PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Gretz: Now That Was Ugly


Tribal Warfare
08-13-2011, 10:52 AM
Commentary: Now That Was Ugly (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/commentary-now-that-was-ugly.html)
August 12, 2011 - Bob Gretz

From Arrowhead Stadium

Remember back in the days before the NFL ownersí lockout when Commissioner Roger Goodell was campaigning for only two pre-season games each year. His reasoning was the fans donít like the games that donít count.

The perfect piece of evidence to back the Commishís thought went down Friday at a deserted Arrowhead Stadium. The Chiefs said they sold 67,537 tickets for the game against Tampa Bay. If thatís true, very few of those seat holders bothered to even make the drive to the Truman Sports Complex. Think more along the lines of 30,000 to 35,000 butts in the seats. If they stayed home to watch on TV, I guarantee they found something else to entertain them at about 7:30, or 20 minutes after it all got started.

The fans didnít care and the Chiefs didnít care. It seemed only the Buccaneers found anything redeeming in taking part in the evening. Maybe that was due to Josh Freemanís homecoming to Kansas City. Maybe it was because the Bucs won 10 games last year and did not make the playoffs. Whatever the reason, Tampa Bay won easily 25-0, even though the tape of the game will not be on the way to Canton, Ohio anytime soon.

The way things went down, it probably would have been better for the Chiefs if they had just stayed up at Missouri Western in the Joe and had a walkthrough and a padded practice among themselves. Iím sure as Todd Haley and his staff grinds its way through the tape of this Walk of the Living Dead remake on Saturday, they will find something of value. It just wasnít evident on Friday night.

And to think, some poor sap paid as much as $285 per ticket in the club level for an evening that turned out to be one of the crappiest games thatís been staged at Arrowhead over the last 40 seasons. Those fans should immediately sue the NFL and the Chiefs for bait and switch, false advertising or whatever a building full of lawyers can find in the law books for calling something professional football and then presenting what was on display this evening.

Believe me, if a grand jury was called and the evidence of the evening was presented, there would be criminal charges filed for impersonating a football team and a football game.

In the pre-game warm-up session, the Chiefs had all 88 of their players dressed and stretching and running and getting ready for the game. But for many in that group of 88, the calisthenics and stretching was the only sweat they would work up. Hali-Johnson-Flowers-Carr-Dorsey-Wiegmann-Moeaki-Charles-Breaston did not see the field. QB Matt Cassel handled the ball eight times. He fumbled once, and handed off the other seven times. One of those ended up being fumbled away by RB Jackie Battle.

I mean seriously, nobody was expecting much to begin with. No off-season because of the lockout, a short training camp with limited actual football taking place and a desire to physically protect players from injury was always going to make for limited excitement. Thatís understood.

But in limited window to get ready for the 2011 regular season, the Chiefs failed to show any enthusiasm for the task at hand. Half of the operation was clocking in because they had to be there. The other half were trying not to miss an opportunity to continue their career in pro football for a few more days or weeks.

Last time I looked, the Kansas City Chiefs do not have last Februaryís Vince Lombardi Trophy in their possession. They are a worst to first operation that faces a much tougher schedule in the 2011 season. They have a roster with many talented young players and a roster that still has holes. At no point should any opportunity to improve be forsaken and that goes for any part of the roster.

It was forsaken Friday night. In the big picture, does it mean anything? Probably not; thereís time to make up for this stinker. But why waste everybodyís time?

Last month, Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt showed his benevolent side by returning the money he took from his employeesí paychecks because of the lockout. If he wants an opportunity to really show his magnanimous side, he should return the money paid for every ticket to what happened Friday night.

It wasnít a game. It wasnít professional. It wasnít even an event.

It was a waste of time.

ForeverChiefs58
08-13-2011, 11:13 AM
I couldn't argue with any of that.

I guess Cassel didn't need any actual throws in the game. I wonder how they think he doesn't need it?

It really was a big waste of time.

milkman
08-13-2011, 11:16 AM
Tripe

KC Tattoo
08-13-2011, 11:30 AM
I couldn't argue with any of that.

I guess Cassel didn't need any actual throws in the game. I wonder how they think he doesn't need it?

It really was a big waste of time.

We were ranked number one in rushing and 30th in passing last year. Would of been nice to see him make an attempt to throw the ball and get it out there. It's hard to get better at something you don't do at all, in a preseason game there is nothing to lose by trying. If any thing to help the WRs get a chance to do something too.

Direckshun
08-13-2011, 11:36 AM
Gretz brought the thunder. My goodness.

milkman
08-13-2011, 11:40 AM
We were ranked number one in rushing and 30th in passing last year. Would of been nice to see him make an attempt to throw the ball and get it out there. It's hard to get better at something you don't do at all, in a preseason game there is nothing to lose by trying. If any thing to help the WRs get a chance to do something too.

If Cassel is going to get better, it's going to be because of the work he does in practice and in the film room with Jim Zorn, not the work he does in preseason game.

The Chiefs have really practiced light compared to what I've heard of other teams.

Haley is trying to prepare this team at a slower pace to keep them healthy.

At the start of the regular season, the healthiest teams will likely have the advantage.

This season, more than many others, will probably be a battle of attrition.

Molitoth
08-13-2011, 12:00 PM
Wow coming from Gretz.
Fantastic article.

Deberg_1990
08-13-2011, 12:05 PM
And to think, some poor sap paid as much as $285 per ticket in the club level

Holy cow, i hope nobody paid that?

Deberg_1990
08-13-2011, 12:07 PM
If Cassel is going to get better, it's going to be because of the work he does in practice and in the film room with Jim Zorn, not the work he does in preseason game.

The Chiefs have really practiced light compared to what I've heard of other teams.

Haley is trying to prepare this team at a slower pace to keep them healthy.

At the start of the regular season, the healthiest teams will likely have the advantage.

This season, more than many others, will probably be a battle of attrition.

Agreed......this is one the biggest Myths out there. That preseason games actually are valuable. They hold some value, but not much. I honestly think its more of a backdoor way for teams to make more money.

Barret
08-13-2011, 12:08 PM
Is Gretz always this much of a fucking tool?

1: It was a preseason game where Haley doesn't want to get any starters hurt.
2: It was a preseason game where they need to look at 2nd, 3rd and 4th stringers to see if there is anything worth keeping around. I am sure tape will be viewed.
3: Did I mention already that IT WAS A FUCKING PRESEASON GAME???

So Coach Gretz, with all your Football skill and knowledge, what would you have done differently for this preseason game so that those of us that happen to read your bullshit can rip it apart.

If Bob Gretz wants an opportunity to really show his magnanimous side, he should return the money paid for the internet bandwidth wasted reading his crap.

milkman
08-13-2011, 12:12 PM
Agreed......this is one the biggest Myths out there. That preseason games actually are valuable. They hold some value, but not much. I honestly think its more of a backdoor way for teams to make more money.

I didn't say that preseason games don't have any value.

The value in a preseason game is that it separates the bubble players.

Deberg_1990
08-13-2011, 12:14 PM
I didn't say that preseason games don't have any value.

The value in a preseason game is that it separates the bubble players.

Yea pretty much. Most of the starters are set, so yes to the 3 or 4 true bubble players, it holds some value.

InChiefsHell
08-13-2011, 12:17 PM
Well, it WAS ugly. I don't think anyone expected it to be THAT ugly. But in retrospect, I don't have a problem with it. Haley and Co. are doing what they think is right, and so what if other teams are pulling out more stuff in preseason than we did last night? The objective was not to win, rather to get the damn thing overwith injury free.

...mission accomplished.

suzzer99
08-13-2011, 12:17 PM
Holy cow, i hope nobody paid that?

Season ticket holders have to right? That's why my uncle gave up his 4 front-row club level tickets after the renovation :(

bobbything
08-13-2011, 12:21 PM
Is Gretz always this much of a ****ing tool?

1: It was a preseason game where Haley doesn't want to get any starters hurt.
2: It was a preseason game where they need to look at 2nd, 3rd and 4th stringers to see if there is anything worth keeping around. I am sure tape will be viewed.
3: Did I mention already that IT WAS A ****ING PRESEASON GAME???

So Coach Gretz, with all your Football skill and knowledge, what would you have done differently for this preseason game so that those of us that happen to read your bullshit can rip it apart.

If Bob Gretz wants an opportunity to really show his magnanimous side, he should return the money paid for the internet bandwidth wasted reading his crap.
His gripe is primarily with the front office, knowing full-well that Haley had no intention of putting anything out there resembling a pro football product, yet they still charged full price for it. And I agree 100% with him.

I don't care that the team had checked out before the "game" even started. But you can't charge what they do for it. It's a joke.

Even though the preseason games are worthless (for the most part), that was the most uninspired, tepid, horrible display of football I've ever seen from a professional team. Even for a practice it was dogsh*t.

ForeverChiefs58
08-13-2011, 12:25 PM
Would have liked to have seen the starting OL in some pass protection and having our starting QB, who needs all the work he can get, throw to some of his new toys. I didn't expect much from the first presseason game, but I did expect at least a series, ya know like the other team did on the road for their first preseason game. Zero throwing attempts was a let down.

Halfcan
08-13-2011, 12:27 PM
I couldn't argue with any of that.

I guess Cassel didn't need any actual throws in the game. I wonder how they think he doesn't need it?

It really was a big waste of time.

Preseason or not-you NEVER let another team come into Your house and embarass you like that-PATHETIC!!

ForeverChiefs58
08-13-2011, 12:31 PM
It is also why IMO they should have these "preseason practice games" in camp, cut the preseason in half and add two more regular season games like they had talked about. Games are meant for the fans, and I can't imagine paying full price, plus some flew in had hotel etc, for that game last night. Would rather have watched them scrimage another team in practice for nothing.

BigMeatballDave
08-13-2011, 12:35 PM
Preseason or not-you NEVER let another team come into Your house and embarass you like that-PATHETIC!!Yeah, it's preseason. I don't care.

BigMeatballDave
08-13-2011, 12:37 PM
We go through this same old song and dance every fucking preseason. Wash the sand out.

JohnnyV13
08-13-2011, 12:38 PM
This is Clark Hunt's plan to win fan support for the 18 game season: make the preseason so execrable, that public pressure forces DeMaurice to give it up.

milkman
08-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Preseason or not-you NEVER let another team come into Your house and embarass you like that-PATHETIC!!

I'm with ya!

Looking good in a meaningless preseason game is far more important than protecting your player's health on a team with questionable depth in key areas.

Mr. Laz
08-13-2011, 12:43 PM
i think the players would learn more by being competitive than playing like complete shit.

maybe Haley was having trouble with motivation so he decided to let them see what was really up.

Deberg_1990
08-13-2011, 12:44 PM
Has anyone commented on how good Thomas Jones looked? That was a positive right?

