PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Gretz: No new QB...


Coogs
09-21-2011, 03:04 PM
...sounds like 3 more weeks of Cassel at least.

http://www.bobgretz.com/


September 21, 2011 - Bob Gretz | Comments (3)

From the Truman Sports Complex


Todd Haley said Wednesday afternoon it was too early to judge the performance of starting QB Matt Cassel, other than to say it must improve.

“Two games is too early to recognize an identity of a team,” Haley said. “We obviously need to change things here pretty quick to keep our identity from being something we don’t want it to be. It does take four or five games. The same goes for players.”

Statistically, only Jacksonville’s starting QB Josh McCown has gotten off to a worse start than Cassel. His passer rating is 50.4, a full 20 points behind the next guy above him in the league rankings. His 4.3 yards per passing attempt is the worst in the league. In 10 statistical areas for quarterbacks, Cassel’s highest ranking is No. 13 for completion percentage. Otherwise, he’s ranked 22 and below and in half of those categories, he’s ranked No. 30 or lower.

keg in kc
09-21-2011, 03:06 PM
That's good, actually. That means they do have a clock on him, even if it's not as quick as people might like.

DaKCMan AP
09-21-2011, 03:06 PM
We have a clear and identifiable identity: we suck..



..hopefully for Luck.

InChiefsHell
09-21-2011, 03:06 PM
I wouldn't expect a move before the bye week anyway. They have to give the 60 million dollar man a chance after all...

Coogs
09-21-2011, 03:07 PM
That's good, actually. That means they do have a clock on him, even if it's not as quick as people might like.

Yep! QB change over the bye week if things don't change.

DaKCMan AP
09-21-2011, 03:09 PM
The real question is do we screw it up and make a QB change to Palko instead of Stanzi?

Fish
09-21-2011, 03:09 PM
Todd Haley said Wednesday afternoon it was too early to judge the performance of starting QB Matt Cassel

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....................

ReynardMuldrake
09-21-2011, 03:09 PM
I believe this is the first Haley has hinted publicly that Cassel is in danger of seeing the bench. Sounds like he's sending him a message.

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2011, 03:11 PM
I believe this is the first Haley has hinted publicly that Cassel is in danger of seeing the bench. Sounds like he's sending him a message.

There is no message to send.....other than he doesn't belong on this team.

TEX
09-21-2011, 03:12 PM
Haley's got a point - 0-5 is technically worse than 0-2...:hmmm:

talastan
09-21-2011, 03:13 PM
The guy has thrown 4 INT in two games. He has only one TD in the same two games with a little over a 4 yd average on passing. If it is too early to judge so be it, but at least compare that to his "career" year last year.

Point being he should be on the hot seat right NOW!!

Molitoth
09-21-2011, 03:13 PM
I'm willing to accept a full year of 0-16 for a chance at Luck.

Keep Cassel in!

HemiEd
09-21-2011, 03:17 PM
It is hard for them to ignore those stats, even if they have their head clear up their butt.

The rest of us could see it from the second game his first year, that he didn't have it, but at least now they have gotten almost three years out of him for their big contract. :banghead: Maybe they can cut bait soon! There is hope!

Fruit Ninja
09-21-2011, 03:19 PM
Keep Cassel all 16 games. no more bullshitting. ITs Andrew Luck time.

loochy
09-21-2011, 03:19 PM
2 years isn't long enough?

acarter25
09-21-2011, 03:20 PM
That's good, actually. That means they do have a clock on him, even if it's not as quick as people might like.

This, I love the idea that they are at least acknowledging it now.

Old Dog
09-21-2011, 03:20 PM
That's good, actually. That means they do have a clock on him, even if it's not as quick as people might like.

Yep! QB change over the bye week if things don't change.

These.

The real question is do we screw it up and make a QB change to Palko instead of Stanzi?

I expect them to bring Palko in and then if he's as bad most of us expect, they give the ball to Stanzi for the muderers row we will face starting in week 12.

Tribal Warfare
09-21-2011, 03:21 PM
Keep Cassel all 16 games. no more bullshitting. ITs Andrew Luck time.

THIS...RIGHT...HERE

Fish
09-21-2011, 03:21 PM
2 years isn't long enough?

It's a process. He needs more weapons. I mean, just look at his OLine. And don't get me started on how many OCs they've had. Give Matt a chance....

KCrockaholic
09-21-2011, 03:21 PM
I just listened to the interview, and Haley is actually holding Matt responsible for a lot of things. Great to see.

DaKCMan AP
09-21-2011, 03:23 PM
2 years isn't long enough?

It's all about the Right 53... games.

Tribal Warfare
09-21-2011, 03:25 PM
I just listened to the interview, and Haley is actually holding Matt responsible for a lot of things. Great to see.

Todd Haley Q&A (http://www.kcchiefs.com/media-center/videos/From-the-Podium-Todd-Haley/39aef622-b8a5-4c34-979b-1518d9db8334)

keg in kc
09-21-2011, 03:26 PM
The real question is do we screw it up and make a QB change to Palko instead of Stanzi?If Stanzi can't even beat out Palko in practice at this point and get himself on the active gameday roster, I'm not sure how that can be construed as screwing up. Unless there's some kind of conspiracy behind it all, with 'the man' holding Stanzi down. Which I don't personally buy. They've always seemed pretty kosher with giving young players opportunities. When earned.

