PDA

View Full Version : News Crazy stuff goes down on the plaza again


Chocolate Hog
08-14-2011, 01:43 AM
I don't know whats more disturbing that this happened on the plaza, the victims were 11,15,16 or it happened by the mayor.


Three youths injured in Plaza shootings

By KAREN DILLON

The Kansas City Star


Kansas City mounted police officers herded people out of the crime scene area on the Country Club Plaza late Saturday night after a shooting there. Go to KansasCity.com for a photo gallery.

More News
Three youths injured in Plaza shootings
Another lawsuit is filed against a former KC priest
Another lawsuit accuses Ratigan of misconduct
Former police officer charged in murders appears in court
Crime Stoppers' most wanted
KC police car runs over man’s legs while chasing him
Police tout success of crime sweep
Shooting victim died five days after getting married
At least three youths were injured in shootings late Saturday night on the Country Club Plaza, where a melee erupted in which Mayor Sly James was shoved to the ground.

Police confirmed the shooting victims were two boys and a girl, ages 11, 15 and 16.

Police were releasing few details, but said one victim was shot in the leg, and a bullet creased the cheek of a girl, witnesses said. They did not describe the third victim’s injury.

The shooting occurred near 47th and Wyandotte streets, near the Cheesecake Factory.

Police barricaded a large section of 47th Street, from J.C. Nichols Parkway to Broadway and said there were two crime scenes in that area.

Helicopters flew overhead and police on horseback and motorcycles herded groups of people away. Several ambulances were at the scene.

In an interview early today, James said when the shots were fired, he was standing in front of the Cheesecake Factory and his bodyguards shoved him to the ground.

Alvin Brooks, former mayor pro-tem, said he threw himself to the ground and the Rev. Kenneth Ray fell into some bushes.

Scores of kids started running from the scene.

“Then I said ‘Oh my God,’ ” Brooks said. Scores of other kids to the east started running toward where the shots were fired.

The scene was in stark contrast to earlier in the evening, when James, Brooks, ministers and Aim4Peace members met at Mill Creek Park on 47th Street about 8:30 p.m.

“We are simply going to walk around the Plaza,” James said at the time.

During an impromptu news conference in front of the Mill Creek fountain, he said he believed there were alternatives to a tougher curfew that some people in Kansas City are calling for.

But after the shootings, James said he had changed his mind and had asked the city attorney to advise him on how he could set a curfew without City Council approval.

He said he understood that as mayor he could set a curfew if there was a natural disaster or a state of emergency such as a riot.

“This may be something close to a riot,” he said.

He had harsh words for parents. Scores of kids walking the sidewalks appeared to be as young as 10 years old.

Many of the kids were from as far away as Raytown and Raymore.

One 15-year-old girl who was with three others about her age said her mother had dropped her off several hours before so that she could hang out and go to the movies. She said she did not know when her mother was going to pick her up.

Those girls said they saw the girl who had been shot and that blood was running down her neck.

Highwoods Properties, which owns the Plaza, wants the city to consider an earlier curfew than the current one: midnight on weekends and 11 p.m. the rest of the week.

To reach Karen Dillon send email to kdillon@kcstar.com.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/14/3074974/mayor-james-walks-the-plaza-for.html#ixzz1UzFs1cJR

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 01:45 AM
25-0 bros

patteeu
08-14-2011, 08:11 AM
It was quite a show to put on for the mayor's fact finding mission. I'd imagine that those who want action from the mayor's office are going to get it.

BigRedChief
08-14-2011, 08:22 AM
Young black males are not welcome on the Plaza?

KCUnited
08-14-2011, 08:25 AM
Saw the mayor at a local watering hole last week, I was less than impressed with his muscle.

evenfall
08-14-2011, 09:19 AM
Really? People are getting shot on the Plaza now?

milkman
08-14-2011, 09:21 AM
Saw the mayor at a local watering hole last week, I was less than impressed with his muscle.

How can you be sure?

Did you squeeze his muscle?

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 09:22 AM
What do you expect? The Plaza has no midnight basketball.
This is on the parents. Who lets an 11 year old stroll around the Plaza unsupervised at 11pm on a Saturday night?

threebag02
08-14-2011, 09:31 AM
Ray Lewis is right. Without football crime will increase.

Al Bundy
08-14-2011, 09:45 AM
There will be a curfew in Kansas City.... probably a 9 PM one.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 09:52 AM
This story is incomplete. It doesn't say who fired the shots, or why, or what set it all off.

If you read between the lines, this is the real story:

"Roving bands of underage, unsupervised (Black) youth are loitering on the Plaza again...the (Black) community, including the Mayor and Alvin Brooks know all about it, some young punk had to bring a gun to the party and wound three minor children...the Mayor was close enough to eat pavement when it happened. Unbelievably stupid and negligent parents of these children are responsible for the situation, but (of course) will not held accountable in any way.

The Plaza is Westport revisited.

The real shit won't hit the fan until these kids migrate to Deer Creek Woods in Leawood.

If this would have happend somewhere East of Troost, it would barely register on the news. It would be buried in the Metro section as just another late night shooting.

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 09:57 AM
What do you expect? The Plaza has no midnight basketball.
This is on the parents. Who lets an 11 year old stroll around the Plaza unsupervised at 11pm on a Saturday night?

Kids have to earn their "street cred" somehow these days.

Chocolate Hog
08-14-2011, 10:06 AM
This story is incomplete. It doesn't say who fired the shots, or why, or what set it all off.

If you read between the lines, this is the real story:

"Roving bands of underage, unsupervised (Black) youth are loitering on the Plaza again...the (Black) community, including the Mayor and Alvin Brooks know all about it, some young punk had to bring a gun to the party and wound three minor children...the Mayor was close enough to eat pavement when it happened. Unbelievably stupid and negligent parents of these children are responsible for the situation, but (of course) will not held accountable in any way.

The Plaza is Westport revisited.

The real shit won't hit the fan until these kids migrate to Deer Creek Woods in Leawood.

If this would have happend somewhere East of Troost, it would barely register on the news. It would be buried in the Metro section as just another late night shooting.

Thing is crime has spilled over west of Troost alot the last 5 years or so. Go to midtown at night especially on 39th and Broadway you'll see all kinds of shit. I've seen a few drug transactions go down, theres always robberies, and a few weeks ago there was a shooting. KC would rather build an arena with no sports team and a douchey bar district rather than address something that's been a problem for a very long time: crime.

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 10:09 AM
Thing is crime has spilled over east of Troost alot the last 5 years or so. Go to midtown at night especially on 39th and Broadway you'll see all kinds of shit. I've seen a few drug transactions go down, theres always robberies, and a few weeks ago there was a shooting. KC would rather build an arena with no sports team and a douchey bar district rather than address something that's been a problem for a very long time: crime.

Theres crime in every major inner city in America. Your never going to stop it.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 10:14 AM
I think BP meant to say "spill over WEST of Troost." The problem here is gangs of black teenagers are going to scare off rich white folk and rich white tourists, who actually spend money on the Plaza. They can go to Town Center in Leawood or the Legends in KCK, or the P&L District Downtown and not have to deal with this.

And to be clear. All peaceful, law abiding people are welcome in the Plaza. Kids -any color of kids- who are there loitering, and bringing guns and DISCHARGING guns, should be arrested, and their parents fined and jailed.

Op Ed in today's KC Star:


Plaza violence a messy mix of race, parents, politicians
http://tinyurl.com/3c63xsp

Yael T. Abouhalkah

The large gatherings of mostly black kids on weekend nights on the Country Club Plaza - marred by violence last night - will have plenty of repercussions.

First, this will be an early test of the administration of Mayor Sly James. It sounds today as if he’s ready to set an emergency curfew for youngsters on the Plaza. It turns out that being shoved to the ground by a bodyguard during a shooting near him Saturday night may have helped change the mind of the mayor, who earlier seemed resistant to establishing such a curfew by himself.

Question is, would such a curfew be an overreaction to the incident that obviously was caused by one or a few punks in the crowd?

Second, one group already has failed to provide leadership on this issue: the parents of the underage youth who are hanging out late at night with no good reason. Take a look at the ages of the three youngsters shot late Saturday: 11, 15 and 16. Wonder whether any of their parents knew where they were Saturday night. Or, if they did, what they thought their children were going to do there for hours on a night after most stores had closed.

Third, the fact that it’s mostly black kids gathering on the Plaza will renew the warnings that the (mostly white) customers of the shopping district will begin avoiding it if they can’t be assured of a safe atmosphere while going out to a late weekend meal, drink or movie.

All in all, it’s a messy mix of race, parents and politicians.

But just as clearly, this is also a problem that likely will solve itself in a few weeks - to a big degree - when kids are back in school and don’t go down to the Plaza as often. And when the summer-like weather disappears in a few months, there probably won’t be any trouble at all, curfew or no curfew.

