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Tribal Warfare
08-21-2011, 05:27 AM
Chiefs need to rethink their business model (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/20/3088497/chiefs-need-to-rethink-their-economic.html)
By SAM MELLINGER
The Kansas City Star

The NFL is facing a major problem and Kansas City is at the center of it. At stake is a chunk of the league’s revenue and even its popularity. A bad move here or a mistake there and the whole thing begins to tumble.

You can see the problem in empty seats at Arrowhead Stadium, once the rockin’-est place in the NFL. You can hear it in the complaints about rising prices and a fumbling economy. And you can read about it all over the Internet.

The costs of attending an NFL game have never been higher, and the benefits of staying at home have never been greater. Those trends are conspiring to make the old business models of the Chiefs and other teams outdated.

The consequences are amplified because NFL teams keep local profits generated in their stadiums while sharing national revenue 32 ways. You might be interested to know that even while opening “new” Arrowhead Stadium with a team that won the AFC West, the Chiefs finished in the bottom quarter of local revenue.

The downside has never been more obvious than it is right now, with the league coming off a lockout and the Chiefs facing another week of trying to sell preseason tickets at regular-season prices.

You remember how that went over nine days ago, when coach Todd Haley essentially turned the first preseason game into a nationally televised conditioning drill for which fans paid full retail.

“If we learned anything from the last few years with the economy, it’s that you need to be adjusting your model as you go,” says David Carter, executive director of USC’s Sports Business Institute. “The market conditions have wreaked havoc on so many. If you’re not paying attention to what your consumers are looking for and what they’re going for, you’re setting yourself up for a problem.”

The Chiefs have a particular problem because a season ticket that used to be famously difficult to buy is now easily available, with operators standing by.

A team that used to sell out and fill Arrowhead even for losing teams now wages weekly fights against blackouts with a renovated stadium and playoff team.

The problem isn’t hard to isolate. The cost of attending a Chiefs game has risen 30 percent higher than inflation over the last 20 years, according to Team Marketing Report’s Fan Cost Index, which takes into account tickets, concessions, and other items.

Prices continue to rise even through a brutal economy. Struggling fans are literally asked to pay more with less — when there’s more to experience than ever before by paying nothing.

Chiefs officials wouldn’t talk in specifics for this column, but their cost hike is roughly in line with the rest of the league. Most ticket prices have been frozen or dropped the last few years, and they rank around league average in pricing. They were also aggressive over the summer in marketing and ranked first in the league in new season ticket sales.

Even so, this is a growing problem that has executives worried.

Dwindling crowds and increasing need to discount and package their tickets mean a decreasing value and demand for those seats. This is a cycle that feeds on itself, and the consumer ease of using secondary markets to purchase tickets only complicates matters.

The NFL is a $9 billion industry, so nobody’s going broke; the issue is a tectonic shift in how fans consume the product and, accordingly, in how teams must operate to remain competitive.

Publicly, the Chiefs will talk up the $375 million in renovations to Arrowhead as an improvement on the fan experience, but aside from wider concourses and the new Hall of Honor, virtually all of the major work was done on suites and other amenities for the kinds of fans more likely to wear Polo shirts than Jamaal Charles jerseys.

NFL attendance dropped for the third straight year in 2010, to its lowest point since 1998. The Chiefs routinely averaged around 75,000 through 2008; last year, they averaged 67,672, up by fewer than 200 tickets despite those renovations and a vastly improved team.

Through virtually every feedback avenue that exists, a growing and vocal portion of the fan base is complaining about the value and rising cost of going to Arrowhead.

Using the Team Marketing Report numbers, going to 10 games at Arrowhead Stadium would cost more than $3,500 for a family of four.

For that money, you can buy a 42-inch LCD television with surround sound, three leather home theater seats, the Sunday Ticket package to watch every game, and still have nearly $150 per week to spend on beer and food.

Which one sounds like the better deal?

Reasonable people can disagree, but the numbers indicate that more people are choosing technology and comfort at home.

Part of the problem is that while your man cave will never fully replicate the in-stadium experience, the in-stadium experience just can’t replicate your man cave. DVRs mean you control the replays, an Internet connection means you never have to wonder about a statistic or fact, and the remote means you can watch any game you want.

Cell service at stadiums during games is often terrible, and there’s a reason the Cowboys made two 60-yard-long high-definition video boards the centerpiece of their gorgeous new stadium. Take it as a sign that teams are feeling the need to play catch-up to what fans now enjoy at home.

Officials with the Chiefs and around the league have been reluctant to explore more aggressive in-stadium technology, such as personal tablets — the cost would be significant, and there is concern it could be a distraction and lessen the crowd’s energy.

The Chiefs are trying other strategies, things like value-pack ticket bundles, but like a lot of NFL teams, they’re in a tough spot. They depend on local revenues that they can keep but are watching their ability to generate that money sputter.

The only choices are to reverse the trend or adapt.

Technology isn’t going anywhere but forward, so the Chiefs — more than most teams — must adjust their business model accordingly.

CoMoChief
08-21-2011, 07:07 AM
Well you can look at the gold level and see that no one likes paying that kind of money to watch the Chiefs play football. Anyway I look at it, I think it's silly.

Those tickets used to be cheap enough to where almost anyone could get them. They were expensive, but not out of this world expensive like they are now. That section game after game looks like a ghost town, as does the upper-half section of the 300 sections (esp in December).

I don't see $Clark Hunt$, or any NFL owner for that matter, changing this anytime soon, unless attendance just hits a massive drop.

Marcellus
08-21-2011, 07:10 AM
Well you can look at the gold level and see that no one likes paying that kind of money to watch the Chiefs play football. Anyway I look at it, I think it's silly.

Those tickets used to be cheap enough to where almost anyone could get them. They were expensive, but not out of this world expensive like they are now. That section game after game looks like a ghost town, as does the upper-half section of the 300 sections (esp in December).

I don't see $Clark Hunt$, or any NFL owner for that matter, changing this anytime soon, unless attendance just hits a massive drop.

I was thinking the whole time, why does this just apply to the Chiefs?

As long as they are selling tickets, they aren't changing their business model.

How many games have we not sold out in the lat 20 years? 3?

Mile High Mania
08-21-2011, 07:12 AM
It won't change until fans decide to stay home and watch on TV... I've been out to the new Cowboys' stadium a few times and it's just incredibly too expensive. I'd love to take the kids (or the family) to a game, but we're talking huge $'s and that's just not happening.

Halfcan
08-21-2011, 07:15 AM
Wow 2 straight articles Bashing the Chiefs. Mellinger is sure not winning any fans at Arrowhead One.

Demonpenz
08-21-2011, 07:29 AM
America should spend more money on education and not watching athletes run around, maybe we wouldn't have a crap economy.

DaFace
08-21-2011, 07:39 AM
A journalist giving business model recommendations makes me chuckle.
Posted via Mobile Device

Deberg_1990
08-21-2011, 07:45 AM
I was thinking the whole time, why does this just apply to the Chiefs?

As long as they are selling tickets, they aren't changing their business model.

