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Smed1065
10-09-2011, 03:43 PM
I have been lucky lately and have not drunk in 2 months, Cira.

I smoke weed (more) now for a trade off. I have noticed that weed should be legal if alcohol is. I cant complain o0f hangovers or such. I am stupid high as well but I remember it at least..........

Matt fucked Luck!

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 03:45 PM
Weed wins every time.

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 03:46 PM
daba daba doo

-King-
10-09-2011, 03:46 PM
Weed has always been better than Alcohol. Unless taco bell is closed and the closest store is out of cheetos, there aren't as many deaths as alcohol.

Extra Point
10-09-2011, 03:48 PM
Weed's reset button is better.

PRIEST
10-09-2011, 03:48 PM
Weed wins every time.

This

Bill Brasky
10-09-2011, 03:50 PM
Weed makes me anti social and very stupid, so I prefer alcohol. I feel much more in control without weed.

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 03:51 PM
BHO will knock your dick in the dirt

http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/840/gramcongo_001.jpg

chasedude
10-09-2011, 03:51 PM
I know a Diabetic that can't drink because it really screws up his insulin levels. So he smokes weed instead with no toxic side affects.

The continued criminalization of the plant still amazes me today.

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 03:52 PM
Weed makes me anti social and very stupid, so I prefer alcohol. I feel much more in control without weed.I'd imagine most people feel more in control without weed or alcohol. Duh.

Fruit Ninja
10-09-2011, 03:54 PM
Every doctor i have etver been to has asked me if i have a substance abuse problem. It runs in the family. Then they tell me, i mean anythign other then Marijuana i dont care about, its not bad for you. lol

Rausch
10-09-2011, 03:55 PM
Alcohol kills the organs - pot kills the brain...

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 03:58 PM
Alcohol kills the organs - pot heals the brain...

FYP

-King-
10-09-2011, 03:59 PM
Alcohol kills the organs - pot kills the brain...

No it doesn't.

DRU
10-09-2011, 04:01 PM
Weed vs. pretty much anything out there and weed will win every time.

Smoke it or vape it and you can either enjoy a nice little buzz or get high as can be and still not be out of your mind at all.

If you're sick it'll help with the nausea and help you eat. If you're tired and can't sleep it can help you there, too.

Get nervous and anxious in public places or around a lot of people in general? It can help you chill out just like anti-anxiety pills (unless you happen to be somebody that gets paranoid.)

Got pain? Cook with it and enjoy a nice meal that will give you the same effect as any pain killer will without the weird side effects of pharmaceuticals.

It grows right out of the ground.

I could go on and on, but yes, I find it absolutely fascinating that Mary Jane gets the label it does.

The problem is, make it legal and now suddenly people are using it to heal all of the ailments I mentioned (and many more) and they aren't pumping themselves full of pharmaceuticals that numb your mind and rob you of your emotion.

Of course, that would cause a massive drop in sales and profits for all those companies raking it in on drugging people with un-natural drugs, and of course, the majority of those companies have big government ties as well.

On top of that, you've got all of the non-violent criminals in jail because of weed. All of those people in those prisons bring a lot of money to the areas those prisons are in, some of which can't sustain without it. Remove all of the prisoners from those prisons because you legalize what they did wrong, and now you have a huge tank in the amount of money those places are getting, people lose their jobs, blah blah blah.

That rat bastard Harry Anslinger had a large part in making it all what it is today.

Just my little rant. Sorry.

Slainte
10-09-2011, 04:01 PM
Well, they're BOTH great!!! As anyone can attest from their users, obviously...

-King-
10-09-2011, 04:01 PM
By the way...have you ever had high sex? If that doesn't tip the scales in favor of weed, nothing will.

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 04:03 PM
Well, they're BOTH great!!! As anyone can attest from their users, obviously...Compared to weed, alcohol sucks.

I dont smoke anymore because they random test where I work. I rarely drink.

JohnnyHammersticks
10-09-2011, 04:04 PM
(Might as well make my virgin post on something important) Someday--when cannabinoid-therapy is commonly accepted as a cure for cancer--people are going to look back and be freaking AMAZED that it was once illegal and that people were actually thrown in jail for using it. The hemp plant is a miracle plant. Why are the powers-that-be so ignorant/corrupt?

Andrew Luck looks so good in red though. . .

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 04:05 PM
By the way...have you ever had high sex? If that doesn't tip the scales in favor of weed, nothing will.I cant climax while high. After 45 min of fucking, I just give up LOL

HoneyBadger
10-09-2011, 04:05 PM
I think it has to do about doing it socially... You can have one drink and show no side effects, where as with weed you're more than likely to display some change in physiology.

lcarus
10-09-2011, 04:07 PM
Weed makes me anti social and very stupid, so I prefer alcohol. I feel much more in control without weed.

I see a lot more people that act ten times stupider while drunk, and also out of control. Hell, drunk=out of control. That's why there's so many wrecks and other random out of control events.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 04:12 PM
Alcohol kills the organs - pot kills the brain...

Actually I thought that for a long time but in mt research I have found that alcohol kills grey matter.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 04:13 PM
Can a mod do me a favor and add a poll. I know, I know.

JohnnyHammersticks
10-09-2011, 04:17 PM
Alcohol kills the organs - pot kills the brain...

Actually, it's looking more and more like the opposite is true. I can't post links because I'm new, but if you Google "cannabinoids + neuroprotective", you'll actually find mountains of research performed in other countries (because it's Schedule 1 in the US, meaning no research can be done on it here) showing that--instead of burning brain cells--it actually protects neurodegeneration. Cannabis is now being used successfully overseas to combat Alzheimer's Disease. Again, I can't post links, but this snippet from The Journal of Neuroscience sums it up pretty well.

"Our results indicate that cannabinoid receptors are important in the pathology of AD (Alzheimer's Disease) and that cannabinoids succeed in preventing the neurodegenerative process occurring in the disease."

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 04:18 PM
Research has begun to accumulate over the past few years showing that cannabinoids are neuroprotective against brain injury resulting from toxins, hypoxia, and head trauma. Cannabinoids are, loosely, chemicals that are similar in structure to the psychoactive components in cannabis and/or chemicals that activate the cannabinoid receptor system in the body. Researchers have found protective effects not only from the plant-derived cannabinoids such as THC, but also from endogenous cannabinoids (those occurring naturally in the body, such as anandamide) and some synthetic pharmaceutical cannabinoids.

The research with the cannabis-source cannabinoids, conducted in mice, rats, and in vitro, has shown remarkable effectiveness in reducing brain damage from injected toxins, hypoxia, and head trauma.1 Other research has found that anandamide levels in the brains of rats naturally rise after brain injury or death and the cannabinoid system may play a primary role in limiting brain damage.2

Because psychoactivity is considered an unwanted side effect, much of the current research is being done with synthetic cannabinoid system agonists. One synthetic cannabinoid, Dexanabinol (HU-211), is already in phase 3 trials (medium scale, involving humans) headed towards governmental approval as a neuroprotective pharmaceutical. Research conducted in Israel that gave 67 patients with serious head trauma either Dexanabinol or placebo confirms similar research in rats showing reduced damage and faster recovery among those receiving the cannabinoids.3 Although other promising head trauma treatments have failed in the demanding and complex phase 3 research trials, many interested in the field of neuroinjury are excited about the findings to date.

The mechanisms by which the cannabinoids reduce damage from both toxic and traumatic injury to the brain are not yet fully understood. Although some researchers have suggested that the cannabinoids may offer protection through a strong antioxidant effect, this is now considered unlikely to account for much of the protection, since cannabinoid-receptor antagonists block the beneficial effects and the doses of the cannabinoids given are very low.

Perhaps the current best guess for how these chemicals provide their protective effects is that their general dampening of neural activity reduces excitotoxicity (damage caused by overly excited neurons). One of the specific ways this happens is through the inhibition of the glutamate system in the brain. The glutamatergic neurons are part of the excitatory system in the brain; inhibiting glutamate reduces the activity of other neurons. At least in some parts of the brain, activation of the CB1 cannabinoid receptor (a specific type of cannabinoid receptor) has been shown to block pre-synaptic release of glutamate. CB1 receptor activation is also known to inhibit certain calcium channels, directly reducing the production of nitric oxide and other potentially damaging reactive oxygen species.1,4

Hog Farmer
10-09-2011, 04:19 PM
Sorry , all the Mods are either stoned or drunk !

ClevelandBronco
10-09-2011, 04:22 PM
I have been lucky lately and have not drunk in 2 months, Cira.

I smoke weed (more) now for a trade off. I have noticed that weed should be legal if alcohol is. I cant complain o0f hangovers or such. I am stupid high as well but I remember it at least..........

Matt ****ed Luck!

Either substance is fine in moderation and dangerous when abused. If you're using weed to keep from getting drunk, you would be prudent to consider whether you might have a problem that could eventually lead to addiction.

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 04:28 PM
well pot isn't habit forming. Pot is usually around when you're doing activities be it golf, folf, fishing, concerts, etc. What I'm getting at is its used around social activities and pot is associated with a fun event. So the average person would have a hard time getting used to not smoking pot during an event they used to frequently use while doing so could pass as a mental addiction like shopping.

go bowe
10-09-2011, 04:32 PM
Either substance is fine in moderation and dangerous when abused. If you're using weed to keep from getting drunk, you would be prudent to consider whether you might have a problem that could eventually lead to addiction.

pffft...

i'm not addicted, i stop every night...

RubberSponge
10-09-2011, 04:38 PM
BHO will knock your dick in the dirt

http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/840/gramcongo_001.jpg

Not so sure that is BHO. It may be a very well made QWISO.

Cannabis is the only thing that helps me with my drug resistant PTSD. Every prescription medication has made me raging and extremely aggressive.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 04:40 PM
Sorry , all the Mods are either stoned or drunk !

Hey we cant all be like you.

:D

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 04:40 PM
Either substance is fine in moderation and dangerous when abused. If you're using weed to keep from getting drunk, you would be prudent to consider whether you might have a problem that could eventually lead to addiction.MJ addiction? LMAO

luv
10-09-2011, 04:40 PM
How many times have we had this debate? Personally, I'm on the alcohol side, but that's just because I'm not a smoker....and the whole legality thing. Not saying that I don't think it shouldn't be legalized, just that it's the reason why I've never tried it more. Well, and the fact that I don't think I've ever inhaled anything without my eyes watering and coughing up a lung. If It wasn't for memory loss, I'd probably drink more. I'm much more fun when I do.

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 04:41 PM
no man its butane honey oil. look it up. its got the highest potency in hash form. people call it honey, wax, and buddah. For n00bs... Its extracted with butane and the butane evaporates in the end of the extraction and you have a consistency of honey or rock hard candy in the amber color form.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 04:42 PM
Either substance is fine in moderation and dangerous when abused. If you're using weed to keep from getting drunk, you would be prudent to consider whether you might have a problem that could eventually lead to addiction.

I am slow but my favorite quote is "moderation". Hey all things can be bad if you treat them that way.

OMG I acted like bronco fan mattered.

:banghead:

-King-
10-09-2011, 04:42 PM
I've only been drunk once in my life.


That was quite enough. Waking up and not remembering what you did that night is not the best feeling in the world.

I'll take weed all day every day.

RubberSponge
10-09-2011, 04:43 PM
I know a Diabetic that can't drink because it really screws up his insulin levels. So he smokes weed instead with no toxic side affects.

The continued criminalization of the plant still amazes me today.

And it is getting worse. The IRS is now going after legal(state laws)compassion centers in California. The Justice Dept has told dispensaries they have 45 days to shut down or they will have everything taken and charged with a federal crime.

In Colorado the Federal Govt. is forcing banks to refuse business from legal cannabis businesses.

And that is the just in the past week.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 04:44 PM
Not so sure that is BHO. It may be a very well made QWISO.

Cannabis is the only thing that helps me with my drug resistant PTSD. Every prescription medication has made me raging and extremely aggressive.

I feel ya. I am tired of the pill for anything idea. Drugs are bad unless we get a tax. WTF?

I mean pharmaceutical companies. The tobacco of this generation.

Rausch
10-09-2011, 04:44 PM
Every prescription medication has made me raging and extremely aggressive.

I'd say that's ineffective treatment.

I mean, and no offense, being raging mad is a symptom of PTSD. If you're trying to treat it medically and you still feel that way it should tell you something.

That script and/or approach isn't working.

Drugs can suppress the symptoms of PTSD but it takes long and consistent treatment to manage it. More often than not it takes both.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 04:45 PM
I've only been drunk once in my life.


That was quite enough. Waking up and not remembering what you did that night is not the best feeling in the world.

I'll take weed all day every day.