Until then, the Plaza gatherings and accompanying problems will reignite the age-old debates about what the city and police can really do to keep youngsters busy so they aren’t causing problems for adults.

Police Chief Jim Corwin and others correctly have said over the years that the real problems are the parents of the young kids allowed to go to the Plaza (or other entertainment areas) late at night.

Unfortunately, ignorant parents have been a source of trouble for years. They aren’t going to change. And that means the behavior of their children isn’t going to change.

digger
08-14-2011, 10:14 AM
let's start a

Riot (http://youtu.be/XncuY4wLaA8)

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XncuY4wLaA8" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="425"></iframe>
http://youtu.be/XncuY4wLaA8 (http://youtu.be/XncuY4wLaA8)

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 10:16 AM
I think BP mean to say "spill over WEST of Troost." The problem here is gangs of black teenagers are going to scare off rich white folk and rich white tourists, who actually spend money on the Plaza. They can go to Town Center in Leawood or the Legends in KCK, or the P&L District Downtown and not have to deal with this.



Your exactly right. Ive seen this happen in alot of cities as well. The City of KC better get a handle on it, or this will happen again.

suzzer99
08-14-2011, 10:22 AM
They'll probably just shut down the movie theaters and make the plaza more boring than it already is.

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 11:23 AM
I think BP meant to say "spill over WEST of Troost." The problem here is gangs of black teenagers are going to scare off rich white folk and rich white tourists, who actually spend money on the Plaza. They can go to Town Center in Leawood or the Legends in KCK, or the P&L District Downtown and not have to deal with this.

Mrs. OTW58 and I are coming up for the opener and had planned on staying on the Plaza.

Not anymore. Not worth it.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 11:30 AM
Mrs. OTW58 and I are coming up for the opener and had planned on staying on the Plaza.

Not anymore. Not worth it.

The Plaza is awesome. It's not a dangerous place.

LiveSteam
08-14-2011, 11:30 AM
KC aint got shit on Omaha.
Omaha had 53 shootings,& 35 murders before the temps reached 80* this spring.
This will pass after the first inch of snow hits the Metro.

Extra Point
08-14-2011, 11:33 AM
Star disabled reader comments on this article. Pretty sad.

How about no kid past 10:00 pm unaccompanied by an adult, any night, at any shopping center?

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 11:34 AM
The Plaza is awesome. It's not a dangerous place.

I spent 5 years as a STH, coming up from STL 8 times a year and staying at the Plaza each time.

We always enjoyed it.

Then again, that was before last summer's riots and this summer's shooting.

Sorry, I'd rather spend our hard-earned money somewhere I don't have to worry about this kind of thing happening. It's also why we quit going to the U-City Loop in STL. Same kind of shit was happening.

Not worth it to us.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 11:37 AM
Loitering is loitering. The parents are the key here. There's lots of parents who "drop their kids off" at a bowling alley, or mall, or in this case The Plaza, and leave them there for literally hours, then come back and pick them up at closing time or later. What are the parents doing? Going to the clubs? Gambling at the casino? They're OK with dropping their kids off -and we're talking about 11-12-13 year old kids- in an area where GUNFIRE has happened on several occasions? I can't wrap my head around that. The solution is to 1) Put a curfew in place for minors; 2) arrest minors who break the curfew; 3) Fine the parents for the first violation; 4) Arrest the parents for a second violation.

I'm afraid what is going to happen is one of these teenage hot heads is going to cross paths with a conceal and carry redneck, there's going to be serious shootings, and then we're going to have a giant problem on our hands. You can bet that the $$$ that runs the Plaza wants to nip this in the bud. They have too much money invested to let the Plaza become the next Bannister Mall.

KCChiefsFan88
08-14-2011, 11:37 AM
When I was in KC this summer, we were on the Plaza on Saturday night, and walking out of Brio's there were swarms of kids just walking up and down the street (literally with nothing to do, just walking up and down the street). You could also see cars pulling up and kids getting dropped off to join the crowd.

All the kids were black, so it would be best to stop hiding behind the PC crap and realize that this is a problem mostly in the black community.

Memo to black parents... find something to do with your kids on summer evenings that doesn't involve causing chaos.

kstater
08-14-2011, 11:38 AM
When I was in KC this summer, we were on the Plaza on Saturday night, and walking out of Brio's there were swarms of kids just walking up and down the street (literally with nothing to do, just walking up and down the street). You could also see cars pulling up and kids getting dropped off to join the crowd.

All the kids were black, so it would be best to stop hiding behind the PC crap and realize that this is a problem mostly in the black community.

Memo to black parents... find something to do with your kids on summer evenings that doesn't involve causing chaos.

Oh. My. God. They were walking up and down the street? Insane.

suzzer99
08-14-2011, 11:38 AM
Until they fix this I'd stay away from the Plaza in summer at night.

kepp
08-14-2011, 11:39 AM
Star disabled reader comments on this article. Pretty sad.

How about no kid past 10:00 pm unaccompanied by an adult, any night, at any shopping center?

Absolutely. Its just common sense, IMO. They have zero reason to be there except cause trouble.
Posted via Mobile Device

Baconeater
08-14-2011, 11:39 AM
When I was in KC this summer, we were on the Plaza on Saturday night, and walking out of Brio's there were swarms of kids just walking up and down the street (literally with nothing to do, just walking up and down the street). You could also see cars pulling up and kids getting dropped off to join the crowd.

All the kids were black, so it would be best to stop hiding behind the PC crap and realize that this is a problem mostly in the black community.

Memo to black parents... find something to do with your kids on summer evenings that doesn't involve causing chaos.

Thread gaining burst.

Smed1065
08-14-2011, 11:39 AM
Mrs. OTW58 and I are coming up for the opener and had planned on staying on the Plaza.

Not anymore. Not worth it.

Surprised by this post. Seems narrow IMO.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 11:39 AM
Star disabled reader comments on this article. Pretty sad.

How about no kid past 10:00 pm unaccompanied by an adult, any night, at any shopping center?

The Star shuts down its comments section because idiots that are a few notches to the right of the KKK get on there and spew. I don't blame The Star for shutting it down.

KCChiefsFan88
08-14-2011, 11:41 AM
Oh. My. God. They were walking up and down the street? Insane.

Anyone who has been to the Plaza can probably describe this better... but it wasn't just the usual small groups of kids walking around. This was hundreds and hundreds of kids hanging out around the intersections... it looked like a protest or something.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 11:42 AM
I spent 5 years as a STH, coming up from STL 8 times a year and staying at the Plaza each time.

We always enjoyed it.

Then again, that was before last summer's riots and this summer's shooting.

Sorry, I'd rather spend our hard-earned money somewhere I don't have to worry about this kind of thing happening. It's also why we quit going to the U-City Loop in STL. Same kind of shit was happening.

Not worth it to us.

You're talking about about an area of 10 square blocks in a major city, and there have been three incidents with a total of 3 injuries and no deaths in the last 2 years. It shouldn't happen at all, but the Plaza is about as safe a place as you'll ever find.

kstater
08-14-2011, 11:42 AM
it looked like a protest or something.

Well we certainly can't have none of that happening.

Smed1065
08-14-2011, 11:43 AM
Anyone who has been to the Plaza can probably describe this better... but it wasn't just the usual small groups of kids walking around. This was hundreds and hundreds of kids hanging out around the intersections... it looked like a protest or something.

Knew they should be home making meth.

Parents ( and I use that loosely) are the blame.

Extra Point
08-14-2011, 11:47 AM
The Star shuts down its comments section because idiots that are a few notches to the right of the KKK get on there and spew. I don't blame The Star for shutting it down.

The Star can't allow free speech? I'm not a fan of the caped ****tards, but there has to be conduit that permits free speech, if the press offers it.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 11:49 AM
The Star can't allow free speech? I'm not a fan of the caped ****tards, but there has to be conduit that permits free speech, if the press offers it.

Well, I guess at the very least the Star could point them to the CP's "DC Section." God knows there's plenty of klansmen in there....

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 11:49 AM
Well we certainly can't have none of that happening.

You can't have hundreds of unsupervised children roaming the streets in packs in the area that is considered the crown jewel of your city.

KCChiefsFan88
08-14-2011, 11:49 AM
The Star can't allow free speech? I'm not a fan of the caped ****tards, but there has to be conduit that permits free speech, if the press offers it.

The PC police don't like to hear the truth.

Black "parents" (using that term loosely since there is most likely just one parent in most cases) need to stop treating the Country Club Plaza, and other public shopping places throughout the country as if it were gov't funded daycare for their kids.

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 11:53 AM
You're talking about about an area of 10 square blocks in a major city, and there have been three incidents with a total of 3 injuries and no deaths in the last 2 years. It shouldn't happen at all, but the Plaza is about as safe a place as you'll ever find.


Sure, there have only been a handful of major incidents, but from what I've been told, nothing has changed from last year regarding the packs of unsupervised young kids roaming the area and harassing shoppers and restaurant patrons.

