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SNR
11-21-2011, 11:15 PM
Ignoring his unimpressive W/L record as a head coach, it was apparent after tonight that the idiot has learned absolutely NOTHING about being a head coach in the NFL.

He knows nothing about gameday decisions. He goes for it on 4th down at times when the reward isn't worth the risks, and then turns into Herm's vagina when he should (like tonight in the first quarter).

Hiring Bill Muir was a fucking shitfest.

Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.

Not figuring out how to stop Tim fucking Tebow by simply PLAYING THE GODDAMN RUN.

Putting your team in the hands of a garbage player that not even amateur leagues wanted over a QB who could actually be better than feces

And there are so many more.

He's been at this position for three goddamn years, people. Most coaches, if they're any good, start to show flashes of brilliance by their 2nd year. In their 3rd year, they at the very least field a competitive team.

He's good at coaching and player development in the offseason? Newsflash: EVERY coach can find diamonds in the rough. Even Herm had a bunch.

Cassel is the first guy who needs to go. But Haley is a pretty fucking close second. I'll be pretty pissed if we keep this jackass around next year.

SNR
11-21-2011, 11:16 PM
And yes, this was a very important thread that needed to be started.

ChiefsrGood
11-21-2011, 11:18 PM
haley is as good as gone

Urc Burry
11-21-2011, 11:19 PM
I don't even know his name, but I saw Green Bay's offensive coordinator is looking for a HC job. Is he a fit at all?

Count Zarth
11-21-2011, 11:22 PM
We saw Herm Fucking Edwards and Chan Gailey coach up Tyler Thigpen down the stretch of a doomed season to the point where we didn't get blown out every week.

It's doubtful Todd Fucking Haley and Bill Muir can do the same with Tyler Palko at this juncture, despite the fact he's surrounded with a lot more talent.

SNR
11-21-2011, 11:22 PM
I don't even know his name, but I saw Green Bay's offensive coordinator is looking for a HC job. Is he a fit at all?
Make no mistake. That offense is pretty much all Mike McCarthy (when it comes to coaching, that is)

Plus this guy just looks like a dweeb

http://prod.static.packers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/GB/photos/persons/coach-cards/Philbin_Joe.jpg

Count Zarth
11-21-2011, 11:23 PM
I don't even know his name, but I saw Green Bay's offensive coordinator is looking for a HC job. Is he a fit at all?

Did we learn nothing from the Haley hire?

Hiring coordinators from offenses led by top-flight quarterbacks is dubious.

We would have been better off promoting Chan Gailey.

Urc Burry
11-21-2011, 11:24 PM
Make no mistake. That offense is pretty much all Mike McCarthy (when it comes to coaching, that is)

Plus this guy just looks like a dweeb

http://prod.static.packers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/GB/photos/persons/coach-cards/Philbin_Joe.jpg

ROFL . Mark him off the list

Count Zarth
11-21-2011, 11:25 PM
Make no mistake. That offense is pretty much all Mike McCarthy (when it comes to coaching, that is)

Plus this guy just looks like a dweeb

http://prod.static.packers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/GB/photos/persons/coach-cards/Philbin_Joe.jpg

So does McCarthy. Hell, he's borderline special needs in this photo:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mike+McCarthy+2011+NFC+Championship+Green+foKK-zcQYqOl.jpg

nose
11-21-2011, 11:27 PM
Good Thread! Yes we will continue to suck with that idiot at the helm. The only surprising part to me we didn't look this bad last year!!

Sutter Cane
11-21-2011, 11:30 PM
Good Thread! Yes we will continue to suck with that idiot at the helm. The only surprising part to me we didn't look this bad last year!!

We also didn't really play anyone last year.

Chief Roundup
11-21-2011, 11:30 PM
I do not think that Haley will get fired. I think Matt Cassel will be the starting QB next season. But I think we invest our 1st on a QB. I also think we make a couple of good acquisitions for the OLine. I also think a few weeks from now we will see some of our rookies gets some playing experience to use towards next season.

58kcfan89
11-21-2011, 11:35 PM
Yeah, I've been a Haley supporter up to this point. But now I'm totally cool if we fire this bozo. I don't think we will, but whatever...

I originally liked the idea of a guy who had no problems being a complete asshole (especially after Herm's "stand there & do nothing" approach on the sidelines), but it's pretty obvious that this team has no toughness. Hang tight for 30ish minutes, then fall apart. At least Herm's teams* waited until there were 30 seconds left to shit the bed.

This is to say nothing of his retarded playcalling decisions and stupid press conference quotes. I'm sure we could fill 100 pages of stupid shit he's said since he got here.




*Don't want Herm back. Just want Haley out sooner rather than later.

Chief Roundup
11-21-2011, 11:38 PM
Good Thread! Yes we will continue to suck with that idiot at the helm. The only surprising part to me we didn't look this bad last year!!

Last year we had Jamaal Charles. Probably best RB in the game. Last year we had Eric Berry. Top 5 safety in the league. Lasy year we had Tony Moeaki. Not only Cassels check down guy but he allowed Pope to stay in and block more on the Line. Last year we had Waters instead of Lilja. We took a step back instead of forward.

Lot of reasons we are not as good as last year. Biggest is we are missing our very best players.

BryanBusby
11-21-2011, 11:39 PM
I'll be happy if they replace Haley with Mike Zimmer, if they decide to make a move.

Halfcan
11-21-2011, 11:42 PM
Ignoring his unimpressive W/L record as a head coach, it was apparent after tonight that the idiot has learned absolutely NOTHING about being a head coach in the NFL.

He knows nothing about gameday decisions. He goes for it on 4th down at times when the reward isn't worth the risks, and then turns into Herm's vagina when he should (like tonight in the first quarter).

Hiring Bill Muir was a ****ing shitfest.

Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.

Not figuring out how to stop Tim ****ing Tebow by simply PLAYING THE GODDAMN RUN.

Putting your team in the hands of a garbage player that not even amateur leagues wanted over a QB who could actually be better than feces

And there are so many more.

He's been at this position for three goddamn years, people. Most coaches, if they're any good, start to show flashes of brilliance by their 2nd year. In their 3rd year, they at the very least field a competitive team.

He's good at coaching and player development in the offseason? Newsflash: EVERY coach can find diamonds in the rough. Even Herm had a bunch.

Cassel is the first guy who needs to go. But Haley is a pretty ****ing close second. I'll be pretty pissed if we keep this jackass around next year.

I couldnt agree more!!! His stoopid gamble that did not pay off was the Most retarded play I have Ever seen. We were playing descent and All the momentum went to the Pats with the fake kick off. How many times does this dipshit have to go for it to realize it is a High risk low payoff play.

Haley is the Worst coach I have Ever seen period!!

Brock
11-21-2011, 11:44 PM
I honestly don't care about the stupid trick plays, this team is just poorly coached. I don't see how any of the Haley defenders can look at this pile of crap, injuries or not, and honestly say that he knows wtf he's doing. And I actually like the guy, but let's call it what it is. This team doesn't even look like it's playing the same game as a team like NE.

Count Zarth
11-21-2011, 11:44 PM
We might get lucky if the Eagles fire Andy Reid.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-21-2011, 11:47 PM
We might get lucky if the Eagles fire Andy Reid.

Did he coach for Parcells or Belichick? No.

kcpasco
11-21-2011, 11:50 PM
We might get lucky if the Eagles fire Andy Reid.

Reid's Qb selections have been McNabb and Vick.

I want a real Qb for once.

Pestilence
11-21-2011, 11:51 PM
I'll be happy if they replace Haley with Mike Zimmer, if they decide to make a move.

This.

Pestilence
11-21-2011, 11:51 PM
Clean out the entire mess. Top down.

DeezNutz
11-21-2011, 11:52 PM
I honestly don't care about the stupid trick plays, this team is just poorly coached. I don't see how any of the Haley defenders can look at this pile of crap, injuries or not, and honestly say that he knows wtf he's doing. And I actually like the guy, but let's call it what it is. This team doesn't even look like it's playing the same game as a team like NE.

Hey, he coached up Charles. How this is said with a straight face, I don't know. Fumbles. Yeah! Inactive, yeah!

Good dude. Worse than Herm in terms of coaching ability.

nose
11-21-2011, 11:52 PM
Last year we had Jamaal Charles. Probably best RB in the game. Last year we had Eric Berry. Top 5 safety in the league. Lasy year we had Tony Moeaki. Not only Cassels check down guy but he allowed Pope to stay in and block more on the Line. Last year we had Waters instead of Lilja. We took a step back instead of forward.

Lot of reasons we are not as good as last year. Biggest is we are missing our very best players.
Absoloutely! I agree, but I still think there is more to it than just that.

We also didn't really play anyone last year.

IMO this is the #1 factor !!
Hard to say for certain till all our guys are %100 again, if that ever happens.

Count Zarth
11-21-2011, 11:53 PM
Reid's Qb selections have been McNabb and Vick.

I want a real Qb for once.

Honestly, you could do a lot worse than Donovan McNabb. The Eagles didn't win 10 games a year for a decade by accident.

Reid is a proven offensive coach/x's and o's guy. I'd welcome him after the shitfest we've endured the last six years.

And, he's never won a Super Bowl, so that might shut up the "the same coach has never won a Super Bowl with two different teams" crowd. :p

Halfcan
11-21-2011, 11:53 PM
I honestly don't care about the stupid trick plays, this team is just poorly coached. I don't see how any of the Haley defenders can look at this pile of crap, injuries or not, and honestly say that he knows wtf he's doing. And I actually like the guy, but let's call it what it is. This team doesn't even look like it's playing the same game as a team like NE.

:thumb: Obviously the way they came out of Camp and got destroyed in the Home Opener-proves your very point. Add to it losing to the Phins and Donks at home-with the Chiefs looking like they would rather be home baking cookies then hitting somebody-also proves this.

nose
11-21-2011, 11:54 PM
Worse than Herm in terms of coaching ability.



That might be getting a little too carried away no?

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-21-2011, 11:55 PM
Hey, he coached up Charles. How this is said with a straight face, I don't know. Fumbles. Yeah! Inactive, yeah!

Good dude. Worse than Herm in terms of coaching ability.

He "coached up" Bowe too. We'll ignore his first two years, focus on his massive decline Haley's first year, and then point to his fourth year as when he "got it" because of Haley, because correlation implies causation.

I forgot that he also coached up Hali, DJ, Flowers, Carr, Dorsey, Albert, etc.

He's done a laudable job...as a S&T coach.

Bugeater
11-21-2011, 11:57 PM
Clean out the entire mess. Top down.
We're going to fire Clark?

DeezNutz
11-21-2011, 11:58 PM
I don't know if there's been a tandem in NFL history that has come to an organization with more pomp and bravado than Pioli and Haley and failed as miserably.

We're not about the sizzle. Riiiiiggghhhtt, Scott. You two clowns are all fizzle. Shove your cliches right up your ass and use The Tree as the tamper.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 12:00 AM
Shove your cliches right up your ass and use The Tree as the tamper.

Who would have thought that "The Tree" would give our organization AIDS.

DeezNutz
11-22-2011, 12:00 AM
That might be getting a little too carried away no?

Playoff victory?

This was Haley's "Huard starting at Denver moment." Results about the same?

FAX
11-22-2011, 12:01 AM
I'm concerned.

FAX THE CONCERNED

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 12:01 AM
Clean out the entire mess. Top down.

Best we can hope for is Cassel or Haley gone in the immediate.

If we get REALLY lucky, both. Like, a car hits one of them in the offseason.

Pioli is here for at least two more seasons.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 12:01 AM
Playoff victory?

This was Haley's "Huard starting at Denver moment." Results about the same?

9-6, 34-3

about the same

tdurden58
11-22-2011, 12:04 AM
I hear the old AC at Penn State Sandusky is looking for work... prob be a better fit with this team. .

Halfcan
11-22-2011, 12:04 AM
I don't know if there's been a tandem in NFL history that has come to an organization with more pomp and bravado than Pioli and Haley and failed as miserably.

We're not about the sizzle. Riiiiiggghhhtt, Scott. You two clowns are all fizzle. Shove your cliches right up your ass and use The Tree as the tamper.

:thumb: I know and the smug look on Clarks face-the 3 amigos acted like they had already won multiple super bowls-lol

DeezNutz
11-22-2011, 12:06 AM
OK, so Pioli puked all over himself in the off-season and assembled a roster devoid of depth. Whether he was hand-tied by Hunt is immaterial. What we know is that someone is going to have to fall on this miserable sword, and this someone will almost certainly be Haley, who has done nothing to absolve himself of a good deal of blame for this team's ineptitude.

Next HC of the Chiefs? Jeff Fisher.

Why? Complete opposite. Defensive minded. Previous HCing experience. "Proven winner." Won't demand total control of the organization.

