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View Full Version : Chiefs Michael Holley on Fescoe, now


Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:26 AM
I'll give updates.

Rooster
09-21-2011, 08:26 AM
:popcorn:

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:27 AM
Starts with fluff, it's a follow-up on Patriot Reign, goes back to 1991 to present.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:30 AM
He was with Pioli on the ride to the Baltimore playoff game.

People are distorting this game. A fan tweeted him yesterday saying Pioli took playcalling away from Haley. Author - not true. That's not in the book. Flat out lie.

The book says: "Pioli stands near press box, his face is red, missed opprtnties 1st half (KC down 10-7 at half). In locker room Haley is upset Bowe wasn't targeted. Some Ravens D, some Bowe, some on Weis. Haley realized it wasn't time to switch things up, it was Weis' game to call."

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:32 AM
Haley tells author that he's upset with Weis, the score, the tenor of the game. Haley wouldn't take away playcalling because it is good leadership, it's not because Pioli told him anything.

Pioli never told Haley that Weis had to call plays.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:33 AM
It would never happen in a game where a head coach would take playcalling away from the OC in the playoffs.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:34 AM
From what he saw, Haley and Weis are two brash guys with firey personalities just weren't a good match.

Mojo Jojo
09-21-2011, 08:34 AM
Holley is calling out Keitz right now for lying yesterday...or at least misreading the passage. This guy is upset for what Keitz said. LOL this is funny KK and WHB getting there ass kicked on air.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:36 AM
Weis was a good playcaller, but is a Jersey-guy brash. Similar personalities, that just didnt' work.

Doesn't know why the hire was made in the 1st place. Not something he looked into.

Fescoe says he would have kept Weis over Haley, Holley asks why. He's surprised someone would say it. Charlie is a great offensive mind, not HC material.

Relation Pioli and Haley is next

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:37 AM
Says Pioli and Haley are a pretty normal GM/head coach relationship.

He was in on day 3 of the draft.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:37 AM
Before every pick Pioli would stand at draftboard with Haley. They talked about what team needed and had normal interactions. Similar to how Pioli worked with Belichick.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:38 AM
He didn't see anything out of the ordinary between Haley and Pioli.

Bane
09-21-2011, 08:38 AM
Hmmm.Sounds like a big fucking mess to me.

durtyrute
09-21-2011, 08:38 AM
Did he use "brash and firey, who aren't a good match" to describe Haley and Pioli or Haley and Weis?

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:40 AM
Pioli isn't a wannabe coach. He's comfortable being GM.

Is Pioli arrogant? He doesn't think so. Doesn't know why Whitlock called him egoli. Nobody in New England felt that way. Patriots are much tougher than KC is on lockdown of info.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:40 AM
Did he use "brash and firey, who aren't a good match" to describe Haley and Pioli or Haley and Weis?

Haley and Weis.

durtyrute
09-21-2011, 08:40 AM
Haley and Weis.

Thank you

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:41 AM
Scouts say Pioli will test them and work them hard. But, he's not a micro-manager.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:44 AM
Media relations all depend on whether team is winning or not.

Belichick horrible media relations in Cleveland, good in NE.

dallaschiefsfan
09-21-2011, 08:44 AM
He's totally ripping on the false idea that Pioli is an egomaniac...invited Fescoe to call anyone in the Boston media and they would confirm Whitlock's idea of him are not consistent with who they know.

This sure is blowing up a lot of people's preferred narratives...

KCUnited
09-21-2011, 08:45 AM
Pizzagate being destroyed in irony.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:47 AM
He's surprised there is talk of a strained relationship between Haley and Pioli. Where is it coming from? No proof of it. Pioli isn't Jerry Jones. Doesn't want to be in the huddle.

Pioli just doesn't want to be out front in the media. Pioli wants Haley to be out front. His comfort layer is behind the scenes assembling the roster.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:48 AM
He heard so many outrageous stories about Carl Peterson. Didn't give details.

dallaschiefsfan
09-21-2011, 08:49 AM
Narratives are falling...unless we're going to go conspiracy theory on this guy and consider him a New England Tree PR man. I personally doubt it. It seems like he's an actual journalist.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:49 AM
That's it.

Dave Lane
09-21-2011, 08:50 AM
I'm starting to believe Nick and KK were children separated at birth. Between those two and Jack Harry its like venturing into DC. Massive hate and half truths.

dallaschiefsfan
09-21-2011, 08:50 AM
Yeah...basically emphasizing that Pioli ≠Carl. Carl was a true egomaniac based on stories...

Deberg_1990
09-21-2011, 08:50 AM
Says Pioli demanded Charles get more carries in the 1st Oakland game last year, Haley told him to shove it. First obvious friction between the two...

dallaschiefsfan
09-21-2011, 08:51 AM
I'm starting to believe Nick and KK were children separated at birth. Between those two and Jack Harry its like venturing into DC. Massive hate and half truths.

And don't forget their cousins on this board...drama queens.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:51 AM
Long story short:

Didn't see any friction between Pioli and Haley. Pioli and Haley worked the draft similar to how Pioli worked it with Belichick. Pioli didn't make any orders about who calls plays. Pioli isn't a micro-manager, isn't a Jerry Jones.

Haley and Weis weren't an ideal fit because they both have similar brash personalities. Weis kept playcalling duties throughout his stay.

Dave Lane
09-21-2011, 08:53 AM
He's totally ripping on the false idea that Pioli is an egomaniac...invited Fescoe to call anyone in the Boston media and they would confirm Whitlock's idea of him are not consistent with who they know.

This sure is blowing up a lot of people's preferred narratives...

Pioli has never seemed like it in interviews. Seems pretty down to earth.

Frosty
09-21-2011, 08:53 AM
Thanks for the updates, Chiefnj2

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2011, 08:54 AM
Says Pioli demanded Charles get more carries in the 1st Oakland game last year, Haley told him to shove it. First obvious friction between the two...

huh?

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 08:54 AM
Never said anything bad about Cassel.

Specifically said at halftime of Ravens game Haley blamed partial lack of success in scoring on the Ravens D, playcalling and Bowe.

redhed
09-21-2011, 08:55 AM
bu-bu-bu-but whitlock said...
:rolleyes:

Mr. Kotter
09-21-2011, 09:03 AM
He's surprised there is talk of a strained relationship between Haley and Pioli. Where is it coming from? No proof of it. Pioli isn't Jerry Jones. Doesn't want to be in the huddle.

Pioli just doesn't want to be out front in the media. Pioli wants Haley to be out front. His comfort layer is behind the scenes assembling the roster.

Sports media, led by Whitlock, are sometimes a bunch of sniveling, whiney crybabies. They don't like the "secrecy" and lack of access...so they invent shit out of thin air. Do Pioli and Haley have issues? On occasion, yeah they probably do. It doesn't appear to be anything on the level suggested by so many media clowns. Journalists have too much estrogen flowing through their veins, and will mistake normal macho disagreement and posturing for overblown drama that conceals some underlying non-existent "issue."

Exhibit A: Whitlock.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Holley basically shot down all the theories about discord between Haley and Pioli and Pioli forcing things on Haley. Pioli isn't like that, has never been like that and wouldn't be comfortable with it.

Marcellus
09-21-2011, 09:18 AM
In other words, Chiefs Planet is full of shit concerning all of their theories on what they know is going on behind the scenes?

Say it ain't so. LMAO.

I think the general consensus is if we were winning which is the GM and HC's job to make happen, nobody would care. Aside from the crap on the field, (not down playing the significance) it doesn't sound like there is any discontent.

Haley will be around a while and I for 1 am glad. Pioli, maybe not so much.

The arrogance BS has always cracked me up because other than Whitlock there has been no other source to confirm any of Whitlocks accusations.

Mr. Kotter
09-21-2011, 09:19 AM
Holley basically shot down all the theories about discord between Haley and Pioli and Pioli forcing things on Haley. Pioli isn't like that, has never been like that and wouldn't be comfortable with it.

Not surprising at all. Whitlock has moved from shit-stirrer, to attention-starved drama queen who invents shit in an attempt to stay relevant.

Doing that on a discussion board is one thing; making a living at it...even if it's profitable, should be humiliating and embarrassing.

bobbything
09-21-2011, 09:21 AM
Holley basically shot down all the theories about discord between Haley and Pioli and Pioli forcing things on Haley. Pioli isn't like that, has never been like that and wouldn't be comfortable with it.
The one thing that Kietzman brought up yesterday, which I thought was a valid point, was that the Chiefs are very secretive about everything with the local media, yet they let this guy write a book about the inner workings of their organization. Why?

I mean, I don't really care that much, other than I'd prefer the Chiefs be a little more transparent with what's going on. Simply because I'm a fan and I want to know. It seems like the local media never gets anything out of the organization other than company speak, which makes for pretty boring stuff.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 09:26 AM
The one thing that Kietzman brought up yesterday, which I thought was a valid point, was that the Chiefs are very secretive about everything with the local media, yet they let this guy write a book about the inner workings of their organization. Why?

I mean, I don't really care that much, other than I'd prefer the Chiefs be a little more transparent with what's going on. Simply because I'm a fan and I want to know. It seems like the local media never gets anything out of the organization other than company speak, which makes for pretty boring stuff.

They talked about that. This guy has had a relationship with the Pats for years. He's known Scott, Bill and Demitroff for years. He may have known them a bit in Cleveland.

I believe he said it was Belichicks idea to be really closed off with the media and Scott followed along because he's a shy guy and doesn't want to be in the spotlight. He was comfortable with Bill's approach because it suited his personality. He carried it over when he came to KC, just not as much. NE much stricter than KC with access - can't interview assistant coaches/coordinators, etc.

