, Drill Sargent.
DS: WHAT! Get down and beat your face! (Translation, “You just earned a shit load of pushups, smart ass.”)

I don't get it.

Otter
07-26-2011, 09:11 AM
I don't disagree but the tea party is pretty much always furious. It is their collective baseline.

Plenty of reason to be furious at the moment. When things are good and citizens are still pissed off and trying to force change down our governments throats I'll start to worry but right now it's a good thing.

Adding more bureaucracy (ie. committee) to the problem is about as asinine a solution as can be proposed given the problem.

More Tea Party in January. Lots more.

headsnap
07-26-2011, 09:11 AM
Awesome! Also it takes guts to admit that in this forum. :p

that it does. :)

Radar Chief
07-26-2011, 09:12 AM
I don't get it.

Von Horn. No "r".

mlyonsd
07-26-2011, 09:13 AM
I don't get it.

DS first pronounced it with an R even though there isn't one in it, then punished the guy for correcting him because he made it sound like there was an A in it even though there isn't one.

Donger
07-26-2011, 09:14 AM
Von Horn. No "r".

Oh.

mlyonsd
07-26-2011, 09:15 AM
Oh.I think RC's point is don't give a drill sergeant a reason to make you do pushups.

Radar Chief
07-26-2011, 09:17 AM
DS first pronounced it with an R even though there isn't one in it, then punished the guy for correcting him because he made it sound like there was an A in it even though there isn't one.

The way people stumble over Boehner’s name reminded me of it.

Radar Chief
07-26-2011, 09:18 AM
I think RC's point is don't give a drill sergeant a reason to make you do pushups.

LMAO That too. Probably funnier if you’ve been through Basic.

mlyonsd
07-26-2011, 09:20 AM
The way people stumble over Boehner’s name reminded me of it.

I think Zach might have had an ulterior motive with his pronunciation post.LMAO

go bowe
07-26-2011, 09:35 AM
I don't understand how his name is pronounced "bay-nur" the way it is spelled.

would you want to be called boner all your life?

the family probably changed the pronunciation long ago...

Donger
07-26-2011, 09:37 AM
I don't understand how his name is pronounced "bay-nur" the way it is spelled.

I take it you don't speak German then.

RaiderH8r
07-26-2011, 10:09 AM
Plenty of reason to be furious at the moment. When things are good and citizens are still pissed off and trying to force change down our governments throats I'll start to worry but right now it's a good thing.

Adding more bureaucracy (ie. committee) to the problem is about as asinine a solution as can be proposed given the problem.

More Tea Party in January. Lots more.

It's not another bureaucracy, it is a committee of currently serving Members of the House and Senate. It is no more a bureaucracy than any other committee of Congress with the purpose of coordinating agreements between chambers on these debt issues so that legislation may be fast tracked in each body as a yes/no vote.

Again, not that I am disagreeing but it is important to note what it is and how it will function to engage in an appropriate discussion on the topic.

Amnorix
07-26-2011, 10:21 AM
actually mine is a French name with a German spelling...

Aufgeben?

Bob Dole
07-26-2011, 10:21 AM
Don't they have to appoint a committee to create a new committee that would then approve a super-committee?

Otter
07-26-2011, 10:25 AM
It's not another bureaucracy, it is a committee of currently serving Members of the House and Senate. It is no more a bureaucracy than any other committee of Congress with the purpose of coordinating agreements between chambers on these debt issues so that legislation may be fast tracked in each body as a yes/no vote.

Again, not that I am disagreeing but it is important to note what it is and how it will function to engage in an appropriate discussion on the topic.

Really? Really!!!

We'll stop right there because it will go nowhere but downhill given our viewpoints.

Taco John
07-26-2011, 10:38 AM
It's not another bureaucracy...

You sure about that chief? (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bureaucracy)

Here's what I read:

It's not another bureaucracy, it is a (bureaucracy). It is no more a bureaucracy than any other (bureaucracy) with the purpose of (operating as another layer of bureaucracy).

RaiderH8r
07-26-2011, 11:11 AM
You sure about that chief? (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bureaucracy)

Here's what I read:

It's not another bureaucracy, it is a (bureaucracy). It is no more a bureaucracy than any other (bureaucracy) with the purpose of (operating as another layer of bureaucracy).

Yeah, pretty sure.

Definition of BUREAUCRACY
1a : a body of nonelective government officials b : an administrative policy-making group This commission is comprised of elected officials, not appointed by the administration.
2: government characterized by specialization of functions, adherence to fixed rules, and a hierarchy of authority government, by definition follows this. Adherence to rules? Like the Constitution or procedure?
3: a system of administration marked by officialism, red tape, and proliferation Ostensibly the purpose of such a commission would be to expedite legislation to avoid officialism, red tape, and proliferation.

I'll grant you 1 out of 3 because I know you're a purist and by purist I don't know what form of governance you are for if it all qualifies as a bureaucracy. At any rate you're free to discuss the use or abuse of such a commission.

Take the bill through regular order and you'll see a bureaucracy at work.

Taco John
07-26-2011, 12:44 PM
Yeah, pretty sure.

Definition of BUREAUCRACY
1a : a body of nonelective government officials b : an administrative policy-making group This commission is comprised of elected officials, not appointed by the administration.
2: government characterized by specialization of functions, adherence to fixed rules, and a hierarchy of authority government, by definition follows this. Adherence to rules? Like the Constitution or procedure?
3: a system of administration marked by officialism, red tape, and proliferation Ostensibly the purpose of such a commission would be to expedite legislation to avoid officialism, red tape, and proliferation.

I'll grant you 1 out of 3 because I know you're a purist and by purist I don't know what form of governance you are for if it all qualifies as a bureaucracy. At any rate you're free to discuss the use or abuse of such a commission.

Take the bill through regular order and you'll see a bureaucracy at work.

A purist? On the definition of bureaucracy? lol.

You should grant me 1 and 3 because they're dictionary definitions of bureaucracy.

patteeu
07-26-2011, 12:47 PM
Separate proposals put forward by Boehner and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) on Monday each included versions of a Super Congress -- referred to on the Hill as a Super Committee -- that would write laws that could not be amended by the regular Congress, only voted up or down. In Boehner's version, the debt ceiling would be raised a second time if Congress approved the cuts decided on by the Super Congress.

"Perhaps most troubling is the proposed Congressional Commission. History has shown that such commissions, while well-intentioned, make it easier to raise taxes than to institute enduring budget reforms," reads a statement put out by the Cut, Cap and Balance Coalition, which is made up of a number of Tea Party groups.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/super-congress-debt_n_909018.html?1311626737

I think this concern is unfounded.

The House of Representatives would have to vote in favor of any tax increase and that's not going to happen if any significant tax increase is included in the super committee's recommendation. And that assumes that one of the Republicans on the committee goes along with the tax increase proposal in the first place which seems like a long shot to me.

patteeu
07-26-2011, 12:49 PM
All hell is going to break loose with the Republican party if that's what happens, I can tell you that now. A commission? Are you kidding me? They're going to go back to the tea party with a commission? LOL! That's going to be hilarious!

