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penguinz
08-08-2011, 09:20 AM
Looking at leasing a 2011 Camry. Any one have input on this model and year?

Phobia
08-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Think I heard something about the accelerator sticking.

Deberg_1990
08-08-2011, 10:16 AM
Solid car. Camry and Accords have been the best 4 door family sedans for awhile now. YOu really cant go wrong with either.

Dartgod
08-08-2011, 10:30 AM
I looked at the Camry and the Accord back in December and ended up choosing the Accord, but would have had no issue with the Camry had I gone that route.

Detoxing
08-08-2011, 10:32 AM
Don't know. But I just rented a '10 Corolla and absolutely hated driving it. It felt like a solid car build wise, but I drove it to Vegas and back and I couldn't shake how unstable and overly sensitive it felt.

Brock
08-08-2011, 10:41 AM
Have you got a death wish? Buy something safe!

penguinz
08-08-2011, 11:09 AM
Have you got a death wish? Buy something safe!I know the difference between the accelerator and the brake pedal so I do not think that is an issue.

BossChief
08-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Before you make your decision, I suggest you test drive a Nissan altima and an altima hybrid. I drive rental cars a week out of each month and I highly prefer the Altima to the Camry. It's a tad smaller inside though, so I'm not sure if it has the size you need from a car.

Altima hybrids are pretty affordable and get great gas mileage.

jiveturkey
08-08-2011, 11:21 AM
I have a friend that recently bought a Sonota. He loves it. It's also a bit smaller but you can't be the options for that price range.

Omaha
08-08-2011, 11:27 AM
My wife had a Camry until a fat bitch totaled it. It was a great car. She got an Accord after that. I think I like the Accord a smidge better, but that may just be because it's a better color. I'd recommend both.

FYI - I've never driven an Altima, but they look very nice, too.

LiveSteam
08-08-2011, 12:17 PM
I have a 2002 with 55,000. great car.

SuperChief
08-08-2011, 12:19 PM
My mom has had an Accord for over a decade - still gets great gas mileage and purs like a kitten. Honda does it right, for waht you're looking for.

Pants
08-08-2011, 12:46 PM
Get the Genesis.

Demonpenz
08-08-2011, 01:08 PM
Genesis drove wierd for me. Almost as if there was an invisible touch

Lzen
08-08-2011, 01:24 PM
Genesis drove wierd for me. Almost as if there was an invisible touch

ROFL

Lzen
08-08-2011, 01:27 PM
Camry or Accord are very solid, reliable cars. Get one if you like that bland sort of thing. We were recently looking at these.

http://www.kia.com/#/optima/explore/?cid=sem&ppc=y

Never owned a KIA, though. So I'm not sure about their reliability.

Brock
08-08-2011, 01:28 PM
Genesis drove wierd for me. Almost as if there was an invisible touch

I also noticed that the stereo annoyingly emphasizes the drums.

dilligaf
08-08-2011, 02:18 PM
I've sold cars most of my life. All brands. There are a lot of good choices out there. In my opinion Toyota or honda makes the best cars. They have different styles. Hondas are generally sportier while Toyotas are more comfy. Just my take on it. The Altima and Fusion are good choices as well. Hyundai is an up and coming company that builds good cars also now. And Kia is the same as Hyundai. The Toyota and Honda will hold their value better.

Dartgod
08-08-2011, 02:54 PM
I also noticed that the stereo annoyingly emphasizes the drums.
And don't even bother complaining to the dealer, because you'll get no reply at all.

aturnis
08-08-2011, 03:05 PM
Here's a little advice. NEVER LEASE A CAR! What kind of investment is that? You'll never ever own it. Might as well just give all of that money to me, you'd have the same to show for it...

Saulbadguy
08-08-2011, 03:12 PM
Here's a little advice. NEVER LEASE A CAR! What kind of investment is that? You'll never ever own it. Might as well just give all of that money to me, you'd have the same to show for it...

Oh boy.

penguinz
08-08-2011, 03:12 PM
Here's a little advice. NEVER LEASE A CAR! What kind of investment is that? You'll never ever own it. Might as well just give all of that money to me, you'd have the same to show for it...You can go fuck yourself for all I care. ;)

Pants
08-08-2011, 03:13 PM
Here's a little advice. NEVER LEASE A CAR! What kind of investment is that? You'll never ever own it. Might as well just give all of that money to me, you'd have the same to show for it...

Are you going to provide him with a brand new car of his choosing in the meantime?