When teams are winning the access isn't an issue anyone cares about. The fan doesn't care a reporter has a tough job when the team is 5-0. When the team is 0-5 then everyone will pick on anything.

ct
09-21-2011, 09:29 AM
The one thing that Kietzman brought up yesterday, which I thought was a valid point, was that the Chiefs are very secretive about everything with the local media, yet they let this guy write a book about the inner workings of their organization. Why?

I mean, I don't really care that much, other than I'd prefer the Chiefs be a little more transparent with what's going on. Simply because I'm a fan and I want to know. It seems like the local media never gets anything out of the organization other than company speak, which makes for pretty boring stuff.

Inner workings of the organization does not give away any tactical personnel advantages.

RippedmyFlesh
09-21-2011, 09:39 AM
Inner workings of the organization does not give away any tactical personnel advantages.

True but I like the secretive response towards injuries.
No reason to give an opponent a target.

Dave Lane
09-21-2011, 09:58 AM
Maybe because the local media other than Nick Wright and Soren Petro are completely uninformed morans. I wouldn't trust KK to watch my pet rock.

The one thing that Kietzman brought up yesterday, which I thought was a valid point, was that the Chiefs are very secretive about everything with the local media, yet they let this guy write a book about the inner workings of their organization. Why?

I mean, I don't really care that much, other than I'd prefer the Chiefs be a little more transparent with what's going on. Simply because I'm a fan and I want to know. It seems like the local media never gets anything out of the organization other than company speak, which makes for pretty boring stuff.

keg in kc
09-21-2011, 10:02 AM
So many conspiracy theories go boom.

TheGuardian
09-21-2011, 10:03 AM
So basically Whitlock and a bunch of fuckers here just make shit up with nothing to stand on?

No way.

doomy3
09-21-2011, 10:04 AM
Too funny.

Red Beans
09-21-2011, 10:05 AM
So basically Whitlock and a bunch of ****ers here just make shit up with nothing to stand on?

No way.

So weird. Whitlock is such a credible journalist. That fat tub of shit is always butt hurt about something. He needs hormone therapy casue I think he's going through menopause, and has been for the last 5 years...

TheGuardian
09-21-2011, 10:07 AM
So weird. Whitlock is such a credible journalist. That fat tub of shit is always butt hurt about something. He needs hormone therapy casue I think he's going through menopause, and has been for the last 5 years...

I've never thought of Whitlock as a credible journalist. I've always thought of him as a guy that stirs the pot to get attention. Doesn't matter if what he says has any truth behind it. I think more than anything he calls him Egoli because he doesn't have access to him, and it appears the reason that is, is because Pioli IS NOT an egomaniac. Talk about irony.

Red Beans
09-21-2011, 10:08 AM
I've never thought of Whitlock as a credible journalist. I've always thought of him as a guy that stirs the pot to get attention. Doesn't matter if what he says has any truth behind it. I think more than anything he calls him Egoli because he doesn't have access to him, and it appears the reason that is, is because Pioli IS NOT an egomaniac. Talk about irony.

Your sarcasm meter is busted.

milkman
09-21-2011, 10:10 AM
Lies!

All lies!

We all know that Todd Haley took play calling away from Chalie Weis after the Tennessee game, cause that's when Matt Cassel regressed.

That regression had nothing to do with the fact that the Raiders, then the Ravens were taems that could actually pressure the QB.

It was all Todd Haley's fault!

Red Beans
09-21-2011, 10:13 AM
Lies!

All lies!

We all know that Todd Haley took play calling away from Chalie Weis after the Tennessee game, cause that's when Matt Cassel regressed.

That regression had nothing to do with the fact that the Raiders, then the Ravens were taems that could actually pressure the QB.

It was all Todd Haley's fault!

See TheGuardian, here is another example of sarcasm. Make a mental note of it. I imagine there may be one or two more examples we could find today...

Rausch
09-21-2011, 10:14 AM
It was all Todd Haley's fault!

Who else would be to blame?...

milkman
09-21-2011, 10:18 AM
Who else would be to blame?...

How about Scott Pioli for trading for that piece of shit?

They polished a turd, and it was nice shiny polished turd when no one came close to it.

But as soon as people got a chance to get a closer look, they exposed the polished turd as just that, a turd.

loochy
09-21-2011, 10:21 AM
Who else would be to blame?...

Maybe the turds that can't play worth a damn?

Deberg_1990
09-21-2011, 10:21 AM
I've never thought of Whitlock as a credible journalist. I've always thought of him as a guy that stirs the pot to get attention. Doesn't matter if what he says has any truth behind it. I think more than anything he calls him Egoli because he doesn't have access to him, and it appears the reason that is, is because Pioli IS NOT an egomaniac. Talk about irony.

Thats what Whitlock is paid to do. Stir the pot. Judging by the number of posts his threads generate around here, he does it well.

Hes a columnist paid to give his opinion, not report hard facts.

dallaschiefsfan
09-21-2011, 10:24 AM
The one thing that Kietzman brought up yesterday, which I thought was a valid point, was that the Chiefs are very secretive about everything with the local media, yet they let this guy write a book about the inner workings of their organization. Why?

I mean, I don't really care that much, other than I'd prefer the Chiefs be a little more transparent with what's going on. Simply because I'm a fan and I want to know. It seems like the local media never gets anything out of the organization other than company speak, which makes for pretty boring stuff.

What everyone else said above. Plus, maybe they consider the KC media a bunch of chicken-little spares....

Chiefs Pantalones
09-21-2011, 10:27 AM
I'm gonna laugh when Haley actually is fired by the end of the season. I don't trust anything I hear. Just by seeing what's going on you know he's toast.

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 10:31 AM
I'm gonna laugh when Haley actually is fired by the end of the season. I don't trust anything I hear. Just by seeing what's going on you know he's toast.

watch the Lions game again. I dare you.

Chiefs were kicking their ass pretty good in the first half.

Stupid Turnovers and Penalties cost this team the game. If this team had a QB, it woulda been a shoot out.

I was down on this team pretty bad on Sunday and Monday. But when you watch it again you can see that they aren't losing because of ability, they're losing because of boneheaded plays.

Also, I think our offense is struggling because they've become so predictable.

jAZ
09-21-2011, 10:31 AM
I'm torn, because this interview shows me how much I hate hearing the absolute garbage that gets spewed in the media and echoed endlessly here. Anyone who's watched pilot in an interview had to initially doubt whit locks claims... Even if you've never heard of whitlock to begin with.

At the same time, I wouldn't have learned about this interview without putting in the effort to wade through all of crap that gets posted here.

Thanks for posting it. I hope this sensible information lingers in the collective wisdom of CP for at least a while.

bobbything
09-21-2011, 10:35 AM
What everyone else said above. Plus, maybe they consider the KC media a bunch of chicken-little spares....
I suppose. However, the way I see it is that the Chiefs are entertainment for the people of Kansas City. Part of that entertainment is endearing themselves to the fans. I don't think this administration does a good job of that. I'm not suggesting that we need to know every little detail about the Chiefs, but the main channel for Chiefs information comes from local media. And the local media rarely gets anything of substance out of the Chiefs.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm gonna laugh when Haley actually is fired by the end of the season. I don't trust anything I hear. Just by seeing what's going on you know he's toast.

Haley might be fired at the end of the season. That doesn't change anything Holley wrote about. I don't know of any other journalist who rode to the playoff game with Pioli, sat with Pioli during the game, was in the locker room at halftime, and spent day 3 of the draft in KC's war room.

Rausch
09-21-2011, 10:43 AM
I suppose. However, the way I see it is that the Chiefs are entertainment for the people of Kansas City. Part of that entertainment is endearing themselves to the fans. I don't think this administration does a good job of that. I'm not suggesting that we need to know every little detail about the Chiefs, but the main channel for Chiefs information comes from local media. And the local media rarely gets anything of substance out of the Chiefs.

The new mindset is that we're about winning.

The end.

We don't care about the local media, national media, we concentrate on the game.

I totally understand that.


















Until you start out scoring around 80 fucking pts less than your opponents in 2 weeks...

Pestilence
09-21-2011, 10:43 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see this fall on Muir and Cassel.

Haley would get a new contract and we take Luck at #1.

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 10:45 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see this fall on Muir and Cassel.

Haley would get a new contract and we take Luck at #1.

And I would have no problem with that. I want Haley to man up though. Take over the play calling.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 10:47 AM
I cant wait to get back later today and see how this is spun by the guys that were taking KK as gospel yesterday when the news fed the front office hate.

Should be fun.

Rausch
09-21-2011, 10:48 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see this fall on Muir and Cassel.

It'd be a good start...

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 10:48 AM
KK was on SD's XX1090 sports radio this morning not only continuing to embarrass the Chiefs, but he basically slammed the entire city of KC.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 10:50 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see this fall on Muir and Cassel.

Haley would get a new contract and we take Luck at #1.

IMO this is best case scenario.

Rausch
09-21-2011, 10:51 AM
KK was on SD's XX1090 sports radio this morning not only continuing to embarrass the Chiefs, but he basically slammed the entire city of KC.

Fuck him.

Same guy that put on a Donx jacket and said he quit after a brutal loss...

bobbything
09-21-2011, 10:51 AM
KK was on SD's XX1090 sports radio this morning not only continuing to embarrass the Chiefs, but he basically slammed the entire city of KC.
What did he say?

Dave Lane
09-21-2011, 10:58 AM
This. I rewatched the 1st quarter and we were driving the ball and shutting down the Lions O.

watch the Lions game again. I dare you.

Chiefs were kicking their ass pretty good in the first half.

Stupid Turnovers and Penalties cost this team the game. If this team had a QB, it woulda been a shoot out.