Fritz88
09-21-2011, 03:29 PM
The real question is do we screw it up and make a QB change to Palko instead of Stanzi?

Palko won't last much.

Ace Gunner
09-21-2011, 03:29 PM
Cassel has provided the offense with some stability, albeit horrible. the chiefs are currently 32nd rated offense and 32nd reated defense. that's identity... hahaha

HemiEd
09-21-2011, 03:29 PM
2 years isn't long enough?

No kidding, but I think it may be about egos and $$$.


Losing, and losing badly sucks.

Old Dog
09-21-2011, 03:30 PM
The only thing at this point that would really chap my ass is to see Cassel lead us to losses in the first six games, then Palko keep the string intact through week 15 and Stanzi come in and screw the pooch against Oakland and at Denver to put us at 2-14 and cause us to miss out on Luck.

No, I'm not hoping we lose, but if we're still looking like this in mid-December, I may be...even to Oakland and Denver.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 03:33 PM
It's funny how paranoid KC fans are. For years it's been develop a young qb. Now some people don't want the young QB to play this year because he might actually win some games and prevent KC from drafting another young QB who might win some games.

Guru
09-21-2011, 03:34 PM
I wouldn't expect a move before the bye week anyway. They have to give the 60 million dollar man a chance after all...
Yes, because the 2 previous years haven't taught us anything about him.
Yep! QB change over the bye week if things don't change.
don't hold your breath
The real question is do we screw it up and make a QB change to Palko instead of Stanzi?

If we do make the change, it will be Palko.

</post>
09-21-2011, 03:35 PM
The guy has thrown 4 INT in two games. He has only one TD in the same two games with a little over a 4 yd average on passing. If it is too early to judge so be it, but at least compare that to his "career" year last year.

Point being he should be on the hot seat right NOW!!

Going back to the Oakland game last year he's 9 ints and a fumble on 109 pass attempts.

Bane
09-21-2011, 03:35 PM
Cassel is in unless he gets injured..The end.

Ace Gunner
09-21-2011, 03:36 PM
It's funny how paranoid KC fans are. For years it's been develop a young qb. Now some people don't want the young QB to play this year because he might actually win some games and prevent KC from drafting another young QB who might win some games.

what's really nutty is the crowd that thinks the chiefs are or will manuever to draft Luck.

Pawnmower
09-21-2011, 03:36 PM
No, I'm not hoping we lose, but if we're still looking like this in mid-December, I may be...even to Oakland and Denver.

You are. Why not just embrace your inner gaylord?

Ace Gunner
09-21-2011, 03:37 PM
Cassel is in unless he gets injured..The end.

wrong o, betcha Haley sits him if he continues.

Bane
09-21-2011, 03:39 PM
wrong o, betcha Haley sits him if he continues.

That was the excuse all of last year......and the year before...YAWN...

Pawnmower
09-21-2011, 03:40 PM
wrong o, betcha Haley sits him if he continues.

There aren't enough enough quality players left to get injured to make things worse. He can only improve....sorry for the bad news.

Mr. Arrowhead
09-21-2011, 03:41 PM
Go Cassel, you go get us Andrew Luck

Sofa King
09-21-2011, 03:41 PM
It's funny how paranoid KC fans are. For years it's been develop a young qb. Now some people don't want the young QB to play this year because he might actually win some games and prevent KC from drafting another young QB who might win some games.

There's a difference between the best QB prospect in a decade and a ****ing 5th rounder....

That's my angle anyways.

Bane
09-21-2011, 03:42 PM
Go Cassel, you go get us Andrew Luck

Kinda my thoughts as well.Folks are begging for Stanzi to come in and "suck for Luck" when Casshole is doing an epic job of it already......Dumbasses.:banghead:

suds79
09-21-2011, 03:46 PM
Yes! More Cassel. PBJ

Taking him out could be the worse possible thing for us right now.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2011, 03:50 PM
There's a difference between the best QB prospect in a decade and a ****ing 5th rounder....

That's my angle anyways.

If a rookie QB can come on the field, with this team riddled with injuries, and get some wins then maybe the kid has something they should take a good hard look at.

Ace Gunner
09-21-2011, 03:54 PM
That was the excuse all of last year......and the year before...YAWN...

wait. you think an excuse is needed for a team that went from 2/14, 4/12 and finally 10/6. okay.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 03:59 PM
I bet that by week 8 or 9 Stanzi is our starter.

By then, he should know the playbook enough to play and will make just enough mistakes to keep us in contention for the #1 pick, but will look promising and it will give Zorn enough to work on him with over the offseason and into next preseason.

To me, that would be best case scenario if we win enough games to justify keeping Haley on board next year and dumping Muir and Cassel. Promote Zorn to OC, Siriannni to QB coach and let Haley call the fucking plays ffs.

If we clean sweep the coaching staff and lose Zorn, that will be a significant loss.

suds79
09-21-2011, 03:59 PM
It's funny how paranoid KC fans are. For years it's been develop a young qb. Now some people don't want the young QB to play this year because he might actually win some games and prevent KC from drafting another young QB who might win some games.

Almost any other year I would agree with you. But given what Luck is projected to be, can't chance it. This isn't just "another young QB".

We're going to be awful anyways. I say lets hedge our bets. We could have both.

