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T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 01:06 PM
Gaither will get his first look at left tackle

The Chiefs won't practice until later this afternoon and coach Todd Haley said when they do, the recently signed Jared Gaither will be working as a left tackle.

Gaither can eventually be moved to right tackle if the Chiefs see the need. But at least to start, he'll be on the left side.

Interesting move but not unexpected. In his two seasons as Baltimore's starting left tackle, Gaither was better than Branden Albert has been during his time as the Chiefs' starter at that position.

If Gaither works out the way the Chiefs hope, Albert should probably prepare to make the move over to the other side of the line himself.

Meantime, the Chiefs need to get Gaither into playing shape.

''This is a guy that's been out, hasn't been part of an off-season program, like everybody else,'' Haley said. ''He also missed a couple of weeks so even thought I believe hes been working on his own, the number one deal for him is going to be the strength and conditioning aspect. He got a couple of good workouts over the weekend and were going to continue that.''

''First and foremost is trying to get him into a baseline physical condition that we feel like gives him a chance to succeed.''

http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/1776

petegz28
08-14-2011, 01:08 PM
Not sure what to make of this? Need CP to tell me what to think...

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:09 PM
r

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 01:11 PM
Brandon Albert wake up call! Nice call Pioli and Haley

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 01:12 PM
r

not so much

BigChiefFan
08-14-2011, 01:12 PM
I like the move. Nothing is set in concrete, but it sends a message to Albert to play like what is expected of him or he will be replaced.

Pawnmower
08-14-2011, 01:15 PM
retard

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:18 PM
not so much

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=248361&page=23

KurtCobain
08-14-2011, 01:21 PM
I like the brandon albert wake up call as well.

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 01:22 PM
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=248361&page=23

That's deceptive, hiding it in an older, semi-related thread. I need a ruling by the repost council on this one.

bowener
08-14-2011, 01:23 PM
That's deceptive, hiding it in an older, semi-related thread. I need a ruling by the repost council on this one.

You're cleared of any wrong doing.

Brock
08-14-2011, 01:28 PM
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=248361&page=23

That's not a repost dumbass. This deserves its own thread. Go back to your dumbass megathread.

petegz28
08-14-2011, 01:28 PM
You're cleared of any wrong doing.

I 2nd the motion

KurtCobain
08-14-2011, 01:29 PM
You're cleared of any wrong doing.

Pending payment of ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

http://kingdomofstyle.typepad.co.uk/.a/6a00d8341c2f0953ef010535f1327c970b-500wi

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:34 PM
That's not a repost dumbass. This deserves its own thread. Go back to your dumbass megathread.

You mad bro

patteeu
08-14-2011, 01:34 PM
That's deceptive, hiding it in an older, semi-related thread. I need a ruling by the repost council on this one.

It's perfectly acceptable to break an important bit of news out into it's own thread after it's been buried in an older, semi-related thread. Official ruling: No Repost.

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:36 PM
It's perfectly acceptable to break an important bit of news out into it's own thread after it's been buried in an older, semi-related thread. Official ruling: No Repost.

All haley said was he was gonna start him at LT and go from there. So if gaither takes a shit wanna start another thread? http://www.kcchiefs.com/

-King-
08-14-2011, 01:37 PM
All haley said was he was gonna start him at LT and go from there. So if gaither takes a shit wanna start another thread? http://www.kcchiefs.com/

Guy, shut the fuck up and stick to twitter.

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:39 PM
Guy, shut the **** up and stick to twitter.

Somebody is mad...

tonyetony
08-14-2011, 01:39 PM
Finally some much needed and way overdue competition at LT.

DaFace
08-14-2011, 01:40 PM
Somebody is mad...

And you wonder why the mods won't help you out.
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:40 PM
If Gaither was coming in as a starter, he'd be starting at RT. Since he's coming in as a backup, it only makes sense. Beginning to get in shape, would start on his comfortable side, on the left. Until I see Albert starting to practice at another position, B Rich taking snaps as a G, etc, there's really nothing to talk about. When and If Gaither gets in Haley shape, he'll be utilized where Haley and Muir thinks he's best

Bwana
08-14-2011, 01:41 PM
That's deceptive, hiding it in an older, semi-related thread. I need a ruling by the repost council on this one.

You're all good.

BossChief
08-14-2011, 01:42 PM
All haley said was he was gonna start him at LT and go from there. So if gaither takes a shit wanna start another thread? http://www.kcchiefs.com/

if Albert wakes up and starts playing to his potential...and Gaither gets moved to the right side, I except someone to start a new thread about it and they should.

thanks for the twitter shit during fa though.

How long till we can find out what kind of a deal this guy signed?

The Bad Guy
08-14-2011, 01:44 PM
You mad bro

You came on here as the Twitter king and you've turned into a complete cockbag in a short time.

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:47 PM
You came on here as the Twitter king and you've turned into a complete cockbag in a short time.

LOL how would you feel if the mods changed your name for no reason and banned me from starting a thread.

The Bad Guy
08-14-2011, 01:49 PM
LOL how would you feel if the mods changed your name for no reason and banned me from starting a thread.

It's a fucking message board.

File a civil right's claim.

The Bad Guy
08-14-2011, 01:50 PM
If Gaither is signed for more than one year, which I hope, then I wouldn't be shocked to see Albert at LG next year.

-King-
08-14-2011, 01:50 PM
It's a fucking message board.

File a civil right's claim.

ROFLROFLROFL

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:51 PM
If Gaither is signed for more than one year, which I hope, then I wouldn't be shocked to see Albert at LG next year.

Jason cole of yahoo sports said its a 1 year deal.

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 01:52 PM
... there's really nothing to talk about.

First thought: If there's nothing to talk about, why did you post it at all?
Second thought: The lack of humility before the greatness that is Adam Teicher that's being displayed here, uh... staggers me. (Thanks Ian, er Jeff.)

The Bad Guy
08-14-2011, 01:53 PM
Well, if it's a one-year deal then he can audition for an extension.

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 01:57 PM
If i pissed anyone off I'm sorry.

Sure-Oz
08-14-2011, 02:01 PM
I started this by posting it an old thread, ill ban myself for the next 30 seconds

Stinger
08-14-2011, 02:02 PM
So if gaither takes a shit wanna start another thread? http://www.kcchiefs.com/

Well Duhh....... It is a poop thread.

Tradition!!!!!!!!!

KCrockaholic
08-14-2011, 02:03 PM
If i pissed anyone off I'm sorry.

You pissed off everyone. Go start a damn thread about it.

Just Passin' By
08-14-2011, 02:08 PM
You pissed off everyone. Go start a damn leaving forever thread about it.


FYP http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv123/Gardnerius/thcoffee.gif?t=1242277662

DaFace
08-14-2011, 02:09 PM
You pissed off everyone. Go start a damn thread about it.

He can't.
Posted via Mobile Device

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 02:09 PM
He can't.
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO

Bwana
08-14-2011, 02:10 PM
He can't.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ouch

ChiefsandO'sfan
08-14-2011, 02:11 PM
He can't.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

KCrockaholic
08-14-2011, 02:11 PM
He can't.
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 02:11 PM
I wouldn't be shocked to see Albert at LG next year.

That was his college position right? I guess I don't understand why they converted him?

BossChief
08-14-2011, 02:12 PM
Jason cole of yahoo sports said its a 1 year deal.

link please

KCrockaholic
08-14-2011, 02:13 PM
That was his college position right? I guess I don't understand why they converted him?

We needed a LT, and Brian Waters was our LG when we drafted him. Makes sense to me. Other than forcing a guy who's never played LT to play LT.

BossChief
08-14-2011, 02:15 PM
Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

haha

u mad

Stinger
08-14-2011, 02:17 PM
Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/stinger871/Chief%20Planet/AndHereWeGo.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/stinger871/Chief%20Planet/popcorn.gif

Just Passin' By
08-14-2011, 02:18 PM
Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

You should go over DaFace's head. You should get in touch with Bob Dole about this. Send him a PM. Let him know that DaFace is abusing his position as a mod.


This injustice must NOT stand!

milkman
08-14-2011, 02:19 PM
If Gaither was coming in as a starter, he'd be starting at RT. Since he's coming in as a backup, it only makes sense. Beginning to get in shape, would start on his comfortable side, on the left. Until I see Albert starting to practice at another position, B Rich taking snaps as a G, etc, there's really nothing to talk about. When and If Gaither gets in Haley shape, he'll be utilized where Haley and Muir thinks he's best

Since Albert hasn't shown any real progress, the fact that Gaither is starting out on the left side suggests the Chiefs want to replace him, or at the very least, light a fire under his ass, though I would suggest that a big reason for that failure to progress is on Muir.

