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View Full Version : Chiefs RUN THE BALL!!


Buckweath
09-12-2011, 09:08 AM
Do you guys realize we averaged 6.0 YPC, the same as last year when we ran for 270 yards (6.1 YPC) on those Bills. Charles was having a very good day, same for McCluster.

We got behind by two scores and stopped running even though it was the only aspect that was working well. How could this happen? 6.0 YPC remember and we stop running against the worst rushing defense last year and trust that guy Cassell, are you kidding me?

The same happened against the Ravens in the playoffs, Charles was averaging 9 YPC (9 carries for 81 yards) and then Cody fell on Charles and we stopped running and it just got worse and worse...

We get behing in the game, I don't care just RUN THE FUCKING BALL

luv
09-12-2011, 09:09 AM
I thought this last night, but someone informed me we couldn't because of their nose tackle.

kcpasco
09-12-2011, 09:10 AM
Somewhere Charlie Weis is laughing his ass off.

Buckweath
09-12-2011, 09:12 AM
I thought this last night, but someone informed me we couldn't because of their nose tackle.

LOL, Kyle Williams was also their nose tackle last year when we ran for 270 yards and I repeat we were running for more than 6 YPC on that nose tackle yesterday. Haha really their nose tackle and I know he's one of the best in the league but everybody know our strength is not running up the gut.

jd1020
09-12-2011, 09:13 AM
I dont care how far down the Chiefs are in a game, they should never completely abandon the run like they did yesterday. I can't even say that they abandoned it because it didn't even seem to me like they wanted to run.

luv
09-12-2011, 09:23 AM
I dont care how far down the Chiefs are in a game, they should never completely abandon the run like they did yesterday. I can't even say that they abandoned it because it didn't even seem to me like they wanted to run.

Someone also told me that we probably didn't run because we were down so far. Well, we never really ran it before we got down that far.

Very frustrating being a Chiefs fan. Very frustrating.

luv
09-12-2011, 09:24 AM
I'll also say that I'm for anything that keeps Cassel from throwing the ball. Put in a different QB, run the ball, whatever.

KCrockaholic
09-12-2011, 09:33 AM
Somewhere Charlie Weis is laughing his ass off.

Weis had his fair share of issues as well. He was our coordinator for those last two games last year and the offense looked about the same as we saw yesterday.

With that said, Bill Muir is a disgrace to coaching. He has no business as OC. I'd take that from him today and give those responsibilities to either Zorn or Sirriani.

Bane
09-12-2011, 09:35 AM
Matt Fucking Cassel... Hahahahahaha Nom Nom Nom Nom /Weis

Chiefshrink
09-12-2011, 09:41 AM
Somewhere Charlie Weis is laughing his ass off.

This!!

Didn't see the game obviously because I chose not to get the ticket this year. Did see the highlights on NFL network which highlights don't give you the whole accurate context.

But it seems to me that even under Weis last season for the first half anyway we were all bitching that Charles was not getting enough carries as well and it seems it is starting out this year the same.

Question I have is did Weis want to give Charles more carries in the first half of the season last year but Haley had a leash on Weis until it was obvious that Charles needed more carries the second half of the season?

It started out the same way after Haley firing Gailey(1st yr), at it started out the same way under Weis. Anybody who gets pissed at Muir is very shortsighted.

This is allllllllllllllllllll Haley IMO.

jd1020
09-12-2011, 09:42 AM
Weis had his fair share of issues as well. He was our coordinator for those last two games last year and the offense looked about the same as we saw yesterday.

At that point, Weis was already dreaming about his Hover Round on Miami beaches.

Dartgod
09-12-2011, 09:45 AM
I'll also say that I'm for anything that keeps Cassel from throwing the ball. Put in a different QB, run the ball, whatever.
That's the thing that bugged me. We abandoned the run from the get-go.
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TEX
09-12-2011, 09:47 AM
Do you guys realize we averaged 6.0 YPC, the same as last year when we ran for 270 yards (6.1 YPC) on those Bills. Charles was having a very good day, same for McCluster.

We got behind by two scores and stopped running even though it was the only aspect that was working well. How could this happen? 6.0 YPC remember and we stop running against the worst rushing defense last year and trust that guy Cassell, are you kidding me?

