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Coogs
08-06-2011, 10:49 AM
Sad news. Several of the men who took out Bin Laden apparently dead.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44043847/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/?gt1=43001

mlyonsd
08-06-2011, 10:50 AM
Ugg.

HonestChieffan
08-06-2011, 10:51 AM
Rain hell down on em

Pablo
08-06-2011, 10:51 AM
Awful.

eazyb81
08-06-2011, 10:58 AM
Terrible news. RIP

Chiefnj2
08-06-2011, 11:01 AM
The other guys in the unit are going to open a world of hurt on those responsible.

nose
08-06-2011, 11:02 AM
Sounds pretty suspect IMO! Guess TPTB were worried somone might talk

|Zach|
08-06-2011, 11:02 AM
:mad::(

nose
08-06-2011, 11:03 AM
Dead men tell no tales!

Reaper16
08-06-2011, 11:04 AM
Sounds pretty suspect IMO! Guess TPTB were worried somone might talk

GTFO

Coogs
08-06-2011, 11:04 AM
Sounds pretty suspect IMO! Guess TPTB were worried somone might talk

Man, don't send this off to DC. :shake:

These guys are American Hero's. They deserve our respect.

nose
08-06-2011, 11:08 AM
I don't disagree, and they have my respect. The people responcible for this on the other hand DO NOT!

donkhater
08-06-2011, 11:08 AM
At least Afghanistan will be democracy soon.:rolleyes:

Demonpenz
08-06-2011, 12:20 PM
First the Woman lose the world cup now, credit crisis, nothing has been going well for the US since the murder of osama bin ladin

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-06-2011, 12:22 PM
RIP

KurtCobain
08-06-2011, 12:28 PM
damn this is terrible

It's a shame that any of our guys die. :( Rip, good dudes.

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-06-2011, 12:30 PM
URGENT: More than 20 Navy SEALs from the Team 6 unit die after a NATO helicopter crashes, but U.S. officials say that none of them were part of the team that killed terror leader Usama bin Laden.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/06/afghan-president-31-americans-killed-in-helicopter-crash/?test=latestnews

RNR
08-06-2011, 12:36 PM
I dont know what type ...just very sad~

Deberg_1990
08-06-2011, 12:56 PM
Wow...RIP.....

Truthfully though, their lives are no less or greater than any of the other thousands of men and women who have lost their lives over the past 10 years. They are all heroes.

Coogs
08-06-2011, 01:00 PM
Wow...RIP.....

Truthfully though, their lives are no less or greater than any of the other thousands of men and women who have lost their lives over the past 10 years. They are all heroes.

Most definately. Didn't mean for it to sound otherwise.

BigRedChief
08-06-2011, 01:03 PM
None of those in the helicopter were on the team that took out Bin Laden. But that doesn't make them any less bad ass and no less of a hero.

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-06-2011, 01:04 PM
Wow...RIP.....

Truthfully though, their lives are no less or greater than any of the other thousands of men and women who have lost their lives over the past 10 years. They are all heroes.

This

Coogs
08-06-2011, 01:05 PM
None of those in the helicopter were on the team that took out Bin Laden. But that doesn't make them any less bad ass and no less of a hero.

Agreed!

Kraus
08-06-2011, 01:16 PM
This sucks. All heroes in my book. Hopefully the rest of the guys will fuck up whoever did this.

ForeverChiefs58
08-06-2011, 01:45 PM
This sucks. They are true american heroes. All of them are. I hope they make the cockroaches who are responsible and those who protect them pay with their lives. This sounds like a great place to drop some big powerful bombs.


When Frankie comes out to defend the terrorists and spew about how we brought it on ourselves like 9-11, I hope someone sticks a boot in his ass too!

go bowe
08-06-2011, 01:58 PM
This sucks. They are true american heroes. All of them are. I hope they make the cockroaches who are responsible and those who protect them pay with their lives. This sounds like a great place to drop some big powerful bombs.


When Frankie comes out to defend the terrorists and spew about how we brought it on ourselves like 9-11, I hope someone sticks a boot in his ass too!

dayum...

frankie's not even here yet and he's already got you pissed?

ChiefButthurt
08-06-2011, 02:02 PM
RIP brave soldiers.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bX7V6FAoTLc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

4th and Long
08-06-2011, 02:11 PM
My nephew is a SEAL and he's over there right now. Thank God he called home this morning.
Posted via Mobile Device

threebag02
08-06-2011, 02:12 PM
First the Woman lose the world cup now, credit crisis, nothing has been going well for the US since the murder of osama bin ladin

**** osama bin laden!!!

Fucking murder of? GTFO on a serious note dick smoker.
Fucking Go Suck Benedict Arnolds Cock dick breath.

ForeverChiefs58
08-06-2011, 02:13 PM
dayum...

frankie's not even here yet and he's already got you pissed?

Hey go bowe. How are ya?

Nah, I'm not pissed. People like him who have those views of 9-11 and this great nation while sucking on the hind tit of this country just really disgust me more than anything. He has shown his true colors and where his loyalty is, and it is not the red, white and blue my friend. He sure as hell shouldn't be a citizen of this country while ignoring his oath he took.

go bowe
08-06-2011, 02:13 PM
My nephew is a SEAL and he's over there right now. Thank God he called home this morning.
Posted via Mobile Device

glad to hear that...

:toast: to the brave men and women who defend our freedom...

threebag02
08-06-2011, 02:15 PM
Fucking low rent terrorist cocksucker.

threebag02
08-06-2011, 02:20 PM
With that out of the way RIP.

Oregon chief
08-06-2011, 02:24 PM
Are we sure it was team 6? They usually keep that level of detail pretty classified.

GloryDayz
08-06-2011, 02:43 PM
This sucks. They are true american heroes. All of them are. I hope they make the cockroaches who are responsible and those who protect them pay with their lives. This sounds like a great place to drop some big powerful bombs.


When Frankie comes out to defend the terrorists and spew about how we brought it on ourselves like 9-11, I hope someone sticks a boot in his ass too!

Like this one???

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HsQdeAeOEg4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ChiefsNow
08-06-2011, 02:46 PM
Are we sure it was team 6? They usually keep that level of detail pretty classified.

I would think the enemy would consider it , and use it as a big victory to kill the team that killed bin hiding , so we would want to let them know they didn't .

BigRock
08-06-2011, 02:50 PM
Several of the men who took out Bin Laden apparently dead.

The link is now saying "SEALs were from same unit but not same team that killed Osama bin Laden".

GoHuge
08-06-2011, 03:01 PM
This just made me sick when I read it. RIP

Valiant
08-06-2011, 03:10 PM
RIP brave soldiers.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bX7V6FAoTLc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I hate that song.. War is not nice or glorious.. But it can be good for lots of things and people.. Well certain wars at least..

RNR
08-06-2011, 04:06 PM
**** osama bin laden!!!

****ing murder of? GTFO on a serious note dick smoker.
****ing Go Suck Benedict Arnolds Cock dick breath.

Yeah comparing this to some fucking women's soccer game is pretty rich. The term "murdered" is pretty lame also. He is a good poster so I assumed he was just not thinking when he posted~

Baby Lee
08-06-2011, 05:08 PM
I hate that song.. War is not nice or glorious.. But it can be good for lots of things and people.. Well certain wars at least..