Were really talking the difference between 3-13 (to where we could realistically end up and miss out on #1) vs 1-15 and Andrew Luck.

Nah I'll stick with Cassel.

Fruit Ninja
09-21-2011, 04:01 PM
If a rookie QB can come on the field, with this team riddled with injuries, and get some wins then maybe the kid has something they should take a good hard look at.

Nope, fuck that. its just time to draft a first round quarterback. NO more fucking around. 42 years of shit had lead me to think this way.

Im just tired of this franchise being ass. Its time to give your team a chance and the best chance is for this team to draft luck if they are in a position too.

I am sick and tired of hoping my football team can win a play off game. I want the Chiefs to be like the Lakers, championship or bust. Losing in the 2nd round is a failure, thats what the Chiefs franchise needs to be.

Bewbies
09-21-2011, 04:22 PM
I fully support Cassel remaining our starter, but would fully support Palko being our starter as well. Would prefer not to see Stanzi as we might win a game.

rocknrolla
09-21-2011, 04:41 PM
I believe this is the first Haley has hinted publicly that Cassel is in danger of seeing the bench. Sounds like he's sending him a message.

This is a first he has ever even questioned f**ck face's future. :D

Baby Lee
09-21-2011, 04:50 PM
Codeword for the day;

Excited

Tribal Warfare
09-21-2011, 04:53 PM
This is a first he has ever even questioned f**ck face's future. :D

Yep, jobs are on the line at it's time to show their cards.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 04:55 PM
The first steps of "The Process" of moving on from Cassel (YES!!!) have seemingly been taken.

I expect Cassel to come out against SD and try to push the ball down the field and for him to have to worst game of his life.

POINT:

I bet as soon as he had the first practice with Stanzi and he saw how much more along the kid was as a passer, it started to feel like USC all over again.

Hopefully, we can trade Matt to STL so JMD has someone to have as the long term backup. 3rd or 4th rounder hopefullly.

whoman69
09-21-2011, 04:55 PM
There are two winnable games before the bye week. IMO keeping Check Down in there before those games is giving up a loss. I really would like to hear the argument at that point, us being 0-5, to keep Check Down in? Is he the face of the future? It may not be a good idea to put Stanzi in against the Chargers, but what would hurt putting him in against the Vikings or the Colts? I have 0 confidence in Check Down providing us with any wins. Put Palko in. We may not win, but at least I don't have to see Check Down.

I have a question for the Suck for Luck crowd. Are you going to watch the games? If the Chiefs play that badly I can't stand to watch. Are you going to cheer when the other team scores? Are you going to throw a party after every loss? If its a joke, its getting old real fast.

suds79
09-21-2011, 04:59 PM
I have a question for the Suck for Luck crowd. Are you going to watch the games? If the Chiefs play that badly I can't stand to watch. Are you going to cheer when the other team scores? Are you going to throw a party after every loss? If its a joke, its getting old real fast.

I'll take this.

Yes we are going to watch. Even when the Chiefs lose, I want to see how some guys develop. ex: Houston, Baldwin, etc.

Do I cheer when the other team scores? Heck no. Never. But I'm pretty apathetic when it does happen. Saves me from getting gray hairs. Why get all worked up over the inevitable?

Am I going to throw a party after every loss? No. Just the that mathematically gives us the #1 overall pick.

It's no joke. It's a trade off. 16 games for 15 years.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 05:03 PM
I watch the games pretty much the same but with one small difference....when the other team scores, there is a feeling of purpose (for lack of a better word) that replaces the old feeling of "fuck, they just scored"....now, its like "ahh fuck it, one small step closer to maybe, FINALLY, having one of the best quarterbacks in football on the Chiefs."

Its not rooting against us, to me.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-21-2011, 05:10 PM
Haley doesn't give a shit anymore. You can hear it in his voice.

Scorp
09-21-2011, 05:13 PM
It's a process. He needs more weapons. I mean, just look at his OLine. And don't get me started on how many OCs they've had. Give Matt a chance....

YOU SHUT YOUR FACE!


Just kidding..... but seriously....... you shut your face!

keg in kc
09-21-2011, 05:17 PM
I bet as soon as he had the first practice with Stanzi and he saw how much more along the kid was as a passer, it started to feel like USC all over again.Yeah, cause he was so good in practice all through camp that he never pushed past 3rd on the depth chat behind Tyler freaking Palko.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 05:25 PM
Yeah, cause he was so good in practice all through camp that he never pushed past 3rd on the depth chat behind Tyler freaking Palko.

Playbook

Every single practice in training camp Stanzi was reportedly throwing touchdowns and Cassel struggled...the preseason games came along and Cassel struggled more and more and the moment Stanzi got in the games, he threw it downfield effortlessly and with far better accuracy than any quarterback in KC since Green. He was behind a line that was complete jailbreaks nearly every play and still showed the poise to slide and keep his eyes downfield and folow through on his passes to deliver a nice, accurate and catchable ball nearly every single time.

That is exactly what a QB has to do to be known as one of the guys that "beats the blitz"

That's not my opinion, those are facts.

Mr. Arrowhead
09-21-2011, 05:37 PM
When the other teams scores, im just gonna laugh real hard

Ace Gunner
09-21-2011, 05:42 PM
I fully support Cassel remaining our starter, but would fully support Palko being our starter as well. Would prefer not to see Stanzi as we might win a game.