Pioli will go into full on save-his-own-ass mode and venture outside of The Tree to try to land a "sure thing."

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2011, 12:08 AM
If Pioli thought that he was going to be financially handcuffed by Hunt he would have never taken the offer. It's not like Cleveland didn't offer him the job.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 12:10 AM
Jeff Fisher would be an improvement. At this point, whatever perceived warts he has, are offset by the fact that he resembles Bill Walsh in comparison to the last six years.

Brock
11-22-2011, 12:12 AM
OK, so Pioli puked all over himself in the off-season and assembled a roster devoid of depth. Whether he was hand-tied by Hunt is immaterial. What we know is that someone is going to have to fall on this miserable sword, and this someone will almost certainly be Haley, who has done nothing to absolve himself of a good deal of blame for this team's ineptitude.

Next HC of the Chiefs? Jeff Fisher.

Why? Complete opposite. Defensive minded. Previous HCing experience. "Proven winner." Won't demand total control of the organization.

Pioli will go into full on save-his-own-ass mode and venture outside of The Tree to try to land a "sure thing."

The sad thing is, like a goddamn pavlovian dog, I find myself thinking Fisher looks good right now.

DeezNutz
11-22-2011, 12:12 AM
If Pioli thought that he was going to be financially handcuffed by Hunt he would have never taken the offer. It's not like Cleveland didn't offer him the job.

To a certain extent I agree. But I cannot help but compare him to Dayton Moore, who also, presumably, received certain assurances from Glass before accepting the job in KC. However, the situation on the ground sometimes doesn't mirror the sweet talk that occurs during recruiting visits, as it would be unlikely that payroll dollar amounts would make it into a contract.

Halfcan
11-22-2011, 12:14 AM
OK, so Pioli puked all over himself in the off-season and assembled a roster devoid of depth. Whether he was hand-tied by Hunt is immaterial. What we know is that someone is going to have to fall on this miserable sword, and this someone will almost certainly be Haley, who has done nothing to absolve himself of a good deal of blame for this team's ineptitude.

Next HC of the Chiefs? Jeff Fisher.

Why? Complete opposite. Defensive minded. Previous HCing experience. "Proven winner." Won't demand total control of the organization.

Pioli will go into full on save-his-own-ass mode and venture outside of The Tree to try to land a "sure thing."

??? what makes you think that?? Fisher was always a pretty solid coach-he never had much to work with but seemed to get the most out of the crap he had.

DeezNutz
11-22-2011, 12:14 AM
The sad thing is, like a goddamn pavlovian dog, I find myself thinking Fisher looks good right now.

There's no question. We'd be tougher, meaner, better prepared, and consistent playoff contenders.

And then promptly get bounced in the first round.

But, ****, that BBQ smells good.

DeezNutz
11-22-2011, 12:15 AM
??? what makes you think that?? Fisher was always a pretty solid coach-he never had much to work with but seemed to get the most out of the crap he had.

Complete guess, but based on the fact that the next hire is usually the opposite of what just failed.

FAX
11-22-2011, 12:16 AM
Pioli has repeatedly stated that Clark has not bogarted the checkbook. If you can believe him (and I don't know why we should) any austerity is, therefore, on his head.

The bad decisions are mounting up, that's for sure. After a loss like this, I have to keep reminding myself that we really are functioning without our best players, without a quarterback, and without any depth whatsoever. Those are all bad things, but Pioli could have and should have done something about two of those.

And, of course, that's not taking into account the somewhat bizarre draft choices we've made.

In year three of a rebuild, you should have something to show for it. We don't. But, not only that, we have once again become a league joke. I can only wonder if the local fans will finally begin boycotting ArrowPointingDownHead Stadium this year.

FAX

FAX
11-22-2011, 12:17 AM
Fisher worked for an owner that makes Clark look like a Black Friday shopper.

He's burned out, though. Really burned out.

FAX

DeezNutz
11-22-2011, 12:18 AM
Fisher worked for an owner that makes Clark look like a Black Friday shopper.

He's burned out, though. Really burned out.

FAX

Kind of wondered if you'd have some insight on him. No chance he's back on the sidelines soon?

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 12:19 AM
There's no question. We'd be tougher, meaner, better prepared, and be consistent playoff contenders.

And then promptly get bounced in the first round.

But, fuck, that BBQ smells good.

I don't necessarily disagree.

But post McNair, Fisher had to deal with a lot of meddling from his owner if memory serves.

He might do a lot better if he wasn't saddled with an owner who demanded he start a flava clown QB.

When Fisher had McNair that team won playoff games multiple seasons. When they went into the Vince Young/Kerry Collins merry-go-round, shit went south.

DeezNutz
11-22-2011, 12:20 AM
I don't necessarily disagree.

But post McNair, Fisher had to deal with a lot of meddling from his owner if memory serves.

He might do a lot better if he wasn't saddled with an owner who demanded he start a flava clown QB.

When Fisher had McNair that team won playoff games multiple seasons. When they went into the Vince Young/Kerry Collins merry-go-round, shit went south.

As opposed to a meddling GM who saddled the previous coach with a backup/starter (whom he knew "better than anyone")?

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 12:22 AM
As opposed to a meddling GM who saddled the previous coach with a backup/starter?

Point taken. But we have to hope that Fisher would be smart enough not to come here if he was saddled with Cassel.

FAX
11-22-2011, 12:22 AM
Kind of wondered if you'd have some insight on him. No chance he's back on the sidelines soon?

He's enjoying time out of the spotlight and between his hottie's legs.

I don't think he would be interested in another coaching job right now ... particularly if he couldn't make personnel decisions.

FAX

Chocolate Hog
11-22-2011, 12:23 AM
Do people really want Jeff Fisher? Me thinks he's done coaching.

DeezNutz
11-22-2011, 12:24 AM
Point taken. But we have to hope that Fisher would be smart enough not to come here if he was saddled with Cassel.

Yeah, just too gun-shy about the level of incompetence shown by Pioli to this point. No confidence.

Perhaps, if he would hire a more seasoned HC, one with a stronger voice that he would respect, the two could sort of balance each other out.

And then the whole scenario sounds a lot like Marty and Carl. LMAO.

Halfcan
11-22-2011, 12:26 AM
Complete guess, but based on the fact that the next hire is usually the opposite of what just failed.

:thumb: Actually that is a pretty damm good guess. Fisher was pretty respected among his players.

SNR
11-22-2011, 12:31 AM
I'll be happy if they replace Haley with Mike Zimmer, if they decide to make a move.I just realized his son is already linebackers coach with this team. Talk about smooth transition

FAX
11-22-2011, 12:32 AM
It's sad to see this thing go so badly at this point.

I don't mind losing on the road to the Pats ... most teams do. It's nothing to be ashamed of. And, to be perfectly honest, we looked pretty damn good for the first 20 minutes or so.

What bothers me is that, as the game unfolds, we don't seem to respond well to what the other team decides to do ... either on offense or defense. No adjustments. No counter-strategy. No chess match.

I know that a lot of times a team is handicapped when it comes to in-game adjustments due to personnel limitations (and we have many this year), but it seems like when the enemy figures out our plan, we're done. And it doesn't seem to matter much who we're playing.

I'm trying really hard not to overreact to this deal, but I have to honestly admit that Haley looked a little lost out there. I feel badly for Palko, too. The little bastard went out there and gave it everything he had and got smushed in return.

The thing that pisses me off is the fact that this is year 3 of this regime and, as of today, we remain the laughing stock of the entire league. A joke. The ugly, little, wimp kid who was born with a wedgie.

As a long-time, loyal fan, that pisses me off. So, I don't really care if they chop off Pioli's head or Haley's dick so long as they figure out how to get this team on top which is what the fans deserve.

FAX

BigMeatballDave
11-22-2011, 12:34 AM
I don't really care.

Until we get a good QB in here, it's going to be the same old shit.

This offense reminds me of the '92 team with Dave Krieg

FAX
11-22-2011, 12:35 AM
I don't really care.

Until we get a good QB in here, it's going to be the same old shit.

This offense reminds me of the '92 team with Dave Krieg

It does.

And '92 reminds you of '86 which reminds you of '79, etc., etc.

I sense a pattern emerging.

FAX

Chocolate Hog
11-22-2011, 12:35 AM
The retread makes sense I can't think of too many guys from the tree who are qualified coaches: Bowles, Ferentz, the current Pats OC?

SNR
11-22-2011, 12:36 AM
Rob Ryan makes the most sense at this point. I'm not sure if he'd be as good as his brother, but at least he yells a lot and hates people. Also, I'm sure there are a bunch of teams out there that will offer him a position.

Chocolate Hog
11-22-2011, 12:38 AM
Rob Ryan makes the most sense at this point. I'm not sure if he'd be as good as his brother, but at least he yells a lot and hates people. Also, I'm sure there are a bunch of teams out there that will offer him a position.

Please no.

SNR
11-22-2011, 12:38 AM
Greg Manusky would be an intriguing hire. He's inexperienced, but it shouldn't be too hard to lure him back to KC with our smells-like-BBQ parking lot.

Probably knows just as little about coaching as Haley, but he appears to learn quickly. He at least is able to do shit with the talent he has in San Fran.

BigMeatballDave
11-22-2011, 12:40 AM
It does.

And '92 reminds you of '86 which reminds you of '79, etc., etc.

I sense a pattern emerging.

FAX

A pattern of shitty quarterbacks? No way...

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 12:42 AM
Greg Manusky would be an intriguing hire. He's inexperienced, but it shouldn't be too hard to lure him back to KC with our smells-like-BBQ parking lot.

Probably knows just as little about coaching as Haley, but he appears to learn quickly. He at least is able to do shit with the talent he has in San Fran.

He's currently coordinating a shit defense.

Chocolate Hog
11-22-2011, 12:45 AM
Manusky has been an awful coach.

the Talking Can
11-22-2011, 05:50 AM
we get ass pounded more than [insert name of female actress, pop singer, porn star here]...

BoneKrusher
11-22-2011, 05:58 AM
Improving this team:
getting a real QB would fix a lot of our problems.

(i still think Haley has no clue as to how to prepare the team for gameday tho)

bevischief
11-22-2011, 06:03 AM
Pats have had what 41 different starters this year and are still competitive this and something like 14 or 15 were undrafted free agents most of them starting this year...

Bane
11-22-2011, 06:14 AM
Pats have had what 41 different starters this year and are still competitive this and something like 14 or 15 were undrafted free agents most of them starting this year...

BB smiles.

King_Chief_Fan
11-22-2011, 06:19 AM
Greg Manusky would be an intriguing hire. He's inexperienced, but it shouldn't be too hard to lure him back to KC with our smells-like-BBQ parking lot.

Probably knows just as little about coaching as Haley, but he appears to learn quickly. He at least is able to do shit with the talent he has in San Fran.

you must be joking...you are right about one thing, he knows about as little as Haley.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-22-2011, 06:23 AM
I like Haley. I don't like his offensive coordinator. I wonder if he can get a good offensive coordinator that he can work with.

I think Cassel is a decent QB that has a crappy line, a limited running game, and has had five OC's in four years.

Not exactly the winning formulat for a QB.

I expect that Cassel will be back next year. I think the Chiefs will quit as they go down the stretch. It is one thing to continue to play hard when you weren't expected to do anything.

But, they won the division last year. Then, they went 0-3 and lost three of their best young players. Only to come back to lead the division.... to then lose three straight games and the starting QB.

I expect them to play hard Sunday Night because it is a Prime Time game.... but after that, I will not be surprised to see them start to play a little less hard each week.

If that happens, Haley is gone. I still expect Cassel to be here.

GloryDayz
11-22-2011, 06:26 AM
Clark got to the office early this morning in Fiji and is looking into alternatives to make his team better...

http://www.secretcache.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_2_14.jpg

SenselessChiefsFan
11-22-2011, 06:26 AM
Pats have had what 41 different starters this year and are still competitive this and something like 14 or 15 were undrafted free agents most of them starting this year...

It is one thing to lose role players. It is different when you lose the best players on the team.

There is a reason their defense is mediocre at best. The offense is what bails them out and they haven't lost any 'stars' on that side of the ball.

Additionally, Tom Brady hides a lot of flaws.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 06:26 AM
The retread makes sense I can't think of too many guys from the tree who are qualified coaches: Bowles, Ferentz, the current Pats OC?

I'm a Hawkeye fan and I don't want Ferentz anywhere NEAR this team. Seriously.

The Bad Guy
11-22-2011, 06:27 AM
I don't want another hotshot flavor of the minute coordinator.

Rob Ryan might be different though. Has ties to Pioli. He's been successful more than 3 months.

The Bad Guy
11-22-2011, 06:27 AM
I'm a Hawkeye fan and I don't want Ferentz anywhere NEAR this team. Seriously.

HE HAS RISEN.

