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DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 01:50 PM
Dude followed three teams last year: Pats, Falcons, and Chiefs:

"Sports commentator and bestselling author Michael Holley will follow three NFL teams from training camp 2010, through the Super Bowl, and into the April draft, providing a new look at Belichickís influence, which has now spread from the Patriots to other teams, particularly the KC Chiefs and the Atlanta Falcons."

Apparently, Weis was entirely in charge of the offensive calls in the playoff game, and Haley couldn't make any changes. (This bit is from 810, and the quotation is from the link.)

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2011/03/some-details-on-michael-holleys-new-book-war-room

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 01:54 PM
COULDN'T or DIDN'T?

Because those words have two very distinctive meanings. Sounds like a good book to pick up fo sho.

Stewie
09-20-2011, 01:56 PM
I heard KK read a few excerpts from the book (he has an advanced copy). It does not paint a pretty picture about the tensions from top to bottom, and this was when were WINNING last year.

Stewie
09-20-2011, 01:57 PM
COULDN'T or DIDN'T?

Because those words have two very distinctive meanings. Sounds like a good book to pick up fo sho.

Pioli told Haley that Weis was calling the plays, no discussion.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 01:58 PM
COULDN'T or DIDN'T?

Because those words have two very distinctive meanings. Sounds like a good book to pick up fo sho.

Oh, those are different?

Couldn't. Which is exactly why there "could" be so many reports of a divide at Arrowhead.

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Pioli told Haley that Weis was calling the plays, no discussion.

Wow.

Not sure what to think about that....

When does this book come out?

Pestilence
09-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Pioli told Haley that Weis was calling the plays, no discussion.

If that's true.....then Haley has been pretty much fucked from the beginning.

Brock
09-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Laz?

Stewie
09-20-2011, 02:00 PM
Wow.

Not sure what to think about that....

When does this book come out?

Beginning of November according to KK.

Amnorix
09-20-2011, 02:00 PM
Sounds good. Holley's Patriots Reign was very good.

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 02:01 PM
If that's true.....then Haley has been pretty much ****ed from the beginning.

This.

Imagine how awkward that must be for Weis as well, which would likely lead to his departure.

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 02:02 PM
Beginning of November according to KK.

Fuck that's too long. I want it now!

Chiefnj2
09-20-2011, 02:03 PM
The book will end after a nice draft and previous playoff appearance. Too bad he couldn't have stuck around for the "Suck for Luck" era.

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 02:04 PM
The book will end after a nice draft and previous playoff appearance. Too bad he couldn't have stuck around for the "Suck for Luck" era.

So then it should also cover Charlie's departure as well....

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 02:04 PM
I'm gonna have to get this book, especially because we'll be 0-whatever when it comes out....

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-20-2011, 02:06 PM
I heard KK read a few excerpts from the book (he has an advanced copy). It does not paint a pretty picture about the tensions from top to bottom, and this was when were WINNING last year.

When was this love to pull up pod cast

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 02:07 PM
It'll be especially interesting to see what the Chiefs were thinking when they Drafted Baldwin & Houston.

Frosty
09-20-2011, 02:07 PM
If that's true.....then Haley has been pretty much ****ed from the beginning.

If this is true, it may make it tough to get a quality coach after the season if/when Haley is fired.

Stewie
09-20-2011, 02:08 PM
When was this love to pull up pod cast

It was around 2:15 - 2:30 +/- a few minutes (central time).

Dayze
09-20-2011, 02:12 PM
if that's Piloi's ultimatum to Haley regarding Weiss, imagine the ultimatum to Haley regarding Cassel.

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 02:13 PM
if that's Piloi's ultimatum to Haley regarding Weiss, imagine the ultimatum to Haley regarding Cassel.

LMAO

I wonder if Pioli was this way with Belicheat, or if it was actually the other way around.

"Scott, get over here and fluff my nuts. NOW!"

"Yessir."

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2011, 02:15 PM
Just bought it for Kindle. Drops on November 8th.

http://www.amazon.com/War-Room-Belichick-Building-ebook/dp/B004W2ZOIK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1316549670&sr=8-2

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 02:15 PM
if that's Piloi's ultimatum to Haley regarding Weiss, imagine the ultimatum to Haley regarding Cassel.

:facepalm:

It almost makes you feel bad for Haley.

the Talking Can
09-20-2011, 02:16 PM
yeah someone has to report on this

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2011, 02:16 PM
yeah someone has to report on this

Done. I'll probably have it read within a day or so of release.

Pestilence
09-20-2011, 02:17 PM
It makes you wonder on what Haley has exactly had input on.

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 02:17 PM
yeah someone has to report on this

Give Nick Wright a few minutes to find it. :)

Not that I blame the guy, this is the place I would spend a lot of time if I had a talk radio show about KC sports.

Chocolate Hog
09-20-2011, 02:18 PM
Guys it's Charlie Weis & Matt Cassel. Not Charlie Weiss and Matt Cassell.

the Talking Can
09-20-2011, 02:18 PM
Done. I'll probably have it read within a day or so of release.

cool

FringeNC
09-20-2011, 02:20 PM
Wow. First the Michael Silver article, now this. Obviously, no way could Haley could bench Cassel.

Pants
09-20-2011, 02:21 PM
if that's Piloi's ultimatum to Haley regarding Weiss, imagine the ultimatum to Haley regarding Cassel.

Yeap, I've been saying this for a while now. Haley had no choice but to start Cassel this whole time.

The more stuff comes to light, the more I want fucking Pioli gone. They can keep Todd, he had that team bought in lock, stock and barrel last year. The guys really seemed to love their coach.

Scorp
09-20-2011, 02:21 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but I clearly remember Haley calling the offense in the second half of the playoff game. They even showed Weis in the booth doing nothing. Somebody tell me I am wrong here?

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 02:23 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but I clearly remember Haley calling the offense in the second half of he playoff game. They even showed Weis in the booth doing nothing. Somebody tell me I am wrong here?

Purely speculation. I haven't seen a game yet in which Haley is not starring at his play sheet. That doesn't mean he was calling the plays though.

BossChief
09-20-2011, 02:25 PM
NO coach can win big games with Cassel.

This also likely means Pioli put Weis and Crennel in place, too...not "the hc picks his assistants" we were lead to believe.

I bet Haley gets another hc job next year if he is fired this year

Pestilence
09-20-2011, 02:27 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but I clearly remember Haley calling the offense in the second half of the playoff game. They even showed Weis in the booth doing nothing. Somebody tell me I am wrong here?

Weis was probably relaying the plays down to Haley and then Haley was sending them in.

Chiefnj2
09-20-2011, 02:28 PM
NO coach can win big games with Cassel.

This also likely means Pioli put Weis and Crennel in place, too...not "the hc picks his assistants" we were lead to believe.

I bet Haley gets another hc job next year if he is fired this year

Maybe the women's lingerie football team since he likes to wear their sweaters.

Frosty
09-20-2011, 02:29 PM
Maybe the women's lingerie football team since he likes to wear their sweaters.

I've never seen anyone in the Lingerie Football League wear sweaters. ;)

Frankie
09-20-2011, 02:30 PM
If this is all true:

Pioli: A good draft + An average draft - A terrible draft + stubborn ego = one average draft = average GM

Haley: His players seemed to play hard for him until the Weis fiasco. This year they are not but maybe it's because of the FO distractions beyond Haley's control.

