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Tribal Warfare
08-06-2011, 11:25 PM
Chiefs camp report: Team is at different levels when it comes to fitness (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/06/3061032/chiefs-camp-report-team-is-at.html)
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

ST. JOSEPH | The Chiefs put this most unusual of training camps on pause today, taking the day off before getting back to work on Monday at Missouri Western.

Because the lockout stole their offseason practice and conditioning time, the Chiefs have been moving at a much slower pace in camp than usual. They’ve worked sparingly in pads and contact has been minimal.

The Chiefs had their first camp practice July 29 but several key players couldn’t join until Thursday under NFL rules. So the Chiefs are practicing with groups of players at differing fitness levels.

That’s setting back progress.

“Not having everybody (until Thursday) made it a little tough,” defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel said. “Now we’ve got numbers. Everybody’s in, but not everybody is at the same (fitness) level.

“The guys who are just getting here, they think they’ve been working but they’re not in football shape. So now they’ve got to try to catch up to the guys who were here early. As soon as we get those guys caught up, everyone will be on equal footing and then we’ll have a chance to make real progress.”

Coach Todd Haley said he wasn’t certain the Chiefs would hold a traditional camp practice, with full pads and a lot of contact, before they break camp in fewer than two weeks.

“I’m hoping,” Haley said. “But we’re still not there yet as a group, and that’s what I really want to feel before we go full bore ahead. I would think that once they get through (today) off that we have a chance to come back and really get a good evaluation of where everybody is.

“… We’re just trying to get the entire team in the (physical condition) where we know we need to be.”

The Chiefs open their preseason schedule Friday against Tampa Bay at Arrowhead Stadium. Haley said the Chiefs won’t rush their timetable to be ready then.

“Our overall focus is Sept. 11 and Buffalo and trying to get that right as far as our progression as a team,” Haley said, speaking of the regular-season opener at Arrowhead Stadium. “If you get ahead of yourself, then you could take two big steps backwards potentially, which is what we cannot afford to do.”

Kicking it off

New NFL rules put the ball at the 35-yard line for kickoffs instead of the 30. Teams will now have a choice when kicking off: kick deep and hope for the touchback or try to pin the opponent with starting field position inside the 20.

Ryan Succop hasn’t displayed the strongest leg on kickoffs since joining the Chiefs two years ago, but he has shown the ability to make a high kickoff, one that allows the team to get down the field and cover.

Succop kicked off once in Saturday’s practice, and with a breeze at his back, he put it out of the end zone.

“We’re excited about Ryan’s skills and how they’ll potentially play into that one way or another, whatever philosophy you take as a kickoff team,” coach Todd Haley said.

Defensive addition

The Chiefs have signed 305-pound defensive lineman Amon Gordon. Gordon played in 17 games with four starts over the last several seasons with the Browns, Broncos, Ravens, Titans and Seahawks.

Gordon gives the Chiefs another body at end, where Glenn Dorsey is missing because of an injury. Gordon joined the Chiefs in time for Saturday’s practice.

The offense
Promising wide receiver Jeremy Horne caught a pair of touchdown passes from Ricky Stanzi near the end of practice. Horne made a leaping grab in the back of the end zone and later made a difficult catch in the end zone between two defenders. … The backup offense was sloppy at one point in the same drill, getting three penalties in a span of four plays. … Ryan Succop made his only field-goal attempt, from 30 yards out.

The defense
Javier Arenas, a 5-foot-9 nickel back, played perfect technique to get into position to break up a fade pass in the end zone intended for 6-1 Verran Tucker. … Linebacker Demorrio Williams intercepted a Tyler Palko pass. … Wallace Gilberry replaced injured Glenn Dorsey as one starting defensive end.

Injury report
Tight end Tony Moeaki is on the physically unable to perform list and did not practice. Dorsey and rookie wide receiver Jonathan Baldwin also did not practice.

Daily battle
Horne will probably not get much, if any, playing time — and that’s if he makes the roster. The Chiefs have four veterans plus Baldwin ahead of him. But Horne is fast and could force the Chiefs to keep him if he continues to make big catches like the ones he made in practice Saturday.

Today’s schedule
The Chiefs are off today and resume training camp Monday at Missouri Western.

