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Donger
09-05-2011, 08:55 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/opinion/dowd-one-and-done.html?src=me&ref=general

ONE day during the 2008 campaign, as Barack Obama read the foreboding news of the mounting economic and military catastrophes that W. was bequeathing his successor, he dryly remarked to aides: “Maybe I should throw the game.”

On the razor’s edge of another recession; blocked at every turn by Republicans determined to slice him up at any cost; starting an unexpectedly daunting re-election bid; and puzzling over how to make a prime-time speech about infrastructure and payroll taxes soar, maybe President Obama is wishing that he had thrown the game.

The leader who was once a luminescent, inspirational force is now just a guy in a really bad spot.

His Republican rivals for 2012 have gone to town on the Labor Day weekend news of zero job growth, using the same line of attack Hillary used in 2008: Enough with the big speeches! What about some action?

Polls show that most Americans still like and trust the president; but they may no longer have faith that he’s a smarty-pants who can fix the economy.

Just as Obama miscalculated in 2009 when Democrats had total control of Congress, holding out hope that G.O.P. lawmakers would come around on health care after all but three senators had refused to vote for the stimulus bill; just as he misread John Boehner this summer, clinging like a scorned lover to a dream that the speaker would drop his demanding new inamorata, the Tea Party, to strike a “grand” budget bargain, so the president once more set a trap for himself and gave Boehner the opportunity to dis him on the timing of his jobs speech this week.

Obama’s re-election chances depend on painting the Republicans as disrespectful. So why would the White House act disrespectful by scheduling a speech to a joint session of Congress at the exact time when the Republicans already had a debate planned?

And why is the White House so cocky about Obama as a TV draw against quick-draw Rick Perry? As James Carville acerbically noted, given a choice between watching an Obama speech and a G.O.P. debate, “I’d watch the debate, and I’m not even a Republican.”

The White House caved, of course, and moved to Thursday, because there’s nothing the Republicans say that he won’t eagerly meet halfway.

No. 2 on David Letterman’s Top Ten List of the president’s plans for Labor Day: “Pretty much whatever the Republicans tell him he can do.”

On MSNBC, the anchors were wistfully listening to old F.D.R. speeches, wishing that this president had some of that fight. But Obama can’t turn into F.D.R. for the campaign because he aspires to the class that F.D.R. was a traitor to; and he can’t turn into Harry Truman because he lacks the common touch. He has an acquired elitism.

MSNBC’s Matt Miller offered “a public service” to journalists talking about Obama — a list of synonyms for cave: “Buckle, fold, concede, bend, defer, submit, give in, knuckle under, kowtow, surrender, yield, comply, capitulate.”

And it wasn’t exactly Morning in America when Obama sent out a mass e-mail to supporters Wednesday under the heading “Frustrated.”

It unfortunately echoed a November 2010 parody in The Onion with the headline, “Frustrated Obama Sends Nation Rambling 75,000-Word E-Mail.”

“Throughout,” The Onion teased, “the president expressed his aggravation on subjects as disparate as the war in Afghanistan, the sluggish economic recovery, his live-in mother-in-law, China’s undervalued currency, Boston’s Logan Airport, and tort reform.”

You know you’re in trouble when Harry Reid says you should be more aggressive.

If the languid Obama had not done his usual irritating fourth-quarter play, if he had presented a jobs plan a year ago and fought for it, he wouldn’t have needed to elevate the setting. How will he up the ante next time? A speech from the space station?

Republicans who are worried about being political props have a point. The president is using the power of the incumbency and a sacred occasion for a political speech.

Obama is still suffering from the Speech Illusion, the idea that he can come down from the mountain, read from a Teleprompter, cast a magic spell with his words and climb back up the mountain, while we scurry around and do what he proclaimed.

The days of spinning illusions in a Greek temple in a football stadium are done. The One is dancing on the edge of one term.

The White House team is flailing — reacting, regrouping, retrenching. It’s repugnant.

After pushing and shoving and caving to get on TV, the president’s advisers immediately began warning that the long-yearned-for jobs speech wasn’t going to be that awe-inspiring.

“The issue isn’t the size or the newness of the ideas,” one said. “It’s less the substance than how he says it, whether he seizes the moment.”

The arc of justice is stuck at the top of a mountain. Maybe Obama was not even the person he was waiting for.

patteeu
09-05-2011, 09:59 AM
Very enjoyable. :D

BucEyedPea
09-05-2011, 10:30 AM
Polls show the ratings of Congress are still lower than his and none of the R candidates being a slam dunk in beating him. The closest that comes to him, which is basically a tie, is Ron Paul even if it's too early.

patteeu
09-05-2011, 11:21 AM
Polls show the ratings of Congress are still lower than his and none of the R candidates being a slam dunk in beating him. The closest that comes to him, which is basically a tie, is Ron Paul even if it's too early.

Polls showed that ratings of Congress were lower than GWBush when Obama won with an "I'm not Bush" campaign in 2008.