Maybe, :hmmm: between the two I'd want Haley to stay and Pioli gone. That won't happen of course, unless Clark dictates it.

Frankie
09-20-2011, 02:31 PM
I bet Haley gets another hc job next year if he is fired this year

And come back and beat our ass. :(

Frosty
09-20-2011, 02:32 PM
Maybe, :hmmm: between the two I'd want Haley to stay and Pioli gone. That won't happen of course, unless Clark dictates it.

I would think a new GM would be allowed to bring in their own choice for HC.

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-20-2011, 02:32 PM
It was around 2:15 - 2:30 +/- a few minutes (central time).

was michael on the show? he seems pissed on twitter this info came out

Stewie
09-20-2011, 02:34 PM
was michael on the show? he seems pissed on twitter this info came out

No, he was not. Keitzman has the book and was reading from it.

Chocolate Hog
09-20-2011, 02:35 PM
NO coach can win big games with Cassel.

This also likely means Pioli put Weis and Crennel in place, too...not "the hc picks his assistants" we were lead to believe.

I bet Haley gets another hc job next year if he is fired this year

Uh not if we get the first pick.

FringeNC
09-20-2011, 02:35 PM
What's a little interesting is that the Mike Silver article suggested that Pioli was trash talking Haley off the record. Why do that? Just fire him -- unless Clark said no, and you were looking for ammo...

This is a crazy situation. If I had to pick one of them to stay, I'd pick Haley. Pioli bet on Cassel and lost. If he can't evaluate a QB he was around forever in NE, you gotta question his ability.

Brock
09-20-2011, 02:39 PM
Well, with all of this going on behind the scenes, it shouldn't be a huge surprise what's happening on the field.

the Talking Can
09-20-2011, 02:39 PM
the fact that this kind of friction even exists in year 2 of a new regime is a ding on Pioli....he brought these people in, he's responsible for creating an environment where they can succeed...

Chiefnj2
09-20-2011, 02:40 PM
Weis should have been forced on Haley, because Weis did a much better job than Haley.

2009 - major suckage.
2010 - Cassel looks okay.
2011 - back to failure.

If Haley was handcuffed at the end of last year in an unreasonable manner, then he should have quit.

FringeNC
09-20-2011, 02:42 PM
the fact that this kind of friction even exists in year 2 of a new regime is a ding on Pioli....he brought these people in, he's responsible for creating an environment where they can succeed...

Yeah, after this makes its way around the league, the Oakland job is going to look good compared to ours.

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-20-2011, 02:42 PM
looks like we can put this to bed


MichaelSHolleyMichael Holley

@ChiefsandOsFan Interesting. There's no reference in the book of Pioli telling Haley that Weis was calling the plays.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2011, 02:43 PM
NO coach can win big games with Cassel.

This also likely means Pioli put Weis and Crennel in place, too...not "the hc picks his assistants" we were lead to believe.

I bet Haley gets another hc job next year if he is fired this year

I remember several people getting raked over the coals for having the gall to suggest that Haley didn't choose Weis and Crennel.

Brock
09-20-2011, 02:43 PM
Weis should have been forced on Haley, because Weis did a much better job than Haley.

2009 - major suckage.
2010 - Cassel looks okay.
2011 - back to failure.

If Haley was handcuffed at the end of last year in an unreasonable manner, then he should have quit.

I took it to mean Haley had no input into the playoff game only. Based on this stuff and the other article, it sounds like Haley might deserve a lot more credit than Weis did. Purely speculation obviously.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2011, 02:45 PM
What's a little interesting is that the Mike Silver article suggested that Pioli was trash talking Haley off the record. Why do that? Just fire him -- unless Clark said no, and you were looking for ammo...

This is a crazy situation. If I had to pick one of them to stay, I'd pick Haley. Pioli bet on Cassel and lost. If he can't evaluate a QB he was around forever in NE, you gotta question his ability.

It's too bad GM's don't have probationary periods. In a vacuum, Pioli should have been shitcanned as soon as he put Tyson Jackson's name on the card.

Stewie
09-20-2011, 02:50 PM
looks like we can put this to bed


MichaelSHolleyMichael Holley

@ChiefsandOsFan Interesting. There's no reference in the book of Pioli telling Haley that Weis was calling the plays.

Why did KK go on and on about it? Of course, KK is a dimwit.

JASONSAUTO
09-20-2011, 02:53 PM
looks like we can put this to bed


MichaelSHolleyMichael Holley

@ChiefsandOsFan Interesting. There's no reference in the book of Pioli telling Haley that Weis was calling the plays.

LOL

but people will still scream about it...

BossChief
09-20-2011, 02:57 PM
Damn, they just flashed something about the last two weeks in the NFL.

Week 1 broke the record for passing yards in a week for the league as a whole.

And meanwhile, we are stuck with a POS that broke another record for passing in week 1...

I have no doubt that Haley is a damn good coach and that Matt Fucking Cassel is gonna probably get him fired.

Next year we will hire Josh McDaniels as the coach and keep Cassel while selling the #1 pick to the highest bidder.

FML

tyler360
09-20-2011, 03:00 PM
I really think that Haley is going to be a very good HC in this league. Sadly I do not think it will be with us.

Another thing I am going to hate is the fact that Pioli will be given all sorts of credit if/when he picks Luck, and our teams fortunes turn around. He will have done nothing close to it, but will get too much credit.

durtyrute
09-20-2011, 03:01 PM
If this shit is true about Pioli, he can kick rocks and get the fuck out. Keep Haley, dump Cassel, and let's go

Pants
09-20-2011, 03:02 PM
Another thing I am going to hate is the fact that Pioli will be given all sorts of credit if/when he picks Luck, and our teams fortunes turn around. He will have done nothing close to it, but will get too much credit.

I honestly don't give a **** as long as he picks Luck.

Chiefnj2
09-20-2011, 03:04 PM
I can't believe people think Haley is a good head coach. Did you happen to watch tv this year? There's a team in red and yellow that is completely unprepared taking the field.

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 03:06 PM
It's too bad GM's don't have probationary periods. In a vacuum, Pioli should have been shitcanned as soon as he put Tyson Jackson's name on the card.

In retrospect, the Cassel deal was far worse than taking Jackson at 3. :deevee:

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2011, 03:09 PM
I can't believe people think Haley is a good head coach. Did you happen to watch tv this year? There's a team in red and yellow that is completely unprepared taking the field.

I don't get it either.

His time management is awful, as is his in-game decision making.

We all remember "The Plan," plays like 4-8-28, FB passes and God knows WTF he was thinking on Sunday when he deferred the opening kickoff and challenged the McGraw abortion.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2011, 03:09 PM
In retrospect, the Cassel deal was far worse than taking Jackson at 3. :deevee:

They are joined at the hip.

The true irony is that for a team $30 million under the cap they shelled out $120 million to those two turds.

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 03:12 PM
They are joined at the hip.

The true irony is that for a team $30 million under the cap they shelled out $120 million to those two turds.

And that abortion could lead to us landing Luck. Which makes Pioli look like a genius, because if Luck turns into the stud most think he will, Pioli built a winning machine.

Get a great QB and you look like a genius in the NFL. The Patriot Way, the Steelers 6 rings etc etc. Everyone is genius when you have a franchise QB. Everyone is an idiot that doesn't.