91 Saturday’s high temperature in St. Joseph

45 Number of Matt Cassel’s NFL regular-season starts

0 Number of NFL regular-season starts for the other QBs, Tyler Palko and Ricky Stanzi

scott free
08-06-2011, 11:52 PM
Cant wait to see what Romeo cooks up this year, no homer sloganism is needed to be enthused about this d's potential.

Would've liked another player at NT, but nonetheless, you just know Romeo is made for the job... he masterfully cobbled together a damned respectable defense from various leftovers & FNG's last year.

And he's only just getting started with his alchemy...

BigChiefFan
08-07-2011, 12:04 AM
I'm ready to see the team take another step in the right direction. The thing I like about the FA pick-ups, that should make the team, is they are all hard-working football players, who seem to dig deep to actually make heart come into the equation...a rare thing in this day and age. I can see us getting hot this year. Can you say Buster Poindexter? Pioli's done a quality job and I'm glad we actually have some leadership with knowledge of building a team to win. The future looks bright, so I'm wearing shades. Go Chiefs!

rocknrolla
08-07-2011, 12:12 AM
I'm on the Powe bus. I think he's going to be great.

KurtCobain
08-07-2011, 12:14 AM
I think he's gonna be a bus.

RustShack
08-07-2011, 12:16 AM
I really don't understand all the hate on our NT situation.

Gregg is better than Edwards.
Powe is better than the backup we didn't have.
He is also bigger, faster, and more athletic than both of those other guys. He has arguably the best 3-4 DL coach in Crennel, and a player who played his entire career under that coach who knows all the tricks as his DL coach. Not to mention Gregg is just like Vrabel and will take Powe under his wing to make the team better for the future.

noa
08-07-2011, 05:39 AM
I forgot we still have Demorio Williams
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milkman
08-07-2011, 05:47 AM
Cant wait to see what Romeo cooks up this year, no homer sloganism is needed to be enthused about this d's potential.

Would've liked another player at NT, but nonetheless, you just know Romeo is made for the job... he masterfully cobbled together a damned respectable defense from various leftovers & FNG's last year.

And he's only just getting started with his alchemy...

Maybe I'm misuderstanding.

Cobbled together?

You mean with guys like Glen Dorsey, DJ, Tamba, Berry, Lewis and Carr, all Chiefs picks that form the core group?

CoMoChief
08-07-2011, 06:47 AM
I really don't understand all the hate on our NT situation.

Gregg is better than Edwards.
Powe is better than the backup we didn't have.
He is also bigger, faster, and more athletic than both of those other guys. He has arguably the best 3-4 DL coach in Crennel, and a player who played his entire career under that coach who knows all the tricks as his DL coach. Not to mention Gregg is just like Vrabel and will take Powe under his wing to make the team better for the future.

Powe is not better than Shaun Smith

chiefzilla1501
08-07-2011, 06:59 AM
Powe is not better than Shaun Smith

Well obvkously never know until they hit the field but cmon. Smith was a decent 5 tech but ab below avg nt.

BigChiefTablet
08-07-2011, 07:01 AM
This is a little disheartening. Half the team is out of shape, Dorsey, Moeaki and apparently Baldwin are injured, and we have a pre-season game in less than a week.

-King-
08-07-2011, 07:07 AM
This is a little disheartening. Half the team is out of shape, Dorsey, Moeaki and apparently Baldwin are injured, and we have a pre-season game in less than a week.

Eh not really. They don't mean out of shape like fat and overweight, just out of football shape. Everybody in the league is out of football shape.
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the Talking Can
08-07-2011, 07:24 AM
arian foster pulled his hamstring on his first day of camp


the whole league is out of football shape

Deberg_1990
08-07-2011, 07:27 AM
This was actually a decent report from Teicher and relevant.

I think the first few preseason games teams will look very rusty.

Why did the NFL move kickoffs up again to the 35? When they pushed it back to the 30 several years ago they said they wanted more returns, now they want more touchbacks?

milkman
08-07-2011, 07:33 AM
Powe is not better than Shaun Smith

Wow, do you even watch football?

Why did the NFL move kickoffs up again to the 35? When they pushed it back to the 30 several years ago they said they wanted more returns, now they want more touchbacks?

Player safety, trying to eliminate some of the violent collisions.

allen_kcCard
08-07-2011, 07:42 AM
This was actually a decent report from Teicher and relevant.

I think the first few preseason games teams will look very rusty.

Why did the NFL move kickoffs up again to the 35? When they pushed it back to the 30 several years ago they said they wanted more returns, now they want more touchbacks?

