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DeezNutz
08-16-2011, 04:56 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news?slug=cr-renegade_miami_booster_details_illicit_benefits_081611

OnTheWarpath58
08-16-2011, 05:04 PM
...
KEARNEY, N.J. – A University of Miami booster, incarcerated for his role in a $930 million Ponzi scheme, has told Yahoo! Sports he provided thousands of impermissible benefits to at least 72 athletes from 2002 through 2010.

In 100 hours of jailhouse interviews during Yahoo! Sports’ 11-month investigation, Hurricanes booster Nevin Shapiro described a sustained, eight-year run of rampant NCAA rule-breaking, some of it with the knowledge or direct participation of at least seven coaches from the Miami football and basketball programs. At a cost that Shapiro estimates in the millions of dollars, he said his benefits to athletes included but were not limited to cash, prostitutes, entertainment in his multimillion-dollar homes and yacht, paid trips to high-end restaurants and nightclubs, jewelry, bounties for on-field play (including bounties for injuring opposing players), travel and, on one occasion, an abortion.

Also among the revelations were damning details of Shapiro’s co-ownership of a sports agency – Axcess Sports & Entertainment – for nearly his entire tenure as a Hurricanes booster. The same agency that signed two first-round picks from Miami, Vince Wilfork and Jon Beason, and recruited dozens of others while Shapiro was allegedly providing cash and benefits to players. In interviews with federal prosecutors, Shapiro said many of those same players were also being funneled cash and benefits by his partner at Axcess, then-NFL agent and current UFL commissioner Michael Huyghue. Shapiro said he also made payments on behalf of Axcess, including a $50,000 lump sum to Wilfork, as a recruiting tool for the agency.

In an effort to substantiate the booster’s claims, Yahoo! Sports audited approximately 20,000 pages of financial and business records from his bankruptcy case, more than 5,000 pages of cell phone records, multiple interview summaries tied to his federal Ponzi case, and more than 1,000 photos. Nearly 100 interviews were also conducted with individuals living in six different states. In the process, documents, photos and 21 human sources – including nine former Miami players or recruits, and one former coach – corroborated multiple parts of Shapiro’s rule-breaking.

While the NCAA declined comment, Miami associate AD for communications Chris Freet told Yahoo! Sports the school has been cooperating with an NCAA probe to unravel claims the booster has made to investigators. He added that the university unsuccessfully sought an interview with the booster last summer.

“When Shapiro made his allegations nearly a year ago, he and his attorneys refused to provide any facts to the university,” Freet said. “We notified the NCAA enforcement officials of these allegations. We are fully cooperating with the NCAA and are conducting a joint investigation. We take these matters very seriously.”

All told, the length, breadth and depth of the impropriety Shapiro has alleged would potentially breach multiple parts of at least four major NCAA bylaws – and possibly many more. Shapiro described acts that could include violations of multiple parts of bylaw 11, involving impermissible compensation to coaches; multiple parts of bylaw 12, involving amateurism of athletes; multiple parts of bylaw 13, involving improper recruiting activity; and multiple parts of bylaw 16, involving extra benefits to athletes.

Perhaps most troubling is Shapiro’s sustained impropriety could trigger the NCAA’s “willful violations” exception to its four-year statute of limitations. Under bylaw 36.2.3, an investigation can expand beyond the statute if information reveals that an individual tied to a university has engaged in “a pattern of willful violations” over a sustained period beyond the previous four years.

Some of Shapiro’s allegations were outlined in multiple recorded interviews with federal prosecutors – brought on by charges he misappropriated nearly $83 million in investor funds with a fraudulent grocery distribution business. And it was Shapiro’s cooperation in his Ponzi case – which encompassed both fraud and money laundering – which opened the door to his conduct at Miami.

“He agreed to cooperate with the government,” said Shapiro’s attorney, Maria Elena-Perez. “He had to be 100-percent truthful. And it has never been the government’s position that he lied about his conduct or the conduct of others in his discussions with the U.S. Attorney’s office.”

“Once Miami was on the table, it opened up everything in that realm. And his cooperation with the NCAA was another level of him coming clean about conduct that wasn’t above board with investor funds – specifically things he was doing with everyone in the UM athletic program.”

Ultimately, what documents show is a booster who broke NCAA rules while simultaneously making tens of thousands of dollars in annual contributions to Miami’s athletic program. All while incurring massive bills aligning himself socially with a stable of Miami players. A stable that features multiple elite players such as Wilfork, Beason, Andre Johnson, Devin Hester, Kellen Winslow Jr., Antrel Rolle and many more – including at least 12 players currently on the Hurricanes roster.


“Here’s the thing: Luther Campbell was the first uncle who took care of players before I got going,” Shapiro said, referring to the entertainer notorious for supplying cash to Miami players in the 1980s and 1990s. “His role was diminished by the NCAA and the school, and someone needed to pick up that mantle. That someone was me. He was ‘Uncle Luke’, and I became ‘Little Luke.’

“I became a booster in late 2001, and by early 2002, I was giving kids gifts. From the start, I wasn’t really challenged. And once I got going, it just got bigger and bigger. I just did what I wanted and didn’t pay much mind toward the potential repercussions.”

In 15 prison interviews with Yahoo! Sports and hundreds of telephone and email interactions, Shapiro laid out a multitude of reasons for blowing the whistle on his illicit booster activity. Chief is his feeling that after spending eight years forging what he thought were legitimate friendships with players, he was abandoned by many of the same Miami athletes he treated so well. He told Yahoo! Sports that following his incarceration, he asked multiple players for financial help – either with bail money, or assistance to individuals close to the booster. Shapiro admitted some of those inquiries included angry letters and phone calls to players whom he provided benefits.

“Some of those players – a lot of those players – we used to say we were a family,” Shapiro said. “Well, who do you go to for help when you need it? You go to your family. Why the hell wouldn’t I go to them?”

Now feeling outcast, the booster said his goal is to rip away the façade of ‘The U’, and reveal an ugly truth about one of the country’s most celebrated college football programs.

“Yeah, I’m guilty,” said Shapiro, whose plea to counts of securities fraud, conspiracy to commit securities fraud and money laundering resulted in a 20-year federal prison sentence. Shapiro also has one prior conviction on his record – an assault case from 1995 in which he pled guilty to punching a nightclub owner. Shapiro was sentenced to 18 months probation in that case.

“I’ve pled guilty to my crime,” the booster said. “I understand the public perception of me and that’s going to be what it’s going to be. My name has been dragged through the mud as much as it could be. But remember, when Jose Canseco told the truth about the steroid problems in baseball, he was considered a dirty rat. Everyone said he was bitter, he was out of baseball, he’s out of money, he was this and that. But he changed the face of the game. I don’t care if I change the face of the game. But I’m telling the truth about what happened at Miami. It’s the truth. And you tell me, why should the University of Miami be exempt from the truth?”

Now, almost a decade after he officially became a University of Miami booster, Shapiro’s truth could potentially dismantle a program he says he has loved for much of his life. After initially threatening to write a tell-all book in August of 2010, Shapiro shelved the project and began cooperating with a Yahoo! Sports investigation in December. Four months later, in March, he said he opened a line of communication with NCAA investigators and began turning over materials to corroborate his claims.

“It’s all true,” said one of Shapiro’s ex-girlfriends, who asked to remain anonymous out of fear of reprisals from former Miami players. “He took care of them. What does that mean? It has a lot of meanings. He took care of them by giving cash to make sure they had stuff. He took care of them whenever they wanted to go party. He took care of them by getting them laid. He took care of them if they needed a place to stay. Whatever they needed, at that moment they needed it, Nevin would provide it. Whether it was sex, money, meals, a new TV, if their mother needed something, if they needed a new ring or some jewelry – whatever they needed, Nevin would provide it.”

And Shapiro’s justification for his actions? He said it was simple.

“I did it because I could,” he said. “And because nobody stepped in to stop me.”

A Miami transplant in early childhood from his birthplace of Brooklyn, N.Y., Shapiro, 42, said he became a Hurricanes fan in the same manner of many over the last two decades. He fell in love with “The U” as a young boy living in Miami Beach, voraciously seeking tickets through the turbulent but successful tenures of Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson and Butch Davis. Like many, he was drawn to the mixture of grit, flash and swagger of Miami football, which seemed to mirror the soul of the city just north of Coral Gables.

While his financial records prior to 2003 have remained difficult to completely detail, sources told Yahoo! Sports that Shapiro made money the same way many did early in that decade – profiting from aggressive real estate deals in a robust and growing Miami Beach market. And that opened some financial doors, including the ability to afford a $12,000 price tag to become a Hurricanes booster in 2001. It was that season Shapiro became a “living scholar,” which was Miami’s way of pairing up a player who, in theory, was having his scholarship funded by his living scholar booster. The living scholar program is approved by the NCAA.

Shapiro’s first living scholar athlete was a then-little used freshman running back named Willis McGahee. For the 2001 season, Shapiro said the two had an unremarkable relationship – just the modest allowable contact of a home-cooked meal and a few less-than-memorable conversations at team outings. But Shapiro said his role would quickly change after the team’s awards banquet in December of 2001, when he met a mountainous freshman defensive tackle named Vince Wilfork, and junior defensive end Andrew Williams, who had played a key role on one of the best defenses in college football history.

“Everything started when I gave some Miami Heat basketball tickets to Andrew Williams,” Shapiro said. “I had given some guys my business card at the [2001] awards banquet, including Andrew. We kept in touch after the season ended, and I ended up giving him the tickets. It was like nothing. I didn’t even think about it.”

Williams denied receiving any gifts from Shapiro.

“Who, me?” Williams said. “Man, naw.”

But Shapiro insists it was that one simple act that began to change everything. Later in that same offseason prior to the 2002 season, Shapiro says he bought a big-screen television at BrandsMart USA for Williams’ apartment. A burgeoning relationship of gifts led to Shapiro’s introduction to Williams’ two roommates – Cornelius Green and Jerome McDougle.

Shapiro said he liked his three new friends instantly. And he never thought twice about whether he should continue – and deepen – his financial generosity. Particularly after he met Green, a large, charismatic defensive end who Shapiro said wasted little time laying the groundwork for the booster to become acquainted with his teammates. In turn, Shapiro said he quickly indulged the players’ interest to take whatever he was willing to provide – offerings that escalated quickly from basketball tickets and televisions to parties on entire floors of suites at South Beach’s Mercury Hotel where he said he made scores of prostitutes available.

“It really started with me developing a strong relationship with Corn,” Shapiro said. “He was really like a queen bee of the players. Through Cornelius it was like I was meeting every single guy – almost every guy on the roster – [and] specifically the frontline players, the star players.

“As word spread – and it spread fast – guys were just coming up to me. By the time the next season came around, I even recall Antrel Rolle and Sean Taylor, they were just coming off their freshman years and not really stars yet, just walking up and introducing themselves and wanting to get in on the party.

“I didn’t even have to push the situations. Once it started and guys knew they could come to me, it escalated quickly.”

Green and McDougle could not be reached for comment.

However, eight former Miami players or recruits confirmed receiving illicit benefits from Shapiro.

That included former Miami running back Tyrone Moss, who was one of dozens of players Shapiro named when speaking to NCAA investigators about his activity with Hurricanes players. According to Shapiro, he hosted Moss on his $1.6 million yacht and also gave the player a $1,000 cash payment.

When contacted by Yahoo! Sports, Moss affirmed being aboard Shapiro’s yacht.

Asked if he had been given $1,000 by the booster during their first meeting, Moss said: “Yeah. It was me and some other players with my incoming [class]. I’m not going to say the names but you can probably figure them out yourself. When I was getting there my freshman year, it was me and a couple more players. … It was me and a few more of the guys in my incoming class that he kind of showed some love to.”

Another player – who also admitted taking benefits but requested anonymity – said he was aware that Moss took money from Shapiro and supported the decision.

“The guy had a kid while he was in college, a little Tyrone Jr.,” the player said. “He comes in poor as (expletive) from Pompano and he’s got a little kid to feed. I could barely feed myself. I can’t imagine having to feed a kid, too. Of course he’s going to take it when someone offers him $1,000.”

“Who wouldn’t in that situation?”

Yahoo! Sports has detailed Shapiro’s specific allegations involving 73 players (Shapiro claims he gave impermissible benefits to 72), seven coaches and three support staff members who he said either received illicit benefits, witnessed the booster giving them, or played some role in his improper activity.

Multiple sources who interacted with Shapiro corroborated in detail the manner in which the booster doled out specific benefits as he violated NCAA rules. Among the sources are three former Miami players who each received benefits from Shapiro, a bodyguard who played a role in facilitating the activity, a high-end restaurateur who benefitted from Shapiro’s relationship with players, an ex-girlfriend, multiple friends and a former neighbor who witnessed the behavior firsthand.

Out of fear of retribution from former or current Hurricanes players, the sources asked that their names not be revealed. Among the NCAA violations Shapiro and other sources described:


• NCAA rule-breaking with coaches and staffers: Shapiro said he violated NCAA rules with the knowledge or direct participation of at least six coaches – Clint Hurtt, Jeff Stoutland and Aubrey Hill on the football staff, and Frank Haith, Jake Morton and Jorge Fernandez on the basketball staff. Multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports Shapiro also violated NCAA rules with football assistant Joe Pannunzio, although the booster refused to answer any questions about that relationship. Shapiro also named assistant football equipment manager Sean Allen as someone who engaged in rulebreaking, and equipment managers Ralph Nogueras and Joey Corey as witnesses to some of his impropriety.

Among the specific incidents, Shapiro or other sources say Hurtt, Hill, Stoutland, Pannunzio and Allen all delivered top-tier recruits to Shapiro’s home or luxury suite so the booster could make recruiting pitches to them. Among the players who were ushered to Shapiro while they were still in high school: Eventual Miami commitments Ray-Ray Armstrong, Dyron Dye and Olivier Vernon (prompted by Hurtt); eventual Florida commitments Andre Debose (Hurtt) and Matt Patchan (prompted by Stoutland and Pannunzio); eventual Georgia commitment Orson Charles (Pannunzio); and eventual Central Florida commitment Jeffrey Godfrey (Allen).

The University of Alabama (Pannunzio and Soutland), University of Florida (Hill) and Louisville University (Hurtt) all declined to make the coaches available for interviews. Allen declined comment, calling all of Shapiro’s claims “egregious and false.”

But Shapiro insists he came in contact with multiple recruits improperly during their official or unofficial visits going all the way back to 2002.

“Hell yeah, I recruited a lot of kids for Miami,” Shapiro said. “With access to the clubs, access to the strip joints. My house. My boat. We’re talking about high school football players. Not anybody can just get into the clubs or strip joints. Who is going to pay for it and make it happen? That was me.”

The booster said his role went one step farther with the basketball program, when he paid $10,000 to help secure the commitment of recruit DeQuan Jones. Shapiro said the transaction was set up by assistant coach Jake Morton in 2007 who acted as the conduit for the funds, and was later acknowledged by head coach Frank Haith in a one-on-one conversation.

Haith denied Shapiro’s claims through a University of Missouri spokesman. Morton, who is now at Western Kentucky, didn’t return a call seeking comment.

Shapiro also entertained then-prominent AAU basketball coach Moe Hicks in October of 2008, with a nightclub visit that was attended by both Morton and Fernandez.

OnTheWarpath58
08-16-2011, 05:05 PM
...

• Prostitution: Shapiro named 39 Miami players or prospective recruits who he says received prostitution paid for by the booster. Due to the sensitivity of the claims, Yahoo! Sports has chosen not to reveal the names of the players Shapiro claims were involved. However, two players confirmed the booster paid for sexual favors for themselves and others during their careers with the Hurricanes.