I was down on this team pretty bad on Sunday and Monday. But when you watch it again you can see that they aren't losing because of ability, they're losing because of boneheaded plays.

Also, I think our offense is struggling because they've become so predictable.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 11:00 AM
This. I rewatched the 1st quarter and we were driving the ball and shutting down the Lions O.

It all fell on Cassels shoulders.

If he played like he did against the 49ers last year, we have a good chance to win the Lions game.

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 11:01 AM
What did he say?

Aside from slamming the team, he also told SD natives that another reason to never move to KC was because SD's sports teams were so much better than KC's.

It doesn't sound like much when I type it, but the way he said it, along with all the shit talking that was occuring before that made it feel like a real low blow.

You would think that the guy would come on the air and defend the Chiefs and the City a little. Instead he just joins the Pile on. The Chargers and their fan's are laughing at us enough as it is, they really didn't need a KC guy coming in and giving them more to laugh at.

Like the SD radio hosts said before KK came on the air, "KK was ripping the team last year when they were winning..."

Fritz88
09-21-2011, 11:01 AM
The facts on the field say otherwise. Okay, Pioli isn't an egomaniac. Wetcunt might have made up some shit. But no way in hell would I believe that he hasn't forced the biggest failure of this team on Haley, and that is shitCastle.
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-21-2011, 11:02 AM
http://www.610sports.com/topic...audioId=5481087

lol i made the pod cast

Fritz88
09-21-2011, 11:03 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see this fall on Muir and Cassel.

Haley would get a new contract and we take Luck at #1.

I can live with this but I doubt it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dave Lane
09-21-2011, 11:04 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see this fall on Muir and Cassel.

Haley would get a new contract and we take Luck at #1.

I would the whole thing.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 11:05 AM
If we fire Haley and start from scratch with a new system, that means new playbook to learn...new system...new coaches to get used to.

It would put us back even further IMO.

Rausch
09-21-2011, 11:06 AM
If we fire Haley and start from scratch with a new system, that means new playbook to learn...new system...new coaches to get used to.

It would put us back even further IMO.

Further than what, exactly?...

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:07 AM
Sports media, led by Whitlock, are sometimes a bunch of sniveling, whiney crybabies. They don't like the "secrecy" and lack of access...so they invent shit out of thin air. Do Pioli and Haley have issues? On occasion, yeah they probably do. It doesn't appear to be anything on the level suggested by so many media clowns. Journalists have too much estrogen flowing through their veins, and will mistake normal macho disagreement and posturing for overblown drama that conceals some underlying non-existent "issue."

Exhibit A: Whitlock.

Great post. And truthy as all get out.

I applaud your common sense, Mr. Mr. Kotter. It is becoming increasingly uncommon on the Planet, it seems. Particularly when people start believing anything the Nicks or Whittles have to say.

There's a big difference between selling papers, ratings, or web eyeballs and truth ... most of the time, anyhow.

FAX THE IMPRESSED

Pestilence
09-21-2011, 11:08 AM
I can live with this but I doubt it.
Posted via Mobile Device

It's possible. Muir and Cassel are the obvious fall guys. Cassel handcuffs the offense and Muir can't call plays for shit.

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 11:08 AM
Ima wait and see how the rest of the season plays out before I go calling for the Coaching staff's heads.

Week 1: Turnovers, Injuries and Poor Defensive gameplan.

Week 2: Turnovers, Injuries and Dumb penalties.

Week 3 ?: We may just get flat out physically beat, but I wanna see how this team responds and what adjustments they make to this offense w/o Charles.

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:09 AM
The one thing that Kietzman brought up yesterday, which I thought was a valid point, was that the Chiefs are very secretive about everything with the local media, yet they let this guy write a book about the inner workings of their organization. Why?

I mean, I don't really care that much, other than I'd prefer the Chiefs be a little more transparent with what's going on. Simply because I'm a fan and I want to know. It seems like the local media never gets anything out of the organization other than company speak, which makes for pretty boring stuff.

Perhaps (and this is just a crazy theory), it's because the KC sports media is populated with egotistical, brainless hacks.

FAX

BossChief
09-21-2011, 11:10 AM
Further than what, exactly?...

Huh?

This team has been in the playbook for three years (at years end)...if you think it wouldn't set us back to start that whole process over...?

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 11:11 AM
It's possible. Muir and Cassel are the obvious fall guys. Cassel handcuffs the offense and Muir can't call plays for shit.

Considering that those are the two worst components of the offense, losing them wouldn't be all that bad.

I wanna see Zorn and Haley try to develop a rookie QB before I write them off. Haley didn't do to bad with Romo....

durtyrute
09-21-2011, 11:13 AM
It's funny, before this interview everyone was saying " Oh whitlock said this and Pioli and Haley don't get along" Now, a day later, it's "See I knew Whitlock was full of shit, Pioli and Haley get along great"
Just blowing with the wind.

Frosty
09-21-2011, 11:13 AM
I know coaches are usually fired after coaching their teams to a top #3 pick, but I think Haley could survive this, especially if Pioli mans up and says something along the lines of "Todd and I thought we were handling the short off-season correctly but we were wrong". The lockout and short season gives them a built in excuse.

I hope Pest is right about Muir and Cassel taking the fall, though.

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:17 AM
I've never thought of Whitlock as a credible journalist. I've always thought of him as a guy that stirs the pot to get attention. Doesn't matter if what he says has any truth behind it. I think more than anything he calls him Egoli because he doesn't have access to him, and it appears the reason that is, is because Pioli IS NOT an egomaniac. Talk about irony.

After that whole "The Reason" or "The Story" or "The Pile Of Crap" or whatever it was that Whittles called his swan song on the radio, I can't believe that anybody would take anything he has to say on any subject as either relevant or truthful. He's like that crazy, whiny, bitch chick who wants you to tell her how beautiful she is when she's buying size 18s.

FAX

seclark
09-21-2011, 11:19 AM
After that whole "The Reason" or "The Story" or "The Pile Of Crap" or whatever it was that Whittles called his swan song on the radio, I can't believe that anybody would take anything he has to say on any subject as either relevant or truthful. He's like that crazy, whiny, bitch chick who wants you to tell her how beautiful she is when she's buying size 18s.

FAX

i hate that bitch
sec

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:20 AM
The facts on the field say otherwise. Okay, Pioli isn't an egomaniac. Wet**** might have made up some shit. But no way in hell would I believe that he hasn't forced the biggest failure of this team on Haley, and that is shitCastle.
Posted via Mobile Device

Can't argue with that.

FAX THE AGREEABLE

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:22 AM
i hate that bitch
sec

Me too.

And I'm generally pretty easy to get along with.

FAX THE GENERALLY PRETTY EASY TO GET ALONG WITH

Rausch
09-21-2011, 11:23 AM
Huh?

This team has been in the playbook for three years (at years end)...if you think it wouldn't set us back to start that whole process over...?

I think Matt Millen and fucking Jerry Glanville could lose by 30+ pts a game.

It's not working.

It doesn't take 3 years to build a playoff-competitive team in today's NFL.

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:26 AM
I think Matt Millen and ****ing Jerry Glanville could lose by 30+ pts a game.

It's not working.

It doesn't take 3 years to build a playoff-competitive team in today's NFL.

You need a quarterback in order to do it, though, Mr. Rausch.

FAX

Red Beans
09-21-2011, 11:27 AM
Whitless = http://i53.tinypic.com/c6io1.jpg

TUB O" GOO

Rausch
09-21-2011, 11:28 AM
You need a quarterback in order to do it, though, Mr. Rausch.

FAX

Reason #1 why this team has been and will continue to fail...

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:33 AM
Reason #1 why this team has been and will continue to fail...

You know ... on that subject ...

It brings to mind the fact that Haley must be living in a sort of hell. I can't believe for one, single, solitary second that he's thrilled with Cassel at the helm - leading the offense into the lethal reefs of certain, mortal disaster and all.

He probably wakes up every morning thinking about how much better this team would be if we had a quarterback who didn't require assistance putting on his socks and shoes.

FAX

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 11:34 AM
Hopefully they will activate Stanzi this weekend.

Rausch
09-21-2011, 11:37 AM
He probably wakes up every morning thinking about how much better this team would be if we had a quarterback who didn't require assistance putting on his socks and shoes.

FAX

I wake up every day wondering how much better this team would be with a real HC instead of some (very average) college golfer living off his dad's name...

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:40 AM
I wake up every day wondering how much better this team would be with a real HC instead of some (very average) college golfer living off his dad's name...

Sadly, that is where our opinions differ.

I'm still pro-Haley. Maybe it's because I was Hermed so badly. But, I really, really liked the way he forced the team back into shape in his first off-season, the way he handled Bowe, the way he handled DJ, etc.

I don't care if he was a dance hall girl in a prior life and his dad was a mass murderer .... well, I might care about that a little ... but you get the point.

Haley, in my view, has the makings of a very find NFL HC. I pray that someday you will agree with me on that point, Mr. Rausch as I value your opinion on matters relating to the great game.

FAX

Dave Lane
09-21-2011, 11:44 AM
Perhaps (and this is just a crazy theory), it's because the KC sports media is populated with egotistical, brainless hacks.

FAX

That.

Sofa King
09-21-2011, 11:48 AM
Sadly, that is where our opinions differ.

I'm still pro-Haley. Maybe it's because I was Hermed so badly. But, I really, really liked the way he forced the team back into shape in his first off-season, the way he handled Bowe, the way he handled DJ, etc.

I don't care if he was a dance hall girl in a prior life and his dad was a mass murderer .... well, I might care about that a little ... but you get the point.