Donger
09-05-2011, 11:29 AM
Polls show the ratings of Congress are still lower than his and none of the R candidates being a slam dunk in beating him. The closest that comes to him, which is basically a tie, is Ron Paul even if it's too early.

Errr, no. Both Perry and Romney poll closer to Obama than does Ron Paul.

Chocolate Hog
09-05-2011, 11:37 AM
Errr, no. Both Perry and Romney poll closer to Obama than does Ron Paul.

This is factually incorrect. Perry doesn't even beat Obama in Texas. Romney however does poll the best out of any Republican. Paul is second.

Donger
09-05-2011, 11:38 AM
This is factually incorrect. Perry doesn't even beat Obama in Texas. Romney however does poll the best out of any Republican. Paul is second.

I didn't say that Perry beats Obama. I said that Romney and Perry are closer to Obama than Ron Paul.

So, no, you are incorrect.

BucEyedPea
09-05-2011, 11:52 AM
This is factually incorrect. Perry doesn't even beat Obama in Texas. Romney however does poll the best out of any Republican. Paul is second.

There's been two polls that show Paul is behind Obama by the least amount. I've linked them in this forum several times. One was by CNN.
Further, Paul is beating Perry in polls for Texas—the state that knows the most about Perry.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-05-2011, 11:52 AM
I didn't say that Perry beats Obama. I said that Romney and Perry are closer to Obama than Ron Paul.

So, no, you are incorrect.

Wrong, Polls show Paul and Obama about even.

BucEyedPea
09-05-2011, 11:55 AM
Wrong, Polls show Paul and Obama about even.

which is due to Paul carrying the Independents. Something the right refuses to see as well as how much their promoting more war is part of this election. Paul just doesn't carry the partisans and certainly not any Neo Cons.

Donger
09-05-2011, 12:11 PM
Wrong, Polls show Paul and Obama about even.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/president_obama_vs_republican_candidates.html

Saul Good
09-05-2011, 02:23 PM
Polls show the ratings of Congress are still lower

Why do people keep parroting this crap? Congress's ratings will always be lower because people didn't vote for 98% of the people in Congress. People like their own Congressmen. They hate everyone else's. If you want an apples-to-apples comparison, look at the approval ratings of Congresspeople in their own districts, not nationally. Those ratings are going to be well above Obama's national approval.

HonestChieffan
09-05-2011, 02:34 PM
Salon, one of the Obot Fav sites, ran a scathing look at the Failure in Chief. They of course spin it in a rather odd fashion, but the message is not lost....even the hardline Dem is having a hard time seeing any positive form the administration

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/09/04/favoritesonsanddaughters

BucEyedPea
09-05-2011, 02:42 PM
Why do people keep parroting this crap?

Not quite...your camp liked using the same argument when the Ds were in power.
People are disgusted with both parties. When is that going to sink in.

Saul Good
09-05-2011, 02:58 PM
Not quite...your camp liked using the same argument when the Ds were in power.
People are disgusted with both parties. When is that going to sink in.

Making bullshit comparisons does nothing to prove your point. 90% of people might hate their neighbors' dogs, but that doesn't mean that dogs aren't popular.

BucEyedPea
09-05-2011, 03:05 PM
Making bullshit comparisons does nothing to prove your point. 90% of people might hate their neighbors' dogs, but that doesn't mean that dogs aren't popular.

BWHAAAA!

HonestChieffan
09-05-2011, 04:26 PM
Making bullshit comparisons does nothing to prove your point. 90% of people might hate their neighbors' dogs, but that doesn't mean that dogs aren't popular.

NeoDogs

BucEyedPea
09-05-2011, 04:45 PM
NeoDogs

BWHAAAA!

alnorth
09-05-2011, 05:26 PM
Why do people keep parroting this crap? Congress's ratings will always be lower because people didn't vote for 98% of the people in Congress. People like their own Congressmen. They hate everyone else's. If you want an apples-to-apples comparison, look at the approval ratings of Congresspeople in their own districts, not nationally. Those ratings are going to be well above Obama's national approval.

The poll is not irrelevant, taken into proper context. There is a "baseline" unpopularity amount that is basically normal. When it goes significantly above or below that baseline, it is meaningful.

If the popularity creeps up to about 50/50 where the people are saying "meh, they are OK, I guess", that is wildly good news for incumbents. When the people believe that congress is the collective incarnation of the antichrist, that is great news for challengers.

Psyko Tek
09-05-2011, 06:04 PM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/president_obama_vs_republican_candidates.html

yeah but what's the over/under on points, uummm, people showing up?

Psyko Tek
09-05-2011, 06:05 PM
Why do people keep parroting this crap? Congress's ratings will always be lower because people didn't vote for 98% of the people in Congress. People like their own Congressmen. They hate everyone else's. If you want an apples-to-apples comparison, look at the approval ratings of Congresspeople in their own districts, not nationally. Those ratings are going to be well above Obama's national approval.

my district is recalling ours ( az) yeah it's just an in state thing

Saul Good
09-05-2011, 07:40 PM
The poll is not irrelevant, taken into proper context. There is a "baseline" unpopularity amount that is basically normal. When it goes significantly above or below that baseline, it is meaningful.

