PDA

View Full Version : Economics Some taxes will be going up - just squarely on the middle class


suzzer99
08-03-2011, 06:48 PM
http://brucekrasting.blogspot.com/2011/08/biggest-middle-class-tax-increase-in.html

The reason that the current stimulus was directed at FICA taxes is that this was the most progressive way to provide some relief. Those same individuals/families (average income of $37,000) will be hurt the hardest when the rates go back up. For a family with two average incomes the tax increase comes to $1,500 a year.

Awesome. Glad the tea party was ok with quietly caving on this, but NEVER on raising taxes 3% on income over $250k. Remember folks, these are true believers looking out for your best interests - certainly not snake-oil salesman funded by the Koch Brothers who simply want to continue the greatest wealth transfer in US history.

ChiTown
08-03-2011, 06:50 PM
http://brucekrasting.blogspot.com/2011/08/biggest-middle-class-tax-increase-in.html



Awesome. Glad the tea party was ok with quietly caving on this, but NEVER on raising taxes 3% on income over $250k. Remember folks, these are true believers looking out for your best interests - certainly not snake-oil salesman funded by the Koch Brothers who simply want to continue the greatest wealth transfer in US history.

LMAO

suzzer99
08-03-2011, 08:22 PM
Figured you guys would ignore this. Back to the dittohead circle jerk.

Bewbies
08-03-2011, 08:28 PM
http://brucekrasting.blogspot.com/2011/08/biggest-middle-class-tax-increase-in.html



Awesome. Glad the tea party was ok with quietly caving on this, but NEVER on raising taxes 3% on income over $250k. Remember folks, these are true believers looking out for your best interests - certainly not snake-oil salesman funded by the Koch Brothers who simply want to continue the greatest wealth transfer in US history.

Who is it that wants to raise taxes? LMAO

fan4ever
08-03-2011, 08:31 PM
http://brucekrasting.blogspot.com/2011/08/biggest-middle-class-tax-increase-in.html



Awesome. Glad the tea party was ok with quietly caving on this, but NEVER on raising taxes 3% on income over $250k. Remember folks, these are true believers looking out for your best interests - certainly not snake-oil salesman funded by the Koch Brothers who simply want to continue the greatest wealth transfer in US history.

I didn't know the tea party wrote the legislation...

...most of the tea party is the middle class by the way...

Bewbies
08-03-2011, 08:36 PM
I didn't know the tea party wrote the legislation...

...most of the tea party is the middle class by the way...

Nope. The democrats can scream about raising 'revenue' from the rafters, but as soon as people realize it's not just someone else that will have to pay it's the tea party folks fault. All couple dozen of them in the House.

BucEyedPea
08-03-2011, 08:38 PM
Whenever we hear tax the rich, it usually means the middle-class. I can't wait until the whole show defaults.

mlyonsd
08-03-2011, 08:48 PM
You mean the tax that pays for a SS fund that's what, 40 Trillion insolvent is going to have it's cut expire? For shame.

It was a stupid idea in the first place btw. (Kotter should be proud of me)

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-03-2011, 08:54 PM
And the circle jerk begins....

HonestChieffan
08-03-2011, 08:54 PM
You mean the tax that pays for a SS fund that's what, 40 Trillion insolvent is going to have it's cut expire? For shame.

It was a stupid idea in the first place btw. (Kotter should be proud of me)

Amen. Fact is to save SS for the next generations, the tax needs to go up. Plus, reducing the payroll tax has scant benefit for the unemployed who we really need to focus on.

ChiTown
08-03-2011, 08:56 PM
And the circle jerk begins....

Your avatar is priceless given your comment:LOL:

BigChiefFan
08-03-2011, 08:58 PM
We don't need to raise any GD taxes. The Federal Government needs to curb it's spending. It's no wonder we are in the shape we are in, when citizens justify getting bent over. Grow a sack and stand up to this criminals.

HonestChieffan
08-03-2011, 09:03 PM
We don't need to raise any GD taxes. The Federal Government needs to curb it's spending. It's no wonder we are in the shape we are in, when citizens justify getting bent over. Grow a sack and stand up to this criminals.

Only way to curb the SS payouts is to cut SS.....This is one tax that needs to be reinstated or SS will be broke way earlier than expected.

Taco John
08-03-2011, 09:05 PM
http://brucekrasting.blogspot.com/2011/08/biggest-middle-class-tax-increase-in.html



Awesome. Glad the tea party was ok with quietly caving on this, but NEVER on raising taxes 3% on income over $250k. Remember folks, these are true believers looking out for your best interests - certainly not snake-oil salesman funded by the Koch Brothers who simply want to continue the greatest wealth transfer in US history.