Messier
08-13-2011, 12:45 PM
In describing who was on the field, and what the game plan was, I find it hard to believe anyone is angry. You can be angry that they charge full price for what Haley clearly saw as a player evaluation, but that's not the coaches fault.

Gretz was a Peterson company man, and if Carl were still here this article would have been much different.

cabletech94
08-13-2011, 12:45 PM
I'm with ya!

Looking good in a meaningless preseason game is far more important than protecting your player's health on a team with questionable depth in key areas.

i see what you did there.:LOL:

Halfcan
08-13-2011, 12:45 PM
I'm with ya!

Looking good in a meaningless preseason game is far more important than protecting your player's health on a team with questionable depth in key areas.

I Never said play our starters the whole game-but it was obvious the chiefs did not even want to be there-that comes from the Coach.

How can they even evaluate when they did not even give full effort?

TB wanted to send a message-they were Prepared, Played hard, showed No mercy and looked like Pro's.

It was like watching the Longest Yard- the Bucs were cheap shotting us all night-and we took it like biatches.

ForeverChiefs58
08-13-2011, 12:46 PM
I'm with ya!

Looking good in a meaningless preseason game is far more important than protecting your player's health on a team with questionable depth in key areas.

Yeah, I believe Tampa made it out of Arrowhead healthy and they looked a lot better doing it. Of course they aren't scared to let Freeman drop back to pass either.

gblowfish
08-13-2011, 12:49 PM
I missed the first half of the game to a family obligation last night. But saw the second half. All I can say is:
Good: We had no penalties and no major injuries.
Bad: 1-10 on 3rd down. 4 fumbles. Gave up 6 sacks.
Really Bad: Scored zero points.
Really Good: I sold all my pre-season tickets so I didn't have to pay to watch that crap.

milkman
08-13-2011, 12:49 PM
I Never said play our starters the whole game-but it was obvious the chiefs did not even want to be there-that comes from the Coach.

How can they even evaluate when they did not even give full effort?

TB wanted to send a message-they were Prepared, Played hard, showed No mercy and looked like Pro's.

It was like watching the Longest Yard- the Bucs were cheap shotting us all night-and we took it like biatches.

Who didn't give full effort?

You are overreacting to a meaningless game in a preseason unlike any other you have seen, and will likely never see again.

I am absolutely certain that the coach's tape will offer numerous opportunities to evaluate individual players.

Messier
08-13-2011, 12:53 PM
Yeah, I believe Tampa made it out of Arrowhead healthy and they looked a lot better doing it. Of course they aren't scared to let Freeman drop back to pass either.

The Bucks played their starters well into the second quarter. Would you say they were more likely to lose some key players than the Chiefs who played Quinten Lawrence and Jackie Battle most of the game? The fact they didn't is irrelevant.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 12:53 PM
I'm going to make myself perfectly clear: I don't care that we lost, nor do I care about the score.

But with that said...

All 32 teams are operating on the same short offseason. All 32 teams are looking to avoid injuries. It's Week 1 of the preseason for all 32 teams.

Yet we're the only team I've seen or read about as treating this like a scrimmage.

We're very lucky that we came out of this game without any injuries, considering the half-ass pace we played at. If you want to avoid injuries, don't play at the pace of a controlled scrimmage while the other team is playing all out. And sure as shit don't put guys like Cassel and JC out there to just go through the motions.

Tampa did everything better than we did last night, all on the same amount of practice time - they were quicker, they were crisper, the were more physical - they treated it like a game. We didn't.

What did we gain from even taking the field last night? Does anyone expect the coaching staff to be able to truly evaluate play when we treat a game like a practice and the other team is, you know, actually playing the game?

Hell, that was ugly even for a practice.

milkman
08-13-2011, 12:54 PM
Yeah, I believe Tampa made it out of Arrowhead healthy and they looked a lot better doing it. Of course they aren't scared to let Freeman drop back to pass either.

Yes, they did make it out healthy apparently.

However, it's still a risk that one has to decide whether it's worth it.

Raheem Morris thought it was a worthy risk.

Todd Haley didn't, and given some of the injuries that have come out the camps so far, I think Haley made the smart choice.

KC Tattoo
08-13-2011, 12:55 PM
If Cassel is going to get better, it's going to be because of the work he does in practice and in the film room with Jim Zorn, not the work he does in preseason game.

The Chiefs have really practiced light compared to what I've heard of other teams.

Haley is trying to prepare this team at a slower pace to keep them healthy.

At the start of the regular season, the healthiest teams will likely have the advantage.

This season, more than many others, will probably be a battle of attrition.

Preseason allows that with a different team to oppose rather than same thing in practice. Providing new things to work on for the next week of practice and prepare for the next weeks game to show some improvement.

I understand the preventing measures of injuries, can't play scared at the same time or hold a player back from much needed getting into a rythm with WRs. Preseason is important for player development and Cassel is no different, he has not got the passing game built into his arsinal. If it wearn't for our running game last year we would have been screwed. Big difference with number one rushing attack vs 30th passing in the league. Cassel needs to show that he can deliver the goods or what good is he? Good job Cassel handing off the ball that's what he is good for.

evenfall
08-13-2011, 12:57 PM
Speaking of preventing injuries, I am totally ok with them walking through this one a bit. The last thing we need with our schedule is a bunch of out of shape players going full bore in a meaningless game.

Old Dog
08-13-2011, 01:02 PM
Is Gretz always this much of a fucking tool?

1: It was a preseason game where Haley doesn't want to get any starters hurt.
2: It was a preseason game where they need to look at 2nd, 3rd and 4th stringers to see if there is anything worth keeping around. I am sure tape will be viewed.
3: Did I mention already that IT WAS A FUCKING PRESEASON GAME???

So Coach Gretz, with all your Football skill and knowledge, what would you have done differently for this preseason game so that those of us that happen to read your bullshit can rip it apart.

If Bob Gretz wants an opportunity to really show his magnanimous side, he should return the money paid for the internet bandwidth wasted reading his crap.

Are you really an idiot or do you just play one on the internet? He's not talking about Haley, he's writing about the meaningless preseason BS in general. And he's correct.

Mr. Laz
08-13-2011, 01:02 PM
Preseason allows that with a different team to oppose rather than same thing in practice. Providing new things to work on for the next week of practice and prepare for the next weeks game to show some improvement.

I understand the preventing measures of injuries, can't play scared at the same time or hold a player back from much needed getting into a rythm with WRs. Preseason is important for player development and Cassel is no different, he has not got the passing game built into his arsinal. If it wearn't for our running game last year we would have been screwed. Big difference with number one rushing attack vs 30th passing in the league. Cassel needs to show that he can deliver the goods or what good is he? Good job Cassel handing off the ball that's what he is good for.
Tampa Bay is just as young etc as we are

So the Tampa Bay players either did a better job of staying in shape themselves or they have done a better job of prepping them in TC.

whichever ... i don't care about the score, but we looked pathetic and there is no excuse.

milkman
08-13-2011, 01:02 PM
I'm going to make myself perfectly clear: I don't care that we lost, nor do I care about the score.

But with that said...

All 32 teams are operating on the same short offseason. All 32 teams are looking to avoid injuries. It's Week 1 of the preseason for all 32 teams.

Yet we're the only team I've seen or read about as treating this like a scrimmage.

We're very lucky that we came out of this game without any injuries, considering the half-ass pace we played at. If you want to avoid injuries, don't play at the pace of a controlled scrimmage while the other team is playing all out. And sure as shit don't put guys like Cassel and JC out there to just go through the motions.

Tampa did everything better than we did last night, all on the same amount of practice time - they were quicker, they were crisper, the were more physical - they treated it like a game. We didn't.

What did we gain from even taking the field last night? Does anyone expect the coaching staff to be able to truly evaluate play when we treat a game like a practice and the other team is, you know, actually playing the game?

Hell, that was ugly even for a practice.

By all reports I've heard, the Chiefs were the last team to actually implement contact drills in camp.

They are also the team that has had the least amout of injuries in camp.

I'll worry about the team's performance when the regular season starts.

Halfcan
08-13-2011, 01:05 PM
Who didn't give full effort?

You are overreacting to a meaningless game in a preseason unlike any other you have seen, and will likely never see again.

I am absolutely certain that the coach's tape will offer numerous opportunities to evaluate individual players.

The Offensive line.

I was Not overreacting to anything-just failed to see the logic in letting a team come in and stomp you in the ground-hit our QB out of bounds and embarass you in front of Paying fans??

25-0

Halfcan
08-13-2011, 01:08 PM
I'm going to make myself perfectly clear: I don't care that we lost, nor do I care about the score.

But with that said...

All 32 teams are operating on the same short offseason. All 32 teams are looking to avoid injuries. It's Week 1 of the preseason for all 32 teams.

Yet we're the only team I've seen or read about as treating this like a scrimmage.

We're very lucky that we came out of this game without any injuries, considering the half-ass pace we played at. If you want to avoid injuries, don't play at the pace of a controlled scrimmage while the other team is playing all out. And sure as shit don't put guys like Cassel and JC out there to just go through the motions.

Tampa did everything better than we did last night, all on the same amount of practice time - they were quicker, they were crisper, the were more physical - they treated it like a game. We didn't.

What did we gain from even taking the field last night? Does anyone expect the coaching staff to be able to truly evaluate play when we treat a game like a practice and the other team is, you know, actually playing the game?

Hell, that was ugly even for a practice.

:thumb:

milkman
08-13-2011, 01:14 PM
The Offensive line.

I was Not overreacting to anything-just failed to see the logic in letting a team come in and stomp you in the ground-hit our QB out of bounds and embarass you in front of Paying fans??

25-0

Once again, you are talking about a team that came in playing their first string against this team's 2nd string.

We are, or should be aware, that this team's depth is questionable, so seeing our second team getting it's assed kicked by their first team is not a cause of major concern for me.

My concern is getting into the regular season healthy.

This team's lack of depth ghas been a concern for some time.

This game should give Haley and the staff a chance to look at an individual or two that might have some ability to help this team long term.

KC Tattoo
08-13-2011, 01:20 PM
Tampa Bay is just as young etc as we are

So the Tampa Bay players either did a better job of staying in shape themselves or they have done a better job of prepping them in TC.

whichever ... i don't care about the score, but we looked pathetic and there is no excuse.

I can care less about the score of a preseason game. Would like to see a good drive from the starters then get off the field. Just helps with building confidence in the players we got to go with. On defense want them to get a stop before the other team drives the ball down there throats and then get off the field. At least for openers that's what I'd like to see happen out of our team. Show some moxy out there that we are the team to beat and then let the reserves get there shining moments to prove them selves, or not.

We shall see if Haleys tactic to hold back the starters this game pays off. The pressure is on to showcase a team worth watching for fans to want to go to Arrowhead for this next season.

