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johnny961
10-12-2011, 11:59 AM
Because a tolerance builds up, marijuana can lead users to consume stronger drugs to achieve the same high. There is a reason it's called the "Gateway" drug. When the effects start to wear off, people may turn to more potent drugs to rid themselves of the unwanted conditions that prompted them to take marijuana in the first place. Marijuana itself does not lead the person to the other drugs: people take teh drugs to get rid of the unwanted situations or feelings. When the "high" fades, the problem, unwanted condition or situation returns more intensely than before. Users may then turn to stronger drugs since marijuana no longer "works". Marijuana effects coordination and distortions in the sense of time, vision, and hearing. It speeds your heart rate up and in the first hour of smoking marijuana could raise a users risk of a heart attack five times. Over the long haul it can cause psychotic symptoms and cause damage to the lungs and the heart and can reduce the body's ability to fight lung infections and illness.

According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.

Alcohol is just as dangerous, they both should be outlawed.

Marijuana in itself does NOT lead to harder drug use/abuse. Drug abuse is from what I've seen usually caused by unaddressed/untreated social, emotional, and/or psychological issues that compel an individual to seek that more intense "high" in the first place. The arguments you are using against recreational pot use are akin to stating that anyone who enjoys a glass of wine with their dinner occasionally has a drinking problem. Which is not the case.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 12:00 PM
I come off as a complete Pot head, I know that. I make myself sound like a loser stoner guy because I smoke weed everyday. But I am a perfect example of how weed does not cause you to make bad choices nor does it affect your life in a negative way.

I have been working the same job, a good job, for the past 6 years now. I am in no way at risk of losing it. I've become the owner's right hand man.

I never get high before or during work. It does not affect my job performance. Chiefsplanet does though.....but that's another story.

I get up every morning, go to work. Come home. Take care of whatever I need to take care of...yesterday it was laundry. Work out. Cook dinner.

By about 10 pm my day is done. Now it's time to smoke a bowl.

To me, weed is like a good beer after a hard days work. It's just a nice, relaxing perk at the end of the day.

So why do people like you try to tell me it's so bad?

DaFace
10-12-2011, 12:02 PM
I'm cool with this. These are proven causal relationships.

Marijuana effects coordination and distortions in the sense of time, vision, and hearing. It speeds your heart rate up and in the first hour of smoking marijuana could raise a users risk of a heart attack five times. Over the long haul it can cause psychotic symptoms and cause damage to the lungs and the heart and can reduce the body's ability to fight lung infections and illness.

I'm not cool with this. Again, correlation does not equate to causation.

According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.

The_Doctor10
10-12-2011, 12:02 PM
Marijuana effects coordination and distortions in the sense of time, vision, and hearing. It speeds your heart rate up and in the first hour of smoking marijuana could raise a users risk of a heart attack five times. Over the long haul it can cause psychotic symptoms and cause damage to the lungs and the heart and can reduce the body's ability to fight lung infections and illness.

According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.

Alcohol is just as dangerous, they both should be outlawed.

I already posted several long term risks and no Phil I don't use that.[/QUOTE]

Show me ONE instance where this has happened. And not 'I saw a guy smoke up and then collapse clutching his chest'. Because I don't believe any of the stories you've told thus far. Show me one medical report where marijuana was the direct cause of a heart attack. Because in 2009, not one death was reported due to marijuana. In fact, not one death has ever been reported due to marijuana. Stop lying to children.

Pants
10-12-2011, 12:02 PM
According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.


I'm sure the statistics are there, but the cause/effect is all wrong.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 12:07 PM
According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.



Wow. This is a straight up lie. Pure Lie. The fact that this is even being taught to kids in school is criminal.

NewChief
10-12-2011, 12:08 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Pants
10-12-2011, 12:12 PM
Wow. This is a straight up lie. Pure Lie. The fact that this is even being taught to kids in school is criminal.

Well, it's like DaFace said, the statistics could be true, but it doesn't mean that marijuana made those kids violent or more apt to steal. It just means that the kids who are troublemakers have less qualms about smoking weed.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 12:16 PM
Well, it's like DaFace said, the statistics could be true, but it doesn't mean that marijuana made those kids violent or more apt to steal. It just means that the kids who are troublemakers have less qualms about smoking weed.

I agree.

It's just the way they portray that statistic that makes them liars.

Pants
10-12-2011, 12:18 PM
I agree.

It's just the way they portray that statistic that makes them liars.

Yeah, and Lono is fully indoctrinated. Nothing short of a forced THC consumption will ever make him think differently.

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 12:20 PM
LMAO Lono is fucking delusional.

DaFace
10-12-2011, 12:22 PM
Just for fun, here are a few neat facts:

Murder rates tend to go up when ice cream sales are higher.
Kids with larger shoe sizes tend to have higher reading abilities.
People who own red cars are twice as likely to have an accident as people who own blue cars.
Men who have beards are happier than men who do not.
People who drink coffee are more likely to develop pancreatic cancer.
Sleeping with one's shoes on is strongly correlated with waking up with a headache.
Human birth rates directly correlate to stork population sizes in Europe.

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 12:35 PM
Just for fun, here are a few neat facts:

Murder rates tend to go up when ice cream sales are higher.
Kids with larger shoe sizes tend to have higher reading abilities.
People who own red cars are twice as likely to have an accident as people who own blue cars.
Men who have beards are happier than men who do not.
People who drink coffee are more likely to develop pancreatic cancer.
Sleeping with one's shoes on is strongly correlated with waking up with a headache.
Human birth rates directly correlate to stork population sizes in Europe.

:LOL:

philfree
10-12-2011, 12:37 PM
This thread has inspired me to put on my blue jeans made out of hemp. :hmmm: I just hope it doesn't make my leggs start craving some cola.

-King-
10-12-2011, 12:38 PM
Guess where all alcoholics started out? Drinking breast milk. Breast milk = The gateway intoxicant
Posted via Mobile Device

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 12:38 PM
This thread has inspired me to put on my blue jeans made out of hemp. :hmmm: I just hope it doesn't make my leggs start craving some cola.

Well...if statistics are correct, they might make your legs wanna ninja kick children in their face.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 12:39 PM
Guess where all alcoholics started out? Drinking breast milk. Breast milk = The gateway intoxicant
Posted via Mobile Device

You have changed my life.

philfree
10-12-2011, 12:40 PM
Well...if statistics are correct, they might make your legs wanna ninja kick children in their face.

High Karate!

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 12:41 PM
I come off as a complete Pot head, I know that. I make myself sound like a loser stoner guy because I smoke weed everyday. But I am a perfect example of how weed does not cause you to make bad choices nor does it affect your life in a negative way.

I have been working the same job, a good job, for the past 6 years now. I am in no way at risk of losing it. I've become the owner's right hand man.

I never get high before or during work. It does not affect my job performance. Chiefsplanet does though.....but that's another story.

I get up every morning, go to work. Come home. Take care of whatever I need to take care of...yesterday it was laundry. Work out. Cook dinner.

By about 10 pm my day is done. Now it's time to smoke a bowl.

To me, weed is like a good beer after a hard days work. It's just a nice, relaxing perk at the end of the day.

So why do people like you try to tell me it's so bad?
Dude, it's no different than someone having a few drinks after work.

LiveSteam
10-12-2011, 12:43 PM
I love lime green buds!

LiveSteam
10-12-2011, 12:44 PM
I hate alcohol. nasty!

Fish
10-12-2011, 12:46 PM
When I worked for a large Kansas school district while attending college, there were a surprising number of people working for the district that smoked pot on the side. I bet Lono would shit himself if he knew how many of his coworkers were secretly puffing the devil weed...

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 12:51 PM
When I worked for a large Kansas school district while attending college, there were a surprising number of people working for the district that smoked pot on the side. I bet Lono would shit himself if he knew how many of his coworkers were secretly puffing the devil weed...

heh. Ditto here.

High school rather than college though.

I had a friend that I worked with who was a Russian Jewish Teacher. I was but a mere Teacher's Assistant at the time. He threw a party for teachers in the district.

Holy fuck do teachers know how to party.

NOT what I was expecting at all. I couldn't keep up...this was when I was 19-20 years old. There were teachers who i had classes with there getting hammered and slutty....it was amazing.

tooge
10-12-2011, 12:56 PM
I've got a couple of buddies that pretty much get high when ever we go do anything. I'm talking golf, fishing, camping, you name it, and they seem to function fine. I smoked quite a bit in college and really kind of enjoyed the high. I don't do it mainly because I always got real squinty eyed and laughed at shit that really wasn't funny at all to the point my stomach and face would hurt. I don't think I'd like being in very many places where I looked and acted like that now. As far as legality, I'm all for it. I think alcohol is much more dangerous even though I put a buzz on from time to time.

Pants
10-12-2011, 12:59 PM
I've got a couple of buddies that pretty much get high when ever we go do anything. I'm talking golf, fishing, camping, you name it, and they seem to function fine. I smoked quite a bit in college and really kind of enjoyed the high. I don't do it mainly because I always got real squinty eyed and laughed at shit that really wasn't funny at all to the point my stomach and face would hurt. I don't think I'd like being in very many places where I looked and acted like that now. As far as legality, I'm all for it. I think alcohol is much more dangerous even though I put a buzz on from time to time.

Yeah, the biggest side effect of weed is that it makes your face hurt because you can't stop grinning.

tooge
10-12-2011, 01:01 PM
Yeah, the biggest side effect of weed is that it makes your face hurt because you can't stop grinning.

that and I'd go outside to get something, and then when I'd get there, I'd start farting around and realize I didn't know why the hell I was out there. Somehow I still managed to do well in school, but I'm not sure how.

DaFace
10-12-2011, 01:03 PM
When I worked for a large Kansas school district while attending college, there were a surprising number of people working for the district that smoked pot on the side. I bet Lono would shit himself if he knew how many of his coworkers were secretly puffing the devil weed...

My best friend (a high school history teacher) moved to a small town recently and commented that he'd probably never smoke again. Last week, he told me that the elementary music teacher had a whole group of people over (all teachers) to smoke a bowl.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 01:03 PM
Yeah, the biggest side effect of weed is that it makes your face hurt because you can't stop grinning.

heh.

I remember the second time I got high. My roommates and I were throwing a party at our house and some cute chicks came over. I remember somehow two of them managed to be in my room, and on my bed. They were flirting with me all night, wouldn't stop giving me attention. These chicks were totally digging me.