You want them to go back to the tea party with a bunch of fake cuts instead?

Pitt Gorilla
07-26-2011, 12:52 PM
http://therynoshorn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Mike-Seaver-and-Boner-Growing-Pains.jpg

RaiderH8r
07-26-2011, 12:55 PM
You want them to go back to the tea party with a bunch of fake cuts instead?

We get $1T just by removing our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan...now if we could just remove our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

The fundamental problem is entitlements. Period. Even if we get $1T from troop withdrawal that is a 1 off savings but growth in entitlements just keeps going and going and going.

I'm fairly convinced that regardless of how this pans out that the US of A loses its AAA bond rating. I believe it to be almost a forgone conclusion at this point and likely long overdue. The Barackalypse continues.

vailpass
07-26-2011, 12:56 PM
We get $1T just by removing our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan...now if we could just remove our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

The fundamental problem is entitlements. Period. Even if we get $1T from troop withdrawal that is a 1 off savings but growth in entitlements just keeps going and going and going.

I'm fairly convinced that regardless of how this pans out that the US of A loses its AAA bond rating. I believe it to be almost a forgone conclusion at this point and likely long overdue. The Barackalypse continues.

I have a sad.

patteeu
07-26-2011, 12:56 PM
The problem with most commissions is that they are created in order to kick the can way down the road INSTEAD of dealing with the problem. This "commission" is just a different version of the "gang of six" with a specific mandate (i.e. find $X worth of cuts) and a short time frame.

I'd rather the Republicans just dictate what's going to happen and the democrats cave in and accept it, but since that's not going to happen, I don't have a problem with this approach. If the commission doesn't come up with something that can pass both the House and the Senate, we'll just be revisiting the current situation 6 or so months from now. That's far preferable to the alternative which is passing a package of fraudulent cuts so that the President can push this debate out past the next election and avoid doing anything constructive at all.

patteeu
07-26-2011, 12:59 PM
We get $1T just by removing our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan...now if we could just remove our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

The fundamental problem is entitlements. Period. Even if we get $1T from troop withdrawal that is a 1 off savings but growth in entitlements just keeps going and going and going.

I'm fairly convinced that regardless of how this pans out that the US of A loses its AAA bond rating. I believe it to be almost a forgone conclusion at this point and likely long overdue. The Barackalypse continues.

Absolutely. All this agonizing is over what amounts to an almost trivial first step toward fiscal responsibility. I hope people understand that this isn't a fix to the deficit problem. I hope Republicans, if successful here, don't try to pretend that they've accomplished their fiscal responsibility mission. Entitlement reform to defuse the time bomb and tax reform to encourage economic growth are essential next steps, IMO.

RaiderH8r
07-26-2011, 01:31 PM
Absolutely. All this agonizing is over what amounts to an almost trivial first step toward fiscal responsibility. I hope people understand that this isn't a fix to the deficit problem. I hope Republicans, if successful here, don't try to pretend that they've accomplished their fiscal responsibility mission. Entitlement reform to defuse the time bomb and tax reform to encourage economic growth are essential next steps, IMO.

Implicit in the act of raising the debt ceiling is the fact that we will be hitting it again.

orange
07-26-2011, 02:49 PM
I think this concern is unfounded.

The House of Representatives would have to vote in favor of any tax increase and that's not going to happen if any significant tax increase is included in the super committee's recommendation. And that assumes that one of the Republicans on the committee goes along with the tax increase proposal in the first place which seems like a long shot to me.

So what you're saying is that it's going to be a fake, do-nothing committee. Do you think Reid or Pelosi are going to put any blue-dogs on it? I tend to think not.

Isn't it time to bring down the curtain on the Kabuki theater?

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 02:50 PM
So what you're saying is that it's going to be a fake, do-nothing committee. Do you think Reid or Pelosi are going to put any blue-dogs on it? I tend to think not.

Kinda like our fake do-nothing govt these days? :harumph:

orange
07-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Absolutely. All this agonizing is over what amounts to an almost trivial first step toward fiscal responsibility. I hope people understand that this isn't a fix to the deficit problem. I hope Republicans, if successful here, don't try to pretend that they've accomplished their fiscal responsibility mission. Entitlement reform to defuse the time bomb and tax reform to encourage economic growth are essential next steps, IMO.

I don't see Boehner's plan going anywhere; I give it no better than 50/50 odds of getting out of the House. Boehner's best move right now is to grab the Reid life preserver, but I don't think he'll do that either, for reasons I'll get to in a moment.

I think this comes down to a last minute, clean vote on raising the Debt Ceiling - which will pass with bipartisan support and leave all the TPers out. Something they could have done six months ago.

Boehner's whole shtick has been motivated by his fear of the Tea Party. He's afraid he's going to lose the Speakership; I'll bet he's even afraid he's going to be primaried right out of a job. He's not ready for his future as a lobbyist just yet.

orange
07-26-2011, 03:01 PM
:harumph:

Aha! You're an orange mult! I knew it!

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 03:03 PM
Aha! You're an orange mult! I knew it!

No that would be if I used more than one of these: LMAO LMAO LMAO

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 03:04 PM
Boehner's whole shtick has been motivated by his fear of the Tea Party. He's afraid he's going to lose the Speakership; I'll bet he's even afraid he's going to be primaried right out of a job. He's not ready for his future as a lobbyist just yet.

Fine with me. He in the pocket of the banksters. Besides, as much as I liked his speech more than Obama's he looked stiff and unatural like he was reading a teleprompter.

orange
07-26-2011, 03:06 PM
No that would be if I used more than one of these: LMAO LMAO LMAO

Using ROFL :LOL: LMAO in various combinations - that's the true Mark of O.

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 03:07 PM
ROFL :LOL:

There you go again. LMAO :LOL: LMAO :LOL: :harumph:

orange
07-26-2011, 03:08 PM
Using ROFL :LOL: LMAO in various combinations - that's the true Mark of O.

There you go again. LMAO :LOL: LMAO :LOL: :harumph:

See! You ARE a mult!

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 03:09 PM
Using ROFL :LOL: LMAO in various combinations - that's the true Mark of O.

Yes, t'is. Perhaps we should marry? Then I will be Mrs. Orange. :p LMAO

orange
07-26-2011, 03:13 PM
Yes, t'is. Perhaps we should marry? Then I will be Mrs. Orange. :p LMAO

Your new avatar:

http://images.wikia.com/okami/images/2/21/Mrs_orange.jpg

BucEyedPea
07-26-2011, 03:16 PM
Your new avatar:

Looks more like Wilhelmenia Tell than a Mrs. orange!

patteeu
07-26-2011, 05:07 PM
So what you're saying is that it's going to be a fake, do-nothing committee. Do you think Reid or Pelosi are going to put any blue-dogs on it? I tend to think not.

Isn't it time to bring down the curtain on the Kabuki theater?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I have no idea whether Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi can come up with one or more democrats who are capable of working toward a serious proposal that can pass the House or whether or not they'd be inclined to place them on the committee, but I'm not going to rule it out.