:D

Okie_Apparition
09-21-2011, 05:54 PM
Cassel is going to have to push the ball down the field or get benched. Of course that will get him benched for the turnovers. His time as KC's starter can be counted in quarters

whoman69
09-21-2011, 05:55 PM
Yeah, cause he was so good in practice all through camp that he never pushed past 3rd on the depth chat behind Tyler freaking Palko.

I can't agree. He's # 3 on the depth chart because he had no offseason to learn the playbook. Unless you're Carolina and expecting the rooking to come in game one he's not going to get the reps in practice to learn it. Putting him in a game is going to mean only using a portion of the playbook. We're getting to the point that he has to get his feet wet.

For this game it might be rough to bring him in. OK, wait a game and put in Palko this week. I can't see anymore of Check Down. At some point in this season if this continues we are going to have to look to the future of the franchise. A 30 year old QB that can't get it done is not going to get better. He may play better in spurts. You can't say Stanzi will fail until he is given an opportunity. It may not be the best situation, but putting him in when were 0-12 is going to be too late.

Okie_Apparition
09-21-2011, 05:57 PM
Horne was elevated so he can be not dressed game day

Ace Gunner
09-21-2011, 06:17 PM
Cassel is going to have to push the ball down the field or get benched. Of course that will get him benched for the turnovers. His time as KC's starter can be counted in quarters

I was on that bandwagon last week. Nobody believed it :)

milkman
09-21-2011, 06:21 PM
Playbook

Every single practice in training camp Stanzi was reportedly throwing touchdowns and Cassel struggled...the preseason games came along and Cassel struggled more and more and the moment Stanzi got in the games, he threw it downfield effortlessly and with far better accuracy than any quarterback in KC since Green. He was behind a line that was complete jailbreaks nearly every play and still showed the poise to slide and keep his eyes downfield and folow through on his passes to deliver a nice, accurate and catchable ball nearly every single time.

That is exactly what a QB has to do to be known as one of the guys that "beats the blitz"

That's not my opinion, those are facts.

While I disagree with Keg's assessment of the situation, and agree that Stanzi impressed during the preseason, let us not forget, Max Hall and John Skelton impressed during the preseason for the Cardinals last year.

ILChief
09-21-2011, 06:38 PM
If they bench Cassel, Palko will start.

Marcellus
09-21-2011, 06:41 PM
If they bench Cassel, Palko will start.

That would be 100% proof they are playing for Luck.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 06:48 PM
While I disagree with Keg's assessment of the situation, and agree that Stanzi impressed during the preseason, let us not forget, Max Hall and John Skelton impressed during the preseason for the Cardinals last year.

Im trying to keep my takes on Stanzi reasonable, but the conversation of Palko being #2 and therefore better than Stanzi is horribly misguided if not for the playbook aspect.

BossChief
09-21-2011, 06:49 PM
If they bench Cassel, Palko will start.

Depends. If it happens at the bye week...absolutely ...if he doesn't get benched till like week 8 or 9, Stanzi will take the field.

keg in kc
09-21-2011, 07:27 PM
While I disagree with Keg's assessment of the situation, and agree that Stanzi impressed during the preseason, let us not forget, Max Hall and John Skelton impressed during the preseason for the Cardinals last year.Well, my assessment of the situation is that it probably would not take a whole lot for Stanzi to move past Palko on the depth chart, so I think it's probably meaningful that he hasn't. But that's just speculation on my part.

As far as how impressive Stanzi was in the preseason, as I recall, he was actually quite unimpressive for two games, then quite impressive for the third, and then didn't even play in the fourth. My point being: I think people tend to remember the positive much more than the negative when they're talking about a favorite backup quarterback. It's sort of the opposite of the way we treat starting quarterbacks. We remember the backup's good plays and tend to forget the struggles.

I do also, however, think it's meaningful that he was kept on the roster in the first place and not waived and moved to the practice squad. Although if I had to guess, I'd say that's more of a statement about the future than about 2011. I think they saw enough to believe they would have to protect him (from other teams) and that he has shown enough that they believe it worth doing so.

NJChiefsFan
09-21-2011, 07:31 PM
This seemed positive to me in regard to getting Matt out. I was expecting an answer to the tune of "Matt isn't the problem" or something like that. I would be more than glad to wait this out a few weeks. Even if Palko starts a week or two, I would just ideally like to give Stanzi 8 games if possible.

Either way, even if Stanzi lights it up, you can't pass Luck up.

Bewbies
09-21-2011, 07:33 PM
That would be 100% proof they are playing for Luck.

THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE WAITING FOR??

milkman
09-21-2011, 07:39 PM
Well, my assessment of the situation is that it probably would not take a whole lot for Stanzi to move past Palko on the depth chart, so I think it's probably meaningful that he hasn't. But that's just speculation on my part.

As far as how impressive Stanzi was in the preseason, as I recall, he was actually quite unimpressive for two games, then quite impressive for the third, and then didn't even play in the fourth. My point being: I think people tend to remember the positive much more than the negative when they're talking about a favorite backup quarterback. It's sort of the opposite of the way we treat starting quarterbacks. We remember the backup's good plays and tend to forget the struggles.

I do also, however, think it's meaningful that he was kept on the roster in the first place and not waived and moved to the practice squad. Although if I had to guess, I'd say that's more of a statement about the future than about 2011. I think they saw enough to believe they would have to protect him (from other teams) and that he has shown enough that they believe it worth doing so.

