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View Full Version : Religion Why Religions worry me...


Dave Lane
07-28-2011, 07:19 AM
Maybe you all will think this is awesome or should be exactly what we need to be doing. This really worries me...

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Jenson71
07-28-2011, 07:33 AM
The lady seems to be filled more with the hate for Islam than the love of Christ.

The movie, by the way, is Jesus Camp. You'll love it, Dave.

Dave Lane
07-28-2011, 07:39 AM
The odd thing is she is very much copying them.

Saulbadguy
07-28-2011, 07:47 AM
Jesus Camp is hilarious.

JonesCrusher
07-28-2011, 08:55 AM
Is it the religion or the indoctrination that bothers you? My problem is with the latter. I'd like to add global warming alarmists and raiders fans to list that worries me, rational adults with no prior brainwashing would think all 3 are wackjob concepts.

Otter
07-28-2011, 09:44 AM
If that women didn't have religion do you think she would be a well adjusted, functioning adult by your standards? Religion attracts a lot of nuts for sure but if it weren't for religion I'm pretty sure they would find another means for a manifestation of their zealous behavior.

Whack jobs should bother you, not religion.

fan4ever
07-28-2011, 09:52 AM
If that women didn't have religion do you think she would be a well adjusted, functioning adult by your standards? Religion attracts a lot of nuts for sure but if it weren't for religion I'm pretty sure they would find another means for a manifestation of their zealous behavior.

Whack jobs should bother you, not religion.

Bingo; well put...although likely falling on deaf ears. Hating religion has become a religion.

Brock
07-28-2011, 09:57 AM
They'd become Amway people.

BucEyedPea
07-28-2011, 09:58 AM
Hating religion has become a religion.

Yes, they are flip sides of the same coin. Look at how many atheists killed in the name of the state under communism.

The common denominator is intolerance through the ages.

Radar Chief
07-28-2011, 10:24 AM
Bingo; well put...although likely falling on deaf ears. Hating religion has become a religion.

Ironic isn’t it? Switching one support system for another and thinking that lends credibility to point and sneer at the “unenlightened”.

Radar Chief
07-28-2011, 10:27 AM
They'd become Amway people.

Do those people ever actually sell anything? They all seem a lot less interested in selling something than getting you to sell for them. Weird setup, not sure how they make any money.

blaise
07-28-2011, 10:49 AM
I've moved around the country- like 5 or 6 different states. When we move around we generally look at a bunch of different churches. We'll go to, I would say, and average of 7 different churches before we decide on one.
Of all the places we've been, all the churches we've gone to I've never once heard a sermon about the evils or Islam, about abortion (they'll say they're pro-life without saying those words, but it's never been the entire subject of a sermon), about what politicians I should vote for. The only time I've ever heard a sermon about homosexuality was at a church in Houston. And it wasn't, "Gays are the devil." It was in response to other churches at the time performing gay marriage. The pastor basically got up and said, "We've been teaching that a marriage is between a man and woman, and that's what we'll continue to believe." There was no hate in it. The only political issue I've heard discussed was at the Church of the Resurrection in Overland Park where the pastor said he believed that Obama's health care bill was a Christian thing.
Of all the churches I've been to, I would say around 45-50, all the sermons I've heard, I would say 90% of them are basically this: Develop a sense of community and help your fellow man. Volunteer, donate. Give your time to prisoners, the elderly and children. Befriend people at the church and elsewhere, because they may need your help someday, and you may need theirs.
I'm not saying kooks don't exist, I'm just saying they're a tiny minority.

Huffmeister
07-28-2011, 11:10 AM
Ironic isn’t it? Switching one support system for another and thinking that lends credibility to point and sneer at the “unenlightened”.

Exactly. It boils down to "I can't stand people not thinking the way that I think, so I am going to attack/mock them at every opportunity". Christians are capable of it, Muslims are capable of it, and yes, even the 'enlightened' atheists are capable of it.

Count Zarth
07-28-2011, 11:26 AM
Religions worry me because they produce people like Jenson...

ROYC75
07-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Gee Dave, nobody on earth is perfect. For every radical church,radical church people, there are atheist. There are also churches and church people that are not radical. Just because some radicals started the KKK and claimed to be Jesus following Christians does not mean ALL Christians are labeled KKK followers.