If the popularity creeps up to about 50/50 where the people are saying "meh, they are OK, I guess", that is wildly good news for incumbents. When the people believe that congress is the collective incarnation of the antichrist, that is great news for challengers.

It means nothing vis a vis Obama's approval numbers. Approval numbers in home states/districts are what matter. My opinion on Nancy Pelosi does not impact her re-election chances because I don't live in her district. Her national approval is 31%, but her seat is safe because her constituents are idiots. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_favorability_ratings

If anything, Obama's popularity impacts the Dems running further down the ticket. If people aren't enthusiastic about voting for Obama, that means less Dems will show up to vote for the (D) Congressmen.

BucEyedPea
09-05-2011, 09:26 PM
It means nothing vis a vis Obama's approval numbers. Approval numbers in home states/districts are what matter. My opinion on Nancy Pelosi does not impact her re-election chances because I don't live in her district. Her national approval is 31%, but her seat is safe because her constituents are idiots. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_favorability_ratings

If anything, Obama's popularity impacts the Dems running further down the ticket. If people aren't enthusiastic about voting for Obama, that means less Dems will show up to vote for the (D) Congressmen.

What I am trying to tell you, without being a partisan, is that polls consistently show a sizable majority of people in this country think the country is on the wrong track. The same thing showed under Bush, particularly under his second term. That means there is some disaffection for both parties...not necessarily how they voted or will vote.

For instance I voted for a progressive Democrat in 2006 but it was a protest vote against the Bush Rs. But then I voted for the R in 2008 to counter Obama winning and again in 2010. That doesn't mean I am satisfied or happy. Far from it! I suspect it's the same with others too. Capisce ?

vailpass
09-06-2011, 08:32 AM
my district is recalling ours ( az) yeah it's just an in state thing

The Pearce recall vote is not the same as what Saul mentions. Pearce is a case of the illegal sympathizers here acting out due to the tough stance on illegals that they don't like.
Let's see how the vote goes between these whacky mormon candidates.

KC native
09-06-2011, 10:01 AM
The Pearce recall vote is not the same as what Saul mentions. Pearce is a case of the illegal sympathizers here acting out due to the tough stance on illegals that they don't like.
Let's see how the vote goes between these whacky mormon candidates.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with him being a racist pos with neonazi ties :rolleyes:

Donger
09-06-2011, 10:10 AM
I'm sure it has nothing to do with him being a racist pos with neonazi ties :rolleyes:

Awesome. So I presume that you are fine with a recall of Obama, too?

KC native
09-06-2011, 10:23 AM
Awesome. So I presume that you are fine with a recall of Obama, too?

Go troll somewhere else.

Donger
09-06-2011, 10:28 AM
Go troll somewhere else.

It's okay. I realize that certain forms of racism are totally acceptable to some.

Calcountry
09-06-2011, 10:52 AM
Why do people keep parroting this crap? Congress's ratings will always be lower because people didn't vote for 98% of the people in Congress. People like their own Congressmen. They hate everyone else's. If you want an apples-to-apples comparison, look at the approval ratings of Congresspeople in their own districts, not nationally. Those ratings are going to be well above Obama's national approval.I hate the Senate, it is part of "the congress". Duh.

Jaric
09-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Salon, one of the Obot Fav sites, ran a scathing look at the Failure in Chief. They of course spin it in a rather odd fashion, but the message is not lost....even the hardline Dem is having a hard time seeing any positive form the administration

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/09/04/favoritesonsanddaughters

Ouch.

Jaric
09-06-2011, 11:03 AM
Why do people keep parroting this crap? Congress's ratings will always be lower because people didn't vote for 98% of the people in Congress. People like their own Congressmen. They hate everyone else's. If you want an apples-to-apples comparison, look at the approval ratings of Congresspeople in their own districts, not nationally. Those ratings are going to be well above Obama's national approval.

I long for the day that incumbent re-election rates mirror those of congressional satisfaction.

However, they don't because of what you've said here.

Calcountry
09-06-2011, 12:09 PM
Not quite...your camp liked using the same argument when the Ds were in power.
People are disgusted with both parties. When is that going to sink in.When are people going to look in the mirror.

vailpass
09-06-2011, 02:28 PM
"Polls show that most Americans still like and trust the president;"

Huh? Where was that poll taken? Sure as hell wasn't in my neck of the woods.

HonestChieffan
09-06-2011, 02:41 PM
Obama hits all-time lows, according to NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.....Ouch....again.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44401295/ns/politics/#.TmaD5nOrVvk


Gonna take more than blame everything and promises of unicorns and flying monkeys to bring him back. Now that he and Jimmy War on the sonobitches Hoffa have teamed up...we see where he stands on bringing people together. Turn up the class and race issues....civility? Right.