But...I was so fucking high i felt like I was melting into the floor. I felt like I couldn't get up and my face was locked into a dumb smile. So i was stuck on my bedroom floor high as fuck with these two cute chicks laying on my bed.....

I think I coulda landed a 3-some....but then i got high....

Good times. Good times.

tooge
10-12-2011, 01:10 PM
heh.

I remember the second time I got high. My roommates and I were throwing a party at our house and some cute chicks came over. I remember somehow two of them managed to be in my room, and on my bed. They were flirting with me all night, wouldn't stop giving me attention. These chicks were totally digging me.

But...I was so ****ing high i felt like I was melting into the floor. I felt like I couldn't get up and my face was locked into a dumb smile. So i was stuck on my bedroom floor high as **** with these two cute chicks laying on my bed.....

I think I coulda landed a 3-some....but then i got high....

Good times. Good times.

Ok then, biggest side effect of weed so far seems to be that it prevents threesomes, followed by it makes you grin. No wonder its banned

Predarat
10-12-2011, 01:13 PM
This thread is even more proof that men like arguing just as much as women.

No we don't.

NewChief
10-12-2011, 01:13 PM
Ok then, biggest side effect of weed so far seems to be that it prevents threesomes, followed by it makes you grin. No wonder its banned

People who participate in threesomes are 75% more likely to contact an STD than the general population.

tooge
10-12-2011, 01:16 PM
People who participate in threesomes are 75% more likely to contact an STD than the general population.

then they wake up in their huge shoes with a headache, go to eat icecream and read a book, and get killed.

Fish
10-12-2011, 01:16 PM
My best friend (a high school history teacher) moved to a small town recently and commented that he'd probably never smoke again. Last week, he told me that the elementary music teacher had a whole group of people over (all teachers) to smoke a bowl.

You gotta watch out for those elementary music teacher... obviously a violent lot... Good to hear that your friend survived..

Pants
10-12-2011, 01:20 PM
You gotta watch out for those elementary music teacher... obviously a violent lot... Good to hear that your friend survived..

Barely. He was violently beaten to a pulp and robbed of all his possessions first.

NewChief
10-12-2011, 01:21 PM
then they wake up in their huge shoes with a headache, go to eat icecream and read a book, and get killed.

Now that I think about it... if weed saves you from the perils of threesomes, then it can't be all bad.

Fat Elvis
10-12-2011, 01:47 PM
Marijuana effects coordination and distortions in the sense of time, vision, and hearing.

I no longer smoke, but uh, that right there is kind of the point of smoking marijuana.

Carlota69
10-12-2011, 02:04 PM
I don't like cocaine, I just like the way it smells.

LMAO! I love that...

Carlota69
10-12-2011, 02:06 PM
I alwyays found the whole "marijuana is a "gateway" drug thing odd. I mean, when did most people start smoking weed? For me, it was after I had been to a few kegger parties and was introduced to pot. I never considered smoking it til I started going to those parties. So, for me, alcohol was the gateway to marijuana and then whatever after that.

Slainte
10-12-2011, 02:13 PM
I wish I was as high as this stupid fucking thread.

Otter
10-12-2011, 02:19 PM
heh.

I remember the second time I got high. My roommates and I were throwing a party at our house and some cute chicks came over. I remember somehow two of them managed to be in my room, and on my bed. They were flirting with me all night, wouldn't stop giving me attention. These chicks were totally digging me.

But...I was so ****ing high i felt like I was melting into the floor. I felt like I couldn't get up and my face was locked into a dumb smile. So i was stuck on my bedroom floor high as **** with these two cute chicks laying on my bed.....

I think I coulda landed a 3-some....but then i got high....

Good times. Good times.

I remember the first time I got high, I smoked once or twice before, but this is the first time I was high as giraffe pussy and for some dumb reason me and my roommate who I smoked with decided to go to class.

He sat next to me and we were in C++ and the girl sitting in front of me shirts tag was hanging out the back of her shirt. I'd flick it and we we would laugh to the point of tears. We couldn't even look at each other. Eventually caught the profs attention and he called me up to the white board to explain a bubble sort. I was in front of the class, you could have blind folded me with dental floss, got about 1/2 through the algorithm and made eye contact with Kurt and burst out laughing and couldn't stop. I was sent home for the day and passed out from laughing so hard.

Ah, college.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 02:23 PM
I remember the first time I got high, I smoked once or twice before, but this is the first time I was high as giraffe pussy and for some dumb reason me and my roommate who I smoked with decided to go to class.

He sat next to me and we were in C++ and the girl sitting in front of me shirts tag was hanging out the back of her shirt. I'd flick it and we we would laugh to the point of tears. We couldn't even look at each other. Eventually caught the profs attention and he called me up to the white board to explain a bubble sort. I was in front of the class, you could have blind folded me with dental floss, got about 1/2 through the algorithm and made eye contact with Kurt and burst out laughing and couldn't stop. I was sent home for the day and passed out from laughing so hard.

Ah, college.

Heh. I remember the first time I got high. My roommates and I were sitting on the couch laughing at each other laughing.

I had a bag of cheetos in my hand and everytime I would crunch down on one I would start laughing until my side hurt.

That's the beauty about the first few times. EVERYTHING is funny.

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 02:40 PM
I remember the first time I got high, I smoked once or twice before, but this is the first time I was high as giraffe pussy and for some dumb reason me and my roommate who I smoked with decided to go to class.

He sat next to me and we were in C++ and the girl sitting in front of me shirts tag was hanging out the back of her shirt. I'd flick it and we we would laugh to the point of tears. We couldn't even look at each other. Eventually caught the profs attention and he called me up to the white board to explain a bubble sort. I was in front of the class, you could have blind folded me with dental floss, got about 1/2 through the algorithm and made eye contact with Kurt and burst out laughing and couldn't stop. I was sent home for the day and passed out from laughing so hard.

Ah, college.
LMAO

The_Doctor10
10-12-2011, 02:50 PM
Now that I think about it... if weed saves you from the perils of threesomes, then it can't be all bad.

Dude, worst conversation ever... 'why'd you cum in her and not me?'... I don't need that shit.

tooge
10-12-2011, 02:55 PM
I remember the first time I got high, I smoked once or twice before, but this is the first time I was high as giraffe pussy and for some dumb reason me and my roommate who I smoked with decided to go to class.

He sat next to me and we were in C++ and the girl sitting in front of me shirts tag was hanging out the back of her shirt. I'd flick it and we we would laugh to the point of tears. We couldn't even look at each other. Eventually caught the profs attention and he called me up to the white board to explain a bubble sort. I was in front of the class, you could have blind folded me with dental floss, got about 1/2 through the algorithm and made eye contact with Kurt and burst out laughing and couldn't stop. I was sent home for the day and passed out from laughing so hard.

Ah, college.

I was deer hunting with a buddy of mine when I was younger (Yeah, I know, not real smart). He said something somewhat funny and we started laughing our asses off. Same thing, we couldn't even look at each other. We're just sitting in the blind, looking at opposite walls and trying to be quiet. Finally we become quiet. I slowly pull out a doe bleat call and turn it over and make the bleat. We literally lose it. Hunt over.

-King-
10-12-2011, 02:58 PM
I remember the first time I got high, I smoked once or twice before, but this is the first time I was high as giraffe pussy and for some dumb reason me and my roommate who I smoked with decided to go to class.

He sat next to me and we were in C++ and the girl sitting in front of me shirts tag was hanging out the back of her shirt. I'd flick it and we we would laugh to the point of tears. We couldn't even look at each other. Eventually caught the profs attention and he called me up to the white board to explain a bubble sort. I was in front of the class, you could have blind folded me with dental floss, got about 1/2 through the algorithm and made eye contact with Kurt and burst out laughing and couldn't stop. I was sent home for the day and passed out from laughing so hard.

Ah, college.

ROFL

XXXshogunXXX
10-12-2011, 03:04 PM
I think its time for an upgrade

Beer to scotch, and

http://www.drugsimages.com/img/cocaine-lines.jpg

Otter
10-12-2011, 03:06 PM
I was deer hunting with a buddy of mine when I was younger (Yeah, I know, not real smart). He said something somewhat funny and we started laughing our asses off. Same thing, we couldn't even look at each other. We're just sitting in the blind, looking at opposite walls and trying to be quiet. Finally we become quiet. I slowly pull out a doe bleat call and turn it over and make the bleat. We literally lose it. Hunt over.

Oh yeah, not being supposed to laugh makes it all the worse because that's what you wind up laughing at.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 03:10 PM
Oh yeah, not being supposed to laugh makes it all the worse because that's what you wind up laughing at.

heh. Yup...

mikeyis4dcats.
10-12-2011, 03:19 PM
you know how you can tell a drug user is a moron.

You tell them you pre-screen for drugs, and they still fail for pot. Dumbass.

chasedude
10-12-2011, 04:14 PM
Alcohol kills more teenagers than all other drugs combined. Prohibition was cancelled in 1933 because of such a boom in illegal alcohol trade. People illegally sell meth every day, does that mean we should make it legal? The truth is, 15 million Americans suffer from alcoholism and 40% of all car accident deaths involve alcohol. I have kids and think life would be a whole lot better without either. Obviously people are not responsible enough to drink at home or with a DD.

Bring back Prohibition eh? Don't punish the majority when a minority can't handle it. If 10% of the population has a alcohol problem we make the other 90% conform to the minority whims, no sir.

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 05:26 PM
I think its time for an upgrade

Beer to scotch, and

http://www.drugsimages.com/img/cocaine-lines.jpg

You think you might want to remove your sig? That gif is old, and in case you haven't heard, LJ is no longer on the Chiefs.

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 05:30 PM
I alwyays found the whole "marijuana is a "gateway" drug thing odd. I mean, when did most people start smoking weed? For me, it was after I had been to a few kegger parties and was introduced to pot. I never considered smoking it til I started going to those parties. So, for me, alcohol was the gateway to marijuana and then whatever after that.

For me, MJ was the gateway to Alcohol. That got old quick so I went back to weed.

Otter
10-12-2011, 05:40 PM
Alcohol is just as dangerous, they both should be outlawed.

One last thought on this...

In all fairness I do understand why as an educator you can't tell students it's OK to use pot or alcohol but the inevitable fact is that some point down the road they are going to try both or have someone share their experience with them who has tried it and it's going to serve as a rationalization to believe that everything you ever told them was bullshit.