According to Jerry it was the original title of Tolstoy's 'War and Peace.'

Iowanian
08-06-2011, 05:11 PM
terrible.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 05:33 PM
Are we sure it was team 6? They usually keep that level of detail pretty classified.

yea that seems a little less likely. I mean it's not like they wear insignia saying 'seal team 6'. All that anyone would know is that they are seals. Op sec would suggest that all that should have been said was they are seals, but not the same group that kill Osama. Seems weird to give more information than that.....

Deberg_1990
08-06-2011, 05:56 PM
They are now reporting also killed was a civilian interpreter, seven Afghan commandos, three Air Force air controllers and a dog handler and his dog among the Navy Seals.

scott free
08-06-2011, 06:10 PM
This is truly sickening, what are the odds that the biggest one day death toll for our troops in afghanistan, includes mostly men from team 6, so soon after they got obl? Pure luck, or was it?

Seeing how i'm currently about 3/4 through Stephen Colls 'Ghost Wars', an incredibly detailed history of the US involvement in afghanistan from the russian war forward, its incredibly easy to let my mind stray into conspiracy land... particularly our 'partner' Pakistan, my gut feeling is that this was Pak ISI's way of evening the score for obl, thereby maintaining their intimate ties to everyone that hates the US, after losing face when we killed his sorry ass.

This world would make Machiavellis head spin, God bless all of those servicemen.

Bill Lundberg
08-06-2011, 06:10 PM
A college friend of mine was one of the SEALS on that helicopter. Please say a prayer for his family and all the families affected. He leaves behind two small children and a wife who is 4 months away from giving birth to his third. I'm proud to have known him, he was a great guy and a true American hero. He will be missed.

scott free
08-06-2011, 06:13 PM
A college friend of mine was one of the SEALS on that helicopter. Please say a prayer for his family and all the families affected. He leaves behind two small children and a wife who is 4 months away from giving birth to his third. I'm proud to have known him, he was a great guy and a true American hero. He will be missed.

Bet on it.

Bowser
08-06-2011, 06:18 PM
A college friend of mine was one of the SEALS on that helicopter. Please say a prayer for his family and all the families affected. He leaves behind two small children and a wife who is 4 months away from giving birth to his third. I'm proud to have known him, he was a great guy and a true American hero. He will be missed.

Thoughts to you and his family.

Hog Farmer
08-06-2011, 06:37 PM
URGENT: More than 20 Navy SEALs from the Team 6 unit die after a NATO helicopter crashes, but U.S. officials say that none of them were part of the team that killed terror leader Usama bin Laden.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/06/afghan-president-31-americans-killed-in-helicopter-crash/?test=latestnews


As bad as this is it would be horrible that we lost the team that took out Bin Laden. These Taliban mother fuckers need to be toast!!!!

teedubya
08-06-2011, 06:47 PM
Sounds pretty suspect IMO! Guess TPTB were worried somone might talk

My. Thoughts. Exactly. I personally stated a few times after the Obama victory speech, to not be surprised if Seal Team 6 mysteriously dies in a plane wreck or something. The first rule of revolution: kill off the people who helped you gain power.

Don't say that shit around here, though. Don't EVER ****ING QUESTION THE OFFICIAL STORY, YOU UNAMERICAN ****S!!!!

BigRedChief
08-06-2011, 07:11 PM
My. Thoughts. Exactly. Don't say that shit around here, though.

Don't EVER FUCKING QUESTION THE OFFICIAL STORY, YOU UNAMERICAN FUCK!!!!No one ever loses their ability to question or fact check what their government is telling them.

But a thread where the obvious feeling among the posters is focusing on the soldiers as people, not on the big picture or politics doesn't seem to be the best place to bring up a government cover up theory. :hmmm:

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 07:22 PM
My. Thoughts. Exactly. I personally stated a few times after the Obama victory speech, to not be surprised if Seal Team 6 mysteriously dies in a plane wreck or something. The first rule of revolution: kill off the people who helped you gain power.

Don't say that shit around here, though. Don't EVER ****ING QUESTION THE OFFICIAL STORY, YOU UNAMERICAN ****S!!!!

Dude there are likely hundreds of ST6 members. losing a platoon, while bad, would be like losing a ranger platoon. Sadly things like this happen all the time we just don't hear about it

If I remember the statistics correctly 1 in 4 seals end up dying as a seal. These are not the people that you would need to 'shut up' they're already so highly cleared that if there was ever a concern that they might tell anyone about anything they do they simply wouldn't be seals, much less ST6.

Old Dog
08-06-2011, 07:24 PM
Dude there are likely hundreds of ST6 members. losing a platoon, while bad, would be like losing a ranger platoon. Sadly things like this happen all the time we just don't hear about it

If I remember the statistics correctly 1 in 4 seals end up dying as a seal. These are not the people that you would need to 'shut up' they're already so highly cleared that if there was ever a concern that they might tell anyone about anything they do they simply wouldn't be seals, much less ST6.

Rangers - SEAL = Apples - Orange

Other than the fact that they're American you're talking about a HUGE difference in training levels.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 07:25 PM
Personally I'm not convinced that ST6 was actually the unit involved. These people are part of a group with an effectively unlimited budget with any equipment they can get/need. Why use a chinook? It's old and slow and probably not terribly stealthy. They have their choice of transport, this smells of something else. This feels like an intel op or some setup for a future operation.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 07:29 PM
Rangers - SEAL = Apples - Orange

Other than the fact that they're American you're talking about a HUGE difference in training levels.

I'm actually not saying they are the same...it's a huge difference, but rangers are relatively speaking a 'huge' unit. The loss of a single platoon, while bad, is statistically small. Ditto for the seals even though we always think of the number of seals as 'small' That was the point I'm making, you have a relatively large number of operators taking the top 1% of all most dangerous missions. Losing a unit, while sounds bad, encompasses a smallish part of their force.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 07:30 PM
A college friend of mine was one of the SEALS on that helicopter. Please say a prayer for his family and all the families affected. He leaves behind two small children and a wife who is 4 months away from giving birth to his third. I'm proud to have known him, he was a great guy and a true American hero. He will be missed.

:(sorry for your and his family's loss.

Gracie Dean
08-06-2011, 07:32 PM
IT is time to get the heck out of there.

Gracie Dean
08-06-2011, 07:35 PM
A college friend of mine was one of the SEALS on that helicopter. Please say a prayer for his family and all the families affected. He leaves behind two small children and a wife who is 4 months away from giving birth to his third. I'm proud to have known him, he was a great guy and a true American hero. He will be missed.

I am so very sorry

CoMoChief
08-06-2011, 07:38 PM
cover up

durtyrute
08-06-2011, 07:39 PM
100 more years in Afgan

GoHuge
08-06-2011, 07:42 PM
Seeing how i'm currently about 3/4 through Stephen Colls 'Ghost Wars', an incredibly detailed history of the US involvement in afghanistan from the russian war forward, its incredibly easy to let my mind stray into conspiracy land... particularly our 'partner' Pakistan, my gut feeling is that this was Pak ISI's way of evening the score for obl, thereby maintaining their intimate ties to everyone that hates the US, after losing face when we killed his sorry ass.
You might just be letting your imagination get the better of you.