How many games have we not sold out in the lat 20 years? 3?

Well As Mellinger states, it's mainly the in stadium local revenue that's hurting. More and more no shows =less parking money, less concessions, beer and food revenue.

Deberg_1990
08-21-2011, 07:47 AM
A journalist giving business model recommendations makes me chuckle.
Posted via Mobile Device

Well hes not wrong? There have been threads created on here before about this very same subject.

Hydrae
08-21-2011, 07:50 AM
And these reasons are why the NFL should feel blessed with the huge television contract they have. It is giving them revenue from the format most fans are using today. I would say the league is adjusting just fine.

DaFace
08-21-2011, 08:00 AM
Well hes not wrong? There have been threads created on here before about this very same subject.

Yeah, but that's from a fan prospective, not a business model prospective.
Posted via Mobile Device

tmax63
08-21-2011, 08:00 AM
The war department is a big Broncos fan so we went last night to watch the Bills-Broncos. I could recon two teams that we play. Co-worker has season tickets and sold them to us for 1/2 of face value just trying to get something out of them since they couldn't go. With parking and 1 beer, 1 bag of peanuts, 1 pretzel, 1 lemonade and 1 coke we were out well over $100 for 2 people for a preseason game. The tickets were upper level endzone corner. Far enough up you couldn't read names and could only make out numbers if the player was "squared up" to me and I could see his whole back. I will still probably attend a game at Arrowhead some day, "bucket list" type thing, but I really don't care if I ever go to a stadium again.

Fried Meat Ball!
08-21-2011, 08:08 AM
A newspaper journalist giving business model recommendations makes me chuckle.
Posted via Mobile Device

FYP.

trndobrd
08-21-2011, 08:08 AM
A journalist giving business model recommendations makes me chuckle.
Posted via Mobile Device


Actually, he didn't give any recommendations. He just threw out some numbers and said they need to change.

If I understand correctly, the problem is that ticket prices have gone up over the last 20 years, it's nice to sit at home and watch a game and Chiefs executives wouldn't comment.

OK...so what's the solution? I've got an idea, if you are going to channel JWhit, make up a marginally clever nickname for someone and cry about the 'right 53'.

SNR
08-21-2011, 08:11 AM
A journalist giving business model recommendations makes me chuckle.
Posted via Mobile DeviceHeh. I chuckled.

TEX
08-21-2011, 08:12 AM
Sounds exactly like what I did. Big screen, surround sound, game room, NFL Sunday Ticket - I got it going on during football season. I can certainly see the argument that attending NFL games is way too expensive.

Okie_Apparition
08-21-2011, 08:53 AM
I'm not making a crack about Arrowhead playoff games. Why did he use 10 games to make his point? :shrug:

"Using the Team Marketing Report numbers, going to 10 games at Arrowhead Stadium would cost more than $3,500 for a family of four."

-preseason games....nevermind

jspchief
08-21-2011, 09:02 AM
I was thinking the whole time, why does this just apply to the Chiefs?

As long as they are selling tickets, they aren't changing their business model.

How many games have we not sold out in the lat 20 years? 3?
Kansas City does not have the corporate money to compete with cities like Dallas. Targeting a demographic that doesn't exist when you plot your renovation is a recipe for failure.

The Chiefs don't have the winning tradition that breeds the blue collar dedication that teams like the Steelers and Packers have.

Combine those 2 things and you end up with a franchise that's pricing itself out of its fanbase in an attempt to reach its profitability goals.

Bugeater
08-21-2011, 09:09 AM
And these reasons are why the NFL should feel blessed with the huge television contract they have. It is giving them revenue from the format most fans are using today. I would say the league is adjusting just fine.
They can't rely simply on television revenue to sustain their growth, there has to be a breaking point for what the networks and advertisers are willing to pay as well.

evenfall
08-21-2011, 09:12 AM
I thought it was sad last year that even with a competitive team the club level was always a ghost town. It makes the city look like crap on tv, like no one in town can afford the prime seats.

gblowfish
08-21-2011, 09:28 AM
A journalist giving business model recommendations makes me chuckle.
Posted via Mobile Device

I thought the same thing this AM while reading this story in my "reading room." Hell, the sunday comics in the Star are just 4 pages now, and you have to pay an extra 50 cents a week if you want the normal amount of comics you used to get as part of the subscription.

Strange days, indeed.

gblowfish
08-21-2011, 09:30 AM
I thought it was sad last year that even with a competitive team the club level was always a ghost town. It makes the city look like crap on tv, like no one in town can afford the prime seats.

A lot of the Gold Seat Crowd are just business weasels there to 'network' and sniff each others Johnson County rectums. They're up in the bar drinking bloody marys and talking about KU basketball. They could give a flip about the Chiefs, they're only attending for the face time factor. That's never going to change.

Mojo Jojo
08-21-2011, 09:57 AM
I was thinking the whole time, why does this just apply to the Chiefs?

As long as they are selling tickets, they aren't changing their business model.

How many games have we not sold out in the lat 20 years? 3?

First of all you are confusing the terms sell out and blackout. Misconception is you have to sell all your tickets to avoid the blackout. Truth is there is smaller number that the league will lift the black...I believe it's around 90% sold. Now that this into consideration...those tickets remaining to get past the blackout window do not have to be sold at full... the home team only has to promise to cover the NFL share on NFLPA share of the ticket. For the past 7 or 8 years on a very regular basis...Ch. 5 has bought a lot of these reduced tickets so they can show the game. Price Chopper/Hy-Vee, and sprint have all stepped up buying 1,000's of tickets to avoid blackouts. On a few occasions the Hunt family has used their own money to avoid a blackout. That's right...the Hunt's paid to have the game televised. Many teams fallowed the non-blackout business model for years, but have come to realize doing that was causing them to lose money. The Chiefs are one of only a few teams that still do this. So yes the Chiefs do need to change their business model and business plan.

CoMoChief
08-21-2011, 09:58 AM
I will say this, what the NFL can not afford to do IMO is let this get to a tipping point where fans just say that's enough, and decide they can't afford it anymore.

reason why is that the economy has a very good chance in completely crashing to a point where almost no one will go to these games, esp with everyone now watching games in HD in the comforts of their own home. You're starting to see it now. The article raises some good points IMO, to a degree.

The NFL is trying to squeeze as much as they can, because when things do go completely bad, they know not many people are going to come out. Right now we're seeing IMO the NFL reach the tip of that level, or threshold, on how much money Americans are willing to spend to go see an NFL game.

Deberg_1990
08-21-2011, 10:24 AM
. Many teams fallowed the non-blackout business model for years, but have come to realize doing that was causing them to lose money. The Chiefs are one of only a few teams that still do this. So yes the Chiefs do need to change their business model and business plan.

Exactly what i was trying to say in post #8. Obviously teams would rather people actually be there as opposed to just buying the tickets. No shows means alot less in game revenue which was the main point i think Mellinger was trying to make.

lcarus
08-21-2011, 10:29 AM
It won't change until fans decide to stay home and watch on TV... I've been out to the new Cowboys' stadium a few times and it's just incredibly too expensive. I'd love to take the kids (or the family) to a game, but we're talking huge $'s and that's just not happening.

