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Pants
09-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Pete Sampson

Post #19376
South Bend, IN
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Re: ND to Big 12? Reply

________________________________________
I have heard this, although a slightly different version.

What I've heard on this front is that the Big 12 would add BYU, TCU, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati, thereby killing the Big East in its current version as a football conference. The Big 12 would then invite Notre Dame into the league for its applicable olympic sports but football would remain independent. The Big 12 would then be at 14 schools and Notre Dame would agree to a situation similar to what Kevin White agreed to with the Big East in football, basically that Notre Dame play three Big 12 teams per year. Don't be surprised if Notre Dame changes up its Thanksgiving week routine and Texas becomes an annual series there, replacing the Longhorns game with Texas A&M. That's the hope from Texas at least.

With Notre Dame a partial member of the Big 12 at 14 schools, Notre Dame would have the first right of refusal to join in full with football should the next conference realignment step force Notre Dame into a football conference, i.e. suddenly there are four 16-team super conferences and break away from the NCAA. That doesn't mean Notre Dame would be locked into the Big 12, but they'd at least have a foot in the door there.

Pete Sampson
Editor - Irish Illustrated
psampson@rivals.com


Fuck yeah, sounds good to me. Let's get this thing over with.

Raiderhader
09-30-2011, 02:14 PM
Pete Sampson

Post #19376
South Bend, IN
MyFanPage
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Re: ND to Big 12? Reply

________________________________________
I have heard this, although a slightly different version.

What I've heard on this front is that the Big 12 would add BYU, TCU, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati, thereby killing the Big East in its current version as a football conference. The Big 12 would then invite Notre Dame into the league for its applicable olympic sports but football would remain independent. The Big 12 would then be at 14 schools and Notre Dame would agree to a situation similar to what Kevin White agreed to with the Big East in football, basically that Notre Dame play three Big 12 teams per year. Don't be surprised if Notre Dame changes up its Thanksgiving week routine and Texas becomes an annual series there, replacing the Longhorns game with Texas A&M. That's the hope from Texas at least.

With Notre Dame a partial member of the Big 12 at 14 schools, Notre Dame would have the first right of refusal to join in full with football should the next conference realignment step force Notre Dame into a football conference, i.e. suddenly there are four 16-team super conferences and break away from the NCAA. That doesn't mean Notre Dame would be locked into the Big 12, but they'd at least have a foot in the door there.

Pete Sampson
Editor - Irish Illustrated
psampson@rivals.com


I would be all for that. However it seems something akin to a pipe dream to me.

HemiEd
09-30-2011, 02:21 PM
the issue isn'treally football and basketball, it's all the non-revenue sports - baseball, lacrosse, soccer, volleyball, wbb, etc that would be costly to travel great distances.

Wow, that is the first post I have seen mentioning this. That would be a big deal

KChiefs1
09-30-2011, 02:34 PM
Kietzman just doesn't get it or he is trying to save his Wildcats from oblivion.

Setsuna
09-30-2011, 03:04 PM
The Big XII can have WVU. Their fans are worse than Philly fans and Steelers fans.

Pitt Gorilla
09-30-2011, 03:21 PM
**** yeah, sounds good to me. Let's get this thing over with.It sounds horrible. MU really needs to GTFO.

|Zach|
09-30-2011, 03:49 PM
Pete Sampson

Post #19376
South Bend, IN
MyFanPage
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Re: ND to Big 12? Reply

________________________________________
I have heard this, although a slightly different version.

What I've heard on this front is that the Big 12 would add BYU, TCU, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati, thereby killing the Big East in its current version as a football conference. The Big 12 would then invite Notre Dame into the league for its applicable olympic sports but football would remain independent. The Big 12 would then be at 14 schools and Notre Dame would agree to a situation similar to what Kevin White agreed to with the Big East in football, basically that Notre Dame play three Big 12 teams per year. Don't be surprised if Notre Dame changes up its Thanksgiving week routine and Texas becomes an annual series there, replacing the Longhorns game with Texas A&M. That's the hope from Texas at least.

With Notre Dame a partial member of the Big 12 at 14 schools, Notre Dame would have the first right of refusal to join in full with football should the next conference realignment step force Notre Dame into a football conference, i.e. suddenly there are four 16-team super conferences and break away from the NCAA. That doesn't mean Notre Dame would be locked into the Big 12, but they'd at least have a foot in the door there.

Pete Sampson
Editor - Irish Illustrated
psampson@rivals.com

Mizzou baby is skeptical.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/308236_942877259594_34305085_42853092_882527202_n.jpg

KChiefs1
09-30-2011, 04:05 PM
Which means you raise ticket prices. No need to expand the stadium, IMO.

Hell, I'm not even that big of a CFB fan, but if Mizzou moved to the SEC and had the likes of Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, etc on their home schedule, you bet your ass I'm making the trip to Columbia a few times.

I'm not wasting my time/money to see ISU/KSU/KS, etc.

If Missouri does indeed move to the SEC, expect a push for some upgrades to the football facilities. Memorial Stadium doesn't have the same "wow factor" that's standard around the SEC. Same goes for the team's indoor practice facility. If fans want the Tigers to play with the big boys of the SEC, they might have to buck up and pay for some new trimmings, too.

|Zach|
09-30-2011, 04:15 PM
If Missouri does indeed move to the SEC, expect a push for some upgrades to the football facilities. Memorial Stadium doesn't have the same "wow factor" that's standard around the SEC. Same goes for the team's indoor practice facility. If fans want the Tigers to play with the big boys of the SEC, they might have to buck up and pay for some new trimmings, too.

Wah? Their indoor athletics complex is amazing.

DJ's left nut
09-30-2011, 05:10 PM
Wah? Their indoor athletics complex is amazing.

It's one of the best in the nation.

But hey, it's not SEC so it must suck, right?

|Zach|
09-30-2011, 05:14 PM
It's one of the best in the nation.

But hey, it's not SEC so it must suck, right?

One of my photos was used to design the complex so obviously it is incredible. :)

I don't really understand what kcchiefs1 is basing this one.

vailpass
09-30-2011, 05:14 PM
I would be all for that. However it seems something akin to a pipe dream to me.

Ya' think?

KcMizzou
09-30-2011, 05:39 PM
Damn, Clay Travis at Outkick The Coverage has just been killing it on the SEC expansion storyline. If any Mizzou fan isn't reading him by now you should be.

http://outkickthecoverage.com/reality-there-are-no-barriers-to-missouri-in-sec.php

5. So what needs to happen for Missouri to join the SEC?
Just follow Texas A&M's roadmap.

Give your leaders the authority to explore conference options, then divorce from the Big 12, then accept the SEC's offer.

It's as simple as one, two, three. Do that Mizzou, and welcome to the SEC.
SEC presidents are thrilled with your academics, you'll fit in well athletically, and the SEC Network is about to make it rain down money.

If Missouri wants to join the SEC, it's barriers to entry are minimal. OKTC told y'all nearly a month ago that Missouri was the SEC's 14th. Now I'm telling you this, it's close to fruition if the Mizzou fans keep up the push to go South. Awesome. Let's do this.

KcMizzou
09-30-2011, 05:41 PM
SEC people sure do use "y'all" a lot. Even online.

Chocolate Hog
09-30-2011, 05:45 PM
Wah? Their indoor athletics complex is amazing.

Why'd you take the Chiefs out of your avatar?

LiveSteam
09-30-2011, 05:45 PM
Why'd you take the Chiefs out of your avatar?

Band Wagon

DaKCMan AP
09-30-2011, 05:45 PM
SEC people sure do use "y'all" a lot. Even online.

Y'all got a problem with that?

LiveSteam
09-30-2011, 05:47 PM
SEC people sure do use "y'all" a lot. Even online.

Ya all come back,if ya-aun-to.
Is that 1 word or 2 or maybe its 3

vailpass
09-30-2011, 05:51 PM
Y'all got a problem with that?

Bless your little heart.

|Zach|
09-30-2011, 05:58 PM
Why'd you take the Chiefs out of your avatar?

Not a big fan of the whole organization right now.

Saulbadguy
09-30-2011, 06:01 PM
If Missouri does indeed move to the SEC, expect a push for some upgrades to the football facilities. Memorial Stadium doesn't have the same "wow factor" that's standard around the SEC. Same goes for the team's indoor practice facility. If fans want the Tigers to play with the big boys of the SEC, they might have to buck up and pay for some new trimmings, too.

What an idiot.

Setsuna
09-30-2011, 06:06 PM
Florida doesn't even have an indoor practice facility so it ain't that important. Though I'd like them to have one.

KcMizzou
09-30-2011, 07:26 PM
Good read from Dave Matter... (no new info, just a good read)

What's the latest on Missouri's conference situation? Glad you asked. It's crunch time for the Big 12. New interim Commissioner Chuck Neinas is coming out of the bullpen to try and save the Tigers from leaving. I'm told Neinas will be making pit stops to all the Big 12 campuses in the next few weeks and his first stop will be Columbia early next week. On a conference call with reporters Wednesday, Neinas was asked about his sales pitch to Missouri. Here's what he said:

"I had a very interesting conversation with Andy Coats, dean emeritus of the Oklahoma law school and lead attorney for Oklahoma and Georgia when those schools sued the NCAA in 1984 and won an anti-trust decision. He pointed out that if Oklahoma had gone to the Pac-12 that the school would play games on the West Coast but the big loser would have been the state of Oklahoma. He asked would the Pac-12 baseball tournament be played in Oklahoma City, would the Pac-12 basketball tournament be played in Oklahoma City. He said the citizens of Oklahoma would have lost out on a number of events. Missouri would lose the rivalry with Kansas. And where's the Big 12 basketball tournament? Kansas City. Where are Missouri's roots? The Missouri Valley Conference, that became the Big Six and the Big Eight. There's always a pretty girl who walks down the aisle and you'd like to take her to the prom but there's also that girl who is tried and true you know is going to be there."

In his analogy, the SEC is clearly the pretty girl and the Big 12 is the "tried and true" sure thing. Halloween is about a month away, so I'm going to put on my devil's (advocate) mask: Neinas might have miscast his two gals. Three members have parted ways in a span of 15 months. A week ago, the two powerbrokers in the Big 12 had their foot out the door and were headed west — until Larry Scott put out the "No vacancies" sign. Last Thursday, the Big 12 fired the commissioner who pushed for many of the reforms that are now being seen as last-ditch efforts to salvage the league. Then, on a conference call between Big 12 CEOs, they couldn't even agree on what they agreed on, after which one school president upstaged the league's chairman/appointed spokesman with a press conference 15 minutes before the press conference that was supposed to announce what came out of the conference call. I haven't covered the SEC, so I can't accurately describe its inner workings or political culture. But maybe "tried and true" isn't the best way to describe the Big 12 after all the backstabbing and scapegoating that's gone on the last few years/months/weeks/days.

Sad, isn't it? A few months ago I was at an antique mall with my wife trying my best to avoid decisions about which china cabinet would look best in the dining room and instead wandered into the book section. I found John D. McCallum's "Big Eight Football: The story, the stars, the stats of America's toughest conference." It was a near mint condition of the 1979 hardbound book, which reads like a love letter to the conference's glory days. It's a shame the last few years have barfed all over a time that once inspired these words, words that seem beyond nostalgic:

"Forget all that stuff about Princeton and Rutgers and the first college game in 1869. In the land of the pickup truck and cream gravy for breakfast — down there in the old dirt-kicking Big Eight territory — the natives think they invented football. And they believe with a passion that their big ol' boys play tackle better than anywhere else in the world. Why, football out there is bigger than cowboy boots and the Stetson hat — it's bigger than country music — bigger even than the girls. … Tradition and rivalry are words that belong almost exclusively to the vernacular of college football. Old as the two words are, they are irreplaceable, for it is what they suggest that specifically separates the college game from that of the professionals. Sophisticates with their double drag-outs and their post-and-gos may not like it, but college football is Nebraska playing Missouri with the Big Eight championship hinging on the outcome. It is also a street brawl in downtown Dallas the night before Oklahoma plays Texas, and Colorado students stealing the Kansas mascot. … Out in the corn belt they grow them bigger, stronger, and tougher. In his Civil War memoirs, General William T. Sherman pointed out that though the Southerners usually beat the Easterners on the battlefield, it was the hard-bitten farm boys from what is today Big Eight territory who broke the back of the Confederacy. 'Our corn belt pioneers had not forgotten how to use their legs,' General Sherman said. 'They could really march.' "

Now, those were the days when Missouri and its conference roots were tried and true. Those words were written in 1979, but that era seems so ancient, they might as well have been chiseled on a cave thousands of years ago. Those were Nebraska's roots, too, but the Huskers now have their first Big Ten game Saturday at Wisconsin and 30,000 NU fans are expected to make the trip to Madison. That experience might not feel very tried for the Sea of Red, but I bet it feels true … especially with the Big 12's machinations well behind them.

http://ht.ly/6JXed

HolyHandgernade
10-01-2011, 12:47 AM
What an idiot.

Speaking of idiots, what is it with you and the neg rep button? I actually gave your football team a compliment and you neg repped me for it? Then you call another one a "shit post" that did nothing but speculate like everyone else on this thread you created. Did I wrong you in some fashion? I guess if I'm going to garner all this ill will from you, I'm going to start getting my money's worth from it.

So, answer the question, are you a complete moron or do you just play one on this message board?

Chocolate Hog
10-01-2011, 01:09 AM
Speaking of idiots, what is it with you and the neg rep button? I actually gave your football team a compliment and you neg repped me for it? Then you call another one a "shit post" that did nothing but speculate like everyone else on this thread you created. Did I wrong you in some fashion? I guess if I'm going to garner all this ill will from you, I'm going to start getting my money's worth from it.

So, answer the question, are you a complete moron or do you just play one on this message board?

This response sucks.

HolyHandgernade
10-01-2011, 01:21 AM
This response sucks.

So does your mom. But, you've probably heard that too much in your past as well.

Chocolate Hog
10-01-2011, 01:28 AM
Your mom is the Houdini of all things rectal. Your response still sucks.

HolyHandgernade
10-01-2011, 01:30 AM
Your mom is the Houdini of all things rectal. Your response still sucks.

What, she escapes from them? Sportin' that big "N" for Nowledge again?

HolyHandgernade
10-01-2011, 01:32 AM
True Story. In 3rd grade, each of my son's classmates were assigned a state to learn about. He got Nebraska. Summed it up with: "Nebraska seems like a boring state and I hope I never have to visit there."

That's when I knew my son was genius.

Chocolate Hog
10-01-2011, 01:34 AM
What, she escapes from them? Sportin' that big "N" for Nowledge again?