With that said none of us are experts on SEAL Team 6 tactics, but this dropping in on top of their target just seems incredibly risky. Saw it in the OBL operation with the modified Blackhawk, and when all of those SEALs were killed dropping in on Chinooks in the early part of the Afghanistan war. You can hear a Chinook coming from miles away. I can't imagine there being a more obvious "here we come" than a Chinook incursion.

Anyway this thing just breaks my heart. Feels like I lost a friend. This shit has got to come to an end. When we have intel on confirmed insurgent locations just drop a couple 2000 lb. JDAM's a level the place. Fucking sick of this "hearts and minds" bullshit. Half the people that would be considered collateral damage are supporters of these fuckers. A 100 of those people are not worth one member of our armed forces. Afghanistan is a country that will never be free from the Taliban or any other religious extremists. Corruption is so rampant there that a democracy will never work. That country is run by war/drug lords that will die before they give up their way of life. Just annihilate them and get the fuck out. The only way this war will ultimately be be considered a success is if we kill every single insurgent and those that share their ideology. War and killing people is that countries national past time. Anything short of that and these crazy fucks will be right back in 10 years and the exact same problem will still exist..........especially with the real threat (Pakistan) right next door. Time to get the fuck out. We will never change a thing in that part of the world.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 07:42 PM
BTW some interesting factoids that come from another article when people talk about effectiveness and these are just the reported numbers counting 'official' operations.

Afghanistan has more U.S. special operations troops, about 10,000, than any other theater of war. The forces, often joined by Afghan troops, carry out as many as a dozen raids a night and have become one of the most effective weapons in the coalition's arsenal, also conducting surveillance and infiltration.

From April to July this year, special operations raids captured 2,941 insurgents and killed 834, twice as many as those killed or captured in the same three-month period of 2010, according to NATO.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 07:48 PM
You might just be letting your imagination get the better of you.

With that said none of us are experts on SEAL Team 6 tactics, but this dropping in on top of their target just seems incredibly risky. Saw it in the OBL operation with the modified Blackhawk, and when all of those SEALs were killed dropping in on Chinooks in the early part of the Afghanistan war. You can hear a Chinook coming from miles away. I can't imagine there being a more obvious "here we come" than a Chinook incursion.

Anyway this thing just breaks my heart. Feels like I lost a friend. This shit has got to come to an end. When we have intel on confirmed insurgent locations just drop a couple 2000 lb. JDAM's a level the place. Fucking sick of this "hearts and minds" bullshit. Half the people that would be considered collateral damage are supporters of these fuckers. A 100 of those people are not worth one member of our armed forces. Afghanistan is a country that will never be free from the Taliban or any other religious extremists. Corruption is so rampant there that a democracy will never work. That country is run by war/drug lords that will die before they give up their way of life. Just annihilate them and get the fuck out. The only way this war will ultimately be be considered a success is if we kill every single insurgent and those that share their ideology. War and killing people is that countries national past time. Anything short of that and these crazy fucks will be right back in 10 years and the exact same problem will still exist..........especially with the real threat (Pakistan) right next door. Time to get the fuck out. We will never change a thing in that part of the world.

Frankly the only reason you go in, in person is when you need the intel that remote devices would destroy(or that the collateral damage would be too high from a strike). Or you need to capture an/or confirm a kill.

The noise bit on the Chinook is part of the reason I'm not sure I buy that the seals died there. I'm sure the chinook was shot down and I'm sure seals died....I'm just not sure that that's where they died. The gear doesn't make sense unless it was a last minute op and needed to use what was on hand, but even then it was flown by 160th so they would have their own aircraft at the ready at any time.

I wonder if the seals were actually killed some place they really weren't supposed to be(officially).....

ChiefButthurt
08-06-2011, 07:52 PM
I hate that song.. War is not nice or glorious.. But it can be good for lots of things and people.. Well certain wars at least..

I don't know, but this one just doesn't seem like a good idea. Glad my kids aren't over there.

I don't like that song either, but it seemed appropriate.

Valiant
08-06-2011, 07:56 PM
Frankly the only reason you go in, in person is when you need the intel that remote devices would destroy(or that the collateral damage would be too high from a strike). Or you need to capture an/or confirm a kill.

The noise bit on the Chinook is part of the reason I'm not sure I buy that the seals died there. I'm sure the chinook was shot down and I'm sure seals died....I'm just not sure that that's where they died. The gear doesn't make sense unless it was a last minute op and needed to use what was on hand, but even then it was flown by 160th so they would have their own aircraft at the ready at any time.

I wonder if the seals were actually killed some place they really weren't supposed to be(officially).....

They weren't suppose to be where they were when they got OBL.. I doubt they were killed else where and planted..

Same with all the other idiots who are clamoring conspiracy.. If our government wanted the seal team dead that killed OBL it would of happened without our knowledge on some mission they do every day..

This is just an unfortunate lucky shot by some terrorist..

Pra

GoHuge
08-06-2011, 08:18 PM
It is now being reported by Barbara Starr of CNN (this chick doesn't throw darts) who is their Pentagon correspondent that this SEAL team was on a rescue mission to assist another unit that was pinned down by enemy fire. The reason a Chinook was used makes a lot more sense now as these guys were a quick reaction force. That's why nobody could understand why a Chinook was used. A planned SEAL operation isn't coming in on a Chinook, but a quick reaction force using one makes sense. It would have taken 3 Blackhawks to deliver a force this size. Still skeptical about these being Team 6 SEALs. This isn't their MO. Only reason I can see sending in Team 6 on a rescue mission would be to rescue other Team 6 members or other SEALs pinned down.

teedubya
08-06-2011, 08:20 PM
I'm really sick and tired of ALL Americans deaths in foreign countries. This shit has to end. The US is broke, and the families of these soldiers don't deserve this shit. Bring the troops home, this war is futile.

Marcellus
08-06-2011, 08:21 PM
It is now being reported by Barbara Starr of CNN (this chick doesn't throw darts) who is their Pentagon correspondent that this SEAL team was on a rescue mission to assist another unit that was pinned down by enemy fire. The reason a Chinook was used makes a lot more sense now as these guys were a quick reaction force. That's why nobody could understand why a Chinook was used. A planned SEAL operation isn't coming in on a Chinook, but a quick reaction force using one makes sense. It would have taken 3 Blackhawks to deliver a force this size. Still skeptical about these being Team 6 SEALs. This isn't their MO. Only reason I can see sending in Team 6 on a rescue mission would be to rescue other Team 6 members or other SEALs pinned down.

Talking to a friend today we were discussing why not use 3 Blackhawks? What are the odds 3 of them getting shot down and you lose the whole team? Still not sure why they where on a Chinook which is not typically a SO aircraft.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 08:24 PM
They weren't suppose to be where they were when they got OBL.. I doubt they were killed else where and planted..