And a healthy and motivated Gaither is, in fact, better than Albert at this point, and it isn't even close.

The Chiefs might well attempt to convert Albert to RT, but I would think his best position is LG, and should he end up there, the Chiefs will be looking for Barry Richardosn's repalcement in the next draft.

At the end of the day, however, if Albert does get a fire lit, and he shows that he can get better, forcing Gaither to the right side, this team would be that much further ahead.

Also, at the end of the day, there is something to talk about.

Bwana
08-14-2011, 02:19 PM
Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

Why, that sounds like another threat.

DaFace
08-14-2011, 02:20 PM
Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

You realize that is a bannable offense, right? The other mods wanted me to ban you for your PM the other day, but I'm apparently too nice.
Posted via Mobile Device

cabletech94
08-14-2011, 02:21 PM
Why, that sounds like a threat.

you should change his avatar.

(inside joke between bwana and me, it's all good).

BossChief
08-14-2011, 02:24 PM
That was his college position right? I guess I don't understand why they converted him?

Albert had the tools to become a damn good left tackle...maybe even an elite one.

He had great feet, naturally bent his knees during a block to utilize his lower body strength, is very smart, very long arms....basically most of the pieces you look for in a LT.

He was considered a pro bowl quality guard prospect that some saw as a first round prospect that could be a good project at LT.

(I think if he is returned to his natural position of left guard, his natural elite ability will also return.)

He came in and had a very solid rookie year where he only gave up like 4 sacks...then Haley came in and made him lose a lot of weight and the wheels came off.

He started having trouble with speed rushers that had good power in 2009 (or I should say, more problems) and really hasnt improved as a pass blocker in the 2 years since Haley took over.

I honestly think that if he gained 20-25 pounds, he would be able to flourish for us at LT but thats not likely to happen.

Gaither is every bit the run blocker that Albert is, but is a much better pass protector. He showed the ability to eliminate an opponents best rusher consistently at LT for a couple years (even in the playoffs) and then Oher fell to their spot and all hell broke loose. Gaither couldnt handle the fact that they drafted a replacement and became a distraction by refusing to move to the right side.

KCrockaholic
08-14-2011, 02:25 PM
Albert had the tools to become a damn good left tackle...maybe even an elite one.

He had great feet, naturally bent his knees during a block to utilize his lower body strength, is very smart, very long arms....basically most of the pieces you look for in a LT.

He was considered a pro bowl quality guard prospect that some saw as a first round prospect that could be a good project at LT.

(I think if he is returned to his natural position of left guard, his natural elite ability will also return.)

He came in and had a very solid rookie year where he only gave up like 4 sacks...then Haley came in and made him lose a lot of weight and the wheels came off.

He started having trouble with speed rushers that had good power in 2009 (or I should say, more problems) and really hasnt improved as a pass blocker in the 2 years since Haley took over.

I honestly think that if he gained 20-25 pounds, he would be able to flourish for us at LT but thats not likely to happen.

Gaither is every bit the run blocker that Albert is, but is a much better pass protector. He showed the ability to eliminate an opponents best rusher consistently at LT for a couple years (even in the playoffs) and then Oher fell to their spot and all hell broke loose. Gaither couldnt handle the fact that they drafted a replacement and became a distraction by refusing to move to the right side.
Well you elaborated much better than I did.

milkman
08-14-2011, 02:26 PM
That was his college position right? I guess I don't understand why they converted him?

We needed a LT, and Brian Waters was our LG when we drafted him. Makes sense to me. Other than forcing a guy who's never played LT to play LT.

The reason they converted him was the fact that he does have the athletic ability and ideal size and frame to play LT, including a long wingspan.

He has some of the quickest feet you'll ever see from a man his size.

He simply isn't asimilating the technique reqired for the position, which means he just in't getting it, or he has a bad taecher.

I was pissed when the Chiefs hired Muir, because I've always wondered how he has a job.

I would submit that he has a bad teacher.

Bwana
08-14-2011, 02:26 PM
you should change his avatar.

(inside joke between bwana and me, it's all good).

Heh, I'm just glad (A) You have one now and (B) you like it. :)

|Zach|
08-14-2011, 02:32 PM
r

You are a fucking tool bag.

MIAdragon
08-14-2011, 02:32 PM
You should go over DaFace's head. You should get in touch with Bob Dole about this. Send him a PM. Let him know that DaFace is abusing his position as a mod.


This injustice must NOT stand!

in fact, Im going to be SO nice and PM Mr Dole for you. Look for his response shortly.

Chiefnj2
08-14-2011, 02:35 PM
LOL how would you feel if the mods changed your name for no reason and banned me from starting a thread.

You're lucky you aren't banned completely. Stop being a childish "repost" prick.

|Zach|
08-14-2011, 02:36 PM
Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

From Twitter whore to reposting spouting douchebag to mod's bitch to keyboard tough guy.

That is impressive.

|Zach|
08-14-2011, 02:37 PM
You're lucky you aren't banned completely. Stop being a childish "repost" prick.

It was even better when he is dead wrong.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7800361&postcount=6

Okie_Apparition
08-14-2011, 02:40 PM
Since Captain Obvious is on hiatus

Charles & Albert were drafted the same year. The 3rd rounder got a new deal last season. LT monies is big monies

BossChief
08-14-2011, 02:46 PM
Since Captain Obvious is on hiatus

Charles & Albert were drafted the same year. The 3rd rounder got a new deal last season. LT monies is big monies

if Gaither really is on a 1 year deal (which makes sense) then either he or Albert will get a good contract either during or after this year.

Gaither wasnt really a problem until he was moved to the right side, from what Ive read anyway.

Okie_Apparition
08-14-2011, 02:50 PM
If I'm Albert I say give me LT money or fuck you. Because someone else will

Deberg_1990
08-14-2011, 02:52 PM
The reason they converted him was the fact that he does have the athletic ability and ideal size and frame to play LT, including a long wingspan.

He has some of the quickest feet you'll ever see from a man his size.

He simply isn't asimilating the technique reqired for the position, which means he just in't getting it, or he has a bad taecher.

I was pissed when the Chiefs hired Muir, because I've always wondered how he has a job.

I would submit that he has a bad teacher.

Albert had the tools to become a damn good left tackle...maybe even an elite one.

He had great feet, naturally bent his knees during a block to utilize his lower body strength, is very smart, very long arms....basically most of the pieces you look for in a LT.

He was considered a pro bowl quality guard prospect that some saw as a first round prospect that could be a good project at LT.

(I think if he is returned to his natural position of left guard, his natural elite ability will also return.)

He came in and had a very solid rookie year where he only gave up like 4 sacks...then Haley came in and made him lose a lot of weight and the wheels came off.

He started having trouble with speed rushers that had good power in 2009 (or I should say, more problems) and really hasnt improved as a pass blocker in the 2 years since Haley took over.

I honestly think that if he gained 20-25 pounds, he would be able to flourish for us at LT but thats not likely to happen.

Gaither is every bit the run blocker that Albert is, but is a much better pass protector. He showed the ability to eliminate an opponents best rusher consistently at LT for a couple years (even in the playoffs) and then Oher fell to their spot and all hell broke loose. Gaither couldnt handle the fact that they drafted a replacement and became a distraction by refusing to move to the right side.


Thanks....yea, i guess im not really a big fan of converting players positions at the NFL level. Whatever the case, im just glad we have depth and competition at a critical position.

BossChief
08-14-2011, 02:53 PM
to okie

Why would they?

He has been average, at best, as a LT in three years starting.

Dave Lane
08-14-2011, 02:55 PM
And you wonder why the mods won't help you out.
Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO LMAO LMAO

Dave Lane
08-14-2011, 02:57 PM
Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

Shit just got real...

Dave Lane
08-14-2011, 02:59 PM
From Twitter whore to reposting spouting douchebag to mod's bitch to keyboard tough guy.

That is impressive.

Would this be considered absolute proof of evolution?

CoMoChief
08-14-2011, 03:05 PM
Well I hope CP is happy, given all the hate there is for Albert and CP dumbasses demanding of his removal from the LT position.

Okie_Apparition
08-14-2011, 03:06 PM
For him IMO, it's worth the gamble. He won't earn any less somewhere else

tonyetony
08-14-2011, 03:09 PM
If I'm Albert I say give me LT money or **** you. Because someone else will

No one is going to give him elite LT money because he is far from being an elite LT. If Gaither ends up getting healthy Albert isn't even a starting LT.