Here's what I remember.

In the first two games, Stanzi had to play behind guys on the line that couldn't block my dead grandmother.

He had maybe two plays that he didn't have someone on him almost before the snap, and one of those was great pass on the sideline that Horne dropped.

I also saw a guy that showed some moxie.

In the third game, he showed some ability, mixed in with a couple of bad decisions.

I don't think anyone saw enough to make a fair assesment, so I'm not ready to hand the keys over to him, but I am also not ruling out the possibility that he might be the best, most polished, QB on this roster in terms of mechanics and reads.

ILChief
09-21-2011, 07:40 PM
Either way, even if Stanzi lights it up, you can't pass Luck up.

That's what I'm worried about. I'd love to see Stanzi play but I worry that if he plays decent they'd pass on Luck. Or he wins just enough games to drop us out of the top pick.

NJChiefsFan
09-21-2011, 07:41 PM
That's what I'm worried about. I'd love to see Stanzi play but I worry that if he plays decent they'd pass on Luck. Or he wins just enough games to drop us out of the top pick.

In that line of thinking my fear would be that he plays well enough that if we finish say 2nd or 3rd that his play makes them shy away from trading for Luck.

ILChief
09-21-2011, 07:43 PM
In that line of thinking my fear would be that he plays well enough that if we finish say 2nd or 3rd that his play makes them shy away from trading for Luck.

I doubt there will be any trades for Luck. It's going to come down to us, Seattle, and Indianapolis (if Manning doesn't play). No way any of those three should trade out of #1.

keg in kc
09-21-2011, 08:06 PM
I don't think anyone saw enough to make a fair assesment, so I'm not ready to hand the keys over to him, but I am also not ruling out the possibility that he might be the best, most polished, QB on this roster in terms of mechanics and reads.I don't disagree with that, but I would probably go on to add that being the best, most polished QB on this roster might not necessarily be construed as high praise, or as quite enough in the way of qualification for starting time.

milkman
09-21-2011, 08:06 PM
I don't disagree with that, but I would probably go on to add that being the best, most polished QB on this roster might not necessarily be construed as high praise, or as quite enough in the way of qualification for starting time.

Which is why I pointed to Skelton and Hall.

But the fact that he is the most polished on this roster absolutely should earn him a spot on the roster, and should warrant consideration for #2 soon.

xztop12
09-21-2011, 08:43 PM
Identity of a team... hahahah more cliche's alrady... get this guy out of here

movinbones
09-22-2011, 08:28 AM
I'll take this.

Yes we are going to watch. Even when the Chiefs lose, I want to see how some guys develop. ex: Houston, Baldwin, etc.

Do I cheer when the other team scores? Heck no. Never. But I'm pretty apathetic when it does happen. Saves me from getting gray hairs. Why get all worked up over the inevitable?

Am I going to throw a party after every loss? No. Just the that mathematically gives us the #1 overall pick.

It's no joke. It's a trade off. 16 games for 15 years.

THIS

Chiefshrink
09-22-2011, 09:22 AM
That's good, actually. That means they do have a clock on him, even if it's not as quick as people might like.

while they get Stanzi up to speed to even more.:D

Ace Gunner
09-22-2011, 09:31 AM
Im trying to keep my takes on Stanzi reasonable, but the conversation of Palko being #2 and therefore better than Stanzi is horribly misguided if not for the playbook aspect.


Falko would be great if it weren't for the hollywood movie aspect.

keg in kc
09-22-2011, 11:00 AM
Im trying to keep my takes on Stanzi reasonableYeah, right. LMAObut the conversation of Palko being #2 and therefore better than Stanzi is horribly misguided if not for the playbook aspect

I'm going to start on a tangent: I think people have this misinterpretation that I have a thing against Stanzi. I don't. It's no secret that I was not particularly impressed by him in college, and I (vehemently) did not want them to draft him in the 2nd or 3rd round. But I was okay with a 5th, and the truth is that I'm not the kind of guy who's going to let a preconceived opinion of a player (good or bad) color anything once they reach the NFL. Frankly, draft analysis and college play mean absolutely nothing after the draft is over. Because at that point the slate is clean and you judge a guy based on what they do from that point on. At least that's how I see it.

Look, he didn't earn the backup job in camp. That's a simple fact. You can color it any way you want, but it doesn't change it. You guys are convinced that it must be due to the playbook, and maybe it is. I don't actually think I've said otherwise at any point. Although I will say one other thing: I thought Palko was the better player in the preseason. Not by much, which is a positive sign for Stanzi. But saying that doesn't mean I want to see Palko on the field. Personally, at this point, if it's not Cassel, I don't think either of them is the direction I'd go. I don't think Palko's an NFL quarterback, and I don't think Stanzi's ready to be an NFL quarterback.

And there's actually something that ties into that: this is just a guess on my part - it's not like I'm in practice or meetings... - but I'm not sure how much I buy into the idea that anybody is 'getting Stanzi ready' at this point. I suspect that most of their time and attention is spent on Cassel and the first team offense preparing the gameplan for that week, and that if Stanzi is getting any work at all, it's as the scout team QB. That's generally how it goes in the NFL as I understand it: the lion's share of the work goes to the starter. I doubt Stanzi gets much attention unless or until Cassel is out of the lineup and he's given an opportunity rather than Palko. And at that point, it's a thrown headfirst into the deep end of the pool situation, rather than a gently school and bring along a rookie. I don't believe there's ever actually that much "grooming" going on in terms of coaching on NFL teams for players who don't start, not during the regular season. I'm guessing at this point that whatever he learns will be primarily what he sees on film and during meetings.