The same happened against the Ravens in the playoffs, Charles was averaging 9 YPC (9 carries for 81 yards) and then Cody fell on Charles and we stopped running and it just got worse and worse...

We get behing in the game, I don't care just RUN THE ****ING BALL

Was YELLING the same thing yesterday only we were not running the ball from the start! The offensive game plan was a joke. The play-calling was worse. That idiot in the box was just as bad as Jimmy "3-play" Raye, except he forgot to run the ball...

kcpasco
09-12-2011, 09:52 AM
Weis had his fair share of issues as well. He was our coordinator for those last two games last year and the offense looked about the same as we saw yesterday.

With that said, Bill Muir is a disgrace to coaching. He has no business as OC. I'd take that from him today and give those responsibilities to either Zorn or Sirriani.

IMO Weis knew the limitations of Cassel and that's something Haley and the rest of the organization doesn't want to admit.

I like Haley and I really want to see him succeed but whatever kind of voodoo hex Cassel has on him makes me want to run my head through a brick wall.

jd1020
09-12-2011, 09:53 AM
IMO Weis knew the limitations of Cassel and that's something Haley and the rest of the organization doesn't want to admit.

I like Haley and I really want to see him succeed but whatever kind of voodoo hex Cassel has on him makes me want to run my head through a brick wall.

There isn't one. He's just not good and Pioli doesnt want to admit it.

track
09-12-2011, 09:59 AM
IMO Weis knew the limitations of Cassel and that's something Haley and the rest of the organization doesn't want to admit.

I like Haley and I really want to see him succeed but whatever kind of voodoo hex Cassel has on him makes me want to run my head through a brick wall.

Haley knows Cassel sucks. However, Pioli stuck him with cassel and there isn't much Haley can do about it now. The blame for cassel goes straight to Pioli...same with Tyson Jackson.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 10:01 AM
I agree with you guys. The run is the chiefs bread and butter. With that said, I don't think it was working as well as last year. While Charles finished the game with a very nice average of 5.6 ypc, if you take away his longest run he averaged a below average 3.7 ypc. If you take away Fred's longest run he drops from 5.6 ypc to 4.6 ypc. Still respectable. Nonetheless, the run is still your bread and butter.

jd1020
09-12-2011, 10:04 AM
I agree with you guys. The run is the chiefs bread and butter. With that said, I don't think it was working as well as last year. While Charles finished the game with a very nice average of 5.6 ypc, if you take away his longest run he averaged a below average 3.7 ypc. If you take away Fred's longest run he drops from 5.6 ypc to 4.6 ypc. Still respectable. Nonetheless, the run is still your bread and butter.

... That is very good insight. I never thought that taking away big plays and only looking at the average plays would reduce stats.

Add some tacklers to Chiefs D and Jackson probably averages maybe 3 ypc. Every run he bulldozed half the Chiefs D.

luv
09-12-2011, 10:04 AM
There isn't one. He's just not good and Pioli doesnt want to admit it.

I kind of feel this way too. I think this must be a man thing. Why can't you guys just admit when you're wrong and move on to rectify the problem instead of trying to make the wrong idea work? :p

Seriously. Maybe they were having Cassel throw more in order to try to prove that he sucks? Pretty sure that Pioli will just blame this performance on Cassel playing injured or something. Like his ribs cause him to stare down where he's getting ready to throw the ball or something.

kcpasco
09-12-2011, 10:07 AM
Haley knows Cassel sucks. However, Pioli stuck him with cassel and there isn't much Haley can do about it now. The blame for cassel goes straight to Pioli...same with Tyson Jackson.

Then he needs to nut the fuck up and say it. Cassel lingering around playing like dogshit isn't gonna save his job anymore then playing the yes man.

luv
09-12-2011, 10:07 AM
I agree with you guys. The run is the chiefs bread and butter. With that said, I don't think it was working as well as last year. While Charles finished the game with a very nice average of 5.6 ypc, if you take away his longest run he averaged a below average 3.7 ypc. If you take away Fred's longest run he drops from 5.6 ypc to 4.6 ypc. Still respectable. Nonetheless, the run is still your bread and butter.

Had he attempted to run the ball more, though, he might have had more longer runs. Six of one, half dozen of another, I guess.