As for Shapiro, he said his role in arranging for prostitutes encountered various cosmetic changes over time. From 2002 to 2003, the booster said he used a handful of hotels to either make the services of prostitutes available to individual players, or throw “parties” where services were made available to multiple players. The booster said he would use connections with escorts or at local strip clubs to arrange for the availability of women.

In individual situations, he would set up a player with a hotel room and have a woman sent to their location. In group settings, Shapiro said he would use the Mercury Hotel in South Beach, where he would purchase multiple rooms where array of women would be made available to a large group of players. The rooms were typically registered under the alias “Teddy Dupay” – a reference to the former University of Florida point guard whose 5-foot-9 stature and features were similar to the 5-foot-5 Shapiro.

Shapiro described one such party in graphic detail, taking place at the Mercury Hotel during Miami’s off-week in September of 2002 and featuring multiple women hired to have sex with players. The booster said he rented out several suites on a single night and entertained a handful of Hurricanes players.

While Shapiro said he commonly paid cash for rooms and registered them under an alias to avoid a paper trail for the NCAA, Yahoo! Sports was able to identify a handful of Mercury Hotel charges on the debit card from his Wachovia statements. One charge in particular took place for rooms reserved on Sunday, Sept. 29, 2002 and settled on Monday, Sept. 30. The charges, which totaled $1,215.77, took place on Miami’s off week between a 38-6 win over Boston College and a 48-14 win against Connecticut.


Shortly after the purchase of Shapiro’s $1.6 million yacht in the spring of 2003, the booster said he stopped convening larger scale “parties” and began offering prostitutes for individual players on his boat or in hotel rooms. One former offensive starter for the Hurricanes confirmed to Yahoo! Sports that he had sex with a prostitute paid for by Shapiro and confirmed that other teammates did as well. He described in detail how the incident took place, but asked that the specifics not be shared for publication for fear of retribution.


Said Shapiro: “In 2002 and 2003 we were really rocking it for a while and it was just out of control. But I decided to get away from the regular Mercury Hotel situations. I was getting too old for that kind of thing, and I had the boat for prostitution situations. I still set up guys at hotels with individual-type things, but I never really used the Mercury after getting the boat.”

The booster said while he paid for prostitutes to be available to players, Shapiro didn’t engage in sex with the women.

“I chose to pay and facilitate,” he said. “Nothing more.”

• Cash payments/bounties/tournaments: While Shapiro said he never had a specific “payroll” for players, he did use a number of avenues to pay athletes. With players in his inner circle, Shapiro said he was often asked and never declined to give varying amounts of cash to a player who requested it out of need. Shapiro’s ex-girlfriend said the transactions would often take place at Shapiro’s home and that she witnessed him giving cash to multiple players while the two were together.

According to summary documents acquired by Yahoo! Sports, it was such a regular occurrence that one of the other defendants in Shapiro’s Ponzi case, Roberto Torres, testified to it with federal prosecutors. Torres, who was the chief financial officer of Shapiro’s Capitol Investments, told prosecutors he witnessed the booster paying Hurricanes football players in his Miami Beach mansion, and said he had “concern” Shapiro was being used by the athletes.

Torres has pled guilty to a count of securities fraud and is awaiting sentencing.

Shapiro also set up various “tournaments” where players won money for fishing, bowling and playing pool. And in the spirit of Luther Campbell’s history with the program, Shapiro said he started a bounty system in 2002 tied to both rivalry games such as Florida State and Florida, and also games against highly ranked opponents.

The system is similar to the one reputed fan of the program Campbell was alleged to be running in the 1980s, in which he reportedly paid athletes for big plays. That activity came under NCAA scrutiny during a Pell Grant scandal revealed in a federal investigation in 1994. Fifty-seven Hurricanes football players were named in that scandal.

Three sources, including two former Miami football players, confirmed that Shaprio offered bounties.

The booster told Yahoo! Sports he had a number of individual payouts for “hit of the game” and “big plays.” He also put bounties on specific players, including Florida Gators quarterback Tim Tebow and a three-year standing bounty on Seminoles quarterback Chris Rix from 2002 to 2004, offering $5,000 to any player who knocked him out of a game.

“We pounded the (expletive) out of that kid,” Shapiro said of Rix. “Watch the tape of those games. You’ll see so many big hits on him. Guys were all going after that $5,000 in cash. [Jon] Vilma tried to kill him – just crushed him – a couple of times trying to get that $5,000. And he almost got it, too.”

Vilma didn’t return a call seeking comment.

• Jewelry/clothing/travel/televisions/rims: Various gifts were provided for a variety of reasons – sometimes as tokens to celebrate special occasions, other times as recruiting inducements for Shapiro’s agency, Axcess Sports. The booster said he doled out tens of thousands of dollars in jewelry for players, including watches (Tavares Gooden and Antrel Rolle), diamond-studded dog tags (Sean Taylor) and an engagement ring (Devin Hester). He also spent thousands of dollars on suits and clothing for Hester, Gooden and McGahee at Fashion Clothiers – purchases that were confirmed to Yahoo! Sports by the store’s owner, Shelly Bloom.

Shapiro bought plane tickets for two of McGahee’s female acquaintances to attend the 2002 Heisman Trophy ceremony and flew D.J. Williams’ mother from California to Miami to spend time with her son and meet with Shapiro’s partner at Axcess Sports, Michael Huyghue.

Televisions were purchased for Andrew Williams and Sam Shields, and the booster said he also gave Hester cash to buy rims for his SUV.

Gooden, McGahee, Hester, Shields and D.J. Williams didn’t return calls seeking comment. Andrew Williams denied taking gifts from Shapiro.

Nevin Shapiro said he took this Biscayne Bay photo on the back of his $1.6 million yacht in the summer of 2003. Pictured from left to right are D.J. Williams, Kellen Winslow Jr. and then-Nebraska defensive end Benard Thomas.

• House/yacht privileges: Shapiro had two primary Miami Beach residences during his time as a booster – a large $2.7 million poolside home located in the interior of Miami Beach, and a lavish $6.1 million coastal Mediterranean estate located on the west side of Miami Beach. The multitude of players in Shapiro’s inner circle were welcome to come and go at both properties with regularity.

Shapiro often invited players to his home to watch sports, shoot pool, or just relax. And he stocked the house with food, drinks and liquor that were readily available to guests.

One of Shapiro’s neighbors near the $2.7 million home said the booster invited him inside in 2002, where he met and spent time with McDougle and Green. The neighbor said the house’s driveway and street in front of the property were often filled with cars of players who were at Shapiro’s home.

“Put it this way: there were times I’d be on my way home and I’d roll by the house and the whole thing, and there was a lot going on there. A lot,” the neighbor said.

“Players and cars and all that.”

Shapiro’s $1.6 million yacht was also available to players on a regular basis for fishing trips, leisure trips and lodging for the availability of prostitution. Like his home, Shapiro stocked the boat with food and drinks and paid for fuel and captain fees any time players would take the yacht out – a process that cost in excess of $2,000 per trip depending on gas prices and maintenance. That reality that was spelled out in additional federal testimony in Shapiro’s Ponzi case, when the booster’s former business partner, Torres, informed federal prosecutors that Miami athletes were taking Shapiro’s boat out “twice a week” while the booster was incurring all of the costs.

This page from Nevin Shapiro’s August 2008 Black American Express statement shows a multiple charges to Prime 112 and Solid Gold strip club which he says have Miami ties. PDF file
(Special to Yahoo! Sports)

• Strip clubs/night clubs: Visits to strip clubs and night clubs were the most consistent staple of Shapiro’s relationship with players, dating back to 2002 and running nearly up to his incarceration in April of 2010. One of Shapiro’s bodyguards said his security detail had a consistent routine in place that it repeated several times a week: travel to a nightclub or strip club prior to Shapiro; make the club security aware that the booster would be arriving with a large group; secure Shapiro’s VIP area; and be on hand to whisk the booster and his contingent of players past any lines and into the privacy of their own area, where Shapiro would often spend thousands of dollars per night on bottles of liquor and champagne.

Shapiro rotated through multiple strip clubs with players on a regular basis – Solid Gold, The Cheetah, Pink Pony and Tootsies Cabaret. Shapiro often arrived to the clubs with thick wads of cash to spend on the dancers. Despite that, his additional credit card charges for just Solid Gold from mid 2005 to 2010 totaled $32,683.25.

Strip club visits included both coaches and players – something that was referenced in a portion of federal testimony by Chicago real estate investor Sherwin Jarol, who was deposed in Shapiro’s Ponzi case. At one point in his testimony, a recording of which was viewed by Yahoo! Sports, Jarol describes a pair of August 2008 visits to Solid Gold nightclub with Shapiro. He says “the coach of the Miami basketball” team (Frank Haith) attended one trip. Further in his testimony, he testifies that he “believe(s) there were a couple football players” and added “they all seemed to have a relationship with Nevin. Some stayed at his house,” he said.

It was a regular occurrence for Shapiro to purchase private rooms for athletes inside the strip club – when the booster would give dancers cash to engage in whatever behavior the players desired.

Equally consistent if not more frequent were Shapiro’s visits to multiple nightclubs, where he also favored paying his bills with stacks of cash. But that didn’t stop massive charges from overflowing onto his credit cards. According to his statements, the reputed Hurricanes hotspot of Miami Beach’s Mansion nightclub racked up $83,963.52 in charges on Shapiro’s American Express bills from early 2005 to early 2009.

“We rocked Mansion so many times, I couldn’t even count them,” Shapiro said. “And I never went in there once without players, because it’s just not the kind of place that you’d go to without them.”

One former Miami player who received benefits from Shapiro told Yahoo! Sports he believed that was a credible claim, stating he went to Mansion as many as 20 times with the booster while playing for the Hurricanes, and never knew of occasions when Shapiro hadn’t brought athletes to the club.

• Meals/entertainment: Meals were another consistent staple of benefits provided by Shapiro, including meals at Prime 112, Grazie, Prime Italian, Benihana and other establishments.

“He was always bringing athletes in to eat and introducing me to them,” said a restaurateur at one high-end Miami Beach eatery. “Lots of big guys. Lots of University of Miami guys. Nevin did a lot of business with me. He spent a lot of money and made a lot of nights for me.”

• Lodging/apartment: Shapiro said he provided lodging on occasion on his yacht or in his homes for players in his inner circle when needed, including varying stints for players such as Devin Hester, Graig Cooper, Kevin Everett, Vince Wilfork. He also allowed Tavares Gooden to use one of his rental properties – a studio apartment in the Mirador condos – for more than a month.

Gooden didn’t return a call seeking comment.

• Abortion: In one instance, Shapiro described taking a player to the Pink Pony strip club and paying for a dancer to engage in sex with the athlete. In the ensuing weeks, Shapiro said the dancer called one of his security providers and informed him that the player had gotten her pregnant during the incident. Shapiro said he gave the dancer $500 to have an abortion performed, without notifying the player of the incident.

“I was doing him a favor,” the booster said. “That idiot might have wanted to keep [the baby].”

Due to the sensitivity of the allegation, Yahoo! Sports has chosen not to name the player allegedly involved.

OnTheWarpath58
08-16-2011, 05:05 PM
...

• Axcess Sports benefits: According to Shapiro, the system for recruiting players to sign with Axcess Sports was actually compartmentalized between himself and Huyghue. The booster would use his close relationship with players to make an introduction to Huyghue, and then he would retreat from agency talk from that point forward and leave it to Huyghue to grow his own relationship and sign the player.

In that vein, Shapiro said it was also up to Huyghue to develop his own financial link to kids, providing his own set of extra benefits to athletes as he saw fit, including cash payments, travel and other inducements. And Shapiro told federal prosecutors that’s precisely what Huyghue did, giving multiple illicit benefits, including cash, to several players at Miami. Claims that Huyghue called “fantasy.”

“He’s a convicted felon,” Huyghue said. “I just don’t want to get into such fantasy. I just wouldn’t want to even go down that path. I don’t even care what he said. Whatever he could say, there’s just no substance to it.”

But while Huyghue denied ever funneling to players, one former Hurricane told Yahoo! Sports he received multiple extra benefits from both Shapiro and Huyghue during his career. The player described the benefits in detail but asked that they not be revealed, as the specific nature of them likely would reveal his identity.

“Nevin just kind of introduced me to Michael and that was it,” the player said. “After that, Michael and I had our own relationship, and it had nothing to do with Nevin. … Yeah, Michael did give me some things.”

Moss added that players in the Miami program were well aware how Shapiro and Huyghue worked in unison for a sports agency.

“Nevin basically was the front man,” Moss said. “Nevin got to be close one-on-one with a player. And when it was time to actually come out into the draft, it was like ‘You’re rolling with me and that agent.’ And the thing is, it was almost like he had given so much to where it was like you gotta ride with him with most players. That’s how that was.”

In hindsight, Shapiro says if anything came close to revealing his impropriety, it was his partial ownership in Axcess Sports. After meeting Huyghue in 2002, the booster paid $1.5 million for a 30-percent stake in the company with the implicit goal of transforming his relationships with Hurricanes athletes into something positive for both him and the players. Shapiro was looking to build a successful sports representation business, and he believed the players would benefit from having Huyghue as their agent.

By 2007, he’d helped Axcess Sports land two first-round picks from Miami’s program. The first was Wilfork, thanks to Shapiro’s relationship and a $50,000 lump sum payment the booster said he gave to the defensive tackle during his junior season. Later, the booster said he provided a pair of $50,000 Cadillac Escalades to Wilfork and his fiancée shortly after the defensive tackle declared for the draft. The second player was Beason, who according to Shapiro and multiple sources – including another Miami player – had a close relationship with the booster for almost his entire career with the Hurricanes.

But Shapiro said his stake in Axcess jeopardized his standing as a booster on at least one occasion. During the final game in the Orange Bowl in 2007, with the Hurricanes being embarrassed 31-0 at the half against Virginia, Shapiro, intoxicated, said he confronted Miami’s head of compliance, David Reed. According to a witness to the event, an incensed Shapiro was stalking through the Orange Bowl press box at halftime when he spotted Reed.

In a rage, Shapiro began cursing at the compliance director, calling him a “sissy” and other derogatory names, while attempting to draw him into a fight. In Shapiro’s mind, Reed was part of the problem in a slumping Miami program, largely for what Shapiro thought was too much oversight on relationships between players and boosters. And in Shapiro’s mind, that was worth fighting picking a fistfight with the head of compliance in a crowded press box.

“It was a huge scene,” said a witness who helped pull Shapiro away on that day. “All the people in the press box, the people sitting in the seats, they were all watching the entire thing. Nevin wanted to fight him. He was up in his face screaming. I was like ‘Oh my God. He’s going to punch [Reed] in the face.’”

Shapiro was eventually pulled away, but the booster said in the days following the incident, he was contacted by a friend in the Hurricanes athletic department – Associate Athletic Director of Development Lindsey Radeer. According to Shapiro, Radeer said Reed had done a background check on him following the incident, and was alarmed when he realized Shapiro was part owner of a sports representation agency. But Shapiro said Radeer assured the booster he wasn’t going to come under any additional scrutiny.

“I thought [Reed] was an (expletive),” Shapiro said. “But the truth is, he was doing his job. And he was absolutely right, I shouldn’t have been around the players.”

Yahoo! Sports recounted this incident to a Miami spokesperson and asked that Radeer be made available for comment, however, the university declined due to the ongoing NCAA investigation.

In hindsight, Shapiro said he looks at that moment and realizes Miami could have seized on countless incidents and ended his flagrant assault on NCAA bylaws. Just a 20-minute drive northwest from campus, across one of the causeways and into Miami Beach, Shapiro’s high-rolling routine with Hurricanes football players was on display on a daily basis. And according to Shapiro, all Miami needed to do was look.

