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View Full Version : Chiefs What do all the great Quarterbacks have in common?


RedThat
08-20-2011, 07:43 PM
Just curious.

I've been thinking this to myself lately and could think of one thing that comes to mind, excellent field vision. If I am missing anything, please care to add.

I've watched the likes of Brady, Montana, and Marino who were very productive and still managed to get by without superstar receivers. How? It had to be good field vision that enabled them to progress through their reads and make plays.

Good field vision goes a long long way imo. Without, I don't think there is much a quarterback can do? Which kinda worries me a bit about Cassel. I've been watching this last preseason game against the Ravens and Im still seeing bad reads from him. Im still seeing how his eyes just lock onto one receiver without managing to keep it on the entire field. I don't mean to turn this into a Cassel debate or anything, but he had this very issue last year and has me wondering, is this the one particular attribute that will prevent him from being great?

I think good field vision is a skill but not one that can be taught. You either have that or you don't. Much like speed. Can't teach speed to an athlete either. I can understand now when some people say his ceiling is limited.

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2011, 07:46 PM
A coach at the top of his game.

-King-
08-20-2011, 07:47 PM
They've all been men.








Well, except for Elway. He's been the rare horse that's made it.

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 07:47 PM
tons of women who want to have sex with them.

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 07:48 PM
money

O.city
08-20-2011, 07:48 PM
Well in his defense, most of the throws he made last night were on short drops which don't usually have many reads. It's usually three steps and the ball is out if your option is slightly open.

On the QB thing, I think the biggest thing is comfortablity in the pocket. How many times have you seen Manning or Brady slide slightly one way or the other and avoid the hit to complete a pass. So yeah that plays into vision but also just being comfortable back there.

Some plays Cassel looks comfortable and some he gets rushed. I do feel that his comfortable plays are coming more often which is hopefully a good sign.

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 07:48 PM
two arms...

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 07:49 PM
two legs...

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 07:49 PM
a torso

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 07:49 PM
two eyes

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 07:49 PM
well, you get the gist.

stevieray
08-20-2011, 07:50 PM
...does a QB always have to move his head to indicate he's gone through his reads?...sometimes, qbs lock on to a receiver as a means for misdirection...

Marcellus
08-20-2011, 07:51 PM
They were all really good at the QB position.

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2011, 07:53 PM
I think it's safe to assume that everyone's drinking tonight.

boogblaster
08-20-2011, 07:54 PM
coaching .. ability to make reads .. tons of film on other the teams weakness ....

DTLB58
08-20-2011, 07:55 PM
They wear the #12 or 16 or...

stevieray
08-20-2011, 07:55 PM
I think it's safe to assume that everyone's drinking tonight.

on three...BREAK! (claps)

RedThat
08-20-2011, 07:55 PM
...does a QB always have to move his head to indicate he's gone through his reads?...sometimes, qbs lock on to a receiver as a means for misdirection...

True. How often does that happen though?

milkman
08-20-2011, 07:55 PM
...does a QB always have to move his head to indicate he's gone through his reads?...sometimes, qbs lock on to a receiver as a means for misdirection...

Well, when a QB locks onto one receiver, and he throws to that receiver, you can be pretty sure that is not a case of misdirection.

-King-
08-20-2011, 07:56 PM
I've also heard that the majority of them had knee caps. Still trying to verify that.

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 07:59 PM
an anus. all great QBs had anii.

Ebolapox
08-20-2011, 08:00 PM
rather, anuses.

stevieray
08-20-2011, 08:00 PM
True. How often does that happen though?

I'm just saying that just because a QB isn't moving his head, doesn't mean he can't see his reads.

stevieray
08-20-2011, 08:01 PM
Well, when a QB locks onto one receiver, and he throws to that receiver, you can be pretty sure that is not a case of misdirection.
...Im not debating that sceanrio.

milkman
08-20-2011, 08:02 PM
I'm just saying that just because a QB isn't moving his head, doesn't mean he can't see his reads.

If a QB doesn't move his head, there is no way he can see the entire field.

RedThat
08-20-2011, 08:02 PM
Well in his defense, most of the throws he made last night were on short drops which don't usually have many reads. It's usually three steps and the ball is out if your option is slightly open.

On the QB thing, I think the biggest thing is comfortablity in the pocket. How many times have you seen Manning or Brady slide slightly one way or the other and avoid the hit to complete a pass. So yeah that plays into vision but also just being comfortable back there.

Some plays Cassel looks comfortable and some he gets rushed. I do feel that his comfortable plays are coming more often which is hopefully a good sign.

Yeah but Brady has tremendous poise and patience. when there is a rush, he may glance at it for a split second, but doesn't show much panic in the process. The thing that impresses me most about him is that he can still maintain his poise, pocket awareness and have his eyes set down the field at the same time.