I do believe we are and will be a better team than what was shown last night.

philfree
08-13-2011, 01:22 PM
By all reports I've heard, the Chiefs were the last team to actually implement contact drills in camp.

They are also the team that has had the least amout of injuries in camp.

I'll worry about the team's performance when the regular season starts.


Haley has done a good job coaching this team up till now but his approach to this preseason is looking a little questionable. I hope he's not over reacting to the whole conditioning thing.

It's time to turn up the intensity IMO.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 01:31 PM
By all reports I've heard, the Chiefs were the last team to actually implement contact drills in camp.

They are also the team that has had the least amout of injuries in camp.

I'll worry about the team's performance when the regular season starts.

Being healthy come Week 1 is important, but so is being prepared.

There will be a lot of teams that will be both come September 11th.

We have a ton of work to do if we're going to be one of those teams.

milkman
08-13-2011, 01:34 PM
Haley has done a good job coaching this team up till now but his approach to this preseason is looking a little questionable. I hope he's not over reacting to the whole conditioning thing.

It's time to turn up the intensity IMO.

I think Haley's focus is having this team ready for the strat of the regular season, but I would expect that is he will be turning up the intensity this week.

stevieray
08-13-2011, 01:36 PM
History has shown that where the fanbase thinks the team is and where Haley thinks the team is have have been pretty different...the lockout definitely hampered full preperation for the regular season, each coach is going to approch it in his own manner. this is where coaches really have to step up to cover the slack.

that said, last night was like going to the mall and watching a boring movie.

MIAdragon
08-13-2011, 01:42 PM
History has shown that where the fanbase thinks the team is and where Haley thinks the team is have have been pretty different...the lockout definitely hampered full preperation for the regular season, each coach is going to approch it in his own manner. this is where coaches really have to step up to cover the slack.

that said, last night was like going to the mall and watching a boring movie.

Im waiting to get blown out our first game or two and hear "Well its really like the last few Preseason games during a normal year so its no big deal".

Deberg_1990
08-13-2011, 01:42 PM
I'll never understand why a lot of fans get worked up over what happens in preseason games?

philfree
08-13-2011, 01:44 PM
I think Haley's focus is having this team ready for the strat of the regular season, but I would expect that is he will be turning up the intensity this week.

We have two preseason games to get the intensity up because we all know the last preseason game we won't play our starters much. It's time to get the 1st string going or I don't think they'll be ready for the opener.

RedThat
08-13-2011, 01:45 PM
If Cassel is going to get better, it's going to be because of the work he does in practice and in the film room with Jim Zorn, not the work he does in preseason game.

The Chiefs have really practiced light compared to what I've heard of other teams.

Haley is trying to prepare this team at a slower pace to keep them healthy.

At the start of the regular season, the healthiest teams will likely have the advantage.

This season, more than many others, will probably be a battle of attrition.

Im not a big fan of his approach. To me, that is a sign of fear.

Last nights game gave me every indication to believe that depth is an integral part of a football roster. If Pioli constantly emphasizes to have the "right 53" than to me that means you should have solid backups in place to replace your starters as insurance policies in case they get hurt.

I know its preseason right now, and the games are meaningless, but it seems like every year we have the shittiest backups in the league.

Sure having healthy starters is important, but having good depth is equally just as important. Preserving your starters to keep them healthy is one thing, preparation is another. Lack of preparation may be the consequence behind his decision? The question is, will we be prepared for this upcoming season?

*That is the main concern for me

Halfcan
08-13-2011, 01:47 PM
All the years I coached it was always "Practice how you Play"

If you have a lax I dont give a crap practice-then its hard to get the players to turn it up so many notches and give a great game day effort. So I hope Haley turns it up=WAY up!!

milkman
08-13-2011, 01:48 PM
We have two preseason games to get the intensity up because we all know the last preseason game we won't play our starters much. It's time to get the 1st string going or I don't think they'll be ready for the opener.

This preseason is unlike any other, and I would not be surprised to see Haley give the starters more time in the 4th game than we are accustomed to seeing.

philfree
08-13-2011, 01:51 PM
This preseason is unlike any other, and I would not be surprised to see Haley give the starters more time in the 4th game than we are accustomed to seeing.

He could but I don't know that it would jive with his goal of starting the season with all the players/starters being healthy.

milkman
08-13-2011, 01:52 PM
Im not a big fan of his approach. To me, that is a sign of fear.

Last nights game gave me every indication to believe that depth is an integral part of a football roster. If Pioli constantly emphasizes to have the "right 53" than to me that means you should have solid backups in place to replace your starters as insurance policies in case they get hurt.

I know its preseason right now, and the games are meaningless, but it seems like every year we have the shittiest backups in the league.

Sure having healthy starters is important, but having good depth is equally just as important. Preserving your starters to keep them healthy is one thing but there may be a consequence to that, and it could well be lack of preparation? The question is, will we be prepared for this upcoming season?

*That is the main concern for me

Well.......duh.

Holy crap.

Of course depth is important, and that game last night will give Haly a chance to see where this team is.

But, if you do have a lack of depth, then you damn well better do everything in your power to preserve the health of your starters.

keg in kc
08-13-2011, 01:52 PM
Being healthy come Week 1 is important, but so is being prepared.

There will be a lot of teams that will be both come September 11th.

We have a ton of work to do if we're going to be one of those teams.Last night's game would have had very little relevance when it comes to preparation for the season opener regardless of what they did. I agree with milkman that they're probably doing the smart thing, getting starters and older vets through it healthy, and getting longer looks at the players who'll be competing for the back-up spots.

As far as conditioning goes, I've heard a lot of people the last 12 hours talking about that, but I don't think it's about what kind of shape they're in, it's what kind of football shape they're in. It's not about how much they can do on the treadmill or the bike; they haven't had contact all summer, and that's while you're seeing random stuff like Okung going down on Thursday in the first series against the Chargers while he was simply holding a block. That's the kind of stuff they're (hopefully) avoiding by introducing contact at such a conservative pace. That doesn't mean there won't be injuries, of course, but it might help lower the odds. But that's more of a comment on camp in general than it is last night's game.

My guess is that we won't see the same approach next Friday against Baltimore, that they'll be more competitive on the field with more of the starters playing, and all of them playing for a longer time, but that's only a guess. Although, as far as preparation goes, I would say practices are a much, much greater part of that than anything that'll happen on the field during any of the preseason games, with the exception of the rookie players who are seeing NFL speed for the first time (and preseason games generally aren't even at real game speed).

Which of course doesn't mean you want to see the same kind of lackluster performance as last night all preseason. I'm sure the staff wants them looking better just as much as we do. A lot of the problems in that game, the tackling, the returning, the blocking, would be inexcusable no matter what the situation. And I have a feeling that point might be made a time or three (hundred) this week.

Smed1065
08-13-2011, 02:03 PM
Im not a big fan of his approach. To me, that is a sign of fear.

Last nights game gave me every indication to believe that depth is an integral part of a football roster. If Pioli constantly emphasizes to have the "right 53" than to me that means you should have solid backups in place to replace your starters as insurance policies in case they get hurt.

I know its preseason right now, and the games are meaningless, but it seems like every year we have the shittiest backups in the league.

Sure having healthy starters is important, but having good depth is equally just as important. Preserving your starters to keep them healthy is one thing, preparation is another. Lack of preparation may be the consequence behind his decision? The question is, will we be prepared for this upcoming season?

*That is the main concern for me

You have to start somewhere and the starters are where you start, IMO.

I mean what 3 years ago we had the least talent on starters and now what?

Its a process! :p

Okie_Apparition
08-13-2011, 02:05 PM
I Never said play our starters the whole game-but it was obvious the chiefs did not even want to be there-that comes from the Coach.

How can they even evaluate when they did not even give full effort?

TB wanted to send a message-they were Prepared, Played hard, showed No mercy and looked like Pro's.

It was like watching the Longest Yard- the Bucs were cheap shotting us all night-and we took it like biatches.

I think it was more of a "Welcome to the NFL rookies/scrubs" moment. Not a bad message

KC Tattoo
08-13-2011, 02:05 PM
Something to prove. In a preseason game VS Bears on August 23 1967 the Chiefs kept there starters in the game for an all out assault that resulted in a meaningless 66 - 24 romp.


I think this team needs to grow some fortitude that Hank Stram had with his team. Just sayin.

RedThat
08-13-2011, 02:07 PM
Well.......duh.

Holy crap.

Of course depth is important, and that game last night will give Haly a chance to see where this team is.

But, if you do have a lack of depth, then you damn well better do everything in your power to preserve the health of your starters.

Relax. Geez.

Im just saying that Im feeling it more and more now that depth is important because its gotten to the point where Haley has to preserve his starters. It wouldn't surprise me if he knows we lack a lot of good quality backups at several positions.

Smed1065
08-13-2011, 02:10 PM
He could but I don't know that it would jive with his goal of starting the season with all the players/starters being healthy.

Might be out of shape now (players) and less odds for injuries when they are in better football shape? Time frame is out the window this year.

I think our starters are above average and our backups (below)?

Maybe they are a week behind? The new rules and start dates for players.

I would hope a coach adjusts to the facts of his team and condition versus a time line.

Deberg_1990
08-13-2011, 02:11 PM
Something to prove. In a preseason game VS Bears on August 23 1967 the Chiefs kept there starters in the game for an all out assault that resulted in a meaningless 66 - 24 romp.


I think this team needs to grow some fortitude that Hank Stram had with his team. Just sayin.

Yes because the game and economics of todays NFL is exactly like it was 44 years ago.

philfree
08-13-2011, 02:22 PM
Might be out of shape now (players) and less odds for injuries when they are in better football shape? Time frame is out the window this year.

I think our starters are above average and our backups (below)?

Maybe they are a week behind? The new rules and start dates for players.

I would hope a coach adjusts to the facts of his team and condition versus a time line.

Well the time line is in regard to the season opener and if we get off to a slow start losing to teams like Buff and Detroit our season could be over before it even gets going. Time is of the essence.

I like Haley but that doesn't mean I don't question what he's doing with training camp. I hope his plan works.

KC Tattoo
08-13-2011, 02:23 PM
Yes because the game and economics of todays NFL is exactly like it was 44 years ago.

LOL, I just wanted to bring it up, I know it's different today. Still attitude of winning plays a big part of becomming a winning team.

ReynardMuldrake
08-13-2011, 02:50 PM
Being healthy come Week 1 is important, but so is being prepared.

There will be a lot of teams that will be both come September 11th.

We have a ton of work to do if we're going to be one of those teams.

To tell the truth, I'm more worried about being healthy for week 11 & 12 for New England and Pittsburgh than I am being prepared week 1 & 2 for Buffalo and Detroit.