But instead, Shapiro said he was enabled by the university, allowed to run the entire Miami team out of tunnel and onto the field – twice – and once honored on the field by former athletic director Paul Dee during a game. The same Paul Dee who wagged a finger at USC as the chairman of the NCAA’s committee on infractions in 2010, chiding the Reggie Bush/O.J. Mayo scandal as a systematic failure.

“High-profile players demand high-profile compliance,” Dee said while announcing USC’s sanctions.

Now Shapiro says Miami’s athletic compliance – Dee’s own backyard while Shapiro was operating – suffered one catastrophic oversight after another.

“If they had hired a private investigator for a day, it would have been the easiest job that guy ever had,” Shapiro said. “It would have been over in five minutes. You would have had all the information you needed. Follow me to a nightclub or a strip club. Lunches. Dinners. The boat. Hotels for parties. All the outings at Lucky Strike. These guys were at my house. There was all kinds of (expletive) going on in. Gambling. Pool tournaments. Prostitution. Drinking.”

“Actually, you didn’t even need to follow me. You could have just followed my bodyguards, who were taking kids home because they were too drunk to drive at the end of our nights.”

But Shapiro says therein lies the twist. He believes the University of Miami didn’t want to know what he was doing – that the school looked the other way because it was desperate to retain a booster who had donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the program. Indeed, by the time his investment business began to fail and the federal authorities were closing in, Shapiro had committed to a $250,000 pledge that led to an athlete lounge on the Miami campus being named in his honor.

He had also donated $50,000 to the basketball program in 2008, complete with a photo that Shapiro says summed up the entire problem at the university. In a snapshot from that day, Shapiro is talking into a microphone, with Haith – a coach the booster allegedly helped to buy a recruit – looking on and smiling. In the background, University of Miami president Donna Shalala is grinning at the check Shapiro had just donated, a $50,000 contribution that he now admits was Ponzi money.

“That’s the whole problem right there,” Shapiro said of the picture. “Let’s not kid ourselves. The whole time I was out there rocking and rolling, they were just waiting for the big check to come. And you know what? If I wasn’t sitting in jail right now, they probably would have gotten it, too.”

Yahoo! Sports contributor Rand Getlin assisted with this report. Contact Yahoo! Sports investigative reporter Charles Robinson at WindyCityScribe@yahoo.com

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Great hire.

RUSH
08-16-2011, 05:07 PM
Incredible journalism wow. That was a fantastic piece. Prostitution, abortion and hundreds of thousands of dollars given out to players. Death penalty upcoming.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

BCD
08-16-2011, 05:08 PM
Good God. Is there Cliffs notes?

I'm far too lazy to read all that.

DeezNutz
08-16-2011, 05:08 PM
Great hire.

Imagine what a tactician like Doc could do at Mizzou...

In all seriousness, the hire was a poor one at the time, but he was sold as a man of integrity to the board. The picture of Haith definitely calls this into question. Dude could be innocent, but it looks extremely shady right now.

DeezNutz
08-16-2011, 05:10 PM
Good God. Is there Cliffs notes?

I'm far too lazy to read all that.

Rich dude befriended star athletes. Wild parties and lavish gifts ensue, with coaches' knowledge. Booster even recruited star football and basketball players.

Haith obviously provides the local connection, and the coach is even pictured with the booster.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-16-2011, 05:11 PM
Good God. Is there Cliffs notes?

I'm far too lazy to read all that.

I believe the correct lexicon is tldr

|Zach|
08-16-2011, 05:12 PM
Gah! The picture is going to be a bigger deal than it should be but the info in there is just damning as hell.

ChiefsCountry
08-16-2011, 05:12 PM
Miami is making SMU look pretty mild.

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 05:12 PM
Imagine what a tactician like Doc could do at Mizzou...

In all seriousness, the hire was a poor one at the time, but he was sold as a man of integrity to the board. The picture of Haith definitely calls this into question. Dude could be innocent, but it looks extremely shady right now.

I wish Doc was smart enough to hire prostitutes for his recruits look at the kind of talent he brings in.

Honestly Deez I think most of you guys were smart enough to know that this probably isn't going to end well for the basketball program.

KCUnited
08-16-2011, 05:12 PM
DAMN.

That guy just kept talking and talking and talking, he brought up Luke Skyywalker. A lot of people's lives in that read.

|Zach|
08-16-2011, 05:12 PM
Good God. Is there Cliffs notes?

I'm far too lazy to read all that.

How sad.

DeezNutz
08-16-2011, 05:15 PM
I wish Doc was smart enough to hire prostitutes for his recruits look at the kind of talent he brings in.

Honestly Deez I think most of you guys were smart enough to know that this probably isn't going to end well for the basketball program.

I just thought he was going to be a shitty coach. I didn't imagine that he might be significantly involved in what could end up being one of the biggest scandals in major college sports. Damn.

BCD
08-16-2011, 05:16 PM
How sad.Tragic

Brock
08-16-2011, 05:17 PM
ROFL

BCD
08-16-2011, 05:18 PM
Rich dude befriended star athletes. Wild parties and lavish gifts ensue, with coaches' knowledge. Booster even recruited star football and basketball players.

Haith obviously provides the local connection, and the coach is even pictured with the booster.Thanks.

Dante84
08-16-2011, 05:19 PM
RUH ROH

|Zach|
08-16-2011, 05:23 PM
Quite an investigative piece...lots of documentation. However...the part about Haith and the recruit seems the least explained.

Al Bundy
08-16-2011, 05:24 PM
Typical scUM crap. I hope they burn that football program to the ground.

ChiefsCountry
08-16-2011, 05:31 PM
Looks like the $EC just found member #14. :)

CoMoChief
08-16-2011, 05:31 PM
I remember freshman yr Kevin young and Jimmy McKinney (lived down the hall from me) used to tell me bball booster would hire "Tiger girls" to take out recruits for a night on the town and basically take them back to the hotel and **** their brains out.

I'm more than sure this happens everywhere.....but given what Quin did to that program, MU was finally getting out of that mess with MA, I don't think they can afford to have any ties with anything that went on in MIA with their new HC. Like Zach said, there's a lot of info there.

CoMoChief
08-16-2011, 05:33 PM
7th Floor Crew - Greatest rap song evah!!!!

SoCalBronco
08-16-2011, 05:41 PM
Typical scUM crap. I hope they burn that football program to the ground.

Fuck you.

BCD
08-16-2011, 05:43 PM
Looks like Ohio St is off the hook.

CoMoChief
08-16-2011, 05:45 PM
Looks like Ohio St is off the hook.

of course they are, they're the biggest AD in the country not named Texas. NCAA ($$$) depends a lot on their successes in a way.

Now if it was someone like Univ of Tulsa, they'd get the ****ing axe. NCAA is ****ed up man.

BCD
08-16-2011, 05:47 PM
of course they are, they're the biggest AD in the country not named Texas. NCAA ($$$) depends a lot on their successes in a way.

Now if it was someone like Univ of Tulsa, they'd get the ****ing axe. NCAA is ****ed up man.Well, mainly because this story is far more interesting than selling shit for tattoos.

Param
08-16-2011, 05:50 PM
Throw the book at them.

Demonpenz
08-16-2011, 05:54 PM
Throw the book at them.

they wouldnt be able to read it

|Zach|
08-16-2011, 05:55 PM
Mizzou coach Frank Haith: "The reports questioning my personal interactions with Mr. Shapiro are not an accurate portrayal of my character."

KCUnited
08-16-2011, 05:57 PM
Allen Bailey, tearing through O linemen like booster provided pussy.

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 05:57 PM
Mizzou coach Frank Haith: "The reports questioning my personal interactions with Mr. Shapiro are not an accurate portrayal of my character."

Lol yea whats he gonna say? Pimps up Hoes down?

KChiefs1
08-16-2011, 05:57 PM
This has the SEC's seal of approval.

ChiefsCountry
08-16-2011, 06:06 PM
Where is douchebag 88?

Bambi
08-16-2011, 06:12 PM
This has the SEC's seal of approval.

:bravo:

Sure-Oz
08-16-2011, 06:14 PM
@KCSportsJournal Shapiro: "We spent some personal nights at [strip club] between him (Haith) and assistant coach Morton."

chiefzilla1501
08-16-2011, 06:16 PM
JFC.

The NCAA is a fucking joke.

Rather than create a witchhunt finding ways that 99% of programs cheat, why not just admit that every fucking program is crooked and either deal with it or actually enforce the rules in place.

I could care less about the U. But the idea that they're doing anything different from the other hundreds of crooked programs is laughable.

But this should be interesting. Can't wait to hear the explanation for why this is the 20th program that bended the rules but didnt' break them.

Pants
08-16-2011, 06:23 PM
Doesn't look good at all, man:

Strip club visits included both coaches and players – something that was referenced in a portion of federal testimony by Chicago real estate investor Sherwin Jarol, who was deposed in Shapiro’s Ponzi case. At one point in his testimony, a recording of which was viewed by Yahoo! Sports, Jarol describes a pair of August 2008 visits to Solid Gold nightclub with Shapiro. He says “the coach of the Miami basketball” team (Frank Haith) attended one trip. Further in his testimony, he testifies that he “believe(s) there were a couple football players” and added “they all seemed to have a relationship with Nevin. Some stayed at his house,” he said.

At least Haith hasn't really established himself as a Missouri coach yet, they should cut the ties ASAP, IMO.

gblowfish
08-16-2011, 06:24 PM
"Ring.....Ring...Click... Hello?"
"Kim Anderson?, this is Mike Alden. Whatcha up to, say, in about a month?"

Sure-Oz
08-16-2011, 06:32 PM
http://t.co/Hf89rzA

Summary of Haith's involvement for the lazy fucks

Ebolapox
08-16-2011, 06:32 PM
haithers gonna haith.

Spott
08-16-2011, 06:32 PM
Typical scUM crap. I hope they burn that football program to the ground.

Or they could just continue to be mediocre and irrelevant like they are now.

Trevo_410
08-16-2011, 06:41 PM
haithers gonna haith.

i had faith in haith ever since he signed. not a fan after reading this however. Looks like we'll have another coach pretty soon..

Bambi
08-16-2011, 06:41 PM
@KCSportsJournal Shapiro: "We spent some personal nights at [strip club] between him (Haith) and assistant coach Morton."

oh shit. I'm likin this Haith guy more and more

Brock
08-16-2011, 06:42 PM
This what they be sayin

Yahoo! Sports sought comment through the University of Missouri sports information department. “Those things that are coming out with football didn’t have anything to do with Frank’s basketball program,” Missouri spokesman Dave Reiter said. “I would say you would probably need to talk to the University of Miami if something happened on his watch. We had a chance to talk to Coach Haith and he’s had no involvement with this Mr. Shapiro guy. There’s nothing. Those are all football violations and allegations. There’s nothing dealing with basketball. Those violations have nothing involved with men’s basketball.’’

JoeyChuckles
08-16-2011, 06:43 PM
Lolz, Frank Haith had players being paid and recruited and he still had that crappy record. What's he gonna do at MU?

Spott
08-16-2011, 06:45 PM
If it gets him fired, I'm all for it.

Bambi
08-16-2011, 06:46 PM
This what they be sayin

WFAN was saying today that this Shapiro guy used to get 40,000$ suites for free for UM bball games.

My first thought was "UM bball has 40k suites?"

But that's what they were saying is in the report. Maybe it included all the comp'd booze and hookers.

the Talking Can
08-16-2011, 06:47 PM
wow...the detail is incredible

Jerm
08-16-2011, 06:50 PM
Haith has to go if even a shred of this true...right?

If he does, Alden's dumb fucking ass better be following him out the door.

the Talking Can
08-16-2011, 06:52 PM
he was buying whole hotel floors to cram full of prostitutes for players


dude is like 4 feet tall, probably stood in a corner and jerked off....weirdo

the Talking Can
08-16-2011, 07:45 PM
Nevin Shapiro’s cell phone providers condensed his calling records from 2002 to 2008 and deleted the booster’s text messaging records prior to 2009. Despite a significant portion of his records being expunged, Yahoo! Sports was able to identify 85 calls or texts between Shapiro and Frank Haith from 2005 to March 2010.


he gone

http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=AnbOoCjpJcU4iQFpUlunCN5PMuB_?slug=ys-frank_haith_allegations

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 07:49 PM
Alden should be shown the door as well.

Al Bundy
08-16-2011, 07:50 PM
Shapiro is going to make a shitload of cash on the book.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2011, 07:50 PM
he gone

http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=AnbOoCjpJcU4iQFpUlunCN5PMuB_?slug=ys-frank_haith_allegations

No doubt he is....

Alden next?

Insane

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 07:52 PM
Sounds like there will be competition as Cam Newtons bag man who transferred the 180k will be exposed.

OnTheWarpath58
08-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Yahoo! Sports sought comment through the University of Missouri sports information department. “Those things that are coming out with football didn’t have anything to do with Frank’s basketball program,” Missouri spokesman Dave Reiter said. “I would say you would probably need to talk to the University of Miami if something happened on his watch. We had a chance to talk to Coach Haith and he’s had no involvement with this Mr. Shapiro guy. There’s nothing.

If there is nothing, where did the pictures of him with Shapiro and the 85 calls/texts come from?

Sure-Oz
08-16-2011, 07:56 PM
If there is nothing, where did the pictures of him with Shapiro and the 85 calls/texts come from?

Photoshop /alden

kysirsoze
08-16-2011, 08:02 PM
This what they be sayin

There are multiple pictures of Haith with Shapiro at different athletic department events. They can't say there was no connection at all.

Reaper16
08-16-2011, 08:07 PM
God fuck.

DMAC
08-16-2011, 08:09 PM
This what they be sayin

In other words, "HIDE DEM BITCHES!!!".

Sure-Oz
08-16-2011, 08:16 PM
God ****.

God ****.

God ****.

God ****.

This x a million

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 08:43 PM
Arthur Brown is on the list of football players involved.

Al Bundy
08-16-2011, 08:47 PM
I think most teams in the big conferences will have at least one player/coach on that list the way he is running his mouth. Like I said earlier he will make a pile of money on the book.

Trevo_410
08-16-2011, 08:47 PM
Arthur Brown is on the list of football players involved.

Arthur
http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=AuomH6mTmaQaDws8KC.jQ_ZPMuB_?slug=ys-arthur_brown_allegations

Bryce
http://sports.yahoo.com/investigations/news;_ylt=AkSDmT_0T.5OSrzCZmi.7jpPMuB_?slug=ys-bryce_brown_allegations

Rams Fan
08-16-2011, 08:55 PM
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c156/cubluejay/Haithers.gif

4th and Long
08-16-2011, 08:55 PM
This article is a nuclear bomb and Miami is Hiroshima.
Posted via Mobile Device

Spott
08-16-2011, 09:00 PM
I wonder if they'll make Miama abandon all their NIT appearances.

Rams Fan
08-16-2011, 09:04 PM
Fuller express for interim HC and possibly beyond that. Leggo.

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:07 PM
Fuck me naked.

This was a trainwreck of a hire when it was made; it's not getting any better.

There are no other options available and if we can Haith, we lose the recruiting class he brought in (a damn good one). That said, I don't see how we have a choice - this school can absolutely not end up associated with this guy. I don't want the NCAA sniffing around town. Even if he doesn't burn us, the association alone is enough to do significant damage.

Jesus Christ, Alden - could you have fucked this up any worse?

Rams Fan
08-16-2011, 09:08 PM
**** me naked.

This was a trainwreck of a hire when it was made; it's not getting any better.