BossChief
08-14-2011, 03:09 PM
Well I hope CP is happy, given all the hate there is for Albert and CP dumbasses demanding of his removal from the LT position.
nobody hates him, but at one point you have to make the call to pull the plug on a project that isn't developing further.

Albert isnt any better of a pass blocker than he was his first game starting...shit, I would argue that he has regressed.

Maybe that gives credence to the statement Milk made about lacking coaching in relation to his development.

Okie_Apparition
08-14-2011, 03:11 PM
It's a business & I'm going for the cash baby. STFU & STFD won't fly

tonyetony
08-14-2011, 03:13 PM
Well I hope CP is happy, given all the hate there is for Albert and CP dumbasses demanding of his removal from the LT position.

I don't necessarily hate him or want his removal I just think we need better line play if we're going to go to the next level. Our below average line was exposed badly in the playoff loss.

CoMoChief
08-14-2011, 03:15 PM
nobody hates him, but at one point you have to make the call to pull the plug on a project that isn't developing further.

Albert isnt any better of a pass blocker than he was his first game starting...shit, I would argue that he has regressed.

Maybe that gives credence to the statement Milk made about lacking coaching in relation to his development.

BA was least of the Oline's problems last season. And I wouldn't go as far as saying that he's regressed by any means. He's a damn fine tackle...and I think people around here expect him to be a top5 Willie Roaf type tackle. People are still spoiled and hold the bar up to our 02-03 Oline. That's never going to happen again folks....that was one of the best Olines the NFL has ever seen.

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 03:15 PM
...
Gaither is every bit the run blocker that Albert is, but is a much better pass protector. He showed the ability to eliminate an opponents best rusher consistently at LT for a couple years (even in the playoffs) and then Oher fell to their spot and all hell broke loose. Gaither couldnt handle the fact that they drafted a replacement and became a distraction by refusing to move to the right side.

810 had some Ravens "insiders" on last week. All of them had high praise for Gaither's abilities, but all mentioned either his back injury or work ethic as issues. One of them stated that Gaither is a better LT than Oher when "healthy & motivated." For whatever that's worth. (Obviously the Ravens' FO didn't feel that way.) I hope the Chiefs' FO & coaching staff find a way to make both Albert and Gaither happy and productive in Chiefs' uniforms. I don't sense that either player will end up in a Peterson/Tait/Locke type of debacle.

DaFace
08-14-2011, 03:16 PM
From Twitter whore to reposting spouting douchebag to mod's bitch to keyboard tough guy.

That is impressive.

What's impressive is that he's had mod actions taken against him by four separate mods with absolutely no collusion. Here's a history:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9208/historyq.png

(And apparently Floppy was a bit indecisive on the name change. :D)

BossChief
08-14-2011, 03:20 PM
It's a business & I'm going for the cash baby. STFU & STFD won't fly

nobody is gonna give a guy top tier LT money when he has no tape to indicate he is worthy of such a contract.

NOBODY

McNeil got 6/49
evans got 7/56

Not much difference between top tier LT $ and top tier LG $

If he wants to get paid big bucks, he should ask to be moved to LG to showcase his skills.

Lilja is a good player, but he isnt good enough to keep us from a potential upgrade.

Bwana
08-14-2011, 03:21 PM
What's impressive is that he's had mod actions taken against him by four separate mods with absolutely no collusion. Here's a history:

(And apparently Floppy was a bit indecisive on the name change. :D)

Damn, I'm feeling left out!

BossChief
08-14-2011, 03:25 PM
BA was least of the Oline's problems last season. And I wouldn't go as far as saying that he's regressed by any means. He's a damn fine tackle...and I think people around here expect him to be a top5 Willie Roaf type tackle. People are still spoiled and hold the bar up to our 02-03 Oline. That's never going to happen again folks....that was one of the best Olines the NFL has ever seen.
Nobody is expecting him to be great...just good.

At times, he isnt even average as a pass blocker (and that should be his #1 responsibility)

BossChief
08-14-2011, 03:26 PM
Damn, I'm feeling left out!

give him a time out to have a little fun.

tonyetony
08-14-2011, 03:27 PM
BA was least of the Oline's problems last season. And I wouldn't go as far as saying that he's regressed by any means. He's a damn fine tackle...and I think people around here expect him to be a top5 Willie Roaf type tackle. People are still spoiled and hold the bar up to our 02-03 Oline. That's never going to happen again folks....that was one of the best Olines the NFL has ever seen.

We should hold the bar that high and if your ok with mediocre line play then your ok with being one and done in the playoffs. If we constantly have to play TE's over our tackles because they can't handle a speed rusher one on one then we might as well be playing with 10 players on the offense. I promise a mediocre line doesn't relate to perennial super bowl contenders and as a fan that's what I want.

J Diddy
08-14-2011, 03:32 PM
We should hold the bar that high and if your ok with mediocre line play then your ok with being one and done in the playoffs. If we constantly have to play TE's over our tackles because they can't handle a speed rusher one on one then we might as well be playing with 10 players on the offense. I promise a mediocre line doesn't relate to perennial super bowl contenders and as a fan that's what I want.

Neither does a supreme one, see 02-03 chiefs.

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 03:41 PM
I don't think Albert will be going back to G unless injuries force the team to put him there. I see Albert, and Gaither as the Ts, just don't know which ones will end up where. I actually think Albert would make a damn fine RT. He's never displayed any kind weakness as far as strength goes. He's a pretty good road grader, and to tell you the truth, just about all of Albert's problems seem to be mental. I fully expect him to improve this season. Having Gaither to push him is an excellent thing for this team, but when all is said, and done, I see Gaither ending up on the right. I just seem to believe that JG is never going to return to 100% of his former self, but 85-90% will be a massive upgrade over what we had previously, and if he does return to form, it's pretty much a no-brainer to extend him, and have him hold the shit down for the next 5-7.

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 03:42 PM
BA was least of the Oline's problems last season. And I wouldn't go as far as saying that he's regressed by any means. He's a damn fine tackle...and I think people around here expect him to be a top5 Willie Roaf type tackle. People are still spoiled and hold the bar up to our 02-03 Oline. That's never going to happen again folks....that was one of the best Olines the NFL has ever seen.

I'm behind him 100%, but he had some serious mental errors last year. He needs to tighten that shit up, and if he does, we are more than set at LT.

RedThat
08-14-2011, 03:45 PM
If I'm Albert I say give me LT money or **** you. Because someone else will

Why?

My question is, what has Branden Albert done to this point to deserve LT money?

He hasn't exactly played or lived up to the expectations that some people thought he would.

If he demanded LT money, that would be a prick move on his part. And I most definately would be glad to see the Chiefs not give it to him.

*Point is, giving Branden Albert LT money when he hasn't exceeded expectations would be a moronic move on the part of the organization.

The Bad Guy
08-14-2011, 03:47 PM
Yup love to meet you in person alltalk you pussy.

God you are a bitch.

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 03:49 PM
Why?

My question is, what has Branden Albert done to this point to deserve LT money?

He hasn't exactly played or lived up to the expectations that some people thought he would.

If he demanded LT money, that would be a prick move on his part. And I most definately would be glad to see the Chiefs not give it to him.

*Point is, giving Branden Albert LT money when he hasn't lived or exceeded anyone's expectations would be a moronic move on the part of the organization.

Yeah, he's gonna have to step up and earn that dough this season.

RedThat
08-14-2011, 03:51 PM
Yeah, he's gonna have to step up and earn that dough this season.

Most definately.

tonyetony
08-14-2011, 03:51 PM
Neither does a supreme one, see 02-03 chiefs.

Yep I'm pretty sure our OL didn't force the Colts to punt that day.

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 04:03 PM
Yep I'm pretty sure our OL didn't force the Colts to punt that day.

I never will understand why people point to that squad, and say "See where a good OL gets you? Nowhere."
It's the dumbest ****ing thing ever. Without that O-line, that group of players Would have never won more than 5-6 games. It's not their fault that we spent first round picks on guys like Ryan Sims. If we could have fielded a top 20 defense, we very well could have won a championship. That was some of the worst team defense I have ever seen. Galldayum, it was some of the most frustrating shit ever for your team to have to score on almost every possession to win a game.

Not calling Motherlover dumb FTR.