MIAdragon
09-12-2011, 10:07 AM
Weis had his fair share of issues as well. He was our coordinator for those last two games last year and the offense looked about the same as we saw yesterday.

With that said, Bill Muir is a disgrace to coaching. He has no business as OC. I'd take that from him today and give those responsibilities to either Zorn or Sirriani.

Read your first sentence out loud and think about it for a moment. The big W was already 6 deep into a dozen Dunkin Doughnuts by that time.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 10:20 AM
... That is very good insight. I never thought that taking away big plays and only looking at the average plays would reduce stats.

Add some tacklers to Chiefs D and Jackson probably averages maybe 3 ypc. Every run he bulldozed half the Chiefs D.

Pretty sure I sense sarcasm. What I am trying to say, simply, is that it is easier for an offense to get going if a back is steadily gaining yards every carry. With Charles yesterday and the chiefs as a whole, they struggled to gain yards except for when they popped off a big run which was not often enough to get the offense in a good rhythm.

jd1020
09-12-2011, 10:22 AM
Pretty sure I sense sarcasm. What I am trying to say, simply, is that it is easier for an offense to get going if a back is steadily gaining yards every carry. With Charles yesterday and the chiefs as a whole, they struggled to gain yards except for when they popped off a big run which was not often enough to get the offense in a good rhythm.

They didn't run often enough to even get a chance. Did you even watch the game?

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 10:26 AM
They didn't run often enough to even get a chance. Did you even watch the game?

Well it is hard to run or pass when you are going 3 and out, 4 and out, 5 and out.

loochy
09-12-2011, 10:28 AM
Do you guys realize we averaged 6.0 YPC, the same as last year when we ran for 270 yards (6.1 YPC) on those Bills. Charles was having a very good day, same for McCluster.

We got behind by two scores and stopped running even though it was the only aspect that was working well. How could this happen? 6.0 YPC remember and we stop running against the worst rushing defense last year and trust that guy Cassell, are you kidding me?

The same happened against the Ravens in the playoffs, Charles was averaging 9 YPC (9 carries for 81 yards) and then Cody fell on Charles and we stopped running and it just got worse and worse...

We get behing in the game, I don't care just RUN THE FUCKING BALL

Someone decided that one of the rules of football was that you can only pass the ball when you are behind.

luv
09-12-2011, 10:29 AM
Well it is hard to run or pass when you are going 3 and out, 4 and out, 5 and out.

:spock: Well, you pretty much have to do one or the other to go anything and out.

We're saying we should have spent more time trying to run the ball. You're saying it wouldn't have mattered due to our ypc. We're saying our ypc would have been greater had we attempted to run the ball more instead of passing in the entire game.

Buckweath
09-12-2011, 10:32 AM
Well it is hard to run or pass when you are going 3 and out, 4 and out, 5 and out.

Hey Bills, the Chiefs finished 1st in rushing last year and Charles averaged 6.4 YPC by doing exactly what they did yesterday. A few long runs, a couple good gains and many short gains. Charles was having the same type of game he was having last year against tose same Bills, where he ran for 170 yards.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 10:35 AM
:spock: Well, you pretty much have to do one or the other to go anything and out.

We're saying we should have spent more time trying to run the ball. You're saying it wouldn't have mattered due to our ypc. We're saying our ypc would have been greater had we attempted to run the ball more instead of passing in the entire game.

Fair enough. I do agree that it should have been run, run, run, run, play action to Bowe or a TE for you guys. I disagree in that the running game would have gotten going. I think our last ranked run defense last year will be much improved this year. Nonetheless, odds are, you give a guy like Charles the ball 20+ times even if he is having a bad day running for less than 4.0 ypc, he is likely to take one to the house. Likely would not have mattered in this game though.

luv
09-12-2011, 10:38 AM
Fair enough. I do agree that it should have been run, run, run, run, play action to Bowe or a TE for you guys. I disagree in that the running game would have gotten going. I think our last ranked run defense last year will be much improved this year. Nonetheless, odds are, you give a guy like Charles the ball 20+ times even if he is having a bad day running for less than 4.0 ypc, he is likely to take one to the house. Likely would not have mattered in this game though.