No, she can jam half a dozen objects into her hershey highway re-arrange them internally then shit them back out in a different order.

Still supporting those domestic terrorist without a conference to go to?

HolyHandgernade
10-01-2011, 01:37 AM
No, she can jam half a dozen objects into her hershey highway re-arrange them internally then shit them back out in a different order.

And that relates to Houdini how? You're not very good at this analogy thing are you?

KcMizzou
10-01-2011, 01:45 AM
True Story. In 3rd grade, each of my son's classmates were assigned a state to learn about. He got Nebraska. Summed it up with: "Nebraska seems like a boring state and I hope I never have to visit there."

That's when I knew my son was genius.Also known as, "Just like Kansas."

Chocolate Hog
10-01-2011, 01:49 AM
Also known as, "Just like Kansas."

I was gonna say.... I don't see a difference between Kansas and Nebraska at all. Omaha has the cooler zoo?

LiveSteam
10-01-2011, 02:00 AM
I was gonna say.... I don't see a difference between Kansas and Nebraska at all. Omaha has the cooler zoo?

Every now & then I go & run the Omaha Zoo trains.
Very similar to the Big 12 -2-1, Round & round & round.

Saul Good
10-01-2011, 12:40 PM
Mizzou can't be as good as Arkansas in the SEC. I mean, Arkansas has held aTm to 35 first half points.

Saul Good
10-01-2011, 01:05 PM
Illinois is only ranked because they don't have Mizzou on their schedule to push in their shit week one. Looking good against Northwestern, though.

Reaper16
10-01-2011, 01:09 PM
Illinois is only ranked because they don't have Mizzou on their schedule to push in their shit week one. Looking good against Northwestern, though.
Illinois beat Arizona State.

Saul Good
10-01-2011, 01:11 PM
Illinois beat Arizona State.

By a field goal at home. I'm not impressed.

KChiefs1
10-01-2011, 01:35 PM
One of my photos was used to design the complex so obviously it is incredible. :)

I don't really understand what kcchiefs1 is basing this one.

Gotta keep up with the big boys. Facilities "ALWAYS" need to be upgraded. Can't stay complacent!

HolyHandgernade
10-01-2011, 10:09 PM
Cornhusker Teacher: OK, class, as we have all learned, the "N" on the helmets stands for "Nowledge". But it also stands for other words such as "Nialated". Can someone use that word in a sentence for me?

Bo's Pelinin: The Cornhuskers got "nialated" in their first Big Ten game.

Cornhusker Teacher: We are soooo getting our AAU status back!!!

Mr_Tomahawk
10-01-2011, 10:10 PM
So I haven't been keeping up with the drama the last 72 hours. Any big news...?

Saul Good
10-01-2011, 10:18 PM
I was gonna say.... I don't see a difference between Kansas and Nebraska at all. Omaha has the cooler zoo?

I've been watching football all day, and I don't see a difference either.

Mr. Plow
10-01-2011, 10:20 PM
I've been watching football all day, and I don't see a difference either.

:)

At least KU was a somewhat close game this week.

Saulbadguy
10-01-2011, 10:20 PM
Speaking of idiots, what is it with you and the neg rep button? I actually gave your football team a compliment and you neg repped me for it? Then you call another one a "shit post" that did nothing but speculate like everyone else on this thread you created. Did I wrong you in some fashion? I guess if I'm going to garner all this ill will from you, I'm going to start getting my money's worth from it.

So, answer the question, are you a complete moron or do you just play one on this message board?

It's because you are a shitty poster.

Guru
10-01-2011, 10:21 PM
I've been watching football all day, and I don't see a difference either.

LMAO

Raiderhader
10-02-2011, 12:04 AM
Ya' think?


I try not to, it tends to get me in trouble.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 07:02 AM
It's because you are a shitty poster.

You're a moron because I'm a shitty poster? I can live with that.

eazyb81
10-02-2011, 10:58 AM
Big 12 Presidents are meeting this afternoon and are expected to make their final and best offer to Mizzou before its Board of Curators meeting on Tuesday.


http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/2095

DeezNutz
10-02-2011, 11:25 AM
Big 12 Presidents are meeting this afternoon and are expected to make their final and best offer to Mizzou before its Board of Curators meeting on Tuesday.


http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/2095

Rumors about what Mizzou is asking for and the chances of getting it?

eazyb81
10-02-2011, 11:28 AM
Rumors about what Mizzou is asking for and the chances of getting it?

I think the main issue would be turning LHN into a legit Big 12 Network, and the odds of that happening are around 0%.

DeezNutz
10-02-2011, 11:31 AM
I think the main issue would be turning LHN into a legit Big 12 Network, and the odds of that happening are around 0%.

Definitely. If this is all about the LHN, this is a wind-pissing contest at its finest.

Mosbonian
10-02-2011, 03:59 PM
Let's hope they have the stones to tell the Big 12 to either straighten out or we are gone.

KcMizzou
10-02-2011, 04:40 PM
Per Chip Brown:

A high ranking official at a Big 12 school told Orangebloods.com Sunday that "much progress was made" during a conference call with the Big 12 presidents and chancellors Sunday at 1:30. The primary topic was Missouri and the Tigers' future in or out of the Big 12.

The source said there was optimism that Missouri would stay in the Big 12 and that interim Big 12 commissioner Chuck Neinas would be issuing a press release discussing the progress.

But nothing will be finalized as it pertains to Missouri until MU Board of Curators meet on Tuesday. The curators are deciding if the Tigers should apply for membership to the South Eastern Conference, sources have said.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 04:43 PM
I think the main issue would be turning LHN into a legit Big 12 Network, and the odds of that happening are around 0%.

I don't understand why the schools that can't support a TV Network of their own don't just produce one of their own? Why does this have to be such a big deal? I bet that network would have a wider audience, it would definitely be able to broadcast more games. I fail to see why this is such a huge stumbling block, if it indeed that it is.

Stewie
10-02-2011, 04:46 PM
I don't understand why the schools that can't support a TV Network of their own don't just produce one of their own? Why does this have to be such a big deal? I bet that network would have a wider audience, it would definitely be able to broadcast more games. I fail to see why this is such a huge stumbling block, if it indeed that it is.

Because the LHN expanded as a recruiting tool.

The funny thing is aTm was offered a TV network combined with UT. aTm refused and then got pissed that UT hooked up with ESPN.

Stupid is as stupid does.

eazyb81
10-02-2011, 04:53 PM
I don't understand why the schools that can't support a TV Network of their own don't just produce one of their own? Why does this have to be such a big deal? I bet that network would have a wider audience, it would definitely be able to broadcast more games. I fail to see why this is such a huge stumbling block, if it indeed that it is.

A Big 12 Network sans Texas would be practically worthless, just like a Big Ten Network without OSU and Michigan. You need Texas and their 25 million residents in the fold to make it worthwhile to the broadcaster.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 04:53 PM
Because the LHN expanded as a recruiting tool.

The funny thing is aTm was offered a TV network combined with UT. aTm refused and then got pissed that UT hooked up with ESPN.

Stupid is as stupid does.

I just don't see it. Does anyone really think the difference between Texas getting all the Texas recruits it wants and others taking what they think is theirs is the LHN showing highlights a local news station could?

Texas is going to get those recruits no matter if the LHN is there or not. It seems like a worthless thing to bitch about. Well, other than the gobs of money it pays Texas, but Texas is always going to have money.

tredadda
10-02-2011, 04:56 PM
I just don't see it. Does anyone really think the difference between Texas getting all the Texas recruits it wants and others taking what they think is theirs is the LHN showing highlights a local news station could?

Texas is going to get those recruits no matter if the LHN is there or not. It seems like a worthless thing to bitch about. Well, other than the gobs of money it pays Texas, but Texas is always going to have money.

If there was a Big XII etwork, I don't think the LHN would be a big deal. You are right UT will get the choice recruits out of Texas regardless of whether there is a LHN or not.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 04:58 PM
A Big 12 Network sans Texas would be practically worthless, just like a Big Ten Network without OSU and Michigan. You need Texas and their 25 million residents in the fold to make it worthwhile to the broadcaster.

I disagree. You still have two teams in Texas with the possibility of adding a third. You have a huge national power in OU in football, you have a huge national power in KU in basketball. You could easily have complimentary "look ins" with the LHN and The Cougar Network if they come in to ensure some Texas content on the Big XII Network and some Big XII content on the LHN.

This is what I mean when I say the other schools need to focus on what they can do instead of this continuous whining about what Texas does. If the conference expands it could be a profitable venture that actually has a further reach than the LHN.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 05:02 PM
Per Chip Brown:

A high ranking official at a Big 12 school told Orangebloods.com Sunday that "much progress was made" during a conference call with the Big 12 presidents and chancellors Sunday at 1:30. The primary topic was Missouri and the Tigers' future in or out of the Big 12.

The source said there was optimism that Missouri would stay in the Big 12 and that interim Big 12 commissioner Chuck Neinas would be issuing a press release discussing the progress.

But nothing will be finalized as it pertains to Missouri until MU Board of Curators meet on Tuesday. The curators are deciding if the Tigers should apply for membership to the South Eastern Conference, sources have said.

Here's hoping Chip Brown is wrong and the Mizzou curators have the courage to make a change. If the Tigers stay in the Big XII, we will be going through this drama again very, very soon. I am sure that the Texas and OU lawyers already have a plan to break out of any agreement locking up TV rights to the conference that they have been talking about.

Al Bundy
10-02-2011, 05:03 PM
I disagree. You still have two teams in Texas with the possibility of adding a third. You have a huge national power in OU in football, you have a huge national power in KU in basketball. You could easily have complimentary "look ins" with the LHN and The Cougar Network if they come in to ensure some Texas content on the Big XII Network and some Big XII content on the LHN.

This is what I mean when I say the other schools need to focus on what they can do instead of this continuous whining about what Texas does. If the conference expands it could be a profitable venture that actually has a further reach than the LHN.

So you really don't think airing high school football games/highlights would be beneficial for the Longhorns?

beer bacon
10-02-2011, 05:03 PM
Here's hoping Chip Brown is wrong and the Mizzou curators have the courage to make a change. If the Tigers stay in the Big XII, we will be going through this drama again very, very soon. I am sure that the Texas and OU lawyers already have a plan to break out of any agreement locking up TV rights to the conference that they have been talking about.

What is there for him to be wrong about? He didn't say anything definitive.

eazyb81
10-02-2011, 05:05 PM
I disagree. You still have two teams in Texas with the possibility of adding a third. You have a huge national power in OU in football, you have a huge national power in KU in basketball. You could easily have complimentary "look ins" with the LHN and The Cougar Network if they come in to ensure some Texas content on the Big XII Network and some Big XII content on the LHN.

This is what I mean when I say the other schools need to focus on what they can do instead of this continuous whining about what Texas does. If the conference expands it could be a profitable venture that actually has a further reach than the LHN.

We can argue all day about it, but the facts are that LHN is viewed as a major problem by some schools and so far Texas is unwilling to make a change for the good of the conference. If it really is no big deal, as UT will always get the recruits they want and will make more money than God, then why can't they make a concession for the good of the conference?

To address the LHN problem, it seems clear a Big 12 Network needs to be a solution. A Big 12 Network without Texas is worthless, so getting them into the fold is mandatory. A potential solution I have thought about would be folding LHN into a legit Big 12 Network, but with UT getting a floor on revenue that is no less than the current LHN arrangement ($15MM per year) and the upside as every other team; so once total network revenue in a 10-team league exceeded $150MM per year, each school would get an equal payout.

UT could do this and still save face (which is clearly important for them), as there is no chance they will lose money. The Big 12 could save face by arguing this special arrangement makes sense as UT provided initial funding to get LHN off the ground.

tredadda
10-02-2011, 05:05 PM
So you really don't think airing high school football games/highlights would be beneficial for the Longhorns?

If it were out of state games, yes. In state is irrelevant since UT gets the top in state recruits regardless. They have for decades, well before the LHN was ever even dreamed of.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 05:07 PM
So you really don't think airing high school football games/highlights would be beneficial for the Longhorns?

How much more beneficial can it really be? Are you suggesting Texas doesn't get their pick of Texas recruits already? They can only take so many each year. The ones that didn't grow up dreaming about playing for Texas weren't going to sign with them anyway. The others that do don't need a LHN to convince them any more. We don't compete for those recruits. The only school that does is OU, and even they can't pry the majority of them away, they just make sure they don't go to some other Texas school. So, what is the huge recruiting benefit you see?

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 05:08 PM
What is there for him to be wrong about? He didn't say anything definitive.

The tone of what he said seems to indicate Mizzou is leaning towards staying when an opportunity to go to the SEC is there. I hope he is wrong, and that Mizzou is not swayed by these last minute arguments, which are probably empty promises by Texas, OU, etc., and that we take the opportunity to leave those cheating whores of conference mates behind.

eazyb81
10-02-2011, 05:11 PM
The tone of what he said seems to indicate Mizzou is leaning towards staying when an opportunity to go to the SEC is there. I hope he is wrong, and that Mizzou is not swayed by these last minute arguments, which are probably empty promises by Texas, OU, etc., and that we take the opportunity to leave those cheating whores of conference mates behind.

The fact that there was no mention of new concessions by UT is a good sign for Mizzou fans that want the SEC. If UT made significant concessions in this meeting, they would want Chip to brag about it to help frame the storyline that they are the good guys here. I think a final offer has been made, and it is time for Mizzou to show its hand.

Mizzou_8541
10-02-2011, 05:13 PM
The tone of what he said seems to indicate Mizzou is leaning towards staying when an opportunity to go to the SEC is there. I hope he is wrong, and that Mizzou is not swayed by these last minute arguments, which are probably empty promises by Texas, OU, etc., and that we take the opportunity to leave those cheating whores of conference mates behind.

What else are they going to say?

I think that is good news because we didn't hear any "...proud members of the Big 12" statements.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 05:14 PM
The fact that there was no mention of new concessions by UT is a good sign for Mizzou fans that want the SEC. If UT made significant concessions in this meeting, they would want Chip to brag about it to help frame the storyline that they are the good guys here. I think a final offer has been made, and it is time for Mizzou to show its hand.

I can see that and agree. Today probably was the final pitch, and no word of major changes or concessions has been leaked. Now the big question is.....Mizzou has to show its hand...what will it be?

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 05:15 PM
What else are they going to say?

I think that is good news because we didn't hear any "...proud members of the Big 12" statements.

True as well. I think I said earlier in this thread that every day we go without a "proud member of the Big XII" statement is a day closer Mizzou gets to leaving. Tuesday cannot get here fast enough. I am sure twitter will be on fire tomorrow, if it is not already, with speculation.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 05:16 PM
We can argue all day about it, but the facts are that LHN is viewed as a major problem by some schools and so far Texas is unwilling to make a change for the good of the conference. If it really is no big deal, as UT will always get the recruits they want and will make more money than God, then why can't they make a concession for the good of the conference?