The Bad Guy
11-22-2011, 06:28 AM
The responsibility of the HC is to hire a capable staff. Haley needs to go simply based on the fact that he can't get along with anyone offensively.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-22-2011, 06:31 AM
The responsibility of the HC is to hire a capable staff. Haley needs to go simply based on the fact that he can't get along with anyone offensively.

This is a great point.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 06:34 AM
The responsibility of the HC is to hire a capable staff. Haley needs to go simply based on the fact that he can't get along with anyone offensively.

The offensive "staff" has Pioli's fingerprints all over it.

Don't get me wrong, Haley shouldn't be "excused".

I think the whole lot of them need to go.

Deberg_1990
11-22-2011, 06:38 AM
I actually thought Haley was coaching last night better than he has in alot of games this year, meaning he was back to his old agressive ways. Isnt that what alot of fans liked about him? Alot of critisism of him this season was that he has gone soft. Mellinger was saying that he took over playcalling duties last night as well.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-22-2011, 06:44 AM
The offensive "staff" has Pioli's fingerprints all over it.

Don't get me wrong, Haley shouldn't be "excused".

I think the whole lot of them need to go.

Haley ran off Weis, a competent coordinator. Haley couldn't work with Gailey. I don't think that Gailey had any ties to Pioli, though I could be wrong.

Haley has picked a yes man to be his coordinator. That doesn't seem like Pioli's handpicked guy.

I think Haley has to grow up a little and be confident enough to work with other competent coaches.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-22-2011, 06:44 AM
I actually thought Haley was coaching last night better than he has in alot of games this year, meaning he was back to his old agressive ways. Isnt that what alot of fans liked about him? Alot of critisism of him this season was that he has gone soft. Mellinger was saying that he took over playcalling duties last night as well.

That at least explains why they actually got the play in quickly.

suds79
11-22-2011, 06:46 AM
I like Todd but the things I'm having a hard time getting past are...

- The approach to this season with the (I'm smarter than everybody else attitude) which ended in disaster.

- The constant shuffling of OCs because he can't get along with anybody

- And when he could just step up and put it on him, he says "Bill Muir is the playcaller". That was a ch!ckensh!t move IMO.

If you could tell me we could get Jeff Fisher? I'd take him in a heartbeat. But considering I think Scott would only hire one of his buddies or some no name because he wants to be the man in KC, I don't see the point. So basically Scott is just as much to blame for the mess we're in than Todd. Probably more.

memyselfI
11-22-2011, 06:47 AM
The responsibility of the HC is to hire a capable staff. Haley needs to go simply based on the fact that he can't get along with anyone offensively.

I'm not sure there are any good ones out there who would want to work with him. I agree with you.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 06:54 AM
Haley ran off Weis, a competent coordinator. Haley couldn't work with Gailey. I don't think that Gailey had any ties to Pioli, though I could be wrong.

Haley has picked a yes man to be his coordinator. That doesn't seem like Pioli's handpicked guy.

I think Haley has to grow up a little and be confident enough to work with other competent coaches.

Weis LEFT. How many times does that have to be said? Weis went to coach his son and look how that turned out.

Haley should have never had to work with Gailey AT ALL. The whole coaching staff should have been gone, period. Clark Hunt asked Haley to give Gailey a chance and he did. Haley should have told Hunt no and been done with it. As it is, Haley takes the bullet for Hunt's loyalty to stupidity.

I think Haley needs to be fired.

That way we can bring in Josh McDaniels to hold Cassel's hand AGAIN and he can fail, AGAIN.

Dragonocho
11-22-2011, 06:55 AM
Haley looked like he's lost this team of backups last night. I think a mercy firing is in order. I have no clue who could work with this team this year and if we do not get a good QB in next season ditto for next year.

the Talking Can
11-22-2011, 06:58 AM
Clark got to the office early this morning in Fiji and is looking into alternatives to make his team better...

http://www.secretcache.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_2_14.jpg

with giant transvestites?

penguinz
11-22-2011, 07:00 AM
So does McCarthy. Hell, he's borderline special needs in this photo:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mike+McCarthy+2011+NFC+Championship+Green+foKK-zcQYqOl.jpgHe doesn't even realize his neck is on fire.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 07:02 AM
Haley looked like he's lost this team of backups last night. I think a mercy firing is in order. I have no clue who could work with this team this year and if we do not get a good QB in next season ditto for next year.

We've got the perfect guy already on the staff. Zorn has already been a complete failure as a HC...

kysirsoze
11-22-2011, 07:22 AM
I understand the sentiment, but considering the huge disadvantages he's faced this year, I'm gonna have to withhold judgement. The injuries crippled both sides of the ball, the lockout screwed the preseason (although I concede he didn't do much with what he got). Pioli has refused to address the QB issue.

I still think Haley has a shot to be a really good coach. I realize it's looking more and more like he won't be doing it here if he does it at all. I'm just saying I'd like to give him another year or two with a decent QB and an even relatively healthy team.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 07:33 AM
I understand the sentiment, but considering the huge disadvantages he's faced this year, I'm gonna have to withhold judgement. The injuries crippled both sides of the ball, the lockout screwed the preseason (although I concede he didn't do much with what he got). Pioli has refused to address the QB issue.

I still think Haley has a shot to be a really good coach. I realize it's looking more and more like he won't be doing it here if he does it at all. I'm just saying I'd like to give him another year or two with a decent QB and an even relatively healthy team.

I actually like what Haley did in the preseason. It didn't work no, but this was an offseason like never before and he was willing to take a risk and go against the conventional NFL wisdom. I like that.

kysirsoze
11-22-2011, 07:35 AM
I actually like what Haley did in the preseason. It didn't work no, but this was an offseason like never before and he was willing to take a risk and go against the conventional NFL wisdom. I like that.

Oh, I agreed at the time, so I'm not second guessing. It just didn't seem to work out. (Assuming a more conventional approach wouldn't have ended up worse somehow)

Chiefnj2
11-22-2011, 07:36 AM
Weis LEFT. How many times does that have to be said? Weis went to coach his son and look how that turned out.

Haley should have never had to work with Gailey AT ALL. The whole coaching staff should have been gone, period. Clark Hunt asked Haley to give Gailey a chance and he did. Haley should have told Hunt no and been done with it. As it is, Haley takes the bullet for Hunt's loyalty to stupidity.

I think Haley needs to be fired.

That way we can bring in Josh McDaniels to hold Cassel's hand AGAIN and he can fail, AGAIN.

Weis' son is an undergrad waterboy on the team. Weis isn't coaching him. Weis and Haley couldn't co-exist because they both have brash, f you personalities.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 07:46 AM
Weis' son is an undergrad waterboy on the team. Weis isn't coaching him. Weis and Haley couldn't co-exist because they both have brash, f you personalities.

Weis' son is angling for a Graduate position which generally means coaching opportunities in the future. Weis himself said that's why he was leaving.

We both know about the personalities. But to say that Haley "ran him off" is speculation and that's it.

dallaschiefsfan
11-22-2011, 07:51 AM
The offensive "staff" has Pioli's fingerprints all over it.

Don't get me wrong, Haley shouldn't be "excused".

I think the whole lot of them need to go.

This. Pioli wants his head coach to fit a certain role on the team. If Haley began coaching as an "OC-first" head coach, things might have been different.

Some HC's are game-planners/managers (think Marty). Others are coordinators that hire other coaches that excel as planners/managers (think McCarthy). Still others are team-assemblers that manage the pieces, but are generally hands off (think Vermeil). Each type has won championships.

It seems to me that Pioli wants Haley to be the first type...because that seems to fit the Parcells/Belichick mold. This is wrong-headed. Haley should be calling plays with a staff that can competently game-plan and manage. If Mellinger is correct, I hope last night is the beginning of the end of Muir as OC.

IMO, the biggest cause for Haley's deficiencies in his first year while calling the plays was that he was also expected to game plan/manage the team as well...with a below-average QB while also installing a post-Gailey offense. This entire approach to what a HC should do has never played to Haley's strengths, IMO.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 07:53 AM
This. Pioli wants his head coach to fit a certain role on the team. If Haley began coaching as an "OC-first" head coach, things might have been different.

Some HC's are game-planners/managers (think Marty). Others are coordinators that hire other coaches that excel as planners/managers (think McCarthy). Still others are team-assemblers that manage the pieces, but are generally hands off (think Vermeil). Each type has won championships.

It seems to me that Pioli wants Haley to be the first type...because that seems to fit the Parcells/Belichick mold. This is wrong-headed. Haley should be calling plays with a staff that can competently game-plan and manage. If Mellinger is correct, I hope last night is the beginning of the end of Muir as OC.

IMO, the biggest cause for Haley's deficiencies in his first year while calling the plays was that he was also expected to game plan/manage the team as well...with a below-average QB while also installing a post-Gailey offense. This entire approach to what a HC should do has never played to Haley's strengths, IMO.

I honestly think last year's "success" was more about Weis' HEAD COACHING experience than about Weis' playcalling "genious".

dirk digler
11-22-2011, 08:15 AM
If Pioli thought that he was going to be financially handcuffed by Hunt he would have never taken the offer. It's not like Cleveland didn't offer him the job.

I don't know how else you can explain it though. Piolo acknowledged in the book that the roster has a ton of holes in it yet they didn't really address very many of them.

I guess if they are going to go the route of just using the draft almost exclusively it is going to take at least 5 years and that is if they hit on every pick which of course they haven't.

dallaschiefsfan
11-22-2011, 08:19 AM
I honestly think last year's "success" was more about Weis' HEAD COACHING experience than about Weis' playcalling "genious".

Probably. Or the fact that Haley had some competent game planning/managing coordinators that worked well together. Personally, I don't think we see a dropoff with Haley as OC. But we lose any advantage we have with Haley as OC if he's expected to game plan the whole team. That's simply not his strength. He played the role ADEQUATELY last year and was exposed in the playoffs (not that Cassell wasn't a huge part of that as well).

This team needs a solid group of planners/managers on the coaching staff (not Muir types!) that allow Haley to lead from his strengths as OC and motivator. If Haley truly has 100% control of coach hiring, then that's on him. I suspect Pioli has more control than what's reported.

DTLB58
11-22-2011, 08:21 AM
I think they will let Todd coach out his contract, get everyone back from IR next year and give it one more go.

I always have been a Haley supporter but am losing faith fast. Just seems like there are a lot of other teams in the NFL with less doing better.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 08:23 AM
I'd rather see Haley as OC and somebody else as HC.

I don't know, I like Haley. I think he has a few things that could make him a successful coach in this league.

But this is awful and I just think it needs to purged.

royr17
11-22-2011, 08:24 AM
Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.

If we were to replace them, who would we replace them with, the only active players we have on the roster other than the starters are Rodney Hudson, Jared Gaither, and Steve Maneri, so again I ask who would you replace them with ?

jspchief
11-22-2011, 08:32 AM
I'd rather see Haley as OC and somebody else as HC.

I don't know, I like Haley. I think he has a few things that could make him a successful coach in this league.

But this is awful and I just think it needs to purged.I hated the Haley hire at the time. He's done some things to win me over.

However, like I said in the coaching thread I started a few weeks back, he appears to be in over his head as a HC. Perhaps with some quality veteran coordinators that are capable of guiding Haley, he can succeed right now.

I think the truly great coaches have gone over game time scenarios so many times on paper, in their head, and in practice that making the right decision becomes instinct. Taking last night's game as an example, the choice to not go for it on 4th and short in NE territory, followed by going for an onside kick. The guys that truly understand what they want to do know to choose that 4th down chance in lieu of attempting an onside that was clearly planned.

I wouldn't be surprised if Haley becomes a good HC somewhere down the line, but he doesn't have a HC mindset yet.

GloryDayz
11-22-2011, 08:43 AM
Ignoring his unimpressive W/L record as a head coach, it was apparent after tonight that the idiot has learned absolutely NOTHING about being a head coach in the NFL.

He knows nothing about gameday decisions. He goes for it on 4th down at times when the reward isn't worth the risks, and then turns into Herm's vagina when he should (like tonight in the first quarter).

Hiring Bill Muir was a ****ing shitfest.

Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.

Not figuring out how to stop Tim ****ing Tebow by simply PLAYING THE GODDAMN RUN.

Putting your team in the hands of a garbage player that not even amateur leagues wanted over a QB who could actually be better than feces

And there are so many more.

He's been at this position for three goddamn years, people. Most coaches, if they're any good, start to show flashes of brilliance by their 2nd year. In their 3rd year, they at the very least field a competitive team.

He's good at coaching and player development in the offseason? Newsflash: EVERY coach can find diamonds in the rough. Even Herm had a bunch.

Cassel is the first guy who needs to go. But Haley is a pretty ****ing close second. I'll be pretty pissed if we keep this jackass around next year.