I would too but weed in my day was worse than cocaine...... It was the 80"s.

Fuck Scarface. LOL.

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 04:47 PM
yea I been taking tizanadine and tramadol for my back. I hate it. First time I actually have to take pain pills every day for my pain. I'm a stubborn guy and hate going to the doctor so when I do have to I am really hurtin. I've taken steroids too but didn't seem to help at all. I hate pills because I can't drink which I still enjoy doing when I go out for dinner.

RubberSponge
10-09-2011, 04:48 PM
no man its butane honey oil. look it up. its got the highest potency in hash form. people call it honey, wax, and buddah. For n00bs... Its extracted with butane and the butane evaporates in the end of the extraction and you have a consistency of honey or rock hard candy in the amber color form.

I've seen and used QWISO that looks exactly like that. QWISO is hash oil as well.

BillSelfsTrophycase
10-09-2011, 04:49 PM
http://criticalmas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/indiana-jones-idol-swipe.jpg

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 04:49 PM
How many times have we had this debate? Personally, I'm on the alcohol side, but that's just because I'm not a smoker....and the whole legality thing. Not saying that I don't think it shouldn't be legalized, just that it's the reason why I've never tried it more. Well, and the fact that I don't think I've ever inhaled anything without my eyes watering and coughing up a lung. If It wasn't for memory loss, I'd probably drink more. I'm much more fun when I do.Its personal opinion, but MJ is by far and away better than alcohol.

People dont get high and belligerent. People dont get high and are hungover the next day. Getting sloppy drunk makes you do stupid and dangerous things. MJ doesnt destroy your liver.

philfree
10-09-2011, 04:51 PM
http://youtu.be/e9mUxzzQ8NI

RubberSponge
10-09-2011, 04:53 PM
I'd say that's ineffective treatment.

I mean, and no offense, being raging mad is a symptom of PTSD. If you're trying to treat it medically and you still feel that way it should tell you something.

That script and/or approach isn't working.

Drugs can suppress the symptoms of PTSD but it takes long and consistent treatment to manage it. More often than not it takes both.

I'd say pharmaceuticals are ineffective for me.

There are many symptoms of PTSD, agressive behavior is one of them, as well as nightmares, depression etc.. You don't have to show each one of them.

Why should I have to trade one for the other if I have found something(cannabis) that works better than any thing else because you think I should take a pill instead?

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 04:54 PM
I've seen and used QWISO that looks exactly like that. QWISO is hash oil as well.

sorry I read your post too fast. I just googled bho real quick and it was in what was found. I've never seen QWISO look like BHO. QWISO I've seen is always black.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 04:54 PM
Where is RED when you need a metro-sexual?

Stirring shit is too easy.

KcMizzou
10-09-2011, 04:54 PM
I drink way more than I should, and I realize it. If weed were legal, I'd do that instead. It just relaxes me. I don't smoke to get crazy stoned. It just makes me really mellow, I end up watching a movie or something, going to bed early, and wake up feeling great.

A little goes a long way for me. Unlike alcohol.

ClevelandBronco
10-09-2011, 04:55 PM
MJ addiction? LMAO

For a large majority of people, no. Marijuana is not a risk for addiction. For someone who is already on the road to addiction, marijuana will continue to train the brain that it is not responsible for it's own chemical corrections.

I've found, though, that arguing with potheads who know very little about how addiction actually works in the minority who are at risk for addiction is a waste of everyone's time.

KcMizzou
10-09-2011, 04:56 PM
I'd probably still smoke, if it weren't for the fact that I have teenage boys... one of which I know has smoked. I just can't have it around... and can't smoke when they aren't around, because that makes me a hypocrite.

RubberSponge
10-09-2011, 04:56 PM
sorry I read your post too fast. I just googled bho real quick and it was in what was found. I've never seen QWISO look like BHO. QWISO I've seen is always black.

Most of it I have seen is black as well. But that golden amber color is possible. Most BHO I have seen is not clear like amber

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 05:00 PM
Most of it I have seen is black as well. But that golden amber color is possible. Most BHO I have seen is not clear like amber

I assume you get that buddah where its crumbly like blue cheese and not stringy? I usually always see the clear amber look in BHO. I plead the 5th.

sd4chiefs
10-09-2011, 05:12 PM
Best bang for the buck.

$55 for one 8x 4oz container at your local California dispensary.

Mix 1/2 oz of hash butter into a 9 x 13 batch of brownies = $7.50

Cut up into 50 pieces = 15 cents for 1 brownie

Eat 1 brownie, wait one hour and you are :bong: for 2 hours.

Warning! Do not eat more than 1 or you will get to high. Only do this at home because it will knock you on your butt.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 05:12 PM
I drink way more than I should, and I realize it. If weed were legal, I'd do that instead. It just relaxes me. I don't smoke to get crazy stoned. It just makes me really mellow, I end up watching a movie or something, going to bed early, and wake up feeling great.

A little goes a long way for me. Unlike alcohol.

But you have no choice, yet.

Guess there lies my anger.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 05:17 PM
I know I am an addict but quit all that are legal.

BillSelfsTrophycase
10-09-2011, 05:18 PM
Weed is good, but beer are go good with pizza


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O-jOEAufDQ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 05:19 PM
I will say one good thing about alcohol. It makes me wanna dance, sing, and talk.

Pablo
10-09-2011, 05:19 PM
I've only been drunk once in my life.


That was quite enough. Waking up and not remembering what you did that night is not the best feeling in the world.

I'll take weed all day every day.Small sample size renders your argument invalid.

Rausch
10-09-2011, 05:21 PM
I'd probably still smoke, if it weren't for the fact that I have teenage boys... one of which I know has smoked.

Whut!?!?!

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 05:21 PM
Weed is good, but beer are go good with pizza


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O-jOEAufDQ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Never been high? Pizza is #1 in college for a reason.

KcMizzou
10-09-2011, 05:22 PM
Whut!?!?!Yeah. Can't have it around. He'll be 15 in December.

Chocolate Hog
10-09-2011, 05:22 PM
Jankem >

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 05:22 PM
Whut!?!?!

Different view due to not being #1.,

Hello.

luv
10-09-2011, 05:23 PM
I'd probably still smoke, if it weren't for the fact that I have teenage boys... one of which I know has smoked. I just can't have it around... and can't smoke when they aren't around, because that makes me a hypocrite.

:clap:

Johnny Vegas
10-09-2011, 05:24 PM
Yeah. Can't have it around. He'll be 15 in December.

ha! those young scamps do the damndest things man! just scare him with a random drug screen. that'll do the trick.

Rausch
10-09-2011, 05:25 PM
Yeah. Can't have it around. He'll be 15 in December.

SRSLY1?!

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/Entourage/images/jeremy-piven-2.jpg

KcMizzou
10-09-2011, 05:26 PM
ha! those young scamps do the damndest things man! just scare him with a random drug screen. that'll do the trick.Oh, he's getting them...

Otter
10-09-2011, 05:35 PM
Alcohol kills the organs - pot kills the brain...

What kills spirit and zest for life?

BillSelfsTrophycase
10-09-2011, 05:43 PM
What kills spirit and zest for life?


A Wife :)

chasedude
10-09-2011, 05:45 PM
A Wife :)

LMAO

chasedude
10-09-2011, 05:46 PM
In honor of this thread, I'm sparking up a bowl :D

Rausch
10-09-2011, 05:46 PM
What kills spirit and zest for life?

Kids...

KcMizzou
10-09-2011, 05:46 PM
A Wife :)LMAO

rep.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 05:47 PM
What kills spirit and zest for life?

Good post, been there for 4 years. Just glad to leave it.

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 05:48 PM
Kids...:spock: My son IS my life. He gives my life purpose.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 05:49 PM
In honor of this thread, I'm sparking up a bowl :D

Hope it is weed instead of a cig.

I know I am a character but I do ask and need support from CP to quit smoking.

TY

luv
10-09-2011, 05:49 PM
A Wife :)

There's a cure for that.

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 05:50 PM
:spock: My son IS my life. He gives my life purpose.

That is great and all but might want more options is all.

BillSelfsTrophycase
10-09-2011, 05:50 PM
There's a cure for that.

I'm listening

Smed1065
10-09-2011, 05:52 PM
Things change and that is the 1 thing I never learned while growing up.

Shit, it was my way or the highway.

What is crazy is the ways I should be crazy versus reality.

RubberSponge
10-09-2011, 05:55 PM
I'd probably still smoke, if it weren't for the fact that I have teenage boys... one of which I know has smoked. I just can't have it around... and can't smoke when they aren't around, because that makes me a hypocrite.

It makes you a hypocrite if you smoke when they aren't there? I assume you drink. Does it make you a hypocrite if you drink when they aren't there as well?

Maybe I'm not understanding the logic behind your rationalization. Is it a legal vs illegal thing? Or is it that they just shouldn't be using intoxicating substances at their age?

IMO it's completely understandable that an adult can partake in substances that a child can not. That doesn't make you a hypocrite if you do partake in them, whether the child has the ability to understand that or not.

luv
10-09-2011, 06:07 PM
It makes you a hypocrite if you smoke when they aren't there? I assume you drink. Does it make you a hypocrite if you drink when they aren't there as well?

Maybe I'm not understanding the logic behind your rationalization. Is it a legal vs illegal thing? Or is it that they just shouldn't be using intoxicating substances at their age?

IMO it's completely understandable that an adult can partake in substances that a child can not. That doesn't make you a hypocrite if you do partake in them, whether the child has the ability to understand that or not.

I think any reasonable person would understand that it's the legality of it.

luv
10-09-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm listening

Two actually. Divorce her or kill her.

Rausch
10-09-2011, 06:10 PM
:spock: My son IS my life. He gives my life purpose.

$#it, I should talk to that kid...

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 06:22 PM
$#it, I should talk to that kid...No use. Hes a great kid. :D

Extra Point
10-09-2011, 06:43 PM
What kills spirit and zest for life?

One's brain that is used to thinking about the past and lost choices, instead of looking to the future.

Rausch
10-09-2011, 06:44 PM
One's brain that is used to thinking about the past and lost choices, instead of looking to the future.

Point lost fragments sentence might have want had why?

Deberg_1990
10-09-2011, 06:47 PM
How many people drive high and kill people each year as opposed to how many people drive drunk and kill people?

Rausch
10-09-2011, 06:49 PM
How many people drive high and kill people each year as opposed to how many people drive drunk and kill people?

I'm guessing the people who drive drunk can still find employment...

BWillie
10-09-2011, 07:03 PM
I dont like weed one bit. It is not fun at all and it makes me not want to do anything and just sit around. I have much better time on alcohol, but weed really seems to have much less danger. No idea why it is illegal

DaFace
10-09-2011, 07:10 PM
MJ addiction? LMAO

It's not addictive in any way that resembles nicotine addition or similar, but there are certainly addictive qualities for some. I'm too lazy to look up the article, but I remember reading an article a while back that mentioned that people start relying on it to reduce stress, for example, so they have a tougher time dealing with stress without it in the future.

That said, people get addicted to coffee, too.

(And for the record, I'm firmly in the "legalize it" camp.)

Extra Point
10-09-2011, 07:17 PM
It's not addictive in any way that resembles nicotine addition or similar, but there are certainly addictive qualities for some. I'm too lazy to look up the article, but I remember reading an article a while back that mentioned that people start relying on it to reduce stress, for example, so they have a tougher time dealing with stress without it in the future.

That said, people get addicted to coffee, too.

(And for the record, I'm firmly in the "legalize it" camp.)

I took 4 good hits, then read your post, and I thank you for it.

DaFace
10-09-2011, 07:20 PM
I took 4 good hits, then read your post, and I thank you for it.

http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/w/weird_face-12771.jpg

BillSelfsTrophycase
10-09-2011, 07:26 PM
Two actually. Divorce her or kill her.


I don't hate her that much

Option 3...Abducted by Johnny Depp alien clones never to be seen again


She's happy...I'm happy


Everybody wins

Extra Point
10-09-2011, 07:30 PM
http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/w/weird_face-12771.jpg

Woke up in the middle of last nite, saw "Aliens" on AMC, and don't really know how to respond to that. So much for clairvoyance.

Ugly Duck
10-09-2011, 07:33 PM
I much prefer weed over alcohol, but can't smoke cuz of the drug-testing thingie. A cryin' shame....

Hydrae
10-09-2011, 07:34 PM
Haven't read the entire thread but I have been not smoking for the last month. The wife has graduated with her AA and is looking for work. As a result, we do not keep weed in the house. I have smoked for over 30 years with few stops during that time. I have smoked basically every day for the last 10+ years with no long-term breaks until now. I often wondered what effects it might be having on my cognative abilities. Well, I have seen no difference in those abilities recently. If anything, I would have to say it is almost the other way around. I have been going to University of Phoenix for the last year and a half and have not finished a class with less than 90%, I am starting to worry about whether I am going to be able to repeat it in my current class. Not that I think smoking pot makes me smarter but I can tell you it has not made me more stupid, even after many years of partaking.