MIAdragon
08-13-2011, 03:10 PM
To tell the truth, I'm more worried about being healthy for week 11 & 12 for New England and Pittsburgh than I am being prepared week 1 & 2 for Buffalo and Detroit.

We're just as likely to get ass pounded against Buf and Det are we are NE and Pit. We're no where close to being good enough to over look ANYONE. One game at a time.

Smed1065
08-13-2011, 03:12 PM
Have to decide based on what you see now for later in the season. In the NFL it is the steps you take IMO instead of where you start.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 03:13 PM
I'm going to make myself perfectly clear: I don't care that we lost, nor do I care about the score.

But with that said...

All 32 teams are operating on the same short offseason. All 32 teams are looking to avoid injuries. It's Week 1 of the preseason for all 32 teams.

Yet we're the only team I've seen or read about as treating this like a scrimmage.

We're very lucky that we came out of this game without any injuries, considering the half-ass pace we played at. If you want to avoid injuries, don't play at the pace of a controlled scrimmage while the other team is playing all out. And sure as shit don't put guys like Cassel and JC out there to just go through the motions.

Tampa did everything better than we did last night, all on the same amount of practice time - they were quicker, they were crisper, the were more physical - they treated it like a game. We didn't.

What did we gain from even taking the field last night? Does anyone expect the coaching staff to be able to truly evaluate play when we treat a game like a practice and the other team is, you know, actually playing the game?

Hell, that was ugly even for a practice.

Milkman saw exactly what I saw.

A coach trying to keep his integral parts available for when it counts.

They are going to "build up to the season opener" week by week and Haley ever said as much well before the game that the focus is "preparing for september 11"

When players go so long without contact, or going full speed, its unwise to expect them to all of a sudden do so and if that was the track taken...we would probably be bitching about how Haley "is clueless and should have known not to play these guys in a meaningless game" and later in the season it would get worse and worse and people would be all like "we would have had a chance at beating the Jets IF we still had Bowe and Breaston"

...

PS

Cassel didnt throw a pass and was never in any danger and I dont think Charles ever played.

CrazyPhuD
08-13-2011, 03:14 PM
Heh games like last night make me wish we'd move to the 18 game regular season and 2 game preseason sooner rather than later.

Smed1065
08-13-2011, 03:15 PM
Heh games like last night make me wish we'd move to the 18 game regular season and 2 game preseason sooner rather than later.

:thumb:

KC Tattoo
08-13-2011, 03:33 PM
:thumb:

Texas holdem time :thumb:

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 04:02 PM
So Tampa's not trying to build up to the season opener?

Every team in the league wants to get through the preseason healthy.

I guess the other 31 teams are doing it wrong.

Milkman saw exactly what I saw.

A coach trying to keep his integral parts available for when it counts.

They are going to "build up to the season opener" week by week and Haley ever said as much well before the game that the focus is "preparing for september 11"

When players go so long without contact, or going full speed, its unwise to expect them to all of a sudden do so and if that was the track taken...we would probably be bitching about how Haley "is clueless and should have known not to play these guys in a meaningless game" and later in the season it would get worse and worse and people would be all like "we would have had a chance at beating the Jets IF we still had Bowe and Breaston"

...

PS

Cassel didnt throw a pass and was never in any danger and I dont think Charles ever played.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 04:18 PM
So Tampa's not trying to build up to the season opener?

Every team in the league wants to get through the preseason healthy.

I guess the other 31 teams are doing it wrong.
Is that why TB was still playing its starting offense in the second quarter of the first preseason game?

Lets say Freeman or any of his starters got hurt in meaningless action, are you saying you would back the coach in that scenario?

I sure as hell wouldn't.

It was a "high risk/low reward" call and those are ones that dumb people make.

Its the equivalent to a poker player always playing q-10 off suit expecting to win once they see the flop as A-K-10....."hell, I have a inside straight draw and a pair"

fools gold.

More so than any other year, injuries will likely tell the tale of the year. Hopefully, this strategy will help the team when ITS REAL.

When this team is healthy when it counts, you should be glad that we have a coach that knows when to push and when to not push things because he is looking at the big picture.

Blick
08-13-2011, 04:26 PM
With the shortened off-season, and the new rules about limited practices in full pads with full contact, I think pre-season games are more important this year than they ever have been.

I think we better turn the intensity up or we are going to be getting smacked in the mouth when the real games start while we are still "building up" to real football speed.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 04:35 PM
With the shortened off-season, and the new rules about limited practices in full pads with full contact, I think pre-season games are more important this year than they ever have been.

I think we better turn the intensity up or we are going to be getting smacked in the mouth when the real games start while we are still "building up" to real football speed.

This.

And all this bullshit about being healthy - did Tampa lose anyone of significance to injury last night?

Any other teams?

Chiefnj2
08-13-2011, 04:35 PM
What bothers me is that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th string players all sucked ass. Why is that TB's backups played with fire and intensity and KC's didn't? Aren't these guys playing for jobs? KC is lucky Stanzi isn't on IR this morning.

Blick
08-13-2011, 04:54 PM
And about injuries...the only way to avoid injuries is to not play.

So, what are we going to do when the real games start? Limit the snaps of our starters to "keep our legs fresh" for the stretch run in December?

Bullshit. Injuries can happen any time. More often than not, injuries happen based on sheer luck. They're flukes.

Play the game and get prepared to be a physical football team this year. You can't do that with practices in shorts.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 05:02 PM
Lets say Freeman or any of his starters got hurt in meaningless action, are you saying you would back the coach in that scenario?
.
Still waiting fro an answer.
This.

And all this bullshit about being healthy - did Tampa lose anyone of significance to injury last night?

Any other teams?

...let me also say that we are not the only one to keep the majority of their starters out of the opening preseason game this year...or at least keep them out of harms way.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 05:07 PM
Still waiting fro an answer.


...let me also say that we are not the only one to keep the majority of their starters out of the opening preseason game this year...or at least keep them out of harms way.

It has nothing to do with the playing time of the starters.

It has everything got do with the coaching staff being willing to piss away a game by treating it like practice, and seeing the players feed negatively off of it.

Supposedly we've spent the last two years building a winning culture around 1 Arrowhead Drive.

To not even try to be competitive is not the message to send, IMO.

Effort and intensity were lacking last night. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact our HC treated the game like a scrimmage.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 05:09 PM
Still waiting fro an answer.


...let me also say that we are not the only one to keep the majority of their starters out of the opening preseason game this year...or at least keep them out of harms way.

If your aunt had a dick and balls, she'd be your uncle.

If, if, if.

No one lost a significant player this weekend, at least thus far. Injuries can happen at any time. Christ, Cassel could have blown out a knee handing off last night.

Ifs and could haves don't mean shit.

Blick
08-13-2011, 05:10 PM
We rested players like a veteran team that went deep into the playoffs last year and expect to make a Super Bowl run this year.

Even guys who aren't starters didn't play that much. How many snaps did Javier Arenas get at corner? Not that many, and not enough for a 2nd year player.

It was weird how we just zoomed past 2nd and 3rd stringers and started plugging in fringe roster guys in the first quarter.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 05:10 PM
And about injuries...the only way to avoid injuries is to not play.

So, what are we going to do when the real games start? Limit the snaps of our starters to "keep our legs fresh" for the stretch run in December?

Bullshit. Injuries can happen any time. More often than not, injuries happen based on sheer luck. They're flukes.

Play the game and get prepared to be a physical football team this year. You can't do that with practices in shorts.

Spot on.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 05:20 PM
Path, you are making WAYYYY too much of a preseason game one.

So, you are saying that you would be totally fine if a starter went down because he was playing in the first preseason game after no offseason.

Got it.

I guess I can see it, cause it really is THAT IMPORTANT.

Messier
08-13-2011, 05:22 PM
This.

And all this bullshit about being healthy - did Tampa lose anyone of significance to injury last night?

Any other teams?

Yes, Seattle lost Okung didn't they? This is not a good argument. They didn't lose players so it was a good decision to play them. In a meaningless game I have no problem with not playing your starters. You play your starters and they don't get hurt? Great. They still could have been hurt. Drunk driving and not crashing doesn't mean it's ok to drink and drive.

We'll see if Haley's plan works. But with all the injuries happening, I have no problems with his approach.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 05:26 PM
Yes, Seattle lost Okung didn't they? This is not a good argument. They didn't lose players so it was a good decision to play them. In a meaningless game I have no problem with not playing your starters. You play your starters and they don't get hurt? Great. They still could have been hurt. Drunk driving and not crashing doesn't mean it's ok to drink and drive.

We'll see if Haley's plan works. But with all the injuries happening, I have no problems with his approach.

good, reasonable post.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 05:26 PM
Even if it were just a practice/scrimmage, etc...shouldnt we still expect the team to actually perform, play football? The team managed only 3 first downs in 3 quarters and never passed the 50 yard line in the first half and had two fumbles. I mean, that's almost as bad as some of KC's post season performances.

I cannot remember a preseason game where KC actually looked like a team that wasnt in complete chaos. They've been this ugly for as long as I can remember.

If they cannot execute in the preseason, how in the world are they supposed to execute in the regular season.

Chiefnj2
08-13-2011, 05:26 PM
Is it okay to play the starters in game 2, which is really like game 1 preseason in ordinary years? Usually starters don't play more than 2 series in those games.

Is it okay to play them 3 quarters in game three, or is it too much of a jump?

Do you play them in game 4 whereas most years the starters don't touch the ball?

When can you stop the fraidy cat coaching? And the starters not playing doesn't address the more important question of having 60 players who completely sucked ass and were unprepared.

kepp
08-13-2011, 05:28 PM
Holy cow, i hope nobody paid that?

I was given two tickets from a season ticket holder with face value of $239.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 05:30 PM
Oh yeah, concerning injuries in preseason...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries

(Id like to add that this report seems to have a couple discrepancies in it)

ChiefsCountry
08-13-2011, 05:30 PM
Can't really blame them especially with how the weather was/could have been last night. Yeah I would have liked to seen the starters play alot more, but I would have been way more pissed last night if Charles or Bowe got hurt than how the scrubs played last night.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 05:31 PM
Path, you are making WAYYYY too much of a preseason game one.

So, you are saying that you would be totally fine if a starter went down because he was playing in the first preseason game after no offseason.

Got it.

I guess I can see it, cause it really is THAT IMPORTANT.

No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

I'm saying that 31 other teams realize that with a shortened offseason, these games mean more in terms of preparation. They realize that a guy can get hurt in the fucking shower, or tripping over a McDonalds bag.

They pissed away a chance to prepare for real football by acting as if last night was a scrimmage, while every other team took advantage by actually playing the game.

Hopefully Haley can get everyone prepared on even less time than the rest of the league, because last night was wasted. Intensity and effort were piss- poor. Probably because the players knew their coach didn't even want to play the game.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 05:34 PM
FWIW, I'm not even upset. Just disappointed that we're more worried about injuries than preparing a young team for real games.