Me too, he sucks at golf too!

lcarus
11-22-2011, 08:50 AM
I'm down on Haley right now too man. That 4th and 1 in the 1st quarter really really pissed me off, among other things. To be fair though, he's been taking Pioli's chicken shit and trying to make chicken salad out of it. The problem is, we're not doing better than we should be doing. What I mean is - we're bad - but a good coach could make us a little better than this.

Okie_Apparition
11-22-2011, 08:55 AM
If Haley is the dead man walking, the media has played him out to be. There is no point getting personnel that fits his scheme. When the next HC may go in another direction with personnel needs.

Then again, he should have been canned already instead of wasting a year

Chiefs Pantalones
11-22-2011, 08:56 AM
I just want this team wiped out, everyone including the head coach, except for the good players obviously. Pioli isn't going anywhere though. I have never wanted to give up on a regime so fast since the Herm days. And, sadly, that wasn't that long ago. One day we'll get it right.

Mr. Laz
11-22-2011, 08:56 AM
Weis' son is angling for a Graduate position which generally means coaching opportunities in the future. Weis himself said that's why he was leaving.

We both know about the personalities. But to say that Haley "ran him off" is speculation and that's it.

saying that Weis took a 5 million dollar pay cut to go work with his son is JUST as speculative ... if not more so.

This son stuff at florida is just something people say to try and make themselves feel better about Haley.

Mr. Laz
11-22-2011, 08:56 AM
wow ... where have i heard all this stuff before?

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 08:57 AM
I hated the Haley hire at the time. He's done some things to win me over.

However, like I said in the coaching thread I started a few weeks back, he appears to be in over his head as a HC. Perhaps with some quality veteran coordinators that are capable of guiding Haley, he can succeed right now.

I think the truly great coaches have gone over game time scenarios so many times on paper, in their head, and in practice that making the right decision becomes instinct. Taking last night's game as an example, the choice to not go for it on 4th and short in NE territory, followed by going for an onside kick. The guys that truly understand what they want to do know to choose that 4th down chance in lieu of attempting an onside that was clearly planned.

I wouldn't be surprised if Haley becomes a good HC somewhere down the line, but he doesn't have a HC mindset yet.

Once again you pretty well summed up how I feel about it.

lcarus
11-22-2011, 08:58 AM
wow ... where have i heard all this stuff before?

Chiefs Planet

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 08:59 AM
saying that Weis took a 5 million dollar pay cut to go work with his son is JUST as speculative ... if not more so.

This son stuff at florida is just something people say to try and make themselves feel better about Haley.

Except that Weis said that he was leaving to go be with his son. I guess the guy is a liar...

the Talking Can
11-22-2011, 09:00 AM
Except that Weis said that he was leaving to go be with his son. I guess the guy is a liar...

politicians do it all the time

"i'm leaving to spend more time with my family..."

kysirsoze
11-22-2011, 09:01 AM
saying that Weis took a 5 million dollar pay cut to go work with his son is JUST as speculative ... if not more so.

This son stuff at florida is just something people say to try and make themselves feel better about Haley.

Except for that's what he said multiple times. In fact he refuted the claim that his relationship with Haley was his reason for leaving. You can choose not to believe him but that's far more speculative than believing one of the few people who had any first hand knowledge of the situation.

Okie_Apparition
11-22-2011, 09:04 AM
How come the mighty Weis made Croyle look even worse
The Baltimore Croyle(Haley) vs the San Diego Croyle(Weis) was quite a drop off

kysirsoze
11-22-2011, 09:04 AM
politicians do it all the time

"i'm leaving to spend more time with my family..."

And people choose to believe the more scandalous story all the time as well. There were never any credible sources cited that I saw to support the story of Weis leaving because of Haley, but people jumped on board with it as soon as the first hack writer spit it out.

Pioli hates Haley, too. Haven't you heard? That's why he's still the HC when most of the media thinks he should have been fired weeks ago.

Mr. Laz
11-22-2011, 09:07 AM
Except for that's what he said multiple times. In fact he refuted the claim that his relationship with Haley was his reason for leaving. You can choose not to believe him but that's far more speculative than believing one of the few people who had any first hand knowledge of the situation.
what else is he going to say?

Is he going to tell every employer out there that he quit because he couldn't get along? Is he going to 'air dirty laundry' and Pioli and every other GM know that he can't keep his mouth shut about internal issues?

I bet you believe the 'dreaded vote of confidence' every time too.

keep defending your boy though ...

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 09:08 AM
politicians do it all the time

"i'm leaving to spend more time with my family..."

And people automatically jump to the opposite conclusion all the time too...

My point is NOT that Weis definitively left because he wanted to go to Florida.

It's that there's ZERO proof that Haley "ran him off".

Reality is that he left and we have no idea in the end why he did. It's ALL speculation.

kysirsoze
11-22-2011, 09:09 AM
what else is he going to say?

Is he going to tell every employer out there that he quit because he couldn't get along? Is he going to 'air dirty laundry' and Pioli and every other GM know that he can't keep his mouth shut about internal issues?

I bet you believe the 'dreaded vote of confidence' every time too.

keep defending your boy though ...

I'm not saying it's impossible. You said the story that everyone involved has told is more speculative than something thought up by a sports columnist. That's outrageous.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 09:10 AM
I'm not saying it's impossible. You said the story that everyone involved has told is more speculative than something thought up by a sports columnist. That's outrageous.

Haley ran him off. That's the only possible conclusion. Keep defending your boyfriend though!

Mr. Laz
11-22-2011, 09:11 AM
I'm not saying it's impossible.
progress

Chiefnj2
11-22-2011, 09:13 AM
politicians do it all the time

"i'm leaving to spend more time with my family..."

Haley was upset that Weis had a "wide stance" when using the stall next to him.

kysirsoze
11-22-2011, 09:13 AM
progress

Not really. Never said it was.

SNR
11-22-2011, 09:53 AM
I hated the Haley hire at the time. He's done some things to win me over.

However, like I said in the coaching thread I started a few weeks back, he appears to be in over his head as a HC. Perhaps with some quality veteran coordinators that are capable of guiding Haley, he can succeed right now.

I think the truly great coaches have gone over game time scenarios so many times on paper, in their head, and in practice that making the right decision becomes instinct. Taking last night's game as an example, the choice to not go for it on 4th and short in NE territory, followed by going for an onside kick. The guys that truly understand what they want to do know to choose that 4th down chance in lieu of attempting an onside that was clearly planned.

I wouldn't be surprised if Haley becomes a good HC somewhere down the line, but he doesn't have a HC mindset yet.That's the thing. You'd think he'd show SOME progress in three years.

He hasn't. What has he improved upon as a coach? Nothing. He still makes idiot decisions on gameday (just like Herm). He still depends on the offseason to look good (just like Herm). And he sounds like a babbling idiot at press conferences (just like Herm).

Guys, Haley IS Herm. They're the same goddamn coach.

Dayze
11-22-2011, 09:54 AM
just heard a stat.
Chiefs have beaten 3 teams with winning records under the Pioli/Haley regime; and in each one of them there was a return for a touchdown (I think I heard that part right).

sad.

BigRichard
11-22-2011, 10:26 AM
I have been walking the fence on him since the beginning of the year but I am on board now. Haley needs to go.

Pestilence
11-22-2011, 10:32 AM
saying that Weis took a 5 million dollar pay cut to go work with his son is JUST as speculative ... if not more so.

This son stuff at florida is just something people say to try and make themselves feel better about Haley.

It's not like Weis doesn't have money. It wouldn't be unheard of for Weis to quit and go work with his son. The guy values family more than anything.

Fish
11-22-2011, 10:39 AM
That's the thing. You'd think he'd show SOME progress in three years.

He hasn't. What has he improved upon as a coach? Nothing. He still makes idiot decisions on gameday (just like Herm). He still depends on the offseason to look good (just like Herm). And he sounds like a babbling idiot at press conferences (just like Herm).

Guys, Haley IS Herm. They're the same goddamn coach.

BS.... Haley is an angry white dude. HUGE difference...

Dartgod
11-22-2011, 10:48 AM
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.

Chiefnj2
11-22-2011, 10:51 AM
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.

It's up to him to insist that he gets one.

FAX
11-22-2011, 10:57 AM
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.

I could not agree more, Mr. Dartgod. So, I'm going into max-agreement mode.

FAX

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 11:04 AM
It's up to him to insist that he gets one.

He should have insisted on one in 2009 when he got here.

He won't get the chance to decide on the next one and I can't say I'm too sorry about that...

thurman merman
11-22-2011, 11:23 AM
Ignoring his unimpressive W/L record as a head coach, it was apparent after tonight that the idiot has learned absolutely NOTHING about being a head coach in the NFL.

He knows nothing about gameday decisions. He goes for it on 4th down at times when the reward isn't worth the risks, and then turns into Herm's vagina when he should (like tonight in the first quarter).

Hiring Bill Muir was a ****ing shitfest.

Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.

Not figuring out how to stop Tim ****ing Tebow by simply PLAYING THE GODDAMN RUN.

Putting your team in the hands of a garbage player that not even amateur leagues wanted over a QB who could actually be better than feces

And there are so many more.

He's been at this position for three goddamn years, people. Most coaches, if they're any good, start to show flashes of brilliance by their 2nd year. In their 3rd year, they at the very least field a competitive team.

He's good at coaching and player development in the offseason? Newsflash: EVERY coach can find diamonds in the rough. Even Herm had a bunch.

Cassel is the first guy who needs to go. But Haley is a pretty ****ing close second. I'll be pretty pissed if we keep this jackass around next year.

I'm with you on this one. I have been a huge Haley supporter but he just continues to make head-scratching decisions that an NFL coach should not make. Why do you punt on 4th and inches from inside the 40 at New England when the season is on the line? Why do you then proceed to kick an onside kick? Completely unacceptable levels of retardation last night.

BoneKrusher
11-22-2011, 11:24 AM
It's up to him to insist that he gets one.

:thumb:

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 11:26 AM
It's up to him to insist that he gets one.

Do you really think he had the power? Doesn't it seem pretty clear that Pioli was hell-bent on doing things his way, given that they are built in the exact model of the Patriots of old?

This isn't like Thomas Dimitroff, who built the scheme around Mike Smith. This is about Pioli forcing pieces of the puzzle onto Haley. Remember we heard rumors that Weis was never high on Cassel? How much more can you ask of your coaches if two bullheaded guys can't convince the GM to change his mind?

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 11:29 AM
I'm with you on this one. I have been a huge Haley supporter but he just continues to make head-scratching decisions that an NFL coach should not make. Why do you punt on 4th and inches from inside the 40 at New England when the season is on the line? Why do you then proceed to kick an onside kick? Completely unacceptable levels of retardation last night.

Question... do you think he does these things with a good QB?

Notice how we didn't attempt many onsides kicks last year. It seems to me that Haley knew his team was a complete longshot and the only shot at winning was to take a few risks and get a few breaks. On 4th and 1, that could have been moreso due to distrust in your team to get the minimum yardage.

Again, what makes it hard to scrutinize these decisions is that most coaches trust the talent on their team to win games. It becomes a different story when a coach knows he is brutally outmatched and has to start pulling from a bag of tricks to win.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 11:35 AM
That's the thing. You'd think he'd show SOME progress in three years.

He hasn't. What has he improved upon as a coach? Nothing. He still makes idiot decisions on gameday (just like Herm). He still depends on the offseason to look good (just like Herm). And he sounds like a babbling idiot at press conferences (just like Herm).

Guys, Haley IS Herm. They're the same goddamn coach.

The players are clearly better. He has maximized the talent on this team. The defense is better, but asked to do way too much to support a horrible offense. We have a very good run blocking o-line... but only when we have a decent running back in the backfield. Our pass protection was significantly better last night, largely because we had a QB who was visibly picking up blitzes.

I'm sorry, but this team when healthy has improved in every single area except the QB position. Yes, I truly believe our healthy supporting cast is a HELL of a lot better than New Orleans or Indianapolis. I think they're even better than New England's.

I am going on the record to say that when all our players are healthy, with a top 10 QB, this team is a serious contender.

SNR
11-22-2011, 11:46 AM
The players are clearly better. He has maximized the talent on this team. The defense is better, but asked to do way too much to support a horrible offense. We have a very good run blocking o-line... but only when we have a decent running back in the backfield. Our pass protection was significantly better last night, largely because we had a QB who was visibly picking up blitzes.

I'm sorry, but this team when healthy has improved in every single area except the QB position. Yes, I truly believe our healthy supporting cast is a HELL of a lot better than New Orleans or Indianapolis. I think they're even better than New England's.

I am going on the record to say that when all our players are healthy, with a top 10 QB, this team is a serious contender.I REALLY like the team we've assembled (apart from the QB position, that is). I've been saying that since this offseason. Acquiring depth at a few key positions shouldn't be difficult at all if we ever find a real QB.