I chose to spend my money somewhere I don't have to worry about this happening.

And you can choose to spend your money down there, if you so choose.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 11:56 AM
Hey Olathe Chamber of Commerce, get with it! We need ads:
"Visiting KC? Stay in Olathe where it's always 70 and sunny and we DON"T have roving bands of Negroes on our streets!"

Sure-Oz
08-14-2011, 12:06 PM
fox4wdaf FOX 4 News
by KCITP
check out fox4kc.com for a live news conference on the Plaza violence w/mayor sly J ames

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 12:06 PM
Sure, there have only been a handful of major incidents, but from what I've been told, nothing has changed from last year regarding the packs of unsupervised young kids roaming the area and harassing shoppers and restaurant patrons.

I chose to spend my money somewhere I don't have to worry about this happening.

And you can choose to spend your money down there, if you so choose.

I've never once witnessed that. I don't go there as often as I used to because there are more things to do in KC now, but I am extremely familiar with the Plaza, and I have never had nor seen a problem there.

That said, one of my best friends was there during the big "riot", and she was pretty freaked out. I think the worst bit of "violence" that took place during the riots was someone getting elbowed. A purse was stolen, and some plants were pulled out of the dirt.

BWillie
08-14-2011, 12:09 PM
This is why I go to Power and Light District instead of the Plaza or Westport, at least at night.

Predarat
08-14-2011, 12:10 PM
This is the problem that shut down shopping malls. The paying customers that drive the business stop going, and find other places to spend money. After the loitering, then theft, then violence. It makes it where its not worth the price of rent for the shops and restaurants so they jump ship.

kstater
08-14-2011, 12:10 PM
That said, one of my best friends was there during the big "riot", and she was pretty freaked out. I think the worst bit of "violence" that took place during the riots was someone getting elbowed. A purse was stolen, and some plants were pulled out of the dirt.

Oh the humanity.

kstater
08-14-2011, 12:14 PM
Truly terrifying stuff:


http://www.tonyskansascity.com/2010/04/tkc-exclusive-possible-plaza-riot-and.html
Their primary form of entertainment seems to be crossing the street very slowly to hold up traffic and also physically jumping out in front of car

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 12:14 PM
Oh the humanity.

I'm saying that it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. It looked bad, and it was frightening for those who were there, but it could have been a lot worse.

KCUnited
08-14-2011, 12:15 PM
Just came from the Plaza, it looked like a Jimmy Buffet concert with Hannah Montana as the opening act.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Truly terrifying stuff:


http://www.tonyskansascity.com/2010/04/tkc-exclusive-possible-plaza-riot-and.html

That's exactly what you want to happen in your city's premier shopping and entertainment district, mobs of unsupervised children jumping in front of cars and generally antagonizing and intimidating people.

Are you even reading the comments from OTWP and others? They are changing their plans to avoid the Plaza because of this. For every person that does this, the Plaza merchants lose at least $1,000 that would have been spent at their hotels, restaurants, stores, theaters, etc.

Why some people like you and gblow seem to feel the need to excuse, deflect, minimize, and apologize for every negative action simply because they are done by blacks is beyond me.

Bearcat
08-14-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm saying that it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. It looked bad, and it was frightening for those who were there, but it could have been a lot worse.

Yeah, like 3 kids getting shot...

kstater
08-14-2011, 12:22 PM
That's exactly what you want to happen in your city's premier shopping and entertainment district, mobs of unsupervised children jumping in front of cars and generally antagonizing and intimidating people.

Are you even reading the comments from OTWP and others? They are changing their plans to avoid the Plaza because of this. For every person that does this, the Plaza merchants lose at least $1,000 that would have been spent at their hotels, restaurants, stores, theaters, etc.

Why some people like you and gblow seem to feel the need to excuse, deflect, minimize, and apologize for every negative action simply because they are done by blacks is beyond me.

I'm saying people are changing their plans and not going there because they don't want to see the black kids walking down the street.

blaise
08-14-2011, 12:23 PM
Truly terrifying stuff:


http://www.tonyskansascity.com/2010/04/tkc-exclusive-possible-plaza-riot-and.html

No, just annoying stuff that people can avoid dealing with by driving down the road to another shopping area.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 12:23 PM
Why some people like you and gblow seem to feel the need to excuse, deflect, minimize, and apologize for every negative action simply because they are done by blacks is beyond me.

Whoa? What choo talkin' bout Willis? Did you miss my post advocating a 9pm curfew right away (post #24)? Check the thread, that's NOT what I said.

http://tinyurl.com/3atgjs4

Bearcat
08-14-2011, 12:26 PM
I'm saying people are changing their plans and not going there because they don't want to see the black kids walking down the street.

Yeah, it's not the shootings or kids jumping in front of cars or people getting pushed into fountains or petty theft and vandalism that get people worked up...

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 12:28 PM
I'm saying people are changing their plans and not going there because they don't want to see the black kids walking down the street.

minimizing

lcarus
08-14-2011, 12:30 PM
I spent 5 years as a STH, coming up from STL 8 times a year and staying at the Plaza each time.

We always enjoyed it.

Then again, that was before last summer's riots and this summer's shooting.

Sorry, I'd rather spend our hard-earned money somewhere I don't have to worry about this kind of thing happening. It's also why we quit going to the U-City Loop in STL. Same kind of shit was happening.

Not worth it to us.

This kind of thing can happen anywhere.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 12:33 PM
Whoa? What choo talkin' bout Willis? Did you miss my post advocating a 9pm curfew right away (post #24)? Check the thread, that's NOT what I said.

http://tinyurl.com/3atgjs4

You fall under the "deflect" umbrella.

DanT
08-14-2011, 12:33 PM
I grew up about a block from Paseo High, which is east of Troost for those unfamiliar with KC. My two brothers and I were the only white kids in the neighborhood. My black friends and I would often go to the Plaza. Although it was a couple of miles away, it's an easy walk or bike ride. Back then, in the 1970's and 80's, the Plaza Security guards were fairly intense about making sure that we behaved ourselves. For example, they would definitely confront you if they saw you riding your bike on the sidewalk. They weren't inappropriately confrontational, in my opinion, so my friends and I weren't really all that bothered by them, although I think all of us familiar with the Plaza "cops" got a laugh from Lee Judge's KC Star cartoons about those cops.

Anyway, the Plaza was a big part of my childhood, a good place to hang out, either alone or with friends. Either to buy books or check them out from the library or to goof off at the arcade. If you don't let kids hang out in public spaces, then that takes away their chances of learning how to behave in public spaces. The converse, though, is that you need to have effective cops and social norms so that stupid behavior is not tolerated.

There are ways to police public spaces. Nonsense doesn't need to be tolerated. There's nothing wrong with junior high school age kids hanging out by themselves, without parental supervision, until sunset or even a little bit later. But the cops need to clamp down on idiotic behavior, including jaywalking. If you detain a jaywalker and require the parent to come and pick up the kid, how much jaywalking do you think you'll see? Not a whole helluva lot, after the first few parents get finished with their kid. Unless parents are a whole lot different than when I was younger--and I doubt that, given that crime rates were pretty damn high back then--you can put a stop to nonsense by deciding not to tolerate it.

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 12:35 PM
The PC police don't like to hear the truth.

Black "parents" (using that term loosely since there is most likely just one parent in most cases) need to stop treating the Country Club Plaza, and other public shopping places throughout the country as if it were gov't funded daycare for their kids.

Yes because no white kids ever run around unsupervised at malls.

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 12:36 PM
http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/08/14/00/47/1fXiDK.SlMa.81.jpg

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/08/14/00/47/koOxp.SlMa.81.jpg

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/08/13/22/42/WVs3Z.SlMa.81.jpghttp://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/08/14/00/43/Py4h6.SlMa.81.jpg

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/08/14/00/42/b03sJ.SlMa.81.jpg

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/14/3075493/police-disperse-crowds-after-plaza.html

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/08/14/00/47/1bT5WA.SlMa.81.jpg

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 12:36 PM
You fall under the "deflect" umbrella.

OK Saul, what is your solution? What do you propose they do?

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 12:42 PM
OK Saul, what is your solution? What do you propose they do?

I propose that they call white people racist. It seems to work for you.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 12:42 PM
Yes because no white kids ever run around unsupervised at malls.

That's exactly what he said. Good work.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 12:43 PM
I propose that they call white people racist. It seems to work for you.

Now who's "deflecting?"
I asked a simple question and get nothing but crickets....

Valiant
08-14-2011, 12:44 PM
I think BP meant to say "spill over WEST of Troost." The problem here is gangs of black teenagers are going to scare off rich white folk and rich white tourists, who actually spend money on the Plaza. They can go to Town Center in Leawood or the Legends in KCK, or the P&L District Downtown and not have to deal with this.