CoMoChief
09-20-2011, 03:13 PM
so if we suck for luck....and Pioli still has faith in MC, and decides to trade down or draft someone other than luck....what would CP do? Meltdown? ROFL

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 03:14 PM
so if we suck for luck....and Pioli still has faith in MC, and decides to trade down or draft someone other than luck....what would CP do? Meltdown? ROFL

I'd burn all my Chiefs shit and wait for regime change.

Dayze
09-20-2011, 03:14 PM
pretty much. I'd just watch NCAA football full-time.

FringeNC
09-20-2011, 03:14 PM
I can't believe people think Haley is a good head coach. Did you happen to watch tv this year? There's a team in red and yellow that is completely unprepared taking the field.

We will get blown out if we lose the turnover battle because we will be forced to pass and Cassel will start throwing interceptions -- that's true this year, last year, and in 2009. If you look at the yardage differential, this isn't Herm Edwards 2007- early 2008 where we'd get out gained by 400 yards in a game. This is turnover-driven shit, then it snowballs when Cassel starts throwing.

Tribal Warfare
09-20-2011, 03:17 PM
The next draft will be the Clark Hunt "fuck you guys I'm going to draft a 1st round QB" draft. As I said before even if Clark is a very mild football fan, he's still a businessman and he's not going to dig an empty stadium during home games. To raise interest among the fanbase again he'll issue an executive order to draft Luck when he's available.

Money talks, and bullshit walks

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 03:17 PM
We will get blown out if we lose the turnover battle because we will be forced to pass and Cassel will start throwing interceptions -- that's true this year, last year, and in 2009. If you look at the yardage differential, this isn't Herm Edwards 2007- early 2008 where we'd get out gained by 400 yards in a game. This is turnover-driven shit, then it snowballs when Cassel starts throwing.

You don't have Charles, Berry or Moeaki. My money is on Dorsey or Hali tearing their ACL this week.

For us to win Cassel is going to HAVE to throw, and we won't win with him doing that.

Detoxing
09-20-2011, 03:18 PM
We will get blown out if we lose the turnover battle because we will be forced to pass and Cassel will start throwing interceptions -- that's true this year, last year, and in 2009. If you look at the yardage differential, this isn't Herm Edwards 2007- early 2008 where we'd get out gained by 400 yards in a game. This is turnover-driven shit, then it snowballs when Cassel starts throwing.

OMG what is this? Is this a logical post about football that's not filled with with all this drama queen "Sky is falling" garbage that's been spewing lately?

Is this real life?

CoMoChief
09-20-2011, 03:18 PM
Damn, they just flashed something about the last two weeks in the NFL.

Week 1 broke the record for passing yards in a week for the league as a whole.

And meanwhile, we are stuck with a POS that broke another record for passing in week 1...

I have no doubt that Haley is a damn good coach and that Matt ****ing Cassel is gonna probably get him fired.

Next year we will hire Josh McDaniels as the coach and keep Cassel while selling the #1 pick to the highest bidder.

FML

If we had the 1st overall pick, and passed on Luck thinking that Cassel is the man for this team to win us games, then that right there would be enough to say "fuck the chiefs" and I'd be done supporting them financially.

JASONSAUTO
09-20-2011, 03:21 PM
The next draft will be the Clark Hunt "fuck you guys I'm going to draft a 1st round QB" draft. As I said before even if Clark is a very mild football fan, he's still a businessman and he's not going to dig an empty stadium during home games. To raise interest among the fanbase again he'll issue an executive order to draft Luck when he's available.

Money talks, and bullshit walks

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

this post is so full of fail.

and already building excuses for why pioli sucks even IF HE PICKS LUCK

againLMAOLMAOLMAO

FringeNC
09-20-2011, 03:21 PM
The next draft will be the Clark Hunt "**** you guys I'm going to draft a 1st round QB" draft. As I said before even if Clark is a very mild football fan, he's still a businessman and he's not going to dig an empty stadium during home games. To raise interest among the fanbase again he'll issue an executive order to draft Luck when he's available.

Money talks, and bullshit walks

That's right. If we get the #1 pick, it'll be because we are something like 1-15, and there is no way Hunt allows Pioli to take anyone but Luck.

HemiEd
09-20-2011, 03:28 PM
Well, with all of this going on behind the scenes, it shouldn't be a huge surprise what's happening on the field.

Bingo! A house divided..........

Marcellus
09-20-2011, 03:44 PM
And that abortion could lead to us landing Luck. Which makes Pioli look like a genius, because if Luck turns into the stud most think he will, Pioli built a winning machine.

Get a great QB and you look like a genius in the NFL. The Patriot Way, the Steelers 6 rings etc etc. Everyone is genius when you have a franchise QB. Everyone is an idiot that doesn't.



Belichick has Brady and hasn't done anything as a HC without him.
Steelers didn't do shit until Ben (Cower's only advantage over Marty, otherwise they are the same coach).
Colts - Manning
Rams & Arizona - Warner
GB- Rodgers
NO - Brees

Haley and Chiefs- Cassel

Hmmmmmm.:hmmm:

Chocolate Hog
09-20-2011, 03:46 PM
Those who suggest we'll pass on Andrew Luck are 9-11 truthers.

Chocolate Hog
09-20-2011, 03:48 PM
I don't understand this boards problem with Charlie Weis either.

Red Beans
09-20-2011, 03:50 PM
I don't understand this boards problem with Charlie Weis either.

It's becasue there's the general impression that he phoned in the last couple of weeks of the season and the playoff game. That and he's a huge lard ass...

BCD
09-20-2011, 03:52 PM
I don't understand this boards problem with Charlie Weis either.Overrated.

I don't get why some like to gargle his coinpurse.

It's like Saunders all over again.

jd1020
09-20-2011, 03:56 PM
Overrated.

I don't get why some like to gargle his coinpurse.

It's like Saunders all over again.

Weis is one of the more elite OC's in the sport.

Why are people all of a sudden defending Haley? The guy is 100% dumbass. I don't give a rats ass if Pioli is forcing Cassel on him. He's still responsible for preparing the team and coming up with a plan that doesnt embarass the organization. If he doesn't like Cassel then he needs to bench his ass when the games over and hes personally responsible for 4 turnovers. And there is no reason why Stanzi and Powe are inactive.

Marcellus
09-20-2011, 03:56 PM
Overrated.

I don't get why some like to gargle his coinpurse.

It's like Saunders all over again.

The exact same people that give Weis credit for Cassel having a decent year last year also say the only reason we won that many games and Cassel had a decent year was schedule.

It depends on which conversation they are in to determine which thing gets credit.

If its both because Weis was able to coax a decent season out of Cassel because of the weak schedule then, who gives a shit. Whoop de do. Yeaaaaaa.

BoltWalt
09-20-2011, 04:05 PM
Next year we will hire Josh McDaniels as the coach and keep Cassel while selling the #1 pick to the highest bidder.
Josh McDaniels will mean you trade for Tebow and suck for many more years.

BCD
09-20-2011, 04:06 PM
The exact same people that give Weis credit for Cassel having a decent year last year also say the only reason we won that many games and Cassel had a decent year was schedule.

It depends on which conversation they are in to determine which thing gets credit.

If its both because Weis was able to coax a decent season out of Cassel because of the weak schedule then, who gives a shit. Whoop de do. Yeaaaaaa.
I liked the Weis hire. I thought Cassel's good stretch of games last season was him finally 'getting it'. It wasn't. It was just poor competition.