Same with all the other idiots who are clamoring conspiracy.. If our government wanted the seal team dead that killed OBL it would of happened without our knowledge on some mission they do every day..

This is just an unfortunate lucky shot by some terrorist..

Pra

So what's I'm talking about isn't conspiracy, it's just the reality of covert operations. People get killed all the time in places they weren't supposed to be. Pre the big wars we had, these operatives would die in 'training missions'. With the wars it's easier to say someone died in a firefight overseas. That said if you lose a bunch at one time people may want to ask more questions, hence if you have a more convenient explanation then that is given to wrap up the story. It's nothing particularly nefarious it's just the reality that sometimes telling the 'real story' puts others in more harm. Everything up until the chinook is fine, the bit that makes me question is that, when you can use the very best gear some of which that just doesn't officially exist...why that one? Could be a perfectly reasonable explanation...and it may be that it wasn't a chinook but some large helicopter that we don't know about. It's just something doesn't quite fit...

teedubya
08-06-2011, 08:31 PM
Dead people can't write books or share unwanted truths... #justsayin

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 08:33 PM
Dead people can't write books or share unwanted truths... #justsayin

If you think special operations troops are a concern to talk you've never been around specops guys.... #justsayin

scott free
08-06-2011, 08:34 PM
You might just be letting your imagination get the better of you.

With that said none of us are experts on SEAL Team 6 tactics, but this dropping in on top of their target just seems incredibly risky. Saw it in the OBL operation with the modified Blackhawk, and when all of those SEALs were killed dropping in on Chinooks in the early part of the Afghanistan war. You can hear a Chinook coming from miles away. I can't imagine there being a more obvious "here we come" than a Chinook incursion.

Anyway this thing just breaks my heart. Feels like I lost a friend. This shit has got to come to an end. When we have intel on confirmed insurgent locations just drop a couple 2000 lb. JDAM's a level the place. ****ing sick of this "hearts and minds" bullshit. Half the people that would be considered collateral damage are supporters of these ****ers. A 100 of those people are not worth one member of our armed forces. Afghanistan is a country that will never be free from the Taliban or any other religious extremists. Corruption is so rampant there that a democracy will never work. That country is run by war/drug lords that will die before they give up their way of life. Just annihilate them and get the **** out. The only way this war will ultimately be be considered a success is if we kill every single insurgent and those that share their ideology. War and killing people is that countries national past time. Anything short of that and these crazy ****s will be right back in 10 years and the exact same problem will still exist..........especially with the real threat (Pakistan) right next door. Time to get the **** out. We will never change a thing in that part of the world.

I'm honestly not so sure i'm getting carried away, thats a helluva shot from a mountaintop for an rpg against hardened chinook pilots, imo its very possible that it wasnt a simple rpg. The book i'm currently reading leaves open all. kinds. of nefarious possibilities.

Other than that, great, great post that i couldnt agree more with, that country will never, ever be truly stable, Robert Gates himself is quoted in Ghost Wars, back when he was a wheel in the CIA that (para) 'any thought that this country will unite, before or after soviet occupation, is purely wishful thinking'. He knew that waaay back when... wtf are we still doing there?

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 08:37 PM
I'm honestly not so sure i'm getting carried away, thats a helluva shot from a mountaintop for an rpg against hardened chinook pilots, imo its very possible that it wasnt a simple rpg. The book i'm currently reading leaves open all. kinds. of nefarious possibilities.

Other than that, great, great post that i couldnt agree more with, that country will never, ever be truly stable, Robert Gates himself is quoted in Ghost Wars, back when he was a wheel in the CIA that (para) 'any thought that this country will unite, before or after soviet occupation, is purely wishful thinking'. He knew that waaay back when... wtf are we still doing there?

Well given the fact that it was flown by the 160th it's entirely possible that the guy was on the roof of a two story building and the chopper was below him...makes the shot a bit easier. Plus if you hit one of the two big rotors it's likely over for a chinook. Might have been a miracle shot but that happens.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 08:44 PM
BTW I just looked up the 160th and they do run a special ops version of the chinook the MH-47G. Probably other than the body there isn't much that's the same as the other 47s.

Based on operational experience in Afghanistan, the CH-47 was found to be an effective substitute for the UH-60 Black Hawk as an assault helicopter. With its larger payload, range, and higher operating speed, one Chinook can replace up to five UH-60s in this role as an air assault transport

If this was a rescue operation and speed matted maybe that's why they choose the chinook.

Pants
08-06-2011, 08:45 PM
Dead people can't write books or share unwanted truths... #justsayin

How many SEALs are on Team Six?

scott free
08-06-2011, 08:48 PM
Well given the fact that it was flown by the 160th it's entirely possible that the guy was on the roof of a two story building and the chopper was below him...makes the shot a bit easier. Plus if you hit one of the two big rotors it's likely over for a chinook. Might have been a miracle shot but that happens.

I have no problem saying that what happened was just dumb luck, but if you'd read just that one book, you'd see imo, that any kind of treachery is possible over there.

Either way, obl's dead... lets get the **** outta there, and nurse our military & country back to health. Ten years is more than enough war, its time to rebuild & institutionally digest the lessons learned.

Param
08-06-2011, 10:18 PM
I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. Disappointing to read this news today.

BigRedChief
08-06-2011, 10:23 PM
I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. Disappointing to read this news today.There is a very good explanation as to why we don't get our helicopters shot down like the russians id in Afghanistan.

BigRedChief
08-06-2011, 10:26 PM
How many SEALs are on Team Six?Thats classified information.

Param
08-06-2011, 10:28 PM
There is a very good explanation as to why we don't get our helicopters shot down like the russians id in Afghanistan.

Cliff notes version?

BigRedChief
08-06-2011, 10:30 PM
If you think special operations troops are a concern to talk you've never been around specops guys.... #justsayinI feel honored every time one of those guys talk about something with me. Not because they have such great stories but because I've earned their trust enough to share.

CrazyPhuD
08-06-2011, 10:47 PM
Cliff notes version?

In short....things like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_Infrared_Counter_Measures

Missile warfare is very much an arms race. One side develops an improved missile, the other side develops countermeasures to defeat that improved missile and so forth.

Since the taliban et al generally are getting second hand/old stock equipment, it can be defeated by most countermeasures.

Param
08-06-2011, 10:49 PM
In short....things like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_Infrared_Counter_Measures

Missile warfare is very much an arms race. One side develops an improved missile, the other side develops countermeasures to defeat that improved missile and so forth.

Since the taliban et al generally are getting second hand/old stock equipment, it can be defeated by most countermeasures.

ty

scott free
08-06-2011, 10:55 PM
There is a very good explanation as to why we don't get our helicopters shot down like the russians id in Afghanistan.

The stinger buyback program?

ForeverChiefs58
08-06-2011, 11:02 PM
You might just be letting your imagination get the better of you.

With that said none of us are experts on SEAL Team 6 tactics, but this dropping in on top of their target just seems incredibly risky. Saw it in the OBL operation with the modified Blackhawk, and when all of those SEALs were killed dropping in on Chinooks in the early part of the Afghanistan war. You can hear a Chinook coming from miles away. I can't imagine there being a more obvious "here we come" than a Chinook incursion.