There are no other options available and if we can Haith, we lose the recruiting class he brought in (a damn good one). That said, I don't see how we have a choice - this school can absolutely not end up associated with this guy. I don't want the NCAA sniffing around town. Even if he doesn't burn us, the association alone is enough to do significant damage.

Jesus Christ, Alden - could you have ****ed this up any worse?

Tim Fuller, baby!

For the short term, at least. Hopefully long term.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2011, 09:12 PM
I'd think Fuller as HC could keep the class, right?

Trevo_410
08-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Tim Fuller, baby!

For the short term, at least. Hopefully long term.

great recruiter... but he said it himself when he signed on with haith, that he could not be a head coach.

Rams Fan
08-16-2011, 09:14 PM
I'd think Fuller as HC could keep the class, right?

I would think so. He recruited for Pitino, right?

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:16 PM
great recruiter... but he said it himself when he signed on with haith, that he could not be a head coach.

Tough shit, skip.

We need our recruiting class and we'll find you a crusty old bastard to manage the game. Next year, you can have your backup chair back if you want it.

Haith cannot stay, he absolutely cannot stay. There's way too much at stake given the instability of the current conference structure to be seen as soft on folks that blow off the NCAA.

They have to fire him.

Rams Fan
08-16-2011, 09:20 PM
Nestor could be interim HC for a season, but I think he's too old to be an interim HC. He's 65 but does have HC experience.

Don't know much about Chew.

So I think if Haith was fired and they wanted an interim HC from the staff, it would be either Nestor or Fuller, with Nestor probably having the advantage since he has HC experience.

Rams Fan
08-16-2011, 09:21 PM
great recruiter... but he said it himself when he signed on with haith, that he could not be a head coach.

If Haith was fired, there's no one out there. Him and Nestor would be the best short term options, with Fuller possibly being the best long term option.

Sure-Oz
08-16-2011, 09:24 PM
FakeFrankHaith Fake Frank Haith
by shizzyrocks
Jeez people, you can't trust the internet! Some will believe ANYTHING they read in an 11-month investigative and fully corroborative story..

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:25 PM
If Haith was fired, there's no one out there. Him and Nestor would be the best short term options, with Fuller possibly being the best long term option.

So let Fuller learn on the job with Nestor providing the training.

They're playing with fire for a seriously mediocre coach.

If you're trying to figure out a way to keep Bill Self or Mike Krszasdljksi - fine; I get it.

If you're putting the reputation of your entire athletic department (and to a degree, your entire university) at risk to protect Frank fucking Haith - there's a serious problem there.

There are no alternatives here - burn the asshole and move along. Figure out what to do about the coaching staff later.

Param
08-16-2011, 09:26 PM
I didn't know Mizzou grabbed our crappy basketball coach.

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:29 PM
I didn't know Mizzou grabbed our crappy basketball coach.

Then bow out because you're clearly an ignorant fuckstain.

But then again, we knew that already.

Rams Fan
08-16-2011, 09:29 PM
So let Fuller learn on the job with Nestor providing the training.

They're playing with fire for a seriously mediocre coach.

If you're trying to figure out a way to keep Bill Self or Mike Krszasdljksi - fine; I get it.

If you're putting the reputation of your entire athletic department (and to a degree, your entire university) at risk to protect Frank ****ing Haith - there's a serious problem there.

There are no alternatives here - burn the asshole and move along. Figure out what to do about the coaching staff later.

I pretty much agree with you, but there's no point in firing Haith yet unless it turns out he was involved big time.

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:30 PM
Hey - does anyone know what Dave Bliss is up to these days? I'll be he's available.

Larry Eustachy?

Home run fucking hires right there, Alden. Home run hires, cocksmoke.

How 'bout you fly a private plane into Tony LaRussa's hotel room and do us all a really big favor.

Bambi
08-16-2011, 09:30 PM
How do you not find this stuff out during the hiring process?

Brock
08-16-2011, 09:30 PM
I pretty much agree with you, but there's no point in firing Haith yet unless it turns out he was involved big time.

LMAO wut?

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:31 PM
I pretty much agree with you, but there's no point in firing Haith yet unless it turns out he was involved big time.

Perception is reality.

If even the allegations that have already been made are true (and the corroborating evidence is pretty damning), that's enough to show him the door.

This is big time college athletics and Frank Haith is a shitty coach as it is. You absolutely, unquestionably, do NOT risk the reputation of your program for a guy like Frank goddamn Haith.

He needs to go.

Param
08-16-2011, 09:32 PM
Then bow out because you're clearly an ignorant fuckstain.

But then again, we knew that already.

Ignorant? You grabbed our trash. Thanks Mizzou.

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:32 PM
How do you not find this stuff out during the hiring process?

Must've been handled by Lew Perkins.

Seriously - die in a fire and get the fuck out of the thread. The moral high ground here resides somewhere in sweet Lou's basement or trapped between one of Jabba Mangino's chins.

Rams Fan
08-16-2011, 09:33 PM
LMAO wut?

That was probably a poor choice of words...

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:33 PM
Ignorant? You grabbed our trash. Thanks Mizzou.

And you're so on top of things that you managed to miss this bit of news for 1/2 a year.

Seriously - you have nothing to add here - join dickedson on the funeral pyre.

Bambi
08-16-2011, 09:34 PM
Must've been handled by Lew Perkins.

Seriously - die in a fire and get the **** out of the thread. The moral high ground here resides somewhere in sweet Lou's basement or trapped between one of Jabba Mangino's chins.

Lew Perkins?

Param
08-16-2011, 09:36 PM
And you're so on top of things that you managed to miss this bit of news for 1/2 a year.

Seriously - you have nothing to add here - join dickedson on the funeral pyre.

Yes, I'm not a big nut job college basketball fan. But, one thing I did know. Your coach sucks. Enjoy your new coach.

Trevo_410
08-16-2011, 09:37 PM
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6159/stripclub.jpg

LMAO

The Bad Guy
08-16-2011, 09:37 PM
What really pisses me off about this stuff is that the kids who go there now are going to suffer because of the gifts past athletes received.

It doesn't make any sense.

The Bad Guy
08-16-2011, 09:38 PM
Perception is reality.

If even the allegations that have already been made are true (and the corroborating evidence is pretty damning), that's enough to show him the door.

This is big time college athletics and Frank Haith is a shitty coach as it is. You absolutely, unquestionably, do NOT risk the reputation of your program for a guy like Frank goddamn Haith.

He needs to go.

Absolutely.

If there is blood on his hands, fire him immediately.

ChiefsCountry
08-16-2011, 09:41 PM
What really pisses me off about this stuff is that the kids who go there now are going to suffer because of the gifts past athletes received.

It doesn't make any sense.

Like SMU, see how long its took to rebuilt that program.

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 09:43 PM
Lew Perkins?

Tell me you recognize what I was doing there.

For the love of all things holy, tell me you're not this thick.

Jesus, it really is like kicking a retarded kid.

The Bad Guy
08-16-2011, 09:43 PM
Like SMU, see how long its took to rebuilt that program.

And it's still not totally rebuilt.

The punishments in the NCAA are so fucking stupid.

KcMizzou
08-16-2011, 09:52 PM
JFC, seriously? I don't even know what to say.

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 09:55 PM
Do ya'll think Miami will get the death penalty?

LiveSteam
08-16-2011, 09:58 PM
Do ya'll think Miami will get the death penalty?

Crack & riots

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 10:02 PM
JFC, seriously? I don't even know what to say.

I'm not thinking there are many Hallmark cards that encapsulate my thoughts at the moment.

And if any of them did, they'd have one of those little money compartments...only it would be designed to hold anthrax.

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 10:06 PM
They should cancel the fucking Miami/OSU game too. What an embarrassment.

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 10:08 PM
They should cancel the fucking Miami/OSU game too. What an embarrassment.

Wow - that's a hell of a matchup right there.

What do you even call that mess?

Bambi
08-16-2011, 10:13 PM
Tell me you recognize what I was doing there.

For the love of all things holy, tell me you're not this thick.

Jesus, it really is like kicking a retarded kid.

I think you're overreacting.

Bambi
08-16-2011, 10:20 PM
Do ya'll think Miami will get the death penalty?

Well if they do then so will Nebraska since that's Bernard Thomas on Shapiro's yacht.

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313230573.jpg

blaise
08-16-2011, 10:20 PM
Yahoo sports is blowing ESPN away with stories like this.

DJ's left nut
08-16-2011, 10:24 PM
Yahoo sports is blowing ESPN away with stories like this.

If Foxsports or the new NBC sports network would form a partnership on their TV deal with Yahoo Sports, ESPN would be obsolete within 5 years. Yahoo's investigative journalism has been absolutely top notch. Unfortunately, it appears that ESPN has figured out that they can just wait for stories to break and piggy-back for programming.

The fact that ESPN continues to employ Berman and has allowed flagship shows like Sportscenter to become caricatures shows just how content they are with resting on their laurels, leaning on their status as the 'worldwide leader', then stealing from other media outlets and making it their lead story for a few days.

They're absolutely ripe to get knocked off if a couple of the up and comers would join forces and finish them off.

Bambi
08-16-2011, 10:25 PM
Yahoo sports is blowing ESPN away with stories like this.

I know it's like real journalism on the internet.

So different from the twitter driven idiots that I don't pay attention to anymore.

griZZly64
08-16-2011, 10:26 PM
Yeah I read this earlier. What a pussy. He gets caught for something that didn't even involve college ball and he rats everybody else out.. Pitiful. I hope his O-ring is blown out all ready.

Chocolate Hog
08-16-2011, 10:31 PM
Well if they do then so will Nebraska since that's Bernard Thomas on Shapiro's yacht.

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313230573.jpg

Dumbass.

Saulbadguy
08-16-2011, 10:42 PM
Arthur and Bryce Brown might have to sit out against....Miami.

Not like it will matter.

Coach
08-17-2011, 12:35 AM
Do ya'll think Miami will get the death penalty?

In my opinion, yes. This is not the first time Miami has issues. The 1980s: Luther Campbell's "pay for play" scheme. In 1995, the NCAA announced that Miami would be subject to severe sanctions for numerous infractions within the athletic department. Among the sanctions was a one-year ban from postseason participation and a scholarship reduction of 31 over a three year period beginning in 1996.

What happened was in 1994, Tony Russell, a former UM academic advisor, pleaded guilty to helping more than 80 student athletes, 57 of whom were football players, falsify Pell Grant applications in exchange for kickbacks from the players themselves. The scandal dated all the way back to 1989 and secured more than $220,000 in federal grant money. Federal officials later said that Russell had engineered "perhaps the largest centralized fraud ... ever committed" in the history of the Pell Grant program

But from the looks of what's going on right now, those previous two is minor, compared to what is going on right now. I am in favor of bringing the death penalty towards Miami, regardless of how long it may take them to recover.

|Zach|
08-17-2011, 12:44 AM
Yahoo sports is blowing ESPN away with stories like this.

ESPN boned themselves on this.

Their best guy tuned into U of M is Bruce Feldman.

|Zach|
08-17-2011, 12:46 AM
They should cancel the ****ing Miami/OSU game too. What an embarrassment.

Bwahahaha. Didnt even think about that.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-17-2011, 12:52 AM
You absolutely have to fire Frank Haith for this, and Mike Alden for such a pathetic lack of due diligence.

Ultra Peanut
08-17-2011, 01:43 AM
lollllll, awesome.

Bill Brasky
08-17-2011, 02:09 AM
I'm just trying to figure out who in the world is going to replace frank haith this close to the season.

BryanBusby
08-17-2011, 02:20 AM
Wow - that's a hell of a matchup right there.

What do you even call that mess?

The Ineligibowl

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 05:27 AM
I know it's like real journalism on the internet.

So different from the twitter driven idiots that I don't pay attention to anymore.

Espn is embarrassing. They've made every Ohio state story front page news. Even tressels salary. But this falls under the radar.

Espn needs to be less transparent about teams they love and hate. I lost all respect for them when they pulled a story because it castes or lebron in a bad light.

Al Bundy
08-17-2011, 05:55 AM
Sounds like the scUM booster knew he was doing everything illegal and was prepared to go down.

blaise
08-17-2011, 05:56 AM
Espn is embarrassing. They've made every Ohio state story front page news. Even tressels salary. But this falls under the radar.

Espn needs to be less transparent about teams they love and hate. I lost all respect for them when they pulled a story because it castes or lebron in a bad light.

I think they just try and wait so they can get around crediting other media. They had to post the Miami story, and they had to credit yahoo, but they didn't have anything about Haith last night (I don't think).
What they do a lot of the time is wait until one of their guys gets some "new" information and then they'll say, "ESPN's Andy Katz confirms reports that......." or "According to ESPN's Andy Katz.." and they'll use some new quote from a player or coach. Then, if they have to, they'll bury the initial source way down in their article.
They do it all the time in football. Always, "ESPN's Chris Mortensen confirms reports that..." on a story Jay Glazer or someone else broke.

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 06:01 AM
I think they just try and wait so they can get around crediting other media. They had to post the Miami story, and they had to credit yahoo, but they didn't have anything about Haith last night (I don't think).
What they do a lot of the time is wait until one of their guys gets some "new" information and then they'll say, "ESPN's Andy Katz confirms reports that......." or "According to ESPN's Andy Katz.." and they'll use some new quote from a player or coach. Then, if they have to, they'll bury the initial source way down in their article.
They do it all the time in football. Always, "ESPN's Chris Mortensen confirms reports that..." on a story Jay Glazer or someone else broke.

Since the Oregon story's hit, I don't think it's ever once made even the top link on the headline page. And the LeBron story was most definitely posted on ESPN and then mysteriously pulled a half-day later. ARod takes steroids and there's front page coverage every single day. Ortiz is accused of steroids, and ESPN barely mentions it.

ESPN is the FoxNews of journalism. They pick who they like. But if they don't like you, you become the villain.

blaise
08-17-2011, 06:04 AM
Since the Oregon story's hit, I don't think it's ever once made even the top link on the headline page. And the LeBron story was most definitely posted on ESPN and then mysteriously pulled a half-day later. ARod takes steroids and there's front page coverage every single day. Ortiz is accused of steroids, and ESPN barely mentions it.

ESPN is the FoxNews of journalism. They pick who they like. But if they don't like you, you become the villain.

I think they're more of the People magazine of journalism.

WilliamTheIrish
08-17-2011, 06:13 AM
Back to the subject at hand:

Haith was hired more out of desperation due to the Painter situation.

By hook or by crook, secure the recruiting class to the best of your ability.

Interim coach X.

Fire Haith.

Alden? What can I say? AD's in these two states seem to the dumbest in all of college sports.

Look for new hire in spring of '12.

Saulbadguy
08-17-2011, 06:43 AM
Espn is embarrassing. They've made every Ohio state story front page news. Even tressels salary. But this falls under the radar.

Espn needs to be less transparent about teams they love and hate. I lost all respect for them when they pulled a story because it castes or lebron in a bad light.

I'm not sure about this falling under the radar. I listened to ESPN Radio last night and this morning, and this is nearly all they've talked about.

the Talking Can
08-17-2011, 06:52 AM
Espn is embarrassing. They've made every Ohio state story front page news. Even tressels salary. But this falls under the radar.

Espn needs to be less transparent about teams they love and hate. I lost all respect for them when they pulled a story because it castes or lebron in a bad light.

this has top news at espn all day....top mention on every bump, top subject on Mike and Mike...


Ohio St. fans are idiots

dirk digler
08-17-2011, 07:10 AM
You absolutely have to fire Frank Haith for this, and Mike Alden for such a pathetic lack of due diligence.

Agree. What an embarrassment.

kepp
08-17-2011, 07:20 AM
Let me get this straight. Haith had access to $900 million and still couldn't get a winning record?