This team NEEDS these games. We can't be pissing them away by treating them like practice, IMO.

Blick
08-13-2011, 05:35 PM
Yes, Seattle lost Okung didn't they? This is not a good argument. They didn't lose players so it was a good decision to play them. In a meaningless game I have no problem with not playing your starters. You play your starters and they don't get hurt? Great. They still could have been hurt. Drunk driving and not crashing doesn't mean it's ok to drink and drive.

We'll see if Haley's plan works. But with all the injuries happening, I have no problems with his approach.

Players can get hurt during the regular season too.

We better not play our starters too much. Poor guys might get hurt.

Oh dear, this tackle football is rough!

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 05:35 PM
Is it okay to play the starters in game 2, which is really like game 1 preseason in ordinary years? Usually starters don't play more than 2 series in those games.

Is it okay to play them 3 quarters in game three, or is it too much of a jump?

Do you play them in game 4 whereas most years the starters don't touch the ball?

When can you stop the fraidy cat coaching? And the starters not playing doesn't address the more important question of having 60 players who completely sucked ass and were unprepared.

And that's the point in all of this.

The TEAM was unprepared. And it showed.

Messier
08-13-2011, 05:38 PM
Players can get hurt during the regular season too.

We better not play our starters too much. Poor guys might get hurt.

Oh dear, this tackle football is rough!

Yes, players can get hurt in regular season games. That's fine, you know why? Regular season counts. Big difference. It's frustrating to lose players in meaningless games. Everything else you said is dumb.

Blick
08-13-2011, 05:40 PM
Yes, players can get hurt in regular season games. That's fine, you know why? Regular season counts. Big difference. It's frustrating to lose players in meaningless games. Everything else you said is dumb.

No, worrying more about injuries than trying to prepare a young team is dumb.

-King-
08-13-2011, 05:42 PM
No, worrying more about injuries than trying to prepare a young team is dumb.

Worrying about injuries AND trying to prepare a young team is smart though.

You know what!?? Fuck it! Haley needs to stop worrying about injury and start playing the starters all 4 quarters in all 4 preseason games. That way we can be the most prepared team in the league! YEAH!

Messier
08-13-2011, 05:43 PM
No, worrying more about injuries than trying to prepare a young team is dumb.

Who said their not preparing the team? The youngest players got to play. Now they know what an NFL game is like.

keg in kc
08-13-2011, 05:43 PM
FWIW, I'm not even upset. Just disappointed that we're more worried about injuries than preparing a young team for real games.Over.

Reaction.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 05:44 PM
No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

I'm saying that 31 other teams realize that with a shortened offseason, these games mean more in terms of preparation. They realize that a guy can get hurt in the fucking shower, or tripping over a McDonalds bag.

They pissed away a chance to prepare for real football by acting as if last night was a scrimmage, while every other team took advantage by actually playing the game.

Hopefully Haley can get everyone prepared on even less time than the rest of the league, because last night was wasted. Intensity and effort were piss- poor. Probably because the players knew their coach didn't even want to play the game.
what the fuck happened to you?

Those comments are expected from some posters here, but not you.

You're better than that garbage.

It was preseason week 1 FFS

BigRock
08-13-2011, 05:44 PM
This article ran all over the country on Thursday:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_750969.html

Chiefs coach Todd Haley has been reluctant to put pads on his players the first two weeks of training camp, unsure what kind of condition they arrived in after the NFL lockout wiped away the offseason. He scrapped any sort of scrimmage prior to their first preseason game for the same reason.

Gazing around the league, Haley's cautious approach is making him look like a genius.

Giants cornerback Prince Amukamara will miss about two months after breaking his foot, and fellow first-rounder Nick Fairley of the Detroit Lions is out most of camp after his own foot surgery. Detroit's second-round draft pick, running back Mikel Leshoure, is done for the year after tearing his Achilles tendon on Monday -- the 10th player to sustain the same season-ending injury since the lockout ended and players went back to work.

Now, every time someone gets banged up, it begs the question: Is the lockout to blame?

"I don't know the answer to that," Haley said. "That's why, for the most part, we've been doing things as we've been doing them, which is one day at a time and doing the best job we can as a staff, evaluating our guys a number of different ways. And we always evaluate the physical readiness of guys."

That evaluation is in hyperdrive with the first preseason games scheduled for Thursday night. All the coaches have been balancing uncomfortably between getting players conditioned while at the same time protecting them from injury.

"I think there's 32 different answers to how coaches and players are approaching this," said Dr. Thom Mayer, the NFL Players' Association's medical director. "(The lockout) has really changed the dynamic."

Two days later, I can only imagine how embarrassed the Associated Press is that they didn't consult Blick before going to print.

INJURIES ARE JUST FLUKES WITH NO POSSIBLE CAUSES OR CORRELATIONS
SHUT UP AND PLAY

RedThat
08-13-2011, 05:48 PM
Even if it were just a practice/scrimmage, etc...shouldnt we still expect the team to actually perform, play football? The team managed only 3 first downs in 3 quarters and never passed the 50 yard line in the first half and had two fumbles. I mean, that's almost as bad as some of KC's post season performances.

I cannot remember a preseason game where KC actually looked like a team that wasnt in complete chaos. They've been this ugly for as long as I can remember.

If they cannot execute in the preseason, how in the world are they supposed to execute in the regular season.

I think most of the lack of execution came from our backups and third/fourth stringers.

The two fumbles were committed by our backups and thrid stringers. Harris screwed up on a snap in our own end, and Battle fumbled close to mid field.

-King-
08-13-2011, 05:49 PM
Detroit's second-round draft pick, running back Mikel Leshoure, is done for the year after tearing his Achilles tendon on Monday -- the 10th player to sustain the same season-ending injury since the lockout ended and players went back to work.

10 players have torn their fucking achilles tendon? Holy shit! In 1.5 weeks of practice?

Is Haley still a dumbass?

Messier
08-13-2011, 05:51 PM
I could care less if the Chiefs go 0-4 in the preseason and look horrible doing it. I don't think I've ever seen the Chiefs roll in the preseason. But I've seen some good Chiefs teams. This is a good team. We'll learn next to nothing from preseason, other than who won't make the team

BossChief
08-13-2011, 05:53 PM
Oh yeah, concerning injuries in preseason...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries

(Id like to add that this report seems to have a couple discrepancies in it)

this link shows injuries team by team...I hope people got a chance to look it over.

Deberg_1990
08-13-2011, 05:58 PM
We'll learn next to nothing from preseason, other than who won't make the team

Most of those guys were playing last night for the majority of snaps.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 05:59 PM
I think most of the lack of execution came from our backups and third/fourth stringers.

The two fumbles were committed by our backups and thrid stringers. Harris screwed up on a snap in our own end, and Battle fumbled close to mid field.

Yes, I realize that and you are correct. However, at some point the competition should have leveled out and the team should have been competitive as both teams 3/4 stringers played the game.

Messier
08-13-2011, 06:00 PM
Most of those guys were playing last night for the majority of snaps.

looks like it. A good deal of them.

keg in kc
08-13-2011, 06:07 PM
I think most of the lack of execution came from our backups and third/fourth stringers.

The two fumbles were committed by our backups and thrid stringers. Harris screwed up on a snap in our own end, and Battle fumbled close to mid field.And the guys who need the most work got the most work, namely the rookies and backups who'll make the roster, who all played a ton in the first half (and some into the second), and a lot of that play was against starters.

I almost feel like I should apologize that I don't share all the outrage and disgust being vented because half the starting lineup didn't play the requisite one or two drives that's standard for the first preseason game, and the ones who did play didn't do a whole lot. I mean, yeah, I'm sure Bowe needed a ton of work in that game, and Breaston, and Charles, and Wiegmann, and even Cassel. Those guys won't possibly be able to perform in September because they missed that essential 5 minutes of early preseason play. Same goes for Kelly and DJ and Hali and Flowers. It's bad. That valuable 5 minutes of timing and coordination is going to be the difference between the playoffs and discussing our upcoming top-5 pick in mid-October. I don't know how these veterans are ever going to cope.

And they definitely wouldn't want to get the starters out and give Bailey and Baldwin and Houston and Hudson and Brown and Miller and Powe some extended playing time to help build on the extra week of camp they've had. That wouldn't make any sense at all.

ReynardMuldrake
08-13-2011, 06:12 PM
No, worrying more about injuries than trying to prepare a young team is dumb.

All I can say is I'm glad you're not the coach.

Players will get more prepared and continue to improve as the season goes on. No amount of coaching is going to get a guy off injured reserve. Haley can bench the starters the whole preseason for all I care.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 06:13 PM
Lots of young guys got a rare chance to see the field against a teams starters that were playing as if it was midseason...that's valuable, no matter the outcome.

TEX
08-13-2011, 06:14 PM
I bet the game was fairly entertaining from a Tampa Bay perspective...

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 06:25 PM
I could care less if the Chiefs go 0-4 in the preseason and look horrible doing it...

Im glad that you can. Something inherently bothers me when team looks listless and incapable of executing regardless who is on the field.

ReynardMuldrake
08-13-2011, 06:29 PM
this link shows injuries team by team...I hope people got a chance to look it over.

Or sort it by date... kinda eye opening.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries/daily

ReynardMuldrake
08-13-2011, 06:30 PM
Im glad that you can. Something inherently bothers me when team looks listless and incapable of executing regardless who is on the field.

If it helps us win games late in the season by staying healthy, I would happily take 0-4.

Messier
08-13-2011, 06:34 PM
Im glad that you can. Something inherently bothers me when team looks listless and incapable of executing regardless who is on the field.

have you ever seen teams that end up with winning records do this? I have, every year.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 06:36 PM
If it helps us win games late in the season by staying healthy, I would happily take 0-4.

Let my type slowly since the concept seems to escape some folks here...I dont care about the record. The games do. not. count. Im talking about the quality of the execution in said game. THAT execution will help 'us' win games late in the season or at least in theory.

Seems to me KC likes to take huge dumps late in the season and post season. Might that have anything to do with execution or preseason record?

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 06:37 PM
have you ever seen teams that end up with winning records do this? I have, every year.

Do what?

Messier
08-13-2011, 06:38 PM
Do what?

Look crappy in the preseason.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 06:39 PM
Does anybody else think that if we came out with guns blazing and started everybody and scored 3 straight touchdowns....some people would take the other side of the fence on this?

"I cant believe they are risking these guys for a meaningless game"

Lets just hope nobody gets hurt or else we should just fire Haley for this stupidity on the spot"

stuff like that

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 06:40 PM
Look crappy in the preseason.

Catch any of that Patriots game? Most of their starters didnt play either...