And we don't know if he would have had a bad day yesterday, because we didn't run the ball.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 10:40 AM
Hey Bills, the Chiefs finished 1st in rushing last year and Charles averaged 6.4 YPC by doing exactly what they did yesterday. A few long runs, a couple good gains and many short gains. Charles was having the same type of game he was having last year against tose same Bills, where he ran for 170 yards.

I was at the game last year so I do remember. Even Thomas Jones got going on us. I recall a lot more runs in the 8-12 yard range but I guess that was because there were just more runs all-around. Chiefs got the ground game going early last year, couldn't this year and that was the difference I suppose.

4th and Long
09-12-2011, 10:40 AM
Where was this guy PRIOR to yesterday?

Tytanium
09-12-2011, 10:42 AM
Maybe if Charles would quit coughing up the ball every time a DT looked his way, we'd run the ball more? Just a thought.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 10:43 AM
And we don't know if he would have had a bad day yesterday, because we didn't run the ball.

I think if he was given another 10-15 carries his stat line at the end of the game would have looked good. 5+ ypc with a rushing TD. But it may have not necessarily moved the chains in a way to help the offense.

luv
09-12-2011, 10:43 AM
I was at the game last year so I do remember. Even Thomas Jones got going on us. I recall a lot more runs in the 8-12 yard range but I guess that was because there were just more runs all-around. Chiefs got the ground game going early last year, didn't this year and that was the difference I suppose.

FYP

BroncosBuff
09-12-2011, 10:44 AM
Hey Bills, the Chiefs finished 1st in rushing last year and Charles averaged 6.4 YPC by doing exactly what they did yesterday. A few long runs, a couple good gains and many short gains. Charles was having the same type of game he was having last year against tose same Bills, where he ran for 170 yards.

Get your head out of that A$$ called last season, this is a whole new season and the reality is you guys suck. o:-)

luv
09-12-2011, 10:45 AM
Where was this guy PRIOR to yesterday?

He's adding something constructive, which is more than I can say for the other troll lurking around here so far today. And I will feed whatever troll I feel like, tyvm.

loochy
09-12-2011, 10:47 AM
I was at the game last year so I do remember. Even Thomas Jones got going on us. I recall a lot more runs in the 8-12 yard range but I guess that was because there were just more runs all-around. Chiefs got the ground game going early last year, couldn't this year and that was the difference I suppose.

I think the difference was the fumbles, interception, incompetent playcalling, and the inability to cover some spare tight end.

patteeu
09-12-2011, 10:49 AM
The truth is that the Chiefs aren't that good at running the ball. They do well when they use deception, like running in passing situations, but they don't do all that well when they line up and try to power the ball.

luv
09-12-2011, 10:50 AM
I think the difference was the fumbles, interception, incompetent playcalling, and the inability to cover some spare tight end.

I'm not one to blame refs, but there were a few pretty bad calls yesterday. I don't know what they showed on TV, but I didn't see anything in the replays at the game that would have shown enough indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field of that Pope TD.

Otherwise, I think your post is spot on.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 10:50 AM
I think the difference was the fumbles, interception, incompetent playcalling, and the inability to cover some spare tight end.

Oh definitely, in fact the turnover battle is usually the deciding factor in nearly every game. Pretty sure my Bills had the worst turnover differential in the league last year.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 10:52 AM
The truth is that the Chiefs aren't that good at running the ball. They do well when they use deception, like running in passing situations, but they don't do all that well when they line up and try to power the ball.

You guys don't have Brian Waters anymore but other than that is the line pretty much the same? I'm hoping Waters is pretty much finished because I don't want to see him doing well in NE.

patteeu
09-12-2011, 10:53 AM
I'm not one to blame refs, but there were a few pretty bad calls yesterday. I don't know what they showed on TV, but I didn't see anything in the replays at the game that would have shown enough indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field of that Pope TD.

Otherwise, I think your post is spot on.

That was a good call.

patteeu
09-12-2011, 10:54 AM
You guys don't have Brian Waters anymore but other than that is the line pretty much the same? I'm hoping Waters is pretty much finished because I don't want to see him doing well in NE.

They really weren't as good at running the ball as statistics would suggest last year either. The line is pretty much the same except for Waters. RG Lilja moved over to LG and a 2nd year player, Asamoah, took over at RG.

luv
09-12-2011, 10:56 AM
That was a good call.

Hmm. You all must have seen more than we did.