And to be clear. All peaceful, law abiding people are welcome in the Plaza. Kids -any color of kids- who are there loitering, and bringing guns and DISCHARGING guns, should be arrested, and their parents fined and jailed.

Op Ed in today's KC Star:


Plaza violence a messy mix of race, parents, politicians
http://tinyurl.com/3c63xsp

Yael T. Abouhalkah

The large gatherings of mostly black kids on weekend nights on the Country Club Plaza - marred by violence last night - will have plenty of repercussions.

First, this will be an early test of the administration of Mayor Sly James. It sounds today as if he’s ready to set an emergency curfew for youngsters on the Plaza. It turns out that being shoved to the ground by a bodyguard during a shooting near him Saturday night may have helped change the mind of the mayor, who earlier seemed resistant to establishing such a curfew by himself.

Question is, would such a curfew be an overreaction to the incident that obviously was caused by one or a few punks in the crowd?

Second, one group already has failed to provide leadership on this issue: the parents of the underage youth who are hanging out late at night with no good reason. Take a look at the ages of the three youngsters shot late Saturday: 11, 15 and 16. Wonder whether any of their parents knew where they were Saturday night. Or, if they did, what they thought their children were going to do there for hours on a night after most stores had closed.

Third, the fact that it’s mostly black kids gathering on the Plaza will renew the warnings that the (mostly white) customers of the shopping district will begin avoiding it if they can’t be assured of a safe atmosphere while going out to a late weekend meal, drink or movie.

All in all, it’s a messy mix of race, parents and politicians.

But just as clearly, this is also a problem that likely will solve itself in a few weeks - to a big degree - when kids are back in school and don’t go down to the Plaza as often. And when the summer-like weather disappears in a few months, there probably won’t be any trouble at all, curfew or no curfew.

Until then, the Plaza gatherings and accompanying problems will reignite the age-old debates about what the city and police can really do to keep youngsters busy so they aren’t causing problems for adults.

Police Chief Jim Corwin and others correctly have said over the years that the real problems are the parents of the young kids allowed to go to the Plaza (or other entertainment areas) late at night.

Unfortunately, ignorant parents have been a source of trouble for years. They aren’t going to change. And that means the behavior of their children isn’t going to change.

Set the curfew.. Arrest any kid violating it.. And when the parents come in arrest their ass to..

This is 100% parents fault.. If the parents were watching their kids, you would not have 100s of them there causing problems.. You wouldn't have the one dumb one there with a gun and decide to act bad ass..

It is not the cities fault there is not more basketball or night activities for their kids to do.. It is the parents fault, stay at home with your kids.. You have enough money to drive your kids to the plaza and let them have cell phones then you have enough money to stay at home with them while they play video games and watch movies..

ChiefsCountry
08-14-2011, 12:46 PM
Suprised not more stuff doesn't happen on the Plaza. Its kind of crazy in Kansas City you go from the nicest part of town to the worst in a couple of streets.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 12:47 PM
Now who's "deflecting?"
I asked a simple question and get nothing but crickets....

Valiant beat me to it.

evenfall
08-14-2011, 12:48 PM
We can all act PC and loving an inclusive and say this chaotic situation is no big deal and the people.who go elsewhere are too sensitive, but the bottom line is that if you have roving bands of punks harassing people, people who actually have money to spend will go elsewhere and that is even without them shooting at each other in front of the fucking cheesecake factory and sending the fucking mayor diving for cover.

All this high mindedness and PC behavior won't ring cash registers. It's escalated from mischief to violence last year to now open air shooting. I wonder what it would take for everyone on all sides to admit there is a problem. Does some shopper have to get murdered first? Because that seems like the next step in this chain...

splatbass
08-14-2011, 12:55 PM
Wow, things have really changed since I moved away in 1984.

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-14-2011, 01:03 PM
If this happened on Troost , Quindero or any other black part of the city it wouldn't even of been on the news or Chiefsplanet, because its "normal" there. Its fine when its "contained" , no one gets up in arms or pissed, or wants to do something about it..but once you see this shit happen in places like the plaza , then people are outraged?

Bwana
08-14-2011, 01:05 PM
Here we go.........

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 01:05 PM
If this happened on Troost , Quindero or any other black part of the city it wouldn't even of been on the news or Chiefsplanet, because its "normal" there. Its fine when its "contained" , no one gets up in arms or pissed, or wants to do something about it..but once you see this shit happen in places like the plaza , then people are outraged?

Well yea, duh....its because its in a high profile area of the city where people like to spend money. Thats what this whole controversy is about.

patteeu
08-14-2011, 01:07 PM
Suprised not more stuff doesn't happen on the Plaza. Its kind of crazy in Kansas City you go from the nicest part of town to the worst in a couple of streets.

You should see the University City Loop (in St. Louis) that OTWP mentioned earlier. There are the mansions of Clayton on the SW and what looks like a bombed-out warzone in the city on the NE. Or at least that's how it was when I lived there 20 years ago.

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 01:07 PM
Suprised not more stuff doesn't happen on the Plaza. Its kind of crazy in Kansas City you go from the nicest part of town to the worst in a couple of streets.

Wow, things have really changed since I moved away in 1984.

Thats what i dont understand.....The Plaza has been close to bad parts of town since forever.....why is this only happening the past few years? Did they do a better job of controlling it 20-30 years ago?

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 01:07 PM
I'm saying people are changing their plans and not going there because they don't want to see the black kids walking down the street.

I can only speak for myself, but it has nothing to do with race. I'd feel the same if these kids were white, mexican, asian, whatever.

The biggest shopping mall in STL has completely shut down because of issues like this, and the 2nd biggest is sitting at about 60% capacity - because unsupervised kids of all races/ages were causing problems.

Like I've said, for those of you that feel this isn't a big deal, then by all means - go down there and spend your money.

Those of us that feel it's not worth the potential problems/hassle will find lodging/shopping/food elsewhere.

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-14-2011, 01:08 PM
We can all act PC and loving an inclusive and say this chaotic situation is no big deal and the people.who go elsewhere are too sensitive, but the bottom line is that if you have roving bands of punks harassing people, people who actually have money to spend will go elsewhere and that is even without them shooting at each other in front of the ****ing cheesecake factory and sending the ****ing mayor diving for cover.

All this high mindedness and PC behavior won't ring cash registers. It's escalated from mischief to violence last year to now open air shooting. I wonder what it would take for everyone on all sides to admit there is a problem. Does some shopper have to get murdered first? Because that seems like the next step in this chain...

But as long as they keep in "their" neighborhood its not an issue right? Did you feel the same way when you saw the news when young people were being murdered on Troost ave ? ..I mean really, you're bitching about PC , well if you really want to be non PC , I don't think the majority of white America would give a shit if these kids got shot 3 miles east of the Plaza. It wouldn't of been on here, or in the news. The majority of White America only cares if its in their neighborhood. Well this problem wont go away unless ALL parties stop ignoring the issue and try to solve it. That means when kids get shot in the hood, I want to see the same reaction , I want to see the same outrage ..if not your just a part of the problem, and not the solution.

patteeu
08-14-2011, 01:08 PM
If this happened on Troost , Quindero or any other black part of the city it wouldn't even of been on the news or Chiefsplanet, because its "normal" there. Its fine when its "contained" , no one gets up in arms or pissed, or wants to do something about it..but once you see this shit happen in places like the plaza , then people are outraged?

Nice avatar.

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-14-2011, 01:09 PM
Nice avatar.

Nice way to ignore the truth..

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 01:11 PM
You should see the University City Loop (in St. Louis) that OTWP mentioned earlier. There are the mansions of Clayton on the SW and what looks like a bombed-out warzone in the city on the NE. Or at least that's how it was when I lived there 20 years ago.

Yep.

The Loop is really a fucking mess. Skinker Blvd is the road dividing STL County and STL City.

So when shit like this happens there - and it does quite a bit - the UCity cops just push the kids east of Skinker back into the city. Then when the business owners on the city-side of the Loop complain, the City cops push the kids back into the county.

No one is willing to do anything about it, so businesses suffer.

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-14-2011, 01:17 PM
For the record, I don't like all the young kids on the plaza or westport, and the parents need to held accountable. If you start putting parents in Jail when kids start to have multiple run ins with the law , I bet that would be a step in the right direction. What I do find curious is how people only care when it happens in places like the plaza, but wouldn't show the same outrage if it was in hood.

Reaper16
08-14-2011, 01:17 PM
The curfew is a good idea. God knows that the city, and this country, is never going to seriously examine the underlying issues behind this phenomenon, so establishing a curfew to maintain civic order is the next best thing.

That said, go to the Plaza and stop being a pussy you scared white fucks.