Demonpenz
08-08-2011, 03:14 PM
I fill my balls up with cum once a month and only cum inside a pussy. That way I don't waste any on stupid mouths or tits. That is how I bought my house.. with CASH /David Ramsey

DanT
08-08-2011, 03:21 PM
I own a 2009 Chevy Malibu that I absolutely adore. I don't understand why anybody would want to lease a 2011 Camry over either a Malibu, an Accord, a Fusion or any of the other excellent cars in the midsize car segment. The Camry is a mediocre entry in that class, one that is riding on Toyota's well-earned reputation, but I would put much more weight on actual performance, safety and comfort than reputation, especially if I were leasing a car and not buying it.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-Cars/

DanT
08-08-2011, 03:29 PM
I own a 2009 Chevy Malibu that I absolutely adore. I don't understand why anybody would want to lease a 2011 Camry over either a Malibu, an Accord, a Fusion or any of the other excellent cars in the midsize car segment. The Camry is a mediocre entry in that class, one that is riding on Toyota's well-earned reputation, but I would put much more weight on actual performance, safety and comfort than reputation, especially if I were leasing a car and not buying it.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-Cars/

I should qualify my comments. If Toyota is willing to give you a good price, then of course it could be worth it. The two times I've dealt with Toyota dealers, they acted like they weren't interested in dealing because they knew they could get what they wanted to charge from somebody else.
I would definitely make the dealer aware, though, that you know that the Camry is not a top-in-the-class car and that you aren't going to lease it at a price that suggests that it is. If he wants to deal, that's one thing, but if he doesn't, then I would just leave and go get something else, from a dealer that appreciates the business.

tooge
08-08-2011, 03:37 PM
kind of difficult to put a deer or stringer of fish in the back, but I suppose if you can't have a truck, they are fine

penguinz
08-08-2011, 03:42 PM
kind of difficult to put a deer or stringer of fish in the back, but I suppose if you can't have a truck, they are fineI have an XJ for that. ;)

Infidel Goat
08-08-2011, 03:42 PM
I believe that Consumer Reports ranked the four-cylinder family sedans in this order (early 2011):

Nissan Altima
Hyundai Sonata
Toyota Camry
Subaru Legacy
Suzuki Kizashi
Kia Optima
Honda Accord

I'd consider any of the first four vehicles (though I actually bought a used 2010 Prius back in December--and smile every time I fill up with gas).

SenselessChiefsFan
08-08-2011, 03:43 PM
If you are leasing? Who cares? Honestly, the odds are that any car you lease these days will give you no problems for at least 60K.

Honda and Toyota make the best sedans on the market. The difference is that Toyota's feel more sloppy. They tend to ride softer and more plush, but you give up the stability and sure footed feeling of the honda.

Honda's handle great and most models seem to have better acceleration. I also think the overall fit and finish is better. But, both make high quality cars that will last for decades.

But, again, you are leasing a car. The majority of the time that you own the car, it will be under warranty. Just lease the one you like the best.

Deberg_1990
08-08-2011, 04:59 PM
I own a 2009 Chevy Malibu that I absolutely adore. I don't understand why anybody would want to lease a 2011 Camry over either a Malibu, an Accord, a Fusion or any of the other excellent cars in the midsize car segment. The Camry is a mediocre entry in that class, one that is riding on Toyota's well-earned reputation, but I would put much more weight on actual performance, safety and comfort than reputation, especially if I were leasing a car and not buying it.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-Cars/

ROFL comparing a Malibu to a Camry or Accord.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-08-2011, 05:00 PM
ROFL comparing a Malibu to a Camry or Accord.

I thought about posting the laughing smiley but I've been enough of an ass the last 24 hours lol

:p

Baconeater
08-08-2011, 05:24 PM
If you are leasing? Who cares? Honestly, the odds are that any car you lease these days will give you no problems for at least 60K.

Honda and Toyota make the best sedans on the market. The difference is that Toyota's feel more sloppy. They tend to ride softer and more plush, but you give up the stability and sure footed feeling of the honda.

Honda's handle great and most models seem to have better acceleration. I also think the overall fit and finish is better. But, both make high quality cars that will last for decades.

But, again, you are leasing a car. The majority of the time that you own the car, it will be under warranty. Just lease the one you like the best.
I pretty much agree with everything here...you're leasing it...who gives a fuck about long-term reliability or even resale value.

And yes, the Hondas do seem a bit more sportier and more nimble, the Accord we had was a freaking hoot to drive. The Camry has more of a big car feel, I suppose that's why old people like them. Just don't get one with the base 4 cyl (assuming they even offer that dog anymore), go for the 16V 4 cyl engine or a V6.

dilligaf
08-08-2011, 05:33 PM
ROFL comparing a Malibu to a Camry or Accord.

This...:doh!:

God of Thunder
08-08-2011, 05:45 PM
My parents have a 2011 camry. They absolutely love it.

DanT
08-08-2011, 07:17 PM
ROFL comparing a Malibu to a Camry or Accord.