Yep, because its so much more than just the price of admission, which is already bad enough.

Bugeater
08-21-2011, 10:34 AM
Yep, because its so much more than just the price of admission, which is already bad enough.
Eh, the ticket prices really don't bother me, the experience makes it worthwhile.

But an $8 beer? Fuck no, I can't justify that.

CaliforniaChief
08-21-2011, 10:44 AM
It's a good article. I found it interesting that the Chiefs were #1 in the league in new season ticket sales. That's a good sign.

Mellinger just makes the point that the landscape of the game is changing and so too, team's methods need to change.

lcarus
08-21-2011, 10:52 AM
Eh, the ticket prices really don't bother me, the experience makes it worthwhile.

But an $8 beer? **** no, I can't justify that.

Well I was talking about the Cowboys stadium, which I hear the prices are pretty outrageous. Not that I would ever go there unless the Chiefs were playing the Cowgirls.

boogblaster
08-21-2011, 10:53 AM
cheap seats for the loyal working fans wont change much .. yea the crust will attend when they want or when we have winning seasons .. just to be part of it .....

Mr. Laz
08-21-2011, 11:00 AM
Title is misleading ... it's NFL that needs to rethink their business model.

PunkinDrublic
08-21-2011, 11:33 AM
It won't change until fans decide to stay home and watch on TV... I've been out to the new Cowboys' stadium a few times and it's just incredibly too expensive. I'd love to take the kids (or the family) to a game, but we're talking huge $'s and that's just not happening.

I hate the Cowgirls and Jerry Jones so much I'll never spend a dime of my money to go to Jerry world even if they're playing the Chiefs.

Monty
08-21-2011, 11:40 AM
I hate the Cowgirls and Jerry Jones so much I'll never spend a dime of my money to go to Jerry world even if they're playing the Chiefs.

My dad is a cowboys fan and has the same rule. He went to the game in arrowhead a couple only because I paid for everything so he wouldn't violate the rule. He has serious hatred for JJ. He was also impressed with Arrowhead and the fans/tailgating.

With that being said I have no problem going to the stadium in Dallas. Those ppl have no clue about the gameday experience and we proved as much in 2005.

Just Passin' By
08-21-2011, 11:53 AM
I believe Goodell's already talked about this as a league-wide issue.

ChiefsCountry
08-21-2011, 12:15 PM
Its not just Kansas City. I was watching the Rams game last night and the dome wasn't full either.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2011, 12:17 PM
A journalist giving business model recommendations makes me chuckle.
Posted via Mobile Device

About the same as a message board GM giving NFL executives advices on players...

Rausch
08-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Its not just Kansas City. I was watching the Rams game last night and the dome wasn't full either.

It's fucking preseason.

THE END...

Mojo Jojo
08-21-2011, 12:24 PM
It's a good article. I found it interesting that the Chiefs were #1 in the league in new season ticket sales. That's a good sign.

Mellinger just makes the point that the landscape of the game is changing and so too, team's methods need to change.

I'll disagree with you about being #1 in new season ticket sales...that just means you have a lot of tickets available to sell, and have low renewal rates.

Chocolate Hog
08-21-2011, 12:28 PM
Its not just Kansas City. I was watching the Rams game last night and the dome wasn't full either.

Do the Rams even sell out during the regular season? St.Louis seems like a disinterested football town.

ForeverChiefs58
08-21-2011, 12:29 PM
I think Pioli's policy of cutting out the media and prefering to be more private has an affect as well. When fans can't get their info about their team from the local media, it fails to generate an early excitment and build up a hype for the team. When the local media has Chiefs news and hype, it gets the fans more excited and makes them more likely to go spend their money watching the team. It is the one thing Carl Peterson did extremely well. Just my opinion.

It then leaves the sports media to write about things like this instead of the team, and cling to any negative going on with the team because that is all the info that is out there.

Phobia
08-21-2011, 12:29 PM
I think the article is spot-on. Does this columnist have any business giving it? I don't know - it's probably relevent to his subject matter. Is the irony thick coming from print media? Absolutely.

But yeah, if I attend a game paying full boat for everything I'm taking a chunk out of my family's budget and it's just not worth that to me any longer. Love to watch the Chiefs and I really hope they win but I'm no longer in the Chiefs marketing target demographic and I accept that. It's hard to watch rookies who will never step foot on the field make in one year of riding the bench what I'm going to make in a decade. I'm not mad at them for making the most of their opportunity, good for them. But it's hard to see guys making that kind of money to play a game the rest of us have to pay in order to play.

Chiefaholic
08-21-2011, 12:48 PM
People who believe that Clark doesn't have a business plan are idiots. The family didn't become wealthy by dumb luck.

Phobia
08-21-2011, 12:51 PM
People who believe that Clark doesn't have a business plan are idiots. The family didn't become wealthy by dumb luck.

No? They were born into it? That's not dumb luck? There is not a single member of the Hunt family alive who acquired that vast wealth of their own volition.

Chiefaholic
08-21-2011, 12:59 PM
No? They were born into it? That's not dumb luck? There is not a single member of the Hunt family alive who acquired that vast wealth of their own volition.

You don't think the Hunt family had people who advised Lamar of profitable investments with his money? Once you get THAT much cash, you don't do much more than sign checks and let your financial advisers do their jobs.

kcfan82
08-21-2011, 01:00 PM
I gave up my season tickets a few years ago, which my dad has had since 86' and then turned over to me.

It's nothing related to being in a financial bind, but I'm no longer going to get robbed for $300+ for 2 preseason games and parking.

Not to mention I paid $80 plus per ticket for the entire season, and once the Chiefs started to go in the tank they were selling them at the window for $30-35. I don't remember getting a refund check for the difference.

Deberg_1990
08-21-2011, 01:21 PM
I think the article is spot-on. Does this columnist have any business giving it? I don't know - it's probably relevent to his subject matter. Is the irony thick coming from print media? Absolutely.

But yeah, if I attend a game paying full boat for everything I'm taking a chunk out of my family's budget and it's just not worth that to me any longer. Love to watch the Chiefs and I really hope they win but I'm no longer in the Chiefs marketing target demographic and I accept that. It's hard to watch rookies who will never step foot on the field make in one year of riding the bench what I'm going to make in a decade. I'm not mad at them for making the most of their opportunity, good for them. But it's hard to see guys making that kind of money to play a game the rest of us have to pay in order to play.

I think you make a good point. The NFL gameday experience is not really for " working families" anymore. The days of taking a family of 4 or 5 to a game are pretty much over. The owners are smart enough to know this. Me personally, I might go with a buddy or take one of my family members but not all.

Whatever the case, this story states they still averaged 67K in attendance last year. They probably wont make drastic changes unless it dropped into the 50-60K average.

Mr. Arrowhead
08-21-2011, 01:26 PM
I gave mine tickets i had for 5 years up this year and i am just going to buy single season seats, and so far it seems like a big bargin

Phobia
08-21-2011, 01:26 PM
You don't think the Hunt family had people who advised Lamar of profitable investments with his money? Once you get THAT much cash, you don't do much more than sign checks and let your financial advisers do their jobs.