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 07:44 PM
It's not addictive in any way that resembles nicotine addition or similar, but there are certainly addictive qualities for some. I'm too lazy to look up the article, but I remember reading an article a while back that mentioned that people start relying on it to reduce stress, for example, so they have a tougher time dealing with stress without it in the future.

That said, people get addicted to coffee, too.

(And for the record, I'm firmly in the "legalize it" camp.)I get that, but MJ has no addictive properties like nicotine and caffeine, etc.

I smoked for most of my 20s. I have never once had a craving for MJ. Its psychological, not chemical.

I smoked cigarettes for 9 yrs. 88-96. I still have a slight crave when I smell the smoke.

I think people who are genetically predisposed to addiction actually believe they have an addiction to it.

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 07:47 PM
I dont like weed one bit. It is not fun at all and it makes me not want to do anything and just sit around. I have much better time on alcohol, but weed really seems to have much less danger. No idea why it is illegalI literally HATE the feeling of being drunk. Hate it.

MJ is a much better euphoria. Fuck I hate random testing...

Marcellus
10-09-2011, 07:52 PM
I don't think MJ should be illegal but it is more of a gateway drug than alcohol.

Many people drink and drink to excess but won't touch illegal drugs.

Many people who smoke move on to other things. It's kind of like crossing a line that once you do, going further is easier.

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 07:59 PM
I don't think MJ should be illegal but it is more of a gateway drug than alcohol.

Many people drink and drink to excess but won't touch illegal drugs.

Many people who smoke move on to other things. It's kind of like crossing a line that once you do, going further is easier.
Not true. Never did anything worse than MJ, other than Alcohol.

I've known several smokers who have never touched Coke,
meth, Heroin, etc. The 'gateway' thing is complete BS.

Marcellus
10-09-2011, 08:20 PM
Not true. Never did anything worse than MJ, other than Alcohol.

I've known several smokers who have never touched Coke,
meth, Heroin, etc. The 'gateway' thing is complete BS.

I could be wrong but never knew of user of hard drugs who didn't smoke weed.
Of course they all drank too so maybe I am off base.

NewChief
10-09-2011, 08:21 PM
I don't think MJ should be illegal but it is more of a gateway drug than alcohol.

Many people drink and drink to excess but won't touch illegal drugs.

Many people who smoke move on to other things. It's kind of like crossing a line that once you do, going further is easier.

It is a gateway drug, but it's a gateway drug because it's criminalized. A person has to break societal norms/laws to take it, and this exposes the person to a subculture that pushes or disregards those norms. As such, the user's own norms begin to shift as they increase their exposure to the "deviant" subculture.

GordonGekko
10-09-2011, 08:22 PM
I don't know how many people kill each other high on weed each year, I'm sure there are a few... but people die all the time smashed out on alcohol and drive somewhere, killing themselves and/or someone else (multiple someone elses). F****** shame.

Rausch
10-09-2011, 08:23 PM
How many people drive high and kill people each year as opposed to how many people drive drunk and kill people?

How many people get high and never, EVER, again qualify for a college loan or a teaching certificate?

How many drunks still manage to get both, or for that matter, become president?...

GordonGekko
10-09-2011, 08:24 PM
My only gripe with weed being legal, is there have to be limitations. Do you want your airline pilot high on weed? Or your surgeon? There has to be limitations on its use, just like alcohol, as in if you are in certain professions you cannot use the drug, ever.

Marcellus
10-09-2011, 08:32 PM
It is a gateway drug, but it's a gateway drug because it's criminalized. A person has to break societal norms/laws to take it, and this exposes the person to a subculture that pushes or disregards those norms. As such, the user's own norms begin to shift as they increase their exposure to the "deviant" subculture.

I can see that. Crossing a line and then crossing another. If it were legal there isn't a line to cross.

-King-
10-09-2011, 08:35 PM
My only gripe with weed being legal, is there have to be limitations. Do you want your airline pilot high on weed? Or your surgeon? There has to be limitations on its use, just like alcohol, as in if you are in certain professions you cannot use the drug, ever.

I'm pretty sure surgeons and pilots do drink when they're off the job.

Marcellus
10-09-2011, 08:39 PM
I'm pretty sure surgeons and pilots do drink when they're off the job.

It becomes a testing issue. I realize you can measure THC levels but I don't think it's as accurate as BAC.

You know when someone drank recently, MJ I dont know if they have a legal limit" standard.

Maybe that is just a formality.

crispystl420
10-09-2011, 08:44 PM
Weed can be very psychologically addictive. I smoked weed pretty much non-stop from the age of 16 to 28. At 28 I moved out of state and couldn't get a hookup after I eventually ran out. The first two months were brutal but it was way more about a habit and 12 year old lifestyle than any physical addiction. That being said I have found hookups now but I only smoke like one toke if it's a long weekend because I don't want to jeopardize my job. I still miss it badly and now I drink much more. Its BS because If I could smoke legally I would probably all but quit drinking.

Extra Point
10-09-2011, 08:45 PM
My only gripe with weed being legal, is there have to be limitations. Do you want your airline pilot high on weed? Or your surgeon? There has to be limitations on its use, just like alcohol, as in if you are in certain professions you cannot use the drug, ever.

Mandatory 12 hrs sleep after the last toke, for the permutation of 9 hrs. sleeping, 1/2 hrs. eating, 1 hour auxiliary, 2/3 hr. transit time, and remainder, negate the argument.

G'night.

BigMeatballDave
10-09-2011, 08:52 PM
How many people get high and never, EVER, again qualify for a college loan or a teaching certificate?

How many drunks still manage to get both, or for that matter, become president?...This is extremely ignorant. To answer your stupid questions, its because alcohol isnt an illegal drug.

The public, in general, is misinformed.

crispystl420
10-09-2011, 08:55 PM
I never proclaimed my opinion even though it's pretty obvious from my post. I am a huge supporter of weed.

Marcellus
10-09-2011, 08:56 PM
I never proclaimed my opinion even though it's pretty obvious from my post. I am a huge supporter of weed.

Or maybe your user name?

kcfanXIII
10-09-2011, 09:24 PM
I'd say pharmaceuticals are ineffective for me.

There are many symptoms of PTSD, agressive behavior is one of them, as well as nightmares, depression etc.. You don't have to show each one of them.

Why should I have to trade one for the other if I have found something(cannabis) that works better than any thing else because you think I should take a pill instead?

i wouldn't. i would explain to my doctor, he could take his pills, and use them as a suppository because cannabis works for you.

JohnnyHammersticks
10-09-2011, 09:24 PM
. . . I still miss it badly and now I drink much more. Its BS because If I could smoke legally I would probably all but quit drinking.

This is a perfect example of why the liquor industry spends so much money funding the anti-legalization campaign. Legal weed would cut profits. Same with the prison industry and big pharmaceutical companies. This is why common sense doesn't prevail. Common sense is bad for business.

RubberSponge
10-10-2011, 12:15 AM
I think any reasonable person would understand that it's the legality of it.

I didn't know what his reasoning was. He never really said in the post. So, being a reasonable person and rather not be disrespectful and assume what he meant I had to ask. But I guess that is being unreasonable. :rolleyes:

Cannabis in many states is a quasi legal issue. In Denver it is legal for any adults to possess up to one ounce, under city law. But an officer could charge you under state law if you don't have a medical card. It's all up to the officer's discretion.

Smed1065
10-10-2011, 12:17 AM
I think any reasonable person would understand that it's the legality of it.

Because they said so? WTF.

Plough along and get us a beer bitch, Is that ok?

Iconic
10-10-2011, 12:23 AM
Alcohol is more dangerous then weed. So I'd take Weed. I do neither so I'm being completely unbiased.

BigMeatballDave
10-10-2011, 12:29 AM
I think any reasonable person would understand that it's the legality of it.I never cared about it being illegal. Still dont. The only reason I dont smoke now is my employer does random testing.

Bump
10-10-2011, 12:59 AM
weed is so much better in every single way than alcohol. I am drunk and I have a lot of prime time bud too. But weed is a fucking cure all and big pharma and alcohol don't want it around, so it will remain illegal for a while.

BigMeatballDave
10-10-2011, 01:18 AM
weed is so much better in every single way than alcohol. I am drunk and I have a lot of prime time bud too. But weed is a fucking cure all and big pharma and alcohol don't want it around, so it will remain illegal for a while.Yep. This is why. There is too much money out there that can protect alcohol and pharms.

Bump
10-10-2011, 01:34 AM
Yep. This is why. There is too much money out there that can protect alcohol and pharms.

it's fucking sick too, weed is actually good for you and alcohol kills in a lot of ways. Sickening, who;s looking out for the people? nobody, it's all about big business.

KurtCobain
10-10-2011, 01:45 AM
it's fucking sick too, weed is actually good for you and alcohol kills in a lot of ways. Sickening, who;s looking out for the people? nobody, it's all about big business.

Weed kills too, though. Let's not act like pot is this completely harmless cure for all aches and pains.

Von Dumbass
10-10-2011, 02:59 AM
By the way...have you ever had high sex? If that doesn't tip the scales in favor of weed, nothing will.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/s1rdlkF5udM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Predarat
10-10-2011, 08:15 AM
Both at the same time.

threebag02
10-10-2011, 08:23 AM
Little bit of weed mixed with some hard liquor

-King-
10-10-2011, 08:24 AM
Weed kills too, though. Let's not act like pot is this completely harmless cure for all aches and pains.

When has weed ever killed someone?
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Phobia
10-10-2011, 10:45 AM
I've known some pot-heads who were worthless and some potheads who were pretty normal. I guess it just depends who you are and how much you smoke.

Nzoner
10-10-2011, 10:50 AM
I've known some pot-heads who were worthless and some potheads who were pretty normal. I guess it just depends who you are and how much you smoke.

It really does depend on who you are,I know some very successful business people who smoke daily,they also know there's a time and place for everything.

4th and Long
10-10-2011, 10:52 AM
Alcohol is more dangerous then weed.
Filling your lungs with smoke isn't dangerous at all.

All those fire fighters that run into burning building, wearing resperators, are a bunch of panzies.
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NewChief
10-10-2011, 10:55 AM
Filling your lungs with smoke isn't dangerous at all.

All those fire fighters that run into burning building, wearing resperators, are a bunch of panzies.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not a weed apologist (though I might be coming off as one in this thread), but there are safer delivery methods out there (vaporizers, tinctures, etc...). One assumes that if it were legalized, these would become more widespread (and that is the case in states with medical marijuana), thus reducing the harmful effects of smoking as a delivery method.

Otter
10-10-2011, 10:58 AM
It really does depend on who you are,I know some very successful business people who smoke daily,they also know there's a time and place for everything.

I know people that never touched a drug in their life that are dumb as rocks and alcoholics and pot heads that are super smart.

Weed and alcohol may enhance stupidity but I don't think it's the cause. There's a much deeper issue for plain stupid.

As someone whose abused both back in the day I can attest that weed is much easier on the body and mind than alcohol and I have yet to have someone that has actually tried them both to say say otherwise.

But hey, the government says THC is bad and they would never lie to you. Right?

4th and Long
10-10-2011, 11:02 AM
I'm not a weed apologist (though I might be coming off as one in this thread), but there are safer delivery methods out there (vaporizers, tinctures, etc...). One assumes that if it were legalized, these would become more widespread (and that is the case in states with medical marijuana), thus reducing the harmful effects of smoking as a delivery method.
Copious studies suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells.

Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in severely immunocompromised patients.

Must be good for you!

Otter
10-10-2011, 11:03 AM
On a side note: there's a VERY interesting documentary being shown on PBS right now about prohibition of alcohol and it's effects on society that can be applied unilaterally

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/prohibition/

Prohibition of something you can make in your basement doesn't work.

NewChief
10-10-2011, 11:05 AM
Copious studies suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells.

Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in severely immunocompromised patients.

Must be good for you!

Once again, it sounds like what you're citing involves smoking and discounts other available, though lesser used, delivery methods (ingestion, vaporizers, etc.)

DJ's left nut
10-10-2011, 11:06 AM
:spock: My son IS my life. He gives my life purpose.

So that's why parents all sit in a circle and tell stories about their kids for hours on end.

Seriously - hanging it with parents absolutely sucks. It's the most miserable time I've ever spent...ever. Everytime I go to a get together w/ people that I used to enjoy hanging out with only to be surrounded by a dozen or more children and parents sitting around yacking about said children (in between yelling and/or complaining about them) I want to stick a fork in my eye.