Cassel was horrible in his 1st 2 games last season. The only difference is far fewer turnovers.

jd1020
09-20-2011, 04:08 PM
I liked the Weis hire. I thought Cassel's good stretch of games last season was him finally 'getting it'. It wasn't. It was just poor competition.

Cassel was horrible in his 1st 2 games last season. The only difference is far fewer turnovers.

What would you call the Bills and Lions? Elite competition?

Chocolate Hog
09-20-2011, 04:08 PM
The Bills and Lions aren't super bowl teams and Cassel has sucked. Cassel sucked in 09 and we played alot of shitty teams. Theres no doubt Weis helped Cassel.

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-20-2011, 04:28 PM
Matt Cassel doesn't see Haley-Pioli issue

September, 20, 2011
Sep 20

3:05

PM ET


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Comments32

By Bill Williamson

There has been a lot of talk in recent days about a fractured relationship in Kansas City between general manager Scott Pioli and coach Todd Haley after the Chiefs fell to 0-2, both blowout losses.

If there is a rift between the two men, it is apparently not being felt in the Chiefs’ locker room. In a radio interview, Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel was adamant that he doesn’t know anything about a problem up top.

“I haven’t heard that,” Cassel said. “I haven’t read that. I don’t know anything about that. To be completely honest, I haven’t seen that with my own two eyes. From what I see, they talk to each other in the building. They are communicating and everything. It looks great, so I don’t know anything. I can’t really speculate on the article or what is being said out there because I haven’t seen that or know anything about it.”

I have heard rumors about a Haley-Pioli problem since the offseason. That’s not totally uncommon. You hear a lot about a lot of things in NFL circles. I think the rumors are now coming to the surface because the Chiefs are losing.

I mean, it’s hard to say there are problems when a team turns around its fortunes as dramatically as Kansas City did last year. Now, that the pressure is on (Kansas City has been outscored 89-10 in the first two games), things like this start floating around.

Look, both Pioli and Haley are strong-willed, competitive men. I wouldn’t be shocked if they occasionally butt heads. But until Pioli fires Haley, I don’t think too much should be made of it.

It’s obvious Cassel isn’t worried about it.

BCD
09-20-2011, 04:30 PM
What would you call the Bills and Lions? Elite competition?Much improved. Sadly, the Chiefs made them look elite.

BCD
09-20-2011, 04:32 PM
The Bills and Lions aren't super bowl teams and Cassel has sucked. Cassel sucked in 09 and we played alot of shitty teams. Theres no doubt Weis helped Cassel.This, if you are correct, only proves what a shitty QB Cassel is if he wasn't able to retain anything from Weis.

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2011, 04:33 PM
Matt Cassel doesn't see Haley-Pioli issue

September, 20, 2011
Sep 20

3:05

PM ET


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Print
Comments32

By Bill Williamson

There has been a lot of talk in recent days about a fractured relationship in Kansas City between general manager Scott Pioli and coach Todd Haley after the Chiefs fell to 0-2, both blowout losses.

If there is a rift between the two men, it is apparently not being felt in the Chiefsí locker room. In a radio interview, Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel was adamant that he doesnít know anything about a problem up top.

ďI havenít heard that,Ē Cassel said. ďI havenít read that. I donít know anything about that. To be completely honest, I havenít seen that with my own two eyes. From what I see, they talk to each other in the building. They are communicating and everything. It looks great, so I donít know anything. I canít really speculate on the article or what is being said out there because I havenít seen that or know anything about it.Ē

I have heard rumors about a Haley-Pioli problem since the offseason. Thatís not totally uncommon. You hear a lot about a lot of things in NFL circles. I think the rumors are now coming to the surface because the Chiefs are losing.

I mean, itís hard to say there are problems when a team turns around its fortunes as dramatically as Kansas City did last year. Now, that the pressure is on (Kansas City has been outscored 89-10 in the first two games), things like this start floating around.

Look, both Pioli and Haley are strong-willed, competitive men. I wouldnít be shocked if they occasionally butt heads. But until Pioli fires Haley, I donít think too much should be made of it.

Itís obvious Cassel isnít worried about it.

Matt Cassel doesn't see wide open WR's, either.

Seriously, WTF else would he say?

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-20-2011, 04:33 PM
Matt Cassel doesn't see wide open WR's, either.
Seriously, WTF else would he say?



LMAOLMAO

BCD
09-20-2011, 04:37 PM
Matt Cassel doesn't see wide open WR's, either.

Seriously, WTF else would he say?Nice :LOL:

the Talking Can
09-20-2011, 04:38 PM
Matt Cassel doesn't see wide open WR's, either.

Seriously, WTF else would he say?


tee that shit up, and swing for the fence

Marcellus
09-20-2011, 05:05 PM
What would you call the Bills and Lions? Elite competition?

I would call them both 2-0.

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 05:07 PM
Matt Cassel doesn't see wide open WR's, either.

Seriously, WTF else would he say?

LMAO

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-20-2011, 05:10 PM
bobfescoeBob Fescoe
Michael Holley, author of War Room, behind the scenes with Scott Pioli joins us at 820 tomorrow morning #chiefs


looks like someone reads CP

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-20-2011, 05:14 PM
ArrowheadPrideArrowhead Pride
@MichaelSHolley Right, you even noted Haley disagreed w/ playcalling but knew "this was Weis's game to call."

MichaelSHolleyMichael Holley
@ArrowheadPride Definitely. That playoff game probably summed up the Weis-Haley relationship. Overall, just a lack of trust.

Pestilence
09-20-2011, 05:26 PM
Matt Cassel doesn't see wide open WR's, either.

Seriously, WTF else would he say?

Matt Cassel is like the child of parents who are about to get divorced.

Fritz88
09-20-2011, 05:39 PM
Matt Cassel doesn't see Haley-Pioli issue

September, 20, 2011
Sep 20

3:05

PM ET


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Comments32

By Bill Williamson

There has been a lot of talk in recent days about a fractured relationship in Kansas City between general manager Scott Pioli and coach Todd Haley after the Chiefs fell to 0-2, both blowout losses.

If there is a rift between the two men, it is apparently not being felt in the Chiefsí locker room. In a radio interview, Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel was adamant that he doesnít know anything about a problem up top.

ďI havenít heard that,Ē Cassel said. ďI havenít read that. I donít know anything about that. To be completely honest, I havenít seen that with my own two eyes. From what I see, they talk to each other in the building. They are communicating and everything. It looks great, so I donít know anything. I canít really speculate on the article or what is being said out there because I havenít seen that or know anything about it.Ē

I have heard rumors about a Haley-Pioli problem since the offseason. Thatís not totally uncommon. You hear a lot about a lot of things in NFL circles. I think the rumors are now coming to the surface because the Chiefs are losing.

I mean, itís hard to say there are problems when a team turns around its fortunes as dramatically as Kansas City did last year. Now, that the pressure is on (Kansas City has been outscored 89-10 in the first two games), things like this start floating around.

Look, both Pioli and Haley are strong-willed, competitive men. I wouldnít be shocked if they occasionally butt heads. But until Pioli fires Haley, I donít think too much should be made of it.

Itís obvious Cassel isnít worried about it.

Casshole is a shitty lair.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 05:40 PM
Not being able to feel the rift is probably a byproduct of always feeling phantom pressure; there's no room for much else.