"of their own volition"

Spott
08-21-2011, 01:30 PM
When it costs me about 200 dollars to see every game on my big screen TV all year long with the Sunday ticket, I really have almost no desire to see a game in person again. Getting gouged for tickets, parking, beer, etc. every year got old quick. Now I get to see way more than I would if I went to the game for less than the price that I used to pay just for the preseason tickets alone.

Phobia
08-21-2011, 01:35 PM
I think you make a good point. The NFL gameday experience is not really for " working families" anymore. The days of taking a family of 4 or 5 to a game are pretty much over. The owners are smart enough to know this. Me personally, I might go with a buddy or take one of my family members but not all.


But it never had to be like that. Greed has taken over the game. I'm all for somebody making a healthy profit. No problem at all with that. But these guys are nickeling and diming the last nickel and dime from consumers while compensating their coaches, players, and management well above anybody's standard of living all the while demanding public funds for facilities and various tax breaks for training camps and earnings taxes. Its easy to vote with your wallet and your hard-earned dollar but then when the whole thing fails you lose a favorite past-time. I don't want to lose NFL football but they're going to greed themselves right out of the market - both ownership and players. There is a finite amount individuals and companies are willing to pay for seats and sponsorships respectively. If they haven't already surpassed that margin they're very close to it.

I know a lawyer who does very, very well for himself - lives on a $1,000,000 acreage and he's bitching about paying for tickets.

CoMoChief
08-21-2011, 01:41 PM
This is the first season where I've looked only to sit in the upper deck.....haven't done that in I don't know how long.....but considering I've been able to purchase tickets for $25-$30 (section 310), and figure in parking (I carpool, but still $30 parking is ridiculous)..but paying to sit in the lower level just isn't worth it anymore.

KC native
08-21-2011, 01:43 PM
It won't change until fans decide to stay home and watch on TV... I've been out to the new Cowboys' stadium a few times and it's just incredibly too expensive. I'd love to take the kids (or the family) to a game, but we're talking huge $'s and that's just not happening.

You aren't lying. Cowgirls stadium is ridiculously fucking expensive. I haven't been to an actual cowgirls game, but I have seen a TCU game and took the family to monster truck show twice.

$9 beers. $7.50 nachos. Parking was north of $40 IIRC.

Arrowhead is expensive but not as bad as Jerry world.

Bearcat
08-21-2011, 01:48 PM
He's right, but I think it's funny he singled out the Chiefs, even though they have one of the best home schedules in years. A couple years ago I thought about buying season tickets this year, knowing they would play the NFC North and possibly have a 2nd place schedule or better. I didn't get season tickets, but I'm still going to 5 games.

That said, I have been concerned about the product on the field for a few years, and little things like paying a few more dollars every year for parking really annoy me, much less paying $90-100/ticket.

tboss27
08-21-2011, 02:10 PM
Chiefs are number 1 in new season ticket sales, and this journalist is concerned about their business model? I drive 13 hours round trip for every game. I realize I'm in the minority of people who would be willing to do that, but there are plenty of people in KC who are willing to shell out big bucks for Chiefs games. The NFL is a 9 billion dollar industry, pretty sure their business model is just fine.

Phobia
08-21-2011, 02:17 PM
I've been buying jerkey at a roadside shop halfway between Dallas and Houston for almost 20 years. I'm eating the last of my most recent trip there at this very moment. But the last time I spent $45 / lbs for their premium products, Elk and Buffalo. However, they just priced themselves out of the market. I can buy a whole lot of filet for that kind of money. I can buy Kobe for that. I won't be stopping there again. 20 years of frequent trips to that place. Thousands of dollars. But I'm done. It's over for them.

Phobia
08-21-2011, 02:18 PM
Chiefs are number 1 in new season ticket sales, and this journalist is concerned about their business model? I drive 13 hours round trip for every game. I realize I'm in the minority of people who would be willing to do that, but there are plenty of people in KC who are willing to shell out big bucks for Chiefs games. The NFL is a 9 billion dollar industry, pretty sure their business model is just fine.

Most teams keep their season ticket holders year to year. Misleading statistic. The Chiefs have pissed off so many STH that they have more cancellations and more opportunity to sell.

gblowfish
08-21-2011, 02:19 PM
I never buy any concessions at Arrowhead, except when it's really cold, might get a coffee. Never ever buy beer there. I can drink as much as I care to in the parking lot right before the game. So why pay $8 for a crappy beer when I can drink good stuff, and as much as I want, before I go in. Same with food. I can eat like a king at the tailgate, why pay $5 for a hot dog in the ballpark?

Bugeater
08-21-2011, 02:29 PM
I never buy any concessions at Arrowhead, except when it's really cold, might get a coffee. Never ever buy beer there. I can drink as much as I care to in the parking lot right before the game. So why pay $8 for a crappy beer when I can drink good stuff, and as much as I want, before I go in. Same with food. I can eat like a king at the tailgate, why pay $5 for a hot dog in the ballpark?
I've always been surprised by the number of morons that buy food in the stadium. It makes no damn sense at all.

Bearcat
08-21-2011, 02:29 PM
The NFL is a 9 billion dollar industry, pretty sure their business model is just fine.

It's like any business model... you want to make more money each season and keep growing. However, with skyrocketing salaries and ticket prices, how long can the NFL keep it up? Greed has caused the NFL to really over-reach its bounds. The article says NFL attendance has been down 3 years in a row. College football is gaining popularity, despite its flaws... and IMO, the game of CFB has at least stayed the same, if not gotten better, over the past few years, while the NFL, overall, is pretty mediocre.

KC native
08-21-2011, 02:29 PM
I never buy any concessions at Arrowhead, except when it's really cold, might get a coffee. Never ever buy beer there. I can drink as much as I care to in the parking lot right before the game. So why pay $8 for a crappy beer when I can drink good stuff, and as much as I want, before I go in. Same with food. I can eat like a king at the tailgate, why pay $5 for a hot dog in the ballpark?

This all the way. I've never been one to get food inside of Arrowhead. When it's cold, we sneak pints of crown in, buy a pop and we're good to go.

Phobia
08-21-2011, 02:49 PM
I've bought food in Arrowhead before but it's usually a $7 or 8 sandwich that normally costs $5 or 6 anyway. I don't mind paying a 30-40% markup inside a venue. But I'm not paying a 300% markup. Nope. Won't do that.

|Zach|
08-21-2011, 02:56 PM
I don't really drink much at all at games.

The last thing I want to be during a Chiefs game is drunk. I want to focus on the game.

I probably get some food about half the time or at least a soda almost ever time. Food isn't too bad.

Pawnmower
08-21-2011, 03:27 PM
I dunno...Call me simple minded but if the Chiefs start fielding respectable, consistently competitive teams that make the playoffs and win a playoff game once in a while, they will fill the stadium. Its kind of a no-brainer.....The stadium WILL rock if our team rocks.