Haley's just a TERRIBLE game day coach. He's worse than Andy Reid. He's Herm-level. I don't really see us winning very many playoff games with his idiocy in charge.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2011, 11:49 AM
Some coaches play checkers, Haley plays golf.

Extra Point
11-22-2011, 11:55 AM
Some coaches play checkers, Haley plays golf.

Golf doesn't have a clock, but I'm sure he slow-plays.

TEX
11-22-2011, 12:00 PM
The players are clearly better. He has maximized the talent on this team. The defense is better, but asked to do way too much to support a horrible offense. We have a very good run blocking o-line... but only when we have a decent running back in the backfield. Our pass protection was significantly better last night, largely because we had a QB who was visibly picking up blitzes.

I'm sorry, but this team when healthy has improved in every single area except the QB position. Yes, I truly believe our healthy supporting cast is a HELL of a lot better than New Orleans or Indianapolis. I think they're even better than New England's.

I am going on the record to say that when all our players are healthy, with a top 10 QB, this team is a serious contender.

No chance. Our lines on BOTH sides are weak. Also , not much quality depth. To become a contender, you need good coaching. That's where the Chiefs fail. On game day, Haley is terrible.

MahiMike
11-22-2011, 12:03 PM
One interesting thing about our coaching/QB situation is this. Our team, like most, have the coach and QB tied together. So if there's any chance we'll actually draft a 1st round QB, what does that mean for Haley? Jacksonville was the 1st and only team I can think of that drafted a 1st round QB with a lame duck coach. While I was excited to see them finally get a QB, I was dumbfounded they did it when both the head coach and GM were 1 year away from being fired. Each new regime wants their own guy. Look no further than Denver for that.

So bottom line. We either fire Haley AND draft a 1st round QB or we do neither. A vote to fire Cassel is essentially a vote to fire Haley, IMO.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 12:08 PM
No chance. Our lines on BOTH sides are weak. Also , not much quality depth. To become a contender, you need good coaching. That's where the Chiefs fail. On game day, Haley is terrible.

Our lines are not weak.

Our o-line is a very good run blocking o-line and they pass protect fine when the QB actually understands blitz pickups. Did you see Palko yesterday literally tap guys on the shoulder and move them to a position where they could stop the blitz? This o-line is better than New Orleans or New England. They just don't have the right QB. And our running game improves once defenses respect our passing game.

On defense, the d-line is strong, it's jsut the wrong system because Pioli has no imagination to build a defense outside of what he built in NE. This 2-gap system was probably a huge mistake. That's not on Haley. Pioli drafting Jackson at #3 made it very clear that Haley had no choice.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 12:09 PM
I REALLY like the team we've assembled (apart from the QB position, that is). I've been saying that since this offseason. Acquiring depth at a few key positions shouldn't be difficult at all if we ever find a real QB.

Haley's just a TERRIBLE game day coach. He's worse than Andy Reid. He's Herm-level. I don't really see us winning very many playoff games with his idiocy in charge.

Tell me if you think otherwise, but I thought he was fine as a gameday coach last year. He seems to make a lot more iffy/risky decisions when he doesn't trust his team. Is he sitting on clock with 2 minutes to go in the first half in most games because he's inept? Or does he just have this "oh shit' fear that Cassel is going to screw it up?

DaWolf
11-22-2011, 12:17 PM
I REALLY like the team we've assembled (apart from the QB position, that is). I've been saying that since this offseason. Acquiring depth at a few key positions shouldn't be difficult at all if we ever find a real QB.

Haley's just a TERRIBLE game day coach. He's worse than Andy Reid. He's Herm-level. I don't really see us winning very many playoff games with his idiocy in charge.

I kinda see us like the 49ers last year in a sense. We've got good young talent, but we've got coaches who don't necessarily know what they want this team to be and how to coach them to be that team. The most damning thing to me about Haley is that we have no identity. Some of that is injuries, but I lay a lot of that on his promotion of Muir to OC. Again, to me this is like Mike Singletary and Jimmy Raye. You've got guys who are showing that they don't really know how to put guys in positions to succeed. I get that there are injuries, but there is no excuse to getting blown out this many times.

I think you get a proven, veteran coach in here who knows how to drive guys and get them ready to compete, and who can actually work with other coaches so that you can bring in a bright mind at OC, then you sprinkle in some more talent through the draft, sign a few savvy free agents, and get your injured stars back, and we can be right back in the thick of it. Lots of people coming into the year were comparing us to where the Packers were a few years ago, when they went from 13-3 to 6-10, then back to 11-5. I see the makings of a good nucleus here. The critical difference, of course, is the lack of the franchise QB. But again that's where I go back to SF, because Harbaugh is proving that if you know what you are doing and give your team an identity and put guys in a position to succeed, you can still win with a guy like Smith...

OnTheWarpath58
11-22-2011, 12:20 PM
Some coaches play checkers, Haley plays golf.

Golf doesn't have a clock, but I'm sure he slow-plays.

I'm picturing Sergio waggling/regripping 13 times.

BigMeatballDave
11-22-2011, 12:36 PM
I'd rather see Haley as OC and somebody else as HC.

I don't know, I like Haley. I think he has a few things that could make him a successful coach in this league.

But this is awful and I just think it needs to purged.

It's unfortunate Haley has had to work with shitty quarterbacks. This could be his own fault, though.

FringeNC
11-22-2011, 01:06 PM
Haley seems like a beaten man. I won't be upset if he is fired, but I also wouldn't be upset if he was kept around. Nothing really matters until the QB position is addressed. Pioli made a huge bet on Cassel and lost big. Now the franchise is in chaos because of it.

Chiefnj2
11-22-2011, 01:37 PM
Our lines are not weak.

Our o-line is a very good run blocking o-line .

No they aren't.

FAX
11-22-2011, 01:40 PM
Haley seems like a beaten man. I won't be upset if he is fired, but I also wouldn't be upset if he was kept around. Nothing really matters until the QB position is addressed. Pioli made a huge bet on Cassel and lost big. Now the franchise is in chaos because of it.

I think he's tired of trying to push an elephant up three flights of stairs.

Ultimately, it may not fall to Pioli or Clark whether Haley stays or goes.

I'm sure he gets a ton of calls from other teams. If I were him, I'd consider another job somewhere else. It's impossible to win when you don't have a quarterback and, at some point, you have to look out for yourself.

FAX

philfree
11-22-2011, 01:47 PM
Haley seems like a beaten man. I won't be upset if he is fired, but I also wouldn't be upset if he was kept around. Nothing really matters until the QB position is addressed. Pioli made a huge bet on Cassel and lost big. Now the franchise is in chaos because of it.

Kinda seems that way. He just doesn't seem the same. Maybe he got the Suck For Luck memo a month after it was sent.

GloryDayz
11-22-2011, 01:50 PM
Kinda seems that way. He just doesn't seem the same. Maybe he got the Suck For Luck memo a month after it was sent.

Yeah, waaaaaaaay too late. Manning beat him to it AGAIN.... :banghead:

KC Tattoo
11-22-2011, 01:50 PM
Kinda seems that way. He just doesn't seem the same. Maybe he got the Suck For Luck memo a month after it was sent.

Yea, & we are back to resorting to running the wildcat. The fucking wildcat.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 01:51 PM
No chance. Our lines on BOTH sides are weak. Also , not much quality depth. To become a contender, you need good coaching. That's where the Chiefs fail. On game day, Haley is terrible.

The line play is being WAY over-analyzed.

HemiEd
11-22-2011, 02:03 PM
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.
Amazing how that works.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 02:36 PM
I kinda see us like the 49ers last year in a sense. We've got good young talent, but we've got coaches who don't necessarily know what they want this team to be and how to coach them to be that team. The most damning thing to me about Haley is that we have no identity. Some of that is injuries, but I lay a lot of that on his promotion of Muir to OC. Again, to me this is like Mike Singletary and Jimmy Raye. You've got guys who are showing that they don't really know how to put guys in positions to succeed. I get that there are injuries, but there is no excuse to getting blown out this many times.

I think you get a proven, veteran coach in here who knows how to drive guys and get them ready to compete, and who can actually work with other coaches so that you can bring in a bright mind at OC,6 then you sprinkle in some more talent through the draft, sign a few savvy free agents, and get your injured stars back, and we can be right back in the thick of it. Lots of people coming into the year were comparing us to where the Packers were a few years ago, when they went from 13-3 to 6-10, then back to 11-5. I see the makings of a good nucleus here. The critical difference, of course, is the lack of the franchise QB. But again that's where I go back to SF, because Harbaugh is proving that if you know what you are doing and give your team an identity and put guys in a position to succeed, you can still win with a guy like Smith...
They didbhave an identity last year. Play to protect the quarterbacks mistakes. Take Charles away and that identity disappears. The 49ers are the 2010 chiefs with better defensive talent and a slightly better qb. At least when they ask Smith to make plays he makes them.

What identity can you create for a team with no qb or rb in an increasingly offense driven league?

whoman69
11-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Haley has done a great job in getting our underachieving players like Johnson, Hali and Bowe to come up to a Pro-Bowl calibre. I still don't see a plan on the offense. Its kind of hard to plan when playing in the NFL with a HS QB but really? The defense takes a step backward for every step forward.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 03:39 PM
Haley has done a great job in getting our underachieving players like Johnson, Hali and Bowe to come up to a Pro-Bowl calibre. I still don't see a plan on the offense. Its kind of hard to plan when playing in the NFL with a HS QB but really? The defense takes a step backward for every step forward.

Thought the plan was good last year. The strength is the receivers and you just can't build on that. It's either the qb or the rb. Usually the qb. How do you build a plan around receivers? Arizona couldn't do it.

Chiefnj2
11-22-2011, 03:41 PM
Haley has done a great job in getting our underachieving players like Johnson, Hali and Bowe to come up to a Pro-Bowl calibre. I still don't see a plan on the offense. Its kind of hard to plan when playing in the NFL with a HS QB but really? The defense takes a step backward for every step forward.

Hali and Bowe were not underachieving prior to Haley's arrival.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 03:59 PM
Hali and Bowe were not underachieving prior to Haley's arrival.

They are better players with the new regime. Period.

Name me a single player you think is underachievimg besides cassel. He has made lemonade out of mostly lemons.

TEX
11-22-2011, 04:01 PM
I do not think that Haley will get fired. I think Matt Cassel will be the starting QB next season. But I think we invest our 1st on a QB. I also think we make a couple of good acquisitions for the OLine. I also think a few weeks from now we will see some of our rookies gets some playing experience to use towards next season.

Next year will be year 4 - far too many holes still to fill. :shake:

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 04:03 PM
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.

Yeah, we'd be losing important games instead of meaningless ones.

TEX
11-22-2011, 04:06 PM
The line play is being WAY over-analyzed.

No way. 3 players need to be replaced on the OL and 2 on the DL. Nothing is being over - analyzed. Both lines need substantial improvement.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 04:09 PM
How many players show up to camp out of shape? How many good players have we re-signed on the cheap? I can only think of a handful of games where our team played without heart. There is a difference between being outmatched and beaten to submission and being outplayed.

I don't get why people obsess over game managers. If you want a guy to manage games then hire norv Turner. I'd rather a guy who coaches a good team. Haley does that. I want a 2 year extension and a concerted effort to get him a real qb. We spend endless threads btiching about the importance of a qb then we expect Haley to win with below average qbs. Doesn't make any sense.

CupidStunt
11-22-2011, 04:29 PM
Welcome to Club Reality. The guy's a moron, as I and others have known for a while, and anyone who doesn't see it yet will realize their mistake sooner or later. Likely sooner. Definitely sooner.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 05:40 PM
No way. 3 players need to be replaced on the OL and 2 on the DL. Nothing is being over - analyzed. Both lines need substantial improvement.

Only two players need to be replaced because of performance - Lilja and Richardson.

Wiegmann needs to be replaced due to age.

I would argue that if we replace Richardson and Wiegmann we could get away with Lilja at LG. You don't need a flawless line to win a SB.

I'd also argue that if Powe pans out at NT we'd have a very solid DL, but depth is needed.

stevieray
11-22-2011, 06:35 PM
...how anyone can expect continuity with a revolving door at OC is fooling themselves...

...even more amazing is after losing JC, EB and TM, the majority on this board wanted to SFL, yet still expects/expected the team to win games.

...this season was shot weeks ago.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 06:36 PM
.
...even more amazing is after losing JC, EB and TM, the majority on this board wanted to SFL, yet still expects/expected the team to win games.


They created that expectation by winning games.

stevieray
11-22-2011, 06:38 PM
They created that expectation by winning games.

no, they didn't...that's just football...every year, teams win games they "should've" lost, and lose games they "should've" won.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 06:41 PM
no, they didn't...that's just football.