Not sure how I would go about introducing students to the subject. That would take some serious thought that I don't get paid for and not willing to put the time into but demonizing something that can allow people to think outside the box and serve as a tool to broaden your perspective of your life isn't the answer.

I'd guess I'd just be honest and explain the pros and cons informing them the best you can and let them make their own decision, which is going to happen anyway. The main reason our country and government are so ****ed up is because no one is honest with one another. It's become an art to learn to lie to get your own agenda across as opposed to confronting what is happening. Look at our politicians for proof of how that works out in the long run.

There's an old Apache saying about how white men (all men and women today) were so hard to reason with because they knew how to lie without actually lying that I really wish I could remember because it would fit in perfect here.

Learn what you can and cannot control and share that knowledge because it's the best you can do to prepare people for pretty much anything.

As far as outlawing both, take a look at history and human nature to see how that works out. It doesn't.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 05:41 PM
One last thought on this...

In all fairness I do understand why as an educator you can't tell students it's OK to use pot or alcohol but the inevitable fact is that some point down the road they are going to try both or have someone share their experience with them who has tried it and it's going to serve as a rationalization to believe that everything you ever told them was bullshit.

Not sure how I would go about introducing students to the subject. That would take some serious thought that I don't get paid for and not willing to put the time into but demonizing something that can allow people to think outside the box and serve as a tool to broaden your perspective of your life isn't the answer.

I'd guess I'd just be honest and explain the pros and cons informing them the best you can and let them make their own decision, which is going to happen anyway. The main reason our country and government are so ****ed up is because no one is honest with one another. It's become an art to learn to lie to get your own agenda across as opposed to confronting what is happening. Look at our politicians for proof of how that works out in the long run.

There's an old Apache saying about how white men (all men and women today) were so hard to reason with because they knew how to lie without actually lying that I really wish I could remember because it would fit in perfect here.

Learn what you can and cannot control and share that knowledge.

As far as outlawing both, take a look at history and human nature to see how that works out. It doesn't.

Can't be said any better than that.

The_Doctor10
10-12-2011, 06:58 PM
One last thought on this...

In all fairness I do understand why as an educator you can't tell students it's OK to use pot or alcohol but the inevitable fact is that some point down the road they are going to try both or have someone share their experience with them who has tried it and it's going to serve as a rationalization to believe that everything you ever told them was bullshit.

Not sure how I would go about introducing students to the subject. That would take some serious thought that I don't get paid for and not willing to put the time into but demonizing something that can allow people to think outside the box and serve as a tool to broaden your perspective of your life isn't the answer.

I'd guess I'd just be honest and explain the pros and cons informing them the best you can and let them make their own decision, which is going to happen anyway. The main reason our country and government are so ****ed up is because no one is honest with one another. It's become an art to learn to lie to get your own agenda across as opposed to confronting what is happening. Look at our politicians for proof of how that works out in the long run.

There's an old Apache saying about how white men (all men and women today) were so hard to reason with because they knew how to lie without actually lying that I really wish I could remember because it would fit in perfect here.

Learn what you can and cannot control and share that knowledge because it's the best you can do to prepare people for pretty much anything.

As far as outlawing both, take a look at history and human nature to see how that works out. It doesn't.

/Thread

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 07:13 PM
Lono wants the government to hold his hand.

Gonzo
10-12-2011, 07:29 PM
I've smoked weed 3 times in my life. All 3 times I puked my guts out and felt miserable.
Of course, if I drink too much the same thing happens. I do agree that alcohol can have a lot more severe effects on certain peoples personality though. (Ever see an episode of cops?)

A lot more domestics occur by ol' drunken Barney than super-high hippie douche.
Posted via Mobile Device

KcMizzou
10-12-2011, 10:11 PM
I've smoked weed 3 times in my life. All 3 times I puked my guts out and felt miserable.
Of course, if I drink too much the same thing happens. I do agree that alcohol can have a lot more severe effects on certain peoples personality though. (Ever see an episode of cops?)

A lot more domestics occur by ol' drunken Barney than super-high hippie douche.
Posted via Mobile Device I've never heard of that. From coughing?

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 11:03 PM
I've never heard of that. From coughing?

Maybe. I've known a few who've done that. Mostly chicks though :)

I did know one dude who got nausea from it and then vomited.

Count Alex's Losses
10-12-2011, 11:04 PM
Try really hard drugs.

Lots of them.

luv
10-12-2011, 11:07 PM
One last thought on this...

In all fairness I do understand why as an educator you can't tell students it's OK to use pot or alcohol but the inevitable fact is that some point down the road they are going to try both or have someone share their experience with them who has tried it and it's going to serve as a rationalization to believe that everything you ever told them was bullshit.

Not sure how I would go about introducing students to the subject. That would take some serious thought that I don't get paid for and not willing to put the time into but demonizing something that can allow people to think outside the box and serve as a tool to broaden your perspective of your life isn't the answer.

I'd guess I'd just be honest and explain the pros and cons informing them the best you can and let them make their own decision, which is going to happen anyway. The main reason our country and government are so ****ed up is because no one is honest with one another. It's become an art to learn to lie to get your own agenda across as opposed to confronting what is happening. Look at our politicians for proof of how that works out in the long run.

There's an old Apache saying about how white men (all men and women today) were so hard to reason with because they knew how to lie without actually lying that I really wish I could remember because it would fit in perfect here.

Learn what you can and cannot control and share that knowledge because it's the best you can do to prepare people for pretty much anything.

As far as outlawing both, take a look at history and human nature to see how that works out. It doesn't.

You were high when you typed that, weren't you? :p

teedubya
10-12-2011, 11:27 PM
And not only can you smoke it...

but the industrial HEMP, is the best plant known in existence.

You could literally go down the cereal aisle... get a box of say, "Hemp Nuts", the cereal, the box, the ink printed on the box, the plastic sealed pouch and the shitty toy inside could all be made from hemp...

you could go to the cashier... and pay with Cash or credit, both made from hemp... and put your cereal in a paper or plastic bag, both made from hemp.

You could then get into you car, that is mostly made from hemp... and go the gas station and get some hempseed oil fuel for your car... and go home and eat your ****ing cereal.

And you can grow 40-60 harvests of hemp on one acre over the 20+ years that would take to harvest that same one acre of trees.

And yet, people here tell me there are no conspiracies in America... long live organized corruption!! Hey, let's cut down some more rain forests!!

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 11:40 PM
And not only can you smoke it...

but the industrial HEMP, is the best plant known in existence.

You could literally go down the cereal aisle... get a box of say, "Hemp Nuts", the cereal, the box, the ink printed on the box, the plastic sealed pouch and the shitty toy inside could all be made from hemp...

you could go to the cashier... and pay with Cash or credit, both made from hemp... and put your cereal in a paper or plastic bag, both made from hemp.

You could then get into you car, that is mostly made from hemp... and go the gas station and get some hempseed oil fuel for your car... and go home and eat your ****ing cereal.

And you can grow 40-60 harvests of hemp on one acre over the 20+ years that would take to harvest that same one acre of trees.

And yet, people here tell me there are no conspiracies in America... long live organized corruption!! Hey, let's cut down some more rain forests!!This may be the 1st sensible thing you've posted in awhile.

teedubya
10-12-2011, 11:42 PM
This may be the 1st sensible thing you've posted in awhile.

I post shit to make people think... the official story is rarely the real story. I'm not always correct, but I'm always seeking information and researching shit, while most people sit on their ass on the couch drooling watching reality TV.

Count Alex's Losses
10-12-2011, 11:48 PM
how do you make a car out of hemp?

teedubya
10-12-2011, 11:52 PM
how do you make a car out of hemp?

Not the whole car... but the hempseed oil can be made into a very strong industrial plastic, much like oil can.

Big Oil is a huge lobbyist who is against the legalization of mj.

Henry Ford invented a car that had hemp plastic fenders, bumpers, etc... and ran on hempseed oil in late 1930's... right after it was completed, hemp became a narcotic and illegal... until WW2, then it was used for canvas, rope, uniforms, etc... then illegal again after the war.

http://hempcar.org/hempfacts.shtml

teedubya
10-12-2011, 11:54 PM
And the illegalization of this plant... is just part of the same corruption that runs the petrochemical, pharmaceutical, medical, agricultural, military, corporation, banking cartel.

Count Alex's Losses
10-12-2011, 11:55 PM
So if hemp is so useful, how come there isn't a hemponomy in some other country?

KurtCobain
10-12-2011, 11:57 PM
So if hemp is so useful, how come there isn't a hemponomy in some other country?

I gonna go fix the economy...

But then I got high

philfree
10-13-2011, 01:13 AM
http://youtu.be/-ItL_N400V4

See there...I been drinkin'!

teedubya
10-13-2011, 01:16 AM
So if hemp is so useful, how come there isn't a hemponomy in some other country?

Same reason as... "if fiat currency were so evil, why does most every country have it?"

The tentacles of the 'powers that be' are long and strong... and down to get the friction on.

philfree
10-13-2011, 01:56 AM
http://youtu.be/Zx6ERscWybs

RubberSponge
10-13-2011, 04:28 AM
Because a tolerance builds up, marijuana can lead users to consume stronger drugs to achieve the same high. There is a reason it's called the "Gateway" drug. When the effects start to wear off, people may turn to more potent drugs to rid themselves of the unwanted conditions that prompted them to take marijuana in the first place. Marijuana itself does not lead the person to the other drugs: people take teh drugs to get rid of the unwanted situations or feelings. When the "high" fades, the problem, unwanted condition or situation returns more intensely than before. Users may then turn to stronger drugs since marijuana no longer "works". Marijuana effects coordination and distortions in the sense of time, vision, and hearing. It speeds your heart rate up and in the first hour of smoking marijuana could raise a users risk of a heart attack five times. Over the long haul it can cause psychotic symptoms and cause damage to the lungs and the heart and can reduce the body's ability to fight lung infections and illness.

According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.

Alcohol is just as dangerous, they both should be outlawed.

Uh, no, liar. You don't stop getting the effects from marijuana after continued use. I'm actually laughing that you think that at some point it stops working. It shows how much you really know about it to the experienced individual. It just doesn't do what you think it does. No matter how many health books you read out loud to your class, or some lame excuse a kid gives you because he/she knows you will fall for it. It doesn't make anyone to seek a stronger drug either that they won't seek it out anyway. I know this personally through real world experience. Being around those that use marijuana and using marijuana myself.