Deberg_1990
08-21-2011, 03:56 PM
I've always been surprised by the number of morons that buy food in the stadium. It makes no damn sense at all.

not everybody tailgates or eats before they come in. I've seen games at three other NfL stadiums besides arrowhead and none of them had the tailgate experience even close to KC. So in my experience Kc is a little outside the norm.

Mojo Jojo
08-21-2011, 04:08 PM
I dunno...Call me simple minded but if the Chiefs start fielding respectable, consistently competitive teams that make the playoffs and win a playoff game once in a while, they will fill the stadium. Its kind of a no-brainer.....The stadium WILL rock if our team rocks.

Poor business thinking...it's that idea that drives teams into trouble business wise. The Packers were one of the worst teams in the NFL for years never had problems selling out or renewing tickets. The same can be said for the Steelers, Cowboys and Broncos. KC is an average sports town at best...fans come and go based only on record...it has always been true for the Chiefs, the Royals and even the Kings. I remember in 1985 I was able to buy 1st row seats in the upper deck to ACLS game number 3 two days before the game, and that game was on a Friday night...no excuses for those tickets to be available except this is KC. Winning is part of the formula, but no goos businessman would ever consider it a large part.

Count Zarth
08-21-2011, 05:26 PM
The Chiefs lead the league in new ticket sales. They did last year, anyway.

I'd say their business model is just fine.

Bearcat
08-21-2011, 05:28 PM
Poor business thinking...it's that idea that drives teams into trouble business wise. The Packers were one of the worst teams in the NFL for years never had problems selling out or renewing tickets. The same can be said for the Steelers, Cowboys and Broncos. KC is an average sports town at best...fans come and go based only on record...it has always been true for the Chiefs, the Royals and even the Kings. I remember in 1985 I was able to buy 1st row seats in the upper deck to ACLS game number 3 two days before the game, and that game was on a Friday night...no excuses for those tickets to be available except this is KC. Winning is part of the formula, but no goos businessman would ever consider it a large part.

Well, yes, convincing someone to buy your product, no matter how good it is or how much it sucks, is pretty brilliant. If I buy a Chevrolet, end up taking it in for service once every few months for 5 years, then buy another one, you could say the people at Chevrolet are brilliant businessmen.... or, you could say I'm a ****ing moron.

It's their job to convince me that I need to spend my entertainment dollars on football... this is the first time in years that I'm paying for more than a couple games, considering they have a competitive team, 2 prime time games, the defending champs coming to town, etc. Even with all that, I'm not surprised if others aren't convinced, or if they simply refuse to pay those prices. I'll see 14 college hockey games in Omaha this year and probably spend about as much money (or less) on getting there and back and seeing the games as I will on 5 Chiefs games.

Brock
08-21-2011, 05:36 PM
Poor business thinking...it's that idea that drives teams into trouble business wise. The Packers were one of the worst teams in the NFL for years never had problems selling out or renewing tickets. The same can be said for the Steelers, Cowboys and Broncos. KC is an average sports town at best...fans come and go based only on record...it has always been true for the Chiefs, the Royals and even the Kings. I remember in 1985 I was able to buy 1st row seats in the upper deck to ACLS game number 3 two days before the game, and that game was on a Friday night...no excuses for those tickets to be available except this is KC. Winning is part of the formula, but no goos businessman would ever consider it a large part.

This makes no sense. You appear to be saying KC's franchise owners shouldn't care about winning, and then turn around and say KC's fans come and go based on winning.

notorious
08-21-2011, 05:55 PM
I refuse to monetarily support an inferior product.


The Herm era was a pile of shit, and I didn't pay for the games. Does that make me a bad fan?

Bugeater
08-21-2011, 05:58 PM
The Chiefs lead the league in new ticket sales. They did last year, anyway.

I'd say their business model is just fine.
That's likely because they led the league in STHs bailing during the Herm era.

ChiefsCountry
08-21-2011, 06:11 PM
Country is also in flux with changing demographics. Baby boomers are getting older and aren't spending money on entertainment like they used to, Gen Y is just getting into the workforce and Gen X is smaller than both of those two.

PunkinDrublic
08-21-2011, 07:05 PM
I'm sitting in the upper level for the home opener. Got my ticket in the mail yesterday. I will have given plasma 4 times to pay for gas to drive up to KC for the game.

kcfan82
08-21-2011, 08:30 PM
That's likely because they led the league in STHs bailing during the end of the Carl Peterson era.

Fixed that for accuracy..

|Zach|
08-22-2011, 04:06 AM
I refuse to monetarily support an inferior product.


The Herm era was a pile of shit, and I didn't pay for the games. Does that make me a bad fan?

Bad fan?

No.

But I will say this...people who usually feel this way about the Chiefs get annoying. They love to let other people know that they won't pay for the games. Like the guy at the party who stands around bitching about how shitty the party is so everyone around him knows instead of just leaving.

Guru
08-22-2011, 04:31 AM
NOt going to the game isn't an answer either since they black it out locally AND on NFL Ticket.

Chiefshrink
08-22-2011, 08:23 AM
It won't change until fans decide to stay home and watch on TV... I've been out to the new Cowboys' stadium a few times and it's just incredibly too expensive. I'd love to take the kids (or the family) to a game, but we're talking huge $'s and that's just not happening.

:thumb:

Kinda like Washington. The DC elites vs. "We The People". There is a great divide because the DC elites refuse to enter into the real world of "We The People" and make stupid financial business decisions.

Likewise the NFL,owners,players give lip service to us "Joe Sixpacks" but their actions 'collectively together' from a business perspective say otherwise:rolleyes:

A 55" HD flatscreen, the NFL ticket, a tasty kitchen with much cheaper food, a convenient bathroom and no traffic or parking hassles in the long run is far less expensive than season tickets year after year. And that is the direction it is going as our economy continues to get worse.

L.A. Chieffan
08-22-2011, 08:24 AM
if you dont go the game and spend your money then your a socialist. hate to say it

PunkinDrublic
08-22-2011, 08:41 AM
Part of me is glad it's too expensive for someone to bring their family to a game. Now us single people with a little disposable income can feel free to cuss up a storm without some annoying douchebag telling us not to cuss in front of their kids.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 08:54 AM
Part of me is glad it's too expensive for someone to bring their family to a game. Now us single people with a little disposable income can feel free to cuss up a storm without some annoying douchebag telling us not to cuss in front of their kids.

Who is the douchebag in this scenario, exactly?

PunkinDrublic
08-22-2011, 08:58 AM
Who is the douchebag in this scenario, exactly?

It was a joke.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 08:58 AM
Someone who thinks their little brat's ears are sacred.

PunkinDrublic
08-22-2011, 09:02 AM
Someone who thinks their little brat's ears are sacred.

One time I had lower level tickets and this guy actually got offended for yelling Steelers suck.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 09:03 AM
Someone who thinks their little brat's ears are sacred.

I'm sorry, are you a father? There's absolutely no reason to swear like a sailor in front of ladies and children - none.