Bambi
08-17-2011, 07:29 AM
Let me get this straight. Haith had access to $900 million and still couldn't get a winning record?

Strippers are expensive.

kepp
08-17-2011, 07:34 AM
Strippers are expensive.

Technically, most of that money probably went back into UM's pockets in the form of tuition for those poor girls.

eazyb81
08-17-2011, 07:52 AM
I'm just trying to figure out who in the world is going to replace frank haith this close to the season.

New assistant Tim Fuller, then spend all season carefully analyzing and interviewing potential new coaches rather than rushing to hire a new permanent one now.

OnTheWarpath58
08-17-2011, 12:29 PM
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/tiger-tracker/article_3338a562-c8eb-11e0-89bf-001a4bcf6878.html

While much remains to be understood and determined about issues surrounding Mizzou basketball coach Frank Haith's relationship with suddenly infamous Miami booster Nevin Shapiro when Haith was coaching the Hurricanes, Mizzou also must assess what to do with Haith.

It can take on faith that Haith was not entwined inappropriately with Shapiro, who said Haith was aware of a $10,000 payment to a recruit in an exhaustive Yahoo! Sports report released Tuesday, and not act.

It could wait to take action based on what is determined by NCAA investigators, with whom Haith says he will cooperate in hopes of prompt resolution.

It could consider putting Haith on administrative leave until the NCAA resolves the matter.

It also apparently could consider firing Haith, according to the terms of his contract signed in the spring.

Under the category "Termination For Cause," the contract stipulates Mizzou "shall have the right to terminate the Contract for Employment" for "any behavior of the employee that brings him into public disrepute, contempt, scandal or ridicule or any behavior that is unfavorable to the reputation or moral or ethical standards of the University."

Specifically, the contract accounts for rules violations that "in the sole judgment of the University, reflect adversely" on it, including "any violation which occurred during prior employment of the Employee at another NCAA member institution."

Among other questions facing Mizzou now:

Considering the NCAA and Miami each have known about allegations surrounding the program for more than a year, why was MU evidently unaware of the looming allegations? Did the NCAA , Miami or, in fact, Haith not inform MU of information it should have?

And how will Mizzou's considerable recruiting needs suffer from a shadow that will hover over the program until the matter is reconciled?

MU declined comment as of Wednesday morning.

DJ's left nut
08-17-2011, 12:32 PM
It's Mizzou.

They're gutless to their core.

They won't do a damn thing.

And the negative recruiters will have a MFing field day.

Saulbadguy
08-17-2011, 12:35 PM
It's Mizzou.

They're gutless to their core.

They won't do a damn thing.

And the negative recruiters will have a MFing field day.

Meh.

If he puts a winning product on the court, no one will remember...or give a shit. IMO.

Messier
08-17-2011, 01:37 PM
Meh.

If he puts a winning product on the court, no one will remember...or give a shit. IMO.


That's not necessarily true.

blaise
08-17-2011, 01:44 PM
Meh.

If he puts a winning product on the court, no one will remember...or give a shit. IMO.

I bet whatever he puts on the court can be replaced fairly easily by someone else.

Extra Point
08-17-2011, 01:45 PM
They oughta hire Sunvold. The one with hair.

beer bacon
08-17-2011, 02:02 PM
Shouldn't the Brown brothers be benched? It is pretty obvious they will be declared ineligible. If K-State plays them, and they are subsequently found ineligible, won't K-State have to forfeit all those games?

Saulbadguy
08-17-2011, 02:03 PM
Shouldn't the Brown brothers be benched? It is pretty obvious they will be declared ineligible. If K-State plays them, and they are subsequently found ineligible, won't K-State have to forfeit all those games?

Yep - I imagine they will sit out at least a game or 3.

It's ironic they will both most likely have to sit vs Miami.

SuperChief
08-17-2011, 03:27 PM
This is nuts. THAT'S why investigative reporting is so important and absolutely necessary. It's a shame that papers are getting rid of these departments because they're "too expensive."

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 03:43 PM
this has top news at espn all day....top mention on every bump, top subject on Mike and Mike...


Ohio St. fans are idiots

I'm sorry, but this story isn't getting even CLOSE to the same amount of attention the Ohio State story got when "tattoogate" first broke. Especially when you factor in that these allegations are a million times more egregious than OSU. The story isn't even the feature headline. They have Notre Dame as the picture story, for crying out loud. Since the Ohio State story broke, they have had one featured headline almost every week, especially in the past 1-2 months. They have two headlines right now, for crying out loud. They even made Tressel's salary front page news. I have no problem with the attention OSU is getting, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that ESPN is peppering meaningless stories about OSU every single week and sensationalizing their violations, when there are 3 schools that are getting serious scrutiny too.

The problem is, it's only ESPN that's doing this. And it's not just OSU vs. the world. It's their over-defensiveness of LeBron James. It's the enormous amount of attention they paid to ARod while Papi got off easy doing the same shit. ESPN has become FoxNews or MSNBC. Rather than report sports news, they are picking heroes and villains to boost ratings. And that's ****ing shady, for a site that tries to be an unbiased source for sports news.

WilliamTheIrish
08-17-2011, 03:44 PM
Shouldn't the Brown brothers be benched? It is pretty obvious they will be declared ineligible. If K-State plays them, and they are subsequently found ineligible, won't K-State have to forfeit all those games?

Eh, the Brown's might get a 1 game suspension. All they have to do is cooperate fully when interviewed.

Saulbadguy
08-17-2011, 03:44 PM
I'm sorry, but this story isn't getting even CLOSE to the same amount of attention the Ohio State story got when "tattoogate" first broke. Especially when you factor in that these allegations are a million times more egregious than OSU. The story isn't even the feature headline. They have Notre Dame as the picture story, for crying out loud. Since the Ohio State story broke, they have had one featured headline almost every week, especially in the past 1-2 months. They have two headlines right now, for crying out loud. They even made Tressel's salary front page news.

The problem is, it's only ESPN that's doing this. And it's not just OSU vs. the world. It's their over-defensiveness of LeBron James. It's the enormous amount of attention they paid to ARod while Papi got off easy doing the same shit. ESPN has become FoxNews or MSNBC. Rather than report sports news, they are picking heroes and villains to boost ratings. And that's fucking shady, for a site that tries to be an unbiased source for sports news.

You are full of shit.

WilliamTheIrish
08-17-2011, 03:48 PM
Jesus, you tOSU fans are amazing.

DJ's left nut
08-17-2011, 03:51 PM
Every single time there's a college football story, chiefzilla starts bitching about how persecuted the Buckeyes were.

Give it a rest already. Clearly nothing more than an asshurt Buckeye fan (as though there's any other kind).

MOhillbilly
08-17-2011, 03:53 PM
Just pay the fuckin kids already. The NCAA is a bunch of greedy fucks.

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 03:55 PM
Jesus, you tOSU fans are amazing.

I'm barely a fan of the team. I agree wholeheartedly with the suspensions and think they should have been worse.

But the only reason you don't see what's going on is because you, like most people, don't like OSU. And you enjoy reading articles that trash on OSU. I don't blame you--I enjoy reading articles trashing on Duke. ESPN is capitalizing on people's hatred of OSU, the same way they capitalized on the hatred of ARod, and the same way they defend to the death the reputation of "good guys" like Papi and LeBron.

It's FoxNews/MSNBC coverage.

DJ's left nut
08-17-2011, 04:03 PM
Just pay the fuckin kids already. The NCAA is a bunch of greedy fucks.

This is just not doable.

Virtually all of these schools are major state-subsidized land-grant institutions. What are you going to pay them with, tax dollars?

And if you say it has to be booster or ticket-fueled, prepare to see only a handful of schools win ever again. And if the athletes are paid, the NCAA can't govern anymore so any scholarship limitations are by the wayside as the NCAA doesn't have the jurisdiction to enforce them (not 'amateur' athletics).

Every single time someone says "just pay the kids", they completely ignore the fact that it's completely impracticable. It would destroy college sports as we know it and would create a bureaucratic apparatus so large that it would be nearly impossible to oversee.

Chocolate Hog
08-17-2011, 04:05 PM
Chiefzilla is a Tosu guy? Coulda sworn he was a KU fan.

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 04:07 PM
Every single time there's a college football story, chiefzilla starts bitching about how persecuted the Buckeyes were.

Give it a rest already. Clearly nothing more than an asshurt Buckeye fan (as though there's any other kind).

I have never defended anything OSU has done. I think they deserve what they got. But long before the violations, I've also pointed out the ridiculous NCAA system that incentivizes college programs to cheat.

But it's ridiculous for ANYONE to suggest that ESPN isn't sensationalizing OSU violations for ratings. Because the more they trash on OSU, the more their ratings go up. Allegations against Oregon are a shitload more egregious. These allegations against Miami are probably the most egregious in the history of college football.

WilliamTheIrish
08-17-2011, 04:12 PM
I'm barely a fan of the team. I agree wholeheartedly with the suspensions and think they should have been worse.

But the only reason you don't see what's going on is because you, like most people, don't like OSU. And you enjoy reading articles that trash on OSU. I don't blame you--I enjoy reading articles trashing on Duke. ESPN is capitalizing on people's hatred of OSU, the same way they capitalized on the hatred of ARod, and the same way they defend to the death the reputation of "good guys" like Papi and LeBron.

It's FoxNews/MSNBC coverage.

I, like most people, don't care about tOSU. Nor do I care about their large number of barely non fans of the team who feel they've been wronged by ESPN. So save the calories you're spending plinking the keys to tell me how I feel about the poor, tortured, persecuted, sweater vest Christmas gift giving, tOSU fans.

Jesus, go listen to a Nickelback album, it'll settle your emosoul.

booger
08-17-2011, 04:21 PM
Country strong was just there to teach them how to cook Gator and raccoon meat

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 04:49 PM
I, like most people, don't care about tOSU. Nor do I care about their large number of barely non fans of the team who feel they've been wronged by ESPN. So save the calories you're spending plinking the keys to tell me how I feel about the poor, tortured, persecuted, sweater vest Christmas gift giving, tOSU fans.

Jesus, go listen to a Nickelback album, it'll settle your emosoul.

It doesn't change the argument that ESPN picks heroes and villains. Throw OSU aside. I know lots of people here hate LeBron. Is anyone going to argue against the idea that ESPN has gone through extraordinary efforts to paint him as a good guy?

Like I said, I don't care about the persecution. I just think ESPN is starting to become the FoxNews of sports reporting.

CoMoChief
08-17-2011, 05:04 PM
Alden needs to be canned.

From the whole Quin/Ricky Clemons/Gary Link saga to getting owned by their arch rivals for a Orange Bowl bid, then the Mu to Big 10 rumors that eventually backfired in their faces and what ultimately will lea to the end of the Big12 conference and whatever shot MU has at playing a a major bowl game in the near future esp with some of the recruits they're starting to get in fball (esp if they pick up DGB). The failing attempt to hire Matt Painter, leading to a desperation and incompetent hire in Frank Haith, a marginal at best coach with a shitty record. So the feds were investigating Miami back in Aug-Sept 2010 when all of the ponzi scheme shit came afloat with that booster Shapiro and you're telling me that Alden, after hiring Haith in the spring of 2011, had known nothing about this or what could possibly come out of it? I don't buy that for one second... This wasn't something small.....this was a HUGE scandal. It's Alden's job to protect the integrity of the Ath dept at MU. Either he was WAYYY too incompetent when making this hire or he just plain didn't care about what was going on behind the curtain, in which either way he needs to be fired. How many lives does this AD have lol?

crispystl420
08-17-2011, 05:21 PM
Alden needs to be canned.

From the whole Quin/Ricky Clemons/Gary Link saga to getting owned by their arch rivals for a Orange Bowl bid, then the Mu to Big 10 rumors that eventually backfired in their faces and what ultimately will lea to the end of the Big12 conference and whatever shot MU has at playing a a major bowl game in the near future esp with some of the recruits they're starting to get in fball (esp if they pick up DGB). The failing attempt to hire Matt Painter, leading to a desperation and incompetent hire in Frank Haith, a marginal at best coach with a shitty record. So the feds were investigating Miami back in Aug-Sept 2010 when all of the ponzi scheme shit came afloat with that booster Shapiro and you're telling me that Alden, after hiring Haith in the spring of 2011, had known nothing about this or what could possibly come out of it? I don't buy that for one second... This wasn't something small.....this was a HUGE scandal. It's Alden's job to protect the integrity of the Ath dept at MU. Either he was WAYYY too incompetent when making this hire or he just plain didn't care about what was going on behind the curtain, in which either way he needs to be fired. How many lives does this AD have lol?

Well said

the Talking Can
08-17-2011, 05:28 PM
I'm sorry, but this story isn't getting even CLOSE to the same amount of attention the Ohio State story got when "tattoogate" first broke. Especially when you factor in that these allegations are a million times more egregious than OSU. The story isn't even the feature headline. They have Notre Dame as the picture story, for crying out loud. Since the Ohio State story broke, they have had one featured headline almost every week, especially in the past 1-2 months. They have two headlines right now, for crying out loud. They even made Tressel's salary front page news. I have no problem with the attention OSU is getting, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that ESPN is peppering meaningless stories about OSU every single week and sensationalizing their violations, when there are 3 schools that are getting serious scrutiny too.

The problem is, it's only ESPN that's doing this. And it's not just OSU vs. the world. It's their over-defensiveness of LeBron James. It's the enormous amount of attention they paid to ARod while Papi got off easy doing the same shit. ESPN has become FoxNews or MSNBC. Rather than report sports news, they are picking heroes and villains to boost ratings. And that's ****ing shady, for a site that tries to be an unbiased source for sports news.


no, it's stupid ohio state fans pretending ESPN is the reason their coach is a lying d-bag....


this story has been the top news on every sports outlet, tv and radio, nationwide....

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 05:39 PM
no, it's stupid ohio state fans pretending ESPN is the reason their coach is a lying d-bag....


this story has been the top news on every sports outlet, tv and radio, nationwide....

I think Ohio State fans, as most fans would, are reacting pretty stupidly to the whole thing. The players did wrong, Tressel did wrong, it's clear as day that they fucked up. They deserve to be punished and they deserve to be drilled for it. They are a big enough program that it should be front-page news.

But that doesn't excuse ESPN treating the whole thing like Caylee Anthony where they front-page every interview with any person who has dirt on OSU, even if the dirt isn't reliable or isn't that newsworthy. I'm finding CNNSI to be a hell of a lot better.

the Talking Can
08-17-2011, 05:41 PM
I think Ohio State fans, as most fans would, are reacting pretty stupidly to the whole thing. The players did wrong, Tressel did wrong, it's clear as day that they ****ed up. They deserve to be punished and they deserve to be drilled for it. They are a big enough program that it should be front-page news.

But that doesn't excuse ESPN treating the whole thing like Caylee Anthony where they front-page every interview with any person who has dirt on OSU, even if the dirt isn't reliable or isn't that newsworthy. I'm finding CNNSI to be a hell of a lot better.

yeah, osu butt hurt....you're the only school who has ever been mentioned by espn


except for every other school caught breaking rules....

hilarious

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 06:14 PM
yeah, osu butt hurt....you're the only school who has ever been mentioned by espn


except for every other school caught breaking rules....

hilarious

I don't know how it's butthurt, given that I think OSU deserves what they're getting.