They said something about too many injuries. Moving it up shortens the field, so more touchbacks, and the contact on ones that do stay in play is a little less with 5 less yards of gunning room.

the Talking Can
08-07-2011, 07:44 AM
they should cancel the first preseason game....i think it is going to be a disaster with guys who aren't ready getting injured

mlyonsd
08-07-2011, 07:56 AM
they should cancel the first preseason game....i think it is going to be a disaster with guys who aren't ready getting injuredThat's a pretty good idea.

J Diddy
08-07-2011, 08:03 AM
they should cancel the first preseason game....i think it is going to be a disaster with guys who aren't ready getting injured


I have a pretty good feeling that injuries are going to play a much larger part in this years SB champion. The team with the shortest injury list is probably going to win it all. Even though that's a safe bet most of the time, I'd go so far to say that it's a lock this year.

58-4ever
08-07-2011, 08:16 AM
I have a pretty good feeling that injuries are going to play a much larger part in this years SB champion. The team with the shortest injury list is probably going to win it all. Even though that's a safe bet most of the time, I'd go so far to say that it's a lock this year.

How many Packers were on IR last year?

-King-
08-07-2011, 08:57 AM
they should cancel the first preseason game....i think it is going to be a disaster with guys who aren't ready getting injured

They have 200 million reasons not to
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milkman
08-07-2011, 09:00 AM
How many Packers were on IR last year?

16, I believe.

But that really is an abberation.

An abberation that illustrates the difference a true franchise QB can make.

the Talking Can
08-07-2011, 09:08 AM
How many Packers were on IR last year?

milkman said it


but that just proves once again that QB is the most important position, an nothing else is even close...if you don't have 'that' QB you are basically wasting time


good QBs can cover up for lots of holes....average QBs have to have everything perfect to even have a chance...

stonedstooge
08-07-2011, 09:22 AM
they should cancel the first preseason game....i think it is going to be a disaster with guys who aren't ready getting injured

BBBUUUTTTT the owners are all broke and need the money

RustShack
08-07-2011, 09:47 AM
Powe is not better than Shaun Smith

Our backup NT isn't better than the guy who started at DE while Jackson was hurt? Not sure how you measure or even know that, but alright.

suzzer99
08-07-2011, 10:03 AM
So who are the 4 receivers ahead of Horne? Is he counting Copper as one of those? Booo if so.

Ace Gunner
08-07-2011, 10:04 AM
perhaps someone knows the answer to this - I haven't read about the OL over the past week - is Lilja playing LG with first team or is Hudson?

Rausch
08-07-2011, 10:05 AM
So who are the 4 receivers ahead of Horne? Is he counting Copper as one of those? Booo if so.

Agreed.

I'd argue Horne is the only developmental guy we have worthy of a (give him time, he's going to be somebody) spot...

milkman
08-07-2011, 10:05 AM
perhaps someone knows the answer to this - I haven't read about the OL over the past week - is Lilja playing LG with first team or is Hudson?

Lilja.

Hudson is working behind Wiegman at center.
Daryl Harris is working behind Lilja at LG.

milkman
08-07-2011, 10:06 AM
Agreed.

I'd argue Horne is the only developmental guy we have worthy of a (give him time, he's going to be somebody) spot...

I would argue that Verran Tucker is also a developmental guy.

RustShack
08-07-2011, 10:06 AM
perhaps someone knows the answer to this - I haven't read about the OL over the past week - is Lilja playing LG with first team or is Hudson?

Yes, and Hudson is the backup C.

RustShack
08-07-2011, 10:07 AM
Agreed.

I'd argue Horne is the only developmental guy we have worthy of a (give him time, he's going to be somebody) spot...

Tucker showed some flashes last year when he was our #2 WR for a little bit.

milkman
08-07-2011, 10:11 AM
Yes, and Hudson is the backup C.

Repost.

Tucker showed some flashes last year when he was our #2 WR for a little bit.

Repost #2.

Rausch
08-07-2011, 10:24 AM
I would argue that Verran Tucker is also a developmental guy.

Should be interesting.

The locks are Bowe, Baldwin, and Breaston.

Then there's.......whatever.

I'd think they keep 6 since Haley is such a WR fan and we had jack squat there last year save Bowe...