WoodDraw
08-14-2011, 01:20 PM
But as long as they keep in "their" neighborhood its not an issue right? Did you feel the same way when you saw the news when young people were being murdered on Troost ave ? ..I mean really, you're bitching about PC , well if you really want to be non PC , I don't think the majority of white America would give a shit if these kids got shot 3 miles east of the Plaza. It wouldn't of been on here, or in the news. The majority of White America only cares if its in their neighborhood. Well this problem wont go away unless ALL parties stop ignoring the issue and try to solve it. That means when kids get shot in the hood, I want to see the same reaction , I want to see the same outrage ..if not your just a part of the problem, and not the solution.

People always make these comments like they think they've discovered something profound. Of course a shooting happening in one of the most upscale and important tourist areas is more noteworthy than it happening in one of the more dangerous areas of a city. That's true everywhere in the world.

So no, if kids want to go riot in their neighborhood, I don't especially care, other than in the "that's sad" kind of way. Maybe then their parents will care, or at the very least know where they are.

ChiefsCountry
08-14-2011, 01:20 PM
What I do find curious is how people only care when it happens in places like the plaza, but wouldn't show the same outrage if it was in hood.

Quit trying to make it a race deal.

patteeu
08-14-2011, 01:20 PM
For the record, I don't like all the young kids on the plaza or westport, and the parents need to held accountable. If you start putting parents in Jail when kids start to have multiple run ins with the law , I bet that would be a step in the right direction. What I do find curious is how people only care when it happens in places like the plaza, but wouldn't show the same outrage if it was in hood.

Do you really find it curious? Are you retarded? It bothers people more when they can imagine themselves being affected by it. Unless you spend a lot of time at Go Chicken Go* or some other establishment on Troost, you're not likely to be impacted by hooliganism taking place over there. OTOH, if you or your loved ones visit the Plaza very often, you can easily see this being a pain in your butt, if not worse.

_____________

* I do like to stop by for some chicken livers sometimes, but I don't plan on ever walking there at night.

nstygma
08-14-2011, 01:23 PM
But as long as they keep in "their" neighborhood its not an issue right? Did you feel the same way when you saw the news when young people were being murdered on Troost ave ? ..I mean really, you're bitching about PC , well if you really want to be non PC , I don't think the majority of white America would give a shit if these kids got shot 3 miles east of the Plaza. It wouldn't of been on here, or in the news. The majority of White America only cares if its in their neighborhood. Well this problem wont go away unless ALL parties stop ignoring the issue and try to solve it. That means when kids get shot in the hood, I want to see the same reaction , I want to see the same outrage ..if not your just a part of the problem, and not the solution.does outrage prevent kids being shot in the hood? who's doing the shooting?

patteeu
08-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Nice way to ignore the truth..

I don't know what "right back at you" was supposed to mean. :shrug:

Does it mean that you think my avatar is ironic?

evenfall
08-14-2011, 01:24 PM
But as long as they keep in "their" neighborhood its not an issue right? Did you feel the same way when you saw the news when young people were being murdered on Troost ave ? ..I mean really, you're bitching about PC , well if you really want to be non PC , I don't think the majority of white America would give a shit if these kids got shot 3 miles east of the Plaza. It wouldn't of been on here, or in the news. The majority of White America only cares if its in their neighborhood. Well this problem wont go away unless ALL parties stop ignoring the issue and try to solve it. That means when kids get shot in the hood, I want to see the same reaction , I want to see the same outrage ..if not your just a part of the problem, and not the solution.

I don't give a shit about your problems, or those in your neighborhood or on your block, personally. I don't care when parents don't have enough sense to have an 11 year old at home on a Saturday night at midnight. That is an issue with adult responsibility in that community.

If you don't feel safe or just don't feel like being harassed, don't go to this area..that is what Id do and I don't think one has to apologize for that.

You can argue until you are blue in the face about these horrible racist people who won't push through throngs of unsupervised punks to shop with their children. Unless some law and order is imposed, eventually you'll be arguing over a district that has gone to shit like so many others in the urban core

If that is what you want, if you feeling fuzzy and inclusive and tolerant is your goal, go right ahead. If the problem actually is to be solved while there is still an area worth arguing over there, one might need to take the kumbaya ball gag out of their mouths and use common sense.

Valiant
08-14-2011, 01:28 PM
But as long as they keep in "their" neighborhood its not an issue right? Did you feel the same way when you saw the news when young people were being murdered on Troost ave ? ..I mean really, you're bitching about PC , well if you really want to be non PC , I don't think the majority of white America would give a shit if these kids got shot 3 miles east of the Plaza. It wouldn't of been on here, or in the news. The majority of White America only cares if its in their neighborhood. Well this problem wont go away unless ALL parties stop ignoring the issue and try to solve it. That means when kids get shot in the hood, I want to see the same reaction , I want to see the same outrage ..if not your just a part of the problem, and not the solution.


Well since you like blaming others.. I guess these so called white folks can care about others, when the parents and neighbors of these kids start caring about their own problems first.. You seriously want others to solve the problem that can be handled in home??

There is a reason why certain communities live by the mantra 'I ain't no snitch'.. They are fucking ignorant..

Just easier to blame someone else.. Next thing I am going to hear is the parents of the kids injured suing the plaza for not having enough security in place..

BigRedChief
08-14-2011, 01:30 PM
The curfew is a good idea. God knows that the city, and this country, is never going to seriously examine the underlying issues behind this phenomenon, so establishing a curfew to maintain civic order is the next best thing.

That said, go to the Plaza and stop being a pussy you scared white fucks.It's not a KC thing. There are two neighborhood's down here in St.Pete. Both lower middle class. Some trashy yards, not well maintained residences etc. You have to drive through these neighborhoods to get to the prime waterfront property.

One neighborhood is predominately white, one is predominately black. Only a mile or so apart. Same styles of housing. Same basic water views.

Which one do you think you will be able to buy the same exact house for $75-100K less? And everyone knows it, its so obvious. It really pissed us off to discover the discrepency. Just flat out naked racism.

patteeu
08-14-2011, 01:33 PM
It's not a KC thing. There are two neighborhood's down here in St.Pete. Both lower middle class. Some trashy yards, not well maintained residences etc. You have to drive through these neighborhoods to get to the prime waterfront property.

One neighborhood is predominately white, one is predominately black. Only a mile or so apart. Same styles of housing. Same basic water views.

Which one do you think you will be able to buy the same exact house for $75-100K less? And everyone knows it, its so obvious. It really pissed us off to discover the discrepency. Just flat out naked racism.

You should buy one of the cheaper ones and get a bargain.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 01:36 PM
But as long as they keep in "their" neighborhood its not an issue right? Did you feel the same way when you saw the news when young people were being murdered on Troost ave ? ..I mean really, you're bitching about PC , well if you really want to be non PC , I don't think the majority of white America would give a shit if these kids got shot 3 miles east of the Plaza. It wouldn't of been on here, or in the news. The majority of White America only cares if its in their neighborhood. Well this problem wont go away unless ALL parties stop ignoring the issue and try to solve it. That means when kids get shot in the hood, I want to see the same reaction , I want to see the same outrage ..if not your just a part of the problem, and not the solution.

Pretty much. I don't care if you take a shit in the middle of the living room in your house nearly as much as I'd care if you took a shit in the middle of the living room in MY house. What a crazy concept!

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 01:37 PM
It's not a KC thing. There are two neighborhood's down here in St.Pete. Both lower middle class. Some trashy yards, not well maintained residences etc. You have to drive through these neighborhoods to get to the prime waterfront property.

One neighborhood is predominately white, one is predominately black. Only a mile or so apart. Same styles of housing. Same basic water views.

Which one do you think you will be able to buy the same exact house for $75-100K less? And everyone knows it, its so obvious. It really pissed us off to discover the discrepency. Just flat out naked racism.

I feel ya, man. It sucks that whites have to pay so much more for houses.

splatbass
08-14-2011, 01:39 PM
Thats what i dont understand.....The Plaza has been close to bad parts of town since forever.....why is this only happening the past few years? Did they do a better job of controlling it 20-30 years ago?

Good question.

patteeu
08-14-2011, 01:41 PM
Good question.

Pretty much answered in post 59.

gblowfish
08-14-2011, 01:44 PM
From KC Star website:
http://tinyurl.com/3sxoqvt

Mayor to discuss control of teen crowds on Plaza
By ERIC ADLER
The Kansas City Star

In the wake of Saturday night's shootings on the Country Club Plaza that which three minors to the hospital, Mayor Sly James is to outline strategies to control teenage crowds at Kansas City’s premier shopping district during a news conference at 1 p.m.

Danny Rotert, the mayor’s spokesman, said James also is expected to send a strong message to parents who allow their children, some as young as 10 years old, to be out in the city unattended late at night.

The shootings occurred around 11:30 p.m. Saturday near 47th Street and Wyandotte Avenue while the mayor toured the Plaza to assess weekend crowds of young people and the possible need for a curfew. The city of Philadelphia this week instituted a 9 p.m. curfew this weekend after a summer of teenage violence. James had been considering a similar move for parts of Kansas City.