Because they don't view the LHN as an athletics only venue. Sure, that's the part that gets all the initial attraction, but they use that channel to promote their educational and cultural aspects as well. Much of that money goes to the academic costs, not the athletics ones.

To address the LHN problem, it seems clear a Big 12 Network needs to be a solution. A Big 12 Network without Texas is worthless, so getting them into the fold is mandatory. A potential solution I have thought about would be folding LHN into a legit Big 12 Network, but with UT getting a floor on revenue that is no less than the current LHN arrangement ($15MM per year) and the upside as every other team; so once total network revenue in a 10-team league exceeded $150MM per year, each school would get an equal payout.

There is no way that is going to happen, highlighted by the reasons I just pointed out above. Its not just an athletics channel to UT. By saying such a network is "worthless" without UT, I think, is very demeaning to the rest of the field. They have trouble selling that network as it is. I bet if the Texas cable companies sold the Big XII and LHN as some sort of package, most Texans would buy both.

UT could do this and still save face (which is clearly important for them), as there is no chance they will lose money. The Big 12 could save face by arguing this special arrangement makes sense as UT provided initial funding to get LHN off the ground.

If it was about money, they would have joined the PAC. That system, even without Texas, is projected to make more than Texas will on their own. This isn't about money to Texas, its about what Texas values in the LHN. To me, it looks like everyone was fine with the revenue system for 3rd Tier until Texas showed how much they were worth on their own. All of a sudden, everyone got nervous about their place with feelings of inadequacy.

The sooner we stop focusing on the LHN, the sooner everyone will realize the original mole hill we made into a mountain.

Mizzou_8541
10-02-2011, 05:18 PM
I can see that and agree. Today probably was the final pitch, and no word of major changes or concessions has been leaked. Now the big question is.....Mizzou has to show its hand...what will it be?

Should be a fun few days. Hopefully the BOC pulls the trigger.

patteeu
10-02-2011, 05:23 PM
The tone of what he said seems to indicate Mizzou is leaning towards staying when an opportunity to go to the SEC is there. I hope he is wrong, and that Mizzou is not swayed by these last minute arguments, which are probably empty promises by Texas, OU, etc., and that we take the opportunity to leave those cheating whores of conference mates behind.

If they stay, the way I'd read it is that they wanted to stay all along but wanted to extract as many concessions as possible from Texas before taking the deal.

eazyb81
10-02-2011, 05:27 PM
Because they don't view the LHN as an athletics only venue. Sure, that's the part that gets all the initial attraction, but they use that channel to promote their educational and cultural aspects as well. Much of that money goes to the academic costs, not the athletics ones.

Right, because they are trying to promote UT over the Big 12, which is driving the wedge here. Why didn't OSU or Michigan feel the need to say "no thanks" to a Big Ten Network and start a school-specific one? Why have other conferences said LHN simply would not be allowed if UT came knocking?

There is no way that is going to happen, highlighted by the reasons I just pointed out above. Its not just an athletics channel to UT. By saying such a network is "worthless" without UT, I think, is very demeaning to the rest of the field. They have trouble selling that network as it is. I bet if the Texas cable companies sold the Big XII and LHN as some sort of package, most Texans would buy both.

I agree it won't happen, but it would be a solution to this mess and resolve a significant amount of internal conflict.

And sorry if you don't like the term "worthless", but that is exactly how ESPN, Fox, etc would view the revenue potential of a Big 12 Network without Texas. The Big Ten Network would be worthless without OSU and Michigan. The upcoming SEC Network will be worthless without Florida and Alabama.

If it was about money, they would have joined the PAC. That system, even without Texas, is projected to make more than Texas will on their own. This isn't about money to Texas, its about what Texas values in the LHN. To me, it looks like everyone was fine with the revenue system for 3rd Tier until Texas showed how much they were worth on their own. All of a sudden, everyone got nervous about their place with feelings of inadequacy.

The sooner we stop focusing on the LHN, the sooner everyone will realize the original mole hill we made into a mountain.

This point goes back to the prior that a Big 12 Network is worthless without Texas. With LHN, Texas is eliminating upside from a potential Big 12 Network from schools like ISU, KSU, KU, etc.

Don't worry, hopefully the last of the complainers will be gone shortly and you guys can forget this mess ever happened. Schools like Mizzou, A&M, Nebraska, and Colorado just don't understand the great vision of LHN.

Al Bundy
10-02-2011, 07:26 PM
How much more beneficial can it really be? Are you suggesting Texas doesn't get their pick of Texas recruits already? They can only take so many each year. The ones that didn't grow up dreaming about playing for Texas weren't going to sign with them anyway. The others that do don't need a LHN to convince them any more. We don't compete for those recruits. The only school that does is OU, and even they can't pry the majority of them away, they just make sure they don't go to some other Texas school. So, what is the huge recruiting benefit you see?

Recruiting advantage and if you really can't see it I can't help you. Period.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 07:30 PM
If it was about money, they would have joined the PAC.

You have been in left field on these issues during this whole process.

Mosbonian
10-02-2011, 09:26 PM
So...any more info come out after the meeting of the Big 12 Presidents and the Chancellors?

Any updates?

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 09:26 PM
Recruiting advantage and if you really can't see it I can't help you. Period.

I didn't ask for your help, I asked you to explain it. I explained why I didn't think it was, your only return seems to be "because I said so". This leads me to believe it is only a recruiting advantage in your mind because you can't describe it for anyone else.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 09:27 PM
You have been in left field on these issues during this whole process.

All right, drag me into the infield, explain it instead of using obscure analogies to hide what appears to only be an insecurity rationale.

Al Bundy
10-02-2011, 09:30 PM
I didn't ask for your help, I asked you to explain it. I explained why I didn't think it was, your only return seems to be "because I said so". This leads me to believe it is only a recruiting advantage in your mind because you can't describe it for anyone else.

You post what you believe to be the reason it won't be. Prospects get plucked from the state of Texas that even the might Longhorns are after every year. You give the Longhorns this, and it is yet another recruiting tool they will use over and over.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 09:33 PM
All right, drag me into the infield, explain it instead of using obscure analogies to hide what appears to only be an insecurity rationale.

You swung and missed on your characterization of the PAC situation. They didn't want Texas because they knew the LHN was going to screw everything up.

Aside from that it seems obvious Texas intents was to use this frayed Big 12 to get the LHN up and running and then bolt to be independent when it started raining down money. They over played their hand and now you have this complete mess.

Why, with all the success the Big 12 have had are all these teams bolting? Pinkel said it best...this league has problems and everyone knows what they are.

LHN network has the ability to skew all kinds of advantages towards Texas...and that is fine this is a free market. They have the right to do that but those other teams also have a right to call bullshit and try to form a conference situation that works for everyone and isn't completely toxic because the greed of Texas made it that way.

This whole thread you keep asking why this and why that...why would people leave the Big 12? Why not.

Mr_Tomahawk
10-02-2011, 09:38 PM
So I take it there has been no new news?

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 09:42 PM
Right, because they are trying to promote UT over the Big 12, which is driving the wedge here. Why didn't OSU or Michigan feel the need to say "no thanks" to a Big Ten Network and start a school-specific one? Why have other conferences said LHN simply would not be allowed if UT came knocking?

See, I think this notion of "over the Big XII" is your perspective. I think they just see it as promoting a UT network for Texans. Your comparing a conference that been together for not even 2 decades against conferences that have over half a century of relationships. The Big XII came together because of TV contracts, and now you think there should just be a bunch of camaraderie. It doesn't make any sense. You can't force the appearance of decades long relationships.

[QUOTE=eazyb81;7961560]I agree it won't happen, but it would be a solution to this mess and resolve a significant amount of internal conflict.

And sorry if you don't like the term "worthless", but that is exactly how ESPN, Fox, etc would view the revenue potential of a Big 12 Network without Texas. The Big Ten Network would be worthless without OSU and Michigan. The upcoming SEC Network will be worthless without Florida and Alabama.

I think that's just conjecture. I don't think anyone has tried because the whole conference thought in terms of self interest. It was like they assumed the right to keep third tier control only meant an individual network. So, everyone was excited about their own network and how to make that work, but considers any collaborative effort to be folly. Makes perfect sense.

This point goes back to the prior that a Big 12 Network is worthless without Texas. With LHN, Texas is eliminating upside from a potential Big 12 Network from schools like ISU, KSU, KU, etc.

Don't worry, hopefully the last of the complainers will be gone shortly and you guys can forget this mess ever happened. Schools like Mizzou, A&M, Nebraska, and Colorado just don't understand the great vision of LHN.

Well, I think all those schools left for different reasons. CU used the excuse of Texas but had been wanting to move west for quite some time because they identified with that culture more and most of their alumni on the west coast. NU was upset over the partial qualifier and the disrupted series with OU. Many of the things this conference has now was because NU wanted it that way. My guess is they wouldn't have been nearly as upset if their program hadn't gone in the tank like it did for a number of years. A&M has an inferiority complex, their issue was ruled in their favor and they still thought the SEC was the only way to carve out their own identity. If anyone really had a beef with a recruiting imbalance with the LHN, it would have been them.

MU doesn't compete for the same recruits UT does. There is no real recruiting advantage the LHN ensures over MU that UT didn't already possess. I'm not saying Texas isn't a headache to deal with, they obviously are. I just think this LHN issue has been blown way out of proportion. I think this is an opportunity for MU to play like one of the big dogs. I just don't know if they know the new kennel they want to run to isn't going to make them one of the runts again, even more so than they ever were in this conference.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 09:45 PM
I think this is an opportunity for MU to play like one of the big dogs. I just don't know if they know the new kennel they want to run to isn't going to make them one of the runts again, even more so than they ever were in this conference.

More Kansas fans telling Missouri how scared they should be.

/eye roll

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 09:45 PM
You post what you believe to be the reason it won't be. Prospects get plucked from the state of Texas that even the might Longhorns are after every year. You give the Longhorns this, and it is yet another recruiting tool they will use over and over.

Yes, but that's because the state of Texas produces more talent than any one school (or even 7) in the state can legally take. UT gets who they want and wants them. If a recruit didn't want UT in the first place, the LHN isn't going to change their mind because they showed some high school highlights. The only recruits Texas loses are the ones that didn't want them or weren't ranked high enough for Texas to want. That won't change, LHN or no.

Mr_Tomahawk
10-02-2011, 09:47 PM
Guess not...

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 09:48 PM
Yes, but that's because the state of Texas produces more talent than any one school (or even 7) in the state can legally take. UT gets who they want and wants them. If a recruit didn't want UT in the first place, the LHN isn't going to change their mind because they showed some high school highlights. The only recruits Texas loses are the ones that didn't want them or weren't ranked high enough for Texas to want. That won't change, LHN or no.

LHN will turn into a money making machine and when they don't need the B12 anymore they will bolt.

That is fine...Texas is free to do that because they can. But if Missouri can avoid being a part of that mess they will.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 09:48 PM
Guess not...

Big 12 had meetings today to try and entice Missouri to stay...Texas puppet Chip Brown said the talks were encouraging.

DeezNutz
10-02-2011, 09:49 PM
At this point, the situation is not at all complicated: if Missouri can leave, they should. Period.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 09:50 PM
At this point, the situation is not at all complicated: if Missouri can leave, they should. Period.

Eactly...

But HH asks with his wide pouty Disney eyes....


But why?

Al Bundy
10-02-2011, 09:55 PM
Yes, but that's because the state of Texas produces more talent than any one school (or even 7) in the state can legally take. UT gets who they want and wants them. If a recruit didn't want UT in the first place, the LHN isn't going to change their mind because they showed some high school highlights. The only recruits Texas loses are the ones that didn't want them or weren't ranked high enough for Texas to want. That won't change, LHN or no.

In your mind.. yes. But it doesn't always happen that way.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 09:59 PM
You swung and missed on your characterization of the PAC situation. They didn't want Texas because they knew the LHN was going to screw everything up.

No, they absolutely wanted Texas, they just don't want the LHN. That, and they didn't want Tech and OSU as well. Our rules already allowed for the LHN, the PAC's didn't, now you want to be retroactive to what MU and the others voted for.

Aside from that it seems obvious Texas intents was to use this frayed Big 12 to get the LHN up and running and then bolt to be independent when it started raining down money. They over played their hand and now you have this complete mess.

There's no doubt about that, but they didn't do anything that was outside of the rules all the institutions voted to install. It seems disingenuous to say, "you can do this" and then be surprised at how successfully they do it, and then try to make them turn it into something for everyone else because we feel inadequate about it.

Why, with all the success the Big 12 have had are all these teams bolting? Pinkel said it best...this league has problems and everyone knows what they are.

There's no doubt, all I'm asking is what does Missouri think is needed to make it right. I mean, if it involves tearing something down your by-laws said you could create, just so you can come to terms with a feeling of disparity, I think the other member institutions have just as much of a hand in "the problems". What's funny about that is this comes from an area that if this were a public "problem" they would call it "socialism". But, apparently socialism is OK as long as you're a conference.

LHN network has the ability to skew all kinds of advantages towards Texas...and that is fine this is a free market. They have the right to do that but those other teams also have a right to call bullshit and try to form a conference situation that works for everyone and isn't completely toxic because the greed of Texas made it that way.

This whole thread you keep asking why this and why that...why would people leave the Big 12? Why not.

I guess I would say because of all the reasons you think you will find somewhere else. Look, if running away from the problem is your and these other school's method of solving it, that's your right. I just personally believe that the real problem is your own focus. I can't control someone else's intentions, I can only control mine. So maybe, if everyone stops envying what Texas has, they could instead look towards at what they can try to build. But, you seem to want to give up, call it worthless, and move away.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:02 PM
Eactly...

But HH asks with his wide pouty Disney eyes....


But why?

Why can't we have a mature conversation about this? Has anything I have discussed with you really been a pout? What is it about sport's fans mentalities that unless you reduce someone else to a cartoon of their position, you can't make a thoughtful point? I thought we were having a decent conversation until this point.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:02 PM
I just personally believe that the real problem is your own focus. I can't control someone else's intentions, I can only control mine. So maybe, if everyone stops envying what Texas has, they could instead look towards at what they can try to build. But, you seem to want to give up, call it worthless, and move away.

You assholes have to pick something and go with it. Are we throwing our hands up and going away because it is too hard or are we foolish for going to another conference because we will get killed.

You can't have both.