Haley, in my view, has the makings of a very find NFL HC. I pray that someday you will agree with me on that point, Mr. Rausch as I value your opinion on matters relating to the great game.

FAX

I agree. How many people stated over and over that most of our best players were drafted by Herm and Carl, therefor Haley and pioli don't get credit for them as players.

Well **** people, most of them sucked ass when they were with Herm and Carl. Or at bare minimum they weren't NEARLY as effective as they are now. Shouldn't Haley get credit for developing these guys into what they are now?

Or the "haley and pioli don't get credit for picking berry since it was a slam dunk pick". Bullshit. The guy was there and he was smart enough to grab him. Credit to Haley and Pioli for getting him.

the Talking Can
09-21-2011, 11:48 AM
I hope this sensible information lingers in the collective wisdom of CP for at least a while.


do you also hope the return of tea and crumpets, Lord Butter Churner?

Dave Lane
09-21-2011, 11:48 AM
I wake up every day wondering how much better this team would be with a real HC instead of some (very average) college golfer living off his dad's name...

Then get rid of your sig. Pittsburgh's been better without Cowher than with him. If we get a new coach I hope its someone in Haley's mold and not a washed up retread.

Rausch
09-21-2011, 11:49 AM
Sadly, that is where our opinions differ.

I'm still pro-Haley. Maybe it's because I was Hermed so badly.

It's why I won't be Herm-ed again...

Rausch
09-21-2011, 11:50 AM
If we get a new coach I hope its someone in Haley's mold and not a washed up retread.

Someone more like Haley, who hasn't accomplished jack squat, over a SB winning HC?

the Talking Can
09-21-2011, 11:51 AM
You know ... on that subject ...

It brings to mind the fact that Haley must be living in a sort of hell. I can't believe for one, single, solitary second that he's thrilled with Cassel at the helm - leading the offense into the lethal reefs of certain, mortal disaster and all.

He probably wakes up every morning thinking about how much better this team would be if we had a quarterback who didn't require assistance putting on his socks and shoes.

FAX

Haley coached Warner...Warner handled the blitz as well as any QB in the last 20 years.


Haley hates Cassel with every cell in his body. I'd bet pawnsmokers lipstick stained fleshlight on it.

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 11:56 AM
Haley coached Warner...Warner handled the blitz as well as any QB in the last 20 years.


Haley hates Cassel with every cell in his body. I'd bet pawnsmokers lipstick stained fleshlight on it.

I think so too. Haley isn't a coach that has problems making a QB change.

Romo over Bledsoe. Warner over Leinart.

















Stanzi over Cassel.....not that I think Stanzi would do much better, but at least i won't have to read the constant nagging on here anymore.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 11:58 AM
Haley hates Cassel with every cell in his body.

Link??

FAX
09-21-2011, 11:58 AM
I think so too. Haley isn't a coach that has problems making a QB change.

Romo over Bledsoe. Warner over Leinart.

Stanzi over Cassel.....not that I think Stanzi would do much better, but at least i won't have to read the constant nagging on here anymore.

I doubt that Haley had much to do with those decisions, Mr. Detoxing ... maybe he did, but I'm skeptical ... that's more of an HC-type deal right there.

Still, he's seen it. Been there. Done that.

The problem is that we're paying Cassel so much damn money. Pulling him would be a slap in the face to Pioli. Tough situation all the way around ... especially for the fans.

FAX

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 11:59 AM
I doubt that Haley had much to do with those decisions, Mr. Detoxing ... maybe he did, but I'm skeptical ... that's more of an HC-type deal right there.

Still, he's seen it. Been there. Done that.

The problem is that we're paying Cassel so much damn money. Pulling him would be a slap in the face to Pioli. Tough situation all the way around ... especially for the fans.

FAX

As the OC I'm sure he had a say in it. It's been widely reported that Haley pushed for Romo to start over Bledsoe. I doubt the situation was much different in AZ.

Rausch
09-21-2011, 12:03 PM
The problem is that we're paying Cassel so much damn money.

As of today, no, we're not.

We PAID him so damned much money.

That contract was all front-loaded and he's getting paid less than the average starter pay as of right now...

the Talking Can
09-21-2011, 12:04 PM
Link??

straight from the source (http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=7929847#post7929847)

Dayze
09-21-2011, 12:06 PM
not that I hold sport radio guys in a high regard anywy, but if one listens to sports talk in other markets (I try to listen to sports talk in Tuscaloosa when I can), it's abundantly clear how lame 'our' guys are.

Petro is probably the least pathetic of the bunch, but that's not saying a lot.

FAX
09-21-2011, 12:06 PM
As of today, no, we're not.

We PAID him so damned much money.

That contract was all front-loaded and he's getting paid less than the average starter pay as of right now...

You know what I mean.

FAX

Rausch
09-21-2011, 12:09 PM
You know what I mean.

FAX

No, I think Pioli was smart in both the trade and the contract.

I think Ca$$#ole is a bust, and did from minute one, but Pioli protected himself.

He spent that QB money when we had it to spend and in the 2 years after when the cap wasn't an issue.

He took a gamble, lost, and now that gamble won't come back to haunt him with the new cap.

He'll whipe, flush, and be done...

milkman
09-21-2011, 12:15 PM
Someone more like Haley, who hasn't accomplished jack squat, over a SB winning HC?

Quick, name a SB coach who won another SB with a team other than the one he won his first with.

FringeNC
09-21-2011, 12:15 PM
I believe what Holley says regarding last year. I still think there are problems (between Haley and Pioli) this year. Just too much smoke. Haley is pissed off because he can't run his offense due to Cassel's limitations, and Pioli blames Haley for Cassel's performance. My take, at least.

-King-
09-21-2011, 12:16 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see this fall on Muir and Cassel.

Haley would get a new contract and we take Luck at #1.

And you'd be able to see the circle jerk in kansas city from space
Posted via Mobile Device

FAX
09-21-2011, 12:18 PM
No, I think Pioli was smart in both the trade and the contract.

I think Ca$$#ole is a bust, and did from minute one, but Pioli protected himself.

He spent that QB money when we had it to spend and in the 2 years after when the cap wasn't an issue.

He took a gamble, lost, and now that gamble won't come back to haunt him with the new cap.

He'll whipe, flush, and be done...

My point is that Cassel represents a crap load of cash and he is stamped with Pioli's imprimatur.

Sure, Cassel will be deemed a failure eventually and we'll move on. In the meantime, though, pulling Cassel (by Haley) would be an insult to Pioli ... that's how I see it, anyhow. A clear demonstration that he is a tool and a moron of extraordinary rank and a final, clear, public admission that Cassel was a bad decision on Pioli's part.

Not good anyway you look at it.

FAX

FAX
09-21-2011, 12:21 PM
I believe what Holley says regarding last year. I still think there are problems (between Haley and Pioli) this year. Just too much smoke. Haley is pissed off because he can't run his offense due to Cassel's limitations, and Pioli blames Haley for Cassel's performance. My take, at least.

I hate to disagree with you, Mr. FringeNC, as you are a poster of great wisdom and skill. However, there's no reason to believe all this "smoke" unless, of course, you choose to believe the Nicks and Whittles. And, frankly, there is absolutely no justification I can think of for trusting those guys to know the facts of the situation.

FAX THE TRYING TO GET ALONG WITH EVERYBODY HERE AND FAILING

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 12:26 PM
In the meantime, though, pulling Cassel (by Haley) would be an insult to Pioli ... that's how I see it, anyhow. A clear demonstration that he is a tool and a moron of extraordinary rank and a final, clear, public admission that Cassel was a bad decision on Pioli's part.

Not good anyway you look at it.

FAX

I disagree. For some reason, and according to Holley it would be by agreement between Pioli and Haley, the team went with Cassel, a horrible backup and a 5th round draft choice.

It's too soon to pull the guy who helped get you to the playoffs last year, especially when you have Indy and Minn coming up on the schedule and take some heat off of everyone (players, coaches and management).

But, if KC loses those games, they'd have to play Stanzi and/or Palko in order to determine how they should move forward. If Stanzi plays well and could win 3 out of 5 games at the end of the year, then Haley and Pioli look good for finding a diamond in the rough and coaching him up. If Stanzi fails, "well he's just a 5th rounder, what do you expect, now we know we've got to use that early 1st draft pick on a QB."

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 12:32 PM
Are you guys really this gullible?

This guy is with Pioli and Haley for a few days and we're supposed to believe what he saw is indicative of what goes on ALL THE TIME?

You're going to 100 percent believe everything from a guy who was spoon fed information by Pioli?

And the timing of this EVERYTHING'S A-OK IN KC book's announcement could not be more perfect......

Please.

And FYI, who cares what goes on during the draft, they're professionals, not idiot message board posters....

FAX
09-21-2011, 12:33 PM
I disagree. For some reason, and according to Holley it would be by agreement between Pioli and Haley, the team went with Cassel, a horrible backup and a 5th round draft choice.

It's too soon to pull the guy who helped get you to the playoffs last year, especially when you have Indy and Minn coming up on the schedule and take some heat off of everyone (players, coaches and management).

But, if KC loses those games, they'd have to play Stanzi and/or Palko in order to determine how they should move forward. If Stanzi plays well and could win 3 out of 5 games at the end of the year, then Haley and Pioli look good for finding a diamond in the rough and coaching him up. If Stanzi fails, "well he's just a 5th rounder, what do you expect, now we know we've got to use that early 1st draft pick on a QB."

Hmmm.

I'm having trouble figuring out where we disagree.

Maybe it's this; you're saying that the decision to pull Cassel would be mutual (between Haley and The Don). Perhaps so. However, I'm saying that, were Haley to make the decision unilaterally, that would be a statement which would indicate just how pointless the entire Cassel experiment and the attendant, prior decisions have been. Ergo, Pioli is a dumbass.