Two boys and a girl — 13, 15 and 16 years old — were wounded the shootings. A bullet grazed the girl’s face, and two boys were shot in their legs. None of the injuries was life-threatening.

James was about 50 yards down the street from where the shootings broke out. Rotert says the mayor was unhurt and the three youths were in stable condition Sunday.

Kansas City police continue to investigate the shooting and interview witnesses. Police said some of the witnesses apparently know the shooters' identities but are reluctant to reveal their names.

Police and other community leaders also are expected to attend the press conference at City Hall.

BigRedChief
08-14-2011, 01:48 PM
You should buy one of the cheaper ones and get a bargain.If our house sells this afternoon, we got the house picked out. This one is probably $130-$150K less for being in the "bad" area. It's like a frikking state park, except its your house. ohh wellll their loss, our gain.

http://photos2.zillow.com/is/image/i0/i8/i4710/IS1qogifjolyeg3.jpg?op_sharpen=1&qlt=90&hei=446&wid=596

blaise
08-14-2011, 02:15 PM
For the record, I don't like all the young kids on the plaza or westport, and the parents need to held accountable. If you start putting parents in Jail when kids start to have multiple run ins with the law , I bet that would be a step in the right direction. What I do find curious is how people only care when it happens in places like the plaza, but wouldn't show the same outrage if it was in hood.

Because murders in the hood don't keep people from spending money in the city. Why are you so confused? People shouldn't worry about their city's economy?

blaise
08-14-2011, 02:17 PM
It's not a KC thing. There are two neighborhood's down here in St.Pete. Both lower middle class. Some trashy yards, not well maintained residences etc. You have to drive through these neighborhoods to get to the prime waterfront property.

One neighborhood is predominately white, one is predominately black. Only a mile or so apart. Same styles of housing. Same basic water views.

Which one do you think you will be able to buy the same exact house for $75-100K less? And everyone knows it, its so obvious. It really pissed us off to discover the discrepency. Just flat out naked racism.

It's racist that the black area pays less? Are they the same school district? Are the schools rated the same?

BigRedChief
08-14-2011, 02:33 PM
It's racist that the black area pays less? Are they the same school district? Are the schools rated the same?Not the same school district but the "black" school district is more highly rated.

The market deterrmines price. Whatever someone is willing to pay is exactly what its worth.

It is racism that "white" real estate buyers don't want to drive through "black" neighborhoods to get to the waterfront properites so they will pay $75-$100K more to drive through "white" neighborhoods. Just because its not illegal or proveable racism doesn't make it morally right.

blaise
08-14-2011, 02:57 PM
Not the same school district but the "black" school district is more highly rated.

The market deterrmines price. Whatever someone is willing to pay is exactly what its worth.

It is racism that "white" real estate buyers don't want to drive through "black" neighborhoods to get to the waterfront properites so they will pay $75-$100K more to drive through "white" neighborhoods. Just because its not illegal or proveable racism doesn't make it morally right.

I don't think it makes it morally wrong either. People tend to gravitate toward people that are similar to them. When I saw the black college students sit together in a dining hall I didn't consider it racist.

stevieray
08-14-2011, 03:02 PM
For the record, I don't like all the young kids on the plaza or westport, and the parents need to held accountable. If you start putting parents in Jail when kids start to have multiple run ins with the law , I bet that would be a step in the right direction. What I do find curious is how people only care when it happens in places like the plaza, but wouldn't show the same outrage if it was in hood.My outrage over shootings in the hood is how miraculously there are never any witnesses, and the vicious cycle of death/crime continues.

Reaper16
08-14-2011, 03:11 PM
My outrage over shootings in the hood is how miraculously there are never any witnesses, and the vicious cycle of death/crime continues.
Not that simple. People don't want to be witnesses out of fear for their lives.

Al Bundy
08-14-2011, 03:13 PM
If our house sells this afternoon, we got the house picked out. This one is probably $130-$150K less for being in the "bad" area. It's like a frikking state park, except its your house. ohh wellll their loss, our gain.

http://photos2.zillow.com/is/image/i0/i8/i4710/IS1qogifjolyeg3.jpg?op_sharpen=1&qlt=90&hei=446&wid=596

Is that what you're looking to buy? If so that looks awesome. Where are those in St. Pete?

Al Bundy
08-14-2011, 03:17 PM
My outrage over shootings in the hood is how miraculously there are never any witnesses, and the vicious cycle of death/crime continues.

People don't see anything mostly because they and/or their families will be targeted by the offenders family or fellow gang members.

BigRedChief
08-14-2011, 03:21 PM
Is that what you're looking to buy? If so that looks awesome. Where are those in St. Pete?yep, thats our house, if we get ours in KC sold soon. Working for "The Man" has its perks.

About 6 mintues south of Downtown St. Pete and the Pier.

http://photos3.zillow.com/is/image/i0/i8/i4710/IS7e8i2xchtler.jpg?op_sharpen=1&qlt=90&hei=446&wid=596

Demonpenz
08-14-2011, 03:23 PM
I was at george bretts on the plaza telling people how George Brett should have been pulled for Kieth Miller in the 7th and Hal Mcrae threw a phone at me.

Al Bundy
08-14-2011, 03:33 PM
yep, thats our house, if we get ours in KC sold soon. Working for "The Man" has its perks.

About 6 mintues south of Downtown St. Pete and the Pier.

http://photos3.zillow.com/is/image/i0/i8/i4710/IS7e8i2xchtler.jpg?op_sharpen=1&qlt=90&hei=446&wid=596

Very nice. That is the only thing I miss about loving down there is living on the water.

stevieray
08-14-2011, 03:33 PM
People don't see anything mostly because they and/or their families will be targeted by the offenders family or fellow gang members.

and?

stevieray
08-14-2011, 03:37 PM
Not that simple. People don't want to be witnesses out of fear for their lives.

sorry, I don't subscribe to your brand of racism.

Al Bundy
08-14-2011, 03:37 PM
and?

they probably don't want to get killed...

Reaper16
08-14-2011, 03:38 PM
and?

sorry, I don't subscribe to your brand of racism.
wut

loce1959
08-14-2011, 03:41 PM
The curfew is a good idea. God knows that the city, and this country, is never going to seriously examine the underlying issues behind this phenomenon, so establishing a curfew to maintain civic order is the next best thing.

That said, go to the Plaza and stop being a pussy you scared white ****s. Yeah, it's not like someone was shooting a gun or anything you f***ing tool. Who gives a s**t about the underlying issues. Take care of your kids, be a parent.

stevieray
08-14-2011, 03:41 PM
they probably don't want to get killed...
...and as long as fear reigns supreme, nothing will change.

...it's not like it would be the first time people stood up for the right thing, even at the risk of losing their lives...

it's not an excuse, it's part of the symptom.

Valiant
08-14-2011, 03:42 PM
People don't see anything mostly because they and/or their families will be targeted by the offenders family or fellow gang members.

That's BS and just perpetuates the problem.. They do not want to own their problem that they keep on allowing to happen.. Everyone in those situations can say they know someone that has been killed or know someone that killed someone else.. It takes their whole community to say no..

Nope, just easier to keep your mouth shut and blame others.. At least some smart people try and move out..

The reason why low/no crime areas do not have this problem is they will talk when something happens..

Al Bundy
08-14-2011, 03:43 PM
I'm not saying it is the correct way to go. Just stating how it happens.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 03:51 PM
Not that simple. People don't want to be witnesses out of fear for their lives.

Are people afraid that they will be killed if they don't wear clothing that tells people not to snitch?

http://www.zazzle.com/anti+snitch+tshirts

|Zach|
08-14-2011, 03:55 PM
You're talking about about an area of 10 square blocks in a major city, and there have been three incidents with a total of 3 injuries and no deaths in the last 2 years. It shouldn't happen at all, but the Plaza is about as safe a place as you'll ever find.

Agereed. I know it is easy to spook suburbanites and everything but if you are not doing things you shouldn't be doing in places you shouldn't be doing with people you should not be around you are pretty safe in Kansas City.

Chocolate Hog
08-14-2011, 04:00 PM
Is U-City on the right hand side of 70 when you're heading east first getting into St.Louis? Because whatever that is looks like major slums.

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-14-2011, 04:00 PM
I don't give a shit about your problems, or those in your neighborhood or on your block, personally. I don't care when parents don't have enough sense to have an 11 year old at home on a Saturday night at midnight. That is an issue with adult responsibility in that community.

If you don't feel safe or just don't feel like being harassed, don't go to this area..that is what Id do and I don't think one has to apologize for that.

You can argue until you are blue in the face about these horrible racist people who won't push through throngs of unsupervised punks to shop with their children. Unless some law and order is imposed, eventually you'll be arguing over a district that has gone to shit like so many others in the urban core

If that is what you want, if you feeling fuzzy and inclusive and tolerant is your goal, go right ahead. If the problem actually is to be solved while there is still an area worth arguing over there, one might need to take the kumbaya ball gag out of their mouths and use common sense.