Actually, the tea party and most Republicans voted against the bill in both branches of congress. This thing got passed only because the Democrats voted it through.

suzzer99
08-03-2011, 09:06 PM
Well when you guys have to pay an extra $1500 next year, at least you can give a silent thanks to the tea party for holding the line on taxes on income over $250k (for which they could have gotten $4T in cuts in return). Lord knows the wealthy have only shattered the record for % of wealth held by the top 2% of the population over the past decade, while everyone else has suffered. They could use another break.

Cognitive dissonance ftw.

Taco John
08-03-2011, 09:07 PM
Well when you guys have to pay an extra $1500 next year, at least you can give a silent thanks to the tea party for holding the line on taxes over $250k. Lord knows the wealthy have only shattered the record for % of wealth held by the top 2% of the population over the past decade, while everyone else has suffered. They could use another break.

The tea party and the republicans voted against this bill. It only passed because the democrats and a handful of moderate republicans put it through.

BigChiefFan
08-03-2011, 09:07 PM
Only way to curb the SS payouts is to cut SS.....This is one tax that needs to be reinstated or SS will be broke way earlier than expected.
I'm good with disolving the whole thing and letting people keep their money, but don't give me this horseshit that the working class needs to pay more in taxes. PIF. We need to stand up to this. They have AMPLE tax revenue, if they choose to squander it, that's their own damn fault. PIF.

ChiTown
08-03-2011, 09:12 PM
Well when you guys have to pay an extra $1500 next year, at least you can give a silent thanks to the tea party for holding the line on taxes on income over $250k (for which they could have gotten $4T in cuts in return). Lord knows the wealthy have only shattered the record for % of wealth held by the top 2% of the population over the past decade, while everyone else has suffered. They could use another break.

Cognitive dissonance ftw.

I have it on good authority that Matt Damon is more than willing to help out. So, you got that going for you.

Chiefshrink
08-03-2011, 09:14 PM
Well when you guys have to pay an extra $1500 next year, at least you can give a silent thanks to the tea party for holding the line on taxes on income over $250k (for which they could have gotten $4T in cuts in return). Lord knows the wealthy have only shattered the record for % of wealth held by the top 2% of the population over the past decade, while everyone else has suffered. They could use another break.

Cognitive dissonance ftw.

You are such the "useful idiot" that has bitten "hook, line and sinker" into the lies of the Marxist Dems class warfare campaign on the rich:rolleyes:

HonestChieffan
08-03-2011, 09:18 PM
I'm good with disolving the whole thing and letting people keep their money, but don't give me this horseshit that the working class needs to pay more in taxes. PIF. We need to stand up to this. They have AMPLE tax revenue, if they choose to squander it, that's their own damn fault. PIF.

This is related to the FICA Tax, nothing else, just FICA

trndobrd
08-03-2011, 09:55 PM
http://brucekrasting.blogspot.com/2011/08/biggest-middle-class-tax-increase-in.html



Awesome. Glad the tea party was ok with quietly caving on this, but NEVER on raising taxes 3% on income over $250k. Remember folks, these are true believers looking out for your best interests - certainly not snake-oil salesman funded by the Koch Brothers who simply want to continue the greatest wealth transfer in US history.


Did you read the entire article or just cut and paste the cherrypicked quote?

This was part of the original stimulus plan. Other than this author being 'convinced' that a continuation of payroll tax holiday would, for some reason, be included in the debt limit deal, there is no indication that it was ever under consideration as part of the deal.

Was this part of Obama's budget plan that was shot down 97-0 by the Senate? I don't know, but I do know that liberals in the House and Senate are the ones that killed the idea.

As for the Bush tax cuts for the rich, I believe you will find that repeal of those cuts would result in am income tax increase of 5% for those in the 10% bracket, those paying 25% would see their Federal income tax go up to 28% and those paying 28% now, would pay 31%. In other words, the folks in the lowest bracket got the largest break.

BTW, the largest middle class tax increase in history would be the original implementation of FICA, wouldn't it.


From the original article:

"Biggest Middle Class Tax Increase in History Will Come in Five Months
There is one aspect of the final debt deal from DC that took me by surprise. I was convinced the 2% reduction in payroll taxes would be extended through 2012. On July 12th I wrote about this and got it completely wrong. Not only did I think there would be a one year extension of the existing holiday; I forecast that the subsidy would actually be increased. I was steered in the wrong direction by the Boss himself. On July 11th Obama stated:


I want to be crystal clear. Nobody has talked about increasing taxes now. Nobody has talked about increasing taxes next year. We’re talking 2013 and the out years.

In the same press conference he added:


(cuts in FICA payroll taxes) would be a component of this overall package.