Taco John
07-26-2011, 05:29 PM
I think this comes down to a last minute, clean vote on raising the Debt Ceiling - which will pass with bipartisan support and leave all the TPers out. Something they could have done six months ago.



I am beginning to think you're right.

dirk digler
07-26-2011, 05:48 PM
I don't see Boehner's plan going anywhere; I give it no better than 50/50 odds of getting out of the House. Boehner's best move right now is to grab the Reid life preserver, but I don't think he'll do that either, for reasons I'll get to in a moment.

I think this comes down to a last minute, clean vote on raising the Debt Ceiling - which will pass with bipartisan support and leave all the TPers out. Something they could have done six months ago.

Boehner's whole shtick has been motivated by his fear of the Tea Party. He's afraid he's going to lose the Speakership; I'll bet he's even afraid he's going to be primaried right out of a job. He's not ready for his future as a lobbyist just yet.

Yep excellent analysis Orange.

orange
07-26-2011, 09:58 PM
Posted at 07:21 PM ET, 07/26/2011
Budget office says Boehner plan falls short; leaders vow to re-work plan

House Speaker John Boehner’s debt-ceiling plan was dealt an unexpected blow late Tuesday when the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said that the proposal came up short of the Ohio Republican’s projected figure for spending cuts, one day before the House was set to take up the measure in a high-stakes vote.

The CBO said in a Tuesday night letter to Boehner that the speaker’s plan would achieve about $850 billion in deficit savings over the next decade, not the $1.2 trillion touted by House GOP leadership since the proposal was unveiled Monday night.

A Boehner spokesman said Tuesday night that congressional staffers were currently reviewing ways to rework the measure in order to achieve the amount of cuts originally pledged.

“We’re here to change Washington – no more smoke-and-mirrors, no more ‘phantom cuts,’” said Michael Steel, a spokesman for Boehner. “We promised that we will cut spending more than we increase the debt limit – with no tax hikes – and we will keep that promise. As we speak, Congressional staff are looking at options to re-write the legislation to meet our pledge. This is what can happen when you have an actual plan and submit it for independent review – which the Democrats who run Washington have refused to do.”

News of the CBO report came shortly before House Republicans were set to hold a closed-door conference meeting at 7 p.m. in a room in the Capitol basement.

Despite a veto threat by President Obama, Boehner’s plan would raise the country’s $14.3 trillion debt ceiling in a two-step process. The CBO report is based on the first stage of that process, which would allow the debt ceiling to be raised by roughly $1 trillion and avert a potentially catastrophic default by Aug. 2.

The report seriously endangers the chances that the debt-limit proposal will pass the Republican-controlled House on Wednesday, less than a week before the deadline by which Congress must pass a measure to raise the legal borrowing limit. The proposal has already been met with opposition from House conservatives who have argued that it does not slash deeply enough, and upping the stakes for Boehner is the fact that few House Democrats are expected to support the bill.

“I would much prefer ‘cut, cap and balance’ to this; I’d like to get a Constitutional amendment requiring us to balance the budget ... but it doesn’t look like we’re going to get it at this point,” said Rep. Steve Chabot (R-Ohio).

Chabot was referring to a plan that passed the House last week with support from many House conservatives. It would cut and cap government spending, as well as implement a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. Nonetheless, Chabot said was leaning toward supporting the Boehner two-step plan.

Asked whether Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) competing debt-limit proposal was a factor in his thinking about the Boehner plan, Chabot said that it was.

“Yeah, and that’s one of the reasons why I’m inclined to support it, because of that very thing,”he said, adding that he believed that if Wednesday’s vote failed, it would give Reid leverage.

“The alternative is Harry Reid’s, and I don’t think that goes nearly far enough.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/budget-office-says-boehner-plan-falls-short-leaders-vow-to-re-work-plan/2011/07/26/gIQAVPnYbI_blog.html

orange
07-26-2011, 09:59 PM
No vote Wednesday; maybe Thursday. :thumb:

Here, John, have one on me: :BLVD:

Amnorix
07-27-2011, 07:28 AM
I am beginning to think you're right.

Agreed.

Amnorix
07-27-2011, 07:30 AM
No vote Wednesday; maybe Thursday. :thumb:

Here, John, have one on me: :BLVD:

For all the talk about Obama, it's reasonably clear to me that Boehner is the one who is in a pickle, looking bad, and in danger of losing his job.

He can't handle the young turks in his caucus, and it's been a problem from the git-go.

BucEyedPea
07-27-2011, 07:47 AM
'Eh no that's backwards, the young turks are handling Boehner—as they should.

Amnorix
07-27-2011, 07:54 AM
'Eh no that's backwards, the young turks are handling Boehner—as the should.

I agree, they are. And you can say they should because, of course, you have an utterly impractical view of politics.

But let's just say that Sam Rayburn and Tip O'Neill are looking down at Boehner and :shake:

Otter
07-27-2011, 08:00 AM
For all the talk about Obama, it's reasonably clear to me that Boehner is the one who is in a pickle, looking bad, and in danger of losing his job.

He can't handle the young turks in his caucus, and it's been a problem from the git-go.

Their doing the job they were elected to do. Crazy huh?

You're on crack if you think they should be able to raise the debt once again at 'their' will and terms.

Amnorix
07-27-2011, 08:03 AM
We may very well end up raising the debt ceiling in a clean vote with a mix of bipartisan support in both houses of Congress, but with these young turks on the sideline.

Even members o the Republican party are getting exasperated:

"My experience with things that don't bend is that they break," said Rep. Steven LaTourette, a fellow Republican from Ohio, who represents the northeastern corner of the state.

LaTourette, who supports Boehner's debt plan, said he admires Jordan for standing up for what he believes in. But, he added, "I think it's harmful to the country and it's certainly harmful to the speaker's attempt to move legislation."

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20110727/US.Debt.Showdown.Jordan_s.Revolt/

Taco John
07-27-2011, 08:54 AM
The young turks may be on the sideline for this vote, but they will most definitely be on the playing field for 2012. Boehner et al are employees, not young turk handlers. They'll learn that very soon. They're going to try and shame the tea party into accepting defeat. I wish them luck in that effort. The tea party will have the last word because the economy is going to have the last word. People don't understand that there are consequences to the $25 trillion in US dollars that have been printed for US and global bank bailouts since 2008. The inflation clock is ticking - the fuse has been lit. If we haven't reached any form of serious reform when it finally hits, the global markets will melt down, and we'll permanently lose our economic standing in the world with a new reserve currency taking the place of the American dollar.

orange
07-28-2011, 04:15 PM
Debt ceiling vote delayed: John Boehner down to the wire with vote count

By JAKE SHERMAN & JOHN BRESNAHAN & JONATHAN ALLEN | 7/28/11 9:43 AM EDT Updated: 7/28/11 6:08 PM EDT
House Republican leaders have delayed a vote on Speaker John Boehner’s package to raise the nation’s debt ceiling, at the tail end of a long day of vote counting.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s (R-Va.) office says the vote will still be held Thursday evening, but the delay may be an indication the votes aren’t totally locked down for passage.