But dont' give me this horse shit that OSU has been treated like any other team. Oregon has recruiting violations that may have given the team an unfair competitive advantage for a team in the national championship. Never hear a peep. Auburn had infractions amounting to potentially $180,000 toward a Heisman candidate that won the national championship for them. Don't remember journalists peppering every single DMV and booster in the state with questions. In Miami, we're talking about a booster who gave millions of dollars of benefits to players. We have yet to see the airtime Miami gets, but to match up to OSU's, they'll have to get a ton of airtime consistently... and for 8 straight months. I highly doubt that happens. And we're talking about infractions that are going to make OSU's look like pre-school issues.

blaise
08-17-2011, 06:40 PM
Dude, this story is headline national news, not just sports sections. There's no way the Ohio State tattoo story got, or will get anywhere near what this will. It's not even close. This story dominated the news today, all sports programs and even leaked into regular news programming.

kstater
08-17-2011, 07:03 PM
Front page of ESPN.com, clearly not caring about this story.


http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/8789/unledadu.png

the Talking Can
08-17-2011, 07:04 PM
I don't know how it's butthurt, given that I think OSU deserves what they're getting.

But dont' give me this horse shit that OSU has been treated like any other team. Oregon has recruiting violations that may have given the team an unfair competitive advantage for a team in the national championship. Never hear a peep. Auburn had infractions amounting to potentially $180,000 toward a Heisman candidate that won the national championship for them. Don't remember journalists peppering every single DMV and booster in the state with questions. In Miami, we're talking about a booster who gave millions of dollars of benefits to players. We have yet to see the airtime Miami gets, but to match up to OSU's, they'll have to get a ton of airtime consistently... and for 8 straight months. I highly doubt that happens. And we're talking about infractions that are going to make OSU's look like pre-school issues.


jesus, you're a walking parody of osu fans.....embarrassing

Bambi
08-17-2011, 07:08 PM
I read the story. It sounds more like this was just some little rich white boy who was trying to buy friends more than an organized effort by school officials.

Either way it looks like everyone had a hell of a time.

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 08:36 PM
Front page of ESPN.com, clearly not caring about this story.


http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/8789/unledadu.png

For one day.

We'll see if they're still posting at least one front page story per week 8 months afterward.

KChiefs1
08-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Haith in hot water, but Alden should not be
Gabe DeArmond posted on August 17, 2011 20:27

I want to be up front in telling you all that I’m not here to decide whether Frank Haith should lose his job or not.* It’s really not my place and I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision.* Instead, I’m going to use this space to defend the guy that does have to make that call.
*
I’ve seen a lot of debate over the last 24 hours about whether Haith should lose his job.* It’s fair debate.* It’s a question that absolutely has to be asked.* I’ve also seen a lot of debate about whether Mike Alden should lose his job over this.
*
I thought about it.* At first, I thought it was a fair question.* And, to be honest, my first reaction was that if Haith indeed has to be fired, Alden would have failed and failed miserably in two of his three hires in basketball.* All this after he didn’t exactly roll out the red carpet asking the man who built the program to stick around a few more years.
*
But since that initial knee-jerk reaction, both the Kansas City Star and the St. Louis Post-Dispatch have published stories stating that more than 20 people gave Missouri their stamp of approval on the Haith hiring in April.* That includes the NCAA, a representative of which told the Star he had no idea Haith was involved in the scandal at Miami until reading the Yahoo! Sports report by Charles Robinson (kudos to Robinson, by the way.* The article is Woodward and Bernstein type stuff).
*
So the NCAA didn’t know.* His colleagues didn’t know.* But Mike Alden should have known?* Don’t buy it.
*
It does, however, bring up what may be Alden’s fatal flaw.* I’ll get to that in a minute.
*
He’s an interesting case.* A polarizing figure to be sure.* Rarely do you see a man who has been responsible for so much good whom so many of his fans want gone.* He has overseen the most successful multi-year run at Mizzou in at least 40 years…and probably ever.* He hired the guy that won more games in a single season and went as far in the NCAA Tournament as any coach in Tiger hoops history.* He has—and I understand this means about as much as the fact that he convinced someone to pay for flavored coffee in the athletic department offices—worked wonders with many of Mizzou’s smaller sports.* But fans seem to point out his mistakes much more often.* And to be fair, there have been a few.
*
But in discussing Alden—both on the radio and on message boards, and also just with friends—I’ve come across a common thread in these episodes that Tiger fans so often bring up.* Alden seems to trust people a little too easily.* Let me explain on a case-by-case basis:
*
In 2007, Missouri beat Kansas.* They finished ahead of Kansas in the conference.* Alden felt like that should be enough.* He let his team’s performance do the talking.* Meanwhile, Lew Perkins (wink-wink, nod-nod, nah, he'd never do that, right?) convinced the Orange Bowl he’d bring a billion Kansas fans to South Beach.* The Jayhawks played in the Orange Bowl.* The Tigers went to Dallas.
*
Last year, Missouri batted its eyelashes at the Big Ten.* The Big Ten winked back.* Jim Delaney held Missouri’s hand and whispered sweet things to Alden (it’s kind of a disturbing analogy, but you get my point).* Many around Missouri were convinced they were going to the Big Ten.* They didn’t.* Nebraska did.* Perhaps it should have taught us all a lesson:* What they say doesn’t count.* It only counts when it’s on paper.
*
This spring, the lesson had to be learned again.* Mike Anderson was talking to Arkansas.* Most in the Natural State insisted he was taking the job.* Those of us close to Missouri did not.* In fact, we insisted on the opposite.* We did it because the people we trust were telling us that Anderson was staying.* They said that because that’s what he said.* And they trusted him.* You know the saying.* Fool me once, shame on you.* Fool me twice…
*
Now, has Alden been fooled again?* I don’t know.* I want to be clear I have no idea what really happened in Coral Gables or what Haith has told Alden behind closed doors.* But I know that when I read Charles Robinson’s article, it doesn’t appear to have a whole lot of holes.* I know that a Missouri spokesman told the reporters on the story that Haith had no involvement with Nevin Shapiro and I doubt he said it without asking first.* I know that the NCAA plans on talking to Haith.
*
So you have to entertain the fact that Haith perhaps wasn’t up front with the Mizzou administration.* You have to wonder if they asked him about Shapiro and he denied even knowing the man.* Until, of course, a story came out with pictures proving they knew each other.* And just in case Shapiro was really good at Photoshop, there were some phone records too.*
*
Making mistakes is one thing.* And we all know that the kind of mistake Haith is accused of making is the kind that costs coaches careers.* But other coaches can overcome those mistakes and survive.* Often times, it’s not the mistake that buries a man.* It’s the cover-up.
*
As for Alden?* Perhaps he was misled.* Perhaps he was flat lied to.* It does seem to be something that has happened a little too much for Tiger fans.* In the cutthroat business of college athletics, it appears being too trusting may be a problem.* But it’s not one that should cost Mike Alden his job.* There’s only one person in this story with Tiger ties who should be sweating his future in Columbia.*

I’ll give you a hint:

*

It isn’t Alden.

HonestChieffan
08-17-2011, 08:45 PM
Alden already has his cover stories? Damn guy is good.

mnchiefsguy
08-17-2011, 08:55 PM
Both Alden and Haith should be fired immediately.

KcMizzou
08-17-2011, 08:57 PM
Alden already has his cover stories? Damn guy is good.Not at all. I'm pretty sure he had no idea.

Alden's greatest fault has been that he trusts everybody and everything. He's been gullible... a rube. And Mizzou gets used.

ohiobronco2
08-17-2011, 08:59 PM
ESPN targets Ohio St. because of $. It's that simple. They are a polarizing school, if they put out a story OSU fans rush to defend their school and other fans rush to take some joy out of OSU misery. If you want the cycle to end, stop visiting that sh*t site of theirs. They are Pro SEC and Texas.

Brock
08-17-2011, 09:02 PM
I never realized OSU had such whiney fans.

ohiobronco2
08-17-2011, 09:07 PM
I never realized OSU had such whiney fans.

Spoiled too. That's what happens when you have overly high expectations.

LiveSteam
08-17-2011, 09:12 PM
Spoiled too. That's what happens when you have overly high expectations.

Who will be OSU starting Q/B when you bring it to Lincoln ?

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 09:14 PM
Who will be OSU starting Q/B when you bring it to Lincoln ?

Braxton Miller is going to be better than Pryor. But he's going to have a tough year in 2011.

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 09:16 PM
I never realized OSU had such whiney fans.

Meh. Polarizing. Can call fans whiney, but most fan bases would be when there are a lot of haters. We're not talking about "Oh, I kind of hate Mark Sanchez." We're talking about a whole country that hates OSU like we hate the Raiders.

And the media plays to that. Especially ESPN. I get that. I just find it comical when people pretend that that doesn't happen. I just think ESPN does it far more shamelessly than any other outlet.

ohiobronco2
08-17-2011, 09:16 PM
Who will be OSU starting Q/B when you bring it to Lincoln ?

Nobody here really has a clue. Everyone (fans) wants it to be Braxton Miller, but I would expect Joe Bauserman would get the nod initially. OSU will have a really strong rushing attack this year, but you know how great one dimensional teams are. I will state that OSU will have a D that rivals Nebraska, no matter who they lose year after year, they still produce. I'm happy to have Nebraska in the Big Ten and can't wait for this game.

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2011, 09:24 PM
As a Miami alumnus, my reaction is disgust, and just get this over with. Spare us the year long "investigation" and just lay down the punishment already.

I don't think the NCAA will give the Death Penalty because of how they saw it turn into a 20+ year punishment for SMU, rather than its original intention to be a 4-5 year punishment.

I think probably an enhanced version of what USC got... multiple year bowl ban, scholarship reductions and maybe a TV ban for a year or two.

KcMizzou
08-17-2011, 09:27 PM
I can't wait to see the 30 for 30 about this.

Chocolate Hog
08-17-2011, 09:27 PM
As a Miami alumnus, my reaction is disgust, and just get this over with. Spare us the year long "investigation" and just lay down the punishment already.

I don't think the NCAA will give the Death Penalty because of how they saw it turn into a 20+ year punishment for SMU, rather than its original intention to be a 4-5 year punishment.

I think probably an enhanced version of what USC got... multiple year bowl ban, scholarship reductions and maybe a TV ban for a year or two.

Haha you went to Miami?

LiveSteam
08-17-2011, 09:29 PM
Nobody here really has a clue. Everyone (fans) wants it to be Braxton Miller, but I would expect Joe Bauserman would get the nod initially. OSU will have a really strong rushing attack this year, but you know how great one dimensional teams are. I will state that OSU will have a D that rivals Nebraska, no matter who they lose year after year, they still produce. I'm happy to have Nebraska in the Big Ten and can't wait for this game.

Well tell your Defensive coaches to prepare for Tim Becks version of the inverted wish bone,I mean pistol,I mean diamond.

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2011, 09:29 PM
Haha you went to Miami?

Yes, graduated back in the early '90s.

LiveSteam
08-17-2011, 09:31 PM
Yes, graduated back in the early '90s.

Then I hate you :D

chiefzilla1501
08-17-2011, 09:41 PM
As a Miami alumnus, my reaction is disgust, and just get this over with. Spare us the year long "investigation" and just lay down the punishment already.

I don't think the NCAA will give the Death Penalty because of how they saw it turn into a 20+ year punishment for SMU, rather than its original intention to be a 4-5 year punishment.

I think probably an enhanced version of what USC got... multiple year bowl ban, scholarship reductions and maybe a TV ban for a year or two.

You can look at it with disgust. But the problem is a system that incentivizes this shit to happen. I'm ecstatic this is all happening. It finally forces the crooked NCAA to admit there's a problem. Sadly, like the steroid issue, it takes major scandals to force people to admit there's a problem no matter how big it stares you in the face.

Man, you talk to anybody who's played or coached for a competitive program. YOu would not believe the stories you'll hear about how these programs recruit.

KChiefs1
08-17-2011, 09:46 PM
I can't wait to see the 30 for 30 about this.

They'll have to put it on Cinemax.:)

KCChiefsFan88
08-17-2011, 10:07 PM
You can look at it with disgust. But the problem is a system that incentivizes this shit to happen. I'm ecstatic this is all happening. It finally forces the crooked NCAA to admit there's a problem. Sadly, like the steroid issue, it takes major scandals to force people to admit there's a problem no matter how big it stares you in the face.

Man, you talk to anybody who's played or coached for a competitive program. YOu would not believe the stories you'll hear about how these programs recruit.

Well if this offseason doesn't lead to major changes, nothing will.

Look at what has happened the past 6 months...
Auburn scandal
Oregon scandal
LSU scandal
Ohio State scandal
Fiesta Bowl scandal
Texas A&M/Conference Realignment Drama
Tennessee basketball scandal
UConn basketbal scandal
UNC football scandal
SMU basketball scandal

Bambi
08-17-2011, 10:54 PM
I can't wait to see the 30 for 30 about this.

I love you still have that quote in your sig.

It gets truer and truer everyday...

Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan
08-17-2011, 10:56 PM
Yes, graduated back in the early '90s.

Why not say the year?

Bowser
08-17-2011, 11:06 PM
I love you still have that quote in your sig.

It gets truer and truer everyday...

LOL, you fairweather candyass.

Ultra Peanut
08-17-2011, 11:47 PM
This is so delicious.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2011-08/um-violations/story/miami-mess-a-strict-failure-of-leadership#ixzz1VM9rjeR9

Paul Dee was speaking to reporters on a conference call two years ago almost to the day when he uttered the phrase “strict liability.”

To the few paying close attention to the Memphis basketball infractions case who hadn’t already made up their minds on account of John Calipari’s proximity, that term came as a bit of a jolt.

... Included in the Yahoo! report was an allegation Miami basketball had used Shapiro as a source for a $10,000 cash payment that allegedly helped secure the recruitment of small forward DaQuan Jones, currently a senior with the Hurricanes.“We didn’t have any suspicion that (Shapiro) was doing anything like this,” Dee told The Palm Beach Post. “He didn’t do anything to cause concern.”

That’s a painfully soft defense against charges so profound. Whereas Memphis took the NCAA’s approval of Rose’s eligibility as a sign that he was—you guessed it—eligible, Dee has nothing more to offer than this to explain his department’s failure to notice the apparently rampant rule-breaking in a football program with such an appalling past it warranted near-constant scrutiny.

It always seemed incongruous, Dee’s presence as infractions committee chair. He was athletics director at Miami when more than 50 football players were alleged to be among the participants in a massive fraud of the federal Pell Grant system, when the Hurricanes later were banned from playing in a bowl game and stripped of dozens of scholarships.

It’s possible that episode from the 1990s was a mere preamble to what some are describing as the most sweeping scandal in NCAA history.And yeah, college sports are as insane as I've ever seen them this offseason. I think I want the whole thing to blow up at this point just to see justice kind of be served.

CoMoChief
08-18-2011, 12:03 AM
This couldn't have happened to a more deserving athletic dept.

ThugU......

DaKCMan AP
08-18-2011, 08:09 AM
Florida says WR Andre Debose, RT Matt Patchan are eligible for 2011 season
by Jason Lieser

As an investigation into improper benefits at Miami extends to campuses around the country, the University of Florida has cleared its two players and coach that were linked to Hurricanes booster Nevin Shapiro in a recent Yahoo! investigative report.

The University Athletic Association issued a statement today saying WR Andre Debose and RT Matt Patchan are eligible for the upcoming season.

“We have been in communication with the NCAA and there are no eligibility issues with Andre Debose and Matt Patchan as it relates to recent reports,” the statement read. “Andre, Matt nor the University of Florida will have any additional comments regarding this matter.”

Both players were recruited by Miami before signing with the Gators.

Earlier in the week, Florida issued a statement about the third member of its program named in the report. Receivers coach and recruiting coordinator Aubrey Hill, who previously was the receivers coach at Miami, was alleged to have put Hurricanes recruits in contact with Shapiro.

“Coach Hill indicated he was very comfortable with, and very confident in how he conducted himself while at the University of Miami,” Gators spokesman Steve McClain said in a statement Tuesday night.