Anyway this thing just breaks my heart. Feels like I lost a friend. This shit has got to come to an end. When we have intel on confirmed insurgent locations just drop a couple 2000 lb. JDAM's a level the place. Fucking sick of this "hearts and minds" bullshit. Half the people that would be considered collateral damage are supporters of these fuckers. A 100 of those people are not worth one member of our armed forces. Afghanistan is a country that will never be free from the Taliban or any other religious extremists. Corruption is so rampant there that a democracy will never work. That country is run by war/drug lords that will die before they give up their way of life. Just annihilate them and get the fuck out. The only way this war will ultimately be be considered a success is if we kill every single insurgent and those that share their ideology. War and killing people is that countries national past time. Anything short of that and these crazy fucks will be right back in 10 years and the exact same problem will still exist..........especially with the real threat (Pakistan) right next door. Time to get the fuck out. We will never change a thing in that part of the world.


This.

When my nephew first went over there they entered a neighborhood looking for some taliban member, this old guy laughed pointed to all the members of his family and said they were all taliban, everyone he knew was taliban, all of afghanistan was taliban. So, in between fighting bad guys every single day, they rebuilt their neighborhood, their houses, their schools to try and win over their hearts and minds.

Screw trying to buy their loyalty, they only thing these scumbags are loyal to is violence in the name of Allah. I wish we could just kill em all and get out too.

GoHuge
08-06-2011, 11:30 PM
So what's I'm talking about isn't conspiracy, it's just the reality of covert operations. People get killed all the time in places they weren't supposed to be. Pre the big wars we had, these operatives would die in 'training missions'. With the wars it's easier to say someone died in a firefight overseas. That said if you lose a bunch at one time people may want to ask more questions, hence if you have a more convenient explanation then that is given to wrap up the story. It's nothing particularly nefarious it's just the reality that sometimes telling the 'real story' puts others in more harm. Everything up until the chinook is fine, the bit that makes me question is that, when you can use the very best gear some of which that just doesn't officially exist...why that one? Could be a perfectly reasonable explanation...and it may be that it wasn't a chinook but some large helicopter that we don't know about. It's just something doesn't quite fit...I still find it hard to believe we had 22 SEALs that were dead and they came up with this idea to cover a previous botched mission. You may need tp put that book down. You're starting to sound like Mel Gibson in "Conspiracy Theory." Pump the brakes dude.............

Pants
08-07-2011, 12:04 AM
Thats classified information.

Not really.

Tribal Warfare
08-07-2011, 01:42 AM
Who else beleves there's going to be a blood trail in the next few weeks concerning the fuck buckets involved in the attack which will end with there heads on a pike?

HIChief
08-07-2011, 04:31 AM
This.

When my nephew first went over there they entered a neighborhood looking for some taliban member, this old guy laughed pointed to all the members of his family and said they were all taliban, everyone he knew was taliban, all of afghanistan was taliban. So, in between fighting bad guys every single day, they rebuilt their neighborhood, their houses, their schools to try and win over their hearts and minds.

Screw trying to buy their loyalty, they only thing these scumbags are loyal to is violence in the name of Allah. I wish we could just kill em all and get out too.

If you've ever seen this documentary on the plight of Afghan women under Taliban rule, you might think that at least half the country is NOT Taliban. I couldn't imagine any woman willingly subjegating themselves to sub-human treatment like they endured under that regime.

Otter
08-07-2011, 04:52 AM
Turn that place into a glow in the dark parking lot or get the fuck out already.

BigRedChief
08-07-2011, 08:49 AM
Not really.ROFL okay smarty pants......Doesn't matter if the # is out in the wiild. If you have clearance and you are not the top brass and you talk troop #'s you are going to be living in Leavenworth real soon.

BigRedChief
08-07-2011, 08:55 AM
Who else beleves there's going to be a blood trail in the next few weeks concerning the fuck buckets involved in the attack which will end with there heads on a pike?public knowledge follows.......

Another group of our soldiers were attacking a group of Taliban that were responsible for building IED's in afghanistan. Firefight got heavy. The soldiers on that helicopter were being called in to help in the fight.

Needless to say, if you take out the group responsible for building IED's you make it safer for our troops. It's a safe assumtion that such a high value goal was why you had the Seal's invilved in the first place.

All those soldiers died as heroes helping to protect their fellow soldiers.

Cheater5
08-07-2011, 09:40 AM
Talking to a friend today we were discussing why not use 3 Blackhawks? What are the odds 3 of them getting shot down and you lose the whole team? Still not sure why they where on a Chinook which is not typically a SO aircraft.

The Chinook airframe, CH or MH variant was called 'the center of gravity' for our operations in AFG by MG Gary Harrell (google him). It has the power/lift capability needed in the extreme altitudes of that country, reduces the number of turns to/from a FARP, and frankly can take a beating. WHen you're operating at 10k feet, and you need to insert an entire platoon (or 30+ guys) to a target- the '47 has the horsepower to do it- the Blackhawk (regardless of variant) can't handle the load coupled with the thin air. The SOAR stood up another battalion at Fort Lewis (4/160) to keep up with the pace of operations in AFG and the need for more MH47s. At one point, we were buying back CH47 airframes from allies like the UK due to requirements.

Why were ST6 dudes used as a QRF? Don't sweat it...

How could the Taleban shoot down a MH47? They arent dumb, and they arent chunking rocks at our dudes. And as for having worn-out/old equipment; incorrect. You might be surprised what we're finding the Taleban equipped with. Additionally, they have been at war with US for ten years as well. They are incredibly adaptable, learn quickly from mistakes and figure out quickly what works/doesnt work. The Taleban are a very formidable enemy and you better not let images of poor looking, ill equipped, shabbily dressed booger-eaters lull you into thinking otherwise. Just like many of you are madly searching the internet for info on ST6, MH47s or whatever- you don't think our enemies are as well?

Bottom line- the Chinook is much more prevalent airframe in AFG than the Blackhawk.

MIAdragon
08-07-2011, 09:55 AM
Talking to a friend today we were discussing why not use 3 Blackhawks? What are the odds 3 of them getting shot down and you lose the whole team? Still not sure why they where on a Chinook which is not typically a SO aircraft.

Try to fit 3 hawks in a tight space.

Guru
08-07-2011, 11:07 AM
JFC you have got to be kidding me with this shit....

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/06/breaking-news-bin-laden-troops-probably-murderered-to-keep-them-quiet/

Bowser
08-07-2011, 11:12 AM
JFC you have got to be kidding me with this shit....

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/06/breaking-news-bin-laden-troops-probably-murderered-to-keep-them-quiet/

I skimmed it, but was interesting to see that a user named TJ Bronco was posting in the comments section.

Dallas Chief
08-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Heartbreaking news. I just can't get it out of my head that its enough already. They don't want us there and they certainly do like us. Its time to bring the troops home and walk away from that assbackwards hell hole forever. I don't know... How many more lives and treasure do we need to give to that place before it is enough.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-07-2011, 01:19 PM
I just heard that one of the men was a Northwest alum.