Brock
08-22-2011, 09:07 AM
I'm sorry, are you a father? There's absolutely no reason to swear like a sailor in front of ladies and children - none.

Oh, you know Clay would be as quiet as a mouse if somebody confronted him.

ChiefsCountry
08-22-2011, 09:08 AM
I'm sorry, are you a father? There's absolutely no reason to swear like a sailor in front of ladies and children - none.

I agree with this. The occassional damn, shit or hell during a game is okay but just full blown cussing throughout is pretty stupid IMO.

Reerun_KC
08-22-2011, 09:08 AM
Someone who thinks their little brat's ears are sacred.

You cant be serious with this crap?

If you started running your mouth like that, my 14 year old son would most likely abuse your soul right in front of everyone...

I would be embarrased for you...

Reerun_KC
08-22-2011, 09:09 AM
Oh, you know Clay would be as quiet as a mouse if somebody confronted him.

Very quiet...

He is a massive bullly behind his keyboard...

L.A. Chieffan
08-22-2011, 09:09 AM
word, i just cuss at home in front of my own kids

Rausch
08-22-2011, 09:09 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned but how long does the current deal last?...

Rausch
08-22-2011, 09:10 AM
word, i just cuss at home in front of my own kids

"And don't you ever say that, or I'll beat your fucking ass..."

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 09:19 AM
I'm sorry, are you a father? There's absolutely no reason to swear like a sailor in front of ladies and children - none.

LMAO

There's absolutely no reason not to, either.

If I want to express my opinion at a Chiefs game with a well-chosen f-bomb, I'll exercise that right.

You don't like it, don't bring your precious brats to the game. The other 75,000 people there aren't there to serve them a G-rated experience.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 09:26 AM
LMAO

There's absolutely no reason not to, either.

No, there are reasons. Respect. Dignity. Class.

If I want to express my opinion at a Chiefs game with a well-chosen f-bomb, I'll exercise that right.

You don't like it, don't bring your precious brats to the game. The other 75,000 people there aren't there to serve them a G-rated experience.
Hope you enjoy listening to the game from the parking lot because I'll ask once, nicely. The second time I'll exercise my right to have you removed from the stadium.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 09:27 AM
No, there are reasons. Respect. Dignity. Class.

Way to force your values on others there.


Hope you enjoy listening to the game from the parking lot because I'll ask once, nicely. The second time I'll exercise my right to have you removed from the stadium.

Yep...it's clear who the douchebag is here.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 09:29 AM
Yep...it's clear who the douchebag is here.
Indeed.

Reerun_KC
08-22-2011, 09:34 AM
No, there are reasons. Respect. Dignity. Class.


Hope you enjoy listening to the game from the parking lot because I'll ask once, nicely. The second time I'll exercise my right to have you removed from the stadium.

:clap:

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 09:41 AM
Indeed.

So how many times is it acceptable for someone to cuss during a game? Once a quarter? Twice a quarter? What are the rules of the new Arrowhead, Phil?

Tell us, please define the cussing ordinance of the new arrowhead, as defined by you, because the Chiefs certainly haven't made any rules against it.

Bearcat
08-22-2011, 09:44 AM
So how many times is it acceptable for someone to cuss during a game? Once a quarter? Twice a quarter? What are the rules of the new Arrowhead, Phil?

Tell us, please define the cussing ordinance of the new arrowhead, as defined by you, because the Chiefs certainly haven't made any rules against it.

The cheerleaders show up on the scoreboard and tell you not to...

Fans attending games are required to refrain from the following behaviors:
...
Foul or abusive language or obscene gestures


http://www.kcchiefs.com/arrowhead/stadium-policies.html

Reerun_KC
08-22-2011, 09:47 AM
The cheerleaders show up on the scoreboard and tell you not to...

Fans attending games are required to refrain from the following behaviors:
...
Foul or abusive language or obscene gestures


http://www.kcchiefs.com/arrowhead/stadium-policies.html

:cuss:

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 09:51 AM
Alright Phil, you win this round....but I am going to eat a pound of beans in the parking lot and gas your child into oblivion for daring to hold on to his aural innocence while he watches the glorification of violence.

Otter
08-22-2011, 09:55 AM
Start wining and fans will show up.

Simple.

We're well on that path from what I see.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 10:00 AM
Alright Phil, you win this round....but I am going to eat a pound of beans in the parking lot and gas your child into oblivion for daring to hold on to his aural innocence while he watches the glorification of violence.

My children won't be there. I'm smarter than that. I'll take them to preseason games until they're old enough to shrug off an F-bomb. But if there are children nearby I will still stand up for them politely to any offender.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 10:03 AM
But if there are children nearby I will still stand up for them politely to any offender.

LMAO

And you would alert stadium security on the behalf of someone else's child, without even knowing if they care, or if little Johnny calls Bobby bad words at school?

Phobia
08-22-2011, 10:08 AM
LMAO

And you would alert stadium security on the behalf of someone else's child, without even knowing if they care, or if little Johnny calls Bobby bad words at school?

No, because that truly would make me a douchebag. I understand it happens in schools. I actually attended school. I would try to get a sense for how the parent felt about you dropping F-bombs in front of their kid which is pretty easy to read based on body language. Then I would ask you to refrain, politely. Then if you continued I would alert security. Now, if you let one slip and displayed some sincere remorse then I would probably give you more than one second chance. I think you know that much based on how many chances you've had around here. But if you were a beligerent dickbag, I'd pull the trigger.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 10:09 AM
Phil is the Robin Hood of Arrowhead Stadium!

Phobia
08-22-2011, 10:14 AM
Phil is the Robin Hood of Arrowhead Stadium!

I don't find that to be an insult. I don't need to impress you or anybody else. I don't really care what you think about me.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 10:17 AM
I don't need to impress you or anybody else.

Sure you do...that's why you go around poking your nose into the business of complete strangers....when you could be watching the game right in front of you. But apparently you'd rather play morality cop...

Just make sure you don't tell any ladies to show their tits, I might have you thrown out.

Deberg_1990
08-22-2011, 10:27 AM
Phil is the Robin Hood of Arrowhead Stadium!

and your still the 30 year old stuck in Grandmas basement.

MahiMike
08-22-2011, 10:31 AM
The NFL doesn't know it yet, but it's at a bubble. For all the reasons mentioned here as well as these: 1) OVERSATURATION. There's just too much football on TV now. Heck, there's too much or everything on TV now. The NFL used to be special. To me it was at it's peak when you only got 3 games a weekend and 1 on Monday night. The only time you got highlights was Cosell's halftime. Now, even NFL Network itself lets you go live to all the games. 2) Technology has made our attention spans tiny. We simply can't watch ANYYHING for 3+ hours straight. My 13 y/o son has the laptop and is texting going at the same time we're watching. His generation knows nothing else than multi-tasking. 3) The networks are vying for NFL on mostly status now. It's not like the old days where there was the big 3. Now there's 5,000 channels. Their advertising dollars can't possibly be worth what they pay for the NFL. Once the bottom-line CEO's take over and cut the pool of $, the whole thing will tumble. Then we can all enjoy football at our local high school.

