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Frosty
09-20-2011, 06:54 PM
I know there are a few car salesmen here on CP and I was hoping that I could get some help.

KBB and NADA on the net are fairly worthless and the car dealers will generally scoff at them. I was wondering if I could get actual wholesale values on the following cars:

2009 Subaru Forester 2.5XT w/ Alloy Value Package

14,600 miles, Carmallia Pearl Red Very clean


2005 Chevy Silverado 1500 Extended Cab Z71 4x4 pickup

32,800 miles, Metallic Dark Gray, 5.3L HO V8, sliding rear window, electronic transfer case, 17" alloy wheels, tow package Very clean

This is in the Spokane, WA area (zip 99208)

I'm basically looking at the price difference between the two (trading the pickup for the Forester).

Thanks for any help.

MahiMike
09-20-2011, 06:57 PM
Paging Burt...

Frosty
09-20-2011, 07:03 PM
Paging Burt...

Yeah, I was thinking of Burt but I think there are a couple of others, too.

Frosty
09-20-2011, 07:06 PM
Crap. I forgot to mention that the Subie has a manual transmission and the pickup an auto.

mlyonsd
09-20-2011, 07:10 PM
If it helps I'll give you a thousand for either one. You don't even have to deliver it.

DeezNutz
09-20-2011, 07:12 PM
If it helps I'll give you a thousand for either one. You don't even have to deliver it.

I'll go $3000 cash. You choose the types of bills, and I'll even throw in floor mats for your new vehicle.

DaFace
09-20-2011, 07:12 PM
I've always been a fan of edmunds.com, personally. Kind of curious to know what the car peeps think about it, though.

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-20-2011, 07:14 PM
I sold cars for a little while... I'm no expert... but in my experience the salesmen/dealerships scoff at KBB and NADA because they have a price they want and those 2 resources say it should be higher. Stand your ground. They need to make a sale and you can go somewhere else.

Edit... less not more

Frosty
09-20-2011, 07:56 PM
I've always been a fan of edmunds.com, personally. Kind of curious to know what the car peeps think about it, though.

I like Edmunds, too, but I was curious how they matched up.

Edmunds shows them about $3000 apart at trade-in value.

Frosty
09-20-2011, 07:57 PM
If it helps I'll give you a thousand for either one. You don't even have to deliver it.

I'll have to pass.

However, if I buy the Subaru, I'll be selling my '91 Sidekick so, if you double your offer, you are welcome to that. Would be a great rig for where you are.

CosmicPal
09-20-2011, 08:16 PM
Funny, I was just looking at a 2008 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. It is in beautiful condition. Only 30,000 miles on it. Kelly Blue book had it at $23,000 which is what they were selling it for. I talked them down to $19,000 but wanted it even less than that. They wouldn't budge, so I walked out.

They've been calling me the past couple of days now and leaving messages, "Hey, we got it at the price you want! Come get your car!"

Needless to say, I haven't called them back. I doubt they have it where I want them.

Frosty
09-21-2011, 05:52 AM
Bump for the day crew.

jjjayb
09-21-2011, 07:10 AM
Use autotrader's trade-in marketplace. They actually guarantee the value they give you. Make sure you put good descriptions of any flaws in the comments. Use a junkmail email address because you will get emails from dealers. But use an email you have access to though. Sometimes they have to email you the value if they have to have a real person book it out.

https://tradein.autotrader.com/ATPages/TradeInMarketPlace.aspx

burt
09-21-2011, 07:34 AM
I sold cars for a little while... I'm no expert... but in my experience the salesmen/dealerships scoff at KBB and NADA because they have a price they want and those 2 resources say it should be higher. Stand your ground. They need to make a sale and you can go somewhere else.

Edit... less not more

This is fairly close to reality.

KBB, NADA and Edmunds will all tell you how much they believe a vehicle to be worth based on all kinds of research. But if they won't buy it, it really isn't worth that much.

If you take 25 seasoned car salesmen and ask them how much a vehicle is worth, you will most likely get a spread of at least $5k. If you took said vehicle to 25 dealers.....probably a $3k spread. Used Car managers have better research tools at their diposal.

That being said, there are many factors in appraising a vehicle. Has it been in an accident? Has it had paint work? What condition is it in, inside and out? How does the motor run? Tranny? After going through a vehicle to decide the condition, an appraiser will consult what that vehicle has sold for at auto auctions. And that varies in every market. For instance, a Subaru will be worth more in the Denver area than in KC. Great cars but not as appreciated in KC as in the Denver area.

The 2 best tools to decide what your vehicle is worth is NADA BLACK BOOK, rough to fair condition or take it to Carmax.

The Black Book is a compilation of what specific vehicles have recently sold for at auctions based on Excellent, Good, Fair and rough condition. Unfortunately, unless you have a very rare vehicle, you will probably get between rough to fair. If a trade in doesn't sell, a dealership wants to be able to dump it at the auction without losing too much money.

Carmax will appraise your vehicle and tell you what they will give you for the vehicle, weather you buy a vehicle from them or not. This is a tact that I suggest to friends.

If someone really reserches, they can find out how much a new vehicle costs. Used cars and trades are always a variable.

Horse trading just aint easy.

Frosty
09-21-2011, 07:34 AM
Use autotrader's trade-in marketplace. They actually guarantee the value they give you. Make sure you put good descriptions of any flaws in the comments. Use a junkmail email address because you will get emails from dealers. But use an email you have access to though. Sometimes they have to email you the value if they have to have a real person book it out.

https://tradein.autotrader.com/ATPages/TradeInMarketPlace.aspx

Thanks. The numbers seem to be be pretty close to edmunds.com at $2500 apart.

burt
09-21-2011, 07:38 AM
Funny, I was just looking at a 2008 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. It is in beautiful condition. Only 30,000 miles on it. Kelly Blue book had it at $23,000 which is what they were selling it for. I talked them down to $19,000 but wanted it even less than that. They wouldn't budge, so I walked out.

They've been calling me the past couple of days now and leaving messages, "Hey, we got it at the price you want! Come get your car!"

Needless to say, I haven't called them back. I doubt they have it where I want them.

I have NEVER understood this. If they could do your number, they should have done it while you were there! When I was managing, that was how I id business!

Frosty
09-21-2011, 07:40 AM
Carmax will appraise your vehicle and tell you what they will give you for the vehicle, weather you buy a vehicle from them or not. This is a tact that I suggest to friends.

Thanks Burt. There aren't any Carmax dealers around here and it wouldn't help me to figure out a good price for the Subaru anyway, since it's on a dealer's lot.

The NADA Black Book is available only to dealers, right? I know that is what they go by, which is why I was hoping someone here could look them up for me.

burt
09-21-2011, 07:51 AM
Thanks Burt. There aren't any Carmax dealers around here and it wouldn't help me to figure out a good price for the Subaru anyway, since it's on a dealer's lot.

The NADA Black Book is available only to dealers, right? I know that is what they go by, which is why I was hoping someone here could look them up for me.

If I were you, I would print up KBB trade in values on both vehicles and take them into the dealer with me. Being kind of a prick, I would also print up retail on both, then at some point ask the salesman, are we going to be at wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail?

Once again, sooooo many variables. I is much easier to be on my side of the desk than yours.

Oh, and yes Black Book is only available to dealers. If you are feeling ballsy, ask to use the dealers black book. They can only say yes or no. And dealers account for every dollar spent on advertising so they feel that they have already spent over $300 just to get you in the door. The good dealers do not want you walking out without evey effort to get you in a vehicle of theirs.

Frosty
09-21-2011, 07:59 AM
If I were you, I would print up KBB trade in values on both vehicles and take them into the dealer with me. Being kind of a prick, I would also print up retail on both, then at some point ask the salesman, are we going to be at wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail?

Once again, sooooo many variables. I is much easier to be on my side of the desk than yours.

Oh, and yes Black Book is only available to dealers. If you are feeling ballsy, ask to use the dealers black book. They can only say yes or no. And dealers account for every dollar spent on advertising so they feel that they have already spent over $300 just to get you in the door. The good dealers do not want you walking out without evey effort to get you in a vehicle of theirs.

Thanks Burt.

I have been looking at the trade-in and retail price difference between my truck and their Subie on KBB, NADA, edmunds.com and, thanks to the suggestion above, autotrader.com. I was planning on taking that difference (around $2500 on average), adding in some profit for the dealer and adding in tax and license and basically make a take it or leave it "out the door" offer.

Is there a good rule of thumb for the profit difference?

burt
09-21-2011, 08:13 AM
Thanks Burt.

I have been looking at the trade-in and retail price difference between my truck and their Subie on KBB, NADA, edmunds.com and, thanks to the suggestion above, autotrader.com. I was planning on taking that difference (around $2500 on average), adding in some profit for the dealer and adding in tax and license and basically make a take it or leave it "out the door" offer.

Is there a good rule of thumb for the profit difference?

I would offer the $2500, and let them worry about the profit. That's their problem, not yours. Besides, they will start the negotiating at retail for theirs and below wholesale for yours. I guarantee it.

Frosty
09-21-2011, 12:57 PM
I would offer the $2500, and let them worry about the profit. That's their problem, not yours. Besides, they will start the negotiating at retail for theirs and below wholesale for yours. I guarantee it.

They started at $7K difference and we got down to $4800 at which point they were willing to let me walk, so I ended up taking that.

If I can sell my Suzuki at a decent price, the gas mileage and insurance difference will make this a wash financially.

Thanks for your help.