Marcellus
08-07-2011, 03:12 PM
The Chinook airframe, CH or MH variant was called 'the center of gravity' for our operations in AFG by MG Gary Harrell (google him). It has the power/lift capability needed in the extreme altitudes of that country, reduces the number of turns to/from a FARP, and frankly can take a beating. WHen you're operating at 10k feet, and you need to insert an entire platoon (or 30+ guys) to a target- the '47 has the horsepower to do it- the Blackhawk (regardless of variant) can't handle the load coupled with the thin air. The SOAR stood up another battalion at Fort Lewis (4/160) to keep up with the pace of operations in AFG and the need for more MH47s. At one point, we were buying back CH47 airframes from allies like the UK due to requirements.

Why were ST6 dudes used as a QRF? Don't sweat it...

How could the Taleban shoot down a MH47? They arent dumb, and they arent chunking rocks at our dudes. And as for having worn-out/old equipment; incorrect. You might be surprised what we're finding the Taleban equipped with. Additionally, they have been at war with US for ten years as well. They are incredibly adaptable, learn quickly from mistakes and figure out quickly what works/doesnt work. The Taleban are a very formidable enemy and you better not let images of poor looking, ill equipped, shabbily dressed booger-eaters lull you into thinking otherwise. Just like many of you are madly searching the internet for info on ST6, MH47s or whatever- you don't think our enemies are as well?

Bottom line- the Chinook is much more prevalent airframe in AFG than the Blackhawk.

Great info, makes sense. Thanks for sharing. I had no idea the 47's were used more there.

I fully understand the Taliban aren't dumb. The Afghans in general are obviously resilient mean SOB's, just ask the Russians.

I believe we were the one's who taught them how to take down helicopters with RPG's in the 80's.

BigRedChief
08-07-2011, 05:16 PM
again from public news reports......

It was a RP7 that took out the helicopter. The RP7 is a 1960's era anti-tank weapon.

seamonster
08-07-2011, 06:21 PM
Rangers - SEAL = Apples - Orange

Other than the fact that they're American you're talking about a HUGE difference in training levels.

It's beeen well documented they're various Unit's of Rangers in the Special Forces, and at a certain point I'd be dropping the "levels of training" thing when comparing Rangers and Seals. A Ranger assigned to Delta Force is probably on a little higher career track than a Navy Seal.

MIAdragon
08-07-2011, 10:46 PM
It's beeen well documented they're various Unit's of Rangers in the Special Forces, and at a certain point I'd be dropping the "levels of training" thing when comparing Rangers and Seals. A Ranger assigned to Delta Force is probably on a little higher career track than a Navy Seal.

Once a guy that was a ranger and makes the jump to delta he is no longer a ranger. There is ZERO comparison between Rangers and Seals, any Ranger would tell you that.

MIAdragon
08-07-2011, 10:49 PM
again from public news reports......

It was a RP7 that took out the helicopter. The RP7 is a 1960's era anti-tank weapon.

RPG-7?? If so not surprising, against low flying helos its a great weapon.

Cheater5
08-08-2011, 03:56 AM
again from public news reports......

It was a RP7 that took out the helicopter. The RP7 is a 1960's era anti-tank weapon.

Yup, the RPG-7 is from the 1960s, and the CH47 was introduced in 1961. However, both have been significantly upgraded since then. For instance, the Chinook brought down two days ago was an MH-47G, and the RPGs (several of them most likely) used were probably the RPG-29. Maybe it wasn't RPGs at all...who knows? Does it matter?

As for Rangers and SEALs being compared and contrasted; a waste of time. Certainly each have similar capabilities, but the reason we have both forces is because there is a REQUIREMENT for what they can bring to the fight. You gotta stop thinking like this is a football team with a first, second, and third string hierarchy. It's more like- "what weapon do I need for this mission, and which one is available right now?"

tyton75
08-08-2011, 05:13 AM
Found out a friend of mine from Kearney was on that Transport, part of Seal Team 6. He will be very missed. Wife and kids with one on the way.

GoHuge
08-08-2011, 12:47 PM
As for Rangers and SEALs being compared and contrasted; a waste of time. Certainly each have similar capabilities, but the reason we have both forces is because there is a REQUIREMENT for what they can bring to the fight. You gotta stop thinking like this is a football team with a first, second, and third string hierarchy. It's more like- "what weapon do I need for this mission, and which one is available right now?"Exactly.........that is why SEAL Team 6 was used to kill OBL. They were the perfect force in size and capability for that operation. Rangers are considered our best mountaineer operators.......which is why they were there. Rangers will/can deploy a much larger force than a SEAL or Delta team usually would.

If you really want to get a good understanding of exactly what happened in Afghanistan during the first 6 months and more specifically what happened in Tora Bora go and get "Kill Bin Laden" by Dalton Fury who was the commanding officer of the 40-50 Delta operators on Bin Laden's ass. If Delta would of had the 1500 Ranger force that they wanted instead of the 1500 mujaheddin and the two warlords then OBL would have been taken out in Tora Bora. We botched that operation from the get go. Here is a sample of how it went down.

http://youtu.be/mmtPBTybQ9k


This should have been done the way that Mossad handled the Munich disaster and "Operation Wrath of God." Kill everyone involved without launching a full scale war. Think about how almost every HVT with al-Qaeda has been captured or killed..........CIA or Spec Ops. The shit with us occupying a country with over 100,000 troops still fighting the Taliban 10 years later is ****ing madness and is accomplishing nothing. Afghanistan and Pakistan are two ****ed places that will never be fixed short of a nuclear carpet bombing.

durtyrute
08-08-2011, 01:15 PM
Since when is it publicized that an special ops helo or plane or whatever is shot down? I thought they were under the radar, hushity hush.

GoHuge
08-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Since when is it publicized that an special ops helo or plane or whatever is shot down? I thought they were under the radar, hushity hush.Welcome to the 21st century.........make yourself at home!!

ForeverChiefs58
08-08-2011, 04:32 PM
US helicopter crashed in Taliban trap: Afghan official

The Taliban lured US forces into an elaborate trap to shoot down their helicopter, killing 30 American troops in the deadliest such incident of the war, an Afghan official said Monday.

US President Barack Obama pledged that the incident -- which killed 38 people -- would not keep foreign forces from prevailing in Afghanistan, and the Pentagon called the downing of the Chinook a "one-off" that would not alter US strategy.

The late Friday attack marked the biggest single loss of life for American and NATO forces since the US-led invasion of Afghanistan toppled the Taliban in late 2001, shortly after the September 11 attacks.

The loss of the Chinook during an anti-Taliban operation southwest of Kabul dealt a blow to elite US special forces, which had 25 members on board -- 22 US Navy SEAL commandos and three Air Force Special Operations Forces.

Five US Army personnel, seven Afghan commandos and an interpreter also died.

A senior Afghan government official told AFP on condition of anonymity that Taliban commander Qari Tahir lured US forces to the scene by tipping them off that a Taliban meeting was taking place.