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 04:06 PM
Man, I'm really torn on this one. First, people who say Albert's been below average leave out that he's been tremendous as a run blocker. I also don't agree that he's better suited for Right Tackle. He's got awesome footwork. He just has to become consistent with his technique. Let's not forget that he's going to need more time than the average LT to figure things out, since he's converting from being a college Guard. I don't think a new LT is going to push him to do those things better. Let's not forget that this is a guy who lost an enormous amount of weight and has really responded well to learning a totally different position. He's extremely coachable, so I don't know that extra motivation changes much.

That being said... maybe he never will get rid of those mental mistakes. So do you give up on the Albert experiment now? Because if you do, it will be tough to turn back.

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 04:08 PM
Neither does a supreme one, see 02-03 chiefs.

An even average defensive coordinator, in my opinion, could have and would have made the Chiefs a Super Bowl winner under Vermeil.

Chiefnj2
08-14-2011, 04:12 PM
BA was least of the Oline's problems last season. And I wouldn't go as far as saying that he's regressed by any means. He's a damn fine tackle...and I think people around here expect him to be a top5 Willie Roaf type tackle. People are still spoiled and hold the bar up to our 02-03 Oline. That's never going to happen again folks....that was one of the best Olines the NFL has ever seen.

He was one of the worst pass blocking LT's in the NFL last year.

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 04:13 PM
Branden Albert was the 58th rated pass blocking OT last year on PFF. They had him giving up more sacks than everyone but six other players.

To suggest he's close to being a good pass blocker doesn't jive.

Chronic
08-14-2011, 04:13 PM
Jesus H Christ

Can we get a reporter that can spell?

unlurking
08-14-2011, 04:21 PM
What's impressive is that he's had mod actions taken against him by four separate mods with absolutely no collusion. Here's a history:



(And apparently Floppy was a bit indecisive on the name change. :D)
So what kind of permissions does the group "Miserable Users" confer?!?!

:)

royr17
08-14-2011, 04:25 PM
Branden Albert was the 58th rated pass blocking OT last year on PFF. They had him giving up more sacks than everyone but six other players.

To suggest he's close to being a good pass blocker doesn't jive.

What was Richardson rated ?

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 04:32 PM
An even average defensive coordinator, in my opinion, could have and would have made the Chiefs a Super Bowl winner under Vermeil.
Maybe, but it would have taken a coaching miracle to get that group of talent into the top 20. They were absolutely horrible. Not letting Gunther or G-Rob, off the hook, but those units were really bad.

Dave Lane
08-14-2011, 04:33 PM
What was Richardson rated ?

Negative infinity.

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 04:35 PM
What was Richardson rated ?

62nd

Dave Lane
08-14-2011, 04:36 PM
The reason they converted him was the fact that he does have the athletic ability and ideal size and frame to play LT, including a long wingspan.

He has some of the quickest feet you'll ever see from a man his size.

He simply isn't asimilating the technique reqired for the position, which means he just in't getting it, or he has a bad taecher.

I was pissed when the Chiefs hired Muir, because I've always wondered how he has a job.

I would submit that he has a bad teacher.


Who's the OL coach now?

MIAdragon
08-14-2011, 04:39 PM
What was Richardson rated ?

http://www.phlcoc.net/images/hwy67.jpg

OnTheWarpath58
08-14-2011, 04:41 PM
Branden Albert was the 58th rated pass blocking OT last year on PFF. They had him giving up more sacks than everyone but six other players.

To suggest he's close to being a good pass blocker doesn't jive.

What was Richardson rated ?

62nd

Not saying that either are good pass blockers, but I'd love to know how many of these sacks were due to the QB holding the ball too long.

That goes for the rest of our OL, and the rest of the league, for that matter.

unlurking
08-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Who's the OL coach now?

Bill is still OL Coach. Assistian is Pat Perles.

Pat Perles enters his second season with the Chiefs and his first as Kansas City’s assistant offensive line coach. In his new capacity, he will tutor the club’s blocking unit alongside offensive line coach Bill Muir. Perles served as the club’s defensive quality control coach in 2009 and also worked closely with linebackers coach Gary Gibbs.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/coaches/pat-perles/21519724-6134-48e6-a03c-cfa82f26d9ef#

Dave Lane
08-14-2011, 04:48 PM
Not saying that either are good pass blockers, but I'd love to know how many of these sacks were due to the QB holding the ball too long.

That goes for the rest of our OL, and the rest of the league, for that matter.

They aren't even up to the point of horrible in the last 5 games. A sieve is the best possible description.

Clayton you have a rating for the last 4 games last year and the last one? We have to be dead last in the league in those games.

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 04:59 PM
They aren't even up to the point of horrible in the last 5 games. A sieve is the best possible description.

Clayton you have a rating for the last 4 games last year and the last one? We have to be dead last in the league in those games.

The Oakland game is skewing Albert's rating quite a bit.

If you remove that he comes out 20th overall and 25th in pass blocking, which is probably more in line with his true value.

They also have six of Albert's 10 sacks allowed in two games.

Of course those games are against Oakland and San Diego, which doesn't bode well for 2011.

BossChief
08-14-2011, 05:29 PM
Are those numbers as overall left tackles...or offensive tackles as a whole?

DTLB58
08-14-2011, 05:30 PM
62nd

He gave up 5 sacks wtf?

keg in kc
08-14-2011, 05:30 PM
Few ways to look at it. It may be competition, it may be a condition of his signing that he works the left side, they may think it's best for his initial work and conditioning/recovery after the injury to work at the position he's most familiar with and best suited for.

I don't think it could possibly be a bad thing if his back is miraculously 100% and we're suddenly handed a top tier LT for what amounts to chump change. Competition aside, Albert himself has a tendency to get dinged and miss a game or two, so it's not like we can't use the depth.

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 05:33 PM
Are those numbers as overall left tackles...or offensive tackles as a whole?

OTs

RedThat
08-14-2011, 05:40 PM
No wonder we were ranked 30th in pass offense?

Our offensive tackles can't pass block worth a damn.

*This doesn't all hinge on Cassel.

milkman
08-14-2011, 05:41 PM
We should hold the bar that high and if your ok with mediocre line play then your ok with being one and done in the playoffs. If we constantly have to play TE's over our tackles because they can't handle a speed rusher one on one then we might as well be playing with 10 players on the offense. I promise a mediocre line doesn't relate to perennial super bowl contenders and as a fan that's what I want.

Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers disagree with you.

As a matter if fact, Ben Roethlisberger and the Pittsburgh Steelers disagree with you, as well.

I've said it many times.

Give me a top 5 defense and a franchise QB, and I will take my chances against the rest of the league.

Clearly, those aren't the only ingredients to a SB championship and a perennial SB contender, but they are the two best ingredients.

milkman
08-14-2011, 05:44 PM
No wonder we were ranked 30th in pass offense?

Our offensive tackles can't pass block worth a damn.

*This doesn't all hinge on Cassel.

No, but neither does it all hinge in the O-Line.

Cassel still holds onto the ball too damn long, and I can't even begin to count the times I counted to 5,6, even 7 before Cassel got rid if the ball, felt pressure or was sacked.

Game after game in the chat, I would point it out.

There were also numerous times when the DL broke through virtually unmolested, but not nearly as much as many seem to think.

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 05:45 PM
Maybe, but it would have taken a coaching miracle to get that group of talent into the top 20. They were absolutely horrible. Not letting Gunther or G-Rob, off the hook, but those units were really bad.

The units were bad because the coaching staff completely whiffed on developing the players on the roster. And the defense had more than enough decent players to field the average defense the Chiefs needed to be a dominant force. In those years, both GRob and Gunther were practically given a blank check to bring in guys they liked. GRob went after Holliday, Barber, McCleon (two of those players, by the way, were very productive when not on the Chiefs), had a terrific pass rusher in Hicks, and two terrific Safeties in Wesley/Woods. Gunther went after Bell, Surtain, Carlos Hall, Siavii as part of his infamous wish list. That in addition to having Jared Allen on the team--Allen and Holliday is a more than formidable pass rush duo.

Especially in Vermeil's final year, the Chiefs had plenty of weapons on defense. Better than the kind of talent Gregg Williams gets in New Orleans.

milkman
08-14-2011, 05:47 PM
The units were bad because the coaching staff completely whiffed on developing the players on the roster. And the defense had more than enough decent players to field the average defense the Chiefs needed to be a dominant force. In those years, both GRob and Gunther were practically given a blank check to bring in guys they liked. GRob went after Holliday, Barber, McCleon (two of those players, by the way, were very productive when not on the Chiefs), had a terrific pass rusher in Hicks, and two terrific Safeties in Wesley/Woods. Gunther went after Bell, Surtain, Carlos Hall, Siavii as part of his infamous wish list. That in addition to having Jared Allen on the team--Allen and Holliday is a more than formidable pass rush duo.