Cassel on the other hand, when the rush is on, he panics and then looks at the rush rather than down the field.

milkman
08-20-2011, 08:03 PM
Yeah but Brady has tremendous poise and patience. when there is a rush, he may glance at it for a split second, but doesn't show much panic in the process. The thing that impresses me most about him is that he can still maintain his poise, pocket awareness and have his eyes set down the field at the same time.

Cassel on the other hand, when the rush is on, he panics and then looks at the rush rather than down the field.

Are you and Tribal Warfare related?

O.city
08-20-2011, 08:04 PM
Yeah but Brady has tremendous poise and patience. when there is a rush, he may glance at it for a split second, but doesn't show much panic in the process. The thing that impresses me most about him is that he can still maintain his poise, pocket awareness and have his eyes set down the field at the same time.

Cassel on the other hand, when the rush is on, he panics and then looks at the rush rather than down the field.

I just don't think Cassel has good pocket presence at all. Alot of times he has more time than he thinks he does.

RedThat
08-20-2011, 08:04 PM
Are you and Tribal Warfare related?

ROFL

hey Im just giving my 2 cents on what I see.

stevieray
08-20-2011, 08:05 PM
If a QB doesn't move his head, there is no way he can see the entire field.
I'm not saying a QB can't move his head.....and every pass play isn't a crapshoot to see who gets open after the snap.

milkman
08-20-2011, 08:06 PM
ROFL

hey Im just giving my 2 cents on what I see.

Yes, and you leave us wondering if you have good post vision.

RedThat
08-20-2011, 08:07 PM
Yes, and you leave us wondering if you have good post vision.

You're entitled to your own opinion.

PatsFanDan
08-20-2011, 08:08 PM
Yeah but Brady has tremendous poise and patience. when there is a rush, he may glance at it for a split second, but doesn't show much panic in the process. The thing that impresses me most about him is that he can still maintain his poise, pocket awareness and have his eyes set down the field at the same time.

Cassel on the other hand, when the rush is on, he panics and then looks at the rush rather than down the field.

This was true of Cassel during that 11-5 season with the Pats. His biggest weakness was he didn't handle pressure defenses well.....the Pitt game being a good example that season.

I have always thought Josh Mcdaniels did a fantastic job coaching Cassel up that season. I don't think he's terrible by any means. But I do recall that preseason before Brady got hurt in week one....I wanted Cassel cut. He was awful in preseason. And I was shocked the Pats won 11 games with him at QB....all things considered.

milkman
08-20-2011, 08:09 PM
I'm not saying a QB can't move his head.....and every pass play isn't a crapshoot to see who gets open after the snap.

I'm just pointing out what I see as teh flaw in your point.

Misdirection is usually achieved by a pump fake, but assuming that a QB locks on a receiver for that purpose, then he's limiting his receiving targets to a narrow fileld.

It's possible, but I just don't see it.

milkman
08-20-2011, 08:09 PM
You're entitled to your own opinion.

That was supposed to be a joke.

RedThat
08-20-2011, 08:11 PM
That was supposed to be a joke.

If you say so.

durtyrute
08-20-2011, 08:11 PM
They have never played for the Chiefs?

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2011, 08:13 PM
They have never played for the Chiefs?

Nah. Joe Montana played for the Chiefs after he was washed up.

milkman
08-20-2011, 08:14 PM
If you say so.

If I'm going to insult you, I'm going to do it as directly and openly as humanly possible, not some sideways, lameass, indirect bullshit.

I don't do subtle.

RedThat
08-20-2011, 08:15 PM
This was true of Cassel during that 11-5 season with the Pats. His biggest weakness was he didn't handle pressure defenses well.....the Pitt game being a good example that season.

I have always thought Josh Mcdaniels did a fantastic job coaching Cassel up that season. I don't think he's terrible by any means. But I do recall that preseason before Brady got hurt in week one....I wanted Cassel cut. He was awful in preseason. And I was shocked the Pats won 11 games with him at QB....all things considered.

This is why I kinda hoped KC would address their tackle situation a little bit better. Gaither is not a bad pickup. Question is, will he play and get back to old form? We don't have the greatest set of tackles. to me, I think it would benefit Cassel if he had really good offensive tackles. just to buy him more time in the pocket and to give him that sense of security and comfort that he desperately needs.

durtyrute
08-20-2011, 08:15 PM
Nah. Joe Montana played for the Chiefs after he was washed up.

"Missed it by....that much"

RedThat
08-20-2011, 08:15 PM
If I'm going to insult you, I'm going to do it as directly and openly as humanly possible, not some sideways, lameass, indirect bullshit.

I don't do subtle.

Cool. Appreciate your honesty.

CrazyPhuD
08-20-2011, 08:19 PM
They're not game managers?

milkman
08-20-2011, 08:24 PM
They're not game managers?