To be accurate, I did not compare the Malibu to the Accord, although the US News link that I cited did. I compared the Malibu to the Camry. I will put my built-in-KC Malibu up against a Camry any day of the week. It was a better car in 2008 when I bought my 2009 model and it's still a better car, which is saying a lot because the Malibu has not had a major model revision since the 2009 model.

The US News ratings are very much driven by reputation. I don't dispute that the Camry has a better reputation than the Malibu. However, the US News ratings do not stop there. They also look at other factors, including safety, features, style and performance. On those factors, the Honda Accord is a better car than the Toyota Camry, and in the past couple of years the Malibu has been, as well.

The Camry has been riding it's reputation, but when folks take other factors into account, on average they see that the Camry has lately been nothing but a middle-of-the-pack performer in the midsize-car class.

DanT
08-08-2011, 07:42 PM
Actually, from a cost-to-lease standpoint, a good reputation leads to a higher residual value, which leads to a lower-cost lease, so it's a good thing for the Toyota Camry that it has such a great reputation. That's a big potential advantage for the Camry that I did not give its fair due. I would say, though, that you can't drive reputation, so if you do want to lease a Camry, you should make sure that you compare it to what you would get from other cars in the midsize class, which is full of great performers.

BossChief
08-08-2011, 08:14 PM
The Chevy Malibu is the 9th ranked entry level sedan in Consumer reports.

They only have 11 cars ranked.

Its also the second most expensive model in that class.

How is that a good buy?

ANSWER: its not.

Its the 2009 Matt Cassel of entry level sedans.

UteChief
08-08-2011, 08:56 PM
The 12 Camry will be out soon. I didn't read how soon you were looking but I'd wait. Why get a 5 year old car.

UteChief
08-08-2011, 08:58 PM
Sorry, the 12 model will be a new model. The 11 dates to 07. I don't think there are many issues with first year models for Honda and Toyota.

dilligaf
08-08-2011, 09:09 PM
That's why there are so many models to chose from. Everyone likes variety. Don't belive that...go read through the "Would you" thread in the pics section. Chubby ones, thin ones. Blondes, brunettes, reddheads. Drive what you like and #### everyone else.:thumb:

ClearmontChief
08-08-2011, 09:30 PM
ROFL comparing a Malibu to a Camry or Accord.

I couldn't agree more. I liked the looks of the Malibu, a lot. So, when I got some scheduled maintenance on my Camry I got a loaner of my choice. Picked a 2010 Malibu and drove it for a couple days. Was a decent car, but, absolutely paled in comparison to my Camry.

I put a lot of miles on my cars commuting to work. I had a 1999 Camry and drove it from 65,000 to 145,000 and thought I'd better trade it in. Was getting 32-35 mpg routinely. No problems, routine maintenance, breaks, etc.

I traded it for a 2004 Nissan Altima. The Altima was a nicer, roomier car. But, got 25-28 MPG, occasionally touching 30. I can't report any thing major about the Altima except I just really didn't like it. A bad hail storm expedited my decision to get rid of it.

So, about a month ago, I traded it in on a 2010 Toyota Camry SE. I LOVE IT! Best car I've ever owned. Smooth riding, quick and snappy...and, the SE model is very sharp and sporty. I'm back to 30 mpg routinely and love my Camry.

Like I said, while having the dealer do some routine maintenance, I drove their Malibu for a couple days. I HATED it compared to the Camry or Altima. Not a smooth riding, cheaply built appearing interior, gadgety.

Go with the Camry, you won't regret it.

evenfall
08-08-2011, 09:50 PM
The Camry hybrid is the best hybrid out there, it gets about 35 highway and doesn't cost many thousands more than the regular version. It's the best you can do without reducing yourself to a Prius.

The Fusion is a nice vehicle too. Of the domestic makes I would trust Ford above the other two. I admire their ability to both build worthy cars and make money.

DanT
08-08-2011, 10:23 PM
The Chevy Malibu is the 9th ranked entry level sedan in Consumer reports.

They only have 11 cars ranked.

Its also the second most expensive model in that class.

How is that a good buy?

ANSWER: its not.

Its the 2009 Matt Cassel of entry level sedans.

You didn't cite which article from the Consumer Reports you extracted your information from, but it doesn't match what I have. I am looking right now at the "Ratings" article in the April, 2011 issue of the Consumers Report. Are you looking at a different article?

In the "Sedans: Family Entry-Level" list, there are 10 cars listed, with the Chevy Malibu LT (4-cyl) listed as 8th best according to the "Overall Road Test" rating, which is the one that Consumer Reports uses for sorting their lists. The Entry-level Malibu's listed price of $23,585 is the fourth most expensive in that class. [The Altima 2.5 S (4 cyl), Legacy 2.5i Premium, Accord LX-P (4-cyl) are more expensive.] The Malibu is one of 8 cars in that high-quality field that is "Recommended" by Consumer Reports. I don't know which of the two LT trim levels for the Malibu the Consumer Reports rated, the LT-1 or the LT-2.