Chocolate Hog
09-20-2011, 05:42 PM
This, if you are correct, only proves what a shitty QB Cassel is if he wasn't able to retain anything from Weis.

I'm not denying Cassel is a shitty QB but what I'm saying is Weis was able to mask his shittiness Haley isn't. Fuck Haley for not being able to get along.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 05:45 PM
I'm not denying Cassel is a shitty QB but what I'm saying is Weis was able to mask his shittiness Haley isn't. **** Haley for not being able to get along.

Given the apparent mandates coming from Pioli, it's unclear how much of a wedge was driven between Weis and Haley by the GM himself.

Such a screwed up situation. Embarrassing, frankly. Pioli won't speak to any of the local guys, but he tells pillow secrets to a NE douche.

By the way, where are all the Pats fans to spin this thing into a positive? To reassure us that Pioli and Cassel are really the goods?

BCD
09-20-2011, 05:46 PM
I'm not denying Cassel is a shitty QB but what I'm saying is Weis was able to mask his shittiness Haley isn't. Fuck Haley for not being able to get along.Haley doesn't have to get along. He's the HC. Weis should have known this. Who knows why Weis left?

BoltWalt
09-20-2011, 05:53 PM
Casshole is a shitty lair.
Apparently you are a shitty speller...

Chocolate Hog
09-20-2011, 06:05 PM
Given the apparent mandates coming from Pioli, it's unclear how much of a wedge was driven between Weis and Haley by the GM himself.

Such a screwed up situation. Embarrassing, frankly. Pioli won't speak to any of the local guys, but he tells pillow secrets to a NE douche.

By the way, where are all the Pats fans to spin this thing into a positive? To reassure us that Pioli and Cassel are really the goods?

If we're picking #1 overall both should be fired.

crispystl420
09-20-2011, 06:26 PM
We will get blown out if we lose the turnover battle because we will be forced to pass and Cassel will start throwing interceptions -- that's true this year, last year, and in 2009. If you look at the yardage differential, this isn't Herm Edwards 2007- early 2008 where we'd get out gained by 400 yards in a game. This is turnover-driven shit, then it snowballs when Cassel starts throwing.

Nice Post!

The Bad Guy
09-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Pioli's not getting fired. No chance at all of that happening.

Haley is a different story.

From what I've heard about Clark from someone who has given me good info in the past is that he's completely soured on Cassel and Haley.

The preseason plan to play starters in the 4th game was Haley's and Haley's alone. I think, and this is just from me, Pioli wanted to give Haley enough rope to hang himself.

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2011, 06:36 PM
Pioli's not getting fired. No chance at all of that happening.

Haley is a different story.

From what I've heard about Clark from someone who has given me good info in the past is that he's completely soured on Cassel and Haley.

The preseason plan to play starters in the 4th game was Haley's and Haley's alone. I think, and this is just from me, Pioli wanted to give Haley enough rope to hang himself.

So Clark has "soured" on the HC and QB, but not the guy who HIRED the HC and QB.

Interesting.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2011, 06:38 PM
So Clark has "soured" on the HC and QB, but not the guy who HIRED the HC and QB.

Interesting.

Logically, it makes no sense if you look at the situation on its own. But if you consider the fact that Pioli is probably the one who Clark maintains direct contact with, it makes sense, as he's able to play the political game in such a way that insulates himself from his mistakes.

One of the many reasons why it sucks to be in middle management is because you are often the first fall guy for the fuck ups of upper management. This probably will be no different.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2011, 06:49 PM
So Clark has "soured" on the HC and QB, but not the guy who HIRED the HC and QB.

Interesting.

Clark and Pioli are practically BFF's. Pioli is going to be here well beyond his 5 year deal.

FringeNC
09-20-2011, 06:50 PM
Pioli's not getting fired. No chance at all of that happening.

Haley is a different story.

From what I've heard about Clark from someone who has given me good info in the past is that he's completely soured on Cassel and Haley.

The preseason plan to play starters in the 4th game was Haley's and Haley's alone. I think, and this is just from me, Pioli wanted to give Haley enough rope to hang himself.

Not sure that makes sense, but it's probably true. If Clark thinks Cassel sucks, you'd think he'd cut Haley some slack, given that Cassel was forced on Haley.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2011, 06:53 PM
Not sure that makes sense, but it's probably true. If Clark thinks Cassel sucks, you'd think he'd cut Haley some slack, given that Cassel was forced on Haley.

I think Clark views them as separate issues.

From what I was also told today is that Zorn doesn't have any confidence at all in Cassel that he can lead this team. Weis told Clark when he left that the team will never go anywhere with Cassel as well.

xztop12
09-20-2011, 06:54 PM
thats pretty cool why didnt anyone know about this prior

The Bad Guy
09-20-2011, 06:56 PM
thats pretty cool why didnt anyone know about this prior

I don't know. I also don't know if I can believe everything I hear from this guy either.

I'm just putting it out there for discussion. I've gotten some good info from him the past that I've shared, some not so good that I've shared and kept quiet.

This would go along with Shefter saying that things are bad, real bad in KC. Along with Kevin Harlan.

dirk digler
09-20-2011, 06:58 PM
I think Clark views them as separate issues.

From what I was also told today is that Zorn doesn't have any confidence at all in Cassel that he can lead this team. Weis told Clark when he left that the team will never go anywhere with Cassel as well.

Excellent info that you have provided. Though I am a little bit curious if that is the case why didn't they bring in a veteran QB to challenge\backup Cassel?

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-20-2011, 06:59 PM
Excellent info that you have provided. Though I am a little bit curious if that is the case why didn't they bring in a veteran QB to challenge\backup Cassel?

They cost money.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2011, 06:59 PM
Excellent info that you have provided. Though I am a little bit curious if that is the case why didn't they bring in a veteran QB to challenge\backup Cassel?

I don't have the answer to that.

I can think that they want to just put Cassel out there and if he falls flat, they can walk away since most of the money has been paid already.

The team was in a tough spot with him throwing 27 TDs last year. If he played this bad last year, he'd have been gone this year.

Expect to hear about a ton of scouts at Stanford games moving forward.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2011, 07:02 PM
I can't wait to read this book though. I was given a lot of info about the Chiefs from 3 different guys last year and want to see if Holley confirms it in the book.

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2011, 07:03 PM
Logically, it makes no sense if you look at the situation on its own. But if you consider the fact that Pioli is probably the one who Clark maintains direct contact with, it makes sense, as he's able to play the political game in such a way that insulates himself from his mistakes.

One of the many reasons why it sucks to be in middle management is because you are often the first fall guy for the fuck ups of upper management. This probably will be no different.

Good point.

Clark and Pioli are practically BFF's. Pioli is going to be here well beyond his 5 year deal.

http://i51.tinypic.com/24epe1y.gif

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 07:09 PM
I think Clark views them as separate issues.


I'm not criticizing the info. you provided at all because I think it's great that you're willing to throw these topics out for discussion; this is what makes this forum the best when it comes to Chiefs news, and it's a shame that some douches try to circumvent this.

That said, how in the world can these be separate issues? When Cassel was traded for, many said, "Cassel must be legit. because no one knows more about him than Pioli."

Clark isn't a stupid sonofabitch, so he has to understand the massive amount of fail here. Dude might not know a lot about football, but he was a good student at SMU, so demonstrating a basic level of competency is beyond expected.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2011, 07:15 PM
Excellent info that you have provided. Though I am a little bit curious if that is the case why didn't they bring in a veteran QB to challenge\backup Cassel?