Are all Muslims radical?

Same ole Dave, same ole bashing on religion.

Brock
07-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Religions worry me because they produce people like Jenson...

Religion produced you. That's 1000 times more scary than Jenson.

BigCatDaddy
07-28-2011, 11:28 AM
This thread kind of took a Frankie on Dave.

KC Dan
07-28-2011, 12:38 PM
Who brought Bil Maher in here....

vailpass
07-28-2011, 12:43 PM
Religion produced you. That's 1000 times more scary than Jenson.

+1

Chief Henry
07-28-2011, 01:21 PM
Gee Dave, nobody on earth is perfect. For every radical church,radical church people, there are atheist. There are also churches and church people that are not radical. Just because some radicals started the KKK and claimed to be Jesus following Christians does not mean ALL Christians are labeled KKK followers.

Are all Muslims radical?

Same ole Dave, same ole bashing on religion.




Spot on Roy.....:thumb:

Jenson71
07-28-2011, 01:49 PM
Religions worry me because they produce people like Jenson...

You should see the alternative. "Without the Church, I'd scarcely be human." Evelyn Waugh

Cannibal
07-28-2011, 03:41 PM
I'd like to see that fat bitch forced into the octagon with Cain Velasquez.

KCWolfman
07-28-2011, 04:07 PM
If that women didn't have religion do you think she would be a well adjusted, functioning adult by your standards? Religion attracts a lot of nuts for sure but if it weren't for religion I'm pretty sure they would find another means for a manifestation of their zealous behavior.

Whack jobs should bother you, not religion.

Exactly. I have also heard music and video games being blamed for violence, murder, and suicide. They are no more the problem than religion is.

Count Zarth
07-28-2011, 06:26 PM
Religion produced you. That's 1000 times more scary than Jenson.

My point exactly.

KCWolfman
07-28-2011, 09:29 PM
Well, I heard all serial killers have extensive collections of porn, so obviously porn produces serial killers, right?

BucEyedPea
07-28-2011, 09:35 PM
Well, I heard all serial killers have extensive collections of porn, so obviously porn produces serial killers, right?

Actually, I've read this is true for many of them.

KCWolfman
07-29-2011, 12:44 AM
Actually, I've read this is true for many of them.

So we need to eliminate porn to make the world safe, right?

Obviously like religions produce hate and death, porn produces serial killers.

RubberSponge
07-29-2011, 03:21 AM
Well, I heard all serial killers have extensive collections of porn, so obviously porn produces serial killers, right?

Hmm, I've never heard that all have extensive porn collections.

I have heard though that many serial killers are deeply religious, or spiritual. Jim Jones, Gary Ridgeway, Dennis Rader, John List and John Floyd Thomas Jr. are perfect examples. As well as John Allen Muhammad. How about Charles Manson? It could very well be argued that he is extremely religious at the time of his crimes and even today. I pretty sure he still views himself as the son of god and the devil all-in-one.

ClevelandBronco
07-29-2011, 07:43 AM
I'll be praying that you can learn to cope with your fear, Dave.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 07:53 AM
Hmm, I've never heard that all have extensive porn collections.

I have heard though that many serial killers are deeply religious, or spiritual. Jim Jones, Gary Ridgeway, Dennis Rader, John List and John Floyd Thomas Jr. are perfect examples. As well as John Allen Muhammad. How about Charles Manson? It could very well be argued that he is extremely religious at the time of his crimes and even today. I pretty sure he still views himself as the son of god and the devil all-in-one.

Lots of Marxist literature was found in Jim Jones' possession too. Some Christian. I also read he was a CIA experiment on groups.

ROYC75
07-29-2011, 07:55 AM
Why is it the atheist always fears religion ? :hmmm:

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 08:06 AM
Why is it the atheist always fears religion ? :hmmm:

We should be saying—"Why Dave Lane worries me..."

ROYC75
07-29-2011, 08:09 AM
We should be saying—"Why Dave Lane worries me..."

There you go, acting devilish on us.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 08:10 AM
There you go, acting devilish on us.

...with pleasure :evil:

Reaper16
07-29-2011, 08:35 AM
Jesus Camp is one of my favorite horror movies.