People are fun, then they have kids, become parents and are just miserable to be around.

P.S. Pot is illegal so I generally steer clear of it (sorry, but rules are rules). That said, I have probably smoked in the neighborhood of 10-20 times over the last decade or so and there's really no comparison. Pot floors alcohol. The high is less aggressive, there's no hangover, there's no general sickness associated with it. There's no real tipping point like there is with alcohol (8 beers - fine...9 beers - feel godawful, etc...). If pot were legal my beer fridge would be empty overnight. I'd have a couple of bottles of Scotch in my bar for casual sipping, I'd have a crapload of wine in the basement for drinking with steaks and I'd have a big damn fan in my garage for keeping the smoke out of my Camaro when I light up.

NewChief
10-10-2011, 11:06 AM
On a side note: there's a VERY interesting documentary being shown on PBS right now about prohibition of alcohol and it's effects on society that can be applied unilaterally

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/prohibition/

Prohibition of something you can make in your basement doesn't work.

Yup. The owner of my gym and I were just discussing that documentary, and we brought up a lot of the same issues that have surfaced in this thread.

DaFace
10-10-2011, 11:09 AM
Copious studies suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells.

Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in severely immunocompromised patients.

Must be good for you!

I think you're missing the point of the thread. I don't think anyone would argue that marijuana is 100% safe. The thread is about "weed vs. alcohol." It's pretty clear that alcohol is relatively deadly when you consider cases of alcohol poisoning, liver damage, drinking and driving, etc. If the harmful effects of weed amount to "weakened immune system," that's a pretty clear winner.

4th and Long
10-10-2011, 11:17 AM
I think you're missing the point of the thread. I don't think anyone would argue that marijuana is 100% safe. The thread is about "weed vs. alcohol." It's pretty clear that alcohol is relatively deadly when you consider cases of alcohol poisoning, liver damage, drinking and driving, etc. If the harmful effects of weed amount to "weakened immune system," that's a pretty clear winner.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I'm arguing with pot heads. You didn't even give me time to whip out one of these to distract them, damnit!

http://www.hostesscakes.com/images/products/box_hohos.jpg

Nzoner
10-10-2011, 11:20 AM
I know people that never touched a drug in their life that are dumb as rocks and alcoholics and pot heads that are super smart.

Weed and alcohol may enhance stupidity but I don't think it's the cause. There's a much deeper issue for plain stupid.

As someone whose abused both back in the day I can attest that weed is much easier on the body and mind than alcohol and I have yet to have someone that has actually tried them both to say say otherwise.

But hey, the government says THC is bad and they would never lie to you. Right?

QFT

Johnny Vegas
10-10-2011, 11:24 AM
I didn't realize that the Drug Czar is required by law to lie about the effects on drugs such as Cannabis.

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-czar-required/

crispystl420
10-10-2011, 04:35 PM
Or maybe your user name?

Yup thought about that after I posted lmao.

Extra Point
10-10-2011, 04:48 PM
Legalize it, tax the shit out of it, and drive on.

BigMeatballDave
10-10-2011, 04:52 PM
Legalize it, tax the shit out of it, and drive on.

I'll just grow my own. :)

BigMeatballDave
10-10-2011, 05:00 PM
So that's why parents all sit in a circle and tell stories about their kids for hours on end.

Seriously - hanging it with parents absolutely sucks. It's the most miserable time I've ever spent...ever. Everytime I go to a get together w/ people that I used to enjoy hanging out with only to be surrounded by a dozen or more children and parents sitting around yacking about said children (in between yelling and/or complaining about them) I want to stick a fork in my eye.

People are fun, then they have kids, become parents and are just miserable to be around.

P.S. Pot is illegal so I generally steer clear of it (sorry, but rules are rules). That said, I have probably smoked in the neighborhood of 10-20 times over the last decade or so and there's really no comparison. Pot floors alcohol. The high is less aggressive, there's no hangover, there's no general sickness associated with it. There's no real tipping point like there is with alcohol (8 beers - fine...9 beers - feel godawful, etc...). If pot were legal my beer fridge would be empty overnight. I'd have a couple of bottles of Scotch in my bar for casual sipping, I'd have a crapload of wine in the basement for drinking with steaks and I'd have a big damn fan in my garage for keeping the smoke out of my Camaro when I light up.I'm assuming you don't have a child, and you should probably never have any. I don't sit around blabbing about my son. He's a great kid. He's almost 13 and he's taking honors classes. Could not be more proud of him. Nothing could gratify me more.

BigMeatballDave
10-10-2011, 05:03 PM
If people don't smoke because it's illegal, probably shouldn't drive over the speed limit.

You have a far greater chance of getting busted for speeding than you would smoking a joint on your front porch.

DJ's left nut
10-10-2011, 05:04 PM
Blabbing about my son.

FYP.

BigMeatballDave
10-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Copious studies suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells.

Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in severely immunocompromised patients.

Must be good for you!
I wouldn't recommend smoking 20 joints a day.

BigMeatballDave
10-10-2011, 05:11 PM
FYP.

4321

Johnny Vegas
10-10-2011, 05:18 PM
Copious studies suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells.

Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in severely immunocompromised patients.

Must be good for you!

so take vitamins and don't smoke it, but eat it. :)

The_Doctor10
10-10-2011, 07:29 PM
Legalize it, tax the shit out of it, and drive on.

Why? Decriminalize, allow one plant per person. I dunno, just don't make me have to deal with scumbags when I want a plant that makes the day AWESOME.

crispystl420
10-10-2011, 07:47 PM
Why? Decriminalize, allow one plant per person. I dunno, just don't make me have to deal with scumbags when I want a plant that makes the day AWESOME.

This, just let me buy a license to grow one plant, and when we smoke that shit we can watch Dr. Who together Bro!

4th and Long
10-10-2011, 07:52 PM
Why? Decriminalize, allow one plant per person. I dunno, just don't make me have to deal with scumbags when I want a plant that makes the day AWESOME.

They will make the licensing grossly unaffordable and justify the fee by adding law enforcement personel who's sole job it is to come to your house every week to make sure you only have one plant. :p
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RubberSponge
10-11-2011, 05:39 AM
Copious studies suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells.

Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in severely immunocompromised patients.

Must be good for you!

So there isn't any ill side effects with pharmaceuticals, including being an immunosuppressant? How about the numerous pharmaceuticals you personally dispense every single day that can have a side effect of death? Do you personally make it a point to bring those facts out when having patients chuck down pill after pill after pill?

What about the Federal Govt. and DEA saying there isn't any medical properties or benefits to cannabis, yet allow FDA approval for pharmaceutical THC(Marinol), which quite frankly is lacking in many other beneficial cannabinoids? Don't you see the hypocrisy in the stance the Govt. has taken?

Isn't it time to give up the charade the Govt. has put out about cannabis and allow people to make their own decisions to either consume or not?

nstygma
10-11-2011, 05:58 AM
So there isn't any ill side effects with pharmaceuticals, including being an immunosuppressant? How about the numerous pharmaceuticals you personally dispense every single day that can have a side effect of death? Do you personally make it a point to bring those facts out when having patients chuck down pill after pill after pill?

What about the Federal Govt. and DEA saying there isn't any medical properties or benefits to cannabis, yet allow FDA approval for pharmaceutical THC(Marinol), which quite frankly is lacking in many other beneficial cannabinoids? Don't you see the hypocrisy in the stance the Govt. has taken?

Isn't it time to give up the charade the Govt. has put out about cannabis and allow people to make their own decisions to either consume or not?The study referenced in his post is about smoking it, and I think the only bad thing they can really say about cannabis is "inhaling smoke is unhealthy" which is true. There are many other ways to ingest this natural plant that do not involve inhaling smoke from burnt plant material.
Furthermore, there are many many people alive now who have smoked weed daily for many decades. Where are all these people with tumors ravaging their bodies from smoking the devil-weed?

NewChief
10-11-2011, 07:55 AM
Much better to take government-sanctioned happy meds:

http://politics.salon.com/2011/10/11/as_abuse_mounted_dea_boosted_painkiller_supply/
As abuse mounted, DEA boosted painkiller supply
Ex-official says anti-drug agency rubber-stamped Big Pharma's requests to increase Oxycodone production

BY GUY TAYLOR

(Credit: iStockphoto)
TOPICS:DRUGS, OXYCODONE, DEA
An epidemic of Oxycodone abuse has struck America in the last decade. The number of emergency room visits stemming from non-medical abuse of the narcotic prescription painkiller drug rose by 256 percent between 2004 and 2009, according to the U.S. government’s Drug Abuse Warning Network.

In March 2010, Washington state Attorney General Rob McKenna said his state was “losing more people to prescription drug overdoses in a typical year than to traffic accidents.” In Florida, the Medical Examiners commission found more than 1,500 people died of Oxycodone overdose in 2010, a four-fold increase over the 350 who died in 2005. The supply of Oxycodone, says Jim Hall, director of the Center for the Study and Prevention of Substance Abuse at Nova Southeastern University, went “far beyond the legitimate medical need of the state.”

The epidemic is not likely to abate soon. The explosion of pain management clinics in Florida, dubbed “pill mills,” prompted the state Legislature last year to close a loophole that had allowed physicians to fill Oxy prescriptions on the spot. Authorities say a half-billion doses of Oxycodone and its generic equivalents were distributed in the state during 2009 alone. An unknown number wound up in the hands of “patients” who had come from out of state to have prescriptions filled by multiple pill mills, before driving home to resell the pills on the black market.

The scope of damage wrought by Oxycodone’s oversupply in Florida is felt nationwide. In Maine, an official from the state’s Office of Substance Abuse sent me an internal spreadsheet showing that more than 4 million prescription painkiller pills had been legally prescribed by state physicians in 2010, five times the amount legally dispensed in 2006. Officials in Ohio went one step further, identifying the per capita amount of opioids being prescribed county-by-county. Jackson County, in the southern part of the state, won the alarming distinction of having more than 130 doses for every resident in 2010. The number of pills prescribed in Ohio has risen by 900 percent since 1997, a powerful indicator that the market for pills has become oversaturated.

“There’s just no way that there’s been a 900 percent increase in pain,” says Stacey Frohnapfel-Hasson, chief of communications for Ohio’s Department of Alcohol and Drug Addiction Services.

A 1,200 percent increase

One of the most disturbing things about the prescription pain pill abuse epidemic is that it could have been avoided, or at least mitigated, if the DEA had fulfilled the responsibilities vested in it under federal law.

That’s the view of Gene Haislip, who, until his retirement in 1997, spent 17 years as the head of a one of the least-publicized law enforcement entities in Washington: the Drug Enforcement Administration’s Office of Diversion Control.

“For those of us who devoted our careers to the DEA and drug enforcement, we really love the agency, but you can’t love them when they screw up,” Haislip told Salon. “You’ve got to have some kind of principles.”

It’s well known that narcotic prescription drugs sold in the United States must first be approved by U.S. Food and Drug Administration before they can be legally mass produced and marketed. Less known is the fact that the DEA – and specifically, the Office of Diversion Control – then has the power and responsibility to decide how much of a particular drug can be legally manufactured and sent to market each year.

The pharmaceutical companies that make Oxycodone and its two dozen generic equivalents — such as Endocodone, Oxyfast and Percocet — are required by law to present an annual application to the Office of Diversion Control seeking approval for a quota of the drug’s annual production. Should a company desire to manufacture more than the previous year, it must request an increase — and the DEA must approve.

The DEA declined to respond to my request for the names of the companies that have been granted the biggest manufacturing quota increases in recent years. But information gleaned from the agency’s website, combined with statistics provided by Haislip, show the aggregate increase granted to all companies making the potent painkiller has been staggering.

In 1997, a year after prescription drugmaker Purdue Pharma first brought Oxycontin (the first branded version of Oxycodone) to market, the total production quota approved by the Office of Diversion Control was 8.3 tons. By 2011, it had risen to 105 tons, an officially sanctioned 1,200 percent increase over the same period that saw Oxycodone emerge as what Haislip calls “the Cadillac of America’s prescription drug abuse crisis."

That the DEA allowed for the increases in the face of widespread illegal and non-medical use shows a ”serious lack of accountability and oversight,” says Haislip.

“The DEA is the lone federal agency with the power to decide how much of the drug gets made and put out there; it alone has had all the responsibility to do something about this problem,” he said. “The way I did it for 17 years, which was basically the way it had always been done even before the DEA was the DEA, is that when a significant diversion problem occurred, the quota increase requests would come under greater scrutiny.”