For hours, Boehner has been engaged in intense one-on-one meetings with Republicans in an effort to win today’s fight. But even as Boehner firmed up more “yes” votes, he encountered problems with one state delegation.

“South Carolina’s the problem,” said a lawmaker familiar with the count. “If they can break that, they can get within striking distance.”

In the closing hours before a critical debt-limit vote, the speaker was pulling Republicans off the floor and meeting with them in his ceremonial office on the second floor of the Capitol as he tries to make sure he has at least 217 votes to pass his deficit package.

First to go into Boehner’s office was Tennessee Rep. Chuck Fleischmann. Fleischmann was first grabbed off the floor by Barry Jackson, Boehner’s powerful chief of staff, and that was followed by two quick meetings with the speaker himself. Fleischmann came out in favor of the plan Thursday afternoon.

Florida Rep. Dennis Ross was next into Boehner’s office, and then California Rep. Gary Miller, who was described as “all over the place” by one GOP aide. California Rep. Tom McClintock got some face time with Boehner, as did Florida Rep. Bill Posey.

GOP aides said Boehner and the entire Republican leadership are pulling out all the stops for the debt vote. Appropriations Committee Chairman Hal Rogers of Kentucky is helping usher members into their meetings with Boehner. While Rogers can’t hand out bridge and road projects like his predecessors, he has a wide network of contacts after three decades in Congress, both in Washington and beyond. This network is being worked hard by Boehner and other top Republicans.

“We’re calling governors, donors, former senators, anyone we can to talk to these guys,” said a Republican staffer involved in the frantic arm-twisting effort.

The private discussions are also taking place among other leaders, who are reaching out to rank-and-file lawmakers on their own. Budget Chairman Paul Ryan of Wisconsin was seen chatting with freshman Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan as well.

Boehner is also reaching out to veterans for help.

After a meeting with Boehner, long-time appropriator Rep. Jack Kingston said he’s leaning yes.

“We need to stay in this fight,” Kingston told POLITICO.

Others who made it into the speaker’s suite — where Cantor also has his office — were Rep. Raul Labrador (R-Idaho) and Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.).

Earlier in the day, Boehner told lawmakers that Republicans don’t yet have the votes to pass the package but predicted his leadership team would get the legislation across the finish line this evening.

“We do not have the votes yet,” Boehner told a closed meeting of House Republicans Thursday morning in the Capitol, according to sources in the room. “But today is the day. We’re going to get it passed.”

Republicans have had a lot of convincing to do with their own party members, but they seem to have gained momentum.

Georgia Rep. Lynn Westmoreland, who met with Cantor Wednesday, told lawmakers the bill didn’t have as much savings as he would like, but he will vote for the bill.

Rep. Mike Kelly (R-Pa.), a bulky former Notre Dame football player, gave a rousing football-themed speech and said he would vote for the bill. He told colleagues they needed to do three things: Put on your helmet, put in your mouthpiece and tighten your chin strap. He gave out signs with the Notre Dame football saying, “Play like a champion today.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60125.html#ixzz1TROMJ9BJ

Donger
07-28-2011, 04:19 PM
Actually, that sounds like good news for the Republicans (shoring up more yes votes).

orange
07-28-2011, 04:26 PM
Reid has promised to bring up the Boehner plan and vote it down right away if it passes the House.

I hope he holds up just a little while - long enough to let the TP online and TV pundits - not to mention Presidential candidates, real and imagined - go nuclear.

:popcorn:

mlyonsd
07-28-2011, 04:31 PM
Fox just reported Boehner's office just indicated there will be a vote tonight.

They also reported a handful of conservative reps were headed to the congressional chapel to pray. When asked if they were going to vote yes they said "no".

FFS. What a circus.

Calcountry
07-28-2011, 04:32 PM
I don't understand how his name is pronounced "bay-nur" the way it is spelled.He puts the big one in anyone who gets near. BONER.

Taco John
07-28-2011, 05:31 PM
This is awesome. Reid was counting on Boehner's proposal to pass so he could compromise it with his proposal, and be done with this issue until after the election. Now he's got nowhere to go with his proposal because there is no framework for him to compromise, and he can't get enough votes for it in the Senate on its own.

Boehner has two choices at this point - three really...

1) Move his proposal towards the democrats, and swing enough democrats to bypass the tea party.
2) Stand firm with the Tea Party on the bill the House has already passed, and leave this in the Senate's lap.
3) Take a vote on a naked debt ceiling raise (and effectively forfeit his speakership in the process).

RaiderH8r
07-28-2011, 06:17 PM
This is awesome. Reid was counting on Boehner's proposal to pass so he could compromise it with his proposal, and be done with this issue until after the election. Now he's got nowhere to go with his proposal because there is no framework for him to compromise, and he can't get enough votes for it in the Senate on its own.

Boehner has two choices at this point - three really...

1) Move his proposal towards the democrats, and swing enough democrats to bypass the tea party.
2) Stand firm with the Tea Party on the bill the House has already passed, and leave this in the Senate's lap.
3) Take a vote on a naked debt ceiling raise (and effectively forfeit his speakership in the process).

2 please. Let Harry fix some shit for once. That makes the Ryan budget and a debt increase the House has passed while Harry and Obamessiah make empty speeches and rhetorical decrees devoid of a plan or an idea. The House has spoken. Let those f'ers stake their ground on their bill and go from there.

Taco John
07-28-2011, 06:23 PM
2 please. Let Harry fix some shit for once. That makes the Ryan budget and a debt increase the House has passed while Harry and Obamessiah make empty speeches and rhetorical decrees devoid of a plan or an idea. The House has spoken. Let those f'ers stake their ground on their bill and go from there.

That's what I say, but that's not what is going to happen. I think they're going to compromise and create a Boehner-Reid bill that will pass by Tuesday.

FD
07-28-2011, 06:36 PM
Rumors floating around DC are that Cantor is sabotaging tonight's vote to push Boehner out.

HonestChieffan
07-28-2011, 06:50 PM
Rumors floating around DC are that Cantor is sabotaging tonight's vote to push Boehner out.


Rumors also we may get a thundershower.

RaiderH8r
07-28-2011, 07:11 PM
That's what I say, but that's not what is going to happen. I think they're going to compromise and create a Boehner-Reid bill that will pass by Tuesday.

Boehner's been busting his ass and putting out product trying to move the needle and all O and Reid do is slap him and R's around. They should have passed Cut, Cap, and Balance and recessed pending Senate passage of a bill. Period. They keep negotiating with themselves and the D's just blast their marker every time.

Cannibal
07-28-2011, 08:07 PM
Rumors floating around DC are that Cantor is sabotaging tonight's vote to push Boehner out.

I would love it so much if that happened.

RINGLEADER
07-28-2011, 08:11 PM
I blame the release of Brian Waters...

orange
07-28-2011, 08:43 PM
Breaking: House whip says no debt vote tonight

from Politico. Details to follow.

petegz28
07-28-2011, 08:46 PM
Breaking: House whip says no debt vote tonight

from Politico. Details to follow.