Messier
08-13-2011, 06:43 PM
Does anybody else think that if we came out with guns blazing and started everybody and scored 3 straight touchdowns....some people would take the other side of the fence on this?

"I cant believe they are risking these guys for a meaningless game"

Lets just hope nobody gets hurt or else we should just fire Haley for this stupidity on the spot"

stuff like that

Yes, there'd be some of that.

I think most would be more optimistic, but everyone would temper it with saying, it's just the preseason. I think it should work both ways.

Messier
08-13-2011, 06:44 PM
Catch any of that Patriots game? Most of their starters didnt play either...

So great. If all their backups have to play at once they'll really clean house. Your point?

Blick
08-13-2011, 06:47 PM
Who said their not preparing the team? The youngest players got to play. Now they know what an NFL game is like.

Did they look prepared to play to you?

There were young guys that should have played more.

Are you telling me that young guys like Javier Arenas and Kendrick Lewis have this NFL game figured out already and don't need any more snaps than they got?

What about Jon Asamoah? Studebaker? Richardson?

I'm all for sitting our studs, but with the number of young players that we will be counting on, those guys need to be getting all the reps they can get.

Messier
08-13-2011, 06:49 PM
Did they look prepared to play to you?

There were young guys that should have played more.

Are you telling me that young guys like Javier Arenas and Kendrick Lewis have this NFL game figured out already and don't need any more snaps than they got?

What about Jon Asamoah? Studebaker? Richardson?

I'm all for sitting our studs, but with the number of young players that we will be counting on, those guys need to be getting all the reps they can get.

Sure they do. I'll bet through the preseason they get more work.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 06:53 PM
So great. If all their backups have to play at once they'll really clean house. Your point?

Good Heavens...Ive said it three times. Its all about execution.

Messier
08-13-2011, 07:00 PM
Good Heavens...Ive said it three times. Its all about execution.

So, do you think if we had played our starters. And run real plays that countered what the other team was doing we'd have looked better.

What if we played backups and game planned. Would we've done better?

I'll say this, Palko doesn't deserve to be on an NFL roster, I think he made a difference in the outcome as did many of the backup linemen. They couldn't execute.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 07:10 PM
So, do you think if we had played our starters. And run real plays that countered what the other team was doing we'd have looked better.

What if we played backups and game planned. Would we've done better?

I'll say this, Palko doesn't deserve to be on an NFL roster, I think he made a difference in the outcome as did many of the backup linemen. They couldn't execute.

I was suprised that Cassel played three series...I think the fact the only reason he played three was because the second one was just really one fumbled snap. Im not really sure why Charles was out there, he didnt touch the ball. The starters had one good play out of the 6-8 the 'starters' were out there. I dont think the coaches cared about the game and the team responded to their lead by taking the game off.

I was surprised that the competition never leveled and the team started to make some plays just from the mere fact that TB was also playing their scrubs...it just went from meh, to bad, to worse. It's concerning from a depth perspective.

ForeverChiefs58
08-13-2011, 07:14 PM
Does anybody else think that if we came out with guns blazing and started everybody and scored 3 straight touchdowns....some people would take the other side of the fence on this?

"I cant believe they are risking these guys for a meaningless game"

Lets just hope nobody gets hurt or else we should just fire Haley for this stupidity on the spot"

stuff like that


You can bet if charles got more carries in the preseason and got hurt everyone would be wanting blood.

Remember when Trent Green was with the Rams and got hurt in a preseason game and Kurt Warner had to go in?

Trent Green was perfect before he got hurt in that meaningless game and no one was happy about it. He was like 11 for 11, and everyone questioned Vermeil? Luckily for them, Warner made them forget. Not everyone has such depth.

I like Haley and trust he knows his guys best, and knows what they can handle. :thumb:

Messier
08-13-2011, 07:14 PM
I was suprised that Cassel played three series...I think the fact the only reason he played three was because the second one was just really one fumbled snap. Im not really sure why Charles was out there, he didnt touch the ball. The starters had one good play out of the 6-8 the 'starters' were out there. I dont think the coaches cared about the game and the team responded to their lead by taking the game off.

I was surprised that the competition never leveled and the team started to make some plays just from the mere fact that TB was also playing their scrubs...it just went from meh, to bad, to worse. It's concerning from a depth perspective.

Yes it it. I think it's worthwhile, because the coaches see the problem areas too. They know where they're weak, and need to improve.

SenselessChiefsFan
08-13-2011, 07:19 PM
I enjoyed the game. We got to see a lot of the youngsters. I loved the ball that Baldwin batted up to himself. (I still think it was a catch, it bounced off his foot)

Shortened preseason means guys just aren't as conditioned as they normally are by the first preseason game. Haley is taking it slow. Fine.

Additionally, the Chiefs have a shorter time to evaluate the talent. The young guys got a lot more game time. Again, Fine.

I do wish that they would have had Cassel throw a ball or two. I understand that the offensive line isn't completely together and that there is a chance for injury. I also think that the Chiefs would have had him throw the ball on the series that Battle fumbled. They were running well. I think they would have gone PAP soon if Battle hadn't fumbled. JMO.

All in all, it is preseason, so I don't care. It is a shortened preseason, so I care even less.

RedThat
08-13-2011, 07:22 PM
Yes, I realize that and you are correct. However, at some point the competition should have leveled out and the team should have been competitive as both teams 3/4 stringers played the game.

I agree.

This is where Im concerned about the depth on our roster. Last nights game gave me every indication to believe that our backups suck and can't compete against their backups.

Yesterdays game was a message to say that the quality of depth is equally as important as the starters on your roster.

I hope we stay healthy. I think we are going to need that. Lastly, if they decide to improve the depth on their roster, I hope at the very least it comes from a key position (QB). Palko is not the answer.

DenverDanChiefsFan
08-13-2011, 07:23 PM
I completely disagree with the people saying we need to play the starters because these preseason games are more important than usual.

I think we need to play the backups and back end of the roster more because the coaching staff didn't have all the offseason work to evaluate talent. Practice time and time in pads is cut down in training camp this year.

For the most part they know who the starters are and what they can do. They don't know who the others are or what they can do.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 07:23 PM
You can bet if charles got more carries in the preseason and got hurt everyone would be wanting blood.

Remember when Trent Green was with the Rams and got hurt in a preseason game and Kurt Warner had to go in?

Trent Green was perfect before he got hurt in that meaningless game and no one was happy about it. He was like 11 for 11, and everyone questioned Vermeil? Luckily for them, Warner made them forget. Not everyone has such depth.

I like Haley and trust he knows his guys best, and knows what they can handle. :thumb:

Is it just me or is your choice of the Green/Warner situation antithetical to the point you're attempting to make.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 07:25 PM
Yes it it. I think it's worthwhile, because the coaches see the problem areas too. They know where they're weak, and need to improve.

Weak is an understatement...they showed no heart, they didnt come to play. I have to fault the coaches for that.

Besides, when I see listless play from KC I start to have Marty flash backs. *shudder*

milkman
08-13-2011, 07:27 PM
Weak is an understatement...they showed no heart, they didnt come to play. I have to fault the coaches for that.

Besides, when I see listless play from KC I start to have Marty flash backs. *shudder*

Funny, given that Marty always had his teams prepared to start the season.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 07:29 PM
Does anybody else think that if we came out with guns blazing and started everybody and scored 3 straight touchdowns....some people would take the other side of the fence on this?

"I cant believe they are risking these guys for a meaningless game"

Lets just hope nobody gets hurt or else we should just fire Haley for this stupidity on the spot"

stuff like that

How many more times are you going to twist the argument to suit your agenda?

No one is complaining the starters didn't play enough.

Messier
08-13-2011, 07:30 PM
Weak is an understatement...they showed no heart, they didnt come to play. I have to fault the coaches for that.

Besides, when I see listless play from KC I start to have Marty flash backs. *shudder*

Showed no heart? What do you even mean? It's the preseason! Is this even close to what you expect from the team come the regular season?

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 07:31 PM
I was suprised that Cassel played three series...I think the fact the only reason he played three was because the second one was just really one fumbled snap. Im not really sure why Charles was out there, he didnt touch the ball. The starters had one good play out of the 6-8 the 'starters' were out there. I dont think the coaches cared about the game and the team responded to their lead by taking the game off.

I was surprised that the competition never leveled and the team started to make some plays just from the mere fact that TB was also playing their scrubs...it just went from meh, to bad, to worse. It's concerning from a depth perspective.

Exactly.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 07:32 PM
Funny, given that Marty always had his teams prepared to start the season.

True...it doesnt take long to memorize a two page playbook.

CoMoChief
08-13-2011, 07:32 PM
The Chiefs need to refund ticket prices to the people that paid to watch that glorified practice......that was just bullshit to even treat that as a game. If they're not going to treat it like one, why should the fans have to pay like it is?

RedThat
08-13-2011, 07:33 PM
I completely disagree with the people saying we need to play the starters because these preseason games are more important than usual.

I think we need to play the backups and back end of the roster more because the coaching staff didn't have all the offseason work to evaluate talent. Practice time and time in pads is cut down in training camp this year.

For the most part they know who the starters are and what they can do. They don't know who the others are or what they can do.

This is where the lockout screwed things up and created setbacks for a lot of teams, and players.

Training camp and practices were cut short because of the labor dispute, and as a result, we saw how everything was just crammed in, i.e., training camp.

The way I see it, players are being forced to instantly work at full speed rather than gradually easing their way in and then going full speed.

I think more and more injuries are occuring because of lack of conditioning. I don't think some of these are well conditioned enough to go full force right away? They have to gradually work their way up to do that. Thats a process that takes time.

RedThat
08-13-2011, 07:34 PM
True...it doesnt take long to memorize a two page playbook.

ROFL

Blick
08-13-2011, 07:35 PM
Sure they do. I'll bet through the preseason they get more work.

I know. But they needed more work last night.

In a shortened offseason with limited full contact practices, these pre-season games shouldn't be looked at with the usual apathetic attitude.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 07:37 PM
Showed no heart? What do you even mean? It's the preseason! Is this even close to what you expect from the team come the regular season?

Sorry, I'll try this again...

They did not execute, didnt appear to even try. Coaches didnt care, and neither did the players. Is 'show no heart' unfair, eh, maybe. Just frustrating to watch.

There is nothing about that game that you can take and build any sort of expectations for the regular season. I expect this season to be a long frustrating season based upon the schedule on paper.

If the OL struggles, this team is doomed because the run game will be stuffed and completed passes appear to be as rare in KC as playoff wins.

Messier
08-13-2011, 07:39 PM
I know. But they needed more work last night.

In a shortened offseason with limited full contact practices, these pre-season games shouldn't be looked at with the usual apathetic attitude.