The second list is "Sedans: Family". In that list, there are 14 cars, with the Chevy Malibu LTZ (V6) ranked 8th best by the "Overall Road Test" rating and with its price listed as the 2nd least expensive--only the Toyota Prius IV is lower. The Malibu is one of the 12 cars in that high-quality field that is Recommended by Consumer Reports.

That latter field is the one that applies more to my Malibu. I have a V6 LT-2. The LT-2 trim level is intermediate between the LTZ trim and the LT-1 trim. When I bought my Chevy, I spent a bit of time comparing the various trim levels and I decided that the LT-2 trim (with a V6) was the better value for me. Still, even the LTZ comes in with one of the lowest "costs as tested" and turns in a very solid ranking in a very competitive segment.

Pertinent to the Camry discussion, the Camry LE (4-cyl.) evaluated in the "Entry-level" list had the 3rd best road test score and was the 5th most expensive. It was given scores of "Better than Average", "Average" and "Much better than average" on Predicted Reliability, Overall Satisfaction and Owner Cost, respectively. The Camry XLE (V6) evaluated in the "Sedans: Family" list had the 5th best road test and was the 6th most expensive. On the other criteria, it didn't fare as well relative to the Entry level Camry, getting scores of "Average", "Average" and "Better than Average" on Predicted Reliability, Overall Satisfaction and Owner Cost, respectively.

For the more expensive Camry, the XLE (V6), the favorable comments were listed as "Acceleration, transmission, quietness, ride and interior storage". The "Lows" were "Thigh support for some drivers, no folding rear seat on some trims." Notably, that Camry only turned in an "Average" rating for Overall Satisfaction (from surveys of owners), in a class where most of the cars--including the Malibu--got either "Above Average" or "Much Above Average" Owner Satisfaction ratings. The Toyota Camry Hybrid did get an "Above Average" Overall Satisfaction rating. Notably, there were three cars in the "Sedans: Family" class that got "Much Above Average"--all three were Ford Fusions!

Anyway, in answer to your question, BossChief, the Malibu is a good buy based on the Consumer Reports information I see in the April, 2011, issue. Both trim levels were recommended, both had better than average total cost-to-own ratings and the luxurious LTZ trim level that was evaluated in the "Sedans: Family" list turned in a very competitive score while scoring the 2nd least expensive in the list, even though the extra expense for the LTZ versus the LT-2 trim level are, in my opinion, for essentially cosmetic things that the more practically oriented Consumer Reports folks don't seem to value that highly. I don't know how the Malibu turns in a slightly lower score on "Overall Road Test" than the Camry, when the only pertinent "Low" listed for the Malibu is it's turning circle, while it's handling is called a "High", a trait that isn't even mentioned about the Camry. Based on my own experience with driving Malibus and rental-car Camries, I think the Malibu gives a better driving experience and I believe you'll find that opinion widely shared by folks who have driven both.

Also, I think it's notable that neither the Entry-level Camry nor the "Family Sedan" Camry XLE V6 got a better than "Average" Overall Owner Satisfaction rating, while the "Family Sedan" Malibu did. Anyway, like I said, I would put my Malibu LT2 (V6) up against the Camry. It drives better, has more features, is more comfortable and safer. For entry-level sedans, on the other hand, the Camry appears to be a better value than the entry-level Malibu, at least according to this Consumer Reports article.

Also, as a Chiefs fan, I'm pro-Cassell until I have a reason not to be. ;)

DanT
08-08-2011, 10:31 PM
For what it's worth, there's a big difference between a V6 Malibu and the 4-cylinder Malibu in terms of driving performance. Consumer Reports gives a driving test performance score of 83 to the former and 74 to the latter. I can understand why someone might think that a rental or loaner Malibu is a good but not great car, given this difference. The 4-cyl and 6-cyl Camries on the other hand were scored 84 and 87, respectively. The Accord gets a 80 and a 90 for its 4- and 6-cylinder entries, respectively.

burt
08-08-2011, 10:37 PM
Here's a little advice. NEVER LEASE A CAR! What kind of investment is that? You'll never ever own it. Might as well just give all of that money to me, you'd have the same to show for it...

You are a fucking idiot.

burt
08-08-2011, 10:38 PM
Camry or Accord are very solid, reliable cars. Get one if you like that bland sort of thing. We were recently looking at these.

http://www.kia.com/#/optima/explore/?cid=sem&ppc=y

Never owned a KIA, though. So I'm not sure about their reliability.

Kia has made leaps and bounds to become a very reliable vehicle.

Silock
08-08-2011, 10:40 PM
Personally, I think you'd be much better off buying a used Camry (3-4 years old with decent mileage) and saving some money.