The 18th admendment worked out so well that we had to repeal it that was such a huge mistake for this country. But let's go ahead and ignore the facts of history, right? Thank goodness you aren't a history teacher. Just admit you are a moral crusader that wants everyone to live by your own standards. Not someone who really is keen on the idea of freedom.

You are just like those that rallied against alcohol in the late 1800's and early 1900's that said one drop of alcohol could send you into delirium.

Buck
10-13-2011, 06:24 AM
Whenever I smoke after drinking heavily, it just turns into the highest high ever, and it's great...unless you need to like, be somewhere.

Buck
10-13-2011, 06:26 AM
Man I love alcohol, and I love weed.

There is no way to choose just one. There's nothing like getting drunk with your friends. Getting high with your friends is fun too, but it's just not as fun as drinking.

Getting high by yourself is way better than drinking by yourself though.

Inspector
10-13-2011, 06:46 AM
how do you make a car out of hemp?


Cheech and Chong made one.

Lono
10-13-2011, 07:21 AM
Uh, no, liar. You don't stop getting the effects from marijuana after continued use. I'm actually laughing that you think that at some point it stops working. It shows how much you really know about it to the experienced individual. It just doesn't do what you think it does. No matter how many health books you read out loud to your class, or some lame excuse a kid gives you because he/she knows you will fall for it. It doesn't make anyone to seek a stronger drug either that they won't seek it out anyway. I know this personally through real world experience. Being around those that use marijuana and using marijuana myself.

The 18th admendment worked out so well that we had to repeal it that was such a huge mistake for this country. But let's go ahead and ignore the facts of history, right? Thank goodness you aren't a history teacher. Just admit you are a moral crusader that wants everyone to live by your own standards. Not someone who really is keen on the idea of freedom.

You are just like those that rallied against alcohol in the late 1800's and early 1900's that said one drop of alcohol could send you into delirium.

Lol you guys are quite hilarious. I didn't expect to change any of your minds. You all obviously smoke pot and like it. I said, if one is going to be illegal they both should be. I'm sure the meth heads think they are fine on it also. It comes down to not being able to make wise choices on your own. There have been comments in this very thread by pot smokers who said it doesn't do anything to them to make them do something stupid. The guy passed up a three some for goodness sakes because he couldn't do anything. It might make you feel good, but jumping in a car afterward wouldn't be the wisest choice. I'm teaching kids to make the wise decisions, if you don't like it, suck it.

Carlota69
10-13-2011, 07:29 AM
Lol you guys are quite hilarious. I didn't expect to change any of your minds. You all obviously smoke pot and like it. I said, if one is going to be illegal they both should be. I'm sure the meth heads think they are fine on it also. It comes down to not being able to make wise choices on your own. There have been comments in this very thread by pot smokers who said it doesn't do anything to them to make them do something stupid. The guy passed up a three some for goodness sakes because he couldn't do anything. It might make you feel good, but jumping in a car afterward wouldn't be the wisest choice. I'm teaching kids to make the wise decisions, if you don't like it, suck it.

Comparing methheads and potheads shows are ignorant you are. Meth Kills. Period. Pot kills a bag of Doritos. However, I agree that getting behind the wheel after a bong toke or a shot of tequila is a bad idea.

Gonzo
10-13-2011, 07:34 AM
Maybe. I've known a few who've done that. Mostly chicks though :)

I did know one dude who got nausea from it and then vomited.

It was more like motion sickness I think. Room starts spinning, then??? Bbbbblllllaaaaahhhhh!
Posted via Mobile Device

Lono
10-13-2011, 07:39 AM
Comparing methheads and potheads shows are ignorant you are. Meth Kills. Period. Pot kills a bag of Doritos. However, I agree that getting behind the wheel after a bong toke or a shot of tequila is a bad idea.

My point was to sound ridiculous, kind of like these guys thinking I should teach kids it's ok to smoke pot.

NewChief
10-13-2011, 07:40 AM
It was more like motion sickness I think. Room starts spinning, then??? Bbbbblllllaaaaahhhhh!
Posted via Mobile Device

Were you already drunk? If so... bad idea.

NewChief
10-13-2011, 07:41 AM
My point was to sound ridiculous, kind of like these guys thinking I should teach kids it's ok to smoke pot.

I don't think anyone is saying you should teach kids it's okay to smoke pot. They're saying that you shouldn't feed them full of disinformation that they're going to (if they don't already) find out is false. That way, your actual message of "make wise decisions, don't smoke pot for these legitimate reasons" won't be so easily dismissed by your students.

You've already said that you aren't telling them, "Pot makes you violent" and some of your other more erroneous claims, so I've got no problem with your message.

Fishpicker
10-13-2011, 07:43 AM
Lol you guys are quite hilarious. I didn't expect to change any of your minds. You all obviously smoke pot and like it. I said, if one is going to be illegal they both should be. I'm sure the meth heads think they are fine on it also. It comes down to not being able to make wise choices on your own. There have been comments in this very thread by pot smokers who said it doesn't do anything to them to make them do something stupid. The guy passed up a three some for goodness sakes because he couldn't do anything. It might make you feel good, but jumping in a car afterward wouldn't be the wisest choice. I'm teaching kids to make the wise decisions, if you don't like it, suck it.

you're either a teetotaler or a troll but you sound silly regardless.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/f0qJcGhmvqc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and why kids should do drugs.

Lono
10-13-2011, 07:47 AM
you're either a teetotaler or a troll but you sound silly regardless.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/f0qJcGhmvqc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and why kids should do drugs.

Way to add substance to this thread, your and idiot.

RubberSponge
10-13-2011, 08:26 AM
Lol you guys are quite hilarious. I didn't expect to change any of your minds. You all obviously smoke pot and like it. I said, if one is going to be illegal they both should be. I'm sure the meth heads think they are fine on it also. It comes down to not being able to make wise choices on your own. There have been comments in this very thread by pot smokers who said it doesn't do anything to them to make them do something stupid. The guy passed up a three some for goodness sakes because he couldn't do anything. It might make you feel good, but jumping in a car afterward wouldn't be the wisest choice. I'm teaching kids to make the wise decisions, if you don't like it, suck it.

You aren't teaching them to make wise choices. You are teaching them to make ill-informed, uneducated choices under the disguise that you actually know what you're talking about. You're being deceitful and dishonest about the facts with those students. And the sad part is you don't even realize you are.

DaFace
10-13-2011, 08:48 AM
Lol you guys are quite hilarious. I didn't expect to change any of your minds. You all obviously smoke pot and like it. I said, if one is going to be illegal they both should be. I'm sure the meth heads think they are fine on it also.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs42/f/2009/093/5/9/Double_Facepalm_by_ScotlandForLife.jpg

You know that whole "losing credibility" thing everyone keeps talking about, where kids stop listening? Making ignorant statements like the above is a sure way to do it.

Lono
10-13-2011, 09:16 AM
DaFace, go read post 330.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 11:01 AM
The guy passed up a three some for goodness sakes because he couldn't do anything. It might make you feel good, but jumping in a car afterward wouldn't be the wisest choice. I'm teaching kids to make the wise decisions, if you don't like it, suck it.

Guess I wouldn't be able to go out and steal and act violently then either, could I?

That story I shared was the one and only time something like that ever happened....even still, the only "Dumb" choice I made that night was not having sex. Good thing that's not against the law, right?

You just prove post after post that you really don't understand the effects of MJ. It's not like alcohol, which is probably all you have to compare it to.

Unlike alcohol, you don't lose your ability to reason while high. When you get high you understand that you are too high to drive. When you drink, you know you're drunk but you drive anyway because you get "beer balls".

If anything, weed can make you paranoid and afraid to take the risk. Alcohol makes you brave and more willing to take the risk.

The_Doctor10
10-13-2011, 11:58 AM
My point was to sound ridiculous, kind of like these guys thinking I should teach kids it's ok to smoke pot.

Why is it not okay to use something that is demonstrably less harmful than a plethora of legal products? Never mind booze or cigarettes, are you telling your kids how many people die from Vicodin or OxyContin use every year?

NewChief
10-13-2011, 12:10 PM
Why is it not okay to use something that is demonstrably less harmful than a plethora of legal products? Never mind booze or cigarettes, are you telling your kids how many people die from Vicodin or OxyContin use every year?

Because it's illegal. He can't go telling students to engage in illegal activity. Additionally, the vast majority of ODs on opiates are a result of illegally using those "medicines" as well.

I'm not defending everything Lono has said, but I don't expect him to start teaching kids to engage in illegal activity either... not if he wants to keep his job.

Lono
10-13-2011, 12:28 PM
Why is it not okay to use something that is demonstrably less harmful than a plethora of legal products? Never mind booze or cigarettes, are you telling your kids how many people die from Vicodin or OxyContin use every year?

Actually, we do talk about Oxycontin and how it is as powerful as heroin and affects your body in the same way. Look, we will have to agree to disagree on the subject. I try to teach kids to make good choices in life, be it food, drugs, peer pressure, whatever. I will never teach a kid it's okay to partake in something that is illegal, period.

Pants
10-13-2011, 12:29 PM
I will never teach a kid it's okay to partake in something that is illegal, period.

So teach them that instead of the lies about how marijuana will make you violent and turn you into a kleptomaniac. LOL

Lono
10-13-2011, 12:34 PM
So teach them that instead of the lies about how marijuana will make you violent and turn you into a kleptomaniac. LOL

You guys just make stuff up. I never said I taught kids that, I said that was my experience around it.

Pants
10-13-2011, 12:35 PM
You guys just make stuff up. I never said I taught kids that, I said that was my experience around it.

You have no experience around it. You quoted some government study and that's your only point of reference.

The_Doctor10
10-13-2011, 12:37 PM
Actually, we do talk about Oxycontin and how it is as powerful as heroin and affects your body in the same way. Look, we will have to agree to disagree on the subject. I try to teach kids to make good choices in life, be it food, drugs, peer pressure, whatever. I will never teach a kid it's okay to partake in something that is illegal, period.

Why not just go with some old lawyer speak? 'It's illegal, so for that reason, you're better off leaving it alone. But medically speaking, the World Health Organization has never recorded a death due to marijuana overdose'; can they really sanction you for saying something factually accurate?

I understand that you have a curriculum and most of my frustration is directed towards the powers that be rather than yourself. But I assume that science classes can talk about the real impact of weapons-grade plutonium beyond 'it's illegal to have, so we don't need to worry about it'.