“With Oxy,” said Haislip, “there has been a significant diversion problem since the late 1990s, so the requests should have come under greater scrutiny.” That apparently didn’t happen, he says.

What’s particularly disturbing, Haislip asserts, is that the DEA has failed to draw wisdom from two clear-cut examples over the past 40 years in which manufacturing quotas were cut as a means of reducing widespread abuse.

The first occurred in the early 1970s when pill-based amphetamines became a staple of America’s black-market drug trade. In 1973, the DEA enforced a 90 percent reduction in domestic amphetamine production over two years, resulting in what John E. Ingersoll, director of the DEA’s predecessor agency, the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs, told Congress was “a sharp reduction” in the illicit market.

A second example occurred during the early 1980s, when Haislip had first taken over the DEA’s newly minted Office of Diversion Control. Between 1980 and 1982, the office enforced a 74 percent cut in the manufacturing quota for Methaqualone, the core ingredient of the sedative-hypnotic drugs known as Quaaludes. The quota cuts, coupled with a coordinated effort to block illegal international flows of the drug into the United States, had effectively erased the problem of Methaqualone abuse.

The DEA’s unwillingness to embrace such a strategy toward Oxycodone perplexes those now battling the abuse crisis at the state and local level.

“If containing the number of prescription opiates is as simple as just the DEA limiting quotas, it’s really kind of tragic that loss of life and the carnage associated with this could have been prevented,” said Orman Hall, director of Ohio’s Department of Alcohol and Drug Addiction Services, told me.

Just a few days before, Gil Kerlikowske, director of the White House Office on National Drug Control Policy, had appeared at a series of events in Ohio as part of a theatrical rolling out of President Obama’s 2011 National Drug Control Strategy. Responding to “America’s prescription drug abuses epidemic,” the plan calls for an expansion of state-based prescription drug monitoring programs and emphasizes education programs for patients and prescribers. The plan makes no reference to the possibility that market oversaturation could be a cause of the epidemic.

When I asked ONDCP if the 900 percent increase in opioids prescribed in Ohio might represent oversaturation of the market, the office provided me with a series of unrelated talking points from a press release on the White House plan. My request to interview ONDCP officials was ignored. Perhaps most disconcerting was ONDCP’s response to my question about DEA approval of manufacturing quotas for narcotic opioids:

“DEA and FDA work together to establish the quotas for controlled substances,” the spokesman wrote. “Our data show that dispensed prescriptions for opioids between 2008 and 2009 did not increase. This stabilization in dispensed prescriptions was then followed by a period of flattening in the total production quota for oxycodone, hydrocodone, methadone, morphine, and oxymorphone in both 2010 and 2011. This suggests a leveling off in production.”

The realm of secrecy

The ONDCP response did not address the question of whether the prescription painkiller market had been oversaturated by production increase over the last decade. And given the massive production increases approved in the secretive decision-making process, the claim that the FDA and the DEA “work together” is less than reassuring. The website of the Office of Diversion Control contains a trove of general information about the quota-setting process, but those who work in the office are unwilling to provide specific details about which companies benefited from the production increases.

“We protect the data regarding the quantity that we give to individual companies so that they don’t know what each other is doing and get an unfair marketing advantage,” said Gary Boggs, a DEA supervisory special agent, in an interview.

When ask why such significant increases in Oxycodone manufacturing have been allowed in the last decade. Boggs asserted that the DEA is required by statute to set the quotas at a level that ensures “an uninterrupted supply for the legitimate medical and scientific research needs of the United Sates” and that those needs are “always changing as the population grows and as medical science finds different needs for products.”

“I can assure you that there’s no collusion between the drug companies and the DEA,” he said. “We battle quite regularly with the pharmaceutical industry on how much quota they ask for and how much they receive. On many instances, we do not give companies the amounts that they ask for.”

But wouldn’t the widespread abuse and diversion of a drug in recent years warrant cutting the quota, I asked?

“What you have to understand,” Boggs replied, “is that you do have legitimate patients and they’re fishing from the same pond that the illegitimate patients are fishing from, so you have to be cautious not to restrict the quota to the point that when the legitimate parties go to the pool, all the fish haven’t been taken out by the illegitimate parties.”

Boggs acknowledged the limitations of the metaphor, but added that “we can’t just be arbitrary and capricious in cutting the quota simply because we have a diversion problem.”

The fact is that the U.S. government has adopted a position on prescription painkillers that differs from its policy toward other controlled substances such as cocaine, heroin and marijuana: Unlike those drugs, the DEA says limiting the supply of the prescription painkillers will not reduce abuse.

So while the Justice Department’s 2010 National Drug Threat Assessment blames the staggering growth of prescription painkiller abuse on the “rapidly increasing distribution” of prescription opioids, it includes an inconspicuous footnote defending the DEA’s role in approving the rapidly increasing production of the drugs at the same time.

Contributing factors to quota increases include: more aggressive pain treatment, new and different indications for legitimate medical use, the increase in the average age of the citizenry, new delivery methods and formulations for opioid pain relievers, new product development, and exportation. Thus, decreased production is not viewed as a realistic means to reduce diversion.

The role of the FDA in the approval of manufacturing more prescription painkillers is also shrouded in secrecy. The FDA, said spokesman Shelly Burgess, supplies the DEA with annual reports “summarizing drug usage and shortage data, prescribing trends and estimates of futures needs.” But the FDA reports cannot be released publicly, she said, because they contain “commercial confidential information.”

Addiction “through devious means”

To understand why the FDA and DEA so protect the interests of certain companies, it’s worth remembering what Marcia Angell, former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, pointed out in her 2004 book, “The Truth About the Drug Companies.” The Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) employs more lobbyists in Washington than there are members of Congress.

Since 2007, the group has spent more than $20 million annually on lobbying in Washington to see that its interests are protected.

That influence is felt in the offices of the DEA, says Haislip.

“For a DEA official to put his or her neck on the line to block a company’s requested quota increase takes an awful lot of guts and a lot of hard work, particularly if that company is supporting members of Congress who have the power to block the agency’s funding,” he said.

All the big-name pharmaceutical companies that make Oxycodone products — including, but not limited to, Pfizer, Purdue Pharma and Endo Pharmaceuticals — are members of PhRMA. They also spend additional millions lobbying annually for their own specific interests. And they are the biggest donors to a national a nonprofit organization known as the American Pain Foundation. According to the organization’s most recent annual report, the American Pain Foundation had a budget of roughly $5 million for 2010. Endo Pharmaceuticals, the maker of a variety of Oxycodone-based painkillers including Percocet, gave more than $1 million. Pfizer and Purdue donated between $100,000 and a half-million last year.

The organization and others like it push the message, both publicly and in Congress, that “there is this supposed untreated pain epidemic in America,” says Philip Prior, a consultant to the Ohio Department of Alcohol and Drug Addiction Services. “They’ve launched this massive lobbying effort to promote prescription narcotics to treat everything. What the pharmaceutical companies have managed to do with narcotics over the last 20 years is essentially addict a large portion of our population through devious means.”

Prior’s view is shared by Frances Hughes, chief deputy to West Virginia Attorney General Darrell McGraw Jr., who brought a civil case against Purdue Pharma during the early 2000s, accusing the company of engaging in coercive and deceptive marketing techniques. By the middle of the decade, West Virginia was suffering the nation’s highest drug overdose death rate, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, with the majority of the deaths being linked to Oxycodone-based prescription drug abuse.

“All economics come down to supply and demand,” says Hughes. “We have a black market only because the supply exceeds legitimate demand and that’s always what I believed our case was about when I first started looking at this.”

From DEA to Big Pharma

The drug companies also benefit from a proverbial “revolving door” between government and special interests. West Virginia’s lawsuit was resolved in 2004 when Purdue Pharma agreed to pay $10 million over four years into drug abuse and education programs in the state. The settlement was negotiated on Purdue Pharma’s behalf by Eric Holder Jr., then a private attorney, who five years later became the chief of the Justice Department, which oversees DEA.

There is also a revolving door between the DEA’s Office of Diversion Control, and the pharmaceutical industry. For example, Mark W. Caverly served as chief of the Liaison and Policy Section within the Office of Diversion Control at DEA until early this year. It was his job to work with DEA-regulated industries and associations, providing interpretations of federal law and regulations to congressional staff, DEA registrants and the general public. In May, Cegedim Relationship Management, a consulting firm based in New Jersey and owned by a French multinational, announced it had hired Caverly. The firm specializes in facilitating “compliance” with DEA regulations.

Cegedim’s chief compliance officer, Ron W. Buzzeo, is himself a DEA retiree who served as a deputy director of the Office of Diversion Control from 1982 through 1990. In an interview, Buzzeo dismissed the suggestion that there might be a conflict of interest. “To help somebody meet the regulatory requirements? Why would that be a conflict of interest? I don’t understand the question,” he said.

Frances Hughes said the fact that people working in the Office of Diversion control know that they might get lucrative work with drug companies upon retirement constitutes a conflict of interest that prevents DEA officials from doing their duty.

“Are you really going to strike out and be on the front lines against an industry that you might depend on for a job after you retire from the DEA?” she asked. “No. Are you going to offer an opinion or do something that’s going to cut off your flow of money? No.”

“It’s insidious and the result is that you have agencies that become captive to the regulated industry,” Hughes added. “In this case, it would be terrible if we had the DEA being a captive of the pharmaceutical industry.”

Otter
10-11-2011, 08:08 AM
So there isn't any ill side effects with pharmaceuticals, including being an immunosuppressant? How about the numerous pharmaceuticals you personally dispense every single day that can have a side effect of death? Do you personally make it a point to bring those facts out when having patients chuck down pill after pill after pill?

No shit. Here's a list of side effects for Lamisil. A prescription medication for toenail fungus:

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/lamisil-side-effects.html

Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing or swallowing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, throat, or tongue; unusual hoarseness); mental or mood changes (eg, depression); mouth sores; new or worsening symptoms of lupus (eg, butterfly-shaped rash on the face, joint pain, seizures, skin color changes, unusual sensitivity to the sun); red, blistered, peeling, or swollen skin; severe muscle pain or tenderness; symptoms of infection (eg, fever, chills, sore throat); symptoms of liver problems (eg, dark urine, decreased appetite, pale stools, persistent nausea, stomach pain, unusual tiredness or weakness, vomiting, yellowing of the skin or eyes); taste changes (eg, taste loss); unexpected weight loss; unusual bruising or bleeding; vision changes.

I'm not even sure where to start on which symptoms bold in order to make my point. I guess liver damage would have to be one of the first.

Sign, sealed and approved all by your governments FDA. Trust your government people, they have your best interests in mind. :thumb:

Anyone wanna talk tobacco?

NewChief
10-11-2011, 08:25 AM
The opiate craze hasn't peaked yet, and the legal amphetamine craze (adderall and vyvanse) is about to get huge. I can't tell you how many people I know who have a prescription for adderall just because they told their doctor they sometimes had a hard time focusing.

Extra Point
10-11-2011, 08:29 AM
Point lost fragments sentence might have want had why?

Exactly!

Carlota69
10-11-2011, 08:29 AM
Alcohol is by FAR more deadly than marijuana.

My best friend is a binge drinker, you know the one who is sober for 6 months and then goes off the deep end and drinks himself into oblivion after just one glass of wine. Drinks himself into the hospital with blood alcohol level of .347 (which is basically like being under anesthesia--.4 is coma). Drinks himself into lies and manipulation. Drinks himself out of career advancement. Drinks himself into a dextox that could kill him ala Amy Winehouse.

Sorry, but that shit doesnt happen with pot.

Also, Oxy's have probably killed more people in the last decade than pot has in the last century. Oxycotin is the devil and is handed out like candy by our drug-dealing govt.

Im not sure of the exact origin of the illeagality of pot, but isnt based out of racism? I saw that on a documentary, but I truly dont remember the details.

phisherman
10-11-2011, 10:11 AM
the origin of pot's illegality goes back to hemp and its associated products. hemp paper was poised to put a lot of paper mills out of business. william randolph hearst sicked the dogs on the hemp industry, saying that it caused insanity, sex addiction, and other crazy things. it was also advertised as the scourge of black jazz musicians and migrant mexican workers.

Pants
10-11-2011, 10:15 AM
The opiate craze hasn't peaked yet, and the legal amphetamine craze (adderall and vyvanse) is about to get huge. I can't tell you how many people I know who have a prescription for adderall just because they told their doctor they sometimes had a hard time focusing.

The blame should be reserved for shitty doctors.

chasedude
10-12-2011, 02:33 AM
the origin of pot's illegality goes back to hemp and its associated products. hemp paper was poised to put a lot of paper mills out of business. william randolph hearst sicked the dogs on the hemp industry, saying that it caused insanity, sex addiction, and other crazy things. it was also advertised as the scourge of black jazz musicians and migrant mexican workers.