What a shocker. These clowns all should be fired. From the President on down. Every single fucking one.

Cannibal
07-28-2011, 08:49 PM
What a shocker. These clowns all should be fired. From the President on down. Every single ****ing one.

I actually have to agree with you. Wow.

petegz28
07-28-2011, 08:54 PM
I actually have to agree with you. Wow.

Bush and the Repubs started this spending fiasco. Not to be outdone the Dems continued it and to one up the Repubs, didn't pass a budget for 2 years. The President wants to use this as a campaign pawn.

None of them are without blame. None of them should still be employed. Who knows WTF Boehner is doing? But the part I find the funniest is not Obama but Reid and Pelosi. These are the 2 that have been in charge of Congress for 4 years leading up to this year. These are the two that didn't pass a budget for 2 years. These are the 2 out preaching the end of the world and trying to blame the other side. It's all a fucking joke.

patteeu
07-29-2011, 07:55 AM
Bush and the Repubs started this spending fiasco.

No they didn't. They just picked up on it where democrats left off in 1994.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 08:02 AM
No they didn't. They just picked up on it where democrats left off in 1994.

I was speaking of recent history. Let's not pretend Bush and Co. didn't go on a spending spree.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 08:02 AM
Rumors floating around DC are that Cantor is sabotaging tonight's vote to push Boehner out.

I like it! Hope it's true! :thumb:

ROYC75
07-29-2011, 08:03 AM
Reid has promised to bring up the Boehner plan and vote it down right away if it passes the House.

I hope he holds up just a little while - long enough to let the TP online and TV pundits - not to mention Presidential candidates, real and imagined - go nuclear.

:popcorn:

Normal for a liberal to think that. Let's not work with the R's, we can blame them for not bringing it to us,Our way. The liberals in the House & Senate are acting like it's Burger King, Have It Your Way.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 08:05 AM
Normal for a liberal to think that. Let's not work with the R's, we can blame them for not bringing it to us,Our way. The liberals in the House & Senate are acting like it's Burger King, Have It Your Way.

On Ron Paul's latest You Tube he says the jockeying is all about who can be left to blame.

patteeu
07-29-2011, 08:11 AM
I was speaking of recent history. Let's not pretend Bush and Co. didn't go on a spending spree.

I'm not, but even as Bush and Co. spent, democrats of that era wanted to spend more. Republicans under Bush decided to play the democrats game because of the political advantages that democrats had always enjoyed as a result of their spending. It wasn't the right choice for the country, but let's not pretend that democrats haven't been making that same choice for a long, long time (and continue to do so even now). Saying that Bush started it is inaccurate and makes you sound like you don't know what's really been going on in our political system for the past few decades.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 08:14 AM
I'm not, but even as Bush and Co. spent, democrats of that era wanted to spend more. Republicans under Bush decided to play the democrats game because of the political advantages that democrats had always enjoyed as a result of their spending. It wasn't the right choice for the country, but let's not pretend that democrats haven't been making that same choice for a long, long time (and continue to do so even now). Saying that Bush started it is inaccurate and makes you sound like you don't know what's really been going on in our political system for the past few decades.

Where have I let the Dems off the hook? Bush and Co. DID start this decade's spree of spending. Let's not pretend otherwise. Would the Dems have spent more? Probably. But they weren't the one's in charge for 6 years.

patteeu
07-29-2011, 08:19 AM
Where have I let the Dems off the hook? Bush and Co. DID start this decade's spree of spending. Let's not pretend otherwise. Would the Dems have spent more? Probably. But they weren't the one's in charge for 6 years.

You left the dems off the hook when you said that Bush and Co. started it. They didn't. Now that you add "this decade's" to it, it's at least accurate although hardly worth noting. A better way to say it would be that Bush and Co. were almost as bad as democrats when it came to spending. If you don't want to nit pick over relatively small distinctions, you can leave out the word "almost".

RaiderH8r
07-29-2011, 08:25 AM
You left the dems off the hook when you said that Bush and Co. started it. They didn't. Now that you add "this decade's" to it, it's at least accurate although hardly worth noting. A better way to say it would be that Bush and Co. were almost as bad as democrats when it came to spending. If you don't want to nit pick over relatively small distinctions, you can leave out the word "almost".

We can zero out all discretionary spending and we still come up short. The "problem" is entitlements. Entitlements account for the lion's share of the spending and good luck touching those. The entitlement charlie foxtrot lies squarely with those in Congress who react as if any proposal to reform those programs constitutes a personal sexual assault on old people, women, children, puppy dogs, rainbows, and baby dreams otherwise known as "Democrats". Entitlement reformers literally want to drown babies and puppies in piles of gold and silver while laughing maniacally and suggesting the poor eat their own babies.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 08:27 AM
You left the dems off the hook when you said that Bush and Co. started it. They didn't. Now that you add "this decade's" to it, it's at least accurate although hardly worth noting. A better way to say it would be that Bush and Co. were almost as bad as democrats when it came to spending. If you don't want to nit pick over relatively small distinctions, you can leave out the word "almost".

:rolleyes: Whatever

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 08:36 AM
Where have I let the Dems off the hook?
You didn't.

Bush and Co. DID start this decade's spree of spending. Let's not pretend otherwise. Would the Dems have spent more? Probably. But they weren't the one's in charge for 6 years.

He just has a hair across his ass because he thinks there's a difference between the two parties.

patteeu
07-29-2011, 08:55 AM
We can zero out all discretionary spending and we still come up short. The "problem" is entitlements. Entitlements account for the lion's share of the spending and good luck touching those. The entitlement charlie foxtrot lies squarely with those in Congress who react as if any proposal to reform those programs constitutes a personal sexual assault on old people, women, children, puppy dogs, rainbows, and baby dreams otherwise known as "Democrats". Entitlement reformers literally want to drown babies and puppies in piles of gold and silver while laughing maniacally and suggesting the poor eat their own babies.

I couldn't agree more.

Donger
07-29-2011, 10:10 AM
Sounds like Boehner added a BBA to his bill.

mlyonsd
07-29-2011, 10:16 AM
Sounds like Boehner added a BBA to his bill.Can't hurt since Harry already said the bill without it would fail.

orange
07-29-2011, 10:22 AM
Can't hurt since Harry already said the bill without it would fail.

... so why not eliminate any pretense whatsoever that it's bipartisan. :thumb:

mlyonsd
07-29-2011, 10:23 AM
... so why not eliminate any pretense whatsoever that it's bipartisan. :thumb:Hey I said it couldn't hurt.....not that it was smart.

dirk digler
07-29-2011, 10:30 AM
I was watching Laura Ingraham last night interview Rep Steve King when she was hosting O'Reilly's show. He kept going on and on about BBA and how they are going to force this issue and even she thought he was stupid.

mlyonsd
07-29-2011, 10:33 AM
... so why not eliminate any pretense whatsoever that it's bipartisan. :thumb:And yes, everything the democrats have proposed is sooooooooo bipartisan.