:thumb:

Dartgod
08-18-2011, 08:19 AM
Alden needs to be canned.

From the whole Quin/Ricky Clemons/Gary Link saga to getting owned by their arch rivals for a Orange Bowl bid, then the Mu to Big 10 rumors that eventually backfired in their faces and what ultimately will lea to the end of the Big12 conference and whatever shot MU has at playing a a major bowl game in the near future esp with some of the recruits they're starting to get in fball (esp if they pick up DGB). The failing attempt to hire Matt Painter, leading to a desperation and incompetent hire in Frank Haith, a marginal at best coach with a shitty record. So the feds were investigating Miami back in Aug-Sept 2010 when all of the ponzi scheme shit came afloat with that booster Shapiro and you're telling me that Alden, after hiring Haith in the spring of 2011, had known nothing about this or what could possibly come out of it? I don't buy that for one second... This wasn't something small.....this was a HUGE scandal. It's Alden's job to protect the integrity of the Ath dept at MU. Either he was WAYYY too incompetent when making this hire or he just plain didn't care about what was going on behind the curtain, in which either way he needs to be fired. How many lives does this AD have lol?
Holy crap, I agree with CoMo! :eek:

phisherman
08-18-2011, 09:09 AM
who cares?

is haith innocent until proven guilty? or are we taking the word of a convicted felon that is going to serve a long prison stretch? is there tape of haith supposedly "acknowledging" any kind of payment?

the president of the U is also in pictures with the booster in question. does that mean that any allegations that he spouts about her are true as well?

i didn't like the hire when it happened, and i'm still sour on it, but i'll let the NCAA do their investigation and see how it bears out.

DJ's left nut
08-18-2011, 09:16 AM
who cares?

is haith innocent until proven guilty? or are we taking the word of a convicted felon that is going to serve a long prison stretch? is there tape of haith supposedly "acknowledging" any kind of payment?

the president of the U is also in pictures with the booster in question. does that mean that any allegations that he spouts about her are true as well?

i didn't like the hire when it happened, and i'm still sour on it, but i'll let the NCAA do their investigation and see how it bears out.

Who cares? Really?

How about every major recruit that Haith pursues for the next 24 months? How about the head of every major conference that sees "Haith, now at Missouri...." scroll across the ESPN ticker on an endless loop. How about the recruiters at every major school in the country that is chasing one of our guys, that will absolutely barbecue Haith (and by extension, Mizzou), if not to the recruits, at least to their families.

Here, Bernie pretty much covers it:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_65adcced-9d84-5902-b6a5-22eb7a88b101.html#.Tk0aqMrNaQw.twitter

You absolutely cannot be this naive.

He needs to go.

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 09:17 AM
who cares?

is haith innocent until proven guilty? or are we taking the word of a convicted felon that is going to serve a long prison stretch? is there tape of haith supposedly "acknowledging" any kind of payment?

the president of the U is also in pictures with the booster in question. does that mean that any allegations that he spouts about her are true as well?

i didn't like the hire when it happened, and i'm still sour on it, but i'll let the NCAA do their investigation and see how it bears out.

fans....god bless em

phisherman
08-18-2011, 09:44 AM
fans....god bless em

you can say that all you want, but i would say the same thing about any other coach, at any other school.

the only truly naive people are the ones that believe that this kind of stuff doesn't happen at EVERY school. i went to both NWMSU and CMSU in college and i can tell you right now, i saw money being passed to athletes with my own eyes. i had fraternity brothers on the football team and basketball team at both schools and "hundred dollar handshakes" were pretty common, as well as new TVs, nice "temporary" vehicles, etc.

i'd wager that if the right person talked, both MU and KU could be on the front page tomorrow, with similar headlines.

no one is truly clean in this game. pardon me if i'm not ready to kick a coach out the door solely because of the words of a convicted ponzi scheme felon, that's going to spend a long time in prison.

DJ's left nut
08-18-2011, 09:46 AM
you can say that all you want, but i would say the same thing about any other coach, at any other school.

the only truly naive people are the ones that believe that this kind of stuff doesn't happen at EVERY school. i went to both NWMSU and CMSU in college and i can tell you right now, i saw money being passed to athletes with my own eyes. i had fraternity brothers on the football team and basketball team at both schools and "hundred dollar handshakes" were pretty common, as well as new TVs, nice "temporary" vehicles, etc.

i'd wager that if the right person talked, both MU and KU could be on the front page tomorrow, with similar headlines.

no one is truly clean in this game.

That's all well and good, but right now it's Frank Haith's that getting excoriated on a national level and it's the University of Missouri that keeps getting associated with him.

Rightly or wrongly, this is a smudge on the University.

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 09:46 AM
you can say that all you want, but i would say the same thing about any other coach, at any other school.

the only truly naive people are the ones that believe that this kind of stuff doesn't happen at EVERY school. i went to both NWMSU and CMSU in college and i can tell you right now, i saw money being passed to athletes with my own eyes. i had fraternity brothers on the football team and basketball team at both schools and "hundred dollar handshakes" were pretty common, as well as new TVs, nice "temporary" vehicles, etc.

i'd wager that if the right person talked, both MU and KU could be on the front page tomorrow, with similar headlines.

no one is truly clean in this game.


fans, god bless em

Brock
08-18-2011, 09:47 AM
you can say that all you want, but i would say the same thing about any other coach, at any other school.

the only truly naive people are the ones that believe that this kind of stuff doesn't happen at EVERY school. i went to both NWMSU and CMSU in college and i can tell you right now, i saw money being passed to athletes with my own eyes. i had fraternity brothers on the football team and basketball team at both schools and "hundred dollar handshakes" were pretty common, as well as new TVs, nice "temporary" vehicles, etc.

i'd wager that if the right person talked, both MU and KU could be on the front page tomorrow, with similar headlines.

no one is truly clean in this game.

Yes, things like this probably do go on everywhere. But it isn't discovered everywhere, and when it is discovered, people have to lose their jobs. If Missouri cares at all about the perception of their athletic department, they can't keep this guy around.

JASONSAUTO
08-18-2011, 10:01 AM
Yes, things like this probably do go on everywhere. But it isn't discovered everywhere, and when it is discovered, people have to lose their jobs. If Missouri cares at all about the perception of their athletic department, they can't keep this guy around.

IMO the same could be said about alden

ChiefsCountry
08-18-2011, 10:06 AM
And even with all the scandals with men's basketball at Mizzou, the athletic department has never been stronger.

phisherman
08-18-2011, 10:30 AM
Yes, things like this probably do go on everywhere. But it isn't discovered everywhere, and when it is discovered, people have to lose their jobs. If Missouri cares at all about the perception of their athletic department, they can't keep this guy around.

i don't disagree with you, at the minimum because of public perception and the recruiting issues that could arise.

just seems that if this coach was a more known commodity or bigger name, maybe he would be given the benefit of the doubt.

i've said before in this thread that i wasn't a fan of the hire and still am not, but to string this guy up because of something a felon said seems to be a tad premature.

it's great to see other posters marginalizing others just because they think their opinion is somehow more informed. c'est la vie.

DJ's left nut
08-18-2011, 10:41 AM
i don't disagree with you, at the minimum because of public perception and the recruiting issues that could arise.

just seems that if this coach was a more known commodity or bigger name, maybe he would be given the benefit of the doubt.

i've said before in this thread that i wasn't a fan of the hire and still am not, but to string this guy up because of something a felon said seems to be a tad premature.

it's great to see other posters marginalizing others just because they think their opinion is somehow more informed. c'est la vie.

How 'bout the fact that there are credit card receipts and phone records indicating at least 85 calls and texts over a period of a few years between Haith and Shapiro?

Or the corroborating witness to the strip club incident?

Or the alarming amount of corroboration for the other allegations made by Shapiro throughout this story, including some of the players confirming the allegations. Is he just making things up as they relate to Haith?

This is a HELL of a lot more than just "something a felon said."

The NCAA will absolutely burn Frank Haith before all is said and done here. Even if it doesn't, the damage that has been done to Haith's reputation as a man of character has been massive.

Don't disregard what's truly happening here. Charles Robinson, the guy that has now smoked 3 major universities and has built his reputation as a very thorough and accurate investigator, has felt it appropriate to stake his reputation as a journalist on the claims of Nevin Shapiro. Many of these claims, if not most of them, have been corroborated by extrinsic evidence or collateral sources.

This is a major MAJOR blow to the reputation of Frank Haith and by extension, his employer.

And if you can't see that, I have no problem at all marginalizing your opinion because my opinion clearly is more informed - or at least less naive.

eazyb81
08-18-2011, 10:41 AM
i don't disagree with you, at the minimum because of public perception and the recruiting issues that could arise.

just seems that if this coach was a more known commodity or bigger name, maybe he would be given the benefit of the doubt.


Probably true, but this was a risky hire to begin with. If this were Calipari, Izzo, or even Self, the school might be more likely to deal with some poor PR for a bit.

But Haith already has two strikes against him before he's even coached a game: 1) poor past performance and 2) named in a massive pay for play scandal.

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 11:02 AM
i don't disagree with you, at the minimum because of public perception and the recruiting issues that could arise.

just seems that if this coach was a more known commodity or bigger name, maybe he would be given the benefit of the doubt.

i've said before in this thread that i wasn't a fan of the hire and still am not, but to string this guy up because of something a felon said seems to be a tad premature.

it's great to see other posters marginalizing others just because they think their opinion is somehow more informed. c'est la vie.

you don't appear to have even read the article....or the 2 dozen individual pages setup to display the documentary evidence related to each person named...


it's the most thoroughly sourced investigative piece about booster malfeasance probably ever....

but hey, I'm sure your uninformed, head in the sand, fanboi opinion is probably closer to the truth....

phisherman
08-18-2011, 11:03 AM
sorry man, i just don't think that call records or strip club receipts prove intent in any way. since when is it against NCAA rules to go to a strip club with a booster or talk to one on the phone? maybe i'm missing something, but those don't seem like a legitimate smoking fun, at least in my eyes. perhaps NCAA investigators will feel differently.

and by the way, i never claimed that everything was on the level and i've agreed that it's a massive PR hit. i'm just a realist.

i don't see the fanboy slant The Talking Can keeps referring to. i like to have solid proof before i go off the deep end demanding firings.

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-18-2011, 11:03 AM
Keeping Haith will completely destroy the basketball program. The hire has now probably set us back 3-5 years. You can't let it be ten. Fire him and fire the idiot who thought he was worth the job in the first place (he wasn't) for his supposed values and recruiting ability (he has none).

You can't whiff more badly than this.

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 11:05 AM
sorry man, i just don't think that call records or strip club receipts prove intent in any way. since when is it against NCAA rules to go to a strip club with a booster or talk to one on the phone? maybe i'm missing something, but those don't seem like a legitimate smoking fun, at least in my eyes. perhaps NCAA investigators will feel differently.

and by the way, i never claimed that everything was on the level and i've agreed that it's a massive PR hit. i'm just a realist.

i don't see the fanboy slant The Talking Can keeps referring to. i like to have solid proof before i go off the deep end demanding firings.

no, you're just like the realist osu fans who think ESPN exists for the sole purpose of making stuff up about osu....

BigCatDaddy
08-18-2011, 11:05 AM
sorry man, i just don't think that call records or strip club receipts prove intent in any way. since when is it against NCAA rules to go to a strip club with a booster or talk to one on the phone? maybe i'm missing something, but those don't seem like a legitimate smoking fun, at least in my eyes. perhaps NCAA investigators will feel differently.

and by the way, i never claimed that everything was on the level and i've agreed that it's a massive PR hit. i'm just a realist.

i don't see the fanboy slant The Talking Can keeps referring to. i like to have solid proof before i go off the deep end demanding firings.

:facepalm:

phisherman
08-18-2011, 11:07 AM
you don't appear to have even read the article....or the 2 dozen individual pages setup to display the documentary evidence related to each person named...


it's the most thoroughly sourced investigative piece about booster malfeasance probably ever....

but hey, I'm sure your uninformed, head in the sand, fanboi opinion is probably closer to the truth....

also, i have read the robinson piece about haith. i see questionable activity with the "acknowledged" payment of 10k and some phone calls/texts. i'm not sure of how often boosters interact with coaches, but 85 over a period of five years doesn't seem like THAT much.

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 11:09 AM
also, i have read the robinson piece about haith. i see questionable activity with the "acknowledged" payment of 10k and some phone calls/texts. i'm not sure of how often boosters interact with coaches, but 85 over a period of five years doesn't seem like THAT much.

so, you don't know how often coaches and boosters interact...but you know that 85 times is ok....


like I said....head in the sand

phisherman
08-18-2011, 11:14 AM
do you know how much coaches and boosters interact?

4th and Long
08-18-2011, 11:14 AM
also, i have read the robinson piece about haith. i see questionable activity with the "acknowledged" payment of 10k and some phone calls/texts. i'm not sure of how often boosters interact with coaches, but 85 over a period of five years doesn't seem like THAT much.
There is a big picture here. Someone is not seeing it.

phisherman
08-18-2011, 11:19 AM
if the big picture is simply that he's associated with this guy, i see it.

it definitely smells funny.

i'm curious to see what the NCAA ends up with.

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 11:20 AM
Haith has been in contact with Shapiro more than once a month for 5 years, just based on the #'s available....older records were destroyed


during this time, Shapiro was doling out hundred of thousands of dollars to dozens of players and coaching staffs of both football and basketball...


but to you, MU fanboi, it is most likely that Haith had no idea what was happening....never mind that expenses claimed have been verified with bank statements and receipts, and that most players and coaches named are photographed with Shapiro in strip clubs and in restaurants...

phisherman
08-18-2011, 11:24 AM
sorry dude, not an MU fanboy. they could fire haith right now and i'd be happy with really any other name that was floating around as a possibility.

i agree, where there's smoke, there's fire. i've said as much before in this exact thread.

but isn't it the NCAA's job to investigate, not the court of public opinion? because at the end of the day, mike alden cares a lot more about what the NCAA has to say, not what you have to say.

now, future recruits, parents, etc, that's another story.

Pants
08-18-2011, 11:26 AM
Haith has been in contact with Shapiro more than once a month for 5 years, just based on the #'s available....older records were destroyed


during this time, Shapiro was doling out hundred of thousands of dollars to dozens of players and coaching staffs of both football and basketball...


but to you, MU fanboi, it is most likely that Haith had no idea what was happening....never mind that expenses claimed have been verified with bank statements and receipts, and that most players and coaches named are photographed with Shapiro in strip clubs and in restaurants...

You're assuming it was just 1 text every 3 weeks or so? Usually when people have a conversation, it goes beyond just 1 text.

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 11:29 AM
You're assuming it was just 1 text every 3 weeks or so? Usually when people have a conversation, it goes beyond just 1 text.

the more compressed the time frame, the worse it looks for Haith...I was trying to be generous

Pants
08-18-2011, 11:31 AM
the more compressed the time frame, the worse it looks for Haith...I was trying to be generous

So you think it would be worse if Haith had conversed with Shapiro 10 times during the 5 year period (instead of 85 times)?