Andrew Mellon of Dupont was a big friend of Hearst at the time and was pushing his new synthetic fiber, nylon.

Demonize a natural fiber with propaganda form Hearst's newspapers and lobby Congress with Dupont money and the trail of shit just gets deeper and deeper.

Johnny Vegas
10-12-2011, 02:49 AM
just start killing all the CEO's of big pharma.

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 02:49 AM
The opiate craze hasn't peaked yet, and the legal amphetamine craze (adderall and vyvanse) is about to get huge. I can't tell you how many people I know who have a prescription for adderall just because they told their doctor they sometimes had a hard time focusing.

I've taken adderall before. Not subscribed, just for rec use.

Took one at work and I got a lot of shit done that night. :)

chasedude
10-12-2011, 02:54 AM
I've taken adderall before. Not subscribed, just for rec use.

Took one at work and I got a lot of shit done that night. :)

I wonder if it'll help me clean the house. I'm not the cleanliest Bachelor in the world and absolutely HATE house work.

And I know what you guys are thinking, get the wife/fiance/girlfriend to do it. Well... she's worse than I am. She does make great sandwiches though :D

BigMeatballDave
10-12-2011, 03:24 AM
I wonder if it'll help me clean the house. I'm not the cleanliest Bachelor in the world and absolutely HATE house work.

And I know what you guys are thinking, get the wife/fiance/girlfriend to do it. Well... she's worse than I am. She does make great sandwiches though :D

Probably. I'm a big guy and one small pill had me fucking wired. Ritalin is a good one, too.

The best 'speed' I ever took was Dexidrine. A buddy's mother was narcoleptic.

NewChief
10-12-2011, 06:15 AM
Looks like the FDA is actually stepping in on Adderall. They must not have lined enough pockets on this one.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20110417/SUB/304179972

Nationwide shortage of Adderall generics
A generic medicine for attention deficit disorder is suddenly difficult to find.

A generic prescription for attention disorders has gotten hard to find in NYC.

New Yorkers who rely on a popular generic drug to ease symptoms of attention deficit disorder or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder have had to cope in recent weeks with a sudden, nationwide shortage of the generic version of Adderall XR. It is a challenge for pharmacists and doctors, as well.

“When you have a shortage like this with no end point, we go around in circles, and it's a waste of time for everyone,” said Ray Macioci, president of the New York City Pharmacists Society and owner of Pilgrim Pharmacy in the Bronx. “When one pharmacy doesn't have it, patients go from pharmacy to pharmacy until they get frustrated and ask their doctor to write a prescription for the [more expensive] brand.”

The generic version, which has been on the market for about a year, often carries a lower co-pay than the brand-name drug, Adderall XR, in many health plans. Further complicating the matter, the drug is a stimulant and can be abused, so it is a controlled substance, with restrictions on how it is dispensed.

As of December, Adderall XR generics had 12.4% of the U.S. market for ADHD drugs. Shire, which makes Adderall XR, had a 24.6% share with its three ADHD brand-name drugs, according to market research firm IMS Health.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration last week placed the generic version—amphetamine mixed salts, extended-release capsules—on its list of drugs in shortage, which is largely due to production issues.

Also last week, Aetna's mail-order pharmacy unit issued a letter warning customers that the generic was in “short supply” and “likely to remain in short supply in the coming months.” The letter explained that if Aetna can't fill the three-month prescription by mail with a generic, the member will pay a higher co-pay for the brand-name drug.

“We usually don't have such difficulties in stocking generic medications,” said a spokeswoman for Aetna. “We have worked very hard to try to obtain the generic but receive only a small supply.”

Pharmacies around the city have had to counsel clients that they will be paying much more for the brand-name drug. “Most people have a tiered co-pay, so they could be bumped up $25, $50 or $75, depending on their plan,” said Ron Del Gaudio, owner of Kings Pharmacy in Park Slope, Brooklyn, which hasn't been able to get any generic for weeks.

“ADHD in adults and children is a treatable condition, but anything that stands in the way of treatment is a matter of concern,” says Dr. Lenard Adler, a professor in the departments of psychiatry and of child and adolescent psychiatry at NYU Langone Medical Center.

As more people are diagnosed with ADHD, demand is rising for drugs that treat the condition. The 2010 wholesale market for generic versions of Adderall XR was $252 million, while that for Adderall XR was $777 million, according to Wolters Kluwer Pharma Solutions.

“I've seen more people requesting Adderall XR; it is marketed very heavily,” said Dr. Alan Ravitz, a senior psychopharmacologist at the Child Mind Institute.

Dave Lane
10-12-2011, 08:22 AM
And it is getting worse. The IRS is now going after legal(state laws)compassion centers in California. The Justice Dept has told dispensaries they have 45 days to shut down or they will have everything taken and charged with a federal crime.

In Colorado the Federal Govt. is forcing banks to refuse business from legal cannabis businesses.

And that is the just in the past week.


At every crossway on the road that leads to the future, each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand men appointed to guard the past.

Frikken old folks fight back.

Lono
10-12-2011, 08:36 AM
Because a tolerance builds up, marijuana can lead users to consume stronger drugs to achieve the same high. There is a reason it's called the "Gateway" drug. When the effects start to wear off, people may turn to more potent drugs to rid themselves of the unwanted conditions that prompted them to take marijuana in the first place. Marijuana itself does not lead the person to the other drugs: people take teh drugs to get rid of the unwanted situations or feelings. When the "high" fades, the problem, unwanted condition or situation returns more intensely than before. Users may then turn to stronger drugs since marijuana no longer "works". Marijuana effects coordination and distortions in the sense of time, vision, and hearing. It speeds your heart rate up and in the first hour of smoking marijuana could raise a users risk of a heart attack five times. Over the long haul it can cause psychotic symptoms and cause damage to the lungs and the heart and can reduce the body's ability to fight lung infections and illness.

According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.

Alcohol is just as dangerous, they both should be outlawed.

NewChief
10-12-2011, 08:45 AM
Alcohol is just as dangerous, they both should be outlawed.

Yeah. Prohibition was such a success the first time around.

Lono
10-12-2011, 09:32 AM
Yeah. Prohibition was such a success the first time around.

Alcohol kills more teenagers than all other drugs combined. Prohibition was cancelled in 1933 because of such a boom in illegal alcohol trade. People illegally sell meth every day, does that mean we should make it legal? The truth is, 15 million Americans suffer from alcoholism and 40% of all car accident deaths involve alcohol. I have kids and think life would be a whole lot better without either. Obviously people are not responsible enough to drink at home or with a DD.

Fish
10-12-2011, 09:37 AM
Marijuana killed my father, and raped my mother!! If you smoke weed, it's like you're smoking with Satan. And Hitler and probably evil muslims too.

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3301/devilsharvestposter01.jpg

Brock
10-12-2011, 09:38 AM
Alcohol kills more teenagers than all other drugs combined. Prohibition was cancelled in 1933 because of such a boom in illegal alcohol trade. People illegally sell meth every day, does that mean we should make it legal? The truth is, 15 million Americans suffer from alcoholism and 40% of all car accident deaths involve alcohol. I have kids and think life would be a whole lot better without either. Obviously people are not responsible enough to drink at home or with a DD.

Are you going to ban red meat? People die from heart attacks and cancer because they can't responsibly consume it.

CosmicPal
10-12-2011, 09:46 AM
Weed inspired some of the greatest music, works of art, and literature ever created.

Alcohol inspired dumb jokes and making an ass of yourself in public.

Otter
10-12-2011, 09:46 AM
Marijuana killed my father, and raped my mother!! If you smoke weed, it's like you're smoking with Satan. And Hitler and probably evil muslims too.

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3301/devilsharvestposter01.jpg

Actually marijuana combined Hitler, Satan, Jeffery Dahmer, Pol Pot, Carmen from South Park and the boogie man all into one. I drew a picture for you but my face melted and it deleted itself before I could upload it.

Some serious shit.

Lono
10-12-2011, 09:50 AM
Are you going to ban red meat? People die from heart attacks and cancer because they can't responsibly consume it.

If you are going to compare red meat with drugs there is no reason for us to discuss it.

I guess I'll play, people can eat red meat and go drive. People can eat red meat and not want to steal, or beat someone's butt. There is zero comparison there. Eating red meat will only effect that person, no one else.

Brock
10-12-2011, 09:51 AM
If you are going to compare red meat with drugs there is no reason for us to discuss it.

They're both substances that can be harmful if used to excess. So yeah, there actually is a reason for us to discuss it.

You like nanny government, I don't.

Lono
10-12-2011, 09:53 AM
Read my edited post before your last.

Otter
10-12-2011, 09:56 AM
If you are going to compare red meat with drugs there is no reason for us to discuss it.

I guess I'll play, people can eat red meat and go drive. People can eat red meat and not want to steal, or beat someone's butt. There is zero comparison there. Eating red meat will only effect that person, no one else.

You might as well be telling Neil Armstrong how he should walk on the moon.

Where are you pulling this knowledge from?

Brock
10-12-2011, 09:58 AM
If you are going to compare red meat with drugs there is no reason for us to discuss it.

I guess I'll play, people can eat red meat and go drive. People can eat red meat and not want to steal, or beat someone's butt. There is zero comparison there. Eating red meat will only effect that person, no one else.

People steal and fight with or without drugs/alcohol. So your only point really, is about the driving. That's not enough of a reason to allow the government to stick their nose into the business of the people.

Fish
10-12-2011, 10:03 AM
If you are going to compare red meat with drugs there is no reason for us to discuss it.

I guess I'll play, people can eat red meat and go drive. People can eat red meat and not want to steal, or beat someone's butt. There is zero comparison there. Eating red meat will only effect that person, no one else.

Marijuana makes people want to steal and beat someone's butt?

LMAO... do you seriously believe that?

You sound woefully ignorant of the topic. Drugs don't give people the urge to steal. Being a thief gives people the urge to steal. Substances like drugs and alcohol don't just magically implant ideas in people's heads that weren't previously there. It just doesn't work that way.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:03 AM
You might as well be telling Neil Armstrong how he should walk on the moon.

Where are you pulling this knowledge from?

I'm a high school health teacher.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:05 AM
Marijuana makes people want to steal and beat someone's butt?

LMAO... do you seriously believe that?

You sound woefully ignorant of the topic. Drugs don't give people the urge to steal. Being a thief gives people the urge to steal. Substances like drugs and alcohol don't just magically implant ideas in people's heads that weren't previously there. It just doesn't work that way.

I have had tons of friends who were perfectly normal dudes, who started smoking weed and drinking like fish who turned into scum bags. The facts and statistics back my views up, not yours.

Let me add that in College the majority of fights I saw were because of weed. Whether people were stealing stuff to sell to buy it, or stealing the weed to smoke it.

DaFace
10-12-2011, 10:05 AM
Because a tolerance builds up, marijuana can lead users to consume stronger drugs to achieve the same high. There is a reason it's called the "Gateway" drug. When the effects start to wear off, people may turn to more potent drugs to rid themselves of the unwanted conditions that prompted them to take marijuana in the first place. Marijuana itself does not lead the person to the other drugs: people take teh drugs to get rid of the unwanted situations or feelings. When the "high" fades, the problem, unwanted condition or situation returns more intensely than before. Users may then turn to stronger drugs since marijuana no longer "works". Marijuana effects coordination and distortions in the sense of time, vision, and hearing. It speeds your heart rate up and in the first hour of smoking marijuana could raise a users risk of a heart attack five times. Over the long haul it can cause psychotic symptoms and cause damage to the lungs and the heart and can reduce the body's ability to fight lung infections and illness.

According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.

Alcohol is just as dangerous, they both should be outlawed.

The "gateway" thing's been debunked for years.

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/29/marijuna-as-a-gateway-drug-the-myth-that-will-not-die/

Otter
10-12-2011, 10:10 AM
I'm a high school health teacher.

I'm a computer scientist, CCNA certified engineer and a responsible adult that's never been arrested or in any kind of trouble with the law.

Keep your views out of my life and I'll do the same. I'm pretty sure I could find fault in how you communicate with your wife, raise your kids, treat your dog and invest your money and 10,000 other faults if I looked and judged you by my standards.

As long as I'm capable of acting responsible mind your own business and I'll do the same if that's OK with you.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:12 AM
I'm a computer scientist, CCNA certified engineer and a responsible adult that's never been arrested or in any kind of trouble with the law.

Keep your views out of my life and I'll do the same. I'm pretty sure I could find fault in how you communicate with your wife, raise your kids, treat your dog and invest your money if I looked.