I disagree.

Troy Aikman was a game manager, because he had a great O-Line in front of him, and a great running back behind him.

But when the need arose, he could take over and make plays.

I guess you could say that aren't game managers by necessity.

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2011, 08:28 PM
Aikman was a great quarterback?

ChiefsCountry
08-21-2011, 12:29 AM
Aikman was a great quarterback?

Aikman was a damn good QB.

Rudy lost the toss
08-21-2011, 07:49 AM
They were all starters in college?

Demonpenz
08-21-2011, 07:52 AM
Aikman was good. Three superbowls. One with Barry Switzer.

Messier
08-21-2011, 08:14 AM
To me, Cassel is a little like a pitcher that's a slow starter, but gets more comfortable as the season goes along. Now, if he can just finish strong.

JD10367
08-21-2011, 08:21 AM
I think the great quarterbacks of THIS era are very smart, calm under pressure, and accurate passers (in that order of importance).

The great quarterbacks of the past eras also had to be more physically dominating, and could get by on their arm strength, or toughness. It wasn't as esoteric of a game, I don't think. If you put a Terry Bradshaw on the 2011 Patriots, he'd probably be so confused he'd quit. Likewise, if you put Tom Brady on Bradshaw's Steelers, he'd be in a curled fetal position and pounded into a grass stain in about a half-hour.

milkman
08-21-2011, 08:32 AM
I think the great quarterbacks of THIS era are very smart, calm under pressure, and accurate passers (in that order of importance).

The great quarterbacks of the past eras also had to be more physically dominating, and could get by on their arm strength, or toughness. It wasn't as esoteric of a game, I don't think. If you put a Terry Bradshaw on the 2011 Patriots, he'd probably be so confused he'd quit. Likewise, if you put Tom Brady on Bradshaw's Steelers, he'd be in a curled fetal position and pounded into a grass stain in about a half-hour.

I disagree.

I've often compared Brady to Bradshaw because they both have/had an innate ability to glide in the pocket to avoid pressure, and both make/made throws in the face of pressure and do/did not shy away from the contact.

Brady is a tougher SOB than he gets credit for.

If you said the same thing about Peyton, I would agree with you.

RNR
08-21-2011, 09:29 AM
If I'm going to insult you, I'm going to do it as directly and openly as humanly possible, not some sideways, lameass, indirect bullshit.

I don't do subtle.

That is very true, and one of the reasons I respect you~

Dante84
08-21-2011, 09:39 AM
If I remember right, there was some sort of formula that all the elite QB's met when coming into the league from college.

Someone brought it up when we were discussing Stanzi around draft time, because he falls into all the similar characteristics that Brady had coming out of school.

It might have been based on some Parcell thing.... hmm.. i don't remember exactly

kstater
08-21-2011, 09:41 AM
They were all drafted in the first round.

gonefishin53
08-21-2011, 01:33 PM
Great QBs need good football smarts so they can make good pre-snap reads and get everybody in the right position and on the same page of the playbook pre-snap.

Great QBs have to have the mental toughness to make good decisions knowing they're going to get pounded when they release the pass.

Great QBs will use great timing and accuracy to pass their target open (lead the receiver into space instead of coverage).

I think Cassel is average at best in these essential great QB attributes.

kaplin42
08-21-2011, 03:55 PM
What do all the great Quarterbacks have in common?

They're not Matt Cassel?

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-21-2011, 04:20 PM
If a QB throws a ball and the guy gets 20 yards on 1st and 10 it's a 1st down/Redthat

RedThat
08-21-2011, 04:29 PM
If a QB throws a ball and the guy gets 20 yards on 1st and 10 it's a 1st down/Redthat


that would be a KAAAAANSASSS CITY CHIIIIEF FIRST DOWN!

milkman
08-21-2011, 04:31 PM
This what I think.

If a QB sees a receiver downfield and throws the ball, and the receiver catches it, and and he catches it 20 yards downfield from the original line of scrimmage, on 1st and 10 play, after the the ball is spotted by the officials after the receiver is tackled, and it's 10 yards beyond the first down marker, the next play is anther 1st down and 10 play/Redthat

FYP

RedThat
08-21-2011, 04:33 PM
FYP

Sh*t you just made my head hurt

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-21-2011, 04:49 PM
FYP

ROFL :clap:

milkman
08-21-2011, 04:50 PM
Sh*t you just made my head hurt

Now you know how I feel.

You do get a bit wordy and tedious.

RedThat
08-21-2011, 04:54 PM
Now you know how I feel.

You do get a bit wordy and tedious.

Too much to handle?

milkman
08-21-2011, 05:01 PM
Too much to handle?

My eyes sometimes glaze over when I'm reading your posts.

I think to myself, when RedThat goes into a new restaurant and he has to use the restroom, he stops the waitress/waiter and and says:

"I've never been in this restaurant before, and my bladder is filling up, so I have a need to empty it.