That being said, it's a solid car.

burt
08-08-2011, 10:40 PM
I own a 2009 Chevy Malibu that I absolutely adore. I don't understand why anybody would want to lease a 2011 Camry over either a Malibu, an Accord, a Fusion or any of the other excellent cars in the midsize car segment. The Camry is a mediocre entry in that class, one that is riding on Toyota's well-earned reputation, but I would put much more weight on actual performance, safety and comfort than reputation, especially if I were leasing a car and not buying it.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-Cars/

Malibu is a great vehicle, but the door size is very small, causing larger people to hit their heads on the roof line. Not good for entry and exit. If I were 5' 5, I'd buy one.

burt
08-08-2011, 10:42 PM
ROFL comparing a Malibu to a Camry or Accord.

Why not?

burt
08-08-2011, 10:44 PM
I pretty much agree with everything here...you're leasing it...who gives a fuck about long-term reliability or even resale value.

And yes, the Hondas do seem a bit more sportier and more nimble, the Accord we had was a freaking hoot to drive. The Camry has more of a big car feel, I suppose that's why old people like them. Just don't get one with the base 4 cyl (assuming they even offer that dog anymore), go for the 16V 4 cyl engine or a V6.

Resale value determines residual, which impacts your payment.

burt
08-08-2011, 10:47 PM
The Chevy Malibu is the 9th ranked entry level sedan in Consumer reports.

They only have 11 cars ranked.

Its also the second most expensive model in that class.

How is that a good buy?

ANSWER: its not.

Its the 2009 Matt Cassel of entry level sedans.

Yeah, according to Consumer Reports and they fucking know everything....:doh!:

Baconeater
08-08-2011, 10:58 PM
Personally, I think you'd be much better off buying a used Camry (3-4 years old with decent mileage) and saving some money.

That being said, it's a solid car.
Hell yes, this. We bought our Camry when it was 5 yrs old for $10k. It originally stickered out over $25k. There's no way in hell anyone will ever convince me that it was $15k worth of better when it was new.

Baconeater
08-08-2011, 10:58 PM
Resale value determines residual, which impacts your payment.
Well I sir, are a fucking idiot then.

burt
08-08-2011, 11:00 PM
Well I sir, are a fucking idiot then.

Probably not, but maybe, just maybe, you haven't been selling cars for 24 years.

Baconeater
08-08-2011, 11:03 PM
And I love the criticism of GM's interiors...

Here's what the dash on our Camry looks like:

http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/38571507.jpg

Fuck, it's a giant blob of plastic with some gauges, vents and a radio stuck into it. Waaay stylish. :rolleyes:

burt
08-08-2011, 11:07 PM
And I love the criticism of GM's interiors...



I have now sold...Lexus, Toyota, Chevy, Ford, and Honda. I have found bright spots and lows for ALL OF THEM.

SenselessChiefsFan
08-08-2011, 11:08 PM
You are a ****ing idiot.

Spoken like a true car salesman.

burt
08-08-2011, 11:10 PM
Spoken like a true car salesman.

um.....thank you?? I am not saying that this vehicle or this vehicle is better.....actually, quite the opposite......

SenselessChiefsFan
08-08-2011, 11:14 PM
Resale value determines residual, which impacts your payment.

True, but the best deals on leases are typically incentivized by the manufacturer.

In some cases, these cars are not the ones with the highest resale values.

And, once the lease is set, the actual resale value makes no difference.

A finance company may anticipate that a car will have a great resale value, therefore, creating very low lease payments.

However, if they miscalculate, or the car gets poor publicity, then it doesn't affect the lease, or the lessee. It affects the lessor.

The positives on a lease is that it shifts all risk onto the lessor, or finance company.

SenselessChiefsFan
08-08-2011, 11:19 PM
um.....thank you?? I am not saying that this vehicle or this vehicle is better.....actually, quite the opposite......

Actually, you responded to the guy who said leasing was a poor 'investment'.

Of course, the reality, is that purchasing a new car (or leasing) is always a bad 'investment'. Unless you are buying used to flip, or a classic car to store away, all cars are poor 'investments'.

Personally, I don't buy new cars anymore, and I would never lease a car. It doesn't fit my lifestyle. I drive way too many miles.

But, if a person drives less than 20K a year, then leasing is often a better overall financial move than buying a brand new car.

Of course, buyin a three year old car and driving it till the wheels fall of is even better..... but still not an 'investment'.

Baconeater
08-08-2011, 11:25 PM
I have now sold...Lexus, Toyota, Chevy, Ford, and Honda. I have found bright spots and lows for ALL OF THEM.
Shit, we had our previous Camry for 4 years, and I had to replace both the alternator and starter on it, and I had to put new brake rotors on it twice (which was kinda my fault because I don't own a torque wrench, but that's never been an issue with any of my Dodges). Over the same time period I had a crappy old 94 Caravan that I didn't make one single repair to ever. Go figure.