As long as I'm capable of acting responsible mind your own business and I'll do the same if that's OK with you.

That's great that you can, it's proven that millions of others can't act as responsibly as you.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:14 AM
The "gateway" thing's been debunked for years.

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/29/marijuna-as-a-gateway-drug-the-myth-that-will-not-die/

That article is only backed up by the authors opinions of numbers. The key to that whole article that he completely dismisses is, "The idea that marijuana may be the first step in a longer career of drug use seems plausible at first: when addicts tell their histories, many begin with a story about marijuana. And there's a strong correlation between marijuana use and other drug use: a person who smokes marijuana is more than 104 times more likely to use cocaine than a person who never tries pot, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

Brock
10-12-2011, 10:14 AM
I have had tons of friends who were perfectly normal dudes, who started smoking weed and drinking like fish who turned into scum bags. The facts and statistics back my views up, not yours.

Let me add that in College the majority of fights I saw were because of weed. Whether people were stealing stuff to sell to buy it, or stealing the weed to smoke it.

No, they were scumbags before they started smoking and drinking.

And no, none of the fights you saw were caused by weed.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:16 AM
No, they were scumbags before they started smoking and drinking.

And no, none of the fights you saw were caused by weed.

Actually no they weren't, and yes they were caused by weed. You guys are strong proponents for legalizing it that's your opinion, but please don't try to tell my what I saw with my own eyes. If you want to put your head in a whole that's fine, I choose not too.

DaFace
10-12-2011, 10:17 AM
That article is only backed up by the authors opinions of numbers. The key to that whole article that he completely dismisses is, "The idea that marijuana may be the first step in a longer career of drug use seems plausible at first: when addicts tell their histories, many begin with a story about marijuana. And there's a strong correlation between marijuana use and other drug use: a person who smokes marijuana is more than 104 times more likely to use cocaine than a person who never tries pot, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

What about this sentence isn't clear?

There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs.

That's directly from the study by the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences.

As the article mentions, the issue is correlation vs. causation. It's a scientific fact that murder rates are strongly correlated with ice cream sales. Should ice cream be banned?

luv
10-12-2011, 10:19 AM
This thread is even more proof that men like arguing just as much as women.

Fish
10-12-2011, 10:19 AM
I have had tons of friends who were perfectly normal dudes, who started smoking weed and drinking like fish who turned into scum bags. The facts and statistics back my views up, not yours.

Let me add that in College the majority of fights I saw were because of weed. Whether people were stealing stuff to sell to buy it, or stealing the weed to smoke it.

There are just as many facts and statistics against your view as there are supporting it. But I understand that it's your job to take the stance you do.

I have no idea how you could think weed could cause violence and fights though. I bet if you asked 100 college students today what substance would cause more violence, weed or alcohol, the answers would really surprise you.

Brock
10-12-2011, 10:20 AM
Actually no they weren't, and yes they were caused by weed. You guys are strong proponents for legalizing it that's your opinion, but please don't try to tell my what I saw with my own eyes. If you want to put your head in a whole that's fine, I choose not too.

Yeah, they were. No, they weren't. Marijuana never turned anybody into a scumbag or started a fight. You are the one with your head in a "whole", not us.

luv
10-12-2011, 10:20 AM
It's a scientific fact that murder rates are strongly correlated with ice cream sales. Should ice cream be banned?

You shut your mouth.

Brock
10-12-2011, 10:20 AM
This thread is even more proof that men like arguing just as much as women.

Sure, but we use logic and intelligence, instead of the opposite of that.

luv
10-12-2011, 10:22 AM
Sure, but we use logic and intelligence, instead of the opposite of that.

Actually, I've become a much better arguer after being here for so long. Yet another benefit from posting on CP.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:23 AM
What about this sentence isn't clear?



That's directly from the study by the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences.

As the article mentions, the issue is correlation vs. causation. It's a scientific fact that murder rates are strongly correlated with ice cream sales. Should ice cream be banned?

Conclusive only means they can't say for certain one way or the other. Hence why there are a two different views.

DaFace
10-12-2011, 10:27 AM
Conclusive only means they can't say for certain one way or the other. Hence why there are a two different views.

I can live with that, though I'd point out that your original post in this thread didn't acknowledge that your statement was theory rather than fact. If it had, I never would have said anything in the first place.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:27 AM
Yeah, they were. No, they weren't. Marijuana never turned anybody into a scumbag or started a fight. You are the one with your head in a "whole", not us.

Dude, I get it, you like to smoke, it's your decision to do that. But please stop telling me what I have seen with my own eyes. I have seen family members who sold drugs get beat down for it. I had a student who was murdered in a small ozark town and burnt in a trunk of his car. He started out smoking weed and drinking per his best friend. His best friend also said they started doing harder drugs because they weren't getting high anymore. That is from personal experience. His friend went to rehab and hopefully changed his ways, but it's ok keep telling me what you think I know.

Fish
10-12-2011, 10:30 AM
Conclusive only means they can't say for certain one way or the other. Hence why there are a two different views.

Uhhhh.... no, not really. They said there is no conclusive evidence of it being true. Meaning there is no proof that it does. They are making their position quite clear, there is no "One way or another" regarding their results.

They didn't say there is no conclusive evidence either way. Read the quote again:

There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:32 AM
Uhhhh.... no, not really. They said there is no conclusive evidence of it being true. Meaning there is no proof that it does. They are making their position quite clear, there is no "One way or another" regarding their results.

They didn't say there is no conclusive evidence either way. Read the quote again:

Dude you are like arguing with my wife. Conclusive means that it can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. It doesn't matter which way you are arguing for or against.

Lono
10-12-2011, 10:33 AM
Prep is over, I got to get back to class.

Brock
10-12-2011, 10:34 AM
Dude, I get it, you like to smoke, it's your decision to do that. But please stop telling me what I have seen with my own eyes. I have seen family members who sold drugs get beat down for it. I had a student who was murdered in a small ozark town and burnt in a trunk of his car. He started out smoking weed and drinking per his best friend. His best friend also said they started doing harder drugs because they weren't getting high anymore. That is from personal experience. His friend went to rehab and hopefully changed his ways, but it's ok keep telling me what you think I know.

No, you don't get it. What I'm saying is, the people you are saying weed turned into scumbags were already scumbags. Drugs do not make you turn into a thief or a scumbag anymore than cheeseburgers do.

Otter
10-12-2011, 10:36 AM
I have had tons of friends who were perfectly normal dudes, who started smoking weed and drinking like fish who turned into scum bags. The facts and statistics back my views up, not yours.

Let me add that in College the majority of fights I saw were because of weed. Whether people were stealing stuff to sell to buy it, or stealing the weed to smoke it.

You're a school teacher that has "tons" of friends who fell victim to weed?

Funny, I was in a fraternity in college and could count on one hand (okay maybe two) the people that smoked weed and not one of them had any problem with it. In fact their all more successful today than those that didn't partake.

Maybe you should chose your friends better sport. I'm sure all those boys you speak of would be rocket scientists with a big house on the beach, reading books to orphans and finding a cure if cancer if it wasn't for marijuana.

I smell me some bullshit.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 10:38 AM
I don't know if I've posted in this thread or not.....but why does it have to be "OR"?

Why not do both?! It's my new favorite pass time. Drink enough to get a good buzz and then get high.

It's like the best of both worlds.

Ever watch football on weed AND alcohol? It's a whole new experience man....

Dr. Gigglepants
10-12-2011, 10:40 AM
That article is only backed up by the authors opinions of numbers. The key to that whole article that he completely dismisses is, "The idea that marijuana may be the first step in a longer career of drug use seems plausible at first: when addicts tell their histories, many begin with a story about marijuana. And there's a strong correlation between marijuana use and other drug use: a person who smokes marijuana is more than 104 times more likely to use cocaine than a person who never tries pot, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

People who use MJ are more likely to try drugs in general. That 104% stat should be expected. Of course if you've never tried MJ you're highly unlikely to snort fucking cocaine. I don't know about you all but me, and every single person I knew in HS started out drinking. It's funny how MJ is labeled the gateway drug, when alcohol is by far the bigger problem. I bet a lot of people out there don't even consider alcohol a drug.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 10:43 AM
Dude, I get it, you like to smoke, it's your decision to do that. But please stop telling me what I have seen with my own eyes. I have seen family members who sold drugs get beat down for it. I had a student who was murdered in a small ozark town and burnt in a trunk of his car. He started out smoking weed and drinking per his best friend. His best friend also said they started doing harder drugs because they weren't getting high anymore. That is from personal experience. His friend went to rehab and hopefully changed his ways, but it's ok keep telling me what you think I know.

That whole, "I dont get high anymore" line is a pretty lame excuse for doing harder drugs. I smoke on a daily basis and have been doing so for about....eh....6-7 years now, maybe.

I still get high and still have no desire to try anything harder. Same goes for my friends.

Sorry, I just don't buy into the "weed is a gateway drug" talk that some people spit up.

L.A. Chieffan
10-12-2011, 10:44 AM
People who drink water and breathe are 100% more likely to inject heroin than those who don't.

You cant argue with those numbers.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 10:50 AM
If you are going to compare red meat with drugs there is no reason for us to discuss it.

I guess I'll play, people can eat red meat and go drive. People can eat red meat and not want to steal, or beat someone's butt. There is zero comparison there. Eating red meat will only effect that person, no one else.

Yeah....I am not trying to pile on you or anything like that...but if you think weed makes people wanna go out and fight, then sorry man, you don't know what you're talking about.

Can't say I blame you though. If you've never tried it there is no way you could know any better. Too much misinformation out there.

The only major conflict I've ever had while high was whether or not I should get off my ass to get some snacks. Fighting is the LAST thing I wanna do while I am high.

NewChief
10-12-2011, 10:53 AM
Yeah....I am not trying to pile on you or anything like that...but if you think weed makes people wanna go out and fight, then sorry man, you don't know what you're talking about.

Can't say I blame you though. If you've never tried it there is no way you could know any better. Too much misinformation out there.

The only major conflict I've ever had while high was whether or not I should get off my ass to get some snacks. Fighting is the LAST thing I wanna do while I am high.

My main problem is that if he's spreading this type of disinformation to high school students as part of a drug education program, they're going to discount anything legitimate he has to say as well.

Dr. Gigglepants
10-12-2011, 10:57 AM
My main problem is that if he's spreading this type of disinformation to high school students as part of a drug education program, they're going to discount anything legitimate he has to say as well.

He has a curriculum though, can't really blame him for what he tells his students. It's the government that is spreading the disinformation.

Fish
10-12-2011, 11:03 AM
My main problem is that if he's spreading this type of disinformation to high school students as part of a drug education program, they're going to discount anything legitimate he has to say as well.

Yeah... there has to be a huge disconnect there. I can't imagine catching some high schooler behind the gym puffing a joint, and sitting him down and telling him that the weed is going to make him insane and turn him into a scumbag thieving drug addict. And then expecting him to listen to anything you have to say...

Otter
10-12-2011, 11:10 AM
Yeah... there has to be a huge disconnect there. I can't imagine catching some high schooler behind the gym puffing a joint, and sitting him down and telling him that the weed is going to make him insane and turn him into a scumbag thieving drug addict. And then expecting him to listen to anything you have to say...

And therein lies the problem with propaganda. Smart people one day start doing some thinking on their own and you'll be remembered as the elder who told him that beating off makes your hands furry and makes you go blind.

I'm still not shaving my hands and have 20/20 vision despite my best tries.

Lono
10-12-2011, 11:12 AM
My main problem is that if he's spreading this type of disinformation to high school students as part of a drug education program, they're going to discount anything legitimate he has to say as well.

Lol you have got to be kidding? Again it is your opinion that it is misinformation. The government says it is not misinformation, which is why it is in my curriculum. I have never had a kid say, you don't know what your talking about. Everyone of them see's the kids here who do drugs and that is better than anything I could tell them or teach them. We have the discussions in class.

Brock
10-12-2011, 11:15 AM
Lol you have got to be kidding? Again it is your opinion that it is misinformation. The government says it is not misinformation, which is why it is in my curriculum. I have never had a kid say, you don't know what your talking about. Everyone of them see's the kids here who do drugs and that is better than anything I could tell them or teach them. We have the discussions in class.

Well, if the government says it, it must be true. :clap:

Lono
10-12-2011, 11:16 AM
Well, if the government says it, it must be true. :clap:

I could say the same thing, If Brock says it, it must be true.

luv
10-12-2011, 11:17 AM
Lol you have got to be kidding? Again it is your opinion that it is misinformation. The government says it is not misinformation, which is why it is in my curriculum. I have never had a kid say, you don't know what your talking about. Everyone of them see's the kids here who do drugs and that is better than anything I could tell them or teach them. We have the discussions in class.