But that's just a guess and I could be 180 degrees off from reality.

Chiefnj2
09-22-2011, 11:05 AM
I thought Palko was the better player in the preseason.

How?????

lcarus
09-22-2011, 11:06 AM
The real question is do we screw it up and make a QB change to Palko instead of Stanzi?

That's exactly why I don't care if Cassel is benched. They'll just go to Palko instead of Stanzi. Stupid.

keg in kc
09-22-2011, 11:34 AM
How?????Because I watched the games and I didn't/don't have any preconceived notions about the two players. I think people forget that he played relatively well in both the Baltimore and St. Louis games. All they remember is the So'oto pick. Sort of related to something I said yesterday: people like Stanzi so they'll focus only on the good plays and forget everything else. On the flip side, they don't like Palko so they won't remember anything positive.

I tend to try and be a little more level-headed about it.

As far as the original topic about Stanzi replacing Cassel, I actually don't/won't have a problem with Stanzi coming in. I only have a problem with bringing him in before he's prepared. And what I originally said is that I take the fact that he's 3rd on the depth chart as an indication that he's not.

Chiefnj2
09-22-2011, 11:37 AM
Because I watched the games and I didn't/don't have any preconceived notions about the two players. I think people forget that he played relatively well in both the Baltimore and St. Louis games. All they remember is the So'oto pick. Sort of related to something I said yesterday: people like Stanzi so they'll focus only on the good plays and forget everything else. On the flip side, they don't like Palko so they won't remember anything positive.

I tend to try and be a little more level-headed about it.

Palko looked like crap. He was throwing off of his back foot in the game you thought he looked good. Hell, Haley let him run with the 1st offense in the 3rd game and even subbed him in again late in the game to let him accomplish something and he failed. That's not even getting to the final game where he was atrocious.

lcarus
09-22-2011, 11:38 AM
Because I watched the games and I didn't/don't have any preconceived notions about the two players. I think people forget that he played relatively well in both the Baltimore and St. Louis games. All they remember is the So'oto pick. Sort of related to something I said yesterday: people like Stanzi so they'll focus only on the good plays and forget everything else. On the flip side, they don't like Palko so they won't remember anything positive.

I tend to try and be a little more level-headed about it.

As far as the original topic about Stanzi replacing Cassel, I actually don't/won't have a problem with Stanzi coming in. I only have a problem with bringing him in before he's prepared. And what I originally said is that I take the fact that he's 3rd on the depth chart as an indication that he's not.

I just think the potential with Stanzi is a lot higher. We all know Palko isn't going to amount to anything in this league. Stanzi is a question mark. Might as well see what he brings. I don't care that he is a rookie. Once we're 0-6 or 0-7 and the season is all but lost, there's really no reason not to see if this rookie can emerge as a good future prospect.

InChiefsHell
09-22-2011, 11:48 AM
I just think the potential with Stanzi is a lot higher. We all know Palko isn't going to amount to anything in this league. Stanzi is a question mark. Might as well see what he brings. I don't care that he is a rookie. Once we're 0-6 or 0-7 and the season is all but lost, there's really no reason not to see if this rookie can emerge as a good future prospect.

Yep, either as a keeper or trade bait. We have to figure out what Stanzi brings to the table.

keg in kc
09-22-2011, 12:53 PM
Palko looked like crap. He was throwing off of his back foot in the game you thought he looked good. Hell, Haley let him run with the 1st offense in the 3rd game and even subbed him in again late in the game to let him accomplish something and he failed. That's not even getting to the final game where he was atrocious.I never said that he "looked good". I said he played relatively well, and by that I mean in comparison to Stanzi in those same games.I just think the potential with Stanzi is a lot higher. We all know Palko isn't going to amount to anything in this league.I don't disagree with any of that. Well, check that, I think Stanzi's potential may be higher. Although I don't know about "a lot higher".Stanzi is a question mark. Might as well see what he brings. I don't care that he is a rookie. Once we're 0-6 or 0-7 and the season is all but lost, there's really no reason not to see if this rookie can emerge as a good future prospect.That's what I don't agree with, in any way, shape or form. I don't believe you just throw players into games on a whim to see how they'll do.

Now, on the other hand, if he earns the job, and they believe he can be a competitive NFL starting quarterback right now, as opposed to some "oh well, we're ****ed anyway, might as well throw this guy into there" mentality then fine, play him. No problem at all with that. But a guy has to be ready to play. Prepared for the speed of the game, prepared not only in terms of mastering our own playbook but just as importantly able to read/recognize and react to what defenses are going to throw at him. Throwing a guy in there as an experiment, some baptism of fire? No thanks.

Personally, I don't think Palko should be on the field either. As I've tried to explain about 27 times now, I'm not saying that he is or ever will be better than Stanzi. All I've said, simply put, is that I think it's meaningful that Stanzi has not surpassed him on the depth chart. I think that's evidence that perhaps Stanzi is not ready to play in an NFL game, and because I don't think 2nd or 3rd string quarterbacks get a whole lot of coaching during the season, I would suspect that means he may not be ready to play at any point in 2011.