Baconeater
08-08-2011, 11:26 PM
Actually, you responded to the guy who said leasing was a poor 'investment'.

Of course, the reality, is that purchasing a new car (or leasing) is always a bad 'investment'. Unless you are buying used to flip, or a classic car to store away, all cars are poor 'investments'.

Personally, I don't buy new cars anymore, and I would never lease a car. It doesn't fit my lifestyle. I drive way too many miles.

But, if a person drives less than 20K a year, then leasing is often a better overall financial move than buying a brand new car.

Of course, buyin a three year old car and driving it till the wheels fall of is even better..... but still not an 'investment'.
Fucking O' Reilly's always uses that word in their commercials...drives me nuts.

ThaVirus
08-08-2011, 11:46 PM
Love my Camry!.. It's an 03 though.

evenfall
08-09-2011, 12:03 AM
If you are leasing then who cares. They will all be reliable. If you're buying then get a Camry, accord, sonata

Saulbadguy
08-09-2011, 07:44 AM
You are a fucking idiot.

AGREED

Saulbadguy
08-09-2011, 07:45 AM
I'm partial to Nissan anymore. Honda/Toyota cars look boring to me.

Deberg_1990
08-09-2011, 07:49 AM
Kia has made leaps and bounds to become a very reliable vehicle.

The new Kia Optimas get great reviews and they look decent too. Hyundai and Kia have come a long way.

burt
08-09-2011, 01:06 PM
Actually, you responded to the guy who said leasing was a poor 'investment'.

Of course, the reality, is that purchasing a new car (or leasing) is always a bad 'investment'. Unless you are buying used to flip, or a classic car to store away, all cars are poor 'investments'.

Personally, I don't buy new cars anymore, and I would never lease a car. It doesn't fit my lifestyle. I drive way too many miles.

But, if a person drives less than 20K a year, then leasing is often a better overall financial move than buying a brand new car.

Of course, buyin a three year old car and driving it till the wheels fall of is even better..... but still not an 'investment'.

You appear to either be very wise, or very well informed. I drive a Mazda with 205,000 miles.

burt
08-09-2011, 01:09 PM
I'm partial to Nissan anymore. Honda/Toyota cars look boring to me.

Personal taste. I mostly agree, but if you want to sell hundreds of thousands of a particular model, the general consensus is to "bland it down" so there is less to dislike.

Saulbadguy
08-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Personal taste. I mostly agree, but if you want to sell hundreds of thousands of a particular model, the general consensus is to "bland it down" so there is less to dislike.

Kind of like Bud Light...

Deberg_1990
08-09-2011, 01:12 PM
I drive a Mazda with 205,000 miles.


Ive noticed alot of car salesmen drive old cars. Why is that? Dont you guys get good deals or are you just smarter than the rest of us?

Saulbadguy
08-09-2011, 01:16 PM
Ive noticed alot of car salesmen drive old cars. Why is that? Dont you guys get good deals or are you just smarter than the rest of us?

Probably because they are shitty salesman.

dilligaf
08-09-2011, 01:30 PM
A lot of us do drive older cars. The ones that do drive new usually lease them.

burt
08-09-2011, 03:53 PM
Probably because they are shitty salesman.

Maybe so, but I bought my car for $1350.00 3 years ago. Have repaired the muffler once, $20.00. Other than that, gas and oil. Sooooo, my "car payment" is less than $60.00 a month. Runs well, ac blows cold, power windows work, power sunroof works, power locks with remote works....

Yeah, I guess I am just a stupid, shitty salesman......:thumb:

Detoxing
08-09-2011, 04:27 PM
I don't understand all the Toyota/Honda love. I really don't. And I am not trying to be biased either.

Like I said, I just test rented a new Corolla and though the build quality felt good (It only had 20-something thousand miles on it, so it better feel good) it felt like any other car...but worse.

I really hated it. It's the first newer car that I actually hated driving.

1. The seat was too damn high up and sucked in comparison to my Firebird's 4-way electric adjustable seat.

2. The interior was very un inspiring and down right boring. Everything from the instrument cluster to the shitty plastics and ordinary materials screamed "meh". Anyone who tries to tell me that Toyota's interior materials are better than that of GM's or anyone elses is just being biased. Straight up. There was no difference. Still plastic everywhere just like every other new car. At leas the Ford Focus took time on there interior and made it look cool. The '10 Focus' interior smashes the Toyotas and it aint even close.

3. HATED the brakes. HATED them. They had no feel to them and they were overly sensitive. Through 18 hours + of driving, I never adjusted to them. I couldn't get comfortable in traffic or on the freeway because I had no idea what my brakes were going to do.