If Missouri has a chance to go to a more stable and profitable conference then it would be silly not to. If we are forced to stay and put all of this humpty dumpty conference back together again then so be it but if we have the chance to move on up in the world we would be stupid not to.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:03 PM
In your mind.. yes. But it doesn't always happen that way.

You still don't say anything. Can you give me an example?

Mosbonian
10-02-2011, 10:03 PM
Eactly...

But HH asks with his wide pouty Disney eyes....


But why?

Hey...don't associate Walt and Mickey with anyone linked to KU.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:04 PM
Hey...don't associate Walt and Mickey with anyone linked to KU.

Why not, I probably live closer to it than you do.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:05 PM
Why can't we have a mature conversation about this? Has anything I have discussed with you really been a pout? What is it about sport's fans mentalities that unless you reduce someone else to a cartoon of their position, you can't make a thoughtful point? I thought we were having a decent conversation until this point.

I am using your posts to create a parody of you where you act dumb and don't understand why Missouri would go while making these ridiculous arguments for how the Big 12 is really the place to be.

Your rationalizations always end up with B12 as a happy family because if that isn't the case then your Jayhawks are in a world they don't want to be in.

I think the satire fits.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:05 PM
Hey...don't associate Walt and Mickey with anyone linked to KU.

ROFL

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:10 PM
I am using your posts to create a parody of you where you act dumb and don't understand why Missouri would go while making these ridiculous arguments for how the Big 12 is really the place to be.

Your rationalizations always end up with B12 as a happy family because if that isn't the case then your Jayhawks are in a world they don't want to be in.

I think the satire fits.

Alright, then I'll quit pretending like you have a worthwhile position. I never said Missouri shouldn't go. I only wanted someone to articulate to me why they think they have to. It is obvious to me, it isn't a specific. Its just a general inadequacy about being in the same conference as Texas. There is no real "recruiting advantage" that wasn't already there. Its just envy and you are willing to whore yourself out to a conference who just wants you for your TV markets. And, once they possess them, will send you back to the outskirts of the conference to commiserate with Arkansas, tell you not speak unless spoken to, and to fix them a turkey pot pie on your way back.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Alright, then I'll quit pretending like you have a worthwhile position. I never said Missouri shouldn't go. I only wanted someone to articulate to me why they think they have to. It is obvious to me, it isn't a specific. Its just a general inadequacy about being in the same conference as Texas. There is no real "recruiting advantage" that wasn't already there. Its just envy and you are willing to whore yourself out to a conference who just wants you for your TV markets. And, once they possess them, will send you back to the outskirts of the conference to commiserate with Arkansas, tell you not speak unless spoken to, and to fix them a turkey pot pie on your way back.

Awww, don't go away mad.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:12 PM
Awww, don't go away mad.

Frustrated, not really mad. You're the one that decided to turn a conversation into a satire.

Mosbonian
10-02-2011, 10:13 PM
HH...it's very simple.

We grow very tired of a conference that is shallow now. OU and UT will bolt at the first oportunity of grabbing a larger payday. MU, for once has the opportunity to get away from what is truly the University of Texas conference.

My question to you...why won't you just accept that if KU had the same opportunity that MU does right now, they would jump all over it with both feet.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:14 PM
Frustrated, not really mad. You're the one that decided to turn a conversation into a satire.

I think it is a great way to get a point across.

Also if you want to act like nobody here has talked about the benefits of Missouri going to the SEC then you are either playing dumb or seeing what you want to see.

Mosbonian
10-02-2011, 10:17 PM
Why not, I probably live closer to it than you do.

Proximity doesn't make you a better relative.

Also because it is a quality operation with a PR machine that rivals none.

Plus...they are never afraid to take chances, step outside the norm and try not to sit in a comfort zone.

The same cannot be said for KU.

Mr. Plow
10-02-2011, 10:18 PM
My question to you...why won't you just accept that if KU had the same opportunity that MU does right now, they would jump all over it with both feet.

As a KU fan, I would hope to God they would get out while the gettin' was good.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:18 PM
HH...it's very simple.

We grow very tired of a conference that is shallow now. OU and UT will bolt at the first oportunity of grabbing a larger payday. MU, for once has the opportunity to get away from what is truly the University of Texas conference.

My question to you...why won't you just accept that if KU had the same opportunity that MU does right now, they would jump all over it with both feet.

Well, as everyone has pointed out, UT has kind of painted themselves into a corner with their Longhorn Network, so there really isn't a larger payday for them unless they get rid of the LHN, which it should be obvious, they are not. OU could have easily gotten in front of you to the SEC, but they aren't really interested in the SEC (and they don't even have an AAU status). So, they aren't going anywhere either.

No, I don't think KU would go to the SEC even if they had the opportunity. They might go to the ACC or the PAC, and they would probably go to the B1G. But, if they could stay in the Big XII, get paid well, and not have to break up their regional rivalries, I think only the B1G would cause them to jump. We don't fit SEC culture.

I have never said MU didn't have more opportunities than KU, for a number of reasons, so my points are not really motivated from there.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:19 PM
Why would Missouri go to the SEC?

Why don't you like the Big 12?

Hey! Guys?

Whyyyyyy?

http://yellingatpixels.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/disney_43393_10.jpg

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:23 PM
I think it is a great way to get a point across.

Also if you want to act like nobody here has talked about the benefits of Missouri going to the SEC then you are either playing dumb or seeing what you want to see.

Well, I have read this thread and lots of the older thread and the articles in the KCStar. But, please, point me to the post or story that really outlines it. I could understand the B1G. The opportunities and cultural fit there would be outstanding. The SEC... I really don't get that quite as much. It seems like a negotiation ploy to me, which I could understand from the university perspective. If you have leverage, attempt to use it. I don't understand the fan reasoning.

By the way, the best way to get a point across to actually make a great point. When you have to resort to belittling humor, its usually viewed as a crutch to support a weak position.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:26 PM
Well, I have read this thread and lots of the older thread and the articles in the KCStar. But, please, point me to the post or story that really outlines it. I could understand the B1G. The opportunities and cultural fit there would be outstanding. The SEC... I really don't get that quite as much. It seems like a negotiation ploy to me, which I could understand from the university perspective. If you have leverage, attempt to use it. I don't understand the fan reasoning.

By the way, the best way to get a point across to actually make a great point. When you have to resort to belittling humor, its usually viewed as a crutch to support a weak position.

First of all it is a stable and premier conference.

Stable...it isn't trying to convince city schools to come or looking like it is going to break apart every 5 mins. There isn't even a buy out clause. Nobody wants to leave it.

They are going to the table with ESPN with their expanded conference and it is going to rain down money. an SEC Network in partnership with ESPN is coming. Texas A&M and Missouri are a big part of the SEC's plans for that network. So are Virginia Tech and N.C. State. But that's in the future. For now, Missouri and Texas are important footprints and markets for the network.

Bigger games...bigger competition...a season's worth of better football.

We won't have to worry WTF is up with the SEC every year if we go there.

Mosbonian
10-02-2011, 10:29 PM
By the way, the best way to get a point across to actually make a great point. When you have to resort to belittling humor, its usually viewed as a crutch to support a weak position.

Only in a well structured debate. Sometime belittling humor is used to show contempt for the position of your discussion opponent.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:31 PM
Proximity doesn't make you a better relative.

And yet relativity and proximity are inter-relating terms.

Also because it is a quality operation with a PR machine that rivals none.

Wouldn't a "PR machine that rivals none" be a rather poor PR machine? I bet the Jayhawk has a better PR than the Tiger.

Plus...they are never afraid to take chances, step outside the norm and try not to sit in a comfort zone.

The same cannot be said for KU.

Are you serious? Are you trying to tell me Disney doesn't have a formula? Here, let me tell you a premise and let's see if you can pinpoint which Disney movie it is:

A young character suddenly finds itself on its own, often deprived of one or both parents, and has to undertake a journey of self discovery, acquiring a few trusted friends along the way, to confront the demons born from its childhood innocence.

Go ahead tell me what unique movie that formula belongs to.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:31 PM
By the way, the best way to get a point across to actually make a great point. When you have to resort to belittling humor, its usually viewed as a crutch to support a weak position.
Get over it.

Or don't.

But don't play stupid like everyone hasn't talked about the merits of these moves to death.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 10:32 PM
Honestly, I think most Mizzou fans want to leave because deep down we know that Texas and OU are not going to stay in the Big XII. Texas will probably go independent or to the Pac, and OU will then be Pac bound as well. The SEC might not be a better fit for Mizzou, but it sure as hell is a better fit than being in a non-BCS conference. The SEC is not going anywhere. Someone pointed out that their are no exit penalties to leave the SEC. Why is that?

I think Mizzou will be fine in the SEC. It will be different, but it the SEC will be there. There is no guarantee that the BIG XII will. And when the SEC forms their own network, Mizzou will grow even more.

Why should Mizzou be so loyal to the Big XII when Texas and OU have none?

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:33 PM
Only in a well structured debate. Sometime belittling humor is used to show contempt for the position of your discussion opponent.

HH realignment opinion process.

1. Start with a scenario where Kansas is happy and the B12 is a great conference to be in.

2. Rationalize.

3. Reach

4. Reach

5. Rationalize.

6. Why would anyone want anything other than the Big 12? WHY?

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 10:33 PM
First of all it is a stable and premier conference.

Stable...it isn't trying to convince city schools to come or looking like it is going to break apart every 5 mins. There isn't even a buy out clause. Nobody wants to leave it.

They are going to the table with ESPN with their expanded conference and it is going to rain down money. an SEC Network in partnership with ESPN is coming. Texas A&M and Missouri are a big part of the SEC's plans for that network. So are Virginia Tech and N.C. State. But that's in the future. For now, Missouri and Texas are important footprints and markets for the network.

Bigger games...bigger competition...a season's worth of better football.

We won't have to worry WTF is up with the SEC every year if we go there.

Exactly. Zach said it better than I did.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:34 PM
Honestly, I think most Mizzou fans want to leave because deep down we know that Texas and OU are not going to stay in the Big XII.

Your whole post was great but I am just going to stop here in the hopes that HH doesn't miss this very valid point and doesn't act like he didn't see it.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:34 PM
Only in a well structured debate. Sometime belittling humor is used to show contempt for the position of your discussion opponent.

Usually, its meant to show off in front of a crowd you know already supports or is in league with your position. You know, kinda like junior high. If there were actually some specifics said, I could see this technique. But look through the discussion, its only vague "If you can't figure it out" or "I shouldn't have to restate these things" or "Isn't it obvious". Those aren't answers, they are evasions, therefore the belittling humor is an attempt to extricate themselves from the discussion while trying to claim a victory.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:36 PM
Your whole post was great but I am just going to stop here in the hopes that HH doesn't miss this very valid point and doesn't act like he didn't see it.

I actually did answer that point already. So, explain to me this better opportunity scenario?

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:37 PM
I actually did answer that point already. So, explain to me this better opportunity scenario?

Wow. lol.

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/head-in-the-sand.jpg

dirk digler
10-02-2011, 10:38 PM
Well, I have read this thread and lots of the older thread and the articles in the KCStar. But, please, point me to the post or story that really outlines it. I could understand the B1G. The opportunities and cultural fit there would be outstanding. The SEC... I really don't get that quite as much. It seems like a negotiation ploy to me, which I could understand from the university perspective. If you have leverage, attempt to use it. I don't understand the fan reasoning.

By the way, the best way to get a point across to actually make a great point. When you have to resort to belittling humor, its usually viewed as a crutch to support a weak position.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7950449&postcount=1835

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:39 PM
You responding to something does not make it invalid.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:39 PM
Honestly, I think most Mizzou fans want to leave because deep down we know that Texas and OU are not going to stay in the Big XII. Texas will probably go independent or to the Pac, and OU will then be Pac bound as well. The SEC might not be a better fit for Mizzou, but it sure as hell is a better fit than being in a non-BCS conference. The SEC is not going anywhere. Someone pointed out that their are no exit penalties to leave the SEC. Why is that?

I think Mizzou will be fine in the SEC. It will be different, but it the SEC will be there. There is no guarantee that the BIG XII will. And when the SEC forms their own network, Mizzou will grow even more.

Why should Mizzou be so loyal to the Big XII when Texas and OU have none?

Well, the PAC said they aren't taking the LHN and they have basically said no to OU. Texas doesn't want to go independent because they don't want to have to ship their non revenue sports all across the country.

Mizzou may very well be fine in the SEC, but there is no guarantee of that anymore than the Big XII won't continue to go on, and succeed, even if they do so as "the Bickersons".

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 10:40 PM
I actually did answer that point already. So, explain to me this better opportunity scenario?

Going to a conference that is not going to break apart and leave you on the outside looking in of the BCS is part of the better opportunity.

Better exposure on the national stage is another.

More money for the school is yet another, and being part of a league wide network as an equal partner is a huge part of that.

The fact that said money will be guaranteed, since the SEC will not dissolve, as opposed to any BIG XII contract, which becomes worthless the second Texas and OU leave is still another.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:40 PM
Of course there isn't a guarantee.

This is sports and we are not retarded.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:41 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=7950449&postcount=1835

So, its purely a financial motivation for you. That's fair.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:41 PM
Going to a conference that is not going to break apart and leave you on the outside looking in of the BCS is part of the better opportunity.

Better exposure on the national stage is another.

More money for the school is yet another, and being part of a league wide network as an equal partner is a huge part of that.

The fact that said money will be guaranteed, since the SEC will not dissolve, as opposed to any BIG XII contract, which becomes worthless the second Texas and OU leave is still another.

I am responding to this sooo....

These don't work as points anymore. Create new ones.

/HH thread rules.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:42 PM
You responding to something does not make it invalid.

So, we're back to avoidance. OK.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 10:42 PM
Well, the PAC said they aren't taking the LHN and they have basically said no to OU. Texas doesn't want to go independent because they don't want to have to ship their non revenue sports all across the country.

Mizzou may very well be fine in the SEC, but there is no guarantee of that anymore than the Big XII won't continue to go on, and succeed, even if they do so as "the Bickersons".

Just because Texas does not want to go independent at this moment in time does not guarantee they are going to stick around. If it nets them more money, Texas would be out the door before anyone knew what hit them.

I don't think that the PAC said no to OU...I think they said no to OU and OSU as a package. They were willing to swallow it if Texas was in the deal, but if the PAC could just get OU without little brother, I think they would be all over it.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:42 PM
Of course there isn't a guarantee.

This is sports and we are not retarded.

I was just responding to the post. I didn't bring up guarantees.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:43 PM
So, its purely a financial motivation for you. That's fair.

Stability.

I know you think that isn't a big deal but it is the main reason that is obvious to people who are not KU rationalizers acting dumb in conversations.

dirk digler
10-02-2011, 10:44 PM
So, its purely a financial motivation for you. That's fair.