He also said four Pakistanis helped Tahir carry out the strike.

"Now it's confirmed that the helicopter was shot down and it was a trap that was set by a Taliban commander," said the official, citing intelligence gathered from the area.

"The Taliban knew which route the helicopter would take," he continued.

"That's the only route, so they took position on the either side of the valley on mountains and as the helicopter approached, they attacked it with rockets and other modern weapons. It was brought down by multiple shots."

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity as he was not authorised to discuss the issue, also said President Hamid Karzai's US-backed government "thinks" the attack was retaliation for the May killing of Osama bin Laden.

The Taliban themselves did not make such an assertion on claiming responsibility for the attack, which took place in the Taliban-infested Sayd Abad district of Wardak province.

In Washington, Obama said the loss of the 30 American troops would motivate their colleagues.

"I know that our troops will continue the hard work of transitioning to a stronger Afghan government and ensuring that Afghanistan is not a safe haven for terrorists. We will press on and succeed," the US president said.

Colonel Dave Lapan, a Pentagon spokesman, said he would "caution people against reading too much into a single combat incident."

"At this point, it's a one-off incident," he told reporters, adding it did not amount to "any kind of watershed or trend."

"We still have the Taliban on the run. We've reversed the momentum that they had but they're still going to inflict casualties," Lapan said.

When questioned about whether the attack was linked to a trap laid by a Taliban commander, the militia's spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said: "We have used various tactics over the past 10 years. This could also be a tactic."

The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said the cause of the crash was still being investigated but issued a statement giving details of the moments before the fatal incident.

"The operation began as a security search for a Taliban leader responsible for insurgent operations in the nearby Tangi Valley," it said.

The first wave of ISAF ground troops then exchanged fire with insurgents, killing several of them.

"As the insurgents continued to fire, the combined force on the ground requested additional forces to assist the operation," the statement added.

"Those additional personnel were inbound to the scene when the CH-47 (Chinook) carrying them crashed, killing all on board."

Afghan officials said an insurgent rocket downed the helicopter, which was said to have broken into several parts after being hit.

In eastern Afghanistan on Monday, another helicopter made a "hard landing" in Paktya province, although no one was injured and there were no reports of insurgent fire, ISAF said.

There are currently around 140,000 foreign soldiers in Afghanistan, including about 100,000 US troops.

All international combat troops are due to leave by the end of 2014, but intense violence in recent months, including a series of assassinations in the south, has raised questions about the capability of Afghan forces.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-helicopter-shot-down-taliban-trap-afghan-official-070456126.html

ForeverChiefs58
08-10-2011, 09:43 AM
Good news!

Afghanistan Helicopter Attackers Killed: NATO



WASHINGTON International forces killed the Taliban insurgents responsible for shooting down a U.S. helicopter and killing 38 U.S. and Afghan forces over the weekend, but they are still seeking the top insurgent leader they were going after in Saturday's mission, the top American commander in Afghanistan said Wednesday.

Marine Corps Gen. John Allen told a Pentagon news conference that an F-16 airstrike Monday took out fewer than 10 insurgents involved in the attack on the Chinook helicopter.

In a separate statement Wednesday, the military said the Monday strike killed Taliban leader Mullah Mohibullah and the insurgent who fired the rocket-propelled grenade at the helicopter. The military said intelligence gained on the ground provided a high degree of confidence that the insurgent who fired the grenade was the person killed. It did not provide further details.

Allen defended the decision to send in the Chinook loaded with special operations forces to pursue insurgents escaping from the weekend firefight with Army Rangers in a dangerous region of Wardak province of eastern Afghanistan.

"We've run more than a couple of thousand of these night operations over the last year, and this is the only occasion where this has occurred," said Allen. "The fact that we lost this aircraft is not ... a decision point as to whether we'll use this aircraft in the future. It's not uncommon at all to use this aircraft on our special missions."

While officials believe the helicopter was shot down by a rocket-propelled grenade, Allen said the military's investigation into the crash will also review whether small arms fire or other causes contributed to the crash.

Questions remain about why the troops were called in to aid other U.S. combatants engaged in a firefight, what they knew about the situation on the ground and what role the flight path or altitude may have played in the disastrous crash.

Allen and other officials would not discuss the details of the probe, but it no doubt will include a look at the insurgent threat and the instructions given to the special operations team that crowded into a big Chinook helicopter as it raced to assist other U.S. forces.

According to officials, the team included 22 Navy SEAL personnel, three Air Force airmen, a five-member Army air crew and a military dog, along with seven Afghan commandos and an Afghan interpreter.




Gen. James Mattis, head of U.S. Central Command, appointed Army Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Colt to lead the investigation. Colt is deputy commander of the 101st Airborne Division at Fort Campbell, Ky.

The investigation comes as the remains of the troops killed in the crash were returned Tuesday in an operation shrouded in secrecy by a Defense Department that has refused so far to release the names of the fallen and denied media coverage of the arrival at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware.

Two C-17 aircraft carrying the remains were met by President Barack Obama, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, the Joint Chiefs chairman, Adm. Mike Mullen, and a number of other military leaders.

The investigation will review a number of basic crash questions, which will probably rule out such factors as the weather, terrain and mechanical issues, since military officials believe the helicopter was shot down. It also will look at the flight of the Chinook as it moved into the fighting zone. Chinooks are heavy cargo helicopters that do not have the agility of smaller, more maneuverable aircraft.

At the Pentagon, officials continue to wrangle over whether to release the identities of any or all 30 Americans who died in the crash, even though many of the families have publicly named their loved ones and spoken about their deaths.

It has been department policy to identify troops who are killed. But several officials have said there is a reluctance to release the names because many were SEALs, and they worry their families will be targeted. Most of the SEALs were from the same team that killed Osama bin Laden in May, although none of those killed participated in that raid, senior defense officials said.

Obama and other officials at Dover boarded the two C-17 aircraft to pay tribute to the fallen troops and then watched as 30 transfer cases draped in American flags and eight draped in Afghan flags were taken off the planes. There were several additional transfer cases on the planes, also carrying unidentified remains from the crash.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/10/afghanistan-helicopter-at_n_923136.html

loochy
08-10-2011, 09:46 AM
In a separate statement Wednesday, the military said the Monday strike killed Taliban leader Mullah Mohibullah and the insurgent who fired the rocket-propelled grenade at the helicopter.

Like anyone could even know that, Napoleon.

durtyrute
08-10-2011, 09:59 AM
The late Friday attack marked the biggest single loss of life for American and NATO forces since the US-led invasion of Afghanistan toppled the Taliban in late 2001, shortly after the September 11 attacks.


Since we "toppled" them in 2001, why are we still there?

Pants
08-10-2011, 10:02 AM
Since we "toppled" them in 2001, why are we still there?

Because they will become Afghanistan's government by force once we leave? The whole point right now is to train the ANA to be able to fight off the Taliban after we leave while fighting the Taliban in the process.