This is what kills me. Trading for Cassel was a mistake. But I can live with that mistake. The arrogance that after 2009, the front office was so intent on proving they were right that for 2 years, they didn't even try to find anybody to compete? Same with the Nose Tackle position. It was almost as if they were so intent that this system would work that they wanted to prove they could build a team with minimal attention from our two most important positions.

I'm not a fan of Sanchez so I don't care that we passed on him. While I'm not a huge fan of Clausen, why not take a shot at him in the second? And I'm pretty sure the Chiefs really wish they took Dalton over Baldwin in the first this year.

dirk digler
09-20-2011, 07:19 PM
I don't have the answer to that.

I can think that they want to just put Cassel out there and if he falls flat, they can walk away since most of the money has been paid already.

The team was in a tough spot with him throwing 27 TDs last year. If he played this bad last year, he'd have been gone this year.

Expect to hear about a ton of scouts at Stanford games moving forward.

Good points.

I just think it is a little strange if they didn't have confidence in the guy not to have some kind of backup besides Palko and inactivate Stanzi.

dirk digler
09-20-2011, 07:22 PM
This is what kills me. Trading for Cassel was a mistake. But I can live with that mistake. The arrogance that after 2009, the front office was so intent on proving they were right that for 2 years, they didn't even try to find anybody to compete? Same with the Nose Tackle position. It was almost as if they were so intent that this system would work that they wanted to prove they could build a team with minimal attention from our two most important positions.

I'm not a fan of Sanchez so I don't care that we passed on him. While I'm not a huge fan of Clausen, why not take a shot at him in the second? And I'm pretty sure the Chiefs really wish they took Dalton over Baldwin in the first this year.

Yep I agree. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless it is all about ego, kind of like having Sabby and McGraw as your backup safeties.

BCD
09-20-2011, 07:31 PM
It would be nice to be a fly on Pioli's wall.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 07:39 PM
It would be nice to be a fly on Pioli's wall.

Fuck that. And endure the smell of him continually shitting himself?

Pats fans: where are you at? You've been here consistently since '09, and now you need to come defend your boys. Do we need to start an apology thread for you?

BCD
09-20-2011, 07:42 PM
Fuck that. And endure the smell of him continually shitting himself?

Pats fans: where are you at? You've been here consistently since '09, and now you need to come defend your boys. Do we need to start an apology thread for you?

Well, in this scenario, I'm a fly. Flys like shit.

Frankie
09-20-2011, 07:51 PM
I have no doubt that Haley is a damn good coach and that Matt ****ing Cassel is gonna probably get him fired.I still do think that Haley potentially is a successful NFL coach. And I agonize about your second point here too.

Next year we will hire Josh McDaniels as the coach and keep Cassel while selling the #1 pick to the highest bidder.
:banghead::banghead: It would be antifreeze time.

If this shit is true about Pioli, he can kick rocks and get the **** out. Keep Haley, dump Cassel, and let's goOnly Clark can do that. GMs hire and fire HCs, not the other way around.

I can't believe people think Haley is a good head coach. Did you happen to watch tv this year? There's a team in red and yellow that is completely unprepared taking the field. You couldn't say that for most of LAST year.

It's becasue there's the general impression that he phoned in the last couple of weeks of the season and the playoff game. That and he's a huge lard ass...
That and the fact that he sucked as a HC at Notre Dame.
It's like Saunders all over again.Looks like Oakland's O is doing well this year.

It would be nice to be a fly on Pioli's wall.Unless it's his bathroom wall.

FringeNC
09-20-2011, 08:27 PM
I think Clark views them as separate issues.

From what I was also told today is that Zorn doesn't have any confidence at all in Cassel that he can lead this team. Weis told Clark when he left that the team will never go anywhere with Cassel as well.

Thanks for the info. Any rumors on what the staff think about Stanzi?

BCD
09-20-2011, 08:59 PM
I can't believe people think Haley is a good head coach. Did you happen to watch tv this year? There's a team in red and yellow that is completely unprepared taking the field.Shitty QBs make the whole team look like shit.

philfree
09-20-2011, 09:14 PM
It's going to be very intersting to see how Clark reacts to an empty Arrowhead on a Monday Nighter with Cassel blowing chuncks and the Chiefs losing by 30+ points. I hope he works as hard as fixing this team as he did negotiating the new CBA.

Epic Fail 007
09-20-2011, 09:19 PM
and we thought carl was bad,scotts 10 xs worse

Marcellus
09-20-2011, 09:20 PM
and we thought carl was bad,scotts 10 xs worse

Pioli would have to screw up for another 17 years to reach Carl status.

He wont get that long.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 09:48 PM
Pioli would have to screw up for another 17 years to reach Carl status.

He wont get that long.

90s Carl, thus far, would walk Pioli like a fucking dog. Absolutely would own him.

Bewbies
09-20-2011, 09:52 PM
90s Carl, thus far, would walk Pioli like a ****ing dog. Absolutely would own him.

Based on what we later saw from Carl, and what's been going on in SD, I'd say 90's Marty is who would walk Pioli.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 10:00 PM
Based on what we later saw from Carl, and what's been going on in SD, I'd say 90's Marty is who would walk Pioli.

And who brought Marty here?

Dude could/would never win a SB, but neither will Haley. What Marty could do, better than anyone, is prepare a team for the regular season. The difference in physicality between a Marty-coached team and a Haley-coached team would be like a dad fighting his 12-year-old son.

It would be an impressive ass beating.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2011, 10:08 PM
And who brought Marty here?

Dude could/would never win a SB, but neither will Haley. What Marty could do, better than anyone, is prepare a team for the regular season. The difference in physicality between a Marty-coached team and a Haley-coached team would be like a dad fighting his 12-year-old son.

It would be an impressive ass beating.

Well, Marty was the best at that, so tough shoes to fill.

I think Haley made a big mistake in underpreparing the Chiefs for the beginning of the season. He took a gamble and it didn't work. I don't think he should lose his job for that.

In terms of preparation, think that's an unfair comment to make. I thought they won a lot of games last year moreso from preparation than talent. There's only so much you can do to prepare a team. How many games was our defense just plain gassed because Cassel couldn't extend drives? And how much did our team's lack of depth feed into players getting outphysicalled later in games?

I still think that the unfortunate first two games this season aside, Haley does a good job of prepping his players. Honestly, the Chiefs started the Detroit game off very well. An unfortunate roughing call, a missed FG by our "not as good as advertised" kicker, and a devastating injury... those are 3 good ways to send your team in a downward spiral real fast.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 10:15 PM
Well, Marty was the best at that, so tough shoes to fill.

I think Haley made a big mistake in underpreparing the Chiefs for the beginning of the season. He took a gamble and it didn't work. I don't think he should lose his job for that.

In terms of preparation, think that's an unfair comment to make. I thought they won a lot of games last year moreso from preparation than talent. There's only so much you can do to prepare a team. How many games was our defense just plain gassed because Cassel couldn't extend drives? And how much did our team's lack of depth feed into players getting outphysicalled later in games?

I still think that the unfortunate first two games this season aside, Haley does a good job of prepping his players. Honestly, the Chiefs started the Detroit game off very well. An unfortunate roughing call, a missed FG by our "not as good as advertised" kicker, and a devastating injury... those are 3 good ways to send your team in a downward spiral real fast.