It is always about the money and as Zach said stability. I would throw in just overall fairness as well.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:44 PM
I was just responding to the post. I didn't bring up guarantees.

Do you think the SEC and the Big 12 have the same level of stability?

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 10:44 PM
Of course there isn't a guarantee.

This is sports and we are not retarded.

There are no guarantees, but the SEC is the strongest conference in the country, and is as close to a guarantee as one can get.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:46 PM
Just because Texas does not want to go independent at this moment in time does not guarantee they are going to stick around. If it nets them more money, Texas would be out the door before anyone knew what hit them.

Yes, but you have to paint the plausible scenario. This is just projecting a worse case scenario with a really small chance of probability. It would take Texas wanting to move their sports team to some other region AND another conference that is willing to put up with the arrangement.

I don't think that the PAC said no to OU...I think they said no to OU and OSU as a package. They were willing to swallow it if Texas was in the deal, but if the PAC could just get OU without little brother, I think they would be all over it.

It would take OU if UT was included. UT has the LHN which the PAC has said it is not willing to accommodate. Therefore, the PAC does not want OU.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:47 PM
There is no reasonable incentive for Missouri to go to the SEC. None that I can see. The Big 12 is doing FANTASTIC these days.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:49 PM
Stability.

I know you think that isn't a big deal but it is the main reason that is obvious to people who are not KU rationalizers acting dumb in conversations.

No, I think that's a fair point. I don't know why it took so long to come around to it. Oh yeah, because first you wanted to blame it on the competitive and recruiting disadvantage of the LHN. Please, pull up where I said I didn't think stability wasn't a big deal. But, you do realize, right now, you are as much the cause of the instability as anyone else. It seemed somewhat hypocritical when OU used this rationale, and I don't think it is any less so when MU does.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 10:51 PM
Yes, but you have to paint the plausible scenario. This is just projecting a worse case scenario with a really small chance of probability. It would take Texas wanting to move their sports team to some other region AND another conference that is willing to put up with the arrangement.



It would take OU if UT was included. UT has the LHN which the PAC has said it is not willing to accommodate. Therefore, the PAC does not want OU.

The PAC would take my dog and a jar of change if Texas was included in the bargain. Texas becoming independent and trying to be the next Notre Dame is not a worst case scenario, it was the endgame for Texas before the super conference mentality became all the rage. Texas truly believes that they are on that level of national following.

Plus, Texas can go independent in football but let the rest of their sports stay in what remains of the BIG XII. Since everyone in this conference is their bitch, they could get away with it. Is Kansas going to be for giving Texas the complete boot if they want to pull out in football? I doubt it.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:51 PM
There are no guarantees, but the SEC is the strongest conference in the country, and is as close to a guarantee as one can get.

They are the strongest football conference in the country. Academics, sports other than football and baseball, they aren't nearly as strong. Remember when MU was going on and on about the academics in the B1G as the reason they wanted to leave last year? Well, you and Vanderbilt will now probably have two things in common if and when you go there.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 10:55 PM
No, I think that's a fair point. I don't know why it took so long to come around to it. Oh yeah, because first you wanted to blame it on the competitive and recruiting disadvantage of the LHN. Please, pull up where I said I didn't think stability wasn't a big deal. But, you do realize, right now, you are as much the cause of the instability as anyone else. It seemed somewhat hypocritical when OU used this rationale, and I don't think it is any less so when MU does.

This is bullshit. This only works if the BIG XII were to dissolve without Mizzou, which no one thinks will happen. Texas is just as much to blame, due to their inability to negotiate and compromise. Why shouldn't Mizzou go to a place where they will be treated better?

In the SEC, B1G, PAC, etc. the teams are equals off of the field. They understand that when their conference is strong and everyone works together, everyone makes money. Texas doesn't get it. They think they deserve a different set of rules. That is fine and dandy as long as they get away with it, but don't bitch when schools start bailing out and look out for the own self-interest.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 10:57 PM
The PAC would take my dog and a jar of change if Texas was included in the bargain. Texas becoming independent and trying to be the next Notre Dame is not a worst case scenario, it was the endgame for Texas before the super conference mentality became all the rage. Texas truly believes that they are on that level of national following.

Plus, Texas can go independent in football but let the rest of their sports stay in what remains of the BIG XII. Since everyone in this conference is their bitch, they could get away with it. Is Kansas going to be for giving Texas the complete boot if they want to pull out in football? I doubt it.

You guys are arguing both sides. Did the PAC stick to their guns and business plan and say no to the Longhorn Network or would they take them, your dog and a jar of change?

Notre Dame is located relatively close to both the upper midwest and the Atlantic Coast, so their options for non revenue sports is greater. Texas would have to endure some great travel costs and cultural misfits to do so. Its not nearly as easy as you seem to propose. Texas wants the Big XII, it gives them the best of both worlds. It didn't want it if OU bolted. But the PAC said no to OU and OU said no to the SEC. Rumor has it the B1G also said no to OU. So, why would they leave a conference where they make a lot of money and have a great path to the BCS? They won't unless Texas wants to alter the LHN.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:58 PM
No, I think that's a fair point. I don't know why it took so long to come around to it. Oh yeah, because first you wanted to blame it on the competitive and recruiting disadvantage of the LHN. Please, pull up where I said I didn't think stability wasn't a big deal. But, you do realize, right now, you are as much the cause of the instability as anyone else. It seemed somewhat hypocritical when OU used this rationale, and I don't think it is any less so when MU does.
Yes. Because this is the first time stability has been brought up in regards to talking about Missouri wanting to leave.

HH: Why would Missouri leave?

Zach: Gives a lot of reasons...one of them stability.

HH: Show me where I said stability wasn't a big deal.

I have never been trolled so hard by someone in my life. I am not even mad it is amazing.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 10:58 PM
They are the strongest football conference in the country. Academics, sports other than football and baseball, they aren't nearly as strong. Remember when MU was going on and on about the academics in the B1G as the reason they wanted to leave last year? Well, you and Vanderbilt will now probably have two things in common if and when you go there.

I can see Mizzou being in football about where they are now. It is not like Mizzou has been dominating in football. Football is a work in progress and will continue to be so regardless of where Mizzou is. Basketball could even be better, especially if we get a real coach.

As for the AAU stuff, Vandy, Florida, and A & M are all AAU schools, so Mizzou would be the elite of academics in the SEC. I see no problem with that.

As to the SEC not being strong in other sports....they are least there. If there is no BIG XII, does it matter how weak the other SEC sports are? At least Mizzou will be in a major conference.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 10:59 PM
They are the strongest football conference in the country. Academics, sports other than football and baseball, they aren't nearly as strong. Remember when MU was going on and on about the academics in the B1G as the reason they wanted to leave last year? Well, you and Vanderbilt will now probably have two things in common if and when you go there.

That wasn't THE reason why. Once again...you are full of shit and cherry picking things to create disingenuous characterizations of these issues. It was "a" reason why among others.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 11:02 PM
This is bullshit. This only works if the BIG XII were to dissolve without Mizzou, which no one thinks will happen. Texas is just as much to blame, due to their inability to negotiate and compromise. Why shouldn't Mizzou go to a place where they will be treated better?

In the SEC, B1G, PAC, etc. the teams are equals off of the field. They understand that when their conference is strong and everyone works together, everyone makes money. Texas doesn't get it. They think they deserve a different set of rules. That is fine and dandy as long as they get away with it, but don't bitch when schools start bailing out and look out for the own self-interest.

Look, anyone that threatens to leave is causing "instability". Instability doesn't mean "collapse". I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "equals off the field". Financially, sure, for the most part. But, I think you're kidding yourself if you think the SEC heavyweights are going to look at you any different than heavyweights of another conference. USC and UCLA get extra considerations in the PAC. Florida in the SEC. There are somethings that size and population will get you. It may be more muted, but it isn't as "equal" as you make it out to be.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 11:03 PM
You guys are arguing both sides. Did the PAC stick to their guns and business plan and say no to the Longhorn Network or would they take them, your dog and a jar of change?

Notre Dame is located relatively close to both the upper midwest and the Atlantic Coast, so their options for non revenue sports is greater. Texas would have to endure some great travel costs and cultural misfits to do so. Its not nearly as easy as you seem to propose. Texas wants the Big XII, it gives them the best of both worlds. It didn't want it if OU bolted. But the PAC said no to OU and OU said no to the SEC. Rumor has it the B1G also said no to OU. So, why would they leave a conference where they make a lot of money and have a great path to the BCS? They won't unless Texas wants to alter the LHN.

Travel costs mean nothing in any of this. Football by far incurs the most travel expenses, and Texas plays football wherever it wants now.

So SEC country is a bunch of cultural misfits then? It is that kind of arrogance that has helped create this whole fiasco in the first place.

I do not think we are arguing both sides at all. Folks in this thread have given multiple reasons why Mizzou leaving is good for the school in the long run. That is what we care about. What is best for Mizzou. I fail to see how it is okay for Texas and OU to do whatever they want, with no regard for anyone else, and that is somehow okay...but don't let Mizzou think about doing anything...that would be horrible.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 11:05 PM
That wasn't THE reason why. Once again...you are full of shit and cherry picking things to create disingenuous characterizations of these issues. It was "a" reason why among others.

Hey, I was just following the conversation. I think you have this idea of what the conversation is in your head and assume everyone else is following your narrative. When I asked, you and everyone else just gave me a bunch of generalities. Would it really have been so hard to just say: "Financial payoff and stability"? No, you had to blather on about the obviousness of the big bad LHN and now you are just backtracking.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:05 PM
It's about stability at this point, and I have absolutely no confidence that we won't be revisiting this whole thing in the near future.

Oh Hi there September 21st.

Al Bundy
10-02-2011, 11:07 PM
Holy, are you a KU fan?

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:08 PM
Interesting read from Tramel at the Oklahoman.

Just because the Bedlam plot of the Big 12 soap opera has ended — we're staying right here, in this vampire of a conference — doesn't mean the story is over.

Your turn, Missouri.

Your turn to decide whether this Dark Shadows league that can't be killed is the best place for you.
I don't know if the SEC wants Missouri, and I don't know if Missouri wants to go. But this I know. The SEC should want Mizzou, and Mizzou should want the SEC.

The Big 12 will survive without Missouri. I said something off hand 18 months ago, not sure even if I really believed it, but danged if it hasn't come to pass.
As long as you've got OU and Texas, you've got a league. As long as you've got the Sooners and the Longhorns, which means you've got OSU and Texas Tech, too, you've got a conference. Even if it's a ghastly shell of what it once was.

So Missouri doesn't hold the Big 12's fate in its hands. Sure would be nice if the Tigers stayed, because don't look now, but good football programs suddenly are in short supply.

But the Big 12 will endure. Nothing short of a stake through Bevo's heart will end the Big 12. OU, OSU and Tech aren't going to the Pac, Texas has everything it wants and Iowa State, Kansas, Baylor and K-State are just happy to have a place to hang their hat.

Do the math. That's eight schools. Heck, don't expand at all and you still could have a league. It's been done before.

So Missouri, do whatever you want. Don't worry about putting Iowa State out of business or getting sued by Kenny Starr. Misery loves company, so we'd love for you to stay, but whether Missouri loves company or Missouri loves misery, well, that's up to you.

But the SEC would be nuts not to take a crack at Mizzou. If the ACC has closed the door to raiders — imagine that, a conference with the vision and leadership to proactively safeguard its house — then the SEC's options are limited.

The powerhouse league can't stay at 13 schools. That's just goofy. Got to get to 14, which means if OU isn't interested (and the Sooners most definitely are not), then Missouri and West Virginia are the viable candidates.
Mizzou brings much better markets for television contracts, thanks to Kansas City and St. Louis; much better academic reputation, which could start to appeal to the SEC with the addition of another stellar school in Texas A&M; and, don't forget, good football.

Maybe you could argue West Virginia trumps Missouri on the gridiron. But I would argue otherwise, that if you put Mizzou in the Big East the last several years, the BCS bowls would have rolled into Columbia.

So why should Missouri go? I know, everyone says the same about Mizzou they said about A&M, that the Aggies will be squashed in the SEC.

I don't believe it for either the Tigers or Aggies. They won't contend regularly in the current SEC West landscape, but they won't be doormats.

And it's not like Missouri or A&M has been tearing up the Big 12. Missouri has made two Big 12 title games, 2007 and 2008, winning neither. A&M has made two Big 12 title games, 1997 and 1998, winning the latter. In a huge upset.
That's the success rate at stake in the Aggies' move and the Tigers' decision? Two division titles in 15 years? One major bowl berth (the '98 Aggies in the Sugar) between them in 15 years?

That's what Missouri is gambling with? Mizzou could make a lot more money, find conference stability and leave the Longhorns behind. And the Tigers should forego all that because they might win two North Divisions in 15 years?

Missouri's frustration with Texas is only now bubbling. Nebraska's feelings were well-documented. Then A&M's. Finally, OU's.

Now, Mizzou football coach Gary Pinkel carries the banner. His disgust with the Longhorn Network no longer is hidden.

Why would Missouri leave? Why in the world would Missouri stay?

If the SEC is interested, there's only one thing that should keep the Tigers in the Big 12.

The Big Ten. Missouri sort of started this mess 18 months ago, with its glee at Big Ten expansion. Turns out the Big Ten wasn't interested.

But Mizzou still would love to be in the Big Ten, both for academics and athletics. If Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany gives Missouri any reason for hope that his conference could expand in the future and Mizzou would be a prime candidate, that would prompt Missouri to, just like the Sooners did, swallow its pride and hold its nose and put on a happy face.

Otherwise, Missouri has little reason to turn down the SEC, which has many reasons to offer.

Not that it will make much difference back here in the shadows of darkness.


Read more: http://newsok.com/missouri-should-follow-its-heart-in-conference-realignment/article/3608229#ixzz1ZDZTv9q2

Oh hey Stability.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:10 PM
That has nothing to do with why I want out as an MU fan. I want out because the conference isn't stable. Eventually, there will be a huge game of musical chairs, and I want to make sure we have a nice, comfy seat when the music stops.

K-State has beaten Texas several times. What do you think that's worth when it comes to realignment?

Oh hey...stability.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:11 PM
It's no longer about rivalries. It's about going somewhere that seems stable.



Even a Kansas fan gets it.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:12 PM
Hey, I was just following the conversation. I think you have this idea of what the conversation is in your head and assume everyone else is following your narrative. When I asked, you and everyone else just gave me a bunch of generalities. Would it really have been so hard to just say: "Financial payoff and stability"? No, you had to blather on about the obviousness of the big bad LHN and now you are just backtracking.