Amnorix
08-10-2011, 10:03 AM
Dude there are likely hundreds of ST6 members. losing a platoon, while bad, would be like losing a ranger platoon. Sadly things like this happen all the time we just don't hear about it

If I remember the statistics correctly 1 in 4 seals end up dying as a seal. These are not the people that you would need to 'shut up' they're already so highly cleared that if there was ever a concern that they might tell anyone about anything they do they simply wouldn't be seals, much less ST6.

SEALS graduate about 250 guys per year. Out of the multiple teams, only a handful make it to Seal Team 6. I'd figure we'd have no more than a couple hundred ST6 at any given time. We may have lost 10-20% of total ST6 members. :(

Amnorix
08-10-2011, 10:06 AM
Frankly the only reason you go in, in person is when you need the intel that remote devices would destroy(or that the collateral damage would be too high from a strike). Or you need to capture an/or confirm a kill.

The noise bit on the Chinook is part of the reason I'm not sure I buy that the seals died there. I'm sure the chinook was shot down and I'm sure seals died....I'm just not sure that that's where they died. The gear doesn't make sense unless it was a last minute op and needed to use what was on hand, but even then it was flown by 160th so they would have their own aircraft at the ready at any time.

I wonder if the seals were actually killed some place they really weren't supposed to be(officially).....

Reports indicate they were coming in to help some other guys in a firefight on the ground, which would make sense as to the type of aircraft used (get as many guys there asap).

gblowfish
08-10-2011, 10:07 AM
In a separate statement Wednesday, the military said the Monday strike killed Taliban leader Mullah Mohibullah and the insurgent who fired the rocket-propelled grenade at the helicopter. The military said intelligence gained on the ground provided a high degree of confidence that the insurgent who fired the grenade was the person killed. It did not provide further details.

Mullah Mo Hi Bullah?

Sounds like a college pep squad chant.

Mullah Bullah....Mullah Bullah.....

ForeverChiefs58
08-10-2011, 10:08 AM
The military said intelligence gained on the ground provided a high degree of confidence that the insurgent who fired the grenade was the person killed. It did not provide further details.


Like anyone could even know that, Napoleon.

WTF?

This was posted for those who care. If you don't, then maybe this isn't the thread for you, Einstein.

Amnorix
08-10-2011, 10:10 AM
Great info, makes sense. Thanks for sharing. I had no idea the 47's were used more there.

I fully understand the Taliban aren't dumb. The Afghans in general are obviously resilient mean SOB's, just ask the Russians.

I believe we were the one's who taught them how to take down helicopters with RPG's in the 80's.



And then watched as our Stingers got used against our own troops in Somalia a few years later. :shake:

Amnorix
08-10-2011, 10:11 AM
It's beeen well documented they're various Unit's of Rangers in the Special Forces, and at a certain point I'd be dropping the "levels of training" thing when comparing Rangers and Seals. A Ranger assigned to Delta Force is probably on a little higher career track than a Navy Seal.


You are 100% clueless. Stop talking, and go read something and enlighten yourself.

Amnorix
08-10-2011, 10:13 AM
This should have been done the way that Mossad handled the Munich disaster and "Operation Wrath of God." Kill everyone involved without launching a full scale war. Think about how almost every HVT with al-Qaeda has been captured or killed..........CIA or Spec Ops. The shit with us occupying a country with over 100,000 troops still fighting the Taliban 10 years later is ****ing madness and is accomplishing nothing. Afghanistan and Pakistan are two ****ed places that will never be fixed short of a nuclear carpet bombing.


I'm becoming increasingly convinced that you're right.

ForeverChiefs58
08-10-2011, 10:13 AM
Since we "toppled" them in 2001, why are we still there?

Cause we didn't drop big enough bombs.

Really though it is to keep them from taking back over that country. I have family fighting over there, and I would really like to see them come home too.

loochy
08-10-2011, 10:13 AM
WTF?

This was posted for those who care. If you don't, then maybe this isn't the thread for you, Einstein.

Wow, calm down.

I just thought it was a bit ridiculous that they claim to know exactly who shot the rpg and that he is dead now.

Amnorix
08-10-2011, 10:16 AM
Wow, calm down.

I just thought it was a bit ridiculous that they claim to know exactly who shot the rpg and that he is dead now.


Under some circumstances you're right. Under others, no.

We have SIGINT and HUMINT assets that can do some pretty amazing stuff. Think about how they got OBL after all these years -- in a safe house, in a large city in Pakistan, with no internet or phone.

Pants
08-10-2011, 10:18 AM
Under some circumstances you're right. Under others, no.

We have SIGINT and HUMINT assets that can do some pretty amazing stuff. Think about how they got OBL after all these years -- in a safe house, in a large city in Pakistan, with no internet or phone.

The only way it would be possible to know is if the guy was bragging about the deed and one of our agents overheard it and a strike was scheduled on DAT ASS.

Highly doubtful, though. It was probably just a made up press release for the public.

loochy
08-10-2011, 10:21 AM
The only way it would be possible to know is if the guy was bragging about the deed and one of our agents overheard it and a strike was scheduled on DAT ASS.

Highly doubtful, though. It was probably just a made up press release for the public.

My thinking about the situation is this:

If someone was able to see who was carrying and aiming the RPG, then someone was probably in range to take a few shots and try to stop him. I highly doubt they'd pass up an opportunity to save a whole chopperload of comrades, so who in the world could ID the rocketeer?

Amnorix
08-10-2011, 10:31 AM
I'm thinking there's a pretty good chance of an asset overhearing someone crowing about the shooting down of a Chinook. But honestly, it doesn't much matter.

ForeverChiefs58
08-10-2011, 10:35 AM
Wow, calm down.

I just thought it was a bit ridiculous that they claim to know exactly who shot the rpg and that he is dead now.

I was just messing with ya back a little is all. I actually thought the same thing about the inteligence gathering. I am sure though the guy/guys who made the shot bragged about it or became overnight heroes to the locals. Either that or when questioned they just said, "hey muhamaad did it", or "it was that Akbar son of a bitch, he is always doing things like that" ROFL

Just glad they are kicking ass. Can't wait for them to get the hell out of there.

loochy
08-10-2011, 11:40 AM
Either that or when questioned they just said, "hey muhamaad did it", or "it was that Akbar son of a bitch, he is always doing things like that" ROFL

Hell, they were probably jealous that he got the killshot! "That SOB took the shot, but it was MY turn!"

Actually it would have had to have been 2 shots to the chopper, beacuse, as anyone that plays Battlefiled 2 knows, it takes 2 hits (sometimes 3) with the anti-tank to bring down a chopper.

BigRedChief
08-10-2011, 08:28 PM
The only way it would be possible to know is if the guy was bragging about the deed and one of our agents overheard it and a strike was scheduled on DAT ASS.

Highly doubtful, though. It was probably just a made up press release for the public.those dudes love to brag about killing Americans.

CrazyPhuD
08-10-2011, 08:50 PM
those dudes love to brag about killing Americans.

you would think by now they would have learned that loose lips are highly laser reflective.

Dave Lane
08-10-2011, 09:21 PM
RPG-7?? If so not surprising, against low flying helos its a great weapon.

So probably part of the stuff we gave the Taliban during the Afghan war. FML