4. Ughhh....the Steering was terrible. Well, I should note that I loved the turning radius. It was very easy to manuever in the parking lot. The wheel felt very light. But that's about the extent of it. Hated it on the freeway. I mean, i was kinda afraid to manuever on the freeway because I had no Idea what the car would do. It felt unstable. Cars flying by would rock the thing, imperfections in the road would send it this way or that way.

I felt so uncomfortable in it. I was SOO disappointed.
I'm not going to sit here and call it a POS, but it's certainly not a drivers car. I felt so detached from it.

5. The stereo system sucked and the controls seemed out of reach considering how I had to adjust my seat.

Its exactly what I was hoping it wouldn't be......just a car.

But, hey! There weren't any rattles, that's a bonus, right? For what it cost to buy one of those things, there are a ton of other cars I'd rather have.

Cannibal
08-09-2011, 04:28 PM
The new Kia Optimas get great reviews and they look decent too. Hyundai and Kia have come a long way.

Agreed. I like the Optima's styling.

Detoxing
08-09-2011, 04:35 PM
Agreed. I like the Optima's styling.

I do too. It's a pretty cool looking car IMO.

I also like the Styling on the Altima and Accord Coupes as well.

Stewie
08-09-2011, 04:44 PM
I have an '07 Camry. The one that had the acceleration problems, etc. Best car I've ever owned. I traded in an Acura to buy it. I've had NO problems and have only done routine maintenance. I didn't do the recall BS because I don't have time for crap like that, and as it turned out it wasn't necessary.

As for the Corolla renter. I once drove a Malibu and figured a Corvette was a piece of shit.

Cannibal
08-09-2011, 04:46 PM
I do too. It's a pretty cool looking car IMO.

I also like the Styling on the Altima and Accord Coupes as well.

Agreed on the Altima as well.

vailpass
08-09-2011, 04:47 PM
I have an '07 Camry. The one that had the acceleration problems, etc. Best car I've ever owned. I traded in an Acura to buy it. I've had NO problems and have only done routine maintenance. I didn't do the recall BS because I don't have time for crap like that, and as it turned out it wasn't necessary.

As for the Corolla renter. I once drove a Malibu and figured a Corvette was a piece of shit.

Stay thirsty my friends.

Stewie
08-09-2011, 04:52 PM
Stay thirsty my friends.

I had my Camry for a long time when the recall happened. I bought mine in May '06. The first off the line with the biggest "problem." Funny how those "accidents" have disappeared, yet the recall only fixed about 60% of the Camrys. Hmm...

Detoxing
08-09-2011, 04:56 PM
I have an '07 Camry. The one that had the acceleration problems, etc. Best car I've ever owned. I traded in an Acura to buy it. I've had NO problems and have only done routine maintenance. I didn't do the recall BS because I don't have time for crap like that, and as it turned out it wasn't necessary.

As for the Corolla renter. I once drove a Malibu and figured a Corvette was a piece of shit.

I never made a claim about the Camry. I have no idea what the Camry feels like.

I was just stating my disappointment in the Corolla. For all the Toyota nut huggers there are that act like Toyota is the best thing to happen to the Auto industry, I was expecting a lot more, compact car or not.

All in all it was just another boring car that had absolutely no feel.

I understand that it's just a compact car and I wasn't expecting the world, but I was expecting much better then unpredictable steering and brakes and a boring interior. I felt much better in the Focus, and it's interior was alive, unlike the Corolla.

vailpass
08-09-2011, 04:58 PM
I had my Camry for a long time when the recall happened. I bought mine in May '06. The first off the line with the biggest "problem." Funny how those "accidents" have disappeared, yet the recall only fixed about 60% of the Camrys. Hmm...

Are you saying there wasn't really a problem with the toyota rice burners?

Stewie
08-09-2011, 05:02 PM
I never made a claim about the Camry. I have no idea what the Camry feels like.


Got it. Thanks for the comparison.

Detoxing
08-09-2011, 05:05 PM
Got it. Thanks for the comparison.

Where did I say I was making a comparison with the Camry? Where?

You're just another one of those biased butt hurt Toyota owners, clearly. God...you guys are worse then Apple nut huggers......

Stewie
08-09-2011, 05:07 PM
Are you saying there wasn't really a problem with the toyota rice burners?

There was none and it was proven. My Camry was among the 5000 that were scrutinized since it was first off the line and most susceptible. I declined the change/upgrade since I had no problems. I still have no problems five years later. Toyota monitored my car since I didn't make any changes, but they have since stopped.

Stewie
08-09-2011, 05:08 PM
Where did I say I was making a comparison with the Camry? Where?

You're just another one of those biased butt hurt Toyota owners, clearly. God...you guys are worse then Apple nut huggers......