I did that because I find it really hard to believe someone with a working brain hadn't seen those answers in this thread.

So if I was wrong at any point I was wrong for assuming how smart you were.

Apologies.

dirk digler
10-02-2011, 11:13 PM
Hey, I was just following the conversation. I think you have this idea of what the conversation is in your head and assume everyone else is following your narrative. When I asked, you and everyone else just gave me a bunch of generalities. Would it really have been so hard to just say: "Financial payoff and stability"? No, you had to blather on about the obviousness of the big bad LHN and now you are just backtracking.

There is many reasons why. Pinkel has stated he absolutely hates the LHN because he believes it gives Texas a huge recruiting advantage.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 11:13 PM
Travel costs mean nothing in any of this. Football by far incurs the most travel expenses, and Texas plays football wherever it wants now.

It isn't just travel expenses in costs. Right now, parents can go to the majority of their kid's athletics contests. But, if Texas puts its non football sports in the ACC, how often can they go now. All of their away games are major trips for a family, whereas now Baylor, Tech, OU and OSU are all day trips.

So SEC country is a bunch of cultural misfits then? It is that kind of arrogance that has helped create this whole fiasco in the first place.

Well, now you're misrepresenting what I said. I was saying that if Texas went to the ACC or the PAC, they would be the cultural misfits there. You do realize there are subtle differences among regions of the country, don't you?

I do not think we are arguing both sides at all. Folks in this thread have given multiple reasons why Mizzou leaving is good for the school in the long run. That is what we care about. What is best for Mizzou. I fail to see how it is okay for Texas and OU to do whatever they want, with no regard for anyone else, and that is somehow okay...but don't let Mizzou think about doing anything...that would be horrible.

So, it is an envy thing. They did it, so I'm going to do it too? Look, when UT and OU were doing this, I was critical of them as well. You taking up that torch now doesn't mean its any more noble than when they did. You guys were arguing both sides depending on what narrative you wanted to fill:

If your argument was that the LHN was evil and the PAC proved it by not wanting it, then the PAC doesn't want the LHN.

If your argument is that UT is just looking for a better deal like in the PAC, then you must be arguing the PAC will change their stance on the LHN or Texas will alter it.

It can't be both.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 11:14 PM
Holy, are you a KU fan?

Yes.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 11:14 PM
Seeing some conflicting tweets about what today's Big XII meeting meant. Chip Brown seems to think we are staying, but other tweets say Deaton is playing some serious hard ball. Which is more likely?

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:14 PM
There is many reasons why. Pinkel has stated he absolutely hates the LHN because he believes it gives Texas a huge recruiting advantage.

All of which have been talked about over and over in this thread already.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:15 PM
Seeing some conflicting tweets about what today's Big XII meeting meant. Chip Brown seems to think we are staying, but other tweets say Deaton is playing some serious hard ball. Which is more likely?

Chip Brown is the voice of Texas so this is not surprising.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:17 PM
You want to develop an elite program, you need to be able to compete with the best.

Otherwise, it's all a joke anyway. Beyond this, going to a stable conference should be the first and foremost priority.

This is new.

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 11:17 PM
It isn't just travel expenses in costs. Right now, parents can go to the majority of their kid's athletics contests. But, if Texas puts its non football sports in the ACC, how often can they go now. All of their away games are major trips for a family, whereas now Baylor, Tech, OU and OSU are all day trips.



Well, now you're misrepresenting what I said. I was saying that if Texas went to the ACC or the PAC, they would be the cultural misfits there. You do realize there are subtle differences among regions of the country, don't you?



So, it is an envy thing. They did it, so I'm going to do it too? Look, when UT and OU were doing this, I was critical of them as well. You taking up that torch now doesn't mean its any more noble than when they did. You guys were arguing both sides depending on what narrative you wanted to fill:

If your argument was that the LHN was evil and the PAC proved it by not wanting it, then the PAC doesn't want the LHN.

If your argument is that UT is just looking for a better deal like in the PAC, then you must be arguing the PAC will change their stance on the LHN or Texas will alter it.

It can't be both.

Are all KU fans this dense? This has nothing to do with envy. This has to do with the fact that no one at Mizzou believes that Texas or OU will stay faithful to this conference. Period.

As Zach has stated repeatedly..it is about stability first and foremost. The fact that we get to tell Texas to fuck off on our way out the door is just a bonus.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 11:20 PM
I did that because I find it really hard to believe someone with a working brain hadn't seen those answers in this thread.

So if I was wrong at any point I was wrong for assuming how smart you were.

Apologies.

Here is what I originally responded to:

Originally Posted by eazyb81
I think the main issue would be turning LHN into a legit Big 12 Network, and the odds of that happening are around 0%.

To wit I said:

I don't understand why the schools that can't support a TV Network of their own don't just produce one of their own? Why does this have to be such a big deal? I bet that network would have a wider audience, it would definitely be able to broadcast more games. I fail to see why this is such a huge stumbling block, if it indeed that it is.

Now, you're trying to tell me its all about stability. This is what I mean about the narrative in your brain that nobody else is privy to. I'm not a mind reader. If you want to have a discussion, you have to relate to me what you think. You chose to ignore that and have now turned the whole thing around like I was always addressing the stability issue. So, yes, in the narrative that goes on in your mind, I'm sure I don't have a working brain. That would make it much easier to fulfill your fantasy of being completely forthcoming in you arguments.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 11:22 PM
Are all KU fans this dense? This has nothing to do with envy. This has to do with the fact that no one at Mizzou believes that Texas or OU will stay faithful to this conference. Period.

As Zach has stated repeatedly..it is about stability first and foremost. The fact that we get to tell Texas to **** off on our way out the door is just a bonus.

Yes, we're all this dense. I'm glad you guys could settle on the stability issue and stomp up and down about that as if it was your original point. Sorry, but your reasoning sure sounded like envy to me. "Everyone else is doing it!"

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:25 PM
That would make it much easier to fulfill your fantasy of being completely forthcoming in you arguments.

We brought up stability because it is an obvious incentive to bolt the Big 12. It is an obvious incentive for anyone who has, has thought of, or is thinking of leaving the Big 12. It has been brought up a lot as you can see by the posts I brought up.

Yet when we bring it up you act like it is some magical idea that just popped into your brain.

You either are...or are playing stupid.

Zach: We want to go to a more stable conference

HH: THIS IS NEW! I AM INTRIGUED BY YOUR IDEAS AND WOULD LIKE TO SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR NEWSLETTER!

mnchiefsguy
10-02-2011, 11:26 PM
Yes, we're all this dense. I'm glad you guys could settle on the stability issue and stomp up and down about that as if it was your original point. Sorry, but your reasoning sure sounded like envy to me. "Everyone else is doing it!"

I look forward to your envy when KU is stuck in the Mountain West when Texas decides to take off and leave them behind.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:26 PM
Sorry, but your reasoning sure sounded like envy to me. "Everyone else is doing it!"

And all of your takes sound like a KU fan trying to rationalize the health of a conference his school is stuck in. It has been like this from the start.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 11:30 PM
And all of your takes sound like a KU fan trying to rationalize the health of a conference his school is stuck in. It has been like this from the start.

I suppose it would sound that way to you. Sorry to have bothered you.

HolyHandgernade
10-02-2011, 11:31 PM
I look forward to your envy when KU is stuck in the Mountain West when Texas decides to take off and leave them behind.

I'm sure you do, we'll look forward to that day.

Reaper16
10-02-2011, 11:45 PM
Fucking Christ, HHG. The Longhorn Network is one of the biggest causes of the instability in the Big 12. Your performance in this thread makes me want to punch a hole in my monitor.

|Zach|
10-02-2011, 11:46 PM
****ing Christ, HHG. The Longhorn Network is one of the biggest causes of the instability in the Big 12. Your performance in this thread makes me want to punch a hole in my monitor.

He is just waiting for someone ANYONE to explain why Mizzou would leave the conference.

That is all.

|Zach|
10-03-2011, 12:12 AM
SEC's stability beckons Mizzou

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/02/3181207/secs-stability-beckons-mizzou.html

In each of the last two years, the Big 12 has cheated death, but survival has come with pain and scars.

Three schools and counting are gone. So is a commissioner. Still, the Big 12 lives, without the conviction of other conferences, but the heart beats just the same. And the pulse figures to quicken this week with news on two fronts.

Missouri and expansion.

A decision for the ages may await the Tigers. Interest from the Southeastern Conference appears real, and the school’s Board of Curators’ meeting on Tuesday will address the issue.

That may be all they do, according to a Big 12 official. “My guess is they will do what Texas A&M did, what Oklahoma and Texas did when their boards met and give (Chancellor) Brady Deaton the authority to deal with the issue,” the official said. “I’d be very surprised if what came out of the meeting was news that Missouri made application and was accepted an offer from the SEC.”

If that’s the case, there would be more time to further consider a move — yes, everybody has realignment fatigue, but a possible decision this important shouldn’t be fast-tracked — or to have the Big 12 meet the concerns of Missouri.

But even if some Big 12 schools give or bend on issues — displeasure with high school content on Texas’ Longhorn Network remains a hot-button topic — would it be enough? Perhaps not.

The SEC, like the Big Ten and Pac-12, offers the kind of long-term athletic financial security that only exists in conferences that understand the greater good is achieved through an equal partnership approach.

The Pac-12 came to this notion late, but it’s there now, and it’s a reason why Texas and its network weren’t welcome.

The Big 12 is working toward this approach, and an announcement on equal revenue sharing of its largest TV contract income could come soon.

But twice having been driven to the brink of collapse, the Big 12 cannot assure long-term guarantees, no matter how many years of television rights are signed over to the conference.

Stability becomes the overriding factor, and the last people who could point a finger at Missouri are from Texas and Oklahoma, who only two weeks ago had saddled up for the ride out of the Big 12.

Other factors in such a monumental decision deserve discussion around the curators’ table. Goodness knows, the fans have flushed them out for weeks, and there are many reasons to oppose a move.

Joining the SEC ends the possibility of becoming a member of the group Missouri has long coveted, the Big Ten. The school has inquired several times over the years to different commissioners about membership. If college sports become super-sized as some project, perhaps the Big Ten reopens the expansion file.

But the SEC is a death-do-us-part commitment. No more dreamy-eyed looks at a region and school grouping that’s a better fit.

Competitively, the Big 12 offers the better home. Although Missouri has the fewest conference regular-season and postseason championships among Big 12 schools, several sports compete nationally.

And football would be fine. The SEC is the nation’s most ferocious conference — we all know that. But by most measures, the Big 12 has been the second best, and no worse than third, for most of its existence.

The football staff, however, would live in a new recruiting world, less in Texas, which has been so good to the Tigers, and more in the Southeast. Not to say Mizzou couldn’t pull it off, but as one recruiting analyst told me, the Missouri staff is as well-connected there as anybody outside the Lone Star State.

The two games in Texas have become a major selling point. The staff would need to come up with new sweet-talking lines.

Finally, for Missouri, there’s the Kansas City factor. With the basketball tournament and Border War game with Kansas at Arrowhead, we could be affected by a conference switch more profoundly than any other region in the state.

But that would be our tough luck. Missouri, if faced with a decision, has to act in the best interest of the school.

Whatever Mizzou’s future holds, the Big 12 seems determined to replenish. Rumors ran rampant last week that Brigham Young and the conference had come to an agreement, a story denied by both sides.

But BYU remains a favorite, a school that at some point in the last month, when it was becoming apparent Texas A&M would leave for the SEC, was seen as a schedule filler for the Aggies. Just plug the A&M holes on everybody’s schedule next year with BYU. It might not have been that easy, but perhaps a starting point.

If Mizzou also leaves, the Big 12 will need to move aggressively. Boise State would love to become a member, and although Big East presidents said Sunday that they would “aggressively pursue discussions” with expansion targets and change bylaws to make fleeing more difficult, no deterrent has prevented a move yet.

Big 12 interim commissioner Chuck Neinas is expected to make public comments today, and he’s as pro-Big 12 for Mizzou as it gets. Who knows where the story goes? Wherever it does, we’re in for at least another week of realignment competing for attention with great matchups like Saturday’s Missouri-Kansas State and Oklahoma-Texas games.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/02/3181207/secs-stability-beckons-mizzou.html#ixzz1Zh09QK6E

Bewbies
10-03-2011, 12:30 AM
I'm not a Mizzou fan at all, but there is no way if the SEC wants you that you should turn them down.

If they decide to stay in the Big 12 the people running the show there are stupider than the idiots running the Royals.

mnchiefsguy
10-03-2011, 12:32 AM
I'm not a Mizzou fan at all, but there is no way if the SEC wants you that you should turn them down.

If they decide to stay in the Big 12 the people running the show there are stupider than the idiots running the Royals.

I agree, if they stay and an SEC offer was on the table, Deaton, Alden, and the whole board of curators should be fired immediately.

eazyb81
10-03-2011, 06:19 AM
@sptwri Mike DeArmond
I'm told Deaton and MU are playing hard ball over changes they want made. Doesn't mean MU staying or not. But MU is not playing pattycake.

eazyb81
10-03-2011, 06:22 AM
Jesus HH, what is the point of you shitting all over this thread? Anyone with a functioning brain understands the allure of the SEC. It is the premier athletic conference in the country with unprecedented revenue upside. Continuing to play devil's advocate in this thread just makes you look clueless and devalues your opinion.

patteeu
10-03-2011, 07:34 AM
What's funny about that is this comes from an area that if this were a public "problem" they would call it "socialism". But, apparently socialism is OK as long as you're a conference.


I think a lot of the things you've said make more sense than many of my fellow Mizzou fans do, but this is a nonsensical argument.

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 07:41 AM
Yes, we're all this dense. I'm glad you guys could settle on the stability issue and stomp up and down about that as if it was your original point. Sorry, but your reasoning sure sounded like envy to me. "Everyone else is doing it!"

Please refrain from posting in this thread. You have violated the "basketball" rule one too many times, plus you are so far away from reality you add nothing to the conversation.

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 07:46 AM
@sptwri Mike DeArmond
I'm told Deaton and MU are playing hard ball over changes they want made. Doesn't mean MU staying or not. But MU is not playing pattycake.

No offense, but MU demanding anything is laughable. I'd like them to stay in the conference but their demands should only be met if reasonable.

eazyb81
10-03-2011, 07:58 AM
No offense, but MU demanding anything is laughable. I'd like them to stay in the conference but their demands should only be met if reasonable.

Agree, but what is a reasonable demand? I'm not sure. I think Mizzou wants major concessions on LHN and I don't see that happening, so I think the rest of this is just fluff. Mizzou is going to have to show its hand soon.