But that's just my opinion. I'm admittedly cautious/conservative when it comes to quarterbacks. I think it's a position that takes years to learn, even for the best, and I don't personally believe there's anything to be gained by throwing young ones to the wolves, to borrow a phrase.

I think the real tragedy here is that we're talking about Cassel/Palko/Stanzi in this situation, that we don't have a better veteran backup than Palko, and that we didn't aquire a QBotF in the 2007-2008 time frame. I think that's going to set us back years going forward, whether it's Stanzi or Luck.

whoman69
09-22-2011, 02:24 PM
Say what you want about the lack of preparedness for our backups. What I know is the starter is not prepared right now. I have an absolute lack of confidence in said starter. He has proven he cannot be a capable player going forward. I have no faith in him. The fact that Palko probably will fail still elevates him over Check Down who I know is a fail. If Stanzi cannot play this year, he probably will never be able to play. The Chiefs will bring in another QB if there is no other option available. This is already a lost season for me. Week 1 was a wake-up call. Week 2 was a reality check. This team needs to see who is going to be a part of this franchise going forward. I give Todd Haley a 0% chance of retaining his job with Check Down behind center. There is absolutely no way they win a game the way Check Down is playing. I give Haley a small chance if he takes a chance and can get a few wins from someone else.

I hear the arguments that Pioli wants Check Down in there. Haley can't go against that. Under those circumstances he's going to lose his job anyway. If he's going out, he might as well try to go out fighting.

keg in kc
09-22-2011, 02:52 PM
If Stanzi cannot play this year, he probably will never be able to play.I think that's inherently a false assumption, on several different levels.

BossChief
09-22-2011, 03:50 PM
Keg, do you really believe that Palko is better than this guy?

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/stanzi1.gif

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/stanzi2.gif

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/stanzi3.gif

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/stanzi5.gif

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/stanzi6.gif

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/stanzi7.gif

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/stanzi8.gif

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/hof.gif

http://i54.tinypic.com/33m1ouv.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2wr0l0o.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/10opj6t.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/np1hdc.jpg

whoman69
09-22-2011, 03:57 PM
I think that's inherently a false assumption, on several different levels.

This team is tanking based on its current course. Given that, another QB will be drafted to right the ship. Where does that leave Stanzi? If he doesn't get a shot this year, he never will. If I'm Stanzi I want that shot because there may not be another.

keg in kc
09-22-2011, 04:00 PM
Keg, do you really believe that Palko is better than this guy?BossChief, do you really know how to read the English language? I mean, I don't particularly want to be insulting, but come on - how many times do I need to say the exact same thing until it starts to sink in...As I've tried to explain about 27 times now, I'm not saying that he is or ever will be better than Stanzi. All I've said, simply put, is that I think it's meaningful that Stanzi has not surpassed him on the depth chart. I think that's evidence that perhaps Stanzi is not ready to play in an NFL game, and because I don't think 2nd or 3rd string quarterbacks get a whole lot of coaching during the season, I would suspect that means he may not be ready to play at any point in 2011.

BossChief
09-22-2011, 04:06 PM
"I thought Palko was the better player in the preseason."

I think I read that just fine, wouldn't you agree?

keg in kc
09-22-2011, 04:11 PM
This team is tanking based on its current course. Given that, another QB will be drafted to right the ship. Where does that leave Stanzi? If he doesn't get a shot this year, he never will. If I'm Stanzi I want that shot because there may not be another.It's not a foregone conclusion that they tank, although I think they will. It's not a foregone conclusion that they draft a quarterback if they do tank, and I actually believe they won't; I think they'll go vet again, much to everybody's chagrin. And it's not a foregone conclusion if they do draft a quarterback and/or acquire a veteran that Stanzi won't get an opportunity to compete next year anyway.

I would further contend that playing Stanzi this year would perhaps not be giving him a shot so much as putting him in a position to fail. And in fact, much to the contrary of what I believe people probably think, I don't want to play him now because I think he deserves a legitimate shot later, when he'll actually be ready to perform. Which again, I think his current position on the depth chart speaks to.

That said, nothing would make me happier than seeing him move up the depth chart sometime in October, and then going out on the field and looking like Tom Brady. I just don't expect that, and I won't see it as a failure on either his part or the organization's if it doesn't happen.

keg in kc
09-22-2011, 04:12 PM
"I thought Palko was the better player in the preseason."

I think I read that just fine, wouldn't you agree?If you want to ignore the context of the hundreds and hundreds of other words I've said on the subject, certainly.

Maybe you just don't have the horsepower to handle it.

In any case, I think I've made my position plenty clear. It's not really worth getting into an argument over, because it's something I have nothing vested in personally and absolutely no ability to change. For right now Palko's 2 on the depth chart and Stanzi's 3, and all I can do is comment on that fact. I certainly can't change it.

If that fact changes, then the context of the discussion will change, because at that point it would appear that the team believes Stanzi more ready than they seem to believe he is right now.

Only time will tell.

BossChief
09-22-2011, 04:21 PM
If you want to ignore the context of the hundreds and hundreds of other words I've said on the subject, certainly.

Maybe you just don't have the horsepower to handle it.