But since I have never been here before, I'm not certain where I might do that, and I don't want to drive home to handle the matter, so I would greatly appreciate it if you could point me the the room, called the rest room, or the men's room, or the wash room, that I can empty my bladder safely and privately".

RedThat
08-21-2011, 05:07 PM
My eyes sometimes glaze over when I'm reading your posts.

I think to myself, when RedThat goes into a new restaurant and he has to use the restroom, he stops the waitress/waiter and and says:

"I've never been in this restaurant before, and my bladder is filling up, so I have a need to empty it.

But since I have never been here before, I'm not certain where I might do that, and I don't want to drive home to handle the matter, so I would greatly appreciate it if you could point me the the room, called the rest room, or the men's room, or the wash room, that I can empty my bladder safely and privately".

ROFL thats funny. one of your better posts.

I try to be as specific as much as I can. Thats just me. Sometimes I type with too much on my mind. what can you do?

Dante84
08-21-2011, 05:15 PM
ROFL

fyp

Tribal Warfare
08-21-2011, 05:19 PM
accuracy, field vision( progression checks), calm under pressure, durability, great footwork, timing, escapibilty, and leadership qualities.

Pawnmower
08-21-2011, 05:25 PM
They are not Matt Cassel

/cp

milkman
08-21-2011, 05:26 PM
accuracy, field vision( progression checks), calm under pressure, great footwork, timing, escapibilty, and leadership qualities.

Kurt Warner.

Pioli Zombie
08-21-2011, 05:32 PM
"I think its the ability to force yourself on top of a woman and muffle her screams with your forearm" -Ben Roethlisburger

KCBOSS1
08-21-2011, 05:52 PM
The ability to forget the last play

CoMoChief
08-21-2011, 08:22 PM
What separates the good qb from a great one is that the great one can make avg or subpar receivers turn into good legitimate NFL starters. This is why Brady,Manning,Brees, and Rodgers are on an elite level..and then there's everyone else.

banyon
08-21-2011, 08:46 PM
Just curious.

I've been thinking this to myself lately and could think of one thing that comes to mind, excellent field vision. If I am missing anything, please care to add.

I've watched the likes of Brady, Montana, and Marino who were very productive and still managed to get by without superstar receivers. How? It had to be good field vision that enabled them to progress through their reads and make plays.



I think you raise a good point, but on Montana, I think Jerry Rice qualifies as a superstar. He was only named the #1 player in the history of the NFL recently on the 100 greatest players countdown. Yes, Montana won in 82 with Clark and Taylor, who were still pretty damn good, but the other 2...

CoMoChief
08-21-2011, 08:54 PM
Elite
P.Manning
Brady
Brees
Rodgers

Good
Ryan
Vick
Rivers
Roethlisberger

Average
Cassel
Orton
Sanchez
Flacco
Shaub
Romo
E.Manning
Cutler
Freeman
Bradford
McNabb
Stafford

Sucks
Campbell
Henne
Fitzpatrick
Hasslebeck
Garrard
McCoy
Dalton
Smith
Kolb
Jackson
Newton
Washington QB (forget who starts)

Dylan
08-22-2011, 12:49 AM
ELITE:
TOM BRADY
PAYTON MANNING,

THE BEST OF THE REST:
DREW BREES CAREER 2001-2010, DURABLE, 35,266 YARDS, 235 TD, SUPER BOWL MVP
ELI MANNING CAREER 2004-2010, DURABLE, 22,646 YARDS, 156 TD, SUPER BOWL MVP
ROETHLISBERGER CAREER 2004-2010 DURABLE, 22,502 YARDS, 144 TD, (2) SUPER BOWL
ROGERS CAREER 2005-2010, (2008-9,10 STARTER) 12,723 YARDS, 87 TD, SUPER BOWL MVP

AVERAGE:
MICHAEL VICK CAREER 2001-2010* 14,609 YARDS, 93 TD
PHIL RIVERS CAREER 2004-2010, 19,661 YARDS, 136 TD

* VICK- 2007, 2008 Suspension

Average, had their chance and failed.


There are six active quarterbacks that have won the Super Bowl. I think it's hard to make any sort of sustainable point without measuring overall consistency in postseason play.

Often, a quarterback's consistency is the difference in winning or losing. When you get closer to the big game, the most successful quarterbacks makes critical plays at critical times.

Playoffs are where reputations are made, as this is where the elite winners shine.

Winning the Super Bowl is the icing on the cake.

Dartgod
08-22-2011, 06:21 AM
None of them have ever been in my kitchen. /cliff claven

Okie_Apparition
08-22-2011, 06:27 AM
They know that 90-95% of their work is forgotten, because it's garbage. So they are concise. They don't make up their minds while they're still talking