Mr. Plow
10-03-2011, 08:25 AM
Agree, but what is a reasonable demand? I'm not sure. I think Mizzou wants major concessions on LHN and I don't see that happening, so I think the rest of this is just fluff. Mizzou is going to have to show its hand soon.

Mizzou is probably going "Hey, let's ask for *insert outrageous concession*, if they go for it - we'll stay. If they don't, we'll be able to say Texas didn't meet our demands and we can leave with a clear conscience."

patteeu
10-03-2011, 08:34 AM
My money is on: Missouri asked for a *reach concession* and if it is rejected they'll stay anyway as long as a a little movement in the direction of the concession is achieved to allow Missouri to save face.

patteeu
10-03-2011, 08:36 AM
No offense, but MU demanding anything is laughable. I'd like them to stay in the conference but their demands should only be met if reasonable.

Whatever demands they're making are most likely demands K-State would like to be making if only they had the leverage to do so. Mizzou doesn't have a ton of leverage, but they have some. Mizzou's retention is attractive to Texas for the same reasons Mizzou's acquisition would be to the SEC.

KChiefs1
10-03-2011, 08:36 AM
I look forward to your envy when KU is stuck in the Mountain West when Texas decides to take off and leave them behind.

MWC revenue vs SEC revenue?

MU has to go to the SEC

KChiefs1
10-03-2011, 08:37 AM
No offense, but MU demanding anything is laughable. I'd like them to stay in the conference but their demands should only be met if reasonable.

Must suck to have no leverage huh?

KChiefs1
10-03-2011, 08:39 AM
@sptwri Mike DeArmond
I'm told Deaton and MU are playing hard ball over changes they want made. Doesn't mean MU staying or not. But MU is not playing pattycake.

Great news!

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 08:59 AM
Jesus HH, what is the point of you shitting all over this thread? Anyone with a functioning brain understands the allure of the SEC. It is the premier athletic conference in the country with unprecedented revenue upside. Continuing to play devil's advocate in this thread just makes you look clueless and devalues your opinion.

Scared Beaker - nothing more, nothing less.

They really out themselves quickly, don't they?

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 09:01 AM
No offense, but MU demanding anything is laughable. I'd like them to stay in the conference but their demands should only be met if reasonable.

My guess would be that every single 'demand' they make would be one that K-State or KU would make as well if they had the capital to make them.

It's not like they're going to demand to be allowed to play all conference games at home or to get Nebraska's % cut of the revenue. They're essentially going to demand stuff that would make us more in line w/ the B1G and hopefully address the LHN.

You fellas should probably be rooting for them at this point.

EDIT:

Whatever demands they're making are most likely demands K-State would like to be making if only they had the leverage to do so. Mizzou doesn't have a ton of leverage, but they have some. Mizzou's retention is attractive to Texas for the same reasons Mizzou's acquisition would be to the SEC.

This

Saul Good
10-03-2011, 09:05 AM
No offense, but MU demanding anything is laughable. I'd like them to stay in the conference but their demands should only be met if reasonable.

Missouri has the two largest media markets in the conference footprint outside of the state of Texas. Mizzou has a lot of leverage.

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 09:11 AM
K-State or KU demanding anything would also be laughable.

Missouri "has the two largest media markets" just as much as Illinois has a stranglehold on Chicago, or Rutgers does with New York City.

Mr. Plow
10-03-2011, 09:12 AM
Scared Beaker - nothing more, nothing less.

They really out themselves quickly, don't they?


Don't lump us all in with HH.

Reerun_KC
10-03-2011, 09:15 AM
Don't lump us all in with HH.

this....

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 09:17 AM
uh oh, do I detect dissension in the ranks?

Saul Good
10-03-2011, 09:24 AM
K-State or KU demanding anything would also be laughable.

Missouri "has the two largest media markets" just as much as Illinois has a stranglehold on Chicago, or Rutgers does with New York City.

Missouri has 6 million residents and 1 major university. Its not a Rutgers situation. People who live in Overland Park seem to think that KC is a Jayhawks town, but it isn't.

I took my kid to Worlds of Fun yesterday, and close to 10% of the people there were wearing Tigers gear. I might have seen two or three each of Jayhawks, Wildcats, and Huskers. I'll bet I saw over 100 people in Mizzou gear.

Reerun_KC
10-03-2011, 09:27 AM
Missouri has 6 million residents and 1 major university. Its not a Rutgers situation. People who live in Overland Park seem to think that KC is a Jayhawks town, but it isn't.

I took my kid to Worlds of Fun yesterday, and close to 10% of the people there were wearing Tigers gear. I might have seen two or three each of Jayhawks, Wildcats, and Huskers. I'll bet I saw over 100 people in Mizzou gear.

Well that would sum up why you saw alot of MU gear...

ChiTown
10-03-2011, 09:30 AM
I took my kid to Worlds of Fun yesterday, and close to 10% of the people there were wearing Tigers gear. I might have seen two or three each of Jayhawks, Wildcats, and Huskers. I'll bet I saw over 100 people in Mizzou gear.

LMAO

I'm sorry, and I don't quite know why, but that struck me as a funny validation example.

Reerun_KC
10-03-2011, 09:37 AM
LMAO

I'm sorry, and I don't quite know why, but that struck me as a funny validation example.

Who the hell goes to WOF on an NFL sunday? Let alone uses WOF to validate a team affliation and fandom...

Mr. Plow
10-03-2011, 09:42 AM
I took my kid to Worlds of Fun yesterday, and close to 10% of the people there were wearing Tigers gear. I might have seen two or three each of Jayhawks, Wildcats, and Huskers. I'll bet I saw over 100 people in Mizzou gear.

If that's what you saw at Worlds of Fun, then it must be true. :D

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 09:50 AM
The KC Star thinks Kansas City is a KU town. They also prove that K-State fans are younger, richer, better looking, and less bandwagon-y than both fanbases.

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv249/thekansascitykid/6082359a.jpg

BryanBusby
10-03-2011, 09:53 AM
Who the hell goes to WOF on an NFL sunday? Let alone uses WOF to validate a team affliation and fandom...

idk man

Ride some roller coasters or watch MattCasselScrambleCam.......hmmm

Reerun_KC
10-03-2011, 09:53 AM
The KC Star thinks Kansas City is a KU town. They also prove that K-State fans are younger, richer, better looking, and less bandwagon-y than both fanbases.

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv249/thekansascitykid/6082359a.jpg

ROFL

Good Ol Saul...

Reerun_KC
10-03-2011, 09:55 AM
idk man

Ride some roller coasters or watch MattCasselScrambleCam.......hmmm

Well there is something called NFL Sunday Ticket...

There were a shit ton of good games on yesterday.

Had Chiefs on one TV, Game Mix on one and Redzone on another. Plus some good food and drinks.

Yeah that beat any roller coaster ride full of MU alumni on a Sunday afternoon.

Saul Good
10-03-2011, 10:11 AM
If that's what you saw at Worlds of Fun, then it must be true. :D

I know its a random example, but I live on JoCo, and 60% of the. College gear I see here is KU gear. It's striking to me that the gear 5 miles East of state line is 90% Mizzou.

My point is that its easy to think that KC is a KU town when you live west of state line. The truth is that the bulk of the population is east of state line, and thise people are overwhelmingly Mizzou fans.

KChiefs1
10-03-2011, 10:16 AM
The Big 12 Conference Board of Directors announced adoption of a position to equally distribute all conference related distributable revenue to include Tier I and II football television, men's basketball television and NCAA men's basketball tournament revenues. This action becomes effective after each member institution commits a grant of rights to the Conference for its Tier I and II television rights for at least six years.

It is recognized by the Board that each member is directed by institutional policy relative to pursuing its grant of rights and that process will commence expeditiously at the institutional level.

The Board is encouraged by the number of institutions indicating interest in the Big 12, which reflects positively on the standing of the Conference within intercollegiate athletics. The Board also looks forward to considering the recommendation of the expansion committee regarding future membership options.

patteeu
10-03-2011, 10:19 AM
I know its a random example, but I live on JoCo, and 60% of the. College gear I see here is KU gear. It's striking to me that the gear 5 miles East of state line is 90% Mizzou.

My point is that its easy to think that KC is a KU town when you live west of state line. The truth is that the bulk of the population is east of state line, and thise people are overwhelmingly Mizzou fans.

I live in the Northland. I see as much Nebraska gear as I see KU gear. Mizzou is by far the most prevalent as far as I can tell (although I don't hang out at gay bars, hog lots or tanning spas).

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 10:21 AM
I live in the Northland. I see as much Nebraska gear as I see KU gear. Mizzou is by far the most prevalent as far as I can tell (although I don't hang out at gay bars, hog lots or tanning spas).

See, that's very odd.

CoMo has sworn to us all that he sees about 20% KU gear in Columbia so surely you're full of shit.

KChiefs1
10-03-2011, 10:22 AM
The Missouri Compromise:

Politics have never been a game I could easily play.
Compromise always seemed like giving up something that should not be given.
And perhaps that, at the core, is what is wrong with the Big 12 Conference as it is so comprised today with three teams gone and a fourth, Missouri, headed for a pivotal Board of Curators meeting on Tuesday.
That meeting looks more and more as if it could determine if the Tigers join secessionists Colorado, Nebraska and Texas A&M.
It seems the most popular course of action by many – perhaps most – Missouri fans if judging by the tsunami of emails and text messages flooding those who would make the decision on whether Missouri stays or goes (most likely it seems to the open arms of the Southeastern Conference).
But forcing myself to play the politician, here are the basic tenets of a plan that, borrowing from history, we’ll call the new Missouri Compromise.
It is based not on individual rights but on the tenet that we the people of the Big 12 Conference as so populated today would be served by a greater good if only:
1. Revenue sharing from this day forward is an equal proposition for all schools. No matter what teams appear on television how many more times than another, the payout is split equally to all on the major TV contracts existing or signed in the future for all games. This would eliminate any Tier 3 games shown only on networks established by individual schools. Any and all football games not picked up by the major TV partners of the conference would be made available on a Big 12 Network with games of only regional interest being offered in those regions. Monies – if any – from those broadcasts would still be shared with all conference members.
2. Any school desiring to have its own over the air or cable or Internet network could keep – after selection of men’s basketball games by Big 12 media partner networks – the rights to the rest of its men’s basketball games for telecast on any available outlet and keep all, if any, monies accrued from those telecasts. Further, telecast revenue of any other intercollegiate athletic event – including women’s basketball - would now and forever belong to the individual schools. Other content that might be considered to give an individual school an advantage – say in recruiting – over other conference members would be allowed or denied by a simple majority vote of all conference members.
3. The Big 12 Conference will expand, as soon as possible, to rebuild league membership to 12 schools, thus enabling the Big 12 to go back to divisional play in football and hold a league championship game.
4. The slotting of teams in Big 12 Conference-allied bowl games will be established by simple and hard and fast rules based on overall record, then head to head competition and ultimately an equitable tiebreaker like a flip of a coin. Bowls under contract with the Big 12 would no longer have the power to choose a league representative but would be assigned that team as the result of a merit-based slotting order.
5.Any and all other matters – including designation of where league tournaments and individual sport championship games will be held – are put to a simple majority vote of all conference member schools.
Could such measures take the politics out of the Big 12 Conference? Could they help establish a more perfect union without the need to further compromise? Could the haves of the Big 12 possibly agree to any of this?
Hey, I’m just a sportswriter who is slogging toward retirement in February of 2012. So feel free to tell me I’m naïve and that none of this could possibly work.

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 10:26 AM
The Big 12 Conference Board of Directors announced adoption of a position to equally distribute all conference related distributable revenue to include Tier I and II football television, men's basketball television and NCAA men's basketball tournament revenues. This action becomes effective after each member institution commits a grant of rights to the Conference for its Tier I and II television rights for at least six years.

It is recognized by the Board that each member is directed by institutional policy relative to pursuing its grant of rights and that process will commence expeditiously at the institutional level.

The Board is encouraged by the number of institutions indicating interest in the Big 12, which reflects positively on the standing of the Conference within intercollegiate athletics. The Board also looks forward to considering the recommendation of the expansion committee regarding future membership options.
boom, roasted

KChiefs1
10-03-2011, 10:33 AM
Kristi Dosh w/BusinessofCollegeSports.com & @sportsbizmiss says the Big East is more stable than the Big 12. She believes Missouri would be crazy to stay in the Big 12 over the SEC. She fully expects MU to join the SEC. Deaton's resignation is absolutely the signal she thought would happen before MU joined the SEC.

Saul Good
10-03-2011, 10:33 AM
Isn't Tier III the issue, though?

KChiefs1
10-03-2011, 10:45 AM
Opinion from Big 10 area lawyer:

"...so if Mizzou effectively turned down an invite to the stable and wealthy SEC in favor of staying in the Big 12 prison (which I would personally characterize as the dumbest business decision in the history of college sports if that's the case), I'd expect a whole lot of pitchforks in Columbia."

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 10:47 AM
Opinion from Big 10 area lawyer:

"...so if Mizzou effectively turned down an invite to the stable and wealthy SEC in favor of staying in the Big 12 prison (which I would personally characterize as the dumbest business decision in the history of college sports if that's the case), I'd expect a whole lot of pitchforks in Columbia."

I sharpened the point on my shovel - that'll have to do.

Reerun_KC
10-03-2011, 10:54 AM
See, that's very odd.

CoMo has sworn to us all that he sees about 20% KU gear in Columbia so surely you're full of shit.

I am not sure whats worse, the fact that you listen to CoMo and take it as gospel. Or the simple fact that you listen to CoMo at all...

Seriously, think about this for a moment....

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 11:02 AM
I am not sure whats worse, the fact that you listen to CoMo and take it as gospel. Or the simple fact that you listen to CoMo at all...

Seriously, think about this for a moment....

I believe you have missed the sarcasm in my post.

As a current Columbia resident and former resident of the aforementioned Northland, I'm using my own experience combined w/ CoMo's, uh, reputation for veracity, to agree with Pat in a backhanded manner.

I thought about typing 'this' and decided against it.

Reerun_KC
10-03-2011, 11:04 AM
I believe you have missed the sarcasm in my post.

As a current Columbia resident and former resident of the aforementioned Northland, I'm using my own experience combined w/ CoMo's, uh, reputation for veracity, to agree with Pat in a backhanded manner.

I thought about typing 'this' and decided against it.

Yes I missed it.

apologize....

kstater
10-03-2011, 11:06 AM
I took my kid to Worlds of Fun yesterday, and close to 10% of the people there were wearing Tigers gear. I might have seen two or three each of Jayhawks, Wildcats, and Huskers. I'll bet I saw over 100 people in Mizzou gear.