In any case, I think I've made my position plenty clear. It's not really worth getting into an argument over, because it's something I have nothing vested in personally and absolutely no ability to change. For right now Palko's 2 on the depth chart and Stanzi's 3, and all I can do is comment on that fact. I certainly can't change it.

If that fact changes, then the context of the discussion will change, because at that point it would appear that the team believes Stanzi more ready than they seem to believe he is right now.

Only time will tell.

I was only responding to that quote the whole time and I thought that was clearly evident.

Sorry for not being clear enough, I guess.

Ive said many times, Stanzi has plenty of experience in this offense, he just needs to know the playbook.

That is the ONLY thing keeping him from being the #2 QB.

By mid season, that shouldn't be a problem anymore...but if he has to play after the bye that would be OK too. They might have to call plays from a limited amount of the playbook, but that doesn't change a thing because with Cassel at Qb, you cant call plays from a full playbook anyway due to his limitations.

suzzer99
09-22-2011, 05:00 PM
I fully agree that the Chiefs may not get the #1 pick no matter how hard they try. But if they do get the #1 pick they will draft Luck, barring a crazy collapse by him or injury. To think otherwise is silly.

whoman69
09-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Keg, didn't mean it as an argument. We will agree to disagree. To my mind it serves no purpose to put a dead man walking in at QB. There are some assumptions in my opinion. If Check Down stay in there I am 100 % confident we tank. We may not even win a game if he plays this badly. At some point you have to look to the future. When does that come? Is it when were 0-5?

Nobody here knows for sure why Stanzi is #3. It may be as simple as Palko has a year in the system. The fanbase will leave in droves if we get another retread QB. Its been nearly 30 years since we attempted to develop a QB. The time has come. If we have the #1 pick and pass on Luck, the Chiefs would be the laughingstock of the league as much as the Lions were when they drafted a WR every year. Either way if we draft Luck, Stanzi gets no shot. If we bring in a vet, that vet has to fail for Stanzi to get a shot.

Setsuna
09-22-2011, 10:07 PM
Yeah, cause he was so good in practice all through camp that he never pushed past 3rd on the depth chat behind Tyler freaking Palko.

Look dude, if Stanzi can't beat Palko, then let the mofo play. He'll lose those games for you worse than your top 2 QBs on your team right? Just by where he is on the depth chart. Because that truly defines someone's talent, right? Right?

Marcellus
09-22-2011, 10:16 PM
I fully agree that the Chiefs may not get the #1 pick no matter how hard they try. But if they do get the #1 pick they will draft Luck, barring a crazy collapse by him or injury. To think otherwise is silly.

I agree with all of it.

What the hell else would you do when the best QB prospect in years is in your lap and the new rookie salary system makes him as cheap as ever?

No brainer. Nobody could **** that up. if Carolina would get the pick for example they have to trade it, they just drafted a QB #1.

It would be interesting to see a team like Carolina get the #1 pick to see what they bounty is to get it. Holy shit. With the rookie salary set up it would make the pick worth more now in my opinion.

NJChiefsFan
09-22-2011, 10:44 PM
That's exactly why I don't care if Cassel is benched. They'll just go to Palko instead of Stanzi. Stupid.

Gotta do step 1 before you can get through step 2. If they bench Cassel based off his play, I really can't see Palko lasting the season.

Sucky
09-22-2011, 11:38 PM
Keep Cassel all 16 games. no more bullshitting. ITs Andrew Luck time.

agreed

Guru
09-22-2011, 11:57 PM
It's the Chiefs. They will screw this up.

suzzer99
09-22-2011, 11:59 PM
If we come close to getting Luck and miss, and he goes on to win multiple superbowls while we continue to suck, I seriously am going to leave the country. I just cannot take that. Not for 15 years.

You just know we're going to miss him by one game, where some bizzaro fluke play gives us the win. And at the time we will all say "yep, there goes our shot at Luck". Then as the season develops, the Seahawks will blow like 5 more winnable games in the most frustrating way possible. And it will just be slow motion water torture - knowing what's going to happen and that nothing on earth will prevent it. Then we'll draft some D-lineman at #2 who will go on to a mediocre 6-year career with us before we trade him for a bag of chips.

Ace Gunner
09-23-2011, 12:07 AM
ya. then again, it may be the plan has been laid out to play all these rooks - hell even start them all season and develop them for next year while also putting Matt Cassel on the spot to either lay golden eggs or move the **** over.

They started Bailey at RDE the first game and Sabby has taken a ton of snaps. Scheffield and Houston play a ton of snaps too. Jahlil Brown is playing nickel and dime.

To me, it's beginning to shape up the guys many are calling ****tards are actually way ahead of the game.

Tuckdaddy
09-23-2011, 12:13 AM
We have seen as good as he gets and that's not nearly good enough. The fact is that Haley knows it but can't do anythinhg ablout it. He will not get better and if the management at One Arrowhead Derive told the truth they would admit they fugged up by trading for him. KC is being plain ole bull headed by keeping him on the field.


GET ME LUCK.

Tribal Warfare
09-23-2011, 05:36 AM
We have seen as good as he gets and that's not nearly good enough. The fact is that Haley knows it but can't do anythinhg ablout it. He will not get better and if the management at One Arrowhead Derive told the truth they would admit they fugged up by trading for him. KC is being plain ole bull headed by keeping him on the field.


Clark GET ME LUCK.

FYP