What about the "upper class" kids who get good grades that do it? Do you have class discussions about them, too? Those kids would find some other way of being slackers or acting out if marijuana didn't exist.

Lono
10-12-2011, 11:19 AM
What about the "upper class" kids who get good grades that do it? Do you have class discussions about them, too? Those kids would find some other way of being slackers or acting out if marijuana didn't exist.

Honestly luv, that makes zero since. Okay something so they wont get into trouble doing something else?

philfree
10-12-2011, 11:21 AM
Prep is over, I got to get back to class.

That's what alot of students say just after they got high between classes.

Brock
10-12-2011, 11:25 AM
I could say the same thing, If Brock says it, it must be true.

I don't really have the same track record of greed and deception as the government does, so no, you really can't say the same thing.

Pants
10-12-2011, 11:28 AM
It baffles me how misinformed a teacher can be in the subject they teach. You're blowing my mind with your ignorance, Lono.

BWillie
10-12-2011, 11:29 AM
I don't like cocaine, I just like the way it smells.

Lono
10-12-2011, 11:31 AM
Tell me what anything I have said is complete ignorance? Please show me with facts, not crap that says it's not "conclusive". Not opinions from marijuana users on this board. I was taught the things I'm teaching and every single drug program a teacher uses is taught the same thing. If you really think, I'm the only health teacher in the country teaching that marijuana and alcohol is bad for you, you need to crawl out of your hole.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 11:32 AM
Lol you have got to be kidding? Again it is your opinion that it is misinformation. The government says it is not misinformation, which is why it is in my curriculum. I have never had a kid say, you don't know what your talking about. Everyone of them see's the kids here who do drugs and that is better than anything I could tell them or teach them. We have the discussions in class.

You're wrong. Argue it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

Once these kids start experimenting, getting drunk and staying out late, which is inevitable, they will try it. And you'll be a liar.

MAYBE....if they realize that you were wrong about weed, then they may wonder what else you were wrong about?

I don't care what the government is telling you. YOU'RE WRONG.

Weed doesn't make you want to fight. It doesn't make you want to steal, rape, murder...fuck it doesn't even make you want to get off your couch.

YOU have been lied to.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 11:34 AM
Tell me what anything I have said is complete ignorance? Please show me with facts, not crap that says it's not "conclusive". Not opinions from marijuana users on this board. I was taught the things I'm teaching and every single drug program a teacher uses is taught the same thing. If you really think, I'm the only health teacher in the country teaching that marijuana and alcohol is bad for you, you need to crawl out of your hole.

Define bad.

Like Bad for your health? Well that's pretty fucking obvious.

Or do you mean that MJ is going to turn you into a child molesting crack head kinda bad?

luv
10-12-2011, 11:34 AM
Honestly luv, that makes zero since. Okay something so they wont get into trouble doing something else?

You said that your students see those who do drugs, and you have discussions in class. By "those students who do drugs", I assume you mean those who slack off in class or are known as the typical "stoners". I went to a high school where a majority of the students were rich kids. I knew several of those kids who were in weighted classes that smoked weed.

I am saying that, if marijuana didn't exist, those students who you label as "stoners" would find other ways of slacking off, not caring, or getting into trouble.

Weed, like alcohol, doesn't make you do anything you wouldn't normally do; it only enhances certain aspects of your personality.

My view point is that, if one is legal, then both should be legal. Also, if legal, neither should be legal for children. Either one done in excess is bad. It's all about moderation.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 11:36 AM
It baffles me how misinformed a teacher can be in the subject they teach. You're blowing my mind with your ignorance, Lono.

This.

It's so much better to not lie to these kids. It clearly doesn't work. A drug education class would be so much better if they were honest about what these drugs actually do.

BWillie
10-12-2011, 11:37 AM
Weed, like alcohol, doesn't make you do anything you wouldn't normally do; it only enhances certain aspects of your personality.



Huh? I don't smoke much pot, but alcohol certainly makes you do things you wouldn't originally do. Back when I was really young and stupid I was driving drunk, stopped at the police station which luckily was mainly empty, and pissed on it. WTF was I thinking? No idea.

Lono
10-12-2011, 11:38 AM
Define bad.

Like Bad for your health? Well that's pretty ****ing obvious.

Or do you mean that MJ is going to turn you into a child molesting crack head kinda bad?

I teach that marijuana is bad for you, period. I don't tell kids the stories I have told you guys. I teach that it's bad for you and what the short and long term effects are. Detoxing, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

philfree
10-12-2011, 11:38 AM
I teach that marijuana is bad for you, period. I don't tell kids the stories I have told you guys. I teach that it's bad for you and what the short and long term effects are. Detoxing, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

What are the long term effects?

luv
10-12-2011, 11:39 AM
Huh? I don't smoke much pot, but alcohol certainly makes you do things you wouldn't originally do. Back when I was really young and stupid I was driving drunk, stopped at the police station which luckily was mainly empty, and pissed on it. WTF was I thinking? No idea.

Alcohol made you do it? Or it relaxed your inhibitions, and you did something that you thought was daring and funny?

NewChief
10-12-2011, 11:41 AM
Lol you have got to be kidding? Again it is your opinion that it is misinformation. The government says it is not misinformation, which is why it is in my curriculum. I have never had a kid say, you don't know what your talking about. Everyone of them see's the kids here who do drugs and that is better than anything I could tell them or teach them. We have the discussions in class.

The government says that weed makes you fight?

philfree
10-12-2011, 11:42 AM
Huh? I don't smoke much pot, but alcohol certainly makes you do things you wouldn't originally do. Back when I was really young and stupid I was driving drunk, stopped at the police station which luckily was mainly empty, and pissed on it. WTF was I thinking? No idea.

Obviously you always wanted to give the police a golden shower. You were just to scared to do it until the alcohol lowered your inhibitions.

Brock
10-12-2011, 11:45 AM
I teach that marijuana is bad for you, period. I don't tell kids the stories I have told you guys. I teach that it's bad for you and what the short and long term effects are. Detoxing, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

It's fine, we understand that you are an instrument of government and are told what to tell kids. Just understand that what you're telling these kids is nonsense for the most part.

DaFace
10-12-2011, 11:45 AM
I teach that marijuana is bad for you, period. I don't tell kids the stories I have told you guys. I teach that it's bad for you and what the short and long term effects are. Detoxing, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I don't personally disagree with the idea of teaching kids that MJ is bad as long as it's on the same scale as booze. Both (IMO) are fine when used by responsible adults, but there are a lot of kids out there who are stupid with it.

That said, it's entirely possible for responsible people of all ages to partake in either and be just fine. Like others, I don't buy that a kid who drinks/smokes is necessarily any more or less likely to have behavioral problems or academic issues. More likely, kids with behavioral issues are more likely to break the law in the first place and, therefore, are more likely to drink or smoke than the "good" kids.

Lono
10-12-2011, 11:46 AM
The government says that weed makes you fight?

Did you read my above post, I teach kids that alcohol and marijuana can make you use bad judgement.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 11:47 AM
I teach that marijuana is bad for you, period. I don't tell kids the stories I have told you guys. I teach that it's bad for you and what the short and long term effects are. Detoxing, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

What do you mean "Bad" for you? How?

Are you honest with them? Do also share the positives? I don't think you do.

And they WILL find that shit out with or with out you. And when they do, it'll turn you and the government into liars.

We already know the government lies, but I don't like the idea of our kids not trusting their teachers.

You need to educate yourself better on this shit.

I am not telling you to change your views, but you need to know a lot more than you do.

These kids can go home, flip on their PS3s and and look at the Netflix Library and instantly have access to multiple documentaries that will teach them about the misconceptions associated with weed.

And if you think that half the kids in your class don't already know that then you're delusional.

Detoxing
10-12-2011, 11:50 AM
Did you read my above post, I teach kids that alcohol and marijuana can make you use bad judgement.

What does weed do?

What kind of bad decisions are you prone to make while high on weed? Serious question. Not trying to attack you, but I wanna know what the government is telling people.

The_Doctor10
10-12-2011, 11:52 AM
Dude, I get it, you like to smoke, it's your decision to do that. But please stop telling me what I have seen with my own eyes. I have seen family members who sold drugs get beat down for it. I had a student who was murdered in a small ozark town and burnt in a trunk of his car. He started out smoking weed and drinking per his best friend. His best friend also said they started doing harder drugs because they weren't getting high anymore. That is from personal experience. His friend went to rehab and hopefully changed his ways, but it's ok keep telling me what you think I know.

Sounds like your student was a loser idiot and if a plant that makes you silly, hungry and horny was what really set him down the dark path, then he was fucked no matter what. If it wasn't weed, it would've been something else; pixie sticks, glue, re-runs of Gossip Girl...

Yes, there are people who can't handle reality. But just as many people if not more have had their lives ruined by things like Vicodin, Oxys, etc and those come straight from a doctor.

Weed is perceived as a 'gateway drug' because, as was already mentioned, you have to buy it from people who have decided that its illegality is not enough to prevent them from selling it to you. And after you spend 20 minutes on Google and realize 'oh wait, people have been LYING TO ME my entire life about the affects of this plant' you no longer trust the systems in place. So when said scumbag offers you some cocaine or something else (Upselling exists everywhere, not just at Wal-Mart) people may think 'well what else were you lying about?'

There is an irrational fear of this plant that is far less harmful than many legal products. You as a high school health teacher, spouting this nonsense about the 'dangers' of marijuana, are part of the problem.

Oh, and can I just say, who gives a shit if it IS harmful? I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but there's population issues worldwide, we as a species are living too long and motherfuckers need to die. There's not enough space. Never mind that we're all going to die anyway... All we can do is decide how much we're going to enjoy the ride, and the ride is too short to waste with hangovers.

Lono
10-12-2011, 11:52 AM
I'm done, you guys are obviously smarter than I am. Using the government as a scape goat as why it's ok to smoke is a reach. If you think I'm going to stand up and tell kids it's ok to smoke weed because it makes you feel relaxed your crazy. I also teach kids they should eat fruits and vegetables and not eat a lot of junk food. I'm sure there are tons of people who eat junk food every day who are healthy as a horse. It doesn't mean I shouldn't teach them that eating too much is bad for you. I'm sure the same can be said for you and smoking mj. I hope you or anyone else never have to suffer from the decisions you make today.

philfree
10-12-2011, 11:55 AM
I'm done, you guys are obviously smarter than I am. Using the government as a scape goat as why it's ok to smoke is a reach. If you think I'm going to stand up and tell kids it's ok to smoke weed because it makes you feel relaxed your crazy. I also teach kids they should eat fruits and vegetables and not eat a lot of junk food. I'm sure there are tons of people who eat junk food every day who are healthy as a horse. It doesn't mean I shouldn't teach them that eating too much is bad for you. I'm sure the same can be said for you and smoking mj. I hope you or anyone else ever have to suffer from the decisions you make today.

You don't show them that old video of the guy getting high and then looking in the mirror and seeing a Warewolf do you? Please say you don't.

Pants
10-12-2011, 11:57 AM
Did you read my above post, I teach kids that alcohol and marijuana can make you use bad judgement.

Alcohol sure does. Marijuana absolutely does not. If anything, marijuana makes you more careful.

You honestly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to marijuana.

BWillie
10-12-2011, 11:57 AM
Alcohol made you do it? Or it relaxed your inhibitions, and you did something that you thought was daring and funny?

Didn't MAKE me do it, but I did something I never would have otherwise done.

Lono
10-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Marijuana effects coordination and distortions in the sense of time, vision, and hearing. It speeds your heart rate up and in the first hour of smoking marijuana could raise a users risk of a heart attack five times. Over the long haul it can cause psychotic symptoms and cause damage to the lungs and the heart and can reduce the body's ability to fight lung infections and illness.

According to a national Household Survey on Drug abuse, kids who frequently use marijuana are four times more likely to act violent or abusive and five more times likely to steal.

Alcohol is just as dangerous, they both should be outlawed.[/QUOTE]

I already posted several long term risks and no Phil I don't use that.

Pants
10-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Didn't MAKE me do it, but I did something I never would have otherwise done.

Yeah, it lowers your inhibitions which can lead to you doing stupid shit (because that usual check you have in your brain is gone).

NewChief
10-12-2011, 11:59 AM
Did you read my above post, I teach kids that alcohol and marijuana can make you use bad judgement.

Okay. I just have concerns, because I was raised with ideas like masturbation will make you blind, pot makes black men rape white women, and other BS. It didn't do me any good, and when I started finding out much of what I was taught was BS... I ended up going off the deep end for a while.

I suppose that's just a natural part of growing up, but it was exacerbated by the extreme disinformation I was given.