What was apathetic about the game? The backups tried. They tried hard. Most weren't up to the task. Some players were thrown into the fire and will be better because of it.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 07:39 PM
How many more times are you going to twist the argument to suit your agenda?

No one is complaining the starters didn't play enough.

"my agenda"?

what exactly is my agenda?

I'm just calling em as I see em, if anybody here has an agenda...it sure isn't me.

Your dislike for the current regime has clouded your judgement on some issues IMO.

I may well be wrong...it happens...but thats surely the way it seems and Im sure Im not anywhere near alone here.

No disrespect.

Messier
08-13-2011, 07:40 PM
Sorry, I'll try this again...

They did not execute, didnt appear to even try. Coaches didnt care, and neither did the players. Is 'show no heart' unfair, eh, maybe. Just frustrating to watch.

There is nothing about that game that you can take and build any sort of expectations for the regular season. I expect this season to be a long frustrating season based upon the schedule on paper.

If the OL struggles, this team is doomed because the run game will be stuffed and completed passes appear to be as rare in KC as playoff wins.

Well, thank goodness that's not the o-line, or the team that we'll see week one. Do you have that fear?

TEX
08-13-2011, 07:47 PM
Sorry, I'll try this again...

They did not execute, didnt appear to even try. Coaches didnt care, and neither did the players. Is 'show no heart' unfair, eh, maybe. Just frustrating to watch.

There is nothing about that game that you can take and build any sort of expectations for the regular season. I expect this season to be a long frustrating season based upon the schedule on paper.

If the OL struggles, this team is doomed because the run game will be stuffed and completed passes appear to be as rare in KC as playoff wins.

I hear ya. I'm concerned that the OL and DL will struggle.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 07:47 PM
Well, thank goodness that's not the o-line, or the team that we'll see week one. Do you have that fear?

Ive lived through Marty and Herm...nothing really scares me about this team any more unless Hayley starts talking about finding The Gleam.

I just want the team to execute...against the other teams scrubs, this team still failed to do anything.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 07:47 PM
It has nothing to do with the playing time of the starters.

It has everything got do with the coaching staff being willing to piss away a game by treating it like practice, and seeing the players feed negatively off of it.

Supposedly we've spent the last two years building a winning culture around 1 Arrowhead Drive.

To not even try to be competitive is not the message to send, IMO.

Effort and intensity were lacking last night. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact our HC treated the game like a scrimmage.

Path, you are making WAYYYY too much of a preseason game one.

So, you are saying that you would be totally fine if a starter went down because he was playing in the first preseason game after no offseason.

Got it.

I guess I can see it, cause it really is THAT IMPORTANT.

Oh yeah, concerning injuries in preseason...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries

(Id like to add that this report seems to have a couple discrepancies in it)

this link shows injuries team by team...I hope people got a chance to look it over.

Does anybody else think that if we came out with guns blazing and started everybody and scored 3 straight touchdowns....some people would take the other side of the fence on this?

"I cant believe they are risking these guys for a meaningless game"

Lets just hope nobody gets hurt or else we should just fire Haley for this stupidity on the spot"

stuff like that

"my agenda"?

what exactly is my agenda?

I'm just calling em as I see em, if anybody here has an agenda...it sure isn't me.

Your dislike for the current regime has clouded your judgement on some issues IMO.

I may well be wrong...it happens...but thats surely the way it seems and Im sure Im not anywhere near alone here.

No disrespect.

Sure, you have no agenda.

I guess it's just a lack of reading comprehension.

No disrespect.

Keep pushing an issue I'm not bitching about.

And again, since reading isn't your strong suit, I'm not upset.

I'm just not a fan of the message that was sent last night by our coaching staff. They treated it like a glorified practice, and the players played like - gasp - it was a glorified practice.

The effort and intensity wasn't there REGARDLESS of who was on the field.

It's a bad precedent to set, and I hope it doesn't take hold.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry, superfan.

Messier
08-13-2011, 07:49 PM
Ive lived through Marty and Herm...nothing really scares me about this team any more unless Hayley starts talking about finding The Gleam.

I just want the team to execute...against the other teams scrubs, this team still failed to do anything.

does this game mean anything about the regular season?

Just Passin' By
08-13-2011, 07:49 PM
Tampa Bay is just as young etc as we are

So the Tampa Bay players either did a better job of staying in shape themselves or they have done a better job of prepping them in TC.

whichever ... i don't care about the score, but we looked pathetic and there is no excuse.

Matt Light didn't come off PUP until today. Haynesworth is being rested and paced. The Patriots didn't even dress 17 of their starters for the Jacksonville game.

Tonight, the Rams are pummeling the Colts, 29-3.

Stop taking game one of the preseason even the slightest bit seriously. It's probably the least important day of training camp, for all but a handful of players.

TEX
08-13-2011, 07:50 PM
Ive lived through Marty and Herm...nothing really scares me about this team any more unless Hayley starts talking about finding The Gleam.

I just want the team to execute...against the other teams scrubs, this team still failed to do anything.

Or "BIG CHUNKS" of yards and Jessie Haynes...

Blick
08-13-2011, 07:51 PM
What was apathetic about the game? The backups tried. They tried hard. Most weren't up to the task. Some players were thrown into the fire and will be better because of it.

I was talking more about the attitude of the posters on here.

I know that pre-season doesn't mean shit. But this is a different year.

I hope Haley is doing the right thing.

milkman
08-13-2011, 07:51 PM
Sure, you have no agenda.

I guess it's just a lack of reading comprehension.

No disrespect.

Keep pushing an issue I'm not bitching about.

And again, since reading isn't your strong suit, I'm not upset.

I'm just not a fan of the message that was sent last night by our coaching staff. They treated it like a glorified practice, and the players played like - gasp - it was a glorified practice.

The effort and intensity wasn't there REGARDLESS of who was on the field.

It's a bad precedent to set, and I hope it doesn't take hold.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry, superfan.

So you're worried that a team that takes a meaningless preseason game lightly will carry that over nto the regular saeson?

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 07:53 PM
Matt Light didn't come off PUP until today. Haynesworth is being rested and paced. The Patriots didn't even dress 17 of their starters for the Jacksonville game.

Tonight, the Rams are pummeling the Colts, 29-3.

Stop taking game one of the preseason even the slightest bit seriously. It's probably the least important day of training camp, for all but a handful of players.

At least the Colts managed to score 3...besides, we all know the loss of Bob Sanders and Mike Peterson is the reason why Indy is losing.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 07:57 PM
So you're worried that a team that takes a meaningless preseason game lightly will carry that over nto the regular saeson?

I'm worried that poor effort and intensity could carry over into future games, both preseason and regular season.

I'm more concerned that as a TEAM, we looked ill-prepared for even a glorified practice, much less a game. I guess I'm in the minority - with a shortened offseason, these games are even more important, not less important.

Losing doesn't bother me. Losing badly doesn't bother me. Resting starters doesn't bother me.

The coaching staff lowering the bar for the guys that did play, bothers me a bit. We're going to need some of these guys over the course of the year, and treating one of the few game experiences they get before they count for year as a practice didn't do any of them any favors, IMHO.

You're more than welcome to feel differently.

Messier
08-13-2011, 08:02 PM
Haley's track record, what he's done with players that were already here and under preforming has me convinced he knows what he's doing with players and their development. Losing pre or regular season always frustrates me. I've just come to realize the preseason has nothing to do with what a team will be during the season.

Just Passin' By
08-13-2011, 08:03 PM
At least the Colts managed to score 3...besides, we all know the loss of Bob Sanders and Mike Peterson is the reason why Indy is losing.

What's important is the coaches being able to evaluate the players on the field. Last night's Chiefs game gave the coaches plenty to break down in team meetings. Players will be praised and criticized. Some of the more obviously unacceptable players may be cut. Next week will be the first time that players are looked at for their ability to avoid past mistakes in games.

That's when this will start to mean something.

milkman
08-13-2011, 08:06 PM
I'm worried that poor effort and intensity could carry over into future games, both preseason and regular season.

I'm more concerned that as a TEAM, we looked ill-prepared for even a glorified practice, much less a game. I guess I'm in the minority - with a shortened offseason, these games are even more important, not less important.

Losing doesn't bother me. Losing badly doesn't bother me. Resting starters doesn't bother me.

The coaching staff lowering the bar for the guys that did play, bothers me a bit. We're going to need some of these guys over the course of the year, and treating one of the few game experiences they get before they count for year as a practice didn't do any of them any favors, IMHO.

You're more than welcome to feel differently.

Given the shoretened preparartion time that teams had to prepare for this first preseason game, I think that it is far less important to the overall preparartion for the season that the next three, which is why I believe that you'll see the Chiefs play the regulars a little longer in the 4th game than we're accustomed to seeing.

And yeah, I can see how a coaching staff's approach to this game could permeate through to the team, but I don't believe that it is something that's going to carry over beyond this game.

I think we'll see an increase in intensity level, effort and execution substantially next week, and that intensity level will start to show up in practices this week.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 08:08 PM
I am not a Milkman mult

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 08:08 PM
What's important is the coaches being able to evaluate the players on the field. Last night's Chiefs game gave the coaches plenty to break down in team meetings. Players will be praised and criticized. Some of the more obviously unacceptable players may be cut. Next week will be the first time that players are looked at for their ability to avoid past mistakes in games.

That's when this will start to mean something.

Not trying to pick a fight, asking a legitimate question.

How do you expect the staff to properly evaluate players that were playing at a controlled scrimmage effort against a team that was actually playing the game?

I'm not sure if you caught the game last night, but the intensity and effort wasn't there - from the starters down to the 90th guy on the roster.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 08:10 PM
Given the shoretened preparartion time that teams had to prepare for this first preseason game, I think that it is far less important to the overall preparartion for the season that the next three, which is why I believe that you'll see the Chiefs play the regulars a little longer in the 4th game than we're accustomed to seeing.

And yeah, I can see how a coaching staff's approach to this game could permeate through to the team, but I don't believe that it is something that's going to carry over beyond this game.

I think we'll see an increase in intensity level, effort and execution substantially next week, and that intensity level will start to show up in practices this week.

I HOPE you're right.

However, we seem to be the only team (at least that I've seen) taking this approach. Even the teams that looked like shit treated the game like a game, and not a practice.

And a lot of teams took the opportunity to get better.

I hope Todd knows what he's doing.

Just Passin' By
08-13-2011, 08:16 PM
Not trying to pick a fight, asking a legitimate question.

How do you expect the staff to properly evaluate players that were playing at a controlled scrimmage effort against a team that was actually playing the game?

I'm not sure if you caught the game last night, but the intensity and effort wasn't there - from the starters down to the 90th guy on the roster.