Sorry, as soon as we beat San Diego, I expected the team to beat bad teams at Arrowhead. I thought they were a decent team.

Turns out they were just a bunch of frauds. Like last year.

stevieray
11-22-2011, 06:41 PM
I expected

:LOL:

it'll get you every time, dude.

Chiefnj2
11-22-2011, 07:02 PM
How many players show up to camp out of shape? How many good players have we re-signed on the cheap? I can only think of a handful of games where our team played without heart. There is a difference between being outmatched and beaten to submission and being outplayed.

I don't get why people obsess over game managers. If you want a guy to manage games then hire norv Turner. I'd rather a guy who coaches a good team. Haley does that. I want a 2 year extension and a concerted effort to get him a real qb. We spend endless threads btiching about the importance of a qb then we expect Haley to win with below average qbs. Doesn't make any sense.

The Chiefs have been blown out and scored 10 points or less in half their games this season. You think that's good coaching?

whoman69
11-22-2011, 07:06 PM
Hali and Bowe were not underachieving prior to Haley's arrival.

Short memory

Reerun_KC
11-22-2011, 07:08 PM
I dont care who the coaches or players are anymore...

I just want to win a superbowl and could careless about who the HC is or the name on the back of the jersey...

Chiefnj2
11-22-2011, 07:11 PM
Short memory

Hali led the team in sacks his rookie year.
Bowe averaged about 80 receptions and 1000 yards his first two years.

Real underachievers there.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 07:18 PM
Hali and Bowe were not underachieving prior to Haley's arrival.

But they've both improved dramatically since his arrival.

htismaqe
11-22-2011, 07:20 PM
No way. 3 players need to be replaced on the OL and 2 on the DL. Nothing is being over - analyzed. Both lines need substantial improvement.

If Houston were performing to expectations and we had another solid LB instead of Jovan Belcher, people wouldn't be talking about the DL nearly as much. They're not stellar but they don't suck. Some of the no names (Gordon) don't look too bad either.

A real QB would instantly make this line look better.

whosyou
11-22-2011, 07:32 PM
Bill Cowher was at cabbalas buying a deer blind today

Reerun_KC
11-22-2011, 07:35 PM
Bill Cowher was at cabbalas buying a deer blind today

Lets hope he shoots himself in it...

Okie_Apparition
11-22-2011, 07:39 PM
Cowher bought 99% of his QBs blind as well

ChiefsrGood
11-22-2011, 07:54 PM
Answer this question:

Will the Kansas City Chiefs be good next year?

GloryDayz
11-22-2011, 08:12 PM
I kinda see us like the 49ers last year in a sense. We've got good young talent, but we've got coaches who don't necessarily know what they want this team to be and how to coach them to be that team. The most damning thing to me about Haley is that we have no identity. Some of that is injuries, but I lay a lot of that on his promotion of Muir to OC. Again, to me this is like Mike Singletary and Jimmy Raye. You've got guys who are showing that they don't really know how to put guys in positions to succeed. I get that there are injuries, but there is no excuse to getting blown out this many times.

I think you get a proven, veteran coach in here who knows how to drive guys and get them ready to compete, and who can actually work with other coaches so that you can bring in a bright mind at OC, then you sprinkle in some more talent through the draft, sign a few savvy free agents, and get your injured stars back, and we can be right back in the thick of it. Lots of people coming into the year were comparing us to where the Packers were a few years ago, when they went from 13-3 to 6-10, then back to 11-5. I see the makings of a good nucleus here. The critical difference, of course, is the lack of the franchise QB. But again that's where I go back to SF, because Harbaugh is proving that if you know what you are doing and give your team an identity and put guys in a position to succeed, you can still win with a guy like Smith...

Nice dissertation... Rep!! Didn't read it, but the length is worth of a porn star... :thumb:

WhiteWhale
11-22-2011, 08:18 PM
Hali led the team in sacks his rookie year.
Bowe averaged about 80 receptions and 1000 yards his first two years.

Real underachievers there.

Bowe was a 50% catcher who we threw to more often than Tony Gonzalaz. He put up stats via volume... the same way Chris Chambers used to. It's like a CB that gets a lot of picks because QB's pick on him. Now he's a league leading WR that gets respect from elite corners.

Hali.. yeah... if you can't see the difference between then and now you're blind. Hali was an 8 sack guy prior to Haley and was coming off a 3 sack season. Now he's a 15 sack guy and one of the elite pass rushers in the NFL.

Of course, now you can tell me how DJ always played up to his potential and is no better now than he was before. Or maybe that it's all a coincidence and that Johnson was just due for his breakout season as a six year veteran.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 08:44 PM
The Chiefs have been blown out and scored 10 points or less in half their games this season. You think that's good coaching?

How about addressing the points I make instead of completely changing direction. Like I've said, for all the arguments we make about the importance of a franchise QB, why are we so insistent that Haley win without one? It's pretty simple. The Chiefs get blown out a lot because when they fall 2-3 TDs behind, they have to rely on Cassel and have to ditch the running game.

You know what? Aaron Rodgers doesn't get blown out because when his defense falls behind, he picks up the pace. The Chiefs don't have someone like that. Other than Indianapolis, how many games can you remember where Matt Cassel picked up his defense?

FAX
11-22-2011, 08:54 PM
How about addressing the points I make instead of completely changing direction. Like I've said, for all the arguments we make about the importance of a franchise QB, why are we so insistent that Haley win without one? It's pretty simple. The Chiefs get blown out a lot because when they fall 2-3 TDs behind, they have to rely on Cassel and have to ditch the running game.

You know what? Aaron Rodgers doesn't get blown out because when his defense falls behind, he picks up the pace. The Chiefs don't have someone like that. Other than Indianapolis, how many games can you remember where Matt Cassel picked up his defense?

It's this one, single, simple statement of fact that has me bumfuzzled.

And, the more I read about how Haley is the Devil, the more fuzzled my bum becomes. Assuming that these people want the Chiefs to succeed, they should realize that Haley (or whomever the coach might be) has to adjust our approach to the game in order to fit the scheme to Cassel's abilities ... and those abilities are very limited.

The result is a collage of risk-taking, aberrant play-calls, tired defenses, runs to nowhere, and dinky-dunks.

Not to mention the overall malaise that is bound to affect your locker room when the players know full well that we are A) Utterly unable to maintain a consistent offensive attack and B) Come from behind.

Charles saved our asses last season, but without him, Haley has once again been charged with making chicken salad out of walrus feces and is criticized for the effort. It's too bad for a lot of reasons ... not the least of which is that Haley will likely be very successful in this league as a head coach someday ... but probably not here. And that's a shame.

FAX

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 08:58 PM
We've been blown out with Charles and without Charles.

14 blowouts in 42 games is not an accident.

Haley is garbage.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2011, 09:00 PM
But they've both improved dramatically since his arrival.

Correlation has something to say about causation. Did Herm really coach up Jared Allen?

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 09:01 PM
Correlation has something to say about causation. Did Herm really coach up Jared Allen?

No, all credit for that goes to Krumrie and Gunther. :LOL:

KC Tattoo
11-22-2011, 09:03 PM
I wanted to wait his 3rd year to form an honest opinion of him. Honestly he sucks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2011, 09:03 PM
Haley is what he is, another one hit wonder offensive coordinator like Mike Mularkey, Greg Robinson, any many, many others. Honestly, he doesn't have a super impressive, or long, track record as an OC either. He's done nothing to indicate that he's anything other than replaceable. I don't even buy the "players play hard for him" line. If they did, more talented Chiefs teams, which this definitely is, wouldn't be getting curb stomped more than the Herm teams did.

FringeNC
11-22-2011, 09:05 PM
We've been blown out with Charles and without Charles.

14 blowouts in 42 games is not an accident.

Haley is garbage.

The three most important positions in a franchise are GM, head coach, and QB. Thus far, I'm far more convinced that Pioli and Cassel are garbage than I am about Haley.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-22-2011, 09:07 PM
The three most important positions in a franchise are GM, head coach, and QB. Thus far, I'm far more convinced that Pioli and Cassel are garbage than I am about Haley.

Oh absolutely, but deer shit is still shit, even when compared against steaming hog shit.

petegz28
11-22-2011, 09:15 PM
Haley failed miserably this year from the start of training camp. The team looks soft, scared, unprepared, unorganized and just generally sucks. That is not the sign of a good head coach in his 3rd year with a team.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 09:20 PM
Haley is what he is, another one hit wonder offensive coordinator like Mike Mularkey, Greg Robinson, any many, many others. Honestly, he doesn't have a super impressive, or long, track record as an OC either. He's done nothing to indicate that he's anything other than replaceable. I don't even buy the "players play hard for him" line. If they did, more talented Chiefs teams, which this definitely is, wouldn't be getting curb stomped more than the Herm teams did.

Again, though...
How many players can you say "that guy is not playing up to his potential" under Haley?

How many close games did we win last year because of NEGATIVE QB play? What if we had an AVERAGE QB play against Denver two weeks ago? What about this week against New England--a guy who could actually finish up drives? Better yet... why did we lose to Baltimore? Primarily because of negative QB play. Our QB is a virus. I saw Palko this week move tight ends and RBs into positions to pick up the blitz. I saw him call his own plays, whereas Cassel look confusedly to the sideline for direction. I saw Palko dictate the tempo of the game. And all year long, Haley/Muir's playcalls are getting receivers open. What the **** do you do when your QB doesn't hit those open guys? What do you do when your QB is so inept at throwing to the deep field that the entire defense is gunning for 20 yards and in?

I don't care how gifted a carpenter you are. You're not going to build a good house with a plastic hammer.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 09:21 PM
Haley failed miserably this year from the start of training camp. The team looks soft, scared, unprepared, unorganized and just generally sucks. That is not the sign of a good head coach in his 3rd year with a team.

Haley made a critical mistake the first 2 games of the season. It's not something he should be fired over.

It's obvious we weren't going to win with Cassel even if we were well prepared.

FringeNC
11-22-2011, 09:21 PM
Oh absolutely, but deer shit is still shit, even when compared against steaming hog shit.

That we had a more wide-open game plan with a 28 year old journeyman QB making his first start than we have had with our Pioli-anointed starter for 3 years is just incredibly damning of the relationship between Pioli and Haley. Of course, Haley is right about Cassel. Who is going to work for Pioli after it comes out that Pioli won't let a head coach have any say about the QB? (Other than Gunther Cunningham.)

I'm not convinced Haley is a bad coach, but I don't think Pioli and Haley can work together, so it's a moot point.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 09:30 PM
That we had a more wide-open game plan with a 28 year old journeyman QB making his first start than we have had with our Pioli-anointed starter for 3 years is just incredibly damning of the relationship between Pioli and Haley. Of course, Haley is right about Cassel. Who is going to work for Pioli after it comes out that Pioli won't let a head coach have any say about the QB? (Other than Gunther Cunningham.)

I'm not convinced Haley is a bad coach, but I don't think Pioli and Haley can work together, so it's a moot point.

I think there's some truth to this.

I believe Pioli forced Weis and Crennel on Haley. I also believe keeping Gailey was more a favor to Hunt. I don't think Haley had a choice but to run the 2-gap 3-4. I think Haley was playing nice on the Weis hire, but no, I don't think it was a hire he necessarily wanted to make. And yes, given that Haley completely opened up the gameplan for Palko, a journeyman, it says a lot about how much he trusts Cassel.

Pioli is the problem. Let your head coach coach, and build the system around him. It took longer for Pioli to build Haley a defense because he had to get completely different personnel. And Cassel has clearly held the offense very far back.

Reerun_KC
11-22-2011, 09:32 PM
Reading what you guys post is absolutely priceless...

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 09:33 PM
Haley made a critical mistake the first 2 games of the season. It's not something he should be fired over.

It's obvious we weren't going to win with Cassel even if we were well prepared.

You're right. He should be fired because he constantly gets blown out.

It's not changing anytime soon.

It's what he does best - embarrass the organization.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 09:36 PM
You're right. He should be fired because he constantly gets blown out.

It's not changing anytime soon.

It's what he does best - embarrass the organization.

We have a QB that can't come back from a lead of 14 points or higher. This is a running team because we can't trust our QB to take over games.

You're going to get blown out a lot when you have to develop a strategy around keeping the ball out of the hands of your QB.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 09:47 PM
We have a QB that can't come back from a lead of 14 points or higher. This is a running team because we can't trust our QB to take over games.

You're going to get blown out a lot when you have to develop a strategy around keeping the ball out of the hands of your QB.

Also when you can't stop anyone on defense. Let's try and absolve Haley for everything, though.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 09:51 PM
Also when you can't stop anyone on defense. Let's try and absolve Haley for everything, though.