Beyond that, there are places in America where it IS legal. So how do you reconcile that with them, without them immediately tuning you out because they a) don't think you know what you're talking about or b) are lying to them?

In addition, if you tell them that Oxys are as powerful as heroin, how do you also explain why one is legal and the other is not? Not that I encourage opiate addictions, I'm just curious.

Rausch
10-13-2011, 12:52 PM
In addition, if you tell them that Oxys are as powerful as heroin, how do you also explain why one is legal and the other is not? Not that I encourage opiate addictions, I'm just curious.

One requires that you continue to see a MD every 3 months and 1 doesn't.

And, quite frankly, I think weed is a less dangerous drug than Alcohol.

My opinion.

But when we bring reality and the law into the picture there are very different consequences...

Lono
10-13-2011, 01:06 PM
You have no experience around it. You quoted some government study and that's your only point of reference.

Keep telling me what I have experienced. Go smoke another bowl. I can handle people disagreeing, but you are just being a troll, go away.

Pants
10-13-2011, 01:22 PM
Keep telling me what I have experienced. Go smoke another bowl. I can handle people disagreeing, but you are just being a troll, go away.

I haven't smoked marijuana in years. I'm not that big of a fan. And no, I'm not being a troll. Why don't you tell us of your experience when someone you know turned violent after smoking marijuana.

Lono
10-13-2011, 01:35 PM
I haven't smoked marijuana in years. I'm not that big of a fan. And no, I'm not being a troll. Why don't you tell us of your experience when someone you know turned violent after smoking marijuana.

I think I already addressed this once... I was talking about Alcohol and Marijuana when I said they turned violent, you can go back and look if you'd like. You want my actual view? My view is Alcohol is probably worse because it is a depressant and brings out more aggressive emotions. However, addicted users of drugs who can't support their habit steal for it. Whether its mj, cocaine, or prescription drugs. That is what I saw happen in college over and over again. Best friends kicked out of college because they fought after one stole the others game console to sell for weed. The dorms were full of fights over weed. Oh I can't say that because I don't know what I'm talking about.

Brock
10-13-2011, 01:37 PM
I think I already addressed this once... I was talking about Alcohol and Marijuana when I said they turned violent, you can go back and look if you'd like. You want my actual view? My view is Alcohol is probably worse because it is a depressant and brings out more aggressive emotions. However, addicted users of drugs who can't support their habit steal for it. Whether its mj, cocaine, or prescription drugs. That is what I saw happen in college over and over again. Best friends kicked out of college because they fought after one stole the others game console to sell for weed. The dorms were full of fights over weed. Oh I can't say that because I don't know what I'm talking about.

The fights sound like they were over game consoles and money, not weed.

teedubya
10-13-2011, 01:38 PM
I think I already addressed this once... I was talking about Alcohol and Marijuana when I said they turned violent, you can go back and look if you'd like. You want my actual view? My view is Alcohol is probably worse because it is a depressant and brings out more aggressive emotions. However, addicted users of drugs who can't support their habit steal for it. Whether its mj, cocaine, or prescription drugs. That is what I saw happen in college over and over again. Best friends kicked out of college because they fought after one stole the others game console to sell for weed. The dorms were full of fights over weed. Oh I can't say that because I don't know what I'm talking about.

If weed were legal, there would be no fights over weed. No selling stolen shit for weed.

Weed isn't the problem. Idiots are.

Pants
10-13-2011, 01:38 PM
I think I already addressed this once... I was talking about Alcohol and Marijuana when I said they turned violent, you can go back and look if you'd like. You want my actual view? My view is Alcohol is probably worse because it is a depressant and brings out more aggressive emotions. However, addicted users of drugs who can't support their habit steal for it. Whether its mj, cocaine, or prescription drugs. That is what I saw happen in college over and over again. Best friends kicked out of college because they fought after one stole the others game console to sell for weed. The dorms were full of fights over weed. Oh I can't say that because I don't know what I'm talking about.

Those people were just already shitty people to begin with. Why can't you understand that? Weed will never drive anyone to do anything they weren't already willing to do sober. It's not crack, it's not heroin, it's not even cocaine. So you do understand that the high you get on weed will not turn you violent, correct?

DaFace
10-13-2011, 01:39 PM
Apparently, my college experience was pretty tame. I barely even knew any drug users, let alone witnessed fights over it. I'd love to meet a violent stoner - it would be...enlightening.

NewChief
10-13-2011, 01:41 PM
Apparently, my college experience was pretty tame. I barely even knew any drug users, let alone witnessed fights over it. I'd love to meet a violent stoner - it would be...enlightening.

Well, I hung out with a ton of stoners throughout college (I followed the Grateful Dead and Phish around after all). I never saw an actual fight over weed until later in life when some people I know were heavily on the business end of things. There were some fights then, because it involved people going to jail for significant amounts of time and losing significant amounts of money. That isn't because of weed, though. It's because these people chose to be CRIMINALS making tons of money from engaging in illegal activities.

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2011, 01:43 PM
Lono is straight out of the 50s.

REEFER IS SATANS PLANT

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 01:45 PM
The fights sound like they were over game consoles and money, not weed.

This.

We're not talking about meth or heroin here. If someone is going to steal your shit over weed then they're probably just as likely to steal your shit for some rolled tacos.

Lono
10-13-2011, 01:47 PM
Those people were just already shitty people to begin with. Why can't you understand that? Weed will never drive anyone to do anything they weren't already willing to do sober. It's not crack, it's not heroin, it's not even cocaine. So you do understand that the high you get on weed will not turn you violent, correct?

Correct, I didn't say weed made you violent, I said it could help lead you into bad decisions. Alcohol can make you violent.

Pants
10-13-2011, 01:48 PM
The fights sound like they were over game consoles and money, not weed.

Go smoke another bowl, you pothead.

The_Doctor10
10-13-2011, 01:49 PM
One requires that you continue to see a MD every 3 months and 1 doesn't.

And, quite frankly, I think weed is a less dangerous drug than Alcohol.

My opinion.

But when we bring reality and the law into the picture there are very different consequences...

I've never been arguing that weed is more dangerous than alcohol; it seems pretty self-evident that it isn't.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 01:50 PM
Correct, I didn't say weed made you violent, I said it could help lead you into bad decisions. Alcohol makes you violent.

Let say someone got high..they're chilling with their friends and playing some video games. What bad decisions do you think that person would make?

What do you think weed actually does to a persons rationale?

Brock
10-13-2011, 01:52 PM
Let say someone got high..they're chilling with their friends and playing some video games. What bad decisions do you think that person would make?

What do you think weed actually does to a persons rationale?

http://reason.com/assets/mc/jsullum/2011_01/reefer-madness.jpg

Pants
10-13-2011, 01:52 PM
Correct, I didn't say weed made you violent, I said it could help lead you into bad decisions. Alcohol can make you violent.

You sure implied it:

People can eat red meat and not want to steal, or beat someone's butt.

That quote came from you trying to show the difference between red meat consumption and marijuana consumption.

RubberSponge
10-13-2011, 01:54 PM
Correct, I didn't say weed made you violent, I said it could help lead you into bad decisions. Alcohol can make you violent.

So many times where cannabis has kept me out of making bad decisions. I couldn't even count the amount.

Lono
10-13-2011, 01:58 PM
Let say someone got high..they're chilling with their friends and playing some video games. What bad decisions do you think that person would make?

What do you think weed actually does to a persons rationale?

I think if you jump in a car to go get some Cheetos, you would be putting not only yourself but others at risk.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:01 PM
I think if you jump in a car to go get some Cheetos, you would be putting not only yourself but others at risk.

I agree.

That would be a dumb choice on the users part. But that's the equivalent of telling someone not to drive while on Vicadin.

What does that have to do with the weed itself? What do you think the weed does to a persons rationale? You think it's the weed that makes that person make a dumb choice?

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:02 PM
You sure implied it:



That quote came from you trying to show the difference between red meat consumption and marijuana consumption.

Actually no, that quote came from this post.
Alcohol kills more teenagers than all other drugs combined. Prohibition was cancelled in 1933 because of such a boom in illegal alcohol trade. People illegally sell meth every day, does that mean we should make it legal? The truth is, 15 million Americans suffer from alcoholism and 40% of all car accident deaths involve alcohol. I have kids and think life would be a whole lot better without either. Obviously people are not responsible enough to drink at home or with a DD.

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:03 PM
I agree.

That would be a dumb choice on the users part. But that's the equivalent of telling someone not to drive while on Vicadin.

What does that have to do with the weed itself?

It's not legal to smoke weed, that's the difference. Drugs are drugs, they are all bad for you if taken incorrectly.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:04 PM
It's not legal to smoke weed, that's the difference.

In 16 States it is legal.

So....?

Brock
10-13-2011, 02:06 PM
It's not legal to smoke weed, that's the difference. Drugs are drugs, they are all bad for you if taken incorrectly.

Okay, finally. BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL, THAT'S WHY!!!

Fish
10-13-2011, 02:07 PM
I think if you jump in a car to go get some Cheetos, you would be putting not only yourself but others at risk.

FYI... there have been quite a few studies done on that...

“Crash culpability studies have failed to demonstrate that drivers with cannabinoids in the blood are significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be culpable in road crashes.” This result is likely because subject under the influence of marijuana are aware of their impairment and compensate for it accordingly, such as by slowing down and by focusing their attention when they know a response will be required. This reaction is just the opposite of that exhibited by drivers under the influence of alcohol, who tend to drive in a more risky manner proportional to their intoxication.

Today, a large body of research exists exploring the impact of marijuana on psychomotor skills and actual driving performance. This research consists of driving simulator studies, on-road performance studies, crash culpability studies, and summary reviews of the existing evidence. To date, the result of this research is fairly consistent: Marijuana has a measurable yet relatively mild effect on psychomotor skills, yet it does not appear to play a significant role in vehicle crashes, particularly when compared to alcohol.

REFERENCE: G. Chesher and M. Longo. 2002. Cannabis and alcohol in motor vehicle accidents. In: F. Grotenhermen and E. Russo (Eds.) Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential. New York: Haworth Press. Pp. 313-323. There was a clear relationship between alcohol and culpability. … In contrast, there was no significant increase in culpability for cannabinoids alone. While a relatively large number of injured drivers tested positive for cannabinoids, culpability rates were no higher than those for the drug free group. This is consistent with other findings.”