KC Dan
07-29-2011, 10:36 AM
I was watching Laura Ingraham last night interview Rep Steve King when she was hosting O'Reilly's show. He kept going on and on about BBA and how they are going to force this issue and even she thought he was stupid.i agree that the reality is stupid when looking at the Congressional make-up but having a BBA is not stupid. Every person and business and yes, even gov'ts should have a BBA. The dems just want unfettered spending so they will always say no to any restriction on spending like a cap or BBA.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 10:39 AM
I was watching Laura Ingraham last night interview Rep Steve King when she was hosting O'Reilly's show. He kept going on and on about BBA and how they are going to force this issue and even she thought he was stupid.

I think it stupid too. It's making the current budget hostage to it instead of debating it on its own merits.

dirk digler
07-29-2011, 10:45 AM
i agree that the reality is stupid when looking at the Congressional make-up but having a BBA is not stupid. Every person and business and yes, even gov'ts should have a BBA. The dems just want unfettered spending so they will always say no to any restriction on spending like a cap or BBA.

I am not saying the BBA is stupid just holding up Boehner's bill or any deal that raises the debt limit over it is stupid.

dirk digler
07-29-2011, 10:46 AM
I think it stupid too. It's making the current budget hostage to it instead of debating it on its own merits.

agreed

KC Dan
07-29-2011, 10:58 AM
The funny thing is that there is a very good chance that a BBA would in fact get the 3/4 states approval that it would need to be enacted. It just can't get through the Senate because Sir Harry refuses to let it be brought to a vote.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 11:08 AM
The funny thing is that there is a very good chance that a BBA would in fact get the 3/4 states approval that it would need to be enacted. It just can't get through the Senate because Sir Harry refuses to let it be brought to a vote.

Are you willing to endure massive tax increases to balance the budget? I think we have to be weaned off with methadone, at first, anyway. A BBA won't solve anything and ramming this through in a few weeks makes it far more likely it is poorly written, not designed well and overlooks certain details. Some amendments have not improved our Constitution. I think if the Founders felt it was necessary they would have thought of it. I like the Constitution the way it is and I think this Congress has some new people that mean business....even if they're Hobbits.

orange
07-29-2011, 11:11 AM
The funny thing is that there is a very good chance that a BBA would in fact get the 3/4 states approval that it would need to be enacted. It just can't get through the Senate because Sir Harry refuses to let it be brought to a vote.

Note to Rip Dan Winkle:

Senate kills Cut, Cap and Balance
Published: 11:40 AM 07/22/2011 | Updated: 12:12 AM 07/23/2011
By Amanda Carey
Amanda Carey is a reporter for The Daily Caller. She previously worked for Reason magazine and Robert Novak.

The Democratic-controlled Senate voted to kill the Cut, Cap, Balance Act (CCB) Friday morning. The measure failed by a 51–46 vote along party lines.

orange
07-29-2011, 11:19 AM
Reid moves forward with plan, Boehner tweaks his

Published: 12:46 PM 07/29/2011 | Updated: 1:05 PM 07/29/2011
By Amanda Carey - The Daily Caller

The status of Speaker of the House John Boehner’s debt limit plan was up in the air after he failed to get enough votes for passage Thursday night. After a long night of whip counts and negotiations, the night ended with Republicans politically weaker, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid bolstered enough to move with his own proposal.

On Friday morning, that’s exactly what the Majority Leader did, announcing that he is going to start moving his proposal through the upper chamber. Reid described his bill as “the last train,” but also said he has asked Minority Leader Mitch McConnell to back his plan and bring his own suggestions to the table.

“It’s really hard to comprehend the confusion that they’ve had over there,” said Reid at a press conference Friday morning, referring to the House. “It’s really time that they legislate. As we know, they’re having trouble doing that.”

According to one Senate source, Reid is expected to file cloture on his plan sometime Friday, which will start the 30-hour clock and set up a vote for late Saturday.

But Boehner isn’t giving up on his plan. On Friday, he added a provision that makes a second debt limit increase conditional on passage and ratification of a balanced budget amendment.

At the press conference with Reid, Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, slammed the progress in the House and the “extreme” wing of the GOP caucus.

“To win the last hold-outs on the Tea Party, he had to agree to sign a historic change. It’s not enough that they’re willing to hold the economy hostage,” he said, adding that the balanced budget requirement is the “most outrageous suggestion I’ve heard.”



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/29/reid-moves-forward-with-plan-boehner-tweaks-his/#ixzz1TW2Dw3YU

patteeu
07-29-2011, 11:28 AM
Note to Rip Dan Winkle:

Senate kills Cut, Cap and Balance
Published: 11:40 AM 07/22/2011 | Updated: 12:12 AM 07/23/2011
By Amanda Carey
Amanda Carey is a reporter for The Daily Caller. She previously worked for Reason magazine and Robert Novak.

The Democratic-controlled Senate voted to kill the Cut, Cap, Balance Act (CCB) Friday morning. The measure failed by a 51–46 vote along party lines.

There was no vote on cut cap and balance in the senate. Instead they voted to table it. I think you probably already know this.

dirk digler
07-29-2011, 11:31 AM
Are you willing to endure massive tax increases to balance the budget? I think we have to be weaned off with methadone, at first, anyway. A BBA won't solve anything and ramming this through in a few weeks makes it far more likely it is poorly written, not designed well and overlooks certain details. Some amendments have not improved our Constitution. I think if the Founders felt it was necessary they would have thought of it. I like the Constitution the way it is and I think this Congress has some new people that mean business....even if they're Hobbits.

Holy shit I am shocked. I figured you would be a huge supporter of BBA.

orange
07-29-2011, 11:33 AM
There was no vote on cut cap and balance in the senate. Instead they voted to table it. I think you probably already know this.

As I know you know "tabling" is "killing." Just like veteran political reporter Amanda Carey said.

KC Dan
07-29-2011, 11:37 AM
Note to Rip Dan Winkle:
Senate kills Cut, Cap and Balance
Published: 11:40 AM 07/22/2011 | Updated: 12:12 AM 07/23/2011
By Amanda Carey
Amanda Carey is a reporter for The Daily Caller. She previously worked for Reason magazine and Robert Novak.