The talent on this roster is undervalued as fuck, IMO. We have legit players at key positions on both sides of the ball.

Brock
09-20-2011, 10:21 PM
The talent on this roster is undervalued as fuck, IMO. We have legit players at key positions on both sides of the ball.

Yes, no excuses. This is coaching fail.

BCD
09-20-2011, 10:23 PM
Yes, no excuses. This is coaching fail.

I tend to believe it's more QB fail.

Brock
09-20-2011, 10:23 PM
I tend to believe it's more QB fail.

There isn't one phase of this team that's going well. None.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 10:25 PM
I tend to believe it's more QB fail.

I dislike Cassel more than anyone, and he's certainly put the team in terrible positions, but ****: teams have hung 89 points on this sack of a team, while we've...what?...managed?...10?

Sorry. He might be the most important piece of fail, but he's not the only piece.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2011, 10:27 PM
The talent on this roster is undervalued as ****, IMO. We have legit players at key positions on both sides of the ball.

Our running game hit a wall halfway through last season because our damn QB was struggling against 8-man fronts and defenses were stacking the box. Our defense always looked gassed because our pass offense couldn't convert on third downs and extend drives, so by the 4th quarter, they had been on the field all game long. Haley's formula actually worked last year when we actually extended drives. And 9 times out of 10, the drive killer was our QB not being able to get the ball downfield.

Our team didn't lose games last year because of lack of preparation. How easy is it to prepare a gameplan that works around your weaknesses at QB? In most games where Cassel was solid, we smoked those teams.

milkman
09-20-2011, 10:30 PM
I dislike Cassel more than anyone, and he's certainly put the team in terrible positions, but ****: teams have hung 89 points on this sack of a team, while we've...what?...managed?...10?

Sorry. He might be the most important piece of fail, but he's not the only piece.

Look around the league.

Teams are putting up yards and scoring points by the bucket load.

You can not play defense in this league anymore.

You have to move the chains and score points.

The Chiefs aren't doing that, and they are turning the ball over and giving opponents more scoring opportunities.

We're getting our shit kicked in because we can't score and we are trying to win with defense in an offensive league.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2011, 10:32 PM
Our running game hit a wall halfway through last season because our damn QB was struggling against 8-man fronts and defenses were stacking the box. .

No it didn't. Not even close, really. It hit a wall in two games because we got housed by Denver and San Diego and had to throw every down.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2011, 10:32 PM
I dislike Cassel more than anyone, and he's certainly put the team in terrible positions, but ****: teams have hung 89 points on this sack of a team, while we've...what?...managed?...10?

Sorry. He might be the most important piece of fail, but he's not the only piece.

The first game is all on Haley.

The second game... was that really lack of preparation? Did lack of preparation force McGraw to fumble on a key turnover? Is that what forced Succop to miss a makeable field goal? Is that what forced Charles out to injury?

Those three things happening on almost consecutive drives... you can't have that many momentum killers that early and not expect some struggles. And of course, without Charles, the whole team changes. How many coaches could have actually won with Cassel leading a Charles-less offense?

BCD
09-20-2011, 10:33 PM
I dislike Cassel more than anyone, and he's certainly put the team in terrible positions, but ****: teams have hung 89 points on this sack of a team, while we've...what?...managed?...10?

Sorry. He might be the most important piece of fail, but he's not the only piece.

Thats alot of points given up, but I don't place much blame on the D. 9 turnovers in 2 games is too much to ask of your D. Look at Pitt vs Baltimore. Steelers coughed it up 7 times. I don't care how good your D is, you can't repeatedly put it in that position. It's going to break down.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 10:37 PM
Thats alot of points given up, but I don't place much blame on the D. 9 turnovers in 2 games is too much to ask of your D. Look at Pitt vs Baltimore. Steelers coughed it up 7 times. I don't care how good your D is, you can't repeatedly put it in that position. It's going to break down.

Break? Understandable. Blow the fuck up? Unacceptable.

Still weak as hell up the middle, Berry notwithstanding. Missed tackles upon missed tackles. Personal fouls, etc.

Coaching.

Pioli is still criminal number one, but we're best served in the interim focusing our anger on Haley because he's still a piece of shit and there can be change at this level. Hoodie's ball boy is getting another hire.

Chris Meck
09-20-2011, 10:38 PM
I agree.

It's the offensive ineptitude constantly putting the defense in a hole that is the biggest problem.

I think you really CAN still play defense in this league, although really good offenses are going to get their shots in. Look at what Pittsburgh did THIS week, for example-
I mean, clearly Seattle's not a good team, but still.

The week before, the Steelers turn it over a bunch and got whooped. So there's a perfect case in point.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2011, 10:40 PM
Break? Understandable. Blow the fuck up? Unacceptable.

Still weak as hell up the middle, Berry notwithstanding. Missed tackles upon missed tackles. Personal fouls, etc.

Coaching.

Pioli is still criminal number one, but we're best served in the interim focusing our anger on Haley because he's still a piece of shit and there can be change at this level. Hoodie's ball boy is getting another hire.

Pioli's the bigger piece of shit, so having him in the crosshairs should have a downwind effect on Haley anyway. It's a bit pie-eyed, but I'd at least like to kill one bird and injure the second with one stone even if we can't snuff out the lecherous winged beast with the first toss.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 10:42 PM
even if we can't snuff out the lecherous winged beast with the first toss.

Yep, it's football season. LMAO. And I was so looking forward to tossing back Olympia's Extra Dry at Reaper's place.

No doubt that Pioli helps to advise the chancellor's office.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2011, 10:44 PM
Break? Understandable. Blow the **** up? Unacceptable.

Still weak as hell up the middle, Berry notwithstanding. Missed tackles upon missed tackles. Personal fouls, etc.

Coaching.

Pioli is still criminal number one, but we're best served in the interim focusing our anger on Haley because he's still a piece of shit and there can be change at this level. Hoodie's ball boy is getting another hire.

Let me ask you this....
Okay, we know Haley screwed up by not conditioning his players for game 1. That was a pure mistake.

That mistake aside, how would Haley do with even an average QB? How about an actual Nose Tackle? And is the 2-gap defense the product of Haley or is it the product of Pioli forcing the 2-gap system onto Haley? And how would Haley do if this team was anywhere near the cap number?

And given how this team is pretty shallow with playmakers, what happens when you lose three by the first half of the second game of the season?

I don't understand blaming Haley beyond the lack of conditioning mistake. The front office left him without any talent at the two most critical positions. And bad luck took away playmakers on an already shallow team.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 10:50 PM
Let me ask you this....
Okay, we know Haley screwed up by not conditioning his players for game 1. That was a pure mistake.

That mistake aside, how would Haley do with even an average QB? How about an actual Nose Tackle? And is the 2-gap defense the product of Haley or is it the product of Pioli forcing the 2-gap system onto Haley? And how would Haley do if this team was anywhere near the cap number?

And given how this team is pretty shallow with playmakers, what happens when you lose three by the first half of the second game of the season?

I don't understand blaming Haley beyond the lack of conditioning mistake. The front office left him without any talent at the two most critical positions. And bad luck took away playmakers on an already shallow team.

You're asking me to defend a GM whom I firmly believe is dumb as ****. Can't do it. However, I think you're conveniently forgetting the wonders of '09 Haley left to his own devices (4/7/37!!! or some shit).