REFERENCE: Logan, M.C., Hunter, C.E., Lokan, R.J., White, J.M., & White, M.A. (2000). The Prevalence of Alcohol, Cannabinoids, Benzodiazepines and Stimulants Amongst Injured Drivers and Their Role in Driver Culpability: Part II: The Relationship Between Drug Prevalence and Drug Concentration, and Driver Culpability. Accident Analysis and Prevention, 32, 623-32.
… THC's effects on road-tracking after doses up to 300 µg/kg never exceeded alcohol's at bacs of 0.08%; and, were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs. Yet, THC's effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the formers users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence.”


REFERENCE: H. Robbe. 1995. Marijuana’s effects on actual driving performance. In: C. Kloeden and A. McLean (Eds) Alcohol, Drugs and Traffic Safety (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Misc/driving/s1p2.htm) T-95. Adelaide: Australia: HHMRC Road Research Unit, University of Adelaide. Pp. 11-20.
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:08 PM
My question still remains, how does weed alter a persons rationale to make them make bad choices? And what are some good examples of those bad choices?

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:09 PM
In 16 States it is legal.

So....?

Those states are legal for medical purposes only. Not for an ordinary person.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:13 PM
Those states are legal for medical purposes only. Not for an ordinary person.

Uhm....so?

Does weed have a different effect for medical patients vs non medical patients?

BTW, typical medical strains are far more potent than typical "street" strains....In case you weren't aware.

Yeah....the legal stuff is some of the strongest, best stuff money can buy.

Go Government!

DaFace
10-13-2011, 02:16 PM
I kind of wish there were another anti-weed poster in here. This discussion is interesting, but I hate that it's basically a Lono pile-on.

Pants
10-13-2011, 02:17 PM
Those states are legal for medical purposes only. Not for an ordinary person.

Same applies to Vicodin.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:20 PM
I kind of wish there were another anti-weed poster in here. This discussion is interesting, but I hate that it's basically a Lono pile-on.

I agree. I don't like the pile on either. Wish there were others with the same views as Lono.

NewChief
10-13-2011, 02:20 PM
I kind of wish there were another anti-weed poster in here. This discussion is interesting, but I hate that it's basically a Lono pile-on.

Heh. That's why I started halfway defending him a few pages back.

Pants
10-13-2011, 02:22 PM
Actually no, that quote came from this post.
Alcohol kills more teenagers than all other drugs combined. Prohibition was cancelled in 1933 because of such a boom in illegal alcohol trade. People illegally sell meth every day, does that mean we should make it legal? The truth is, 15 million Americans suffer from alcoholism and 40% of all car accident deaths involve alcohol. I have kids and think life would be a whole lot better without either. Obviously people are not responsible enough to drink at home or with a DD.

ORLY?

If you are going to compare red meat with drugs there is no reason for us to discuss it.

I guess I'll play, people can eat red meat and go drive. People can eat red meat and not want to steal, or beat someone's butt. There is zero comparison there. Eating red meat will only effect that person, no one else.

Pants
10-13-2011, 02:23 PM
Heh. That's why I started halfway defending him a few pages back.

All he has to do is own up to being wrong.

If I start claiming the Earth is flat and arguing vehemently with those who oppose my view, I deserve a pile on.

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:29 PM
ORLY?

I have to get back to class but, where in that quote did I saw marijuana. The quote I posted before it, was talking about alcohol.

Oh and I am not claiming anything, marijuana is illegal because its not good for you. You are the one arguing.

Brock
10-13-2011, 02:31 PM
I have to get back to class but, where in that quote did I saw marijuana. The quote I posted before it, was talking about alcohol.

Oh and I am not claiming anything, marijuana is illegal because its not good for you. You are the one arguing.

No, that isn't why it's illegal.

Pants
10-13-2011, 02:32 PM
marijuana is illegal because its not good for you

LMAO

DaFace
10-13-2011, 02:33 PM
All he has to do is own up to being wrong.

If I start claiming the Earth is flat and arguing vehemently with those who oppose my view, I deserve a pile on.

He's not necessarily "wrong" on everything. I agree that you shouldn't teach kids that it's fine and dandy to get high all day long. For one, it is illegal, and a high school kid getting thrown in jail can be a trigger for more behavioral problems. Also, there clearly are some negative long-term health consequences for abusers.

As he's said, he isn't a fan of alcohol either. While I don't personally agree, he's being consistent in his views of alcohol and marijuana, and has even conceded that the former is possibly worse than the latter. In that sense, he agrees with most people in here that marijuana is better than alcohol. He's just more extreme than most in his views about what should be done about both of them.

I think he's a little naiive about the actual effects of marijuana for a vast majority of people who use it. However, as long as he's not telling kids that weed will make them go crazy and start killing people or anything like that, I don't have an issue with it.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:35 PM
Oh and I am not claiming anything, marijuana is illegal because its not good for you. You are the one arguing.

This is why there is a pile on. Because you don't know what you're talking about.

You know that THC is is being researched as a viable cure to mild cancers right now?

How could you say that it's not good for you? There are 16 states (And that number WILL grow) in the U.S right now who have approved it for Medical use yet you believe it's was outlawed by the feds because "It's not good for you"?

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:35 PM
Yes I know, you guys will ramble that the government couldn't get their tax on it, and that's why it's illegal.

Pants
10-13-2011, 02:37 PM
Yes I know, you guys will ramble that the government couldn't get their tax on it, and that's why it's illegal.

No, that's not why it's illegal. It's illegal because this country allows legal bribes called "lobbying".

DaFace
10-13-2011, 02:38 PM
Yes I know, you guys will ramble that the government couldn't get their tax on it, and that's why it's illegal.

I am curious (and am sincerely interesting in the discussion - not trying to pile on too much)...

It's likely going to be on the ballot here in Colorado next year to legalize marijuana outright. It probably won't pass, but it only failed by 10-20 percent a decade or so ago, so you never know.

Hypothetically, would that change your views any if you were a teacher here?

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:39 PM
He's not necessarily "wrong" on everything. I agree that you shouldn't teach kids that it's fine and dandy to get high all day long. For one, it is illegal, and a high school kid getting thrown in jail can be a trigger for more behavioral problems. Also, there clearly are some negative long-term health consequences for abusers.

As he's said, he isn't a fan of alcohol either. While I don't personally agree, he's being consistent in his views of alcohol and marijuana, and has even conceded that the former is possibly worse than the latter. In that sense, he agrees with most people in here that marijuana is better than alcohol. He's just more extreme than most in his views about what should be done about both of them.

I think he's a little naiive about the actual effects of marijuana for a vast majority of people who use it. However, as long as he's not telling kids that weed will make them go crazy and start killing people or anything like that, I don't have an issue with it.

I agree with everything you said, except for the last sentence. That's how this discussion got started. He IS stating that he's teaching kids that weed can cause you to make bad choices, such as stealing and acting violently.

Then he posted some meaningless stat about how teens that smoke weed are 5x more liekly to engage in criminal behavior, as if that meant that weed CAUSED the criminal behavior.

He clearly feels this way because he has no idea what weed actually does to a users rationale.

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:39 PM
This is why there is a pile on. Because you don't know what you're talking about.

You know that THC is is being researched as a viable cure to mild cancers right now?

How could you say that it's not good for you? There are 16 states (And that number WILL grow) in the U.S right now who have approved it for Medical use yet you believe it's was outlawed by the feds because "It's not good for you"?

Is smoking good for you? Is alcohol? Please, none of them are. Go ahead and smoke, I'm not going to tell you not too.

Brock
10-13-2011, 02:39 PM
Is smoking good for you? Is alcohol? Please, none of them are. Go ahead and smoke, I'm not going to tell you not too.

Uh, actually, alcohol in moderation is good for you. Science, you know.

BigMeatballDave
10-13-2011, 02:40 PM
Yes I know, you guys will ramble that the government couldn't get their tax on it, and that's why it's illegal.

Ha! I thought you were an educator?

Pants
10-13-2011, 02:40 PM
He's not necessarily "wrong" on everything. I agree that you shouldn't teach kids that it's fine and dandy to get high all day long. For one, it is illegal, and a high school kid getting thrown in jail can be a trigger for more behavioral problems. Also, there clearly are some negative long-term health consequences for abusers.

As he's said, he isn't a fan of alcohol either. While I don't personally agree, he's being consistent in his views of alcohol and marijuana, and has even conceded that the former is possibly worse than the latter. In that sense, he agrees with most people in here that marijuana is better than alcohol. He's just more extreme than most in his views about what should be done about both of them.

I think he's a little naiive about the actual effects of marijuana for a vast majority of people who use it. However, as long as he's not telling kids that weed will make them go crazy and start killing people or anything like that, I don't have an issue with it.

If he admits that he knows nothing about marijuana outside of what his textbook says, he shall be let off the hook. :)

If not, than at least he needs to admit that weed does not cause one to steal or act violent.

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:41 PM
I am curious (and am sincerely interesting in the discussion - not trying to pile on too much)...

It's likely going to be on the ballot here in Colorado next year to legalize marijuana outright. It probably won't pass, but it only failed by 10-20 percent a decade or so ago, so you never know.

Hypothetically, would that change your views any if you were a teacher here?

It would certainly change it from the legal stand point. Would it change my views that its still not bad for you? No, i teach kids not to smoke cigarettes and chew tobacco also.

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:43 PM
If he admits that he knows nothing about marijuana outside of what his textbook says, he shall be let off the hook. :)

If not, than at least he needs to admit that weed does not cause one to steal or act violent.

I have already said I didn't say weed made you violent, I said alcohol made you violent. You keep quoting crap out of context.

Lono
10-13-2011, 02:43 PM
I have to get back to work, before you guys get me fired lol.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:43 PM
Yes I know, you guys will ramble that the government couldn't get their tax on it, and that's why it's illegal.

Ever watch Reefer Madness? The ridiculous propaganda that the government spun against MJ is the reason you believe what you do right now.

That movie is devastating proof of the lengths that the government went through to demonize something that is far less damaging for people than alcohol and ciggs.

Yet you think it was made illegal because "It's bad for you"?

C'mon man....

Brock
10-13-2011, 02:43 PM
I have already said I didn't say weed made you violent, I said alcohol made you violent. You keep quoting crap out of context.

Alcohol doesn't make you violent.