JASONSAUTO
08-07-2011, 10:30 AM
arian foster pulled his hamstring on his first day of camp


the whole league is out of football shape
I read somewhere it was his first carry. Damn...
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Mr. Laz
08-07-2011, 10:34 AM
Doesn't the knew CBA mean that every year is going to be the same as this year?

Teams can't practice until 15 days before the 1st preaseason game and can only be in pads X many times during a week.

Looks like to me that we are going to need all 4 preseason games just for the added practice.

Ace Gunner
08-07-2011, 10:50 AM
Lilja.

Hudson is working behind Wiegman at center.
Daryl Harris is working behind Lilja at LG.

thx. Darryl Harris slipped my mind.

suzzer99
08-07-2011, 11:02 AM
Doesn't the knew CBA mean that every year is going to be the same as this year?

Teams can't practice until 15 days before the 1st preaseason game and can only be in pads X many times during a week.

Looks like to me that we are going to need all 4 preseason games just for the added practice.

There will be OTAs and team-run conditioning though.

Coogs
08-07-2011, 11:07 AM
Harris also played Center before Wiegmann was allowed to play. I think that bodes well for him being on our 53 man roster when the season opens, and for our long term backup to all the interior O-line positions.

chiefzilla1501
08-07-2011, 12:06 PM
milkman said it


but that just proves once again that QB is the most important position, an nothing else is even close...if you don't have 'that' QB you are basically wasting time


good QBs can cover up for lots of holes....average QBs have to have everything perfect to even have a chance...

While true, it's a bit overstated because there are 32 teams in the NFL, and only 4 (Steelers/Pats/Colts/Packers) can really claim to have an "it" Quarterback that you know is going to give you a Super Bowl shot regardless of your injury situation.

Outside of those 4, there's not much difference between a good Quarterback team and a great one. The Chargers aren't more dominant than the Jets. The Falcons aren't any better than the Giants or Ravens. The Eagles and Cowboys aren't any better than the Bears.

So yeah, if you have a HOF calibre Quarterback, of course you have an enormous disadvantage. But for everybody beating on that drum... of course I think having a franchise QB is important, but I think asking for a QB like Rodgers is asking for a whole lot.

BossChief
08-07-2011, 12:12 PM
Whats wrong with asking for a lot, Zilla?

Rodgers and Cassel came in the league at the same time and sat for the same amount of time behind a future HOFer.

Its time for the kid to step into the group of quarterbacks a level above the group he played to the level of last year.

If his "intangibles" and his "work ethic" are what they are marketed as, that shouldn't be a problem, should it?

chiefzilla1501
08-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Whats wrong with asking for a lot, Zilla?

Rodgers and Cassel came in the league at the same time and sat for the same amount of time behind a future HOFer.

Its time for the kid to step into the group of quarterbacks a level above the group he played to the level of last year.

If his "intangibles" and his "work ethic" are what they are marketed as, that shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Oh yeah, trust me. I'm by no means satisfied with the QB situation. I know it won't be the case, but I wish this season was make it/break it for Cassel.

But you said "step into the group of quarterbacks a level above...." That's not Aaron Rodgers. He's in a class of 4 right now, and those guys are incredibly difficult to find. What I want right now is Eli Manning's class.

I'm just saying it's unreasonable to be angry because my team doesn't have their version of Aaron Rodgers. There are 28 teams who have the same problem, and it's not for lack of trying and in many cases, it's not because they don't have smart people running the show.

BossChief
08-07-2011, 12:36 PM
for us to win 9 or 10 games next year, he needs to play to the level of Matt Shaub.

Im not talking about stats, either. Im talking about the way Matt Shaub spreads the ball around and trusts himself to make plays whenn they are there to be made.

With the weapons Cassel has around him, that should be the minimal expectations for him.

Micjones
08-07-2011, 12:52 PM
I would argue that Verran Tucker is also a developmental guy.

I'd really like to see Tucker make the team.
He did some positive things last year. Kid deserves a shot.

the Talking Can
08-07-2011, 01:37 PM
While true, it's a bit overstated because there are 32 teams in the NFL, and only 4 (Steelers/Pats/Colts/Packers) can really claim to have an "it" Quarterback that you know is going to give you a Super Bowl shot regardless of your injury situation.

Outside of those 4, there's not much difference between a good Quarterback team and a great one. The Chargers aren't more dominant than the Jets. The Falcons aren't any better than the Giants or Ravens. The Eagles and Cowboys aren't any better than the Bears.