The Democratic-controlled Senate voted to kill the Cut, Cap, Balance Act (CCB) Friday morning. The measure failed by a 51–46 vote along party lines.
Pretty funny :thumb:
It didn't get voted on that vote was needed for cloture so they could vote on it and it didn't get the 60 votes needed to proceed to the floor

KC Dan
07-29-2011, 11:38 AM
Are you willing to endure massive tax increases to balance the budget? I think we have to be weaned off with methadone, at first, anyway. A BBA won't solve anything and ramming this through in a few weeks makes it far more likely it is poorly written, not designed well and overlooks certain details. Some amendments have not improved our Constitution. I think if the Founders felt it was necessary they would have thought of it. I like the Constitution the way it is and I think this Congress has some new people that mean business....even if they're Hobbits.You're right, it is much better to just keep spending $1.3-1.5 Trillion more than we take in. Good plan

orange
07-29-2011, 11:40 AM
Pretty funny :thumb:
It didn't get voted on that vote was needed for cloture so they could vote on it and it didn't get the 60 votes needed to proceed to the floor

No, that was not a vote on cloture; it was a vote to TABLE IT. Or, as the SENATE says:

table, motion to - A Senator may move to table any pending question. The motion is not debatable, and agreement to the motion is equivalent to defeating the question tabled. The motion is used to dispose quickly of questions the Senate does not wish to consider further.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/table_motion_to.htm

KC Dan
07-29-2011, 11:42 AM
No, that was not a vote on cloture; it was a vote to TABLE IT. Or, as the SENATE says:
table, motion to - A Senator may move to table any pending question. The motion is not debatable, and agreement to the motion is equivalent to defeating the question tabled. The motion is used to dispose quickly of questions the Senate does not wish to consider further.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/table_motion_to.htm
You're right and I was wrong. So, it was in fact Sir Harry's way of killing it then? You do agree on that as he knew all his dems would vote to prevent a vote on the BBA? It may be equivalent but that is just words to say ""we don't have the courage to vote on it for political reasons"

orange
07-29-2011, 11:45 AM
They DID vote on it. They voted NO. Decisively. Unanimously. And finally.

FD
07-29-2011, 11:46 AM
You can vote to table immediately, there is something like a 2 day waiting period to vote on the bill itself according to the Senate rules. The outcomes are equivalent, though.

KC Dan
07-29-2011, 11:48 AM
You can vote to table immediately, there is something like a 2 day waiting period to vote on the bill itself according to the Senate rules. The outcomes are equivalent, though.understand but it is chickenshit

patteeu
07-29-2011, 12:02 PM
As I know you know "tabling" is "killing." Just like veteran political reporter Amanda Carey said.

But it's not letting the issue itself be brought to a vote which is what KC Dan was talking about.

orange
07-29-2011, 12:06 PM
But it's not letting the issue itself be brought to a vote which is what KC Dan was talking about.

Yes it is. It is exactly that. It just speeds up the predictable and resounding NO vote in order to move on to other things.

p.s. KC Dan has already admitted he mistakenly thought they had voted on cloture; if you need to make a defense for somebody that even he doesn't claim, Warren Jeffs could use you in Texas.

patteeu
07-29-2011, 12:38 PM
Yes it is. It is exactly that. It just speeds up the predictable and resounding NO vote in order to move on to other things.

p.s. KC Dan has already admitted he mistakenly thought they had voted on cloture; if you need to make a defense for somebody that even he doesn't claim, Warren Jeffs could use you in Texas.

KC Dan still understands that the Senate didn't hold a vote on CCB, which was the point he made originally (even though he admits he was wrong about the method of avoiding it).

KC Dan
07-29-2011, 12:42 PM
KC Dan still understands that the Senate didn't hold a vote on CCB, which was the point he made originally (even though he admits he was wrong about the method of avoiding it).As Forrest so well stated - "I'm not a smart man.....". But, it doesn't matter in any event because the dems asI have already stated, want unfettered spending and leaders like Sir Harry will never, ever let the actual legislation be debated and voted on.

mlyonsd
07-29-2011, 12:49 PM
As Forrest so well stated - "I'm not a smart man.....". But, it doesn't matter in any event because the dems asI have already stated, want unfettered spending and leaders like Sir Harry will never, ever let the actual legislation be debated and voted on.Because Harry knows a BBA really is the right thing to do if you're an American citizen, but the wrong thing to do if you're a career politician that spends his entire life sucking the blood out of the former.

orange
07-29-2011, 04:26 PM
Today 4:20 PM House Passes Boehner Debt Ceiling Plan
Republicans have 218 votes in favor -- only 216 were needed. The final vote is 218-210.

http://www.sciencemusings.com/blog/uploaded_images/Aye-aye-759013.jpg

Taco John
07-29-2011, 04:55 PM
As Forrest so well stated - "I'm not a smart man.....". But, it doesn't matter in any event because the dems asI have already stated, want unfettered spending and leaders like Sir Harry will never, ever let the actual legislation be debated and voted on.

That's ok. The house has presented two bills which would provide for a debt increase while giving a shot of confidence to the financial markets. If the Democrats want to play politics with this, that's up to them. They haven't presented a single bill. They now have a framework to work with in the Senate. The American people will get a chance to see what they do and evaluate come 2012.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:01 PM
House bills passed 2
Senate bills passed 0

orange
07-29-2011, 05:04 PM
House bills passed 2
Senate bills passed 0

House bills defeated: 3 soon to be 4

(including Boehner 1.0 and 2.0; isn't that right, TJ?)

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:06 PM
House bills defeated: 3 soon to be 4

(including Boehner 1.0 and 2.0; isn't that right, TJ?)

So what's your point? That the Senate won't be happy until they get everything they want?

You should be proud of yourself, Orange. It's your party that has now shot down or will shoot down 4 bills (according to you).

It's your party preventing anything from getting done.

I think we see who the problem is here.

orange
07-29-2011, 05:07 PM
That's ok. The house has presented two bills which would provide for a debt increase while giving a shot of confidence to the financial markets. If the Democrats want to play politics with this, that's up to them. They haven't presented a single bill. They now have a framework to work with in the Senate. The American people will get a chance to see what they do and evaluate come 2012.

Yes, we will.

p.s. trying to spin this week as anything but an embarassment for the Republicans is a task of patteeuesque proportions. I'm not sure you're slippery enough.

orange
07-29-2011, 05:08 PM
So what's your point? That the Senate won't be happy until they get everything they want?

You should be proud of yourself, Orange. It's your party that has now shot down or will shoot down 4 bills (according to you).

It's your party preventing anything from getting done.

I think we see who the problem is here.

Try sounding it out, maybe you can think it through: Boehner 1.0 and 2.0 were shot down by TEApublicans.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:09 PM
Yes, we will.

p.s. trying to spin this week as anything but an embarassment for the Republicans is a task of patteeuesque proportions. I'm not sure you're slippery enough.

Dude, are you fucking serious? You and your Leftist buddies are in full spin mode. 0 plans and full of nothing but No. LMAO.

You have fun explaining to everyone why the Senate keeps shooting down bills. Have fun explaining that a "balanced budget", something most people live with daily, is unacceptable to you Democrats. That will fly over well, I'm sure.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:10 PM
Try sounding it out, maybe you can think it through: Boehner 1.0 and 2.0 were shot down by TEApublicans.

Try sounding it out....Reid bills even voted on...0, ZERO, NADA, Less than 1, as many as the House bills - as many as the house bills...


keep spinning maestro

Taco John
07-29-2011, 05:10 PM
Yes, we will.

p.s. trying to spin this week as anything but an embarassment for the Republicans is a task of patteeuesque proportions. I'm not sure you're slippery enough.

Fine by me. This has been the most satisfying week of politics for me in years. Personally, I couldn't be more proud of the backbone we're seeing right now. I think Boehner made the right move to move towards fixing America, and am proud of how this has shaken out. McCain, et al. tried to throw us under the bus, but in the end Boehner made the right decision.

vailpass
07-29-2011, 05:12 PM
Yes, we will.

p.s. trying to spin this week as anything but an embarassment for the Republicans is a task of patteeuesque proportions. I'm not sure you're slippery enough.