I never figured out why you posted in a Camry thread about a Corolla. Who gives a shit about what you thing about a Corolla? And it was a rental! I abuse the hell out of rentals. And 20K? Where do you rent your cars?

Detoxing
08-09-2011, 05:09 PM
There was none and it was proven. My Camry was among the 5000 that were scrutinized since it was first off the line and most susceptible. I declined the change/upgrade since I had no problems. I still have no problems five years later. Toyota monitored my car since I didn't make any changes, but they have since stopped.

Just because it didn't happen to your car doesn't mean that it hasn't happened to others. Your logic is bad here.

But of course, Toyota can do no wrong, right?

Detoxing
08-09-2011, 05:11 PM
I never figured out why you posted in a Camry thread about a Corolla. Who gives a shit about what you thing about a Corolla?

Yeah..because a new Corolla wouldn't share ANY thing with a new Camry, right?

Your butt hurt is comical. You're getting all bent out of shape because i gave a not so great opinion on a Toyota ROFL

Stewie
08-09-2011, 05:13 PM
Yeah..because a new Corolla wouldn't share ANY thing with a new Camry, right?

Your butt hurt is comical. You're getting all bent out of shape because i gave a not so great opinion on a Toyota ROFL

I'm not butthurt at all. I have a solid car that has been nothing but golden. Toyota has gone out of their way to make sure I'm happy.

Brock
08-09-2011, 05:19 PM
Are you saying there wasn't really a problem with the toyota rice burners?

Consider it said by me.

Stewie
08-09-2011, 05:22 PM
Consider it said by me.

You mean like the gas tanks falling off 1.2 million Fords and that can cause fires? Now that's real.

The acceleration problem could never be reproduced. It was a money grab. Funny how nothing has ever happened since about '09, isn't it?

Brock
08-09-2011, 05:29 PM
You mean like the gas tanks falling off Fords and causing fires?

The acceleration problem could never be reproduced. It was a money grab. Funny how nothing has ever happened since about '09, isn't it?

It reminds me of how the media was telling me that my old chevy pickup was unsafe because the fuel tanks would explode in a side collision, and then faked an experiment on national TV to make it happen.

vailpass
08-09-2011, 05:48 PM
Consider it said by me.

I haven't looked into it at all; wouldn't own a roller skate car if you paid me.

What caused the accidents if not a defect in the car?

Brock
08-09-2011, 05:49 PM
I haven't looked into it at all; wouldn't own a roller skate car if you paid me.

What caused the accidents if not a defect in the car?

The same thing that causes most car accidents.

vailpass
08-09-2011, 05:50 PM
The same thing that causes most car accidents.

Do you have a fact-based response? "Most accidents" don't result in high dollar product recalls.
Again, I don't know anything beyond what was on the news.

Brock
08-09-2011, 05:51 PM
Do you have a fact-based response? "Most accidents" don't result in high dollar product recalls.

"Most accidents" don't have a media-driven panic surrounding them. The NHTSA came out and said these accidents were caused by driver error. Case closed.

vailpass
08-09-2011, 05:54 PM
"Most accidents" don't have a media-driven panic surrounding them. The NHTSA came out and said these accidents were caused by driver error. Case closed.

Case closed? Were there no hearings on this issue? Were there no fact findings that determined toyota was at fault? Weren't those roller skates found to be defective?

Brock
08-09-2011, 05:57 PM
Case closed? Were there no hearings on this issue? Were there no fact findings that determined toyota was at fault? Weren't those roller skates found to be defective?

There was a bunch of political theater conducted.

Anyway, if you want to read about it:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/07/breaking-nhtsa-blames-driver-error-for-toyota-unintended-acceleration/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/the-toyota-testimony-day-one-a-comedy-in-three-parts-act-one-the-expert-evidence/

vailpass
08-09-2011, 05:58 PM
There was a bunch of political theater conducted.

Anyway, if you want to read about it:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/07/breaking-nhtsa-blames-driver-error-for-toyota-unintended-acceleration/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/the-toyota-testimony-day-one-a-comedy-in-three-parts-act-one-the-expert-evidence/

Thanks.

dilligaf
08-09-2011, 06:54 PM
Case closed? Were there no hearings on this issue? Were there no fact findings that determined toyota was at fault? Weren't those roller skates found to be defective?

Our government sicked NASA scientists on the vehicles that supposedly had problems. The smartest men on the planet couldn't find any problems with the Toyota after 10 months of studying. The have been cleared.

burt
08-09-2011, 08:14 PM
Our government sicked NASA scientists on the vehicles that supposedly had problems. The smartest men on the planet couldn't find any problems with the Toyota after 10 months of studying. The have been cleared.

and for some reason..... the clearing part goes on page 11, not page 1.

Postal_clone
08-09-2011, 08:55 PM
I have a 05 Camry with 60K the only thing I dont like about it is it is BLACK.....otherwise Great car