Especially in Vermeil's final year, the Chiefs had plenty of weapons on defense. Better than the kind of talent Gregg Williams gets in New Orleans.

I want whatever you're smoking.

keg in kc
08-14-2011, 05:48 PM
No, but neither does it all hinge in the O-Line.

Cassel still holds onto the ball too damn long, and I can't even begin to count the times I counted to 5,6, even 7 before Cassel got rid if the ball, felt pressure or was sacked.

Game after game in the chat, I would point it out.

There were also numerous times when the DL broke through virtually unmolested, but not nearly as much as many seem to think.Maybe there weren't as many of these as I remember, either, but there seemed to be a lot of pressure that came from what looked like missed assignments, and probably a third of the time watching at home it's impossible to tell who really screwed up, at least for me. That kind of stuff I chalk up to coaching (not a big Muir fan, although you do have to give him credit for the run game).

There did seem to be more than a few jailbreak opportunities right up the middle, too, of the variety you mentioned. Where the line breaks down to the point where it looked like a screen play. But it wasn't.

Ugly ugly plays, those.

milkman
08-14-2011, 05:52 PM
Maybe there weren't as many of these as I remember, either, but there seemed to be a lot of pressure that came from what looked like missed assignments, and probably a third of the time watching at home it's impossible to tell who really screwed up, at least for me. That kind of stuff I chalk up to coaching (not a big Muir fan).

There did seem to be more than a few jailbreak opportunities right up the middle, too, of the variety you mentioned. Where the line breaks down to the point where it looked like a screen play. But it wasn't.

Ugly ugly plays, those.

Yeah, there were a (substantial) number of times when it appeared that either Albert or Richardson thought that someone was supposed to pick up a rusher on the edge, and no one did.

And Lilja was the only one of the interior lineman who seemed not to get consistently owned by the more powerful interior D-Linemen, but even he struggled with that.

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 05:55 PM
I want whatever you're smoking.

The 2005 Chiefs had plenty of talent on defense. If our D-Coordinator had a fucking clue what to do with them. Kawika Mitchell and Derrick Johnson are two classic examples of players who underachieved, and then magically reached their potential under new coaches (I'm not saying Kawika was a stud, but he was a much better player after he left Kansas City). If Gunther wasn't incompetent, he would have gotten something out of Vonnie Holliday and the Chiefs would have had a tandem of Holliday/Allen. Holliday ended up being a terrific pass rusher AFTER he left Kansas City. Between Wesley/Woods/Knight, we had talent in the secondary. With Surtain, we had at least one solid corner. And while Dalton and Browning weren't exactly formidable, that wasn't a terrible 1-2 punch either.

I'm not talking about the Chiefs being a top 5 defense. I'm saying they had more than enough horses to support a top 3 offense deep into the playoffs, especially if a real coach got something out of Kawika, Holliday, and DJ (and who knows how many other players) that Gunther could not.

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 06:01 PM
Gunther was in love with Eric Hicks, that was why Holliday started backing up Allen at RDE of all places.

Only Gunther would play a 6-5, 300 lb guy at RDE in a 4-3. :facepalm:

The biggest problem with that D was a lack of elite talent. Allen was still developing. No one else on that D was close to elite. Mostly it was solid players.

milkman
08-14-2011, 06:02 PM
The 2005 Chiefs had plenty of talent on defense. If our D-Coordinator had a ****ing clue what to do with them. Kawika Mitchell and Derrick Johnson are two classic examples of players who underachieved, and then magically reached their potential under new coaches (I'm not saying Kawika was a stud, but he was a much better player after he left Kansas City). If Gunther wasn't incompetent, he would have gotten something out of Vonnie Holliday and the Chiefs would have had a tandem of Holliday/Allen. Holliday ended up being a terrific pass rusher AFTER he left Kansas City. Between Wesley/Woods/Knight, we had talent in the secondary. With Surtain, we had at least one solid corner. And while Dalton and Browning weren't exactly formidable, that wasn't a terrible 1-2 punch either.

I'm not talking about the Chiefs being a top 5 defense. I'm saying they had more than enough horses to support a top 3 offense deep into the playoffs, especially if a real coach got something out of Kawika, Holliday, and DJ (and who knows how many other players) that Gunther could not.

Holiday benefitted from playing with actaul talent after he left.
Mitchell was still nothing more than an average LB.
Wesley wasn't anywhere close to as good as some people still seem to think and Suratin was already done, as was Sammy Knight, when he joined the Chiefs.

Even Woods only a somewhat better than average safety,

That was a collection of never were's and has beens.

Another DC might have gotten a little something out of them, but that collestion talent (used loosely) was never going to support anything.

Just Passin' By
08-14-2011, 06:11 PM
There's still time in camp. Would anyone really be shocked by

Gaither
Lilja
Wiegmann
Asomoah
Albert

by opening day?

FD
08-14-2011, 06:12 PM
There's still time in camp. Would anyone really be shocked by

Gaither
Lilja
Wiegmann
Asomoah
Albert

by opening day?

Considering the health issues I'd be very surprised to see Gaither in the starting line-up opening day.

milkman
08-14-2011, 06:14 PM
Considering the health issues I'd be very surprised to see Gaither in the starting line-up opening day.

That and the fact that Albert has never played on the right side at any level at tackle or guard.

That might be the direction they are headed, but certainly not by opening day.

Just Passin' By
08-14-2011, 06:22 PM
Considering the health issues I'd be very surprised to see Gaither in the starting line-up opening day.

I thought he was practicing starting today.

ChiefsCountry
08-14-2011, 06:22 PM
That and the fact that Albert has never played on the right side at any level at tackle or guard.

That might be the direction they are headed, but certainly not by opening day.

If Gaither can play up to his ability I would have no problem sliding Albert over to left guard.

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 06:31 PM
Gaither Albert Hudson Asamoah 1ST ROUND RIGHT TACKLE!

Beastyl!

royr17
08-14-2011, 06:35 PM
There's still time in camp. Would anyone really be shocked by

Gaither
Lilja
Wiegmann
Asomoah
Albert

by opening day?

What wrong with this lineup for next year.

Gaither
Richardson
Hudson
Asamoah
Albert

Mr. Laz
08-14-2011, 06:35 PM
Interesting ... i assume that Gaither will initially be the backup swing OT. Start off at LT and then work in at RT.

Although if Gaither stays healthy and Albert continues to be mediocre there are going to be a lot of 'Albert isn't a RT' people pissed off because i see Albert replacing Richardson at RT before replacing Lilja at LG.

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 06:36 PM
What wrong with this lineup for next year.

Gaither
Richardson
Hudson
Asamoah
Albert

Richardson has never played LG.

Albert has never played LT.

You're playing with fire.

Mr. Laz
08-14-2011, 06:38 PM
What wrong with this lineup for next year.

Gaither
Richardson
Hudson
Asamoah
Albert
Richardson has a problem with focus ... i don't see that changing by just moving him inside. Also the Chiefs seem to want to pull their guards and i don't know if Richardson can do that.

Man, that's a power running lineup though.


Haley would be jizzing in his pant all day long running McClain behind that Oline. ROLF

royr17
08-14-2011, 06:41 PM
Richardson has never played LG.

Albert has never played LT.

You're playing with fire.

thats true, but just because he has never played guard doesnt mean that he couldnt be a better guard than tackle. hell in his draft profile from 08 it says that he'd probably fit better at guard than he would tackle.

they could give a try, like that did by moving quinten lawrence to cb.

Mr. Laz
08-14-2011, 06:44 PM
thats true, but just because he has never played guard doesnt mean that he couldnt be a better guard than tackle. hell in his draft profile from 08 it says that he'd probably fit better at guard than he would tackle.

they could give a try, like that did by moving quinten lawrence to cb.
depends on the blocking scheme ... but moving guys from OT to OG is a lot safer than trying to make a guard a tackle.

Just like moving a safety to cornerback is usually death but sliding a physical cornerback over to free safety can work out really well.

royr17
08-14-2011, 06:44 PM
Gaither Albert Hudson Asamoah 1ST ROUND RIGHT TACKLE!

Beastyl!

Well the only problem with this is that you simply just dont draft right tackles in the 1st round. left tackles, sure, right tackles, good right tackles can be had in the 2nd, 3rd, and even later rounds.

aturnis
08-14-2011, 06:45 PM
I don't understand how people can praise his footwork then admit he struggles against speed rushers in the same thought. If he had such good footwork, that would be a strong point for him. He handles bull rushes and power just fine.