DaFace
10-13-2011, 02:44 PM
If he admits that he knows nothing about marijuana outside of what his textbook says, he shall be let off the hook. :)

If not, than at least he needs to admit that weed does not cause one to steal or act violent.

I think part of the issue is that it's difficult to distinguish between the effects of the drug and the effects of the drug's legal status. Clearly, there is violence surrounding marijuana, but most would agree that the violence is due to the fact that it's being sold in black markets and that legalizing it would make the violence go away.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:45 PM
I have to get back to work, before you guys get me fired lol.

Quick question before you go...

What if the THC was inhaled using a vaporizer? No smoke in your lungs....how much better is it now from a health stand point?

Pants
10-13-2011, 02:45 PM
I have already said I didn't say weed made you violent, I said alcohol made you violent. You keep quoting crap out of context.

Oh OK, so why do you think marijuana should be illegal?

Pants
10-13-2011, 02:48 PM
I think part of the issue is that it's difficult to distinguish between the effects of the drug and the effects of the drug's legal status. Clearly, there is violence surrounding marijuana, but most would agree that the violence is due to the fact that it's being sold in black markets and that legalizing it would make the violence go away.

Dude cited real life examples of how he saw his friends turn into monsters because they smoked marijuana. I apologize if I don't consider this dude to be rational even after your attempts to defend him. We both know this dude is a well-oiled drone.

Detoxing
10-13-2011, 02:56 PM
I think part of the issue is that it's difficult to distinguish between the effects of the drug and the effects of the drug's legal status. Clearly, there is violence surrounding marijuana, but most would agree that the violence is due to the fact that it's being sold in black markets and that legalizing it would make the violence go away.

I have a friend that is proof that the legalization of MJ is working to reduce black market sales.

The guy use to buy and sell by the pound.

He doesn't sell anymore. He claims it's no longer worth it since he lost a lot of customers to the dreaded "License"

Dayze
10-13-2011, 03:12 PM
I heard if you smoke some MJ and kiss an girl on the lips, she can get pregnant.

Inspector
10-13-2011, 03:23 PM
I heard if you smoke some MJ and kiss an girl on the lips, she can get pregnant.

I don't believe that, but you can get VD if you kiss a toilet seat.

That's why I stopped doing that.

crispystl420
10-13-2011, 08:32 PM
[QUOTE=Detoxing;7992047]I agree. I don't like the pile on either. Wish there were others with the same views as Lono.[/QUOTE

Most people aren't that fucking stupid, and if it bothered him he would quit spewing that Government endorsed verbal diarrhea.

teedubya
10-13-2011, 10:07 PM
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/299095_299059743441963_212516735429598_1428936_649467808_n.jpg

sd4chiefs
10-14-2011, 12:53 AM
Alcohol doesn't make you violent.

I googled your post and this came up.

http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-and-you/social-life/alcohol-and-aggression

When we’re drunk we’re more likely to take risks. This can lead to confrontations with others who are acting aggressively. “Alcohol reduces anxiety,” says Professor McMurran. “This is one of the reasons we enjoy drinking, but anxiety actually protects us by telling us to avoid or escape certain situations. When we’re drunk, this warning system doesn’t work and this can put us in dangerous or confrontational situations.”

Buck
10-14-2011, 12:55 AM
I've been in far more fights while not under the influence of alcohol than under the influence. In fact I think I've only ever been in one fight while drunk.

I've definitely never fought anyone on weeeeeeeeeeed, man.

luv
11-02-2011, 10:56 AM
So, for my next argumentative paper, I am taking the position that, if alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be legal as well. Just thought I would ask for a few more links to sources for statistical data or information I can cite and reference in my paper. Doing some googling, but I knew there were some experts on here. ;)

NewChief
11-02-2011, 10:59 AM
So, for my next argumentative paper, I am taking the position that, if alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be legal as well. Just thought I would ask for a few more links to sources for statistical data or information I can cite and reference in my paper. Doing some googling, but I knew there were some experts on here. ;)

Just a suggestion: don't do it. Any teacher who has been teaching for any length of time will be fed up with reading about pot legalization. I actually banned the topic in my classes because I'm so sick of reading about it.

luv
11-02-2011, 11:02 AM
Just a suggestion: don't do it. Any teacher who has been teaching for any length of time will be fed up with reading about pot legalization. I actually banned the topic in my classes because I'm so sick of reading about it.

We discussed possible topics last week, and the teacher was fine with it. This was for my English teacher. My paralegal teacher gave us a list of suggested topics to do a thesis paper on next phase, and it was on the list. I jumped all over it. 12 page paper with power point presentation...hell yes. There's tons of research on both the effects of marijuana as well as the effects and history of alcohol.

LiveSteam
11-02-2011, 11:03 AM
So, for my next argumentative paper, I am taking the position that, if alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be legal as well. Just thought I would ask for a few more links to sources for statistical data or information I can cite and reference in my paper. Doing some googling, but I knew there were some experts on here. ;)

The United States Census of 1850 counted 8,327 hemp “plantations” (minimum 2,000-acre farm) growing cannabis hemp for cloth, canvas and even the cordage used for baling cotton.

The Mexican Connection

In the early 1900s, the western states developed significant tensions regarding the influx of Mexican-Americans. The revolution in Mexico in 1910 spilled over the border, with General Pershing’s army clashing with bandit Pancho Villa. Later in that decade, bad feelings developed between the small farmer and the large farms that used cheaper Mexican labor. Then, the depression came and increased tensions, as jobs and welfare resources became scarce.

One of the “differences” seized upon during this time was the fact that many Mexicans smoked marijuana and had brought the plant with them, and it was through this that California apparently passed the first state marijuana law, outlawing “preparations of hemp, or loco weed.”

However, one of the first state laws outlawing marijuana may have been influenced, not just by Mexicans using the drug, but, oddly enough, because of Mormons using it. Mormons who traveled to Mexico in 1910 came back to Salt Lake City with marijuana. The church’s reaction to this may have contributed to the state’s marijuana law. (Note: the source for this speculation is from articles by Charles Whitebread, Professor of Law at USC Law School in a paper for the Virginia Law Review, and a speech to the California Judges Association (sourced below). Mormon blogger Ardis Parshall disputes this.)

Other states quickly followed suit with marijuana prohibition laws, including Wyoming (1915), Texas (1919), Iowa (1923), Nevada (1923), Oregon (1923), Washington (1923), Arkansas (1923), and Nebraska (1927). These laws tended to be specifically targeted against the Mexican-American population.

When Montana outlawed marijuana in 1927, the Butte Montana Standard reported a legislator’s comment: “When some beet field peon takes a few traces of this stuff… he thinks he has just been elected president of Mexico, so he starts out to execute all his political enemies.” In Texas, a senator said on the floor of the Senate: “All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff [marijuana] is what makes them crazy.”

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/

teedubya
11-02-2011, 11:04 AM
Make sure you do plenty of research on the things that can be created with the Hemp plant. There are literally 50,000 uses for the plant aside from getting high from it...

but the plastics, alchohol, paper, oil and other industries lobby against the renewable source, so it remains largely illegal.

It is a war on Hemp, disguised as a war on marijuana.

LiveSteam
11-02-2011, 11:06 AM
Make sure you do plenty of research on the things that can be created with the Hemp plant. There are literally 50,000 uses for the plant aside from getting high from it...

but the plastics, alchohol, paper, oil and other industries lobby against the renewable source, so it remains largely illegal.

It is a war on Hemp, disguised as a war on marijuana.

The first diesel engines were designed to run off of hemp oil.

When Rudolph Diesel produced his engine in 1896, he'd assumed it would run off of vegetable and seed oils, especially hemp, which is superior to petroleum. Just think about that for a second. A fuel that can be grown by our farmers that is superior to foreign oil. What a lot of history would have been rewritten!
http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/pot/blunderof37.html

NewChief
11-02-2011, 11:07 AM
We discussed possible topics last week, and the teacher was fine with it. This was for my English teacher. My paralegal teacher gave us a list of suggested topics to do a thesis paper on next phase, and it was on the list. I jumped all over it. 12 page paper with power point presentation...hell yes. There's tons of research on both the effects of marijuana as well as the effects and history of alcohol.

It's fine. I just read a lot of those papers (hell, I wrote one when I was in college). It's just funny because most of my high school students think they're being extremely counterculture and cutting edge by writing these papers, but they same arguments have been used forever.

I'd just look for some way to make the topic current and relevant. Look into the medical issue or the state's rights vs. federal.

luv
11-02-2011, 11:16 AM
It's fine. I just read a lot of those papers (hell, I wrote one when I was in college). It's just funny because most of my high school students think they're being extremely counterculture and cutting edge by writing these papers, but they same arguments have been used forever.

I'd just look for some way to make the topic current and relevant. Look into the medical issue or the state's rights vs. federal.

I tried adding the twist of "if alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be as well."

Comparison/contrast can be a good tool for persuasion, which, of course, is the purpose of the paper, in this case. The use and effects of each is one argument, but of course there is the financial and political aspect as well. I've got five pages to do for this particular paper. I'll definitely keep your suggestions in mind.

NewChief
11-02-2011, 11:18 AM
I tried adding the twist of "if alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be as well."

Comparison/contrast can be a good tool for persuasion, which, of course, is the purpose of the paper, in this case. The use and effects of each is one argument, but of course there is the financial and political aspect as well. I've got five pages to do for this particular paper. I'll definitely keep your suggestions in mind.

Ironically, I just had a student (like last hour) say, "I'm going to write about why alcohol should be illegal if marijuana is illegal." (that was his way of trying to backdoor my ban on pot legalization papers). ROFL

-King-
11-02-2011, 11:22 AM
So, for my next argumentative paper, I am taking the position that, if alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be legal as well. Just thought I would ask for a few more links to sources for statistical data or information I can cite and reference in my paper. Doing some googling, but I knew there were some experts on here. ;)

Eh, don't let that be your main point. The ” Since A is less harmful than B and B is legal, so should A” argument is the easiest to tear down. You can use it, but don't let it be your main point.
Posted via Mobile Device

NewChief
11-02-2011, 11:30 AM
Eh, don't let that be your main point. The ” Since A is less harmful than B and B is legal, so should A” argument is the easiest to tear down. You can use it, but don't let it be your main point.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, exactly. A good analogy to draw between the two is to look at prohibition of alcohol (in the 20s) and relate it to prohibition of weed and let that be one possibility.