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 11:37 AM
So you think it would be worse if Haith had conversed with Shapiro 10 times during the 5 year period (instead of 85 times)?

no, if the 85+ communications happened in 1-2 years vs 5....

and we aren't counting the communication between Shapiro and Haith's assistants, which I'd bet were 5x as many...


http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313229521.jpg


Haith: "Here's me with a complete stranger who bought us a $3000 meal...woot"

Pants
08-18-2011, 11:41 AM
no, if the 85+ communications happened in 1-2 years vs 5....

and we aren't counting the communication between Shapiro and Haith's assistants, which I'd bet were 5x as many...


http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/08/ipt/1313229521.jpg


Haith: "Here's me with a complete stranger who bought us a $3000 meal...woot"

What would make you think the conversations happened in a 1-2 year span instead of what the article claims (85 texts/calls in a 5 year span)?

the Talking Can
08-18-2011, 11:43 AM
What would make you think the conversations happened in a 1-2 year span instead of what the article claims (85 texts/calls in a 5 year span)?

jesus christ people


I don't...it was hypothetical

Chocolate Hog
08-18-2011, 11:43 AM
Shapiro looks like 1 of those Butch Lesbians. You'll never be one of the cocaine cowboys dumbass.

WilliamTheIrish
08-18-2011, 12:11 PM
it definitely smells funny.


That's Haith's finger.

WilliamTheIrish
08-18-2011, 12:20 PM
the more compressed the time frame, the worse it looks for Haith...I was trying to be generous

I know I'm jumping into the middle of this but here goes:

As I recall from that lengthy article, many of Shapiro's phone/text records were expunged. It's possible and entirely plausible that Haithe and Shapiro talked/txt'd hundreds of more times.

EDIT: I'll shut up, I missed a post where you said the same thing.

DJ's left nut
08-18-2011, 01:08 PM
Probably true, but this was a risky hire to begin with. If this were Calipari, Izzo, or even Self, the school might be more likely to deal with some poor PR for a bit.

But Haith already has two strikes against him before he's even coached a game: 1) poor past performance and 2) named in a massive pay for play scandal.

Can't you just call the 2nd one a grounder to 1b?

I mean one of those really should mean that you're out. It's slightly more egregious than a mere strike.

Al Bundy
08-18-2011, 03:30 PM
How 'bout the fact that there are credit card receipts and phone records indicating at least 85 calls and texts over a period of a few years between Haith and Shapiro?

Or the corroborating witness to the strip club incident?

Or the alarming amount of corroboration for the other allegations made by Shapiro throughout this story, including some of the players confirming the allegations. Is he just making things up as they relate to Haith?

This is a HELL of a lot more than just "something a felon said."

The NCAA will absolutely burn Frank Haith before all is said and done here. Even if it doesn't, the damage that has been done to Haith's reputation as a man of character has been massive.

Don't disregard what's truly happening here. Charles Robinson, the guy that has now smoked 3 major universities and has built his reputation as a very thorough and accurate investigator, has felt it appropriate to stake his reputation as a journalist on the claims of Nevin Shapiro. Many of these claims, if not most of them, have been corroborated by extrinsic evidence or collateral sources.

This is a major MAJOR blow to the reputation of Frank Haith and by extension, his employer.

And if you can't see that, I have no problem at all marginalizing your opinion because my opinion clearly is more informed - or at least less naive.

Thats fine, however MU must remember the Jim O'Brien deal at Ohio State. Ohio State fired him, when it came back he did nothing wrong Ohio State's money people had to write him a big check.

DJ's left nut
08-18-2011, 03:43 PM
Thats fine, however MU must remember the Jim O'Brien deal at Ohio State. Ohio State fired him, when it came back he did nothing wrong Ohio State's money people had to write him a big check.

Fine, but O'Brien was also banned from coaching shortly thereafter and by that time, tOSU had already distanced themselves from him. Let's slow down with "he did nothing wrong" - he did, but the courts ruled that OSU at least owed him a due process hearing.

Besides, the PR stain that would've come from his employment when he was busy getting blasted by the NCAA was more expensive than the payout tOSU ended up having to give him.

And that's still a worst case scenario that can be avoided by simply crossing a few Ts here and there. In fact, I'll be the employment contract Haith signed had language expressly dealing with such a contingency (lessons were most assuredly learned from the O'brien fiasco). If not, the University can give him a little dog/pony show before running his ass out. An administrative hearing would probably be sufficient.

Jim O'Brien, a guy later disgraced and run from the game, is hardly the guy I'd be looking towards in trying to save my own skin were I Frank Haith.

Al Bundy
08-18-2011, 03:49 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you DJ. If I were an opposing head coach and going head to head for a recruit with Haith right now I would make sure the parents of the recruit knew what was going on with Haith.

DJ's left nut
08-19-2011, 02:03 PM
Charles Robinson actually appears to be a pretty cool guy.

Fascinating exchange between he and Tommy Craggs (of Deadspin fame)

http://deadspin.com/5832365/my-correspondence-with-charles-robinson

I'm inclined to agree with him - the NCAA has problems, but there's a hell of a lot more to it than "blow it up!!!!!11!111"

The ending is beautiful:

In fact, if I wasn't out here exposing the hypocrisy that exists in the first place, you wouldn't have shit to say about it, because the glaring flaws wouldn't be constantly shoved into the public's face. You and "your pals" wouldn't be able to "make a career" out of playing professional bitchy contrarian witness. I'll stick to actually going out and exposing the shit I know is happening, while you sit and take shots at me for it. Enjoy the warmth inside your classroom, professor.

TC: I enjoy these lectures on elevating the discourse from the guy who opened this argument, "Blah blah blah." I think we're done here, yes? Godspeed, Charles. I'll continue to admire everything you write that's not about the NCAA, and I'll continue to marvel at the dimensions and fine wood grain of the stick you're shoving up your ass.

CR: Spoken like a true self-fellating dickwad. Good luck in your endlessly too-cool-for-school endeavors, Tommy Craggs.

Pants
08-19-2011, 02:18 PM
Charles Robinson actually appears to be a pretty cool guy.

Fascinating exchange between he and Tommy Craggs (of Deadspin fame)

http://deadspin.com/5832365/my-correspondence-with-charles-robinson

I'm inclined to agree with him - the NCAA has problems, but there's a hell of a lot more to it than "blow it up!!!!!11!111"

The ending is beautiful:

Great read, thanks for the link. Judging by that exchange, Tommy Craggs is absolutely useless.

DJ's left nut
08-19-2011, 02:19 PM
Great read, thanks for the link. Judging by that exchange, Tommy Craggs is absolutely useless.

He got proper fucked in that little 'debate', didn't he?

Craggs is actually a good writer, but he got fed his lunch right there.

Pants
08-19-2011, 02:25 PM
He got proper ****ed in that little 'debate', didn't he?

Craggs is actually a good writer, but he got fed his lunch right there.

Well, that's what happens when you point out the obvious and offer no solution. Yes, everyone already knows that all schools are dirty, so what? You don't attack a journalist doing an excellent job of exposing one such instance to the public in glorious detail, you praise him for it.

|Zach|
08-19-2011, 04:53 PM
As if we were not already in a precarious enough situation. WTF?

The NCAA has asked that Missouri officials not conduct their own investigation into allegations that MU Coach Frank Haith had knowledge of and expressed gratitude for a $10,000 payment that helped secure the commitment of a recruit while he was coaching at Miami.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2011/aug/19/ncaa-has-asked-mu-not-investigate-haith/?tigerextra

eazyb81
09-02-2011, 06:44 AM
Faith in Haith!!! (?)

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/02/2385623/um-hoops-player-dequan-jones-mom.html
“This whole thing is such a lie,” said Jones’ mother, Irene Bell, reached by phone in Atlanta, where she has worked nine years in accounts payable at a transportation company. “It is so, so frustrating because our family has been smeared and we are innocent. There is no way I would ever exploit my only child. Never, never, never was any money offered. If that had happened, I’d have been turned off by a coach willing to bend rules.
She said her son has been interviewed by the NCAA and “he felt really good about it because we’re innocent and have nothing to hide.”


Bell, Wheeler High School coach Doug Lipscomb, and AAU coach Desmond Eastmond pointed out the timing of the alleged transaction makes no sense. Jones verbally committed to UM on Sept. 4, 2007 and signed his official letter of intent with UM on Nov. 23, 2007. He moved to the UM campus in June 2008 and took summer classes. The alleged request for $10,000 was “in early summer of 2008,” according to the Yahoo! Sports investigation that was published two weeks ago.


“The whole thing just doesn’t add up,” said Eastmond, who coached Jones’ Atlanta-based Worldwide Renegades AAU team and was directly involved in Jones’ recruitment. “He loved UM from Day One, called me from his first official visit there and said he fell in love with the city of Miami and the coaching staff, felt he’d have a chance to play right away, and that’s where he was going, even though I suggested he wait and visit other schools to have something to compare it to. He made that decision on his own, with no outside influence that I know of. He signed with the school in November of ’07. Why would you need money to secure a commitment from a kid who had already signed with the team?”


Irene Bell said she was never contacted by Yahoo! Sports about the investigation and first heard about it when some colleagues at work saw it online.

eazyb81
09-02-2011, 06:45 AM
Also apparently this news isn't going to destroy recruiting, as Haith has landed two new commitments in the last week.

El Jefe
09-02-2011, 07:15 AM
Also apparently this news isn't going to destroy recruiting, as Haith has landed two new commitments in the last week.

Beaches, women and night life isn't hard to use to recruit players.

eazyb81
09-02-2011, 07:18 AM
Beaches, women and night life isn't hard to use to recruit players.

and Lord knows there's plenty of that to go around in Columbia, MO.

DJ's left nut
09-02-2011, 08:50 AM
Also apparently this news isn't going to destroy recruiting, as Haith has landed two new commitments in the last week.

Oh c'mon.

He landed a 5'11'', 3-star point-guard that grew up in Columbia.

That's like me bragging about how smooth I am after having sex with my wife - if you can't manage that one, you probably oughta give it up.

|Zach|
09-02-2011, 09:10 AM
Oh c'mon.

He landed a 5'11'', 3-star point-guard that grew up in Columbia.

That's like me bragging about how smooth I am after having sex with my wife - if you can't manage that one, you probably oughta give it up.

Yea, but you always walk this line where you talk about how terrible Mizzou is at when it comes to pretty much everything in how they deal with their business as if they can't do anything right and then when something like this comes along its all "oh that is easy"

This kid is smart...its a nice pickup.

eazyb81
09-02-2011, 09:15 AM
Oh c'mon.

He landed a 5'11'', 3-star point-guard that grew up in Columbia.

That's like me bragging about how smooth I am after having sex with my wife - if you can't manage that one, you probably oughta give it up.

Jorgenson is a top 100 player. Shawn Smith was top 150 in the last ranking and is from Florida.

Not quite Rodney Purvis yet, but damn solid considering the terrible publicity.

I expect recruiting to pickup as this story continues to fade into obscurity.

El Jefe
09-02-2011, 09:19 AM
and Lord knows there's plenty of that to go around in Columbia, MO.

I quoted that out of reference apparently I was speaking in regards to recruiting for the U. Ease up brah :thumb:

DJ's left nut
09-02-2011, 09:21 AM
Yea, but you always walk this line where you talk about how terrible Mizzou is at when it comes to pretty much everything in how they deal with their business as if they can't do anything right and then when something like this comes along its all "oh that is easy"

This kid is smart...its a nice pickup.

I can't even begin to understand what you just said. I believe it's the world's first triple run-on sentence without any punctuation whatsoever.

I believe you're saying that I'm essentially a fatalist when it comes to Mizzou and don't give them credit when they succeed.

Okay, then tell me - why the hell should they get any appreciable credit for bringing in a mediocre recruit that grew up in this town?

Frank Haith - master recruiter - was supposed to be bringing in four-star guys and upping the talent level to where he could overcome his mediocre game management skills, remember?

It's not like Haith was Doug Wojcik and was advertised as a master strategist and game-coach. It was acknowledged by everyone that the guy makes his bones off recruiting premier players. And I'm supposed to be excited by the fact that he secured a commitment that I could get? Seriously, how fucking lousy would he have had to have been to lose this kid? He's not that good, he has no discernible ceiling, and he grew up a Tiger. Frankly, the fact that Haith has to resort to offering a scholarship to this level of player is a straight up indictment of how poor a job he's done to this point.

He was a bad hire from the moment he was made and he's been an absolute fucking disaster from that point forward (seriously - try to listen to Mike Claiborne on 101 ESPN in STL about how pathetic his attempts at 're-opening' St. Louis have been).

Oh, and yes, Mike Alden remains incompetent.

eazyb81
09-02-2011, 09:22 AM
I quoted that out of reference apparently I was speaking in regards to recruiting for the U. Ease up brah :thumb:

I was just joking. I knew you were thinking he was still in Miami.

DJ's left nut
09-02-2011, 09:26 AM
Jorgenson is a top 100 player. Shawn Smith was top 150 in the last ranking and is from Florida.

Not quite Rodney Purvis yet, but damn solid considering the terrible publicity.

I expect recruiting to pickup as this story continues to fade into obscurity.

Jorgenson is the PG version of Ricky Kreklow.

I am not impressed.

Go ahead and see if a back-court of Jorgenson and Kreklow even gets you a .500 conference record. I'd be shocked to see a squad with those two manning the 1 and 2 winning more than 14 games on the season.

He snagged a local rotational guard and role player - HUZZAH! RECRUITING MAGIC HAS RETURNED TO MIZZOU!

eazyb81
09-02-2011, 09:30 AM
I can't even begin to understand what you just said. I believe it's the world's first triple run-on sentence without any punctuation whatsoever.

I believe you're saying that I'm essentially a fatalist when it comes to Mizzou and don't give them credit when they succeed.

Okay, then tell me - why the hell should they get any appreciable credit for bringing in a mediocre recruit that grew up in this town?

Frank Haith - master recruiter - was supposed to be bringing in four-star guys and upping the talent level to where he could overcome his mediocre game management skills, remember?

It's not like Haith was Doug Wojcik and was advertised as a master strategist and game-coach. It was acknowledged by everyone that the guy makes his bones off recruiting premier players. And I'm supposed to be excited by the fact that he secured a commitment that I could get? Seriously, how ****ing lousy would he have had to have been to lose this kid? He's not that good, he has no discernible ceiling, and he grew up a Tiger. Frankly, the fact that Haith has to resort to offering a scholarship to this level of player is a straight up indictment of how poor a job he's done to this point.

He was a bad hire from the moment he was made and he's been an absolute ****ing disaster from that point forward (seriously - try to listen to Mike Claiborne on 101 ESPN in STL about how pathetic his attempts at 're-opening' St. Louis have been).

Oh, and yes, Mike Alden remains incompetent.

I think it's pretty clear what Zach was trying to say; you are extremely negative about Mizzou, and even when they do something well you don't give them credit. Maybe you don't notice it, maybe just don't give a damn, but it does get old having fans like you constantly complain about how terrible everything is.

Jorgenson is a top 100 overall player, he's not some scrub. That's great that you think we can do so much better, but we aren't exactly a basketball blue blood. We are still in on some top kids and I think we have a great chance at Purvis. Unfortunately we have huge roster holes in 2012 and 2013, so we need bodies right now, and other schools have been recruiting the top players in these classes for years.

And if you had forgotten, our recruiting has been down in the dumps for the last couple years due to Anderson's apathy. We missed on how many top 100 Missouri kids last year? Five?

I don't care to argue all day with you on this, feel however you want about it. But life would be more enjoyable if you learned to look on the bright side more often.

ChiTown
09-02-2011, 09:32 AM
Jorgenson is a top 100 player. Shawn Smith was top 150 in the last ranking and is from Florida.

Not quite Rodney Purvis yet, but damn solid considering the terrible publicity.

I expect recruiting to pickup as this story continues to fade into obscurity.

Shawn Smith is the goods. If he can keep his head straight, he is going to be a helluva player.

|Zach|
09-02-2011, 09:34 AM
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/103230/stefan-jankovic

@GabeDeArmond
Gabe DeArmond
Just got a text from Huntington, WV forward Stefan Jankovic. He tells me he just landed in Columbia for an unofficial visit to #Mizzou.