Yah..you have the right attitude to fix the problem.

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 04:08 PM
Is U-City on the right hand side of 70 when you're heading east first getting into St.Louis? Because whatever that is looks like major slums.

No.

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-14-2011, 04:09 PM
This is Kansas City for you. The white power district, I mean Power and Light, dress codes at clubs ( no dress codes in L.A or N.Y clubs)..one of the most segregated cities in America. All you have to do is look at Troost and Holmes. That`s why I shouldn't be that surprised at some of these post..."we don't care if kids get killed..just not in OUR neighborhoods" mentality. If you're too dumb or just to lazy to think beyond that type of thinking , then you're just as stupid as the people who go by the "no snitching" mentality or the horrible parents who allowed a 11 year old to be on the plaza that late at night.

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 04:10 PM
...That means when kids get shot in the hood, I want to see the same reaction , I want to see the same outrage ..if not your just a part of the problem, and not the solution.

I, for one, hereby pledge that I will be OUTRAGED the first time I see plaza shopkeepers marauding through the hood, harrassing residents. And the day a plaza shopkeeper or patron goes to the hood and shoots someone....FORGETABOUTIT...i'm going to show everybody a "solution."

Chocolate Hog
08-14-2011, 04:11 PM
No.

What part of town is that called? It's a total shitstain to the rest of the city when it's one of the first things you as an outsider.

patteeu
08-14-2011, 04:29 PM
Is U-City on the right hand side of 70 when you're heading east first getting into St.Louis? Because whatever that is looks like major slums.

It is on the right hand side, but it's too far south to see from I-70. You might be thinking of some neighborhoods in St. Louis city itself or, if you're out closer to the airport, there are some pretty shady areas there too, like Belridge and Kinlock (close to UMSL). I lived at the intersection of I-70 and Hanley Rd (just east of I-170) for a while and I used to hear sirens all the time and the occasional gunshot.

Lonewolf Ed
08-14-2011, 04:36 PM
Hey Olathe Chamber of Commerce, get with it! We need ads:
"Visiting KC? Stay in Olathe where it's always 70 and sunny and we DON"T have roving bands of Negroes on our streets!"

If Olathe does that, the ad will have to be printed in Spanish, too.

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 04:38 PM
What part of town is that called? It's a total shitstain to the rest of the city when it's one of the first things you as an outsider.

It is on the right hand side, but it's too far south to see from I-70. You might be thinking of some neighborhoods in St. Louis city itself or, if you're out closer to the airport, there are some pretty shady areas there too, like Belridge and Kinlock (close to UMSL). I lived at the intersection of I-70 and Hanley Rd (just east of I-170) for a while and I used to hear sirens all the time and the occasional gunshot.

Give or take a few blocks, anything north of the red line and east of I-170 is the worst STL has to offer.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2aexy0h.jpg

patteeu
08-14-2011, 04:40 PM
Give or take a few blocks, anything north of the red line and east of I-170 is the worst STL has to offer.



Agree.

Predarat
08-14-2011, 04:41 PM
One thing they could do is re open the some of the abandoned malls, fill some of the stores with consignment items bought on the cheap. They would charge admission to get into malls, that would pay for the upkeep of the malls and the consignment items. Let the kids steal and shoplift, as part of the admission cost would go to the consignment items. So now they have a place they can hang out without bothering anyone but themselves. Thay can loiter, shoplift, do pretty much what they want to do and hopefully someone can make some money out of admission costs. You would not have to do much to the malls as far as maintence goes as it would be turned to shit anyways.

evenfall
08-14-2011, 04:43 PM
This is Kansas City for you. The white power district, I mean Power and Light, dress codes at clubs ( no dress codes in L.A or N.Y clubs)..one of the most segregated cities in America. All you have to do is look at Troost and Holmes. That`s why I shouldn't be that surprised at some of these post..."we don't care if kids get killed..just not in OUR neighborhoods" mentality. If you're too dumb or just to lazy to think beyond that type of thinking , then you're just as stupid as the people who go by the "no snitching" mentality or the horrible parents who allowed a 11 year old to be on the plaza that late at night.

No, I'm not just as stupid as those with kids running around unsupervised. i and mine as at home not causing trouble. Therefore I am not part of the problem.

Make sure you go down and hug them all next weekend, maybe you can show them the photos in your wallet while you're at it.

evenfall
08-14-2011, 04:47 PM
I, for one, hereby pledge that I will be OUTRAGED the first time I see plaza shopkeepers marauding through the hood, harrassing residents. And the day a plaza shopkeeper or patron goes to the hood and shoots someone....FORGETABOUTIT...i'm going to show everybody a "solution."

Me too, I am sick of those Benz driving grandmas and trophy wives going over across 71 and causing trouble.

Al Bundy
08-14-2011, 04:50 PM
This is Kansas City for you. The white power district, I mean Power and Light, dress codes at clubs ( no dress codes in L.A or N.Y clubs)..

You do realize it is the ethnic owned clubs that have the dress codes as well right?

Thig Lyfe
08-14-2011, 04:51 PM
One thing they could do is re open the some of the abandoned malls, fill some of the stores with consignment items bought on the cheap. They would charge admission to get into malls, that would pay for the upkeep of the malls and the consignment items. Let the kids steal and shoplift, as part of the admission cost would go to the consignment items. So now they have a place they can hang out without bothering anyone but themselves. Thay can loiter, shoplift, do pretty much what they want to do and hopefully someone can make some money out of admission costs. You would not have to do much to the malls as far as maintence goes as it would be turned to shit anyways.

Hamsterdam.

Reaper16
08-14-2011, 04:52 PM
Yeah, it's not like someone was shooting a gun or anything you f***ing tool. Who gives a s**t about the underlying issues. Take care of your kids, be a parent.
Censor evasion.

KC native
08-14-2011, 04:55 PM
Haven't read the thread, but has Zach's NIMBY ass made it into this thread?

KC native
08-14-2011, 05:07 PM
The curfew is a good idea. God knows that the city, and this country, is never going to seriously examine the underlying issues behind this phenomenon, so establishing a curfew to maintain civic order is the next best thing.

That said, go to the Plaza and stop being a pussy you scared white fucks.

THIS.

Baconeater
08-14-2011, 05:13 PM
The curfew is a good idea. God knows that the city, and this country, is never going to seriously examine the underlying issues behind this phenomenon, so establishing a curfew to maintain civic order is the next best thing.

That said, go to the Plaza and stop being a pussy you scared white fucks.
Um, I'm pretty sure that the city, and the country, are aware of what the issues are behind this, but it's not their responsibility to find more constructive things for these kids to do.

Christ, stop having kids if you don't have the goddamn desire to raise them. That's what the solution is.

Bill Brasky
08-14-2011, 05:17 PM
This is easy. A curfew for minors will be enforced as soon as the shops close.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 05:26 PM
This is Kansas City for you. The white power district, I mean Power and Light, dress codes at clubs ( no dress codes in L.A or N.Y clubs)..one of the most segregated cities in America. All you have to do is look at Troost and Holmes. That`s why I shouldn't be that surprised at some of these post..."we don't care if kids get killed..just not in OUR neighborhoods" mentality. If you're too dumb or just to lazy to think beyond that type of thinking , then you're just as stupid as the people who go by the "no snitching" mentality or the horrible parents who allowed a 11 year old to be on the plaza that late at night.

The worst part about the dress codes at Power and Light is the fact that they don't even work to curb violence. People get shot there all the time. White people are always pulling guns on each other in the P&L. And by "always", I mean "never".

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-14-2011, 05:29 PM
The worst part about the dress codes at Power and Light is the fact that they don't even work to curb violence. People get shot there all the time. White people are always pulling guns on each other in the P&L. And by "always", I mean "never".



Yah keep THEM out right...no black people means no violence:thumb:

Spott
08-14-2011, 05:30 PM
http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/08/14/00/47/koOxp.SlMa.81.jpg


Hey dumbass kid in the blue shirt. Try wearing a belt instead of walking around like an idiot holding your pants up everywhere you go.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 05:30 PM
Yah keep THEM out right...no black people means no violence:thumb:

No idiots dressed like gang bangers means a lot less chance of violence.

Spott
08-14-2011, 05:34 PM
What exactly is the dress code for the P&L district?

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 05:36 PM
( no dress codes in L.A or N.Y clubs)

You are absolutely correct. And by "correct", I mean you are retarded, have no idea what you are talking about, and are completely wrong.

Many clubs in NY and LA won't even let you in if you're wearing sneakers, dumbfuck.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 05:37 PM
What exactly is the dress code for the P&L district?

It has almost no dress code, actually. It's very loose.

"The following is not permitted under the KC Live! dress code: sleeveless shirts on men; profanity on clothing; sweat pants or full sweat suits; bandanas; exposed undergarments (including undershirts) on men."