Buckweath
09-12-2011, 10:57 AM
I think if he was given another 10-15 carries his stat line at the end of the game would have looked good. 5+ ypc with a rushing TD. But it may have not necessarily moved the chains in a way to help the offense.

The Chiefs are a running team, everybody knows that. And you say if we run the ball (and yesterday we were doing this well), it may not necessarily move the chains in a way to help the offense??

patteeu
09-12-2011, 10:57 AM
Hmm. You all must have seen more than we did.

That's not surprising. One of the things I really don't like about going to the game is the lack of replay coverage. And even when they do have the replay, it's much harder for me to see it on the scoreboard than on my TV at home.

loochy
09-12-2011, 10:57 AM
I'm not one to blame refs, but there were a few pretty bad calls yesterday. I don't know what they showed on TV, but I didn't see anything in the replays at the game that would have shown enough indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field of that Pope TD.

Otherwise, I think your post is spot on.

I didn't see the pope TD call either...I was at the gym listening on the radio at that point. Len and Mitch seemed to think it was the right call though.

jd1020
09-12-2011, 10:59 AM
It was pretty obvious he didn't have control of the ball. Hell... at one point it looked like the ball came completely out.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 11:01 AM
Hmm. You all must have seen more than we did.

It was very close. I think it was a good call. But if the teams were reversed I would have been pissed as a Bills fan.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 11:04 AM
It was pretty obvious he didn't have control of the ball. Hell... at one point it looked like the ball came completely out.

That was the deciding factor. Never got a good look as to whether or not it ever hit the ground cam close to it at the very least. But if he never had control when his knee or foot tapped before sliding out of bounds than it could not have been a catch.

patteeu
09-12-2011, 11:05 AM
The Chiefs are a running team, everybody knows that. And you say if we run the ball (and yesterday we were doing this well), it may not necessarily move the chains in a way to help the offense??

The Chiefs need to be a first down converting team.

BTW, they didn't really run the ball well until they were down 20-0. The one really good run before that point ended in a fumble.

Bills_In_Yo_Head
09-12-2011, 11:11 AM
The Chiefs need to be a first down converting team.

BTW, they didn't really run the ball well until they were down 20-0. The one really good run before that point ended in a fumble.

This is exactly what I was getting at buckweath. It is not always good to have a running game that is 0yds, 3yds, 4yds, 0yds, 3yds, 4yds, 0yds, 3yds, 4yds, 30yds. End result is 51 yds. 5.1 ypc. But it would be better for an offense to average 4yds, 6yds, 4yds, 6yds etc.

Buckweath
09-12-2011, 11:14 AM
The Chiefs need to be a first down converting team.

BTW, they didn't really run the ball well until they were down 20-0. The one really good run before that point ended in a fumble.

OK, it took a while to get going but at the end of the day and looking at the overall game the running game was potent (6.0 YPC) . Just do not abandon it, it's our strength. If it takes a while to get going, it hurts us but keep trying especially when the passing game is struggling too.

Buckweath
09-12-2011, 11:17 AM
This is exactly what I was getting at buckweath. It is not always good to have a running game that is 0yds, 3yds, 4yds, 0yds, 3yds, 4yds, 0yds, 3yds, 4yds, 30yds. End result is 51 yds. 5.1 ypc. But it would be better for an offense to average 4yds, 6yds, 4yds, 6yds etc.

True but my point is the Chiefs know they have a good running game (well I think so) and if it's struggling at first, just keep trying again and again even if we're behind by 2-3 scores. There are chances it will finally deblock and have those 4yads, 6yads, 4yds you're talking about and then the defense will have a rest and the offense might get fully going. If we had a top notch QB, i would be a different story.

patteeu
09-12-2011, 11:19 AM
OK, it took a while to get going but at the end of the day and looking at the overall game the running game was potent (6.0 YPC) . Just do not abandon it, it's our strength. If it takes a while to get going, it hurts us but keep trying especially when the passing game is struggling too.

Once you get behind by 20 points, the defense is going to soften up. The Chiefs shouldn't abandon the run, but they can't rely on it either. They need to be able to have success in a variety of ways so they can keep the defense off balance. They don't have the horses to go toe to toe with either the run or the pass.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-12-2011, 12:30 PM
You have to you know complete passes and move the chains to do so.