You have gone over the edge. Will you be committing suicide or just leaving the country when obama is run out of town on a rail in 2012?

orange
07-29-2011, 05:12 PM
Have fun explaining that a "balanced budget", something most people live with daily, is unacceptable to you Democrats.

I guess you don't know anyone with a home loan, college loan, car loan, or credit cards.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:12 PM
Question to Harry Reid: Why won't you even allow debate on the House bill??

Follow up question: Why hasn't the senate even voted on Reid's alleged plan?

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:14 PM
I guess you don't know anyone with a home loan, college loan, car loan, or credit cards.

I have a home loan, car loan and credit cards. And my budget includes the ability to pay for such. Unlike the Dem budget. Oh wait, we don't have a Dem budget.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:15 PM
Obama hits all time approal low of 40% approval.....yea, orange, this is going swimmingly for you and your party

orange
07-29-2011, 05:21 PM
... Reid's alleged plan ...

GOP Sen. Thune: Tweaked Reid Plan Probably Won’t Be Filibustered, Could Pass House | Appearing this afternoon on Fox News, Sen. John Thune (R-SC) said that if Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) brings his debt ceiling plan up, it will get a vote in the Senate. In other words, enough Republicans would support Reid to prevent a filibuster. Thune also suggested that, if the Reid plan was “strengthened” it could collect 216 votes in the House, enough for passage. Watch it:

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TE0FWcKT8e8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

People - not Rush or Matt, mind you - KNOW there's a Reid plan. And they think it can pass.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:23 PM
<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TE0FWcKT8e8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

People - not Rush or Matt, mind you - KNOW there's a Reid plan. And they think it can pass.

Then why didn't he bring it up for a vote??? I'll tell you, because he knew it wouldn't fucking pass!

Keep it up, Orange. This is very entertaining. I am sorry I am going to have to go to the gym soon and miss out on your reaching.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:24 PM
All the crying and whining about compromise from Obama and Reid is enlightening. I say we use the same compromise they used on health care.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:26 PM
Oh, and orange, it seems the only difference between Bohner 1.0 and Reids phantom plan was Reid included the war funfs in his "plan", Boehner did not but the were essentially the same thing. But Reid would have none of it.

When are you going to learn? Well, you have and choose to be obtuse. The Dems must have their name on this. It is too big for them not to claim some sort of victory with re-election on the horizon.

In the meantime we have heard every excuse as to why we aren't hearing more plans form the Dems and Obama.

orange
07-29-2011, 05:27 PM
Then why didn't he bring it up for a vote???

He hasn't brought it up YET. The Senate is slow. It was built that way. But it's coming.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:29 PM
He hasn't brought it up YET. The Senate is slow. It was built that way. But it's coming.

Ah, yet? The alleged deadline is Monday yet he just hasn't gotten around to it, is that it? LMAO

When exactly was he planning on doing so???


Do you actually believe the shit you are typing?

So tell us, orange, what about the Boehner plan does Reid not like so much that he won't even allow debate on it?

orange
07-29-2011, 05:30 PM
Oh, and orange, it seems the only difference between Bohner 1.0 and Reids phantom plan was Reid included the war funfs in his "plan", Boehner did not but the were essentially the same thing. But Reid would have none of it.


No, you're wrong. Completely wrong. I'll let the conservatives here tell you the difference - it's already been posted here a dozen times and criticized. I don't know why you let yourself get so worked up over the most ridiculous sound bites you can find without even looking into the basics.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:32 PM
No, you're wrong. Completely wrong. I'll let the conservatives here tell you the difference - it's already been posted here a dozen times and criticized. I don't know why you let yourself get so worked up over the most ridiculous sound bites you can find without even looking into the basics.

Maybe so. I'd still like to know why Reid hasn't voted on his "plan" yet?

What's he waiting for?

orange
07-29-2011, 05:34 PM
Maybe so. I'd still like to know why Reid hasn't voted on his "plan" yet?

What's he waiting for?

Here. Educate yourself: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/democrats-narrow-targets-_n_913725.html

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:34 PM
This is just a guess on my part, orange will correct me I am sure, but I have this hunch that Reid has not voted on his plan yet because he knows he doesn't have the votes for it to pass the Democraticly controlled senate.

I also have a hunch that he is not even going to allow debate on the Boehner bill because he doesn't want him and his party having to actually stand up and argue why they want to keep spending and not balance the budget with an election next year.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:35 PM
Here. Educate yourself: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/democrats-narrow-targets-_n_913725.html

Hoo-rah! It's been voted on?

orange
07-29-2011, 05:36 PM
Hoo-rah! It's been voted on?

Read it and find out.

p.s. I'm not going to go over and chew your food for you, either.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:39 PM
Read it and find out.

p.s. I'm not going to go over and chew your food for you, either.

I read your petty article. Why hasn't the Reid plan been voted on? WTF is he dragging his feet?

Keep on reaching, brotha....it's fun to watch

orange
07-29-2011, 05:42 PM
I read your petty article. Why hasn't the Reid plan been voted on? WTF is he dragging his feet?

Keep on reaching, brotha....it's fun to watch

So you read it, and even though it spells out the whole timeline, you still don't get it. I guess I was wrong... you are a moron after all.

petegz28
07-29-2011, 05:44 PM
So you read it, and even though it spells out the whole timeline, you still don't get it. I guess I was wrong... you are a moron after all.

Yeah, it spells out that he is full of shit. If he has to wait for the day of the deadline to have a vote he is a shittier leader than I thought.

He has had well over a week now....but, but, but.....LMAO

You're just mad because I see through his smoke and mirrors bullshit

petegz28
07-29-2011, 06:35 PM
Now reid wants to change the rules when it comes to voting on his bill? Lmao he doesnt have the votes

orange
07-29-2011, 06:44 PM
Today 6:37 PM Senate Kills The House Debt Bill

After all the drama of House Speaker John Boehner trying to get his get his budget-cutting, Constitution-amending debt bill though the House, the Senate voted to kill it after a short, snippy debate between the party leaders.

The Senate voted 59 to 41 to table the House bill, but not before Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell sparred a bit for the cameras.

McConnell interrupted Reid to make him an offer: Republicans would be willing to vote on Reid's plan immediately, and to sweeten the offer, he said the House was prepared to follow suit Saturday at 1 p.m.

Reid didn't bite. Likely still trying to line up 60 votes to break a filibuster, he asked if McConnell would agree to "the same type of simple majority vote they had" in the House

But McConnell was not about to give up the edge, and mocked the suggestion.

"Let me say this is almost an out of body experience," he said.

"It is obvious to the world, there is now another filibuster," Reid shot back, before calling the vote to table the plan.

Six conservatives joined the Democrats in opposing the House bill from the right: Sens. David Vitter, Orrin Hatch, Mike Lee, Jim DeMint and Lindsey Graham.

Reid then filed for cloture on his plan, with a vote set for 1 a.m. Sunday.

http://cheapandsleazy.net/images/dead_jim.jpg