Herm >>>>> '09 Haley. The Weis (forced?) acquisition put much of '10 in doubt about how far Haley's influence stretched.

Now we know that it's his ship again, and he's promptly shit all over the deck.

Worst case, he's collateral damage. If so, **** him. One step closer to the primary target.

chiefzilla1501
09-20-2011, 11:00 PM
You're asking me to defend a GM whom I firmly believe is dumb as ****. Can't do it. However, I think you're conveniently forgetting the wonders of '09 Haley left to his own devices (4/7/37!!! or some shit).

Herm >>>>> '09 Haley. The Weis (forced?) acquisition put much of '10 in doubt about how far Haley's influence stretched.

Now we know that it's his ship again, and he's promptly shit all over the deck.

Worse case, he's collateral damage. If so, **** him. One step closer to the primary target.

I think it's a little rough to measure a coach based on his inability to turn a talentless team in '09 into a winner, or a team missing 3 ultra-key starters in 2011. Especially when you're already asking him to coach a team with few free agent upgrades and limited talent at QB and Nose Tackle.

Like I said, Haley fucked up big time by not conditioning this team. I think they very easily could have beaten Baltimore last year with a real QB. And I think before Charles went down, if the players execute their plays, the Chiefs were playing very well against Detroit.

He wasn't given much, was stripped of what little he had, he's forced to start severely underqualified backups, and was given nothing at the two most critical positions in the game. I still believe when Cassel played like a real QB last year they looked like a legit playoff team. When he didn't, they kept games closer than they should have and other times were flat-out embarrassed. Haley should get heat for game 1, but it's unfair to criticize him for getting handed one hell of a lemon. I still believe that with a real QB and with a team that at least competes for normal cap dollars, Haley would be a very effective coach.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 11:03 PM
I think it's a little rough to measure a coach based on his inability to turn a talentless team in '09 into a winner, or a team missing 3 ultra-key starters in 2011. Especially when you're already asking him to coach a team with few free agent upgrades and limited talent at QB and Nose Tackle.

Like I said, Haley ****ed up big time by not conditioning this team. I think they very easily could have beaten Baltimore last year with a real QB. And I think before Charles went down, if the players execute their plays, the Chiefs were playing very well against Detroit.

He wasn't given much, was stripped of what little he had, he's forced to start severely underqualified backups, and was given nothing at the two most critical positions in the game. I still believe when Cassel played like a real QB last year they looked like a legit playoff team. When he didn't, they kept games closer than they should have and other times were flat-out embarrassed. Haley should get heat for game 1, but it's unfair to criticize him for getting handed one hell of a lemon. I still believe that with a real QB and with a team that at least competes for normal cap dollars, Haley would be a very effective coach.

We can agree to disagree, but the bold is horse shit in my view.

And in '09, I'm talking about his game-day decisions when criticizing his performance; Herm was more astute.

BigRock
09-20-2011, 11:22 PM
The preseason plan to play starters in the 4th game was Haley's and Haley's alone. I think, and this is just from me, Pioli wanted to give Haley enough rope to hang himself.

I've mentioned this before and apparently hardly anyone else heard this, but Pioli did an interview with Sirius during camp. He couldn't have been more on-board with the preseason plan.

Everything was "we" this and "we" that. "We" called up coaches and trainers who were around during the last lockout, asking them how they handled things back then. "We" talked to people in the CFL, who have to get guys ready for the season with a shorter camp and fewer preseason games. Etc etc etc.

At the very least, he described it like the idea, the research, and the implementation was all a 50/50 affair with he and Haley. And I might have been hearing something that wasn't there, but IMO, if the team had started off hot, I thought Pioli left just enough room, did just enough ground work, to get himself in position where he could get the credit for it.

And who knows, maybe he was lying. But before it went sour, he sure had his arms wrapped around it, giving it a big wet smooch. So he hardly gets to back away now.

cdcox
09-21-2011, 12:01 AM
Time to assign blame.

I blame Clark for requiring Pioli to go through the charade of evaluating Herm. I blame Clark for letting Pioli talk him into Yet Another Retread Quarterback. I blame Clark for holding the purse strings so tight that we don't have sufficient depth at most positions.

I blame Pioli for Cassel. There were a lot of people on here, including myself, who didn't feel like he had enough up side to invest the years it would take to develop him. I blame Pioli for Tyson Jackson. That wasn't a great draft talent-wise, but to take a non-superstar at a low-value position is just shit for brains. I blame Pioli for any disharmony in the organization. If you are a top-dog control freak, that's fine, but you have to make that work. You have to hire a coach that is on your page. You have to find a coach that shares your vision and will work with you. You have to give that guy enough freedom to hire his own guys. If you handpicked the QB and are a major influence on the selection of the coordinators and it doesn't work, that's on you, because you cannot make your own leadership style work for the organization.

Frankly, I don't know what to blame Haley for. I'm sure there is plenty, but with the veil of secrecy that surrounds Arrowhead, we are left to sort out the he said, she said, I just don't know what to make of it. So for me, the shit travels up stream. I think Haley is pretty much stuck working within a pretty small box after Clark and Pioli have had their influence. With the control he does have he's done some good and done some bad. I think Haley becomes a casualty of war -- how much blame he holds for his eventual demise is hard for us to assess.

I don't like the secrecy and the rumors. It never works in favor of an organization. I would prefer a much more open structure where the lines of blame, credit, and responsibility are transparent and respected.

Clark and Pioli need to man up. So far they have trotted Haley in front of the microphone and let him take all the bullets while they are hiding timidly underneath his skirt. The thing is a skirt doesn't protect you very well from the bullets.

Frankie
09-21-2011, 01:32 PM
I blame Clark for holding the purse strings so tight that we don't have sufficient depth at most positions. his skirt. The thing is a skirt doesn't protect you very well from the bullets.

This most of all. This is the era in which teams build more quickly due to free agency. Yes the draft is of utmost importance, but that's adding only 7 unproven players at best. A good team builds not only through astute drafting, but also competitiveness in bringing in the right amount of experienced vets.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2011, 04:23 PM
Fescoe asks for a clarification: "So Scott Pioli never told Todd Haley that Charlie Weis had to call the plays and there's nothing he could do about it?"

Holley's response: "Absolutely not."


http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/9/21/2440303/michael-holley-book-war-room#storyjump

BCD
09-21-2011, 05:12 PM
Fescoe asks for a clarification: "So Scott Pioli never told Todd Haley that Charlie Weis had to call the plays and there's nothing he could do about it?"

Holley's response: "Absolutely not."


http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/9/21/2440303/michael-holley-book-war-room#storyjump
And your point is?...

Douche Baggins
09-21-2011, 05:20 PM
So it's entirely possible that Haley took control of playcalling based on that quote.

BCD
09-21-2011, 05:44 PM
So it's entirely possible that Haley took control of playcalling based on that quote.
From the link in your sig. This gave me chills... The Kansas City Chiefs and Andrew Luck are a match made in heaven. Keeping Todd Haley at head coach and Matt Cassel at quarterback makes this team an irrelevant lost cause. Finding a new regime at Head Coach and handing a team with so many Super Bowl pieces in place who just needs a quarterback like Luck makes Kansas City a dynasty team that could end up winning back to back Super Bowls.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2011, 06:23 PM
So it's entirely possible that Haley took control of playcalling based on that quote.

Lol all except the fact that he went on to say haley didn't call the plays in that game. Damn boy...
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