Ace Gunner
07-29-2011, 09:20 AM
Jim Jones was christian. Enough said.

mlyonsd
07-29-2011, 09:22 AM
Jim Jones was christian. Enough said.Not hardly.

Jim Jones pretended to be a christian would be the correct way to say it.

Chief Henry
07-29-2011, 09:27 AM
We should be saying—"Why Dave Lane worries me..."

o:-)

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 09:31 AM
Jim Jones was christian. Enough said.
No Christian would claim to be Christ and Lenin at the same time. Or even just Christ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus

From the Suicide Transcripts:

"And that's not so unfamiliar to us either, if we -- even if we were Judeo-Christian -- if we weren't Communists.The world-- the kingdom suffereth violence and the violent shall take it by force. If we can't live in peace, then let's die in peace. "

Primary source information----> Jones denies being Christian or even religious.


"Stop this hysterics. This is not the way for people who are Socialists or Communists to die. No way for us to die. We must die with some dignity."
- Jonestown transcripts


http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/Tapes/DeathTape/Q042.html

blaise
07-29-2011, 09:34 AM
Jim Jones was christian. Enough said.

Stalin, too.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 09:34 AM
Stalin, too.

LMAO He was kicked out of the seminary for his Marxist ideas. Did he remain one?

Otter
07-29-2011, 09:48 AM
Stalin, too.

Stalin was an atheist, do your own research.

Here's a couple other people who were atheists:

Alfred Kinsey
Napoleon Bonaparte
Than Shwe
Kim Jong Il
Jeffrey Dahmer
Jim Jones
Benito Mussolini
Mao Zedong

I borrowed the list from here: http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/

I'm not highly religious or atheist. I'm one of the few people who haven't been privileged enough to be presented with enough evidence to make a concrete conclusion one way or the other.

I simply despise some of the deceptive and misconstrued cause and effect conclusions being made here.

BucEyedPea
07-29-2011, 09:55 AM
You need to add Abraham Lincoln....it's just not widely known or published...because he used religious rhetoric politically as he governed a religious people.

blaise
07-29-2011, 10:02 AM
Stalin was an atheist, do your own research.

Here's a couple other people who were atheists:

Alfred Kinsey
Napoleon Bonaparte
Than Shwe
Kim Jong Il
Jeffrey Dahmer
Jim Jones
Benito Mussolini
Mao Zedong

I borrowed the list from here: http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/

I'm not highly religious or atheist. I'm one of the few people who haven't been privileged enough to be presented with enough evidence to make a concrete conclusion one way or the other.

I simply despise some of the deceptive and misconstrued cause and effect conclusions being made here.


Dude.

RNR
07-29-2011, 01:30 PM
Hmm, I've never heard that all have extensive porn collections.

I have heard though that many serial killers are deeply religious, or spiritual. Jim Jones, Gary Ridgeway, Dennis Rader, John List and John Floyd Thomas Jr. are perfect examples. As well as John Allen Muhammad. How about Charles Manson? It could very well be argued that he is extremely religious at the time of his crimes and even today. I pretty sure he still views himself as the son of god and the devil all-in-one.
I have read that most serial killers are white men, so maybe we should get rid of white men~

Chief Faithful
07-29-2011, 01:36 PM
Why is it the atheist always fears religion ? :hmmm:

Because it burns.

go bowe
07-29-2011, 02:16 PM
fears?

more like derision, don't you think?

RubberSponge
07-29-2011, 03:01 PM
I have read that most serial killers are white men, so maybe we should get rid of white men~

That is purely a myth. I did list atleast 2 black men IIRC. Same about sexual deviancy. Not all serial killers are sexual deviants. More times that not, most serial killers appear perfectly normal and are able to hide in society very well. Atleast that is according to the FBI.

blaise
07-29-2011, 03:04 PM
That is purely a myth. I did list atleast 2 black men IIRC. Same about sexual deviancy. Not all serial killers are sexual deviants. More times that not, most serial killers appear perfectly normal and are able to hide in society very well. Atleast that is according to the FBI.

It's a myth that most are white?

Calcountry
07-29-2011, 03:09 PM
That lady needs to remove the plank from her own eye when it comes to "fat and lazy".