I don’t think the President said these words without having some sort of understanding with Speaker Boehner. Two weeks ago an economic stimulus was part of the plan. Today there is nothing. I think I understand what may have happened. When push came to shove the FICA holiday got shelved. That had to happen to get a deal done. Why? Because we are so broke we can’t afford the stimulus. "

CrazyPhuD
08-04-2011, 03:00 AM
Well when you guys have to pay an extra $1500 next year, at least you can give a silent thanks to the tea party for holding the line on taxes on income over $250k (for which they could have gotten $4T in cuts in return). Lord knows the wealthy have only shattered the record for % of wealth held by the top 2% of the population over the past decade, while everyone else has suffered. They could use another break.

Cognitive dissonance ftw.

So here's a better question, do you ever think that we should ever had cut the social security paycheck deduction in the first place? Given how much a trainwreck the current system there should never have been a cut in the first place. If they wanted to cut some other tax fine and then you might have an argument over a tax raise. But restoring the FICA paycheck deduction is no tax raise. In fact cutting it might very well have been one of the most morally bankrupt things we've done in the history of our nation.

Consider why social security existed in the first place. It exists because people are flat out incapable of saving on their own for their retirement, which leaves two choices, you either let them run out of money and starve, or you in effect force them to save for the future and make sure that they cannot touch the funds until it is time for them to retire. This still isn't an ideal situation because it means that as a nation we are still failing our citizens because we are still unable to give them the tools to save for themselves. In the right world we wouldn't even need social security since people would know well enough how to save for their own future. Instead, they decide it's a better idea to spend it now and buy that new TV or that new truck or even the new house than putting it in a bank. That's where we really fail because we don't teach people how to save.

So here's the bigger question, since you feel like you should be paying less and less into social security, does that then mean that you feel like someone else should be paying for your retirement? That's the most disturbing thing about our current system, instead of people being compelled to save enough for their own retirements, we've taken in far too little money in. It's actually inexcusable that we're at that point because it's not like predicting lifespan, inflation costs and living expenses is an unknown problem. Insurance companies are doing this on a daily basis. That government incompetence caused this failure is inexcusable.

So now we've created a disaster and for lack of a better term, what should have been an investment system for your own retirement has instead turned into a ponzi scheme. Now to pay for current benefits, we use current funds, the classic description of a ponzi scheme. What should disturb people more is that now we are in effect asking every generations children to pay for their parents retirement. How many parents actually want their children paying for their retirement? I know mine wouldn't want me to, and I know I wouldn't want my children to. That is truly the biggest crime of our social security system. We're asking the next generation to pay for the current one. It's now not just that we as people can't save, but also our government is incapable of saving for the future too.

Unfortunately there is likely no other way to fix the current situation than to ask the next generation to pay more out of their salaries to rebalance SS and restore it to solvency. But we just can't meet current expenses, we have to fix the system and part of fixing the system is to stop calling FICA a tax, it can't be. FICA should be about making sure that you save for your retirement when you are young so that you will have money to live on when you are old. Does this mean that everyone will pay in as much money as they take out? No of course not, those of the truly poor may not make enough to pay in enough and that's ok, so long as the majority of people are paying in enough to match what they are expected to take out. That would be a finally healthy social security system.

You don't have to play with retirement accounts or anything particularly exotic to fix the system, you just need to make sure that on average people pay in(with expected interest) what they are expected to remove from the system in retirement. It's really not rocket science, but it does require political will to make it happen instead of putting money in people's pocket today to win an election that will have to come out of their children's pockets in the future.

blaise
08-04-2011, 04:42 AM
And the circle jerk begins....

You came in to be the pivot man?

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-04-2011, 05:36 AM
You came in to be the pivot man?


We know you would be towel boy

blaise
08-04-2011, 06:25 AM
We know you would be towel boy

No towel boy needed when you're the pivot. Not a drop hits the floor.

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-04-2011, 06:48 AM
No towel boy needed when you're the pivot. Not a drop hits the floor.

You're so smart Blaise ..

mlyonsd
08-04-2011, 06:51 AM
And the circle jerk begins....
Have you got anything to add to the conversation?

mlyonsd
08-04-2011, 06:52 AM
Well when you guys have to pay an extra $1500 next year, at least you can give a silent thanks to the tea party for holding the line on taxes on income over $250k (for which they could have gotten $4T in cuts in return). Lord knows the wealthy have only shattered the record for % of wealth held by the top 2% of the population over the past decade, while everyone else has suffered. They could use another break.

Cognitive dissonance ftw.

You realize the rich will be paying more than $1500 when this is reapealed, right?

blaise
08-04-2011, 07:02 AM
You're so smart Blaise ..

Thanks, Dottefan.