I watched the entire game. I think people are missing the obvious, which is that Tampa Bay was playing to win, and keeping their starters in until into the second quarter, while the Chiefs were taking a page out of the Patriots handbook and playing a lot of the backups right from the beginning, for evaluation and safety purposes. When you add that to the slow start for K.C. because of the ST, and toss in two lousy backup QBs trying to improve themselves against a team bringing blitzes in the first preseason game, you get what you saw last night. That doesn't mean coaches can't evaluate the players. You can be sure that the QBs were breaking down the film, and that the special teams players were getting an earful.

KCTitus
08-13-2011, 08:20 PM
What's important is the coaches being able to evaluate the players on the field. Last night's Chiefs game gave the coaches plenty to break down in team meetings. Players will be praised and criticized. Some of the more obviously unacceptable players may be cut. Next week will be the first time that players are looked at for their ability to avoid past mistakes in games.

Well, there were players on the field...not sure what game they were playing, but they were on the field. I sure am glad that they'll all be able to sit down and talk about how poorly they executed, because we all know that championship teams are made in the meeting room.

That's when this will start to mean something.

Id be careful saying that...you might get flamed, because the preseason means nothing.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 08:20 PM
I watched the entire game. I think people are missing the obvious, which is that Tampa Bay was playing to win, and keeping their starters in until into the second quarter, while the Chiefs were taking a page out of the Patriots handbook and playing a lot of the backups right from the beginning, for evaluation and safety purposes. When you add that to the slow start for K.C. because of the ST, and toss in two lousy backup QBs trying to improve themselves against a team bringing blitzes in the first preseason game, you get what you saw last night. That doesn't mean coaches can't evaluate the players. You can be sure that the QBs were breaking down the film, and that the special teams players were getting an earful.

IMO, it has nothing to do with Tampa playing starters and KC playing backups.

Our coaching staff treated the game like a scrimmage, and the players played the part.

I just don't see us getting much out of that.

Appreciate your opinion, though.

OnTheWarpath58
08-13-2011, 08:24 PM
You know who got the most out of last night's game?

Dustin Colquitt.

LMAO

Very surprised we don't have a camp punter.

Smed1065
08-13-2011, 08:24 PM
Does anybody else think that if we came out with guns blazing and started everybody and scored 3 straight touchdowns....some people would take the other side of the fence on this?

"I cant believe they are risking these guys for a meaningless game"

Lets just hope nobody gets hurt or else we should just fire Haley for this stupidity on the spot"

stuff like that

Here?

Just Passin' By
08-13-2011, 08:36 PM
IMO, it has nothing to do with Tampa playing starters and KC playing backups.

It has everything to do with that. That demonstrated the fundamental difference in the approach being taken by the teams. Raheem Morris is looking to win the Preseason Super Bowl, and Todd Haley is looking to keep players healthy and fill out his roster.

Our coaching staff treated the game like a scrimmage, and the players played the part.

Appreciate your opinion, though.

Your coaching staff avoided injury to starters while getting tape to evaluate the backups and the end of the roster, and doing that by working in 90 players instead of the usual 80 this year. If you don't see a team getting much out of that, I don't know what to tell you that will convince you of its value.

Did you expect a lot of scoring from Palko or Stanzi? Did you think Powe was going to look like an All Pro? What was really missing for you, outside of your perception of the effort?

philfree
08-13-2011, 08:37 PM
IMO, it has nothing to do with Tampa playing starters and KC playing backups.

Our coaching staff treated the game like a scrimmage, and the players played the part.

I just don't see us getting much out of that.

Appreciate your opinion, though.


I'm not sure that's what happened though it might have looked that way. I do think their starters into the 2nd half made a difference but the reason we looked to not be trying 100% was due to the fact that we just haven't been in pads very much. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Bucs were in pads and hitting at the first possible chance to do so. That gives them a big advantage IMO.

Just Passin' By
08-13-2011, 08:41 PM
Id be careful saying that...you might get flamed, because the preseason means nothing.

The preseason is meaningless for wins and losses, but week 2 is extremely important for the low enders. Week 3 is important for the starters. Week 4 is important for the last few players on the bubble.

Count Zarth
08-13-2011, 08:49 PM
Has anyone commented on how good Thomas Jones looked? That was a positive right?

Thomas Jones looked slow as shit on that carry where he waddled into the secondary.

keg in kc
08-13-2011, 08:54 PM
Thomas Jones looked slow as shit on that carry where he waddled into the secondary.That's exactly what I thought. I thought they might be trying to feature him for a trade, and he looked like he was running in jello.

Count Zarth
08-13-2011, 08:57 PM
I'm not sure if you caught the game last night, but the intensity and effort wasn't there - from the starters down to the 90th guy on the roster.

Really?

I saw differently...I saw a lot of guys giving effort. Tell me Jerrell Powe wasn't giving full effort when he ran 25 yards down the field to tackle the ball carrier before he scored.....tell me Stanzi wasn't giving full effort when he was running for his life...tell me McCluster wasn't giving full effort on that third-down carry when he tried to dance for a first down....tell me Baldwin wasn't giving full effort when he tried to make that circus catch.

Mostly I saw a bunch of second and third stringers that were overmatched talent wise.

The coaches should be blamed for not even trying to get the starters into the game but maybe that was part of the plan.

I saw effort from guys like Gales, Walters, Powe, Stanzi, Battle, etc.

Count Zarth
08-13-2011, 08:58 PM
That's exactly what I thought. I thought they might be trying to feature him for a trade, and he looked like he was running in jello.

It almost looked like he didn't want to go full speed for fear of busting a hamstring. :LOL:

Count Zarth
08-13-2011, 09:00 PM
This article is dumb...no one will remember this preseason game in a month.

keg in kc
08-13-2011, 09:09 PM
The preseason is meaningless for wins and losses, but week 2 is extremely important for the low enders. Week 3 is important for the starters. Week 4 is important for the last few players on the bubble.Exactly.

It's the first preseason game that's meaningless. That's been the case as long as I've watched football. Starters rarely play very much. Usually a few series, sometimes longer, sometimes less. And it's usually ugly. Last night was just...more ugly.

If they look like that in weeks 2 and 3 there's more of a reason to be concerned, particularly I think with the tackling.

In the end, if you want to take anything out of the preseason, week 3 is the real week to watch. That's the rehearsal week. It'll be game-planned, at least to a degree (by both teams), and the starters will likely play into the early second half. Although come to think of it, last year, if I remember right, the starters played nearly all the way through the 3rd quarter against the Eagles. That was the game Cassel was hurt in back in '09, but I think the rest of the starters played well into the 3rd that year, too.

Chocolate Hog
08-13-2011, 09:09 PM
I noticed we were getting up to the line quickly last night. Has Haley said if he plans to play a more uptempo offense?

keg in kc
08-13-2011, 09:10 PM
It almost looked like he didn't want to go full speed for fear of busting a hamstring. :LOL:I don't know, after watching the second half of the season in '10 I think that was full speed.

scott free
08-13-2011, 09:10 PM
Bob got it right in many ways, there was unquestionably no sense of purpose overall, TB was playing regular season while KC was allowing itself some slack with only a few flashes from guys old & new.

General impressions...

Baldwin - the bobbled catch sealed him in my mind as a worthy #2, like Dawyne Bowe 2.0

Battle - good luck & good bye guy, amazed that you got so much work after that.

Stanzi - its not a true cannon, but this guy has a classic 'live arm' & beyond all that, what a gamer... thats good ol want to.

Cassel - 5 ypc, on 3 tosses... pedestrian.

Powe - didnt wow or disappoint, had one nice tackle where he & the entire line was getting bulldozed but stayed low, aware & root hogged for it.

Bailey - showed explosion & inexperience.

Secondary of lower tier - got ate up for every kinda cheap throw in TB's arsenal, just terrible... better crack that whip Emmett.

Deberg_1990
08-13-2011, 09:13 PM
Thomas Jones looked slow as shit on that carry where he waddled into the secondary.

2 carries for 25 yards and we are going to complain? Good grief

philfree
08-13-2011, 09:15 PM
Cassel - 5 ypc, on 3 tosses... pedestrian

This is wrong. Cassel never attempted a pass.

keg in kc
08-13-2011, 09:15 PM
Really?

I saw differently...I saw a lot of guys giving effort. Tell me Jerrell Powe wasn't giving full effort when he ran 25 yards down the field to tackle the ball carrier before he scored.....tell me Stanzi wasn't giving full effort when he was running for his life...tell me McCluster wasn't giving full effort on that third-down carry when he tried to dance for a first down....tell me Baldwin wasn't giving full effort when he tried to make that circus catch.

Mostly I saw a bunch of second and third stringers that were overmatched talent wise.

The coaches should be blamed for not even trying to get the starters into the game but maybe that was part of the plan.

I saw effort from guys like Gales, Walters, Powe, Stanzi, Battle, etc.Yeah, I didn't think it was a lack of effort, either. I that it was a combination of being overmatched by better players (the o-line) and some fundamental breakdowns (the defense/tackling).

I've said this before, but I was actually slightly encouraged by the defense, because they held up fairly well second string versus first string. I thought the score was made more lopsided by the turnovers, the fumble at the 10 in particular.

As far as the second half goes, I don't really give a shit. When I don't know who the hell most of the players even are, I don't think I need to worry a whole lot about what their role with the squad's going to be. Because they're not going to be on it.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 09:22 PM
I noticed we were getting up to the line quickly last night. Has Haley said if he plans to play a more uptempo offense?

he absolutely needs to IMHO.

I said it during late 2009, but I think Cassel would benefit from an offense similar to the one the Bills ran back in the day.

Up tempo, lots of no huddle.

I think it would help Cassel "just play" and not think so much when he plays.

As a change of pace where they would run this kind of thing, it could really catch a team off guard...especially if it were in a big game and they had a group of somewhat scripted plays that focused on a teams weaknesses.

We definitely have the players on offense to totally flourish with something like that due to all of their versatility.

BossChief
08-13-2011, 09:26 PM
2 carries for 25 yards and we are going to complain? Good grief

IMO JC scores on both of those plays...shit DMC may score on them as well...

It reminded me of when Surtain got that interception and took a couple minutes to go about 35 yards or so.

keg in kc
08-13-2011, 09:28 PM
Battle's runs were the same way. He looked so slow and tentative to me. There were a couple of holes that I think would have been long runs with Charles and possibly McCluster.

Although to be honest, I still don't like McCluster back there.

DBOSHO
08-13-2011, 09:34 PM
GOD I wish we wouldve taken a chance with Blount last year.

MahiMike
08-14-2011, 05:42 AM
So is game 3 the only game that teams try on? I saw the same effort out of the Jags Thursday night. Maybe Clark is sending a message. He's pissed he didn't get the 18 games he wanted.

Steve
08-14-2011, 06:29 AM
I agree.I was there and I wont waste my money again.I didnt expect anything but was still disappointed.I dont care about score but at least give something.