FAX

FAX
09-21-2011, 12:34 PM
Are you guys really this gullible?

This guy is with Pioli and Haley for a few days and we're supposed to believe what he saw is indicative of what goes on ALL THE TIME?

You're going to 100 percent believe everything from a guy who was spoon fed information by Pioli?

And the timing of this EVERYTHING'S A-OK IN KC book's announcement could not be more perfect......

Please.

Or ... I guess we can put our faith and trust in Whittles and Nick squared.

FAX

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 12:35 PM
Or ... I guess we can put our faith and trust in Whittles and Nick squared.

FAX

Hey, I don't know who is right....I'm just saying I wouldn't put 100 percent stock in this Pioli-fueled propaganda.

This is no different than Gretz writing something positive about Carl.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 12:37 PM
Hey, I don't know who is right....I'm just saying I wouldn't put 100 percent stock in this Pioli-fueled propaganda.

This is no different than Gretz writing something positive about Carl.

Gochiefs questioning the integrity of a real journalist.

Deberg_1990
09-21-2011, 12:38 PM
I disagree. For some reason, and according to Holley it would be by agreement between Pioli and Haley, the team went with Cassel, a horrible backup and a 5th round draft choice.

It's too soon to pull the guy who helped get you to the playoffs last year, especially when you have Indy and Minn coming up on the schedule and take some heat off of everyone (players, coaches and management).

But, if KC loses those games, they'd have to play Stanzi and/or Palko in order to determine how they should move forward. If Stanzi plays well and could win 3 out of 5 games at the end of the year, then Haley and Pioli look good for finding a diamond in the rough and coaching him up. If Stanzi fails, "well he's just a 5th rounder, what do you expect, now we know we've got to use that early 1st draft pick on a QB."

There is no way id pass on Luck just because we have Stanzi, no matter how good he does...Barring a Kurt Warner 1999 type story, no way, no how.

FAX
09-21-2011, 12:39 PM
Hey, I don't know who is right....I'm just saying I wouldn't put 100 percent stock in this Pioli-fueled propaganda.

This is no different than Gretz writing something positive about Carl.

Ummm.

With all respect, I think it's a lot different. Gretz blew the King because his livelihood depended upon good suckage and he delivered.

Holley is a far more independent voice.

FAX

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 12:40 PM
Gochiefs questioning the integrity of a real journalist.

I'm not questioning his integrity at all.

But if you think Haley and Pioli are gonna give a journalist any ammo during the three days he's around you're ignorant.

Of course everything looked like it was hunky dory. Of course they gave him positive information to put into the book.

All I'm saying don't take Holley as 100 percent proof that everything's fine. These NFL guys are masters at spin and controlling the media.

FAX
09-21-2011, 12:40 PM
There is no way id pass on Luck just because we have Stanzi, no matter how good he does...Barring a Kurt Warner 1999 type story, no way, no how.

If, for some crazy reason, we passed on Luck with the idea of developing Stanzi, I will kill every kitten I see.

FAX

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 12:43 PM
I'm not questioning his integrity at all.

But if you think Haley and Pioli are gonna give a journalist any ammo during the three days he's around you're ignorant.

Of course everything looked like it was hunky dory. Of course they gave him positive information to put into the book.

All I'm saying don't take Holley as 100 percent proof that everything's fine. These NFL guys are masters at spin and controlling the media.

How do you know he was around just three days?

Holley didn't say everything was just fine. He gave his opinion of what he saw at the time. He completely refuted all the rumors you have been perpetuating regarding the playcalling at the end of last year.

BigMeatballDave
09-21-2011, 12:43 PM
Further than what, exactly?...Why do you have Cowher in your sig?

BigMeatballDave
09-21-2011, 12:49 PM
Someone more like Haley, who hasn't accomplished jack squat, over a SB winning HC?
Dude! Cowher is SOOO fucking overrated.

-King-
09-21-2011, 12:53 PM
Are you guys really this gullible?

This guy is with Pioli and Haley for a few days and we're supposed to believe what he saw is indicative of what goes on ALL THE TIME?

You're going to 100 percent believe everything from a guy who was spoon fed information by Pioli?

And the timing of this EVERYTHING'S A-OK IN KC book's announcement could not be more perfect......

Please.

And FYI, who cares what goes on during the draft, they're professionals, not idiot message board posters....

How many days had Whitlock been with Pioli
Posted via Mobile Device

dallaschiefsfan
09-21-2011, 12:56 PM
I suppose. However, the way I see it is that the Chiefs are entertainment for the people of Kansas City. Part of that entertainment is endearing themselves to the fans. I don't think this administration does a good job of that. I'm not suggesting that we need to know every little detail about the Chiefs, but the main channel for Chiefs information comes from local media. And the local media rarely gets anything of substance out of the Chiefs.

Time out. That's an entirely DIFFERENT issue. I am a fan. The media is something else. I could care less how they treat the media.

You are right that they have totally bungled the way to treat a fan-base...but don't confuse that with my point above...

</post>
09-21-2011, 12:57 PM
Looks like AP put up most of the interview.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/9/21/2440303/michael-holley-book-war-room

Also looks like CP made the radio

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-21-2011, 12:59 PM
Are you guys really this gullible?

This guy is with Pioli and Haley for a few days and we're supposed to believe what he saw is indicative of what goes on ALL THE TIME?

You're going to 100 percent believe everything from a guy who was spoon fed information by Pioli?

And the timing of this EVERYTHING'S A-OK IN KC book's announcement could not be more perfect......

Please.

And FYI, who cares what goes on during the draft, they're professionals, not idiot message board posters....

He followed the chiefs all of 2010 not a couple of days

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2011, 01:00 PM
He followed the chiefs all of 2010 not a couple of days

come one man, he's gets confused when facts are involved

Frosty
09-21-2011, 01:05 PM
He followed the chiefs all of 2010 not a couple of days

Call me crazy but I kind of believe the guy who had actual, real contact with the team over butthurt "journalists" who have zero contact with the team and pull stuff out of their ass.

durtyrute
09-21-2011, 01:09 PM
How is it possible that just days after this whole "rift" became news all of a sudden there is a guy that just happens to pop up right at this exact time and say "Everything is fine.....see I'm writing a book"

Marcellus
09-21-2011, 01:13 PM
Inner workings of the organization does not give away any tactical personnel advantages.

You are pretty slow to catch on here. They don't care about that, they just want to be left alone and work in private.

I am always amazed how people feel they have a "right to know". In the public sector that right does not exist.

Frankie
09-21-2011, 01:13 PM
So many conspiracy theories go boom.Except the one that says that this whole season is a pre-planned suck-for-Luck.

watch the Lions game again. I dare you.

Chiefs were kicking their ass pretty good in the first half.
This. I rewatched the 1st quarter and we were driving the ball and shutting down the Lions O.

This is totally true. In fact by late 3rd or early 4th quarter while we were losing by a couple of TDs the Lions and their #1 draft choice elite QB had exactly the same yardage as we did.

Haley might be fired at the end of the season. Again, unless there's some leg to the suck4luck rumor. :hmmm:

I wouldn't be surprised to see this fall on Muir and Cassel.

Haley would get a new contract and we take Luck at #1.I would love to see that. I think Haley and Luck would make for a lethal O.

Add to it Zorn promoted to OC and the young "phenom" coach whose name escapes me at the moment promoted to QB coach. Pretty sexy outlook, no?

Aside from slamming the team, he also told SD natives that another reason to never move to KC was because SD's sports teams were so much better than KC's. That is total dumbassery! When people move they don't suddenly become fans of the team in their new locality. Someone can move from SD to KC, and still catch the Bolts on TV these days.

If we fire Haley and start from scratch with a new system, that means new playbook to learn...new system...new coaches to get used to.

It would put us back even further IMO.I totally agree with this.

Sports media, led by Whitlock, are sometimes a bunch of sniveling, whiney crybabies. They don't like the "secrecy" and lack of access...so they invent shit out of thin air.
This is their way to force the FO to come out and deny their rumor-mongering and thus give up on their secrecy. It's dirty tactics, but they have to sell commercials.
It brings to mind the fact that Haley must be living in a sort of hell. I can't believe for one, single, solitary second that he's thrilled with Cassel at the helm - leading the offense into the lethal reefs of certain, mortal disaster and all.

He probably wakes up every morning thinking about how much better this team would be if we had a quarterback who didn't require assistance putting on his socks and shoes.

FAX
I'm still pro-Haley. Maybe it's because I was Hermed so badly. But, I really, really liked the way he forced the team back into shape in his first off-season, the way he handled Bowe, the way he handled DJ, etc.

I don't care if he was a dance hall girl in a prior life and his dad was a mass murderer .... well, I might care about that a little ... but you get the point.

Haley, in my view, has the makings of a very find NFL HC. I pray that someday you will agree with me on that point, Mr. Rausch as I value your opinion on matters relating to the great game.

FAX :D
I totally agree.

Frankie THE AGREEABLE II

Then get rid of your sig. Pittsburgh's been better without Cowher than with him. If we get a new coach I hope its someone in Haley's mold and not a washed up retread.Exactly. Mr. Rausch is a friend, but I have to take your side with the Cowher issue.

Plus I really think Cowher is destined for Miami.

But, if KC loses those games, they'd have to play Stanzi and/or Palko in order to determine how they should move forward. If Stanzi plays well and could win 3 out of 5 games at the end of the year, then Haley and Pioli look good for finding a diamond in the rough and coaching him up. If Stanzi fails, "well he's just a 5th rounder, what do you expect, now we know we've got to use that early 1st draft pick on a QB."The very point I've been 'jihading' for all over this BB. But Stanzi has been inactive whereas he could have been put in in the 4th quarter of both games for experience and evaluation. That decision has been gnawing at me painfully.