This is a pass-happy league. We've talked about this a million times. We have 3 QBs that might beat Marino's record. Your defense is going to give up points.

The Packers have a very good defense. They give up a ton of points. Great offenses pick up a defense when they have an off day. And our Defense has a lot more good days than they have bad. Cassel should be able to pick up at least a few of those for his defense. Secondly, how many bad defensive performances were in the second half after they were left on the field the entire first half because of poor QB play?

A good QB improves the defense. For one, he picks them up when they struggle. He keeps them largely off the field. And he forces them to become one-dimensional. You know why GB gets a lot of sacks and forces turnovers? Because opposing offenses HAVE to pass in order to keep up.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 09:56 PM
And our Defense has a lot more good days than they have bad.

Not this year, and not in 09.

Don't act like Haley has built anything in KC. He hasn't. We have a loose collection of talent Haley has molded into a shit D and a shit O.

Brock
11-22-2011, 10:01 PM
He's out of here. No way he gets an extension now.

It doesn't matter that a few players got better supposedly because Haley made them better (lol), that doesn't mean anything when the team looks as bad as this one does, loses like it does, by as many points as it does. No. Good bye, sir.

chiefzilla1501
11-22-2011, 10:06 PM
Not this year, and not in 09.

Don't act like Haley has built anything in KC. He hasn't. We have a loose collection of talent Haley has molded into a shit D and a shit O.

Who cares about '09? Pioli gave Haley ZERO to work with.

1) the Chiefs' defense in more games does enough to make the game winnable. They are more than adequate for a good offense and a hell of a lot better than what New Orleans or even New England have. 2) Again, it goes back to Pioli. You blame Haley for '09? What about Pioli for forcing a 3-4 on a 4-3 team? What about Pioli for being so stuck on his friends that he hired Romeo to run an outdated scheme? Haley never had a choice in this.

I don't think the defense is that bad. But the reason they aren't great is a hell of a lot more on Pioli than it is Haley. Again, who on defense is underperforming their talent level? Who? Nobody can answer that question because he's' made the most out of almost every player he's coached.

Count Zarth
11-22-2011, 10:13 PM
1) the Chiefs' defense in more games does enough to make the game winnable.

Buffalo? No.

Detroit? No.

Miami? No.

New England? No.

Four of our six losses the defense sucked horse cock.

They also tried to give the game away in Indianapolis. Fortunately the offense bailed them out.

This is not a good defense, and wasn't last year when it mattered in the playoffs.

ChiefsCountry
11-22-2011, 10:18 PM
Haley will be back in 2012 IMO.

Epic Fail 007
11-22-2011, 11:07 PM
http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2011/9/19/2435208/josh-mcdaniels-predicted-to-succeed-todd-haley-next-head-coach-of

SNR
11-22-2011, 11:12 PM
Buffalo? No.

Detroit? No.

Miami? No.

New England? No.

Four of our six losses the defense sucked horse cock.

They also tried to give the game away in Indianapolis. Fortunately the offense bailed them out.

This is not a good defense, and wasn't last year when it mattered in the playoffs.They're good in the first halves of games! /Patriot fans

Guru
11-23-2011, 01:30 AM
http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2011/9/19/2435208/josh-mcdaniels-predicted-to-succeed-todd-haley-next-head-coach-of

not gonna happen

bevischief
11-23-2011, 06:20 AM
http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-city-chiefs/2011/9/19/2435208/josh-mcdaniels-predicted-to-succeed-todd-haley-next-head-coach-of

The server would melt if that happened...

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 06:46 AM
Buffalo? No.

Detroit? No.

Miami? No.

New England? No.

Four of our six losses the defense sucked horse cock.

They also tried to give the game away in Indianapolis. Fortunately the offense bailed them out.

This is not a good defense, and wasn't last year when it mattered in the playoffs.

The Detroit and Buffalo game, we have no idea how well they would have played if they were actually prepared. That was easily a preparation issue. Everyone looked gassed. The New England game, the defense played well enough in the first half to keep the team in the game. You're not going to keep Tom Brady silent for two halves. We don't have an elite defense, but as I said, in most games, they do enough to give the offense a fighting chance to win. It was definitely our offense that lost the game against New England. And in Baltimore, you're using the score to justify your point. Our defense played solid that game. You forget that we were winning in the first half. We lost that game because our passing game (despite Baltimore throwing 8 guys in the box) couldn't move the ball whatsoever, and because McCluster and Cassel committed two key turnovers early in the 2nd half that gave Baltimore prime field position.

And again, you're assuming the defense is on Haley. I blame Pioli for hiring Crennel and jamming a 3-4 onto him.

FAX
11-23-2011, 06:56 AM
The Detroit and Buffalo game, we have no idea how well they would have played if they were actually prepared. That was easily a preparation issue. Everyone looked gassed. The New England game, the defense played well enough in the first half to keep the team in the game. You're not going to keep Tom Brady silent for two halves. We don't have an elite defense, but as I said, in most games, they do enough to give the offense a fighting chance to win. It was definitely our offense that lost the game against New England. And in Baltimore, you're using the score to justify your point. Our defense played solid that game. You forget that we were winning in the first half. We lost that game because our passing game (despite Baltimore throwing 8 guys in the box) couldn't move the ball whatsoever, and because McCluster and Cassel committed two key turnovers early in the 2nd half that gave Baltimore prime field position.

And again, you're assuming the defense is on Haley. I blame Pioli for hiring Crennel and jamming a 3-4 onto him.

This whole thing has passed the absurdity threshold. Some people are merely looking for any reason to bolster their point of view. Everybody knows that, when a defense spends as much time on the field as ours does, you're going to have problems. When you add in the field position issue, the enemy has every reason to put 40 on your ass.

Grampa Dick used to complain that the offense scored too fast, which put pressure on the defense. Nowadays, it's because the offense is a 3-and-out machine.

On account of our record and the blowout losses, people are going to hate Haley regardless of the facts or the truth or the actualityness of the situation. I, on the other hand, prefer to reserve my unreasonable and irrational hate for Cassel and his family.

FAX

htismaqe
11-23-2011, 07:03 AM
Correlation has something to say about causation. Did Herm really coach up Jared Allen?

I didn't say they got better BECAUSE of Haley.

But they did get better while he was here, did they not?

Chiefnj2
11-23-2011, 07:13 AM
Better yet... why did we lose to Baltimore? Primarily because of negative QB play..

KC lost to Baltimore because nobody on D could cover Todd Heap. Dex's fumble. Charles' fumble. Not getting the ball to Bowe in the first half and a ridiculous 4th down call by an OC who had mailed it in 3 weeks prior. And then, once Baltimore got the lead Cassel folded under pressure in the 2nd half.

Reerun_KC
11-23-2011, 07:15 AM
KC lost to Baltimore because nobody on D could cover Todd Heap. Dex's fumble. Charles' fumble. Not getting the ball to Bowe in the first half and a ridiculous 4th down call by an OC who had mailed it in 3 weeks prior. And then, once Baltimore got the lead Cassel folded under pressure in the 2nd half.

That pretty much sums it up....

kysirsoze
11-23-2011, 07:17 AM
Correlation has something to say about causation. Did Herm really coach up Jared Allen?

OK, so he gets credit for the bad but not the good. How does that make sense? Haley made high profile moves regarding Bowe and Johnson and they both responded by playing at the next level. Credit where it's due, man.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 07:19 AM
sThis whole thing has passed the absurdity threshold. Some people are merely looking for any reason to bolster their point of view. Everybody knows that, when a defense spends as much time on the field as ours does, you're going to have problems. When you add in the field position issue, the enemy has every reason to put 40 on your ass.

Grampa Dick used to complain that the offense scored too fast, which put pressure on the defense. Nowadays, it's because the offense is a 3-and-out machine.

On account of our record and the blowout losses, people are going to hate Haley regardless of the facts or the truth or the actualityness of the situation. I, on the other hand, prefer to reserve my unreasonable and irrational hate for Cassel and his family.

FAX

Its absurd
The same people who say we can't win without a franchise qb let alone a qb who nnegatively contributes...
The same people who say Clark hunt is shortchanging this team of talent by being cheap...
The same people who blast pioli for screwing up the qb, nt, pass rusher and for being a bad gm....
These are the same people who grill Haley for losing despite being shortchanged of talent especially at qb and nt. When things go wrong the first instinct is to blame everybody.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-23-2011, 07:22 AM
I didn't say they got better BECAUSE of Haley.

But they did get better while he was here, did they not?

Fo shooooo.

Haley's definitely not Rich Kotite. He's also not Bill Walsh. To me, he's just a guy. Yeah, he got a bit of a raw deal with the Cassel thing, but that's balanced out by the fact that I'm not sure he was really ready or competent enough to be a HC.

If he gets canned, it won't bother me. If he stays, it won't bother

I will say this: if we do draft a QB in the first (I'm still pessimistic), I'd much rather have Haley than some retread defensive coach (John Fox, Jeff Fisher, Bill Cowher, etc.) who loathes the thought of developing a young QB and just wants someone to manage the game.

htismaqe
11-23-2011, 07:24 AM
Fo shooooo.

Haley's definitely not Rich Kotite. He's also not Bill Walsh. To me, he's just a guy. Yeah, he got a bit of a raw deal with the Cassel thing, but that's balanced out by the fact that I'm not sure he was really ready or competent enough to be a HC.

If he gets canned, it won't bother me. If he stays, it won't bother

I will say this: if we do draft a QB in the first (I'm still pessimistic), I'd much rather have Haley than some retread defensive coach (John Fox, Jeff Fisher, Bill Cowher, etc.) who loathes the thought of developing a young QB and just wants someone to manage the game.

Yup yup.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 07:24 AM
KC lost to Baltimore because nobody on D could cover Todd Heap. Dex's fumble. Charles' fumble. Not getting the ball to Bowe in the first half and a ridiculous 4th down call by an OC who had mailed it in 3 weeks prior. And then, once Baltimore got the lead Cassel folded under pressure in the 2nd half.

An average qb keeps us in that game. Period. We were competitive in every phase of the game except our d bag quarterback. Our defense did more than enough to win. Our offense crippled them.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-23-2011, 07:26 AM
OK, so he gets credit for the bad but not the good. How does that make sense? Haley made high profile moves regarding Bowe and Johnson and they both responded by playing at the next level. Credit where it's due, man.

???

I'm not saying he only gets credit for the losses or bad outcomes but not the good, I'm saying that to assume that those players improved solely because of Haley is a logical misstep.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 07:29 AM
Fo shooooo.

Haley's definitely not Rich Kotite. He's also not Bill Walsh. To me, he's just a guy. Yeah, he got a bit of a raw deal with the Cassel thing, but that's balanced out by the fact that I'm not sure he was really ready or competent enough to be a HC.

If he gets canned, it won't bother me. If he stays, it won't bother

I will say this: if we do draft a QB in the first (I'm still pessimistic), I'd much rather have Haley than some retread defensive coach (John Fox, Jeff Fisher, Bill Cowher, etc.) who loathes the thought of developing a young QB and just wants someone to manage the game.

Shortchanged on cassel, by a cheap owner, by a gm who forced his system onto the clay instead of letting the coach run his system. Haley is the definition of being handcuffed. But in the process, players have gotten much better under his watch, they respect him deeply, and they stay disciplined enough to work hard and stay in shape for training camp.

I don't know his ceiling. Maybe its low. But he's shown tremendous upside and he deserves a shot at doing things his way instead of the gm jamming the patriot way down his throat.

Chiefnj2
11-23-2011, 07:31 AM
An average qb keeps us in that game. Period. We were competitive in every phase of the game except our d bag quarterback. Our defense did more than enough to win. Our offense crippled them.

How many yards did Charles have in the 2nd half? Baltimore's first possession of the game led to points and about 5 minutes of the clock being chewed up. I agree the offense was bad - but it was bad all around. Drives ended with bad playcalling, and fumbles by players other than Cassel. Did Cassel melt under pressure toward the end - sure, he always does. But to ignore the playcalling, lack of productivity by Charles in the 2nd half, and turnovers by other players is just ignorant. But I know, with any other QB the team is a playoff contender.*

* Except Tyler Palko.

FAX
11-23-2011, 07:31 AM
s

Its absurd
The same people who say we can't win without a franchise qb let alone a qb who nnegatively contributes...
The same people who say Clark hunt is shortchanging this team of talent by being cheap...
The same people who blast pioli for screwing up the qb, nt, pass rusher and for being a bad gm....
These are the same people who grill Haley for losing despite being shortchanged of talent especially at qb and nt. When things go wrong the first instinct is to blame everybody.

It's human nature, Mr. chiefzilla1501.

It's like those people who blame the iceberg for the Titanic. Or, those people who blame the New Orleans flood on backed up sewers. Or, those people who blame Torgo for tying up The Master's wife to that pole.