Well, you've got one thing going for you. This is as about as accurate as a fan measurement as that study that was based on google searches.

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 11:07 AM
Well, you've got one thing going for you. This is as about as accurate as a fan measurement as that study that was based on google searches.

NATIONAL PRESENCE!!!111

kstater
10-03-2011, 11:10 AM
Isn't Tier III the issue, though?

Tell me which conference shares Tier 3.

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 11:15 AM
Tell me which conference shares Tier 3.

Technically the B1G does, no?

My understanding is that they not allowed to negotiate their Tier III rights outside of the B1G Network.

The SEC is contemplating a similar setup.

But ultimately the Tier III rights are somewhat irrelevant. They're a drop in the bucket for most schools and when it gets right down to it, the only schools that make a lot in tier III revenue have virtually limitless revenue streams anyway (i.e. Texas). Tier III rights aren't worth detonating anything over.

The LHN could possibly be much ado about nothing. But then again, so was Poland in 1939, so there's that.

I just don't know what kind of 'concessions' could be granted to satisfy me here. The XII is just too top-heavy and too dependent on 2 teams that have shown a willingness to burn everyone if its in their own best interests.

But the fact that we know UT and OU have a bit of a wandering eye at this point and the entire XII will collapse if they leave is enough for me to want out.

HolyHandgernade
10-03-2011, 11:24 AM
Jesus HH, what is the point of you shitting all over this thread? Anyone with a functioning brain understands the allure of the SEC. It is the premier athletic conference in the country with unprecedented revenue upside. Continuing to play devil's advocate in this thread just makes you look clueless and devalues your opinion.

All right, I'll refrain from commenting any further until the resolution comes forth. I'll just say in leaving that my position has been grossly distorted. It started out with my position that Texas would never give up their LHN and 3rd Tier rights and that the LHN itself, with the NCAA restrictions in play, does not represent an unfair recruiting advantage. It got turned into that I somehow said the Big XII is just as good as the SEC and Mizzou would be crazy for leaving it.

I did say that I thought Mizzou would be better off in the Big XII and that the stability reasoning won't seem as comforting once they are actually there and the conference can use Missouri's TV markets to make everyone richer, sans sacrificing traditional rivalries, a less taxing competition schedule and lower conference academic profile, but that the stability and increased payout may in your minds offset that for Missouri fans.

I have also said that I want MU to stay but I would understand if they left and it wasn't until after much tooth pulling that most of the people decided a general "stability" answer was the reason they were wanting to leave and that the LHN was the cause of the instability. Apparently pointing out that all the member institutions had agreed to this structure in the past didn't prepare them for the shock of what Texas could realize in the venture and now they want to go back on it. As we all know, UT had even originally invited A&M which refused them. So, if the LHN is the cause of all the instability, it is only because everyone else said "yes" to this plan originally.

My position has and will continue to be that the obsession with Texas (whether from the UT perspective or others complaining about it) is the real problem. A lack of leadership from Texas for the conference and a lack of vision by other institutions that comprise it are what cause the "instability".

What I think the real issue is, if I may be so bold, is that from the Mizzou perspective, they don't believe Texas will ever adopt the position of the conference leader because it ignores it to favor the "do what is best for Texas". To me, that is the problem. The LHN is just the physical embodiment of that sentiment. Can and will Texas take more of a conference leadership role even with the LHN in place? If MU answers that question in the negative, and they actually have a spot in the SEC, then they will go.

But, that is a two way street. Can the other conference members accept any future action by Texas as being a leader in the conference if the LHN is still up and running? In other words, everyone voted for this type of structure, Texas is the one that really ran with it. If Texas claims they will do what is best for the conference after the fact it is in place, will anyone believe them? Stability is born of trust and cooperation, but that has to be a two way street and the focus must be put there.

Saul Good
10-03-2011, 11:39 AM
Mizzou's Homegaming game against ISU will be televised, well, nowhere. Gotta love this conference.

Incidentally, this is the 100th Homecoming by the school that invented Homecoming.

eazyb81
10-03-2011, 11:47 AM
Interesting response back from a Mizzou Curator this morning.

The athletic conference topic has generated intense fan interest and a division of opinion. Some from the KC area want to stay in the Big 12; however, a majority of the state favors the SEC, it seems. Some like the Big 10, but are wary because of the way they treated us a couple of years ago when Nebraska was favored over Missouri for membership.
Thanks for your continuing interest in and past support of the U. of Mo. There may come a time - perhaps soon - when you will be asked to help the U. of Mo. once again with respect to meeting some of its financial needs, and I hope we can continue to count on your support.

Rest assured, the Curators know of and have received literally thousands of messages such as yours. I can’t predict how this will play out, but it’s clear to me that a majority of the fan base favors getting out of the Big 12.

|Zach|
10-03-2011, 11:49 AM
@BlairKerkhoff
Blair Kerkhoff
MU Chancellor Brady Deaton recused himself from part of Big12prez teleconf on Sunday on advice from MU counsel.

http://twitter.com/#!/BlairKerkhoff/statuses/120902475258667008

eazyb81
10-03-2011, 11:51 AM
Neinas: Brady Deaton excused himself for part of yesterday's meeting per the advice of his legal council.

|Zach|
10-03-2011, 11:53 AM
@BlairKerkhoff
Blair Kerkhoff
Big 12 still doesn't know if it wants to stand at 9, 10 or 12 members, Neinas said. Neinas said that is unresolved.

Old Dog
10-03-2011, 11:57 AM
Mizzou's Homegaming game against ISU will be televised, well, nowhere. Gotta love this conference.


Are you sure it won't be televised on FOXSports?
OSU@ Texas is in the 3:30 ABC slot
Baylor @ A&M is also scheduled for 3:30
KSU @ Tech and OU @ KU are the other games that week. I'm not saying it WILL, but none of the three have a kickoff time set yet that I can see.

ChiTown
10-03-2011, 12:06 PM
Incidentally, this is the 100th Homecoming by the school that invented Homecoming.

You didn't invent Homecoming. Several schools lay claim to this earlier than MU's claim, including Illinois and Baylor.

eazyb81
10-03-2011, 12:08 PM
AAAAAND WE'RE BACK!

http://www.umsystem.edu/ums/news/public_notices/100411_public_notice

4:00pm Executive Session will be where the conference realignment discussion takes place.

mnchiefsguy
10-03-2011, 12:18 PM
AAAAAND WE'RE BACK!

http://www.umsystem.edu/ums/news/public_notices/100411_public_notice

4:00pm Executive Session will be where the conference realignment discussion takes place.

And now the long wait begins.

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 12:23 PM
Are you sure it won't be televised on FOXSports?
OSU@ Texas is in the 3:30 ABC slot
Baylor @ A&M is also scheduled for 3:30
KSU @ Tech and OU @ KU are the other games that week. I'm not saying it WILL, but none of the three have a kickoff time set yet that I can see.

KSU/Tech got the 6:00 FSN timeslot. OU@KU got ESPN2. Baylor/A&M gets FX.

Mizzou/ISU not televised. (maybe on PPV)

HolyHandgernade
10-03-2011, 12:32 PM
No more comments, just saw an article on 3rd Tier I thought was interesting and you might too:

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/05/06/school-specific-broadcasting-revenue/

Big 12

University of Kansas $7,276,988.00
Oklahoma State University $6,395,000.00
University of Nebraska $4,393,529.00
University of Missouri $4,081,549.00
Kansas State University $3,263,941.00
Iowa State University $2,608,896.00
University of Texas $338,171.00
University of Oklahoma $317,361.00
University of Colorado $155,528.00
Texas Tech University $0.00
Texas A&M University $0.00
Baylor N/A

mikeyis4dcats.
10-03-2011, 12:48 PM
Mizzou's Homegaming game against ISU will be televised, well, nowhere. Gotta love this conference.

Incidentally, this is the 100th Homecoming by the school that invented Homecoming.

that's a result of the play on the field, not the conference.

Saul Good
10-03-2011, 12:52 PM
You didn't invent Homecoming. Several schools lay claim to this earlier than MU's claim, including Illinois and Baylor.

Whatever you do, don't Google "what school invented homecoming".

KChiefs1
10-03-2011, 12:55 PM
From PowerMizzou.com:

Neinas speaks, Missouri sets meeting
Pete Scantlebury
PowerMizzou.com Recruiting Editor

Interim Big 12 commissioner Chuck Neinas answered questions in a 22-minute long teleconference on Monday as the embattled conference enters one of the most pivotal weeks in its 15-year history.


On Sunday, the Big 12 Board of Directors met and unanimously agreed on equal revenue distribution in regards to Tier 1 and Tier 2 television rights, as well as equal distribution across the board for men's basketball and the NCAA basketball tournament. While it was agreed on in principal, each team would have to grant its rights for Tier 1 and Tier 2 for at least six years.

"The idea of a longer term was discussed, but not rejected," Neinas said. "That's why we said at least six years. The board could choose to do something different in terms of duration."

While the Big 12 appears set to survive, Missouri has been at the heart of the future of the conference. Over the past few weeks, rumors swirled about the Tigers' less-than-lukewarm feeling to the new-look Big 12, especially in regards to the previously unequal distribution of revenue and ESPN's Longhorn Network. Neinas said he believed Sunday's agreement (in principle) would have a positive effect on Missouri.

"I do think they'll consider what we're doing," Neinas said. "We have some things in mind that I'm not prepared to reveal at this point. We're working in a positive way to improve the conference."

With the expansion committee activated and ready to approach new teams -- Neinas said there has been plenty of interest -- Missouri is still the key cog in the procedure. At noon Monday, the Missouri system announced a meeting of its board of curators scheduled for 4 PM Tuesday in St. Louis. The agenda has not been announced, but conference affiliation is rumored to be at the center of the meeting. It will be a closed session, and the administration will meet with reporters afterward.

MU chancellor Brady Deaton remains on the Big 12's expansion committee, although he is not the chairman. Neinas said he doesn't believe Deaton ever was the chairman, but admitted that he could be wrong.

On Sunday, Deaton took part in the Big 12 Board of Directors meeting, although Neinas said he recused himself from a certain part based on legal advice from his counsel. Neinas refused to answer a question about which part of the meeting in which Deaton refused to participate.

In such a pivotal week to the future shape and direction of the conference, Neinas said he will visit Columbia this week, as well as other schools, as he continues his tour of his newly inherited conference. Should Missouri still be undecided in its conference future, Neinas said his pitch will be a simple one based on tradition and geography.

"I think they have to look at not only what the future best interests are for the University of Missouri, but for the state of Missouri," Neinas said. "There's a lot to be considered not only for the institution but for the state. You know they have the Big 12 conference basketball tournament in Missouri, they've got the long running games with the University of Kansas which is their traditional rivalry, going back to, what, 1893? The other thing is it's one thing to talk about the Southeastern Conference, but how many people are going to be able to afford the travel to Gainesville, Fla., or Columbia, S.C., or Tuscaloosa, Ala.?

"John Q. Fan, he can get in the car and drive to Big 12 games. Besides, Missouri is Midwestern, not Southern."

All eyes will remain on Missouri until Tuesday evening.

Old Dog
10-03-2011, 12:55 PM
Baylors event in 1909 would predate Missouri by two years. I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's been argued for a long while over who established it.

Saul Good
10-03-2011, 12:56 PM
that's a result of the play on the field, not the conference.

This week will be our third road game against a ranked oppenent in our last four games. And we're favored.

eazyb81
10-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Dave Matter:
"Thunderous applause at today's @TigerQBClub luncheon in Columbia at the mention of joining the SEC. These fans are not divided."

mikeyis4dcats.
10-03-2011, 12:58 PM
Less than two weeks after Missouri's inaugural homecoming game, the school's newspaper, the University Missourian, acknowledged in its December 4, 1911 edition that Illinois, as well as other schools had preceded Mizzou. "The fall home-coming idea originated by Illinois last year is being taken up by several other universities. Indiana held hers at the Purdue-Indiana game. Wisconsin celebrated at the Wisconsin game and Missouri welcomed her 'old grads' back at the Missouri-Kansas game."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homecoming

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 01:03 PM
Wow - Neinas sounds like a bit of a tottering old jackass, doesn't he?

"I don't think Deaton was ever the chairman...though I could be wrong"

Fuckin' eh, man. You just took over a conference who's primary problem right now has been expansion and you don't know who the chair of the expansion committee was? I thought he was just playing a semantics game earlier - evidently he's just senile.

Yeah - let's get the hell out of dodge.

mikeyis4dcats.
10-03-2011, 01:19 PM
This week will be our third road game against a ranked oppenent in our last four games. And we're favored.

MU and ISU are both 2-2 right? O-2 in conference?

eazyb81
10-03-2011, 01:20 PM
Andy_Staples Andy Staples
I love Chuck Neinas pretending to be confused as people ask him whether Missouri is in or out. Neinas is much smarter than he's letting on.

Saul Good
10-03-2011, 01:25 PM
MU and ISU are both 2-2 right? O-2 in conference?

No and no

Saulbadguy
10-03-2011, 01:26 PM
that's a result of the play on the field, not the conference.

Yes and no.

DeezNutz
10-03-2011, 01:29 PM
No and no

Since Oklahoma is Daddy #2, that game should really count for two losses.

mikeyis4dcats.
10-03-2011, 01:35 PM
No and no
sorry, MU is 2-2 (0-1) and ISU is 3-1 (0-1). Hold me back, gonna be some great football!

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 01:36 PM
Man - get one major win in the fightin' Eko's and suddenly they get pretty damn uppity.

See you on Saturday.

DeezNutz
10-03-2011, 01:36 PM
sorry, MU is 2-2 (0-1) and ISU is 3-1 (0-1). Hold me back, gonna be some great football!

LMAO. Can't stop the Cats! Talk shit on these lesser programs!

DJ's left nut
10-03-2011, 01:37 PM
LMAO. Can't stop the Cats! Talk shit on these lesser programs!

Papa Snyder's put some serious wind in their sails, hasn't he?

|Zach|
10-03-2011, 01:38 PM
sorry, MU is 2-2 (0-1) and ISU is 3-1 (0-1). Hold me back, gonna be some great football!

Saucy.

DeezNutz
10-03-2011, 01:41 PM
Papa Snyder's put some serious wind in their sails, hasn't he?

Palpable bravado. Manhattan is an intimidating place, which is why KU can't shake the purple.

mikeyis4dcats.
10-03-2011, 01:44 PM
Man - get one major win in the fightin' Eko's and suddenly they get pretty damn uppity.

See you on Saturday.

You guys are the ones who seem to think you're too good for the rest of us in the Big 12....


I'm just saying, given the choices, it's no surprise MU-ISU got left out of tv.