RNR
07-30-2011, 05:09 AM
It's a myth that most are white?

No it is not, the highest % on record are white men. I was also just taking the silly arguement to the the most extreme end~

teedubya
07-30-2011, 11:06 AM
So we need to eliminate porn to make the world safe, right?


You bite your tongue, KCWolfman. I will watch some porn right now, to rebuke you.

KCWolfman
07-30-2011, 04:10 PM
You bite your tongue, KCWolfman. I will watch some porn right now, to rebuke you.

The liberal agenda is clear, I am just taking the next progressive step to make our entire planet safe for all.

If I remove religion from the planet, there will be peace everywhere.
If I remove porn, there will be no violent murders.
If I remove heavy metal, there will be no teen suicides.
If I remove currency, we will all have the desire to share equally.

LOCOChief
08-02-2011, 07:14 AM
I posted this reply in the 911 inside job thread as Dave Lane decided to attack religion there but thought in his own thread on religion would be more appropraite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane
It's like me with the idiocy that is religion. It's seem so obvious you can't believe anyone could be duped by it. .

This is for you Dave let the insults and rejection begin.
I met a psychologist with the American Cancer society and Hospice who has witnessed 1,000+ deaths or “transitions” for clinical purposes. According to her the final days and hours of the transition for people whom think as you do are the most “terrifying events she has ever witnessed” and went on to say where there was once doubt it exists no longer.
__________________

Amnorix
08-02-2011, 07:19 AM
The liberal agenda is clear, I am just taking the next progressive step to make our entire planet safe for all.

If I remove religion from the planet, there will be peace everywhere.
If I remove porn, there will be no violent murders.
If I remove heavy metal, there will be no teen suicides.
If I remove currency, we will all have the desire to share equally.

:spock:

Liberals tend to believe in free speech and individual rights. Except for the extreme women's rights nuts, there's no porn elimination plank in the typical liberal approach to society, not would there be anything about eliminating specific brands of music.

And plenty of liberals go to church, though I certainly agree that most atheists probably line up on the liberal side of things since, you know, they tend to be more intelligent and dedicated to logic. :p

blaise
08-02-2011, 07:33 AM
:spock:

Liberals tend to believe in free speech and individual rights. Except for the extreme women's rights nuts, there's no porn elimination plank in the typical liberal approach to society, not would there be anything about eliminating specific brands of music.

And plenty of liberals go to church, though I certainly agree that most atheists probably line up on the liberal side of things since, you know, they tend to be more intelligent and dedicated to logic. :p

I think he's saying only the top one is part of a liberal agenda, and the others are being used as examples of its flaw.

LOCOChief
08-02-2011, 07:40 AM
:spock:

And plenty of liberals go to church, though I certainly agree that most atheists probably line up on the liberal side of things since, you know, they tend to be more intelligent and dedicated to logic. :p

They also have a tendency to be arrogant pricks that lack guts, principles and loyalty to anything or anyone other than themselves.

listopencil
08-02-2011, 08:14 AM
Meh. Religion simply is. If you're an evil fuck then you might use it to validate the evil that you perpetrate, but you're still an evil fuck and it's nobody's fault but yours. I've met some truly wonderful people in my life who have lived (as much as they possibly can) by the teachings of Christ and struggled to maintain their faith in this modern world.

They struggle to be true to the spirit of the lessons they have learned, they struggle to spread that message and shape the world around them into a benevolent and loving environment, and they struggle to defend their lifestyle against those who oppress them.

I don't judge all Christians (or followers of any faith) by the actions of individuals. I judge individuals by their own actions.

LOCOChief
08-02-2011, 09:37 AM
I don't judge all Christians (or followers of any faith) by the actions of individuals. I judge individuals by their own actions.

o:-)

FishingRod
08-02-2011, 11:12 AM
I posted this reply in the 911 inside job thread as Dave Lane decided to attack religion there but thought in his own thread on religion would be more appropraite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane
It's like me with the idiocy that is religion. It's seem so obvious you can't believe anyone could be duped by it. .