FAX

kysirsoze
11-23-2011, 07:39 AM
???

I'm not saying he only gets credit for the losses or bad outcomes but not the good, I'm saying that to assume that those players improved solely because of Haley is a logical misstep.

Well assuming anyone ever improves as a player due to one factor is a logical misstep. I'm saying any reasonable person will look at what took place during those camps and give him a large share of the credit, especially when you hear those players talk about him. It's more than simple correlation.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 07:40 AM
???

I'm not saying he only gets credit for the losses or bad outcomes but not the good, I'm saying that to assume that those players improved solely because of Haley is a logical misstep.

Fat players show up on time and in shape to camp. Putting bowe and dj in the doghouse had clear impact. Managing hali and Albert on their weight has elevated their games. Bowe is taking his game seriously enough to attend fitz's camp. He did a very good of managing bowe and Baldwin's offseason distractions. And players are resigning for cheap, indicating they love playing for him. The most important quality of a head coach is to manage the team especially their attitude. He has done that in spades and I appreciate his creativeness to do it.

FAX
11-23-2011, 07:46 AM
I would just like to see what Haley could do with a good quarterback ... not even a great one ... just a good, decent quarterback who can go through his progressions, throw a good, accurate pass in the 10 to 40 yard range, and demonstrate decent pocket presence.

I honestly believe that, given his knowledge of the passing game, he could do some very interesting things with a guy like that.

I'll probably never get the chance to see it, though.

FAX

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 07:52 AM
How many yards did Charles have in the 2nd half? Baltimore's first possession of the game led to points and about 5 minutes of the clock being chewed up. I agree the offense was bad - but it was bad all around. Drives ended with bad playcalling, and fumbles by players other than Cassel. Did Cassel melt under pressure toward the end - sure, he always does. But to ignore the playcalling, lack of productivity by Charles in the 2nd half, and turnovers by other players is just ignorant. But I know, with any other QB the team is a playoff contender.*

* Except Tyler Palko.

You're looking at the stats. Not what actually happened on the field.

Second half
Drive 1: we get to the 34 yard line. Charles doesn't convert on a 4th and 1. Mostly effective drive. By the way, main reason we didn't get a first down on that drive was because Charles dropped an easy dump-off pass on first down.
Baltimore fg - 13-7

Drive 2:
Matt Dipshit Cassel -- intentional grounding on first down. 2nd and 20 -- sacked for -5 yards. 3rd and 25 -- McCluster fumbles. Uh... yeah, you think the QB and not the coaching is to blame here?
Baltimore fg (gifted to them) - 16-7

Drive 3:
Matt Dipshit Cassel -- intercepted on the second play of the drive. SECOND PLAY.
Baltimore td (gifted to them) - 23-7

But yeah, let's blame the defense and coaching for this loss. That's an easy excuse. The Chiefs were in this game and then two boneheaded drives by the QB led to a 10 point swing that put the game out of reach.

FAX
11-23-2011, 07:59 AM
You're looking at the stats. Not what actually happened on the field.

Second half
Drive 1: we get to the 34 yard line. Charles doesn't convert on a 4th and 1. Mostly effective drive. By the way, main reason we didn't get a first down on that drive was because Charles dropped an easy dump-off pass on first down.
Baltimore fg - 13-7

Drive 2:
Matt Dipshit Cassel -- intentional grounding on first down. 2nd and 20 -- sacked for -5 yards. 3rd and 25 -- McCluster fumbles. Uh... yeah, you think the QB and not the coaching is to blame here?
Baltimore fg (gifted to them) - 16-7

Drive 3:
Matt Dipshit Cassel -- intercepted on the second play of the drive. SECOND PLAY.
Baltimore td (gifted to them) - 23-7

But yeah, let's blame the defense and coaching for this loss. That's an easy excuse. The Chiefs were in this game and then two boneheaded drives by the QB led to a 10 point swing that put the game out of reach.

Ouch.

Anybody else's testicles hurt all of a sudden?

FAX

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 08:42 AM
I don't know his ceiling. Maybe its low. But he's shown tremendous upside and he deserves a shot at doing things his way instead of the gm jamming the patriot way down his throat.

He hasn't, really.

He continues to show he's a sideline hothead who can't co exist with a quality OC.

That alone is reason enough to can his ass.

His upside is becoming a good offensive coordinator.

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 08:44 AM
Fo shooooo.

Haley's definitely not Rich Kotite. He's also not Bill Walsh. To me, he's just a guy. Yeah, he got a bit of a raw deal with the Cassel thing, but that's balanced out by the fact that I'm not sure he was really ready or competent enough to be a HC.

If he gets canned, it won't bother me. If he stays, it won't bother

I will say this: if we do draft a QB in the first (I'm still pessimistic), I'd much rather have Haley than some retread defensive coach (John Fox, Jeff Fisher, Bill Cowher, etc.) who loathes the thought of developing a young QB and just wants someone to manage the game.

I sort of agree with this. It wouldn't be horrible.

But even with a franchise QB I still get the heebie jeebies that Haley would do something dumb in a close game in the playoffs.

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 08:46 AM
And again, you're assuming the defense is on Haley. I blame Pioli for hiring Crennel and jamming a 3-4 onto him.

He's the fucking head coach.

We're running the worst McDonalds in town and you want to blame the fry cook and the register biscuits instead of the manager.

SNR
11-23-2011, 08:47 AM
You're looking at the stats. Not what actually happened on the field.

Second half
Drive 1: we get to the 34 yard line. Charles doesn't convert on a 4th and 1. Mostly effective drive. By the way, main reason we didn't get a first down on that drive was because Charles dropped an easy dump-off pass on first down.
Baltimore fg - 13-7

Drive 2:
Matt Dipshit Cassel -- intentional grounding on first down. 2nd and 20 -- sacked for -5 yards. 3rd and 25 -- McCluster fumbles. Uh... yeah, you think the QB and not the coaching is to blame here?
Baltimore fg (gifted to them) - 16-7

Drive 3:
Matt Dipshit Cassel -- intercepted on the second play of the drive. SECOND PLAY.
Baltimore td (gifted to them) - 23-7

But yeah, let's blame the defense and coaching for this loss. That's an easy excuse. The Chiefs were in this game and then two boneheaded drives by the QB led to a 10 point swing that put the game out of reach.This is kind of how we lose a lot of games. We stay competitive and fierce for awhile, then something happens and we just go into a shell and get raped for a couple of quarters.

Red Beans
11-23-2011, 08:49 AM
He hasn't, really.

He continues to show he's a sideline hothead who can't co exist with a quality OC.

That alone is reason enough to can his ass.

His upside is becoming a good offensive coordinator.

Weiss left on his own volition. What other quality OC has there been, or rumored to have been?

FringeNC
11-23-2011, 08:53 AM
I sort of agree with this. It wouldn't be horrible.

But even with a franchise QB I still get the heebie jeebies that Haley would do something dumb in a close game in the playoffs.

Actually Haley's problem isn't losing close games. It's getting blown out. A case could be made that blowout loses reflect talent deficiencies.

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 08:54 AM
Weiss left on his own volition. What other quality OC has there been, or rumored to have been?

Chan Gailey.

We would be far better off with that guy coaching this team. At any position.

Plus, we didn't even try to hire an OC this past offseason. Haley didn't even practice due diligence. Muir is a farce of a hire.

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 08:55 AM
A case could be made that blowout loses reflect talent deficiencies.

Bullshit. The #1 symptom of blowout losses is not being adequately prepared. This is the modern NFL. Shitty teams are competing with good teams every week because of parity.

You people don't want to blame Haley for ANYTHING.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 08:56 AM
He hasn't, really.

He continues to show he's a sideline hothead who can't co exist with a quality OC.

That alone is reason enough to can his ass.

His upside is becoming a good offensive coordinator.

Gailey didn't run his system. Weis never understood that his role was to ne a coordinator not the head coach. I personally don't believe Haley had much choice with either. And I personally believe Muir was hired because pioli didn't want Haley calling plays.

Pioli has to quit being a control freak and let his coaches coach. Isn't it clear Haley wants to call plays? Then freaking let him.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 08:59 AM
He's the ****ing head coach.

We're running the worst McDonalds in town and you want to blame the fry cook and the register biscuits instead of the manager.

You can't blame the manager if the owner is hiring crackheads and stokers to cook your food. I blame pioli for 90% of this mess.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 09:02 AM
RBullshit. The #1 symptom of blowout losses is not being adequately prepared. This is the modern NFL. Shitty teams are competing with good teams every week because of parity.

You people don't want to blame Haley for ANYTHING.

We are outmatched against playoff teams. Talent wise.
And we have a an that can't beat teams who score more than 20 points.

We only win games when our team plays at 200 percent. When your team can only won with heart and rarely wins on talent, that's a reflection on the gm who is responsible for personnel decisions.

Red Beans
11-23-2011, 09:03 AM
Chan Gailey.

We would be far better off with that guy coaching this team. At any position.

Plus, we didn't even try to hire an OC this past offseason. Haley didn't even practice due diligence. Muir is a farce of a hire.

Please... Are you serious? He's marginally better than Muir. I'm not saying the Muir deal wasn't BS, but to say Gailey is a quality OC is abusrd. He's a middle of the road NFL retread.

Look at the numbers - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GailCh0.htm

His offenses haven't been worth a shit since the end of the 90's. He's a below average OC at best...

The fact that he was on staff when Haley got here is the problem...

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 09:06 AM
Chan Gailey.

We would be far better off with that guy coaching this team. At any position.

Plus, we didn't even try to hire an OC this past offseason. Haley didn't even practice due diligence. Muir is a farce of a hire.

Gailey is a great offensive mind. Little evidence that he's great at leading a team. People forget that managing players and the team is the most critical function of a head coach. John harbaugh and Mike McCarthy arent the brightest playcallers in football. But they are exceptional at managing their teams.

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 09:06 AM
His offenses haven't been worth a shit since the end of the 90's. He's a below average OC at best...



He has the Bills 10th in the league in points, and the Cowboys were 9th and 11th in the league in points. He took a shit sandwich and made it palatable in KC in the last half of 2008.

Do I need to bring up:

His 8th ranked Miami offense?

His 11th and 7th ranked Steelers offenses?

Chan Gailey and Bill Muir are not on the same planet in terms of coaching ability.

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 09:07 AM
Bailey is a great offensive mind. Little evidence that he's great at leading a team.

I didn't say he should be HC, just that he could have been OC here and would have easily been a better HC than Haley.

Red Beans
11-23-2011, 09:12 AM
He has the Bills 10th in the league in points, and the Cowboys were 9th and 11th in the league in points. He took a shit sandwich and made it palatable in KC in the last half of 2008.

Do I need to bring up:

His 8th ranked Miami offense?

His 11th and 7th ranked Steelers offenses?

Chan Gailey and Bill Muir are not on the same planet in terms of coaching ability.

He has the Bills 10th in the league as head coach, with 6 games left in the season, it'll drop to 15 by the end.

All the other shit you bring up is a decade old. The NFL had past both Muir and Gailey by. Neither one is relevant.

To say that Gailey is that much better than Muir is like saying a blow job is from your sister is better than a blowjob from your mom. It may be slightly better for your psyche, but that doesn't make it any more right.

We'd be no better off with Chan than Muir right now.

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 09:14 AM
He has the Bills 10th in the league as head coach, with 6 games left in the season, it'll drop to 15 by the end.


LMAO

Now Gailey sucks because you have a crystal ball.


All the other shit you bring up is a decade old.

Really? 2008 is 10 years ago? Really?


We'd be no better off with Chan than Muir right now.

I agree, because Haley can't co-exist with anyone. That's why FIRE HIS ASS.

Red Beans
11-23-2011, 09:18 AM
LMAO

Now Gailey sucks because you have a crystal ball.



Really? 2008 is 10 years ago? Really?




I agree, because Haley can't co-exist with anyone. That's why FIRE HIS ASS.


No, he has always sucked. It's like prediciting your behavior on CP. No one needs a crystal ball to do that.

He was OC in Miami in 2001 with that 8th ranked O. In 2008 he and Herm were piloting the turdship at One Arrowhead Dr.

Count Zarth
11-23-2011, 09:19 AM
In 2008 he and Herm were piloting the turdship at One Arrowhead Dr.

And he got that turd Thigpen to lead an offense that scored 22 points a game.

He is not Bill Muir.

chiefzilla1501
11-23-2011, 09:22 AM
Chan Gailey.

We would be far better off with that guy coaching this team. At any position.

Plus, we didn't even try to hire an OC this past offseason. Haley didn't even practice due diligence. Muir is a farce of a hire.

I didn't say he should be HC, just that he could have been OC here and would have easily been a better HC than Haley.

I think a head coach should have some say in what system he runs. The front office keeps forcing their guys onto him. And then we blame Haley because they don't get along.