Oh, and if we see any more violence at stadiums other than Raiders idiots, you can go ahead and pop that bubble now.

Bearcat
08-22-2011, 10:49 AM
2) Technology has made our attention spans tiny. We simply can't watch ANYYHING for 3+ hours straight. My 13 y/o son has the laptop and is texting going at the same time we're watching. His generation knows nothing else than multi-tasking.

Commercials really hurt... college football on some channels seem to have fewer commercials, so I don't get as impatient, but the NFL (specifically CBS) is awful. It doesn't even matter if there are 2 or three other games on, because they're probably all at commercial, too. The only reason I watch live if I'm alone is to follow the game thread here, or else I'll set the DVR and watch it in 90 minutes. I used to not notice it at games, since there's enough stuff going on during commercials, but it's gotten so ridiculous that it's now annoying even when I'm there.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 01:05 PM
Sure you do...that's why you go around poking your nose into the business of complete strangers....when you could be watching the game right in front of you. But apparently you'd rather play morality cop...

Just make sure you don't tell any ladies to show their tits, I might have you thrown out.

I'm not running around looking for trouble but if somebody is behaving inappropriately in front of little kids, I'm going to call them on it - every time. I've had to ask my own friends to watch their language in front of kids. It's the right thing to do. I'm not asking you to be perfect because I'm certainly not perfect but if somebody takes offense to an off-color joke I've made I'm definitely not going to make it again out of respect to that person.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 01:09 PM
I've had to ask my own friends to watch their language in front of kids. It's the right thing to do.

You don't even realize your own arrogance....jesus christ.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 01:19 PM
You don't even realize your own arrogance....jesus christ.

Are we seriously debating this? Did you just accost me for my arrogance when you feel that swearing is so critical to your gameday experience that you'll do it in front of children, even when asked to stop politely? You have a warped sense of reality. You should probably know that about yourself by now. Accept it. Adjust. Move on. There's nothing you can say to convince me or any other reasonable person that you are entitled to swear in front of children, even when asked to stop.

|Zach|
08-22-2011, 02:21 PM
GoChiefs sense of social etiquette and norms has been completely off base for as long as I have known him.

Mojo Jojo
08-22-2011, 02:22 PM
Commercials really hurt... college football on some channels seem to have fewer commercials, so I don't get as impatient, but the NFL (specifically CBS) is awful. It doesn't even matter if there are 2 or three other games on, because they're probably all at commercial, too. The only reason I watch live if I'm alone is to follow the game thread here, or else I'll set the DVR and watch it in 90 minutes. I used to not notice it at games, since there's enough stuff going on during commercials, but it's gotten so ridiculous that it's now annoying even when I'm there.

That is a silly/unknowing comment. All NFL games have the same amount of TV time outs that last the same length...no network has more or less brakes. It is all the same.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 02:24 PM
GoChiefs send of social etiquette and norms has been completely off base for as long as I have known him.

But he won't hesitate to argue that the other guy is the douchebag. The thing that bugs me is that he KNOWS that he's a little off there. Maybe a lot off. But he still argues for his case when he knows that he's wrong. Little prick is probably just trolling me.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 02:41 PM
Did you just accost me for my arrogance when you feel that swearing is so critical to your gameday experience that you'll do it in front of children, even when asked to stop politely?

Yes.

It's not your place to tell complete strangers how to behave, just because you think you are a bastion of morality now.

FYI, swearing is not critical to my gameday experience, but sometimes Matt Cassel makes me say a bad word. That's not arrogance, that's the emotions of the game. There are far worse things being said and done on the field of play.

If you can't deal with it, and feel the need to play morality cop, you have some serious entitlement issues. Just because you think you have higher standards than everyone else does not entitle you to force them into behavior that you deem "appropriate."

Phobia
08-22-2011, 02:49 PM
Yes.

How's that for arrogance?

It's not your place to tell complete strangers how to behave, just because you think you are a bastion of morality now.

FYI, swearing is not critical to my gameday experience, but sometimes Matt Cassel makes me say a bad word. That's not arrogance, that's the emotions of the game. There are far worse things being said and done on the field of play.

If you can't deal with it, and feel the need to play morality cop, you have some serious entitlement issues. Just because you think you have higher standards than everyone else does not entitle you to force them into behavior that you deem "appropriate."

It's not for me. I don't care what you say or when you say it. Just don't say it in front of kids. Pretty simple policy commonly accepted across every demographic. I've always felt this way and behaved this way regardless of where I stand with religion.

Bearcat
08-22-2011, 02:49 PM
That is a silly/unknowing comment. All NFL games have the same amount of TV time outs that last the same length...no network has more or less brakes. It is all the same.

Eh, that wasn't the point at all, but for whatever reason it does seem like CBS does whatever it takes to go to commercial, while ESPN and even Fox will at least sometimes stick around after a punt or whatever, and won't jump to commercial without first confirming there isn't some reason to stick around.

They all suck, regardless of whether it's the same amount of suckage. I probably just notice it more with CBS since they obviously have all but couple Chiefs games every year (3 fewer this year with all the prime time PBJ ).

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 03:04 PM
Just don't say it in front of kids. Pretty simple policy commonly accepted across every demographic.

:rolleyes:

You're as bad as the idiot who complained about the behavior inside a hooters when he took his kid in for lunch.

Stand up for those poor innocent kids though, it will make your chest swell with pride.

zhawkz
08-22-2011, 03:44 PM
I've been to Hooters at several locations...what sort of behavior are you talking about? I guess I've never witnessed much outside of a normal bar and grill. Never seen or heard much that would been inappropriate for kids. As for the staff, well, you see that on a beach...not a big deal. But back to what is appropriate behavior at Arrowhead...

Look, in a public setting with mixed company, is it too much to ask we don't have the F-word screamed at the top of your lungs? You DON'T have an off button...really?

Listen, I'm no prude. Probably never went a 24 hour period in my adult life with lobbing 4 letter words around. But in a public setting with kids around, I don't think it's right to scream obscenities. Come on man, dial it down a notch. It's Arrowhead Stadium, not some adults only venue.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 08:34 PM
:rolleyes:

You're as bad as the idiot who complained about the behavior inside a hooters when he took his kid in for lunch.

Stand up for those poor innocent kids though, it will make your chest swell with pride.

Yeah, that's why I do it. It's all about me. Stop being a self-centered 15 year old, Clay. Honestly, I know you're not fat any more but you were within 5 years of being tolerable as a fat kid. Now I fear you have a decade or more.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 08:37 PM
I'm standing up for freedom of speech and the common man who has a right to call Matt Cassel a dumb motherfucker without someone getting up in his business. This has nothing to do with me. You're standing up for your own cockeyed value system. You are selfish and arrogant and think others should conform because PHIL IS RIGHT.

Phobia
08-22-2011, 08:56 PM
I don't have the gumption to even continue this. I feel like a complete idiot for responding more than once.

Count Zarth
08-22-2011, 09:14 PM
Tap out acknowledged. Concession accepted.