If you want to be timely and topical, you might look at the marijuana economy's potential to aid us during these economic doldrums. You can also research the economics of alcohol prohibition vs. what happened when it was made legal and taxable.

DJ's left nut
11-02-2011, 11:38 AM
Eh, don't let that be your main point. The ” Since A is less harmful than B and B is legal, so should A” argument is the easiest to tear down. You can use it, but don't let it be your main point.
Posted via Mobile Device

There's also no 'twist' to it - it's been a central thesis of the 'decriminalization' party for years.

Not to mention the fact that the logic its built upon is inherently flawed. If you're going to make that argument, you also have to be prepared to argue in favor of eliminating all speed limits and pretty much any other government intervention apart from an outright ban on murder. Anything that is not inherently more dangerous than alcohol should be legal based on that rationale (and there's very little that's inherently more dangerous than alcohol).

At that point you'll end up finding yourself defending positions you never had any intention of taking and eventually you'll get hammered on one of them.

Luv, you may not have had a full boat trial practice class, but there are scads of lawyers that will tell you that most any argument that allows a jumping off point for a clear counterargument ought to be abandoned altogether. It creates a trial within a trial and can often undermine every other argument you'll make (this is why you'll never see lie detector tests being admissible in court; the whole trial will turn on the results and the science behind them). Here, your argument isn't strong enough to carry the day on its own due to unclosable gaps in the logic. As such, it will only detract from your overall point, especially when it gets turned to force you into a position to defend a point you've never actually made, but now have to defend for the sake of internal consistency.

That is, unless your teacher is a hippy that just reads what he/she wants to read. Then you won't get a legitimately critical analysis of the point and you can turn it into what amounts to a campaign commercial. That's the mark of a mediocre educator, IMO.

The bottom line is that this argument is one that is interesting to have, but absolute dogshit from an academic/trial practice perspective. You never ever want to end up on your side of this kind of logical disconnect.

DJ's left nut
11-02-2011, 11:41 AM
Yeah, exactly. A good analogy to draw between the two is to look at prohibition of alcohol (in the 20s) and relate it to prohibition of weed and let that be one possibility.

If you want to be timely and topical, you might look at the marijuana economy's potential to aid us during these economic doldrums. You can also research the economics of alcohol prohibition vs. what happened when it was made legal and taxable.

That's going to be easily the most interesting paper to write. While it may take more work, it will actually be a credible academic exercise.

I think you could also look at the reasons for its criminilazation in the first place. With elections coming up, etc...; the politicization of 'illegal' Marijuana is an interesting and timely conversation to have.

The 'weed v. alcohol' wasn't a good argument when it was novel; now its just stale and still crappy.

Johnny Vegas
11-02-2011, 11:49 AM
the argument shouldn't be about the effects of the drug. It should be about the effects it leaves on society. Who's fighting and funding the war on drugs? Why BigPharma and ATF are so involved? Why the war on drugs can't work? I suggest watching a few films on it. The Union and American Drug War are full of useful information.

Pawnmower
11-02-2011, 11:50 AM
Everything is harmful in excess. Not too much is all that harmful in moderation. Just don't over use things and you'll be cool.

teedubya
11-02-2011, 11:57 AM
prohibition fuels crime.

luv
11-02-2011, 12:03 PM
Yeah, exactly. A good analogy to draw between the two is to look at prohibition of alcohol (in the 20s) and relate it to prohibition of weed and let that be one possibility.

If you want to be timely and topical, you might look at the marijuana economy's potential to aid us during these economic doldrums. You can also research the economics of alcohol prohibition vs. what happened when it was made legal and taxable.

Actually, in attempting to start my paper and introduce the subject, my first thought went to Prohibition, and its effect on economics and society.

In an overall paper, I will have several points. One being the comparison of the effects of each drug. Also comparing society now concerning marijuana to that of alcohol during Prohibition.

I can definitely see how such an argument could be twisted and go the way your student was looking at it.

luv
11-02-2011, 12:08 PM
There's also no 'twist' to it - it's been a central thesis of the 'decriminalization' party for years.

Not to mention the fact that the logic its built upon is inherently flawed. If you're going to make that argument, you also have to be prepared to argue in favor of eliminating all speed limits and pretty much any other government intervention apart from an outright ban on murder. Anything that is not inherently more dangerous than alcohol should be legal based on that rationale (and there's very little that's inherently more dangerous than alcohol).

At that point you'll end up finding yourself defending positions you never had any intention of taking and eventually you'll get hammered on one of them.

Luv, you may not have had a full boat trial practice class, but there are scads of lawyers that will tell you that most any argument that allows a jumping off point for a clear counterargument ought to be abandoned altogether. It creates a trial within a trial and can often undermine every other argument you'll make (this is why you'll never see lie detector tests being admissible in court; the whole trial will turn on the results and the science behind them). Here, your argument isn't strong enough to carry the day on its own due to unclosable gaps in the logic. As such, it will only detract from your overall point, especially when it gets turned to force you into a position to defend a point you've never actually made, but now have to defend for the sake of internal consistency.

That is, unless your teacher is a hippy that just reads what he/she wants to read. Then you won't get a legitimately critical analysis of the point and you can turn it into what amounts to a campaign commercial. That's the mark of a mediocre educator, IMO.

The bottom line is that this argument is one that is interesting to have, but absolute dogshit from an academic/trial practice perspective. You never ever want to end up on your side of this kind of logical disconnect.

This particular paper is for English Comp. Basically, if I have the intro/body/conclusion format, along with the different thought processes and countering some possible arguments, I think I'll definitely get an A.

In working on my thesis for my paralegal class (which, no, we don't do actual argument classes, since we will not be arguing points of law as paralegals, but simply providing the evidence needed in order for the attorney to do so), I am definitely thinking about changing it and narrowing it down more towards the effects of prohibition (regardless of prohibited substance), and how it affect society, economics, and the Constitution.

chasedude
11-02-2011, 01:10 PM
This particular paper is for English Comp. Basically, if I have the intro/body/conclusion format, along with the different thought processes and countering some possible arguments, I think I'll definitely get an A.

In working on my thesis for my paralegal class (which, no, we don't do actual argument classes, since we will not be arguing points of law as paralegals, but simply providing the evidence needed in order for the attorney to do so), I am definitely thinking about changing it and narrowing it down more towards the effects of prohibition (regardless of prohibited substance), and how it affect society, economics, and the Constitution.

I think this would be an interesting read, good choice in topic. Would you be willing to post it when you finish?

luv
11-02-2011, 02:18 PM
I think this would be an interesting read, good choice in topic. Would you be willing to post it when you finish?

Sure. Granted, that one will be about 14 weeks from now. Maybe I'll post the rough draft to get some "peer review".

DaFace
11-02-2011, 02:20 PM
Tons of resources here:

http://norml.org/

I wouldn't cite NORML in a paper - they're too biased - but their articles often have references to other studies that are reputable.

chasedude
11-02-2011, 02:20 PM
Sure. Granted, that one will be about 14 weeks from now. Maybe I'll post the rough draft to get some "peer review".

I'm sure you'll get plenty of help with the grammar police here.

penguinz
11-02-2011, 02:25 PM
This particular paper is for English Comp. Basically, if I have the intro/body/conclusion format, along with the different thought processes and countering some possible arguments, I think I'll definitely get an A.
I did an English Comp paper in college with a pro marijuana subject. The Professor was very against drugs of any sort. When I turned it in he read the subject line. Wrote an F on it an handed it back. Said I had two days to write a paper on a subject he approved of and I could rescue a C grade at best.

luv
11-02-2011, 02:27 PM
I did an English Comp paper in college with a pro marijuana subject. The Professor was very against drugs of any sort. When I turned it in he read the subject line. Wrote an F on it an handed it back. Said I had two days to write a paper on a subject he approved of and I could rescue a C grade at best.

That will not happen in this case. The topic is open. She said it could be about anything. We talked about possible topics, and I mentioned that one. As long as it's got the elements that she's looking for, then it's fine. She's looking at grammar, format, and thought development; not topic.

chasedude
11-02-2011, 02:28 PM
I did an English Comp paper in college with a pro marijuana subject. The Professor was very against drugs of any sort. When I turned it in he read the subject line. Wrote an F on it an handed it back. Said I had two days to write a paper on a subject he approved of and I could rescue a C grade at best.

A subject he approved of, Bullshit! What happened to free thought in this world. Esp at the college level when people are really discovering themselves.

NewChief
11-02-2011, 02:44 PM
This particular paper is for English Comp. Basically, if I have the intro/body/conclusion format, along with the different thought processes and countering some possible arguments, I think I'll definitely get an A.

In working on my thesis for my paralegal class (which, no, we don't do actual argument classes, since we will not be arguing points of law as paralegals, but simply providing the evidence needed in order for the attorney to do so), I am definitely thinking about changing it and narrowing it down more towards the effects of prohibition (regardless of prohibited substance), and how it affect society, economics, and the Constitution.

You might be interested in watching the recent Ken Burns documentary on prohibition. Many interesting parallels exist.

chasedude
11-02-2011, 03:45 PM
You might be interested in watching the recent Ken Burns documentary on prohibition. Many interesting parallels exist.

Yes very awesome doc, I sure learned quite a bit of info from it.

Chief Pagan
11-02-2011, 04:17 PM
the argument shouldn't be about the effects of the drug. It should be about the effects it leaves on society. Who's fighting and funding the war on drugs? Why BigPharma and ATF are so involved? Why the war on drugs can't work? I suggest watching a few films on it. The Union and American Drug War are full of useful information.

Reefer Madness: The Movie Musical (2005)

luv
11-02-2011, 04:22 PM
You might be interested in watching the recent Ken Burns documentary on prohibition. Many interesting parallels exist.

I'll definitely look it up. Thanks!

Otter
11-02-2011, 05:25 PM
A study on how painkiller cause more deaths than cocaine and heroin per year combined. Use it as the argument how THC is a much safer and effective painkiller.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/11/painkiller-epidemic-deepens-in-us.html

Psyko Tek
11-02-2011, 06:11 PM
I have been lucky lately and have not drunk in 2 months, Cira.

I smoke weed (more) now for a trade off. I have noticed that weed should be legal if alcohol is. I cant complain o0f hangovers or such. I am stupid high as well but I remember it at least..........

Matt fucked Luck!

this should not be a battle
why can't we get along
wed VS alcohol is not the problem
the problem is getting the right mix of weed and alcohol