So yeah, if you have a HOF calibre Quarterback, of course you have an enormous disadvantage. But for everybody beating on that drum... of course I think having a franchise QB is important, but I think asking for a QB like Rodgers is asking for a whole lot.


Eli Manning, Ryan, Rivers....they aren't average QBs....Vick certainly didn't play like an average QB, etc...


try reading my post and not putting your words in it

I'll re-quote myself for your assistance

good QBs can cover up for lots of holes....average QBs have to have everything perfect to even have a chance...

BossChief
08-07-2011, 01:49 PM
I heard Philly, NO and Houston have pretty good QBs, too.

BossChief
08-07-2011, 01:53 PM
I'd really like to see Tucker make the team.
He did some positive things last year. Kid deserves a shot.

there is almost no chance Tucker doesn't make the team.

I think the kid will have a chance at putting up some good numbers when we run the spread formations.

He did alright against teams #2 corners, he should be able to win most matchups against teams #4 and 5 corners.

Especially if Haley has him continuing to develop his skills.

ChiefsCountry
08-07-2011, 01:53 PM
While true, it's a bit overstated because there are 32 teams in the NFL, and only 4 (Steelers/Pats/Colts/Packers) can really claim to have an "it" Quarterback that you know is going to give you a Super Bowl shot regardless of your injury situation.

Outside of those 4, there's not much difference between a good Quarterback team and a great one. The Chargers aren't more dominant than the Jets. The Falcons aren't any better than the Giants or Ravens. The Eagles and Cowboys aren't any better than the Bears.

So yeah, if you have a HOF calibre Quarterback, of course you have an enormous disadvantage. But for everybody beating on that drum... of course I think having a franchise QB is important, but I think asking for a QB like Rodgers is asking for a whole lot.

You should really quit posting about quarterbacks, bc frankly you don't have a clue.

HIChief
08-07-2011, 02:07 PM
I have a pretty good feeling that injuries are going to play a much larger part in this years SB champion. The team with the shortest injury list is probably going to win it all. Even though that's a safe bet most of the time, I'd go so far to say that it's a lock this year.

You mean like Green Bay did it last year?:doh!:

chiefzilla1501
08-07-2011, 02:10 PM
Eli Manning, Ryan, Rivers....they aren't average QBs....Vick certainly didn't play like an average QB, etc...
I never said they were average. You said that average QBs have to have a lot of luck and everything working perfectly to win a Super Bowl. Ryan and Rivers are terrific QBs. And I don't think anybody here thinks they have any more a chance of getting to a Super Bowl as an average QB like Flacco or Sanchez do.

The point I'm trying to make and it's a good one is that there are 5 elite QBs right now (Brady, Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers... sorry, miscounted last time) who can carry a team and be a legit Super Bowl team every single season. For the other 27 teams, you're overstating your point. Of course a QB is very important, but again, there is a huge difference between the QB play on the Falcons/Chargers vs. the Ravens/Jets. But in the playoffs, in most cases, I'll bet on the Ravens/Jets.


try reading my post and not putting your words in it

I'll re-quote myself for your assistance

I didn't read anything wrong. You were responding to milkman's comment about Aaron Rodgers carrying a team largely on IR. Aaron Rodgers is not a good QB. He's an elite QB.

chiefqueen
08-07-2011, 02:11 PM
They have 200 million reasons not to
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...........and every one has George's picture on it.

chiefzilla1501
08-07-2011, 02:16 PM
You should really quit posting about quarterbacks, bc frankly you don't have a clue.

Maybe you should start posting about quarterbacks, to prove that you do have a clue.

chiefzilla1501
08-07-2011, 02:24 PM
for us to win 9 or 10 games next year, he needs to play to the level of Matt Shaub.

Im not talking about stats, either. Im talking about the way Matt Shaub spreads the ball around and trusts himself to make plays whenn they are there to be made.

With the weapons Cassel has around him, that should be the minimal expectations for him.

Schaub is a pretty good example. I think if the Chiefs' defense and run offense improves dramatically, I think even a small upgrade like playing to Flacco/Sanchez level might be good enough.

I'm not disagreeing that Cassel obviously has huge room to improve or that Cassel of 2011 is going to make the Chiefs a long shot for the Super Bowl no matter what. I just disagree that he makes or breaks a winning season. I think average play from Cassel and major improvements on the defense/run offense could easily get the Chiefs 9-10 wins (followed by an early playoff exit).