Guru
08-22-2011, 10:34 PM
Boy, this thread didn't get derailed at all did it?

|Zach|
08-23-2011, 12:35 AM
Tap out acknowledged. Concession accepted.

110k posts. And that is only a fraction. We have all acknowledged your tapping out of life outside of the internet for years.

Just Passin' By
08-23-2011, 12:42 AM
Two things:

One - Football viewing is gladiator watching, not an early Disney film exhibit. If your children are old enough to see grown men getting pummeled on a field and carted off with severe injuries, they are old enough to hear other people yell harsh language.

Two - If the NFL follows through on what S.F. is talking about doing, which is banning tailgating, the business model is going to take another hit.

|Zach|
08-23-2011, 12:44 AM
Two things:

One - Football viewing is gladiator watching, not an early Disney film exhibit. If your children are old enough to see grown men getting pummeled on a field and carted off with severe injuries, they are old enough to hear other people yell harsh language.

Two - If the NFL follows through on what S.F. is talking about doing, which is banning tailgating, the business model is going to take another hit.

That is one of the silliest most unconvincing things I have ever heard.

I don't even disagree with your premise but that was silly. NFL football is hard hitting and at times dangerous but it is also completely polished and not gritty in the least.

Just Passin' By
08-23-2011, 12:46 AM
That is one of the silliest most unconvincing things I have ever heard.

I don't even disagree with your premise but that was silly. NFL football is hard hitting and at times dangerous but it is also completely polished and not gritty in the least.

Yeah, that Joe Theisman experience (just to point to the most widely known example), and those times where they cart off the barely moving.... they're just glossy as all get out.

|Zach|
08-23-2011, 12:50 AM
Yeah, that Joe Theisman experience (just to point to the most widely known example), and those times where they cart off the barely moving.... they're just glossy as all get out.

How man years did you have to go back to pull that out of your ass?

You are equating certain brutal death to a polished packaged corporate sponsored hard hitting sport.

If the NFL is the coliseum then my walk outside this evening in my neighborhood was a climb to Mt Everest.

Just Passin' By
08-23-2011, 12:59 AM
How man years did you have to go back to pull that out of your ass?

You are equating certain brutal death to a polished packaged corporate sponsored hard hitting sport.

If the NFL is the coliseum then my walk outside this evening in my neighborhood was a climb to Mt Everest.

The number of years was the number of years. It's certainly not the most recent view of a bad injury or hit. It's the most widely known example of a bad injury that looked horrible on the screen, which is why I used it, as I expressly pointed out.

And don't give me this "You are equating..." bullshit. The equation of football players to gladiators has been made for a long time. And, again, football is not polished. Sorry to hurt your feelings by pointing that out. Maybe they'll add a yellow and red card soon, though, and let players pretend to be dead for 5 minutes, only to pop up in perfect health as soon as an opponent is ejected.



edit: Here, let me give you an example of someone else noting the equation:

These days, the term “gladiator” is bandied about with waggish bravado to hype the reckless courage and physical prowess needed for particular athletic endeavors. Ultimate fighters, football players, rugby players, and boxers all have earned the moniker “gladiator” because they engage in head-to-head athletic competition in which serious injury is a genuine risk and death a remote possibility.

The term harnesses the grit required to compete in the most physically demanding sports while capturing the glamour of the spectacle.

http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/consortium/gladiator7.html

Imagine that! Someone just used the words "gladiators" and "football players" together, and it's on a website about gladiators. You should really put a stop to that sort of thing.

|Zach|
08-23-2011, 01:07 AM
The number of years was the number of years. It's certainly not the most recent view of a bad injury or hit. It's the most widely known example of a bad injury that looked horrible on the screen, which is why I used it, as I expressly pointed out.

And don't give me this "You are equating..." bullshit. The equation of football players to gladiators has been made for a long time. And, again, football is not polished. Sorry to hurt your feelings by pointing that out. Maybe they'll add a yellow and red card soon, though, and let players pretend to be dead for 5 minutes, only to pop up in perfect health as soon as an opponent is ejected.



You want to equate sport with grizzly death to the polished sometimes dangerous game of the NFL then you are more than welcome to create that fantasy drama just like you created the idea that somehow anyone's feelings could be hurt by having this conversation.

Hey you just won the Superbowl what are you gonna do?

I AM GOING TO DISNEY WORLD!

This isn't some Disney film exhibit is it?

Just Passin' By
08-23-2011, 01:18 AM
You want to equate sport with grizzly death to the polished sometimes dangerous game of the NFL then you are more than welcome to create that fantasy drama just like you created the idea that somehow anyone's feelings could be hurt by having this conversation.

I'm not creating anything, you douche. I'm utilizing an oft-used comparison/equation/analogy.

Count Zarth
08-23-2011, 01:20 AM
One - Football viewing is gladiator watching, not an early Disney film exhibit. If your children are old enough to see grown men getting pummeled on a field and carted off with severe injuries, they are old enough to hear other people yell harsh language.


Not only this, but the violence is glorified to a ridiculous degree.

And kids love it. They eat that shit up. They want to go out and murder their opponents on the peewee field.

But it's really no different than the movie industry.

Violence in this movie? Guys getting shot, stabbed, killed, mutilated, murdered in cold blood, tortured and beaten? Eh, PG-13!

WAIT, DID YOU SAY "FUCK?" RATED R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PROTECT LITTLE TIMMY'S EARS!

A ridiculous double standard.

Pro football is the second most violent widely televised sport in the world behind rugby.

Just Passin' By
08-23-2011, 01:24 AM
Not only this, but the violence is glorified to a ridiculous degree.

And kids love it. They eat that shit up. They want to go out and murder their opponents on the peewee field.

But it's really no different than the movie industry.

Violence in this movie? Guys getting shot, stabbed, killed, mutilated, murdered in cold blood, tortured and beaten? Eh, PG-13!

WAIT, DID YOU SAY "****?" RATED R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PROTECT LITTLE TIMMY'S EARS!

A ridiculous double standard.

Pro football is the second most violent widely televised sport in the world behind rugby.

Apparently, all those tapes the NFL put out through the years showing the devastating hits were about polish and family. Segments like "Jacked up" on ESPN must be a way for fathers to show their sons and daughters how much they love them.

They're finding that these guys have brains that are permanently damaged because of all the violent hits that we've been seeing through the decades, but Zach wants to pretend that watching football is like watching a few minutes of a local chess match, and he's offended by the gladiator analogy.

Count Zarth
08-23-2011, 01:25 AM
Hey Timmy, cool hit, huh?

Hey Timmy, Leonard Marshall intentionally broke Joe's hand, holy shit, what a badass!

Oops, I said "ass." Forgive me, Timmy.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IZDSS9rw3x0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Count Zarth
08-23-2011, 04:47 AM
You want to equate sport with grizzly death

Why yes, I do.

http://www.alaskatrophyadventures.com/DSCN0200_006.jpg

Deberg_1990
08-23-2011, 06:51 AM
I pray for society that GoTurd isnt really like this in real life. I tend to believe his online personality is some kind of fantasy character that he can hide behind. I hope......