ReynardMuldrake
08-14-2011, 06:48 PM
Richardson has never played LG.

Albert has never played LT.

You're playing with fire.

OK, how about:

Gaither/Albert
Lilja
Wiegmann/Hudson
Asamoah
Richardson/Mims

That would mean added depth without a lot of shuffling.

ChiefsCountry
08-14-2011, 06:49 PM
I don't understand how people can praise his footwork then admit he struggles against speed rushers in the same thought. If he had such good footwork, that would be a strong point for him. He handles bull rushes and power just fine.

Its mental more than the physical with the speed rushers.

milkman
08-14-2011, 06:53 PM
Its mental more than the physical with the speed rushers.

I've said this before, but it seems he's thinking so much, that he's slow coming out of his stance at the snap on pass plays.

That's not a problem on running plays.

Mr. Laz
08-14-2011, 06:54 PM
OK, how about:Gaither/Albert
Lilja
Wiegmann/Hudson
Asamoah
Richardson/MimsThat would mean added depth without a lot of shuffling.
because they want Albert's talent in the starting lineup

if Albert continues to struggle and Gaither can stay healthy i could easily see our starting Oline be Gaithers,Lilja,Hudson,Asomoah,Albert at the end of the year.

with Richardson being the backup/swing OT

of course that lineup also depends on Hudson progressing enough over the season to replace Wiegmann.

WhiteWhale
08-14-2011, 06:56 PM
Holiday benefitted from playing with actaul talent after he left.
Mitchell was still nothing more than an average LB.
Wesley wasn't anywhere close to as good as some people still seem to think and Suratin was already done, as was Sammy Knight, when he joined the Chiefs.

Even Woods only a somewhat better than average safety,

That was a collection of never were's and has beens.

Another DC might have gotten a little something out of them, but that collestion talent (used loosely) was never going to support anything.

Woods was a good Safety BEFORE he broke his leg. He was never the same physical type of player after that ugly injury. Even in 2003 when he made the PB, I didn't think he played close to the same level he was at before the leg.

Surtain was a solid CB here, but not with Gunther. Surtain has great COD skills and is very explosive. Even in Miami he lacked top end speed and would get beat deep without help. We left him 1 on 1 deep all the time. Not playing to a players' strengths is one of the reasons Gunther was a jackass.

Sammy was a turtle. Always was. That was the whole problem with that D... the flaws were 'allow big play' flaws. Our secondary, no... the whole team, was incredibly slow. Holliday/Hicks.. slow. Maz... slow. Secondary... slow. Just an incredible lack of team speed. We could get stops, but we allowed tons of big home-run type plays.

milkman
08-14-2011, 06:56 PM
because the want Albert's talent in the starting lineup

if Albert continues to struggle and Gaither can stay healthy i could easily see our starting Oline be Gaithers,Lilja,Hudson,Asomoah,Albert at the end of the year.

with Richardson being the backup/swing OT

of course that lineup also depends on Hudson progressing enough over the season to replace Wiegmann.

If you believe that Albert will continue to struggle with speed rushers, then how are you fixing the RT position by moving Albert to RT, when Richardson's primary problem is the fact that he to, struggles with speed rushers?

milkman
08-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Woods was a good Safety BEFORE he broke his leg. He was never the same physical type of player after that ugly injury. Even in 2003 when he made the PB, I didn't think he played close to the same level he was at before the leg.

Surtain was a solid CB here, but not with Gunther. Surtain has great COD skills and is very explosive. Even in Miami he lacked top end speed and would get beat deep without help. We left him 1 on 1 deep all the time. Not playing to a players' strengths is one of the reasons Gunther was a jackass.

Sammy was a turtle. Always was. That was the whole problem with that D... the flaws were 'allow big play' flaws. Our secondary, no... the whole team, was incredibly slow. Holliday/Hicks.. slow. Maz... slow. Secondary... slow. Just an incredible lack of team speed. We could get stops, but we allowed tons of big home-run type plays.

"The whole team was incredibly slow", and you want to argue that they had the talent to compete?

Do you actualy type this stuff seriously?

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 07:00 PM
I'm not a big fan of moving Albert to RT. But that conversation has changed with Gaither on the roster.

I think it would be stupid to put anybody BUT Albert or Gaither at RT. Lilja is just fine at Left Guard. For those who worry that Albert or Gaither aren't going to be that great, remember that the bar is set really low. For this year, what I want is a Right Tackle to come in and play better than Barry Richardson.

Gaither can do that right away. It will take Albert at least a half season to adjust to just using his hands differently.

I think you HAVE to stick with Albert at LT and Gaither at RT. Because if it's the other way around, one of those two is going to have to sit on the bench while Richardson starts. And plus it buys Albert one more year. Let's not forget that if Albert struggles this season, then we can just as easily move Gaither to LT next offseason and Albert to RT (when Albert has a few months to learn the new position)

philfree
08-14-2011, 07:12 PM
I heard Gaither and some how it became a song.


They were tailgating in the parking lot
They were eating up some bar-b-q
Then we signed Gaither and a half an hout later
He was puking all over Todd Haleys shoes

I said the Chiefs don't want no freaks
The Chiefs don't want no freaks

Knowing all the while he'd bust out in style
The Chiefs don't want no freaks


:shrug:

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 07:12 PM
"The whole team was incredibly slow", and you want to argue that they had the talent to compete?

Do you actualy type this stuff seriously?

It's really cracking me up. Just like the Pollard ball washers when he got released. Who were these people watching? People seem to have a much fonder recollection of those defenses than I do. They were slow as fuck as you said, and actually just down right shitty in every way.
Sure there were a few players who weren't complete dog shit, but last I checked this was team a sport, and those teams had 95% garbage for defensive talent.

WhiteWhale
08-14-2011, 07:15 PM
"The whole team was incredibly slow", and you want to argue that they had the talent to compete?

Do you actualy type this stuff seriously?

I'm pretty sure I'm not making any argument that they had the talent to compete.

I said they were incredibly slow and allowed tons of home-run plays. That's a shitty defense and the players were slow, shitty players.

Read harder.

milkman
08-14-2011, 07:22 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm not making any argument that they had the talent to compete.

I said they were incredibly slow and allowed tons of home-run plays. That's a shitty defense and the players were slow, shitty players.

Read harder.

Sorry, you're right, I did misunderstand, and thought you were backing zilla's argument.

WhiteWhale
08-14-2011, 07:23 PM
It's really cracking me up. Just like the Pollard ball washers when he got released. Who were these people watching? People seem to have a much fonder recollection of those defenses than I do. They were slow as **** as you said, and actually just down right shitty in every way.
Sure there were a few players who weren't complete dog shit, but last I checked this was team a sport, and those teams had 95% garbage for defensive talent.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything positive about the defense.

Yeah, they were shitty. But they were so f**king incredibly slow. It was insane to watch them turtle around and give up 50 points a game. Worst defense I ever saw.

And I'm still being generous.

HemiEd
08-14-2011, 07:26 PM
If Gaither was coming in as a starter, he'd be starting at RT. Since he's coming in as a backup, it only makes sense. Beginning to get in shape, would start on his comfortable side, on the left. Until I see Albert starting to practice at another position, B Rich taking snaps as a G, etc, there's really nothing to talk about. When and If Gaither gets in Haley shape, he'll be utilized where Haley and Muir thinks he's best

Who are you again? Neg.

Mr. Laz
08-14-2011, 07:33 PM
If you believe that Albert will continue to struggle with speed rushers, then how are you fixing the RT position by moving Albert to RT, when Richardson's primary problem is the fact that he to, struggles with speed rushers?
The speed faced at RT is not the same as LT ... RT's tend to face more power guys. Albert does fine against power.

milkman
08-14-2011, 07:40 PM
The speed faced at RT is not the same as LT ... RT's tend to face more power guys. Albert does fine against power.

That's not true anymore, especially when facing 34 defenses.

Even against 43, DCS are lining up thier best pass rushers on the left (the offensive right) to take advantage of slower RTs.

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 08:05 PM
That's not true anymore, especially when facing 34 defenses.

Even against 43, DCS are lining up thier best pass rushers on the left (the offensive right) to take advantage of slower RTs.

I've been trying to say this for a while. The RT position is starting to ascend in value as teams are starting to take advantage of slower RTs, and 3-4 defenses are shooting for premier pass rushers on both sides. The finesse(LT), power(RT) idea, is starting to be obsolete, and Ts need to be more rounded, and overall more like LTs on both sides.