If, for some crazy reason, we passed on Luck with the idea of developing Stanzi, I will kill every kitten I see.

FAX Mr. FAX THE FUTURE SERIAL KILLER.

Marcellus
09-21-2011, 01:16 PM
How is it possible that just days after this whole "rift" became news all of a sudden there is a guy that just happens to pop up right at this exact time and say "Everything is fine.....see I'm writing a book"

It wasn't news anywhere but here. I watched the entire Monday Night Countdown on ESPN and not one word was mentioned.

I listen to ESPN Radio practically all day every day, nothing has been mentioned.

Maybe Polio has ESPN in his pocket too.

KCUnited
09-21-2011, 01:17 PM
How is it possible that just days after this whole "rift" became news all of a sudden there is a guy that just happens to pop up right at this exact time and say "Everything is fine.....see I'm writing a book"

I was down at HAARPO's for the MU game and heard there was rift between Muir and consciousness.

FAX
09-21-2011, 01:17 PM
I was down at HAARPO's for the MU game and heard there was rift between Muir and consciousness.

ROFL

FAX

Frankie
09-21-2011, 01:19 PM
I was down at HAARPO's for the MU game and heard there was rift between Muir and consciousness.

:clap: rep.

durtyrute
09-21-2011, 01:20 PM
I was down at HAARPO's for the MU game and heard there was rift between Muir and consciousness.

LMAO

The Bad Guy
09-21-2011, 01:24 PM
How do you know he was around just three days?

Holley didn't say everything was just fine. He gave his opinion of what he saw at the time. He completely refuted all the rumors you have been perpetuating regarding the playcalling at the end of last year.

It's hilarious GoChiefs questioning someone that spent time with both guys and then he'll post made up stuff from Nick Athan.

Chocolate Hog
09-21-2011, 01:25 PM
Haley still should be fired so should Pioli.

The Bad Guy
09-21-2011, 01:42 PM
Haley still should be fired so should Pioli.

Haley is going to fall on the sword, but Pioli is here for a long, long time.

Chocolate Hog
09-21-2011, 02:06 PM
Haley is going to fall on the sword, but Pioli is here for a long, long time.

Because of how much he's getting paid right?

NJChiefsFan
09-21-2011, 02:10 PM
I hate to disagree with you, Mr. FringeNC, as you are a poster of great wisdom and skill. However, there's no reason to believe all this "smoke" unless, of course, you choose to believe the Nicks and Whittles. And, frankly, there is absolutely no justification I can think of for trusting those guys to know the facts of the situation.

FAX THE TRYING TO GET ALONG WITH EVERYBODY HERE AND FAILING

I agree with you. I can not stand the "where there is smoke there is fire" crap. If you started making up lies about your boss and got a close friend in the office to do the same then that is "smoke". Yet its a complete lie.

Hey, I don't know who is right....I'm just saying I wouldn't put 100 percent stock in this Pioli-fueled propaganda.



See I would have zero issue with this statement if this was the objective stance you had with Whitlock and Wrights opinions. You JUMPED on that like you saw it behind the scenes with your own two eyes.

You can't justly say, "Oh this rumor is true this organization sucks" and then when an opposing view comes out say, "hey guys lets use our heads here and be objective." That in itself makes it look like you aren't being fair.

My personal opinion is to lean towards this side of the story. I don't believe based off what I watch and hear from these guys the past few years that Haley took the play calling from Weis. I also don't believe Twitlock and Wrong over Holley. Maybe I am wrong, but from what I have seen and heard, my guess is on this side. I certainly recognize that nothing but opinions have been given by people who are NOT the ones in question.

FringeNC
09-21-2011, 02:17 PM
I agree with you. I can not stand the "where there is smoke there is fire" crap. If you started making up lies about your boss and got a close friend in the office to do the same then that is "smoke". Yet its a complete lie.



See I would have zero issue with this statement if this was the objective stance you had with Whitlock and Wrights opinions. You JUMPED on that like you saw it behind the scenes with your own two eyes.

You can't justly say, "Oh this rumor is true this organization sucks" and then when an opposing view comes out say, "hey guys lets use our heads here and be objective." That in itself makes it look like you aren't being fair.

My personal opinion is to lean towards this side of the story. I don't believe based off what I watch and hear from these guys the past few years that Haley took the play calling from Weis. I also don't believe Twitlock and Wrong over Holley. Maybe I am wrong, but from what I have seen and heard, my guess is on this side. I certainly recognize that nothing but opinions have been given by people who are NOT the ones in question.

Wait a minute. We are talking about more than Whitlock and Assclown here. Michael Silver, a national guy, had a story, too.

NJChiefsFan
09-21-2011, 02:20 PM
Wait a minute. We are talking about more than Whitlock and Assclown here. Michael Silver, a national guy, had a story, too.

Michael Silver isn't much better. I am not sure I ever agreed with anything he wrote.

FringeNC
09-21-2011, 02:21 PM
Michael Silver isn't much better. I am not sure I ever agreed with anything he wrote.

Fair enough, but he can't be dismissed as easily as Assclown.

Amnorix
09-21-2011, 02:21 PM
FTR, not that you guys really care, but Holley is very highly regarded by Boston media/fans.

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 02:23 PM
FTR, not that you guys really care, but Holley is very highly regarded by Boston media/fans.

So was Matt Cassel.

NJChiefsFan
09-21-2011, 02:24 PM
Fair enough, but he can't be dismissed as easily as Assclown.

That is also true. I am not saying that side of the story is untrue only because of Twitlock. It certainly puts it in a hole, but even idiots can be right even if for the wrong reason. I just think everything together I would lean towards Holley.

I don't know enough about him personally to know what his agenda/friendship is towards these guys, but everything I have read from him or heard him say on ESPN has always made me think he was level-headed.

seaofred
09-21-2011, 02:43 PM
How is it possible that just days after this whole "rift" became news all of a sudden there is a guy that just happens to pop up right at this exact time and say "Everything is fine.....see I'm writing a book"

Because, he is doing a book tour (Coming out Nov. 8th) and he was just asked the question today by Bob Fesco.

seaofred
09-21-2011, 02:46 PM
Fair enough, but he can't be dismissed as easily as Assclown.

Actually he can be. If you follow him and Wright on Twitter. They seem to be friends... So Wright says something to Silver about them not getting a long and it's "Well know" in KC and Silver runs with it.

BigMeatballDave
09-21-2011, 02:51 PM
So was Matt Cassel.

Zing!

LMAO

Amnorix
09-21-2011, 02:56 PM
So was Matt Cassel.


Schwing and a miss. I wouldn't call Cassel "very highly regarded" as a QB. What we saw was a lot of promise for him to get better, but he clearly had huge issues with his game, including holding the ball for far too long and having a horrible problem with deep passes despite having the best home run hitting WR in NFL history as part of his arsenal.

Frankie
09-21-2011, 03:12 PM
Schwing and a miss. I wouldn't call Cassel "very highly regarded" as a QB. What we saw was a lot of promise for him to get better, but he clearly had huge issues with his game, including holding the ball for far too long and having a horrible problem with deep passes despite having the best home run hitting WR in NFL history as part of his arsenal.

In other words, Belichick played Pioli like a drum.

Rooster
09-21-2011, 03:25 PM
You are pretty slow to catch on here. They don't care about that, they just want to be left alone and work in private.

I am always amazed how people feel they have a "right to know". In the public sector that right does not exist.

I am always confused as to what people think they are missing out on that wouldn't be harmful to the club. What exactly do they think they are missing?

Does Pioli eat the dill pickle with his deli sandwich during meetings? He's does!!! OMG OMG That is awesome. I didn't know that. Oh what's that? He drinks his coke with no ice. That is freaky man...

The whole thing is stupid.

jAZ
09-21-2011, 04:33 PM
My point is that Cassel represents a crap load of cash and he is stamped with Pioli's imprimatur.

Sure, Cassel will be deemed a failure eventually and we'll move on. In the meantime, though, pulling Cassel (by Haley) would be an insult to Pioli ... that's how I see it, anyhow. A clear demonstration that he is a tool and a moron of extraordinary rank and a final, clear, public admission that Cassel was a bad decision on Pioli's part.

Not good anyway you look at it.

FAX

No it would be throwing in the towel by the head coach of a team that while doing horribly is only doing horribly in game 1 and game 2. There are 16 games.

Is Cassell the right guy for next season and beyond? I don't know, but you don't pull the QB that got you to the playoffs and (backed into) a pro-bowl based on 2 bad games in week 2 of the very next season.

I don't see Cassel getting pulled this early even playing terribly. Check back in week 5.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 04:47 PM
Are you guys really this gullible?

This guy is with Pioli and Haley for a few days and we're supposed to believe what he saw is indicative of what goes on ALL THE TIME?

You're going to 100 percent believe everything from a guy who was spoon fed information by Pioli?

And the timing of this EVERYTHING'S A-OK IN KC book's announcement could not be more perfect......

Please.

And FYI, who cares what goes on during the draft, they're professionals, not idiot message board posters....

Dude, seriously...a few WEEKS ago you were calling Pioli a "Balla ass GM" over and over.

People would respect your takes more if you would stick to your guns on certain topics instead of just saying whatever is controversial.

Except for your takes on Dexter McCluster, the kid is gonna have a lot of yards by years end.
There is no way id pass on Luck just because we have Stanzi, no matter how good he does...Barring a Kurt Warner 1999 type story, no way, no how.