This is for you Dave let the insults and rejection begin.
I met a psychologist with the American Cancer society and Hospice who has witnessed 1,000+ deaths or “transitions” for clinical purposes. According to her the final days and hours of the transition for people whom think as you do are the most “terrifying events she has ever witnessed” and went on to say where there was once doubt it exists no longer.
__________________

So what you are saying is that people that had a strong belief they and their loved ones in death went to a wonderful beautiful place were not as scared as people that believed death was the end and they turned into worm food? Humm sounds like a pretty big stretch to me. Any thoughts of those that believed but feel that they had not lived a life worthy of salvation? Eternity in the pit of hell, that might cause one a brief moment of angst, wouldn’t ya think? I’ve seen all three.

Lzen
08-02-2011, 11:42 AM
I posted this reply in the 911 inside job thread as Dave Lane decided to attack religion there but thought in his own thread on religion would be more appropraite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane
It's like me with the idiocy that is religion. It's seem so obvious you can't believe anyone could be duped by it. .

This is for you Dave let the insults and rejection begin.
I met a psychologist with the American Cancer society and Hospice who has witnessed 1,000+ deaths or “transitions” for clinical purposes. According to her the final days and hours of the transition for people whom think as you do are the most “terrifying events she has ever witnessed” and went on to say where there was once doubt it exists no longer.
__________________

Did she publish her findings? I would be very interested in reading more on this.

Lzen
08-02-2011, 11:47 AM
Hey LOCO, was her name Deborah Jo Corker by any chance? If so, I found it.

http://web.coehs.siu.edu/public/her/grad/new/siu/hed/hed597/corker/Corker%20dissertation%202010.pdf

Ace Gunner
08-02-2011, 12:38 PM
Hey LOCO, was her name Deborah Jo Corker by any chance? If so, I found it.

http://web.coehs.siu.edu/public/her/grad/new/siu/hed/hed597/corker/Corker%20dissertation%202010.pdf

thx for posting. From that article;

"
Only a century ago, death was common at every age and dying usually
quickly followed the onset of disease or injury. Now, public health measures and
health care prevent or cure many previously fatal illnesses or injuries, allowing
most Americans to live into old age. Medications and treatments now often allow
prolonged survival with serious chronic conditions…Rather than a brief, welldefined period, the “end of life” today refers to a prolonged, uncertain period of
difficulty because many Americans today live their last years with an advanced,
chronic illness (The Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ), 2004,
Chap 1, p.1)"


___________________________________________________________


Could it be said large drug corporations and health related institutes such as hospitals are primarily to blame for our failure to create affordable healthcare? How can an industry so large, wealthy and powerful ignore the massive impact they would have on societies worldwide?

LOCOChief
08-02-2011, 02:25 PM
So what you are saying is that people that had a strong belief they and their loved ones in death went to a wonderful beautiful place were not as scared as people that believed death was the end and they turned into worm food?

No that's not what I was saying and that wasn't what she was saying either.

Humm sounds like a pretty big stretch to me.

I'm sure it does but you haven't a clue to what I was talking about

Any thoughts of those that believed but feel that they had not lived a life worthy of salvation? Eternity in the pit of hell, that might cause one a brief moment of angst, wouldn’t ya think? I’ve seen all three.

Well, if you are confronted with the possibility of death, then you are virtually confronted with the unknown and that is scary I would imagine most people regardless of their beliefs. Just because you have a belief in salvation of any sort doesn't necessarily mean you're ready to go. Think about a person at an age that still has a lot they want to do and people they want to do it with. So you try to find out all you can about it to eliminate the "unknown" I asked questions of a compassionate educated woman that sought the answers to the same questions in over 1,000 situations. She isn't the first or only one to do so by any means. I know several hospice volunteers. Maybe a difference with her (by her admission) was that as a psychologist that initially approached it from scientific vantage point. She told me that even people that had no belief of any kind or were unsure found some sort of peace in the end. She also told of a small number of people (atheists) that experience something different. She said it's "terrifying" and she wasn't comfortable talking about that to any great extent.

I didn't argue any of your points with her because they were her experiences, not mine. I find comfort in her words of experience and you found something different, weird huh?

LOCOChief
08-02-2011, 02:31 PM
Did she publish her findings? I would be very interested in reading more on this.


I don't think that she has but I don't know. She counsels people that are preparing for death. I do know that she is a Christian. When I asked her if she was she was like, "well yeah".

I find it interesting as well.