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 08:10 PM
"The whole team was incredibly slow", and you want to argue that they had the talent to compete?

Do you actualy type this stuff seriously?

But you're talking about a team that had the talent to compete, when we're saying that the defense only had to be average to support our powerhouse offense. They definitely had more than enough talent to do that.

If Gunther had the brains to start Holliday opposite Allen, the Chiefs would have been significantly better. If he had the coaching ability to coach up DJ and Kawika Mitchell, the Chiefs would have been reasonably solid at the LB position (both grossly underachieved under his watch). If Gunther didn't constantly put Surtain in those stupid situations where he was 15 yards off the receiver, the Chiefs would have been better in the secondary. If Gunther wasn't so stubborn about refusing to cover based on matchup, the Chiefs wouldn't have been as dominated by certain receivers (remember when Gun REFUSED to match up any specific corner on T.O.?) And what if Gun had a freaking clue and didn't waste time on the stupid Kendrell Bell experiment? I still wonder to this day if the Chiefs would have gotten more mileage out of Keyaron Fox. Or better yet, what if that idiot didn't push Scott Fujita out of KC?

Given the way DJ and Dorsey were complete duds under Gun's watch, it makes you wonder if there was talent that could have been better under a different DC. Downing, Freeman, Kris Wilson, Scanlon, Willie Pile, Terdell Sands.

I think GoChiefs has it right... we wouldn't have had playmakers. But under Gun's watch, more than half of the starters were complete liabilities, and I would argue that under a different DC, over half of the starters would have been solidly average. Which is a massive improvement and, yes, I believe would have been MORE than good enough to make the Chiefs a deep playoff team.

milkman
08-14-2011, 08:10 PM
I've been trying to say this for a while. The RT position is starting to ascend in value as teams are starting to take advantage of slower RTs, and 3-4 defenses are shooting for premier pass rushers on both sides. The finesse(LT), power(RT) idea, is starting to be obsolete, and Ts need to be more rounded, and overall more like LTs on both sides.

I agree that it is starting to ascend in value, and the only thing that will continue to make the LT more valuable is the fact that the majority of QBs are right handers.

I still think you can find talent you need at RT in the 2nd, 3rd and later rounds.

milkman
08-14-2011, 08:12 PM
But you're talking about a team that had the talent to compete, when we're saying that the defense only had to be average to support our powerhouse offense. They definitely had more than enough talent to do that.

If Gunther had the brains to start Holliday opposite Allen, the Chiefs would have been significantly better. If he had the coaching ability to coach up DJ and Kawika Mitchell, the Chiefs would have been reasonably solid at the LB position (both grossly underachieved under his watch). If Gunther didn't constantly put Surtain in those stupid situations where he was 15 yards off the receiver, the Chiefs would have been better in the secondary. If Gunther wasn't so stubborn about refusing to cover based on matchup, the Chiefs wouldn't have been as dominated by certain receivers (remember when Gun REFUSED to match up any specific corner on T.O.?) And what if Gun had a freaking clue and didn't waste time on the stupid Kendrell Bell experiment? I still wonder to this day if the Chiefs would have gotten more mileage out of Keyaron Fox. Or better yet, what if that idiot didn't push Scott Fujita out of KC?

Given the way DJ and Dorsey were complete duds under Gun's watch, it makes you wonder if there was talent that could have been better under a different DC. Downing, Freeman, Kris Wilson, Scanlon, Willie Pile, Terdell Sands.

I think GoChiefs has it right... we wouldn't have had playmakers. But under Gun's watch, more than half of the starters were complete liabilities, and I would argue that under a different DC, over half of the starters would have been solidly average. Which is a massive improvement and, yes, I believe would have been MORE than good enough to make the Chiefs a deep playoff team.

I still think you're holding out the good stuff.

Mr. Laz
08-14-2011, 08:19 PM
That's not true anymore, especially when facing 34 defenses.

Even against 43, DCS are lining up thier best pass rushers on the left (the offensive right) to take advantage of slower RTs.
One second you're saying that Albert is a LT not a RT because RT is just not the same and the next you're saying that 'that it's not true anymore'

so which the fuck is it?

Or is that you are going to say whatever you need to say to argue against Albert going to right tackle? :spock:

Yes, in a 34 defense teams can bring blitz and bring speed from wherever they want but 'normally' a LT is going to face more elite speed rushers than a RT.

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 08:21 PM
I agree that it is starting to ascend in value, and the only thing that will continue to make the LT more valuable is the fact that the majority of QBs are right handers.

I still think you can find talent you need at RT in the 2nd, 3rd and later rounds.

Agreed. Still at the point where a high 2nd rounder spent on a RT would mean that you believe you're landing a stud.
But just as safety has become a premier position on defense, and better athletes are staying at that position in college, I believe the tackle positions are going to lose the huge contrast that separates them now.
Tamba has absolutely embarrassed some right tackles the last couple years.

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 08:21 PM
I still think you're holding out the good stuff.

In short...
DJ would have been a lot better under real coaching
Holliday... significantly better than Hicks, who played like a complete turd
Kawika... moderately better under real coaching
Scott Fujita... significantly better than Kendrell Bell
Surtain... significantly better if allowed to press instead of playing 10 yards off

Those are 5 guys who were significantly held back by poor coaching. That's almost half the starting lineup. And there could have been others. Do you disagree on any of those?

milkman
08-14-2011, 08:23 PM
One second you're saying that Albert is a LT not a RT because RT is just not the same and the next you're saying that 'that it's not true anymore'

so which the **** is it?

Or is that you are going to say whatever you need to say to argue against Albert going to right tackle? :spock:

Yes, in a 34 defense teams can bring blitz and bring speed from wherever they want but 'normally' a LT is going to face more elite speed rushers than a RT.

I say that Albert is not a RT because, while now want athletic ability moreso than ever at RT, you still want that road grader type as well, and while some people seem to think he has shown that, I disagree.

He's not a road grader, he's a finesse type O-Lineman that works in space really well.

Dave Lane
08-14-2011, 08:24 PM
I hope Gaither forces us to move Albert to RT. Thats what I hope.

beach tribe
08-14-2011, 08:25 PM
In short...
DJ would have been a lot better under real coaching
Holliday... significantly better than Hicks, who played like a complete turd
Kawika... moderately better under real coaching
Scott Fujita... significantly better than Kendrell Bell
Surtain... significantly better if allowed to press instead of playing 10 yards off

Those are 5 guys who were significantly held back by poor coaching. That's almost half the starting lineup. And there could have been others. Do you disagree on any of those?

These guys may have benefited form better coaching, but team speed, age, and the rest of the shitty lineup would have still held them back.

How many guys, other than the ones you named there, went on to be successful with other teams. Most of them disappeared as soon as we cut them.

milkman
08-14-2011, 08:27 PM
In short...
DJ would have been a lot better under real coaching
Holliday... significantly better than Hicks, who played like a complete turd
Kawika... moderately better under real coaching
Scott Fujita... significantly better than Kendrell Bell
Surtain... significantly better if allowed to press instead of playing 10 yards off

Those are 5 guys who were significantly held back by poor coaching. That's almost half the starting lineup. And there could have been others. Do you disagree on any of those?

And everyone of of those useles bastards were slower than molasses, which is in large part why Gunther played the corners 15 yards off.

Those guys were never going to compete for anything, ever.

Bill Bellichick couldn't turn those slow fuckers into a competitive group.

Count Zarth
08-14-2011, 08:34 PM
And everyone of of those useles bastards were slower than molasses, which is in large part why Gunther played the corners 15 yards off.

Those guys were never going to compete for anything, ever.

Bill Bellichick couldn't turn those slow fuckers into a competitive group.

Looking back it's truly amazing Carl assembled that slow of a defensive team.

He's looking dumber as time passes.

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 08:34 PM
I say that Albert is not a RT because, while now want athletic ability moreso than ever at RT, you still want that road grader type as well, and while some people seem to think he has shown that, I disagree.

He's not a road grader, he's a finesse type O-Lineman that works in space really well.

He was a roadgrader in college, blocking people 20 yards downfield. Yeah, that was in college, but he should be an improvement over anyone else currently on the roster. Maybe if he put the weight back on. :shrug:

milkman
08-14-2011, 08:43 PM
He was a roadgrader in college, blocking people 20 yards downfield. Yeah, that was in college, but he should be an improvement over anyone else currently on the roster. Maybe if he put the weight back on. :shrug:

A guy that has the athletic ability and speed to get downfield is not a road grader.

A road grader is a guy that knocks the D-Lineman at the POA on their asses.

Albert, in college, was guy that held his block at the line, disengaged and moved downfield.

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 09:11 PM
And everyone of of those useles bastards were slower than molasses, which is in large part why Gunther played the corners 15 yards off.

Those guys were never going to compete for anything, ever.

Bill Bellichick couldn't turn those slow ****ers into a competitive group.

Not every one of them. Keep in mind that much of our defense was slow because our dumbass DC chose for them to be that way. If he wanted more speed, he wouldn't have bumped Wesley to Free Safety--Wesley's speed was just fine for a Strong Safety. And he wouldn't have lobbied for slow Sammy Knight (they could have gone for a faster Darren Sharper or Dwight Smith, if you recall). He wouldn't have put a slow, plodding Hicks in the place of a quicker Vonnie Holliday or Jimmy Wilkerson. He wouldn't have put moronically slow Kendrell Bell in the place of a faster Keyaran Fox. That in addition to DJ/Jared Allen, who were already fast. Let's not confuse who started on the field in 2005 with who Gunther COULD HAVE PUT on the field based on what he inherited in 2004.

More importantly, let's also recall that Gun had two years in 2004 and 2005 to draft/bring in free agents to better the team. And most of those players were HIS wish list. A real DC would have spent those dollars much more wisely.

If the Chiefs had Gregg Williams as Defensive Coordinator in 2004, they would have been a significantly better defense by 2005.

keg in kc
08-14-2011, 09:13 PM
So wait, you say "not every one of them" and then go on to explain which players would have been faster than they were.

It was EVERY one of them.

milkman
08-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Not every one of them. Keep in mind that much of our defense was slow because our dumbass DC chose for them to be that way. If he wanted more speed, he wouldn't have bumped Wesley to Free Safety--Wesley's speed was just fine for a Strong Safety. And he wouldn't have lobbied for slow Sammy Knight (they could have gone for a faster Darren Sharper or Dwight Smith, if you recall). He wouldn't have put a slow, plodding Hicks in the place of a quicker Vonnie Holliday or Jimmy Wilkerson. He wouldn't have put moronically slow Kendrell Bell in the place of a faster Keyaran Fox. That in addition to DJ/Jared Allen, who were already fast. Let's not confuse who started on the field in 2005 with who Gunther COULD HAVE PUT on the field based on what he inherited in 2004.

More importantly, let's also recall that Gun had two years in 2004 and 2005 to draft/bring in free agents to better the team. And most of those players were HIS wish list. A real DC would have spent those dollars much more wisely.

If the Chiefs had Gregg Williams as Defensive Coordinator in 2004, they would have been a significantly better defense by 2005.

You're argument was that the guys we had were good enough.

Now you're changing it.

I'm not going to argue how the defense would have been better if we had better players.

Well..............duh............

T-post Tom
08-14-2011, 09:50 PM
A guy that has the athletic ability and speed to get downfield is not a road grader.

A road grader is a guy that knocks the D-Lineman at the POA on their asses.

Albert, in college, was guy that held his block at the line, disengaged and moved downfield.

I don't think I phrased that very well. I remember watching draft coverage of Albert from the year he was drafted. They were showing foootage of him blocking his d-lineman 20 yards backwards down the field. They were talking about how good he was at the point of attack and how he was a very good runblocker. That said, I think that your definition of a "road grader" might be a little too narrow. There's no reason an O-lineman with relative speed and athletic ability can't be a "road grader." Will Shields comes to mind.

Until he proves otherwise, I'll continue to believe that Albert can be an above average RT. (Maybe someone should post a poll on what position he'll end up playing.) If Gaither ends up being better than Albert at LT, then the coaching staff has a very good problem on their hands.

chiefzilla1501
08-14-2011, 11:21 PM
You're argument was that the guys we had were good enough.

Now you're changing it.

I'm not going to argue how the defense would have been better if we had better players.

Well..............duh............

The original argument was whether a different DC would have turned the '05 Chiefs into a deep playoff contender. Gregg Williams wouldn't have made the moronic move to get rid of Holliday in favor of Hicks. He wouldn't have made the stupid move of moving Wesley to FS. He wouldn't have made the stupid move to force Kendrell Bell and a slow Sammy Knight into the starting lineup. And he would have coached Derrick Johnson, Kawika Mitchell, and Keyaran Fox to play to their potential.

You said the team was slow. Wouldn't you agree that Gun's decision to with Hicks, Knight, and Bell, and move Wesley to Free Safety was a big part of that? And wouldn't you agree that a smart DC wouldn't have made those moves, thereby, making the team faster at 4 key positions?

I doubt Williams would have made the idiotic comment that the 2004 Chiefs were fine the way they were. And I can guarantee that his wish list in 2005 would have been one hell of a lot better than adding Knight/Bell/Surtain/Hall/Siavii. And in those 2 years, he made mind-numbingly stupid personnel decisions and undercoached the young players on the roster.

keg in kc
08-14-2011, 11:31 PM
The original argument was whether a different DC would have turned the '05 Chiefs into a deep playoff contender. Gregg Williams wouldn't have made the moronic move to get rid of Holliday in favor of Hicks.Yeah, cause Holliday was great here.

chiefzilla1501
08-15-2011, 12:34 AM
Yeah, cause Holliday was great here.

I think people are completely misinterpreting. Nobody's saying that the 2005 Chiefs had superstars. I'm saying that at several key positions, Gunther chose to start a complete useless piece of shit over solid players, or just got nothing out of them. Holliday wouldn't have been pro bowl material, but he would have been a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over Hicks. Vonnie Holliday went to Miami and had a solid but unspectacular few years there.

The Chiefs went 10-6 in 2005. Below .500 in 2004. Ask yourself if the Chiefs would have made the playoffs in either year with simply a different DC than Gun. Then ask yourself if they would have made the playoffs starting Holliday over Hicks. Keyaran Fox over Kendrell Bell. If Kawika played like he did with the Giants. If DJ played even a fraction of his potential under Gun's watch. If Wesley stayed at Strong Safety, where he belonged. It's pretty sad when "below average" on defense may actually have been good enough to get us into a deep playoff run.

keg in kc
08-15-2011, 12:58 AM
The Chiefs went 10-6 in 2005. Below .500 in 2004. Ask yourself if the Chiefs would have made the playoffs in either year with simply a different DC than Gun. Then ask yourself if they would have made the playoffs starting Holliday over Hicks. Keyaran Fox over Kendrell Bell. If Kawika played like he did with the Giants. If DJ played even a fraction of his potential under Gun's watch. If Wesley stayed at Strong Safety, where he belonged. It's pretty sad when "below average" on defense may actually have been good enough to get us into a deep playoff run.Playoffs with a different dc? No.

Holliday over Hicks? No. Hicks was simply a better here. Doesn't mean he was good, in a general sense, but he was better than Holliday.

Fox over Bell? No. Role player on his best day.

Kawika with the Giants was what an average LB can look like with an all-world defensive line. Didn't have that here. Coaching wouldn't have fixed that.

DJ? Wasn't he a rookie in 2005?

Wesley was never the problem. Sammy Knight was the problem, along with an over-the-hill Patrick Surtain and Dexter McCleon. And of course Eric Warfield.

Might as well throw the tackles in, too, Sims and Dalton.

It was an incredibly slow, incredibly not-talented unit. It was basically all Jared Allen, and I'm one of the people who was never all that big of a fan of his, either, but that's another discussion.

"Below average" was never going to be good enough. You can't have any holes and be a legitimate playoff team. You need to be exceptional in at least one area to go deep into the playoffs, and you can't be weak anywhere else. You might be able to get by with average. Maybe. But usually with the teams that do, their 'average' units play at a much, much higher level than that in January. Which was never going to happen with the players they had on the roster, defensively-speaking.

Coogs
08-15-2011, 07:48 AM
I recall a conversation we all had at the end of the season last year where one team... I believe it was the Ravens... said they knew what the play was going to be by the way Albert was set up.

Now I don't know if that was the case in the first couple of series Friday where all the plays were running plays with Albert and Richardson at the tackle spots, but on the second play especially... where Barber went across with Charles in motion, and then blitzed right into McCluster basically before McCluster had the handoff... it sure seemed as if Barber knew what was comming.

Now if Gaither does not have this problem, and Albert could move back into LG and maybe not have to expose the play because he is not matched up against a speed rusher, then just maybe our whole offense takes a turn for the better just because the defense has to play straight up not knowing pass or run prior to the snap being made.

Just a thought.