If I was the guy in charge, I would ultimately take Luck no matter what was on the table as an offer....but Stanzis play at this level against some pretty damn tough defense down that stretch could surely make a difference in that opinion as well if he is playing during that time.

What if Stanzi looks like the absolute real deal against the best defenses in football as a damn n00b? (I dont think this is likely, but it is possible. Stanzi played very well in the bigger games in college and that is usually a good indicator of how he will play in the bigger games at the next level, too. Not always, but a lot of the time) If that happens and we still get the top pick and someone offers us 3 1s 2 2s 3 3s and a player or two for the pick and one of the picks they are offering is a top 10 pick THIS YEAR?

That would have to make you seriously consider it.

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 05:06 PM
Except for your takes on Dexter McCluster, the kid is gonna have a lot of yards by years end.


And a lot of fumbles. He's a piece of crap. Four catches for -2 yards?

BossChief
09-21-2011, 05:10 PM
And a lot of fumbles. He's a piece of crap. Four catches for -2 yards?

Averaging 7.8 yards per rush after two games.

Charles on IR.

Watch him either be one of the next guys on IR or go on to rush for 1000 yards on like 175 carries.

TheGuardian
09-21-2011, 05:13 PM
And a lot of fumbles. He's a piece of crap. Four catches for -2 yards?


You're right man, a bunch of blowhards on a message board and an obese writer who missed his calling with the National Enquirer should be considered more trusted sources.

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 05:14 PM
Averaging 7.8 yards per rush after two games.

Charles on IR.

Watch him either be one of the next guys on IR or go on to rush for 1000 yards on like 175 carries.

LMAO

1,000 yards, that's funny!

keg in kc
09-21-2011, 05:15 PM
People would respect your takes more if you would stick to your guns on certain topics instead of just saying whatever is controversial.Yeah. I don't think people would "respect his takes" if he offered free pizza and beer by the case.

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 05:18 PM
And to be fair, BossChief, I was only praising Pioli for some solid free agency moves. Those posts were not indicative of my overall feeling towards the guy, which hasn't changed since the 2nd round of the 2010 draft.

xztop12
09-21-2011, 05:22 PM
havent followed the thread. does this re-air tonight

Mr. Laz
09-21-2011, 05:24 PM
Fescoe asks for a clarification: "So Scott Pioli never told Todd Haley that Charlie Weis had to call the plays and there's nothing he could do about it?"

Holley's response: "Absolutely not."

jAZ
09-21-2011, 05:42 PM
havent followed the thread. does this re-air tonight

http://www.610sports.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=5481087

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 05:49 PM
http://www.610sports.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=5481087

Uh oh....looks like we got a CP member get some honorable mention on the podcast....

milkman
09-21-2011, 05:50 PM
Uh oh....looks like we got a CP member get some honorable mention on the podcast....

Who would that be?

Trevo_410
09-21-2011, 05:55 PM
"Oh that guy...."

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 05:56 PM
This whole book is basically a puff piece for the Patriot Way...so pardon me if I give it the finger.

Detoxing
09-21-2011, 05:59 PM
Who would that be?

A certain Chiefs fan who also follows the Orioles.

ChiefsandO'sfan
09-21-2011, 06:02 PM
A certain Chiefs fan who also follows the Orioles.

LoL bob hates me

BossChief
09-21-2011, 06:07 PM
LMAO

1,000 yards, that's funny!
We are gonna be a rushing team and he will get a lot of the carries Charles would have gotten.

Just watch how it plays out...1000 yards or IR.
And to be fair, BossChief, I was only praising Pioli for some solid free agency moves. Those posts were not indicative of my overall feeling towards the guy, which hasn't changed since the 2nd round of the 2010 draft.

Bullshit.

You called him a balla ass gm when it came to the last draft, free agency the fact that we had a playoff year that very few thought was possible (and then flip flopped right before the playoffs with the frauds stuff). Basically leading into this year. For me and many others, that hasnt changed and time will show that the guy has made a lot more solid moves than bad ones.

He busted out with Tyson Jackson, but also just had a draft where he got tremendous value for each and every fucking pick...many of them were thought of as first round talents.

He busted on the trade fro Cassel, but if history shows us anything it shows us that picking QBs isn't an exact science.

Ya just cant tell just how someone is gonna respond to getting a check that means he and his family for generations are set for money until he gets that check. Some feel they have arrived...others drive to be great...Cassel is the former.

Has SP made mistakes? Of course, what GM hasn't?

Its better to stick by your guns and be wrong than it is to keep changing your opinion due to perception and be "right".

For me, I think that this team starts to look drastically different once Stanzi starts his first game and that Pioli gets the credit for rectifying the quarterback situation with Stanzi/Luck.

Of course, people will probably say that he fell into those picks once they turn this franchise around...just the way it is, I guess.

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 06:21 PM
That is wrong, wrong wrong.

I called them frauds pretty much the whole year after the Denver debacle. I NEVER backed off from that.

Then I gave Pioli credit for a good draft and FA.

And then they proved they were definitely frauds at the beginning of this year.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 06:25 PM
That is wrong, wrong wrong.

I called them frauds pretty much the whole year after the Denver debacle. I NEVER backed off from that.

Then I gave Pioli credit for a good draft and FA.

And then they proved they were definitely frauds at the beginning of this year.

Read your sig FFS.

If this team is a superbowl contender with Luck, that says the roster has been significantly upgraded since Herm/CP and 2-14

Do you think things like that would be said about teams like the one Pioli took over?

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 06:28 PM
No, it says that Luck is a BAMF.

Who won't throw the ball to McBuster.

milkman
09-21-2011, 06:29 PM
Read your sig FFS.

If this team is a superbowl contender with Luck, that says the roster has been significantly upgraded since Herm/CP and 2-14

Do you think things like that would be said about teams like the one Pioli took over?

The core of this team is pretty much the same players that were on the roster when Pioli took the reins.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 06:30 PM
cmon man...

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I FUCKING LOVE YOU SCOTT PIOLI!!!!!!!!1

http://i54.tinypic.com/14wpqvr.jpg

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 06:35 PM
Yes, I was very excited with the draft.

That doesn't change shit. It's like being excited that Cassel threw a 75-yard TD last year. He still sucks shit.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 06:41 PM
The core of this team is pretty much the same players that were on the roster when Pioli took the reins.
Yeah, except the coaches Pioli brought in got all of them to play well above the level they were playing at prior to Piolis arrival. If he deserves the credit for the mad moves, then he should also receive the credit for the positive moves he has made with this organization as well.

Its too bad this is the year of the blown ACL/Achilles or Moeaki and Berry would absolutely be entering that group going into their second year...along with Asamoah (who just handled the best DL in football)...while Arenas may not be playing the biggest impact position, he has been solid and is surely part of this defense long term. Dexter McCluster might step into that this year as well, in Charles absence.

Time will tell.

Its still in its infancy, but the 2011 draft looks to have potential to be every bit as good as the 2008 draft, maybe even better.

I think the Pioli hate on this board is reaching silly levels.

Okie_Apparition
09-21-2011, 06:47 PM
It would be so sweet. if the Pioli/Haley rumors were floated to help promote the book and put Whitlock in his place. HA! Fuck You Fatlock

milkman
09-21-2011, 06:50 PM
Yeah, except the coaches Pioli brought in got all of them to play well above the level they were playing at prior to Piolis arrival. If he deserves the credit for the mad moves, then he should also receive the credit for the positive moves he has made with this organization as well.

Its too bad this is the year of the blown ACL/Achilles or Moeaki and Berry would absolutely be entering that group going into their second year...along with Asamoah (who just handled the best DL in football)...while Arenas may not be playing the biggest impact position, he has been solid and is surely part of this defense long term. Dexter McCluster might step into that this year as well, in Charles absence.

Time will tell.

Its still in its infancy, but the 2011 draft looks to have potential to be every bit as good as the 2008 draft, maybe even better.

I think the Pioli hate on this board is reaching silly levels.

Just pointing out that the roster was not devoid of talent when Pioli took over.

Still hate the 2010 2nd round, but agree about the potential of this draft.

I stiil believe Haley is going to be a good coach when he figures some things out, and fully believe he deserves credit for raising the level of play from the guys that were here.

NJChiefsFan
09-21-2011, 07:24 PM
Just pointing out that the roster was not devoid of talent when Pioli took over.

Still hate the 2010 2nd round, but agree about the potential of this draft.

I stiil believe Haley is going to be a good coach when he figures some things out, and fully believe he deserves credit for raising the level of play from the guys that were here.

I agree with you on all points. If it was in your hands, would you leave Pioli in charge? I personally am still willing to trust him as long as he does the right thing with the QB situation.

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 07:26 PM
I agree with you on all points. If it was in your hands, would you leave Pioli in charge. I personally am still willing to trust him as long as he does the right thing with the QB situation.

This.

I'm not happy with a lot of the things he's done but if he replaces Cassel I'm willing to give him a little more time. If he replaces him with Luck, even more time.

NJChiefsFan
09-21-2011, 07:36 PM
This.

I'm not happy with a lot of the things he's done but if he replaces Cassel I'm willing to give him a little more time. If he replaces him with Luck, even more time.

Exactly. I can over look Cassel, Jackson, ect. as long as he hits on the next QB. It has to be a clear cut hit though.

I like Haley overall too. I think if you give him a QB to stretch the field we have something. He just needs to figure out what the hell is going on with the OC situation. That offseason situation won't happen again so we don't really have to worry about that.