Oh the humanity!!!

Rams Fan
08-14-2011, 05:38 PM
The biggest shopping mall in STL has completely shut down because of issues like this, and the 2nd biggest is sitting at about 60% capacity - because unsupervised kids of all races/ages were causing problems.
.

Crestwood and I'm guessing the other mall you're talking about is the Galleria?

ChiefsCountry
08-14-2011, 05:38 PM
What exactly is the dress code for the P&L district?

http://www.powerandlightdistrict.com/index.cfm?page=info

Predarat
08-14-2011, 05:44 PM
It has almost no dress code, actually. It's very loose.

"The following is not permitted under the KC Live! dress code: sleeveless shirts on men; profanity on clothing; sweat pants or full sweat suits; bandanas; exposed undergarments (including undershirts) on men."

Oh the humanity!!!

Thats racist against white rednecks. We need a white Al Sharpton to raise hell about this!

doomy3
08-14-2011, 05:45 PM
It has almost no dress code, actually. It's very loose.

"The following is not permitted under the KC Live! dress code: sleeveless shirts on men; profanity on clothing; sweat pants or full sweat suits; bandanas; exposed undergarments (including undershirts) on men."

Oh the humanity!!!

IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 05:56 PM
This is Kansas City for you. The white power district, I mean Power and Light, dress codes at clubs ( no dress codes in L.A or N.Y clubs)..one of the most segregated cities in America.

I'll be sure not to think that your stupidity is representative of all blacks.

10. Los Angeles
9. Philadelphia
8. Cincinnati
7. St. Louis
6. Buffalo, N.Y.
5. Cleveland
4. Detroit
3. Chicago
2. New York
1. Milwaukee

http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/u-s-2010-census-the-10-most-segregated-cities-in-america/

ThatRaceCardGuy
08-14-2011, 06:12 PM
You are absolutely correct. And by "correct", I mean you are retarded, have no idea what you are talking about, and are completely wrong.

Many clubs in NY and LA won't even let you in if you're wearing sneakers, dumb****.

So...I guess when I was in L.A last year , and was let into a club with the same outfit that PL wouldn't allow me to wear I`m wrong..say thing happened with a friend who was in NY also..same outfit, both clubs let us in, same out fit in KC at Power and White, couldn't get in....so yah dumbass, I think I know what the hell Im talking about.

doomy3
08-14-2011, 06:15 PM
So...I guess when I was in L.A last year , and was let into a club with the same outfit that PL wouldn't allow me to wear I`m wrong..say thing happened with a friend who was in NY also..same outfit, both clubs let us in, same out fit in KC at Power and White, couldn't get in....so yah dumbass, I think I know what the hell Im talking about.

What was the outfit?

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 06:16 PM
So...I guess when I was in L.A last year , and was let into a club with the same outfit that PL wouldn't allow me to wear I`m wrong..say thing happened with a friend who was in NY also..same outfit, both clubs let us in, same out fit in KC at Power and White, couldn't get in....so yah dumbass, I think I know what the hell Im talking about.

So because A club in NY and LA didn't have a dress code, you mistakenly thought that NO clubs in NY and LA have dress codes? You people piss me off.

And by "you people", I mean dumbfucks.

Spott
08-14-2011, 06:18 PM
It has almost no dress code, actually. It's very loose.

"The following is not permitted under the KC Live! dress code: sleeveless shirts on men; profanity on clothing; sweat pants or full sweat suits; bandanas; exposed undergarments (including undershirts) on men."

Oh the humanity!!!

That's it? I don't see the problem or how that is racist in any way.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 06:22 PM
That's it? I don't see the problem or how that is racist in any way.

Obviously black people are only able to wear profanity-laced garments.

Spott
08-14-2011, 06:26 PM
Obviously black people are only able to wear profanity-laced garments.

And wife beaters.

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 06:33 PM
Thatguy must not be familiar with a little thing called Google. It makes it really easy to debunk his bullshit claims with a few keystrokes.

Clubs in LA and NY don't have dress codes? Interesting:

http://reallyducksoup.blogspot.com/2011/07/dress-codes-in-new-york-clubs-will-this.html
"Beyond being inherently snobbish, such selectivity has invited charges of racism. In December, the New York City Commission on Human Rights opened an investigation (still in progress) into the Continental, a sports bar in the East Village on Third Avenue, for its “no baggy jeans or bling” policy, which civil rights groups called a barely concealed ploy to keep out blacks. Trigger Smith, the owner of the Continental, denied that he was trying to exclude people of a certain race. “It just so happens that more minorities wear these” kinds of clothes, he told The New York Times in January. “There isn’t a racist bone in my body.” One reason some may have found the Continental’s policy hard to swallow is the bar’s otherwise obvious lack of interest in fashion. On a typical Saturday night, the Continental’s mixture of frat boys and barflies sports an unironic mélange of ripped blue jeans, grubby backpacks, baseball hats and sneakers. (And for what it’s worth, the crowd was about 30 percent black on a visit in April.)"


You may find this handy, thatguy...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Do+clubs+in+Los+Angeles+have+dress+codes%3F

stlchiefs
08-14-2011, 06:45 PM
So because A club in NY and LA didn't have a dress code, you mistakenly thought that NO clubs in NY and LA have dress codes? You people piss me off.

And by "you people", I mean dumb****s.

BOOM. Common sense and reading comprehension are a bitch. :thumb:

Saul Good
08-14-2011, 07:24 PM
If anyone is worried that KC is horribly racist against blacks, please direct your comments to our mayor.

BWillie
08-14-2011, 08:03 PM
So...I guess when I was in L.A last year , and was let into a club with the same outfit that PL wouldn't allow me to wear I`m wrong..say thing happened with a friend who was in NY also..same outfit, both clubs let us in, same out fit in KC at Power and White, couldn't get in....so yah dumbass, I think I know what the hell Im talking about.

I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say the Power and Light has a strict dress code. I've worn completely crappy attire and got in there. You really have to try to not get in there. There are many predominantly black clubs all over town that have a much, much, much stricter dress code than Power and Light.

|Zach|
08-14-2011, 08:05 PM
ThatGuy is embarrassingly misinformed.

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 08:06 PM
Crestwood and I'm guessing the other mall you're talking about is the Galleria?

Northwest Plaza and the Galleria.

BigRedChief
08-14-2011, 08:12 PM
If anyone is worried that KC is horribly racist against blacks, please direct your comments to our mayor.I've known Sly for over 7 years. He's a long time Chief fan. We have worked together over at the Coalition on some charity work. We have bantered politics and football many a time.

He is defintely not a politician but saw the direction of KC and wanted to do something to change the direction.

Extra Point
08-14-2011, 08:21 PM
I don't know Sly, but I see how he was able to fund his mayoral campaign. Kind of like a John Edwards, only he's, well, different. Kudos to him, all the same. I like how he's aligned with Alvin Brooks, and that those men took part in the gathering prior. This will all work out-- these men have cajones, and will make KCMO a better place. Obama may think that he's made his bones being a community organizer, but Mr. Brooks has stayed true to the KC community, and for that, he has earned the respect of the KC metro folks.

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 08:22 PM
So...I guess when I was in L.A last year , and was let into a club with the same outfit that PL wouldn't allow me to wear I`m wrong..say thing happened with a friend who was in NY also..same outfit, both clubs let us in, same out fit in KC at Power and White, couldn't get in....so yah dumbass, I think I know what the hell Im talking about.

:BS:

Spott
08-14-2011, 08:24 PM
What was the outfit?

He was in drag.

Saul Good
08-15-2011, 07:40 PM
This thing made the Drudge Report today.

Saul Good
08-15-2011, 07:43 PM
"Hundreds of teens" were there when it happened sometime after midnight. Good work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8qxyPEHkyI

Deberg_1990
08-15-2011, 07:47 PM
Absolutley 100% on the parents of these kids. What kind of parent drops an 11 to 15 year kid off at night on the plaza unsupervised? WTF?

I have no idea how u change a a parental culture of stupidity though?

Saul Good
08-15-2011, 08:16 PM
When's Dottefan going to come back and take his medicine?

He says that LA and NY don't have dress codes in their clubs. I post proof showing that they do.

He calls KC one of the most segregated cities in the country. I post a link showing that KC is the 39th most segregated city in the country whereas NY is #2, and LA is #10.

He should be back any time now. His curfew just started 16 minutes ago.

Al Bundy
08-15-2011, 08:18 PM
He's a fucking douche.

T-post Tom
08-16-2011, 12:19 AM
The mayor’s final conversation with some children came as he was driven out of the area, well past midnight. James spotted two girls standing near the corner of 47th and Main streets and told his driver to stop.

The girls were 10 and 12 years old. They were waiting for their mother to pick them up.


Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/14/3076633/kc-mayor-bodyguards-reject-excuses.html#storylink=omni_popular#ixzz1VAadSbwm