This roster, as bad as it is in some spots, still has a TON of talent. You add a guy like Luck and all of a sudden our Oline, Breaston, Bowe, Moeaki, and Baldwin all get that much better(assuming Luck is who he is supposed to be). A franchise QB makes the GM's job so much easier.

milkman
09-21-2011, 08:01 PM
I agree with you on all points. If it was in your hands, would you leave Pioli in charge? I personally am still willing to trust him as long as he does the right thing with the QB situation.

I don't know.

As I've said before, I like the way that Pioli has gone about constructing this roster, although I haven't agreed with about half of his decisions.

I think Bill Polian should have been fired in Indy years ago, but because of Manning, the perception is that he's done a good job, when in reality he has not.

I'm not sure I'm ready to call for Pioli's head yet, but I d believe he still has to make better decisions and still has a lot to prove.

I don't want a situation like Indy's, where the QB hides the GM's other failings.

HemiEd
09-21-2011, 09:58 PM
here

Dave Lane
09-21-2011, 11:38 PM
Just pointing out that the roster was not devoid of talent when Pioli took over.

Still hate the 2010 2nd round, but agree about the potential of this draft.

I stiil believe Haley is going to be a good coach when he figures some things out, and fully believe he deserves credit for raising the level of play from the guys that were here.

The voice of reason and moderation once again. Perhaps there is some sanity here on the planet.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2011, 11:49 PM
Umm...Holley is a shill for the Pats.

The guy was the ghostwriter for Tedy Bruschi's biography, he wrote Patriot Reign, and this book follows what? Three teams from the Pats tree.

I can understand why people don't want to take Whitlock's words at face value, but Holley has never been anything other than a blind, New England homer. He was a much worse version of Michael Smith when he was on ATH. He's also currently hosting a show on WEEI.

You're not going to get a legitimate critique of the regime from him.

Count Alex's Wins
09-21-2011, 11:51 PM
Umm...Holley is a shill for the Pats.

The guy was the ghostwriter for Tedy Bruschi's biography, he wrote Patriot Reign, and this book follows what? Three teams from the Pats tree.

I can understand why people don't want to take Whitlock's words at face value, but Holley has never been anything other than a blind, New England homer. He was a much worse version of Michael Smith when he was on ATH. He's also currently hosting a show on WEEI.

You're not going to get a legitimate critique of the regime from him.

TRUTH BOMB

This whole book is basically a puff piece for the Patriot Way...so pardon me if I give it the finger.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2011, 12:00 AM
There are a lot of journalists who are "respected" in certain areas because the teams win and the journalist kisses the ass of the winning team.

Joe Strauss of the Post Dispatch is a great example.

Frankie
09-22-2011, 12:46 AM
I stiil believe Haley is going to be a good coach when he figures some things out, and fully believe he deserves credit for raising the level of play from the guys that were here.

Totally this.

Tuckdaddy
09-22-2011, 12:52 AM
Like I said FATASS is a turd and writes bullshit. He just made all that shit up.

No proof of anything.

BigRock
09-22-2011, 01:00 AM
I stiil believe Haley is going to be a good coach when he figures some things out, and fully believe he deserves credit for raising the level of play from the guys that were here.

Totally negated by that time he called a halfback pass.

BigRock
09-22-2011, 01:06 AM
If we're going to dismiss Holley as a Pats ass-kisser who's just regurgitating whatever sunshine Pioli wants him to shine up peoples' butts, we also have to dismiss the stories about tension between Pioli and Haley being such that Pioli is giving these off-the-record Haley bashfests to his media cronies. Which at least one story claims dates back to last season.

Because if that was true, obviously a kool-aid drinking Pats worshipper like Holley, who has been tight with Pioli for the last decade, would have gotten the memo. Pioli and Weis (and Romeo) would be the brains behind the outfit, and that no-connection-to-the-Pats douchebag golf pro would be the turd in the punch bowl.

But it's clear from this interview that Holley is a fan of Haley, even questioning Fescoe's comment that he'd have preferred keeping Weis. That certainly doesn't jive with the idea of Pioli working the media against him.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2011, 01:19 AM
If we're going to dismiss Holley as a Pats ass-kisser who's just regurgitating whatever sunshine Pioli wants him to shine up peoples' butts, we also have to dismiss the stories about tension between Pioli and Haley being such that Pioli is giving these off-the-record Haley bashfests to his media cronies. Which at least one story claims dates back to last season.

Because if that was true, obviously a kool-aid drinking Pats worshipper like Holley, who has been tight with Pioli for the last decade, would have gotten the memo. Pioli and Weis (and Romeo) would be the brains behind the outfit, and that no-connection-to-the-Pats douchebag golf pro would be the turd in the punch bowl.

But it's clear from this interview that Holley is a fan of Haley, even questioning Fescoe's comment that he'd have preferred keeping Weis. That certainly doesn't jive with the idea of Pioli working the media against him.

If your primary mission is to quash rumors of dissent, simply tell someone that there is no dissent.

Regardless, whether or not the two guys like each other is ultimately immaterial. The fact of the matter is that both are performing their jobs horribly, and that's what they should be judged on.

BigRock
09-22-2011, 01:47 AM
If your primary mission is to quash rumors of dissent, simply tell someone that there is no dissent.

He can deny dissent and still bury Haley.

"No, I never saw any tension between them. I don't think Haley's a very good coach, though. Too big an ego. Single-handedly responsible for every bad decision the team has made. Refused to go along with many brilliant ideas Pioli had. They should have fired him and kept Weis. They should replace him with Josh McDaniels."

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2011, 02:31 AM
He can deny dissent and still bury Haley.

"No, I never saw any tension between them. I don't think Haley's a very good coach, though. Too big an ego. Single-handedly responsible for every bad decision the team has made. Refused to go along with many brilliant ideas Pioli had. They should have fired him and kept Weis. They should replace him with Josh McDaniels."

You can be a pawn without being a mindless husk. Let's not operate in binaries here. This stuff works in shades of gray. Again, this is all window dressing to the larger analysis, which should be an evaluation of how poorly they've performed their jobs.

BossChief
09-22-2011, 02:45 AM
You can be a pawn without being a mindless husk. Let's not operate in binaries here. This stuff works in shades of gray. Again, this is all window dressing to the larger analysis, which should be an evaluation of how poorly they've performed their jobs.

Question:

If Pioli had drafted Josh Freeman at 3 in 2009, would you still think he "is doing a poor job"?

What are your honest thoughts on Dick Stanzi?

Can we get a small update as to how things are going with the little ones? I understand if this is too personal.

Amnorix
09-22-2011, 06:54 AM
In other words, Belichick played Pioli like a drum.


Eh, maybe. I personally thought he had a very good chance of developing into an above average QB. He has terrific athleticism and was LIGHT YEARS better by the end of 2008 than he had been at the start of 2008. If he continued to progress at that trajectory, then he would be a very good starting QB.

I thought, in short, that he had all the "tools" and that his problems were fixable.

Apparently not.

BigRock
09-22-2011, 07:22 AM
You can be a pawn without being a mindless husk. Let's not operate in binaries here.

You must see more distinctions between "mindless husk" and "blind, ass-kissing homer who won't give a legitimate critique" than I do.

Again, all I'm saying is that if the description of Holley as this shameless water-carrier for The Belichick Tree is accurate, and if the idea that Pioli is trying to influence people in the media to take a negative slant against Haley is true, then it's a little strange that Holley's actually doing the complete opposite and talking Haley up. This doesn't strike me as a particularly controversial observation in any way.

But it would suggest to me that one element, either Holley's blind homerness or Pioli's anti-Haley campaign, is being overplayed. I don't know which, though I'd assume the latter.

And you're right, this is all irrelevant. But it's what the thread is about. Don't hate the player.

Marcellus
09-22-2011, 07:28 AM
So Holley is nothing but a shill for NE but Fatlock isn't the exact opposite?

I would argue Whitlock has a bigger axe to grind than Holley especially considering Pioli is not in NE any longer so he has nothing to gain from swinging from his nuts.

Whitlock will take every chance he gets to chastise Pioli and company because they locked his ass out.

Whitlock is hack and I am not going to take a damn thing he writes, good or bad, serious.

He said he didn't even know if Detroit actually tampered with a KC player even though Detroit lost a draft pick and had to swap a late rounder with KC.

But he didn't even know if the accusations were true. Good journalism there.

RUSH
09-22-2011, 07:38 AM
Not related to the conversation going on but I read somewhere that the book states that Dimitroff asked both Pioli and Belichick their opinion on the Julio Jones trade before it happened.

Belichick said he wouldn't do it and Pioli said he would.

Count Alex's Wins
09-22-2011, 08:06 AM
So Holley is nothing but a shill for NE but Fatlock isn't the exact opposite?

I would argue Whitlock has a bigger axe to grind than Holley especially considering Pioli is not in NE any longer so he has nothing to gain from swinging from his nuts.


Except that Holley has everything to gain from being a shill (seriously, why do you think he was chosen to write the book?) and Whitlock has nothing to gain comparatively from beating the shit out of Pioli's rep every chance he gets.

Holley = sellout

Whitlock = grandstanding attention whore

Frankie
09-22-2011, 11:25 AM
Eh, maybe. I personally thought he had a very good chance of developing into an above average QB. He has terrific athleticism and was LIGHT YEARS better by the end of 2008 than he had been at the start of 2008. If he continued to progress at that trajectory, then he would be a very good starting QB.

I thought, in short, that he had all the "tools" and that his problems were fixable.

Apparently not.

Well he proved with us that he quickly arrived at his ceiling, but that ceiling was not very high. I think Belichick knew this and would have cut him if nobody would trade for him. Our misfortune was that little boy Josh seemed to want Cassel too prompting Pioli to actually trade for him.

Or maybe Josh was playing Pioli like a drum too. :facepalm: